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1:25

Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your

1:27

host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm

1:29

here with Feedback Friday producer, Guru

1:31

of Goodwill, generously granting golden guidance.

1:33

Gabriel Mizrahi. Wow, alliteration on

1:36

point today. You know how we do. Gotta

1:38

hit those consonants way too many times, baby.

1:40

On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the

1:42

stories, secrets and skills of the world's most

1:44

fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical

1:46

advice that you can use to impact your

1:48

own life and those around you. Our mission

1:50

is to help you become a better informed,

1:52

more critical thinker. During the week, we have

1:54

long-form conversations with a variety of

1:56

amazing folks, from hostage negotiators to

1:59

Russian spies traffickers, astronauts, CEOs,

2:01

generals, and tech luminaries. On

2:04

Fridays though, we share stories, offer advice,

2:06

weave together the OMG and the LOL,

2:08

and of course mercilessly roast Gabriel for,

2:10

well, first of all, cross-dressing for the

2:12

most important conversations of his life, apparently.

2:15

I am never going to live that

2:17

one down. No. First of all, we

2:19

got like a hundred emails about it

2:21

and DMs and LinkedIn messages. So no,

2:24

as long as my name is on this podcast,

2:26

the Vermillion shirt or shall I say blouse, I'll

2:29

live on forever. Do you still have that thing,

2:31

by the way? Oh, no, no, no. It's long

2:34

gone. Probably keeping a very happy lady warm

2:36

somewhere in the world. There's a librarian somewhere

2:38

that's like, I just love this. I

2:41

can't believe I found this at the Icket Will.

2:43

Some lady wearing it to her knitting circle is

2:45

so happy with this purchase. What

2:47

a philanthropist you are. I hope you washed

2:49

off all the existential dread sweat out of

2:51

it before donating it to the

2:54

single sweat before donating it to Goodwill.

2:56

No, I left all the shingle pustules

2:58

in there when

3:02

I gave it to Goodwill. It's funny,

3:04

somebody wrote me asking if the wool suit that

3:06

I wore on top of it was also a

3:08

man's or was that also a woman's? I can

3:10

tell you with 100% certainty

3:13

that the suit was a man's.

3:15

And I know that because my pantyhose

3:17

underneath it fits so well. There's

3:22

no way that that was for another calendar,

3:24

but thank you for checking. I appreciate that.

3:26

Oh, Jordan, another funny thing happened this week. I wanted

3:28

to tell you. So the other day I

3:30

was putting on my bracelets, you know, the ones,

3:32

the yoga cult guru. Yeah, the CDSM bands

3:34

or whatever that I see you wearing sometimes.

3:37

I don't know what they are. Same

3:39

set as those bracelets. Yeah. So I was pulling it

3:41

closed and I have to do with my teeth, you

3:43

know. How on brand is that? Okay.

3:47

I was pulling it closed with my teeth and the

3:49

band snapped and all the beads went flying everywhere. So

3:51

I had to go take it to my bead shop

3:53

to get it repaired. Your bead shop?

3:55

Yeah, I got a bead guy. You got a bead guy, you

3:57

know, you got to have a bead shop when you live

4:00

this lifestyle. Of course, wow. You have a

4:02

bead guy. So I brought it to

4:04

my favorite bead shop in Santa Monica. It's this

4:06

place called Beadas on Ocean Park, and it's owned

4:08

by this super sweet couple, Shannon and Mike. They

4:11

sell beads and gems and jewelry and incense,

4:13

or you can sit there and you can

4:15

make your own piece and they'll help you.

4:18

And they also host, you know, like parties,

4:20

birthday parties, bachelorette parties, events. Basically

4:22

I love this place. I have it on Earth. As

4:24

long as they don't claim anything is magical, I'm fine

4:27

with it. But I'm still wrapping my head around the

4:29

fact that my co-host has a bead guy. Bead

4:32

guys, bead guys. Bead

4:34

people, plural. Excuse me. So the last

4:36

time my bracelet broke, Shannon fixed it

4:38

and we sat there together while she

4:40

repaired it and we had this really cool

4:43

chat about life and herb and beads. Old dissertation

4:45

and how she got into beads. Yeah. And

4:47

I was like, okay, you're officially my bead person. No, I love

4:50

you guys. So anyway, I dropped the bracelet

4:52

off last week and then a few days ago I picked it

4:54

up and Mike, Shannon's husband

4:56

was like, hey, I knew your name sounded

4:58

familiar. I listen to feedback Friday. Oh,

5:01

no way. He's a show fan. That's awesome. I

5:03

feel 1% more worse about making fun

5:05

of the fact that they're your bead people since the

5:08

show fans. But I stand by the

5:10

rest of it. So cool though, right? And they

5:12

were so nice. They actually repaired the bracelet free of charge,

5:14

which was so kind of them. They didn't have to do

5:16

that because they had done it once before and they stand

5:18

by their work 100%. And

5:21

then I bought like $30 worth

5:23

of incense for my trip to Brazil. I'm

5:25

leaving on soon and they have the coolest

5:27

fragrances. I never heard of some of these

5:29

scents. They're like fragrances I didn't even know

5:31

existed. Yeah, you're just not doing yourself any

5:33

favors in the cliche department game. But I

5:35

can get behind good incense. The problem is

5:37

there's so much bad incense that smells like,

5:40

you know, bathroom air fresheners and you can

5:42

just tell it's toxic. But the good stuff is quite

5:44

nice. They had the good stuff. They had the bougie

5:46

stuff. Anyway, I'm hearing myself say all

5:48

this and I'm just like, I deserve all the roasts.

5:50

You do. Yeah, I know. But anyway, just to say,

5:52

if you live in LA and you need to repair

5:54

a bracelet or I don't know, you want to buy

5:57

some cool gems or you need a gift for somebody,

5:59

BETA's in San Monica, this place is awesome. And

6:01

shout out to Shannon Leonard and Michael Kang. Thank

6:03

you so much for listening to the show. You

6:06

guys are so sweet. And in addition to being

6:08

amazing at what you do, you guys are just

6:10

adorable and super sweet. And thank you for sending

6:12

me off to Brazil with a new bracelet and

6:14

enough funky incense to earn

6:17

an extra invasive pat down at airport security.

6:19

Because I'm a bee. It's going to be

6:21

dank in the TSA life. Yeah,

6:24

it's going to be quite the blend. Happy

6:26

to have you in the show fam, Mike,

6:28

and Mike and Shannon. Thanks for keeping

6:31

my co-host be-brace-lited. So,

6:34

hey, before we dive in, I also remembered

6:36

a funny story this week. It's maybe a

6:38

slightly different type of adventure. Years

6:41

ago, when I was in my 20s, I

6:43

took this ride today. Is it called Zim

6:45

Ride? And it was this app. Oh, you

6:47

remember? Okay. Because I was like, nobody used

6:49

this. That kind of became Lyft, right? Or

6:51

was Lyft or something? It did. Yeah. So

6:53

for people who don't know, it was a

6:55

ride share service where people would catch rides

6:57

with other people from one city to another.

6:59

And Zim Ride, it became Lyft. I don't know

7:01

how they made money. I don't remember him paying

7:03

me through the app. Maybe he did. And then

7:05

Lyft sold Zim Ride, and now it doesn't exist

7:07

anymore. So I put my car on there and

7:09

I'm like, hey, I'm going to Vegas on this

7:11

date. Like maybe this will work. Then I have

7:13

to drive by myself. And he paid for half

7:15

the gas. Or maybe it was all the gas.

7:17

I forgot. Wait, you matched with a guy? So

7:19

you matched with a guy who was also going to Vegas. Yeah. He's

7:22

like, I need to go to Vegas and I'll hitch a ride with

7:24

you. You both got it. Okay, cool. And he's like, I pay you

7:26

a certain amount of fee and then

7:28

also half the gas. I can't exactly remember

7:30

the fee arrangements are elevated here because he drove

7:32

all the way with my blessing

7:34

because there was a ton of traffic. We're

7:37

going to Vegas on like a Thursday or a

7:39

Friday. And we're talking the whole time. And this

7:41

dude, he looked like Jack Morrissey kind

7:44

of. He was just really, really strong looking

7:46

dude who was kind of... I mean, he

7:48

had a look about him and I was

7:50

like, all right, well, okay. It's

7:53

kind of funny because we'd stop for gas and I'd be like, do

7:55

you mind giving me the keys just so like you don't leave without

7:57

me? Because I don't really know you. And he's like, sure, no problem.

7:59

Whatever. And he was really cool about

8:01

that. I felt kind of bad asking, but

8:04

it's like, oh, here's my car. So she

8:06

took this crazy back route to Vegas. She's

8:08

like, look, man, we can take whatever route

8:10

you want, but I know a route around

8:12

this traffic. So he took this back route

8:14

around some literal dirt roads and like sandy

8:17

patches in the roads, and it shaved a

8:19

ton of time off the ride and was

8:21

amazing. And I really wish I'd saved the

8:23

route somehow. But the whole time I'm

8:25

like texting my girlfriend at the time and I'm like,

8:27

FYI, like, here's where I am and this is a

8:29

mile marker because I don't know, like we're

8:32

in this weird area and she's like, uh,

8:34

okay. And I like lose service occasionally. And

8:36

then halfway through the ride, we're in the

8:38

middle of the desert. There's maybe like a

8:40

trailer on the horizon and like cacti, literal

8:43

cacti and nothing else in one lane road.

8:46

And I'm like, how do you know

8:48

about this route? And he goes, oh, it's

8:51

quite a story, you know, and he like

8:53

won't tell me. And I'm like, for real,

8:55

though, how do you know the route? And

8:57

like, as we get back into civilization ish,

9:00

I mean, and I'm by civilization, I mean,

9:02

now there's trailer parks in the distance and

9:04

like bikers are passing us and I don't

9:06

mean cyclists. I mean like motorbikes, the packs

9:08

of motorbikes. And he goes, yeah, well, okay.

9:12

We know each other for a few hours now. You

9:14

know, we're cool. We're going to Vegas. I used to

9:16

run meth with a biker gang and I used to

9:18

take this route with the Mongols

9:21

or wherever it was, it was like

9:23

the Mongols or something like a biker

9:25

gang. Yeah, like a literal sons of

9:27

anarchy type of gang. And I'm

9:29

like, oh, cool, cool, cool. Yeah,

9:31

I'm driving to Las Vegas with a

9:33

former gang member drug dealer who's probably

9:35

disappeared more than one person right out

9:37

in this very area of the desert

9:40

and various holes that were dug for

9:42

like mineshafts 100 years ago and are

9:44

still there. Like great, great, great, tight,

9:46

tight. Yeah, season five of Breaking Bad.

9:49

Yeah, totally fine over here. But it turned

9:51

out, of course, that he had left all

9:53

that behind. He owned a motorcycle shop and

9:55

he had kids and a wife and lived

9:57

in, I guess I could say Henderson,

10:00

which is like an upper middle class suburb of

10:02

Las Vegas. And yeah, so

10:04

I'm lucky I'm not six feet under in the desert.

10:06

But I have to say that guy was really interesting.

10:08

Dude, you should have him on the show. I should

10:11

have had him on the podcast flat out. I even

10:13

thought about it because this is probably like 2012 or

10:15

2013. I

10:17

was doing the show. He would have

10:19

definitely fit into like today's version of the

10:21

show. But I would

10:24

never do anything like that again.

10:26

I filed that pretty much immediately

10:28

under dumb kid ideas. And

10:30

keeping myself open to new experiences, okay, it's

10:32

brought me a lot of color to my

10:34

life. You and I, we went

10:36

to North Korea a couple times and stuff. But I

10:38

also realized that I could have gotten killed doing some

10:40

of this stuff. That's kind of my brand, I guess.

10:42

But now that I've got kids, that stuff is way

10:45

behind me. But I think about that

10:47

now and I'm like, oh my God, I hope my

10:49

kids don't do some stupid crap like that. Yeah, in

10:51

a way, this is a nightmare. And in another way,

10:53

it's a great endorsement for Zimrod. That's right. I'm

10:56

glad that it doesn't exist anymore. You probably won't get buried in

10:58

a hole in the dust, but no guarantees. What

11:00

we do guarantee is the personal

11:02

paper half a gas on the way here on

11:05

tiny death. All

11:07

right, Gabe, what's the first thing out of a

11:09

mailbag? Hi, Jordan and Gabe. My husband

11:11

and I have been married for eight years, have known each other

11:13

for over 10, and have a

11:16

seven-year-old child together. My husband claims

11:18

to have been addicted to video games

11:20

since he was three. And

11:22

I didn't understand or accept that for a very long

11:24

time. He also says that he's

11:27

addicted to alcohol and all kinds of

11:29

technology, but can also get really fixated

11:31

on things like collecting CDs or playing

11:33

board games. He also has

11:35

some major issues with sex. He

11:38

disregards my lack of interest, my

11:40

mood, or my non-consent practically all

11:42

the time. Oh, boy, the last

11:45

comment. So that's dark. Can't

11:47

tell how overtly violent this is, but even if

11:49

it's not, I mean, this is like, you know,

11:51

it's not okay. Sorry, dear, this. He tried therapy

11:54

a few times and for the last three

11:56

years has been doing one specializing in

11:58

addictions. that

12:00

I should start therapy for my codependency

12:02

and I did. I never

12:04

realized that I was codependent before but apparently

12:06

I'm showing some symptoms along with chronic anxiety.

