0:06

Hey, before I start this episode, I have

0:09

some thanks to dish out. First,

0:12

I want to thank every single one of

0:14

you out there who has bought

0:16

the Memory Palace book. It

0:18

is out now on shelves. At least it

0:20

is on shelves where you can find it. Thanks

0:22

to pre-orders by Memory Palace listeners, you

0:25

folks have given this book a fighting chance

0:27

in a ridiculously difficult, struggling

0:29

market particularly for non-fiction books.

0:33

Because of people who pre-ordered and

0:35

have bought the book in its first days, this

0:37

book is actually in stores, which was never a

0:40

foregone conclusion, even the fact that this is a

0:42

random house book. It has meant

0:44

that there are usually just a few copies, but

0:46

that, my friends, is

0:49

something. It is something real. Because

0:52

those few copies are enough for someone who

0:54

works at that bookstore to look at this

0:56

book that has come into their store essentially

0:58

unheralded, look down in the

1:01

box that they just cut open and

1:03

say, now that's a book cover, and

1:06

then they flip through it. And

1:08

they like it, and maybe they make a

1:10

little display, maybe a small pyramid that might

1:12

catch the eye of the browsing reader in

1:15

their store. And

1:17

it looks like those few books in

1:19

those stores, like in my own

1:22

neighborhood bookstore, Skylight Books here in Los

1:24

Angeles, are selling and selling out,

1:26

which means that they will order more, and

1:28

that little display might get a little more

1:30

space in the table, might more likely catch

1:32

the eye of the next bookstore browsers, and

1:35

maybe build some momentum. So thank you

1:37

so sincerely for buying a book, those

1:40

who have bought a book. And

1:42

those who haven't, thank you in

1:44

advance. You're going to like it. And

1:46

if you want to spread the word, whether that is

1:48

friend to friend, or on your

1:50

social media feed, or through a Goodreads review

1:52

or Amazon review, or

1:54

you just want to talk to the cute nerd who works at

1:56

the bookstore and say, I love this book, you

1:59

should make a little display. That

2:01

would be amazing. And

2:03

so helpful. The

2:06

second thank you, I want to thank every

2:08

one of you who has donated to this

2:10

year's Radiotopia fundraiser. We are off to

2:12

a good start, a solid start, but we need to pick

2:14

up some steam here. The other night

2:16

I was in Phoenix, Arizona in its central

2:18

library reading from and signing my book. And

2:21

I love these sort of things. And a

2:23

woman raised her hand and she said, I'm

2:27

sorry if this is a little bit off topic, but what

2:30

exactly is Radiotopia? And

2:33

as I told her the other night, and as I will tell you

2:35

now, this is an off topic

2:37

at all. While

2:39

other questions were about what makes the memory palace

2:41

tick or what inspires the stories or how

2:44

did you make me cry with a story about the

2:46

guy who wrote the Monster Mash or about the second

2:48

woman to cross the English Channel. Well

2:51

under all of that, why

2:53

I get to write those stories, why

2:56

I get to write them from this pure place where

2:59

it's just me following my

3:01

muse or whatever, finding that muse

3:03

wherever it might be. It's

3:06

because of Radiotopia. Quite

3:09

literally this collective of independently owned

3:11

and operated podcasts, each of

3:13

us banding together so we can stand

3:15

up on our own, make our own

3:17

business and creative decisions without corporate overlords

3:19

or other bean counters putting pressure on

3:21

us, which is good because I

3:23

guarantee each of us is putting enough pressure on ourselves. All

3:27

that works. The

3:29

network can support me in each of our shows.

3:32

We can chart our own course because

3:34

of listeners like you. Your donations

3:36

provide the very foundation that gives our show

3:39

the kind of stability that allows us to

3:41

take creative risks and make

3:43

beautiful things in the way that each

3:45

of us find beautiful by

3:47

our definition. So please join

3:49

us today and support that mission and

3:51

support the show at radiotopia.fm slash

3:54

donate. And as an

3:56

added incentive, if you

3:58

donate, when you donate, I just know you're going to donate.

4:02

If you do that and then you write

4:04

in the little comment box that comes up

4:06

after you donate, if you write TMP book,

4:08

TMP book, you will be entered to win a

4:10

signed copy of my new book. So

4:13

donate today at radiotopia.fm slash donate,

4:15

put TMP book in the comment

4:17

box and you will be entered

4:20

to win. Hey

4:26

there, listening to this right now in

4:28

the Washington DC metro area. I just

4:31

want to let you know they're listening to this

4:33

in the Washington DC metro area, that I will

4:36

be doing a special book event celebrating

4:38

the release of my new and first

4:41

book of Memory Palace stories at Solid

4:43

State Books at the H Street location

4:46

on Wednesday, December 5th. That's Wednesday, December 5th

4:48

at Solid State at the H Street location.

4:50

And I'd love to see you there. If

4:52

you want more information about it, you can

4:55

go to thememorypalace.us slash events. Welcome

4:59

to a special bonus episode of the Memory

5:01

Palace. I am Nate D'Ameo. And

5:03

today we're going to find out what this

5:05

sound is. You trust us to surprise you.

5:07

You don't trust us to give

5:09

you the thing you already know you want. Yeah.

