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boom. This is a true

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crime in real-time update from

1:28

True Crime Today and the

1:30

Hidden Killers podcast. possible.

1:34

I finished the article with Alex

1:36

and she was like, so what

1:38

do you want to do for

1:40

the photo? And I was like, well,

1:42

I'll tell you what I don't do. I'm

1:44

not going to capital, I'm not

1:46

putting on a fucking uniform, I'm

1:49

staring off distantly into the American

1:51

flag behind me and all this

1:53

shit. And I was like, I

1:55

tell you, I want to bring

1:57

my dog, a cooler beer, and a wall.

2:00

lawn chair and I want to sit

2:02

on the west front of the capital

2:04

and drink beer and you guys can

2:06

take pictures of it. Oh, I had

2:08

a call Nancy Pelosi who was a

2:11

speaker at the time mission for us.

2:13

So she's like, she's like, so what

2:15

do you want to do? And I was

2:17

like, oh, man, we're just going to take

2:19

some pictures. And she's like, okay,

2:22

nothing crazy. Right. And then later on

2:24

that day, she calls me back.

2:26

She's like, Michael. Were

2:28

you drinking beer on the

2:30

west side of the Capitol?

2:33

Hey folks, my guest

2:35

today on the Michael

2:38

Steele podcast is none

2:40

other than Michael Fanon.

2:42

He spent two decades

2:44

with the Metropolitan Police

2:46

Department and here in

2:48

DC where I grew

2:51

up. On January 6th,

2:53

however, 2021, he responded

2:55

to the capital attack

2:57

on his own. What happened

2:59

that day changed the course of his

3:01

life. Since then, he's become a

3:03

vocal critic of how the events

3:06

of January 6th have been downplayed

3:08

by politicians, law enforcement,

3:10

and the media. Once a Trump

3:13

supporter, he's been open about how

3:15

the experience shifted his views.

3:17

Michael is the author of

3:19

hold the line, the insurrection, and

3:21

one cops battle for America's soul.

3:24

It's a candid account of that

3:26

day and what it means for

3:28

the future of American democracy.

3:30

We get into that, but we

3:33

get into so much more peel

3:35

back the curtain on this young

3:37

man who has had a very

3:39

life-changing experience as a result of

3:42

January 6th. We're going to get

3:44

into and talk about it right

3:46

here on the Michael Steele podcast

3:48

coming up right after this. Hey

3:50

folks, welcome to the Michael Steele

3:52

podcast. I'm excited as always when

3:54

I see Michael Fanon in the

3:57

room and I'm glad he's here

3:59

with us. back for another conversation.

4:01

And Michael, you're doing well, brother,

4:03

you're looking good. Have a good

4:06

Easter and all that good stuff.

4:08

Yeah, man, just, you know, time

4:11

with the family, took my

4:13

kids to the O's game on Sunday,

4:15

which, you know, was bitter sweet. The

4:17

weather was, yeah. The kids had blast,

4:20

but the score was atrocious. So I

4:22

love my O's, but, man, they got

4:24

to, they got to work out the

4:26

bullpen thing. It's crazy, you

4:28

know, it's crazy before we

4:30

get into stuff that's in

4:32

some sense not as important,

4:35

but is I guess, because it

4:37

affects our democracy. You know, sports

4:39

is one of those things that

4:41

it crosses so many lines, which

4:44

is why all the crazy stuff

4:46

that Trump and his folks were

4:48

doing on trying to, you know,

4:51

take out race and act like

4:53

it's not a part of any

4:55

storyline. It has been a big

4:57

storyline in sports, but what it

4:59

says is how galvanizing it is

5:01

and whether or not you are

5:03

a Republican or Democratic conservative progress

5:05

or whatever the label you want

5:08

to slap me and stuff, when

5:10

you look at your sports team

5:12

like you just said, and they

5:14

don't do shit about their about

5:16

their bench in the off season.

5:18

It doesn't matter what your politics

5:20

are. Absolutely. Not just

5:22

funny too, because like I've

5:24

had a lot of bad

5:26

experiences out in public, you

5:29

know, pleasant, but never ever

5:31

at a sports event, which

5:33

is great. Yeah, right? It's just, that's

5:35

the way it is. Yeah, so let's

5:37

get into some of that a little

5:40

bit. You know, the one thing I

5:42

have, from the very beginning,

5:44

and I've said this both

5:46

privately and publicly and

5:49

publicly about you, I

5:51

was just struck about

5:53

the commanding presence

5:56

you have. I could

5:58

see as a law. enforcement

6:01

official back in the day

6:03

for DC, that your brand

6:05

was one of an officer

6:07

who took his job seriously,

6:09

an officer who appreciated the

6:11

responsibility that the citizens bestowed,

6:13

and the responsibility of actually

6:15

carrying out that public service.

6:17

And it is something that

6:20

I think was not appreciated

6:22

a lot by the public.

6:24

at the time of the

6:26

January 6th insurrection, and even

6:28

since that what it takes

6:30

to be a man or

6:32

woman in uniform, both military,

6:34

police. etc. And I've always

6:36

found that about you, not

6:38

blowing smoke and all of

6:41

that. It's just, you know,

6:43

I get a vibe about

6:45

people. I just do. It's

6:47

a, you know, it can

6:49

be a blessing or a

6:51

curse sometimes. And I've made

6:53

some bad misjudgments, Ryan Spreevas,

6:55

along the way. But, you

6:57

know, you just strike me

6:59

and struck me as someone

7:02

who did what he had

7:04

to do on that day.

7:06

continues to do that, even

7:08

though you're not in uniform

7:10

anymore, in a way that

7:12

I think the public respects

7:14

you and to the point

7:16

about you're getting shit from

7:18

folks when you're out in

7:20

public, that's because they know

7:23

what you stand for and

7:25

they're afraid of that. And

7:27

so they want to attack

7:29

and try to tear it

7:31

down and demean it. But

7:33

I think a lot of

7:35

people see otherwise. How do

7:37

you how do you carry

7:39

that weight? And I put

7:41

all that on your shoulder.

7:43

But how do you carry

7:46

that weight, man? Because it's

7:48

it's hard. I mean, I

7:50

think a lot of people

7:52

don't appreciate what that me

7:54

politicians are one thing. We,

7:56

you know, we're all into

7:58

the titles and the bullshit

8:00

of sitting around trying to

8:02

do legislation or be a

8:04

chief executive. But to be

8:07

on the streets every day

8:09

in a way that police

8:11

officers are, says something. about

8:13

the men in blue and

8:15

the women in blue? Yeah,

8:17

I mean, my experience now,

8:19

like, I draw a lot

8:21

from my experience as a

8:23

police officer. I tell people

8:25

all the time, you know,

8:28

I get called names out

8:30

in public and whatnot. Well,

8:32

it ain't the first time

8:34

that I've experienced that. I

8:36

was a cop. Exactly. So,

8:38

you know, there's that. And

8:40

then, you know, having to

8:42

keep your composure, obviously, like

8:44

you know, that, you know,

8:46

a lot of this, these

8:49

interactions, the point of it

8:51

is to bait you into

8:53

into doing something. And as

8:55

a police officer, you have

8:57

to maintain your composure. And

8:59

I did, I think, for

9:01

the most part throughout my

9:03

career. But yeah, no, I

9:05

mean, I I think that

9:07

having been a cop, especially

9:10

a cop in DC, working

9:12

narcotics for 20 years, you

9:14

need to be prepared me

9:16

for, you know, this experience

9:18

in post-January 6th, and the

9:20

interactions with Republican lawmakers who

9:22

are trying to downplay demean

9:24

or just outright deny deny

9:26

deny deny deny deny. what

9:28

my experience was and not

9:30

feeling as though I, you

9:33

know, needed to be polite.

