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0:31

The delicious ice cold taste of Dr. Pepper

0:33

has a lasting effect on people. Lindsay from

0:35

Sacramento said... Pro tip, 40 degrees is

0:37

the perfect temperature for an ice cold Dr. Pepper. Why

0:40

is 40 degrees the perfect temperature for Dr.

0:42

Pepper? We brought in Sue from Duluth, Minnesota to

0:44

tell us. Oh yeah, I know a thing or two

0:47

about cold. Oh, that right there is the

0:49

perfect kind of ice cold for Dr. Pepper. I'd

0:52

share that with my friend Nancy. She likes Dr.

0:54

Pepper too, you know. My coldest... Alright, that'll

0:56

be all, Sue. Having a perfect temperature for

0:58

your Dr. Pepper? It's a Pepper thing. Inspired

1:00

by Real Fan Posts. Welcome

1:05

to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan

1:07

Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback

1:09

Friday producer, a dude who's been living

1:11

in a Corona commercial the last few

1:14

weeks, Gabriel Mizrahi. Seriously, dude, it was

1:16

like a screensaver come to life. It

1:18

was amazing. Brazil does look amazing. Yeah, it

1:21

looks... Way to give me major FOMO. You

1:23

look all fresh and tan and I'm like,

1:25

hi, I'm a little bit sick again today,

1:27

guys. Yeah, you're okay, man. You sound a

1:29

little under the weather. Yeah, so Jaden... I

1:31

sleep with Jaden, right? I sleep with a

1:34

four-year-old and he wants to snuggle, which

1:36

is priceless, actually, so I wouldn't trade it. But, you

1:38

know, he's in preschool, so he comes home with a

1:40

new virus every couple weeks and he sniffles... Just a

1:42

Petri dish in your bed? Just sneeze right in your

1:45

face at four o'clock in the morning. And what are

1:47

you going to do? You know, there's nothing you can

1:49

do about it. And so,

1:51

eventually, my immune system has caved after

1:53

months of him sneezing directly in my

1:56

face or wiping boogers, probably, on me

1:58

or adjacent to me. And that's

2:00

what happens. And I hope you listen to this when you're 25,

2:02

Jaden, and you feel bad about this.

2:04

No, I'm just kidding. So I have like virus

2:06

du jour. I like that you think your son

2:08

is gonna spend his 20s going

2:10

through the back catalog of your podcast. Of

2:12

my wisdom. You know what this reminds me

2:14

of? You ever see King of Queens?

2:17

No. It's a sitcom with Jerry

2:20

Stiller and Kevin James. And former show guest,

2:22

Leah Remini, who was a Scientologist and now

2:24

speaks out against Scientology. Anyway, that's neither here

2:26

nor there. There's one episode

2:29

where Jerry Stiller, R.I.P., he

2:31

keeps ordering like Indian takeout food. And he's

2:33

like, you're gonna write my mentors. And the

2:35

delivery kid's like, no, here's your pick and

2:37

vindaloo man, just leave me alone. And he's

2:39

like, sit down, let me tell you about

2:41

my life. That's what I feel like right

2:43

now, assuming that Jaden's gonna spend any time

2:45

listening to this. That's you and Jaden on

2:47

your podcast. Dad, I don't even know how

2:49

to play a podcast. Those MP3s or whatever

2:51

you call them, they don't even play on

2:53

phones anymore. It doesn't download

2:55

automatically to my neuro link. That's right,

2:57

yeah, there's no visual element. It's so

2:59

weird. Anyway, I don't know why

3:01

we're talking about this because no one else

3:04

cares. On the Jordan Harbinger Show, though, which

3:06

you do care about, presumably, we decode the

3:08

stories, secrets and skills of the world's most

3:10

fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical

3:12

advice that you can use to impact your

3:14

own life and those around you. Our mission

3:16

is to help you become a better informed,

3:18

more critical thinker. And during the week, we

3:20

have long-form conversations with a variety of amazing

3:22

folks from spies to CEOs, neuroscientists, astronauts, music

3:24

moguls and tech luminaries. On Fridays,

3:27

though, we share stories, take listener letters,

3:29

offer advice, play obnoxious sound bites and

3:31

mercilessly roast Gabe for his undying commitment

3:33

to the Cabanito lifestyle. Speaking of FOMO,

3:35

Gabe, I was thinking a lot while

3:37

you were away about the difference between

3:39

FOMO, so fear of missing out, and

3:41

ambition. And it's interesting, I'm not totally

3:44

sure how to separate the two. So

3:46

let's say that somebody lives like a nomadic lifestyle

3:49

and they're bringing their kids to a different country

3:51

every month and they're homeschooling them and I'm like,

3:53

oh my God, that looks awesome. And

3:56

I kinda wanna do it. But then, do

3:58

I wanna do that because other people. people

4:00

are doing something similar and some of it

4:02

looks nice. Do I feel like

4:04

I'm behind because I haven't figured that out?

4:06

Or do I want something because there's value

4:08

to it that I actually have another sort

4:11

of intrinsic motivation to achieve or attain? Maybe

4:14

the traveling nomadic lifestyle thing isn't a good

4:16

example, but I'll see somebody who has like

4:18

a giant YouTube channel and they have a

4:20

podcast where our YouTube channel is sort of

4:23

like hit or miss controversial videos do well,

4:25

science stuff like no one cares somehow in

4:27

YouTube because the algorithm doesn't pick it up.

4:30

And it's really interesting and I'm like, oh man, I

4:32

really want that. But it's like, do I care? I

4:35

don't really think that I do care. I

4:37

think I just feel lacking, which is totally

4:39

different than having the ambition to create

4:42

something. And I also see

4:44

a lot of unhealthy ambition. I know

4:46

friends of mine that have serious self-worth

4:48

issues, they're brilliant creators, but they basically

4:50

live to become famous so they can

4:52

get the approval and appreciation of complete

4:54

strangers. And they're successful in that,

4:56

but when you peel away those layers, they're totally

4:58

miserable. And I'm like, this person, I don't

5:00

even know if they have ambition. Their life

5:03

is like pure FOMO, but it looks to

5:05

them like ambition because it's all they have.

5:07

Isn't it interesting how many of the things

5:10

we want are dependent on what

5:12

other people want? Like so much

5:14

of what we care about is in reference

5:16

to what other people seem to care about

5:18

and they themselves might not be asking themselves

5:21

why I care about this in the first place. No. The

5:24

reason I'm here is it's really easy to do this

5:26

with material things. So I had a buddy who was

5:28

driving, I don't know, whatever, like a

5:30

Toyota Corolla, for example, I can't remember now, and he was

5:32

like, yeah, I'm going to get a new car soon. I was

5:34

like, why? This car is fine. He's like, I

5:36

want to get a BMW. And I said, why? And he goes, I

5:38

feel like I'm the only person in the neighborhood that doesn't have one.

5:41

And I'm like, that's the dumbest reason that

5:43

I've ever heard to get a nicer

5:45

car. You think, and you have no

5:47

data for this, that your neighbors are judging you because

5:49

you don't have one, which maybe they are, but also

5:51

you don't even know those people. He never talked to

5:53

them. Who cares? And he was like,

5:56

oh, yeah, that's a really good point. Now we were in

5:58

our 20s. This was deep back when we were like 20.

6:00

Right now, it's self-evident truth. But

6:03

as we get older and those things

6:05

become more complex, it's hard to

6:07

figure it out. Like when you go, oh, I

6:09

really want a promotion to director. You do? Because

6:12

yes, it comes with a little bit of

6:14

a salary bump, but every director in your

6:16

company is absolutely miserable and doesn't do any

6:18

of the cool work that you're working on

6:20

right now. They only manage projects at the

6:22

30,000-foot level, and they work twice as much.

6:25

You're making less per hour for sure. Do

6:27

you really want that? But

6:29

all my friends at this company are headed in

6:31

that direction, and I'll look that. If I stay

6:33

at this level, it's always something like that. It's

6:35

a lot easier to rationalize your way into it. But

6:37

if you tell somebody, if they're talking about a car, they're like,

6:39

oh, I don't care. It's just so

6:41

much easier, the more simple the thing is. Like

6:44

if it's a possession, you can sort of figure

6:46

out that you don't need it. But when it's

6:48

something that has to do with your identity, which

6:50

possessions often do not, unless you're really unhealthy, it's

6:53

so much harder. It's like,

6:55

am I a director at Apple, or am I

6:57

just an engineer working on the keyboard for the

6:59

new iPad? Right. Right.

7:02

Right. Disentangling those things is so interesting. And

7:04

there's also a theme on Feedback Friday. We

7:06

get letters from people quite often saying, I

7:08

really want this thing, but then I'm riddled

7:10

with conflict, and I have all this fear, and

7:12

I don't really know how to do it, and I

7:14

don't know whether I deserve it or whether... But also,

7:17

I'm happy. It's like, well, okay, let's take a step

7:19

back. Why do you want this in the first place?

7:21

That's a tough question. It's very difficult. So anyway,

7:24

I haven't solved this. I'm just sharing this, because

7:26

I think a lot of people probably feel the

7:28

same way. It's a constant battle for

7:30

me to be like, yeah, I'm not trying to build

7:33

a big social media presence, although there are exceptions to

7:35

that, because I don't really care about that. And I

7:37

have to just become okay with that. And then other

7:39

people are like, are you sure? Because so-and-so is

7:41

doing it. And it's like, oh, man, that does look

7:43

pretty cool. However, I kind of have to make some

7:45

important choices about what I'm going to leave behind, and

7:47

I'm just not willing to do that. Gabe, tell me

7:49

a little bit about Brazil, because it looked amazing. Yeah.

