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1:15

behind the iconic brands

1:17

we all know and

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love. Hey

1:24

potty fan, welcome to a new

1:26

episode of the Lazy-C-O podcast. Today

1:28

we're joined by Danny Atkins and

1:30

Alex Babbage, the married geo behind

1:32

Kulani Kini's, Australia's most in-demand swimwear

1:35

brand. Back in 2015, they swapped

1:37

corporate careers in psychology and accounting

1:39

for a Hawaiian holiday, only to

1:41

realize Danny swimwear doesn't match the

1:44

beauty around her. That moment sparked

1:46

an idea and with their vacation

1:48

savings they took a leap launching

1:50

Kulani kinis with a focus on

1:53

fit, feel and bold and vibrant

1:55

designs. Fast forward to today and

1:57

they sold over a hundred million

1:59

dollars. in swimwear and have built

2:01

a global brand with a cult

2:03

following. Today we'll dive into their

2:06

journey, the risks they talk, and

2:08

what it takes to turn the

2:10

holiday dream into a thriving business.

2:12

Let's get into it. All right,

2:15

Daniel and Alex, welcome to the

2:17

pot. Thank you for having us

2:19

Jane. Alex, do you want to

2:21

intro us in? Use your best

2:23

radio voice and intro the pod.

2:26

Hello everyone, welcome to the lazy CEO

2:28

with Alex Denny and Jane. Today we're

2:30

going to be talking about all things.

2:32

Klinikini! Klini-kini's. Very nice! I have heard

2:34

your start-up story and I absolutely love

2:36

it. We're Danny and Alex, we're from

2:38

Klini Keeney's. Klini is a swimwear brand.

2:40

We're based in Sydney. We chase the

2:42

sun, we love to story tell. We're

2:45

about kind of creating memories and growing

2:47

like on adventures and we entered this

2:49

world in a little bit of an

2:51

unconventional way. I think we share that

2:53

in, I know that we've got Ernst

2:55

and Young as like a key. So

2:57

I was an accountant in account in

2:59

a previous. started working on this like

3:01

adventure. I think it was in the

3:03

August beforehand. Yeah, 2014. So we're actually

3:06

10 years old now, but we try

3:08

not to. Yeah, we're a little, yeah,

3:10

a huge role. So Alex was an

3:12

accountant, a nurse, and I was a

3:14

psychologist working in New South Wales Health.

3:16

Yeah, wow. So in like the psychiatric

3:18

kind of emergency pointy end of mental

3:20

health. And yeah, we had no background

3:22

in ecom, marketing, fashion. At least at

3:24

that point most people didn't have any

3:27

experience in ecom either. Exactly. Definitely not.

3:29

I think like it was really like

3:31

the early days of Instagram where we

3:33

were kind of like watching things happen

3:35

at the time. It's been a while

3:37

since it happens. We went back a

3:39

long time. We went back a long

3:41

time. Like what actually started it. So

3:43

there was this point where I was

3:45

writing like a fiction novel. Yeah. So

3:48

it was like 80 thousand word manuscript

3:50

at home. Danny was like doing all

3:52

of her work week. like oh it

3:54

talks in that book about how to

3:56

publish like a book and get it

3:58

on the best sellers list so that's

4:00

kind of like was Danny's always like

4:02

oh yeah we can like see what

4:04

we can read from this and then

4:06

it kind of like turned into this

4:08

weird thing about 2014 talking about like

4:11

Shopify and selling things on the internet

4:13

and like that was like it's not

4:15

really new anymore but back in 2014

4:17

it was like a really novel idea

4:19

and so Danny was like Yeah, we

4:21

went on a holiday, we're in Fiji,

4:23

I drank some water, which was like

4:25

not a good idea of Fiji, and

4:27

then she had like a day or

4:29

two alone with a laptop and the

4:32

four hour work week. Yeah, well, it

4:34

was, it was, as I like mentioned,

4:36

I was trying to think, I was

4:38

always chasing something to, you know, either

4:40

work in, like, parallel with psychology, so

4:42

it was never to get out of

4:44

psychology. We'd spend some time with friends

4:46

who started a beef jerky label and

4:48

I just kind of opened my eyes.

4:50

Yeah, he also worked at Ernst &

4:53

Young, so there's something in the water

4:55

at Ernst & Young Day. My theory

4:57

is when I first started, so my

4:59

last year Ernst & Young's 2010, they

5:01

were the only big four accounting firm

5:03

that like you have social media because

5:05

they were using it as a recruitment

5:07

tool, which is quite good for them.

5:09

All the other big fours and some

5:11

of the mid-years had like... five wall

5:14

restrictions for social media. So I spent

5:16

all of my time on Facebook and

5:18

social media. And so like that's why

5:20

I think for me personally, like I

5:22

would like just have like a. spreadsheet

5:24

open just alt tab if someone walks

5:26

by so I'm like secretly they're learning

5:28

about social I am giggling because I

5:30

don't know if I would have admit

5:32

this but we'll go all in I

5:35

used when we started kalani and we're

5:37

in the first few months and I

5:39

was still working with health I would

5:41

email myself from our customer care queries

5:43

and I had to because there were

5:45

firewalls in place and you couldn't have

5:47

an external account with the internet I'd

5:49

have to email myself to my work

5:51

reply to myself and to my phone

5:53

and then send it to you. to

5:56

keep a side hustle on the side

5:58

in the drawer at work. I was

6:00

always looking like I guess lusting for

6:02

something to do not like this was

6:04

never the intention it was only to

6:06

be like a side hustle. And yeah,

6:08

I think that's really important. I'm saying,

6:10

like when we were thinking about starting

6:12

the business, it was like, how do

6:14

we make 20 or 30 grand a

6:17

year to go traveling with, like, how

6:19

do we go back to Hawaii every

6:21

year? So like, the idea of it

6:23

was like, we went to Hawaii every

6:25

year for like three years in a

6:27

row, it was around the GFC and

6:29

the dollar was at parody. and you

6:31

can afford to like go there. It

6:33

was really nice. Not now. Yeah, not

6:35

today. It's expensive and you go, no,

6:38

actually, I'm sure most of your sales

6:40

from the US, it's actually better. Yes.

