0:08

Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your

0:12

sanctuary for bold conversations that spark change. I'm

0:15

Joanne Lockwood, your guide on this journey of exploration into

0:19

the heart of inclusion, belonging, and societal

0:23

transformation. Ever wondered what it truly takes to create

0:26

a world where everyone not only belongs but thrives,

0:31

you're not alone. Join me as we uncover the

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unseen, challenge the status quo, and share

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stories that resonate deep within. Ready to dive

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in? Whether you're sipping your morning coffee or winding

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down after a long day, let's connect, reflect,

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and inspire action together. Don't forget,

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you can be part of the conversation too. Reach out to

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jo.lockwood@seachangehappen.co.uk

1:00

to share your insights or to join me on the show.

1:04

So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to

1:08

ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites.

1:18

Today is episode 140 with the

1:21

title, getting back up. And I have the

1:25

absolute honor and privilege to welcome Alex Williams.

1:29

Alex is a passionate speaker and mental health practitioner,

1:33

and is dedicated to helping people rise after life's

1:37

toughest knocks. When asked Alex to describe his

1:40

superpower, he says it is creating empowering

1:44

environments that inspire, transform with

1:48

self discovery and resilience. Hello, Alex.

1:52

Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me on today. My pleasure.

1:56

I can't remember if we've ever actually met in person, but we've certainly seen each

1:59

other online a lot through the Professional Speaking Association and other

2:03

mutual friends. Yeah. I I think last time I saw you was at breakfast at

2:07

the last not last PSA conference the year before.

2:11

But I did my usual thing where I feel awkward, and then I say hello

2:14

and then disappears, hide in the background. Yeah. Well, we've met then.

2:18

Yeah. Yes. That's it. Well, I've been really keen to to find out more about

2:21

your story because I as I say, I do follow you on LinkedIn and see

2:23

some of the post you're doing. Yeah. So, Alex, getting back up, where

2:27

did that come from? Well, I've been working in the mental health space

2:31

for 20 years now. And along with my own

2:35

personal story, kind of found that

2:39

people don't really know

2:42

the key ingredients to recovering from the setbacks that knock us down in

2:46

life. Now, obviously, trying to explain what I do as a

2:50

job day to day, you tell anyone what mental health practitioners do. It's kinda hard,

2:53

but, essentially, it came to that thing of, well, really, I'm helping people to recover

2:56

from those setbacks they face. But it really became a massive passion of mine

3:00

to really kind kind of get to those core ingredients so I can so when

3:03

I'm working with people, rather than saying, oh, you should try this modality, you should

3:07

try this thing, or try that, Kinda really focus on the the basics

3:11

so we can get a real solid foundation so people can then have something to

3:14

work from, and then they can kind of navigate to a a

3:18

path that's right for them to help them work towards and achieve whatever they

3:22

want to in life. When you use the phrase mental health, it it conjures

3:25

up stigma or failure or all

3:29

these words of negativity. But we all have mental

3:33

health. It just has different attributes

3:36

depending on it's and it's not linear either, is it? No. No. It's I

3:40

mean, it's it's on a spectrum, really. It's, you know, there's a we all have

3:44

mental health, and although there's some maybe issues that

3:48

present come with referring to everything under the mental health or

3:52

emotional health umbrella, it's important that we realize that we're all susceptible

3:55

to struggling at times. I don't really like the term mental health,

3:59

I'm gonna be honest, because I think that makes people think in isolation that

4:03

it's just something wrong with their brains, for example, when actually

4:07

we're all one be being, aren't we? We we have physical

4:10

our physical body, our emotions, our mind. It's all connected. So I kind

4:14

of I use the word mental health because that's what everyone knows, but

4:18

I think I try encourage people to think as a as a whole, you know,

4:21

and with with the communities around us in fact because that's essentially

4:25

probably the biggest impact on our mental health usually.

4:29

Yeah. I I went through this with my, mother-in-law a couple of years

4:32

ago. She's passed away since, but she was in hospital.

4:36

And the hospital seemed so focused on her physical health,

4:40

but she was struggling with her mental health, around early

4:44

onset dementia, around anxiety, around just being

4:48

uncomfortable in in the environment. They they weren't treating

4:52

her holistically. So medical professions are so

4:55

busy trying to put a sticky plaster on something and not actually get into

4:59

people's heads. Are they? Yeah. Yeah. You're a 100% right. It's

5:03

it's I think when we look at the system and how it works, I mean,

5:06

it is still you know, NHS in this country, for example, it was

5:10

designed to treat acute problems, not really complex

5:13

chronic issues such as the one you described. And so, therefore,

5:17

if it's not their problems, like, oh, it must be someone else's problem as

5:21

opposed to actually, like, maybe we should all communicate and recognize that, actually,

5:24

yes, what you just described is gonna make you struggle mentally and emotionally,

5:28

you know, and, yeah, you know, that's gonna be impacting you and that in turn,

5:31

it's gonna impact your physical health or vice versa.

5:35

So it's a big issue I encounter because I often banging my head against brick

5:38

walls. I'm saying, oh, we need to why don't we communicate and tackle this

5:42

together? Or, actually, we also need to you know, if someone's comes to me and

5:45

they've got no mood, but they've got chronic pain, for example, then it's like, why

5:49

aren't why aren't we addressing that chronic pain as opposed to just thinking it's all

5:53

in their head, which is often what people will often come to be saying they've

5:57

been told. So it's a frustration of mine, I mean. When we live in a

6:01

well, the modern world is 24 by 7.

6:05

We're connected. We're addicted to our phones. We're feeding ourselves with

6:08

social media. News is is polarizing us

6:12

with negative stories and causing us to react to

6:16

stuff and get emotionally engaged in things that we you know,

6:19

20, 30 years ago, we would have been almost blissfully unaware of because the

6:23

emotional engagement wasn't there. It's no wonder we're we're being

6:27

pulled from emotion to emotion to to different things

6:30

because there's so much going on in the world now, isn't it? Yeah. Lots of,

6:35

it's when I'm often talking about with the clients I work with. It's like

6:38

how I don't think we realize as a society is

6:42

how we're so busy because we're plugged into all these things with

6:46

all these stresses coming at us, stresses like you've already said that we wouldn't have

6:50

been aware of. I mean, I wasn't aware of when I was a kid, like,

6:52

what people the other city away from me or town were

6:56

doing or the other village were doing, let alone what people are doing around the

6:59

world and what was going on. Of course, you watch the news and see what's

7:02

going on, but now we've got so many things going on, so many so

7:06

many bad things that we see that can upset us, but also so many people

7:08

to compare ourselves to that kind of it can make us it's

7:12

so easy to become susceptible to struggling with our emotions mentally because

7:16

we're looking at everyone thinking, why why aren't I achieving

7:20

that? Or that's awful. I can't believe that's happening. When reality is we don't really

7:23

have any impact over that stuff. We only have impact over ourselves and what we

7:27

choose to do to that to day to day. But it can be easy to

7:30

forget that when everything's going on around us, and that's all we're watching. Yeah. I

7:33

mean, I I've I've done some TV interviews and things in the past,

7:37

and one of the one of the key anchor questions is, how are you feeling?

7:41

How does that make you feel? How how are you on that? You you win

7:43

an Olympic medal. The first thing to do is stick a mic in your face

7:46

is, how do you feel about that? So we're we're thriving on

7:49

someone else's energy and feelings, aren't we? We're trying to build this

7:53

empathy. Yeah. And, of course, we're absorbing that. And if I

7:57

don't feel great, this person's gonna make me feel worse.

