0:00

Mallory Irvin is a small town

0:03

girl turned internet and entrepreneurial

0:05

superstar. She's a

0:07

best-selling author and

0:09

online mega influencer. She's

0:12

also the founder of Living

0:14

Fully Co. I'd never felt

0:16

so worthless in my life

0:18

because you attached worthiness to

0:20

appearance. 100%. So many people

0:22

right now listening to us

0:25

are struggling with perfectionism. with

0:27

people pleasing. Yeah. Yeah, how

0:29

have you gone through that,

0:31

navigated it, overcome it? The

0:33

perfectionism almost killed me more

0:36

than the addiction. It crippled

0:38

me and it became something

0:40

that I almost lost my life

0:42

to and I ended up in a

0:44

treatment center for six months of my

0:47

life. These were prescription medications

0:49

that were being prescribed to me that

0:51

I had become dependent on and was

0:53

taking them in a way that were

0:55

not, was not prescribed. I just wonder

0:57

had you not gone through. One of

1:00

the hardest things of your life,

1:02

addiction and being in recovery for

1:04

six months and actually being stripped

1:06

down to learning to love yourself

1:08

or who you are, could you

1:10

be showing up as actually who

1:12

you are today having all this

1:14

success? A zero percent chance. Number

1:17

one, I wouldn't be alive today.

1:19

You don't think you would have

1:21

lived in another eight weeks. I

1:23

was that close to, like my

1:25

body was shutting down. What do

1:27

you say to... the person listening

1:29

right now who knows it's them right now

1:31

and no one else in their life does.

1:34

I want you to not be embarrassed about

1:36

the things that you went through especially those

1:38

things that are dark and a little seedy

1:40

and I feel a little sketchy to you

1:42

and that you don't want to say at

1:45

the PTA meeting it's me it's me to

1:47

have sitting by this beautiful peony arrangement

1:49

with my face on a book. That

1:51

is a powerful part of my story

1:53

because I think that people count themselves

1:55

out. Oh, their dreams because of things

1:57

like they went through in their past.

2:00

I want you to remember

2:02

that this is the face

2:04

of addiction. That this is

2:06

my office and I've got

2:08

six amazing girls at work

2:10

for me and my businesses

2:12

do millions of dollars in revenue

2:15

and this is my husband

2:17

and these are my kids and

2:19

this is what my home

2:21

looks like. But I also

2:23

want you to look at my

2:26

face and remember that like,

2:28

this is the face of addiction.

2:30

Mallory Urban, welcome to the

2:32

Jamie Kern Lima show! Who

2:34

you spend time around is so

2:36

important as energy is contagious.

2:39

and so is self-belief. And I'd

2:41

love to hang out with

2:43

you even more, especially if you

2:45

could use an extra dose

2:47

of inspiration, which is exactly

2:49

why I've created my free weekly

2:52

newsletter that's also a love

2:54

letter. to you delivered straight to

2:56

your inbox each and every

2:58

Tuesday morning from me. If

3:00

you haven't signed up to

3:02

make sure that you get

3:04

it each week, just go

3:06

to JamieKernlima.com to make sure

3:08

you're on the list and

3:10

you'll get your one-on-one with

3:12

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3:14

ready to believe in you.

3:16

If you're tired of hearing

3:18

the bad news every single

3:20

day and need some inspiration,

3:22

some tips, tools. Joy and

3:24

love hitting your inbox. I'm your

3:27

girl. Subscribe at Jamie Kern

3:29

Lima.com or in the link

3:31

in the show notes. Jamie Kern

3:33

Lima is her name. Everybody

3:35

needs Jamie from Lima and their

3:38

wife. Jamie Kern Lima. Jamie,

3:40

you're so inspiring. Jamie Kern

3:42

Lima. I am so excited today.

3:44

Mallory. Ervin is a small

3:46

town girl turned internet and entrepreneurial

3:48

superstar. She grew up on

3:50

a farm in Kentucky, the oldest

3:53

of 23 first cousins designated

3:55

to do big things and

3:57

that she is. She's a best-selling

3:59

author, an online mega influencer

4:02

through her podcast, YouTube, and

4:04

social media platforms. She not

4:06

only inspires millions, she's also

4:08

the founder of Living Fully

4:10

Coe where you can get

4:12

the best sweatshirts on the

4:15

planet. I happen to be

4:17

wearing them right now and

4:19

pretty much every day. That

4:21

is what I'm wearing. And

4:23

her new pajama and lifestyle

4:26

company called... in my Sundays.

4:28

She is also my dear

4:30

friend Mallory Urban. Welcome to

4:32

the Jamie Kern Lima Show. I'm

4:34

so excited to be on the

4:37

Jamie Kern Lima Show. I'm so

4:39

honored you're here. So happy to

4:41

be here. I have I'm so

4:43

excited first of all for our

4:46

conversation because you and I talk

4:48

for hours and hours and hours

4:50

and I just the way that

4:53

I feel when I talk with

4:55

you, the way that I am

4:57

inspired, the way that we connect,

4:59

and I just, I'm excited to

5:02

welcome everyone in to this conversation,

5:04

anyone who needs to feel less

5:06

alone, more enough, more inspired. And

5:08

I just want to ask you,

5:10

you know, right off the top,

5:13

so many women struggle with perfectionism

5:16

and people pleasing, and I

5:18

know... It's been an obstacle for me.

5:20

It's been an obstacle for you in

5:22

your life. And so many people, I

5:24

think, connect with you through really

5:27

watching you overcome it, cheering you

5:29

on through it. Can you talk about

5:31

your journey? Because so many people right

5:33

now listening to us are struggling with

5:36

perfectionism, with people pleasing. Yeah. Yeah, how

5:38

have you gone through that? Navigated it,

5:40

overcome it. Yeah, all that. Yes, I

5:42

love that you started with that. Because

5:45

of all of the things that happened

5:47

to me in my life, overcoming that

5:49

is really one of the biggest obstacles

5:52

that I had to overcome to get

5:54

to where I am today. Because perfectionism

5:56

is like, you know, it's like a drug. I

5:58

was addicted to it. And you said

6:00

it in my intro, you know, born

6:03

the oldest of all these cousins, the

6:05

oldest of all of my siblings. I

6:07

was destined, I think, to be a

6:09

perfectionist because I thought, I'm here, I'm

6:12

the example, I'm the oldest. I had

6:14

this amazing family that I wanted to

6:16

set a good example for and be

6:18

all that I could be. I was

6:20

born, you know, I was a singer

6:23

and I had this talent as a

6:25

young girl and I was on stages,

6:27

you know, immediately, as a six-year-year-old. I

6:29

was really primed to be a perfectionist.

6:32

And you know, Jamie, it wasn't crippling

6:34

to me until later in life. You

6:36

know, I did the Miss Kentucky pageant,

6:38

the Miss America pageant, and I think

6:41

pageants really multiply perfectionism because you are

6:43

literally standing on a stage and they

6:45

are judging the way that you look

6:47

and speak and walk and sing and

6:49

sing and are. And we signed up

6:52

for that, you know, which is, it

6:54

just makes anyone that is a perfectionist.

6:56

It makes them lean into that 10

6:58

times more I think. But when I

7:01

really feel like I overcame it was

7:03

when I went through my crisis point

7:05

in my life and my low and

7:07

it's something that I shared in my

7:09

book that took me a really long

7:12

time to share because I was a

7:14

perfectionist because that part of my story

7:16

I kept quiet for so long and

7:18

so I'd gone from this you know

7:21

little country girl with big dreams, you

7:23

know, achieving my dreams, some really big

7:25

stages and achieving all that I could

7:27

as a young person, setting this great

7:29

example for my family, achieving Miss Kentucky,

7:32

going to Miss America, being a runner,

7:34

but Miss America, doing the amazing race

7:36

with my dad three times, and I'd

7:38

achieved all these dreams as a 20,

7:41

young 20-something-year-old, and I started to crumble

7:43

under the weight of that because I

7:45

just felt like as a perfectionist. I

7:47

had to be this certain type of

7:50

person and I had to outdo like

7:52

everything that I'd done in my life

7:54

or else people were going to be

7:56

disappointed in me and I was disappointed

7:58

in myself and I had this point

8:01

in my life where I started to

8:03

have dependence on prescription medication that a

8:05

doctor had started to prescribe me so

8:07

that I could kind of keep going

8:09

at this pace this furious pace of

8:11

life keep achieving and doing and doing

8:13

more and it crippled me and it

8:15

became something that I almost lost my

8:17

life to and I ended up in

8:19

a treatment center for six months of

8:22

my life you know after I just

8:24

walked off the Miss America stage, you

8:26

know, doing all of these wonderful things.

8:28

And if you had told me when

8:30

I was standing on that stage, this

8:32

shiny, shiniest version of myself that

8:35

that was where I would end up in

8:37

a few years, I would have said

8:39

there's no, there's no way, there's no

8:41

path to that. But perfectionism is certainly

8:43

a path to that. And it's

8:45

something that I couldn't outrun,

8:47

I couldn't keep up with, and it

8:50

held me back in so many aspects of

8:52

my life. It kept me in a cage.

8:54

And what I experienced in going through

8:56

treatment, because it's never the

8:58

drugs and alcohol, you know, and

9:01

treatment is always what's underneath that, they

9:03

got you there in the first place. And

9:05

when we started digging up all of that,

9:07

like, why do you feel like this? And

9:09

why do you feel like you have to

9:11

be this version of yourself? And what if

9:14

you showed up as your real authentic true

9:16

self? You know, what would that look like

9:18

and feel like and be like? I emerged

9:20

six months later as the most

9:22

pure authentic non-perfectionistic version of myself

9:25

and that's when living fully which

9:27

is my whole message is what

9:29

my book is called and my

9:31

podcast is called and everything that

9:34

I talk about just like you

9:36

talk about worthiness and believing in

9:38

yourself. I talk about living fully and

9:40

to live the fullest life I could

9:42

no longer live as a perfectionist.

9:45

because you hold yourself back

9:47

from so much when you

9:49

live like that. And so, you

9:52

know, how I overcame it is

9:54

maybe different than a lot of

9:56

people. You know, you may not have

9:58

to go through. an addiction or

10:01

a crisis, but like it's making

10:03

a decision that, hey, it's the

10:05

realization that like people don't even

10:07

love the perfect version of you

10:09

more than they would love the authentic

10:11

version of you. Isn't that true? I

10:14

learned that after showing up as the

10:16

authentic version of myself, you know, your

10:18

moment was taking that, that's the first

10:20

time that I saw Jamie was taking

10:23

that makeup off on QBC and like

10:25

showing your skin. I can still remember

10:27

the reaction that I had to that.

10:30

And I saw as a person online

10:32

when I started showing up truly

10:35

authentically, talking about the

10:37

good stuff and talking about the

10:39

bad stuff, showing up with no

10:42

makeup and my hair wasn't brushed

10:44

yet and talking about the

10:46

things that I struggled with and

10:49

the non-perfect parts of myself.

10:51

That's when people liked me more. Yeah,

10:53

this is really, really big when you...

10:55

what you just said because we kind

10:57

of it's so easy to believe the

10:59

lie oh I've got to be perfect

11:01

to be loved or and for a

11:03

lot of us I've got to be

11:05

perfect to love myself to love myself

11:08

right and and in both cases you're

11:10

actually when you talk about living

11:12

fully you're actually living a lot

11:14

less fully when you're trying to be

11:17

perfect because you're not being all of

11:19

who you are and who you truly

11:21

are and you experience this like

11:23

firsthand how in that six months in

11:26

treatment, how did you get to

11:28

the point where you did the work

11:30

on perfectionism and what are some

11:32

of the things that you kind

11:35

of maybe either had to learn

11:37

or unlearn, I guess, in that

11:39

journey? Yeah, that's a great question

11:42

because, so when I first

11:44

went to treatment, I was still

11:46

like so delusional that

11:48

there was an issue at all that I

11:50

thought when I showed up that day.