6:42

So I keep like, oh, my husband's

6:44

CFO is like, no, no. it's you

6:46

want the exchange rate to be bad

6:48

yeah it is about yeah yeah 80%

6:50

of our businesses is there but then

6:52

I guess it's your product from China

6:54

yes we have a kind of yes

6:56

and then everything that happened last week

6:59

every other stuff yes I can't even

7:01

say cannot compute I've lost my accounting

7:03

hat yes yeah so it's an interesting

7:05

way yeah but I guess just going

7:07

back to it was like that whole

7:09

thing was like how do we just

7:11

make time to go you know How

7:13

do we make enough to try to

7:15

enjoy two or three weeks a year

7:17

off? And like that was the whole

7:20

principle of it. So we never started.

7:22

At the time, I don't know what

7:24

your role was, I was starting as

7:26

like, I was in the corporate finance

7:28

team, and it was like a 50K,

7:30

55K job. Yep. Yeah, so all I

7:32

wanted was to make that. So then

7:34

I could just be like at least

7:36

I'm doing what I love. So we

7:38

all have relatively low standards for like

7:41

There's no expectation. We just wanted to

7:43

just improve our current lifestyle a little

7:45

bit Ex spot on I knew Alex

7:47

had this book had actually read the

7:49

manuscript I actually read I actually read

7:51

the manuscript on one of our troops

7:53

to Hawaii And I thought oh this

7:55

isn't that bad. I didn't really know

7:57

what to expect and I'd found I

7:59

thought okay. How can I get Alex

8:02

on like a best? I was like,

8:04

I was like, this could be a

8:06

movie, so I was like, let's get

8:08

this published, and I think, you know,

8:10

2013. it would have been around 14.

8:12

There was really, like you had to

8:14

read blogs on why, like how to

8:16

get a book published and Timothy Ferris

8:18

was kind, I think he wrote the

8:20

four-hour work and he had studied how

8:22

to get that book like as a

8:25

New York bestseller. So I thought the

8:27

book was going to be on how

8:29

to write like a bestseller, but it

8:31

talked about Alibaba, Shopify, virtual assistants and

8:33

I was just like. whoa because that

8:35

was not in you know working in

8:37

as a psychologist in health that is

8:39

just nothing that I'd heard of so

8:41

Alex is like there was like backdoor

8:43

kind of like tick-tockies now to like

8:46

finding all this information it was very

8:48

much like the world was like finding

8:50

all this information it was very much

8:52

like the early days like if you

8:54

just if you didn't know what's type

8:56

into Google you weren't going to discover

8:58

well Ali Baba was like the wild

9:00

west I was like the wild west

9:02

I think the wild west of the

9:04

wild west question transfer that's right yeah

9:07

so Alex was passed out sleeping resting

9:09

and you know productive yeah I read

9:11

um I've lit through the book and

9:13

we didn't get to go I didn't

9:15

want to like leave Alex in the

9:17

room so I was just like doing

9:19

the swimwear yeah yeah she did what

9:21

we do what we do is it's

9:23

not basic we do it it's not

9:25

basic we have an eye like I

9:28

really I've had a bit of a

9:30

creative, I think, like... You're very creative,

9:32

you're great at PR and a lot

9:34

of things. Yeah, if I had not

9:36

been trying to please my parents, sorry

9:38

mom and dad if they're listening, to

9:40

go to university, I think I would

9:42

have done PR or something like that.

9:44

I really enjoyed music, history, storytelling, but...

9:46

going to university because mom and dad

9:49

hadn't was important. So completely I think

9:51

I would like marketing media or something.

9:53

Yes, but accounting very safe for the

9:55

parents. Yes, yeah, yeah, so shout out

9:57

to yeah, that's I guess it has

9:59

actually served us all well. Yeah, so

10:01

there are some good things. Yeah, so

10:03

we left Fiji in 2014. Yeah, and

10:05

within about six months we had the

10:07

website built just, you know, every night

10:10

on the weekends kind of us going

10:12

to and from work. sampling, you know,

10:14

first round of samples coming in just

10:16

in the, you know, randomly turning up

10:18

on the doorstep, not really knowing too

10:20

much. I mean, now we have a

10:22

beautiful garment technician product develop, but we

10:24

had nothing like that. It was just

10:26

all very much fumbling through the dark

10:28

and finding the ways to make it

10:31

work. I think sometimes knowing, now knowing

10:33

what we know, I'm so glad we

10:35

didn't know all of that. Yeah. Otherwise

10:37

I don't think you would start. It

10:39

would seem a bit insurmountable insurmountable. Yes.

10:41

low knowledge that's actually like a real

10:43

good skill set to like not knowing

10:45

a lot. Yeah you have to be

10:47

I think a bit naive to be

10:49

an entrepreneur otherwise I feel like my

10:52

husband just like knows too much shit

10:54

about everything yeah that's why he's like

10:56

to risk a verse yeah well I

10:58

think it's always like you know I

11:00

mean Usually the people that do really

11:02

well in the space aren't from the

11:04

space generally because you figure out a

11:06

new way of doing things. Exactly, because

11:08

otherwise it's been done. You'll probably solve

11:10

it. You learn to like go, I

11:13

didn't even know this was an issue,

11:15

I'll just do it this way, whereas

11:17

the traditional channels might say no, you

11:19

have to do this. We're just like,

11:21

no, we're gonna go that. Yeah, we've

11:23

been having experience this week, I don't

11:25

know if you use Style arcade, and...

