0:00

I'm going to share with you a story right now

0:02

that I've never shared anywhere before. When you're

0:04

at a university, in your six-year usually,

0:07

you come up for what's called tenure.

0:09

And if you get tenure, you have

0:11

a lifetime appointment for the next 30

0:14

years. That is guaranteed income. Your life

0:16

is about as good as you can

0:18

be of any job in the world.

0:21

And my department voted enthusiastically to recommend

0:23

me for tenure. So I go into

0:25

my meeting with the deans where I'm

0:28

thinking I'm getting tenure. My

0:30

department's told me they want me to

0:32

get tenure. I got promoted to untenured

0:34

associate but not to a tendered

0:36

position. And it was unbelievably shocking.

0:38

So I'd leave the dean's office,

0:40

I'd go in the stairwell, and

0:42

I'd cry. This

0:45

episode is brought to you

0:47

by my friends at Insight

0:50

Global. Insight Global is a

0:52

staffing and professional services company

0:54

dedicated to being the light

0:56

to the world around them.

0:58

If you need to hire

1:00

one person, hire a team

1:02

of people, or transform your

1:04

business through talent or technical

1:06

services, Insight Global's team of

1:08

30,000 people around the world

1:10

have the hustle and grit

1:13

to deliver. Hiring can be

1:15

tough, but hiring the

1:17

right person can

1:19

be magic. Visit

1:22

inside global.com/learning leader

1:24

today to learn

1:27

more. That's inside

1:29

global.com/ learning leader.

1:31

Welcome to the Learning Leader

1:33

Show. I am your host Ryan

1:36

Hawk. Thank you so much for

1:38

being here. to 66866 to become

1:40

part of Mindful Monday. You, along

1:43

with tens of thousands of other

1:45

learning leaders from all over the

1:47

world, will receive a carefully curated

1:49

email from me each Monday morning

1:52

to help you start your week

1:54

off. Right? You'll also receive details

1:56

about how our book, The Score

1:59

That Matters. to help you

2:01

become a more effective leader.

2:03

Text talk! to 66866. Now

2:05

on to tonight's featured leader

2:07

Adam Galenski is a social

2:09

psychologist and professor of leadership

2:12

and ethics at Columbia Business

2:14

School. He delivered one of

2:16

the most viewed TED Talks

2:18

of all time called How

2:21

to Speak Up for Yourself.

2:23

And he's also the author

2:25

of a great new book

2:27

called Inspire, the Universal Path

2:30

for Leading Yourself and Others.

2:32

During this conversation we discussed,

2:34

real life examples of how

2:36

leaders kept their composure during

2:38

extreme adversity and how you

2:41

can do the same. And

2:43

then he shares how to

2:45

develop confidence to do something

2:47

you've never done before, the

2:50

qualities that the world's most

2:52

inspiring leaders possess, and how

2:54

to use your power for

2:56

good. Ladies and gentlemen, please

2:59

enjoy my conversation with Adam

3:01

Galinsky. What

3:05

can we learn about leadership from Southwest

3:07

Airlines Flight 1380? That's a great question.

3:09

So some of you may know Southwest

3:11

Flight 1380. It was a flight that

3:13

was going from New York Legordia to

3:15

Dallas Fort Worth and about some maybe

3:17

a half an hour into the flight.

3:19

The pilots were flying along and they

3:21

felt adjolt. And as the captain said,

3:23

it felt like literally they'd been hit

3:26

by a Mac truck in the middle

3:28

of the air. And what had happened

3:30

is their left engine had exploded and

3:32

tore a hole in the side of

3:34

the plane. And so, you know, at

3:36

that point, you know, many different things

3:38

were happening. First of all, one of

3:40

the passengers was unfortunately fatally wounded by

3:42

being sucked into that hole. Two, obviously

3:44

they were losing cabin pressure and oxygen,

3:47

and so they had to adjust for

3:49

that. Obviously the hole in the hole

3:51

in the flight. side of the plane

3:53

was also affecting the ability of the

3:55

plane to fly. Clearly they also lost

3:57

one engine and I think you know

3:59

what happened next is really just so

4:01

remarkable because of how Tammy Joe Schultz

4:03

the pilot handled that situation. And I

4:05

think there's there's you know few things

4:07

that she did in that situation that

4:10

I think are really critical. The first

4:12

thing she did was clearly like she

4:14

diagnosed the problem and they had a

4:16

pretty good sense of what was going

4:18

on and so she figured out what

4:20

do we need to do first? And

4:22

the first thing that she realizes. we

4:24

need to lower the, as she described

4:26

later on an interview, she said, the

4:28

plane was telling us that it wanted

4:31

to go down in altitude. So as

4:33

she said, we'd let the plane go

4:35

down in altitude. So she sort of

4:37

figured out what the plane needed to

4:39

do to be sort of effective. But

4:41

here's what I think that made her

4:43

not just a great pilot, but a

4:45

great leader. Now imagine you're a passenger

4:47

seeing that plane and all of a

4:49

sudden, you know there's a hole in

4:51

the plane, and now the plane is

4:54

dropping. And there's probably this sense of

4:56

just a sense of just unbelievable sense

4:58

of panic of, oh my God, we

5:00

are just dropping from the scribe to

5:02

the ground. And she wanted the loudspeaker

5:04

and she just uttered 10 words. And

5:06

when you talk to the passengers afterwards,

5:08

they always describe those 10 words as

5:10

like, transformational, like turning the possibility, panic

5:12

into possibility. And those 10 words were

5:15

simply, we are not going down, we

5:17

are going to Philly. And so she

5:19

was letting them know, like, there was

5:21

a plan. Like, she didn't leave them

5:23

and defending silence, right? And that was

5:25

really, really important. And I think one

5:27

of the things that we forget as

5:29

leaders is we got to accomplish the

5:31

task, in this case, landing the plane

5:33

successfully with no further injuries. But that

5:36

doesn't mean we have to do that

5:38

in a vacuum or isolation. Because we're

5:40

a leader, because we have followers, we

5:42

also have to communicate to those individuals.

5:44

And so I think that is one

5:46

of the remarkable things. And just her

5:48

attention throughout the process. I love this

5:50

one little detail. So she landed the

5:52

plane. and she purposely moved the plane

5:54

so that the fire engines and ambulances

5:56

were on the side where the engine

5:59

exploded in case there's a fire in

6:01

case anything. But she also in her

6:03

mind she said there could be a

6:05

there could be a passenger who holy

6:07

panics, rips open like the exit door

6:09

and goes out on the wing, just

6:11

desperately trying to get out. So she

6:13

like actually turned the wings down so

6:15

it would give people a little bit

6:17

of a slide in case they sort

6:20

of needed that. And so, and then

6:22

the last thing she did before she

6:24

left the plane, and first of all

6:26

I should say, she landed the plane

6:28

successfully with no more injuries, and there's

6:30

some remarkable little bits to that of

6:32

how she was able to do that.

6:34

When you listen to her, could be

6:36

describing what she wants in her coffee

6:38

that morning. You know, she's so calm,

6:41

her voice is so steady, at one

6:43

point she says, we've lost an engine,

6:45

we have a hole in the plane,

6:47

and it appears someone has gone out.

6:49

And the, you know, our truck owner

6:51

was like, wait, wait, never mind, we'll

6:53

deal with that later, you know, like,

6:55

but she's just so calm and cool

6:57

and collected. And when she landed the

6:59

plane, the EMTs came to check her

7:01

out, the EMTs came to check her

7:04

out, first thing to check her out,

7:06

first thing to check her out, first

7:08

thing, first thing, first thing, first thing,

7:10

first thing, first thing, first thing, first

7:12

thing they did, first thing they did,

7:14

first thing they did, first thing they

7:16

did, first thing they did, first thing

7:18

they did, first thing they did, first

7:20

thing they did, first thing they did.