11:52

and luckily like my parents were the

11:55

one that kind of were the ones

11:57

that facilitated like there is an issue

11:59

here we don't know because we've never experienced

12:01

addiction as a family. So they were

12:03

googling and asking and trying to figure

12:05

out and we were kind of like

12:07

throwing a hail Mary of like is

12:09

this the issue like what is the

12:12

problem because it just looked so different

12:14

for me I wasn't out on the

12:16

street doing drugs these were prescription medications

12:18

that were being prescribed to me that

12:20

I had become dependent on and was

12:22

taking them in a way that were

12:24

not was not prescribed but I was

12:26

still so delusional when I showed up.

12:29

I really didn't because it kind of

12:31

looked that way on the outside. And

12:33

I thought, okay, I'll show up to

12:35

this place and they're going to turn

12:37

me away and be like, well, she

12:39

doesn't need to be here. Not only

12:41

did they very quickly realize I need

12:43

to be there, but I did my

12:46

30 days there because most people, they'll

12:48

do 30 days of treatment. And at

12:50

the end of 30 days, you've gone

12:52

through withdrawals and all the things that

12:54

you need to go through, you know,

12:56

that your body needs to go through.

12:58

I would be pretty good to go

13:00

and they would send me home. And

13:03

I thought, you know, as the still

13:05

perfectionist that I was, I was like,

13:07

well, great, you know, this will give

13:09

me a little bit of street cred

13:11

and I can write a book about

13:13

it one day. And like, this is

13:15

going to be great, you know, for

13:17

the future of me. It's okay, this

13:20

blip on the radar. And my parents

13:22

came in and we sat down with

13:24

my counselor. We don't feel like you're

13:26

finished with the work here. We are

13:28

recommending extended care for you, which was

13:30

three months that I that they wanted

13:32

me to stay there longer. And I

13:34

was was floored by that because I

13:37

had seen people that had come in

13:39

that were literally on the streets using

13:41

heroin and things that I thought in

13:43

my perfect perfectionistic mind. were worse than

13:45

what I was doing. I was comparing

13:47

myself to other people and being like,

13:49

well, they're certainly going to let me

13:51

out. Like, they're not even keeping these

13:54

people. And they kept me the longest.

13:56

And it was in that three months

13:58

that turned into almost five months. that

14:00

I did the work on uncovering what

14:02

was underneath and why I'd become the person

14:04

that I'd become and why I was using

14:07

these things like I was using. And

14:09

you know they did something really crazy

14:11

kind of with me. They're very individualistic

14:13

at the place that I went

14:16

in their approach to how they

14:18

help people overcome their addictions and

14:20

the things that they need to overcome

14:22

that was underneath their addictions and

14:24

something that they did. with me,

14:27

I clearly, you know, coming from

14:29

pageants and caring a lot about

14:31

my appearance and what I looked

14:34

like, I had had these long

14:36

blonde hair extensions, like, my whole

14:38

life. I'd never gone a day without

14:41

hair extensions and full

14:43

makeup and... I remember I'd been

14:45

in extended care for a few weeks

14:47

and they said, well, you're doing really

14:49

well, so we're going to let you

14:52

have a hair appointment because I had

14:54

dark hair naturally and my dark roots

14:56

were growing out and all these extensions

14:58

were starting to fall. I was literally

15:01

physically starting to fall apart.

15:03

And I was like, oh, amazing. Awesome. So,

15:05

you know, I did all my thing,

15:07

filled out all my forms and this

15:09

big van, white van pulls up with

15:12

our treatment facility name on the side

15:14

and they drive me to the hair

15:16

salon. And I opened my book with

15:18

this story because it was very transformative

15:20

in the work that I did there. And

15:23

this story may sound kind of silly

15:25

to people, but it was one of the

15:27

most life shifting things that have ever

15:29

happened to me in my life. And

15:31

what happened was I walked into this

15:33

hair salon and, um... they were gonna

15:36

take my hair extensions out because they

15:38

were halfway falling out and you know for

15:40

10 years I'd never had them out of my

15:42

head and I don't think I really thought about

15:44

that and so they took all these extensions

15:46

out of my hair and I was

15:48

faced backwards so I wasn't faced towards

15:50

the mirror so they did that first

15:52

before they were getting ready to color

15:54

my hair and I can still remember

15:56

there was a silver tray next to me

15:58

and I can remember seeing her take

16:01

these permanent extensions out of my hair

16:03

and putting them on this silver tray

16:05

beside me. And when she turned my

16:07

chair around and I looked in the

16:10

mirror I had a I had an

16:12

out-of-body experience and my life like flashed

16:14

before my eyes. Really? It was very

16:16

bizarre and I was so emotional and

16:18

so... About my hair that my hair

16:21

was out my hair was like two

16:23

inches long underneath that It was all

16:25

different colors because I had two inches

16:27

of dark roots and it was and

16:30

I had just never seen myself like

16:32

that and I think also just everything

16:34

that I'd gone through I was a

16:36

different version of the person that I'd

16:39

expected to become and It was so

16:41

emotional and so visceral this reaction that

16:43

I had and then she went on

16:45

to say we're gonna color your roots

16:47

and I was already having this and

16:50

I was okay she colored my hair

16:52

and it ended up not going well

16:54

and so it was like orange and

16:56

white stripes and it was two inches

16:59

long and it was then she had

17:01

to cut it and I got back

17:03

in the white man and they drove

17:05

me back the treatment center and I

17:08

walked straight into my counselor and I

17:10

said I know you guys think you

17:12

know what you're doing with me and

17:14

with my case and I know you

17:16

guys know think you know what you're

17:19

doing with me because now I feel

17:21

worthless. I've never felt the way that

17:23

I've felt about myself. Now I want

17:25

to go out on the streets and

17:28

do the hard drugs. I don't even

17:30

want to like live anymore because I

17:32

felt so terrible about myself. And I

17:34

was like, I want to go home

17:37

and I almost left treatment that day

17:39

because it was such a, I'd never

17:41

felt so worthless in my life over

17:43

them taking out my hair extensions. Is

17:45

that because you attached worthiness to appearance?

17:48

100 worthiness to appearance? It was the

17:50

first part of my shell that they

17:52

were cracking. And I didn't even realize

17:54

Jamie that I was so attached to

17:57

my parents because I'd never been. like

17:59

attached to my parents growing up. I

18:01

was never like the prettiest one in

18:03

the room. I was always always I

18:05

always had a talent and that's always kind

18:08

of what I stood on and pageants

18:10

and like things around my looks was

18:12

never even anything that was in my

18:14

future. I really wanted to be a

18:16

representative for my state and I knew

18:18

talent was 35% of the score at

18:20

Miss America. I mean I'm five feet

18:23

tall like I didn't ever think I

18:25

was going to do a pageant. But

18:27

I think that something changed in me

18:29

that essentially like you know what our

18:31

parents called him is beauty queens you

18:33

know we were beauty queens and I

18:35

think that I had started to

18:38

really become attached to my

18:40

appearance and to the

18:42

person that I was and that

18:44

was the first real tick away

18:47

at that and it was like

18:49

such when I tell you like

18:51

my whole my whole body felt

18:53

something And I was so, I

18:55

never felt that worthless. And I

18:57

think, I share this story. And

18:59

I was afraid to open my book

19:01

with this because I was like,

19:03

I don't want women reading this

19:05

and be like, oh, really? I

19:07

can't connect with you. Like, you

19:10

had that moment over your hair

19:12

extensions. Like, I've gone through actual

19:14

trauma. That was actually like that

19:16

big of a low point for

19:18

me. And I think that so many women

19:21

attach our self-worth to our

19:23

appearance. And as we start

19:25

to age, and as we can't

19:27

really control what we look

19:29

like, and we start looking

19:31

different, and I think people

19:33

don't know what's happening to them,

19:35

and I didn't know that I

19:38

was becoming that attached to that

19:40

until they took that away from

19:42

me. And that was the first thing

19:44

that they did for me. I say for

19:46

me now, but like back then, I

19:48

thought it was the worst thing that

19:51

they... they did to me back in

19:53

treatment, but it was truly the thing

19:55

that like it revealed to me

19:57

something that was really crippling me.

20:00

and we started to work through it. And

20:03

then it was about a month later and,

20:05

you know, okay, I've gotten used to

20:07

the hair extensions being out, now I'm not

20:09

as attached to my appearance, but I

20:11

was still singing at this little chapel that

20:13

we had where everybody's families would kind

20:15

of come and it was just this moment

20:17

where I could set myself apart from people

20:20

because I still was able to show

20:22

my talent and be like, okay, yes, here

20:24

I am in rehab and here I

20:26

am looking like this different than I've ever

20:28

looked before. And I also gained 30

20:30

pounds in treatment. So I felt overweight and

20:32

like all of these things and I'd

20:34

kind of become okay with that. And they

20:36

said to me again, they said, we're gonna, you're

20:39

gonna take a break from singing and

20:42

chapel. And

20:45

that was really another shift

20:47

for me because then I

20:49

had nothing. I

20:51

felt so average and

20:53

like everyone else and like I looked different

20:55

and I was different. And I was like,

20:57

now you're gonna tell me, I can't talk

21:00

about being anything that I'd done, Miss Kentucky

21:02

or Miss America or the amazing race. You

21:04

know what's funny too is my third season

21:06

of amazing race was airing while I was

21:08

in treatment. And they let us watch TV

21:10

on Sunday nights and they would turn on

21:12

TV and like there I was and they

21:14

would like turn it off or they would

21:16

turn the channel because they like, they didn't

21:18

want me to talk about they wouldn't let

21:20

me cling to that old self

21:22

because they were doing so much work

21:24

of stripping that away and showing me

21:26

what was underneath it and making me

21:28

okay with what was underneath it. And

21:31

when they told me you are not

21:33

your achievements, you are not your

21:35

appearance, you are not your, do I

21:37

have something different than everyone else?

21:39

But like how do you believe you

21:41

are enough exactly as you are

21:43

without these other things? Because I had

21:45

the self -confidence. I believed that I

21:48

was enough even

21:50

going through what I was going through in treatment

21:52

when I could still say to people, but

21:54

I did this and listened to

21:56

me sing and you know, it

21:58

was the last - shred

22:00

of my old self and my

22:02

shiny shield that I was

22:04

holding out to other people. And

22:07

they really knew what they

22:09

were doing with me because

22:11

that's when I really did

22:13

the real work because I had

22:15

nothing left. And I just

22:18

felt what I think a lot

22:20

of women feel their whole

22:22

lives for the first time.

22:24

I felt that. And I didn't

22:26

want to live like that.

22:28

And they taught me in three months

22:31

of work that I did. I loved

22:33

the person underneath that without all

22:35

of those things more than I

22:37

loved the person that I went

22:39

into treatment as with all

22:42

of those accolades and achievements

22:44

and achieving all of those dreams.