7:52

Speaking of FOMO versus Ambition. Right, exactly. A place

7:55

I would like to go, but not enough to

7:57

actually go there. But not really. It

8:01

was amazing, man. God, dude, I

8:03

have so many stories to tell you. We don't

8:05

have enough time to get into all of the

8:07

things. I was there for a few weeks and

8:09

I was there with a couple friends and we

8:11

rented this way too small

8:13

house in the jungle, basically, in this

8:16

really small town that was, I don't know,

8:18

like two or three hours away from the

8:20

capital of Bahia, the state in the northeast

8:22

that we were in. I have to tell

8:24

you about this one thing that happened that's

8:26

so funny. So on the second or third

8:28

day, we did a breath work workshop. A

8:31

teacher led a class. It was about an

8:33

hour and it was just about breathing, which

8:35

by the way was amazing and you don't

8:37

even have to roast me for the fact

8:39

that it's a breath work workshop in Brazil.

8:41

Thank you. But like 20 minutes into this

8:43

breath work class, I suddenly smell this smell

8:46

and I'm like, what is that smell?

8:48

Like, it smells kind of like cheese.

8:50

Someone's cheese breath. And I realized that

8:53

there are Cheeto feet in the vicinity.

8:56

Oh no, Cheeto feet detected. It was

8:58

like 20 or 30 people in the group.

9:02

So I was like, who, what? And then

9:05

all of a sudden I got really scared.

9:07

I got very paranoid that I had the

9:09

Cheeto feet. You know, everyone's shoes

9:11

off and we're still sitting pretty close to one

9:13

another. And I'm like, oh my God, do I

9:16

have Cheeto feet? And I was replaying the episode

9:18

where you talked about the flight to Tokyo and

9:20

I'm like in the middle of this class, I'm

9:22

subtly leaning down in butterfly pose, like trying

9:25

to smell my feet to see if they're

9:27

me. And I'm like, I don't think it

9:29

is, but I can't tell. And I swear to

9:31

God, half of this class was ruined

9:33

because I was so in my head about my

9:35

Cheeto, my potential Cheeto feet. But then the

9:37

smell went away and I was like, okay,

9:39

that's weird. I don't understand what's happening. I

9:41

went home at the end of it and

9:43

I, for like 10 minutes, I was just like

9:46

sniffing my feet in the house trying to figure

9:48

out if I was the culprit. And I

9:50

was like, and I even asked my friend,

9:52

I'm like, do I have Cheeto? She's like,

9:54

no, dude. No, it's the guy with the

9:56

greenish brown toenails. So that's definitely not me. But

9:58

I was dying laughing afterwards. because I really

10:00

enjoyed this class, it was really great,

10:02

but about half of it was intolerable.

10:05

Like I couldn't enjoy it at all

10:07

because I was so distracted by the

10:09

smell. And also it's a breath work

10:11

workshop. So you're just inhaling, smelling

10:14

the air so hard. Like

10:17

over and over and over again it was

10:19

horrifying. But yeah, I just had to tell

10:21

you about that because you kind of ruined

10:23

that class for me. Imagine the people next

10:25

to whoever had Cheeto feed and it's just

10:27

like inhale deep, get

10:30

a big breath of Gaia and it's like,

10:32

oh I'm taking a big breath of Gaia,

10:34

all right? This is Gaia's feet right next

10:36

to me. And they're

10:38

like one, and it's also so

10:40

slow too. Have you ever done

10:42

a breath work class? It was

10:44

like surprisingly no. One, two, three,

10:46

four, exhale, four, three, two. And

10:49

I'm like, in my head I'm like

10:51

inhale, Cheeto, feet one, exhale, wanna run

10:53

away because

10:56

it might be me, two, one. Yeah, no and

10:58

every time you're inhaling and smelling that it's just

11:00

fungal spores from some dude's feet that are looking

11:02

for a place to reproduce. The only upside was

11:05

that it was in the, it was a half

11:07

outdoor venue. So that's all that's left. If you

11:09

smell Cheeto feed outdoors, that dude has serious Cheeto

11:11

feed. That's the thing. Yeah, that's not even an

11:14

airplane cabin. You have no experience. No, my God.

11:16

Okay, so we're experimenting, posting clips

11:18

of the show on TikTok with the

11:20

help of our former intern Cole. I

11:23

was never interested in this. We posted on

11:25

TikTok for a minute a while back. Basically

11:27

no results whatsoever. I think it's possible that

11:30

we are shadow banned on there because of the China

11:32

episodes and our website is blocked in China. At least

11:34

a lot of people tell us that. So we're giving

11:36

it another go with a new approach. I'm curious to

11:38

see how we perform this time around. But if you're

11:40

on TikTok, you use it and you wanna see super

11:43

short clips from our library of guests, give us

11:45

a follow at Jordan Harbinger. Just my name is one

11:47

word. It would be awesome to connect on there and

11:49

it would be a huge help to us as we

11:51

build our following because I think it's all about momentum

11:53

there. All right, as always, we've got some fun ones.

11:56

We got some doozies. Gabe, what is the first thing

11:58

out of ye olde mailbag? I'm Jordan

12:00

and Gabe. I've been married for 12

12:02

years, it's a wonderful relationship with two

12:05

kids. Except for

12:07

one thing. I am a

12:09

sex addict, and my wife has

12:11

zero interest in sex. Okay.

12:15

Since getting pregnant with our second child, we've

12:17

pretty much almost never had sex. I'm still

12:19

crazy in love with her though, and everything

12:21

else about her relationship is great. I wish

12:24

you would be okay with polyamory because I

12:26

love how it feels to have a deep

12:28

romantic relationship and be sexually desired. But

12:31

my wife comes from a very orthodox

12:33

background and has made it very clear

12:35

that even watching porn is 100% not

12:37

okay. So

12:40

this is an interesting, quite mismatched

12:42

couple from the sound of it.

12:44

Yeah. Oof. Okay.

12:47

Last year, my wife found out about a sugar baby I

12:49

had been keeping. For those that are too pure to know

12:51

what a sugar baby is, it is a younger person who

12:54

provides romantic companionship or sexual

12:56

intimacy to a wealthier, usually

12:58

older person in return for

13:00

gifts or just straight up money. And if you're

13:03

asking what the difference is between that and a

13:05

sex worker, I'm not totally qualified to discuss

13:07

that. I think often this is sort of

13:09

like a relationship that's almost like a girlfriend

13:12

that you keep on the side that does

13:14

that for money. Again, the distinction is a...

13:16

It's kind of a gray area, isn't it?

13:18

It's a gray area. Mm-hmm. So

13:21

he goes on. We got divorced. It was messy. We

13:24

ended up getting back together. It's been

13:26

over a year and I haven't cheated

13:28

again, although it takes great determination.

13:31

Then recently, something from the past

13:34

resurfaced. Five years ago, I

13:36

met a lesbian couple that wanted to have

13:38

a baby. Ooh, here we go. They couldn't

13:40

decide who should carry it, so they decided

13:42

the best way was to let nature decide.

13:46

After Several months and some of the most wild

13:48

fun three people can have. one of them got

13:50

pregnant. So They just had a bunch of threesomes

13:53

and they were like, screw it, let's leave it

13:55

up to fate. Yeah, basically. I'm gonna go ahead

13:57

and guess this guy had all of the proper

13:59

paperwork and... Place for such an arrangement if

14:01

that even exists for this little game of

14:03

conception. Roulette. Yeah, let's find out. Okay, so

14:06

this is messy. This is very messy and

14:08

that's all I'm going to say right now.

14:10

I'm that even talking about the fluids exchange

14:12

with you if you know what I mean.

14:14

Everyone knows remained friends. Went ahead sir. Yes.

14:17

Algorithm that he goes on. They had me

14:19

sign a contract saying that I was just

14:21

a donor, had no rights as a father,

14:23

and would never contact them after my work

14:25

was done. Ah, your work. That's funny. Yeah,

14:28

hard labor that if you know what I

14:30

mean. It's

14:33

a given. I signed it but never got

14:35

a copy. So now my were brain is

14:37

going with that contract even real because I

14:39

that's that's hard to do and often often

14:41

not. And for the who drew that up,

14:43

why didn't you request a copy? Does your

14:45

lawyer look at it? I mean, I already

14:47

know the answer to all of these questions

14:49

exactly. This is concerning, yeah, how much as

14:51

if you're going to do some and like

14:53

this, I don't think there's really a way

14:55

to do this. If you're good, do that

14:57

the old fashioned way because without an agreement

14:59

that is actually. The following: Some sort

15:01

of state law here. My understanding is

15:03

that you're legally the parent of any

15:05

child that results in in as well.

15:07

Grab your popcorn my dude, Because here

15:10

comes the kicker move. I thought this

15:12

was all a happy memory until they

15:14

broke up and the mother came calling

15:16

for child support in extortionate quantities. Yeah,

15:18

there ya. Seems like not everybody was

15:20

on board with that agreements when it's

15:22

inconvenient for them. If this comes to

15:24

light, my wife may explode in a

15:26

fashion that would put Mount St. Helens

15:28

the same and would. Be equally devastating.

15:30

What do I do here? Signed a distress

15:33

donor wondering what he owes here. Who? Boy

15:35

this is a real doozy man. I can

15:37

hear the stress and anxiety in your letter.

15:40

Not only did you cheat on your wife,

15:42

you cheated on her with two other women

15:44

for a long period of time. I mean

15:46

an extended period of time and had had

15:49

a baby with them or with one of

15:51

them anyway. Gave I am just trying to

15:53

imagine the custody agreement in a situation like

15:56

this. What a mess. Total mess. And for.