7:22

And she's like, wait, what are you,

7:25

what are you talking about? And he

7:27

said, how did your nerves of steel

7:29

not set off all the alarms at

7:31

security? Like you're so calm. If you

7:33

just measure your pulse, any other physiological

7:35

activity, like there, there's someone who did

7:37

not go through a crisis or a

7:39

deal. And then the final thing she

7:41

did before she left the plane, she

7:43

went row by row and met with

7:45

every passenger and just said, how are

7:48

you doing? Is there anything we can

7:50

do? There's a little girl. She's like,

7:52

you know, this has never happened before.

7:54

You're special. You got an experience. No

7:56

one else got. You know, and so

7:58

she just was very thoughtful. And then

8:00

there's one final thing she did, which

8:02

I think was really important is she

8:04

was black flying like three weeks later.

8:06

And she said, she did it partly

8:09

for herself, right? She wanted to get

8:11

back to the normalcy of everyday life,

8:13

but she also did it because she

8:15

wanted to show to other people. that

8:17

she wasn't afraid of flying and if

8:19

she's not afraid of flying they shouldn't

8:21

be afraid of flying either and so

8:23

she was that again that exemplar of

8:25

like presenting herself the way that she

8:27

wanted other people to be in the

8:30

world and I know there's a little

8:32

bit of a long answer but it's

8:34

great it's a great way to open

8:36

the book and we all want to

8:38

be that poised calm I come from

8:40

the world of sports where I played

8:42

quarterback and like having moxie and being

8:44

able to be cool under pressure when

8:46

the the limon are on top of

8:48

you and stand in and make the

8:50

throw is like a big part of

8:53

it. And so you learn through like

8:55

legitimate like fire. They're right on your

8:57

in your face. We want to be

8:59

that. But for those who say, well,

9:01

maybe she was just born that way.

9:03

Maybe that's just the way she is.

9:05

You know, Adam, like that's great. How.

9:07

But how can I be like that?

9:09

How can I be calm? How can

9:11

I have my heart rate not rise

9:14

when I'm landing a plane that literally

9:16

blew up in the air? What are

9:18

some ways to make this practical, the

9:20

practical application for maybe the more normal

9:22

person so they could implement some of

9:24

the things they've learned from that flight

9:26

from that pilot into their own lives?

9:28

Yeah, I'll say a couple things about

9:30

that. First of all is, I think

9:32

that is literally the heart. and the

9:34

essence of the book inspire, which is

9:37

that leaders aren't born, they are made,

9:39

right? And one of the things that

9:41

I've showed in my research, 20 years

9:43

of scientific research, right, is that there's

9:45

a set of practical steps that we

9:47

can take that over time will make

9:49

us more inspiring and less infuriating to

9:51

other people over time. And so one

9:53

of them is the more experience you

9:55

have, the better off you are. You

9:58

know, there's a reason why rookie quarterbacks

10:00

often, you know, I'm going to use

10:02

a phrase that's a little off. color

10:04

but shit the bed you know in

10:06

their first year Caleb Williams right number

10:08

one draft pick everyone said he's revolutionary

10:10

and and you know he's gonna be

10:12

defy the odds of the rookie quarterback

10:14

and you know there he is struggling

10:16

just like every other rookie quarterback on

10:19

the NBA even Peyton Manning and so

10:21

part of it is you need experience

10:23

but another which I think is equally

10:25

important is that we need to reflect

10:27

on our experiences and think about what

10:29

happened. And we need to use those

10:31

experience to plan more effectively for the

10:33

future. And so that's one of the

10:35

things that a quarterback can do, like

10:37

maybe they lose their, how they use

10:39

their footwork when they get under pressure.

10:42

So they can practice their footwork so

10:44

they know, okay, next time, if my

10:46

footwork's better, I'm going to handle that

10:48

better. And so that's like a This

10:50

is one of the most important ones

10:52

of all is I love speaking in

10:54

front of really large crowds now. So

10:56

put me in front of 500 people.

10:58

I'm even happier if it's a thousand

11:00

people. I like that experience now, but

11:03

like early on in my career, I

11:05

He did it dreaded it loathed it

11:07

with an unmitigated sense of fear and

11:09

passion like literally I felt like I

11:11

couldn't even use my fingers like how

11:13

do I do the you go to

11:15

the next slide if my hands are

11:17

shaking and I just felt so overwhelming.

11:19

And this is around like 2006, 2007,

11:21

so almost 20 years ago. But in

11:23

2003, I actually introduced into the scientific

11:26

literature a little essay. And the essay

11:28

was simply, and we were trying to

11:30

study the psychological effects of like sort

11:32

of having a sense of power, status,

11:34

you know, control. And one of the

11:36

things that we wanted to understand with

11:38

the psychological effects is, well, Ryan, if

11:40

I give you power and I put

11:42

you in the role of the boss,

11:44

you might act in certain ways just

11:47

because I expect you to act that

11:49

way. Or you maybe act that way

11:51

is because you have more things on

11:53

your mind and you're like your attention

11:55

is divided, right? And so we want

11:57

to know what like how is power

11:59

actually coursing through your blood? Like how

12:01

is it really affected you? And so

12:03

my colleagues Deb Grunfeld, Joe McGee and

12:05

I actually settled, this was actually 1999,

12:08

it published in 2003, but we ended

12:10

up settling on this idea of experiences

12:12

from their own life in which they

12:14

felt powerful. in control or their best

12:16

self, right? And then what they can

12:18

do is they can they can leverage

12:20

that authentic experience to do that. And

12:22

that's essentially I basically used my own

12:24

scientifically validated intervention, you know, on myself.

12:26

And I started to think about like,

12:28

you know, I know what I'm doing,

12:31

I've done this before, I can think

12:33

about the times where I did it

12:35

really well, I can see myself performing

12:37

well, and I could feel that confidence

12:39

literally, you know. take the anxiety and

12:41

push it away and instead of quarter's

12:43

all I had sort of positive adrenaline

12:45

and excitement and and I think that's

12:47

you know one of the one of

12:49

the ways that we can do that

12:52

so we can we can get into

12:54

the to the right mindset so like

12:56

you know before a Super Bowl right

12:58

a quarterback might think about you know

13:00

how well they performed in the AFC

13:02

championship game right as a way to

13:04

get them you know that I'll tell

13:06

you my favorite quarterback right now in

13:08

the world is Josh Allen was not

13:10

good under pressure when he was a

13:13

rookie. And he's I think one of

13:15

the best demonstrations of someone who really

13:17

learned over time how to be a

13:19

better quarterback. And like people were talking,

13:21

I mean, even in a second season,

13:23

I'm talking about what a failure he

13:25

was and what a colossal mistake it

13:27

was for the Buffalo Bills to have

13:29

drafted him. And now he's probably going

13:31

to win the MVP this year. We

13:33

were talking about, I believe, his confidence

13:36

in our and in the number of

13:38

people in this podcast has talked about

13:40

how to build that and that is

13:42

through creating evidence for yourself. Yep, yep,

13:44

you can't just shout affirmations in the

13:46

mirror, you have to create evidence for

13:48

yourself and what I hear you saying

13:50

Adam is that I think you have

13:52

to regularly put yourself in the position

13:54

to do something hard, do something challenging

13:57

and it almost doesn't matter what that

13:59

thing is because regardless, if you proved

14:01

yourself that you can do hard things

14:03

that is portable... to other areas of

14:05

your life. I did the improv class

14:07

so I can go do the triathlon

14:09

and one of them's mental, one of

14:11

them's physical, but both are hard. And

14:13

so I'm thinking of can you maybe

14:15

go a little deeper on why this

14:17

is so effective to regularly, the Navy

14:20

SEALs would say push your edges, why

14:22

it's so useful to regularly be banging

14:24

on those edges of your current zone

14:26

of comfort and competency because it's portable

14:28

to other areas of your life. Yeah,

14:30

I mean, what you said is sort

14:32

of, what was the phrase used I

14:34

really liked it about evidence to yourself?

