0:03

Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan

0:06

Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday

0:08

producer, my accomplice and advice

0:10

utainment, Gabriel Mizrahi. On

0:13

the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets,

0:15

and skills of the world's most fascinating people and

0:17

turn their wisdom into practical advice that you

0:19

can use to impact your own life and those around

0:21

you. Our mission is to help you become a better

0:24

informed, more critical thinker. During the week,

0:26

we have long form conversations with a variety

0:28

of amazing folks from Russian spies and

0:30

gold smugglers and astronauts and four star generals

0:33

all the way to

0:33

journalists and poker champions. This

0:35

week, we had Chris DeArmit. This was

0:38

about how plastics aren't that bad and it's

0:40

not a big deal in

0:41

a lot of ways. And I either

0:43

got played hard or the

0:45

plastic problem in our environment is really

0:47

not as impossible to solve as we think.

0:50

And plastics might actually be more green than

0:52

we ever thought, if you can believe it. Great news

0:54

about plastics from plastics expert and scientist

0:57

who doesn't actually sell plastic

0:59

and is therefore much more credible than

1:02

somebody who does. And another episode

1:04

with Masab, Hassan Youssef, son of a

1:06

Hamas co-founder. This one's a mashup of

1:08

an older episode from three years ago with

1:11

new commentary, with new relevant

1:13

commentary for the current conflict.

1:15

That episode previously aired three plus years ago and is

1:18

just, yeah, hyper relevant to today. On Fridays

1:20

though, we share stories, we offer advice, we play

1:22

bizarre sound bites like a couple of niche shock

1:25

jocks from the nineties, and we generally

1:27

roast Gabriel for his overly ambitious sign-offs.

1:30

We do that. Gabe, funny story I remembered

1:32

this week a long time ago

1:33

when I lived in Hollywood, I was out

1:35

walking around and I'd go to this one gas station

1:37

to get drinks a lot. And it was near

1:39

this fancy apartment where all these sort of famous

1:42

media types lived. And Andy Milonakis

1:45

and Jay from Jay and Silent Bob, they were

1:47

my neighbors. And is this that place in Hollywood

1:49

where we would put our feet in the pool sometimes and hang out? Is

1:52

it that building? It must be that place. Because yeah,

1:54

we had a pool and it was the old Hollywood hotel,

1:56

but then they built a high rise next to it and you could

1:58

live in the hotel or you could live in a.

1:59

high right. I remember that place. So

2:02

I lived there with all these celebrities who were past

2:05

their prime or just never quite hit the brass

2:07

ring or whatever and then me which is

2:09

very fitting now that I think about it. I think a

2:11

Pakistani guy worked at the gas

2:14

station on the corner and it was a busy gas

2:16

station and one day I walked in there it

2:18

was Ramadan. I used to pass

2:20

by there and I'd grab a drink or something and I asked

2:22

him, hey what are you eating? Like I'd

2:24

just never seen him eat and I didn't recognize the food and

2:27

he was breaking the fast for Ramadan because

2:29

I guess the sun had gone down or whatever the rules are

2:31

and he goes, oh Ramadan this that and

2:33

he's like I see you all the time where do you live? And

2:36

I said, oh back there and I

2:38

pointed toward my apartment building which

2:41

was next to the freeway the 101 if you

2:43

know LA and all or California and he goes,

2:45

oh the overpass and I was like yeah I

2:47

just thought I live just under the overpass there and

2:50

this guy's whole demeanor changes

2:53

and he shares his food with me which

2:55

is weird right but he insists on

2:58

sharing the food with me and I accept because you know

3:00

it's really nice and I want to be agreeable I guess

3:03

and I

3:04

just figured I'd seen this guy a bunch he's like being super

3:06

friendly but he makes me eat like all of

3:08

his food. I'm like okay dude aren't you

3:11

fasting like shouldn't you eat this? He's kind of pushy

3:13

about it which I found a little weird but

3:15

I was like okay this guy really wants

3:17

to be hospitable and halfway

3:20

through the food I realized

3:23

why he's sharing his food with me because

3:25

it's a religious holiday and he thinks I

3:28

live under the

3:30

overpass with all of these

3:32

like glue huffing sort of junky

3:35

people that live in this Hollywood overpass

3:37

which are it's not there's a lot of tragedy in

3:40

this area there's a lot of people living under the overpass

3:42

so he was doing this I don't know what you'd call it like

3:44

a mitzvah or the Muslim equivalent of

3:46

a mitzvah by sharing all this Ramadan

3:49

food with me and so I sat there

3:51

and ate the food and

3:53

then I debated awkwardly

3:55

explaining to him that I actually lived in this Swimming

4:00

pool and like three balconies or whatever

4:02

on my unit down the street But I thought better of it

4:04

because at this point why bother right? He's just gonna be

4:06

like what so you just let him believe

4:09

that you were homeless Yeah, I guess cuz I was

4:11

like I can't go back now. Did you

4:13

ever go back? Yeah, but I'm like should

4:15

I wear torn clothing? Like I don't even know

4:17

if I should I and it just he's a very nice

4:20

guy and Pakistani food It was amazing by the

4:22

way is there I definitely became a fan of the cuisine That's

4:24

really funny because I figured if gas station

4:26

attended box lunch or Ramadan dinner

4:29

or whatever Was this tasty? I should probably check it out. I'd

4:31

say it's like Indian food, but I don't want to get shivved Oh,

4:34

yeah, you're gonna stumble into a geopolitical

4:36

conflict with that comparison. Yeah, I'm gonna get

4:38

super super messed up by those That's

4:40

a really funny story though. Yeah,

4:42

it's just it was so ridiculous because I was

4:44

like Why is this guy making me eat this food? It's

4:47

like giving me all the lentils or whatever and I'm like,

4:49

this is really good and then I'm like why so weird

4:51

He's making me eat this and I'm just a random customer

4:53

of them She thinks I live

4:55

under the freeway now it all

4:57

makes sense You know, what's weird is it's

5:00

not even close to Ramadan But I think what reminded

5:02

me of this was Thanksgiving is coming up

5:04

and I was like, oh it kind of reminds me of the time

5:06

I ate some Dinner

5:11

they even waiting for like 13

5:13

hours or something He's

5:15

like God's watching me. I should probably let this homeless guy

5:18

eat the lentils dude was hungry all

5:20

the next day because you Pretended to be somebody

5:22

you weren't by the way, I was

5:24

coming from a big-ass

5:27

chicken dinner I want to go see where I'm

5:29

from Korea at all Yeah,

5:32

that is the most harbinger stuff I've ever heard.

5:34

That's great God wait, what

5:36

is the name of the chicken place? That is so

5:38

good in LA you're vegan. I know this hold on Let me what

5:41

is the name? It's a chain is it

5:43

Zanku chicken? So it's

5:45

not my way back from Zanku

5:48

chicken and I just hammered

5:50

down a ton of food So I

5:52

was like, oh Starving

5:55

watching me eat his food while

5:57

I'm like, oh so good, but I'm so

5:59

full Oh, man, that's great. I like the idea of you

6:02

having to cosplay as somebody who lives under the

6:04

underpass for the rest of the four years you

6:06

lived in that building. I'm like, guess I can't ever

6:08

patronize this business again. I might need

6:10

this guy. And then, of course, I eventually

6:13

got a car. This is before I had a car. So I was

6:15

walking. You probably saw me a bunch. I

6:17

can never fill my car up at this

6:20

game. Why, you have a brand new Ford Fusion? What

6:22

the hell? How is that

6:24

possible? Oh, man, that's great. Oh, God. All right. Gabe,

6:26

what's the first thing out of the mailbag? Hey,

6:30

Jordan and Gabe. I dated a guy for about

6:32

six months a few years ago. At

6:34

the time, I was 24 and

6:37

he was 40. It seemed at

6:39

first like I'd found a mature man who

6:41

knew how to treat me like a proper lady. He

6:43

spoiled me with gifts and compliments,

6:45

and we fell hard and fast for each other.

6:48

Well, here we go.

6:52

But what started as a fairy tale quickly

6:54

turned into a nightmare as a classic

6:56

domestic abuse situation started to unfold.

6:59

My Prince Charming turned out to be a violent alcoholic.