8:01

Yeah. Yeah. And I you know, it's a problem because

8:04

of, like, I think when you're when you're looking at some when you're

8:09

looking at people who have success, for example, for example, it can often make us

8:12

look at our lives, can't it, if you're not in a good spot. And, you

8:15

know, comparison is not the worst thing in the world. Like, it's good to have

8:18

role models and ask yourselves, how can I be like or achieve that

8:22

person, be achieved what that person's achieved, that sort of stuff? But if we're not

8:25

in a good spot, and many people aren't, most people I would say

8:29

have terrible relationships with themselves even though on the surface on social media, they act

8:33

like everything's, you know, got everything together. But when we're doing that, it can often

8:37

just make ourselves feel worse. You know? Seeing people achieve success all the

8:41

time, whatever that looks whatever that is can just make us feel awful and

8:44

especially if we're in a bad spot. But also, I think

8:48

on the flip side, I would say that even though it's good to be vulnerable

8:51

and share our worst experiences,

8:55

Sometimes we can also get attached to that and

8:59

almost feel like we, you know, we watch content that kind

9:03

of reaffirms what we're experiencing, but equally,

9:07

that validation can keep us stuck as well. So it's kind of I

9:10

find with that stuff, it's kind of like, we need a happy medium, really. We

9:14

need to, yes, look at people who are gonna push us out of our comfort

9:16

zone even though I hate to say an access such a cliche term, but I'm

9:19

gonna say it anyway. But we also want people to make us realize that actually

9:23

where we are, we're not alone. We're not isolated in that. We're

9:27

not this isn't where we're gonna be. This is where it's okay to feel how

9:30

we do, but so but we don't wanna stay there. So it's kind of like,

9:34

how do we find that happy medium? I'm still I'm still struggling with

9:38

that one myself just to be real. It's like, who do I follow that makes

9:40

you feel like I'm pushing myself a little bit, but also not too far

9:44

where I'm like, oh god. This is just I can't take this. That's where the

9:47

word authenticity comes in. It's you want you want to

9:51

associate yourself with people who are real and succeeding,

9:55

not faking it, their success, or faking their mental

9:59

health, or faking their what they're achieving. Because I'm going through a a weight loss

10:03

journey at the moment, and I'm a member of some of these, Facebook support

10:06

groups. And clearly, some people are making stuff

10:10

up. Some people are trolling people or throwing comments in

10:13

there. And you get people if yourself go, I'm a failure. I can't do what

10:17

everyone else is doing. I I need to quit. I need to get I feel

10:20

like a cream cake because I I'm just feeling so depressed myself because

10:23

everybody else in the world is better than me. So you gotta try and create

10:27

the supportive environment with authentic people who create realistic

10:30

achievables, not this magical I can do it,

10:34

you can do it stuff that people pump out all the time. It's a problem

10:37

though what you've you said there because I think society,

10:42

you know, when it comes to selling and the, say, the well-being

10:46

mental health, emotional health space Nowadays,

10:50

because of social media, you know, the people are trying to sell you this idea

10:53

of healing recovery and stuff, and I've touched

10:57

on this before, but no one wants likes uncertainty

11:01

really. We like a little bit, but we don't like uncertainty. So when we're buying

11:04

a product, we don't want to be told this might work.

11:08

We want to be told this will work. This is definitely going

11:12

to heal my trauma. And I think that's what encourages,

11:15

especially in that space or, you know, and in this the

11:19

space I work in is people to go on and book on on t on

11:22

social media and say, I can heal this. I can hear that because they know

11:25

that will get people to buy the stuff even if it doesn't work. But it

11:28

it's not authentic. Like you said, it's like it's it's it's that illusion.

11:32

You're you're you're just kidding people. And when when you talk about

11:35

that journey then, then people want to be seen to be successful. They want to

11:39

be seen to be smashing their goals, because to

11:43

not do that makes them feel like the person the the person who's not already

11:47

not good enough, that just reinforms that. But, actually, I think what you've touched upon

11:50

there and that authenticity is actually and it's something I always try to do with

11:53

everyone is I try and make them realize that there's most people are bullshitting you

11:57

in society. Everyone's struggling to an extent. Yes. There's periods where you have good

12:01

moments. There's periods with bad people, but no one's doing as well as they are

12:04

making out their doing. I don't believe it anyway. I don't believe any influence in

12:07

social media or anyone out is doing as well as they're doing. So it's really

12:11

important when I'm when you're viewing that to go actually, is this real or

12:15

is this just a glimpse of what they're showing or actually what they're trying to

12:18

make me believe? I mean, of course, I'm sure there are people out there who

12:22

are really successful and doing amazing things, but in your example, it's like important. I

12:25

just find, like, taking with a pinch of salt, don't compare yourself to that

12:29

person who's supposedly getting top marks and

12:33

smashing their weight loss journey. Just take it back and go focus on what

12:37

you're doing. And, yeah, just again, take it just with a pinch of salt what

12:40

you're seeing out there. It's, but it's much easier than said than done

12:44

because we live in a world where we're we're meant to be showing our successes,

12:47

aren't we? You know, no matter how much people are vulnerable, how

12:51

vulnerable are we prepared to be in reality. Let's say, look

12:55

in business in the business gurus, how honest are they when they have

12:58

a bad period? They're probably sharing you, like, a a struggle with

13:02

their mental health, but are they showing you that actually, god, I've lost a load

13:06

of money this month for all that sort of stuff. Are people really that vulnerable?

13:10

I don't know. Probably not. It's like LinkedIn experts and people who tell

13:14

you talk about marketing and business development and growth. Yeah. They've only got a

13:17

1,000 followers. You think, really? How long have you been at this?

13:21

But, yeah, I always think it's it's a bit like the

13:25

National Lottery. Do I seriously believe I'm gonna win a

13:28

157,000,000 on the EuroMillions on Friday? No.

13:33

But what I'm doing by buying a ticket is I'm buying

13:36

hope. Yes. I'm not buying reality. I'm buying a

13:40

dream. I'm buying hope. A lot of these people who are selling you stuff are

13:44

selling dreams and selling hope. And every so often, you'll

13:48

get the winners of with a massive check. They're on telly, and they're there's

13:51

champagne flowing. And you go, oh, that's what I'm dreaming of. That's my

13:55

hope. But I don't seriously believe I'll ever win the lottery or

13:59

anything more than 3 quid or whatever you win on a regular basis. If

14:03

I don't buy a ticket, I hope I haven't got hope. I never

14:06

win. So you have to be you have to be in it to have hope.

14:09

I think what people get buy into is is the thought of hope,

14:13

and that's why we gotta we gotta respect people. Because if we dash

14:17

their hope, we're inauthentic. What we do is we end up

14:20

destroying a belief and that that hope they had and that that

14:24

their trust will be will be harder to give next time. Yeah. Yeah.