22:46

I walked out of there, you know,

22:48

35 pounds heavier with two inch

22:50

long hair, not talking about any

22:52

of the stuff that I'd done,

22:55

not singing in the chapel. And

22:57

I loved that. That was the

22:59

closest to the person that I

23:01

want to be than I've ever

23:03

been in my life, was without

23:05

all of those things. This is

23:08

huge. I think so many of

23:10

us and so many people listening

23:12

think that to be enough, they

23:14

need their career. But who are

23:17

you without your career? Or they

23:19

need to be so and so's

23:21

mom. Or, you know, this. accomplishment

23:24

or this thing or this

23:27

contribution. Equally there are people

23:29

that think I have to

23:31

give and give and give

23:33

and serve and and that's

23:35

beautiful and also who are you

23:37

without all that? And just to

23:39

kind of hopefully for this

23:41

to hit home for for

23:44

everyone listening because because you're

23:46

talking about almost learning to

23:48

feel more fulfilled and learning

23:50

to not not wrap your

23:53

identity in any of those

23:55

things, whether it's your accomplishment

23:57

or what you're known for

23:59

or... needing to stand out and

24:02

be different from others or needing

24:04

to look a certain way and

24:06

that when everything was stripped

24:08

away and you literally were

24:11

at your lowest point then learning

24:13

to love yourself innately for

24:15

the innate beautiful soul that

24:17

you are is how you

24:19

actually then started to become

24:21

your most fulfilled. Yes it is.

24:24

And you know what was really

24:26

hard about it and that why

24:28

I think I... I lived that way

24:30

for so long, it's really hard when

24:32

the thing that you're attached to is

24:34

seen as a positive thing. A talent.

24:36

Or being Miss Kentucky and representing my

24:39

state. Because we're in a world where

24:41

everyone believes the same thing about

24:43

themselves. Yes. That if they can

24:45

only achieve that or look a

24:47

certain way, then they'll finally be

24:49

enough. Then they'll finally be happy.

24:51

So everyone's believing the same lie.

24:53

So then they're congratulating you. for

24:55

getting closer to that lie. Yeah,

24:57

and we're in this kind of

25:00

like whole thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

25:02

It's why for decades in my

25:04

life I thought, oh, if I

25:06

achieve enough, then I'll feel enough.

25:08

If I'm please enough other people,

25:10

then I'll finally feel enough other

25:12

people. Then I'll finally feel enough.

25:14

And I lost decades in my

25:17

life just achieving, achieving, or trying

25:19

to make everyone else happy. And

25:21

I just. make more people happen.

25:23

And it never felt you just

25:25

you never have perpetual cycle to

25:28

nowhere. It is a perpetual cycle

25:30

to nowhere. I love that. And

25:32

you know, I can even remember

25:34

Jamie like when I even after

25:36

when you're Miss Kentucky, you walk

25:39

into the room and you got a crown

25:41

and banner on you don't even have to

25:43

like that's the worst thing for perfection is

25:45

because it's like, oh, you don't know who

25:47

I am. Here you go right here on

25:49

the banner. Like look, here I am. The

25:51

Queen. I used to introduce myself. This is the

25:53

first clue to feeling probably unworthy. I needed them

25:55

to know in the first minute and a half

25:57

that I had done, Miss America, and the Amazing

25:59

Race. and I needed them to know

26:01

those things because I felt like that

26:04

was the reason that they would want

26:06

to continue the conversation for me. I

26:08

didn't feel like enough, you know, just

26:10

me and me and showing up and

26:12

I just had to have them know

26:15

those types of things, especially as I

26:17

got further and further from those things

26:19

that I saw as big shiny dreams,

26:21

as I stopped achieving bigger things, I

26:23

just started to feel worse and worse

26:26

about myself and just I was so

26:28

disappointed in myself. doing bigger and bigger

26:30

and bigger things. So when I would be

26:32

just talking to you if you and I were in

26:34

a room, I would need to tell you

26:36

all of those things about myself because

26:39

of the lie that the world tells

26:41

us. But I really believed that law.

26:43

I think this is such a big

26:45

challenge for every single one of us

26:47

to even today have a conversation with

26:50

someone, with someone. Maybe someone you don't

26:52

know yet. and the coffee shop wherever,

26:54

and try to not tell them any

26:56

of the things about you that make

26:58

you feel enough. Like, oh my child

27:01

is this, or I'm, you know, this

27:03

is my partner, or this is, and

27:05

actually just try to just be

27:07

you without sharing any of those

27:09

things. For most of us, it's

27:11

really hard. Really, really hard.

27:13

And it's almost like this

27:15

baby step toward worthiness, which

27:18

is just like. to learn to

27:20

first believe that we are enough innately,

27:22

because we are, we are, all those

27:24

other things are like distractions that make

27:26

us think we're not actually, but just

27:28

like try to have a conversation without

27:30

saying what you do without, and try

27:33

to have a conversation with another

27:35

person without asking them. about all

27:37

the external things. It is so

27:39

impossible hard. Yeah, a baby step

27:41

to worthiness. I love that. I

27:43

did this program in Nashville called

27:45

Onsite. It's like a little, you

27:47

know, three day program. It's just

27:49

like this cool, transformative, like very like

27:52

cool thing where it's called, what's

27:54

it called? Living centered. I was

27:56

like centering something. Yes. I should

27:58

have remembered the living one. And

28:00

that's a big thing there. They

28:02

were like, you can't say what

28:04

you do. Yes. And it was

28:06

really, really hard. And I'd already

28:08

been through all of this stuff,

28:10

like, and I already kind of

28:12

felt good in my skin, even

28:14

without people. And it was still

28:16

really hard. It was hard, too,

28:19

not to ask other people what

28:21

they did. And I'm like, why

28:23

do we qualify? Each other. Still.

28:25

On site. workshops in Nashville, Tennessee,

28:27

and then there's a place called

28:29

in San Diego called the Oaks.

28:31

Oh, yes. And I did on site

28:33

as well. They have so many

28:36

different. they actually have treatment and

28:38

recovery programs and then they also

28:40

have like leadership development and trauma

28:42

therapy. Yes. And I went there

28:44

for a week and it was

28:47

life changing. It was marriage changing,

28:49

life changing. And I remember that

28:51

so well what Mallory is talking

28:53

about is they you're there with

28:55

50 other people and they put

28:57

you in small groups but or

29:00

you could do individuals if you

29:02

want, but you're not allowed to say

29:04

what you do, and you're not allowed

29:06

to ask anyone else what you

29:09

do. And when I went, it was

29:11

for a week, and it was the

29:13

most, and it's wild how your brain

29:15

starts to start guessing what someone

29:17

does. And I, and to not

29:19

identify with those things, it's so powerful

29:22

because you can just exhale and not.

29:24

identify with those things, but it's also

29:26

just weird not to ask anybody. It

29:29

feels weird. Yeah, yeah, and then, um,

29:31

yeah, it's where our brain goes automatically.

29:33

Yeah, like, yes. And I wish that

29:36

it didn't, but it just does. It

29:38

is our nature to go back to that, to

29:40

go back to that, to go back because it's,

29:42

um, it's very, it tells you a

29:44

lot about a person, but it's like,

29:47

why can we not just learn the

29:49

person from talking to the person from

29:51

talking to the person? And, and feel

29:54

enough as who we are just is

29:56

really powerful that you didn't necessarily know

29:58

you wanted to or needed to do

30:01

that work, but what a gift that

30:03

that happened. in treatment. They knew what

30:05

they, they really knew what they were

30:07

doing with my case. Yeah. Because the

30:10

perfectionism almost killed me more than the

30:12

addiction. And you know it's wild. I

30:14

always believe in full circle moments. I

30:16

always believe our steps are ordered. Like

30:19

when I waitress to Denny's and the

30:21

kitchen was a disaster, they could not

30:23

get pancakes out on time. Customers would

30:26

leave. I get no tip. There were

30:28

so many things that happened and I

30:30

loved waitress saying... But I learned this

30:32

lesson that many years later when I

30:34

launched a company, I'm like, we've got

30:37

to get the operations, right? If the

30:39

operations aren't right, nothing else matter. And

30:41

I just like, I can look back

30:43

at these different experiences and I'm just

30:45

thinking of you in your life right

30:47

now and how you impact millions, millions

30:50

of women literally and people, but

30:52

millions of women turn to you

30:54

every day for friendship, for hope,

30:56

for inspiration. They support your businesses

30:58

your businesses. And I think. One

31:00

of the biggest reasons, and I'd

31:02

love to hear your thoughts on

31:04

this, if you agree with this

31:06

or not, but one of the

31:08

biggest reasons, not just that your

31:10

products are phenomenal, like you know,

31:12

I love them, but that you fully show

31:15

up the good parts, the bad parts,

31:17

the messy parts, the really, really real

31:19

parts, and people connect with you for

31:21

that. And I just wonder, had you

31:23

not gone through one of the hardest things

31:26

of your life, addiction and being

31:28

in recovery? for six months and

31:30

actually being stripped down to learning

31:33

to love yourself for who you

31:35

are? Could you be showing up

31:37

as actually who you are today

31:39

having all this success? A zero

31:42

percent chance. Number one I wouldn't

31:44

be alive today. That's how that's

31:46

how low of a point I was at

31:48

and how bad it was for me. I would

31:50

not, I do not think I would have lived another

31:52

eight weeks. I really don't. So like, I think it

31:54

really saved my life. Really? Had you not changed treatment?

31:57

Hunter, you don't think you... you would

31:59

have lived another eight weeks. I

32:02

was that, I was that close to, like

32:04

my body was shutting down. And

32:07

I, it saved my

32:09

life, which, you know, recovery

32:11

saves people's life first,

32:13

but then it changes people's

32:15

lives and then it

32:18

gives them a whole new

32:20

life. And that, you

32:22

know, if you had asked me before 2014, when

32:24

I walked into that treatment center, you know, it

32:26

was the best thing that ever happened to you

32:28

in my life, in your life. And I would

32:30

talk to you about being on the Miss America

32:32

stage and I'll talk to you about, like, the

32:34

moment that I was crowned in Kentucky, I wanted

32:36

to win so bad. And the moment they put

32:38

that crown on my head, it changed my whole

32:40

life. That was my moment, that was my, like,

32:42

taking your makeup off on QVC finally moment. That

32:44

was my, when they placed that crown on my

32:46

head, changed my whole life. I

32:49

said on my last day of treatment,

32:51

you stand up and you say something, I,

32:53

that was the best thing that ever

32:55

happened to me. That was the best thing

32:57

that ever happened to me and my

32:59

life was going to a treatment center. That

33:01

was the best thing that ever happened

33:03

to me. And

33:05

I always thought it would be a

33:07

part of my story that I was embarrassed

33:09

about and that I wouldn't share and

33:11

that I would just, like, let's stay in

33:14

the shadows. I would be thankful for

33:16

it, because it saved my life. But, like,

33:18

I would just, I wouldn't really talk

33:20

about it. You know, I would just keep

33:22

moving forward in this great life that

33:24

I have, really grateful that I'd been blessed

33:26

enough to have my life saved. But

33:28

it was the best thing that ever happened

33:30

to me. It was, and I thought

33:32

it would be the worst thing that ever

33:35

happened to me, and it was the

33:37

best thing that ever happened to me. And

33:39

whenever people come to Instagram or YouTube

33:41

or a podcast and they see me, or

33:43

the Jamie Karen Lema worthy event in

33:45

my feather blazer and when they see me

33:47

showing up joy -filled and happy with three

33:49

kids and you see my peony garden

33:51

in the backyard and you see the sweatshirts

33:54

and the pajamas, I want them to

33:56

remember that I spent six months in a

33:58

treatment center because I think that when

34:00

we think of people that have stories that...

