0:00

Welcome back to the Messie podcast. I'm

0:02

so happy to have you here. As

0:04

always, don't forget to visit the Messie

0:06

podcast.com. You can become a member there,

0:08

you know, and support what we do.

0:10

And while you're at it, check out

0:12

some of our other deep dive on

0:14

everything from the best books to Netflix

0:16

series to fascinating biographies. We're jumping right

0:18

into season three today, which is all

0:20

about your relationships and the Let Them

0:22

theory. This episode is all about a

0:24

topic. I know a lot of us

0:26

struggle with how to In this episode, we're

0:28

calling it motivating other people to change,

0:30

unlock the power of your influence. We

0:32

all know that feeling. Wanting someone we

0:35

care about to make a change. But how

0:37

do we do it without all the nagging

0:39

or the guilt trips? And how do we

0:41

do it in a way that actually works?

0:43

That's what we're diving into today. We're going

0:45

to be looking at a really cool concept

0:47

called social contagion. and how we can actually

0:49

use it to inspire positive change in other

0:52

people's lives. So what exactly is social contagion

0:54

and how does it tie into our desire

0:56

to see others change? It's this fascinating

0:58

idea that we subconsciously influence each other's

1:00

behavior. You know, like how you might

1:02

suddenly crave a salad after seeing a

1:04

friend enjoying one or feel like going

1:07

for a run when your partner does

1:09

it regularly. It's almost like an invisible

1:11

pull. Okay, so that makes sense. But

1:13

how does that actually translate into motivating

1:16

someone to make a real... lasting change.

1:18

What's the mechanism there? Research shows

1:20

that consistently seeing someone engage

1:22

in a positive behavior can

1:24

actually motivate others to adopt

1:26

that behavior themselves. Let's take a

1:29

quick breather for a message from

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month long. That

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was quick. Now, back to the

1:49

conversation. It's subtle, but powerful.

1:51

Think about your own life. Have you

1:53

ever noticed yourself picking up habits

1:55

from people you spend time with?

1:57

You know, now that you mention it...

2:00

I actually started drinking more water

2:02

because my roommate always had a

2:04

water bottle with her. I never

2:06

even realized I was being influenced.

2:08

Exactly. It often happens beneath our

2:10

awareness. And that brings us to

2:12

a really important point, modeling the

2:14

change we want to see in

2:16

others. It's the walk the talk

2:18

principle in action. Instead of just

2:20

telling someone what to do, you're

2:22

showing them. So instead of lecturing

2:24

my partner about eating healthier, I

2:26

should be making healthy choices myself.

2:28

Precisely. And it taps into the

2:30

other person's intrinsic motivation. They feel

2:32

empowered to make the change on

2:34

their own, rather than feeling pressured

2:36

or controlled. Okay, I'm starting to

2:39

see how this all fits together,

2:41

but let's get practical here. Is

2:43

there a specific framework we can

2:45

use to harness this power of

2:47

influence in our relationships? Absolutely. There's

2:49

a three-step framework I call the

2:51

ABC loop that combines evidence-based techniques

2:53

with the core principles of the

2:55

Let Them theory, which will explore

2:57

in depth. ABC loop. I like

2:59

it. Tell me more. What does

3:01

each step involve? The first step

3:03

A stands for apologize and ask.

3:05

We're going to tap into a

3:07

technique called motivational interviewing where we

3:09

ask open-ended questions to help the

3:11

other person see the gap between

3:13

their aspirations and their current actions.

3:15

So instead of telling them what

3:17

they should do, we're guiding them

3:19

towards self-reflection. Exactly. It's about creating

3:21

a safe space for honest conversation.