14:36

Is that what you said? confidence needs

14:38

evidence. This comes from other guests. So

14:41

I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm,

14:43

but confidence needs evidence that you've done

14:45

hard things, but it doesn't have to

14:47

be the exact thing. You can, you

14:49

can say, well, I've done this hard

14:51

thing. So now I'm going to go

14:53

do this other completely different, but still

14:55

hard thing. I do this task in

14:57

my class where I get people eight

14:59

candidates for a kidney and I randomly

15:02

sign them to advocate for why one

15:04

of the candidates should receive it. And

15:06

one of the things that we show

15:08

in this research is that whoever they

15:10

advocate for also shoots up the list

15:12

in their mind. And it's not strategic.

15:14

It's not like I'm going to do

15:16

this so I can benefit. It's like

15:18

they feel more attached to that person.

15:20

But part of it is that. when

15:22

they think about how to persuade others,

15:25

they're actually persuading themselves because they're coming

15:27

up with evidence that's going to work.

15:29

And in some ways, what they're doing

15:31

is they're coming to the evidence that

15:33

also works for them. And I think

15:35

it's the same thing with experience, right,

15:37

is that we can we can use

15:39

in some ways we're always, you know,

15:41

psychologists like to use these words sometimes,

15:43

but like we're always both the object

15:46

and the subject of our own attention,

15:48

right? You know, in some ways we're

15:50

observing ourselves doing the things that we're

15:52

doing. I'll give you one example. It's

15:54

not in the, it's kind of in

15:56

the domain of leadership. So one of

15:58

the things I've talked a lot about

16:00

is how all the principles of leadership

16:02

can apply to being the exact same

16:04

thing my father did. just get so

16:06

mad at my kids when they were

16:09

having their tantrums and blah blah blah

16:11

and then I realized really quickly that

16:13

when I exploded it just it was

16:15

like they exploded like it was the

16:17

worst possible thing I could do you

16:19

know yeah if I use more force

16:21

all overcome their force but all I

16:23

did was create either you know terror

16:25

or more force and so I basically

16:27

said okay you know and this is

16:30

a good example one of the thing

16:32

I talk about in the book as

16:34

well it's good to think about the

16:36

inspiring characteristics of leaders in our lives,

16:38

but also the infuriating characteristics of the

16:40

leaders in our lives. And so my

16:42

dad is one of my heroes. He

16:44

inspires me so many ways. His fury

16:46

and his anger, like even penetrated my

16:48

nightmare as a kid, right? You know,

16:51

and that was like his one big

16:53

flaw. And so I was like, okay,

16:55

I'm not going to be like my

16:57

dad. And when I found myself as

16:59

every time that I was able to

17:01

stay calm, even when they were having

17:03

tantrums, I felt such a level of

17:05

pride in that accomplishment. And afterwards, I

17:07

would reflect that and be like, you

17:09

did it. Okay, next time you're going

17:11

to be able to do it again.

17:14

Right. And it's exactly that idea of

17:16

the evidence. And so they see them

17:18

having a tantrum and I'm like, I

17:20

know what I'm doing. I know exactly

17:22

what I have to do here. I

17:24

have to stay calm. That's the number

17:26

one goal that I have here. And

17:28

then if I do stay calm, I

17:30

do stay calm, I feel really good

17:32

about myself. We want to do better

17:35

the next time, but we also, if

17:37

we fail occasionally, we also don't want

17:39

to feel shame. And we can come

17:41

back to that later, but I've studied

17:43

the concept of shame and why shame

17:45

tends to be a particularly destructive emotion,

17:47

whereas guilt is a more constructive emotion.

17:49

And I know people say, oh, he

17:51

feels shame and guilt. Yeah, yeah. But

17:53

there are two separate things and they

17:55

have, you know, really important different consequences.

17:58

I did want to hit back one

18:00

more piece of the Tammy Joe story.

18:02

She did something actually before the flight

18:04

that I think helped prepare them for

18:06

the adverse situation they found themselves in,

18:08

which it's not always just about reacting

18:10

in the moment or responding. in the

18:12

moment. It's about what you do leading

18:14

up to the moments. Can you share

18:16

more about how she collectively found some

18:19

commonalities among her crew and the people

18:21

she was working with that helped? Yeah.

18:23

So one of the most fascinating things,

18:25

by the way, the first thing I

18:27

ever did in my research career was

18:29

I, the professor that I worked with

18:31

as a research system in 1990. Two,

18:33

if you can imagine how long ago

18:35

that was, had this incredible grant from

18:37

NASA to study cockpit crews and looking

18:40

at like, and this is even the

18:42

book, but it's like he studied, you

18:44

know, about when they make errors and

18:46

everything and he found this. I used

18:48

to open all of my lectures around

18:50

this example, which is that think of

18:52

like a 20-hour flight, you know, from

18:54

here to Singapore, where it's 19 hours,

18:56

or you know, like LA to Australia,

18:58

right? Chicago to, you know, Buenos Aires,

19:00

like when is the cockpit crew more

19:03

likely to have an air at the

19:05

beginning the flight or the end of

19:07

the flight? And everyone's like, oh, the

19:09

end of the flight, because they're tired,

19:11

or they're complacent, or they're complacent, or

19:13

they're complacent, is that in most cockpit

19:15

crews, they have never met each other

19:17

before. So they have no idea how

19:19

to work together. And it's only over

19:21

time, over the course of them being

19:24

inside this cockpit, that they start to

19:26

coordinate their behavior effectively. And so that

19:28

was also the case with Tammy Joe

19:30

Schultz. She had never met the flight

19:32

attendants before. And I'm not even sure

19:34

if she never met her copal before

19:36

she might not have. And they had.

19:38

It was fortunate. It was luck. They

19:40

had about 20 minutes of extra time

19:42

before the plane boarded. And so she

19:45

just chatted with them and started talking.

19:47

And she, one of the ways that

19:49

she started the process is she shared

19:51

a little bit about herself. She could

19:53

ask people questions, tell me about yourself,

19:55

but that's also a little awkward. And

19:57

she said, hey, you know, I just

19:59

want to get to know you all

20:01

a little better. I'm here's something I'm

20:03

going through right now. I have a

20:05

child that's about to graduate I'm about

20:08

to graduate from high school that's about

20:10

to graduate from high school. you know,

20:12

a good gift for them. And then

20:14

her first officer says, my kids graduating

20:16

from high school. too. I've been thinking

20:18

about the same thing. And then someone

20:20

mentioned, I just got this great gift.

20:22

I'm in this Bible group and we're

20:24

doing a study on songs. And then

20:26

Tammy just like, I'm doing a study

20:29

on songs and they start talking about

20:31

like what's their favorite passages in the

20:33

Bible and you know and so they

20:35

start having this conversation and they get

20:37

to know it know each other better.

20:39

There's this old company and I don't

20:41

even know if their song exists I

20:43

used to teach us 20 years ago

20:45

Ingersoll Rand and there's this great video

20:47

about how they used to take them

20:49

like 18 months to do no hand

20:52

grinder and a machine that grind things.

20:54

down. I don't know exactly that the

20:56

details aren't that important, but okay. Sorry.

20:58

No, no, no, some type of tool.