15:58

Flaws wonder why? finds out? Yeah,

16:00

she's gonna be deeply hurt and disturbed

16:02

especially given her very conservative religious values

16:05

So I'm gonna keep it real with

16:07

you man I do not know what

16:09

you are supposed to do here You

16:11

freely chose to engage with these women

16:13

you signed up to effectively be their

16:16

sperm donor with you know Dubious legal

16:18

protection and now you're facing the

16:20

consequences Obviously your options are keep it

16:22

a secret and just pray your wife

16:24

never finds out But look that

16:26

that's kicking the can down the road living

16:28

with this secret Carrying this guilt and

16:30

anxiety for a long time maybe forever

16:33

Which is a huge risk because secrets like this have

16:35

a way of coming to light eventually Which is just

16:37

gonna make the whole revelation worse Although

16:39

I suppose there's a world where she just

16:42

never finds out but that doesn't make it

16:44

okay No, and it's gonna do a real

16:46

number on you psychologically I would imagine option

16:48

two is you tell your wife the truth

16:50

you wipe the slate clean you go from

16:53

there. It's devastating It's stressful It's scary But

16:55

it's not a secret eating away at you

16:57

anymore and then you can each decide what

16:59

you want to do about your marriage with All

17:01

of the information on the table personally I of

17:04

course I think option two is the way to

17:06

go It's the right thing to do at this

17:08

point given the circumstances if you want to live

17:10

honestly if you want to live respectfully Which you

17:12

know I guess that's a question you have to

17:15

ask yourself Maybe you don't but if you do

17:17

this is the only responsible way forward and yeah

17:19

It's gonna be horrible your wife doesn't even approve

17:21

of watching porn right she comes from a conservative

17:24

religious background She's gonna be shocked. She's probably gonna

17:26

feel dumb and betrayed especially after the whole sugar

17:28

baby incident getting divorced getting back together

17:31

You put your wife in a terrible position

17:33

here, and my heart really goes out to

17:35

her I obviously have no idea what she'll

17:37

ultimately want to do with this information But

17:40

I just don't see what good could come

17:42

from continuing to hide this it's not like

17:45

Man cuz Gabriel the timeline right he did this

17:47

while he was married So it's not like this

17:49

is before he was in a relationship, and there's

17:51

any sort of reasonable explanation Oh, yeah, it's just

17:53

cheating 2.0 that he didn't get caught for and

17:55

she's gonna be like what else have you done?

17:58

So I don't know Dave. I assume you concur but

18:00

what say you? Ah, what say I? Yes,

18:03

I concur for sure. He's made his

18:05

bed and now he's got to wipe

18:08

the fluids off the sheets. I'm sorry, that really went off

18:10

the rails. But let's put that

18:13

question on ice for just a moment and talk

18:15

about the bigger issue here. The bigger issue here

18:17

to me is that our friend

18:19

here is by his own admission a sex addict.

18:21

He has a history of infidelity. He has a

18:23

history of lying. And with this

18:25

whole relationship with this lesbian couple, he's

18:27

exercised rather poor judgment and has been

18:30

frankly reckless. I mean, look,

18:32

we don't know the details. We don't know

18:34

what his relationship with that couple was like,

18:36

how well he knew them, how he felt

18:38

about them, what agreement, legal or otherwise they

18:40

had. We don't know how much

18:43

he was willing to play in that reckless territory. We

18:45

don't know why he wanted to give them a child,

18:48

what process he went through to make that

18:50

decision. If there was a process, it doesn't

18:52

seem like there was a process. I mean,

18:54

right. Why did he feel he was the

18:56

right person to father their child in that

18:58

way? But even the fact that he didn't

19:00

let us in on the details there, that's

19:02

also kind of meaningful, right? Yeah, interesting. Good

19:04

point. This kind of makes me wonder

19:07

whether he wasn't really thinking at all, whether this

19:09

is his, it seems like his addiction really is

19:11

in the driver's seat on this stuff. Or he's

19:13

just kind of a screw it, Yolo kind of

19:15

guy. But either way, I'm not hearing a ton

19:17

of nuance or introspection in this letter. I'm hearing

19:19

a lot of this is how I am. This

19:22

is how my wife is. This is what I

19:24

did. You know, shit has hit the fan. Now

19:26

what do I do? When the

19:28

more important questions to me are how

19:30

did I end up in this situation? What

19:33

does this crisis say about my personality and

19:35

my patterns, my choices? How do I want

19:37

to live my life? How do I want

19:39

to treat people, especially my wife? I'm sorry

19:41

to be so blunt here, my man, because

19:43

I know you're going through it, but my

19:45

God, what a mess you've made for yourself,

19:47

for your wife, for this couple, potentially for

19:49

this child. That's the part that upsets me

19:51

the most. What all of this means for

19:53

this child who had no say in this

19:55

matter at all. And look, people are conceived

19:57

as firm donors all the time. That's not

20:00

wrong. or dysfunctional obviously, but how

20:02

do you tell a kid their birth story

20:04

here? Daddy slept with mommies and I got

20:06

knocked up, but we don't talk to him

20:08

and the other mommy is not my spouse,

20:10

wife, girlfriend anymore. So like it's just a

20:12

mess. So there's another secret and more lying

20:14

and that's part of the problem. You're asking

20:16

us what to do about this child support

20:18

thing and how to manage this huge secret,

20:20

but from where I'm sitting, those are kind

20:22

of the least of your problems. Yeah, or

20:24

the tip of the iceberg in any case.

20:26

The other big question I have is how

20:29

does this marriage operate? I know he

20:31

said that it's a wonderful relationship except for the

20:33

sex piece, that he's still very much in love

20:35

with her. Okay, I mean look,

20:37

I'll take his word for it there, but

20:39

I have my doubts about that. Yeah, I

20:41

don't know. I do too. I'm not entirely

20:43

sure how our relationship can be great if

20:45

one party is cheating or even just wants

20:47

to cheat and is like white knuckling it

20:49

through their marriage. Yeah, I mean possibly

20:53

literally. Yeah. Not sure what this guy's

20:55

search history is like. Right. It's

20:57

probably about as messy as the custody agreement I'd

21:00

imagine. But like

21:02

really, how is the relationship great if one person

21:04

is sitting on an earth-shattering secret? That's another example

21:06

of that over simplification you mentioned a moment ago

21:08

when he says our relationship is great except for

21:10

the fact that I'm a sex addict and my

21:13

wife has zero interest in sex. That kind of

21:15

echoes the whole, this is the way I am,

21:17

this is the way my wife is, and we

21:19

divorce, but then we got back together. Oh well,

21:21

but hey, what do I do about secretly impregnating

21:24

this other woman who wants child support now? So

21:26

I can see how a person who views his

21:28

life that way could get himself into some real

21:30

pickles. Some real pickles involve in his pickles.

21:32

If you know what I mean. Again, we

21:34

all know what you mean. Yeah, good. Sometimes

21:36

I worry I'm too subtle Gabriel, that's the

21:39

thing. No need to worry about that, but

21:41

yes, that's exactly right. What I'm trying to

21:43

understand is how did these two people get

21:45

together? There's got to be so much happening

21:47

in this dynamic. And also, dude, like why

21:49

did they get back together? I don't know.

21:51

What is keeping them together? It's kind of

21:53

a mystery. I mean I have, again, I

21:55

have my theories here, but it just doesn't

21:58

make sense to me. I mean, look. Look,

22:00

he chose a spouse twice who is

22:02

not compatible with him on one major

22:04

dimension, and he fought for that relationship.

22:06

And now he's working very hard not

22:08

to cheat on her again. Which, okay,

22:10

by the way, I do commend him

22:12

for, right? Like credit where credit is

22:14

due for that. Sure, he's trying to

22:16

behave differently, I appreciate that. But he's

22:18

not going, why do I have this

22:20

urge to cheat in the first place?

22:22

Is this even the right relationship for

22:24

me, ultimately? Yeah, are the terms of

22:26

this relationship the right ones for me?

22:28

It's just fascinating. Why is he

22:30

so in love with somebody who cannot

22:32

meet this very important, and yes, problematic

22:34

in some cases, need of his? And

22:36

to be fair, why is he so

22:38

in love with somebody whose needs he

22:40

can't seem to meet either? Namely, for

22:43

honesty, for commitment, for basic respect. He

22:45

says he wishes his wife would be

22:47

okay with polyamory because he, what does

22:49

he say? He loves how it feels

22:51

to have a deep romantic relationship and

22:53

to be sexually desired. He hasn't found

22:55

those two important experiences in the same

22:57

person. That's kind of how a romantic

22:59

relationship should function, I would

23:01

argue. Yeah, so is it possible that

23:03

he has chosen somebody who can't give

23:05

him those two experiences? Or, and this

23:08

is what I think he really needs

23:10

to consider, is it hard for him

23:12

to have those two experiences with the

23:14

same person? Gabe, my mind

23:16

is going to our interview with Ken Adams, the

23:18

enmeshment expert. That was episode 942, by the way.

23:21

And one of the things he talks about is that men, well,

23:24

people in general, but especially men, who

23:26

had overly enmeshed relationships with

23:29

their mothers, they can sometimes

23:31

find it difficult to enjoy both sex

23:33

and emotional intimacy with the same partner.

23:36

Interesting. If I recall correctly, at least in

23:38

part, it's because it often activates these old

23:40

wounds and patterns that were created in childhood,

23:42

where a child is in an overly intimate

23:44

relationship with a needy or demanding parent. And

23:46

didn't Dr. Adams kind of say that a

23:48

lot of these men end up cheating on

23:50

their partners? He did, yeah. Because they can't

23:52

find what they need in one person? Or

23:55

end up struggling with sex addiction, interestingly, a

23:57

lot of the time. Right, because that impulse

23:59

has to go. go somewhere, right? But for

24:01

some people, it can't be fulfilled in

24:03

the same relationship where the emotional intimacy

24:05

is taking place for various reasons.