3:24

You might start by apologizing for

3:26

any past pressure or judgment you've

3:28

put on them. which sets a

3:30

more understanding tone. I can see

3:32

how starting with an apology would

3:34

make a difference. It immediately takes

3:36

the pressure off and shows that

3:38

you're coming from a place of

3:40

empathy. Right, and then you follow

3:42

up with open-ended questions. Let's say

3:44

you're concerned about your friend's spending

3:46

habits. You could ask, how are

3:48

you feeling about your finances these

3:50

days? Or, what are your financial

3:52

goals right now? These questions encourage

3:54

self-discovery, not external pressure. So it's

3:56

about helping them connect their actions

3:58

with their values and aspirations, without

4:00

forcing our opinions on them. That

4:02

makes a lot of sense. It

4:04

is powerful. And it's important to

4:06

remember that change is a process.

4:08

You're planting seeds of awareness that

4:11

need time to grow, which leads

4:13

us to step B, back off

4:15

and observe. Hold on, back off

4:17

and observe. That sounds tough, especially

4:19

when we care so much. It's

4:21

about patience. Think about your water

4:23

bottle example. Your roommate's influence wasn't

4:25

instant, right? It took time. It

4:27

did take time. At first, I

4:29

just thought it was interesting that

4:31

she always had water with her.

4:33

But eventually, it just started to

4:35

feel like the normal thing to

4:37

do. That's a good point. It's

4:39

like those seeds you mentioned, taking

4:41

root and eventually sprouting. Exactly. So

4:43

with Backoff and Observe, we resist

4:45

the urge to pressure or expert

4:47

immediate change. We focus on consistently

4:49

modeling the behavior and trust that

4:51

the other person will eventually feel

4:53

that pull of positive influence. So

4:56

we're letting go of control and

4:58

creating an environment that encourages change.

5:00

Hang tight. We'll be back right

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after this short break. See in

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Atlasian.com. Thanks

6:00

for waiting. Let's pick up where we

6:02

left off. But what about when we start

6:04

to see those little wins? How do

6:06

we acknowledge progress in a way

6:08

that reinforces the change? That's where Step

6:11

C comes in, celebrate progress.

6:13

We tap into the power of positive

6:15

reinforcement. Research has shown that immediate

6:18

positive rewards can actually boost intrinsic

6:20

motivation. It's about linking the desired

6:22

behavior with positive feelings, making it

6:24

more likely to stick. So instead

6:27

of pointing at what they could

6:29

do better, we're focusing on celebrating

6:31

those baby steps with genuine compliments

6:34

and support. Yes. Imagine your partner starts

6:36

going to the gym a couple of times

6:38

a week. Instead of critiquing their form

6:40

or suggesting they go more often, you express how

6:43

proud you are of their effort. You're

6:45

linking the action going to the

6:47

gym with positive reinforcement, making it

6:49

more appealing. That feels so counterintuitive.

6:52

But it makes sense. We're rewiring

6:54

their brain to associate the behavior

6:56

with a positive feeling. It's really

6:58

about shifting our mindset from one of

7:00

control to one of influence. We can't

7:02

force someone to change, but we can

7:05

create a space where change feels natural

7:07

and rewarding. This ABC loop has

7:09

been a real game changer for me. I

7:11

tend to be a bit of a control freak.

7:13

Especially when it comes to people I care

7:15

about. I think we all struggle with that

7:17

to some extent. It's natural to want the

7:20

best for the people we love, but sometimes

7:22

that desire can manifest in ways that are

7:24

counterproductive. Absolutely. I'm realizing that by

7:26

trying to control the situation, I

7:28

was actually pushing my loved ones

7:31

further away from the change I wanted

7:33

for them. It's a common pattern. When we

7:35

feel like we're being controlled, our natural

7:37

instinct is to resist. But when we

7:39

feel supported and empowered, we're much more

7:41

likely to embrace change. So how do

7:43

we find that balance? How do we offer support

7:46

without slipping into that controlling role?

7:48

It's a delicate dance, but a

7:50

key part of it is recognizing that

7:53

change takes time. It's a process, not

7:55

an overnight transformation. Just like your experience

7:57

with the water bottle, it took a...

7:59

while for that new behavior to

8:01

become ingrained. Patience is key, right?

8:04

Yeah. We need to trust the

8:06

process and let go of the

8:08

need to see immediate result. Exactly.