11:27

I think the trainer was trying to

11:29

determine like in a traditional way how

11:31

we create our collections and the model

11:34

that we use in the formula and

11:36

we like we do it in a

11:38

very different way and she was just

11:40

like wow I don't understand but it's

11:42

obviously working so there's something about having

11:44

a very different way of working things

11:46

out always doesn't have to be the

11:48

way that. you know it was exactly

11:50

yes how did you then move from

11:52

that like having the idea what was

11:55

the vision for bikinis yes well this

11:57

book is inspiring me to I want

11:59

to do it yeah there was a

12:01

step in in the middle which all

12:03

happened to I guess that week in

12:05

Fiji so we loved Hawaii that was

12:07

our happy place there was a swimway

12:09

brand in Hawaii called Saint Lorenzo which

12:11

was Brazilian seamless reversible and that product

12:13

and that brand wasn't available in Australia.

12:16

It was a little bit more conservative,

12:18

very surf, faced here, probably 10 plus

12:20

years ago. I initially thought that, so

12:22

the middle step was not, let's create

12:24

my own. In those couple of days,

12:26

I thought, well, perhaps to kind of,

12:28

you know, not. lose this island stuff

12:30

and go home and go back to

12:32

work. Maybe I could approach St. Lorenzo,

12:34

set up like a Shopify store and

12:37

maybe sell their product here. Essentially be

12:39

a distributor. Yeah, emailed them first before

12:41

jumping on Alibaba and asked them, could

12:43

I please wholesale your swimwear? And I

12:45

think they replied with it was going

12:47

to be about, I can swim over,

12:49

it was the wholesale, I was like,

12:51

how am I going to convince? someone

12:53

in Australia would have paid over $200

12:55

for a swimwear set with a brand

12:57

that nobody's heard of. So I was

13:00

like, right, scrap that. I'm just going

13:02

to go straight to a manufacturer and

13:04

just try this myself. So that was

13:06

really weird approach. Most people would just

13:08

say, no, I'm just not going to

13:10

do anything. But you took that really

13:12

unorthodox approach. Like, I was just going

13:14

to start my own brand. I think

13:16

that's really cool. I think that's really

13:18

cool. contrary thing. I guess that's probably

13:21

a personality thing that I don't like

13:23

a no or I'll you know seek

13:25

out a way around something usually and

13:27

I think you need that. We always

13:29

talk about like for a brand or

13:31

a business to be successful. Brands and

13:33

businesses can be successful in many different

13:35

ways but for a brand to be.

13:37

as successful at the I guess like

13:39

the scale that we now are, I

13:42

think you have to have a lot

13:44

of that drive and if you hear

13:46

or know or get something in the

13:48

way that you kind of work out

13:50

a way around it. That's just... You

13:52

just got to slither around it. Yeah,

13:54

exactly. Yeah, I think that's kind of

13:56

like one of like our core values

13:58

we call it buckle up, butter cup,

14:00

which is just this like whole thing

14:03

about enjoying the hustle, enjoying the ride

14:05

and even when you hit a tension

14:07

point. It's just time to buckle up.

14:09

and just get on with it and

14:11

it's like, you know, adversity is like,

14:13

yeah, it's just a part of the

14:15

game. Are you guys loving it? Yes.

14:17

Yes, it is. I think we say

14:19

the word is, we say, the buckle

14:21

up by the cop, like, looking at

14:24

it is so great. So do you

14:26

feel like recently I've been talking to

14:28

more people, the couples and... solo entrepreneurs

14:30

that are just like, oh my God,

14:32

you know, we're only doing this. We're

14:34

not saving lives. You could just take

14:36

less on. You don't need to be

14:38

the biggest either. Exactly. Just chill out,

14:40

like, enjoy it. You know, I don't

14:42

want anyone to be not ambitious. But

14:45

I'm like, what was the point of

14:47

doing it? Exactly. We often say, I

14:49

think I've used the word a lot

14:51

lately, it's beautifully relentless, it's beautifully. how

14:53

tired we are how much we've got

14:55

on but the boy version of this

14:57

is like all it's like the terminator

14:59

it never sleeps it never eats it

15:01

never doesn't always find you it's like

15:03

but it's okay it's only moving as

15:06

much as you move yeah you're actually

15:08

control of it you're actually control of

15:10

it and I think that's taken a

15:12

long time though to get used to

15:14

that because like we're 10 years in

15:16

the hour we're both like 38 you

15:18

get to that a bit later I

15:20

remember being like 25 to like 30

15:22

like 30 and I was super impatient

15:24

And I did think a lot about

15:27

like always needing to shoot for the

15:29

stars and I'm only going to be

15:31

happy if I make it to Venus.

15:33

You know, like I think there is

15:35

like a journey you go along, which

15:37

is like, you know, you really have

15:39

to, through life, like find like what

15:41

makes you tick. And I think, yeah,

15:43

it's different for every person though. We

15:45

enjoy the challenge of business. Yeah. Yeah.

