0:00

White

0:03

studio.

0:08

Twenty twenty, twenty twenty one, actually

0:10

the number of crypto accounts overtook

0:12

a d mat account. Here is a generation that

0:15

just started reading about finance

0:17

and suddenly because all of them were

0:19

at home and they have and they've not

0:22

experienced the consequences of risk.

0:24

You go so quickly all

0:26

in that forty years of

0:28

stock market and two years of crypto

0:30

and you end up having twice the amount of crypto

0:33

accounts as compared to d mat account.

0:35

To grow in your career, I think

0:37

for the first five years to grow in your

0:39

career, your core skill matters. But

0:41

after five years where you end up depends

0:44

on your management skills and not your core

0:46

skills. Following the advice of your seniors

0:48

or your managers actually don't work

0:50

because the dynamics. Have changed. And we think

0:52

we are doing the right steps while the results not

0:54

coming. Ultimately, including me,

0:56

most of us, on YouTube, on social

0:58

media, More than finance

1:01

experts, we are entertain

1:04

in a lot of way. No

1:06

one has a lot of proven track record

1:08

of making or managing public money.

1:10

No one has that. It's just that

1:12

we reproduce knowledge that

1:15

assumed to be boring in a more entertaining

1:17

and in a more bite sized way. You know, in

1:19

my school, we studied moral science

1:22

in a way that in today's chapter, we'll

1:24

study about morality. In today's

1:26

chapter, we'll study about honesty. I

1:28

never found that in you

1:30

know, Indian mythology. So I think Mahabhada,

1:33

Kamra, and all of that, the Indian way

1:35

of education is including everything

1:38

in an interesting story because

1:40

Probably the thought process for it is then

1:42

that you retain more.

1:50

From Wine Studio, you are listening to

1:52

the inspiring talk, a

1:55

show where I bring the conversations with

1:57

today's most successful and

1:59

inspiring personalities to

2:01

help you take your life, business,

2:03

and career to the next level. If

2:12

there is one thing that I wish I had learned

2:14

way before than I did was

2:16

to educate myself about

2:19

finance not to jump into

2:21

any of the asset class just because

2:23

it's in the hype. For instance,

2:25

in twenty twenty, I invested a lot

2:28

into crypto thinking that I'm gonna

2:30

miss out the opportunity to make a lot

2:32

of money in the crypto bandwagon. And

2:35

to cut the long story short, today

2:37

my portfolio is down by

2:39

ninety percent and that's or

2:41

huge loss. We

2:43

make such bad financial decisions.

2:45

For several reasons. Either we

2:47

operate from the former mindset like

2:49

I did where we do not put a lot

2:51

of time efforts and energy in understanding about

2:54

that as a class. Or we

2:56

get influenced by people when we follow

2:58

the ship herd mentality when everyone

3:01

else is doing it, so should do it as well.

3:03

Third, we don't also look at our personal

3:06

needs on where our financial

3:08

condition is and how we should

3:10

really think about our money. And this

3:12

takes a lot of time efforts and energy

3:15

in understanding the finance. And

3:18

I wish I took up

3:20

this journey of learning about finance

3:23

way before than I did in my life. So in

3:25

today's episode, I invited Prudzel Kamra. Who

3:27

is a finance creator

3:30

who has been creating for a really, really

3:32

long time educating people on investments,

3:34

stocks, and finance. He has got

3:36

almost five million subscribers

3:39

on his YouTube channel and also runs

3:41

a company called Finalose Ventures.

3:43

In this episode, we discussed about what are the

3:45

kind of safety nets that we need to have

3:47

in place before we even

3:49

start our investment journey. How should

3:51

we really think about our retirement? How

3:54

should we go about planning finance

3:56

as couple and Also, he

3:58

shared something interesting which got my

4:00

attention, which is if it's

4:02

anything new and not

4:04

proven, should you really get into

4:06

it? To have a early benefit or

4:08

the risks are higher. And there are so

4:10

many such topics that we uncover

4:13

in this episode. There's a lot

4:15

that you can take back from this episode.

4:17

I wish I had this kind of financial

4:19

information really early

4:21

on in my life. I hope you

4:23

will take back a lot from this conversation

4:25

and learn a lot Let's

4:27

get Pranjal,

4:33

thank you so much. Thank you so much for having

4:35

me here. I'm sure the kind of discussion

4:37

we have had tried regarding this. I will

4:39

be challenged today. No.

4:42

I try and do that. I try and kind

4:44

of bring the different perspectives on each of the conversations.

4:47

And this conversation, we are gonna

4:49

try and make this a

4:51

wealth master class up sort

4:54

for somebody who's listening and trying to

4:56

figure out this whole world of finance.

4:59

And I love what you said before we,

5:01

you know, started rolling was that oftentimes

5:04

people think finance is a separate

5:06

entity, and there is something that, you know, is a

5:08

different. And you said how it is integrated

5:10

in our life. Right? So maybe we

5:12

can start by expanding a little

5:14

bit on that one. And what do you mean when you

5:16

say it's integrated? And also

5:18

share how did we land

5:20

here where finances is

5:22

something's excluded or it's it's

5:24

not the integrated part. I think, you

5:26

know, if if we zoom out, I just think

5:29

that's the probably, in my limited

5:31

knowledge, that's the western way of education.

5:33

You know, you isolate compounds

5:35

in the study of medicine

5:38

and you isolate subjects, you know,

5:40

while trying to teach human. So for example, you

5:42

know, in my school, we studied

5:44

moral science in a way that in

5:46

today's chapter, we'll study about morality.

5:48

In today's chapter, we'll study about honesty.

5:51

I never found that in

5:53

Indian mythology. Munch tantra,

5:55

you never even realize what

5:57

model values are you getting while

5:59

reading those stories. So I think

6:01

Mahabharat, Kamra, all of that, the

6:03

Indian way of education is

6:05

including everything in an interesting

6:08

story. Because probably

6:10

the thought process, but it is then that you retain

6:12

more. And in the same lines,

6:14

I tried a lot of self help books and

6:16

somehow whatever I read did not

6:18

stick with me. In a few months.

6:20

Whereas if you read a few interesting

6:22

stories, it sticks with you. So I

6:24

think finance as a separate field of

6:26

study, it's not that just It happened

6:29

just with finance, but it's the western way

6:31

of education probably where you study subjects

6:33

in isolation. I think specifically

6:35

for finance, So for example, health,

6:37

not everyone in the family

6:40

needs to be absolutely aware

6:42

of what herbs or what medicines do

6:44

what. Know, if you have a family doctor he or

6:46

she will take care of it. But when it

6:48

comes to finance, not just one

6:50

member in the family, but every

6:52

individual in the family needs to understand

6:54

the basics of parents. So

6:56

because it's so important not for

6:58

one family, a one extended Kamra, but

7:00

every individual to learn, it becomes

7:02

a very core part of your life.

7:05

And it's then it becomes something very

7:07

indispensable And therefore,

7:09

it should be taught not in isolation, but

7:11

along with your daily learnings. So, you know, we

7:13

tell during or during the days,

7:15

I remember my parents teaching me

7:17

the import importance of telling the truth,

7:19

importance of not harming anyone.

7:22

But very rarely, would

7:24

I hear how to use

7:26

money? You know, when it comes to money, they

7:28

would say, you would get ten rupees a

7:30

month, ten rupees a week, and things like

7:32

that, and you can do whatever you want.

7:34

So all we are taught is probably budgeting

7:36

but nothing beyond that. And you know,

7:38

ultimately, whatever financial

7:41

decisions we take impacts

7:43

our lives, our families' lives, and

7:45

everyone is impacted. And those impacts

7:47

are sometimes irreversible and very,

7:49

very long term. So I think if

7:51

finance is taught at a very

7:53

young age, seven year five year old,

7:56

your ten year old, is when

7:58

your finance learnings will automatically

8:01

be included in the stories that parents

8:03

tell to their children. The simple reason

8:05

finance became isolated from other subjects

8:07

is because we are taught finance from

8:09

high school, not from primary school

8:11

or middle school. Because the way of teaching in

8:13

primary schools is very different. It's all

8:15

inclusive. So I think the problem

8:17

is that we don't teach finance early enough

8:19

if we just start doing it. It will be

8:21

more inclusive. Yeah. That's really interesting.

8:23

And because we

8:26

didn't get that kind of knowledge when we were

8:28

schooling, I remember pretty much like what

8:30

you said. Right? The best that I would know is the

8:32

budgeting bit of it. And

8:34

I tried my hands a little bit

8:36

on trying to sell something by from

8:38

somewhere and try and sell it to my, you know, friends

8:40

and so on and so forth. Maybe a bit of

8:42

understanding of, like, you know, you you get

8:44

somewhere, and I understood a bit of concept of profit

8:46

and loss. But, I mean, that's

8:48

pretty much it. Right? So nothing where

8:50

you got this wisdom or

8:52

knowledge as a as a practice. Right? So

8:54

because of which, what are some of the things that

8:56

you really think, the

8:59

association that people

9:01

build with money which is

9:04

negatively impacting the

9:06

wealth creation process. We'll

9:08

start by talking about mindset, and

9:10

then we'll get into the whole process of wealth

9:12

generation, you know, as a follow-up to

9:14

once you've covered the mindset. Like, what is the kind of

9:16

association that we started

9:18

generating for the wealth? Because

9:20

of the beginning that we had as a

9:22

culture. Right. And and this

9:24

is broader than personal finance, but I

9:26

think one misconception or

9:28

one one wrong notion about money that

9:30

we all develop. And it's very pervasive --

9:33

Yeah. -- in the sense that, you know, we

9:35

always measure how well

9:37

we are utilizing money. In terms of,

9:39

say say, you mentioned in your growing

9:41

up days you used to sell things, you know, to make

9:43

money. And always, the focus

9:45

would be at what price did you buy the

9:47

material? Yeah. And at what price did you

9:49

sell? True. So what was your profit margin?