12:08

Hmm. Well, that's a big discovery. Good on

12:11

you for being willing to give therapy a

12:13

try, confronting this stuff. That's excellent. Codependency and

12:15

addiction often go hand in hand so I

12:17

can appreciate that you're doing the work here

12:19

too. It'd be really easy to be like,

12:21

well, you're the addict so you do therapy.

12:23

Right. And just sit there and wait for

12:25

results that may or may not come. She deserves a lot of

12:27

credit for that. I agree. So she goes

12:30

on, we also started couples therapy together but

12:32

I can't say I really see any progress.

12:34

And I could say the same about

12:36

my husband's individual therapy. He always half-asses

12:38

things that require real effort. We spend

12:40

most of our time there discussing his

12:42

latest benders and he gets really frustrated

12:44

because it feels like he's always the

12:46

bad guy. Hmm. Okay.

12:50

Oh, it feels like he's always the bad guy or he

12:52

is kind of the bad... whatever. Takes I

12:54

feel like I'm always the bad guy when I

12:56

sexually assault you and don't listen to anything you

12:58

say. Hey, go out all night and don't

13:00

come home until 10 in the morning. Takes two to tango when

13:03

I'm abusing you but okay. Exactly. In

13:05

our daily life, we tend to go through a cycle.

13:07

As long as we're having sex, everything

13:09

is quote unquote fine. Whenever we

13:11

stop, he becomes very passive aggressive,

13:13

takes revenge and gives me the

13:15

silent treatment. In between the

13:18

better days, he constantly criticizes me,

13:20

double-checks everything I do and undermines

13:22

whatever I say. And when he attacks

13:24

me with the most absurd arguments, he once said he

13:26

was angry with me because we went to the beach

13:28

and it started to rain. And I try to defend

13:31

myself. He says I'm gaslighting him. He

13:33

always brings me down and I

13:35

feel like something died in me the last few

13:37

years. I think it undermines whatever I say. Oh,

13:39

what did I say? I'm just kidding. I'm undermining

13:41

things that... Oh, because I said undermines. Yeah,

13:44

see? Oh, I got you.

13:46

God, I have to do everything, man. God.

13:48

God, you suck. Take revenge on me, Jordan.

13:50

Terrible. Whatever. No, but this is so, so

13:52

sad. Deeply sad. I don't know what else

13:54

to say. It's really sad. I'd been treated

13:57

like this by your partner sucks. Last year,

13:59

my husband said... that our child

14:01

quote-unquote ruined his life and

14:03

continues to do so and that he hates him

14:05

because he takes most of my attention away from

14:07

my husband. I was really close to leaving

14:09

him after that. Oh, what a detail.

14:12

Wow. So, okay. I –

14:14

that – this guy is kind of a

14:16

POS. I can have some empathy for somebody

14:18

dealing with an addiction. Sure. Someone

14:21

dealing with a possible personality disorder, I

14:23

guess, but saying your child is ruining

14:25

your life because you then don't

14:27

get 100% of your partner's attention?

14:30

What are you talking about? Parenting

14:32

101 is you are no longer the

14:34

most important thing in the world. That's supposed to be kind

14:36

of a good thing. It was a good thing for me.

14:38

Man, this guy sucks. He's a man-child, but I

14:40

almost – there's a tiny, dark corner of my

14:43

brain where there's a little bit of sympathy because

14:45

you're broken. I remember the father from a few

14:47

weeks ago who was like, oh,

14:49

yeah, your child doesn't need a relationship with

14:51

me. He's got you. These guys are broken

14:53

in some sort of weird way because fatherhood

14:55

is supposed to open up your heart and

14:58

everything. And I – you know

15:00

me. I'm not like a woo-woo guy. But

15:02

that happens when you have a kid. And

15:04

if it doesn't happen to you, you're defective

15:06

in this weird way that you maybe can't

15:08

fix. And so I have a

15:10

little bit of sympathy for the guy, but

15:12

otherwise, he's a total jackpot clearly. Once in

15:14

a while, my husband asks me if I

15:17

think he's narcissistic, to which I always reply

15:19

that I'm not a therapist, I'm not qualified

15:21

to diagnose him with anything. But whenever I

15:23

stumble upon something that describes a narcissistic person,

15:26

your podcast was actually my first source on

15:28

the topic. I can see my husband taking

15:30

most, if not all, of the boxes. I've

15:32

discussed leaving my husband many times with my

15:35

therapist, but I don't see how I can

15:37

make it happen. I earn less than

15:39

he does, and I wouldn't be able to afford rent

15:41

in our larger city. I'd obviously take my son with

15:44

me, but I can only see my husband cutting his

15:46

ties with him completely, just to spite me. I

15:48

mean, in a way, great good rins, but also I

15:50

understand the logistical concerns here. Right.

15:53

Well, not exactly father of the year at the moment,

15:55

Izzy. I don't know how much of a loss, but

15:57

it would still – yeah, that's a wound. So she

15:59

goes on. I'm really worried that my son

16:01

might lose his dad. My husband is not a

16:03

perfect father, but he has his moments. Gabe, her

16:05

loyalty and grace for this guy are

16:08

frankly starting to surprise me, and I have

16:10

to wonder if this is part of the

16:12

codependency. Right, or she's just trying to find

16:14

reasons to justify staying. Which I also understand.

16:16

Yeah, all of it, understandable. So she goes

16:18

on, I could move back to my hometown,

16:21

but I don't want to feel too dependent

16:23

on my parents, especially since my mom loves

16:25

to impose herself and can be difficult to

16:27

handle. Dude, where did my codependency come from?

16:29

Yeah, that's an interesting detail. Good point. So

16:31

she goes on, my relationship with my mom was

16:34

quite rocky when I was growing up, but it's

16:36

been better since I moved out, mostly because of

16:38

the distance I maintain. Also, I've dreamed of my

16:40

own house for a long time, but my husband

16:42

always considered it too much of a bother. Then,

16:45

when I was considering leaving him last year, he

16:47

pushed us into buying a flat that's not even

16:49

close to what I wanted. The

16:51

monthly payments devour my salary almost

16:54

entirely. Her salary, so she's

16:56

the one paying for it? That's

16:59

how she phrased it, so that makes me

17:01

think she's on the hook for these mortgage

17:03

payments. Well, this friggin' guy, man. I've tried

17:05

applying for other jobs to get a better

17:07

salary and potentially rent a flat, but all

17:09

I've been getting are rejections, and I've lost

17:11

my motivation. I feel unable to make

17:13

the move and leave. Last year,

17:15

I decided to start accepting and

17:17

appreciating what I have instead of

17:19

dragging myself down with what ifs

17:22

and missed opportunities, but I'm really

17:24

struggling with that. How do I start

17:26

accepting my life? Do I really

17:28

need to know if my husband is a

17:30

narcissist? Do you think I should press the

17:32

issue and possibly ask him to get diagnosed,

17:35

or should I just learn how to cope

17:37

with a narcissistic person no matter what? Signed,

17:39

depressed, oppressed, and tethered to this hot mess.

17:42

Oh, man, okay. Well, there's so much

17:44

going on in this story. First

17:46

of all, I am so sorry you ended

17:49

up with this person. You've painted a picture

17:51

of a very chaotic, very painful marriage on

17:53

so many levels. I was already wincing

17:55

when you talked about the addictions

17:57

and the possible slash probable sexual.

18:00

assaults, but then you get into

18:02

this stuff about him like dominating you, tearing

18:04

you down, he doesn't like your child, the

18:06

narcissism, the financial irresponsibility and manipulation. I'm just

18:08

like, gosh, this guy is a little bit

18:10

of a monster even if he's not that

18:13

way all the time. And you say that

18:15

something died in you in the

18:17

last few years and I believe you.

18:19

This is horrifying and deeply sad. That

18:22

said, I do appreciate that you've also tried to

18:24

work on your side of the street here, that

18:26

you're able to locate some empathy for your husband.

18:28

I think that's admirable. But at this point, I'm

18:31

afraid that these qualities are keeping you

18:33

stuck in a highly dysfunctional and emotionally

18:35

quite dangerous situation. So obviously, as

18:37

you can tell, I think you need to

18:39

leave. You gave it a real shot on

18:41

many levels. You're not getting any indication that

18:43

your husband is equally committed to this work.

18:46

Work, by the way, that he primarily needs

18:48

to do, although again, always, you know, again,

18:50

takes two to tango on some of this

18:52

stuff. At some point though, man, you got

18:54

to come to terms with the fact that

18:56

this is who your husband is and he's

18:58

probably not going to get better and that

19:00

you and your son deserve a whole lot

19:02

more. Now, I understand that there

19:04

are some very real obstacles to you leaving.

19:07

One main one being money.

19:09

And I hate that he's largely responsible for that, pushing

19:12

you to buy this flat right as you are about

19:14

to leave him, which actually, Gabriel, am I just sort

19:16

of like paranoid conspiratorial here? It almost seems like was

19:18

the timing of this and the pressure on this a

19:20

tactic to get her to stay? I don't know. I

19:22

think it might have been because he said that it

19:25

was always too much of a bother and then all

19:27

of a sudden she's like, I think I'm gonna leave

19:29

and he's like, oh, here's the apartment and you're gonna

19:31

pay for it and we're gonna take out a loan.

19:33

I mean, the timing is weird. It is and if

19:35

that's exactly how it went down, then there

19:38

you have it. And unfortunately, it might have worked. I think

19:40

it might have worked but you have to find a

19:42

way out of this situation. It might take a ton

19:44

of hard work. It might take a bunch of grit

19:46

more than you think you have in you. It might take

19:48

a while, might take years even but you have to do

19:50

it because the alternative is, I mean,

19:52

you know, it's this nightmare. So you

19:54

need to be patient, you need to

19:56

be driven and focused and you need

19:58

to be consistent and you have to

20:01

start pursuing the people and ideas and

20:03

resources to start charting your own path

20:05

in life. So friends, family, mentors, your

20:08

therapist, a support group, maybe like a

20:10

financial coach of some kind, books about

20:12

abuse and divorce and financial literacy, whatever

20:14

you need. And you need to start

20:17

asking for help and advice wherever you

20:19

go. And you need

20:21

to commit to capitalizing on that advice.

20:23

And I know that you've

20:25

gotten a lot of rejections recently. I know

20:27

how demoralizing that is. The fact that you're

20:29

even job hunting when your husband dominates you

20:31

in this way is quite remarkable actually. I

20:33

mean, it shows that you've also got a

20:36

ton of drive and resilience and you've got

20:38

some resourcefulness like maybe he doesn't know about

20:40

this because you're using some proton mail or

20:42

something like that. Good for you. But

20:44

you got to lick your wounds and you got

20:46

to keep applying. You got to ask the people

20:48

in your life for referrals and recommendations. You

20:50

have to take your relationships seriously because

20:53

they are the best asset that you

20:55

have. And I mean relationships with people

20:57

other than him. All that

20:59

6minutenetworking.com stuff that I talk about so

21:01

much, it's not just about getting ahead

21:03

in your career. I've literally heard from

21:05

multiple people who are able to escape

21:08

bad relationships or move to better countries

21:10

or get their children into great schools

21:12

because of these concepts and the drills

21:14

and stuff in there. So your relationships

21:16

really are everything. So look, I'm hocking

21:18

my own crap here, but 6minutenetworking.com

21:21

if you're not already into that. If

21:23

they won't just open doors for you, these

21:25

relationships, they're going to sustain you and motivate

21:28

you along the way as well. You need

21:30

all the support. You can get emotional support

21:32

as well. Yes, totally agree. You also need

21:34

to remember that this isn't just about you

21:37

and your sanity. This is also about your

21:39

son. I mean, this kid deserves a home

21:41

where dad isn't raging and rejecting him and

21:43

coming home drunk at like 9 in the

21:45

morning while he's having breakfast with a collector's

21:48

edition of Parcheesi under his arm, right? Like

21:50

playing Call of Duty till 3 in the

21:52

morning and talking in the kitchen about how

21:54

he hates his son. I Mean,

21:57

he deserves a mom also who isn't exhausted

21:59

and afraid. Diminished at every turn

22:01

by her husband. Sure, maybe you could grit

22:03

your teeth and stay small and muddle through

22:05

your life with the guy, but at what

22:07

cost? you know, like, what impact is that

22:10

going to have on your son for the

22:12

rest of his lungs? Fell. On

22:14

days when you find it hard to fight for

22:16

yourself, I think he got a fight for him.