8:10

We're planting seeds, not demanding instant

8:12

flowers. I've noticed that I often

8:14

get frustrated when I don't see

8:16

the change I'm hoping for right

8:18

away. It's like I expect people

8:20

to change overnight, and when they

8:22

don't, I get discouraged. That's understandable.

8:24

We live in a culture that

8:26

values instant gratification, but change, especially

8:28

when it comes to behavior, rarely

8:30

happens that quickly. to embrace the

8:32

messy unpredictable nature of the process.

8:34

This has been such an eye-opening

8:36

conversation. I'm realizing that my desire

8:38

to motivate others often stems from

8:40

a place of fear or insecurity.

8:43

I want them to change because

8:45

I think it will make me

8:47

feel better. That's a powerful insight

8:49

and it's something we all need

8:51

to be mindful of. When our

8:53

desire to motivate others comes from

8:55

a place of self-interest it can

8:57

easily backfire. But when it comes

8:59

from a place of genuine love

9:01

and support, it can have a

9:03

truly transformative impact. I love that.

9:05

So it's not about fixing them

9:07

or making them into something they're

9:09

not. It's about supporting their growth

9:11

and evolution as individuals. Exactly. It's

9:13

about celebrating their unique journey and

9:15

offering guidance and encouragement along the

9:17

way. I'm starting to see how

9:19

this approach can not only help

9:22

others change, but also... deepen our

9:24

relationships in the process. Absolutely. When

9:26

we approach these conversations with empathy

9:28

and understanding, it creates a stronger

9:30

foundation for connection and trust. Let's

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take a quick breather for a

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Results of tax preparation. That

11:02

was quick. Now, back to the conversation.

11:04

This whole idea shifting from control

11:06

to influence is really resonating with me.

11:09

It feels so much more empowering, both

11:11

for me and for the people I

11:13

care about. It is empowering, because

11:15

ultimately we can't control anyone else's

11:18

behavior, but we can control our

11:20

own actions and reactions. And that's

11:22

where our true power lies. I'm

11:24

also starting to understand the

11:27

importance of celebrating progress,

11:29

no matter how small. It's so easy to get

11:31

caught up in what's not being done that we

11:34

forget to acknowledge the little winds along

11:36

the way. Those little winds are crucial.

11:38

They provide a sense of momentum and

11:40

keep us motivated to keep going. And

11:42

they send a powerful message to the

11:44

other person that their efforts are being

11:46

seen and appreciated. I'm also thinking about

11:49

how this applies to my relationship with

11:51

myself. I tend to be very

11:53

critical of myself and often focus

11:55

on my shortcomings. Self-compassion is just

11:58

as important as compassion for us. In

12:00

fact, it's essential. When we're able

12:02

to offer ourselves grace and understanding,

12:04

we're much better equipped to offer

12:06

it to others. That makes sense.

12:08

It's like we can't pour from

12:10

an empty cup. Exactly. We need

12:12

to fill our own cups first

12:14

with love, kindness, and acceptance. Then

12:16

we can overflow into the lives

12:18

of others. This has been such

12:20

an insightful and transformative conversation. I

12:22

feel like I have a whole

12:24

new framework for approaching not only

12:26

my relationships with others. but also

12:28

my relationship with myself. I'm so

12:30

glad to hear that. Remember, change

12:32

is a journey not a destination,

12:34

and it's a journey best taken

12:36

with compassion, patience, and a healthy

12:38

dose of self-love. It really is

12:40

a shift in perspective, isn't it?

12:42

Instead of focusing on changing others,

12:44

we're looking inward and changing our

12:46

own approach. Exactly. And that can

12:48

be incredibly freeing. It takes the

12:50

pressure off of you and allows

12:52

the other person to feel more

12:54

autonomous. Even if the change doesn't

12:56

happen as quickly as you'd like,

12:58

this process can be valuable. You've

13:00

opened up a line of communication,

13:02

you've expressed your care and support,

13:04

and you've modeled your care and

13:06

support. I'm realizing that... I've often

13:08

viewed these situations as a failure

13:10

if the other person didn't ultimately

13:12

make the change I was hoping

13:14

for. But you're right, there's so

13:16

much value in the process itself

13:18

regardless of the outcome. It's about

13:20

shifting our focus from the destination

13:22

to the journey. And recognizing that

13:24

growth and change are often non-linear.