14:28

And hope's so important. I think it's it's probably you

14:31

got I mean, the people who struggle the most with the clients

14:35

I struggle with are kind of and they're usually because of what they've experienced growing

14:38

up. They've lost that kind of all sense of hope. Almost their identity is almost

14:42

wrapped around this idea that they will never be able to achieve or

14:46

be anything meaningful, you know, so they

14:50

literally all hope's gone. That's not necessarily their fault. It is

14:54

their responsibility to challenge, with the support of

14:57

people around them, but, yeah, hope is so important. And I like the

15:01

idea with the lottery because that kind of made me feel like, well, yes,

15:05

none not many of us are gonna win the lottery, but maybe it's not about

15:09

the destination of winning the lottery, it's about if I keep buying a

15:13

ticket, which could be representation of the things I do every day to look after

15:16

myself, even though I might win not win the lottery, I'm

15:20

likely to feel better. Maybe the maybe the lottery is a good so if I

15:24

kept buying tickets and kept losing, I think, well, I've just wasted all this money,

15:26

but you know what I mean? I'm kind of getting that, like, you you have to keep buying a ticket to be in it. So that's that hope of maybe

15:31

getting there. And then and actually maybe the idea is

15:34

actually, eventually, you get to buy so many tickets. You go, actually, I don't need

15:38

to win the lottery. I'm actually okay, which is usually what happens, isn't it, with

15:41

the lottery? So Yeah. But the lottery is

15:45

very good. Yeah. Getting in your head because every month or so, you'll win a

15:49

tenner. And then maybe you'll win 50 quid. So that

15:52

that tops your hope up. You got a lot of I've won something, like the

15:56

endorphins. I feel good about myself. Yeah. We let's go let's go buy a takeaway

15:59

with the tenner we just won. So it says some micro validations,

16:03

those micro rewards Yeah. Keep you in the game.

16:07

I think I think what you're trying to tell me is your mental health needs

16:10

those validations Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That are achievable

16:14

and frequent enough that you maintain the

16:18

hope. Exactly. And I think this is the problem. I always say

16:22

to people that our emotions tend to follow

16:26

our actions. So everyone says, I will I will do this when I feel

16:29

better or do that when I feel better. And but I always kind

16:33

of describe it like if you can imagine an airplane in the sky. Never seen

16:36

an airplane in the sky, it's that big cloud that comes behind it. Now

16:40

the airplane is like your actions, you doing the things, but your

16:44

emotions are following behind, And I always say that, you know, if

16:47

you keep doing the right things, if you do the right

16:51

actions over time, eventually, you will start to

16:55

feel better. Now people don't like to hear that because it's hard

16:58

because we you know, as much as I'm not gonna I don't want people

17:02

to mistake me saying, like, oh, exercise in sleep, spending

17:06

time with good people, doing things you enjoy is the answer to

17:09

healing your trauma. But by doing that, you will create a

17:13

state a kind of a the foundations beneath you

17:17

that enable you to then process some of that trauma and deal with it in

17:21

a best way. It's kinda like the foundations, like the reco it's it's like

17:24

a safety blanket. You know, when you it was or one of those crash mats

17:28

or something you see that start stomp and land. When life inevitably smacks you

17:31

in the face and knocks you over, which it will do, doing those right thing

17:35

kind of protects you a bit more from hitting rock bottom.

17:39

So but, you know, it's but we have to do those things to to get

17:42

to that point first. It's not like, oh, I'm gonna make a magic wand and

17:45

you're just gonna feel better. It's like, no. It's what you repeatedly do every

17:49

day or a frequency that works for you that generally

17:53

has far has a big say in how you're gonna feel and how how you

17:57

feel about yourself moving forward. And that's the hardest bit because when

18:00

you've really been through when you've really been through a hard time and you've had

18:04

people tell you you're worthless, you've earned that you're

18:08

no good, and you've been in environments that have made you feel small and lose

18:11

that connection with yourself, then it can be really hard to feel like you have

18:14

that power to do that sort of stuff. I mean, we whether you

18:18

subscribe to Maslow's hierarchy of needs or not, but we we there are a lot

18:22

of people who are if you're if you're worried about where your next meal's coming

18:26

from, you're worried about what's on a roof over your head, you're worried about the

18:29

short term stuff, whether you've got enough money to put in the meeting tonight,

18:33

you haven't got time to think about relationships and

18:36

good times and relaxing and going for a walk and chilling in the

18:40

sun. You're so focused on now.

18:43

Yeah. It's like it's like we we're all designed to cope with so

18:47

much stress. And when we're and, you know, when

18:50

we've exposed to too much stress over a period of time, that's when mental, emotional

18:54

health challenges come in. Now one thing I don't think we acknowledge as a

18:57

society is much is is like what you said, like the Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

19:01

Like, we say to, you know, people for instance, pet regards

19:05

parenting. Right? We know that what's really good for parenting is people

19:08

being present and meeting the needs of their children in that moment as best they

19:12

can. You know? But if you're a parent

19:16

who, yeah, is struggling to pay your bills, is is your

19:19

insecure, accommodation, so, you know,

19:23

you you it could be up you could be up for eviction for whatever reason.

19:27

Maybe you've experienced some trauma, abuse, you're in a dysfunctional family, maybe

19:31

there's an addiction in there. That's a whole lot of stress that is affecting your

19:34

ability to be present. So literally,

19:38

if they didn't have those things or you had a less of those things, you'd

19:42

have more time and energy and focus, more capacity to work on, you

19:45

know, yourself. But we don't really talk about that enough. I think we there's so

19:49

much emphasis, and I'm a big believer in personal responsibility. But how

19:52

much effort and energy do you have to focus on these things you

19:56

need to change when you've got so many things out of your

20:00

control or that feel out of your control that are affecting your ability to be

20:03

present in that moment? It's it's, you know, it's real merely, I would

20:07

say most mental, emotional health problems are social problems

20:11

in the sense that, like, if our needs are being met

20:15

physically and emotionally, then it makes it really hard to work on those

20:19

things we need to work on. Yeah. We know the physical exercise. We also know

20:23

that human love, human relationships

20:26

also in there. And I've I've realized that some of it's

20:30

around touch. So I know that if I hug

20:34

somebody or I hold someone's hand, I feel them. I

20:37

can feel this mutual energy transfer Yeah. Is more than 1 plus

20:41

1. It's it's 1 plus 1 equals 5. It's it's it's suddenly you feel this

20:45

emotional lift just by having that human contact. And the

20:49

power of that energy transfer is completely underrated.

20:53

And that's why I think when you're lonely or alone or retracting

20:56

into yourself, you you miss that human connection. Well,

21:00

I yeah. I mean, I would say everyone I work with, but also from my

21:04

own experience, I think, whether it's the touch

21:07

or just that kind of validation, acknowledgement that you exist

21:12

as you are as a person, regardless of who you're trying

21:16

to be to fit in, I think when we don't have that, that's kind

21:20

of that's what makes us struggle. If we don't feel like we can be ourselves

21:23

and express how we really feel and do the things we want to in life,

21:26

and if we have to feel like we could constantly at the high parts and

21:29

wear masks in a sense of showing up in different ways to appease everyone

21:33

else, eventually, you will get to a point where we're like, what the hell is

21:36

going on here? Like, I'm so miserable. I'm struggling. I'm anxious. You know?

21:40

That's what ends up happening to us. And I think it all comes back

21:44

to that, yeah, that environment, that connection, that that

21:47

touch, let's just say, whether it's physical or emotional, where we have people around

21:51

us who just go, I see you, who you are, and I love you

21:55

for who you are. I may not love some of the things you do, but

21:58

I'm gonna accept that and, you know, I'm gonna I just want you to be

22:01

you, and I think it's so important. And I know that for me, not necessarily

22:05

what I the the significant individual traumatic events they weren't they

22:08

weren't the big things, even though they're the Hollywood things when it comes to telling

22:11

my story, it was actually that lack of peep the main people in my life

22:15

saying, what do you need, Alex? I'm here for you. I love you

22:19

for who you are. That's what caused most of my struggle as I grew up.