9:51

Profit margin. We are tuned

9:53

to think in terms of money, with

9:55

that personal money, or business, that

9:58

it's about profit and loss. Mhmm. You

10:00

know, how much you earn How much at

10:02

what price did you buy and at what price did you sell?

10:04

So it's always profit margin.

10:07

But the basic fundamental of

10:09

money is not profit margin

10:11

per unit. It's actually

10:13

return on capital. Just

10:15

to give you an example, and if you just start

10:17

thinking this way, We'll manage our

10:19

finances well, and we'll get better in our

10:21

profession and also our business. Just to give

10:23

you an example, so there are two

10:25

people, person a, person b, both

10:27

buy pencils, say ten pencils

10:30

worth ten rupees each. So

10:32

so at the start of the day, they both

10:34

invested a hundred rupees. Now,

10:36

person a decided he wants to

10:38

sell pencils at a premium. So

10:40

the the pencil that he bought at ten rupees.

10:42

He started selling at, say,

10:44

fifteen rupees. So he earned five

10:46

rupees per pencil. By the

10:48

end of the day, he sells his ten

10:50

pencils, and he has one fifty rupees

10:52

with him. So on on hundred

10:54

rupees, he made fifty rupees. And, you

10:56

know, we would measure his performance by

10:58

that. He sold ten pencils, Five per

11:00

pencil, he made fifty rupees. So an investment of

11:02

hundred rupees in the beginning, he

11:04

earned fifty rupees. Five rupees per

11:06

pencil, fifty percent margin. This

11:08

is another person who buys

11:10

the same pencils, ten pencils, add

11:13

ten rupees each, but he starts selling at eleven

11:15

rupees. Therefore, he ends up

11:17

selling more of it. You know, people are

11:19

buying more. The the person the other

11:21

person is selling at fifteen, I'm getting here at eleven,

11:23

so people buy more. By the end of the

11:25

day, he's able to sell a hundred

11:27

pencils. He earns only one

11:29

rupee per pencil, but he

11:31

sells hundred of them. And in the

11:33

end of the day, he had a hundred rupees

11:35

on top of the hundred he invested.

11:37

So his return on capital was

11:39

actually a hundred percent, but We

11:42

measure performance by he earns five rupees

11:44

per pencil and he earns one rupee per

11:46

pencil, and we measure everything

11:48

in terms of p and l. Whereas return

11:50

on capital or return on investment

11:52

is much more important than

11:54

everyday P and L. Just to give you an

11:56

example of Walmart, Now one of the biggest

11:58

corporations of the world, its

12:00

profit margin is point five percent.

12:02

That point five percent actually

12:04

allows them to sell a lot of stuff.

12:06

Yeah. So they are earning point five

12:08

on a lot of transactions. During

12:11

my childhood, I I did a lot of

12:13

child friendly businesses like Lending

12:15

comic books -- Mhmm. -- printing games, CDs, and things like

12:17

that. And even I always thought that

12:19

way, how much did I earn

12:21

per unit of transaction? Mhmm.

12:23

But that's such a wrong way to think about it.

12:25

Ultimately, all you are concerned

12:27

about is this much money I put

12:29

in, how much did I money did I

12:31

make, on the money I put in. Because

12:33

ultimately you want your money to work for

12:35

you. So you also measure performance

12:37

on how much incremental

12:39

return you made on money. On your

12:41

money. That's how hard your money worked.

12:43

So you also have to measure. It's

12:45

not about how hard you work.

12:47

It's about how hard you made your

12:49

money work. If money is an object

12:51

that doesn't get tired, you want

12:53

your money to work really, really hard

12:55

for you. So I think that's one difference

12:58

that I think a lot of businessmen don't

13:00

understand, professionals don't understand, and

13:02

salary people definitely don't understand.

13:04

That's really interesting. Now I think that's a

13:06

great way to look at it. Right? And also in the

13:08

place, like India, we have a crazy

13:10

number of people here. Right? And I think

13:12

the game of volume if you look at. And

13:14

this is something that I was talking to having a good reason

13:16

this morning. The Amazon Prime subscription in

13:18

India cost thousand rupees and in UK it

13:21

cost. Ten thousand rupees a

13:23

year. And I don't know the numbers, but I'm

13:25

assuming that time probably would make way

13:27

more here in India than in UK

13:29

that they will able because the share volume

13:31

of people that we have, like like I said, I don't I

13:33

haven't looked at the number what that number is like,

13:35

but because the number of

13:37

people that we have, right, they would make

13:39

way more than that. So that's

13:41

one aspect of it that we do

13:43

not look at return of the,

13:45

you know, on our investment. So

13:47

And also, like, when it comes to

13:49

making money, what are some of

13:51

the, like, biggest disbeliefs

13:53

or biggest, like, mindset

13:56

blocks that you think we do

13:58

have, a lot of people that you have encountered,

14:00

and the people who are working at

14:02

Zoom or the people who are

14:04

mostly, let's say, working professional

14:06

or salaried people and also, like, business

14:08

owners to some extent. Like, from the mindset

14:10

perspective, what do you feel that, you know,

14:12

they they just don't understand? think, you

14:14

know, we have this high

14:16

sense of entitlement that, you

14:18

know, just because I was always the top

14:20

of my or I crack the deal or

14:22

IIT or I am, you know, I

14:24

deserve this much. You know, we

14:26

need to understand that Kamra

14:30

twelve class, say twelve class every

14:32

year in CBSC, roughly

14:34

twelve to thirteen lakh students appear

14:36

for the CBSC twelve class

14:38

exam. Probably five lakh each

14:40

of those would be from commerce and five

14:42

lakh signs and the remaining

14:44

ispromarts. So imagine this and this is

14:46

really terrifying we understand

14:48

this, every year,

14:50

five lakh students are studying

14:52

the exact same poems, plays,

14:54

and stories that I'm studying. So

14:56

basically, we are preparing five lakh

14:58

clones every year, and your working

15:00

life is roughly thirty, thirty five years.

15:02

So you multiply five lakh by thirty,

15:04

thirty five times, and that is the number of

15:06

people who have studied the same thing throughout

15:08

their school. And then you

15:10

want your employer to consider

15:12

US different. How Anurts will he or she be

15:14

able to consider US different? You know?

15:16

Someone might have scored sixty

15:18

percent in it. Someone might have scored eighty

15:20

percent But essentially, they've all studied the

15:22

same same thing. So no matter how

15:24

good you get at it, there

15:26

are ten times more people who know eighty,

15:28

ninety percent of what you know. So

15:31

why should you be valued higher? You

15:33

know, I I'm a big believer in

15:35

interdisciplinary learning. I think to a

15:37

man with a Kamra, everything looks like a

15:39

nail, which is and which is why it's extremely

15:41

important that a science student learns

15:43

about commerce and arts, a commerce

15:45

students learns about the other two

15:47

disciplines, because ultimately, you know, you

15:49

never know which mental models model

15:51

helps you in which, you know, corner of

15:53

life. So I think one way to get

15:55

ahead is to learn

15:57

something about all the disciplines, psychology,

16:00

sociology, political science, economics.

16:02

If you know all of that a little bit,

16:04

at least the basics. You know how

16:06

how unfortunate this is that a science

16:09

student probably doesn't know

16:11

five basic principles of economics, and

16:13

an economic students does not understand

16:15

five basic principles of physics. That

16:18

really limits our cognitive ability

16:20

and, you know, our ability to take

16:22

decisions. Because ultimately, you know, to grow in

16:24

your career, I think for the

16:26

first five years to grow in your career,

16:28

your core skill matters. But

16:30

after five years where you end up

16:32

depends on your management skills and not

16:34

your core skill. So how will

16:36

you end up improving your

16:38

management skills by reading

16:40

about various aspects? That is when

16:42

you can handle various people, handle

16:44

different situations and you become

16:46

an overall better manager. I think

16:48

that's really, really powerful thought

16:50

on the way, you know, you've said, like, hey,

16:52

you know what I'm a top or whatever. But ultimately,

16:54

we've learned the same thing that hundred other people have

16:56

learned or thousands of people have learned. And it

16:58

also is about, like, if you

17:00

want to make more then

17:02

you have to figure out, like, what is it

17:04

that I know that a lot there's

17:07

ninety five percent of the other people coming

17:09

down. The only way to earn more

17:12

is to become in a job setting I'm

17:14

talking about is to become

17:16

irreplaceable. The only way

17:18

as an employer I'm going to pay you

17:20

more than the market is be is if cannot

17:22

replace you. So how do you make yourself

17:25

irreplaceable? Simply by building

17:27

various mental models, how

17:29

will you do it by reading about various

17:31

disciplines. So it's very very simple if

17:33

we think like that. Yeah.

17:35

That's really interesting. And now

17:37

that's one aspect of it. Right? Say, hey. You know

17:39

what? Okay. Now I in a

17:41

way, got a framework to

17:43

know how can I probably make

17:45

more in the job setting by

17:47

doing things in a different way figuring out

17:49

the ways to make things happen,

17:51

and thinking of the things that no one else

17:53

is thinking. And how you're gonna do that

17:55

is by if you just look at in your industry,

17:57

then there's, like, a certain way of thinking. Right?