9:35

Right. And feeling that, you

9:37

know, I had every right

9:39

to tell them exactly how

9:41

I felt, tell them my

9:43

experience, but also to tell

9:45

them what I thought about

9:47

that. And I think that,

9:49

you know, Americans need

9:52

to stop being afraid of

9:54

these people. They're just people.

9:56

Yes. They're just that, yes.

9:58

Yes. And I think we're

10:00

starting to see that the

10:02

American people are, you know,

10:04

they're angry, they're out ways,

10:06

and they're expressing that in

10:08

a way that I've certainly

10:10

never seen in my lifetime,

10:12

or at least since I've

10:14

been paying attention to American

10:16

politics, which is not that,

10:18

not that long or a

10:20

period of time. But I

10:22

just wish that some lawmakers.

10:24

could draw from that and,

10:26

you know, see our elected

10:28

leaders express the same feelings

10:30

because I mean, listen, like,

10:32

I don't know if maybe

10:34

Chuck Schumer is not capable

10:36

of outrage and anger. Maybe

10:38

some of our elected leaders

10:40

have spent way too much

10:42

time in office and are

10:44

no longer in touch with

10:46

the American people and let

10:48

alone their constituents. And so

10:50

they're just incapable of reading

10:52

this moment and acting appropriately.

10:55

But you know, you need

10:57

to step aside. I mean,

10:59

you see a lot of

11:01

lawmakers and I don't want

11:03

to go off on a

11:05

tangent, but you see people

11:07

like Jasmine Crockett. And I

11:09

think that like I don't

11:11

really know what her politics

11:13

are, but I know she

11:15

cares about democracy. And I

11:17

know that capable of expressing

11:19

anger and outrage. And so

11:21

I'm all for it. And

11:23

I think that it probably

11:25

has a lot to do

11:27

with the fact that she's

11:29

experienced all of this before

11:31

she came to Congress. And

11:33

she's still in touch with

11:35

her constituents and the feelings

11:37

that Americans have about MAGA

11:39

and about this president and

11:41

this administration, if you're on

11:43

the opposing side. Yeah. That,

11:45

that. You put your finger

11:47

on, I think, a very

11:49

important pulse that's starting to

11:51

emerge across the country. We've

11:53

seen it in the town

11:55

halls. We see it now

11:57

on the 50 plus. 50

12:00

plus one, which is 50

12:02

protests, 50 states, one message,

12:04

one movement. And it is

12:06

that sense of that frustration

12:08

and concern sort of. put

12:10

together in a way that

12:12

a Jasmine Crockett expressed so

12:14

well when she confronts it

12:16

in the hearings, when Marjorie

12:18

Taylor Green is showing her

12:20

ass, as my mom would

12:22

like to say, and you

12:24

just need to, you know,

12:26

put her back. push her

12:28

back and say, you know,

12:30

you're being ignorant right now,

12:32

you're wrong, and these are

12:34

the facts, this is the

12:36

rule of law, this is

12:38

the situation. I think more

12:40

and more people are appreciating

12:42

that. And I love the

12:44

top line of what you

12:46

said, because it is so

12:48

damn true. They're just people.

12:50

They don't have some magical

12:52

power. There's no fairy dust

12:54

that they they spread. Project

12:56

2020, 2025 was a massive

12:58

document. that individuals who we've

13:00

clearly identified sat down in

13:02

a room over a period

13:05

of time and roped, right?

13:07

It wasn't handed to them,

13:09

you know, by the fingertip

13:11

of God in concrete, right?

13:13

It wasn't. So all that

13:15

shit we can just, we

13:17

can confront it for what

13:19

it is. Donald Trump puts

13:21

his pants on the same

13:23

way you and I do,

13:25

although probably with more difficulty.

13:27

And the reality of it

13:29

is he's just a man

13:31

too. And one thing that

13:33

I will say that Donald

13:35

Trump is done is among

13:37

a lot of other things,

13:39

but in this respect, it's

13:41

important. He's exposed and sort

13:43

of taken down the veneer

13:45

that we as a citizen

13:47

citizenry has put up around

13:49

the White House, around the

13:51

president, which allowed us to

13:53

have a blind eye to

13:55

the shenanigans of John F.

13:57

Kennedy. to ignore or sort

13:59

of try to explain away

14:01

the behavior of Richard Nixon.

14:03

The reality is now that

14:05

these are men and possibly

14:08

one day a woman should

14:10

be a one day a

14:12

woman who are just human

14:14

beings that we have put

14:16

in these positions. And so

14:18

the power ultimately rests with

14:20

what we decide and what

14:22

we do as our founders

14:24

made it very clear we

14:26

the people are the government.

14:28

And so we no longer

14:30

have to pretend. that the

14:32

emperor has no clothes on.

14:34

He doesn't. He's now been

14:36

fully exposed for what he

14:38

is and what they're doing.

14:40

And so I really appreciate

14:42

the way you put that

14:44

because it is something as

14:46

a police officer you would

14:48

see every day when you

14:50

pulled over someone with a

14:52

title, all right? You addressed

14:54

them the same way you

14:56

would address anyone without a

14:58

title. And if they fall

15:00

within the criminal justice system

15:02

a certain way, they will

15:04

be dealt with the way

15:06

anybody else would be dealt

15:08

with. And that is an

15:10

important lesson from the 34

15:13

convictions that Donald Trump now

15:15

holds as a convicted felon.

15:17

He is no different than

15:19

any other convicted felon in

15:21

the country except he happens

15:23

to be president because we

15:25

put his ass there, right?

15:27

We did that. And so

15:29

we now suffer the consequences

15:31

of putting a convicted felon

15:33

in charge. It would be

15:35

like if you ran a

15:37

Fortune 500 company and you

15:39

put someone who was convicted

15:41

on 34 counts of embezzlement

15:43

and fraud and theft in

15:45

charge of your company, you

15:47

go and get what you're

15:49

going yet. Right. Yeah, here

15:51

we are getting. Yeah. How

15:53

do you, you know, it's

15:55

funny, there was a piece

15:57

that was out earlier this

15:59

year that by Alex Morris

16:01

of Rolling Stone. who noted

16:03

the headline was Michael Fanon

16:05

has a lot to say

16:07

about the January six pardons,

16:09

including his own and it

16:11

says it goes on and

16:13

it talks about how you

16:15

didn't ask for a pardon.

16:18

You don't want a pardon.

16:20

Talk a little bit about

16:22

what why you feel that

16:24

way, why you felt that

16:26

way at the time. What

16:28

do you think is happening?