15:48

And that's the, I guess, because there

15:50

are certainly loads of challenges, you know,

15:52

you know, We do really must enjoy

15:54

that and I you know we don't

15:56

work we work probably like you Molly

15:58

we work together but not I barely

16:00

see Alex sometimes the barely replies to

16:02

my messages excuse me so yeah but

16:04

we really do you're doing great there

16:06

is joy in the the hustle of

16:09

it all how do you split your

16:11

roles I see it from the design

16:13

I guess concept storytelling kind of side

16:15

probably through to assisting with a bit

16:17

of brand content yeah it's the way

16:19

Yeah, I think of how we sit

16:21

in our office. The teams almost sit

16:23

in like a flow and then I

16:25

end probably around X and around PR

16:27

and then you pick up from marketing,

16:30

ecom, paid digital. A whole bunch of

16:32

stuff. I think there's like what I

16:34

like kind of like say like we're

16:36

like a really nice skill set of

16:38

creatives so we kind of talk internally

16:40

like you're either a creator or a

16:42

curator. and like she's like a creator

16:44

and I'm a curator and it's kind

16:46

of makes perfect sense you need someone

16:48

who can like just throw a huge

16:51

amount of ideas out there and just

16:53

continuously like spool off them if that

16:55

makes sense. What I try and do

16:57

now is I try not in fact

16:59

the process too early. Yeah you kind

17:01

of have to let the design team

17:03

do their work of like what I

17:05

call it puttering. to the right result

17:07

and then you have to come in

17:09

and kind of like Edward Caesar hands

17:11

towards the end which is like okay

17:14

like what's going to sell like what's

17:16

commercial? Yeah we very much are yin

17:18

to yang so and I'm sure it

17:20

frustrates our teams to no ends that

17:22

they'll ask us a question and Alex

17:24

will say one thing and I say

17:26

they're complete opposite yeah but I think

17:28

that is then our teams are so

17:30

great at finding they know something different

17:32

as well yeah yeah yeah they find

17:35

I think the balance and the middle

17:37

of where we need to be and

17:39

that's why we've been so successful we

17:41

have awesome team and leads. Yeah and

17:43

it's like where you meet in the

17:45

middle is like you know that's gold.

17:47

Yeah. One of our biggest like tension

17:49

points when Waldy first kind of like

17:51

started he realized especially with new people

17:53

we had to keep telling people like

17:56

Jane is an ideas person don't think

17:58

if she throws an idea out she

18:00

wants still wants you to go plan

18:02

it out right the business case it

18:04

still needs to be approved. I throw

18:06

so much like darts out there. Yeah,

18:08

like it's not approved, you know, and

18:10

I think people forget that. So and

18:12

then that's where he frustrated. He's like,

18:14

who approved this? I'm like, well, I

18:17

didn't. I'm just all the idea. I

18:19

talked to her once while I'm in

18:21

a coffee. Yeah, yeah. So you're at

18:23

this point. So you didn't, you're like,

18:25

nothing's Googleable. Yes, not easily. And then

18:27

you realized that wholesale just It's just

18:29

like why and then also why build

18:31

someone else's brand. Yes. That's right. Yes

18:33

And then so you're like okay I'm

18:35

gonna do myself because you know like

18:38

so often people go Alibaba like if

18:40

someone's like where can I get stuck?

18:42

They're like Alibaba and they think it's

18:44

crap. They don't think it's possible, but

18:46

I think that you're such an alibaba

18:48

success story. Yeah, we're still working with

18:50

your supplier. Yes, yeah, we work with

18:52

our original supplier that we met through.

18:54

I think it is, it's a really

18:56

hard platform to navigate. Yeah. You don't

18:59

know if someone is a seller if

19:01

they work in the factory, if they're

19:03

like, it looks a bit like I

19:05

guess now we can navigate. Yeah, so

19:07

we I think just literally emailed a

19:09

couple of different suppliers and had a

19:11

few emails back and forth and this

19:13

one just felt. like it just she

19:15

answered differently and she said that she

19:17

felt like I was very kind I

19:20

think she was very patient with my

19:22

questions was very clear that I didn't

19:24

really know what you know when you're

19:26

asking what's OEM or what's MOU yes

19:28

I was like yeah that she had

19:30

the patience to kind of walk me

19:32

through that and we've been really fortunate

19:34

to we almost she owns her factory

19:36

now with her husband but we're pretty

19:38

much vertically integrated with her nimble yeah

19:41

great and like I also think that's

19:43

the secret of it too like because

19:45

you know if you think about we

19:47

just did swimwear we weren't trying to

19:49

do like dresses denim this stuff so

19:51

you could really build a great structure

19:53

with one and you could have that

19:55

wasn't super complicated like that was the

19:57

one benefit we had of it being

19:59

in an age category of just swimwear

20:02

yeah because your supply chain isn't super

20:04

complicated and we made sure again it

20:06

wasn't rocket science is it but we

20:08

made sure we made sure we made

20:10

sure we had points are different so

20:12

we made sure we had points are

20:14

different so it was going to be

20:16

we said price point that we'd come

20:18

in a lot lower then everybody so

20:20

we didn't have the over different we

20:23

have always been really print heavy. And

20:25

that's just because we love color. Yeah.

20:27

We love artwork. Yeah, wearing dinner. Yeah,

20:29

dinner. Yeah. Both dinner. But yeah, I

20:31

think swim allows you to have that,

20:33

I guess. you know, flare that maybe

20:35

wouldn't take as bold. I know clothing,

20:37

there's a lot of print out there,

20:39

but yeah, swim, you can kind of

20:41

express yourself, it's a bit smaller. So

20:44

we always had print being a point

20:46

of difference. We had the reversible seamless

20:48

swimwear, and we had cheeky cuts, which...

20:50

And full coverage cuts. Yeah, we did

20:52

a full coverage minimal, like a full

20:54

coverage seamless bottom, which was a little

20:56

bit of a niche at the time.

20:58

So... Yeah, and so we did that.