22:18

And yes, unfortunately I do think you should at

22:20

least consider moving near your parents, but that really

22:23

depends on how difficult your mom is. a strong

22:25

your boundaries with her are. I do wonder if

22:27

there's a way to ask her for some support

22:29

in a while? You get on your feet and

22:31

protect yourself from whatever see my do you. But.

22:34

You would have to be extremely thoughtful about

22:36

those boundaries and I wonder if that's hard

22:38

for you for obvious reasons. I mean a

22:40

lack of boundaries is obviously a big party

22:42

co dependency and going home Not my kind

22:45

of be like going back to the scene

22:47

of the crime. But then I ask myself,

22:49

is that really worse than being abused and

22:51

hurt and let down and so many ways

22:53

by your husband? You know that really worse

22:55

than living with a cruel, unmotivated, narcissistic man

22:58

child? I mean, going home might be stressful.

23:00

It may not be ideal, but if you're

23:02

only way out of this toxic marriage. Is

23:04

to go home. You. Might have to

23:06

choose between the lesser of two evils for

23:08

a short period of time I'm with you.

23:11

Gave three months Six months back home. That

23:13

might be survivable with the new approach. Now

23:15

about the narcissism. A label. Now you don't

23:17

need to know whether your husband is officially

23:20

a narcissist. Whatever whether it's a true personality

23:22

disorder, it's I changed much for you other

23:24

than confirming what you already suspect. So yeah,

23:26

but I do find it interesting that this

23:29

matter so much tar the same. I I

23:31

kind of wonder if having the label, especially

23:33

from an authority that that stamp on paper.

23:35

right that's gonna like give her more confidence

23:38

in her own experience here are humbling exactly

23:40

that might speak to the part of her

23:42

that struggle sometimes to go what i'm experiencing

23:44

is real my judgments and opinions about my

23:46

husband are legitimate this is not okay which

23:48

is a good thing for you to notice

23:50

because there might be part of how you

23:52

ended up in this relationship and you know

23:54

it might be part of what's keeping you

23:56

stuck in it now so now we do

23:59

not feel that you should just learn how

24:01

to cope with a narcissistic person no matter

24:03

what. You're certainly allowed to, so many people

24:05

do, but that doesn't have to be your

24:07

story, and I do not believe it's time

24:09

to give up. In so many ways, so

24:11

many horrifying and hurtful ways, your husband has

24:13

shown that he's not a healthy or loving

24:15

partner or parent. More importantly, he's shown that

24:18

he's not able or willing to meaningfully change,

24:20

but you are. And

24:22

that means that changing the situation falls

24:24

on you. This is your responsibility now.

24:26

Not your fault, but your responsibility. So

24:29

what I would accept is how

24:31

serious this situation is, what's at stake if

24:33

you don't make a change, and that a

24:35

much better life is potentially waiting for you,

24:38

and that you also deserve that life. And

24:40

on that note, I would highly recommend reading

24:43

Dr. Romany's new book, It's Not You. In

24:45

the book, she talks about accepting that a

24:47

narcissistic partner is probably not gonna change unless

24:49

they really, really want to and they're really

24:51

putting in a ton of work. And she

24:53

also talks about how to effectively get out

24:56

of a relationship with a narcissist. And if

24:58

you can't leave, also, it's like an

25:00

option in the book, most books are like, you

25:02

gotta leave. And this book is like, you might

25:04

not be able to because you can't pay rent.

25:06

I mean, your precise scenario is kind of outlined

25:09

in this book. It's a very useful resource for

25:11

you right now. We'll link to that in the

25:13

show notes. Please use our book links because it

25:15

helps support the show. And we're rooting for you,

25:17

my friend. You can do this. You just gotta

25:20

be patient, but work hard. You are playing the

25:22

long game here, and we're wishing you and your

25:24

son all the best. You know what's more affordable

25:26

than an apartment you didn't even want in the

25:28

first place? The fine products and services that support

25:31

this show. We'll be right back. This

25:35

episode is sponsored in part by Dell.

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back to Feedback Friday. Okay,

28:09

next up. Hello Jordan and Gabe. I

28:12

met my friend Patrick and his cousin John in

28:14

third grade and we all grew up together. Then

28:17

in university, I opened up an eBay

28:19

account and started buying things I enjoyed,

28:21

mostly 80s and 90s figurines

28:24

like Ninja Turtles and GI Joes. One

28:26

day Patrick asked me if we could start selling the

28:28

original Xbox. He noticed that people on eBay were selling

28:31

them for over $1,000 when they were like $400 retail.

28:33

Sweet deal for university students.

28:38

This was his idea, so I let him run with

28:40

it. Every two weeks for four or

28:42

five months Patrick would give me about $200 telling

28:45

me it was from the Xbox sales. Then

28:47

he stopped giving me money. I

28:50

really didn't pay much attention to it. Then

28:52

I started getting calls from people from

28:54

Indiana, Ohio and other Midwest states saying

28:56

that they hadn't received their Xbox. I

28:59

checked with Patrick and he would say,

29:01

oh over stocks on backorder

29:03

or I did send it, let

29:05

me check. It never occurred to me to check

29:07

my eBay account. I made up my

29:09

mind that Patrick was telling me the truth and

29:11

that he was going to fix this. Then one

29:14

day I received a letter and an email from

29:16

eBay, an illegal entity that I owed eBay a

29:18

very large amount of money and that I had

29:20

to pay back all the money to the people

29:22

who never received their Xboxes and that my account

29:25

was closed and I was banned from their site.

29:27

I confronted Patrick and asked him how this could

29:29

have happened. Patrick looked me right in the

29:31

eye and told me, I realized I

29:33

make more money if I don't purchase the

29:35

Xbox, so I stopped. Wow,

29:38

okay. Well dude just straight up copped

29:40

to being a scammer account artist. Cool,

29:42

sure. Good best friend. I mean that

29:44

really sucks. This is a guy like,

29:47

how creepy is that? That is such a

29:49

literal confession that you have to wonder if

29:51

there's something seriously wrong with this guy. A

29:54

hundred percent man. Yeah, no dodge, nothing. Like

29:56

oh, I realized that my profit margin goes

29:58

up when I just engaged. and fraud and

30:00

B.D. like what? Yeah. The 2-bit con artist's

30:03

MBA analysis. Dude's got to screw loose for

30:05

sure. I just, where there's smoke, there's fire

30:07

too. This definitely gets worse, I assume. I

30:09

was floored by his statement and asked him

30:12

about how he was going to help me

30:14

pay eBay back. He said, it's your

30:16

account, you should pay attention. Sounds like a

30:18

you problem. Wow.

30:23

Like a total a-hole on top of it.

30:25

This guy's just a predator, man. Wow. What

30:27

was funny is that I wasn't angry. I

30:30

was more hurt. Patrick was a very

30:32

close and lifetime friend and he said this so

30:34

coldly without a care in the world, then asked

30:36

if I wanted to go catch a movie. What?

30:38

After this, I distanced myself and Patrick. It took

30:41

me a year to pay eBay back and I've

30:43

never been on the site since. Funnily

30:45

enough, John, who worked with me at Adelie,

30:47

had warned me about Patrick before all this,

30:50

but I didn't believe him. I

30:52

would later find out from John that

30:54

Patrick was using the Xbox money to

30:56

buy escorts and clothing and to live

30:58

a nice lifestyle. No drugs or alcohol

31:01

as Patrick was health conscious. Health conscious,

31:03

but bangs random women for money. I

31:05

guess. Okay. Yeah. Hard to know whether

31:07

that's true. Sure. Okay. Another friend of

31:09

ours bought a DSLR camera and Patrick

31:12

pawned it. He'd also borrow friends, student

31:14

IDs, check out laptops from the computer

31:16

labs on campus and pawn those too.

31:18

He owed money to the wrong people

31:20

and had his mom's brand new Corvette

31:23

stolen, wink, wink, from her garage. Ooh.

31:25

Okay. So this dude is just a total

31:27

fraudster desperately trying to keep all these

31:29

pins in the air. And I am

31:31

definitely, I'm getting a whiff of a mental

31:33

illness here for sure. Five years later,

31:35

John organized a get together with old friends

31:37

from high school. Patrick was there. As

31:40

my wife and I were leaving, he approached me outside.

31:42

We made small talk and he asked me if I

31:44

wanted to go out and catch up. I confronted him

31:47

and told him that he hurt me as a friend.

31:49

He stared at me and just said that it

31:52

was in the past and we shouldn't worry

31:54

about such things. Oh, we shouldn't worry about me

31:56

totally trying to ruin your life and not

31:58

caring. I just, I hate this. guy.

32:00

What a ridiculous person. He was right.

32:02

I was holding on to it,

32:04

and I never realized how much till that

32:06

moment. I looked at him and told him

32:08

he was right, and that I forgave him.

32:11

I declined his offer to catch up and haven't seen

32:13

him since. My wife asked me how

32:15

I could just forgive him like that. I realized

32:17

that the forgiveness was not for him, but for

32:19

me, to let go of the

32:22

feelings of being stupid and embarrassed. Was

32:24

Patrick a narcissist? It's quite

32:26

a theme today. Should I have

32:28

punched him in the face? Why didn't I do more?

32:31

What could I have done? Signed, wondering where

32:33

to point the finger after falling hook, line, and

32:35

sinker for this total wanker. Yeah, I mean, should

32:37

you have punched him in the face? No. Did

32:40

he deserve it? Yes. But that's

32:42

not what we're addressing here. Man, I'm very

32:44

sorry you crossed paths with this guy. He's

32:46

a bad apple, to put it lightly, and

32:48

he targeted you the way that he targeted

32:50

so many people, just to make a quick

32:52

buck, to save his own skin. This guy

32:54

screwed over his own mother, so I think

32:56

it's safe to say he was never really

32:58

your friend, but at least not by any

33:00

definition that you would, a normal person would

33:03

have as a friend. I'm not sure this guy

33:05

is capable of having true friends. Again, screws over

33:07

his own mom, has her car stolen. I understand

33:09

why all this hurt you the way it did.

33:11

It's a huge betrayal. It's very unsettling, and it

33:14

must have been even worse, given your history together.

33:16

I mean, if I get screwed

33:18

over by some random stranger or a new person

33:20

that I met, I'm like, wow. But if I

33:22

get screwed over by somebody I've known since kindergarten

33:25

or third grade or whatever it was, that would

33:27

really, yeah, it cuts deep. So I don't know

33:29

if Patrick was a narcissist and I don't really

33:31

care. Maybe it would explain some of his

33:34

behavior. There's certainly narcissism at work here,

33:36

I guess. But I don't know, Gabe.

33:38

I'm getting far deeper sociopath vibes from

33:40

this guy, right, versus narcissism. Definitely.

33:42

I heard that too when you confronted Patrick, and

33:45

Patrick was like, oh yeah, I just put you

33:47

eight grand in the hole with eBay and implicated

33:49

you in numerous crimes. But yeah, let's not worry

33:51

about that kind of stuff. You want to go

33:54

see Batman Begins at $250? Like, what? Yeah,

33:57

just cold, unfeeling, but also comp-

34:00

inability to empathize. It sounds like a

34:02

you problem, am I right? Anyway, it's

34:04

almost like he's confused about what went

34:06

wrong. It just sounds like a wiring

34:08

issue at that point. If somebody knows

34:10

they screwed you over and they know

34:12

it's wrong, they avoid you, right, there's

34:14

all kinds of other stuff going on.

34:17

This guy was like, what, you're

34:19

mad about that? I mean, that's weird. Also, yeah,

34:21

I totally screwed you, but like, whatever. He just

34:23

doesn't even understand. This man is broken. So the

34:25

only smart option with people like this is to

34:28

stay far away from them. They will always try

34:30

to screw you because that's just how

34:32

they operate. I wouldn't even talk to

34:35

somebody like this. They can't have normal

34:37

relationships. They can't consider someone else's experience.

34:39

You're literally wasting your breath and probably

34:41

opening yourself up to being victimized again.

34:43

So your main question, why didn't I

34:45

do more? What could I have done?