16:30

What does it mean when

16:32

these things started coming out

16:34

that Trump was looking to

16:36

part all these people and

16:38

do all this stuff? Talk

16:40

a little bit about your

16:42

thoughts there. Well, first, like,

16:44

with regards to the pardon

16:46

for me, I'm not a,

16:48

listen, I'm a high school

16:50

dropout, but I'm not a

16:52

legal scholar. not a constitutional

16:54

scholar. But I do know

16:56

the legal system from a

16:58

layman's perspective or a police

17:00

officer's perspective. And I know

17:02

that our justice system is

17:04

based on precedent. And I

17:06

know that there's no precedent

17:08

for giving a preemptive pardon.

17:10

And so, you know, while

17:12

I understand, um, why President

17:14

Biden provided me and some

17:16

others with those pardons because

17:18

he felt we may be,

17:21

you know, targeted by the

17:23

Trump administration, though we did

17:25

nothing wrong. I knew that

17:27

what I needed to be

17:29

protected from was the endless

17:31

litigation that would be, that

17:33

would go along with, you

17:35

know, the investigations and a

17:37

pardon does not prevent any

17:39

of that from happening. You

17:41

know, the Trump administration, if

17:43

they want to, can try

17:45

to trump up some charges,

17:47

no pun intended and come

17:49

after me. And then it's

17:51

up to me to first

17:53

invoke the pardon. Then, you

17:55

know, we're probably going to

17:57

end up going to the

17:59

Supreme Court. as to whether

18:01

or not those pardons are

18:03

legitimate. Meanwhile, I've gone broke

18:05

like a thousand times over

18:07

trying to defend myself because

18:09

I don't have, you know,

18:11

significant means. I'm a regular

18:13

guy. But yeah, no, so

18:15

I guess it was kind

18:17

of two part. One, I

18:19

didn't want one for the

18:21

optics of it, but two,

18:23

I didn't want one because

18:26

I don't think it's gonna

18:28

make a shit of a

18:30

difference anyways. So, you know,

18:32

that was that. Yeah, go

18:34

ahead. No, I was going

18:36

to say that that's important

18:38

because when you look at

18:40

the contrast between what Biden

18:42

was offering and proposing in

18:44

terms of the pardons that

18:46

he was putting on the

18:48

table for those related to

18:50

January 6th versus what Trump

18:52

was had done when he

18:54

came in shortly after that.

18:56

period after Biden made those

18:58

offers, really offers up a

19:00

contrast, but the result is

19:02

the same in the sense

19:04

that as we see with

19:06

some of the Trump pardons,

19:08

there are questions about them

19:10

and whether or not they'll

19:12

be litigated down the road,

19:14

remains to be seen, you

19:16

know for sure the Biden

19:18

pardons would have been, the

19:20

Trump people would have come

19:22

in immediately to your point.

19:24

try to do an in

19:26

run up in that and

19:28

really question Biden's ability to

19:31

use and employ a pardon

19:33

power while at the same

19:35

time Trump was doing exactly

19:37

that for people he liked.

19:39

And whether or not the

19:41

system could actually make the

19:43

distinction between the two was

19:45

a little bit problematic. But

19:47

it does it it does

19:49

raise the broader question I

19:51

think of. how our government

19:53

now sees itself functioning in

19:55

this somewhat bifurcated way when

19:57

a democratic is in charge

19:59

versus when a Republican is

20:01

in charge. And like you

20:03

said, you know, you're just

20:05

an everyday guy. And you

20:07

know, you pay your taxes,

20:09

you're raising your kids, you're

20:11

trying to keep the wife

20:13

from being too mad at

20:15

you on any given day.

20:17

You know, you're doing these

20:19

things that people do every

20:21

day of their lives. And

20:23

yet we're living in this

20:25

time where we're asked. One

20:27

of the benefits, I think,

20:29

of being, which I something

20:31

I think you appreciate, of

20:33

being a police officer is

20:36

that you didn't have to,

20:38

right? You, the only side

20:40

you were on was the

20:42

side of the Constitution and

20:44

the oath you swore to

20:46

protect and defend it and

20:48

the citizens you serve. It's

20:50

how do you, how do

20:52

your fellow officers now, some

20:54

four years where the 2020,

20:56

well, five years later, feel

20:58

about and perceive this system,

21:00

particularly those who are still

21:02

serving in it on the

21:04

Capitol Hill or in DC

21:06

Police. Um, what are you

21:08

hearing from them? I mean,

21:10

within the DC Police Department,

21:12

um, you know, I think

21:14

there's just there's a sense

21:16

of, um, or at least

21:18

there was a sense of

21:20

disbelief that, uh, number one,

21:22

this could happen. that is

21:24

like thousands of Americans attacking

21:26

the capital. And it would

21:28

be so quickly forgotten. I

21:30

mean, listen, like, I get

21:32

a lot of attention because

21:34

I've been very outspoken. Those

21:36

officers, the ones that continued

21:39

to do the job, the

21:41

ones that showed up for

21:43

work on January 7th while

21:45

I was in the hospital,

21:47

they didn't receive the accolades

21:49

or the praise or, you

21:51

know, all of the things

21:53

that like myself and Harry

21:55

Dunn and Sergeant Ginnell and

21:57

even Danny Hodges received. Right.

21:59

And just like it was

22:01

life continued. And then they

22:03

started, they experienced, you know,

22:05

all the horrible things that

22:07

I experienced without any of

22:09

the adulation. You know, they

22:11

saw Republican lawmakers downplay and,

22:13

you know, deny what happened

22:15

that day. And they've seen

22:17

Republican officials that have now

22:19

been appointed by the president

22:21

or, you know, people who've

22:23

been elected on the idea

22:25

that they think that, you

22:27

know, the people that assaulted

22:29

cops were patriots. the president

22:31

included in that, and that

22:33

the police officers that day

22:35

were the aggressors and that

22:37

they were somehow the enemy.

22:39

And so I think within

22:41

the DC police and capital

22:44

police, these guys are just

22:46

disillusioned. Yeah. And kind of

22:48

just like, well, fuck it.

22:51

what's I think adds insult

22:54

to injury is that the

22:56

greater law enforcement community that

22:58

is like every agency that

23:00

essentially didn't respond to the

23:03

capital that day and doesn't

23:05

know the realities of January

23:07

6th has essentially sided with

23:09

Trump. Right. And you know

23:11

you see that in like

23:14

the national fraternal order of

23:16

police. I mean, just the

23:18

idea of the largest law

23:20

enforcement union in America endorsing

23:23

a man who clearly, in

23:25

front of all of our

23:27

eyes, incited his followers to

23:29

attack police officers at the

23:31

Capitol on January 6th, and

23:34

then pardoned them. 500 plus

23:36

individuals who were charged with

23:38

assaulting cops and either were

23:40

found guilty at trial or

23:43

pled guilty before trial. The

23:45

six individuals that assaulted me

23:47

that were charged all pled

23:49

guilty. No one went to

23:52

trial. And they're all free.

23:54

Some of them sentenced, you

23:56

know, upwards of 12 years

23:58

in some pretty vile and

24:00

vicious assaults and Trump just

24:03

made it all go away.