21:00

So that they made tools and they

21:02

and they needed to update their tool

21:04

to be a better tool. And usually

21:06

it would take them like two years

21:08

to do prototype and everything. And a

21:10

client gave them six months. And the

21:13

CEO says the single most important thing,

21:15

the transformative leadership thing that I did

21:17

that changed everything and made all this

21:19

possible was we had a pre-project barbecue

21:21

at my house. And you know, again,

21:23

like Tammy Churchill's talking to her people

21:25

and she's like, you know, we got

21:27

to, I got to meet people and

21:29

know their first names and they got

21:31

to relax and they got to come

21:34

to my house and they got to

21:36

see me in a natural environment. Now

21:38

there's a couple of things related to

21:40

leadership that they did is that they

21:42

actually put them. all the people working

21:44

on together. So they took marketing out

21:46

of marketing and put them here. They

21:48

even involved people from the factory floor

21:50

and moved so they created a real

21:52

team, a diverse team, but made them

21:54

cohesive by co-locating them. But this idea

21:57

that we forget that we are social

21:59

human beings that want to connect with

22:01

others and sometimes what's going to help

22:03

you in a crisis is, did you

22:05

have a coffee with that person before?

22:07

Did you go to their house for

22:09

a barbecue? Did you talk about something

22:11

deeper than the weather before your flight

22:13

took off? Like at the end of

22:15

the day, if we show that we

22:18

care and have love for one another,

22:20

regardless of what the task is, the

22:22

odds are better that we're gonna do

22:24

a better job. if that exists. And

22:26

some people I feel like think that's

22:28

the soft stuff. I get made fun

22:30

of for this at times when I

22:32

bring this up when I'm working with

22:34

leadership teams about how have you shown

22:36

that you care for each other, how

22:38

have you shown that you have love

22:41

for each other, what have you done

22:43

specifically to build those genuine relationships out

22:45

of curiosity at a desire to know

22:47

one another versus just saying look this

22:49

is the problem do it. And at

22:51

times they're like dude. We need to

22:53

skip over. We don't have time for

22:55

that. We need just need to get

22:57

to it. And I'm like, this is

22:59

it. This is it. You can't skip

23:02

the stuff because you think it's soft.

23:04

It's the real stuff. It's the human

23:06

element of solving problems, of solving problems,

23:08

of trying to do something, to do

23:10

something big that's really hard, of trying

23:12

to do something big that's really hard.

23:14

If you're doing it with other people,

23:16

I love that the science and the

23:18

research backsacks this up. Yeah, I mean,

23:20

team building is a real thing. Now,

23:23

team building doesn't work if you isolate

23:25

all of that care into this one

23:27

team building activity and it doesn't then

23:29

infiltrate the rest of your interactions. But

23:31

it's genuinely care. Yeah. Genuinely. Not just

23:33

looking for some outcome. I think that's

23:35

also part of maybe what happens is

23:37

you get a transactional style leader who

23:39

reads inspire or they listen to this

23:41

podcast to say, oh. they tell their

23:43

admin assistant, hey, book a barbecue, I'll

23:46

show up, I'll be there for it,

23:48

so I can kind of transactional show

23:50

that I care for my team, and

23:52

then they just go on to the

23:54

next thing. Like, it does have to

23:56

come from a genuine place, because we

23:58

probably all had a boss at times,

24:00

if you worked in corporate America, who

24:02

that it's been, I know I have,

24:04

I have the thought bubble right in

24:07

my head of this specific person, of

24:09

the transactional, check the box person as

24:11

opposed to the transformational, does care and

24:13

wants to do it the right way

24:15

and usually over the long term those

24:17

persons that person who genuinely cares their

24:19

outcomes are far better than the transactional

24:21

one. Absolutely you know and that's it's

24:23

a long-term investment and so you might

24:25

not even see that that positive effect

24:28

until years later but there's two things

24:30

that I've always talked about when I

24:32

teach about leadership and about investment in

24:34

other people is there's a term in

24:36

economics called Prado Optimality. And Prado Optimality

24:38

is like, there is no other better

24:40

approach to a problem than the one

24:42

you're taking, right? If you did anything

24:44

else differently, you would be on our,

24:46

you would be worse off. And investing

24:48

and in other people is the Prado

24:51

Optimal Solution because it is morally the

24:53

right thing to do. right, to be

24:55

kind of the people to invest in

24:57

that help them to grow, elevate people.

24:59

It's also in your long-term best interest

25:01

for doing so, right? And so, yeah,

25:03

yeah, long-term, right. And that's what the

25:05

heart of inspire, so I have in

25:07

my research, what I do is I

25:09

compare, I basically asked thousands of people

25:12

across the globe, a very simple question.

25:14

I just say, tell me about a

25:16

leader that inspires you. And I say,

25:18

you know, I want you to be

25:20

a scientist and I want you to

25:22

pinpoint, what was it about that person

25:24

that inspired you? Right? And people say,

25:26

you know, and ask them to describe,

25:28

what is that feeling of being inspired

25:30

like? And people use words like, you

25:32

know, warmth and light and energy or

25:35

one of the, someone used a phrase

25:37

that I still used today, which is

25:39

a wellspring of hope and possibility, right,

25:41

which I just think really just. But

25:43

capture that. But I also asked them

25:45

about another leader in their life, and

25:47

I've already sort of mentioned this person,

25:49

is tell me about a leader that

25:51

also changed you inside. And that's the

25:53

key, like leaders change us inside. But

25:56

this time, instead of creating that wellspring

25:58

of hope and possibility, they created a

26:00

seething cauldron of rage and resentment. Right.

26:02

And one of the things that I

26:04

found in my research is that those

26:06

inspired inferting leaders really exist on a

26:08

continuum. each other. So like just as

26:10

one, aspiring leader is courageous, infuriating leader

26:12

is cowardly, right? Inspiring leader sees the

26:14

big picture, inferting leader is sort of

26:17

lost in the weeds and pessimistic, right?

26:19

Inspiring leader is sort of generous versus,

26:21

you know, inferring leader is selfish. And

26:23

sometimes being infuriating, aggressive, using coercion, leading

26:25

by compliance, is actually, in the short

26:27

term, very efficient, very efficient, Right? You

26:29

want someone, I want my kid to

26:31

pick that thing up on the floor,

26:33

I yell out enough, they're going to

26:35

pick that thing up off the floor,

26:37

right? And so we get immediately rewarded.

26:40

by being infuriating sometimes, right? But we

26:42

start to create these sort of seeds

26:44

of infuriation that then start to grow

26:46

and fester and churn into resentment over

26:48

time. And sometimes that resentment eventually explodes.

26:50

And so we're kind of, you know,

26:52

Danny Kahneman is very famous, Nobel Prize

26:54

winning. He won the Nobel Prize economics.

26:56

His psychologist, he had this great phrase

26:58

about we are rewarded for punishing and

27:01

punished for rewarding, even though. rewarding people

27:03

is the far better long-term strategy, but

27:05

immediately the punishment seems to be the

27:07

better approach. And so we have to

27:09

like, in some ways, he part of

27:11

the book, one of the three universal

27:13

factors that really separate the inspiring for

27:15

leader is this concept called visionary and

27:17

seeing the big picture. And part of

27:19

what we have to do as a

27:21

leader, the big picture really is what's

27:24

going to lead to the best long-term

27:26

outcome. So I like this kind of

27:28

great boss. bad boss exercise have done

27:30

something similar what favorite boss best boss

27:32

worst boss all right let's list it

27:34

out list their qualities right so a

27:36

few of them that you mentioned the

27:38

best ones right inspiring ones they're courageous

27:40

through optimistic they're generous the the worst

27:42

ones are cowardly pessimistic selfish yeah I

27:45

feel like we all know that yet

27:47

we've probably all done chapters of our

27:49

lives in the wrong column, hopefully not

27:51

long chapters, but we probably all have.