34:47

That's the only question that's worth asking

34:49

yourself. And I don't know if you

34:52

were just asking about that night that

34:54

you ran into him or about the

34:56

whole relationship, but I'm gonna apply that

34:58

to the whole relationship and remind you

35:00

that even though Patrick's fraud came as

35:02

a surprise, you did have a very

35:04

explicit warning early on from John, your

35:07

other best friend who's related to the

35:09

guy, right? He literally told you before

35:11

all this that Patrick was bad news

35:13

and in your words, you just didn't

35:15

believe him. Wasn't John Patrick's cousin?

35:18

Yes. My question is, why would you

35:20

not believe him? Did you not trust

35:22

John's opinion at that time? Were you

35:24

more loyal to Patrick? Did you not

35:26

want to believe John? And if

35:29

so, why was that? Did you

35:31

not want to lose Patrick as a friend?

35:33

Was it painful to acknowledge this guy that

35:35

you grew up with was bad news? Was

35:37

it stressful or scary to think about pulling

35:39

away or telling him you weren't going to

35:42

be partners? Listening to John, taking the red

35:44

flags at face value along the way, that

35:46

is just one huge thing you could have done differently.

35:49

The other thing that you could have done differently is

35:51

you could have been more on top of the business.

35:53

I get ignoring stuff. I've also been guilty

35:56

of this in years past. Someone else took

35:58

out a bunch of credit cards. in

36:00

their own name and funneled the money into

36:02

a business that I was running. And when

36:04

we found out about it, he was like,

36:07

the business owes me this. You

36:09

need to sign this letter that says the business owes me this.

36:11

And I was like, no, I'm not

36:13

going to do that. He ended up

36:15

going through bankruptcy and he tried to sue me,

36:17

by the way. And I was like, you did

36:19

this without telling anyone. Luckily, there were a

36:21

ton of people in the business and then we were all like,

36:23

we have no idea why you would do this and nobody gave

36:25

you permission. And his argument was, you did. And it's like, well,

36:27

then why are they in your name and not in the business?

36:30

Why did nobody else in the business take out the cards? So,

36:33

total moron. But first

36:35

of all, the dude's handing you $200 in

36:37

cash flat every two weeks. You're taking it.

36:40

No income summary, no sales report. You don't even

36:42

want a Google sheet showing like how many of

36:44

these things you sold. Also Gabe, I wasn't really

36:47

paying attention, but the math is a little weird

36:49

here too, right? Yeah. The profit margin

36:51

should have been $600 per unit, right? So

36:53

he's handing you a third of that without telling

36:55

you how many units he sold. So

36:58

even if he sold two of these Xboxes a month,

37:00

the math is weird. Right. And

37:02

then he stops giving you money completely. And in

37:04

your words, you're like, I didn't pay much attention

37:06

to it. Like I just guess I stopped the

37:08

business. Why? I

37:10

mean, at what point do you go, huh, something's not right here.

37:12

Let me log into eBay and see what's

37:14

up. Like I'm curious how many Xboxes we're selling.

37:17

Then you get those calls from people angry they

37:19

never got their products. So at that point, even

37:21

if you had good reason to discount all the

37:23

red flags, all the signals, you didn't because John

37:25

had already warned you. But even if you did,

37:28

that's when you go, okay, my

37:30

business partner is either a hot mess or he's on

37:32

drugs or something or some fish is going on. But

37:35

even then you said it never occurred to me

37:37

to check my eBay account, which I'm calling shenanigans

37:39

on. I think you were avoiding something here. That's

37:41

what you need to figure out. I'm not sure

37:44

if it was the responsibility of managing the details

37:46

that go into being a business owner. That's

37:49

kind of what it was for me or

37:51

the burden of confronting who Patrick really was.

37:53

But in so many ways, you either missed the

37:56

cues or you buried your head in the sand

37:58

and that created a massive blind spot. when

38:00

it comes to this guy. That is exactly right.

38:02

Yeah, and that's why this thing with Patrick had

38:04

to happen, I think, to help you confront this

38:06

part of your personality, the part of it that

38:08

didn't want to confront his. You know, Jordan, one

38:10

of the most telling parts of his letter is

38:12

when he said, I made up my mind that

38:14

Patrick was telling me the truth and that he

38:16

was going to fix this. Yeah, like I made

38:18

up my mind to bury my head in the

38:20

sand and disregard all evidence that comes in until

38:22

I get sued by eBay. Like what does that...is

38:24

that what that means? That's what

38:26

it meant. That really means that it was very

38:29

hard for him to even entertain the possibility that

38:31

Patrick was lying to him, using him. And again,

38:33

why that is, that's for him to figure out.

38:36

But I have a feeling it's because it

38:38

would have been very wounding to admit that

38:40

Patrick was a bad dude and that he

38:42

targeted him. Like he said, he was

38:44

more hurt than angry when it all came out.

38:46

So he clung to a version of his friend

38:48

that he could live with in order to spare

38:50

himself the pain of accepting who he really was.

38:53

But what that pain actually consisted of,

38:55

it's such an interesting question. I mean,

38:57

I'm sure it's the usual mix of

39:00

sadness, disappointment, regret, anger, all normal responses.

39:03

But because he had so many signs along the

39:05

way, I think it was also a lot of

39:07

embarrassment. I was going to say, I think our

39:09

friend here has a lot of shame about all

39:11

this. He has some egg on his face, right?

39:13

John literally told him, dude, watch out for

39:15

my cousin, not a good guy. And he

39:17

went into business with him anyway. And then

39:19

he stuck around way longer than he should

39:21

have. So this brute force intellectual position, I'm

39:23

just going to make up my mind that

39:25

Patrick is a good person, that sounds like

39:27

a defense against a wound that he would

39:29

feel or just a general kind

39:31

of broad discomfort or ambiguity about who

39:34

this person really is and what it

39:36

all means. The wound might be, I

39:38

had poor judgment, I missed the signs,

39:40

I made myself vulnerable, I was asleep

39:42

at the wheel basically. On

39:44

some level, I participated in this

39:46

dynamic with this guy. Exactly. So,

39:49

I'm going to go back in here to

39:51

the Gavin De Becker idea we talked about

39:53

last week or the week before, whatever it

39:55

was. At some point, many victims become volunteers.

39:58

But as long as you're colluding with the victim, you're going to be a good person. with

40:00

your scammer even if it's just by turning

40:02

a blind eye, clinging to the version of

40:04

them that you wish they were, you're enabling

40:06

them. In a sense, you're indirectly targeting yourself.

40:08

Which is why when he forgave Patrick all

40:11

these years later, he said it was for

40:13

himself. Yeah, to let go of all these

40:15

feelings of feeling stupid and embarrassed, right? Again,

40:17

he's sparing himself some difficult emotions. So my

40:19

question for you is, what is it about

40:21

those feelings that's so difficult to tolerate? I'm

40:23

not saying that you should live the rest

40:26

of your life consumed with hatred for this

40:28

guy. That's not healthy either. But he victimized

40:30

you, man. He conned you. He exploited you. It's

40:32

perfectly appropriate to be angry at him and to remember

40:35

what he did to you, to not let him off

40:37

the hook. That anger isn't just

40:39

justified. It's also protective. Now I can understand

40:41

being embarrassed about the role that you played

40:43

here. I totally get it. But there's another

40:46

way to approach yourself, which is, huh, interesting.

40:48

There's a part of me that doesn't always

40:50

want to be in contact with reality, whether

40:52

it's with the truth about this guy, with

40:55

the details of a business, with my own

40:57

feelings, or even with this guy years later

40:59

when I'm still really hurt and really angry

41:01

at him, but I don't want to own

41:04

that. So maybe it's time for me to

41:06

look at those qualities, try to

41:08

figure out why they're there, see if I can

41:10

work on them and hopefully grow here by forgiving

41:12

Patrick so easily. Which by the way, let's remember

41:15

you also did because he said you shouldn't

41:17

worry about stuff like this, which suggests to

41:19

me that Patrick might still be exerting some

41:22

influence over you. I think you missed another

41:24

opportunity to fully be in touch with all

41:26

of this, which is precisely what you could

41:28

have done to protect yourself from him in

41:30

the first place. That's exactly right. And that's

41:32

why I kind of don't

41:34

think he truly forgave Patrick in the classic

41:36

sense of the word. This wasn't like,

41:38

okay, you're a defective human being. I'm super angry at

41:41

you, but mostly I feel bad for you. So I'm

41:43

going to forgive you because you aren't capable of getting

41:45

better. This is more like it. My anger and shame

41:47

and hurt are so awful that I'm going to pretend

41:49

I'm forgiving you so that I don't have to keep

41:51

feeling this way. And I totally

41:53

understand the impulse to do this.

41:56

But meanwhile, those feelings are still

41:58

bubbling beneath the surface because... because

42:00

they really haven't been fully acknowledged and

42:02

explored, and I hate to say this

42:04

because I know this is all kind

42:06

of intense, but until you do explore

42:08

those feelings, I'm a little bit afraid

42:10

that your vulnerability to people like Patrick,

42:12

it remains in place. Gabe,

42:14

it's interesting, over the years, I've dealt with a

42:16

few Patricks here and there, and I've had vendors

42:19

and partners and collaborators who promised products and never

42:21

delivered or funneled resources away from our company or

42:23

even tried to take part of my old businesses

42:25

or whatever, or did take part of my old

42:28

business, just took it, and it wasn't until I

42:30

met Jen and started working with her that I

42:32

was really able to see a lot of this

42:34

stuff clearly. It's not that I didn't notice these

42:37

guys were scumbags and didn't try to do anything

42:39

about it, but Jen saw this play

42:41

out a couple of times, or one specific time,

42:43

and was like, why are you wasting your time

42:45

with this guy? He's a knucklehead and he's full of crap.

42:47

Why does this happen? And I had to

42:49

really look at that because lots of business owners

42:52

get screwed around with, it's for sure, but I

42:54

realized I also had some ideas at the time

42:56

that were making me vulnerable to these people. Like,

42:58

for example, I would think, oh, if I bring

43:00

this person in, they're gonna handle all this marketing

43:02

stuff, and this stuff is so confusing and there's

43:04

so much to know, and I don't know if

43:07

I can figure it out, it's all new to

43:09

me, and then I don't have to learn how

43:11

to do this stuff myself, which is, you know,

43:13

look, you hire vendors because they have certain expertise,

43:15

but this was like, I'm gonna fix every problem

43:17

you say you have, that's sus. Or,

43:20

oh, this person has all these secrets that

43:22

I don't know or experience I don't have

43:24

and I can't run this business without them,

43:26

which is funny because that's actually precisely what

43:28

a lot of marketers do to create buyers.

43:30

They look at what you need and they

43:32

tell you, oh, I have this thing that

43:35

you don't know, if you buy it, you'll

43:37

get crazy results. Look at all these results

43:39

I'm delivering for other people, whether they're true

43:41

or not. But a lot of internet marketers,

43:43

they're just low-key scammers. So much of it

43:45

is a con. I probably don't need to

43:47

sell that point too Hard. We've all

43:49

seen people selling crap online that's clearly

43:52

junk, especially info products. I'd find these

43:54

questionable partners who really wanted to work

43:56

with me because of the size of

43:58

the show, the market. Well, mine

44:00

footprint and they really work like overtime to

44:02

make me feel like I should trust them

44:04

because they were targeting the enemies red flag

44:07

after red flag and I would be too

44:09

busy. quote unquote, too busy and discount those

44:11

and I really did needs and to be

44:13

like hey, this guy's targeting you There's a

44:15

pattern here and that was a big step

44:17

for me and that's what our friend here

44:20

needs to do is kind of funny. One

44:22

of the final his hammer of the nail

44:24

in the coffin of me being vulnerable to

44:26

this kind of thing was having to restart

44:28

this business to show. Seven years ago?

44:30

Whatever. it's been because I was like I

44:33

basically did that with the teams help. I

44:35

didn't need these outside yet. is they wasted

44:37

my time targeting me at that point in

44:39

time where I was vulnerable by the way.

44:41

But then I really like these guys in

44:43

Greeley. Do anything? Not much anyway. and they

44:45

were no lot. Ninety nine percent talk and

44:47

sounds like you know what? if I can

44:49

rebuild this whole thing with my team I

44:51

don't need these external yet says like they

44:53

can do specific stuff but I'm not hiring

44:55

any of these guys and I basically we

44:57

just like I'm not working with you guys.