5:12

And you in your anti-algorithmic

5:15

sensibility are so much

5:17

more hardcore about that than us. On

5:20

the day my book came out on November 19th, 2024, while

5:22

I was running

5:25

around trying to tick off too many

5:27

things on a too long to do

5:29

list. I kept passing through my

5:31

living room where my mother-in-law Elaine

5:33

in from New York to

5:35

come very kindly. Hello, Elaine. I'm sure you're

5:38

listening to my book release

5:40

event here in California. In

5:42

the living room, she was watching me on

5:45

the television on YouTube, which is

5:47

a very weird thing for me to see. It is

5:50

always weird to find out what you look like. She was

5:52

watching me in an appearance on

5:55

one of my very favorite shows, the

5:58

podcast YouTube show. and

6:00

I believe but I also kind of can't

6:02

believe show on the cable

6:05

television network is it that

6:07

I am NOT really sure the draft Kings

6:09

network from the draft Kings

6:11

sports gambling Empire which is a crazy thing

6:13

to say and that maybe should

6:15

be illegal but I digress that

6:18

show is Pablo Torre finds out and

6:21

I found it recently that Pablo

6:24

a guy who I have been watching appear

6:26

on various screens typically

6:28

on ESPN but lately on cable

6:31

news thinking that this he

6:33

is the rarest thing in those spaces a

6:36

likable reasonable sharp talking

6:38

head I found out that

6:40

this guy who you know I've been

6:43

watching for years thinking you know I

6:45

like this guy you know in that

6:47

classic parasocial way that gets weird if

6:49

you think about it too much and

6:51

lately as he has been doing a podcast

6:54

called Pablo Torre finds out which

6:56

I'll talk about in a second I have been listening

6:59

to it and thinking I

7:01

think this stranger and I are kind of kindred

7:03

spirits in this weird way so

7:05

I have recently come to find out that he

7:08

has been listening to the memory palace thinking

7:10

the same thing about me and

7:12

so the other day I was on his

7:14

show talking about the memory palace talking about

7:16

my new book talking about what

7:19

happens when we remember some sports guys

7:21

and it was extremely fun so

7:24

today you can listen here in my feed

7:26

to my appearance on Pablo Torre finds out

7:29

and one of my favorite shows and

7:31

so I'm delighted to share this with you not just because it

7:34

is a particularly fun interview and not just

7:37

because I think you'll enjoy hearing this stuff

7:39

that this particular interviewer approaching

7:41

the show and my whole deal from a

7:43

fairly different approach angle than other

7:46

people have see what it yields but

7:48

I am delighted to do it because you

7:50

should be listening to a show it

7:53

rules it is often

7:55

about sports but not always it is

7:57

like the show led by its host

8:00

idiosyncratic curiosity. Often

8:02

you will take a look at the title or

8:04

whatever and you will think you have

8:06

a handle on what the episode seems to be about and

8:09

you might not think that you are interested in that thing.

8:12

For me that is any episode about college football. I

8:14

do not care about college football but

8:16

the next thing you are

8:18

completely fascinated even when it is about college

8:21

football and you are totally glad you clicked.

8:23

As we mentioned in our conversation I

8:26

loved an episode he recently did in which

8:28

he and Wesley Morris of the New York

8:30

Times who I am convinced is America's greatest

8:32

talker. Talk about the night

8:34

that they both spent becoming among

8:36

the handful of people to have seen

8:38

a nine-hour documentary that Ezra

8:41

Edelman made about Prince for

8:43

Netflix. That Prince's estate is essentially forbidding Netflix

8:45

from ever airing. It is great and that

8:47

is a terrific one to go listen to

8:49

after you listen to this one. So

8:51

here is me on Pablo Torre finds out.

8:54

Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts or

8:57

watch on the cable channel that you

8:59

probably already have if you happen to

9:01

be a self-proclaimed degenerate sports gambler. Welcome

9:10

to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo

9:12

Torre and today we're going to find out

9:14

what this sound is. I

9:16

truly think he is probably the least qualified baseball

9:19

player to ever suit up and participate in a

9:21

major league baseball game. Right

9:23

after this ad. You're

9:26

listening to DraftKings

9:28

Network. The

9:42

number one rule I have for this

9:44

show is that if someone is going

9:46

to be a guest and they've written

9:48

a book, I must read the book.

9:50

I very much appreciate that. In your

9:52

case also re-listen to a bunch of

9:54

your podcasts. Refamiliarize myself with

9:57

why I'm actually passionately genuinely into this

9:59

s***. That's exactly right. That's the mission

10:01

for everything. And I say that to

10:04

you, Nate DeMeo, because this is also

10:07

something that I think we are a bit of a

10:09

kindred pair of spirits about. Yeah, I

10:11

think that's entirely true. I think that

10:14

one of the things that is key to

10:16

me when I sort of look out in

10:18

the world and try to find these different

10:20

stories, because it's super easy to find things

10:23

that you might potentially write about, you know?

10:25

Like in one's algorithm, it will just feed

10:27

you. Like fun factoids. A

10:29

thing that makes it a memory palace story, instead of

10:31

just like a sort of interesting thing that you heard

10:34

once, is that it has to

10:36

move me in the same way that it has

10:38

to move you. To

10:43

fully explain why it is that I am

10:45

so moved by Nate DeMeo and his show,

10:48

which is now a book, The Memory Palace,

10:51

I feel obliged to let you in on

10:53

what I consider to be a deeply embarrassing

10:55

secret about how my own show

10:57

gets made, which is that we

10:59

spend a lot of time

11:02

trying to figure out the

11:04

optimal title and optimal description

11:07

for every single episode that we make. And

11:10

I should say that we do

11:12

this because the subjects we cover,

11:14

the stories we tell, are so

11:16

deliberately not engineered for the algorithm.

11:19

We do stuff on this show that nobody else

11:21

in sports media will or wants to or can,

11:23

and so for that reason, we

11:26

also felt the need to create

11:28

an entire Slack channel where

11:30

we will argue over how to best

11:32

persuade the sun god

11:34

that is the algorithm to

11:36

perhaps one day shine its

11:38

light upon us. And

11:41

I hate that part

11:43

of my job. I hate it

11:45

so much, miserably, that I have

11:48

never been more jealous of the

11:50

man in studio with me today.