22:23

And now you mentioned do do you wanna dive into a bit of your

22:27

own history and mental health journey? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Sure. I mean, how much

22:31

start. Yeah. I mean, okay. Let's start from the beginning. I was

22:35

born into a normal well, what I would consider my mum and dad

22:38

were married, dad was a lawyer, solicitor, doing really well work in

22:42

London, my mum was a general nurse, but my first real

22:46

memory was them breaking up. My dad had an affair,

22:50

My mom rightly was like, nah. I'm out. This this goes. So they

22:53

separate us around 3 or 4. Now

22:58

my mom would then

23:01

understand me so, which often happens with anyone who's had their hearts broken in such

23:05

a way kind of I got the impression that she just kind of lost a

23:08

lot of confidence, self worth, self esteem, and ended up essentially with someone who

23:12

was abusive. She ended up getting married to this person.

23:16

My I used to basically live with my mom, see my dad every 2 weeks.

23:20

But during the time living with my mom, I can remember him beating up his

23:23

stepchildren, kind of making threats to harm me. My

23:27

mom would say, like, no. I don't want you touching my kids, and she kind

23:30

of had a handle on that, but he never did touch us. But there was

23:34

that constant fear, you know, I was constant when I was there. I'd be terrified.

23:38

Go to my dad's every other weekend and at the best time, he would spoil

23:40

me, you know, take me for pizzas, buy me toys, all that sort of stuff.

23:44

So I was, like, idolizing my dad. Life at home was

23:47

terrible with my mom, and that was kind of my life

23:51

then. I mean, we did kind of escape my abusive stepdad for

23:55

a while and we stayed with my grandparents briefly, But

23:59

he's the store cousin. I think he kinda push pressured my mom and probably said

24:02

all the things that most people do when they want someone back, that they're changed

24:05

and all that. But anyway, we went back. I was around 8

24:09

years at the time, and one night

24:13

in sleeping in my sister's room because I was terrified to sleep in my own

24:17

room, this policeman burst into my room. It's

24:20

about 3 in the morning, and I was like, what the hell is going on

24:23

here? Took got me out, got us out of a room, took me

24:27

downstairs, put me on those big, you know, the meat wagons, the big vans you

24:30

see on a Saturday night in town and drove me to the local police station.

24:34

I was with my sister. I was with my step siblings at the time.

24:37

Didn't know what's going on. I just thought, police, they put

24:41

bad people in prison. Maybe I've done something naughty.

24:45

Now I was a little shit, my little kid, like, I think

24:49

given in hindsight reflecting on what was happening in my

24:52

home life at the time, it kinda makes sense. But, yeah, they

24:56

sat me down with my sister at the time, and the

25:00

policeman said, sorry, but your mum is

25:04

dead. And in the room next to me, it transpired that my stepdad

25:08

had killed my mum. Now that's the the big the

25:11

big event that happened. It was awful. Obviously,

25:15

like, straight away, I was, like, distressed. It was

25:18

all over the place as you expect an 8 year old boy to be, and

25:22

I can remember immediately well, not in hindsight, I can remember kind of thinking I'm

25:26

a damaged. I'm damaged. What I'm gonna hope to achieve? But that wasn't really where

25:29

the big damage came from because it was then when I went my dad then

25:32

took on responsibility, and what happened over the

25:36

those years, how I was treated in response to that even though I think

25:40

he did his best to an extent, his idea of love

25:43

was let's just provide money. You know, it's like kind of

25:47

material stuff. Big house that grew up in this massive estate,

25:51

like, had a football pitch in the garden, vineyard suits, and outsiders, it's

25:55

like, oh, god. You've got everything you need. God. Yeah. Okay. Your mom's dead, but

25:58

blah blah blah. But the story I was constantly fed

26:02

during that time, regardless of what everyone was seeing, was like, you just need to

26:05

get over your mom, you know. You know, you'd be grateful for what you do

26:08

have. I remember being told like, oh, most dads would put their children in an

26:11

orphanage. So over those next few years, I

26:15

kind of started to continue to see myself as the problem. I believe

26:19

that how I felt, my needs, they weren't important, and I changed who I

26:23

was to keep my dad happy, keep other people happy. And I kind of so

26:26

I never really knew who I was. And that kind of just continued throughout life.

26:30

I went through high school. I didn't know what

26:34

I wanna do subject wise. I kinda was always picking what other

26:38

people wanted. I got out of 6th form,

26:42

took some dead end jobs, but I did go to train to become a mental

26:45

health nurse. Nothing inspirational about this, by the

26:48

way. They paid me to do it, and I had nothing else to lose. But

26:51

it turned out to be one of the greatest things I ever did because it

26:54

got me hit, and I loved it. But while that

26:58

was all going on, I kind of I still I just had this

27:02

feeling that I just wasn't good enough. I still had to keep everyone else around

27:06

me happy. And every time I failed at that, instead of thinking maybe I was

27:09

in the wrong environment or with the wrong people, I continued to think I was

27:12

the problem and I lowered my expectations and what I could possibly achieve or

27:16

would hope to get from life. So kind of my mentality around them was like,

27:20

if I just hold this steady job, get a roof over my head, and just

27:24

find a partner who would, like, put up with me, then I would have finally

27:28

made it. I'll be something. And life kind of continued on

27:32

that trajectory for a while, but it wasn't

27:35

till I was about 34. So I think I've been qualified 10

27:39

years at this point in the mental health game. I've kinda I

27:43

I felt like I was nearly there. I I owned a house. I was

27:47

engaged. I was like, yeah. You know, I'm finally getting out. I'm

27:50

finally becoming something that's important. But then

27:54

the relationship ended, the mortgage went, and I was kind

27:58

of faced. I just was in this situation. It was like, well, I've

28:02

lost my mom. I've got dad too. I have to be a certain way to

28:05

get his approval. I haven't got a relationship. I haven't got a house. I'm

28:09

in my mid thirties. I feel like I just can't be bothered to

28:13

do this anymore. That was when I was, like, making plans to

28:17

end my own life. Now at the time, I remember in a way, it

28:20

was like it made me realize that at

28:24

the point, I was like, I've never really looked at my own stuff. I could

28:28

spend so much of my life going through, I'm not as bad as the people

28:31

I'm working with in the mental health space. You know, I'm seeing people with

28:35

you know, I don't really like believe like diagnosing people

28:39

and which would people have got schizophrenia, for example, bipolar, you know,

28:42

personality disorders, people who were literally, they're so unwell because of what they've been

28:46

through or what the symptoms they're experiencing. I was like, I'm not like

28:50

you, so I must be okay. But I realized

28:54

that kind of constant telling myself I must be okay

28:58

when really deep down I'm not, kind of just all just spilled all over

29:01

the place when I lost everything that I thought I could possibly be.

29:05

But it was, well, if it to be honest, if it wasn't

29:09

for my dog and feeling the need and the worry to be

29:13

there for him, I think I wouldn't be here today. Literally, I was like, who's

29:16

gonna look after him if I'm not here? He was probably the only thing that

29:19

kept me going. But it was around that time I read Victor Frankl's

29:23

man search a meaning book purely because I was in this

29:26

at in in the work I was doing. I was looking at it, and I

29:29

thought, oh, this looks like an interesting story. And it was his

29:33

story that kind of made me and there was this line that everything can

29:36

happen to you. Everything can be taken from you, sorry,

29:40

except your ability to choose how you respond, your ability to choose

29:44

your own way. And as I

29:48

read those words, it was like, bloody hell, you

29:51

know, all my life, I've given up my power to choose.