13:26

That's a great reminder. We need

13:28

to be patient with ourselves and

13:30

others. And remember that even small

13:32

steps forward are worth celebrating. Absolutely.

13:34

Each step no matter how small

13:36

is a victory. It's a sign

13:38

of progress and a testament to

13:40

the power of persistence. This whole

13:42

conversation has really made me think

13:44

about how I can use my

13:46

influence in a more positive and

13:48

supportive way. Not just in my

13:50

close relationships, but in all areas

13:52

of my life. We all have

13:55

the capacity to be positive influencers.

13:57

It's not about having all the

13:59

answers or being perfect. about showing

14:01

up authentically and leading by example.

14:03

It's about being the change we want to

14:05

see in the world, right? Exactly. And

14:07

trusting that even the smallest acts

14:09

of kindness and compassion can have

14:11

a ripple effect. We'll be right back after

14:13

this quick break. All right, we're back.

14:16

Let's continue. Well, I think we've covered

14:18

a lot of ground today. We've learned

14:20

about the power of social contagion, the

14:23

importance of modeling, the behavior we want

14:25

to see in others, and this fantastic

14:27

ABC loop for positive influence. Remember,

14:30

change is a process. It's messy,

14:32

it's unpredictable, and it takes time.

14:34

Be patient with yourself, be patient

14:36

with others, and celebrate every step

14:38

along the way. Wonderful advice. To

14:41

all our listeners out there, what

14:43

small change can you model today

14:45

to positively influence someone you care

14:47

about? Think about it, and let us

14:49

know. That's it for this episode of

14:51

The Messie Podcast. Thanks for joining us

14:53

on this Deep Dive. We'll see you

14:56

next time. You've opened up a line

14:58

of communication, you've expressed your care

15:00

and support, and you've modeled healthy behaviors.

15:03

I'm realizing that I've often viewed these

15:05

situations as a failure if the other

15:07

person didn't ultimately make the change I

15:09

was hoping for, but you're right, there's

15:11

so much value in the process itself,

15:13

regardless of the outcome. It's about shifting

15:15

our focus from the destination to the

15:17

journey and recognizing that growth and change

15:19

are often nonlinear. That's a great

15:21

reminder. We need to be patient with

15:23

ourselves and others, and remember that

15:25

even small steps forward are worth

15:27

celebrating. Absolutely. Each step, no matter how

15:30

small, is a victory. It's a sign

15:32

of progress and a testament to the

15:34

power of persistence. This whole conversation has

15:36

really made me think about how I can use

15:38

my influence in a more positive and supportive

15:40

way. not just in my close relationships, but

15:43

in all areas of my life. We all

15:45

have the capacity to be positive influencers.

15:47

It's not about having all the answers

15:49

or being perfect, it's about showing up

15:51

authentically and leading by example. It's about

15:53

being the change we want to see in the

15:55

world, right? Exactly, and trusting that even the

15:57

smallest acts of krenness and compassion... can

16:00

have a ripple effect. I Well, I think

16:02

we've covered a lot of ground today.

16:04

We've learned about the power of social

16:06

contagion, the importance of of the behavior

16:08

we want to see in others, to and

16:10

this fantastic fantastic for positive influence. Any

16:13

final thoughts before we wrap up? we wrap

16:15

Remember, change is a process. messy,

16:17

It's messy, it's unpredictable, it and it

16:19

takes time. with Be patient with yourself, others,

16:21

be patient with others, and celebrate every

16:23

step along the way. Wonderful advice to

16:25

all our listeners out there. out there. What change

16:27

can you model today to positively influence

16:29

some way you what you care about? Think

16:31

about it and let us know. it for this

16:33

That's it for this episode of The

16:35

Messy Thanks Thanks for joining us on

16:38

this deep We'll see you next time. time.