24:07

Probably because it seems like you're sleeping with your mom,

24:10

which is not, you know. Right. But didn't he also

24:12

talk about how cheating... I can't remember

24:14

if I'm attributing this to him or if this

24:16

is something I'm bringing to what he wrote about,

24:18

but didn't he say that also cheating can be

24:20

an act of, like, protest, kind of? Like, almost

24:23

like an assertion of autonomy, right? Like, I'm still

24:25

in charge. I still have my own desires, my

24:27

own agency. I can go off and have these

24:29

experiences with other people who are not

24:31

you. You, my partner, who recreate

24:34

this difficult, painful dynamic I had with my

24:36

parents. Yeah. It sounds familiar. I'm sure there's

24:38

a lot more to it than that, and

24:40

it's super complex. And obviously, every individual is

24:42

different. Now I secretly wonder, was this guy's

24:44

mom also really conservative? Dude, I'm dying to

24:46

know who his parents were. I don't want

24:48

to speculate, but it's just that has to

24:50

be playing a huge role here. I would

24:52

think so. Okay. So, again, I have no

24:54

idea if that applies to our friend here.

24:56

We don't know his personal history. But to

24:59

your point, Gabe, he has some personal

25:01

history, and it's got to be informing all this.

25:03

His marriage, the infidelity, the sex addiction, this affair

25:05

with the lesbian couple, the child support thing, his

25:07

impulse to lie about all of it. Yes.

25:10

And especially that impulse to have a secret

25:12

life, because I suspect that that's not just

25:14

a pragmatic thing. Like, oh, I have to

25:16

keep this a secret in order to enjoy

25:18

it. I think having a secret life, that

25:20

often serves some deeper purpose. For sure. That's

25:23

the stuff he needs to be curious about

25:25

right now. The paternity child support thing, that's

25:27

obviously a real issue. And the best advice

25:29

I can offer there is to contact a reproductive

25:31

law and or family attorney immediately and tell them

25:33

your story. I'm sure they're going to ask to

25:36

see that agreement. I hope one of those gals

25:38

can produce it. Obviously, the one who's suing you

25:40

for child support is probably going to go, there

25:42

wasn't one. Go for the other one that is

25:44

probably angry at her former partner and say, hey,

25:46

where's that document? Or at least she'll say, I

25:48

remember you signed it and we agreed to it,

25:50

but I don't know where it is. They're

25:53

going to tell you, the attorney will tell you

25:55

what obligations you have to this child, if any,

25:57

and they can help you negotiate a fair child

25:59

support if it comes to that,

26:01

that's your move there. But in the bigger picture,

26:03

man, you need to get to the root of

26:05

this infidelity and sex thing. I'm not shaming you

26:08

for it. I appreciate that you shared so much

26:10

with us, but if you wanna grow, if you

26:12

wanna have well-functioning relationships, if you wanna avoid this

26:14

kind of drama in the future, you have gotta

26:16

start digging into your patterns, your impulses in your

26:18

past. So you know what I'm

26:20

about to say. Time to go to therapy,

26:23

find somebody good, maybe somebody who specializes in

26:25

sex addiction, definitely somebody who's interested in exploring

26:27

childhood and early experiences, because that's where most

26:29

of this stuff starts. And if any

26:31

of the Ken Adams stuff resonated with you, or

26:33

you just wanna learn more about how enmeshment might

26:35

play a role in all this, I would read

26:37

his books, I'd consider hitting him up and booking

26:39

a consultation, maybe even check out one of his

26:42

workshops, I hear they can be profound, and I

26:44

hope all of this leads you to the answers

26:46

that you're looking for. Look, thanks

26:48

so much for letting us be unusually direct

26:50

with you. I know that some of this

26:52

might be hard to hear. I

26:54

know we say this with love and a genuine hope

26:56

that you can grow from all this, because you deserve

26:58

that, man, and your wife does too. So good luck.

27:01

You know who else wants to be in a

27:03

reckless threesome? Us, you, and the amazing sponsors just

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Dell Technologies has just dropped the Cyber Security Tapes,

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29:45

Feedback Friday. Okay,

29:48

what's next? Hi, Jordan and

29:50

Gabe. A close friend of mine has

29:52

a successful career, owns properties, and has

29:55

been open about his long battle with

29:57

clinical depression. After his divorce four

29:59

years ago. he quickly started a new

30:01

relationship and had two children. Despite not

30:04

being married, they are in a de

30:06

facto partnership recognized in our country. But

30:09

two weeks ago while I was visiting, he

30:11

was in such a bad place that

30:13

he canceled our meeting at the last minute.

30:15

Turns out, his partner took their children

30:17

and left without warning. This led

30:19

him into a spiral of distress and heavy

30:22

drinking. The next day, in

30:24

a panic, he incessantly texted her

30:26

which culminated in her filing a

30:28

police report against him, citing a

30:31

previous physical altercation which, he insists,

30:33

was not aggressive but defensive. It

30:36

doesn't help that he has problems with

30:38

alcohol and marijuana which my friend believes

30:40

his partner would use against him if

30:42

he ever decided to escalate matters legally.

30:45

He's now facing a criminal charge,

30:47

is required to follow a strict

30:49

mental health plan, and is coping

30:51

with a financial blow after his

30:53

partner drained their joint bank account.

30:55

His suicidal ideation has intensified, he

30:58

has little will to engage in

31:00

work, and he feels completely disconnected

31:02

from his children and hopeless about

31:04

reuniting his family. He's concerned about

31:06

his job and income now which he

31:08

needs to fight the charges against him

31:10

and to regain access to his family

31:13

and his assets. While he can be

31:15

challenging during depressive episodes, he's a fundamentally

31:17

kind and empathetic person, never truly threatening,

31:19

and I believe his partner knows this.

31:21

I've offered my friend a place to

31:24

stay for a change of scenery but

31:26

I realized that might not be sufficient.

31:28

He didn't say no though which is

31:30

encouraging. What are the do's and

31:32

don'ts in such a delicate situation? How

31:35

can I ensure that my support is

31:37

both effective and sensitive to his current

31:39

state? Signed, looking for some guidelines while

31:41

I watch my boy struggle from the sidelines.. Yeah,

31:43

this is a really good question. I'm sorry that

31:45

your friend is going through it, it's very touching

31:47

that you're so concerned about him. We Should all

31:50

have friends as supportive as you, so he's a

31:52

lucky dude in that way.. So The first thing

31:54

you need to remember is that your friend's life

31:56

is your friend's life and your life is your

31:58

life. I Know that's a- Sounds really sort

32:00

of basic, but love, Your friend struggles

32:03

with depression, with addiction and would sounds

32:05

like occasionally impulsive, an unstable behavior even

32:07

if he has some good reasons for

32:09

it, or if it's not as bad

32:11

as his partners make it out Sometimes

32:13

fine, but that's his stuff to work

32:15

on or not. One of the most

32:17

important things in life is to be

32:19

available to somebody without becoming responsible for

32:21

somebody to support them without taking their

32:24

stuff on as your own. And I'm

32:26

sorry to rehash it. this old Feedback

32:28

Friday test not, but that is. An

32:30

essential boundary. It is the central boundary. You

32:32

cannot be really helpful to your friend unless

32:34

you honor it this thing with his partner.

32:36

It's interesting. it's obviously created a world of

32:38

stress for him, but also see helped create

32:40

the situation right. Whether it's fair on fair

32:42

weather is dangerous, are harmless. He has behaved

32:44

in a way that has led to these

32:46

consequences. One of those consequences is that he

32:48

needs to follow a strict mental health plan.

32:50

Which look given what you said about the

32:53

guy, that sounds like a great idea. Sounds

32:55

like you need that. We can debate whether

32:57

he deserves what's happening to him or not.