34:02

that have a dark part or like, well, you know, she was addicted to drugs

34:04

at one point in time, I think that we just, it just, it's a kink

34:06

in the armor. And I want you to, I want

34:08

you to, I want you to remember that this is

34:10

the face of addiction, that this is my office,

34:12

and I've got six amazing girls at work for

34:15

me, and my businesses do millions of dollars in

34:17

revenue, and this is my husband, and these

34:19

are my kids, and this is what my

34:21

home looks like, looks like, but I also

34:23

want you look at my face, and remember

34:25

that like, and remember that like, and remember

34:27

that like, like, like, like, like, It's not

34:29

someone that's on the streets with

34:32

needles laying there that's homeless

34:34

person. It's not somebody that's

34:36

strung out that like you're

34:38

saying, oh poor pitiful them, it's

34:40

me. It's me too, sitting by

34:42

this beautiful peony arrangement with my

34:44

face on a book. That is a

34:46

powerful part of my story because I

34:48

think that people count themselves out

34:51

of their dreams because of things

34:53

like they went through in their past

34:55

and... I want you to not be

34:57

embarrassed about the things that you went

34:59

through, especially those things that are dark

35:02

and a little seedy and feel a

35:04

little sketchy to you and that you

35:06

don't want to say at the PTA

35:08

meeting, I want to keep reminding

35:10

people that that's part of my

35:12

story because I still feel worthy of

35:15

the things that I have today, even

35:17

though like I went to rehab after I

35:19

had worn the Miss Kentucky crown.

35:21

What do you say to the person listening

35:23

right now? who knows it's them right now

35:26

and no one else in their life does.

35:28

I was that person. I was very

35:30

isolated and oftentimes at the

35:32

end of addiction and and your addiction

35:35

piece can be something different. It

35:37

can be a mental health challenge

35:39

like maybe you're dealing with like

35:41

severe depression or maybe you are

35:43

in a relationship that's really bad

35:45

that you know you need to be

35:47

out of. Maybe you're in like a

35:50

dead-end career and you just feel like

35:52

hopeless about your life and say and if

35:54

you A, if you're at that point in your

35:56

life, I want to say, this is going

35:58

to be a really weak... thing for me

36:00

to say, especially to that person

36:03

in this state. But I want

36:05

to say it because I believe

36:07

it. Get excited because Rock Bottom

36:09

is the best place to build

36:11

the most incredible life. And if

36:13

you can walk out of this,

36:15

and if you can get through

36:17

this thing, you will have one

36:20

million times better of a life

36:22

than you did before you went

36:24

through this thing. These things, these

36:26

terrible, terrible things that happened to

36:28

us in our lives, usher us

36:30

into the greatest life than you

36:32

can ever imagine. And I think,

36:34

Jamie, you cannot access the incredible

36:36

life that, like, I feel like

36:39

I'm leading right now, this incredible,

36:41

like, I couldn't have accessed that

36:43

had I not gone through that.

36:45

So if you're a person that

36:47

nobody knows what you're going through

36:49

right now, and you're sitting there,

36:51

and you're thinking, I feel totally

36:53

hopeless, I hate my life, maybe

36:55

you're like I'm not gonna live

36:58

another six weeks, I will physically

37:00

die. If you can have the

37:02

strength and the courage... to make

37:04

it through this and walk through

37:06

this you can access the most

37:08

incredible life that you cannot imagine

37:10

the life that you can access.

37:12

But you oftentimes have to be

37:14

the person. I was very lucky

37:17

to have my parents and people

37:19

on the outside see that there

37:21

was something wrong and they stepped

37:23

in. But sometimes Jamie, people don't

37:25

have that person. And it is

37:27

the most daunting thing ever to

37:29

think about walking into a treatment

37:31

center or approaching a person about

37:33

help because there is a hard

37:36

part that you have to walk

37:38

through to access that beautiful life

37:40

on the other side. But my

37:42

lord, if I can just scream

37:44

one thing from the rooftops till

37:46

the end of my life, it

37:48

would be in a way like

37:50

you are the lucky one because

37:52

if you... If you have that

37:55

sort of low, you can have

37:57

this sort of life on the

37:59

other side. And it's

38:01

only accessible through going

38:03

through the blazing fire,

38:05

that is, walking through

38:07

addiction or walking through

38:09

leaving an abusive relationship

38:11

or walking through a really

38:14

scary career change or

38:16

a complete reinvention. What

38:18

you get on the other side is

38:20

so amazing. So I would say

38:22

to that person like... Remember

38:25

what's on the other side? Don't just

38:27

think about the pain and the hard

38:29

stuff and the embarrassment and all that

38:31

stuff, because that's all going to be

38:33

in the middle. But I want you to think

38:35

of the other side. Because it is so awesome.

38:38

It is so awesome. It is so awesome. And it

38:40

is the reality. If you walk into any

38:42

AA meeting, if you talk to anybody, like

38:44

look at all the people that we

38:46

look up to and that you've already

38:48

had on the Jamie Curly and the

38:50

Jamie and the Jamieonolina show. Every single

38:53

one of them has a story

38:55

of walking through the fire. Every single

38:57

one of them. I think when we're

38:59

in it, you know, so many people,

39:01

first of all, there's so many different

39:04

types of addiction. I think if you're,

39:06

you know... in a situation where you're

39:08

privileged enough to be able to find

39:11

treatment and enter it, even then so

39:13

many people feel so much shame around

39:15

it. They want to hide. They don't

39:18

want anyone to know they're addicted. They

39:20

worry about that. And I know you,

39:22

you know, being the oldest of 23

39:24

cousins, having all these external accomplishments, having

39:27

a family that, you know, is

39:29

so legacy-focused and proud and all

39:31

of these things and you dealing

39:33

with perfectionism. What would you say

39:35

just to the person? I think

39:37

Mallory Where you're at now to kind

39:39

of show that like what you're

39:41

part of what you're saying is

39:43

that You know, yeah, you might

39:46

go through embarrassment Yeah, you might

39:48

feel shame right now. Yeah, you

39:50

might be hiding it But would

39:52

you say your deepest sense of

39:54

connection and respect from others

39:56

and joy and and and

39:58

all the most beautiful things awaits

40:00

you on the other side.

40:03

Yes. Oh, I'm so glad that

40:05

you said that. Yes, that

40:07

is a fact. That is

40:09

a fact that we talk about

40:12

that people love you the

40:14

most for your authentic self and

40:16

all of these things over

40:18

and over. But I wanna tell

40:20

you the story of what,

40:22

how I told my family, essentially,

40:25

and what I was met

40:27

with. So, okay, we grew up

40:29

on this farm, so my

40:31

grandparents are in the middle and

40:33

we're all surrounding them on

40:35

this big, beautiful piece of property.

40:37

My whole life, I was

40:40

an example to these people. And

40:42

how was the singer? I

40:44

was gonna say, you're the hero.

40:46

You're the one, everyone says,

40:48

that's our Mallory. There's so much

40:50

more coming up in this

40:53

episode. You are not gonna wanna

40:55

miss it, but first, I

40:57

wanted to share this with you.

40:59

In life, you don't sort

41:01

the level of your hopes and

41:03

dreams. You stay stuck at

41:06

the level of your self -worth.

41:08

When you build your self -worth,

41:10

you change your entire life. And

41:12

that's exactly why I wrote

41:14

my new book, Worthy. How to

41:16

believe you are enough and

41:18

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41:21

you have some self -doubt to

41:23

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41:25

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41:27

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41:29

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41:31

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41:34

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41:36

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41:38

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41:40

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41:42

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41:44

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41:46

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41:49

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41:51

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41:53

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41:55

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41:57

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41:59

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42:02

and unshakable self -worth. Get your

42:04

copy of Worthy. Plus some amazing thank you

42:06

bonus gifts for you at worthybook.com or the link

42:08

in the show notes below.

42:10

Imagine what you do if

42:13

you fully believed in

42:15

you. It's time to find out

42:17

with worthy. Imagine what

42:20

would you do if you

42:22

fully believed in You. My

42:24

weekly free inspirational newsletter is

42:26

packed with tips and tools

42:28

to help you find out.

42:30

It's called One on One

42:33

with Jamie and it's delivered

42:35

right to your inbox each

42:37

Tuesday morning. It's a love letter

42:39

from me to you, from my

42:42

soul to yours. And I hope

42:44

it brings you the words and

42:46

messages you need at just the

42:49

right moment. Plus, when you're a

42:51

part of my free inspirational newsletter

42:53

community, you'll be the first to

42:56

get behind-the-scenes content, inspirational messages, and

42:58

be the first to learn about

43:01

upcoming events and more. It's the

43:03

place to be, and I sure hope you'll

43:05

join me there. So if you're not on

43:07

the list yet, you can sign up for

43:09

free at Jamie Kernlima.com or click the link

43:12

in the show notes below, and

43:14

here's to Bec becoming unstoppable

43:16

Together. And now more of this

43:18

incredible conversation together. You're the hero. You're

43:21

the one everyone says. That's our Mallory.

43:23

Yes. They were proud of me. And

43:25

I was a good example in every

43:27

single category, Jamie. You want to talk

43:30

about academics? I was valet touring in

43:32

my class. You want to talk about

43:34

like, you know, singing? I was on

43:36

every single stage in our hometown and

43:39

then like, Nashville. They were just so

43:41

proud. They were just so proud. People

43:43

coming up to you, you're a role

43:45

model for our kids. Face of the

43:48

night of Miss America, you could walk out

43:50

on your back porch, it's a farming community,

43:52

and that it's a live show, you know.

43:54

And obviously, you see the contestant going from

43:56

the next level to the next level. They

43:58

said that you could hear. and like that

44:00

my whole town supported me not just my

44:02

family but my family I have an incredible

44:05

amazing family that has always been very legacy

44:07

focused why are you here and what are

44:09

we doing in the world and we can

44:11

change the world and like you know we

44:13

did this thing where we would come together

44:15

once a year we would come together quarterly

44:18

and like have meetings and stuff but once

44:20

a year and we would come and even

44:22

though we lived on the same farm we

44:24

would go on this like trip together we

44:26

would all go to this place and we

44:28

would stay and we would play the same

44:30

slideshow of my grandparents like our family story

44:33

and our legacy what we stand for and

44:35

how many times my grandpa's like entrepreneurial endeavors

44:37

failed and like we all knew this story

44:39

but we would retell and we would talk

44:41

about like who we wanted to be in

44:43

the world and what we were doing in

44:45

our lives and you know we were kids

44:48

we were I was the oldest and they

44:50

started this when I was in college but

44:52

some of my cousins were five years old

44:54

and they're talking about legacy and like how

44:56

do you want to show up in the

44:58

world and like that's what kind of family

45:01

I came from and yeah we'd heard the

45:03

stories about my grandpa's failures in the entrepreneurial

45:05

business but he always succeeded and like he

45:07

always made it through and he never had

45:09

to declare bankruptcy and it was always like

45:11

here's our pain point in our family but

45:13

like here we are overcoming So

45:16

when I went to treatment, I was

45:18

very isolated from my family when things

45:20

were getting really bad. So I don't

45:23

think people knew how bad it was

45:25

getting for me. And so I went

45:27

to this program. And I was about

45:29

four months into the program or five

45:31

months into the program when our annual

45:33

family legacy thing was, trip was. And

45:36

it was this little like these sets

45:38

of cabins, called Evans Mill, it's in

45:40

Tennessee. We would all come together in

45:42

this great room and we would have

45:44

had different segments where we were talking

45:47

about different things. And they had decided

45:49

that what I was going to do

45:51

and my counselors and everything at treatment

45:53

were like this is going to be

45:55

really good for you, you should stand

45:57

up and you should talk about what

46:00

you're doing. going through to your family

46:02

and like my family knew that

46:04

I was in a program and

46:06

but I had literally never

46:08

shared a failure or I

46:10

don't think anyone in our

46:13

family had ever shared a

46:15

failure while they were in it

46:17

where it wasn't like the and

46:19

this is what happened from it

46:21

and this is on the other

46:23

side. So I so I had

46:25

to stand in front of my

46:27

family and all my cousins. all

46:29

my aunts and uncles are

46:31

advisors and like all the people

46:33

that I loved that loved me

46:36

and how to tell them what I

46:38

was going through and what I was

46:40

learning and treatment about

46:42

myself and how I'd gotten there

46:44

and I was so nervous to

46:46

to stand up there and it

46:48

was the first time I'd ever shared

46:51

any story of failure in

46:53

front of the people that like

46:55

I loved so much and I was

46:57

so afraid. that not that they

46:59

would be disappointed in me because

47:01

I knew the kind of family that I

47:04

was from and I knew that they would

47:06

support me in Whatever I had to go

47:08

through because we loved each other deeply

47:10

But I did feel like you know,

47:12

they wouldn't see me as the same

47:14

that it would kind of like erase

47:16

all the things that I'd done in

47:18

my past and that they'd see me

47:20

like a little bit different stood up

47:22

there I shared everything and

47:25

nobody really said anything and at

47:27

the end of it. and saying

47:29

like we're so proud of you

47:31

and I remember my uncle being

47:33

like man we're so proud of

47:36

you they're all wrestling coaches and

47:38

they were it was like they're

47:40

cheering me on you know we're

47:42

so proud of you and how

47:44

can we support you as a

47:47

family and what can we do

47:49

better to make it easier on

47:51

you and they loved me and

47:53

I was on an even higher

47:55

pedestal to them. Wow. And

47:57

it was one of those.