27:53

So we know this, I think intuitively,

27:55

and you go deeper to help. Yet

27:57

if we know this, how do we

27:59

go more from understanding it to then

28:01

putting it into play to be the

28:03

inspiring leader, the inspiring boss for our

28:06

teams to be more courageous and optimistic

28:08

and generous as opposed to being cowardly,

28:10

pessimistic and selfish and Yeah, two things

28:12

I'll say about the first is that

28:14

the name of the book, right, is

28:16

inspire and the subheading is the universal

28:18

path for leading yourself and others. And

28:20

I use the word path very deliberately,

28:22

right? Which is like, in some ways,

28:24

there's this path between the inspired and

28:26

infuriating person, and you can walk in

28:29

this direction and walk in this direction.

28:31

But the second thing I think is

28:33

really important. If you look at this

28:35

path right now, it's like flat, right?

28:37

But what is life due to us?

28:39

Life tilts it towards the infuriating end

28:41

of the spectrum. And if you look

28:43

to see, when I ask, I do

28:45

another exercise people, I do another exercise

28:47

people. What were some of the precipitating

28:50

variables or factors? What was the contextual

28:52

things that led to me more infuriating?

28:54

And the first thing that almost everyone

28:56

brings up was, I was exhausted. I

28:58

was tired. Another one, I like to

29:00

show the Snickers commercial, Joe Peshi, goes

29:02

crazy, right? You know, it's supposed to

29:04

be a college kid, but it's Joe

29:06

Preshi screaming, yelling, because he's hungry, right?

29:08

Or, you know, when we get anxious

29:10

in a high-stakes situation. or we're in

29:13

a new situation. Or we got angry

29:15

at our spouse and then we take

29:17

it out as someone at the office.

29:19

People are more infuriating when they're in

29:21

novel situations that they've never been in

29:23

before. When people are yelling at us,

29:25

right, we start to yell at others.

29:27

And so that's something like tilting is

29:29

that like life pushes us towards the

29:31

infuriating end of the spectrum. So we

29:34

need to have ways. to tilt it

29:36

back, right? You know, and even to

29:38

tilt it this way. And I think

29:40

one of the things that you mentioned

29:42

evidence, which I think is a really

29:44

important thing, and we can use that

29:46

evidence, but another is, and a lot

29:48

of psychologists have talked about this, is,

29:50

you know, one of the single best

29:52

things we can do for ourselves is

29:55

build in habits, right, that make us

29:57

more inspiring. And, you know, a good

29:59

example is, I lost my teeth. then

30:01

I brush my teeth, then I use

30:03

mouthwash, and then I put in my

30:05

retainer from, you know, when I had

30:07

braces. And my wife does not floss

30:09

as much as she should. And she's

30:11

been told the dentist, you're at risk

30:13

of developing cavities. And I just keep

30:15

telling her, just build it in as

30:18

a habit. Like any time you want

30:20

to brush your teeth, floss, make yourself

30:22

floss first. And then eventually, if you

30:24

don't floss, you're going to feel naked.

30:26

Like God, I feel like I'm being

30:28

trapped. And then if they get used

30:30

to it, they don't put on a

30:32

seat ball. They're like, oh my God,

30:34

I'm going to fly out the window.

30:36

That's the changing of a habit. And

30:39

so what did I think the important

30:41

things is develop habits? I'll tell you

30:43

two things about that. So I was

30:45

delivering a lecture once about this, and

30:47

I always give people this like, the

30:49

leader amplification amplification effect call to action.

30:51

I can tell you more about that

30:53

in a second. I can tell you

30:55

more about that in a second. I

30:57

can tell you more about that. I

31:00

can tell you more about that. I

31:02

can tell you more about that. I

31:04

can tell you more about that. I

31:06

can tell you more about that. I

31:08

can tell you more about that. I

31:10

can tell you more. I can tell

31:12

you more. I can tell you more.

31:14

I can tell you more. I can

31:16

tell you more. I can tell you

31:18

more. I can tell you more. I

31:20

can tell you more. I can tell

31:23

who have less power than your organization

31:25

and send them an email praising them

31:27

for something they did really well recently

31:29

or thanking them for their contribution in

31:31

some way. And I say, you know,

31:33

be specific. So it's genuine, right, because

31:35

it's infuriating when it's not authentic. And

31:37

I did this once with a group

31:39

of CEOs, right? 50 COs in the

31:41

room, at 1015, we're taking a break

31:44

at 1030. 1028 when the COs raises

31:46

raises hands, says, I already set all

31:48

my three. emails. I've already got three

31:50

emails back. They were like, oh my

31:52

God, thank you so much. One of

31:54

them, it was a Friday when I

31:56

wrote, I'm finally to take my spouse

31:58

to that restaurant, the new restaurant they

32:00

always wanted to go to. And I

32:02

like this story for two reasons. One

32:04

is I've done research and I've shown

32:07

that, remember I talked about how does

32:09

power affect people? Power basically frees the

32:11

reins and makes us impulsive. So power

32:13

actually shifts us towards the inferiority end

32:15

of the spectrum because we don't pay

32:17

as much attention other people. And so

32:19

this guy could have waited to the

32:21

break rather than not listening to not

32:23

listening to the break rather than not

32:25

listening to listening to listening. And so

32:28

I was telling the story once in

32:30

a president of a bank, Joseph Stigliano,

32:32

he's got 1,400 employees. I think it's

32:34

1,200 or 1,200. I can't remember exactly

32:36

that number, but somewhere in that range.

32:38

I know it's over a thousand. And

32:40

he said, oh yeah, I built this

32:42

into a daily habit. And I was

32:44

like, tell me more. He says, every

32:47

morning over my cup of coffee, I send

32:49

an email to every one of my employees who

32:51

has a birthday that day that day. And

32:53

takes me about 10 minutes. Wait, let's

32:55

calculate. She's like, that's like

32:58

five emails a day every day of the

33:00

year. He said, yep. And then he said,

33:02

he ford me. He said, I'll show you

33:04

one of my emails. So he said, hey,

33:06

let's say, hey Ryan, happy birthday. How did

33:08

bowling and track go last week? That's it.

33:11

It's one sentence. And then he showed me

33:13

the response that came back from the person.

33:15

It was like a novel. Oh, let me

33:17

tell you all about bowling. I did this.

33:19

I did the split. You know, blah, blah.

33:21

I don't even know if you've read the

33:23

email, right? But like, they were so excited

33:25

to A.B. wished happy birthday by the president

33:28

of the bank, but he knew something

33:30

about that person. He knew they like

33:32

bowling, you know. And so obviously requires

33:34

some setup. And he's like, he's like,

33:36

I can't drink my coffee without doing

33:38

it now. Like it's just like, I'd

33:40

be like, what am I doing with

33:42

this coffee without sending my emails? And

33:44

so, you know, how do we send

33:46

that daily habit? Now, I was telling

33:48

this in another time, and a CEO said,

33:50

actually I do that. And I said, well,

33:53

tell me more what you do. And he

33:55

says, every single day over coffee, I do

33:57

the same thing. I just picked one person.

34:00

I tried to elevate them in some

34:02

way. And he said something at the

34:04

end that really, really resonated with me.

34:06

And this gets back to Prado Optimality.