29:56

Even though I have in a way been choosing, I've been just been choosing what

29:58

other people expect of me or other choosing things that other people want

30:02

to meet. I've never really chosen what I want. And then it was like, oh,

30:05

what would my life like if I actually decided to choose what

30:09

I would do was doing. Now it doesn't mean I completely erase everything that I've

30:13

ever been through, but it was like, well, I've always had this burning desire,

30:17

like, what if we spoke about mental health in in a way of, like,

30:21

talking about the things that knock us down, you know, that that

30:25

that we struggle with, like failure, heartbreak, loneliness, stress,

30:28

and spoke gave people the skills to manage them so they recover

30:32

from these setbacks. How would that impact people's mental health?

30:36

And I thought it'd have a massive impact. So it just start me on the

30:38

trajectory of talking about that sort of stuff. Now I never, I just

30:42

wanna point out, you know, I just mentioned my story. I never had any attention

30:45

to talk about what I've been through, but people said to me in the PSA,

30:49

which we were we're both part of, it was like, what's your story, Alex? And

30:52

I was like, well, I went through this, this, this, and that. And they were

30:55

like, you should talk about that. And why I probably

30:59

needed that because it made me actually again focus on look at that stuff and

31:02

unpick it, and it really helped me recover. But, you know, it kind of led me to this point here where I am

31:09

now where I'm still doing the work with people and teachers, talking about failure,

31:12

heartbreak, loneliness, and just sitting with people in all their discomfort and just

31:16

validating their experiences and helping them build their relationship themselves, taking

31:19

responsibility, be really patient on the journey. But also talking

31:23

about my own story kind of I think it was good because it made me

31:27

stop being the person who was held the answers to everyone else's

31:30

problems and made me realize that, actually, I'm just like all of you.

31:35

Yes. We work different stories, but I'm just like you because I can also see

31:37

it from their perspective. And it's really added another foundation to the work I

31:41

do because even though I don't define myself as a

31:44

victim, because I know I have been victimized.

31:48

And actually being open about that and how that's impacted me has really helped me

31:51

move forward and move the work I do in create meant the

31:55

work I do made it much, much more powerful for those I work with. I'm

31:59

a bit stunned to silence because I I I had never

32:02

heard your story before. So when you drop that bombshell about

32:06

your mum was killed by your by your stepdad, that came as a

32:10

complete surprise to me. So anyone who's listening, heard that for the first time in

32:14

the way you did. So, yeah, it's extremely

32:19

traumatic to listen to, and I can I I can't

32:22

imagine? All all I could do is is is guess that,

32:27

at that time of your life, your whole world became disorientated. It's

32:30

like being being in a three-dimensional gimbal where you just

32:34

you got no up, no down, no left, no right, no stability, got

32:38

no hook to hold on to at that point, have you? The person that was

32:41

always there for you, your mom, the person whether you loved or hated or

32:45

what you're going through, there was always that stability in your life to

32:49

suddenly find that you had lack of stability. Your home

32:53

environment had now crumbled. Your your father was a

32:56

party dad looking after you and taking giving you giving

33:00

you McDonald's and taking you on on fast adrenaline rides and and being a being

33:04

a party dad. So you lost that structure in your life

33:08

all of a sudden, didn't you? Yeah. And I think it's

33:12

at the time, I think we don't, you know, what we go through when

33:15

when in those first probably 6, 7, 8, 9 years,

33:19

we're all all of life, but especially those first those early years, you know,

33:23

We're not able, young people, to recognize our

33:27

brains just aren't evolved to recognize that, oh, that awful thing that happened

33:31

is just an awful thing that happened that I've now got to navigate. It's usually

33:34

we believe it. It's because of us or that, therefore, there's some

33:37

problem with us because these things happen. And, obviously,

33:41

it was a complete shock. I have to admit that partly the time was like,

33:45

god, you know, I get to live with my dad now. And like I

33:48

said, the part of your dad, I love the way you explain it because I've

33:51

never heard it said like that. But, like, it made me say, oh, is this

33:54

gonna be exciting? Even though I was devastated, it's like, what's this gonna be like?

33:58

But, yeah, I'm I'm the thing was it's just my world crumbled. I was like,

34:02

my mom isn't there, that stability. All the things I probably took for granted because

34:05

you don't appreciate them when you're that age d. You don't appreciate that you your

34:09

mom's always there. She puts dinner on the table. She cleans your clothes. She tidies

34:12

your room. She picks you up from school. You just take that for granted. You

34:15

just want the the high adrenaline sort of stuff, but

34:20

losing that was massive. But, again, it was just

34:23

like, I know no one who has lost their mom in

34:27

such circumstances. Def and I've my immediate thing was there must be something

34:31

wrong with me now. What can I possibly hope to

34:34

achieve having lost a mum? I am

34:38

you know, what was on the TV at the time? And then Biker Grove or

34:41

something like that. Grange chill and, like, look at those kids, you know, who've been

34:45

for it and figured, that's me now. I'm destined to

34:48

be nothing. It was like all it was always

34:52

like what I obviously, most of my ambition, hopes, dreams,

34:56

aspirations are gone because I merely thought I was there's something wrong

34:59

with me now, And I that's why I'm so keen with the work

35:03

I do. It's like when things go wrong, separating who they

35:07

are from the actual problem. You know, the problem's the problem, you're not the problem,

35:10

even though, yes, okay, we may do things that contribute to our problems. It's really

35:14

important you separate who you are as a person from what you're experiencing. Because as

35:18

soon as you make about what you're experiencing about you, then

35:22

it's like it's almost like not game over, but it's like that's gonna

35:25

that's gonna hit you hit you harder than you can

35:29

ever imagine. You know, you're giving yourself a hard time for having a hard

35:33

time, which doesn't help anyone. It's like you're just having a hard time, but as

35:36

soon as you make it about you, it's like, oh my god. I'm the problem

35:38

here. And that's exactly what happened to me. But I wasn't aware of it at

35:41

the time because I paid. But in hindsight, that was the kind

35:44

of messaging I was kind of telling myself, and because I was also being

35:48

told in that recovery process that I just need to get on with it, that

35:52

I need to be grateful, it was almost like, well, what I feel and what

35:55

I'm experiencing, all that pain is just it's not important then. Again,

35:59

I'm the problem here. How am I feeling to the problem? I need to shut

36:02

them down and hide and be who these people around me need me to be

36:06

to keep me happy. But, yeah, losing my mum, it was I mean, I'm not

36:09

saying my mum would have then become the best mum ever. Who knows? I sometimes

36:13

remind myself of that, but she was a good person. And I think losing her

36:17

just it just destroyed me. But I never really got to explore it until

36:20

Mommy's mom. Yeah. Mommy's mom is she doesn't

36:24

have to be the best person in the world. She just has to be your

36:26

mom. It's not there's no rules. There's no right way of being mom, is there?

36:29

And I as you're talking, I'm thinking about my my

36:33

mother-in-law. She passed away 2 2 years ago.

36:37

And Marie, my wife, often says the thing she misses most

36:41

is not being able to just phone her up and tell her what she's doing.

36:45

Just that this is what happened today type of stuff. And

36:48

it's that chitchat and the the fact

36:52

you'll never have that conversation is the the challenge.

36:56

Yeah. And I I feel it more now probably than I ever

37:00

did because having now I've got a 10 month old daughter, I can never

37:04

go, would you like to go spend time with your, you know,

37:08

would you like to speak to your your and that really that cuts me, you

37:11

know. It's because she will never be she wasn't there for the birth.

37:15

She wasn't there for so many things and also not have because I don't

37:19

have anything to do with my dad now. It's incredibly even though I'm in a

37:22

good spot and I've kind of come to terms that it's still

37:26

god, you know, you've got no one. Not no one, but like

37:30

the people 2 people who are supposed to be there.