7:02

Oh, no. The

7:04

love bombing made the physical, emotional,

7:06

and sexual abuse seem worth it after

7:08

he isolated me from my friends and family. I

7:10

justified staying with him because

7:13

I saw his alcoholism as

7:15

a sickness, and I loved him so

7:17

much. I just wanted to help him. Oh,

7:20

man. This is really disturbing. So this guy was a real

7:22

monster, and you, on the other hand, you sound

7:24

really kind, very compassionate, but that

7:27

might have been part of the reason he was able

7:29

to do all this. So she

7:31

goes on, I finally got the strength

7:33

to walk away the day he hit me. Good.

7:36

Well done. Nice. That couldn't have been easy,

7:38

but the timing was obviously right

7:41

if he hit you. My gosh. Best

7:43

thing you ever did. It's been about a year

7:45

and a half since that day, and we

7:47

haven't spoken since. I've been to therapy

7:49

to process the trauma and have made peace with the

7:51

experience. I learned how to protect

7:53

myself from people like this in the future, and

7:56

I've come to appreciate how I grew

7:58

from this situation.

7:59

Incredible. Again, amazing job.

8:02

Well done. Yeah, I agree. I think it sounds like you've

8:04

healed and grown a ton here. Yeah. Best thing

8:06

you can do after an experience like this, figure

8:09

out why it happened, figure out how to make sure

8:11

it never happens again. Really proud of you for that.

8:13

Mm-hmm. Then, recently, I got a text

8:16

from one of our mutual friends filling me in on

8:18

a harrowing tale involving my ex.

8:21

Mm-hmm. According to this friend, my ex got

8:23

into a huge fight with his new girlfriend. Apparently,

8:26

she caught him cheating on her, which came

8:28

as no surprise since he was cheating on me as well.

8:31

Well, what a class act. So he's still

8:33

a dysfunctional mess. Cool. But

8:36

this woman took his infidelity a

8:39

bit harder than I did, to say the least. They

8:41

were driving in a car together arguing when

8:44

she kicked him out and told him to walk home. She then

8:47

proceeded to get out of the car, come

8:49

up behind him with a rubber mallet, and

8:51

take out his niece. Okay. I did

8:54

not see that coming. Wow.

8:57

Straight up Kathy Bates and misread him?

9:00

Jesus. Good reference.

9:02

Boy. That escalated

9:05

quickly. And I know I used that sound bite last

9:07

week, but I think it was justified in both instances.

9:10

It really was. Yeah. Also, who

9:12

has a rubber mallet just lying around in the

9:14

trunk? That's a niche weapon, I gotta

9:16

say. The simple answer is a woman with an axe

9:18

to grind or a rubber mallet

9:20

to grind, as the case may be. But here's my

9:22

thing. Nobody just has

9:24

that sitting in the truck. Right. So

9:27

she put that shit in there and she

9:29

was ready for this moment. You know

9:31

a week prior she's walking through Home Depot

9:33

and she's like, knife? Nah,

9:35

too messy. Sledgehammer? Nah,

9:38

too hard might kill him. Ah, rubber

9:41

mallet. Perfect. Maiming

9:43

but no blood. And $7.97 later,

9:46

here we are. And yes, I did look up the price

9:48

of a 16 ounce rubber mallet just now.

9:51

And by the way, Harbor Freight actually has them for $3.99, but

9:54

I think they might only be good for like maybe

9:57

one kneecap before they break. So

9:59

you might. not want to get the Harbor Freight one, word to the

10:01

wise. That's actually a lot cheaper than I

10:03

would have thought. I agree. Honestly, unless

10:05

this woman is into woodworking or, I

10:08

don't know, removing dents from

10:10

metal, you

10:12

gotta wonder why Homegirl is riding

10:15

dirty with a weapon that you would only see

10:17

in like a Martin Scorsese movie. I

10:20

feel like this is how Joe Pesci would deal with somebody

10:23

like this. Oh boy, okay, let's

10:25

see what this does. Once

10:27

he was on the ground, she ran over him again. I can't. This

10:31

guy's about to get murdered and we are- I did not mean

10:33

to laugh. Let me tell you something bad.

10:36

I'm not, I'm pulling it together. Hang

10:38

on. Okay. Deep

10:41

breath. Once he was on the ground, she ran over

10:43

him with her car. Oh my God. Then

10:46

turned back around to run over

10:49

him again. Why

10:53

am I laughing? It's so horrible,

10:56

but it's so funny. Oh God, I'm- oh,

10:59

this is so bananas. She

11:01

really wanted this guy- that is blind

11:04

rage. First of all, the premeditated

11:06

kneecapping of this man. And

11:08

then just like, I'm gonna run

11:10

you over. You know, you're not dead yet. I'm gonna run you

11:13

over again. I mean, she really just

11:15

impulse control issues. I don't know why

11:18

that made us laugh at all, but there's

11:20

something about the visual I have of this

11:22

scene, even though it's horrifying, it's just kind of

11:24

funny. I don't know why. I'm sorry. Okay,

11:27

let's just- let's keep reading. Now

11:29

he's in critical condition in the hospital with

11:31

shattered legs, all kinds of- You

11:33

can't laugh. You can't laugh.

11:36

You laughed. I didn't laugh. I

11:43

can't get through this if you're laughing. If we're both-

11:45

okay. Sorry everybody, I have

11:47

to listen to this. Now he's in critical condition-

11:56

Now he's in critical condition in the hospital

11:58

with shattered legs. all kinds of internal

12:01

bruising, broken ribs, the

12:03

works. He's gonna be in the hospital for

12:05

a long time, and the doctors are saying

12:07

he might never walk again. Wow.

12:10

Wow. That, okay, now that we've finally

12:12

gotten through that, that is really intense. But

12:15

also... Kinda got what was coming

12:17

to him. Kinda. I mean, no one

12:19

deserves to be run over twice

12:21

and paralyzed. Sure. Look,

12:24

you treat people like garbage. Maybe

12:26

you pick people who are a little unstable.

12:29

Stuff like this can happen. That was an unreasonable

12:31

reaction from this woman, but obviously she's

12:33

damaged, and then he pushed all of her buttons, and here

12:35

we are. Correct, yeah. It is

12:37

very interesting. So she goes on, my

12:40

initial reaction was a morbid, which I'm

12:42

sure Dark Jordan can appreciate. Well, certainly

12:45

proven by the last few minutes of this podcast. I

12:48

chalked it up to karma and said, good riddance,

12:50

a person as chaotic and harmful as he is,

12:53

needed to be stopped. I agree 100%. It's

12:56

almost poetic. I mean, he helped

12:58

create this situation, but holy

13:01

moly, wow. When I told my sister

13:03

about this, she said I

13:05

should have a bake sale to help his girlfriend

13:08

post-sale. That's

13:10

pretty funny. Well played sister. Although

13:12

I would not go anywhere near this woman ever.

13:14

Oh man, that's great. Her sister's on some Dark

13:16

Jordan-ish right there. That's pretty funny. I

13:19

like your sister. It's funny. But now

13:21

that the dust has settled, I can't help

13:23

but think about this a little differently. This

13:25

is a person who has routinely

13:27

destroyed all of his close relationships. Correct.

13:31

He's probably all alone and

13:33

feeling miserable and helpless in the hospital.

13:36

Probably. Probably. Yeah.