24:05

And so, yeah, it. Yeah,

24:07

the discuss from that that

24:09

a lot of us felt

24:12

is palpable. I thought, though,

24:14

you wrote a piece in

24:16

your sub stack on the

24:18

18th of this month, and

24:20

I highly recommend folks to

24:23

read what Michael wrote, which

24:25

was an appeal to American

24:27

law enforcement officers, an open

24:29

letter to them. And you

24:32

say in part, you, the

24:34

American law enforcement officer, have

24:36

been placed in an incredibly

24:38

difficult situation. One where you

24:41

must choose between obeying the

24:43

immoral and often illegal orders

24:45

given to you by your

24:47

president, the attorney general, your

24:49

state and federal prosecutors, and

24:52

even those that lead your

24:54

respective agencies, orders that violate

24:56

our constitution, which we all

24:58

took and those to uphold

25:01

against enemies both foreign and

25:03

domestic. Now choosing to capitulate

25:05

and follow these orders may

25:07

bring you both promotion and

25:10

adulation. and choosing not to

25:12

follow such orders could bring

25:14

disciplinary action against you, termination

25:16

from employment or even criminal

25:18

prosecution. That said, you have

25:21

the benefit of history and

25:23

the lessons it has taught

25:25

humanity. This lawless and immoral

25:27

administration will be defeated, and

25:30

when it is, you will

25:32

have to answer this simple

25:34

yet profound question. Which side

25:36

were you on? You can't

25:38

get any planar than that.

25:41

Yeah, no, I mean, earlier

25:43

in the piece, I talked

25:45

about two moments in my

25:47

career, which, you know, had

25:50

pretty much all but gone

25:52

forgotten until after January 6th.

25:54

Because, you know, I was

25:56

a cop, a DC cop

25:59

for 20 years. I don't

26:01

think I ever had a

26:03

conversation outside of a classroom

26:05

environment in which I thought

26:07

about or talked about my

26:10

role in protecting our Constitution

26:12

and ensuring that Americans had

26:14

a right to everything that's

26:16

afforded under that's I mean,

26:19

I wasn't violating the Constitution.

26:21

I certainly wasn't thinking of

26:23

myself as someone who was

26:25

responsible for, you know, for

26:27

making sure that that every

26:30

American, you know, had their,

26:32

you know, enjoyed those, those

26:34

rights. That's right. Yeah. And

26:36

so I guess like the

26:39

point of that was that

26:41

I went to these, seminars

26:43

in which we, you know,

26:45

one of them was at

26:48

the Holocaust Museum and we

26:50

talked about German police and

26:52

their role in, you know,

26:54

arresting Jews for the simple

26:56

fact of being Jews and

26:59

also their involvement in seizing

27:01

property from these individuals and,

27:03

you know, redistributing it amongst

27:05

the Nazi party and how

27:08

moral that was and how

27:10

outrageous that was. And I

27:12

remember being outraged myself and

27:14

thinking like Why the hell

27:17

am I here? This would

27:19

never happen in America. I

27:21

would never get involved in

27:23

anything like this. And the

27:25

second one was a little

27:28

bit more difficult, I think,

27:30

for me to dismiss. But

27:32

I went to the National

27:34

Museum of African American History

27:37

in DC. And I remember

27:39

sitting through a lecture and

27:41

learning about how law enforcement's

27:43

role in capturing runaway slaves

27:45

and law. Enforcing Jim Crow.

27:48

which I think, you know,

27:50

we should all agree, we

27:52

should all agree were immoral,

27:54

unethical, and, you know, it

27:57

was abomination. The genesis of

27:59

the creation of police forces

28:01

in the country was to

28:03

be about the business of

28:06

going out and capturing slaves

28:08

and keeping them in check.

28:10

So you're right. I mean,

28:12

I, unfortunately, when I started

28:14

coming to these, you know,

28:17

realizations, I had already, you

28:19

know, was no longer a

28:21

cop, but at first I

28:23

started thinking about like how

28:26

valuable a lesson that would

28:28

be when, you know, cops

28:30

that police communities of color,

28:32

especially white cops like myself,

28:34

who were trying to figure

28:37

out why there's all this

28:39

fucking resentment and anger that

28:41

I feel is undeserved. Well,

28:43

if you go back, not

28:46

even a hundred years, go

28:48

back 50 years, and you

28:50

can see why those communities,

28:52

have such disdain for fucking

28:55

for law enforcement officers. And

28:57

so that, you know, it's

28:59

like, listen, at the end

29:01

of the day, we've got

29:03

to do our jobs. But

29:06

that should be in your

29:08

mind when you're doing your

29:10

job, because it's going to

29:12

make you a police officer.

29:15

But then, you know, fast

29:17

forward to today and looking

29:19

at, you know, these videos

29:21

of ICE agents, you know,

29:24

wearing masks, approaching individuals. You

29:26

know, listen, the Constitution, if

29:28

you're a police officer and

29:30

you're watching this, the Constitution

29:32

applies to everyone that's in

29:35

the United States, not just

29:37

American citizens. Every single human

29:39

being that is inside of

29:41

our borders is entitled to

29:44

the rights provided by the

29:46

Constitution, one of those being

29:48

due process and watching these

29:50

agents violate individuals due process

29:52

simply because Donald Trump views

29:55

it as inconvenient, and just

29:57

wants to fulfill his promise

29:59

to his constituents. in getting

30:01

rid of all of these

30:04

people as quickly as humanly

30:06

possible. And, you know, I

30:08

would hope that they would

30:10

think about this, you know,

30:13

just from a human perspective

30:15

and like, what what what

30:17

if this was your relative

30:19

or your mother or your

30:21

father or your sister and

30:24

then also being able to

30:26

see it for what it

30:28

is. Yeah, God damn litmus

30:30

test. Donald Trump. and MAGA

30:33

are targeting communities that they

30:35

feel that the average American

30:37

cannot relate to, can't empathize

30:39

with, and they're violating their

30:42

rights. So who's to say

30:44

that eventually that doesn't, I

30:46

mean, he's already talking about

30:48

sending Americans to a prison,

30:50

you know, in a foreign

30:53

country. Well, you know, I

30:55

think most Americans, at least

30:57

the ones that I talk

30:59

to, they're like, well, fucking

31:02

so what we save a

31:04

couple bucks sending American you

31:06

know these criminals well what

31:08

happens when the criminal is

31:10

just somebody who has an

31:13

opposing viewpoint from right there

31:15

you know what happens when

31:17

the the criminal is a

31:19

police officer who refuses to

31:22

obey an unlawful order from

31:24

their superiors mm-hmm and there

31:26

removed from the country, sent

31:28

to some place where no

31:31

one can communicate with them.

31:33

They can't get the benefit

31:35

of legal counsel. I mean,

31:37

shit, we can't even get,

31:39

or we finally got a

31:42

senator who was able to

31:44

go in there and, you

31:46

know, see this gentleman in

31:48

the prison system. It's just,

31:51

people just need to care

31:53

more, empathize more. understand the,

31:55

you know, or at least

31:57

have some compassion for their

31:59

neighbors and their experience, which

32:02

may be dramatic. different from

32:04

them. Yeah, and that's so

32:06

so especially true given the

32:08

fact that as you noted

32:11

at the very beginning that

32:13

our Constitution protects all of

32:15

us regardless of our status.