32:59

Maybe he does. Maybe. He doesn't Maybe he

33:01

doesn't deserve it in a procedural sense, but it's

33:03

exactly what he needs. You know, in a cosmic

33:05

since then. But based on what you've shared, your

33:07

boy needs to address this stuff. if he's gonna

33:10

get healthy, if he's gonna be a good father,

33:12

if he's gonna have good relationships. So I do

33:14

wonder whether the situation with his partner a kind

33:16

of and I know you'll have a when I

33:18

say this had to happen in some sense, to

33:21

bring to the surface some uncomfortable truths and to

33:23

create the pressure that he needs to finally get

33:25

healthier. So the best thing you can do is

33:27

allow your friend to go through this period of

33:30

suffering. While encouraging him to seek the

33:32

help that he needs and the help

33:34

he needs in my opinion, is, well,

33:36

first of all, therapy for sure. If

33:38

he's been struggling with clinical depression and

33:40

addiction for years, he needs to be

33:42

talking to somebody at he's having suicidal

33:44

ideation. That is very concerning. At the

33:46

very least, it's debilitating and it's something

33:48

he absolutely should be addressing with a

33:50

professional as of yesterday. Also, if you

33:52

need some additional support to get through

33:54

this period, he might want to schedule

33:56

a consult with a psychiatrist. see of

33:58

medication might be part of his. And look,

34:01

this doesn't need to be forever. If going on meds

34:03

for six months, a year, two years, if that allows

34:05

him to keep showing up at work, if it quiets

34:07

the voice inside telling him to hurt himself, if

34:09

it keeps his addictions at bay, if it stops

34:11

him from dipping below a certain level, I think

34:13

that could be a game changer. But that's for

34:15

him and his doctor to talk about. Now,

34:17

the financial piece of this is obviously big. Your

34:20

friend is struggling to engage with his work, which

34:22

he needs to be able to do to get

34:24

better and keep his life together. So you could

34:26

also recommend that he get a career coach to

34:28

help him stay on track at work. But honestly,

34:30

I also think that's something a good therapist could

34:32

help him with. And then, of course,

34:34

I think your friend needs to be taking care of

34:36

himself in all the other important ways. He's gotta be

34:38

moving his body. He's gotta be seeing friends. He's gotta

34:41

get outside. He's gotta talk to people. Not

34:43

sit there drinking and smoking a bunch, all

34:45

that, which is something you could encourage him

34:47

to do if slash when he comes to

34:49

stay with you, like you said. But the

34:51

main thing I want you to remember is

34:53

that your role in this guy's life is

34:55

to be a champion, a source of love

34:57

and support, not to solve all this guy's

34:59

problems. You cannot live someone else's life for

35:02

them. And when you're a parent, you'll find

35:04

that out real fast. You cannot save someone

35:06

who doesn't wanna be saved. You cannot make

35:08

someone change who isn't ready to change. And

35:10

so that, I would add, like we talked

35:12

about in our newsletter recently, you cannot, and

35:14

you really should not spare people their fair

35:16

share of appropriate suffering. Look, in a case

35:18

like this, here's a guy who needs to

35:20

confront some very important stuff. And he's participated

35:22

in a dynamic with his family that has

35:24

brought those things to a head. So when

35:26

he comes to stay with you, or when

35:28

you talk on the phone, I would maybe

35:30

tell him, you know, you gotta work on

35:33

this stuff, bud, or it's gonna make the

35:35

rest of your life very, very difficult. And

35:37

I'm here to support you however I can,

35:39

but it's time for you to accept what's

35:41

happening and put in the work. That's

35:43

a gift, so don't be afraid to give it

35:45

to him. And I hope your friend can take

35:47

that in. I hope he uses this crisis to

35:49

heal and grow, wishing him and you all the

35:51

best. And man, that is a tough one, Gabe,

35:54

because I feel for the guy, right, his wife

35:56

took the kids, or partner took the kids. But

35:58

I'm almost like, I kind of understand. why

36:00

somebody might do that. If you're married to an

36:02

alcoholic who maybe is abusive sometimes or out of

36:04

control and is depressed, it's like, do you want

36:06

your kids around that? It's a tough one. He's

36:08

got to deserve what he wants, which is to

36:10

get his family back. You can reach

36:13

us Friday at jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your

36:15

emails concise. Use descriptive subject lines. That

36:17

makes our job a lot easier. If

36:19

your professional fate is in the hands

36:21

of a conspiracy theorist, your mother keeps

36:23

going back to her psychopathic abuser or

36:25

you're trying to leave a narcissistic, addicted,

36:27

manipulative spouse, but you're trapped. Whatever's got

36:29

you staying up at night lately, hit

36:31

us up Friday at jordanharbinger.com. We're here

36:33

to help and we keep every email

36:35

anonymous. Okay, next up. Hey, guys. I'm

36:37

in my late 20s and I'm a

36:39

year and a half into being a

36:41

community social worker. I don't have a

36:44

master's in social work, which is typically

36:46

industry standard for management, yet I landed

36:48

a management role right after my bachelor's.

36:50

My boss told me that my out

36:52

of the box thinking and detailed research

36:55

landed me the job. I'm also

36:57

pretty good at networking, in part because of your

36:59

course. Maybe too good at it. I've

37:01

basically created an alter ego to get

37:04

in the mindset as I'm a natural

37:06

introvert. I also have ADHD and love

37:08

to go down rabbit holes. I memorize

37:10

specific details about people and work them

37:13

into conversations to connect with people in

37:15

a memorable way. Because I've moved frequently

37:17

and done a lot of volunteer work,

37:19

my network is rather large and I'm

37:21

fairly well known in my community. I've

37:24

been invited to sit on local and

37:26

state boards and testified at a Senate

37:28

Health and Wellness Committee. I've

37:30

helped start community initiatives and attended

37:32

many charity events and partnerships with

37:34

bigwigs. Upper management often praises me,

37:36

asks me to assist other departments

37:38

and programs, and lets me take

37:40

any trainings I choose. I've had

37:43

over 100 hours of additional trainings.

37:45

I'm on eight different committees with

37:47

my organization. I even lead

37:49

the book club, where we read books recommended

37:51

by you on the show. I'm asked to

37:53

help directors as a mere coordinator and

37:55

I've secured over a hundred thousand dollars

37:58

in grant funding. killing

38:00

it. This is extremely impressive. The

38:04

problem is that I often find myself

38:06

with imposter syndrome. For example, I was

38:08

recently invited to sit on my state's

38:11

court-appointed Special Advocate Association Board, which is

38:13

full of people with masters and decades

38:15

of experience. When I do things that

38:17

are a rung or two above me,

38:19

I just tell myself that'll be me

38:21

in a few years. But I question

38:23

whether I truly belong in these positions

38:26

or I just know how to play the game too

38:29

well. I switch to my confident, knowledgeable persona

38:31

and fit right in. But at the

38:33

end of the day, I'm drained and

38:35

left wondering why I put myself in

38:38

positions that feel more suitable for bigger

38:40

fish. I mean, this is textbook imposter

38:42

syndrome and is very normal, but continue.

38:44

My husband and I are also the

38:47

first people in our families to have

38:49

bachelor's degrees. We're passionate about leveling up,

38:51

but all of the women in both

38:54

families are stay-at-home moms or have jobs

38:56

that aren't careers. So I

38:58

haven't had any personal role models. Also,

39:00

I was a runaway

39:02

teen at 17. I experienced

39:05

homelessness, I struggled with addiction,

39:07

anger, and abusive relationships. The

39:09

people who know me now don't know that version of

39:11

me. We recently moved near where I

39:13

spent my teens though and it has stirred up

39:15

more of the imposter syndrome. Since it's

39:18

a small part of the Midwest, I'm also

39:20

scared that my new higher level relationships will

39:22

recognize me from my past as my career

39:24

develops. Should I keep leaning into these opportunities

39:27

or should I scale back my networking and

39:29

only focus on people at my level? Should

39:31

I go back to school for a master's

39:33

in social work to feel more self-assured? How

39:36

do I finally kick this imposterism? Signed,

39:38

looking for the right traits and still

39:40

outrunning my fate when I am punching

39:43

way above my weight. Wow,

39:45

what a story. I'm a little gobsmacked over

39:47

here to go from being a runaway at

39:49

17 years old, being homeless, struggling with addiction,

39:51

experiencing abuse, to go from all that to

39:54

being a social worker, managing people and testifying

39:56

in front of senators and building relationships with

39:58

all these impressive people. in your

40:00

late 20s, no less. Incredible. Can we just

40:02

take a moment to appreciate what a huge accomplishment

40:04

this is? This reminds me of Adam Grant,

40:06

where it's not the outcome, it's how far

40:08

you've come to get there. And

40:11

if you haven't heard that episode, go back and listen to

40:13

the most recent Adam Grant episode. So you are an inspiration,

40:15

my friend. Way to make me feel like a total flacker

40:17

over here. I've never spoken to Congress.

40:19

All of this speaks to your resourcefulness, your hard

40:21

work, your curiosity, and maybe a sprinkle of that

40:23

ADHD that you mentioned, which by the way, way

40:26

to make that work for you. There's clearly a

40:28

lot going on in this letter, Gabe, but

40:30

it's obvious to me, this is a remarkable

40:32

person. So I'm so damn proud of her.

40:35

This is amazing. So it's interesting. I'm getting

40:37

the sense that this fire you have, this

40:39

ambition, it's beautiful, right? And it's also probably

40:41

a way to transcend your roots. And sometimes,

40:43

maybe it's also a way to compensate for

40:45

them. My experience is that

40:47

ambitious people, they're usually driven by certain

40:49

needs, right? To be useful, to be

40:52

effective, to be appreciated, to be respected,

40:54

to be needed. And that's

40:56

not inherently bad. All human beings do this

40:58

to some degree. We should all strive

41:01

to be useful. But I do think that it's

41:03

important to acknowledge that ambition often has a shadow

41:05

side. In your

41:07

case, your ambition might be informed

41:09

by a need, a very adaptive and impressive

41:11

need to create a very different life from

41:14

the one you had when you were young.

41:16

And hey, it's working. It's working brilliantly. But

41:18

it might also be contributing to this sense

41:20

of fraudulence. The other thing that's

41:22

also playing a role is that you and your

41:25

husband, who also, by the way, sounds like a

41:27

remarkable guy, you haven't had a lot of models

41:29

for your kind of success, maybe any at all

41:31

from the sound of it. You don't have a

41:34

clear template for your life here. And that can

41:36

make things feel even scarier. You're inventing the way.

41:38

You are creating the template. So

41:41

that's gotta be kind of anxiety provoking, not

41:43

just because you don't know how your career

41:45

should look, but also because you might not

41:48

always know whether you're doing something wrong, so

41:50

to speak, whether you have what it takes

41:52

to sustain the success, whether you deserve it,

41:54

that's always gonna linger. Whereas people with more

41:57

obvious models, they often inherit a certain confidence

41:59

or security. It's in the water, so

42:01

to speak. Although I gotta say, another thing

42:03

I've learned over the years is that so

42:05

many confident and seemingly privileged people are also

42:07

deep down just as lost and terrified as

42:09

everybody else, oftentimes even more so. So

42:12

imposter syndrome doesn't just hit people from humble

42:14

backgrounds or whatever. Even people with good models,

42:16

more secure childhoods, they have to chart their

42:18

own path too, at least if they hope

42:21

to individuate and build their own identities, which

42:23

not everybody manages to do. So what I

42:25

want you to remember is that being confused,

42:27

being afraid, charting your own path, it's really

42:29

hard sometimes, especially if you don't have a

42:32

ton of role models, but it's a gift.