13:38

I can't help but wonder how he'll continue to support

13:40

himself and his young children if he'll

13:42

never walk again. I should feel vindicated

13:45

and part of me does, but most of me

13:47

feels compassion. After all,

13:50

I did love him once. I don't hate

13:52

the guy. And I'm sure now that he's been forced

13:54

to sober up in the hospital, he must really

13:57

be feeling the gravity of the situation. I'm

14:00

gonna restrain myself from chiming in but

14:02

just to chime in you're right He probably

14:05

is sobering up and feeling the gravity of the situation

14:07

as he should This could slash

14:09

should be a real wake-up call for this guy I

14:12

mean or not who knows I

14:14

hope it is but he could also be lying in the hospital

14:17

going. She's crazy I'm the victim. I don't

14:19

deserve this. You know, we don't know that's true He might

14:21

but for a person like this somebody who sounds

14:23

very narcissistic and abusive and out of control If

14:26

there's any hope of piercing through the chaos

14:28

and making him wake up. It's gonna be something like

14:30

this. That's true So she goes on despite

14:33

everything I still care for his well-being Maybe

14:36

a text from me would lift his spirits just

14:38

enough to give him hope to heal physically and

14:41

maybe even mentally I truly

14:43

do not want to be involved in his life anymore I

14:46

just want to offer a little light to someone

14:48

I once loved who is going through a tough time Okay

14:53

Should I reach out to him and offer my wishes that

14:56

he get well soon or Should

14:58

I just let the feeling go and let him lie

15:00

in the bed? He made literally and metaphorically

15:03

is it worth the risk of inviting

15:05

chaos back into my life? Signed

15:08

return to the scene of the crime for my one-time

15:10

guy who almost died or continue

15:12

my climb because he is Total

15:15

slime. Well, holy smokes. What a

15:17

story Gabe. This is banana It's

15:19

better than most movies that come out of this

15:21

these days and I can see the scene with the car

15:24

playing out Who plays the girlfriend? That's

15:26

Billy Billy Eilish You

15:30

could kneecap somebody I can't believe this

15:32

actually happened though, but not to your point earlier I

15:34

guess you get two combustible personalities

15:37

together. Who knows what's gonna happen? I know

15:39

we're on team ladies here given what

15:41

an unmitigated a-hole this guy is But

15:43

you gotta wonder what's going on with the girlfriend

15:46

for her to snap like this I mean, this is sure

15:48

not you know Slapping your boyfriend

15:51

or slashing his tires because you found out he was cheating

15:53

This is assault battery vehicular assault

15:55

and almost certainly attempted

15:57

murder so this woman has

16:00

got to be in a world of trouble now, right? I'm assuming

16:02

she's going to do time for this. Well, no

16:04

doubt. I don't think the cops let you off because

16:06

your boyfriend's a dick. That's not

16:08

a mitigating circumstance for zamboni-ing

16:11

somebody on the side of the road. So,

16:14

no, you should not reach out

16:16

to this guy and offer your wishes that he get

16:18

well soon. This guy is a bonafide

16:21

monster. He's an abuser. He's violent. He's

16:23

isolated you from your friends and family. That was deliberate.

16:26

He's in active addiction. He

16:28

traumatized you, probably repeatedly.

16:31

What happened to him is horrifying. And I guess

16:33

in a way, it is tragic. I mean, his life

16:35

is probably never going to be the same. His kids

16:37

might pay a heavy price, which is unfair, in

16:39

that their dad might never walk again. And

16:42

that is legitimately awful. But like

16:44

you said, he made his bed. Now

16:46

he's got a lie in it. He helped engineer

16:49

this situation through his dysfunction, through

16:51

his choices. He invited this. And

16:54

sure, maybe these injuries are disproportionate

16:56

to what he did or, you know, maybe that. But

16:58

he put himself in a situation where this could happen,

17:01

if only by dating somebody like this and or

17:03

carrying on with other people and having

17:05

affairs and God knows what else. Who

17:07

knows what else he might have done to her. Probably a lot

17:09

of things he did to you. And now he needs to deal

17:12

with the fallout. After everything

17:14

he put you through, I do not feel this

17:16

would be smart or healthy for you to reach

17:19

out to him. I do not. It is not your job

17:21

to comfort him. It is not your place. He doesn't

17:23

deserve that, in my opinion, even if he is having

17:26

a come to Jesus moment right now. And

17:28

I sincerely hope that he is indeed having that. And I hope

17:30

that he uses this tragedy to take a long

17:33

hard look at himself and start doing the kind

17:35

of work you did after you guys broke up.

17:37

But man, that is his work. That is his

17:40

life. And to Gabe's point, you don't even

17:42

know how he's making sense of all

17:44

this. He might be the exact same guy in the hospital.

17:47

So reaching out to him, it might validate

17:49

him in some way. It might signal to him that

17:51

he can rely on you again, which he's going

17:53

to definitely try to do. And at a minimum,

17:56

it could easily expose you to more

17:58

of this guy's chaos and...

17:59

pain

18:00

and you do not need that after what

18:02

you have been through. Full stop. Gabe,

18:04

do you think that's fair? What's your take on this? Could

18:07

not agree more. What I find interesting about

18:09

this is what this impulse to reach out to him

18:11

says about her. Like you said, she's

18:13

kind, she's compassionate, that is so obvious.

18:16

The fact that she can even have empathy

18:19

for somebody who put her through this much pain

18:21

is remarkable and I think that speaks to

18:23

her really great character. But I

18:26

think it's very important that she recognize the

18:28

limits of that empathy and make

18:30

sure that she's directing it at the right person and that

18:32

she's not trying to maybe accomplish something

18:35

else by being there for him right now. Like

18:37

trying to rewrite the past, you mean? Yeah,

18:39

maybe. Maybe. Or who knows, maybe

18:42

trying to make herself feel better in some way?

18:45

That's interesting. I hadn't thought of that, but

18:47

that is another good point. Her compassion

18:49

might be so great that she actually

18:51

feels guilty for not reaching out while

18:54

he's going through this. That's probably

18:56

true, yeah. But that doesn't mean that she's

18:58

not compassionate. That doesn't mean she's doing

19:00

something wrong. It just means that she's being appropriate

19:03

and responsible. She can wish him well

19:05

from afar and still know that that

19:07

is not a door she should open. Exactly.

19:09

I mean, look, if her ex reached out to her

19:11

in a year, two years, if he

19:14

wrote her a letter

19:16

and he's like, this horrible thing happened to me, it made

19:18

me realize I was a total monster. I've gone

19:20

to therapy, I've done serious work on myself. I'd

19:22

like to apologize to you for what I did. I'd like to talk

19:25

if you're open to that. Maybe I would say,

19:27

okay, he might deserve

19:29

a little empathy. Might? Right.

19:32

But even then, I think I would still caution

19:34

her about seeing him again, given their past. Yeah.

19:36

Oh, same here. I hope this guy grows from this.

19:38

I really do. But at this point, they're

19:40

on different paths. The pain he put

19:42

her through, whether he becomes a better

19:45

person or not, I don't know

19:47

if they ever really need to talk. He would

19:49

have to be a completely

19:51

different person and

19:54

she would have to have a good reason herself

19:56

for talking to him. Like if it would help her heal in some

19:58

way, but I don't know. But she's done

20:00

that work on her own and they're not even close

20:03

to that. So. Exactly. And

20:05

definitely not, he has not done it, right? He's still lying in

20:07

the hospital trying to figure out how he got there. She

20:10

doesn't know whether this is a safe, healthy person

20:12

to be talking to. I mean, the dude literally can't

20:14

even... He's in the throes of the aftermath of this thing.

20:17

He just cheated on that other girl. He hasn't done any work.

20:20

So, I'm with Jordan. No,

20:22

it's not worth the risk of inviting chaos back into your

20:24

life. You've done truly extraordinary

20:26

work since this breakup. You've used

20:28

this trauma to become a stronger person, a smarter

20:31

person. Why go back there?

20:33

You know? Just keep moving forward and thank

20:35

yourself for not staying with this guy any

20:38

longer than you did because look at the kind

20:40

of stuff that might have happened if you did. Seriously,

20:42

who knows? She might have been the one to hit him with her car.

20:44

I mean, somehow I

20:47

don't think our friend has that in her, but, you

20:49

know, in another universe. You know, this guy

20:51

was cheating on her with other people, right? Including

20:53

people like this other woman, potentially.

20:56

And this woman could hit both of them with her car

20:58

in a different scenario. That's a good point.

21:01

You know what I mean? This isn't a person who was making a calculated

21:04

decision to only go after this guy in that particular

21:06

way. She was just blind with rage and she tried to

21:08

kill him. Such a good point. Being involved

21:10

with people like this just invites

21:12

a disaster on some level. It does. It

21:15

is very interesting. It is. You

21:17

hear about stuff like this all the time. Like a normal nice girl meets

21:19

a guy who's a drug dealer and they both get shot

21:21

because somebody breaks into his house and they're hanging

21:23

out there. And it's like, how did she get mixed up in all

21:25

this? This is how. You get mixed up with

21:28

a bad person and you think, oh, it's fine. He won't hurt me.