32:17

And as I've said repeatedly

32:20

with respect to Kilmara Brego

32:22

Garcia, It doesn't matter if

32:24

he is an MS-13 kingpen

32:26

or if he's Mother Teresa.

32:28

In either situation, when he's

32:31

brought into our criminal justice

32:33

system, due process attaches. The

32:35

Constitution is there to protect

32:37

him. And we need to

32:40

make sure as citizens that

32:42

we stand with that ideal

32:44

because to your very point,

32:46

when we stop caring about

32:49

what happens to a Brago

32:51

Garcia, we've stopped caring about

32:53

what happens to ourselves because

32:55

he has the same rights

32:57

that we have. Regardless of

33:00

how he got here, legally,

33:02

illegally, regardless of whether he

33:04

has good papers or bad

33:06

papers, regardless of his behavior,

33:09

and none of us are

33:11

condoning behavior. This is about

33:13

process and rights that attach

33:15

to you when our criminal

33:17

justice system says habeas corpus,

33:20

we have the body. And

33:22

when we have the body,

33:24

those rights attach. We're going

33:26

to take a quick break.

33:29

We're having a quick conversation,

33:31

my man, Michael Fanone, more

33:33

with Michael, right here on

33:35

the Michael Steele podcast after

33:38

this. Politics, especially these days,

33:40

as you're probably well aware,

33:42

is a tough subject to

33:44

tackle. It can feel hard

33:46

to wrap your head around,

33:49

plain incomprehensible, or just too

33:51

much. Too often it feels

33:53

like a whirlwind of information.

33:55

And that's why the NPR

33:58

Politics Podcasts is where you

34:00

should go to begin to

34:02

decode what goes down in

34:04

Washington and what every decision

34:06

out there might mean for

34:09

you and your family. First

34:11

impressions are always important. All

34:13

this week, the NPR Politics

34:15

podcast is unpacking the first

34:18

100 days of Trump's presidency.

34:20

They're tackling what's been done,

34:22

what's to come, and what

34:24

might change. And as always,

34:27

what it means for you.

34:29

Every episode makes it easy

34:31

for you to understand what's

34:33

going on from the complete

34:35

restructuring of the federal government

34:38

to immigration policy, tariffs, and

34:40

trade. These 100 days have

34:42

been monumental, which trumps promises

34:44

is Trump actually going to

34:47

keep? Will his executive orders

34:49

and spur the moment decision-making

34:51

change the U.S. and your

34:53

life in a long term?

34:56

Every day, the NPR Politics

34:58

Podcast will focus on one

35:00

thing and boil it down

35:02

to 15 minutes or less.

35:04

Think of it as your

35:07

political multivitamin. Now I was

35:09

really fascinated by how host

35:11

Tamara Keith and Franco Ordines

35:13

and Domenico Montanero broke down

35:16

how Project 2025 influenced Trump's

35:18

first 100 days. politics might

35:20

move fast, but you can

35:22

count on the NPR politics

35:24

podcast to declutter it all

35:27

just for you. Listen now

35:29

to their NPR politics podcast

35:31

only from NPR, wherever you

35:33

get your podcast. Welcome

35:37

back everybody to the Michael

35:39

Steele podcast. We have Michael

35:41

Fano, two decades with the

35:43

Metropolitan Police Department here in

35:45

Washington DC. My hometown where

35:47

I grew up in Petworth.

35:49

What precinct were you in

35:51

Michael when you were a

35:53

DC cop? I worked out

35:55

of the first district my

35:58

entire career. Yeah, first. Yeah.

36:00

Okay. Start off over on

36:02

school street, which I don't

36:04

even think exists anymore. No.

36:06

And then we moved over

36:08

to M Street, 101 M

36:10

Street, the old elementary schoolhouse

36:12

that they turned into the

36:14

police station. So yeah, my

36:16

whole career. Awesome. D. C.

36:19

But where were you born

36:21

and raised? I was born

36:23

in D. C. I was

36:25

born at greater Southeast Hospital.

36:27

Really? Yeah. I grew up

36:29

in Northern Virginia. Yeah, I

36:31

was born at Andrews Air

36:33

Force Base and grew up

36:35

in Petworth and it just,

36:37

you know, DC's my home

36:40

and and so very happy

36:42

for the commanders in the

36:44

Nats and, you know, a

36:46

little respectability. We've been in

36:48

the desert for a while

36:50

in our sports, going back

36:52

to our sports conversation. Yeah,

36:54

no, so I grew up

36:56

in O's fans, so I

36:58

never made that transition. Well,

37:01

yes, that's right. Yeah. I

37:03

was a, you know, you

37:05

know, commanders fan before they

37:07

became the commanders. And Dan

37:09

Schneider just destroyed my to

37:11

to watch. And so as

37:13

soon as the Ravens came,

37:15

you know, to Baltimore, I

37:17

jumped on the Ravens bandwagon

37:19

and I'm not ever going

37:22

to get off. No, I

37:24

love the Ravens. So I

37:26

remember more actions there. The

37:28

guy is the greatest quarterback

37:30

that ever lived. Who's that?

37:32

Lamar Jackson. Oh, Lamar. Yeah,

37:34

Lamar. It's just phenomenal. And

37:36

I think we got a

37:38

Lamar protege in the commanders

37:40

in Jaylin, but you know,

37:43

we'll see how that how

37:45

that plays out. But the

37:47

reality is I remember when

37:49

the cults left Baltimore and

37:51

what a shock that was

37:53

to the system. And I

37:55

also remember when. the senators

37:57

left Washington because that was

37:59

my team growing up. My

38:01

daddy used to take me.

38:04

to the little to Griffin

38:06

Stadium right there on Georgia

38:08

Avenue across the world. It's

38:10

now Howard University used to

38:12

have their old bakery, the

38:14

Wonder Bread Bakery. Remember that?

38:16

Back today and man, just

38:18

being able to see those

38:20

games, I still have the.

38:22

the fly ball from one

38:25

of the senators that back

38:27

that hit that ball and

38:29

my dad, it hit this

38:31

woman's shoulder behind me and

38:33

bounced into my dad's hands.

38:35

I was like, yes. So

38:37

thank you lady with the

38:39

sore shoulder. But yeah, man,

38:41

it's amazing how you know,

38:43

you look at a city

38:46

like Washington, you look at

38:48

this community, how much has

38:50

changed the struggle it's had

38:52

for its own rights as

38:54

citizens living and growing up.

38:56

in the city. And it

38:58

says so much about, in

39:00

many respects, it's a microcosm

39:02

for the country and what

39:04

the country is going through

39:07

and the limitations that, you

39:09

know, these folks that are

39:11

now in charge want to

39:13

put on the rights we

39:15

have as citizens. We were

39:17

talking about before we went

39:19

to break, you know, the

39:21

impact of, you know, what's

39:23

happening to someone like, and

39:25

others who are being swept

39:28

up by individuals pushed into

39:30

vans and taken away to

39:32

spots unknown, never to be

39:34

heard from or talking about,

39:36

I was talking about earlier

39:38

today in another setting, but

39:40

a young woman who's a

39:42

scientist who's actually been able

39:44

to manipulate research and in

39:46

the... in getting us a

39:49

step closer to securing a

39:51

cure for certain forms of

39:53

cancer. Well, she's from Russia

39:55

and she was coming, I

39:57

think, coming back to the

39:59

country. and had or leaving

40:01

the country and had mistakenly

40:04

had some frog embryos that

40:06

she uses in her research

40:09

in her on her person

40:11

and has been detained

40:13

now two months two months

40:16

because of that. Talking

40:18

to an ice official he

40:20

said oh well the normal

40:22

process before Trump was if

40:24

that had happened they would

40:27

have seized the material. Right.