21:00

that we launched and it was one

21:02

of those things we started an Instagram

21:05

account I think in like the January

21:07

just before like we launched on the

21:09

20th of February or something like that

21:11

we we had like 800 followers at

21:13

the time just follow you where you

21:15

would sit there and you would just

21:17

follow people hoping to get like 20th

21:19

of that point you can post like

21:21

an inspo pick yes of like some

21:23

random Pinterest photo and you can still

21:25

get followers engagement yes that was the

21:28

sweet story days yes we didn't do

21:30

paid advertising until well No, we got

21:32

the business to doing like, I think

21:34

it was like three or four million

21:36

revenue before we started. Yes. Or we

21:38

did any more. Oh, you did three

21:40

to four mill organic. Yes. Through social

21:42

media. Yeah. Through 2019. Yeah, through gifting

21:44

and wholesale. Yeah, I mean, we're lucky

21:46

that the product girls want to wear

21:49

the product. It's a product that you

21:51

take on holidays, which is when you

21:53

really want to capture. Yes, so they

21:55

kind of go hand in hand. So

21:57

we're lucky. But yeah, it's just no

21:59

expectation. And it's just if you love

22:01

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22:03

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Code Listen for $50 off. How

22:58

many stars did you launch with and how

23:00

much did you sell? The choice was like

23:03

we had $10,000. Do we go on another

23:05

holiday or do we buy stock? Yes. So

23:07

I made the case. Yeah, Alex had a

23:09

spreadsheet and I think it was so we

23:11

have $10,000. Yeah, $10,000. Yeah, $10,000. Yeah, $10,000.

23:13

I think we had four, maybe four or

23:15

five prints. Six prints, sorry. And how many

23:18

options in each, like it would have been?

23:20

One or two. We didn't have a lot.

23:22

contained, it was not being... MVP, yeah, yeah.

23:24

Yeah, and they just worked, she launched website

23:26

at 2am. Yes, and then went to bed,

23:28

and I worked up at 8am. by myself

23:30

because she'd already left for the airport and

23:33

had like $823 of sales. Wow. Yeah. It

23:35

was just like a funny little thing. And

23:37

our first sale was to a man in

23:39

America. Yeah. Like all of buying for his

23:41

girlfriend. That's a night of all. Yes, I

23:43

think maybe the time because we launched it

23:45

to the... We launched it at the end

23:48

of Australian summer, thank goodness. Yeah, we in

23:50

our minds we had... $10,000 worth of stock,

23:52

25% of the stock I'd committed to gifting

23:54

because I'd seen you know influences Ashley Bines

23:56

that I just still remember Ashley was as

23:58

if I can just get my swimsuit to

24:00

Ashley Ashley will you know post it and

24:03

then we'll get sales I've sent out Ashley

24:05

a message and I got back the cost

24:07

of how much it would be to wear

24:09

the swimsuit. I was like Oh, that's a

24:11

big holiday. I was like, okay. We've always

24:13

been pretty, I guess, creative. It was even,

24:15

I think back then it was like 500

24:18

bucks. Probably like in hindsight, it wasn't a

24:20

lot, but it was just kind of... Renee

24:22

Sommerfield was a big one. Yeah, it was

24:24

just those things. She's the immense of back

24:26

then. Yeah, it's like, immense is the girl

24:28

that's everywhere with the similar figure. Yes, yeah.

24:30

We dedicated 25% of the stock to gifting.

24:33

Oh yeah, we had no other cash left.

24:35

Why did we put it all there? I

24:37

love to find people's addresses and work out,

24:39

you know, where they were, so it was

24:41

just lots of surprise gif gif. Ernst &

24:43

Young were in Hawaii. Oh yeah. Before we,

24:45

I'd read the book and everything, I thought

24:48

maybe we could change our lives up and

24:50

I could work, you know, on tables here

24:52

and Hawaii serving things, drinks and everything. Yeah,

24:54

so I went into the Ernst & Young

24:56

office in downtown Honolulu, took the lift up

24:58

and was like, hey, can I like have

25:00

a job here? Can I like do a

25:03

second? Yeah. And they're all wearing Hawaiian shirts

25:05

with E, white colors with E, white colors

25:07

on the white color, I didn't know that

25:09

existed, but it existed, but it existed, but

25:11

it did. but we're a satellite office of

25:13

California. So the head office for California is

25:15

San Francisco and it's a big office in

25:18

Los Angeles. for about a year or two.

25:20

It just opened up the opportunity. Like it

25:22

caused there were a few internal emails saying

25:24

there's this Australian who might want to come

25:26

because Alex was in tax, the string USA

25:28

tax. Yeah, I remember the lady's name was

25:31

Nancy Kachealma. That's the one that she was

25:33

a native Hawaiian. Yeah, they thought potentially we

25:35

could have this Australian come over and sit

25:37

in their LA office and that was two

25:39

years prior. That was before I had read

25:41

the book. So that was just I was

25:43

looking for how can we change things up,

25:46

how we change things up, you know, you

25:48

know, you know, you know, not have not

25:50

have not have the same things up, you

25:52

know, you know, you know, you know, you

25:54

know, not have, year and year, but that

25:56

seed there and set in motion after this

25:58

window had been launched we got literally the

26:01

call to say in November you guys if

26:03

you want to go you can go to

26:05

California, Alex and get a transfer to the

26:07

downtown LA office. Yeah. And I went as

26:09

he's. And I was like a translation service.

26:11

So imagine like Nicole Kidman is a great

26:13

example of someone who would do a movie

26:16

in America have like US tax problems but

26:18

be here and be like. who taxes what

26:20

and who does what. So it's kind of

26:22

like just suffering between the two countries. So

26:24

good to have that knowledge at work. Yeah,

26:26

so that was that was kind of like

26:28

the start of that's why I got moved

26:31

because I kind of built a proficiency in

26:33

that and then when we got to America

26:35

we landed on. Thanksgiving Day in 2015. I

26:37

was like, everything was closed or like, how

26:39

we made the worst decision of our lives.