21:30

Well, what about the other people trying to hurt him? I mean, you just don't think

21:32

about it because you're not in that pain in their in

21:34

their mess. So yeah, it's fascinating, man.

21:37

It really makes you think about how people can

21:39

unconsciously attract terrible

21:41

things into their lives. And I know that word is usually

21:43

very woo woo. I don't mean like metaphysically,

21:45

the universe is blah, blah, blah. But you hear

21:48

a story like this and you realize,

21:50

man, little tiny decisions and personality

21:53

tidbits and all that stuff adds up to consequences

21:55

that can be very real. I mean, this guy chose a

21:57

partner

21:58

who's possibly slash probably a little.

21:59

questionable, right? I mean, he treated her horribly

22:02

and then she just tried to kill him. And

22:04

that's just one reason why you don't

22:06

want to be anywhere near people who are severely

22:09

unhealthy, abusive, out of

22:11

control, because you could easily experience

22:13

some blowback yourself even if you're

22:16

not the one who is instigating. So

22:18

kudos to you for how far you've come for

22:20

being highly empathetic, but yeah, stay away

22:23

from this guy, man. He's on his own journey,

22:25

hopefully a verve, physical and emotional, and

22:28

recovery. And I guess I hope

22:30

he walks again, but mostly I

22:32

hope he learns to process and make sense of this trauma

22:35

in a way that makes him a better human being. That's

22:37

why he had to go through this, unfortunately.

22:41

But that is not your concern. Your concern is

22:43

to continue building an amazing life without

22:45

him, sending you a hug and wishing

22:48

you all the best. You know who

22:50

won't try to hit you in the knees or the

22:52

wallet, Gabriel, the amazing sponsors

22:55

that support this show, such as Rubber Mallet

22:57

Depot.

22:58

We'll be right back.

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25:29

Friday.

25:30

Okay,

25:32

what's next?

25:33

Hi Jordan and Gabe. I'm 29 years old. I'm

25:35

a PhD student at one of the top universities

25:38

in the country, and I'm single.

25:40

I often struggle to connect

25:42

with people socially and form long-term

25:45

relationships, and not just romantic

25:47

ones. If you ever met me, I

25:49

don't think it would be immediately noticeable. I'm

25:51

honest and curious, and I love

25:54

to get to know people if I get the chance. But

25:56

lately, I've started to feel more and more

25:58

lonely, and I'd like. to learn

26:00

how to improve and change that. Awesome. Great

26:02

mindset, man. I love the self-awareness and

26:04

the openness. I've been at this university

26:07

for a few years now and I formed a small

26:09

group of guy friends. Then new people

26:11

join the group and one of them in particular

26:13

keeps giving me a hard time for being single. Over

26:16

time, this has become a regular conversation

26:19

with almost everyone pulling my leg on the

26:21

matter. As you can imagine, this hit

26:24

a sore spot. I often feel annoyed

26:26

by this person and a mix of negative

26:28

emotions about the situation in general. I

26:31

also recently learned that these friends started

26:33

their own group chat without me. I

26:35

wasn't happy about this but didn't express

26:37

my feelings because frankly,

26:40

I thought they didn't care. More

26:42

recently, they asked me to join a group trip in

26:44

a couple of months and I said I would love to. But

26:47

as soon as I said that, I started having second

26:49

thoughts. All of this has

26:51

made me question whether these are my two friends. I

26:54

now don't feel comfortable sharing what I feel and

26:56

I can't confide in them when I'm having challenges during

26:59

my tough PhD journey. Should

27:01

I continue hanging out with these guys or

27:03

is there no hope here and I need

27:06

to cut ties? Did I do something

27:08

wrong in maintaining these friendships?

27:11

Signed, LokiFeelingDopey for

27:14

putting up with these broskis. Right. Well,

27:16

these are very good questions and big questions.

27:19

And like I said, I really admire you

27:21

for being willing to ask them. I hear

27:23

that you want to get better at relating to people. You

27:25

want to make sure you're picking the right friends and that curiosity

27:28

is serving you very well. So candidly, I don't

27:30

know exactly what these guys think of you, but

27:33

we have some clues. On the one hand, they're

27:35

teasing you for being single, which kind of sucks.

27:38

And there's one guy in particular who's taking it a little

27:40

far. He's not being very thoughtful about how it lands

27:42

with you. On the other hand, we

27:44

all know that guys generally

27:47

speaking, not always the most thoughtful,

27:49

right? Not always the most attuned, especially in their

27:51

20s, especially in a collegiate

27:53

setting, especially to one another. I don't

27:56

know a lot of 20 something guys going around

27:58

thinking, I wonder how that rose to... in the group

28:00

chat landed with Chad. I hope I didn't

28:02

hurt his feelings. I mean, I'm in my 40s

28:05

and I still miss those cues sometimes.

28:07

Right, I mean, these guys might think of this as being like

28:10

funny and playful, but he's sitting there quietly

28:12

like, I don't know, that kind of hurts, but

28:14

he doesn't want to say anything. Exactly, doesn't

28:17

necessarily make it okay, but it might not

28:19

be as overtly malicious

28:22

as it seems. It's possible they just have zero idea

28:24

that they're being hurtful and they think they're ribbing

28:27

him. Also, they invited him on a big trip

28:29

when you're in a friend group and one person sucks, you

28:32

don't invite that guy along at all. Most

28:34

people slowly pull away or they plan the trip

28:36

on the down low and they don't post the pictures to Instagram.

28:39

So that's another point for me and these guys

28:41

aren't monsters, they do like them, they just don't realize how

28:44

they come across kind of column. I think that's

28:46

very possible and it might be easy for them

28:48

to miss because our friend here is

28:50

not the most transparent person.

28:53

Yeah, he's an internal dude. I

28:55

get the sense he isn't always the easiest

28:57

to access, maybe. He's annoyed by

28:59

this one guy in particular, he feels negatively

29:02

about the situation in general, but he hasn't told

29:04

them that. And then I found it interesting when

29:06

he mentioned the group chat thing. So they started

29:08

some group chat without him, which he was not happy

29:11

about, but he didn't express his feelings because in his

29:13

words, frankly, I thought they didn't

29:16

care, which is actually a really sad thing to

29:18

say. I don't know, I think that's very telling.

29:20

Definitely, that's another interesting detail. We

29:23

should probably come back to that. Also,

29:25

he doesn't feel comfortable sharing what he feels

29:28

or how his program is going with these guys. So you're

29:30

right, there's a lot going on with our

29:32

boy here. He has a very rich inner life.

29:35

He's in touch with a lot of feelings, which is great, but

29:37

he doesn't share those feelings very easily. And

29:40

it's interesting because at first his letter was about

29:42

feeling lonely and wanting to get better at forming

29:45

relationships, romantic ones, platonic ones. But

29:48

then his question actually turns out to be, are these

29:50

guys really my friends? Did I do

29:52

something wrong by staying close with them? Yeah,

29:54

that is interesting. But those

29:56

two things are related, I think.

29:58

Because he wants to connect with people better.

29:59

he wants to have more fulfilling relationships, and

30:02

one big key would be to look at this

30:04

tendency to censor himself,

30:06

to not speak up when something bothers him, to

30:09

not share with his friends how he really feels.

30:11

I think that's the quality that connects

30:13

these two challenges that he's dealing with.

30:16

Right. I think he's probably self-protecting

30:18

to some degree. And also speaking

30:20

up when something doesn't sit right with you, that's a

30:22

vulnerable thing to do. That's a little

30:24

scary. I get that. So here's

30:27

an idea. It's a little exercise. I think it'll be

30:29

great practice for you. And it's going to tell you a lot

30:31

about whether these guys are truly your friends.

30:34

The next time that guy teases you about being single

30:36

or any of these friends do it for that matter, I want you

30:38

to try saying something like, all right,

30:41

I'm chronically single. We all know this, but

30:43

can I be honest? It kind of hurts when you make

30:45

fun of me for that, because it's

30:47

actually something I want to get better at. I'm trying to

30:49

work on it. It's a little bit of a sore spot. The

30:52

jokes are starting to feel a little mean

30:54

spirited, maybe a little intense.