47:59

that I'll never forget. You always

48:02

hope that the people around you

48:04

will accept you for who you

48:06

are and the things that you

48:08

go through in life. But so

48:10

often, Jamie, people love you 10

48:12

times more for those things. Those

48:14

failures and those dark things and

48:17

those, oh, the things are just

48:19

so tough to bring to the

48:21

surface, they loved me even more

48:23

for it. And there have been

48:25

so many times in my families

48:27

that we've dealt with hard things.

48:29

since I went through that over

48:32

10 years ago and they come

48:34

they come straight to me and

48:36

they're like hey now you know

48:38

this is going on and you

48:40

know now I'm the person that

48:42

can help him yes other people

48:44

and I don't know why it's

48:46

human nature to believe that those

48:49

things will make people see us

48:51

in a worse light in a

48:53

different light certainly and it still

48:55

is a different light because so

48:57

many times it's proven over and

48:59

over and over and over and

49:01

over that people love you so

49:04

much more for showing up as

49:06

you are with all of those

49:08

things in tow on display. And

49:10

I'm so happy that what happened

49:12

to me happened to me because

49:14

I don't know that I ever

49:16

would have learned that lesson. Because

49:19

it's a lesson that I had

49:21

to be pushed into. I really

49:23

admire people who can just own

49:25

it and show up and be

49:27

like, I'm going to take this

49:29

chance and show my real colors

49:31

because I had to be pushed

49:33

into it because I was really

49:36

in deep. with needing to remain

49:38

the person that I thought I

49:40

needed to be for everyone else.

49:42

And I'm really glad that I

49:44

hit that rock bottom and I

49:46

was forced to, through this recovery

49:48

program, figure out this truth. Because

49:51

it is truth. It is the

49:53

truth. And everything in your life

49:55

right now proves that. Yeah, right.

49:57

You know, a lot of times

49:59

when we... have different types of

50:01

struggles or different types

50:03

of addiction and we might solve

50:06

it in one area it pops

50:08

up in another area. Oh yeah,

50:10

whackenole. You see people that you

50:12

know maybe have food addiction and

50:14

they do something about that or

50:16

but then all of a sudden

50:18

you know or they find a

50:20

solution to that and all of

50:22

a sudden they're gambling or they're

50:24

shopping or have you seen when

50:26

you went through recovery have you

50:29

has any type of like addictive

50:31

tendencies popped up in other areas

50:33

of your life and your journey?

50:35

Oh yeah 100% I struggle still

50:37

probably today with workaholism and I

50:39

think that like we just said in

50:41

the beginning of this podcast it's

50:43

so hard because the the brands

50:45

that I'm building are are it's a

50:48

motivational true like helping women brand

50:50

or it's these amazing sweatshirts or

50:52

it's these pajamas that like I'm

50:54

so proud of and it's all like really

50:56

good stuff yeah And I think

50:58

that I can get addicted to

51:01

that just like I was addicted

51:03

to drugs and alcohol. Just like

51:05

before that, I was addicted

51:07

to achievement. Just like before

51:09

that, I was addicted to being

51:11

a role model and example to

51:14

my cousins. I certainly think that

51:16

cross addictions are a real thing.

51:18

And I think that at the root

51:20

of all that, it is just accepting ourselves

51:23

for who we are and where

51:25

we are and... I think as a

51:27

person that like has an addictive

51:29

personality too, like I'm always looking

51:31

for that hit somewhere. And sometimes

51:34

when I achieve something in my

51:36

work or like something really works

51:38

out, it can feel the same in my brain.

51:40

So I think that I know that going

51:42

through what I went through and recovery

51:44

I learned a lot so I noticed now

51:47

when those things are happening when

51:49

I was unaware before and I

51:51

can do something about it. But

51:53

also think that life... is a constant,

51:56

we need to be like

51:58

looking at our. lives at all

52:01

times and being like what are the

52:03

things that I need to change because

52:05

it's not just like okay I went

52:07

to treatment now I'm good for the

52:10

rest of my life or I worked

52:12

at one time and now I'm fit

52:14

you know it is a constant that's

52:16

what living fully I think is it

52:19

is constantly choosing to no I want

52:21

to live I don't want to live

52:23

here I want to do I can

52:25

do this better I can be a

52:28

better parent or be a better person

52:30

in my business, I can be a

52:32

better boss, I can be a healthier

52:34

person, I can do that thing less.

52:37

It's a constant re-awareness and yes, cross-addictions

52:39

are real things. I was actually in

52:41

treatment with a lady who had been

52:43

sober for like 20 or 30 years

52:46

and she was there for a shopping

52:48

addiction, you know? And she was sober

52:50

from drugs and alcohol still. And it

52:52

was a really fascinating thing to see

52:55

and I really appreciated her sharing her

52:57

story because it made me aware that

52:59

like, you know, when you let go

53:01

of one thing, it's like you want

53:04

to grab onto something else. And yeah,

53:06

I think it's a natural tendency of

53:08

the human being for sure. What role

53:10

does faith play in your life? Gosh,

53:13

faith has been. at the top of

53:15

my pyramid in the very worst times

53:17

in my life and in the very

53:19

best times in my life. When I

53:22

was at the very end of the

53:24

road with right before I went to

53:26

treatment, I used to run, I lived

53:28

on music row in Nashville, Tennessee, and

53:31

the church that I went to was

53:33

two miles from where I used to

53:35

live, and I used to say the

53:37

rosary, and I would run, say the

53:40

rosary, all the way to this church,

53:42

and I would go into this church,

53:44

and there was nobody in this church.

53:46

And I was really, really struggling. And

53:49

I couldn't really pinpoint what it was.

53:51

I didn't see it as like this

53:53

is addiction, but I felt so hopeless

53:55

and so far from the person that

53:58

I knew I wanted to be. And

54:00

I was really disappointed in myself and

54:02

what I'd become after like how

54:04

I'd been raised and all these

54:06

things that I achieved in my

54:08

life. I was just really disappointed

54:11

in what I had become because like

54:13

I couldn't, I just couldn't, I

54:15

couldn't achieve anymore. I couldn't,

54:17

I couldn't keep a job and I

54:19

felt like my family was starting to

54:22

pull away from me because I

54:24

was like, becoming unpleasant to be

54:26

around. I was just a shell

54:28

of a person and I used

54:30

to go into this church and

54:32

I would like candles and I would

54:34

kneel down in front of like the

54:36

altar and I would like, I can

54:38

remember like it would be in the

54:40

summer because I went to treatment in

54:43

the spring and I would like press

54:45

my arms down on the floor and

54:47

it was like this marble floor and

54:50

it was like so cold and I

54:52

would just be, I would just say like

54:54

I'm sorry. And will you take it

54:56

away from me? Will you take it away

54:58

from me like the need to take this

55:01

prescription medicine? Will you just help me like

55:03

be the person that I was? And I always

55:05

thought that like how God would answer that prayer

55:07

for me would be I would wake up in

55:10

the morning and I wouldn't want to take these

55:12

pills anymore that I knew were like destroying

55:14

my life. And what I realize now is

55:16

his answer to my prayer was going to

55:18

that treatment center. But I mean faith was

55:20

so big for me even then and faith

55:23

was a... It was different because I saw

55:25

God as I knew he was loving and I

55:27

knew he was going to be the person

55:29

that was going to help me make the

55:31

difference, but I also felt like he had

55:34

to be disappointed in me too. Because I

55:36

knew all the gifts that I'd been given,

55:38

my singing voice and my family, I knew

55:40

those were things that he had given me.

55:42

You know, those were blessings that I was

55:44

given, and I really believed you what

55:46

they said, you know, that to whom much

55:48

is given of much is required. And I knew

55:50

that I'd done great things in my life, but

55:52

I also knew that this was not the way

55:54

that like, this was not where I was

55:56

meant to be, squandering all the gifts that

55:59

I'd been giving. like living my life like

56:01

this like isolating myself for my family and

56:03

I was so far from the person I

56:05

knew I want to be and then I

56:08

knew that I felt like God wanted me

56:10

me to be but what I know now

56:12

I don't I don't feel like he was

56:14

ever disappointed me I feel like that was

56:17

part of my journey because where I'm at

56:19

now and like the book and the podcast

56:21

and the way that people see me and

56:24

the face of addiction looking a lot different

56:26

to a lot of people that watch me

56:28

on the internet I know that was all

56:30

part of the plan and God ushered me

56:33

into that part of my story, just like

56:35

he placed a crown on my head, just

56:37

like he had me born in Morganville, Kentucky,

56:39

and living on that little farm being an

56:42

example to my siblings and cousins working at

56:44

Bud's Country Corner and being this little country

56:46

kid. It was all part of my story.

56:48

And so faith was a clung to faith

56:51

then. Faith saved my life, but faith like

56:53

orchestrated me into this part of my journey

56:55

too. And it allowed me to be... a

56:57

story in the back of people's minds when

57:00

they're going through addiction or when they're struggling

57:02

with something or where they're standing in front

57:04

of a goal and they're like there's absolutely

57:07

no way someone like me could achieve that

57:09

because this happened to me. They can look

57:11

at me and remember my story and be

57:13

like, oh my gosh, you know that blonde

57:16

girl that lives in Nashville tend to see

57:18

on the internet? That like, I think she

57:20

went to rehab for six months after she

57:22

did Miss America like, I, um, you know,

57:25

my faith, my faith, And then now my

57:27

faith is, you know what I say? Every

57:29

single day, I'm so thankful for my life.

57:31

I say it to my husband like every

57:34

day that we wake up in this beautiful

57:36

home and I look outside and I see

57:38

this peony garden that I planted and I

57:40

see this swimming pool and I see these

57:43

three kids running around the backyard and riding

57:45

motorcycles. I just, I feel, not because I

57:47

have to be like, here's a gratitude journal

57:50

and I want to do gratitude so I

57:52

can feel. overwhelming, overflowing gratitude every single day

57:54

for my life. I do every single day

57:56

and I say to my husband, I can't,

57:59

can you believe? it that we got

58:01

here because we also overcame so many

58:03

things in our relationship we broke up

58:05

so many times he dated me an

58:07

act of addiction. Like the week that

58:09

we broke up was the week that

58:11

things crashed and burned for me and

58:14

then I ended up going to treatment.