34:08

He says, you know what? My email

34:10

would say, hey, Ryan, that podcast you

34:12

did last week, you hit it out

34:14

in the park. I loved it. He

34:16

said, I just put a skip in

34:18

their step. But he says, Ryan's going

34:20

to send me back in email. And

34:23

Ryan's going to be, oh my God,

34:25

thank you so much Adam, like that

34:27

means so much to me. by sending

34:29

out this praise, like I'm actually elevating

34:31

myself because like I get so much

34:33

joy from their responses. He said, and

34:35

this was really changed me because you

34:37

know people say face-to-face communication, always communicate

34:39

in thing. And he had this great

34:41

response. He said, look, if I praised

34:43

Ryan to his face, Ryan would kind

34:46

of feel a little embarrassed. You're like,

34:48

oh, thanks, man. And then it's kind

34:50

of awkward. Do we hug now? Like

34:52

what happens, you know, but if I

34:54

do it over email. Two things are

34:56

beneficial. One is Ryan gets the favorite.

34:58

Ryan can go back and read it.

35:00

He can, Ryan can send it to

35:02

his best friend, significant other, his parents.

35:04

But I get that email back, right?

35:06

And I'm going to get a much

35:08

more positive response if I do to

35:11

Ryan in over email. Like the other

35:13

day, I got a text from a

35:15

student who just accepted a job at

35:17

Harvard. So she just got a job

35:19

at Harvard and been working with her

35:21

for five years. And she just wrote

35:23

this incredibly nice text to me that

35:25

was like, I couldn't have done it

35:27

without you. And I was with a

35:29

postdoc who just got a job at

35:31

University of Pennsylvania, another job. And he

35:34

was like, I just got a job

35:36

at University of Pennsylvania, another job. And

35:38

he was like, I just want to

35:40

say, I feel so awkward hearing it

35:42

in person, I was so overjoyed by

35:44

it. I was so overjoyed by it,

35:46

I was so overjoyed by it, like

35:48

over, like, like, like, like, like, like,

35:50

like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

35:52

like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

35:54

like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

35:57

like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

35:59

like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

36:01

like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

36:03

me approval to use this name. I

36:05

don't have the approval from the CEO

36:07

that I mentioned earlier to use his

36:09

name in the story, but both of

36:11

them. same thing. They're doing something over

36:13

their coughing that elevates someone in their

36:15

orbit, but by doing that they also

36:17

get elevated themselves. Well it also changes

36:20

their default setting to be looking for

36:22

moments of greatness. I have a few

36:24

friends who do this really well. Brooke

36:26

Cups does this with his basketball team

36:28

where after practice and games They have

36:30

a set of core values and the

36:32

team goes into the meeting and they

36:34

say it's called moments of greatness where

36:36

each player has to recognize moments of

36:38

greatness for others. And so they know

36:40

that they're going to be asked this

36:43

question so they're always looking. for their

36:45

teammates living up to their core values.

36:47

Another friend of my name, Rob Kimball,

36:49

who runs a company, he's a CEO

36:51

and owner of 800 plus people, their

36:53

executive team meets once a week and

36:55

they open each meeting with every member

36:57

of the exact team writing a thank

36:59

you note to somebody at the company

37:01

who lives up to their company core

37:03

values. And so that's happening 52 times

37:06

a year where those people, roughly 12

37:08

people a week, are getting a thank

37:10

you note. and it almost shifts the

37:12

default setting for each of those members

37:14

of the executive team to be on

37:16

the lookout for people doing great things

37:18

so they're always looking because they know

37:20

they're writing this note on Tuesdays and

37:22

so it just it just almost changes

37:24

the way you view the world instead

37:26

of being pessimistic or looking for people

37:29

doing bad things not that doesn't happen

37:31

because you do have to correct things

37:33

that aren't good but they're looking for

37:35

people doing it great for living up

37:37

to their values and I think that

37:39

makes them a more inspiring leader that

37:41

makes them on the end of the

37:43

spectrum where you want to be versus

37:45

the one who's upset all the time

37:47

or pessimistic or looking for people who

37:49

are doing it wrong. You're totally right

37:52

and I think there's a lot to

37:54

be learned from leadership in sports teams

37:56

because it's high performing and it's complex

37:58

there's lots of team dynamics going on

38:00

and that's where you really learn what

38:02

it means to be leader. Columbia football

38:04

coach who retired from health reasons but

38:06

when he came in Columbia hadn't won

38:08

a game in over two seasons. is

38:10

one of the longest losing streaks in

38:12

the history of Columbia. And this is

38:15

when I was here. I arrived in

38:17

Columbia 2012. And Coach Magnolia came in.

38:19

He'd been one of the winning his

38:21

coaches. He had retired, but then he

38:23

was brought out of retirement to do

38:25

this. Their first year, they won three

38:27

games. And then he retired just last

38:29

year, but the coach that took over.

38:31

They were the first time in their

38:33

history tied for the Ivy League championship,

38:35

or first time in 60 years, I

38:38

think it is. Something just incredible. And

38:40

he did lots of different things. the

38:42

transform of the team. But he said

38:44

something to me that I still remember

38:46

to this day, which is, he says,

38:48

here's the single biggest decision that I

38:50

have to make as a leader each

38:52

year, is who can I yell at?

38:54

Because sometimes people mess up and you

38:56

got to say, that wasn't the right

38:58

thing. And we need this habit instead

39:01

of that habit. We got to go

39:03

this way instead of that way. And

39:05

sometimes you got to do it strongly.

39:07

You got to do it strongly. You

39:09

got to do it forcefully. And you

39:11

got to this. whole team gets on

39:13

board. And so he said, and so

39:15

I don't know if you saw it

39:17

at the beginning of the year, Steve

39:19

Kerr for the Golden State Warriors preached

39:21

from training camp day one, fewer turnovers,

39:24

fewer turnovers, fewer turnovers. We cannot win.

39:26

We can't do what we did when

39:28

we. we're the most talented team and

39:30

we could throw crazy passes behind our

39:32

back and throw them into the stands.

39:34

That's okay because we're gonna, we're better

39:36

than they are. And it was like

39:38

the fourth or fifth game of the

39:40

year and Steph Curry threw some crazy

39:42

pass from one of the court to

39:44

the other. It got stolen and they

39:47

got an easy three pointer like three

39:49

seconds later and Steve her called a

39:51

timeout and just was like, and obviously

39:53

became a huge topic of conversation afterwards.

39:55

And he's like, look, we have a

39:57

value. we're pre-step by from day one

39:59

and our most important player violated that

40:01

value and I had to let him

40:03

know that he can't do that but

40:05

I also knew that he could handle

40:07

it right and like every come. I

40:10

like Steve Curry didn't get upset. He

40:12

didn't pout, he didn't act. He's like,

40:14

you're right, I shouldn't throw that pass,

40:16

you know, and I'll do better next

40:18

time. I think that's high levels of

40:20

emotional intelligence. I remember my offensive coordinator,

40:22

Ron Ollery, pulling me aside after my

40:24

junior year, going into my senior year

40:26

with a very talented team. And he

40:28

said, look, the guys need to see

40:30

me publicly ripping you. They need to

40:33

see it because if they see me

40:35

ripping you the kind of the guy

40:37

of scholarship type of guy all this

40:39

stuff if they see me doing it

40:41

to you in public they know I

40:43

can do it to anybody and so

40:45

just so you know I'm going to

40:47

do that and I need to do

40:49

that for the betterment of this team

40:51

I want to make sure you're aware.

40:53

you're on board it's not fake it's

40:56

gonna be real i'm not gonna do

40:58

it just to do it i'm gonna

41:00

do it when you make a mistake

41:02

but i'm gonna rip you in front

41:04

of your peers in front of your

41:06

guys yeah so they know if i

41:08

can do it to him i can

41:10

do it to anybody and i i

41:12

never forgotten that one-on-one it was like

41:14

ten minute conversation before it happened and

41:16

he definitely did it regularly and I

41:19

felt like he brought me in. I

41:21

felt like we had this deeper relationship

41:23

of trust. And I was like, not

41:25

that I was like in on this

41:27

little tool, because I definitely felt bad

41:29

when he was ripping me because I

41:31

messed up or threw a pig or

41:33

did something stupid, but it was like.