11:53

Because Nate DeMeo has been hosting and

11:55

producing the Memory Palace for 16 years

11:57

now. And just one reason

11:59

it is so... deeply respected in what

12:01

I will call the public radio cinematic

12:03

universe is that his

12:06

podcast marketing strategy when it comes

12:08

to including any such identifying or

12:10

searchable or discoverable or clickable bits

12:13

of information of any sort can

12:15

be summarized in two words. F***

12:19

that. I

12:23

fear what you're about to say. Tell me

12:25

what you're going to say. No, which is

12:27

to say that I am trying to make

12:29

a show that is not reverse engineered according

12:31

to the popularity, the whims of the audience

12:33

that we are trying to capture. That's exactly

12:35

right. We're trying to make a show here

12:37

on Pablo Dore finds out that I'm

12:39

so delighted that you enjoy and you said

12:41

one of the kindest things a person can

12:43

say to me, which is I listened to

12:45

one of your episodes twice. Yeah, absolutely true.

12:48

It was the Prince episode.

12:50

I'm right. And I thank you for

12:52

that because you trust us to surprise you.

12:54

You don't trust us to give

12:56

you the thing you already know you want.

12:58

Yeah. And you in your anti

13:01

algorithmic sensibility are

13:03

so much more hardcore about that than us.

13:05

And it comes down to this thing that

13:07

like, that is just fundamental to my

13:09

understanding, not just to the past, but the way that

13:11

I just sort of like move through the world is

13:15

that the past is inherently fictional. Like

13:17

no matter the fact that we know that this

13:19

stuff happens, we can dig up the bones, we

13:21

can read the letters, we can read the diary

13:24

entries. The way that we

13:26

can access that is an act of imagination.

13:29

If you're on the subway and you're reading a book about Gettysburg

13:31

and part of you is on the six train and part of

13:33

you is in the bloody junction

13:35

or whatever the names of the places are

13:37

Gettysburg. I don't think that's one, but it

13:39

sounds like one. Wherever you are. Somewhere where

13:42

trench foot, somewhere. Exactly. Where people had

13:44

trench mouth, trench foot, all the trench

13:46

stuff. Like it's the same thing

13:49

if you're sitting there and you're reading about like middle

13:51

earth. You are transported to

13:53

this imaginary space in which the past lives.

13:56

And that is true of Gettysburg and

13:58

that is true of... Norman D.

14:00

Beach, but it's also true of like the

14:02

story that your buddy tells you at the bar, the

14:05

thing that happened to him. It

14:07

happened to him, it is already living in

14:09

his memory, but when he's recounting it, it creates

14:11

this kind of like fictional space, you know,

14:13

where you're picturing your buddy hitting on this

14:15

girl. I haven't explained exactly what she looks like,

14:17

but you can kind of picture her. You

14:19

can, you know, you can conjure this thing.

14:21

And I am fascinated by the way

14:23

memory works, but what I really

14:25

love is that conjuring act. Cause

14:28

we are relating at every

14:30

possible juncture to the details

14:32

we're imagining. That's exactly right. Our

14:35

imagination is inevitably

14:37

a character in this

14:39

story. In

14:42

fact, it is more than that. It is

14:44

the narrator of our interpretation of the story

14:46

we are hearing. You

14:48

go so far as to not even include

14:51

the names of the people that you're making

14:53

episodes about in the descriptions of the episodes.

14:55

Yeah, I mean, and I'm sure that has

14:57

cost me money. I guarantee. I have bad

15:00

news, it's cost you a lot of money.

15:02

I guarantee that that's true. And believe me,

15:04

this is a conversation that I have, you

15:06

know, ongoing in any number of venues. And

15:09

that is the truth. Like at the beginning of an episode,

15:11

there's often a cryptic title and then there

15:13

is no like, hey, we're about to talk about the Korean War. We

15:16

just start talking about the Korean War. Part

15:19

of it also comes down to like, I got

15:21

into this whole thing in part,

15:24

like through music, you know, like when I was in

15:26

my twenties, I played in bands that people don't remember

15:28

and loved that experience. But what I really loved was

15:30

the idea that one day, the song will be on

15:32

the radio, that a song that

15:35

I write might come in and change someone's day

15:37

out of the blue, that they're in one mood

15:39

and then the song comes in and they are

15:41

changed. And they started to notice that

15:43

that's the way that radio works. And I started to

15:45

fall in love with public radio in

15:47

part because a story from the news could sneak

15:49

into your day the same way. Here

15:52

you are, you know, wrapped up in the worry

15:54

and sputter of just like, of you're trying to

15:56

find a parking spot. You're trying to remember what

15:58

you're supposed to do that afternoon, you're replaying. of

20:00

the audience, et cetera. But like you look

20:02

back at these polls and you look back at the

20:04

story we're told and I'm

20:06

constantly sort of aware and kind of

20:08

trying to unearth and ultimately like trying

20:10

to like imagine and trying to find

20:12

the facts that allow for better, more

20:14

accurate imagining and more like

20:17

sincere and more sort of ultimately

20:19

like more true guessing and

20:21

gap filling. All we gotta do

20:23

though, is just make sure that we

20:25

do a good Mr. Beast face into the camera so

20:28

that they have the teaser image. That's exactly right. Yeah,

20:30

just a big. I'm

20:32

always taken by the like the like I'm

20:35

puzzling something out. It's amazing. I'm

20:37

glad to participate in this. I'm glad

20:39

to correct. Make your face for dragging the purity

20:41

of the memory palace. I'm glad

20:43

to drag you down to the trench

20:47

that is discoverability. And

20:50

all day long you can see endless

20:52

debate about, you know,

20:54

whether Karl-Anthony Townes interior defense, what

20:57

that might mean to the. They're shooting 90% on him

21:00

in the painting. That's exactly right. I should make clear

21:02

if it's not clear enough already by virtue of you

21:04

just casually referencing Karl-Anthony Townes. Sure. So

21:06

you are a guy who likes to remember some

21:08

guys. Absolutely. Because in a way, I think that's

21:10

a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's

21:12

a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's

21:14

a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's

21:16

a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's

21:18

a good thing. Because in a way, because it is anti-algorithmic. You

21:20

know what I mean? Like, yes,

21:22

you can look up any guy, right? You can look

21:25

up anything. But to just sort of sit there and

21:27

just let your mind go. Yeah, Scott Rowland. Yes, exactly.