45:00

In he works and it was funny to

45:02

them are like what and then they just

45:04

screwed off and never tells me again. I'm

45:06

fine with it. Well yeah but I did

45:08

needs and a kind of be like shine

45:10

a flashlight on it's to That's what our

45:13

friend here is to do it needs to

45:15

really look at the thoughts and feelings and

45:17

assumptions that he has about how he runs

45:19

his businesses, how he might navigate life in

45:21

general which are becoming vulnerabilities to human viruses

45:23

like Patrick, the feelings, all feelings that the

45:26

there to teach you something about yourself of

45:28

course but also about other people. including

45:30

people who wish to do you harm

45:32

these feelings in many ways are are

45:34

evolve defence mechanisms right they're trying to

45:36

communicate something to a so rather than

45:38

suppress them sidestep them discharge them whatever

45:40

you're doing to distance herself from essentially

45:42

yourself i'd lean into them and light

45:44

the men like the husband from the

45:47

previous question this is something that patrick

45:49

can't do his wiring is broken both

45:51

of those guys wiring is broken and

45:53

that's a tragedy but you can do

45:55

this and there's a whole world of

45:57

information in there and a ton of

45:59

growth So I hope you get to

46:01

do that man and I hope you get to

46:03

capitalize on this really awful experience. You're already in

46:05

the process of doing it which is great and

46:07

I wish you good luck. I know it sounds

46:09

like a lot. I've lost, you know, lots and

46:11

lots and lots and lots of money to scammers

46:14

and a-holes. I don't really miss it

46:16

and I know that it's like digging out sucks

46:18

but then after that you're like, uh, alright. You

46:20

can reach us Friday at jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your

46:22

emails concise. Try to use the descriptive subject line.

46:25

That makes our job a whole lot easier. If

46:27

your mom's being targeted by a guy because your

46:29

state keeps letting him out of jail, your

46:31

brother's obsessed with goats or your bedridden

46:33

dad is stuck in a house with

46:35

a violent psychotic family member. Man, give

46:37

the spectrum of stories we get on

46:39

this show. Really, never ceases to amaze

46:41

me. Isn't it crazy? Hit us up

46:43

Friday at jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help

46:45

and we keep every email anonymous. Okay,

46:47

next up. Hey guys, my mom lived

46:50

with her boyfriend for 20 years before

46:52

passing away nine years ago. She had

46:54

a long journey into dementia and as

46:56

she became less able to do things,

46:58

I stepped up. It started with weekly

47:00

visits to fill her pill caddy and

47:02

by the time she passed, I was going

47:04

there nearly every day to make them supper,

47:06

do their grocery shopping, take them to all

47:08

of their appointments, whatever was necessary. Neither of

47:11

my sisters lifted a finger to help nor

47:13

did my mom's boyfriend's children, even though three

47:16

of the four lived within 11 miles of

47:18

his home. I'm still friends with

47:20

her boyfriend. I call him stepdad. We go

47:22

places and do things regularly and I thought

47:24

we were family. Three years ago, he

47:26

broke his hip and hasn't been able to

47:28

live at home since, mostly because his daughter

47:30

wants him in a nursing home. I've

47:33

spoken to him almost daily since this

47:35

happened, keeping his spirits up. Then

47:37

last Christmas, his granddaughter announced her

47:39

engagement. A couple of days later,

47:41

I saw his daughter, the bride-to-be's

47:43

mom, at his nursing home. She

47:46

told me about the wedding and asked if I would

47:48

mind bringing her dad. Of course I'll

47:50

do that, I said. The venue's about 40 minutes

47:52

from here and he takes a long time to

47:54

do things. Days before the wedding,

47:57

I still hadn't received an invite, didn't have

47:59

the name. of the place, the address,

48:01

or the time. Then his daughter

48:03

called yesterday with that information and informed

48:05

me that because they're having a micro-wedding

48:08

of only 70 guests, she listed me

48:10

as a vendor. That way, I

48:12

can still get a plate, but I'm not

48:14

allowed to drink at the open bar. Am I

48:16

expected to give them a gift? A

48:18

card with money in it? I don't think any of my

48:20

fellow vendors are going to do so. Should I

48:23

send her an invoice the day after the wedding, charging

48:25

her for taking care of her dad? Signed,

48:27

playing this card I've been dealt, when

48:29

apparently I'm just the help. Man,

48:32

I'm sorry that your mom's boyfriend's family is treating

48:34

you this way. I think it's funny, it's a

48:36

micro-wedding, but it's 70 guests. Micro is

48:38

like 10 people, including a bride

48:41

and groom. Yeah, 10 people at a small

48:43

chapel. Anyway, you have to make some tough

48:45

calls at even a 70-person wedding. I get

48:47

it. There's a world where your grandfather's late

48:49

girlfriend's daughter doesn't make the cut. And if

48:52

you communicate that kindly with a phone call

48:54

or an email explaining why, like it's purely

48:56

budgetary and we're having trouble, I get it.

48:58

Maybe it's okay, especially if you're not super

49:01

close. Although it sounds like maybe you kind of

49:03

were, which sucks. But if

49:05

you call that person a

49:07

family member, as far as I'm concerned,

49:10

and you ask them to bring

49:12

your own father to the wedding

49:14

as a favor. You give that

49:16

person an invite. Absolutely, right? It

49:19

seems so déclasse, man, and petty,

49:21

and not even that much more cost-effective. And if

49:24

you don't know what déclasse means, it means gauche.

49:26

And if you don't know what gauche means, it's

49:28

a word that pretentious as-loos use to sound culture.

49:30

Which you just did. So twice, I

49:32

would add. But

49:36

yeah, I'm with you, man. That's what I'm

49:38

confused about. They're saying we're having a super

49:40

small wedding so you can stay for dinner,

49:42

but you can't have a couple glasses of

49:44

pinot griges at the bar. That's where we

49:47

draw the line. Right, no cake for you.

49:49

Meanwhile, she's schlepping their father from the nursing

49:51

home or whatever, and then she has the

49:53

same status as the person who brought, what,

49:55

the Frickin' photo booth to the

49:57

wedding? And She's got to squeeze in. There's

50:00

table and go habs these on his

50:02

chair to enjoy her plate. I'm sorry

50:04

but his total Bs yeah this guy

50:06

is her stepfather. her mom was with

50:08

him for twenty years. If you don't

50:10

want to win fighter don't have via

50:13

for don't turn her into your dang

50:15

contractor and the not include her in

50:17

the event this woman deserves all the

50:19

all the penal greasy can drink for

50:21

that's it will probably not of he's

50:23

driving an elderly man back home eleven

50:25

was gonna serves his drive in the

50:27

data maybe moderate but yeah a couple

50:30

glasses. Over the evening for sir, I agree,

50:32

it's hurtful. I wanna believe that they just didn't

50:34

think this through, but how could they not? They

50:36

thought it through enough to give right vendors invite

50:38

center the detail so they must be aware of

50:41

what this meant. That's probably why it took him

50:43

so long to get her that he tells

50:45

a reply going back and forth trying to decide

50:47

whether do and fight her and it's is so

50:49

lame, so gross. So do you give them a

50:52

gift? Well, I certainly understand why you don't want

50:54

to, but if you don't they're gonna notice and

50:56

they're definitely going to interpret that as some kind

50:58

of slight even though Crt. Gave them a

51:00

gift to hi I brought your dad says

51:03

our wedding agreed but they're not thinking about

51:05

it like that right now. When they do

51:07

their spreadsheet on who gave was, they're going

51:09

to go hall interesting a least and give

51:11

us anything. Someone's. got her knickers

51:13

in a to as yeah like right are going

51:15

to interpret it that way that's is doubled not

51:18

invited to open house thanksgiving this year where do

51:20

you have to bring the turks the i hate

51:22

that they've put her in this position because nancy

51:24

looks like the patty one either by not giving

51:27

them a gift or by bringing it up with

51:29

them and and pointing out how rooted as i

51:31

gotta say though the idea of sending her an

51:33

invoice i love that itself on your and mean

51:36

that's like a super party dark jordan has a

51:38

dark a lease i love it and maybe maybe

51:40

there's a world in which that plays well probably

51:42

not there is certain poetry and it though but

51:45

that is definitely going to piss them off more

51:47

and or make them embarrassed and pull away i

51:49

love the idea that it the idea occurred to

51:51

you but i think that's where it's and steaks

51:54

your best bet is really to go to the

51:56

wedding take good care of your stepdad play nice

51:58

with every one and afterward you get

52:00

the bride something small, it doesn't

52:03

have to be lavish, maybe a

52:05

fjäskanundra from Ikea or whatever and

52:07

then adjust your expectations of this

52:10

quote-unquote family accordingly. They

52:12

might be signaling how close they really want

52:14

to be with you and frankly that sucks.

52:16

It's not kind. They sound selfish already because

52:18

of the whole not taking care of anyone

52:20

thing and letting you do all that. They're

52:23

taking advantage of you and I don't know, do

52:25

you need family like that? They might

52:27

just want to take the signal and accept that this is how

52:29

they feel and they're not going to change. There

52:32

is one other possibility here, Jordan, which

52:34

is our friend here sacrificed a lot

52:36

for her mom and her stepdad over

52:38

the years. She clearly has some resentment

52:40

and I think understandable resentment toward her

52:42

sisters and her step-siblings who apparently left

52:44

all of this to her and then

52:46

her step-sister just put her dad in

52:48

a nursing home after he broke his

52:50

hip presumably because it was easier on

52:52

her and her siblings. So I

52:54

do wonder if his kids and his granddaughter, the

52:56

bride, just aren't that close with him or they

52:58

don't treat him very well and so by extension

53:00

they're not that close with the daughter of his

53:02

ex-girlfriend which would mean that this whole wedding invite

53:05

then might not ultimately be about her. She's just

53:07

collateral damage in their relationship with their father. The

53:09

other possibility is that during that time that our

53:11

friend was taking care of her mom and stepdad,

53:13

some friction developed between her and the rest of

53:15

the family because she was like, hey, I'm the

53:18

only one who cares. I do all the work.

53:20

You guys don't lift a finger. And she might

53:22

be right about that but that might have

53:24

also driven them away. It might have made them

53:26

resent her. We don't know exactly how she communicated

53:29

her feelings to them at the time, not that

53:31

they were wrong, but we just don't know how

53:33

those conversations went. So when they're doing the seating

53:35

chart for the wedding, they might be going, yeah,

53:38

let's not invite Elise because she's so difficult

53:41

which still really sucks. It's hurtful but

53:43

it might make some sense if they

53:45

have fundamentally different opinions and feelings about

53:47

who owes what to whom in this

53:49

family. Yeah, it's a good point. I

53:51

don't think this all just started with

53:53

the wedding. Clearly, there were cracks in

53:55

the relationship leading up to all this but

53:57

now she's seeing it clearly. Right. when

54:00

you're at the wedding, I would definitely go

54:02

ahead and order that Pinot Griges or three.

54:05

Don't even think twice about it. First of all,

54:07

the bartender's not going to be like, sorry, can

54:09

I see your invitation? Are you family or are

54:11

you the person who brought the sparklers? He's just

54:13

going to pour you a drink or they're going

54:15

to hand it out on a tray. Second, even

54:18

if the family sees you ordering, sorry, but who

54:20

cares? You're literally costing them like five bucks, ten

54:22

if they're serving the really good stuff, which based

54:24

on the fact that they're trying to vendor you, something

54:26

tells me they're not serving the good stuff. And if

54:28

they get billed for it, tough Kishka, as my

54:30

grandma used to say, you schlepped their dad.

54:33

You can enjoy some vino, sis. And if

54:35

the bride's mom locks eyes with you in

54:37

horror at the bar while you order, I

54:39

would lift your glass, give her a wink

54:41

like Leonardo DiCaprio in the great dad seat,

54:43

and just take a nice long victory sip

54:45

before you return to your non-existent seat. That

54:48

can be your little win. And if it's like me, I

54:50

am ending that sip with

54:53

just loud enough she

54:55

can hear it. Yeah.

54:58

And the other thing I would do is I would

55:00

get the bride and groom, one of those

55:02

fjords kunundra that you have to assemble yourself.

55:04

And then they gave you a job. Now

55:06

you get to give them one. Exactly. And

55:08

you know what? Take a couple of screws

55:10

out of that bad boy. Just one or

55:12

two of each type. Keep them on their

55:15

toes. It's a beautiful cycle, a beautiful petty

55:17

cycle. There's nothing like putting something together from

55:19

Ikea and being like, I need one of

55:21

those wooden little dowels that goes in like

55:23

one hole and then goes in the other

55:25

hole to keep the thing together strongly. Because you're

55:27

holding two partially built pieces, right? And

55:30

you just don't have any more of those. And

55:32

you're like, damn, I got to put this down

55:34

and drive over there. Oh, man,

55:36

I think this might be a little bit of a turning

55:38

point in your relationship. That's not necessarily a

55:41

bad thing. You still have your stepdad. That's

55:43

the relationship that matters the most. The rest

55:45

of the family, they might just not be

55:47

your people. And that's okay. It hurts, but

55:49

it's okay. Your stepdad is lucky to have

55:51

you taking care of him. Have fun at

55:53

the wedding or, you know, as much fun

55:55

as you can. You know who's not going

55:57

to make you eat your slice of cake in a bathroom cell? Gabriel.