58:16

You know he saw me at the lowest of the

58:18

lowest, like can you believe it? What

58:20

the Lord has given us? And

58:22

we've been through different sorts of

58:25

challenges where we've had to cling

58:27

to our faith. We've had five

58:29

pregnancy losses. We've been through

58:31

challenges in our relationship before

58:33

we got married and we

58:35

struggled financially when we first got

58:37

married and you know there were

58:40

just so many things that We had

58:42

to just really trust the Lord and

58:44

and like faith has played so many

58:46

different roles for me, but I say

58:49

thank you a lot. Mm-hmm. Now I just

58:51

say thank you and I can't believe it

58:53

and I and I say a lot because

58:55

I've been given a lot now and

58:57

I know that I have a lot

58:59

And I pray the prayer that with

59:02

all of this, that you, this abundance,

59:04

that you have given me, do

59:06

with it what you want me

59:08

to do with it. Because I know

59:10

you gave it to me for a

59:12

reason. I mean, I look at how

59:14

much you give and do and are

59:17

to other people and just how

59:19

much like you give away. And

59:21

I, that's the next piece of

59:23

it. I pray a lot. I

59:25

want, I want my faith to

59:27

God me because Why did you give

59:29

me this? Like what is it that

59:31

you'll have me do with this? That's

59:33

the next, that's what my faith is

59:35

for me now, too. Do you ever

59:37

doubt that God exists? Not one,

59:40

not one single time in my whole

59:42

life, have I doubted? No. I always

59:44

knew. Even when I was, I don't want

59:46

to say frustrated or mad,

59:48

but like I can still

59:50

remember sometimes like when hard

59:52

things would happen, I remember

59:54

my first pregnancy loss. Or like when

59:57

my sister, my sister lost a baby, it

59:59

was like a... her miracle baby and she lost

1:00:01

a baby he was five weeks old. There

1:00:03

have been times where like I was at

1:00:05

the Vanderbilt Children's Hospital when my sister, it

1:00:08

was during COVID that she lost her son

1:00:10

and we knew he had a hard defect

1:00:12

and he would have to have a couple

1:00:14

surgeries after he was born. And there are

1:00:16

times in my life where, you know, we

1:00:18

didn't never get to, we never got to

1:00:20

visit him in the hospital because it was

1:00:23

right when COVID started. It was March of

1:00:25

2020 and they would not let us come.

1:00:27

and be there with them going through this

1:00:29

terrible terrible thing their child being on life

1:00:31

support and is he going to make it

1:00:33

is he not so we only got to

1:00:36

go on the day that we knew they

1:00:38

were going to disconnect those machines and he

1:00:40

was not going to be we were meeting

1:00:42

him we knew that we met him that

1:00:44

was the day we were saying hello and

1:00:46

goodbye all at the same time and there

1:00:48

are moments like that I can remember being

1:00:51

in that bathroom at Vanderbilt Children's Hospital and

1:00:53

I went on to my knees and I

1:00:55

was like why in the world would you

1:00:57

take a baby Because

1:01:00

it was just, you know, you don't

1:01:02

understand why things that hard to have

1:01:04

to happen to people that good. And

1:01:06

there are times in my life where

1:01:09

I ask him questions like that and

1:01:11

like, dang it, like, why in the

1:01:13

world would you do this God? It

1:01:15

doesn't make any sense. What's happening right

1:01:18

now? I don't see the good in

1:01:20

this and I know you're good. And

1:01:22

now, it's been four years since that

1:01:24

happened. And I can see the reason

1:01:27

for that, even though it was really

1:01:29

terrible and really hard, but I never

1:01:31

doubted that he existed. And Jamie, I

1:01:33

feel lucky for that, because I feel

1:01:36

like ever since I was a child,

1:01:38

I'm from a very faith-filled family. But

1:01:40

I always felt the presence of God

1:01:42

so strongly and saw so many signs

1:01:44

that he existed and just felt that,

1:01:47

that I feel like that was a

1:01:49

gift that he gave me, that I

1:01:51

never doubted that he existed. I never

1:01:53

doubted that he existed and I would

1:01:56

be around people that really questioned their

1:01:58

faith. And I would feel so lucky

1:02:00

that I'd always felt that so strongly.

1:02:02

And it wasn't like a blind faith.

1:02:05

I see some people have a blind

1:02:07

faith, just like, this is what I'm

1:02:09

told, and this is what. But I

1:02:11

felt it in my bones. Like you

1:02:13

knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew

1:02:15

it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it.

1:02:17

I felt it. I would always ask for signs and

1:02:20

stuff ever since I was a little

1:02:22

girl. And I would have some of

1:02:24

the most insane experiences. And I knew

1:02:26

that even in really hard times, like

1:02:28

when I almost lost my life to

1:02:30

addiction, when I watched my sister lose

1:02:33

a baby, when I went through pregnancy

1:02:35

losses, when I went through really hard

1:02:37

things in my relationship, and in my

1:02:39

career, I just, I always knew he

1:02:41

existed. And then once I started

1:02:43

going through hard things, and seeing what

1:02:45

would happen on the other side, and how

1:02:47

much greater things would be on the other

1:02:50

side, and realizing that I had to go

1:02:52

through that thing. Then when I was in

1:02:54

the middle of these hard things, that were

1:02:56

happening to me. I could say something that

1:02:58

I never thought that I couldn't say in

1:03:00

the beginning, which was sometimes through grit and

1:03:03

teeth, but thank you God for what I'm

1:03:05

about to go through, because I know it's

1:03:07

about to change my life. And I said

1:03:09

that, you know, we just lost a pregnancy

1:03:11

pretty far along, and I'd have a

1:03:13

DNC, and it was terrible. We'd seen the

1:03:16

heart beating, and that baby was fine, and,

1:03:18

you know, all these things. And it was

1:03:20

really hard. even on the day where

1:03:22

we showed up at that sonogram and there

1:03:24

was no more heartbeat and I knew gosh

1:03:26

I'm gonna have to walk this road again

1:03:29

I still I had faith in God and

1:03:31

I remembered the other side of all of

1:03:33

those losses that you know I lost four babies

1:03:35

before I had my daughter and when I

1:03:37

look at my daughter I would go through

1:03:39

every one of those pregnancy losses

1:03:41

once a year every single year to

1:03:44

get that child. I would and I

1:03:46

think that loss and hard things that

1:03:48

happened in our lives Especially

1:03:50

if we can see what happens on the

1:03:52

other side. It's so much easier in a

1:03:54

way. Losses are always hard. It's still

1:03:56

hard to go through terrible things, but

1:03:58

you can know that. that like God

1:04:01

is bringing me something greater on

1:04:03

the other side. He has every

1:04:05

single time. He has. So

1:04:07

beautiful. To have that faith even

1:04:09

when you're going through stuff that

1:04:12

does not does not make sense,

1:04:14

doesn't have an explanation for it.

1:04:16

Nothing anyone else can say. No.

1:04:19

And just to have that

1:04:21

undeniable faith through it. Yep.

1:04:23

Undeniable faith. And you know what

1:04:25

my sister had that too. And

1:04:28

she was the one that was like really

1:04:30

in it. And I can still remember like

1:04:32

after that happened and they took him off

1:04:34

of life support and we came back to

1:04:36

their house and like they had to walk

1:04:39

out of a hospital without a baby. And

1:04:41

she sat on her couch and she sat

1:04:43

on her couch and she sat on her

1:04:45

couch and she sat on her couch and

1:04:48

she looked at her couch and she looked

1:04:50

at me and she looked at me

1:04:52

and she looked at her couch and

1:04:54

she looked at her house and she

1:04:56

said, do you feel like he's like

1:04:58

a... grown-up angel or baby angel in

1:05:00

heaven like she was still She didn't

1:05:02

lose her faith. It was really hard.

1:05:04

She was balling crying and she

1:05:07

was upset and she was sad,

1:05:09

but She did not doubt that

1:05:11

the Lord was still up there

1:05:13

Mm-hmm, and then she saw her baby

1:05:15

up there And I think that

1:05:17

people's experiences are

1:05:19

different at the end of loss

1:05:21

because some people are like screaming

1:05:24

at God and some people lose

1:05:26

their faith I think that

1:05:28

different people's journeys are

1:05:30

different and I just hope that they

1:05:33

can find their way back to faith

1:05:35

that you can, because I do think

1:05:37

that like you can be really angry

1:05:39

at what's happening and you can question

1:05:41

your faith and come back around to

1:05:44

it. I think that people's journeys

1:05:46

are different. Maybe you don't feel

1:05:48

like I did and you haven't

1:05:50

always felt the presence of God.

1:05:52

But I also feel like... This is something that

1:05:54

I heard someone say to me when I was a really

1:05:56

little girl and I always prayed for it. I had a

1:05:59

priest one time and he... said you need to

1:06:01

pray pray for hunger for God, pray

1:06:03

for hunger for God and I was

1:06:05

like what an interesting prayer and I

1:06:07

started praying that when I was probably

1:06:09

10 years old like I pray for

1:06:11

a hunger for God and I pray

1:06:13

to feel his presence in my life

1:06:15

yeah and I always did and I

1:06:17

think that maybe some people aren't praying

1:06:19

that prayer and I think that's a

1:06:21

really great prayer to pray. Good to

1:06:23

start. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. With, um, does

1:06:25

Kyle, your husband Kyle, share the same?

1:06:28

Unliable faith as well? You know, he

1:06:30

had a different faith journey. He was,

1:06:32

so I was raised Catholic by a

1:06:34

big Catholic family that always we were

1:06:36

in church every Sunday and was really

1:06:38

solid. He was raised, his mom was

1:06:40

Baptist and his dad was Catholic and

1:06:42

he would alternate churches. And I think

1:06:44

he has a really interesting faith perspective

1:06:46

because... Here's what I think. I think

1:06:48

it does not matter what religion you

1:06:50

are. I think if you believe in

1:06:52

something greater than yourself, like it is

1:06:54

all, we are all I think trying

1:06:57

to get to the same place, it's

1:06:59

just all different roads. And so he

1:07:01

saw something that I didn't have the

1:07:03

opportunity to see, which was two like

1:07:05

totally different faith walks, because there is

1:07:07

a big difference, you know, in the

1:07:09

way that a Catholic mass is said

1:07:11

and the way that a Baptist service

1:07:13

is. And he... Whenever we got married,

1:07:15

he made the choice to become Catholic

1:07:17

because we wanted to raise our kids

1:07:19

in the same church because I think

1:07:21

that there is beauty in that, but

1:07:23

I also think that it is nice

1:07:25

to streamline that and to go to

1:07:28

the same church on Sunday just as

1:07:30

part of the community. But he is,

1:07:32

he always says he's, and I'd had

1:07:34

not just my husband, but people that

1:07:36

I had like dated before whenever I

1:07:38

was younger, that always was. said, you

1:07:40

know, your faith has made my faith

1:07:42

stronger. And he always says that to

1:07:44

me. He's like, the way that I

1:07:46

am, and he prays as much or

1:07:48

more than I do now, and he

1:07:50

prays with our kids as soon as

1:07:52

we get in the car on the

1:07:54

way to school, and you know, I'll

1:07:56

be like, gosh, I haven't been praying

1:07:59

with him later, I've been forgetting, he's

1:08:01

like, I... We pray on the way

1:08:03

to school. Sometimes they pray for their

1:08:05

pet turtle that is no longer living

1:08:07

that they don't realize. But you know,

1:08:09

goofy little things, but like he,

1:08:11

it has lifted his faith.

1:08:13

Yeah. You're, you have three

1:08:15

kids. You're the breadwinner of

1:08:17

the family. Yeah. Kyle stays home.

1:08:19

He does. Which for a lot of

1:08:22

people believe that's the hardest job

1:08:24

in the planet. It's way harder.