42:34

It's the price you pay for pushing yourself

42:36

beyond your abilities, for charting a path that

42:38

is authentically yours. And I know this is

42:41

way easier said than done, and it's way

42:43

easier for me to say it than for you

42:45

to do it, but as much as you can,

42:47

try to enjoy that gift. This fraudulence you feel,

42:49

it doesn't have to be all bad, it could

42:51

be a symptom of you playing, growing, punching above

42:54

your weight, and not always knowing what you're doing,

42:56

which is appropriate and sometimes even exciting. It's kind

42:58

of cool in that light if you think about

43:00

it. But there's one last thing

43:02

we got to touch on here, which

43:04

is you have experienced your fair share

43:06

of very real trauma in your life,

43:08

my friend. Homelessness, addiction, abuse,

43:11

these are profound experiences, tragic experiences,

43:13

and I'm so sorry, first of

43:15

all, that you went through them.

43:17

I'm sure you already know how

43:19

meaningful these experiences are, but I

43:21

just want to appreciate that part

43:23

of what you're feeling is probably

43:25

the legacy of this trauma. I'm

43:27

sure that it has shaped your

43:29

sense of self, your belonging in

43:31

the world, your sense of worthiness, and I do

43:34

wonder if that's a big part of the imposterism.

43:36

Right. Not just a gap between

43:39

her talent and her responsibilities, but

43:41

maybe an old sense of unease

43:43

that might make it hard to

43:45

feel deserving of this objectively incredible

43:48

life that she's built. Exactly.

43:51

That might make it hard to feel grounded in her

43:53

talent, and then it's hard to trust that other people

43:55

are going to meet her with love, appreciation, acceptance, even

43:57

if she's not perfect. Well, like she said,

43:59

she's literally really afraid of being found out, which

44:01

is a classic symptom of imposter syndrome, right?

44:03

But I think that feeling, it's got to

44:05

be especially acute when you have a painful

44:08

past, because the other big theme in your

44:10

letter is shame, right? There's some shame around

44:12

your accomplishments, even though you have a ton

44:15

of them. Like, is it enough? Am I

44:17

enough? I also hear some shame about your

44:19

background, especially since you moved back, which is

44:21

so interesting, by the way, just the fact

44:23

that being physically closer to where you grew

44:26

up can make these fears more intense. I

44:28

don't know what it is about that physical

44:30

proximity, but it is powerful. I mean,

44:32

you're clearly in touch with your roots

44:34

more than ever, and that's making you anxious

44:36

about being found out, almost to the

44:38

point of like mild paranoia, like are people

44:41

going to suddenly realize that I'm this

44:43

person and I came from these experiences? So

44:45

this is intense stuff. But then the

44:47

more you try to outrun that past, the

44:49

more the shame seems to compound. By

44:51

the way, I also hear some shame in

44:54

the mere fact that you're struggling with

44:56

this imposterism, even as you find objective success

44:58

and great feedback in your career. What's

45:00

interesting to me, to Jordan's point a moment ago, is the

45:03

way that you've used that shame to fuel

45:05

your ambition, the way that you

45:08

sometimes maybe deny it or stuff it

45:10

down by working really hard to invent

45:12

a new story for yourself. Like you

45:14

said, in those moments of stress or

45:17

self-doubt, I just tell myself that'll be

45:19

me in a few years. So you're

45:21

channeling this anxiety into your work, into

45:23

your discipline, into your research, your relationship

45:25

building, your charisma. That's actually a highly

45:28

evolved way to cope with these feelings,

45:30

but it might also be a way

45:33

of dealing with a very old terror

45:35

and embarrassment, which I just want

45:37

you to know, we all feel to

45:39

some degree, but people with your particular

45:41

traumas and background, they might feel it

45:43

more acutely. So given all of that,

45:46

how do you finally kick this thing?

45:48

Well, I think it really begins with

45:50

owning your story. Actually, let me rephrase.

45:52

Not just owning your story, I don't

45:54

mean inventing one more story and then

45:56

telling everybody about it. This is

45:58

who I am, this is where I'm heading. I mean

46:00

owning yourself, just as you are. Your

46:03

thoughts, your feelings, your memories, your experiences,

46:05

all of it. Not just

46:07

the pieces that you feel

46:09

are acceptable or attractive or

46:11

impressive. Now look, I understand

46:13

that nobody wants to advertise

46:15

their shame. Nobody wants

46:18

to publicize their fear, right? Well, especially

46:20

at work, right? You're not supposed to

46:22

be vulnerable at work supposedly. That's the

46:24

whole problem. Totally. I

46:26

don't think you can even integrate

46:28

these two halves of yourself. The

46:30

woman who came from this difficult

46:32

background and doesn't always know what

46:35

she's doing, and the

46:37

woman who's extremely talented and performing at

46:39

a remarkably high level. What

46:41

I would love for you to play with is the idea

46:43

that you don't need to quarantine these parts

46:45

of your identity in order to succeed. In

46:48

fact, my experience is that the opposite is

46:50

usually true, especially in your line of work.

46:53

You're dealing with human beings. You're dealing with

46:55

people in need. You're working on systems

46:57

that are created to help them. So I'm not saying

46:59

you need to go around telling every person you meet,

47:01

you know, this is what I've been through and I

47:03

feel like a fraud all the time. Obviously

47:06

there's a time and place for these conversations,

47:08

but acknowledging where you've come from and what

47:10

you've been through and where you struggle in

47:12

the right settings, I think that could be very

47:14

powerful for you for sure, and also for

47:16

anyone who gets to know you better. And

47:18

if you do that in the right spirit,

47:20

if you do it in order to connect

47:22

with people or to educate or

47:24

to ask for help or just, you know, to

47:27

open up and heal a little bit, then I

47:29

promise you, you are going to find great results.

47:32

Totally agree, Gabe. But you're right. She needs to

47:34

share her story with the right intention and the

47:36

right people. And I would start with people who

47:38

have the capacity and desire to really know you.

47:40

So your husband, friends, family, mentors, peers,

47:42

a therapist. To Gabe's point, you don't need to

47:44

be a hot mess. You don't need to be

47:46

reckless. We all know those people who trot out

47:49

their tale of woe to elicit sympathy or get

47:51

attention. I know you don't want to be that

47:53

person. Or because they're working something out in a

47:55

way that's just not appropriate. That's not you. But

47:58

as you play with this, you'll know when you can... tell

48:00

somebody where your tender spots are. We talk

48:02

about this a lot, but it's so important,

48:04

I don't mind repeating it. The antidote to

48:06

shame isn't hiding, it's revealing. So fun, right?

48:08

I know, it sucks, but there's no way

48:10

around it. And actually, my experience is that

48:12

it gets to be kind of fun once

48:14

you realize what a damn relief it is.

48:17

So no, I definitely would not scale back

48:19

your networking and only focus on people at

48:21

your level. Keep doing what you're doing, it's

48:23

awesome. But build relationships with people at all

48:25

levels, including your peers, and sure, you can

48:27

go back to school, you can get your

48:29

MSW when the time is right, and if

48:31

the degree speaks to you and it would

48:33

help your career, I'm all for it. But

48:35

I wouldn't pin your hopes for feeling more

48:37

self-assured on another degree. It's not that accomplishments

48:39

are wrong or useless, they're important, they're part

48:41

of your career. But a master's alone is

48:43

not gonna heal your childhood or make you

48:46

feel more secure in your role. But if

48:48

you pursue it with a right mindset, I

48:50

think it could be fantastic, but again, it's

48:52

secondary. So keep up the amazing work, keep

48:54

leaning into these profound questions. What you're dealing

48:56

with is so universal, so human, and honestly,

48:59

it's a sign you're pushing yourself to grow

49:01

and achieve at a very high level at

49:03

such a young age, which is so awesome.

49:05

Now you just gotta balance that ambition with

49:07

a little more self-acceptance and vulnerability, and that's

49:10

a process that you can start right now.

49:12

That's gonna take you very, very far, trust

49:14

me. And good luck. You know

49:16

what else feels like fraud? The steel of a

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You can find them wherever you get your podcasts. If

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you like this episode of Feedback Friday and

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you find our advice valuable, I invite you

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to do what other smart and considerate listeners

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stuff for you. Thank you for supporting those

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who support the show. Now back to Feedback

51:17

Friday. Okay,

51:19

next up. Hey guys, I know you've talked about

51:21

going to North Korea a bunch. I hear

51:23

that their banking system and money is a mess.

51:27

How do you pay for things in North

51:29

Korea? Was that hard? Signed, curious about income

51:31

in the hermit kingdom. Okay, well, yeah, first

51:34

of all, there's no banks and there's no

51:36

cards you can use because they are cut

51:38

off in terms of sanctions from the international

51:40

banking system. So there's no swift system. There's

51:42

no way they can transfer funds from to

51:45

and from any other countries as far as

51:47

I understand. Maybe you could do something

51:49

with like Russia, but I don't know anybody that's able

51:51

to do that. I've

51:54

never seen a bank in North Korea. When

51:56

I asked about banking, nobody used one. Most

51:59

people don't even have one. have that much cash and

52:01

if they do, it's stashed safely under their mattress or

52:03

whatever. From foreigners, they accept Chinese

52:05

currency, euros and US dollars. And of course,

52:08

they would love it if people they transacted

52:10

with domestically could also use those. But

52:12

foreigners are not allowed to use local

52:15

currency and people domestically, from what I

52:17

understand, are not allowed to use foreign

52:19

currency because the government wants a monopoly

52:22

and to maximize the amount of foreign currency they

52:24

have. Because unlike the US, which can print money

52:26

when it needs to or shuffle things around, North

52:29

Korea can't use its own local currency because

52:31

it is worthless. So they need all the

52:33

foreign currency they can get. So making sure that

52:35

foreigners have to use it and locals can't

52:37

use it is a great way to do that.