21:29

To just say like John Candelaria, right? And

21:31

to just throw out these names. Like for

21:34

every like Greg Agne, you know. Like

21:36

Eric Gagne. Eric Gagne, because they're paired in your head

21:38

and the same way Kirby Fuggett will suddenly enter the

21:40

picture and you won't know why Kent Herbeck is there

21:42

all of a sudden. It just like

21:45

activates this weird sensation. That

21:47

is part of the conjuring act that I

21:49

tried to participate in. The name that I

21:51

want to remember, the guy I want to

21:53

remember, is a guy I can only remember

21:55

now because I listened to your episode about

21:57

him. And

21:59

his name is... Charlie Faust. Ah, Charlie

22:02

Faust. So the episode,

22:04

the episode title is Victory. You

22:06

can look for that but don't expect to like, serve

22:08

any other useful search for this. If you're gonna search

22:10

for this in Nate's feed, you gotta look up the

22:13

word Victory. This I think

22:15

is the least athletic player, arguably, on

22:18

the medal stand for least athletic

22:20

player in the history of baseball. I truly

22:22

think he is probably the least qualified baseball

22:24

player to ever suit up and participate in

22:26

a major league baseball game. And

22:29

he's just one of those people where I'm like, I

22:31

should have known about him long

22:33

before I listened to this. And I did it. He

22:36

fell through the cracks. And so the

22:38

story of Charlie Victory Faust begins where,

22:40

Nate? Well,

22:44

for me, it begins in Germany. You

22:48

can understand who Charles Victor Faust is

22:50

by thinking about his

22:53

father leaving Germany

22:55

in like 1880 something, traveling

22:59

across the world, ending up

23:01

in Kansas, classic

23:03

immigrant story. And

23:05

what is he gonna do? He's gonna buy some

23:07

land. He's gonna like have some strong sons. They're

23:10

gonna take over the farm one day. And

23:14

he has the son who simply can't. Charlie

23:17

Faust. He is neurodivergent

23:19

in some way. Like people, you

23:21

know, at the time, you know, call him

23:23

an idiot or a moron or simple, or

23:26

simple or whatever their pejorative or even

23:28

technical term they're trying to apply that

23:31

now seems like, you know, chaotic

23:33

and cruel and imprecise. We

23:37

don't know what that means to him. We don't know whether that

23:39

was a thing that pained him. We

23:42

don't know if he could understand his father's disappointment.

23:46

But what we do know is that

23:49

one day he shows up in

23:51

St. Louis, Missouri in the summer of

23:55

He has traveled hundreds of miles

23:58

from Kansas, which which

24:00

one would assume would be a very challenging thing.

24:04

The New York Giants are in

24:06

town, and he gets

24:09

the attention of John McGraw, the

24:11

pugnacious manager of the New York

24:13

Giants. By

24:15

the way, John McGraw is a

24:18

harsh man, one of the

24:20

greatest managers, and one of the, it sounds like,

24:22

according to the historical record, also one of the

24:24

cruelest at times. Yes, exactly. So

24:27

here comes this man, Charlie Faust. He

24:29

essentially says, like, hey, Mr. McGraw, I have something to tell

24:31

you. He speaks in a

24:34

apparently, like, accent that's part sort of German

24:36

accent, part kind of like hick from the

24:38

country. And he says, a month

24:41

or two ago, I went to the fair

24:43

in Wichita, and I talked

24:45

to a fortune teller. And

24:49

at this point, McGraw is

24:52

like, fortune teller, do tell, because he is

24:54

pugnacious, but he is also apparently like super

24:56

superstitious. He is a lucky penny picker upper.

24:58

He is a, you know, okay guys, let's

25:01

wear the road uniforms even at we're home.

25:03

Let's break the streak. He's a true baseball

25:05

man in this regard. He's Wade Boggsian, and

25:07

he's gonna eat chicken the whole time, whatever.

25:10

Jason Gianbi wearing the gold thong. Jason Gianbi

25:12

wearing the gold thong. So you've done it

25:14

again. You remembered some guys. And

25:20

he says, okay, so you know, so what do you have

25:22

to tell me? What did this fortune teller tell you? And

25:25

the thing about fortune tellers is

25:27

that they are typically

25:30

giving you the most vague thing

25:32

that will resonate specifically. So

25:35

Charlie Faust tells John McGraw, this

25:38

fortune teller told me that I

25:40

am going to pitch the New

25:42

York Giants to the World Series. John

25:46

McGraw looks at this guy. He's six foot

25:48

two, corn fed. Something's

25:51

a little off of them for sure, but

25:53

he has no idea. Like this is 1911, the

25:56

greatest baseball player ever to live might

25:58

be in the next town. Yeah, fan

26:01

graphs didn't exist yet. Absolutely. John McGraw,

26:03

superstitious man, says, okay,

26:05

let's see what you can do. So

26:08

Charlie Faust is there like in his Sunday suit. He

26:11

walks out to the mound. John

26:13

McGraw gets behind the plate, puts on his

26:15

glove. You know, he says, okay, it's a one

26:17

finger for the fastball, two fingers for the curve. If

26:19

you got something else, that'll be finger number three.

26:22

And Charlie Faust gets out there, and

26:24

he gets into his windup. And

26:27

then his arm starts flailing around. You're

26:29

doing the Bugs Bunny. Yes, not even. Bugs

26:31

had way more grace than that. It

26:34

sounds like it's just this sort of chaotic mess, you know.