26:41

It's like a gross town. And in my

26:43

mind, we were moving to Santa Monica Beach,

26:46

and we're just going to have this adventure,

26:48

but I didn't realize LA, the traffic, and

26:50

just like even like crows flies. Like you're

26:52

stuck there now. Yeah. So we ended up

26:54

in downtown, which is not, I guess, what

26:56

we'd envisaged, but that was, I call it

26:58

my bikiniini. four weeks in a row with

27:01

no weekends. Yes. And yeah, I remember they

27:03

were saying like charge out right. How much

27:05

charge out? It's like 70% in Australia, 80%

27:07

New Zealand, or whatever, and then hundreds of

27:09

years, it's over 100% for the US, so

27:11

it's like, oh my God. Yeah, yeah, that

27:13

was, Alex was there all day, so I

27:16

was really, and with the time zone, everybody's

27:18

asleep here, I had to leave health because,

27:20

and I couldn't work in anything else because

27:22

your degree doesn't translate unless you do like

27:24

a bridging course, but it was the perfect

27:26

opportunity to be forced into just doing the

27:28

business. So we were very lucky, mom and

27:31

dad. we left the stock back in Sydney.

27:33

My parents are just retired so every second

27:35

or third day. We took a few boxes.

27:37

We took some boxes instead of clothing. We

27:39

were allowed six suitcases. We packed them all

27:41

full swimwear and we would ship some if

27:43

we could fulfill an order. So here we

27:46

have like, yeah, we have multiple warehouses. If

27:48

we could fill an order from our studio

27:50

apartment, I would send it. I would use

27:52

the EYM. I would write the EYM order

27:54

and check at the end of the month

27:56

for everything I tell it off. And if

27:58

we couldn't fulfill it from Australia, from the

28:01

studio apartment in LA, we would get my

28:03

parents to. But for them, they were retired,

28:05

they used to like to do things. So

28:07

a girl would place an order. and maybe

28:09

two or three days later her order would

28:11

ship so it's not great customer care. Oh

28:13

my god my parents are so good they

28:16

did they did recharge processing when we were

28:18

already making like I think we met at

28:20

like one million two million run rate that's

28:22

so careful with everything yeah I remember once

28:24

that was the point when my mom had

28:26

made it take a sticky to write thank-you

28:28

notes and then at the end of the

28:31

day I looked over her shoulder my everything

28:33

is broken in English. I'm like, oh my

28:35

God, people already at this point, I think

28:37

like 15 years go, people are a lot

28:39

more like, oh, made in China. So I'm

28:41

like, we cannot be writing, thank you, it's

28:43

broken English. Open it all up, let's rewrite,

28:46

and it's like, oh my God. Yeah, we

28:48

have, Alex's mom, was our returns to pharma

28:50

for many years. Yes. What were the biggest,

28:52

like, I guess, milestones, like, milestonesones, and growth.

28:54

Do you get to where you get to

28:56

where you get to where you are where

28:58

you are where you are where you are

29:01

where you are where you are, where you

29:03

are, where you are, where you know, where

29:05

you are, where you know, where you know,

29:07

where you know, where you know, where you

29:09

know, where you know, where you know, where

29:11

you know, When we got to America, we

29:13

started doing trade shows. So the reason we

29:16

got into a trade show... Do you guys

29:18

do a lot of the whole sound now?

29:20

Yes. 25%? 25% of our business? At our

29:22

biggest point, it was almost 50-50. So it

29:24

was 50% to save 50%. B to B,

29:26

but we pulled that back. It was crazy.

29:28

We just stopped growing it and let the

29:31

data see grow. If that makes sense, we

29:33

just kind of said, well, we're really comfortable

29:35

with this level. But you think about a

29:37

brand like us, we're making something that's very

29:39

like bespoke manufactured product that we can't find

29:41

in the market. That kind of like really

29:43

aligns with the wholesaler. because they're like oh

29:46

I'm looking for something new that I can't

29:48

find I want to attract new customers to

29:50

my store like how do I like get

29:52

better products into my thing we had a

29:54

very low price for our first year or

29:56

two in our early years I guess it

29:59

was like we were talking about margins for

30:01

it was like $20 to buy 20 US

30:03

yeah which was it's now There's 20 per

30:05

top, 20 per bottom. Yes, because it was

30:07

just the two of us. It was just

30:09

the two of us. We had no overheads.

30:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the people don't

30:14

factor in their own time that much or

30:16

you pay you some very low. Yes, exactly.

30:18

Yeah, yeah, we weren't making like a lot

30:20

of money back then. It was like, you

30:22

know, in terms of the big linch pin

30:24

though, it was right, we were happy. that

30:26

check that we got ever for a wholesale

30:29

is actually from Billable. It was funny. It

30:31

was a subsidiary of like Honolulu Surf which

30:33

was like this little like company in the

30:35

water. So we got a check for Billong.

30:37

What's this for? This is interesting. And then

30:39

six months later we went to the next

30:41

show and that was like the really seminal

30:44

moments. This was 2016 in like June 2016.

30:46

Yes. We're sitting in a booth and there's

30:48

just this, you know, you talk about weird

30:50

moments that kind of happened. So we met

30:52

this guy next door to us, his name

30:54

was Tan, Danny tells his story like a

30:56

lot better than me. When you go to

30:59

trade shows, it's all about where you're positioned

31:01

and we were outside of the main area.

31:03

So we're a little bit sad because we

31:05

were out in like, I guess, the lead

31:07

up to the main area, but we had

31:09

a really good relationship with the trade show

31:11

runnerer and I think that she without us

31:14

knowing and we've just without us knowing and

31:16

we've just like just like took a look.

31:18

about a year to really connect the dots.