30:56

And listen, I'm sure saying something

30:58

like that to your friends,

30:59

it feels kind of daunting, but that is why

31:02

I want you to try it. Because if these

31:04

guys hear that and they go, oh, dude,

31:06

sorry, we had no idea. We're just joking around. We won't

31:09

do it anymore. We got to lay off. That's a good point.

31:11

That's a good sign.

31:12

That could change the whole tone of your friendship and

31:14

it could make them see you in a new way.

31:17

You speaking up, that might give them the

31:19

information they need to know

31:21

how to treat you. But if they hear that and they

31:23

go, oh, dude, chill, we're just making fun

31:25

of you because you have no game and that's just who you are, you're

31:27

going to be single forever, then I'd say, okay, maybe

31:31

these guys are not necessarily

31:33

the right friends for you. I mean, still they could mishandle this

31:35

and be perfectly nice guys, but that's more

31:38

evidence. Maybe don't go on a trip with a bunch of guys

31:40

who don't take you seriously and build you up and

31:42

are constantly tearing you down if it really is that

31:44

bad. But you won't really know

31:46

unless you take a chance and you say something.

31:49

I totally agree. Also, this will be a great

31:51

way to learn how to have these conversations in

31:53

general. Even if these guys turn out to be kind

31:55

of lame, this is a skill that will come in

31:58

handy in all of your relationships. And

32:00

I'm still thinking about that detail we touched on earlier,

32:02

how when they started the group chat without him, he

32:04

didn't speak up because he thinks they didn't care. I

32:07

also found that super interesting because, look, one of two

32:09

things is possible. They're either he's right,

32:12

they really don't care, which means that

32:14

I don't think that they're the right friends for him. Or

32:17

he's wrong, they do care, but he

32:19

just assumes that they don't. And his

32:22

assuming that other people don't really care

32:24

about him, which is probably

32:26

a very old and fundamental belief of

32:28

his, that belief is probably

32:30

determining the tone of a lot of his friendships. Yes,

32:33

exactly. And not just these friendships,

32:36

but probably a lot of his experiences

32:38

in life. We tend to settle for

32:40

the relationships we feel we deserve, right?

32:43

So when we ignore certain signals

32:45

from people, or we don't speak up

32:47

when something bothers us, or we assume

32:49

that the other person just isn't interested

32:52

in understanding us, or they don't care,

32:54

whatever, we can end up in dynamics that

32:56

feel like this, that feel unsatisfying

32:59

or unfair. Right, and we

33:01

help create those dynamics. Exactly,

33:04

by choosing people who create us a certain

33:06

way, and then sometimes also allowing them to

33:09

continue doing that. And I think that's what our

33:11

friend here is starting to confront. And the conversation

33:13

that you just pitched a moment ago would be one

33:15

way for him to start rewriting that dynamic. Now,

33:18

TBD on whether these guys are interested in

33:20

rewriting it with him, but sometimes,

33:22

you know, it just takes a shift on one person's part. Yeah.

33:25

Look, I like that he's doing this. I think he can, because

33:28

he's genuinely eager to get better at this. For

33:31

sure. So, no, you did nothing wrong in

33:33

maintaining these friendships. You need friends. These

33:35

guys seem promising. Maybe they really are cool, but

33:37

you're also evolving. You're more in touch with your

33:40

needs and your feelings now, and that's making

33:42

you see these situations more clearly. So rather

33:44

than beat yourself up about being friends with the

33:46

wrong people or not, I'd give yourself

33:48

credit for getting to this point. I

33:51

wouldn't write these guys off immediately without

33:53

showing up in a more authentic way, but

33:55

I also wouldn't stick around if they don't respond

33:57

well to you showing up in that new way.

34:00

or you stick with the one or two

34:02

who do and you just move on from the rest.

34:04

It's a big part of your 20s, man, narrowing your inner

34:06

circle to the people who are on the same page

34:09

as you. And you got this, man, good luck. You

34:11

can reach us, friday at jordanharbinger.com.

34:13

Keep your emails concise, use descriptive subject

34:16

lines. That makes our job a lot easier. If

34:18

your stepdad's got your nudes, your neighbor's eavesdropping

34:20

on your therapy sessions through the wall, or his schizophrenic,

34:23

possibly psychopathic guys harassing you and your

34:25

neighbors, those poor people from last week,

34:27

Gabe. If whatever's got you staying up at night

34:29

lately, hit us up, friday at jordanharbinger.com.

34:32

We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous.

34:36

Okay, next up. Hey guys,

34:38

I'm fairly young in my profession, but

34:40

I've been told multiple times by my boss,

34:43

my supervisor, and other higher ups

34:45

that I do a great job. I was

34:47

recently asked to be in an interim

34:49

high up position at my workplace, which

34:52

is my dream job. When the position

34:54

opened, my boss said, it's something I want you

34:56

to think about. That's a direct quote. I

34:59

took this as a sign that I should apply.

35:01

But when the time came, I wasn't

35:04

even interviewed for the position. I

35:06

was kept in the dark until I was asked to

35:08

train the new person in the role since I

35:10

knew how to do the job so well. I

35:13

took this as a huge insult to my abilities

35:16

and knowledge. I also wasn't paid

35:18

any extra for all of this advanced work I took

35:20

on when the real position pays

35:22

nearly double my current salary. I

35:25

requested a meeting with my boss, and she

35:27

said that she thought it was great that I wanna advance,

35:29

but that I just haven't, quote unquote, suffered

35:32

enough to be in a position of power

35:35

since I'm so new in my career. Hmm.

35:38

Okay, yeah, that is super lame.

35:41

If that's actually true, then your boss is valuing

35:43

a quality that has no bearing on

35:45

whether you'd be good for the position. It's

35:47

just this subjective, you have to

35:50

pay your dues and be miserable for X amount of

35:52

time before you can rise up. Is that even a metric?

35:55

That's different from saying you don't have enough experience or

35:58

you need a few more years to learn how to manage people.

35:59

or whatever, having suffered

36:02

is

36:02

not a credential. Again, how do

36:04

you measure that? Being wiser, being

36:06

more experienced, those are meaningful

36:09

qualifications, but they don't necessarily need

36:11

to come through suffering. Now, if

36:13

what she's saying isn't true, then

36:16

she's just not being honest with you about why

36:18

you didn't get the job, and she's depriving you

36:20

of the feedback you need to become a great candidate.

36:23

Either way, not something a good boss would

36:25

say, in my opinion. Carry on, Gabe. She

36:27

also said that I am so good at

36:29

my current position, and she can't

36:31

lose me. Ah, there

36:34

it is. So she doesn't want to promote you because

36:36

she doesn't want to lose a great employee. She's actually

36:38

just being self-interested. Strike two. I

36:41

asked her to clarify, and she said I

36:43

needed to experience things such as staff

36:45

turnover and or layoffs, in-depth

36:48

hiring processes, and what

36:50

she said I needed most to advance, a doctorate.

36:53

So I could experience the hardship and

36:56

suffering of a dissertation. Ah, again,

36:58

she's not saying go get a PhD because we need

37:01

that level of expertise around here. She's

37:03

saying go get your doctorate so you can struggle

37:05

enough for me to take you seriously

37:07

because that's what I did. Also,

37:09

I don't understand what good is watching people

37:12

leave or get fired gonna

37:14

do for him. I'm

37:16

not understanding something. I mean, unless they actually

37:18

work in HR and seeing those things

37:21

is a direct part of the job, but if she just means

37:23

you need to see more drama at this company before

37:25

you're ready, then that's just BS. This

37:28

lady is grinding my damn gears right

37:30

now. The position clearly states

37:32

that only a master's degree is needed and

37:34

doesn't even mention that a doctorate is preferred.

37:37

Also, every other person in the same role also

37:40

only has a master's degree and a

37:42

couple have less work experience than I do.

37:45

Great, so that's just a total lie.