40:29

Turned it over to the government, the

40:31

government property because she works, she

40:34

works at a lab that is

40:36

supported by the federal government. And

40:38

she would have been given a

40:40

$500 fine for carrying this material

40:43

and that would have been it. Now,

40:45

because of who she is, her nationality,

40:47

Russia, and there's some thinking that

40:49

the Russians are been made aware of

40:52

this and they want her back.

40:54

That's why they're holding her for

40:56

two months. They made to port her

40:58

back to Russia. a place that she

41:00

escaped to come here to do

41:02

research because she couldn't do it

41:04

there and all the other restrictions.

41:07

This is what our government is

41:09

planning to do now and is doing.

41:11

And so it really raises some

41:13

concerns which I think are unique

41:15

from your perspective as a former

41:17

law enforcement officer, which is why

41:19

your appeal to your fellow officers

41:21

still in service is so important.

41:24

As a reminder of what is

41:26

at stake here and what we

41:28

should be valuing. and what we

41:30

should be concerned about. When you're

41:32

looking at, and you touched

41:35

on this, what's happening

41:37

with the massive deportation

41:39

efforts and the role

41:41

that apparently this administration

41:43

wants to play, once

41:46

the law enforcement to

41:48

play in that process, is

41:50

that something that that, if

41:52

there's any resistance to those

41:55

unlawful orders or And that

41:57

that could be some nebulous

41:59

thing. I guess for some

42:01

officers, you know, trying to

42:04

figure out what is an

42:06

unlawful order or what isn't.

42:08

Where does that pressure come

42:10

from? Does it come from

42:13

the leadership inside the police

42:15

force? Or is it something

42:17

that comes from the rank

42:20

and file to the leadership?

42:22

We're not doing that. Yeah,

42:24

no, I mean, in my

42:26

experience, it was always, you

42:29

know, there was a result

42:31

that was demanded by politicians.

42:33

and that those demands were

42:35

put upon, you know, the

42:38

executive level leadership within the

42:40

department, and then the executives

42:42

within the department sent out

42:45

their directives and demanded results

42:47

from their lieutenants on down

42:49

to, you know, to the

42:51

officers themselves. And I think

42:54

that, you know, law enforcement

42:56

is a paramilitary organization. I

42:58

like to say that, you

43:01

know, they invoke that when

43:03

they want to fuck you.

43:05

Any other time, it's like

43:07

a free for all. So,

43:10

this is why I love

43:12

Michael Fanon, folks. It keeps

43:14

it real. But, you know,

43:16

it's, I just think that,

43:19

you know, the point of

43:21

the piece. was to get

43:23

officers thinking about these things

43:26

and their role in them.

43:28

And then also, you know,

43:30

I want to be realistic,

43:32

like disobeying orders, whether they're

43:35

illegal or not. I mean,

43:37

at the end of the

43:39

day, you know, these are

43:42

Trump's police departments. You know,

43:44

these are Pam Bondi's agencies,

43:46

you're not going to find

43:48

relief, you know, inside of

43:51

the inside of the agency.

43:53

Most likely you're going to

43:55

end up being disciplined or

43:57

potentially fired or even worse

44:00

criminally prosecuted. But recognizing the

44:02

fact that, you know, disobeying

44:04

these illegal and immoral orders

44:07

is your, you're fulfilling your

44:09

oath to the Constitution. And

44:11

there's a vast, vast network

44:13

of people out here, outside

44:16

of your agencies, from whom

44:18

you can turn to and

44:20

will defend you. to the

44:23

bitter bitter end. It's something

44:25

that I've experienced and I

44:27

think more and more Americans

44:29

are starting to see that

44:32

there is a community outside

44:34

of these government agencies that's

44:36

willing to go to bat

44:38

for them. You know, it's

44:41

interesting because when I read

44:43

read your piece and when

44:45

I listened to you now

44:48

and I think I have

44:50

a good sense. of your

44:52

vibe when it comes to

44:54

how you're choosing to engage

44:57

in politics or to deal

44:59

with political environments that you

45:01

run into. I noted in

45:04

preparing for our conversation that

45:06

you had a very interesting

45:08

perspective on politics. because in

45:10

the book you wrote and

45:13

when I pull it up

45:15

here, until recently I follow

45:17

politics like the Olympics. I

45:19

only paid attention, close attention

45:22

every four years. And that

45:24

in so many ways sort

45:26

of reflects everybody out there,

45:29

you know, when I'm called

45:31

to, oh, there's an election,

45:33

oh, okay, again, all right,

45:35

and you know, everybody kind

45:38

of sort of sleepily and

45:40

groggily kind of moves to

45:42

the process. January 6th clearly

45:45

changed a lot of that.

45:47

And for individuals like yourself

45:49

who are more deeply involved

45:51

and affected by it, both

45:54

physically as well. well as

45:56

mentally, it creates a different

45:58

look at the process of

46:01

politics and the engagement of

46:03

politics and the influence of

46:05

politics on our system. How

46:07

do you see it now?

46:10

I mean, not so much,

46:12

you know. Maybe running for

46:14

office, I guess, but that

46:16

doesn't strike me as your

46:19

vibe. It doesn't, at least

46:21

right now, I don't get

46:23

that. Harry done, I could

46:26

see. That made a lot

46:28

of sense to me. I

46:30

think there's like, there's too

46:32

many rules when it comes

46:35

to running for office and

46:37

I don't, not much of

46:39

a rule follower. Trust me,

46:42

Michael. I'm not either, so

46:44

you can live from our

46:46

experience, man. I've got 65

46:48

pages in my disciplinary history

46:51

in the police department to

46:53

attest to the fact that

46:55

I was not a rule

46:57

follower. And I'll tell you,

47:00

the vast majority of those

47:02

were for insubordination. Well, look,

47:04

Michael, they fired my ass

47:07

at the RNC because I

47:09

was like, now we're not

47:11

doing this. I mean, I'll

47:13

tell you what, we're doing

47:16

this. I don't

47:18

know. I don't know the

47:20

first thing about how to

47:22

run for office. Like I

47:25

don't even know what form

47:27

to fill out. Never like,

47:29

but I mean, would I

47:32

run? I would do it,

47:34

but it would be only

47:36

while Donald Trump is president.

47:39

Yeah, like I only want

47:41

to be in office while

47:43

Donald Trump is president. And,

47:46

you know, I'll tell you

47:48

what nothing would get through

47:50

the house. because they would

47:53

spend so much time censoring

47:55

me. They wouldn't get to

47:57

fucking one magga bill passed.