31:20

She placed us next to 10. 10 is

31:22

on Queer Eye for the Straight Guy. Before

31:24

that he had a brand called Kingdom and

31:26

State which was swimwear from, he was based

31:29

in Utah. So it was really for like

31:31

Mormon kind of Midwest girls. I think we

31:33

were intentionally placed there because she knew that

31:35

he was such a kind person that he

31:37

would share a lot of. I guess insights

31:39

and when things were quietly would he just

31:41

you know would say come down and we'll

31:44

talk I could talk you through a few

31:46

things and it was me in a moment

31:48

because he was like oh you know I

31:50

was selling the brand I'm gonna go on

31:52

this like reality TV show I've got a

31:54

manager yeah it was short yeah it was

31:56

big and so he just said look there's

31:59

this girl over there there was a group

32:01

of people because buyers from small shops come

32:03

in one or two but from the big

32:05

department stores that they come in like a

32:07

group yeah they come in like a merchandizerzer

32:09

and he said if you can, whatever you

32:11

do, get them to your booth. And it

32:14

was the daughter of, and the GM of

32:16

Forever 21, which Forever 21. you know, eight

32:18

years ago. Yeah, billions of dollars before they

32:20

were busted. Yes, yes, yeah. And they did

32:22

their own brand. They were trying to a

32:24

strategy for their online store where they wanted

32:26

to increase the cost, the order value per

32:29

cart checkout. So they were trialling different brands

32:31

to kind of elevate, I guess what their

32:33

offerings were. They did us, they did much,

32:35

or rocks, they didn't ink pink, they love

32:37

all those brands at the time. on her

32:39

and they didn't such a baby. Yeah they

32:41

didn't hide our brand they put our brand

32:44

on their website and when we launched... On

32:46

their home page for like on their banner

32:48

and just you think the eyes and the

32:50

traffic that they get that really that was

32:52

a milestone moment for us because it really

32:54

just turned the traffic on and we were

32:56

back in Australia because we had to for

32:59

tax purposes we didn't want to... Well I

33:01

just didn't want to run on business in

33:03

America anymore. Yeah and it was like a

33:05

bit of a... Mum and Dad's you know

33:07

shipping the orders every other day we needed

33:09

to be a little bit more things were

33:11

growing and Alex went back to Ernst &

33:14

Young though and so we just between us

33:16

but mainly myself and with the parents help

33:18

we kind of got all the orders out

33:20

but we probably between the two of us

33:22

got the... ran to about three, three million.

33:24

Yes, before we, and it was year five

33:26

until we hired our first part time to

33:29

help. So we, I think looking back, we

33:31

did things the hard way. We always seem

33:33

to do things. This is like how we

33:35

started, which wasn't to like, let's go conquer

33:37

the swimwear world. It was like, let's just

33:39

do this. And I think. Yeah, try and

33:41

enjoy the journey, but also... It's like a

33:44

safer way, but it's more manual. Like, yes,

33:46

yeah. I mean, when I first started also,

33:48

like, I used to buy on consignment, so

33:50

every morning I picked up stock to sell,

33:52

because I didn't want to buy the stock

33:54

outright. Impact impacts of seven. Yeah. Yeah, you

33:56

do the things which I guess, the least

33:59

risky away, or you just, yes, things that

34:01

don't scale. Yes. So there's like a lot

34:03

of bikini companies out there, you know, like,

34:05

and I think a lot of people when

34:07

they start businesses, it's like a jewelry business,

34:09

candle business, bikini business. There's a lot of

34:11

swimming businesses. There's a lot and very few

34:14

do make it, less make it at the

34:16

scale. Yes. What do you think is the

34:18

reason for your success? Relentous, do you think

34:20

of? So yeah, so in terms of why

34:22

have we survived, I think a lot of

34:24

people start what I would call lifestyle brands

34:26

our brands or... labels or something like we

34:29

like to in the first few is really

34:31

because they were a fashion business. So I

34:33

think we really approached everything from a business

34:35

perspective and how you could do things better.

34:37

We weren't a fashion label. Yes we came

34:39

from, we say it was like an e-commerce

34:42

business and yes and I think what we

34:44

sometimes talk about is we're very fortunate to

34:46

have the business acumen I guess I have

34:48

accredited that to Alex and then the tenacity

34:50

of just like pushing and not giving up

34:52

and that's just something that you've got that

34:54

hustle and that drive if you want it

34:57

enough. But not you guys, what do you

34:59

think about your brand is different? Do you

35:01

know like it's like, so like you guys

35:03

can say that about show pro and any

35:05

successful founder can say it's our valleys right?

35:07

I think if you took our brand name

35:09

away from our Instagram page for example you

35:12

would know what the brand is. Yeah, so

35:14

design, the strong product handwriting. Yes, which is

35:16

the color and the prints and the prints

35:18

and I think. that is created and then

35:20

okay then what happens when someone copies your

35:22

design right so then what's the next thing

35:24

is it the social media community that you've

35:27

built? Is it the brand activations? I think

35:29

it is how it all fits together. Like

35:31

it is so complex and it is like

35:33

it's not just the print and the design

35:35

and the photos, it's an activation and then

35:37

it's the influence is wearing it, you know,

35:39

then it's the magazine that's with it. It's

35:42

the eco- It's the e-com experience, it's the

35:44

customer care, it's the whole thing. It's the

35:46

culture of the team like they are relentless

35:48

too, like like like good luck to anyone

35:50

trying to anyone trying to keep up. So

35:52

I think it is, I think that's the

35:54

other part. No, but it is the everything

35:57

just, it's like a whirlpool and I think

35:59

it just. Yeah, I guess the momentum

36:01

is carried by everyone and we've

36:03

got. Yeah, I also think like we, you

36:06

know, it's very hard to copy us now.