52:40

And as far as how you buy things, Gabe,

52:42

do you remember that store in the hotel that's

52:45

super inefficient and totally weird? That weird department store?

52:47

Is that what you're talking about? There's the weird

52:49

department store, but there's a store at the hotel

52:51

that was just bizarre. Oh, yeah, yeah. The convenience

52:54

store where they have all like toothpaste and... Yeah,

52:56

it's the most inconvenient convenience store in the world.

52:58

So you walk in there and everything's in a

53:00

case. And you're like, oh, I

53:02

need toothpaste. And they're like, okay, there's a

53:04

person whose job it is to unlock the

53:07

case to get the toothpaste out. And

53:09

it's not the same person that you say that you want

53:11

toothpaste. That person has to tell another person. That

53:14

person then hands the toothpaste, not to you,

53:16

but to the cashier who then has to

53:18

ring this up. And by ring it up,

53:20

I mean write everything on paper because most

53:22

stuff is manual there. I was about to

53:24

say, do you remember how every interaction required

53:26

like a 10 minute receipt process where they

53:28

would painstakingly write out every item you were

53:30

buying and what the amount of... It was

53:33

absolutely ridiculous. It was like a third grade assignment

53:35

where they make something really complicated to make sure

53:37

you know how to do it. They would do

53:39

that and write several copies of this receipt out

53:41

in pencil, which makes no sense. And you're like,

53:43

give me the... It took 20 minutes later you

53:45

have your toothpaste that's been in that case for

53:47

15 years. And

53:49

it's like fake crest from China, from

53:51

like 90s China. It's just

53:53

bizarre. And I remember being like, why don't

53:56

they just have one person working here who

53:58

does this? communist

54:00

socialist countries, they give people jobs even

54:02

if the job is completely useless. Like

54:04

we need a person here instead of

54:06

a traffic light even though nobody has

54:09

a car. So there's a traffic cop

54:11

standing at an intersection where there hasn't

54:13

been a car in five days and

54:15

they're just standing there because they need to

54:17

give jobs and there's people manning escalators like

54:19

oh we need someone at the top and

54:21

we need somebody at the bottom to make

54:24

sure the escalators running it's just that's the

54:26

most communist thing ever. That's why they're so

54:28

inefficient. There's a credit card there it's not

54:30

really that it's a charge card that you

54:32

have to load it's called a choreo card.

54:34

I got one and nobody uses it. It

54:36

requires electricity. They don't have electricity in most

54:38

places at most times even the places that

54:41

say they accept it often cannot accept it.

54:43

I did buy a full set of money

54:45

from the hotel in pristine condition. That was

54:47

kind of cool. So I have a whole

54:49

set of North Korean won which they sell

54:51

you at their ridiculously inflated exchange rate so

54:53

you just have to look at it like

54:55

you're buying a souvenir because you're buying a

54:57

set of worthless paper with real money. In

54:59

the end there's not really a lot of

55:02

places to spend money like they would love

55:04

more foreign currency and they're always trying to

55:06

juice it out of you but really the

55:08

hotel can accept foreign currency. There's a bookstore

55:10

where you go in and they have to

55:12

turn on the lights because they live there

55:14

and no whatever goes there so they turn on

55:16

the lights and they're like you can tell they

55:18

just woke up or something when you go in

55:20

there. There's a bookstore every single book is written

55:22

by Kim Jong Il, Kim Il Sung, or Kim

55:24

Jong Un. I'm not exaggerating every single one and

55:26

they look like textbooks there's posters in there and

55:28

stuff that you can buy. You don't buy the

55:30

books you buy the posters. There's a brewery which

55:32

is also again I think in the hotel there's

55:34

restaurants but you know you can't just go to

55:36

whichever one you want you have to like make

55:38

an appointment your whole crew has to show up

55:40

there the whole bus has to go there because

55:42

they open the place for you. The locals are

55:44

not patronizing these places because they can't.

55:47

There's also a fun fair Gabe you want

55:49

to talk about the fun fair? Oh the

55:51

fun fair I love the fun fair although

55:53

looking back I really regret going on some

55:55

of those rides because you know yeah I

55:58

don't know what kind of safety standards these

56:00

rides are following and they're not, they're

56:02

aggressive. Do you remember that one ride

56:04

that was like, mildly terrifying? Can you

56:07

recall? Well they were all kind of, so

56:09

it's a modern amusement park instead of rides and you're like,

56:11

I'm not going on this and the guides go, don't worry,

56:13

this stuff's all from Italy. Oh yeah, that's right. And it's

56:15

like, oh okay, but then you go, oh wait, if

56:18

it's in Italy, they probably inspect this stuff like every

56:20

month. Not here. If it's in North Korea, they bought

56:22

it from Italy and they've never looked at it since

56:24

the installation. It was like, there was one that was

56:26

like a TikTok kind of thing, like it would just

56:29

pick and talk and it would spin. Like a pendulum.

56:31

Like a pendulum, oh that was terrifying. But I love

56:33

the fun fare. I feel like that was where we

56:35

got to interact with more locals than any other place,

56:37

right? Yeah, I remember many girls standing

56:39

near me and then when I looked at

56:42

them, they would literally run away scared, which

56:44

is weird. That just shows you the level

56:46

of propaganda that was involved, not like giggly

56:48

run away scared, but actually scared that I'm

56:50

gonna somehow hurt them. Oh really? And

56:53

I remember there were a couple girls that wanted to

56:55

interact with us. Were you next, I can't remember who

56:57

I was next to. I was next to somebody. And

56:59

this old lady who was cleaning up the floor with

57:01

a broom, hit them with the broom when they came

57:04

close to us to get them away from us. I

57:06

don't remember this. Yeah, that lady was there to clean

57:08

cigarette butts off the ground and make sure

57:10

that no locals interacted with us as foreigners.

57:12

I mean, she hit them hard. It wasn't

57:14

like, get away from those Americans. It was

57:16

like whack and they were like, ouch, okay,

57:18

you hit me in the shin with a

57:20

broom, what the hell? But it's interesting, you

57:22

find that with older folks in North Korea

57:24

who have more of an attachment to the

57:26

war and they maybe even remember the war

57:28

potentially or their parents do and they have

57:30

more bias against Westerners, Americans

57:33

specifically. But once you meet

57:35

younger people there, they don't

57:37

care. I found that most of

57:39

them were really cool and open. They're just very shy. But

57:42

it was very fun to interact with them at the fun

57:44

fair. And that's another place where they love to get you

57:46

to spend money. All foreigners get to cut the line, right?

57:48

But then they charge you an exorbitant rate and that's a

57:50

way that they just make more money. You get to cut

57:52

the line but it's also like you pay per ride. So

57:54

of course they want you to cut the line so you

57:56

can go on more rides. It was very

57:58

bizarre. And you see the abandoned fun fair. and

58:00

you're like holy crap, how many people died on

58:02

that thing before they shut it down? I love

58:04

these North Korea questions, I love these travel adventure

58:06

questions, but let's take the next letter. Gabe, you're

58:08

up. So our next letter actually comes in two

58:10

parts, two different emails from a very special listener.

58:13

I gotta say these emails really moved Jordan and

58:15

me quite a bit, so we wanted to share

58:17

them with you. And listen, before I dive in,

58:19

I apologize in advance if I get a little

58:21

bit emotional reading these letters, but you know, you've

58:23

heard two grown ass men cry on the show

58:25

before, so it's nothing new, but I still feel

58:28

self-conscious about it. Okay, so the first letter goes,

58:30

hey Jordan and Gabe, I've been

58:32

battling cancer for some time and

58:34

after some recent CT scans, the

58:36

prognosis is not good. Depending

58:39

on how the tumor responds to a

58:41

new course of treatment, I either continue

58:43

treatment in hopes that the tumor shrinks

58:45

or I'll be moved to stage four

58:47

and given the whole quality of life

58:49

option. Yes, this is really bad news

58:51

and yes, it's a lot to process,

58:53

but the weird part is that over

58:55

the last week, I almost saw this

58:57

coming. Even with no external indicators,

58:59

my body and brain saw that I was

59:01

not responding and that I was on borrowed

59:04

time. Barbara and I sat

59:06

down last Saturday and spoke about this

59:08

exact scenario. Strange that we felt

59:10

compelled to have this conversation when we did, but I

59:12

guess I'm more in tune with my body than I

59:14

ever knew. I wanna thank you

59:16

for all of the excellent content that you've

59:19

created. You have no idea how great

59:21

it is to have your back catalog available, especially

59:23

when I have a five hour chemo session to

59:25

get through or just sitting in

59:27

all these waiting rooms with nothing but time

59:29

to kill. Your episodes helped me get through

59:32

it. So once again, my thanks to

59:34

you. I would include Gabe in that, but God

59:36

knows where he is right now. Signed,

59:39

Pete. Well, Pete, I was sitting

59:41

on the couch in the tiny, tiny house

59:43

we were renting in Brazil, reading

59:45

your email, low key crying while my housemates

59:48

made oatmeal in the background. That's where I

59:50

was, my dude. It's such a nice email.

59:52

Obviously this one got me too. I've been

59:54

corresponding with Pete a little bit here and

59:56

there. So that was the first email, and

59:58

then a couple weeks. to go, Pete sent

1:00:00

us a follow-up. Gabe, you want to read that? Hey

1:00:02

guys, I've decided to give

1:00:05

up on all treatments. Far too

1:00:07

painful and worse than the disease.