26:37

And he fires that ball, and it

26:40

very slowly glides to the plate. You

26:43

know, it is like pretty straight. It is

26:45

roughly accurate. It is incredibly slow.

26:48

He puts down the number two. It is

26:50

the same pitch. It is straight. It is

26:52

slow. It is just imminently

26:54

crushable. People are gathering

26:56

around. The other players are watching this. And they

26:59

are certainly laughing at this guy they think is

27:01

simple or whatever. They let him bat.

27:05

He swings 20 times. He hits something into the

27:07

field. Everybody is kind

27:09

of in on the joke. So they are like letting him run around the bases. They're

27:12

fumbling. They're pretending they can't tag him. He

27:14

slides into home. And he gets up, and he says, like,

27:16

when am I starting? Right. So

27:19

John McGraw, just to be very clear here, is

27:22

now going along with this in a

27:24

way that has made this itself a

27:26

spectacle. They're walking that fine line between

27:28

laughing at and laughing with. Yes. And

27:32

they invite Charles Victor Faust

27:34

to hang out on the bench with them that night.

27:37

They give him a uniform. They

27:39

intentionally give him a too small uniform.

27:41

It is comically small. They are playing

27:43

a joke on this man. Like, they

27:45

are being cruel to this man

27:47

sitting on the bench at a major league baseball

27:49

stadium whose whole dream has been to do this,

27:52

whose focus has been after someone has told him with

27:54

a presumably straight face, that you, sir, you young man,

28:00

and are going to pitch the

28:02

New York Giants to the World

28:04

Series. Yes, what we're watching here

28:06

on this field is both joke

28:08

and prophecy. Yes. Unfolding

28:10

hand in hand. And I

28:12

just want to point out that this

28:14

is insane. It is

28:16

insane. ["The

28:18

New York Giants"] And

28:23

so this is where I do need you to

28:25

know that you can actually look up what happened

28:27

next in the record books yourselves.

28:31

Because while we do not know and

28:33

cannot ever truly know what Charlie Victor

28:35

Faust had by way of inner monologue

28:37

at this time, what he

28:39

really thought of himself, we

28:42

can confirm that the 1911 New York

28:44

Giants in St. Louis with Charlie Faust

28:46

sitting right there in the dugout at

28:48

age 30, wearing that too

28:50

small uniform that John McGraw had given

28:53

him, proceeded to win. They

28:56

shut out the St. Louis Cardinals, eight nothing.

28:59

And so John McGraw brought Charlie Faust

29:01

back the very next day in that

29:04

uniform. And the Giants shut

29:06

out the Cardinals again. And

29:09

so John McGraw did the exact same thing. Charlie Faust

29:11

was back on the bench. The

29:14

Giants won again. Charlie

29:16

Faust and the New York Giants wound

29:18

up just a half game out of first

29:21

place in the National League when it was

29:23

finally time for them to leave

29:25

St. Louis. And they've taken

29:27

him out to dinner. They've bought him some

29:29

beers. They've like bought him a burger. They've

29:32

said like, hey, we've had a fun time with this

29:34

rube or whatever other more cruel thing they've been saying

29:36

about him. And they say like, yeah, have a nice

29:38

life, man. Thanks for these victories, you really helped us

29:41

out. And so the

29:43

Giants decide to leave St. Louis and

29:45

Charlie Faust, who had been waiting to

29:47

pitch this entire time behind. At

29:55

which point the Giants proceed to lose four

29:57

in a row in Pittsburgh

29:59

and then... Chicago. They

30:02

thought they were in like spitting distance of being able

30:04

to play for the pennant. Everything has

30:06

kind of fallen apart in this thing. But

30:09

when the New York Giants get back home to

30:11

Manhattan and they finally get back to the polo

30:13

grounds, their home ballpark, they

30:16

find a very familiar face

30:18

waiting for them somehow. Charlie

30:23

Victor Faust, who

30:28

previously had crossed 300 miles or so

30:31

to get from Kansas to St.

30:33

Louis, he has now crossed half

30:36

of the United States, has seen

30:38

Manhattan for the first time, has

30:40

showed up at their stadium and

30:43

is like, am I going to pitch tonight? And

30:45

they say, yeah, yeah, yeah, who knows

30:47

what will happen? But hey, we need

30:49

some luck. The penny has suddenly

30:52

rolled back in front of me. Let's pick it

30:54

up again. They

30:57

win 36 times when

31:00

he is sitting on the bench. They

31:03

lose twice in the

31:05

rest of the regular season. Every

31:09

night, Charlie Faust is saying to John McGraw and saying to

31:11

all the guys, saying to the equipment manager, saying to the

31:13

peanut guy, to everyone, like, tonight's the night I'm going to

31:15

get in the game. I'm going to get in the game.

31:19

And he's driving people crazy, but they don't

31:21

mind because they're also winning. He eventually does

31:23

get in the game, which is

31:26

when he becomes the least qualified person to ever play in

31:28

a major league baseball game. I just can't believe that he

31:30

actually got a good game. It's

31:33

September. They already booked their ticket to the

31:35

World Series. They can lose any of these

31:37

games. He comes in

31:39

on the ninth. He pitches.

31:41

The other team

31:43

is like in on the bit. You

31:45

know, they're swinging and missing. Some

31:47

guy really tries to take him for a ride, but he just

31:49

kind of gets under it and the ball goes deep to, you

31:51

know, to right field and someone catches it. By

31:55

the way, you can go look this up

31:57

on baseballreference.com and he's there. 0.50

32:00

ERA. Yes.

32:03

Two innings pitched. Everyone in the papers is

32:05

like they're covering Charlie Faust all the time. For

32:07

a long time it's this great bit. They

32:10

have changed his middle name to Victory Faust. Giants

32:15

go on to lose the World Series that year.