36:08

I often say this to the team, like

36:10

we're very lucky that in 2015 there

36:12

was no Kalani Kini's. So there is

36:14

this kind of like, I think there

36:17

is a reality to the luck of

36:19

being a first mover advantage where you

36:21

do get to be these brands that

36:23

stamp in the egeography like the digital

36:25

space. It is like it's hard to

36:27

knock us off our post because we're

36:30

there and we have the resources

36:32

to do really cool things. I think as

36:34

we get bigger and bigger we're always trying

36:36

like the thing is we don't just hang

36:38

our hat and say we're done we're like

36:41

how do we keep pushing how do we

36:43

keep pushing whether it's like entering

36:45

your product categories whether it's

36:47

like we change our website

36:49

every two weeks we like

36:51

just constantly pushing and I guess

36:53

there's no... not a formula but we're very

36:55

eclectic in what we do so you

36:57

just don't sometimes we don't know where

36:59

we're going to do next thing's just

37:01

fall into place yeah so and also

37:03

we have a very sophisticated I think

37:05

recently well probably over the last couple

37:08

of years we've really tightened up internally

37:10

in terms of strategy and setting keeping

37:12

accountability within the teams and that just

37:14

adds like another layer you've grown up

37:16

yes yes and I think that's the thing

37:18

I think that there's always the like the

37:20

opportunity for someone to come along and we're

37:22

like Absolutely they should. And

37:25

like if we lose, we deserve to

37:27

lose. But it's also not a winner

37:29

takes all market. Correct. Exactly. I

37:31

think there's so much room

37:33

in the market. Everyone told

37:35

us, like when we're starting, but

37:38

Swinware is so saturated, well, I

37:40

was like, well, you can jump in

37:42

the ocean with everyone. I mean, that

37:45

also means that there's a lot of

37:47

opportunity. Yeah, exactly. So I think it's

37:49

really easy in that way. You can't

37:51

even more of a hot mess than

37:54

I already was. You are a hot

37:56

mess. It's a hot mess now. Every week

37:58

or so I feel like this. that we

38:00

could fill some tea on. You mentioned glitter

38:02

bomb. Now I'm maybe not so proud of

38:04

that moment. I sat in the customer care

38:07

team for I would say nearly seven years

38:09

which is how we talked about that we

38:11

spent probably a long time in and it

38:13

was a really great part of that because

38:15

we really listening to what the customer wanted

38:18

and needed but also. possibly should have lifted

38:20

out of there a little bit earlier to

38:22

be going on and doing other big things.

38:24

So when customers, there's online fraud, unfortunately, where

38:26

people say they got their order, they didn't

38:29

get their order, and I would take it

38:31

extremely personally when someone... I guess was lying

38:33

about whether they received a package or not.

38:35

If we had clear proof that they did

38:37

get their package, which was usually a photo

38:40

of them wearing the product on their social

38:42

media, even though they have done a charge

38:44

back and so they didn't get it. Sometimes

38:46

I probably couldn't let things go and a

38:48

may or may not have sent multiple glitter

38:51

bombs, which is there's a business that sends,

38:53

yeah, you just pop up the address in,

38:55

it's an anonymous package when the person opens

38:57

it, they poo. Yeah. messy but pretty surprised.

39:00

Did they stop? Did it work? Well we,

39:02

no I don't, I don't know if it,

39:04

it just, it made me feel like really,

39:06

there's a YouTube channel, there's guy says really

39:08

bad fart smells. Yeah, that might be, yeah,

39:11

I feel like, yeah, the other one that

39:13

we did was we had a girl pretend

39:15

to be an influencer and, you know, to

39:17

get gifted free product and it turned out

39:19

that she wasn't, right, just about as we

39:22

were about to ship the package. but she

39:24

was a US influencer, youtuber, so it clearly

39:26

wasn't her. However, I felt like I'd been

39:28

taken for such a ride. I had a

39:30

miniature swimsuit made for her. Yeah, we do,

39:33

yeah, well, yeah, we do end the actual

39:35

influencer and said this person is, you know,

39:37

masquerading as you and getting free product. She

39:39

said, thank you for letting me know, he's

39:41

my actual address, I'll take your product. She

39:44

was a huge YouTube and wore the product

39:46

and wore the product and wore the product

39:48

and wore the product and that was a

39:50

product and wore the product and wore the

39:52

product and wore the product and that was

39:55

a product and wore the product and wore

39:57

the product and that was a product, and

39:59

wore the product, and wore the product, and

40:01

wore the product, and wore the product, and

40:03

wore the product, and wore the product, and

40:06

wore the product, and wore the product, and

40:08

wore the product. to this girl in the

40:10

carriones and a mini version of the swimsuit

40:12

that she picked. It was like made for

40:14

a Barbie doll. And I said, I think

40:17

a small swimsuit for a small person. Like,

40:19

is it like, you don't just see it?

40:21

Oh my God, yeah. Oh my God, that's

40:23

really, I'm probably not super proud of that

40:25

stuff. I think it's hard work. Entrepreneur at

40:28

you. I think that's true. Yeah, I can

40:30

never get divorced. I'm just so scared. Yeah,

40:32

she's petty as fast. Yeah, she's getting terrified.

40:34

Yeah, I think we used the word, I'll

40:36

rob a few gas stations on the way

40:39

to the bank. So yeah. that's some water

40:41

that we have. And that's not to encourage

40:43

to do the wrong thing. Yes. But you

40:45

got to be out of bend rules and

40:47

you got to understand like things that can

40:50

flex and that can't. Yeah. I think like,

40:52

you know, it's that goes back to all

40:54

the laws going to say no. For example,

40:56

how do you bend around? Like how do

40:58

you risk a magic? No matter. Love that.

41:01

Thank you guys so much. You have such

41:03

an incredible startup story. What a journey you've

41:05

been on. Thank you. No one's going anywhere

41:07

because we are doing this help my small

41:09

business review next So you guys tune in

41:12

on Thursday for this Okay, that's it from

41:14

me for now. Thanks for listening and don't

41:16

forget you can now watch the full podcast

41:18

episodes on my YouTube channel called You Guess

41:20

It lazy CEO channel And if you're loving

41:23

the podcast, don't forget to follow. And you

41:25

can do me a huge favour by leaving

41:27

us a review. And if you want more,

41:29

you can join the conversations on the podcast,

41:31

Instagram, at the Lazy CEO underscore podcast, all

41:34

linked in the show note. Catch you next

41:36

Tuesday. Accelerate your operations with IT-O-T convergence. Transform

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