17:59

But when you go and look at other industries and

18:01

probably you can get in something that that you

18:03

can plug in in whatever you are doing, that

18:05

makes it different in unique. Right? And I think

18:07

I remember this Teams also went to the

18:10

calligraphy class. And that's when

18:12

the font and stuff came in came into

18:14

picture. Right? If we never went to the

18:16

calligraphy class, then probably we would never

18:18

had like, I don't know. Like, if

18:20

we able, you know, get that font

18:22

on our thing. Right? You know,

18:24

one thing I've also observed

18:27

when you're trying to grow your own industry

18:29

by trying to do

18:31

things which are supposedly you're supposed to

18:33

do in order to grow in your industry. So, you

18:36

know, in every industry, there are your seniors who tell

18:38

you do this, list this, and you'll end

18:40

up doing it well. Yeah. But I think

18:43

that feedback that you

18:45

get from your managers or seniors

18:47

that, you know, do these three steps and

18:49

you'll do well, that feedback or the

18:51

are those suggestions are often delayed.

18:54

Just to give you an example, you

18:56

know, four years ago, I started hiring.

18:59

And there was this girl that we

19:01

hired as our so she joined us as an

19:03

intern. And the only reason we took her as an

19:05

intern was that she had cleared

19:07

CFA level one. And back then four

19:09

years ago, was really tough

19:11

to find someone who had cleared even

19:13

CFA level one in Raipur. Now

19:15

she's almost completed with

19:17

her CFA. And I know it for a

19:19

fact that for the next ten years,

19:21

people would look up to her in her

19:23

family. She's doing really well at our

19:25

company as well. And and I think

19:27

she is the first female

19:29

person to work in her family. So

19:31

a lot of people in her family, her

19:33

cousins look up to her. And, you

19:35

know, for the next ten years, they

19:37

would look up to her. And if she

19:39

continues telling them that, you know,

19:41

you should do CFA. I did

19:43

CFA level one, and I got a good job.

19:45

And from then, everything went well. But

19:47

as a recruiter, I know the

19:49

reality that today, if you're CFA

19:51

level one, you know, they're so easily

19:54

available. We don't even look at them. You need

19:56

to be at least CFA level two

19:58

to be an intern at our

20:00

company. Because people

20:02

like her very dynamic and changing

20:04

super quickly. And people like her, they are

20:06

such big role models that seeing her a

20:08

hundred more people end up doing CFS.

20:10

So so by the time you realize that,

20:13

okay, she might have followed the those

20:15

steps and those turned out to be really

20:17

well, times were different, and time stamps

20:19

drastically in five years. So often, I

20:21

think, you know, following the advice

20:23

of your seniors or your managers

20:25

actually don't work because the dynamics

20:27

have

20:27

changed. And we think we are doing the right steps

20:29

why the results not coming because

20:31

it's delayed. That's really interesting. So what's

20:33

the kind of difference that you

20:35

see

20:35

in, let's say, the understanding of

20:38

money in the millennials

20:40

versus the Gen Z. Do you see

20:42

any difference on how both of these

20:45

different generation set up

20:47

approach money. So

20:49

there's one difference that

20:51

I that I clearly notice is

20:53

that, you know, millennials started

20:55

learning about money at a slightly older

20:58

age. But Gen Z, they're probably learning

21:00

about money ten years of age,

21:02

twelve years of age. So so this is

21:04

the first generation that's actually learning

21:06

about finance in the prepayments -- Yeah. --

21:08

age group. That has never

21:10

happened. What are the consequences of

21:12

it? I don't really know. We

21:14

have to wait for five years and see the consequences of

21:17

it. But I see this crypto boom

21:19

that happened in the last couple of

21:21

years probably happened because a

21:23

lot of youngsters were coming in and

21:25

and, you know, all they had was

21:27

digital learning. And also, like, when

21:30

Zomato IPO happened. Right? The Mezzo

21:32

investor, a lot of the individual

21:34

investor, the first time investors. Sure.

21:36

You wouldn't have imagined that, like, three

21:38

years back or five years back, let's say. So the

21:40

reason I did not bring IPOs

21:42

up is I think in all bull

21:44

markets last thirty years since

21:46

nineties this is one common trend that if IPOs are doing

21:48

well, a lot of fresh investors come in,

21:50

a lot of Demag accounts are open.

21:52

But I think studdenly,

21:55

you know, in twenty twenty, twenty

21:57

twenty one, actually, the number of crypto

22:00

accounts overtook on d

22:02

chat accounts. This is because of a generational

22:04

shift. That here's a

22:06

generation that just started reading

22:08

about finance And suddenly, because

22:10

all of them were at home, and they've not

22:12

experienced the consequences of risk.

22:14

And and because, naturally,

22:16

this is an age group where you're

22:18

it to the latest and the most

22:20

hyped asset class. Asset class. Yeah. You

22:23

go so quickly all

22:25

in that forty years of stock

22:27

market and two years of crypto, and

22:29

you end up having twice the amount of

22:31

crypto accounts as compared to

22:33

dmat account. So that is one thing that

22:35

clearly happened because of Gen Z and

22:37

younger millennials suddenly

22:39

thinking, okay, tech, this is the way to

22:41

go. So never before this has happened at

22:43

an asset new asset class that

22:45

has emerged probably in the last five

22:47

years in India specifically. In the

22:49

last five years, an asset

22:51

class emerges and becomes a

22:53

bigger asset class compared to stock

22:55

market. Usually, a new asset

22:57

class would have been viewed with

22:59

huge suspicion it would take ten years

23:01

to mature and then the adoption

23:03

curve will be slower. There's

23:05

suddenly an asset class emerging and becoming

23:07

the biggest I think this happened because

23:09

of this younger generation. So I don't

23:11

know what the consequences will

23:13

be. So there are, like, both

23:15

sides to this. Right? I mean, because adoption

23:17

maybe also because the times that we're living

23:19

at. Right? Like, I mean, maybe if it took forty

23:21

years for this stock

23:23

as a asset class to develop,

23:25

But we're leaving the time, which is where things are moving

23:27

at, like, a rapid scale, the tech and,

23:29

like, where whatever you look. Right? The way the

23:32

way things are moving where

23:34

you and I would have thought that, hey, you know what? I

23:36

think this is something that's gonna take, like, at

23:38

least five to ten years is happening

23:40

in, like, a year's time,

23:42

you know, with the AI and all the all the stuff.

23:44

Right? And then maybe that's also the

23:46

factor to this, like, see, I would have understood

23:49

it if it was comparatively easier to

23:51

invest in cryptos and stock market still

23:53

reward a lot of paperwork. It's

23:55

equally easy to invest in the

23:57

stock market. And stock market has

23:59

certain using that it's more of a

24:01

marketing and the hype that it

24:03

it been generated around it? It's

24:05

simply because it's very

24:07

techie. It's very cool and that is what preteens

24:09

or teens relate with. It's it's it

24:11

could be fashion, it could be food, it could be

24:14

culture, anything. But I

24:16

think Anything that's new,

24:18

the younger you are, the more acceptable

24:20

you are because you don't have anchoring

24:22

of the past technology or the past era. You

24:24

enter this ecosystem now and

24:26

whatever is the coolest or the

24:28

most hyped, you think that's the

24:31

base. You're not anchored to the past. So naturally, younger

24:33

people are more tuned to accepting

24:35

change because they're not anchored

24:37

from the past. So think one

24:40

thing that I saw is the

24:42

only reason this could have became twice the

24:44

size in terms of number of accounts. Of course,

24:46

total investment is much less because the younger generation is

24:49

investing so their ticket size is lower. But in

24:51

terms of number of accounts is

24:53

because this the younger you are,

24:55

the more risk friendly

24:57

you are. You're willing to take more amount

24:59

of risk because you don't

25:01

understand the consequences of

25:03

that. Now, when cryptos are down eighty,

25:05

ninety percent, I'm sure they

25:07

understand. So, you know, in terms

25:09

of if I say learning curve, it

25:11

hasn't changed. I think our father's

25:13

generation learned this way, taking

25:15

excessive risk, understanding consequences, becoming

25:17

the skivers, millennials understood this

25:19

way, and Gen Z's also understanding

25:21

this way. It's just and

25:24

and it's unfortunate that they

25:26

exposed themselves to cryptos,

25:28

suffered where more loss

25:30

than previous generations because stock

25:32

markets don't go down eighty, ninety percent

25:34

that often. And because

25:36

of this, Stock

25:38

market and Crypto's both are now

25:40

painted with the same brush in their minds.

25:42

So that's a little unfortunate. No.

25:45

That's a really interesting perspective right

25:47

there. So we're talking about the

25:49

the mindset of the people and the other

25:51

skills and stuff like that. Right? So for somebody

25:53

to make more money, what are the things

25:55

that they need to understand? Fundamentally, like, one

25:58

thing that we said, like, hey, you don't

26:00

look at just profit and loss, P

26:02

and L. Second thing that we said, like,

26:04

hey, how you are differentiating from

26:06

hundreds of other people who have read the same thing

26:08

that you have

26:08

read. That's right. So what else?

26:10

in terms of your talking about how

26:12

to get more

26:13

from your investments or no.

26:15

In general. In general, like, for me to make more money

26:17

-- Mhmm. -- there are the few things that you need

26:20

to know. Like, one, we say, like, you

26:22

know, p and l. And then there's, like,

26:24

skills. Mhmm. What else? You

26:26

know, first, I'll talk about active income Kamra then

26:28

I'll talk about passive income collectively. You have

26:30

both ways. So one, no matter

26:32

your self employed, employed,

26:34

or in a business. Thousands of

26:37

years of human civilization we

26:39

have certain ground rules -- Mhmm. -- and

26:41

we need to respect and

26:43

learn about those ground rules.