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Friday. All

59:24

right. Dear Gabe and Jordan, back

59:26

when my daughter was 21 or 22 years old, she

59:28

started seeing this

59:30

guy who worked construction for my husband. Let's

59:33

call him Aaron. Aaron was also

59:35

part of our congregation and a very close friend

59:37

of my son's as well. He was like family.

59:40

We really enjoyed his company. He and my

59:42

daughter got pretty serious pretty quickly and it

59:44

seemed like they were heading toward engagement. Then

59:47

one night, my daughter had Aaron's phone

59:49

and saw in his browser that he

59:51

was looking for local escorts. We're

59:57

a religious family, very conservative. We

1:00:00

were shocked. Aaron actually

1:00:02

called my husband crying and admitted to what our

1:00:04

daughter had found on his phone. He said she

1:00:06

had left and was on her way home to

1:00:08

us. We all cried with her and

1:00:10

let her know that we would support her in whatever decision

1:00:12

she made. She said that she wanted

1:00:14

nothing further to do with him, which was

1:00:16

very hard on her, especially because this all

1:00:19

happened during the pandemic lockdowns. Fast

1:00:21

forward four years, our daughter is now about to turn 26.

1:00:24

She's been happily married for a year and a half

1:00:26

to a great guy who we feel is a perfect

1:00:29

balance for her. But my son, who's

1:00:31

now 21, has rekindled his friendship with Aaron.

1:00:33

Apparently he's cleaned up his act and Aaron

1:00:36

is trying to restore his relationships in the

1:00:38

congregation as well. We aren't BFFs

1:00:40

with him, but we wish him well and

1:00:42

occasionally run into him at social events. Our

1:00:45

daughter, however, is livid that

1:00:47

we have anything to do with him

1:00:49

and feels betrayed. I now feel

1:00:52

that we have to go out of our way to hide

1:00:54

from her that we've spent time with Aaron. Recently,

1:00:56

after one of her meltdowns at learning about an event

1:00:58

he was going to attend with our family, I found

1:01:01

myself texting her in all caps, You're

1:01:03

married! Aaron shouldn't even be a

1:01:05

blip on your radar. Am I a disloyal

1:01:07

mom? Should we continue to sneak

1:01:09

around with our daughter's ex? Or just come

1:01:12

out of the closet and let the chips

1:01:14

fall where they may? Signed, am

1:01:16

I a cheater? Or does my daughter need

1:01:18

to treat her? Old beau with

1:01:20

a different demeanor. This is kind of a tough

1:01:22

one, Gabe. I guess, I mean, I kind

1:01:24

of see both sides here. I can see

1:01:26

why the brother and the parents are open to

1:01:29

giving this guy another chance. I mean, he kind

1:01:31

of deserves that. Being judged for the rest of

1:01:33

your life for something you did in your early

1:01:35

20s before you were married, it's kind of a

1:01:37

harsh sentence. People can obviously

1:01:39

grow. Plus, they have a friendship with

1:01:41

him apart from the daughter. But I

1:01:43

can also appreciate why their daughter finds

1:01:45

it weird that her family's hanging out

1:01:47

with her ex, almost fiancée, who cheated

1:01:49

on her with a bunch of déclasse

1:01:52

tutes on backpage and

1:01:55

broke her heart. Wait a second. Let me just take

1:01:57

in that phrase. and

1:02:00

toots on back page. Yeah. Chef's kiss. But

1:02:02

I really feel for you here because you're

1:02:04

caught between your own child and a guy

1:02:06

who sounds like he's probably maybe a decent

1:02:08

person now who's done some real growth and

1:02:10

wants to have better relationships with people in

1:02:12

your community. That's a tough place to be.

1:02:14

I mean, especially because he called the husband

1:02:16

right away crying and admitting it. I mean,

1:02:18

you know, he's already, it's not like he

1:02:20

was like, ah, sucks to be you. Right.

1:02:23

Father of the daughter I cheated on. It is a tough

1:02:25

place to be, but the daughter's also putting her family in

1:02:27

a bit of a tough position to a degree by being

1:02:29

very outraged. And, well, I don't want to

1:02:32

speak too soon, but it sounds like she's

1:02:34

being a little, maybe a little bit rigid

1:02:36

about some of this. It sounds to me

1:02:38

like she's very much still nursing this wound,

1:02:40

which I can empathize with up to a

1:02:42

point, but she's not giving this guy much

1:02:44

grace or understanding. I mean, yes, he did

1:02:46

something awful while they were together, but

1:02:48

if it's true that he's changed, and this is

1:02:51

in the past, then is it really fair for

1:02:53

her to only view this from her own point

1:02:55

of view? And is it really her place to

1:02:57

say who her parents can and can't be friends

1:02:59

with? I mean, I get breaking up with a

1:03:01

guy and not giving him a second chance there.

1:03:03

I get that. But then being like, now you

1:03:05

can't talk to my mom. All right, I mean.

1:03:07

Well, especially four years later, right? It's like they're

1:03:09

yucking it up with him at church mixers six

1:03:11

weeks after he broke their daughter's heart. That's a

1:03:14

different situation. So much has happened since then. And

1:03:16

she's married now, and she's happy. You know, when

1:03:18

our friend said that she wants to tell her daughter,

1:03:20

you're married, this guy shouldn't even be a blip on

1:03:22

your radar. I'm not sure if he shouldn't even be

1:03:24

a blip on her radar. They were almost engaged. Obviously,

1:03:27

this whole thing left a real mark on her, and

1:03:29

understandably so. But I agree with her

1:03:31

that she might be clinging to something here. Also,

1:03:33

reading between the lines here just a little bit,

1:03:35

she did say that her daughter has been having

1:03:37

meltdowns about all this, quite a strong word. She

1:03:40

also said that her daughter's husband is a perfect

1:03:42

balance for her, which is also kind of an

1:03:45

interesting choice of words. So that makes me wonder,

1:03:48

does the daughter run a little

1:03:50

hot, maybe? Is she maybe more

1:03:52

reactive and emotional than logical,

1:03:54

flexible, open to other perspectives? And her

1:03:56

partner, and maybe the whole family, has

1:03:59

to always adjust. and balance

1:04:01

out some of her extreme responses.

1:04:03

Yeah, that's an interesting read

1:04:05

between the lines there. I kind of get that

1:04:08

sense too. Or, maybe she's just like this when

1:04:10

it comes to Aaron, which again, being cheated on

1:04:12

by your almost fiance in this way, in this

1:04:14

community especially, it's a big deal. I mean, it'd

1:04:16

be a big deal in any community. I mean,

1:04:18

he's cheating on her with escorts, yuck. I'm

1:04:21

not discounting that. But my feeling is, there's

1:04:23

a conversation to be had with your daughter

1:04:25

here. And the conversation has to begin with

1:04:27

you trying to understand not only why your

1:04:29

daughter feels so strongly about Aaron, but also

1:04:31

why it's hard for her to imagine that

1:04:33

he's changed, consider whether he might deserve another

1:04:35

chance. You have to have

1:04:38

that part of the conversation without judgment,

1:04:40

just empathy, curiosity, and invite her to

1:04:42

tell you why your relationship with him

1:04:44

is so difficult for her. The

1:04:47

second part of the conversation, if she's open

1:04:49

to it, is inviting her to consider, not

1:04:52

even to decide, just to consider why

1:04:54

Aaron continues to get under her skin

1:04:56

so much, why you guys having a

1:04:58

casual friendship with him is a non-starter.

1:05:00

I agree completely. And I also know that

1:05:02

there are people listening right now going, he

1:05:05

cheated on her with escorts, and he probably

1:05:07

broke her heart. So why does she have

1:05:09

to be open to giving this guy another

1:05:11

chance? She's well within her rights to tell

1:05:13

her family, you should not be talking to

1:05:15

this guy, he's terrible, he ruined my life,

1:05:17

blah, blah, blah. And I get it, I

1:05:20

really do get it, but I also think

1:05:22

there's gotta be some room for people to

1:05:24

change, for the narrative to change, right? So

1:05:26

as you talk, I would also maybe consider

1:05:28

sharing with her what it's like to be

1:05:30

stuck in the middle here. You might even wanna

1:05:32

say, look, as your mom, I am on your

1:05:35

side, and I know how hard this was for

1:05:37

you. Remember, I was the one who cried with

1:05:39

you. I told you that we would support you

1:05:41

whatever you decided. But what I'm seeing, from my

1:05:43

perspective, is a guy who has meaningfully changed, who's

1:05:45

putting in the time and energy to repair his

1:05:48

relationships, and I think he deserves that chance. I

1:05:50

appreciate that. Your brother also has a friendship

1:05:52

with Aaron, and that's separate from your relationship with him. So

1:05:54

I know how much it hurts you to know that

1:05:56

we're talking to him and being nice to him, and I

1:05:58

wanna be sensitive to that. But also, it makes

1:06:01

me feel like I'm a disloyal mother when I'm

1:06:03

not totally sure that I need to choose here,

1:06:05

you know, something like that. And then see if

1:06:07

your daughter can empathize with you a little bit.

1:06:09

She might not or she might say, okay, I

1:06:11

understand what this is like for you, but still,

1:06:13

I'm sorry, it's just too weird for me. But

1:06:16

I do wonder if you've put it in those terms with

1:06:18

her before in a way that

1:06:20

maybe hopefully allows your daughter to consider that

1:06:22

there are other angles on Erin besides hers.

1:06:25

I think that would be an interesting conversation no

1:06:27

matter what. Even if the daughter doesn't change, my

1:06:30

hunch is that she's not going to change, but

1:06:32

it's worth a shot. I also have this feeling

1:06:34

that there's something deeper going on here. I don't

1:06:36

know if this is just about Erin. You know,

1:06:39

her daughter might be feeling fairly or unfairly. I

1:06:41

don't know that her family isn't really on her

1:06:43

side in general. And Erin

1:06:45

is just a specific, very charged

1:06:47

example of that. Or she

1:06:49

might feel that her family really is on

1:06:51

her side in every other way. So suddenly

1:06:53

finding herself at odds with them about this

1:06:56

guy, that might be very scary and

1:06:58

destabilizing. And she's having these meltdowns, not so

1:07:00

much about Erin specifically, but about the rules

1:07:04

of her relationship with her family, what they

1:07:06

owe her, how they protect her, who comes

1:07:08

first. If that's what's going on,

1:07:10

then you might want to orient the conversation around that. What

1:07:13

else this Erin thing might be bringing up for her.

1:07:15

But that would still be something she could work on,

1:07:17

right? I think so. Yeah, so do I. Because

1:07:19

there's a version of events where she goes, look,

1:07:22

I can't have a relationship with Erin. I don't

1:07:24

think he deserves another chance. And I find it

1:07:26

kind of awkward that you all want to be

1:07:28

friends with him. But hey, if that's what you

1:07:30

want, OK, fine. Right, right. She can make room

1:07:32

for both of those things. But the fact that

1:07:34

she wants the whole family to fall in line

1:07:36

behind her for reasons that, again, I can understand

1:07:39

up to a point, that signals to me that

1:07:41

making room for multiple perspectives and feelings and choices,

1:07:43

that might actually be really hard for her. And

1:07:45

I wonder if that's a theme across her life.

1:07:48

So before you decide to sneak around or whatever

1:07:50

with Erin, I'd at least try to drag this

1:07:52

into the open and have a conversation with your

1:07:54

daughter. You might decide to pull back with

1:07:56

Erin. I don't know if you feel like that's appropriate and

1:07:58

her feelings make sense. You're not BFFs

1:08:00

with a guy, but you're still friendly. Or you

1:08:02

might decide to say, look, honey, I love you.