48:00

That would be how I fight

48:03

back against. Right. Every two minutes

48:05

I have a speech. Mike will

48:07

be on the floor yet again

48:10

for his two minutes. Well, you

48:12

know, but what that's why I

48:15

said, I just don't see that.

48:17

as part of your future. But

48:19

what I do see, what I

48:22

do recognize, what I think is

48:24

actually more valuable than physically filling

48:26

out the forms and running for

48:29

office and being a member of

48:31

X, Y, Z, is your voice

48:34

in things that you do and

48:36

the sub stack is a good

48:38

example of that. I think people.

48:41

I'm curious and want to hear

48:43

from you, given your experience in

48:46

what and how you talk about

48:48

that experience and how you manifest

48:50

your anger and your frustration at

48:53

what happened and what is happening.

48:55

I think is a really good

48:57

reflection of a lot of people

49:00

out here who aren't going to

49:02

run for office, who aren't going

49:05

to be the senator or the

49:07

congressman or the county executive. but

49:09

are no less interested in making

49:12

sure that whoever is in those

49:14

jobs do the damn job and

49:16

do it in a way in

49:19

which They're mindful at every turn

49:21

that they're real people who are

49:24

affected by their policy decisions that

49:26

are affected by their political shenanigans

49:28

that are affected by their, you

49:31

know, desire to recreate government in

49:33

their own image Um, and that's,

49:36

that is, I think, in many

49:38

respects, more valuable right now than

49:40

actually holding the job. Yeah, no,

49:43

I mean, um, I remember vividly

49:45

I did my first TV interview

49:47

on CNN on the Don Lemon

49:50

show. before the interview, you just

49:52

told me like, listen, you know,

49:55

just, just be honest, you know,

49:57

be honest. And I really did

49:59

take that heart and like, I

50:02

try to tell, I try to

50:04

talk about things using my own

50:07

like personal experiences and they're not

50:09

always, they don't always reflect well

50:11

on me. I mean, I remember

50:14

engaging, you know, trying to engage

50:16

with with Trump supporters, especially pre.

50:18

you know, this most recent election,

50:21

and like listen, you know, I

50:23

understand how you got here, like,

50:26

you know, I was somebody who

50:28

prior to, I would say the

50:30

second half of the Obama administration,

50:33

I never really felt like national

50:35

politics touched me on about it.

50:38

Like there just wasn't, you know,

50:40

it's like every, every administration, the

50:42

pendulum, you know, kind of moved

50:45

a little bit this way and

50:47

a little bit in a little

50:49

bit. And it's, But for the

50:52

most part, you know, it was,

50:54

I never felt like, I never

50:57

made enough money to invest in

50:59

the stock market, so I don't

51:01

know what the hell, you know,

51:04

that's all about. And so it

51:06

just, I don't know, it just

51:08

never affected me. And then for

51:11

the first time, the second half

51:13

of the Obama administration, and we

51:16

started to see all of these

51:18

protests arising from, you know, polarizing

51:20

incidents involving communities of color. And

51:23

listen, like, I'm the first person

51:25

to tell you that law enforcement

51:28

is not above reform or reproach.

51:30

Both are, you know, necessary. That

51:32

being said, I saw a lot

51:35

of politicians jumping on this, you

51:37

know, hate the police bandwagon to

51:39

fund. And I started to see

51:42

how communities, communities that I was

51:44

policing. and all of a sudden

51:47

there was... no longer any respect

51:49

whatsoever from uniform law enforcement. You

51:51

know, the amount of incidents in

51:54

which individuals fought back against the

51:56

cops that were trying to arrest

51:59

them, you know, doubled, tripled. And

52:01

listen, I watched it play out

52:03

in real time. And I remember,

52:06

you know, I was a plainclothes

52:08

guy, I didn't wear a uniform,

52:10

but I would go out and

52:13

I'd sit in, you know, Kava

52:15

on M Street. and watch other

52:18

cops come in in uniform and

52:20

see the way that people treated

52:22

them. I drive past a traffic

52:25

stop where, you know, somebody was

52:27

screaming or yelling or there were

52:29

people coming around, you know, they

52:32

weren't involved in the traffic stop

52:34

at all and they were yelling

52:37

at these cops. And, you know,

52:39

it's like, if you... If you

52:41

want to create an environment where

52:44

police officers don't feel like it's

52:46

us against them, that is not

52:49

the way to go about doing

52:51

it. Because I can tell you

52:53

right now that police officers most

52:56

certainly felt like it was us

52:58

against them scenario. And, you know,

53:00

I fell into that pitfall. I

53:03

started to see things only through,

53:05

you know, my own perspective. and

53:08

how they affected me. And quite

53:10

frankly, I didn't give a shit

53:12

about anyone else in this country.

53:15

I just cared about me as

53:17

a cop and my other cop,

53:20

brothers and sisters. And so I

53:22

saw one party as hating the

53:24

police and I saw another party

53:27

as at least pretending to love

53:29

the police. Right. You know, that

53:31

there was a natural progression to

53:34

vote for, you know, vote in

53:36

your own best, you know, something.

53:39

Yeah, and like, then obviously, you

53:41

know, I've come to regret that

53:43

decision, but more than regret the

53:46

decision on its face, come to

53:48

understand how I came to that

53:50

decision and all the smaller decisions

53:53

that I made along the way

53:55

that were wrong. Yeah. And hoping

53:58

that other people can, you know,

54:00

learn from those mistakes and, you

54:02

know, and then we could get

54:05

back to, I mean, It's really

54:07

hard for me to talk about

54:10

empathy and compassion these days, especially

54:12

after I've had people throw shit

54:14

on my mother and, you know,

54:17

everything else, I'm sure you've experienced

54:19

as well, that comes along being

54:21

an outspoken Trump credit. But, you

54:24

know, that is the solution. It's

54:26

a solution to, you know, all

54:29

these problems involving this lawless administration.

54:31

is simply caring about your neighbor

54:33

and having the courage to do

54:36

something about it. Stand up for

54:38

your neighbor. Michael Fano, folks, I

54:41

hope you appreciate why I admire

54:43

this guy and have mad respect

54:45

for him in his story and

54:48

just listening to his experiences and

54:50

part of that journey, particularly the

54:52

part. Because you answered the question

54:55

I was going to ask before

54:57

I could even ask in this

55:00

about how you could how you

55:02

fall into a trap that is

55:04

is not a good one in

55:07

other words when you're looking at

55:09

the politics and you see one

55:11

side suddenly for inexplicable reasons talking

55:14

about defunding the police and the

55:16

police are bad and and yes

55:19

there are encounters that we all

55:21

know are problematic for for men

55:23

of color in particular but by

55:26

and large as a lot of

55:28

folks were saying at least in

55:31

the black community we need the

55:33

police to come when when this

55:35

shit happening in the neighborhood we

55:38

want y'all to show up. So

55:40

there was just this whole approach

55:42

to sort of demonize and then

55:45

the other party sort of taking

55:47

advantage of that and playing on

55:50

those sympathies and the anger and

55:52

the frustration that was beginning to

55:54

brew within the police department because

55:57

they felt that they were exposed

55:59

unfairly and they felt they weren't

56:02

being protected and they felt that

56:04

people were taking incidences and throwing

56:06

them out in projecting the bad

56:09

behavior one cop on every cop.