26:45

I think A lot of times,

26:47

someone and and this is true

26:49

for me as well. I manage a company

26:51

of fifty fifty five people. And if you

26:53

ask me, do I know that ten ground rules of

26:55

how to be a decent CEO.

26:57

Probably, I don't. Probably, I know four or

26:59

five rules, but I don't always

27:01

act using those mental model.

27:03

So I think whatever you are doing, I

27:06

I really like how Doolin and

27:08

Seivalu would break down cricket

27:10

that ultimately it's about

27:12

bad hitting the ball. It's

27:14

if your head is clear, most of the

27:16

times you'll end up doing that because if you

27:18

have reached that level, obviously, you

27:20

have the skill. Now it's about going back to the

27:22

basics and keeping your mind clear. And I

27:25

think that's true for what

27:27

we do in our lives. Sometimes we over

27:29

complicate things. We we figure out

27:31

great hacks that work for short term but

27:33

don't work in the long run

27:35

because what are most hacks?

27:37

Safinance hacks, business hacks, they are

27:39

information arbitrage. They work

27:41

for few months, weeks. Everyone figures

27:43

that out and stops working.

27:46

But we don't pay enough attention to ground

27:48

rules. As a tech engineer,

27:51

how am I supposed to

27:53

learn new which is what is the most

27:55

efficient way to learn a new language in

27:57

the least possible time. So what would

27:59

I do? If I'm trying to

28:01

be that, I will try to find probably

28:03

the similarities between between every

28:05

different tech language. Okay. These are

28:07

the five ground rules on which every

28:11

language works. So I'm very clear on

28:13

them. And every time, then I start learning

28:15

a new language. I don't start from scratch. I

28:17

know that Every new language is at

28:19

least thirty, forty percent similar to the

28:21

previous one, and these are the similarities.

28:23

So I always start forty percent

28:25

ahead. I don't start from scratch because I'm aware

28:27

of the ground rules. So I think in our

28:29

discipline, if we are aware of the ground

28:31

rules, we learn quicker. It's

28:33

more efficient. And and we don't feel

28:35

lost when we are getting started. And

28:37

this is just about in your

28:39

particular field. I think there are

28:41

a few ground rules in life as well

28:43

as a professional as well as a family

28:46

person as well as a friend as well.

28:48

So I think in each dimensions

28:50

of our life, if we are clear around

28:52

our ground rules -- Mhmm. -- and the

28:54

nonnegotiables went to say no --

28:56

Mhmm. -- I think life becomes

28:58

much easier. Also, now coming

29:00

into both something that works

29:02

in active and passive

29:04

income, and this is particularly about

29:06

money. In general, if you are investing,

29:09

if you are saving, or, you

29:11

know, if you are taking loans, all

29:13

three aspects, lending insurance investments,

29:16

boring is good. You know, if someone

29:18

brings you a fancy insurance,

29:20

it has to be bad. It's just

29:22

a new way for them to make more money

29:24

because the regulator has recently

29:27

probably reduced margins. And therefore,

29:29

that previous product is not lucrative

29:32

enough. So they, you know, find

29:34

a way around the regulators, new

29:36

regulations, and bring in a fancy

29:38

product. If it's fancy, if it's

29:40

new, it's not good. It's true

29:42

for insurance, It's true for investments. Crypto's

29:44

are an example. It's true for

29:46

lending, say, buy now pay later cards and are

29:48

an example. You think that you are using

29:50

a credit card end up taking multiple

29:53

personal loans. It impacts your cibil.

29:55

Anything that's new IPOs are

29:57

another example. If there are five

29:59

thousand companies already listed,

30:01

and this new kid on the block is up for

30:04

sale. Before adopting that

30:06

new kid, I have to

30:08

convince myself How

30:10

is this new kid better than the five

30:12

thousand previous ones already

30:14

available? Just because of Pia,

30:16

just because a lot of people are getting a lot

30:18

of money to talk about that new

30:20

thing. Mhmm. It's the same with n o

30:22

o's. It's the same with new

30:24

residential or commercial real estate

30:26

properties. You want to talk about

30:28

the new thing because a lot of people are

30:30

paying for that. Because a lot of money is

30:32

already on the table, a lot of money

30:34

has already gone into building it. And the

30:36

only way to recover is to sell it aggressively. Mhmm. And so this

30:38

is not about investment. This is about

30:41

how you make your purchasing decisions in

30:43

your everyday life. Why would you buy the

30:45

latest shoes that Nike has

30:47

launched and is promoting aggressively?

30:49

Next year, a new technology would

30:51

come and the previous you will

30:53

be at a fifty percent discount. It's the

30:55

same with iPhone Pros.

30:57

If it's a sixteen thousand rupees more

30:59

expensive in US, why is it fifty thousand

31:01

rupees more expensive in India.

31:03

You know, you could probably buy an iPhone thirteen Pro

31:05

or you could buy an iPhone fourteen. So

31:07

most new things, the latest things

31:09

if you purchase Usually, it's a

31:12

bad decision, not just financially,

31:14

but also because the product

31:16

is not well reviewed. You don't have

31:18

any user review or user feedback. So,

31:20

you know, often a lot of

31:23

first generation car modules, they end up

31:25

with a lot of tech bugs. You

31:27

realize that there's some rattling here,

31:29

airbags are not inflating averages

31:31

down. And when the second updated model

31:33

comes, most of those problems

31:35

are ironed out. So in general, in

31:38

life, if you stay away from the

31:40

very latest innovation, you're

31:42

going to do well than you

31:44

currently are. Mhmm. But also, I think there's a lot of pressure to be the

31:46

first one. Right? I mean, whatever that is to

31:48

adopt the first one be ahead of the curve.

31:51

Right. If I may where sometimes

31:54

it also works in your

31:56

favor. Like, if you look at the people who

31:58

probably got on the whole

32:00

crypto head of the curve, like, when nobody

32:02

was talking probably the most money. Or

32:04

maybe not one can always argue that. But, like, if

32:06

you generally look at somebody who probably got them

32:08

that way early on

32:10

versus it became, like, a

32:12

mass thing. Right. See, there will

32:14

always be examples

32:16

and incidents where, you know, being

32:18

ahead of everyone worked. Yeah. But

32:20

but, you know, as a process, when

32:22

when you are looking to build a product This is

32:24

a shortcut. Like, if you're thinking of this as, like,

32:27

a overnight thing, then, you know, then

32:29

it's that's not how you should be thinking

32:31

probably. Yeah. So so if

32:33

you're looking to build a process that rapidly works

32:35

for you throughout your lives and without

32:38

exposing yourself to risk,

32:40

then I wouldn't be the first mover in any of

32:42

the categories. Also, we need to understand

32:44

that the people who really made

32:46

money in cryptos were the ones

32:48

who were really, really into it. As in

32:51

probably, they were developing the

32:53

ecosystem. So they were insiders. They

32:56

were not casual people

32:58

trying to hop on to someone's

33:00

invention and making money out of it. They

33:02

were actually entrepreneurs building

33:04

the ecosystem. To the rewards that they

33:06

got were actually rewards for

33:08

entrepreneurship, not investments. And

33:10

entrepreneurship is always more rewarding in

33:12

general because the risks are higher.

33:14

So I think that wouldn't be the

33:16

right example because most of them were

33:18

actually entrepreneurs. And they knew

33:21

probably hundred times more than we did. We did.

33:23

Like, another ground rule this

33:25

brings me is, and again, in

33:27

general, in life, but specifically in

33:29

investing, never venture out of

33:31

what you know. In the

33:33

sense that if I don't know so

33:35

in in in stock market, I've seen this a

33:37

lot, specifically with the younger generation, they would,

33:39

you know, the first stock and and when I do

33:41

these physical seminars, I ask

33:43

this, that how many of you owns to

33:45

this so there are five hundred people. And

33:47

I would ask how many of you own

33:50

Infosys? And probably half the hands would go up.

33:52

And then I asked them how many of

33:54

you use products by Infosys, any

33:56

product of Infosys. No

34:00

hand or probably if there is a bank

34:02

employee, a couple of hands go up. And

34:04

then I ask them, how many of you

34:06

own shares of butter? No hand goes

34:08

up and ask them how many of

34:10

you have at least one pair of footwear

34:12

in your household made by BARDA.

34:14

Almost all hands go up. So so

34:16

think about this We don't

34:18

invest in what's obvious. In what

34:20

we are using as a

34:22

consumer. But we want to

34:24

always go towards something

34:26

that promises stars. In fact, when I asked

34:28

a lot of people have invested in Tesla -- Mhmm. -- and

34:30

no one owns Tesla -- Yeah. -- in that

34:32

cloud in -- Yeah. -- so why go and buy Tesla? Mhmm. --

34:34

when you don't know about it as

34:36

a consumer. And and there's a

34:38

reason behind why why this happens,

34:40

because say someone is a doctor -- Mhmm. --

34:42

and working in a hospital

34:44

because of their of working in

34:46

an industry tree for a certain number of years, for a certain number of hours,

34:48

they understand and they know everything

34:50

that's wrong in that industry. Mhmm. And, you

34:52

know, that makes us sort of

34:54

unlike that

34:56

industry. That makes us deflect that industry -- Mhmm.

34:58

-- that if I ask a doctor, you know, how many pharma

35:00

stocks do you own? I don't invest in pharma

35:02

stocks. You know? You know what kinds of things

35:05

happen? You know? What what commissions are

35:08

exchanged in hospitals and things like that? I don't yet

35:10

invest in that.