1:08:05

I can see that this is still very painful

1:08:07

for you. But I'm going to be civil with

1:08:09

Aaron when I run into him because I have

1:08:11

enough information to believe that he's genuinely changed and

1:08:13

I feel that he deserves that. Both

1:08:15

are fair, but I think you need to gather some

1:08:17

more data first. I also don't think you need to

1:08:20

decide this on behalf of your son. He

1:08:22

has his own relationship with Aaron. They're actually the closest

1:08:24

out of everybody in the situation. And yeah, I think

1:08:26

her brother needs to have a version of this conversation

1:08:28

with his sister as well. Good point. He

1:08:31

can be part of the conversation as

1:08:33

a family, but I feel like they

1:08:35

all, the mom, the brother, the daughter,

1:08:37

they all individually could benefit from making

1:08:39

room for everyone to have different feelings

1:08:41

and relationships with Aaron. That might actually

1:08:43

be the real question of this letter,

1:08:45

how to get more comfortable with that

1:08:47

idea. So get to talking and go

1:08:49

from there. Good luck. All right,

1:08:51

next up. Hey guys, my daughter

1:08:53

is a beautiful and wonderfully creative

1:08:55

artist. She's 18, but she's inexperienced

1:08:57

in love and sex and lives

1:08:59

at home here in Canada. We

1:09:02

have a close relationship and we talk

1:09:04

openly. She suffered a lot in

1:09:06

high school with anxiety, mainly due to COVID

1:09:08

and online school. She's been in therapy for

1:09:11

several years and loves her therapist. Recently,

1:09:13

she fell in love with a 23-year-old man from

1:09:16

the United States whom she met while online

1:09:18

gaming. They spend every day online together when

1:09:20

she isn't working at her part-time job and

1:09:22

regularly leave their phones open while they sleep.

1:09:25

He sent her gifts, including a necklace with his

1:09:27

name on it. He's a freelance creator with a

1:09:29

high school education. My daughter has

1:09:31

taken a gap year and just found out

1:09:33

that she's been accepted to a high-ranking art

1:09:36

school here in Canada, which we're very excited

1:09:38

about. I'm not too worried about

1:09:40

his lack of post-secondary education, but I do

1:09:42

wonder how he runs a freelance business and

1:09:44

hustles for new clients when he spends so

1:09:47

much time online with my daughter. I'm

1:09:49

now experiencing an extreme anxiety that

1:09:51

is keeping me up at night

1:09:53

and putting me on a roller

1:09:55

coaster. Sometimes my worries are assuaged

1:09:57

somewhat, but other times, I'm freaking

1:09:59

out. out that my daughter's boyfriend could

1:10:01

be a nefarious human being. Or

1:10:03

worse, a human trafficker. At

1:10:06

first, I wasn't even convinced he was who he

1:10:08

said he was. But now I

1:10:10

have his phone number, have checked out his LinkedIn

1:10:12

account, and have even been texting back and forth

1:10:14

with him. He has a merch line, and does

1:10:16

branding and web design as well. They're

1:10:19

arranging an in-person visit to his state next

1:10:21

month, where she'll stay with him in an

1:10:23

Airbnb. He lives with his

1:10:25

mother, who's an alcoholic, so they can't

1:10:27

stay at his place. I

1:10:29

insist on going with her for this first

1:10:31

meeting. Still, I'll stay in separate accommodations about

1:10:33

a mile away from theirs for five days

1:10:35

out of the two weeks she's staying there.

1:10:37

I tried to convince her to have their

1:10:39

first meeting in person here in Canada, but

1:10:42

she flatly refused. She's already

1:10:44

transferred money to him for the accommodations, and will

1:10:47

use some of her savings for the flights. I'm

1:10:50

a well-rounded, worldly, liberal mother who

1:10:52

has traveled extensively and lived in

1:10:54

an Asian country for several years,

1:10:56

so I'm not a prude, nor

1:10:58

averse to solo international travel. We've

1:11:01

discussed things like safety and birth control, which

1:11:03

she just started. I plan to discuss an

1:11:05

exit strategy with her, including where she'll go

1:11:07

and who to call if she feels uncomfortable

1:11:09

or something happens once I leave. We'll also

1:11:11

get US SIM cards for our phones so

1:11:14

we can call freely, and I want to

1:11:16

track her phone as well, if

1:11:18

she lets me. My biggest fear is

1:11:20

that this could go very badly, and something

1:11:22

terrible could happen to her. But

1:11:25

she's 18, and if I forbid her

1:11:27

from going, she'd go anyway, damaging our

1:11:29

close relationship. How can I be

1:11:31

sure that this man will not harm my child?

1:11:34

Do I just let it play out? Am I

1:11:36

a bad parent for even letting her go in

1:11:38

the first place? Or am I being too extreme

1:11:40

with my fear and anxiety? Signed,

1:11:42

Watching my daughter grow abroad for

1:11:44

a dude who might be flawed,

1:11:46

a fraud, or a straight-up outlaw.

1:11:49

Or do I just need to thaw toward

1:11:51

a bra who really hasn't done anything wrong?

1:12:00

much like her daughter's phone calls with a boyfriend. Yeah,

1:12:02

your rhymes are taking my battery to 10%. Well,

1:12:06

look, this is cute in some

1:12:08

ways because the story is like 90% about a parent letting

1:12:11

go of their baby. So look, I

1:12:13

can certainly understand your fear and anxiety

1:12:15

as a parent. My daughter's only two.

1:12:17

I can't even imagine the day she

1:12:20

starts traveling internationally and meeting boys and

1:12:22

carving out a life for herself. She's

1:12:24

texting me from Italy, like, I'm going

1:12:26

out with some dudes I just met

1:12:28

at a bar, oh my God, nightmare

1:12:30

feel, right? I really do appreciate why this

1:12:32

is so hard for you. You and your

1:12:35

daughter are super close. You talk openly. That

1:12:37

means you guys have probably been close her

1:12:39

whole life, and I'm sure this is a

1:12:41

very big milestone, a very meaningful transition for

1:12:44

both of you. I also feel

1:12:46

that your questions and concerns about this guy

1:12:48

are appropriate to a degree. We all know

1:12:50

there are bad people out there. There are

1:12:53

men who target vulnerable women online. You're not

1:12:55

totally crazy to feel anxious about your daughter

1:12:57

flying to another country to meet an online

1:13:00

gamer for the first time, okay? Also,

1:13:02

their relationship does sound very intense and

1:13:04

all-consuming, which isn't by itself dangerous, but

1:13:06

it is a little curious. I can

1:13:08

understand why your spidey senses are going

1:13:10

off there too. Although honestly, it

1:13:12

also just kind of sounds like young love, what

1:13:14

people do in their late teens, early 20s, they

1:13:16

fall asleep with their phones on. I

1:13:19

mean, I did that stuff. The constant conversations online,

1:13:21

all that stuff. I mean, I just don't know

1:13:23

if that's inherently bad. I think it's quite normal.

1:13:25

But you raise a fair question. How does he

1:13:27

find time for work when he's spending so much

1:13:29

time with her? But then you make time for

1:13:31

what you want to make time for. I mean,

1:13:33

this relationship is still new. It sounds like they're

1:13:36

very much in the honeymoon, puppy love phase, the

1:13:38

shmoopy phase, and in a way that's kind of

1:13:40

sweet. So look, you know this,

1:13:42

but your daughter's an adult. She can legally

1:13:44

make her own choices. But yeah, she's still

1:13:46

very young and she doesn't have a ton

1:13:48

of experience in this arena. And I think

1:13:50

kids in her generation are lagging behind a

1:13:52

little bit in this department because of the

1:13:54

lockdowns, which You did say were

1:13:57

hard on her. So That's a meaningful

1:13:59

detail. So. You look out for her

1:14:01

taking these precautions with her, not for her

1:14:03

but with her. I think that's wise. I

1:14:05

think it's responsible and I think that's still

1:14:07

may be kind of party or jobs or

1:14:09

mom. But. I gotta say, I'm

1:14:12

not terribly worried about this guy. Yeah, he's

1:14:14

a little bit older, but he's not like

1:14:16

thirty seventies, twenty three. It's not totally crazy

1:14:18

for a twenty three year old and an

1:14:20

eighteen year old to be dating. And my

1:14:22

opinion, although some people might disagree, twenty five,

1:14:24

Twenty six, Twenty seven. And that's where it

1:14:26

starts to become. A little says because at

1:14:28

that age I remember being like I'm not

1:14:30

even interested in is like children who are

1:14:33

eighteen nineteen twenty. they can't even get into

1:14:35

bars. You know that? That would be weird.

1:14:37

But when I was twenty three, I don't

1:14:39

know by Gov. homeless probably like twenty. One

1:14:41

I can't remember and remember that his social

1:14:43

development probably been hindered a little the to

1:14:45

by the whole cove a day. More.

1:14:48

Importantly, this guy runs his own business. You

1:14:50

checked out as linked in I'm assuming he

1:14:52

has a public internet presence given his Mertz

1:14:54

line and branding and as design work in

1:14:56

all his stuff in your touch of them

1:14:58

directly. It's not like a nameless faceless dude

1:15:00

your daughter's flying to another country to meet

1:15:02

me, does like crypto, gambling or something or

1:15:05

hates this is a real person who presumably

1:15:07

use that. It is bullish. you could. Now

1:15:09

if I were in your shoes, I'd probably

1:15:11

want to have at least a face time

1:15:13

with this guy before he flies out. You

1:15:15

don't have to go full. Robert De Niro.

1:15:17

And meet the Fockers but just a brief yeah

1:15:20

I, how's it going? Nice to meet you, tell

1:15:22

me about you tell you but the trip? what

1:15:24

do you guys have planned and just get a

1:15:26

feel for the guy looking money I study as

1:15:28

vibe. You'll learn a lot just by interacting with

1:15:31

them, even if it's virtual. Texting is good, but

1:15:33

it's one step removed. It's much easier to hide

1:15:35

stuff that way. Also of the you are going

1:15:37

there for five days and that you're gonna be

1:15:40

there for their first meeting, you're not staying in

1:15:42

the air Bnb with them. That would be creepily

1:15:44

inappropriate, but you're just down the road so you're

1:15:46

there if anything happens. that sounds healthy

1:15:48

and appropriately boundary to me you figured out

1:15:50

how to be in touch you've developed an

1:15:53

exit strategy if she needs one tracking her

1:15:55

phone i mean some people might think that's

1:15:57

overkill or a little overstep be given that

1:15:59

she's an adult, but if she's okay with it

1:16:02

and it would put you at ease, then sure,

1:16:04

why not? I mean, Jen's got tracking on my

1:16:06

phone and it's not so she can control my

1:16:08

life. It's so that if there's an emergency or

1:16:10

anything, she's like, oh, okay, or if I say

1:16:12

I'm gonna be somewhere and then I'm at a

1:16:14

different place, she's like, hey, are you okay? What's

1:16:17

going on? You know, you've been stuck in the

1:16:19

same place for a while on the road. I

1:16:21

would just be thoughtful about not tracking her obsessively

1:16:23

or watching their every move. You could check in

1:16:25

a couple times a day, you know, if they're

1:16:27

not home or something like that, super

1:16:30

late at night, whatever. I mean, if you don't

1:16:32

hear from her for a few hours, sure. It's

1:16:34

just there in case something really unexpected happens. You

1:16:36

can track her location just for this trip. You

1:16:38

can turn it off when she gets home. It

1:16:41

doesn't have to be a permanent arrangement. You can

1:16:43

settle that in the beginning. And hey, if you

1:16:45

see the dots moving toward the Mexican border at

1:16:47

double digit speeds at three o'clock in the morning,

1:16:49

then yeah, call Highway Patrol. Otherwise,

1:16:51

go get a mani-pedi. Do some shopping.

1:16:53

Enjoy the trip yourself, too. All

1:16:56

in all, the plan sounds pretty damn solid. You've

1:16:58

landed on a set of agreements and plans and

1:17:00

tools that respect your autonomy while still protecting

1:17:02

her. And if you had written in asking

1:17:04

what you should do to prepare, we probably

1:17:07

would have recommended something similar. So well done.

1:17:09

Yeah, I'm with you, Jordan. I'm not too

1:17:11

worried either, except if I were this guy

1:17:13

and I knew that my girlfriend's mother was

1:17:15

uneasy about this trip, the first thing I

1:17:17

would want to do is put her at

1:17:19

ease. Yeah. So the fact that he

1:17:21

hasn't called the mom or FaceTimed her and been like, hey,

1:17:23

I just want to say hi and I want to get

1:17:26

to know you and show you that I'm a real person

1:17:28

who cares about your daughter. That does strike me as a

1:17:30

little bit weird, maybe not dangerous, but maybe not

1:17:32

the most thoughtful or attuned to the situation. And

1:17:34

that is something to factor in and keep an

1:17:36

eye on a little bit. It's funny, I thought

1:17:39

I was rambling earlier, so I didn't say anything

1:17:41

about this, but I violently agree with that, right?

1:17:43

Because if I'm this dude, and it's hard because

1:17:45

I'm 44 now, I'm like, when

1:17:48

I was 23, would I have thought of

1:17:50

this? And the answer is probably not, I guess. But as

1:17:52

a 43-year-old pretending to be a 23-year-old for

1:17:55

the purposes of this question, if I'm

1:17:57

this dude, I'm insisting that we all...