37:34

It just yeah. It's hard. It's hard because I would nothing

37:38

nothing more, and this is probably the problem with Hollywood films and

37:42

growing up and watching those lovely Christmas times where you see everyone get

37:45

together and have a best time. It kind of when that stuff comes, it's

37:49

always a memory of what I don't have and what my daughter won't

37:53

necessarily have. But equally that acts as a motivator to

37:56

make sure, you know, the love I give for the people who are still in

38:00

my life and important to me, make sure I never take that for granted. Like,

38:04

you know, I literally I I would do anything to make sure my daughter

38:07

never feels what I felt, Hopefully, she will

38:11

have experience of rejection. Don't get me wrong, but like not from no in

38:15

those means, you know, like hopefully, you know, I can't control everything. I

38:18

could get hit by a bus tomorrow, but it really that could be essentially becomes

38:22

my purpose really, you know. It's like, this is my purpose. Like, how can I

38:25

be the best dad for my daughter? That's it. Now if

38:29

you ask me, like, every decision I make now is around that because of what

38:32

I went through. Yeah. And I yeah. My daughter's

38:36

in in her thirties now, and I have a completely different

38:40

relationship with her than when she was young. And

38:43

it's it's a very good adult relationship, and it's

38:47

just known we're there. Someone to have a chat with

38:51

and run things by. She's dinged to her car the other week and said, should

38:54

I tell the police? Shouldn't I tell the police? It's kind of like a sounding

38:57

board. I go, well, I can't I haven't got the right answer for you, but

39:00

if you tell the police, no one will ever come knocking on your door saying

39:03

you didn't. Well, how come

39:07

you're looking for us? Just knowing you got someone there, she knows that she's got

39:10

me there, and and my wife's is here, and

39:14

No matter what happens, there's there's people in her

39:18

life that she knows ultimately have always got her back. And my

39:22

mum's the same. I know my mum no matter how much, and not that

39:26

I rely on her at all, but I want her to be proud of me

39:28

still. I'm 60 years old nearly, and I still want my mum to be proud

39:31

of me. So it's it's important, isn't it, to have someone that you as

39:35

your barometer in life maybe. And I love the way you said that,

39:39

like, just to be there because I think that's what we want, isn't it? Like,

39:42

I think we all want someone in our lives who can just be there

39:45

for us when we're struggling, when we're happy, like, when we celebrate

39:49

our achievements or maybe just to redirect us if we're going

39:53

off the path a little bit. And in a way, that's probably my job. Like,

39:56

I I as I said to you, I most people I

39:59

see have come from families and the level of

40:03

dysfunction that I kind of described and touched upon in my own experience.

40:07

And they often say to me, I've got no one I can talk to about

40:11

this, but having someone like you where I can just offload all this and you're

40:14

gonna go hear that shit and not tell me I just need to get over

40:18

it. And you help make sense in the turn where I can actually help them

40:20

make sense of it and help them look after themselves is so so important. And

40:24

that's what I wanna be for my daughter, you know. You know, and and that

40:27

fits so, like, literally, it's weird because this year having

40:31

a daughter, and I'm not saying that everyone should go and have kids because there's

40:33

lots of people who shouldn't have kids as my job often tells me.

40:37

But, like, I realized from a a basic and emotional

40:41

needs standpoint that fulfills so many of my needs. You know, the,

40:45

you know, the the I get the the community, the connection, the

40:49

attention, the it gives me purpose. It gives me a sense of achievement, you

40:53

know. You've like, it's crazy how, like, get up and I'm the one who

40:56

gets someone that will go in the morning. And, like, when I go into the

41:00

room and get her up and she just she always smiles. I mean, she's at

41:02

that age where she is, and I'm sure when she's a teenager, it's gonna be

41:05

the opposite. She'll get out of my room, dad. But, you know, she's like smiling,

41:09

you know, that's like, oh my god. I'm just achieved something amazing. You know? And

41:12

it's just that little thing, and I and I think it's a society, because

41:16

we've moved towards this kind of very hyper individualistic

41:19

approach where we're almost told we don't need anyone else. How often do you see

41:22

that message? You don't need anyone else. You don't need anyone's approval. And I guess,

41:26

to an extent, some of that messaging is true, but we do need people. We

41:29

need community. We need thriving community. Community is probably the most important

41:33

thing. Like, I could tell you now those who do best in life are those

41:37

who have supportive environments around them, and we don't really

41:40

say that, do we? We've, like, famous people who've overcome stuff. We always hear

41:44

about the their mindset. You're like, no. Yes. That's important,

41:48

but it's like who was around you to help you instill that mindset? Those

41:52

moments where you were like, excuse my name, fuck this. I can't do this

41:55

anymore. Who was there who said come on, you can still do it? And we

41:59

don't talk about that. And that's kind of what I see my role is like,

42:02

because I always again, coming back to this mental, emotional health stuff

42:06

and getting back up, it's like, we all no one none we

42:10

never get as well as we as quickly as we like.

42:13

So it's important you have people around you to give you that nudge in the

42:16

right direction, support you, to keep you going, because it is like

42:20

what I'm doing is, like, kind of describing, like, the waves here with my hand

42:23

now. Yeah. It's like, that's the journey. Essentially. Don't

42:27

expect to, like, come see me and then tomorrow you'll feel better. It's like you

42:30

I know there's a dip coming, but I'm here to support you through that dip

42:34

to keep you so you can carry on moving forward. And I think that's

42:38

how I see my role in my door. That's how I see my role with

42:40

all the people I work with and generally anyone who needs my support.

42:45

So yeah. Yeah. I mean, we know that

42:49

behind every high achiever, successful person, we

42:52

know Paralympians, we know Olympians, medalists between

42:56

us. And every single one of those always credit their team,

43:00

the support of their family, people in their life. And even if, you know, even

43:03

if you don't have a a relationship

43:07

with people, you know, maybe you're rich and you pay people to look after you,

43:11

You don't do things alone. We all we all do the the 10%

43:15

of our life that we're good at, but we rely on the other 90% being

43:19

supported by people, and no matter how much we think we're capable

43:23

of everything. I don't service my car. I don't I

43:26

don't clean my floors. I have a cleaner. I'm not good at that.

43:30

But these people are in my life to support me, so I don't

43:34

feel alone. I have to do everything. I think when you you're talking here

43:37

about where mental health suffers is when you become truly

43:41

alone or lonely, you've got nobody to offload

43:45

any of your tasks or relationships or support

43:48

to. And even people who are who are rough sleeping,

43:53

they have a community within their rough sleeping.

43:56

Whether it's the when they get food, the big issue is sailing, or

44:00

their their complex under the bridge, they've got a community

44:03

there. And they're not homeless. Their

44:07

home is is there. They have a home. It's just that their

44:10

home isn't traditional. And so they but they have people around them that got their

44:14

back as well. Yeah. And I I I have to admit, I mean, community is

44:17

massive, and I I can't. What often happens and it happened to me is that

44:21

because of our experiences, we often believe that we have to do it alone.