35:12

Mhmm. And They know nothing about IT. Mhmm. I'm sure Will

35:14

mask mask practices happen in the IT industry

35:16

as well? It's our ignorance. Yeah.

35:18

Which makes us think that those industries

35:20

are better. But

35:22

we'll always end up doing better if we stick

35:25

to what we know. Because ultimately,

35:27

if no matter how much

35:29

animal reports I study, I

35:32

cannot know more than a hospital than a

35:34

doctor, but a doctor would never

35:36

invest in a hospital. How

35:38

unfortunate is that? And a doctor would

35:40

always invest in an IT

35:42

company. And the vice versa.

35:44

Yeah. That's really

35:46

interesting. And moment back, you're talking about learning and which

35:48

reminded me of I had a chat with

35:50

Naveen, who is a billionaire. And he said

35:52

one of those

35:54

important skill that you can really pick up is how

35:56

to learn about things. You know, when

35:58

you learn how to learn, I think

36:00

that's like, you know, that's

36:03

that that's the way, like you said, like, knowing the

36:05

ground rules and setting the foundation so that

36:07

you are ahead of most of the people

36:09

because you have the grasp of the

36:11

vocabulary of a lot of you know, stuff

36:13

generally. Right? So when you have the vocab of a lot of

36:15

things and it's it becomes much easier

36:17

for you to study what's

36:20

new in the research paper or whatever the studies that are coming

36:22

out so that you then are a little

36:24

ahead in terms of learning. From

36:27

that, like, for somebody, who,

36:30

let's say, maybe have

36:32

invested, like, maybe downloaded

36:36

small case or maybe grow or whatever, and

36:38

then just Okay. I see that these guys have curated this.

36:41

Let me put my money in place. This is on

36:43

you by the way. Yeah. So so

36:45

yeah. Whatever that is. Right? So okay. Because I

36:47

don't understand you. Funds. I don't understand this. And

36:49

let me just, like, you know, it looks like interesting way

36:52

because I don't have to

36:54

think about it. There are people thinking

36:56

for me.

36:58

Or maybe just put it out there. Now where

37:00

should one begin? The journey

37:04

of understanding managing their

37:06

money. Like, where does it begin? Like, what

37:08

are the first step? Okay. Now, that's a bunch

37:10

of I have never ever invested anything.

37:14

I look at getting into this

37:16

whole personal finance management

37:18

other than, like, I make money through

37:20

my job, through my business, whatever

37:22

that is, x amount comes to my bank, x minus y

37:24

is my monthly expense, and I

37:26

have zed amount that

37:28

I have as a spare, which I can prove up invest

37:32

or whatever. So how should, like, one really then start

37:34

if somebody has never done

37:36

anything like that? So, you know, we'll start

37:38

with what is the amount that you should invest.

37:40

Probably, that's

37:42

the one question. So I think in general, if you can manage,

37:44

try and invest at least twenty

37:46

percent of your monthly income, whatever

37:49

that is. If the higher

37:51

the better, but aim for twenty percent, okay, at

37:54

least. So so so that's a

37:56

good way to start. And then, you

37:58

know, keeping it very, very simple is

38:00

important because, you know, If you try

38:02

to invest in something which you're not

38:04

comfortable with, one, you'll

38:06

invest less than what you can because you're not

38:08

comfortable. And second, you'll

38:10

exit earlier. And, you

38:12

know, ultimately, whether that

38:14

instrument offers you fifteen percent or twenty

38:16

percent is not important. What's important

38:18

is if inflation is five

38:20

six percent, whether you are earning more than six percent or not, and

38:22

whether you can stay invested for ten

38:24

years or not. So if you find an

38:26

instrument that after all

38:28

the taxes, gives you a

38:30

return of more than six percent, and you

38:32

are so comfortable with that instrument

38:34

that you can stay invested for ten, twenty

38:36

years. That's the

38:38

right investment. For you, and that's the right instrument. So now

38:40

let's figure out what are those instruments. I

38:42

think for Indian's gold is one

38:44

such instrument. Which will

38:46

easily defeat inflation. And,

38:48

you know, thankfully, one instrument called

38:50

the Sovereign Gold Bond is something

38:54

that that actually gives you two point five percent of annual

38:56

return on your gold investments. So

38:58

basically, it gives you capital appreciation of

39:02

gold, which is historically being ten to twelve percent, and it

39:04

also gives you two point five percent

39:06

of interest on your investment.

39:08

So that gives you

39:10

returns of potentially mutual funds

39:12

and annual dividends of

39:14

your savings account. And

39:16

on top of that, if you buy it from

39:18

a d mat account, from the stock

39:20

market, you often get it at A45

39:22

percent discount as well. So imagine buying

39:24

gold at a five percent discount. No

39:27

making charges, no GST, it

39:29

has a majority of eight years, you can sell it

39:32

before that in the stock market. So because you're

39:34

selling before maturity is why you need to

39:36

sell it at A45 percent

39:38

discount and If you're a buyer, you

39:40

get that discount. But if you don't and you hold it for eight years, RBI

39:42

buys it back from you Kamra

39:46

any income that you make from that capital appreciation

39:48

is also tax exempt. So you you're

39:50

buying it cheaper, you're not paying GST,

39:53

no transaction taxes, And when

39:55

it's mature, you're also not picking

39:58

any capital gains tax. So I

40:00

think that is one

40:02

blind instrument that's good

40:04

for everyone. And, you know, if you add two point five percent on the eleven

40:06

twelve percent, it gives you as good as

40:08

returns as mutual funds and

40:10

stocks. And gold of

40:12

course, less risky than stocks because there's no

40:14

country risk involved. If tomorrow

40:16

something bad happens in India, gold prices are

40:18

not going to fall drastically, but stock

40:20

market will crash. So it's less

40:22

riskier, but it gives you equal

40:24

returns, which makes it a great

40:26

investment that everyone should go for.

40:28

And gold is naturally something you'll be

40:30

comfortable and you'll hold on. And you not

40:32

be reluctant to invest

40:34

as per your capacity. Rahul,

40:36

no matter how much I I brag

40:38

about how good stocks and mutual funds

40:41

are, the truth is you have one crew to invest, you'll

40:43

probably end up investing five lakh rupees. So

40:45

no matter how good those stocks and mutual

40:48

funds perform because you couldn't

40:50

allocate money in it, you will not create

40:52

wealth. So first question to

40:54

ask yourself is forget which

40:56

asset class gives how much return.

40:58

Which asset class are you

41:00

comfortable with? Because be it real

41:02

estate, gold, or stocks,

41:04

everyone in the long run is going

41:06

to defeat inflation if you do

41:08

it well. And if you buy a really bad real estate or bad

41:10

mutual funds or stocks, you're not going to do

41:12

it. But gold is one where

41:14

your decision making

41:16

is irrelevant. buy gold

41:18

and it's going to, you know,

41:20

perform the same way for the entire

41:21

world. So that is I really like it.

41:24

And second, Most

41:26

Indians are comfortable with real estate. What

41:28

percent of the investment do

41:30

you usually, like, allocate for

41:32

the world? As a

41:34

finance influencers specifically talking about

41:36

stocks and mutual funds,

41:38

most of my wealth is actually parked in real

41:40

estate. Okay? Yeah. So this

41:42

is ironic. But but I'll tell you how that happened, actually. So, you

41:44

know, coming from a middle class bank on my

41:46

my parents never had a house, my

41:48

grandparents never in their own house, and there

41:50

was this constant

41:52

discussion and and regrets

41:54

about past where, you know, we were getting

41:56

a good deal look here that that

41:58

home was available for and last, and we've

42:00

listed things like that. Mhmm. And

42:02

I've always heard my films and that film

42:04

talk about good cover.

42:06

Mhmm. So So probably, that is something that was

42:08

ingrained from childhood. So I

42:10

wanted to give that to

42:12

them. And I realized that

42:14

once they

42:16

realized how great it is to live in their own house is

42:18

when my family realized we should have a

42:20

farmhouse as

42:21

well. We should have a office as well and

42:23

and it never ends. Yeah.

42:26

And and, you know,

42:28

very honestly, my finances,

42:30

my father looks up pretty mostly

42:36

because because he was always into it.

42:38

He he, in fact, he taught me a lot

42:40

about money. It's it's

42:43

just that that he was into certain businesses where

42:45

he did not end up with a lot of spare

42:48

money to be actually be able to make those

42:50

investment decisions.

42:52

But now that he sees that I have cash flow, he

42:54

thinks now it's his time to take

42:56

out the money manager and manage

42:59

that. So he keeps hunting

43:01

for so he would ask me two things.

43:04

What's the balance in your savings

43:06

account? I'll take into this much

43:08

I have. Okay. I

43:10

have these real estate options in this

43:12

budget. Mhmm. And that is our hands up

43:14

ongoing. So I

43:16

think seventy, seventy five percent of Nami

43:18

network is actually is in real estate.

43:20

But but, you know, as I said --

43:23

Mhmm. -- like you said, like, that's what

43:25

you are comfortable with. Right? And not. That's

43:27

what my father is comfortable. Yeah. Yeah. But but

43:29

you know, even that works, probably my returns would

43:31

be two, three percent less.

43:34

But on the contrary,

43:36

when I ask myself, I find

43:38

logic in this that, okay, my

43:40

seventy seventy five percent of Network is

43:42

in real estate, but suppose that was not the case, would I

43:45

have been comfortable investing that large

43:47

quantum of money in the stocks? Probably,

43:49

I wouldn't have done

43:52

it. So in a way, even if I'm running two percent less, I'm allocating

43:54

thirty percent forty percent more capital. If

43:56

you allocate thirty percent more capital, at

43:58

two percent less, you are ending up

44:01

still much better than you would have.