37:47

Slash something she made up on her own. Strike

37:49

three, this is a terrible boss so

37:51

far. She also mentioned that

37:54

I should do certain trainings, attend conferences,

37:56

and join boards of directors. Many of these

37:58

opportunities appear to be... rather costly

38:01

and I'm still working on paying off student loans

38:03

so taking on more debt just so I can

38:06

move up does not seem wise to me. Well

38:08

okay I'm all for investing in yourself and

38:10

getting more involved in things but you don't

38:13

embark on a six-year PhD to the

38:15

tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars because

38:17

one person at one company invented

38:20

this requirement out of thin air and

38:22

for dumb reasons. You do it because you have

38:25

something concrete to learn if it

38:27

would actually increase your earning power if you're

38:29

actually passionate about it. Okay fine I'm just baffled

38:32

by the spot. The person she ended

38:34

up hiring did have a doctorate degree although

38:36

two other candidates without a doctorate made it to the

38:38

final round. The kicker is that

38:40

the person she hired has zero

38:42

experience in this field although they

38:44

do have 10 years more experience than I do. I

38:47

am now worried about my future here.

38:50

I don't want to be stuck in my current role for long

38:52

as I'm not challenged and can take on

38:54

more complex duties. I've been considering

38:57

applying elsewhere because of how angry the situation

38:59

has made me but I'm conflicted

39:01

as I do enjoy my work. Will

39:04

I continue being blocked from advancement? Am

39:07

I not being respected? Will leaving

39:09

this company be like starting all over again and

39:12

undoing some of the great headway I've made at this company?

39:14

Signed puzzling over this reshuffling

39:17

and wondering if I'm sputtering when

39:19

I haven't racked up enough suffering. Well

39:22

just to jump right in I'm not crazy about this situation.

39:25

I think there are a few red flags here you're smart

39:27

to be paying attention to them. It can be easy

39:29

to discount this stuff and then five years go by

39:32

and you're still in the same place so I admire your

39:34

ambition, I admire your honesty. A

39:36

couple thoughts for you. First it

39:38

doesn't sound like your boss has your

39:40

best interest at heart at all. She's

39:43

more interested in keeping you where you are because

39:45

it benefits her. Unfortunately

39:48

that's very common in corporate life, it's not

39:50

new but that's why you're smart

39:52

to be going okay do I really want to stick around

39:54

here? If this person isn't going to champion

39:56

you or at least give you the freedom to move

39:59

up elsewhere then you need to look out

40:01

for yourself. Although I'm a little

40:03

confused though because his boss did say that she

40:05

wanted him to consider applying for the job. So

40:07

was she just messing with him? I am confused.

40:10

That actually brings me to the second thing which is I love

40:13

that they put you into that interim higher

40:15

up position. And I'm sure you did well. Well

40:17

enough to train the next person anyway. But

40:19

it doesn't sound like you have enough data

40:22

to really know how well you performed

40:24

there. Maybe you crushed it or maybe

40:26

you weren't quite what they needed in that

40:29

role. Or maybe you were solid but just

40:31

need more experience to really thrive there and your boss's

40:33

word for that is suffering and she's just crap

40:35

at articulating what you actually want. Or she

40:38

doesn't necessarily have the ability to put her

40:40

finger on it so she's labeling it something

40:42

else. To me the biggest concern here

40:44

isn't that you weren't paid extra or

40:46

interviewed for the role. It's that they're not

40:49

even giving you the data that you need to work

40:51

on yourself. Now if your boss had said, look

40:54

I know you want that job. You did well but

40:56

you have a few things to learn. You need to see

40:58

some more situations around here. You need to

41:00

be more connected in the industry. You

41:02

need to develop XYZ qualities. Here's

41:05

how you can do that specifically. Okay

41:07

then I would actually be encouraged because that's

41:09

how you show respect to an employee. By giving

41:11

them the gift of meaningful feedback

41:13

and bosses don't give meaningful

41:15

feedback to people they don't want to see rise

41:18

up.

41:18

It's too much work.

41:19

So not getting a promotion, it's

41:22

not always bad. What matters is how

41:24

a boss communicates that decision to you.

41:26

How they invest in you. And yeah she

41:29

did say do these trainings join some

41:31

boards go get your PhD. So that's something

41:33

I guess. It's a little nebulous and

41:36

with the PhD specifically it frankly

41:38

it sounds reckless and ultimately irrelevant.

41:42

So are you not being respected?

41:45

Well potentially if your boss

41:47

isn't giving you the information you need to be a

41:49

great candidate. Although respect is kind of

41:51

a squishy concept that can sometimes

41:53

be a little bit more about ego probably than

41:56

anything else. I would frame it more like

41:58

am I being taken seriously. Seriously, am

42:01

I being valued? Do these people

42:03

genuinely want me to succeed? Those

42:06

questions will get you better answers. So

42:08

here's my advice. Go get the feedback

42:11

you need. Ask your boss directly

42:13

and other senior people at your company what you

42:15

need to do to rise up there. Ask them

42:18

how much experience matters at this place, what

42:20

this whole suffering concept is about. See how they

42:22

respond. If they hit you again with the

42:24

PhD thing, if they give you more

42:26

vague like, oh go to some training

42:28

and see some more layoffs, if they give you

42:30

that nonsense again, then that's probably

42:32

a sign that this company is, I don't know, lame, or

42:35

you just don't have the support you need there. And

42:37

if they really engage with you, if you

42:39

can put together a solid roadmap of milestones

42:42

and experiences and trainings to hit

42:44

in a way that will allow you to really grow, then

42:47

I think you can feel more secure about sticking around. Agreed

42:50

completely, but if they don't engage with you like

42:52

that, then you need to ask yourself, why

42:54

am I not taken seriously here? It's

42:57

possible that your boss really is just being selfish

42:59

and keeping you where you're most useful to her, but

43:01

it's also possible that you're not earning her support

43:04

for some other reason that you're not aware of. Maybe

43:07

you really do need more experience. You did

43:09

say that you're young. There is something to be

43:11

said for being a little bit older, having more

43:13

maturity, because you've just seen more things.

43:16

Or maybe your relationships at this company are not quite

43:18

as strong as they should be. Or you're sending certain

43:20

signals of your own and you're not realizing it. Like,

43:23

for example, again, this need to be respected.

43:26

There's also this other thing you mentioned that you felt like

43:29

being passed over was an insult

43:31

to your abilities and your knowledge, which I

43:33

can sort of understand, but interpreting

43:36

this turn of events as a slap

43:38

in the face, as opposed to, you

43:40

know, an opportunity to figure out why it

43:42

didn't work out, that might also be

43:45

sending your boss a signal that you don't intend.

43:47

You mean like he's a little bitter or

43:49

he has a little bit of entitlement about

43:51

not being treated a certain way or something like that? Something

43:54

like that. And I think that's up to him to decide.

43:56

He knows himself best. But look, you're not wrong

43:58

to feel frustrated. wrong to be disappointed,

44:01

you're confused. I mean, all of that is fair. But

44:04

these are a few other things that I would definitely

44:06

take a look at before you decide whether to

44:09

jump ship. I totally agree, Gabe. If

44:11

he answers those questions honestly, ideally

44:13

with some good feedback from the people around him, then

44:16

I think he'll have a good sense of whether he's being truly

44:19

blocked or whether he just needs to grow a little

44:21

more and try again. And that is totally fair. But

44:23

listen, if you do decide that you need to leave in order to

44:25

advance, don't be too afraid about starting

44:27

over. That fear is never as real as it

44:29

seems. We never really truly start

44:32

over after a transition. We carry

44:34

over all the assets we developed, knowledge,

44:37

relationships, skills, experience,

44:39

including the experience of being blocked and frustrated.

44:41

That's valuable too. I know a lot of people are like, it's a different

44:44

industry, it's a different place, none of my stuff applies.

44:46

It's just never true. Right. There's

44:48

a difference between starting over and

44:50

turning over a new leaf. Exactly. I

44:52

would also check out a couple articles we did on this

44:55

topic. One is about the best way to land

44:57

a promotion. The other is called Signs You're

44:59

Not Well-Liked at Work and What to Do About

45:01

It. Not saying you're not well-liked, I'm

45:03

sure you're awesome, but some of the ideas in

45:05

there will help you diagnose what's really going on.

45:07

Link to both of those articles in the show notes

45:10

for you. So go do some homework, treat

45:12

this as an opportunity to learn, which you

45:14

might as well since it's happening whether you like it or not.