44:26

I you know, sometimes that can trick us to thinking people can't be

44:29

trusted. People are gonna leave us. No matter how

44:33

nice they are now, they're probably gonna run away. Like, losing

44:37

my mom suddenly and having my dad, like, he was I he was very conditional

44:40

on how I had to be around him to get his love. That everything that

44:44

happened up until that, and even now I would say, I meant, like, I have

44:47

this kind of I'm hugely independent. I don't like letting

44:51

people in close. And, actually, when you mentioned about touch, yes, I like a little

44:55

bit of touch. But my daughter is fine. I'm coloring it, but, actually, sometimes it

44:58

kinda pushes me away because I'm like, my body is

45:02

kind of like, this feels weird. What these people actually want to cut cuddle me

45:05

or be close to me. So I have to be really mindful of that because

45:08

I know that community helps me, but equally, there's this part of me that always

45:12

wants to just do all your own acts. Just go on your own, mate. You

45:14

better. No one's gonna let you down and upset you. And I think I see

45:17

when you talk about homeless people or anyone struggling, usually because

45:21

they've been pushed away by so many people, if they

45:24

struggle to reach out or their their

45:28

threshold for pulling away from people is so low because they

45:32

anticipate rejection that they kind of almost reject themselves. But

45:36

saying, actually, if I don't if I stop seeing you and stop engaging in this

45:39

support, I know that eventually you won't you I you won't reject me. So

45:43

but we often don't see that. And I know that's what I've often do with

45:45

myself now and then, but I have to be really mindful of that now,

45:49

that when I'm maybe going forward to do

45:53

something or pushing myself to do something that actually I could do in my life,

45:56

I'm like, that little voice says, oh, do you really need to do that? Or

45:59

maybe you shouldn't, or I can even create a story in my mind that will

46:02

say, oh, well, actually, that person who's saying that you can do that is actually

46:05

bullshitting you. Right? I can easily create stories, but I think it's

46:09

like I have to be reading my well, you know what? Even if they are

46:12

bullshitting me or even if that person does reject me,

46:16

I can handle it, and I still got good people in my life. And that's

46:19

one thing that I'm really working on right now, and it's actually helping, actually having

46:23

that achieved. It's not easy, though. You kind of have to really deal delve into

46:26

it, but, yeah, it's some something that often goes the wrong

46:30

way when we've been pushed away by others. We kind of become over reliant on

46:34

ourselves, which isn't healthy either. Yeah. Protection is we're putting our shields up, aren't

46:38

we? We're sort of defending ourselves against future hurt. If I don't let you

46:41

in, I won't lose anything when you walk away. I'm I'm I can

46:45

trust myself but nobody else. Well, we're wired we're wired for 2 things

46:48

essentially, protection and connection. And we get our protection from

46:52

our connections, but if our connections don't like us for who we

46:56

are, then we change to seek the protection from those

47:00

connections, which makes us lose touch of ourselves. And

47:04

then we reject ourselves and then we end up in the wrong relationships with people

47:08

and settle for toxic people on good in our lives. And,

47:12

but then that just makes us miserable. And then we just think, should I go

47:15

on my own? When actually, we just need to trust ourselves,

47:18

deal with the discomfort of that, which can be really hard, and find the right

47:22

people. Again, that's why community is so important. It's there is a community out there

47:26

for everyone, I believe. It's just finding that right community and

47:29

having the courage to go out there and do it. But much easier said than

47:33

done, like everything I tend to say. Yeah. Also

47:36

ensuring that the community that you join is a

47:40

positive outcome. Because if not careful, because we're damaged

47:44

in our own self, we look for people who are also damaged, which can end

47:47

up being self destructive as well if we're not careful. That's a really good point

47:51

you raised there. Because, yes, you can. It's like we

47:55

this is a question I've been asking a few people recently. It's like, you know,

47:59

is the community that you feel validated and part of right now

48:03

keep actually helping you to grow or is it just keeping you stuck where you

48:06

are? Because and I think we probably find that on social media

48:09

now. Like, you know, we know we talked about this early, love me, like, about

48:13

outrage and how I think outrage supports substitution

48:17

for personal growth, but because it makes us feel powerful, it makes us feel like

48:20

we're actually doing anything. And, of course, we need outreach. Right? We need it. We

48:23

need to stand up and go, that's not acceptable. We need to change that. But

48:26

most people just say that's not acceptable, but not actually changing anything.

48:30

And I think, you know, sometimes the groups we find ourselves in just end up

48:33

keeping ourselves stuck, but that's a problem with probably the

48:36

well-being space and social media I find is that a lot of content is

48:40

just like, this is a trauma symptom or this this is this is a sign

48:44

you have this, this, or that. And all the content is just the same and

48:48

it just kinda validates, oh, yeah. This is why I'm struggling. But no one's like,

48:51

this is what you can do to overcome that struggle. And I think that's probably

48:54

what's lacking. But that's that's difficult because

48:58

if we can have people make us feel safe where we are, we'll stay where

49:01

we are. That's what humans like. We don't like to push

49:05

ourselves if we can avoid it. And, you know, the social media you're talking about

49:08

there, it's wants us to be angry. Yeah. That's something. It's almost

49:12

like creating that anger or conflict emotion in us. Yeah. And we

49:16

thrive off that. People feed off that pain, don't they? They suck the

49:19

pain out of you. And people wanna know that you're in more pain than

49:23

they are, and it becomes that self fulfilling. That's some

49:26

Yeah. We become used to pain and being angry with stuff. It's learned

49:30

helplessness, isn't it really? And that that's the thing we kinda get stuck where

49:34

we're like, I feel I already feel like I can't do anything with my life

49:38

and, well, this person also doesn't feel like they could do anything in life. So

49:41

let's just hang out and talk about how we can't do anything with our life.

49:44

You know? It's, it's Blame somebody else. It's not me. It's everybody

49:48

else. Yes. Yes. Yes. And even though it properly is other people,

49:51

like most of the time, you're still responsible for dealing with the mess that's left

49:55

with if in your life. And that's why I think people often

49:59

gets missed because I think I talk a lot about personal responsibility, but

50:02

I think the message in around personal responsibility is a bit too much with people.

50:06

You know, we tell people you're responsible for your life and I think you you

50:09

tell us something that, you know, you know, it's just overwhelming, isn't it? It's like

50:12

massive. I'm responsible for life because it's not true. You need people around you, but

50:16

I try and make it well. Okay. What are you what can you take responsibility

50:20

for now, and what can you do to help gain a bit more control of

50:23

your life? And that's where it comes to little daily things. Like you say, it

50:27

might be focusing on sleep, going for walks, hanging out with

50:31

good people, maybe, handing the notes in for a

50:35

job and applying for another job, you know, taking the course, applying for that course,

50:38

or could just be jumping in the shower or deciding to eat something healthy

50:42

for breakfast, you know. It's little things like that really we're responsible for and then

50:46

showing up consistently every moment with that approach

50:49

really. We're scared to change, aren't we? I I think the thing that holds us

50:52

back normally is is the fear of difference or the fear of something new. And

50:56

we envisage this big cliff edge, but often it's just a little step, isn't it?

51:00

We're not we're not diving off anywhere. We're just incremental changes.

51:04

Yeah. The mind is funny. Like, as I say, it likes comfort. It likes to

51:07

keep us in where we are, and we can all of us,

51:11

right now, whoever's listening to you, you're telling yourself the story you're telling yourself about

51:14

your life is the one that makes you feel most comfortable about where you are,

51:17

usually. Unless someone's thrown a grenade under it and made you go, oh, actually, I

51:21

need to do something about it. It's like health scare or relationship breakup or something

51:25

like that. So, yeah, we are scared of change. And I was gonna

51:29

say something important around that, but I completely forgot, but that's okay.