41:35

As a leader, I just thought that

41:37

was such a smart move, such an

41:39

astute thing for somebody to bring me

41:42

in. And I think it helped our

41:44

team in general because then he would

41:46

rip other guys too and they knew,

41:48

well, hey, everybody gets this. That's just

41:50

the way, that's the way it is

41:52

on this team and that's how our

41:54

coach operates. Yeah, I think, I think

41:56

I'm going to come back to where

41:58

I've used already once and I've called

42:00

it the, you know, one of the

42:02

three core universal factors and we can.

42:05

Right. And so that's part of what

42:07

it is. I'm going to share with

42:09

you a story right now that I've

42:11

never, I've never shared before on a

42:13

podcast or anywhere before, but it's a

42:15

good example of how the effect when

42:17

you don't show. the vision, but also

42:19

about picking the right person. When I

42:21

came up, so when you're at a

42:23

university, about in your six-year usually, you

42:25

come up for what's called tenure. And

42:28

if you get tenure, you have a

42:30

lifetime appointment for like the next 30

42:32

years. That is guaranteed income. You know,

42:34

that is your life is about as

42:36

good as you can be of any

42:38

job in the world, right? And I

42:40

was coming up for my mid-tenure review

42:42

at Northwestern University. but I had been

42:44

at another university before, so I was

42:46

in my six year post PhD. So

42:48

in some ways, it would have been

42:51

the normal time that I might have

42:53

come up for tenure if I just

42:55

started right at Northwestern. And my department

42:57

voted enthusiastically to recommend me for tenure.

42:59

And when you come for tenure, your

43:01

packet, then your research gets sent out

43:03

to about 10 to 15 people out

43:05

in the world who evaluated and make

43:07

a recommendation. And I got emails from

43:09

multiple of these people saying, hey, I

43:11

got your packet for your mid tenure

43:14

review. but I said, you should totally

43:16

tend to this person and he deserves

43:18

tenure. So I go into my meeting

43:20

with the deans where I'm thinking I'm

43:22

getting tenure. My departments told me they

43:24

want me get tenure outside. People told

43:26

me I want to get tenure and

43:28

I didn't get tenure. I got promoted

43:30

to untenured associate but not to a

43:32

tendered position. And it was unbelievably shocking

43:34

and I asked for explanations and I

43:37

was getting poor, like inconsistent responses back.

43:39

Anyway, so I leave. I leave the

43:41

dean's office, I go in the stairwell,

43:43

and I cry. Probably cry for about

43:45

10, 15 minutes. I mean, I was

43:47

so shocked and overwhelmed. I go upstairs,

43:49

my department has a cake for me,

43:51

says congratulations. And I just look at

43:53

them in the eye, and I just

43:55

look at them in the eye, and

43:57

I'm like, it didn't happen. And I

44:00

go into my office, close the door,

44:02

and they of course run downstairs to

44:04

the dean's, and I said, absolutely, come

44:06

on in. And he actually told me

44:08

what happened with you. He said, look,

44:10

this mid-tenure thing has been causing us

44:12

so many problems because people come in

44:14

and they're like, this person got early

44:16

tenure, why am I not getting early

44:18

tenure? And he basically said, we kind

44:20

of wanted to reset the bar. And

44:23

you had one of the best records

44:25

we've seen at that point. It was

44:27

like, well, if we don't give Adam

44:29

early tenure, then no one else is

44:31

going to ask for it. Now, the

44:33

difference is they didn't share that vision

44:35

with me in advance, right? And explained

44:37

it afterwards. Now, he also said something

44:39

he said, I took a calculated risk.

44:41

go off half-cocked and like you know

44:43

and he was right and I was

44:46

like yeah I get it you know

44:48

I'm not happy about it but like

44:50

and three years later I got a

44:52

full professor tendered offer from Harvard and

44:54

I said no and I stayed at

44:56

Northwestern when so he was right like

44:58

he made a good calculation you know

45:00

pick the right person to yell at

45:02

you know or to not give the

45:04

greatest reward to he's like look we

45:06

have so much confidence in you I

45:09

think you know we know you're going

45:11

to get tenure in three years. Some

45:13

people think you already deserve tenure. And

45:15

I get it. I think, yeah, I

45:17

love what I do. I'm not going

45:19

to change my behavior. But I think

45:21

the difference between what happened to you

45:23

and what happened to me is you

45:25

were given the vision. You were brought

45:27

into the vision. Eventually, it was, but

45:29

it was after the fact, after I

45:32

already had this emotional reaction. And I

45:34

think it just comes back to something

45:36

so fundamental and so fundamental and so

45:38

fundamental that we said the very beginning,

45:40

she didn't just fly the plane well.

45:42

She told the passengers what she was

45:44

doing. We're not going down, we're going

45:46

to Philly, right? And that was like

45:48

without those 10 words, without if this

45:50

person had yelled at you, without telling

45:52

you that they're going to do that

45:55

and why they're going to do that,

45:57

you would have a very different reaction

45:59

for it. And so I think letting

46:01

people in on your vision is critical.

46:03

And one of the things I talk

46:05

about in the book is that sometimes

46:07

we're really good at letting our Second

46:09

in command over vision, but not the

46:11

wider organization like people want to know

46:13

why they're doing what they're doing Visionary

46:15

is an interesting term you hear like

46:18

Visionary integrator in this EO system I've

46:20

had Geno Wickman on to talk all

46:22

about that stuff with the book Traction

46:24

and I feel like this is a

46:26

personal question Adam that I am like

46:28

a plotter I am a put my

46:30

head down and do the next thing

46:32

in front of me and then the

46:34

next thing and I and one of

46:36

my core values is consistency and I

46:38

do have the skill to consistently do

46:41

the work every day that's how this

46:43

podcast has never missed the Sunday in

46:45

a decade I've never missed the mindful

46:47

Monday in that amount of time as

46:49

well like no matter what like sickness

46:51

travel I can do that. but the

46:53

visionary stuff of like thinking long term

46:55

of like what is the what's happening

46:57

with the learning leader in five to

46:59

ten years what's your plan i'm like

47:01

i don't know i'm gonna keep doing

47:04

this i'm gonna keep following my curiosity

47:06

and having smart people like Adam on

47:08

the show and ask them questions and

47:10

try to be a good listener and

47:12

ask follow-up questions what are like some

47:14

of the the tools or the ways

47:16

for those of us who are the

47:18

plotters who are the consistent get to

47:20

work everyday type people who don't always

47:22

pick their head up and look down

47:24

the road five years how can we

47:27

become better visionaries what can we do?

47:29

Yeah I think the word visionary and

47:31

the way that I find it in

47:33

the book is like big picture optimistic

47:35

vision in the future that simplified and

47:37

visualized and repeated right and so really

47:39

what it what it is is it's

47:41

just putting a context for your behavior,

47:43

right? So here's one question that you

47:45

might ask yourself, what it means to

47:47

be visionary is like, why is consistency

47:50

so important to you? Like, consistency is

47:52

the value, but what's the purpose of

47:54

that value? Just in some ways, instead

47:56

of saying thinking long term, I would

47:58

say thinking broader big picture. Right? As

48:00

a good example of, I'll give you

48:02

an example that we're experienced right now

48:04

in our own life, is we've been

48:06

very fortunate in my life. I have

48:08

two young kids, seven and eight. My

48:10

mother and my wife's mother came to

48:13

the hospital when my son was born

48:15

and helped out and essentially never left.

48:17

So she's lived off for eight years.