44:03

So it's still better. So identify the

44:05

asset class you are comfortable with

44:07

and, you know, if it gives

44:09

you ten percent pretax returns or six

44:12

seven percent post tax returns. Any asset

44:14

class above it is a great

44:16

asset class stay invested, delete the app through which you have

44:18

invested, and forget about

44:20

it, and it's going to do well.

44:23

No. I think what

44:24

I also took from what you've

44:27

shared is the standard template that oh, you

44:29

know what? If you have hundred rupees to

44:31

spend, sorry, in risk, twenty to be should

44:33

go on mutual fund, thirty, and they will still can Look, you know.

44:35

Yeah. It looks great to me. Yeah. I

44:37

think because then you need to know about

44:39

all of this. Right? need

44:41

like, educate yourself for all of this. Also --

44:44

Mhmm. -- this rule is

44:46

great. Mhmm. But this rule should be in

44:48

the context

44:50

of this is how you should end up. Mhmm. So in your thirty,

44:52

thirty five years of earning -- Yeah.

44:54

-- when you when you're nearing retirement -- Mhmm.

44:56

-- this is how your portfolio should look like.

44:59

percent thirty percent goal, forty percent mutual fund

45:02

install. This is what it should eventually

45:04

look like. Mhmm. You know, if someone is

45:06

earning fifty thousand one

45:08

lakh rupees you're saving

45:10

twenty thousand, fifteen thousand. You you

45:12

will not end up investing five thousand in gold,

45:14

five thousand in real estate, five thousand in mutual

45:16

fund. It just doesn't work that

45:18

way. Yeah. So and also when you're a young,

45:20

newly married, probably living in a

45:22

rented apartment, looking to buy your own

45:24

apartment or

45:26

a house, Your priority is different. Your priority is to get

45:28

a home for your family. So

45:30

so in the beginning of your

45:32

career, this this allocation

45:34

will look execute

45:36

and which is okay. Until you have

45:38

this realization that, okay, we

45:41

have bought two properties For

45:43

the next ten years, I'll not buy any other real

45:45

estate. I'll invest in gold and stock.

45:47

And after fifteen, twenty years, you'll realize

45:49

it, okay. If you follow that discipline, you will

45:51

end up with this rule, thirty, forty,

45:54

thirty, somewhere around that. But it's not

45:56

essential to follow that every month, every

45:58

year. That's not how practical

46:00

life will. Because, you know, you might be

46:02

very, very disciplined and you

46:04

might follow all the

46:06

financial rules but you are not going

46:08

to enjoy gold every day. You're not going to

46:10

enjoy stocks and mutual funds every

46:12

day. But your family is going to

46:14

enjoy real estate from the day you

46:16

buy it. So even if it gives you two percent lesser returns,

46:18

but you are also consuming

46:20

it, that also has value. Now

46:22

whether that value is two percent

46:24

or not, is up to

46:26

you, but I don't believe in these

46:28

strict financial scientific rules. They I

46:30

think they ignore the practical reality --

46:32

Mhmm. -- and also the emotional side of

46:34

it. Absolutely. All of that is that

46:36

high emotional -- So --

46:38

people. And see, Indians I think a

46:40

lot of Indians actually

46:42

started making money

46:44

after the liberalization, privatization, globalization. So last twenty five,

46:46

thirty years. So I think our parents

46:48

generation is the first generation

46:50

for a

46:52

lot of majority of Indian families that actually

46:54

started making money true. Thirty,

46:56

forty years ago, sixty, seventy

46:58

percent of us were below

47:00

poverty line through the really poor. Yeah.

47:02

So, you know, when an entire country

47:04

is poor and is emerging out of

47:06

that poverty, It has

47:08

some natural inclination towards

47:10

instruments that give them that

47:12

security -- Yeah. -- and that uplifts

47:14

their life style in a daily way. Mhmm. So no matter how much you them

47:16

that, you know, invest in stocks

47:18

and mutual funds and this should be the

47:22

allocation, it doesn't impact their life on an everyday

47:24

basis. So if real estate gives you two

47:26

percent less, but improves

47:28

your life, I think it's a

47:30

right balance between enjoying it

47:32

now and saving for the future. It's the

47:34

perfect balance. And that balance has

47:36

certain value. So what I hear you say

47:38

is word of the amount that you have, then you can look at, like, okay. This is the kind

47:40

of ratio that eventually down the line,

47:42

I'll be I'll want, like,

47:45

maybe twenty percent of my wealth in gold or

47:47

fourteen whatever thirteen or whatever way that you

47:50

wanna distribute that. But

47:52

right now, maybe then you

47:54

focus on one and

47:56

maybe remaining of it a bit here and

47:58

there. Oh, absolutely. And then you'd go about doing

48:00

that and eventually maybe keep on

48:02

heading towards the kind of

48:04

ratio that you would want. Right. And the reason you

48:06

say that is because if you split

48:08

small amount to five different things, then it's

48:10

not substantial. Sure. Return that to you

48:12

guys. Is that what you Yeah.

48:14

Thanks. Yeah. Yep. That's one. And I

48:16

think, say, if you're saving ten

48:18

thousand and you are running you're allocating

48:20

two thousand to each of those

48:22

instruments. Yeah. After one year, you look back,

48:24

okay, I invested twenty thousand rupees. I'm earning

48:26

probably two thousand rupees in it. You

48:28

get demotivated. Because the result after a

48:30

certain number of years don't look

48:32

drastic enough. Mhmm. And and

48:34

sometimes after

48:36

certain intervals, results

48:38

is what keeps you going. True.

48:40

Whereas, you know, if you buy a property, people

48:42

of advantages

48:44

happen one, probably you take home loan or whatever happens, and because

48:46

real estate is not easy to

48:48

sell, you end up with a lot

48:50

of money actually being

48:52

parked. Otherwise, in any other asset class

48:54

if you would have invested, you would have taken out the

48:56

money, enjoyed the small profits, and

48:58

used it somewhere else. So because your

49:00

money was parked and you can't

49:02

sell and buy real estate every day,

49:04

your money is still there. It's

49:06

it's also a great

49:08

saving instrument. So it's an empty that's giving you twelve percent. Wouldn't

49:10

you take that empty? It's a great

49:12

empty because it's not easy to

49:14

break. Similarly,

49:16

you know, if you

49:18

buy physical jewelry. Now it

49:20

might have GST, it

49:22

might have making

49:24

charges, but Selling physical jewelry is against the

49:26

dignity of an Indian family. Mhmm. You

49:28

might sell sovereign gold bond tomorrow.

49:30

You read somewhere that I've put, then

49:32

you know, gold prices could

49:34

crash. The day you read gold

49:36

prices could crash, you would sell sovereign gold

49:38

bonds. You won't sell your jewelry. So

49:40

that stickiness

49:42

has value. So we need to understand the kind of person. If someone

49:44

is very, very disciplined and these don't

49:46

things don't impact his investment

49:50

behavior, You could stick with stocks and mutual funds and ups and downs for the

49:52

next twenty years. Great. Stocks

49:54

and mutual funds are a

49:56

great investment. But most

49:58

individuals are not like that. Mhmm.

50:00

We have so, you know,

50:02

even last ten years, I'm in

50:04

this field. But I don't invest in normal mutual funds that I can

50:06

sell tomorrow. I invest

50:08

all all my mutual fund investment

50:10

is actually in tax

50:12

saving mutual funds. Mhmm. And the

50:14

maximum tax benefit that I'm going to get is on

50:16

one point five lakhs. Mhmm. But I

50:18

invest lots of rupees and tax saving mutual

50:20

funds simply because I cannot exit

50:22

three years. Mhmm. So I make it difficult for myself to

50:24

exit. Mhmm. So I don't trust myself even

50:26

after ten years of reading finance,

50:30

understanding finance Because if you put yourself in a situation

50:32

where you are, you know, more likely

50:34

to act irrationally, you will

50:36

act irrationally. Mhmm. The right way to

50:38

go about

50:40

is don't put yourself in those situations. So by investing

50:42

in tax saving mutual funds, I'm never

50:44

putting myself in a situation whereby reading

50:48

a headline I might sell. I can't sell. No. I think that's a

50:50

that's a great tip right there. Like, where

50:52

you put in something and then let it

50:54

do the

50:56

work because you can't be very emotional about what's going on market. I'm like, Let

50:58

me do be very

51:01

you take this,

51:03

isn't like it. With the market sentiment. Right? And -- Mhmm.

51:05

-- that often we have seen -- Sure. -- that happening

51:07

in crypto, that happens a lot

51:10

of the time. Right? And we're we're losing our

51:12

patience. And

51:14

Also, like, what we discussed earlier, think from a

51:16

bit of a long term perspective, not like, you know, I

51:18

wanna be reached overnight. Right? You know,

51:20

that because that's not going

51:23

to happen. That's not going to happen. Right? And and also

51:25

the other thing that, you know, I wanted to

51:27

talk about you, brought

51:30

about, like, the people who are in there, let's say, work

51:32

for quite a few years now,

51:34

five, seven years, maybe who are in there, let's

51:36

say, let midies or early

51:38

thirties. Maybe somebody was looking at getting

51:40

married or so on and so forth.

51:42

So for the people in a

51:44

relationship, just getting married and stuff like that, how do

51:46

you see that sort of dynamics

51:48

between a couple, any

51:50

suggestions there on managing

51:52

money as a couple, like, what

51:54

works? Like, do you think both of them

51:56

separately to manage the wealth or both of them,

51:58

like, do a combined wealth management?

52:00

Any thoughts there? I think

52:02

what I really like about

52:04

finance is It's an art.