32:19

And the joke is that it is

32:21

because the Mojo in the Philadelphia Athletics

32:23

dug out because they have their own

32:25

cruel mascot. Yes.

32:28

Because there is a little person in their

32:31

dug out who has a hunchback.

32:33

Louis Van Zels. Louis Van Zels.

32:36

And they have been rubbing the hump in his

32:38

back for luck as though it is the Buddha's

32:41

belly at a Chinese restaurant for

32:43

their whole season. And apparently

32:45

that Mojo brings them

32:47

to victory. Just baseball,

32:50

man. Baseball.

32:53

And the next year comes around and Charlie's like, all

32:55

right, let's do it again. Just roll it back and

32:57

like, hey, you know, I'm really sorry.

32:59

I must have let you guys down because like the prophecy.

33:01

So clearly this is our year. I

33:04

mean, the truth is he's also a person who is struggling being

33:06

a person. He's a little bit too

33:08

insistent. He gets a little bit too agitated. Yeah. It

33:11

was a joke to him. It was fun for them for a

33:13

while and now it's not. And like, how do they adjust when

33:15

it's fun? And I'm sure some of the guys were total d***s.

33:17

I'm sure some of the guys weren't. And because that's just the

33:20

way people are. And they tell them

33:22

to take off, you know, and they say, we'll

33:24

catch up with you. And they never do. And

33:27

in a lot of places like this is where the story ends, right?

33:30

You can either do like some sort of weird

33:32

movie version, which thank God they would not make

33:34

today, but they might have made in like 1968

33:37

where Charlie Faust, you know, is hoisted

33:39

on someone's shoulders after sliding into home.

33:42

You know, hey, Charlie, it's been a

33:44

good season. Yeah, you make it narratively

33:46

convenient. Yes. So they can feel

33:48

like actually this was nice all along. You know,

33:50

but the truth of the matter is like, that's not the way we tell stories anymore.

33:53

Charlie Faust. Charlie goes back to live with a

33:55

brother who lives in Seattle, who like tries

33:57

to take care of him as best as he can. But at some

33:59

point, at some point, Charlie is found

34:01

wandering in Portland, having walked all that

34:04

way. And he's looking for

34:06

the New York Giants. He's trying to connect with

34:08

them in Portland where they will never be. He's

34:11

remanded to an institution where he dies

34:13

in poverty like quite soon thereafter, this

34:16

sad death. But there

34:18

is this scene where, before

34:21

victory, before Charlie Faust

34:23

dies, he checks into

34:25

a hospital. And the

34:28

thing that he does there, is

34:30

a marker of, this is how he thought

34:33

of himself. He is supposed

34:35

to, for record keeping, write down, what sort

34:37

of work did you do? And

34:39

he writes baseball player, which

34:42

is entirely true. And

34:45

however he came to it, the

34:48

truth of the matter is this guy played baseball. In

34:50

fact, he is a guy,

34:52

He's a guy. that one can remember.

34:54

Yes, and we've created this little memory

34:56

palace here, and now you two

34:59

can remember some guys. Storytelling

35:09

is one of the most overused words across

35:12

human civilization at this point. But

35:14

the reason I cling to it as

35:16

this heading is because it implies

35:18

something, because you're writing

35:21

and you're structuring, which is to

35:23

say that you are strategizing and

35:25

manipulating. And I do the

35:27

same for it. And I just

35:29

wanna know for you, what is

35:31

the voice that you're listening to as

35:34

you're trying to formulate your own? When

35:36

I think about trying to write the best memory palace story, or trying

35:38

to figure out like, what's the mode that I want to be in?

35:41

It really comes back into, what are my

35:43

favorite ways to have heard a story? And

35:46

it is some version of like your best friend

35:48

at the bar, where they have just

35:50

read some incredible book, or they have come back

35:53

from a trip to Venice. Something has just happened

35:55

to them, and they have come to you, and

35:57

they have thought about what you, Pablo, you

36:00

Nate kind of need to, what's really gonna

36:02

get you going? And they have like blown

36:04

your mind. It's this kind of like intimate

36:07

thing where someone has thought it all through

36:09

and they have a sense where like, well, if I tell you this

36:12

first, you're gonna be thinking this and then I'm gonna flip it over.

36:14

And so there's craft stuff, but

36:16

ultimately what underlines that and

36:19

underlies it is meaning

36:22

that the past is just like the present. It

36:24

is just as complicated. The big

36:26

picture understanding is that it is everything all

36:28

at once, that it is as complicated as

36:30

today feels, that the people in the past

36:32

are just as human as we are. And

36:35

it's surprising how hard that idea

36:37

is, for even me to hold who thinks

36:40

about that all the time. I am not an

36:42

expert in history, but I think

36:44

about how we live in time all the time.

36:47

The fact that you had to close your eyes

36:49

shut as you grappled with how much you are

36:51

thinking about the past is

36:54

very convincing. And thinking about the

36:56

present as this like historically constructed

36:58

thing it's

37:01

hard to just like hang out in

37:03

the Walgreens and hear a song

37:05

on the radio and not think to yourself. But

37:07

in 1997, they were really thinking like the

37:09

ways that they were standing off the rough

37:11

edges of grunge in this one or whatever.

37:14

It's like, it's constant to constant presence. I

37:16

should confess that I

37:19

didn't expect my ass to be kicked emotionally

37:22

by a story about pigeons. For

37:24

our YouTube audience, we have a treat for you.