1:00:10

We now have in-house hospice. They're here

1:00:12

to keep me comfortable until I finally

1:00:14

pass. I wanted to take this time

1:00:17

to once again thank both of you and your

1:00:19

team for getting me through this. You've brought a

1:00:21

lot of pleasure to my shortened life and

1:00:23

I appreciate every minute of it. I

1:00:26

look forward to meeting you all on

1:00:28

the other side, but please do not

1:00:30

rush. Take care, Pete. Oh

1:00:32

man. Let's see if we can get through this one

1:00:34

without crying into the microphone, shall we? Let's try, man.

1:00:36

I'm like really trying to hold it together over here.

1:00:38

I know. We wanted to

1:00:40

share these letters for a couple of reasons. First,

1:00:43

to celebrate the life of a very cool, deeply

1:00:45

kind show fan, Pete Daniella. We only got to

1:00:47

know Pete recently and honestly, we don't know

1:00:49

a ton about his biography, but it sounds like

1:00:51

he led a very full life. Pete was a

1:00:54

sergeant, I think, in the US Army. Might have

1:00:56

also served in the Marines, not sure how that

1:00:58

worked, based on a story he shared with

1:01:00

us once. He served in Korea. In

1:01:02

one of his emails, he shared a photo

1:01:05

of himself sitting in the back of a

1:01:07

helicopter in Seoul, leaning on his helmet in

1:01:09

what looked like his weapon. In his face,

1:01:11

if I had to describe it, is boyish,

1:01:13

focused, solid, brave, and gentle. I can't even

1:01:16

imagine what he must have been thinking at

1:01:18

the time, what serving in combat at such

1:01:20

a young age brought to his life. But

1:01:22

it seems to have produced a man who

1:01:24

faced his diagnosis, and I'm sure all the

1:01:27

events in his life, with a ton of

1:01:29

courage, a ton of humility, a kind of

1:01:31

noble acceptance that I imagine is making his

1:01:33

transition very peaceful and very meaningful. He mentioned Barbara

1:01:35

in his email. I believe Barbara is his wife,

1:01:37

certainly his partner. Sounds like they have a very

1:01:39

close and loving relationship. I've never spoken with her.

1:01:42

I have no idea if she's listening to this,

1:01:44

but sending you such a big hug, Barbara, and

1:01:46

I hope you're holding up okay. I wish I

1:01:48

knew more about Pete so I could tell you

1:01:50

everything about him. He's been keeping a blog during

1:01:52

his treatment that is very vulnerable and very touching.

1:01:55

We'll link to that in the show notes. It's

1:01:57

actually quite an interesting document. You can feel for

1:01:59

how this guy is a person. approaching his own

1:02:01

mortality, which is inspiring. But the spirit

1:02:03

of his emails really says the most important

1:02:05

things about him. I hope to be half

1:02:08

as courageous and clear-eyed and down to earth

1:02:10

as Pete is, and I'm grateful to you,

1:02:12

Pete, for embodying these virtues so beautifully, for

1:02:14

showing us what an enlightened transition looks like.

1:02:16

But the other reason we wanted to share

1:02:19

Pete's letter was, man, how can

1:02:21

I put this without sounding super emo or

1:02:23

self-important? Look, the fact that Pete

1:02:25

is spending some of his last days with us

1:02:27

is just insanely meaningful. This

1:02:29

is indescribably touching. The time you guys

1:02:31

share with us the role we get

1:02:33

to play in your lives is everything

1:02:35

to us, everything. It's what makes this

1:02:37

show so much more than a career.

1:02:39

So when Pete said that we helped

1:02:41

him get through chemo and doctor's appointments

1:02:43

and all that, it just filled me

1:02:45

with this deep gratitude for him, for

1:02:47

all of you, for this life that

1:02:49

somehow allows me to put something out

1:02:51

into the world that I care about

1:02:53

and that people like Pete care about too.

1:02:56

I literally do not know how to

1:02:58

express how that makes me feel. I

1:03:00

guess I feel honored and moved, and

1:03:02

that's really all I can say. So

1:03:04

as we wrap up here, so much

1:03:06

love to Pete and Barbara. Godspeed, Pete.

1:03:08

I'm sorry about this, all of it,

1:03:10

Pete, mostly because I cannot afford to

1:03:12

lose listeners. The quarterly numbers are bleak.

1:03:14

No, I'm just, I'm playing. Sorry, you

1:03:16

know me, I have to crack a

1:03:18

joke here. I'm gonna end up with

1:03:20

a sincerity hangover tomorrow. But seriously, thank

1:03:22

you for being part of our show

1:03:24

family for your time and your attention

1:03:26

and your words, for teaching me some profound

1:03:29

things in this brief time that we knew

1:03:31

each other. Much love to you, Pete. Much

1:03:33

love to all of you out there. It's

1:03:35

just one life, man. That's all we get.

1:03:37

You gotta make it count. And I'm gonna

1:03:39

take that into my weekend. I hope you

1:03:41

do too, courtesy of our very special friend

1:03:43

and listener, Pete Danella. Hope you all

1:03:45

enjoyed the show. I wanna thank everyone who wrote in

1:03:47

this week and everybody who listened. Thank you so much.

1:03:49

The best things that have happened in my life and

1:03:51

business have come through my network, the circle of people

1:03:53

I know, like, and trust. I'm teaching you how to

1:03:55

do that same thing, build that same thing for yourself

1:03:57

in our six-minute networking course. It is free.

1:04:00

It is not gross, it is not schmoozy, and

1:04:02

you can find it on the Thinkific platform at

1:04:04

sixminutenetworking.com. It takes a few minutes a day. You

1:04:06

gotta dig that well before you get thirsty, folks.

1:04:09

Build relationships before you need them. In fact, relationships,

1:04:11

one of the only things that matter in this

1:04:13

life. You can find all that for free at

1:04:15

sixminutenetworking.com. Also, in case you don't know, there's a

1:04:18

subreddit for our show. If you wanna jump in

1:04:20

discussions with other listeners about specific episodes, you can

1:04:22

find that at the Jordan Harbinger subreddit. If you

1:04:24

don't know what that is, don't worry about it.

1:04:26

You're never gonna use it. Also, if you haven't

1:04:29

signed up yet, We Bit Wiser, our

1:04:31

newsletter, is even weirder. Gabriel and I

1:04:33

are writing it now. It's gonna be

1:04:35

a two-minute read, that's the goal. Something

1:04:38

very practical that's gonna change the way

1:04:40

you make decisions or think about life.

1:04:42

You can check that out at jordanharbinger.com/news.

1:04:45

Show notes at jordanharbinger.com. Advertisers, discounts, ways

1:04:47

to support the show at jordanharbinger.com/deals. I'm

1:04:49

at Jordan Harbinger on both Twitter and

1:04:51

Instagram, or you can connect with me

1:04:54

on LinkedIn. Gabe and his definitely not-Cheeto

1:04:56

feet are on Instagram. Gabriel Mizrahi, or

1:04:58

on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This

1:05:00

show is created in association with Podcast

1:05:02

One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace

1:05:04

Sanderson, Robert Fogerty, and of course, Gabriel

1:05:07

Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own,

1:05:09

and I am a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer.

1:05:11

Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on

1:05:13

the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the

1:05:15

show with those you love. If you found the episode

1:05:17

useful, please share it with somebody else who could use

1:05:19

the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I

1:05:22

hope you apply what you hear on the show so

1:05:24

you can live what you learn, and we'll see you

1:05:26

next time. We've

1:05:29

got a trailer for our interview with Robert

1:05:31

Greene, one of the most acclaimed authors of

1:05:33

our time. Robert's insight into human

1:05:35

nature is second to none, and there's

1:05:37

a reason that his books are banned

1:05:39

in prisons, yet widely read by both

1:05:41

scholars and leaders alike. If

1:05:43

we just sit in our inner tube with our

1:05:46

hands behind our head and crack open a six-second

1:05:48

beer, the river of dark nature takes us towards

1:05:50

that waterfall of the shadow. Yeah,

1:05:53

so when we're children, if we weren't educated,

1:05:55

if we didn't have teachers or parents telling

1:05:57

us to study, we'd be these

1:05:59

monsters. We're all

1:06:02

flawed. I believe

1:06:04

we humans naturally feel envy. It's

1:06:06

the chimpanzee in us. It's

1:06:09

been shown that primates are very attuned

1:06:11

to other animals in

1:06:13

their clan and are constantly comparing

1:06:15

themselves. You're dislike

1:06:17

of that fellow artist or that

1:06:19

other podcaster. 99%

1:06:23

sure that it comes from a place of envy. You

1:06:25

are not a rational being. Rationality

1:06:28

is something you earn. It's

1:06:30

a struggle. It takes effort. It takes

1:06:32

awareness. You have to go through steps.

1:06:34

You have to see your biases. When

1:06:36

you think you're being rational, you're not

1:06:38

being rational at all. You

1:06:40

go around, everything is personal. Oh, why did he

1:06:42

say that? Why is my mom telling me this?

1:06:44

And I'm telling you it's not personal. That's the

1:06:46

liberating fact. People are wrapped

1:06:48

up in their own emotions, their own

1:06:51

traumas. So you need to

1:06:53

be aware that people have their own inner

1:06:55

reality. People are not

1:06:57

nearly as happy and successful as you think

1:06:59

they are. Acknowledging that you

1:07:02

have a dark side, that you have a

1:07:04

shadow, that you're not such a great person

1:07:06

as you think, can actually

1:07:09

be a very liberating feeling. And

1:07:12

there are ways to take that shadow and

1:07:14

that darkness and kind of turn it into something

1:07:16

else. If you want to learn more

1:07:18

about how to read others and even yourself, be

1:07:21

sure to check out episode 117 of

1:07:23

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