52:06

It's not a science. You know,

52:08

ARMR creates music completely

52:10

differently from how freedom does. Mhmm. Both of

52:12

them work. It's it's more like relationship.

52:14

What works for you? What works? This is what works for you. It's similar

52:16

with finance. Now some

52:18

people are very, I

52:22

would say, independent in the sense that they view their

52:24

finances in a certain way and I want to act

52:26

on their own. Some

52:28

consider this independence as

52:30

a sign

52:32

of not being close enough in a relationship and being

52:34

too protective about their money.

52:36

See, ultimately, you know, what

52:39

more important is that money shouldn't hamper

52:41

your relationship. I think relationship

52:44

takes prominence here, and then

52:46

whatever works for you doesn't hamper

52:48

your relationship, probably

52:50

you could either of

52:52

the spouse could completely handle it to it

52:54

the way they want, or probably they could

52:57

collectively hire an adviser and let

52:59

them bottom line is no matter how you

53:01

manage your money, it shouldn't impact the

53:03

quality of your relationship.

53:05

If you're mentally you know, happy in

53:07

a relationship. I'm sure you'll figure out many more ways to earn

53:10

your second income and your third income.

53:12

Whereas if if this creates

53:14

a friction, you

53:16

won't be even be able to focus on your primary job.

53:18

So I think this is very personal.

53:21

In terms of providing

53:23

stability to the family, not

53:26

about saving or planning. I think that's still

53:28

very personal. But in terms

53:30

of one thing that I've

53:32

noticed is if both

53:34

of them are working, the

53:36

ideal scenario is

53:38

one person is taking risks in his

53:40

or her career say joining the startup or

53:42

starting your own or, you know,

53:44

switching roles, switching profiles, and one

53:47

person has a really stable

53:50

income. I think that provides a good balance to the family and

53:52

security to the people you're dependent on.

53:54

That is one thing that's really important.

53:57

But who takes the decisions collectively

54:00

independently? I think it

54:02

won't hamper much. It won't it won't have

54:04

drastic effects. I think I

54:06

can understand if it's unless you

54:08

end up buying, you know, two flats

54:10

in the same building, that's that's really

54:12

bad concentration

54:14

of wells. But apart from that, it shouldn't matter much.

54:16

No. I really like the idea of

54:18

one person being stable and

54:20

the other person taking the risk, then you are

54:22

you are essentially

54:24

saving yourselves from things

54:26

going down the road. Right?

54:28

So that is really really great

54:32

practical tip for somebody who's trying to make that

54:34

sort of, you know,

54:36

thing. I I still

54:38

remember I probably

54:40

watching a movie or maybe I don't know

54:42

what that was like, you know. I I think it was a

54:44

movie where

54:46

husband says that, you know, hey, I wanna

54:49

leaves of, I've been, you know, not happy or

54:51

whatever, and then wipe ends up doing the same

54:53

thing, like and I don't know what if it was

54:55

a movie or stuff like that. Essentially, like, you

54:58

know, it's also about understanding and having that

55:00

communication on probably

55:02

saying that, hey, you know what? Right now,

55:04

I want to take this risk and I want you to support me

55:06

here. Correct. And maybe, like, hey. Now

55:08

I think that they are a bit

55:12

stable. Maybe probably then you can now go and take a risk. Having that planning

55:14

is very, very important. Having that conversation

55:16

without feeling that, hey,

55:18

you know what? I'm really

55:21

you know, giving a lot in this relationship. Like,

55:23

you just can have that conversation and probably that

55:25

can help. So that that I think is a

55:27

great great way to look at it. Right? So one of

55:29

the things that we see today, a lot

55:32

of our education on

55:34

finance is coming from

55:36

the influence that we have in social

55:38

media, the finance. Influences talking

55:40

about you should be part of

55:42

the share economy, don't buy

55:44

car, don't buy real estate, that's

55:47

really bad or whatever, like,

55:50

invest, you know, download this

55:52

app or the other or invest in this,

55:54

this is fancy, and so on and so forth. Right? So

55:56

there's a lot of While if we look

55:58

at from much wider

56:00

perspective -- Mhmm. -- the

56:02

jettled education

56:04

on finance, has

56:06

improved to a certain level yet.

56:10

Also, the chaos and

56:12

confusion, you know, there has

56:14

never been kind of curious and confusing because that people never bothered about So

56:16

while people have are starting to think about

56:18

it -- Mhmm. -- and it's way confusing.

56:21

Right? Mhmm. So what

56:23

are some of the, you know, like, resources

56:26

or what are some of the starting points

56:28

that you would recommend for

56:30

people to

56:32

Learning about the things. So yeah. I mean,

56:34

what you said is absolutely right. And, you know,

56:36

I think I think it's more like business news

56:38

channels in the sense that

56:40

most news channels are twenty four seven. And, you

56:42

know, just that compulsion of

56:44

showing something twenty four seven in a

56:46

way and shows that the quality cannot

56:50

be good. You know, it's you're choosing

56:52

to to to enter into

56:54

something, which by structure will not

56:56

allow you to put out quality

56:58

content. I

57:00

think In a lot of cases, influencers

57:02

assume or take that burden onto themselves that one

57:04

content, one piece of content every

57:08

day. Now that pressure that they've put on themselves, I

57:10

don't know how much of that is actually because

57:12

of way the algorithm works

57:16

versus how much they think, how

57:18

the algorithm works, but they put that

57:20

pressure on themselves. And once that pressure

57:22

is there, one piece of content

57:25

every day they'll have to talk about fancy things. They'll

57:27

have to talk about something

57:29

that shocks the viewer every

57:31

day. So that they retain that they they ensure that

57:33

the that the audience keeps coming back to them. Because, you

57:36

know, I make one video every ten,

57:38

fifteen days

57:40

And it's not that I don't want to. I don't

57:42

end up finding anything worth sharing

57:44

more than once in ten, fifteen

57:48

days. Specifically because I've been doing that for the last four years, so I've said

57:50

already a lot of things. So I can

57:52

understand someone making a piece of content every

57:54

day. What kind

57:56

of pressure? They feel so I think ultimately,

57:58

including me, all of

58:00

us, on most of us, on

58:02

YouTube, on

58:04

social media, more than finance experts,

58:06

PR entrepreneurs in a lot of

58:08

ways. No one has a lot of

58:10

proven track record of

58:12

making or public

58:14

money. True. One has that. True. It's just

58:16

that we reproduce knowledge

58:18

that assumed to be boring in

58:20

a more entertaining and in a more

58:23

bite sized way. That's our role. Basically, and

58:25

as long as people take us

58:27

like that, that we could be a

58:29

very good

58:31

starting point. You know, we tell you about something you

58:33

did

58:33

not know exist, and then go and find

58:35

your exam on rabbit hole and go deeper. You

58:37

don't do your research. Your financial

58:40

decisions based on what we

58:41

say. One, we are not qualified enough.

58:44

We are not experienced enough. We we

58:46

don't have that track record. To be

58:48

very honest, you know, if I was

58:50

managing ten thousand crore rupees today, I wouldn't be on YouTube. I would be

58:52

managing that money. That's that's

58:55

brutally honest, but And I think

58:57

that's true for ninety nine percent of the

59:00

influences I know. I and I'm not saying

59:02

they're doing the wrong thing. I think we

59:04

have still played a huge role in increasing financial

59:06

inclusion. But when you

59:08

start whether the fault is

59:10

ours or theirs, I don't know when we when we

59:12

try to Portray that you

59:14

can take actual serious

59:16

financial decisions based on what we

59:18

say, we are wrong. Or if you

59:20

assume that you know, whatever

59:22

we say you go and buy, you

59:24

are wrong. The audience is

59:26

wrong. So I think one great way

59:28

to start learning about money is

59:30

rich dad poor dad. Forever,

59:32

it will drill the concept of

59:34

money in your head, and the second

59:36

is learn to learn by Peter Lynch.

59:39

So start with these two

59:41

books, you know, in case of Peter Lynch, he's

59:43

someone who probably has the

59:45

best track record of managing

59:47

the mutual fund. For thirty years,

59:49

he managed the CSDR of thirty percent. He was managing billions of

59:52

dollars. He has

59:54

no incentive to write book

59:56

for the purpose of earning a few extra bucks.

59:58

That's not the purpose. When

1:00:00

I write a book, when someone writes

1:00:02

a book or creates a new video,

1:00:05

probably the incentive could be to

1:00:07

earn a little more. But for him,

1:00:09

that's not the incentive. So follow

1:00:11

people. You are sure that

1:00:13

they don't have any vested interest in

1:00:16

directly pitching you something.

1:00:18

Probably the pie is too small for them

1:00:20

or, you know, they've already

1:00:22

retired and made enough. So if Warren

1:00:24

Buffett writes a letter, he

1:00:26

has no interest in

1:00:28

trying to misguide you. He'll gain fifth, sixth

1:00:30

richest person on earth. Why would he

1:00:32

write something wrong and put his reputation at

1:00:34

stake? When Ratin Tata advises something,

1:00:37

when a political leader advises something, you might think

1:00:40

twice. There must be world bank

1:00:42

politics behind it. But when Ratin

1:00:44

Tata sees something about life

1:00:46

or finance, Why would he lie? Why

1:00:48

would he say something wrong? And can I buy him? You know, I can't.

1:00:50

No one can. No company can. So you

1:00:52

cannot make him say the wrong thing

1:00:54

by giving him money. Can

1:00:57

you make me say the wrong thing by giving me money? You don't know.