56:11

And so you sort of showed

56:13

that art there of that. that

56:16

journey and then on the other

56:18

side of it realizing, hey, these

56:21

guys aren't about us too because

56:23

they called them to the hill

56:25

to attack us. And so it's

56:28

an interesting, interesting situation. Guys like

56:30

yourself find yourself in and how

56:32

you now navigate in that space.

56:35

is an important journey and an

56:37

important story for the country, I

56:40

think. And so I appreciate your

56:42

sharing a lot of it. You're

56:44

doing your sub stack. You have

56:47

in your book, which again, I

56:49

would recommend people if you want

56:52

to get a sense of Michael's

56:54

journey here, hold the line, the

56:56

insurrection, and one cops battle for

56:59

America's soul, get a copy of

57:01

it, because it gives you some

57:03

insights as Michael said, hey, you

57:06

know. I got a sheet too.

57:08

I wasn't I wasn't that cop

57:11

was like yes sir at every

57:13

turn. It was like no I'm

57:15

not doing that. But then there

57:18

came that moment on January 6th

57:20

in which a lot of things

57:23

came home for you and I

57:25

appreciate you sharing that story man.

57:27

I really do. Well thank you

57:30

for giving me a place to

57:32

share it. Hey man you're just

57:34

you're just good people and I

57:37

think people need to know that

57:39

I think they do. And I've

57:42

heard people, you know, say good

57:44

things about you and they're curious

57:46

about you. Because you know, you've

57:49

got others who've been much more

57:51

profiling out there for sure. So

57:53

there's an earnest and honest curiosity

57:56

about you. And I think people

57:58

will appreciate that and appreciate our

58:01

conversation today and get them to

58:03

know a little bit more about

58:05

Michael Fanon. If you want to

58:08

read a good profile piece, Alex

58:10

Morris wrote an article, I think

58:13

it was like a year or

58:15

two ago in Rolling Stone. Michael

58:17

Fanon is not your fucking hero.

58:20

I think that captured, that definitely

58:22

captured me about as, you know,

58:24

as pointedly as possible. So, well,

58:27

I'm glad you got, I forgot

58:29

about that one. You're absolutely right.

58:32

That is, it's a great piece.

58:34

And the headline sort of tells

58:36

you everything you need to know

58:39

right there. So, funny story too,

58:41

Michael. If we got time. Yeah,

58:44

yeah. So we're. I'm sitting there

58:46

and I finished the article with

58:48

Alex and she's saying, and she's

58:51

the best, she is an incredible,

58:53

incredible person. But she was like,

58:55

hey, so what do you want

58:58

to do for the photo? And

59:00

I was like, well, I'll tell

59:03

you what I don't do. I'm

59:05

not going to capital, I'm not

59:07

putting on a fucking uniform, not,

59:10

you know, like staring off distantly

59:12

into the best. She's like, I'll

59:15

submit that to the editors. I

59:17

think his name was Patrick at

59:19

the time. She's like, well, okay,

59:22

so what do you want to

59:24

do? And I was like, I

59:26

tell you, I want to bring

59:29

my dog, a cooler beer, and

59:31

a lawn chair, and I want

59:34

to sit on the west front

59:36

of the Capitol and drink beer

59:38

and you guys can take pictures

59:41

of it. So she said, she's

59:43

like, we do these things all

59:45

the time with like. you know,

59:48

celebrities and musical guests and all

59:50

these people and they always had

59:53

some crazy idea and it never

59:55

flies like we always go for

59:57

something else. She calls me back

1:00:00

like 15 minutes later. She's like

1:00:02

they I loved it. I guess

1:00:05

we're going to do it. I

1:00:07

had to call Nancy Pelosi, who

1:00:09

was a speaker at the time,

1:00:12

to get mission for us to

1:00:14

permission. That's why I'm laughing. I'm

1:00:16

like, okay, we are on the

1:00:19

capital law. Okay. So she's like,

1:00:21

she's like, so what do you

1:00:24

want to do? And I was

1:00:26

like, oh, man, we're just going

1:00:28

to take some pictures. And she's

1:00:31

like, okay, nothing crazy, right. I

1:00:33

was like. No, no, just this

1:00:36

is a thing for an article.

1:00:38

She's like, of course, Michael, of

1:00:40

course. And then later on that

1:00:43

day, she calls me back, she's

1:00:45

like, Michael, were you drinking beer

1:00:47

on the west side of the

1:00:50

Capitol? I said, oh, they were

1:00:52

full, they were, it wasn't real,

1:00:55

it was, they were empty. She's

1:00:57

like, she's like, she's like, she's

1:00:59

like, you know, you know it's

1:01:02

a it's against the law to

1:01:04

lie to the house. Yes it

1:01:06

is. I love it. There it

1:01:09

is. It's not what you expect

1:01:11

most. Trust me. That is so

1:01:14

perfect. And knowing Nancy, I'm sure

1:01:16

she's like, trust me. That is

1:01:18

so perfect. Perfect. And knowing Nancy,

1:01:21

I'm sure she's like, okay. No,

1:01:23

did you really? You're like, no,

1:01:26

man, I just I think she

1:01:28

knew right away. I think she

1:01:30

did. You got to know me

1:01:33

like pretty well. You know, our

1:01:35

first our first meeting, um, I

1:01:37

remember one of her aides came

1:01:40

up to me and said, you

1:01:42

know, you said fuck 66 times

1:01:45

in that conversation with Speaker Pelosi.

1:01:47

They said, you know, we've seen

1:01:49

her meet with world leaders. They

1:01:52

say shit or damn. or even

1:01:54

hell. Like she corrects it. But

1:01:57

I she took pity on me

1:01:59

and my. Yeah, six, six, nine,

1:02:01

eight itself. Yeah. I love you,

1:02:04

man. I love it. Michael Fanon,

1:02:06

folks. He is, he is one

1:02:08

of a kind and he's not,

1:02:11

he's not just your neighborhood cop.

1:02:13

All right brother that doesn't put

1:02:16

this time together folks I hope

1:02:18

you've enjoyed the conversation please check

1:02:20

out Michael's sub stack and and

1:02:23

at Michael Fanon on sub stack

1:02:25

you can see him there and

1:02:27

read more check out those roll

1:02:30

that rolling stone article trust me

1:02:32

it's it's a good one and

1:02:35

the book again hold the line

1:02:37

the insurrection of and one cops

1:02:39

battle for America's soul grab a

1:02:42

copy. and learn a little bit

1:02:44

more about this man in those

1:02:47

events. Until next time, guys, be

1:02:49

safe, be well out there, and

1:02:51

remember what I always tell you.

1:02:54

Stop hanging out with stupid. It's

1:02:56

not a good law. It's not

1:02:58

a good law. All right, take

1:03:01

care everybody. Hi,

1:03:21

I'm John Fiegelsain. And I'm Professor Corey

1:03:23

Brechner. And we are here to tell

1:03:25

you about the oath in the office,

1:03:27

an essential new podcast about the extremely

1:03:29

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1:03:33

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1:03:37

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1:03:39

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