51:32

I don't know. I hear what you're saying there. It's it's when we're when we're

51:36

in these relationships or this momentum or social pressure to

51:40

carry on doing what we're doing, even though we have got agency, we have got

51:43

choice, we don't exercise it because staying in our

51:46

lane, in our zone, is is easier than the unknown

51:50

outside. And it's only when someone takes away our agency or choice

51:54

in such an extent where we have to change that

51:57

suddenly we realize and we look back at where we were, we

52:01

think, wow, how can I ever survive in that environment? What was I

52:05

thinking? Because once you put the blinkers off, you become very sentient

52:09

and aware of it, don't you? Yeah. Well, it's I think I can't remember who

52:12

said it. It was like, until the fear of staying the same becomes

52:15

greater than the fear of change, we won't change. And that's it. It's almost like

52:19

our life has to we have to get so uncomfortable to make changes

52:23

that we until we do, we probably won't. And I know that's what

52:26

happened with me when I was when I was experiencing suicidal ideation. I wanted to

52:30

end my life. I was like, my life got so uncomfortable, and I needed that

52:33

messaging from Victor Frankl to make me realize, god,

52:37

Alex, You actually need to go there and explore this stuff. You need to look

52:40

at what's happened to you rather than just acting like you're fine. You need

52:44

to actually look at this stuff. And I think as humans, we have

52:48

a tendency with our minds to think the work think things are gonna be a

52:51

lot worse than they actually are whilst also underestimating our ability to

52:55

handle it. You know? So, like, when we actually go and do the

52:58

thing that we're putting off doing because we're scared of, it doesn't

53:02

usually ends up being not as bad as before, and we usually end up being

53:05

fine. But, you know, that state of anxiety that

53:09

those those feelings we get when we're thinking about making changes, and they they're very

53:13

real and very valid. And if you've been rejected most of your life, then, of

53:16

course, it's awful. And And as and as well as that, it's if you feel

53:20

like you don't have the agency because of you don't have that control in your

53:23

life because of what you've experienced, you got that makes it really hard. But

53:27

when people have the right people around them to nudge them in the right

53:31

direction and the individual themselves has the courage. Okay. I'm gonna give

53:35

take that step knowing that if it goes tits up, I can come back and

53:38

speak to you, Alex, or someone like that. Then when you can have that around

53:41

you, then you tend to eventually create a better life. Now it takes longer than

53:45

we always anticipate. I always see people, and they're always the

53:49

people I'm a bit worried about like you and I, maybe I'm the wrong person

53:52

for this person. They're not really getting where I think they should be right now.

53:56

But, eventually, when they keep doing the right things, they get there. Okay. You know

53:59

what, Alex? You were so right. I just showed I just, you know, doing these

54:02

things that you've said and was whilst aligning with what I want in life has

54:06

really helped me to get to this place I need to get to. But you

54:09

have to be you have to, like, have that courage and just kind of take

54:12

a chance in yourself and just go for it. Don't do anything too risky, like,

54:16

sometimes you hear people say, well, just sack off your job. You know, go start

54:20

your own business. I'm like, no one who's ever telling you

54:24

that's what they did actually did that. They probably had a partner behind them

54:27

who had some money in savings. They probably had some savings. They probably got support

54:31

of family, whatever. No one or very few people actually did that. Take a little

54:35

pinch of salt. You have to make sure you've got your needs met because

54:38

if you you'll burn out before you get anywhere, if you take too much of

54:41

a leap and you haven't got your needs met. But if

54:45

you've got some stability, probably not just

54:49

enough, probably not as much as you like, then, yes, take some chances to go

54:52

for it. So and, usually, that's the ability to just

54:56

be having one. Yeah. We've gone pretty

55:00

deep. We're gonna have some people listening to this show who are maybe

55:04

experiencing some of the traumas or mental health

55:08

needs that you've mentioned. Have you got sort of 2 or 3 top tips that

55:11

people who are listening right now could grab hold of

55:15

and do? Okay. So the first I always say this, like,

55:19

the relationship you have yourself is the foundations for

55:23

any recovery. Now you can't just

55:27

flip your relationship with yourself overnight. You're not gonna look yourself in the mirror every

55:31

day, say nice things to yourself like some people say, and you're gonna feel better

55:34

about yourself. But one thing you can start doing is and I've touched

55:37

upon this earlier. Instead of see the problem making yourself the problem

55:41

when things are going wrong, view the problem you're experiencing as the problem.

55:45

So if you're struggling with a relationship, rather than thinking that who you are is

55:49

problematic, say, well, issues these are the issues I'm having my relationship.

55:54

Rather than if you're struggling with your mental health, maybe you got depression, anxiety, or

55:58

whatever, rather than thinking I'm the problem here, think, oh, I'm

56:01

experiencing depression. I'm experiencing anxiety. It may separate who you are from

56:05

what's experiencing what you're experiencing. Another one is just

56:09

take personal responsibility for what you can. Get some help,

56:13

reach out to the right people, find a community for you, and just

56:16

take it day by day. I know it sounds really basic, but I honestly

56:20

think habit trackers are one of the best things for people's mental health.

56:24

Like, setting a goal every night before you go to bed is something you're gonna

56:27

do for yourself the next day. Do it and

56:31

tick it off. Doesn't sound like a lot, but when you keep doing that over

56:34

a period of time, you start building your self esteem and showing yourself that actually

56:37

you look after yourself. And another one is just be patient.

56:41

Like, as I said already, like, no one gets as

56:45

well as quickly as they like. This is why we're all suckers for

56:49

that person who comes on social media and says, I can heal your trauma like

56:53

this if you do this. And you're like, oh, yes. I've been struggling. I've been

56:56

in therapy for a year or so, and this doesn't work for me. And I'm

56:58

like, I'm gonna do this. Only to find that that probably doesn't work. But instead

57:02

of realizing the thing you're trying wasn't ever gonna work, you, again, beat

57:05

yourself up. But if you can, like, be patient and just do the right things,

57:09

and, yes, recognize it could be ups and downs, that will

57:13

help you along the way. But it's it's a

57:16

journey. Like, let's just say, like, it's just be the most important thing is just

57:20

be gentle with yourself. Again, the most important bit of advice

57:24

is you're not the problem, the problem's the problem. If you can start

57:28

remembering that, even if, yes, you're doing a million and one things that are contributing

57:31

to the problem, at least by viewing your life like that, you'll be able to

57:35

learn, grow, and recover from those setbacks and use those setbacks to hopefully,

57:39

eventually, create better circumstances for you moving forward. Be

57:43

gentle with yourself, and you are not the problem. The problem is the

57:46

problem. I think that's a great place to leave it. Alex, how can people

57:50

get a hold of you? As I said, we've went deep we've gone pretty deep

57:53

here. And if people wanna get a hold of you to talk about this, find

57:56

out more about you, how do they get a hold of you? Yeah. You can

57:58

find me on LinkedIn, Instagram, and TikTok. I'm mostly

58:02

active on LinkedIn, to be honest, purely because having a little kid, I haven't got

58:05

time I haven't had time to make videos, so my content on the other

58:08

platforms hasn't been good, but it's, the Alex J Williams

58:12

is my handle on all those platforms. But you can also drop me an email

58:16

at alex@alexjwilliams.co.uk if you wanna have a

58:19

chat. I'm always open to having discussions with people. I don't

58:23

have anything to sell. I'm just here to help people. Yeah. If anyone wants

58:27

to reach out, just give give me a shout. Alex,

58:31

thank you. You're welcome.

58:37

As we bring this conversation to a close, I want to

58:41

express my deepest gratitude to you, our listener, for

58:45

lending your ear and heart to the cause of inclusion.

58:49

Today's discussion strike a chord. Consider subscribing to

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vision to share? I'm all ears. Reach out to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk,

59:15

and let's make your voice heard. Until next time. This

59:19

is Joanne Lockwood signing off with a promise to return

59:22

with more enriching narratives that challenge, inspire,

59:27

and unite us all. Here's to fostering a more inclusive world,

59:30

one episode at a time. Catch you on the next bite.