1:00:59

So selecting your sources carefully,

1:01:02

but to start with, reach that word

1:01:04

and learn

1:01:06

to one. First, thanks for being so honest

1:01:08

about this. But like you

1:01:10

said, in raising the

1:01:12

general awareness, and

1:01:14

talking with the things that probably you wouldn't have thought

1:01:17

of, the whole the creators

1:01:19

were, you know, creating content are

1:01:21

definitely playing, like, some really

1:01:24

important role there. But like you

1:01:26

said, take ideas from there, but

1:01:28

then go deeper and find the

1:01:30

people or the sources you

1:01:32

learn a real stuff about it rather than just

1:01:34

taking decisions based on a real that you

1:01:36

watch. You know, another

1:01:38

simple hack would be, say

1:01:40

if you think now,

1:01:42

paylators are cards are good. Yes. Because of

1:01:44

influencers are seeing it or

1:01:46

advertisers pay in three months. Mhmm. You would

1:01:48

ask why

1:01:50

Did Axcess Bank or HDFC Bank or ICAC Bank doesn't

1:01:52

have a binocular guard? These are pioneers.

1:01:54

They they have been innovating in the banking

1:01:57

space in the last thirty years If

1:01:59

now pay later was not just a fad in

1:02:02

something real, access or SDS or

1:02:04

ICAC would have been the first ones to bring those

1:02:06

cards out. You know,

1:02:08

why when we talk

1:02:10

about investing in US

1:02:12

stocks, Zero Hut doesn't offer that.

1:02:14

India's number one broker trusted,

1:02:16

good reputation, good track record

1:02:18

of being in compliance with the regulated

1:02:20

requirements. How could zero have

1:02:23

missed offering US stocks? They

1:02:25

haven't missed it. They have

1:02:27

intentionally chosen not to build

1:02:29

it. Why? There must

1:02:31

be something three problem. Why when we talk about

1:02:33

crypto apps? Suddenly these

1:02:36

coin based, and world, and every

1:02:38

and all these companies were those

1:02:41

Who did not have a track record?

1:02:44

Why? Why did no reputed

1:02:46

entity start a Crypto app?

1:02:48

There must be something they

1:02:50

were fearing. And if they are fearing who understand financial market

1:02:52

banks and brokers, they understand

1:02:54

financial market way more than

1:02:56

we do, you know, why are we

1:02:58

not cautious when they are

1:03:00

cautious? So I think any

1:03:02

product which you

1:03:04

find that Xeroza, HDFCI SA SA or access is not

1:03:06

offering is probably not a good financial

1:03:08

product. That's an interesting way to

1:03:10

look at

1:03:12

it later. Let's say if you and I'm gonna give you

1:03:14

a case. Right? So let's say we're

1:03:16

just starting

1:03:18

your financial journey

1:03:20

where, let's say, you've just started making money and

1:03:22

you've taken care of some basic stuff. You've,

1:03:24

you know, done the fancy phone

1:03:27

that you wanted to buy or whatever they wanted to do buy, and you

1:03:29

were like, oh, now, probably I need

1:03:31

to look at probably saving for

1:03:33

later, maybe for maybe ten years and stuff

1:03:35

like that. Now you're thinking about those things with the knowledge that

1:03:37

you have today. And if you're just starting out on

1:03:40

the whole idea of investing and, you

1:03:42

know, saving and so on and

1:03:44

so forth, what

1:03:46

are the first few maybe you can talk about, like,

1:03:48

the septimates and then, you know, what are the

1:03:50

basic things that I'll first take care of, and then

1:03:53

if I still have more, then this is what I'll do. So,

1:03:55

you know, we need to bifurcate

1:03:58

here that most of

1:04:00

us are worried about what happens if we

1:04:02

don't own. So you

1:04:04

first plan your investments around the

1:04:06

situation when or if you are not

1:04:08

earning. So what could be those

1:04:10

circumstances? One, after

1:04:12

you retire. What will happen? What how will it take care of your after

1:04:14

retirement expenses? That's a

1:04:16

problem. You buy a national pension scheme

1:04:18

for that. So that's a

1:04:20

blinder. There are a lot of retirement

1:04:22

calculators. You put in a

1:04:24

certain parameters and it

1:04:26

tells you what amount you need to invest

1:04:28

in NPS. And you start

1:04:30

investing in national pension scheme. Absolute no

1:04:32

brainer. What other

1:04:34

the circumstances could be death? If

1:04:36

if, god forbid, you die, what will happen to your family? So you

1:04:39

buy life insurance? Mhmm. What

1:04:41

next? What if you become

1:04:43

really, really illoped on

1:04:46

the life? What about the term insurance? Oh, all you buy is

1:04:48

pure term life. Mhmm. So you buy till

1:04:50

the age you think your children will become

1:04:52

independent. Mhmm. So if you

1:04:54

are thirty, planning to have children

1:04:56

in the next five years, you buy life

1:04:58

insurance till the time you will be sixty

1:05:00

five. By the time your children will be

1:05:02

thirty, most probably they'll be able

1:05:04

to earn. So you're saying term insurance?

1:05:06

Oh, absolutely term insurance. Nothing else. Okay. Any other kind of life

1:05:08

insurance is misselling. Mhmm. All you buy

1:05:11

is term insurance very, very cheap.

1:05:13

Mhmm. What do we end up doing is we're looking for return in the insurances.

1:05:16

Either that, or we are looking to cover our cover

1:05:18

ourselves for eighty years, ninety years.

1:05:22

And and by that time, your family will only

1:05:24

be independent. You you will not have any dependents.

1:05:26

So if so if that's the case,

1:05:30

you you buy life insurance till the time you think your children

1:05:32

will believe the age of thirty. Mhmm. You

1:05:34

don't because then the premium really rises.

1:05:36

Mhmm. Because for the insurance company also

1:05:39

the risk rises. Yeah. They're covering you for sixty five versus they're

1:05:41

covering you for seventy five, makes a

1:05:43

huge, huge difference too. So

1:05:45

you save that money in in your premium and you

1:05:48

invest that in mutual funds and enjoy that

1:05:50

right now. That

1:05:52

pension insurance. Yeah.

1:05:54

Yeah. Third one. Next is, what if you

1:05:56

become seriously ill? So you

1:05:58

buy health insurance for that?

1:06:01

So that's the third thing. Fourth and

1:06:03

health insurance is something you buy for the

1:06:05

entire family because anyone can fall in and you are

1:06:07

the earning member you're going to be

1:06:09

the financial burden. So health insurance, entire family, life insurance, only the

1:06:12

earning member. Fourth is

1:06:14

what if you are laid off.

1:06:17

So you keep eight to ten months

1:06:19

of emergency fund. And now, you know, where

1:06:21

do you keep this? Like, in your liquid

1:06:23

fund where Liquid fund could could work

1:06:25

or savings account with an auto sweep activated.

1:06:28

So what auto sweep does is it gives you

1:06:30

the returns of an f d and it

1:06:32

retains the flexibility of a

1:06:34

savings account. So that so now we have

1:06:36

covered all most scenarios

1:06:38

where you are not earning.

1:06:42

Now once that is sorted is when you think about

1:06:44

gold real estate and stocks. I

1:06:46

think that's a good framework for

1:06:50

everybody who's listening because what I've seen is a lot lot of people have invested

1:06:52

on mutual funds and, you know, cryptos

1:06:54

and whatnot of the world that this

1:06:56

fundamental is

1:06:58

not covered. Right? Got it. But which I

1:07:00

think is such a wrong way to go about it, because you haven't safeguarded the

1:07:02

worst that can happen. You

1:07:04

haven't based the safety net, and you

1:07:07

went there to invest. Right. Alright. This has been such

1:07:09

a great conversation. Any parting words

1:07:12

that you would like to share with the people who

1:07:14

are listening to

1:07:16

this conversation? You know,

1:07:18

I've covered this, but I would say this again, you

1:07:20

know, no matter how much I say it's never

1:07:22

enough, please don't invest in

1:07:24

anything you don't feel

1:07:26

comfortable with. Because in the short run, it might offer you

1:07:28

higher returns, but you'll never be able

1:07:30

to stay invested. You'll never be able to

1:07:32

allocate enough

1:07:34

capital And in the long run, you will feel it was better I

1:07:36

would have invested in this asset class where

1:07:38

I felt comfortable investing more. It's

1:07:40

about giving more time and investing more

1:07:44

it's never about getting much, Prudel, for

1:07:47

sharing some really, really interesting

1:07:49

perspectives. There were some,

1:07:51

you know, perspective that I

1:07:53

haven't paid attention too. So thank you so much for bringing that

1:07:55

in notice and for sharing.

1:07:58

And being, you know, authentic and

1:08:00

honest about you know, few things that that was really helpful.

1:08:02

And I hope there's a lot for someone who's

1:08:04

listening to this to take from this conversation. Thank

1:08:06

you. Pleasure. Thank you so much for

1:08:10

inviting me. Hey,

1:08:14

thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed listening to

1:08:17

this, I want you to

1:08:19

do two things per week. Number one, if you are listening

1:08:21

to this on Apple podcasts or

1:08:23

Spotify, subscribe to

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the podcast and give five star ratings. This help you

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attract more listeners to this podcast

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and take this information to

1:08:35

a wider audience. So that we can help

1:08:37

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1:08:40

least three

1:08:42

people in your network to hear this episode.

1:08:44

You never know, just by sharing this

1:08:47

episode, you can help them

1:08:50

transform their life. Be that person who helps other grow

1:08:53

in their life. Thanks again for

1:08:55

listening to this episode. I'll

1:08:57

catch you in the next now go out

1:08:59

there and do

1:09:04

something inspiring.