1:18:00

go out to dinner together on the very

1:18:02

first night. Maybe I meet her real quick

1:18:04

and we hug and all that stuff, but

1:18:06

I meet her with Mom and I'm like,

1:18:08

hi Mom, and then we all go to

1:18:10

dinner. And yeah, we're gonna wanna like smooch

1:18:12

right away and it's gonna be not what

1:18:14

we had envisioned, but it's also like, you

1:18:16

know, plenty of time for that. Potentially our

1:18:18

whole lives for that, right? So the charm

1:18:21

offensive you're about to see, if this is

1:18:23

me, it is gonna rival, it's

1:18:25

gonna be D-Day of winning over Mom, okay?

1:18:28

He could even put his phone under tracking if

1:18:30

he wanted to, like hey, I'm gonna temporarily share my

1:18:32

location with you so that you know where we are.

1:18:34

I don't know if you have it, it's set up

1:18:37

for your daughter, but I just want you to feel

1:18:39

safe, know where we are, you know, so you know

1:18:41

we're not racing around at all hours and all that

1:18:43

stuff. I would just be so cautious about that. But

1:18:45

again, I'm 44 and have kids and I'm

1:18:47

trying to put myself in the shoes of a 23

1:18:49

year old who's like not picking about this stuff. And

1:18:51

I'm not sure it's fair to be like, oh, you

1:18:53

should be thinking about this stuff. I don't think that's

1:18:55

realistic. There's another interesting detail that's jumping out at me

1:18:58

which is this guy's mother. She's struggling with an addiction

1:19:01

which is really sad. So I am glad that

1:19:03

your daughter won't be in that environment. They're getting

1:19:05

their own Airbnb which I think, that's

1:19:08

the right move. But I wonder what impact

1:19:10

his mother has had on him over the

1:19:12

years and how that shaped him as a

1:19:14

person because growing up with an addicted parent

1:19:17

is as we all know very intense and

1:19:19

traumatic and it often creates a series of

1:19:21

traumas. And the dynamic between a child and

1:19:23

a parent with an addiction is complicated. There

1:19:25

can be a lot of caretaking, sometimes a

1:19:28

lot of enmeshment. There's often a codependency at

1:19:30

work in those relationships. So I can't

1:19:32

help but connect up a few dots

1:19:34

here and I am speculating, I know.

1:19:36

But I do wonder if there's some

1:19:38

connection between how intense and all consuming

1:19:40

their relationship is and his experience

1:19:42

growing up with a mother like this.

1:19:44

Yeah, interesting because that could just be

1:19:46

that schmoopy phase I mentioned earlier or

1:19:48

it might be another version of the codependency

1:19:51

that he might have experienced with his

1:19:53

mom. Possibly and that is a concern

1:19:55

but it's not the concern that our friend

1:19:57

here seems to be most interested in.

1:20:00

with keeping her up at night. But then also,

1:20:02

this stuff is not really her business. But anyway,

1:20:04

none of this means that this guy is bad

1:20:06

or dangerous by any means. Again, it's not his

1:20:08

fault that his mom is like this. For all

1:20:11

we know, he's totally aware of this and he's

1:20:13

working on it and his relationship with her daughter

1:20:15

is very different. It's just an interesting detail in

1:20:17

context. Right. Good point. And that might be something

1:20:19

that she can encourage her daughter to learn more

1:20:22

about on this trip because I have

1:20:24

to think that's a big part of who this guy is. So

1:20:27

the reality is, there's no way to 100%

1:20:29

know that this guy won't harm your daughter.

1:20:31

All you guys can do is be as

1:20:33

thorough and rigorous as possible and do your

1:20:36

recon. My hope is that your

1:20:38

daughter's judgment and your homework gives you a

1:20:40

high degree of confidence that this guy isn't

1:20:42

a risk, which I think you have some

1:20:45

good reasons to believe. I would also remember

1:20:47

that in another version of events, your daughter

1:20:49

would be dating this guy and making this

1:20:51

plan without your involvement, maybe even without your

1:20:54

knowing at all. And that's

1:20:56

her right as an adult, even if it's kind

1:20:58

of terrifying. It also doesn't mean she's fully equipped to

1:21:00

make the best decisions. It doesn't mean bad things can't

1:21:02

happen to her, but she's at an age now where

1:21:04

she's allowed to do what she wants. Part

1:21:07

of her job is individuating from you in

1:21:09

a healthy way and enjoying a larger degree

1:21:11

of privacy. I mean, look, if she goes

1:21:13

to this art school she got into, which

1:21:15

is super exciting, by the way, presumably she's

1:21:17

going to be making plans with all sorts

1:21:19

of people that you don't know about. Certainly,

1:21:21

if she's not living at home while she

1:21:23

attends. And that's what she should be doing.

1:21:25

Yes, that's exactly right. So to that point,

1:21:27

rather than fixating on your fear and anxiety,

1:21:29

I would use them to educate and empower

1:21:32

your daughter to make the best possible judgments,

1:21:34

the best possible choices for herself. You will

1:21:36

not always be there to protect her. You

1:21:38

can't, and you shouldn't. Like Jordan said, this

1:21:40

trip is a very big deal for both

1:21:42

of you because it's the first big experience

1:21:44

that she's carving out for herself as an

1:21:46

adult, or mostly for herself. But this is

1:21:48

really an opportunity for her to learn how

1:21:50

to step into her individuality, her autonomy, and

1:21:52

for you as a mom to learn how

1:21:54

to let go and trust her.

1:21:56

You're not going to find the peace you're looking

1:21:58

for by keeping your daughter close and never

1:22:01

allowing her to travel and forbidding her

1:22:03

from dating people you don't know, you're

1:22:05

going to find it by helping her

1:22:07

learn and grow and become a discerning,

1:22:09

well-equipped adult so that you can be

1:22:11

confident she's taking the best possible care

1:22:13

of herself. And that might be

1:22:16

really hard for you to come to terms with. It is

1:22:18

for most loving parents, I have to imagine. But

1:22:20

it's especially hard for you given your special

1:22:22

relationship with your daughter. But letting her grow

1:22:24

up and live her life, that isn't losing

1:22:26

her. And it's not necessarily subjecting

1:22:29

her to all kinds of terrible risks

1:22:31

out there. It's allowing her

1:22:33

to flourish, you know, flourish responsibly. And

1:22:35

you guys can still be close, but the terms of

1:22:37

that closeness are probably going to change over the next

1:22:40

few years. And that is exactly

1:22:42

what they're supposed to do. And if

1:22:44

there are any shades of enmeshment or

1:22:46

codependency between you guys, which I think

1:22:49

there might be, which is not unusual

1:22:51

in parent-child relationships like yours, then part

1:22:53

of the anxiety that you're experiencing these

1:22:55

days might be just seeing that and

1:22:58

starting to rewrite it, which again, that

1:23:01

is so important. Agreed. So

1:23:03

just keep using these feelings to plan responsibly,

1:23:05

which you're doing, and then work through them

1:23:08

on your own. Also, you mentioned

1:23:10

that your daughter's in therapy. She likes her therapist.

1:23:12

I assume she's talked to her therapist about this

1:23:14

guy and about this trip. And if that therapist

1:23:16

is even halfway decent, they've probably also been helping

1:23:18

your daughter think through this and make the best

1:23:20

decisions here. That's my hope anyway. So I don't

1:23:22

recommend overstepping with your daughter or meddling in her

1:23:24

therapy, but I do think it's fair for you

1:23:26

to say, hey, have you talked to Paul about

1:23:28

this? Does he have any good insight? And if

1:23:30

she's like, actually, yeah, we've been talking about this

1:23:32

for six weeks, I ran it all by him.

1:23:35

That might also help put you at ease. So I

1:23:37

hope you all have a good trip, a safe trip, an

1:23:39

interesting trip. You're doing so much right here. And

1:23:41

I think once you meet this guy, you have

1:23:43

a little bit more data that they're doing okay,

1:23:45

you'll feel a lot better. And

1:23:47

you guys will embark on the next chapter of your

1:23:50

relationship, which is really great. As

1:23:52

for a parent, but great. And if he shows

1:23:54

up at the airport and he's wearing those BDSM

1:23:56

yoga cult leather bracelets that Gabe has, I would

1:23:58

just run. red flag right

1:24:00

there. I don't know. It depends who his

1:24:02

bead guy is. Depends who the bead guy

1:24:04

is. If it's Bida's, you're good. You know,

1:24:06

if it's Mike or Shannon, your daughter's in

1:24:09

good hands. If you're, you know, if not,

1:24:11

yeah, maybe catch the next flight home. That's right.

1:24:14

That's right. And let me know how it

1:24:16

goes so I can prepare for this situation in 16 years

1:24:18

with Juniper. I am taking notes over here. Hope you all

1:24:21

enjoyed that. I want to thank everybody who wrote in this

1:24:23

week and everybody who listened. Thank you so much. The best

1:24:25

things that have happened in my life and business have come

1:24:27

through my network, the circle of people that I know, like

1:24:29

and trust. And I'm teaching you how to

1:24:31

build the same thing for yourself in the

1:24:34

6-Minute Networking Course which is free. It is

1:24:36

not gross. It's not schmoozy. You can find

1:24:38

it on the Thinkific platform. Again, it's free.

1:24:40

It's 6-Minute networking.com. Dig that well

1:24:42

before you get thirsty, folks. Build those relationships

1:24:44

before you need them. Also, there is a

1:24:46

subreddit for the show. It's quite small right

1:24:48

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1:24:50

short conversations with listeners about the episodes there.

1:24:53

Again, it's not ours. Somebody moderates it. I've

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written to them. I don't know if they

1:24:57

respond so who knows. Maybe there's no moderator.

1:24:59

You can find it on Reddit under Jordan Harbinger.

1:25:01

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1:25:39

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1:25:41

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1:25:43

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1:25:45

but I'm not your lawyer. Do your own

1:25:48

research before implementing anything you hear on the

1:25:50

show. And I'm not your big guy either.

1:25:52

Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the

1:25:54

show with those you love. And if you

1:25:56

found the episode useful, please share it with

1:25:58

somebody who could use the advice we gave

1:26:00

here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what

1:26:02

you hear on the show so you can live what

1:26:04

you learn. And we'll see you next time. Here's

1:26:09

what you should check out next on the Jordan Harbinger

1:26:11

Show. There is no pill that cures

1:26:14

malignant narcissism. There just isn't. You

1:26:16

can't take a pill for it.

1:26:19

Character flaws are fixed and rigid

1:26:21

and they remain with us and

1:26:23

it would take heroic efforts on

1:26:26

the part of the person to

1:26:29

overcome these things. Only

1:26:31

they can fix themselves. The

1:26:34

point is things will not get

1:26:36

better so document everything. The person

1:26:38

with the best set of records

1:26:40

of events wins. I have

1:26:42

to be honest and say, look, as

1:26:44

you said Jordan, it's not going to get

1:26:46

better. Things will get worse and

1:26:49

unfortunately it usually does.

1:26:51

And the person that pays the

1:26:53

price are those

1:26:55

that are closest to the

1:26:57

malignant narcissist. Once

1:26:59

I teach you to look

1:27:01

for these behaviors, you will never forget

1:27:03

them. You will be more

1:27:06

aware and you will be able to

1:27:08

notice them. And when

1:27:10

we begin to accumulate these behaviors

1:27:12

and we aggregate them and

1:27:15

they go into that checklist, you know, there's

1:27:17

130 something items

1:27:19

on the predator checklist and

1:27:22

you say, wow, this person tops

1:27:24

50. This

1:27:26

individual will put you

1:27:28

at risk. They

1:27:31

will victimize you. It

1:27:33

doesn't matter where you're at. There

1:27:35

is no safe place. There is

1:27:37

no safe church. All

1:27:40

it takes is one predator to

1:27:43

undo all of that. For

1:27:45

more on dangerous personality types and how to

1:27:48

spot them before they can do damage to

1:27:50

you or those you love, check out episode

1:27:52

135 with Joe Navarro here on the Jordan

1:27:55

Harbinger show. From

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pit lane to podium, the Las Vegas

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Grand Prix is providing fans a race

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day experience at the speed they deserve

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with the help of T-Mobile for Business.

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Our 5G advanced network solutions are powering

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race day operations with event-wide connectivity. From

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streamlined gate entry to an immersive app,

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giving fans blazing fast access to the

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sport they love. This is accelerating innovation.

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This is the Las Vegas Grand Prix

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with T-Mobile for Business. Take your business

1:28:27

further at t-mobile.com flash now. Life

1:28:33

is a highway, and on it there will

1:28:35

be many chicken sandwiches. But there's

1:28:37

only one McCrispy. So go ahead and

1:28:40

hit the turn signal if you know

1:28:42

about this juicy gem of

1:28:44

a detour.