1:08:26

Way harder. How has that been

1:08:29

for you? Being the breadwinner

1:08:31

both just in your marriage. Yeah,

1:08:33

in what we learn societal norms,

1:08:36

societal norms Yeah, that some would

1:08:38

say are antiquated, but they are

1:08:40

still around how has that been

1:08:43

and how is that? Yeah, yeah,

1:08:45

they're definitely still around. Yeah, I

1:08:48

think especially to men and you

1:08:50

know what I think I have

1:08:52

the I think God perfectly designed

1:08:55

my husband for me because Kyle

1:08:57

had a big valet company

1:08:59

that he started and owned

1:09:01

when we first started

1:09:04

dating. He had 80 employees

1:09:06

and He had a big business that

1:09:08

he had built and he when

1:09:10

he started to see my success

1:09:13

He his business He so

1:09:15

he backed out backed out

1:09:17

backed out back out of

1:09:19

his business started editing my

1:09:21

YouTube videos and he truly

1:09:24

slowly over time He completely

1:09:26

gave up his career to Be

1:09:28

a background role in mine and then

1:09:30

to raise our children so that so

1:09:32

that we could still be very hands

1:09:34

on in raising our children He is

1:09:37

still the one that takes our kids

1:09:39

to school every day. He still watches

1:09:41

our children picks our children up packs

1:09:43

their lunches I You know, it's not

1:09:45

like I'm working eight to nine p.m.

1:09:48

Like I'm still around a lot and

1:09:50

like they have both of their presence

1:09:52

parents parents present in their lives, which

1:09:54

is such a blessing, but to be a

1:09:56

man and to Choose that.

1:10:00

is a really rare and amazing thing. And

1:10:02

I think that makes him even more

1:10:04

powerful as a husband and a father

1:10:07

and a man. And I think it's so

1:10:09

cool to think about our kids talking

1:10:11

about one day, you know, in 15

1:10:13

years. Well, my mom worked, you know,

1:10:15

building this, whatever it is that they

1:10:17

talk about, building this pajama brand or

1:10:20

selling these holiday sweatshirts that we used

1:10:22

to be in the photo shoots and

1:10:24

all this stuff. And my dad stayed

1:10:26

home with us. I think that's a

1:10:28

really powerful thing for them to

1:10:30

see. Cool journey. And we want

1:10:32

to believe that we're past this

1:10:35

societal norms, but I agree

1:10:37

with you, Jamie. We're not,

1:10:39

because I think a lot of men

1:10:41

would not do, a lot of men maybe

1:10:43

wouldn't have the opportunity to

1:10:46

do what my husband does. Maybe

1:10:48

a lot of men would like

1:10:50

to stay home with their kids,

1:10:52

but I think that... It

1:10:55

is just such an amazing thing

1:10:57

that he gave up everything, just

1:10:59

like my mom did, raising us.

1:11:01

She never had a career.

1:11:03

She never had, raising children

1:11:05

was her identity, was her

1:11:08

career for 20 years of her

1:11:10

life or more. But yeah, my husband

1:11:12

gave up everything to take a

1:11:14

step back and not back, we shouldn't

1:11:17

say back, we should say forward and

1:11:19

to do the hardest job. And like

1:11:21

I did. I do two jobs, I

1:11:23

do two jobs, so I do all

1:11:25

of this stuff and I'm also like a

1:11:27

part-time stay-at-home parent. Being a

1:11:30

stay-at-home parent is 100 times harder

1:11:32

than building a company that's doing 10

1:11:34

million or 100 million dollars in revenue.

1:11:36

It is harder, it is a harder

1:11:38

job. And I'm not just saying that

1:11:40

for the pat on the back for

1:11:42

the moms and the dads that do

1:11:44

it, it is actually harder. And you

1:11:46

also don't know, like, like, yeah, I see

1:11:49

the immediate return on my business. You don't

1:11:51

know how these kids are going to turn out until,

1:11:53

and for 20 years. So you're like putting in all

1:11:55

the work and nobody's saying thank you. You don't know

1:11:57

how it's going to be saying thank you. And ain't

1:11:59

nobody paying you. You know, you can beat

1:12:01

up every day. It's a- Does it

1:12:03

ever with Kyle or just with your

1:12:06

marriage, does it ever present any challenges?

1:12:08

Because of like traditional- Yes, rarely, but

1:12:10

yes. I think that there are times

1:12:12

where Kyle looks at- the reward of

1:12:14

what I'm doing and looks at the

1:12:17

reward a little bit of what he's

1:12:19

doing and he's just like I'll come

1:12:21

home from work sometimes and he's just

1:12:23

like Man, it looks so that's so

1:12:26

fun like what you were doing and

1:12:28

he's like every once in a while

1:12:30

He'll say like I miss working and

1:12:32

I miss building something and he's like

1:12:35

I know I'll do it again one

1:12:37

day, but he misses it Yeah, and

1:12:39

sometimes like days at the end of

1:12:41

the day And I think that like

1:12:44

if you're a working parent that's listening

1:12:46

to this and you have a stay-at-home

1:12:48

parent sometimes whenever I come home and

1:12:50

when he's like quiet or he feels

1:12:53

like removed or he feels like He's

1:12:55

exhausted and he's like not saying anything

1:12:57

to me or maybe he's like short

1:12:59

and he's like I am just over

1:13:01

simulated and totally exhausted from these three

1:13:04

kids Yeah, I think that that is

1:13:06

a challenge that a lot of people

1:13:08

because we're always like well What did

1:13:10

I do because we're always thinking about

1:13:13

ourselves and it's just like I just

1:13:15

want everything to be okay, but like

1:13:17

learning that and remembering that and remembering

1:13:19

that and remembering that He's had a

1:13:22

really long, hard, over-stimulated day. Like, maybe

1:13:24

I have a bad day at work,

1:13:26

but it's just so obvious of what

1:13:28

it is. Like, this happened, and that's

1:13:31

why I feel this way. I don't

1:13:33

think it is with a stay-at-home parent.

1:13:35

It's just like, I just feel like

1:13:37

all the life that was in me

1:13:39

this morning was sucked out by all

1:13:42

of these children. I gave it all

1:13:44

way. Yes. That's a challenge and something

1:13:46

that I've had to learn and something

1:13:48

that I've had to learn and meet

1:13:51

and meet with, and meet with grace

1:13:53

and understanding. and understand that sometimes his

1:13:55

tank is empty at the end of

1:13:57

the day. And maybe he doesn't even

1:14:00

know why, but it's because of all

1:14:02

those children. Yeah. Yes, yes. You know,

1:14:04

I think if we are blessed and

1:14:06

privileged enough to have a situation where

1:14:09

a partner wants to

1:14:11

be the same parent,

1:14:13

you know, I have to tell

1:14:15

you, Mallory, in most of

1:14:17

my friendships, It's

1:14:19

the woman that's working and

1:14:22

their partners stay at home.

1:14:24

Yes, and they would not

1:14:27

trade it for anything. Like

1:14:29

they love knowing like someone's

1:14:32

there, everything's okay, they can

1:14:34

travel, they can like different

1:14:37

things like that and that

1:14:39

their kids are in such

1:14:41

great. hands and it things

1:14:44

are changing really really rapidly

1:14:46

you know but we're still

1:14:48

in that in that point

1:14:50

where it's typically been a

1:14:52

little different in the past and

1:14:55

but yeah every woman I know

1:14:57

who has who they're they're their partners

1:14:59

stay at home. They love it. They

1:15:01

love it. It's the best situation because

1:15:03

you're still being raised by a parent

1:15:05

but like I get to go and

1:15:07

build and do and be and I

1:15:09

also get to come home and be

1:15:11

a present parent and like choose my

1:15:13

own schedule. Yeah. You said a while

1:15:15

ago but it is a privilege. to

1:15:17

be able to stay, to have a

1:15:19

parent to stay at home. And that

1:15:21

is something we do not take for

1:15:23

granted and we don't think is an

1:15:25

automatic thing. And also, like, that's so

1:15:27

interesting that most of your friends

1:15:30

are that dynamic. But I also

1:15:32

think you living in California and

1:15:34

in LA and it's a different

1:15:36

world. Also, yeah, and in New

1:15:38

York, because in Nashville, Tennessee, it

1:15:40

is certainly the other way around,

1:15:42

I think, you know, geographically, it's

1:15:45

just different. different places, but

1:15:47

I feel like I'm in the minority

1:15:49

and I feel very lucky. But you know,

1:15:51

there are days that I'll take my kids

1:15:53

to a trampling place because I still am

1:15:56

able to work at my own schedule and

1:15:58

I'm so fortunate to do that. I can

1:16:00

still play a part-time stay-at-home mom

1:16:02

roll. And there's sometimes Jamie where,

1:16:04

and it's so funny that I

1:16:07

feel like this, but I do,

1:16:09

that we'll go to the trampoline

1:16:11

place, I'm sitting there, and I'm

1:16:13

watching the mom that I know

1:16:15

is a full-time stay-at-home mom that

1:16:17

doesn't work. And I watch them,

1:16:20

like, pull the snacks out of

1:16:22

full-time roll, and that is her,

1:16:24

she is so in it. And

1:16:26

sometimes I envy that. Because my

1:16:28

sister is also pretty much a

1:16:30

full-time stay home parent and she's

1:16:33

like man it's so fun what

1:16:35

you're doing and I'm like yeah

1:16:37

but like you just go to

1:16:39

the park every day like that's

1:16:41

all so fun sometimes I'm just

1:16:44

like am I doing it wrong

1:16:46

like you just I just question

1:16:48

it just like Kyle's like oh

1:16:50

sometimes I miss yeah yeah you

1:16:52

know two things first before before

1:16:54

I ask this question that I

1:16:57

just know it's going to be

1:16:59

so meaningful to every person listening

1:17:01

to every person listening And it's

1:17:03

something that your grandpa said. But

1:17:05

before I get to that, I

1:17:07

just want to say to everyone

1:17:10

listening, I just have to say,

1:17:12

and I'm not just bragging on

1:17:14

my friend, but even before Mallory

1:17:16

and I were good friends. You

1:17:18

make the best sweatshirts in the

1:17:21

world on living fully co. Her

1:17:23

sweatshirt sell out in minutes. So

1:17:25

if you ever want to grab

1:17:27

one, make sure you're like ahead

1:17:29

of it on the sale. I'll

1:17:31

link everything in the show. Her

1:17:34

pajamas in my Sundays, her pajamas

1:17:36

are better than the moat and

1:17:38

literally. It's proven how they're made

1:17:40

better than the most expensive pajamas

1:17:42

in the market. And you're not

1:17:44

paying the most expensive price, but

1:17:47

they are phenomenal. So I'm going

1:17:49

to link those as well. Mallory

1:17:51

and I did a really, really

1:17:53

fun sweatshirt collab. But everything sells

1:17:55

out in seconds. So if you

1:17:58

want to get her sweatshairs, definitely

1:18:00

check out. And then of course,

1:18:02

her book lives. fully is amazing

1:18:04

and her show as well, her

1:18:06

podcast. So so many things I'm

1:18:08

in the link below, but how

1:18:11

I would love to kind of

1:18:13

wrap this up on is something

1:18:15

that when you shared it, it

1:18:17

just shook me to my core

1:18:19

about this idea that every single

1:18:22

one of us, we might have

1:18:24

ideas, we might have

1:18:26

goals and dreams. And

1:18:28

if we are blessed enough to

1:18:30

still have time, how that puts

1:18:33

life in perspective, and can

1:18:35

you share, I believe it

1:18:37

was, Christmas Day, and then

1:18:40

the day after Christmas,

1:18:42

with your grandpa, who

1:18:44

he was, what he shared, what

1:18:46

he shared, that when I heard

1:18:48

you share it, just my whole

1:18:50

being. I felt it in every

1:18:52

ounce of my being. Yeah,

1:18:54

he was so amazing. So. He

1:18:57

lived in the center of our property.

1:18:59

And I grew up seeing my grandpa

1:19:01

every day was such a big

1:19:03

part of my life. He was

1:19:05

so amazing. He lived this beautiful,

1:19:07

incredible life. He had the hardest life

1:19:10

of anyone that I've ever heard.