45:17

And then if you do jump ship, you'll

45:19

do it with full confidence that it's the right move. So

45:21

good luck. You know what your cagey,

45:23

self-interested, PhD obsessed boss

45:25

doesn't deserve? The fine

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now back to Feedback Friday. Okay,

48:09

next up. Dear Jordan and

48:11

Gabe, I recently moved from working

48:13

in a bedside nursing position to a

48:16

process development slash educational

48:18

role after going to grad school and discovering

48:20

a new passion for nursing informatics.

48:23

Basically, the integration of technology

48:26

with patient care. It's a very

48:28

exciting field and the possibilities

48:30

are endless. While

48:33

I'm very excited about this new career path, I'm

48:35

nervous about the fact that it's a complete

48:38

change in every way. After 13

48:40

years of being in the trenches working as a critical

48:42

care and rapid response nurse during the

48:45

intensity of the pandemic, exhausting

48:47

myself working 12 to 16-hour shifts

48:49

day and night, these things become a badge

48:52

of honor. Now I'm looking at a 9 to 5

48:54

type position that will not take everything out of me

48:56

and that will give me less reason to feel like

48:58

I've earned my downtime. I'm

49:01

also giving up the immediate gratification

49:04

of hands-on care. Right now I come

49:06

in, I fix problems, I make my patients

49:08

feel comfortable, and then I leave knowing

49:11

that I accomplished a set of tasks and

49:13

made someone's day tangibly better. Informatics

49:16

is not a world of immediate gratification

49:19

and takes away the everyday meaning of my work

49:21

in that regard. My identity

49:23

has been the badass hardworking nurse for

49:26

so long that I don't know how to

49:28

be a different kind of person. The enormity

49:30

of it all is throwing me for a loop.

49:33

How do I move from the highs and lows

49:35

of these crazy all-consuming shifts

49:38

to a steadier pace? And how do I

49:40

find satisfaction in my new line of

49:42

work? Signed, saying

49:44

goodbye to the highs and lows while becoming

49:46

a data nerd who goes with the flow. Well

49:49

first of all, congrats on carving out this

49:51

awesome new career. You're so passionate about nursing

49:53

informatics. I love that

49:56

you're fired up about that. I love that it's going to give

49:58

you a much-needed change of pace.

49:59

an actual life

50:00

of your own, amazing.

50:02

So

50:03

what you're struggling with is interesting

50:05

and it's something that anyone who makes a big

50:07

career transition deals with, especially

50:10

from a super intense line of work like

50:13

law enforcement, emergency

50:15

services, finance, anything really. There's

50:17

just a few layers to this transition and the

50:20

first one is just the mental emotional

50:22

aspects of this new role. It

50:25

sounds to me like you've been working super hard

50:27

for a long time, you've been running on adrenaline,

50:29

on pure willpower, being a rapid

50:31

response nurse during the pandemic, that's no joke.

50:34

So moving into this behind-the-scenes

50:37

role, it's going to be a huge shift

50:39

and you might feel like you're not as stimulated

50:42

or fulfilled in a certain way but I

50:44

actually don't think that's a bad thing

50:47

because your body and your mind have probably been

50:49

through a lot for so many years.

50:51

You might sort of be detoxing from

50:54

those adrenaline dumps and late nights and

50:56

that trench warfare mentality. So

50:58

if you miss it, on one level that

51:00

might just be your body going, wait am I not getting that

51:02

constant but epinephrine anymore?

51:05

Your brain might be going, wait I don't have to operate

51:07

in crisis mode all the time but you probably

51:10

need that, it's probably really important.

51:12

The second layer to this is the whole

51:14

meaning thing and this I really gave.

51:17

You thrived as a nurse because you found taking care

51:19

of people and making their day better,

51:21

you found that fulfilling which is amazing. You're

51:23

exactly the kind of person who should be in healthcare and

51:26

now you're shifting to a new role, a new

51:28

sector where the meaning you derive,

51:31

it's still there but you're a few steps

51:33

removed, it's a little more abstract. So

51:36

part of this transition is embracing

51:38

that new source of meaning and just letting go

51:40

of the old one. You might not get that

51:42

immediate hit of gratification in this

51:44

new job and by the way, getting that hit of immediate

51:47

gratification, that might also be

51:49

another quote-unquote drug you'll have

51:51

to recover from. It's not all bad

51:53

but it can be addictive but in this new role

51:55

you'll have an opportunity to experience

51:58

new sources of meaning. would imagine. Yes,

52:01

and not just new sources of meaning, but also new rhythms

52:04

of meaning. In your old role, the rhythm

52:06

was constant, relentless, it was quick.

52:09

In this new role, the rhythm might be more

52:11

spaced out, more prolonged, probably

52:13

a lot calmer, but to Jordan's point, that

52:15

is not a bad thing. You might work

52:18

on a project in nursing informatics for, I

52:20

don't know, six months, nine months, and at the

52:22

end of that time, you'll have a whole new

52:24

AI slash data analytics

52:27

program put in place, and tens of thousands,

52:29

if not more, patients' lives will

52:32

be improved as a result. You might

52:34

not have eased somebody's pain right then

52:36

and there in the moment, but you'll have contributed

52:38

to even more people's health over a much

52:40

longer period of time. And even if you're not looking

52:43

right at them, I really do think you're going

52:45

to feel that. So I would

52:47

trust that you're going to find a gratification in

52:49

this new role that is different, yes,

52:52

but just as meaningful. And I think over

52:54

time, possibly even more meaningful. For

52:57

sure. And she can also create

52:59

that meaning by appreciating the impact

53:02

nursing informatics has on so many people.

53:04

Yeah, I think creating that meaning is also part of

53:07

her onboarding process and settling into

53:09

this new role. The other layer, though, we

53:11

have to talk about is the identity piece. Like

53:13

you said, you've been this badass, hardworking nurse

53:15

for so long, you don't know how to be a different kind of professional.

53:18

That's another thing that you're going

53:20

to have to let go of the image you have

53:22

of yourself as one kind of professional and

53:25

what that identity gave you. It sounds to me like

53:27

being strong and tireless

53:30

and very effective. That gave

53:32

you a lot. It gave you a sense of power. It

53:34

gave you a sense of usefulness, of

53:37

importance, and maybe also

53:39

a sense of control in what I imagine is a very

53:42

chaotic field. And all of that is

53:44

so meaningful and it's totally legit. But

53:47

when you develop a sense of self based on certain

53:49

qualities and then you switch fields that

53:51

have different qualities, you have to find

53:54

new ones or you have to be less attached to the old

53:56

ones. So in this new role, I bet

53:58

you're going to develop a lot of new assets. aspects of your

54:00

identity. There's going to be new insight.

54:03

You're going to be a stronger leader. You're going to get

54:05

to flex your intelligence, your creativity,

54:08

your ability to work on processes. You're

54:10

also going to be getting to educate other people. And

54:13

all of that will also be fulfilling

54:15

in ways that, again, you can't even imagine yet.

54:18

So look, if you miss your old job for the first

54:20

few months, I wouldn't panic about it. It doesn't

54:22

mean you made the wrong decision. Like Jordan said,

54:24

it'll take you a little time to transition, and

54:27

that's normal. You kind of have to

54:29

mourn the old job, the old meaning,

54:31

the old identity to make room for

54:33

all of the new ones. So I would give yourself

54:36

some time and space to do that too. Which

54:38

sounds like she's going to have so much more of time

54:40

and space. I mean, that's what I'm excited about for

54:42

her. She's actually going to have a life. The way

54:44

she fills all those hours she never had before is

54:46

going to be super meaningful too. Meaning

54:49

doesn't only have to come from work. And

54:51

I'm excited for you. Like I said, I'm super proud of you for

54:53

going back to school and making the transition. I know

54:56

your passion for the field is going to help take you to some

54:58

great places. And it's probably going to add some

55:00

years back to your life and actually

55:02

let you enjoy that life. So

55:04

good luck.