37:26

If you're just listening on audio, go to our

37:29

YouTube channel. And my God, I sound

37:31

like a YouTuber when I say such

37:33

things. That's right. But I want

37:35

you to enjoy this. It's

37:41

impossible to know for sure, but ornithologists

37:43

tell us there were 5 billion passenger

37:45

pigeons in North America at the beginning

37:47

of the 1800s. That

37:50

is one out of every five birds. And

37:53

when they would fly South in the fall and North

37:55

again in the spring, the

37:57

birds would literally darken the sky. The

38:00

flocks would stretch out a mile wide and 300 miles

38:02

long. They

38:05

would take hours, often all day, to fly

38:07

overhead. You'd wake up in the morning

38:09

to the sound of approaching birds and while you ate

38:11

breakfast, tended your fields all day,

38:13

brought your livestock in at night or whatever.

38:16

The flock would still be overhead when you went to

38:19

bed. The sound

38:21

must have been incredible. The

38:23

droppings, the sh**, from a couple of million

38:25

birds would rain down, defoliating

38:28

whole swaths of forest, making

38:30

fields fallow. When all those

38:32

birds would sit down in the woods as a layover, it

38:35

would take years for trees to recover. One

38:38

nesting site occupied 850 square miles of Wisconsin. There

38:42

were as many as 136 million birds there at a time. But

38:47

all of this made them incredibly easy to hunt.

38:50

It is said that if you shot a rifle into the

38:52

air as they flew overhead, one shot

38:54

could take down 30 birds. They

38:56

were flying so close that they'd collide like

38:58

some sort of horrible highway pilot, and they

39:01

plummered. As the American

39:03

human population spread west, the forest started

39:05

to disappear. And as

39:07

industrialization and immigration swelled the eastern

39:10

cities, people needed meat. Industrial

39:13

hunters stepped in. They'd lay

39:15

fires and stands of trees to smoke the birds

39:17

out and kill them. They'd take a single pigeon

39:20

and sew its eyes up for some reason. Then

39:23

they tied to a school so its panic

39:25

flapping would cause curious flocks to land. Then

39:27

they'd be trapped and killed. Sometimes they'd

39:29

soak birdseed and alcohol to get them drunk so

39:32

they'd be easier to kill. In

39:34

Petoskey, Michigan in 1878, 50,000 birds were killed every day for

39:37

five months. They

39:42

were packed into boxcars and shipped to

39:44

New York or Boston or Providence or

39:46

Buffalo or Newark or Baltimore. That

39:50

same year, a different Midwestern supplier

39:52

shipped another three million pasture pigeons.

39:55

And the birds started to disappear. The

39:58

females only laid one egg a year. year, which

40:01

is a terrible evolutionary strategy. By

40:04

1900, the flocks were gone. By

40:07

1909, the American Ornithological Society was offering

40:09

$1,500 to anyone who found

40:13

a pigeon in the wild. The

40:16

last known passenger pigeon died in the Cincinnati

40:18

Zoological Park in 1914. She

40:22

was stuffed and mounted in the Birds of

40:24

America exhibit at the Smithsonian. Some

40:27

years back, she was put into storage. I

40:32

mean, look, we're a show that

40:34

is perhaps biased towards remembering

40:38

some guys and also remembering

40:41

some animals. Great. That's

40:44

why I turned to it. Of course, I should

40:46

have known that the passenger pigeon was so numerous

40:48

as to be omnipresent.

40:51

But more than omnipresent, it literally

40:53

darkened the sky. Sometimes

40:55

with these stories, the point on some level

40:57

is to be like, eh, people are just

40:59

like us. You go back and you find

41:01

yourself connected. But there is also

41:03

such value in just being like, yes,

41:06

but the past has changed so

41:09

quickly. It is so different.

41:11

From $5 billion down to

41:14

the one stuffed in the Smithsonian, that

41:16

there was a single bird just sitting there

41:19

is stunning. It really is. And

41:23

every once in a while, you

41:25

are at a museum or you are scrolling

41:29

through TikTok or whatever, and something comes in and

41:31

knocks you out. And this is one of

41:33

those things that knocked me out. And for a long time, the

41:35

memory palace was things that knocked me out 12 years ago that

41:38

I could not shake and that I would

41:40

roll out occasionally, like at that bar. And

41:43

it's a thing that will blow your mind.

41:46

And I've come to just sort of trust that

41:50

if I noticed it, there was some reason. I'm

41:53

inherently interested in why we

41:55

remember the things we do. And sometimes it's

41:57

because it was traumatic. Your reptilian brain has

41:59

like. put up some warning sign and made

42:01

you remember it. This guy can be blackened

42:03

for numerous such reasons. Yes, exactly right. But

42:06

the other thing about it is like

42:08

kind of like the inverse of trauma is

42:11

like epiphany, enjoy, which,

42:13

that there are these things that happen that are

42:15

novel and wonderful. Like the thing when you're suddenly

42:17

like, oh, wait, shoot, this is the way the

42:19

world works. Or even more importantly, this

42:22

is the way the world can work. Like there are

42:24

times that like this sort of wonder

42:26

like is around you and oh my

42:29

God, sometimes it goes away. Like there's

42:31

something useful about just sort

42:33

of like realizing how radically things can

42:35

change. And how like at one point

42:38

these birds darken the sky and they are no

42:40

more. Like then what is it that is around

42:42

me all the time that I'm taking for granted

42:45

that I might engage with more deeply. Yeah,

42:47

and how can you communicate that to somebody such that

42:49

they remember it too? One

42:51

of the things that I learned from one of my sort of

42:54

mentors, but just like a writer I looked up to, SL

42:56

Price, Scott Price, is just

42:58

how he approached kickers and endings, which is

43:00

that you want the last line of something

43:03

to be a bell that is ringing in

43:05

someone's head. Yeah. And

43:07

such that when you stop reading it

43:09

or you stop listening to it, I

43:11

mean that literal sense, you're still hearing

43:13

it. Yeah,

43:15

I sometimes think about it as like, I

43:19

love going to movies in the middle of the day and

43:21

you walk out and you forget that it's daytime and

43:24

to have been just moved by something really

43:26

wonderful and having your day change by art

43:28

or by a beautifully told

43:31

story. What I want to

43:33

try to do is I want to move

43:35

you and give you that experience. Sometimes

43:37

I like the kicker. I think about it as like a

43:40

tiny little note that I passed you so that you can

43:42

open and be like, oh, that's what that thing is about.