1:19:12

He watched his dad die in a

1:19:14

fire in front of him when he

1:19:16

was 12 years old. His siblings, almost

1:19:18

every single one of them, like he

1:19:21

watched pass away. Like just so

1:19:23

many terrible things happened to

1:19:25

him. And he was the

1:19:27

most joy-filled, incredible, amazing person

1:19:29

that built the most beautiful

1:19:31

family that I've ever seen

1:19:33

in my entire life. So he

1:19:36

was my first example of adversity

1:19:38

can just make you stronger

1:19:40

and better and brighter and more

1:19:42

beautiful. And he, so my grandpa,

1:19:44

like until the very last moment,

1:19:47

he was 89 years old, I

1:19:49

think 89 years old when he died.

1:19:51

And Jamie, when you asked me to

1:19:53

do the event. Whenever I speak

1:19:55

I usually share my story

1:19:57

of recovering over him perfectionism.

1:19:59

all the stuff and I had this

1:20:02

really this just gut feeling that I

1:20:04

need to talk about my grandpa and

1:20:06

it was like four weeks after he

1:20:08

had died and my whole team was

1:20:10

like are you sure you're ready to

1:20:12

talk about this and I just felt

1:20:15

very compelled and the piece that you're

1:20:17

talking about that I talked about at

1:20:19

the worthy event was so Christmas Eve

1:20:21

in our family is just this beautiful

1:20:23

big amazing thing and he was not

1:20:25

doing well this past Christmas Eve. Like

1:20:28

we knew that he was nearing the

1:20:30

end and it happened like really fast.

1:20:32

He was on oxygen like almost all

1:20:34

the time. He was still in his

1:20:36

home and everything but everybody kept saying

1:20:38

you know maybe we should just come

1:20:41

one family at a time to not

1:20:43

put too much stress and strain on

1:20:45

him and and he was like absolutely

1:20:47

not we're having the party because he

1:20:49

was still totally like with it even

1:20:51

though he was at the end of

1:20:54

his life. And it was just this

1:20:56

really incredible Christmas Eve and we sang

1:20:58

and we danced and he drank bourbon

1:21:00

and chewed on his cigar in his

1:21:02

same chair and he watched his two

1:21:04

generations. And you know what? This 23

1:21:07

thing. 23 keeps coming up with you

1:21:09

too. You have 23 chapters in your

1:21:11

book and he had 23 grandkids and

1:21:13

23 great grandkids when he died in

1:21:15

2023. And we had this incredible Christmas

1:21:17

Eve and on Christmas Day. We went

1:21:20

across the street and it was the

1:21:22

last time I saw him on Christmas

1:21:24

Day. And we went over there and

1:21:26

he was just talking about everything. He

1:21:28

was asking me about my pajama margins

1:21:31

and he was asking me the size

1:21:33

of my warehouse and he was telling

1:21:35

me all these ideas that he had

1:21:37

about these things that I should do

1:21:39

with my pajama company because he was

1:21:41

just the ultimate entrepreneur. And he looked

1:21:44

at me and he was just totally

1:21:46

with it. He looked at me and

1:21:48

he said, Mel, he's like, gosh. I

1:21:50

got so many ideas left in me.

1:21:52

He's like, I just don't have any

1:21:54

more time. And, you know, that was

1:21:57

such a, the 24 hours that we

1:21:59

spent with him. I'll never forget that

1:22:01

because he was choosing to just live

1:22:03

in the biggest way possible having his

1:22:05

whole family there partying and even though

1:22:08

he was in pain and like it

1:22:10

was the end of his life he

1:22:12

wanted to celebrate and to just like

1:22:14

do it so big and even at

1:22:16

the end of his life he wasn't like

1:22:18

he was just sharing ideas with me and

1:22:21

like he knew it was the end of

1:22:23

his life he died like hours later and

1:22:25

he He still was just so full

1:22:28

of life and full of ideas and sharing

1:22:30

them. If you have ideas and you're

1:22:32

listening to this podcast, like, and

1:22:34

that's why I said it at your event, I

1:22:36

was like, I want you to remember, you

1:22:38

have the gift of Tom. You can change your

1:22:41

life. Are you addicted? Are you in

1:22:43

a terrible relationship? Do you have this

1:22:45

billion dollar idea that you're like, oh,

1:22:47

I can't do it because of what

1:22:49

my high school friends are going to

1:22:51

think? Oh my gosh, you still have time. the

1:22:53

gift of time and you can do

1:22:55

all these things and that's something that

1:22:57

my grandpa didn't have anymore and he

1:23:00

died with all these ideas still left

1:23:02

in him and what a beautiful

1:23:04

thing still to die with ideas left in

1:23:06

you and you know I didn't share this

1:23:08

because I was like this will feel too

1:23:10

more but he knew that it was the

1:23:12

end for him he he stood up out of

1:23:14

his chair like this was you know hours

1:23:16

after that and he said go get mom

1:23:18

and he knew that he was he died five

1:23:21

minutes later I know, so it's

1:23:23

just so, oh, how he imparted the

1:23:25

message of living fully to me with

1:23:28

his whole life, but especially

1:23:30

in the last 24 hours of his

1:23:32

life, was epic. And so I'm glad

1:23:34

I got to share that on the

1:23:36

stage at the worthy event, because it's

1:23:39

something that I want people to

1:23:41

have a fire under them. After

1:23:43

you turn this podcast off or

1:23:46

stop watching this, you know, if you're

1:23:48

watching it. You have the time. You

1:23:50

have time. Please change your life. Please

1:23:53

like make the moves because like you're

1:23:55

worthy of it. Yeah. And you have

1:23:57

the time and the ability and

1:23:59

like. Just do it. And

1:24:01

we need your ideas and

1:24:03

this world needs your ideas.

1:24:05

Mallory Urban. Thank you. And

1:24:08

I love you. Sorry a

1:24:10

crowd so much during me.

1:24:12

Oh, you just bring that

1:24:14

out to me, Jamie. This

1:24:16

is just how I feel

1:24:18

about these things. So thank

1:24:20

you for having me. Thank

1:24:22

you. Do you struggle with

1:24:24

negative self-talk? Living with a

1:24:26

constant mental narrative that you're

1:24:28

not good enough is exhausting.

1:24:30

I know because I spent

1:24:33

most of my life in

1:24:35

that habit. The words you

1:24:37

say to yourself about yourself...

1:24:39

are so powerful and when

1:24:41

you learn to take control

1:24:43

over your self-talk it's life-changing

1:24:45

and I wanted to give

1:24:47

you a free resource that

1:24:49

I created for you if

1:24:51

this is something that could

1:24:53

benefit your life. It's called

1:24:56

five ways to overcome negative

1:24:58

self-talk and build self-love. and

1:25:00

it's a free how-to guide

1:25:02

to overcome that negative self-talk

1:25:04

to build confidence and develop

1:25:06

unshakable self-love so that you

1:25:08

can dream big and keep

1:25:10

going in the pursuit of

1:25:12

your goals. Don't let self-sabbataging

1:25:14

thoughts hinder your progress any

1:25:16

longer. It's time to rewrite

1:25:19

the script of your life

1:25:21

when filled with self-love, resilience

1:25:23

and unwavering belief. If you're

1:25:25

ready to take charge of

1:25:27

your narrative, build unwavering confidence

1:25:29

and empower yourself to persevere

1:25:31

on the path to your

1:25:33

dreams. You can grab your

1:25:35

free guide to stop overthinking

1:25:37

and learn to trust yourself

1:25:39

at JamieKernlima.com/resources or click the

1:25:41

link in the show notes

1:25:44

below. Who you spend time

1:25:46

around is so important as

1:25:48

energy is contagious and so

1:25:50

is self-belief. and I'd love

1:25:52

to hang out with you

1:25:54

even more, especially if you

1:25:56

could use an extra dose

1:25:58

of inspiration. which is exactly

1:26:00

why I've created my free

1:26:02

weekly newsletter that's also a

1:26:04

love letter to you delivered straight to

1:26:07

your inbox from me. If you

1:26:09

haven't signed up to make sure

1:26:11

that you get it each week,

1:26:13

just go to JamieKernlima.com to make

1:26:16

sure you're on the list and

1:26:18

you'll get your one-on-one with Jamie

1:26:20

weekly newsletter and get ready to

1:26:22

believe in you. If you're tired of

1:26:24

hearing the bad news every single

1:26:26

day and need some inspiration, some

1:26:29

tips. tools, joy and

1:26:31

love hitting your inbox.

1:26:33

I'm your girl. Subscribe

1:26:35

at JamieKernlima.com or in

1:26:37

the link in the

1:26:39

show notes. I am so

1:26:41

excited for this book. You

1:26:43

know what? Because it's going

1:26:45

to save so many people.

1:26:48

It's going to say cool.

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Were the your new beautiful

1:26:52

but worthy. Get this book?

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This book? I'm telling you.

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It's a book that can

1:26:59

change anybody's life who picks

1:27:01

it up. Anybody who's ever

1:27:03

felt that they were not

1:27:05

good enough, didn't measure up,

1:27:07

something's missing in your life. I

1:27:09

have to tell you, it's powerful.

1:27:11

It's happening. It's worthy.

1:27:14

Imagine what would you do

1:27:16

if you fully believed in you? I

1:27:18

went from struggling waitress facing non-stop

1:27:20

rejection to founder of IT

1:27:23

cosmetics, a billion dollar company,

1:27:25

by learning how to overcome

1:27:27

self-doubt and believe I'm worthy

1:27:29

of my hopes and dreams,

1:27:31

and I'm sharing how you

1:27:33

can too and my new

1:27:35

book, Worthy, how to believe

1:27:37

you are enough and transform

1:27:39

your life. If you're ready to

1:27:41

truly trust yourself and break through

1:27:44

that barrier of self, and know

1:27:46

that where you come from or

1:27:48

even where you are right now

1:27:51

doesn't determine where you're going, then

1:27:53

worthy is for you. It's time

1:27:56

to go from doubting you're enough

1:27:58

to knowing you're enough. Time to

1:28:00

step into all of who you

1:28:02

are and into the person you were

1:28:05

born to be. And it's time

1:28:07

to believe that you are worthy of

1:28:09

it. Because in life, we don't become

1:28:11

what we want. We become what

1:28:13

we believe we're worthy of it. Join

1:28:17

the Worthy movement today by grabbing

1:28:19

your copy of Worthy anywhere books

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are sold and head to Worthybook.com

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now for free gifts including my

1:28:26

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1:28:29

my 95-page Worthy workbook action plan

1:28:31

that teaches you how to implement

1:28:33

the tools from the book into

1:28:36

your real life right now. Worthy

1:28:38

is groundbreaking. This book is going

1:28:40

to change lives. This book literally

1:28:42

will teach you how to actually

1:28:45

for worthy so that you can

1:28:47

have the strength. You can have

1:28:49

the confidence. The lessons in this

1:28:52

book and the strategies will change

1:28:54

your life. You will never be

1:28:56

the same again after you read

1:28:59

this book. Jamie's bookworthy is a

1:29:01

must read. It is going to

1:29:03

inspire you, empower you, give you

1:29:06

the hope that you need and

1:29:08

the kick in the rear end

1:29:10

that you... deserve. Jamie's bookworthy is

1:29:13

incredible. The gifts are going away

1:29:15

but they're all free right now

1:29:17

on worthybook.com. It's such an honor

1:29:19

to share this podcast together

1:29:22

with you and please note

1:29:24

I'm not a licensed therapist

1:29:27

and this podcast is not

1:29:29

intended as a substitute for

1:29:32

the advice of a physician

1:29:34

professional coach psychotherapist or other

1:29:36

qualified professional. If you love

1:29:39

this episode's insights, this next

1:29:41

transformative episode is for you.