55:06

All right,

55:06

before we sign off here, and sorry to bring

55:08

the house down a little bit, but I really wanted to talk about

55:10

this. As you might have read in the news

55:13

a few weeks ago, a woman named Samantha

55:15

Wohl was found dead in Lafayette

55:18

Park, which is just east of downtown Detroit,

55:20

not too far from where I grew up. She

55:23

was the president of a synagogue. And that's probably

55:25

what's ringing some bells for you right now. She worked in

55:27

politics before that. She was also a really

55:30

good close friend of mine in college. So

55:33

apparently she attended a wedding and

55:35

then she was just stabbed inside

55:37

her home that night, wandered outside and essentially

55:39

died in front of her home. Obviously,

55:42

I was stunned to read this and

55:44

incredibly saddened. It's just beyond

55:47

tragic. I have very warm

55:49

memories of Samantha. She was an incredibly

55:51

compassionate person. She actually made me think

55:53

about life in a more compassionate way without ever

55:56

being judgy or sanctimonious. I remember

55:58

once we went on this trip. to Washington

56:00

DC and Samantha, she

56:03

bought a huge bag of candy

56:05

for the trip and she shared it with everybody and

56:07

then she goes don't eat it all. I wanna save most of

56:10

this for any homeless people that we meet. I've

56:12

never heard anything like this in my life at that point, right? This

56:14

young person spent her own money

56:17

in college when we were all broke as hell in

56:19

the first place, we were probably like 19 years old, knowing

56:22

people in need would ask her for money or

56:24

food and she didn't wanna walk around empty

56:26

handed. That is the kind of person

56:29

that she was, just a very kind and

56:31

thoughtful soul in this very basic way.

56:34

So yeah, I'm thinking about her and her family

56:36

today as members of the tribe like to

56:38

say, may her memory be a blessing. And

56:40

I know my memories of her are very

56:43

special and I know she'll be missed by

56:45

a lot of people. And

56:47

on that note, it's Thanksgiving weekend here

56:49

in the States and traditionally, this is a moment

56:51

to reflect on the things we are grateful for and

56:54

I know that is a weird pivot from that

56:56

incredibly dark story, I have realized that. But

56:58

I wanted to say something about Thanksgiving and

57:01

I didn't wanna sound super cheesy or

57:03

preachy, it's not really my style as you

57:05

guys know, but gratitude is

57:07

a theme here on the show

57:09

in that non, it's a very practical way and

57:12

it's just such a dark time in the world, obviously

57:14

in big ways with what's happening in Israel

57:16

and Gaza right now and in ways closer

57:19

to home, like with Samantha. And so I

57:21

guess I find myself wanting to say

57:24

that it can be really hard to be grateful

57:27

when things are chaotic, when there's war

57:29

and there's death and there's tragedy and dysfunction

57:32

all around us. And I don't

57:34

really believe in being Pollyanna-ish

57:36

and burying my head in the sand under the guise

57:38

of, like being grateful, man. But

57:41

it seems to me that our job always,

57:44

but especially these days, is to make

57:46

space for both, to

57:49

recognize that there is real pain and darkness

57:51

in the world and there's a lot

57:54

to be grateful for. For my part,

57:56

I'm grateful to do this show, to

57:58

be a part of your lives, to... to interview

58:00

fascinating people, to become a little

58:03

smarter, a little more informed every week

58:05

and to do all of that with my

58:07

amazing friends and family, my team, my wife,

58:10

my kids, my peers, my parents, who actually

58:12

just moved across the street from me to be closer

58:14

to us. I really am very fortunate and

58:16

I'm especially grateful for you, all of

58:18

you who listen and write in with your stories

58:21

and your responses and even your criticism, none

58:24

of this would be possible without you. So

58:26

thank you very much. Honestly, I don't

58:28

have anything super profound to say about this. I guess

58:30

that's kind of the point. I just wanted to take a moment

58:33

to take stock of all the good and invite

58:35

you to do the same because

58:37

it can be really hard to do that sometimes. And

58:39

if you don't have some of these things,

58:42

that can be hard.

58:43

But then the question I like to ask is, what

58:46

do I have? What is going well?

58:49

Even if it's one thing, one person,

58:51

and spend some time appreciating that

58:54

because there's something about the human

58:56

mind that wants to fixate on what we

58:58

don't have, what is going wrong.

59:01

And that's why a little gratitude really does go

59:03

a long way. And on a practical level,

59:06

if you want to make some changes in your life, which

59:08

is what Feedback Friday is all about, it's

59:10

impossible to build on what we don't

59:13

have. We can only build on what

59:15

we do have, even if it's

59:17

not everything that we want, all

59:19

of us. And that's why I'm struggling right

59:21

now. You've got something. Relationships.

59:24

Opportunities.

59:25

Advantages. Skills. Experiences.

59:28

So let's take stock of that

59:30

and start from there.

59:32

All right. I maybe sounded a little cheesy

59:34

slash preachy there. Sorry about that. I

59:37

really do believe this though. I like that. So

59:39

I'm going to take that into my weekend. I hope you

59:41

do too. Whether you're celebrating Thanksgiving

59:43

or not, shout out to the Canadians who like do it two

59:45

weeks earlier for whatever reason. I appreciate you

59:47

guys sending you all a big hug

59:49

and we'll see you next week. Hope

59:51

you all enjoyed that. Don't forget to check out the episodes

59:54

with Chris DeArmit on Plastics and the new

59:56

remix mashup of our previous episode

59:58

with Massab Hassan Yousaf from Three Years. Definitely

1:00:00

check those out if you haven't done so yet. The

1:00:02

best things that have happened in my life and business have

1:00:04

come through my network, the circle of people I know, like,

1:00:07

and trust. I'm grateful for that as well. Our

1:00:09

six-minute networking course is free. There's

1:00:11

no catch. It's not gross or smoothie.

1:00:13

It is not gonna make you cringe. It's all free on

1:00:15

the Thinkific platform at jordanharbinger.com

1:00:18

slash course. I want you to dig the well before you get thirsty.

1:00:20

Build those relationships before you need them. I

1:00:22

get a decent amount of emails from people saying, so

1:00:24

I don't need to network. I'm a teacher. I'm

1:00:26

in the military. I got a government employee job.

1:00:29

I'm a stay-at-home parent. But an elementary

1:00:31

school teacher recently wrote me saying, they

1:00:33

are so wrong. I've gotten students for private

1:00:36

lessons, summer jobs, tutoring. I've also gotten

1:00:38

the down low on new job openings

1:00:40

that would be opening in my district and hooked

1:00:42

up very casual acquaintances with similar

1:00:45

opportunities with tons of free teaching materials.

1:00:47

I cannot stress how important networking is

1:00:49

for a teacher, and that is a direct quote. This

1:00:52

stuff really does work for anyone in any

1:00:54

field who wants to be more connected and generate

1:00:56

more opportunities all around. So come check

1:00:59

it out, jordanharbinger.com slash course. And

1:01:01

the newsletter, of course, as well, jordanharbinger.com

1:01:03

slash news. We go over an old episode

1:01:05

and rip out the takeaways and deliver them to your inbox,

1:01:08

jordanharbinger.com slash news. Show

1:01:10

notes and transcripts are on the website, advertisers,

1:01:12

deals, discounts, and ways to support the show, all

1:01:14

at jordanharbinger.com slash deals.

1:01:17

I'm at jordanharbinger on Twitter and Instagram.

1:01:19

You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. Gabe's over

1:01:22

on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on

1:01:24

Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This

1:01:26

show is created in association with Podcast One.

1:01:29

My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson,

1:01:31

Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Emilio Campo,

1:01:33

and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice

1:01:35

and opinions are our own, and I'm a lawyer

1:01:37

but not your lawyer. So do your own research before

1:01:40

implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember,

1:01:42

we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those

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you love, and if you found this episode useful, please share

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it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today.

1:01:49

In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear

1:01:52

on the show so you can live what you learn,

1:01:54

and we'll see you next time.

1:01:58

You're about to hear a preview of the Jordan.

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to

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an episode. What's great is if something

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caught your attention during an episode, you can bookmark

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the timestamp and take notes within the app. That's

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kind of neat. Create multiple playlists, whether

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you're looking to elevate your finances, progress your

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career, or make your daily commute a

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bit more enlightening. I curated a public playlist

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featuring my favorite episodes, well, some of

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my favorite episodes from the Jordan Harbinger show. It's

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a little starter pack there for you. Check out the link

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