43:45

Actually, thinking about what

43:47

are the through lines

43:55

through any given episode, but also

43:58

your whole catalog. Yeah. does

44:00

feel like we're all gonna die

44:03

is a real key aspect of it. Sure. I

44:05

mean, it is does come with

44:08

the territory. Part of it is like,

44:10

you know, if I'm telling some story

44:12

about this remarkable athlete who had this

44:14

incredible triumph on some level,

44:17

I'm just like, it's never that satisfying

44:19

because the truth matters. What is often so

44:21

interesting to me is like, well, what

44:23

else do you do? There's a story from

44:26

the podcast about this woman who swam the English Channel

44:28

and she became the second woman to do it. And

44:30

for a long time, I was like, well, what's, you

44:32

know, that's not a story, but ultimately

44:34

it's becomes a story about keeping going, that it's

44:36

actually okay to be the second to do it.

44:38

That like it is in the doing that there's

44:40

this pride. After landing

44:43

Florence got into the accompanying boat and returned

44:45

immediately to France. You might think of course

44:47

that conquering the channel would be enough swimming

44:49

for a bit, but not for Miss Chadwick.

44:51

Oh no, she was soon in the sea

44:53

again and she obviously has the know how.

44:57

She then like went around the world, like

44:59

swimming, like any channel that needed crossing. This

45:01

was her own comment. Hello folks. I'm

45:04

feeling fine after my big swim. Like

45:07

any place where people are like, boy, it

45:09

seems far over there. She'd be like, I'm

45:11

going to be the first person to swim

45:13

at these lesser channels. Yes. But there's something

45:16

really beautiful to me about the keeping going.

45:18

And there's something really beautiful to me in

45:20

the right arm, breathe, left arm, breathe of

45:22

these repeated movements that does sort of resonate.

45:24

But ultimately a thing that ties

45:26

these things all together is that

45:30

everybody dies. And I find it

45:32

very useful to remember that this is

45:34

the time that this person had. And

45:36

here I am in 2024 and

45:39

this is the life that I get to live. Like

45:41

every couple of weeks I sit down

45:43

and I put on, like I

45:46

start to imagine and start to conjure these

45:48

spaces and think about these other people's lives.

45:50

And it helps ground me in that way.

45:52

Yeah. You know, I get the sense, you

45:54

know, part of the kindred aspect that

45:56

I feel with your show is that

45:58

however futile in the The big picture

46:00

this mission is, we are trying

46:02

to make stuff that lasts. Sure. Even

46:06

while it's ephemeral. Even while we know

46:08

we are the raccoon dipping cotton candy

46:10

into water, then wondering where did our

46:13

beautiful treat just go? For

46:15

as ephemeral as it is, and for the fact that we

46:17

have just dipped cotton candy in the water, and it has

46:19

disappeared and dissipated and the water just slightly pink, and that's

46:21

the only thing that we can hold on to, it's

46:26

those things. It's that I will carry that

46:28

with me, that that is now in my

46:30

sort of personal memory palace. All of the

46:32

stuff that we are doing, besides the fact

46:35

that we will all die. Things

46:37

will crumble to dust. It is only the Shakespeare's and

46:40

the McCartney's and the Lennon's that will persevere, and for

46:42

who knows how long. Yeah, I was gonna say, I

46:44

don't know. How much longer they got at this point.

46:46

It's exactly right. And this book that I have written

46:49

truly may not sell very many things, but at

46:52

the same time, the

46:54

person that finds it and the person that flips through it

46:57

that gets knocked on their ass by one

47:00

story, that little thing

47:02

will live on. Yeah. Nate DeMeo, thank

47:04

you for leaving a little bit of

47:06

sweetness in

47:08

the waters perhaps of these lesser channels. Such

47:10

a mind. Very excited to be here, really

47:12

am. This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out,

47:24

a Metal Arc Media production. And

47:27

I'll talk to you next time. So

47:30

this episode of the Memory Palace was

47:55

not an episode of the Memory Palace. I'm

47:58

delighted to have shared. That episode from Pablo.

48:00

Tori finds out, truly one of my

48:02

favorite shows. My show is

48:04

not funded by a sports

48:07

gambling network. It is a member

48:10

of Radiotopia, independently owned podcast

48:12

who have banded together under

48:15

the banner of truth,

48:17

injustice and of PRX, a not-for-profit public media

48:19

company. If you would like to support what

48:21

we do, what the memory

48:24

palace is, what independence means in this crazy

48:26

media landscape. And I will tell you for

48:28

as much as I love Pablo's show and

48:30

I think it is as good as anything,

48:33

gosh, like I am so happy to

48:35

not have to think about the algorithm

48:38

all the time. I am so happy

48:40

not to have conversations about where my

48:42

money is coming from because the

48:44

money is just coming from folks like you. If

48:47

you want to join the memory palace,

48:50

it help make the show possible. You

48:53

can donate today at radiotopia.fm slash donate. If

48:55

you'd like to also support me, a great

48:57

way to do that right now is to

48:59

buy my book or my audio book. You

49:02

can get it hopefully wherever books are sold on

49:06

all your various websites on bookshop.org

49:09

or at your local bookstore. I will also

49:11

be doing a little bit of an East Coast swing

49:13

in the first week of December. I

49:15

will be doing book readings and some other

49:18

book events, some live events of different types.

49:20

You can go to the memory palace dot

49:23

us slash events.