48:19

and now she's leaving. She's going to

48:21

go, she's moving out to Las Vegas,

48:23

create a new chapter in her life,

48:25

and my older son is so attached

48:27

to her. We had two kids, you

48:29

know, essentially 14 months apart, so we

48:31

really needed all hands on deck, and

48:33

so like my wife was, you know,

48:36

taking care of breastfeeding, the younger one,

48:38

Lola and I were really taking care

48:40

of the older one, so he's Lola

48:42

is the Tagalog work for grandmother, my

48:44

wife is, is, is Filipino, Filipino, Filipino,

48:46

but Filipino. And about three weeks ago,

48:48

my son just started being really mean

48:50

to his mom, to my wife. Just

48:52

like, you know, I don't want you

48:54

to be near me, get away from

48:56

me, blah, blah, blah. And this is

48:59

a good example where the big picture

49:01

really matters. He's mad that Lola's leaving.

49:03

He can't express anger towards Lola. In

49:05

fact, he and his grandmother have never

49:07

thought, right? She's a safety valve, right?

49:09

She's a safety valve, right? he can't

49:11

express anger this person, he's displacing that

49:13

anger to my wife. And I keep

49:15

saying, you can't take it personally, because

49:17

you've got to see the big picture.

49:19

What is going on here? You're a

49:22

safe person that he can express this

49:24

to. So rather than thinking, he's being

49:26

mean to me thinking, I'm so one

49:28

that he can be mad at, and

49:30

so that he can deal with the

49:32

loss that his grandmother's moving to their

49:34

place. And so part of it when

49:36

I say visionary, it's just contextualizing, you

49:38

know. Why is consistency matter important to

49:40

you? Why do you do the podcast

49:42

every single week? Well, what's the larger

49:45

thing that you're trying to accomplish, which

49:47

is you're trying to help everyone in

49:49

this world be a better leader. And

49:51

if they're a better leader, they're going

49:53

to make someone else's life's better. And

49:55

then that person's going to make someone

49:57

else's better. So the bigger picture is,

49:59

you know, by being consistent. broader goal

50:01

is by being consistent and giving people

50:03

the opportunity to learn, and that creates

50:05

the potential for everyone to be better

50:08

off. I appreciate that. I like how

50:10

you close the book and I wanted

50:12

to ask you about that and that's

50:14

the story about the great Gatsby and

50:16

your parents, specifically your dad. And I

50:18

know you gave this salutation speech at

50:20

your high school graduation about this as

50:22

well. Can you talk more about your

50:24

dad and the great Gatsby and how

50:26

that's impacted you? Yeah, sure. One of

50:28

the things I mentioned my dad and

50:31

I mentioned his anger earlier, but one

50:33

of the things that really connects me

50:35

to my dad is he loved both

50:37

fiction and movies. And so we used

50:39

to like watch movies and fiction and

50:41

talk about. I remember We saw the

50:43

movie Brazil when I was in high

50:45

school, the Terry Gilliam film, and we

50:47

just had these long deep conversations about

50:49

what the movie meant. And so he

50:51

really loved the Great Gasp, and he

50:54

loved the last page. And for those

50:56

who don't remember, it's the main narrator

50:58

thinking about Gaspi. He had this house

51:00

across the river from the woman that

51:02

he always loved. And there is sort

51:04

of a green light on the end

51:06

of her dock. And so he's thinking

51:08

about how every day Gaspi could look

51:10

out of this green light. the thing

51:12

that mattered most of him was. But

51:14

also how the green light was a

51:16

motivator and inspire for him, like the

51:19

thing that kept him going. And there's

51:21

a hopefulness to it, there's an optimism

51:23

to it. And so my dad just

51:25

loved this. And so in my, I

51:27

was salutatorium, I got to give a

51:29

speech and I sort of talked about

51:31

the green light in there. And I

51:33

bring it up at the end of

51:35

the book because I also talk about

51:37

the both inspiring aspects of my dad.

51:39

But I end the book by saying

51:42

this, is that here's the thing about

51:44

my parents, that both my mom and

51:46

my dad, that most inspired me, is

51:48

they weren't perfect, but they try to

51:50

be better today than they were yesterday,

51:52

and they wanted to be better tomorrow

51:54

than they were today. And there's just

51:56

this level of just belief in self-improvement,

51:58

the belief that we could fall off

52:00

the horse, but we could always get

52:02

back on and try to find a

52:05

better way to ride the horse tomorrow.

52:07

And I think it's really interesting, my

52:09

wife lived in Japan for two years,

52:11

and there's a term in Japan called

52:13

Kaizan, called continual improvement, right? This idea

52:15

that were always improving. If you remember,

52:17

Glenn Gray, Glenn Ross, you know, always

52:19

be selling, you know, that foreigners always

52:21

be improving, right? Always, just all you

52:23

can do in life is improve, right?

52:25

And you can't ask for anything more

52:28

from anyone in the world is, all

52:30

I want to do is try to

52:32

be a little bit better. podcaster today

52:34

than when you're a story. A little

52:36

bit better writer tomorrow than you were

52:38

today. Like whatever it is that you're

52:40

working on, just try to do a

52:42

little better the next time. So good

52:44

man. The book is called Inspire, the

52:46

universal path for leading yourself and others.

52:48

It's amazingly well-written and crafted, great stories,

52:51

great science, really good practical application. You

52:53

got it all. Adam, thank you so

52:55

much for being here, man. It

53:00

is the end of the podcast

53:03

club. Thank you for being a

53:05

member of the end of the

53:07

podcast club If you are send

53:09

me a note Ryan at learning

53:12

leader.com. Let me know what you

53:14

learned from this great conversation with

53:16

Adam Galinsky a few takeaways from

53:18

my notes 10 words We are

53:21

not going down. We are going

53:23

to Philly. The composure of Pilot

53:25

Tammy Joe Schultz after the side

53:27

of her airplane exploded and somebody

53:30

fell out. Leadership is needed most

53:32

when things go bad. How do

53:34

you respond when adversity strikes? Those

53:36

are the moments when we must

53:39

be prepared to share the vision.

53:41

and help our team stay the

53:43

course. Then the 1992 cockpit study

53:45

of pilots. Did more errors happen

53:48

at the beginning or the end

53:50

of a 19-hour flight? We all

53:52

would assume it would be the

53:54

end. because of sheer time and

53:57

exhaustion. However, more errors happen at

53:59

the beginning of the flight because

54:01

the crews don't know each other

54:03

yet. So how does this translate

54:06

to your team? It's imperative to

54:08

genuinely care and get to know

54:10

the people on your team. Host

54:12

barbecue parties, ask questions and genuinely

54:15

learn about the people you're leading.

54:17

Those are not soft skills. Those

54:19

are essential. Those are essential. Those

54:21

are essential. skills. Now what did

54:24

Adam learn from his parents and

54:26

the great Gatsby? This idea of

54:28

Kaisen, which is a Japanese business

54:30

philosophy that promotes continuous improvement through

54:33

small incremental changes. Kaisen means good

54:35

change or change for the better

54:37

or improvement. And I'd ask you,

54:39

what are you intentionally doing to

54:42

ensure that you'll be better tomorrow

54:44

than you are today? Once again,

54:46

I would say thank you so

54:48

much for continuing to spread the

54:51

message and telling a friend or

54:53

two Hey, you should listen to

54:55

this episode of the Learning Leader

54:57

show with Adam Galinsky I think

55:00

he'll help you become a more

55:02

effective leader and because you continue

55:04

to do that and you also

55:06

go to Apple podcast and Spotify

55:09

and you subscribe to the show

55:11

and you're rated hopefully five stars

55:13

and you write a thoughtful review

55:15

and by doing all of that

55:18

You are regularly giving me the

55:20

opportunity to do what I love

55:22

on a daily basis and for

55:24

that I will forever be grateful.

55:27

Thank you so, so much. Talker

55:29

soon. Can I wait?