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Online only. Hello

0:22

Gabby here, welcome back to the midpoint.

0:24

My guest today really has had a

0:26

varied career. Nikki Chapman is now best

0:28

known as a broadcaster, but in the

0:30

heady days of the 90s and the

0:32

early 2000s she was working with the

0:34

biggest names in the music industry. She

0:36

managed and promoted some of the pop

0:38

stars who defined the era, including the

0:40

spy skills, Amy Winehouse, and take that.

0:42

You can't get much bigger really. Nikki

0:44

was the creative director of a major

0:46

management company when she was offered her

0:48

first job in television as a judge

0:50

on pop-inop-inopopopop-in. and then later Pop Idol.

0:52

Now, we're spoiled for choice when it

0:54

comes to these kinds of talent shows

0:56

at the moment, but it's worth remembering

0:59

these were pioneers, the first of a

1:01

kind, and millions and millions of people

1:03

tuned in every week. More presenting jobs

1:05

followed, including Wanted Down Under, and Escape

1:07

to the Country, and Nikki still presents

1:09

those today. She's also regularly hosted on

1:11

radio too, and she has just launched

1:13

her new show on Magic FM. Outside

1:15

of her broadcasting work, Nikki was dealt

1:17

a huge curveball in 2019. She was

1:19

diagnosed with a brainch. She put some

1:21

of her symptoms down to the menopause,

1:23

but quickly found herself undergoing major surgery.

1:25

Thankfully, it was a success, and she's

1:27

here to tell us about it all

1:30

today. But I wonder how much of

1:32

an impact it's had on the way

1:34

she's approached midlife. Let's find out. Nikki

1:40

Chapman, thank you so much for coming

1:42

on the midpoint. I sit here with

1:44

you in front of me, not really

1:46

knowing you. I don't think I'll pass

1:48

across too much in our professional lives,

1:50

but I actually really know you because

1:52

I devoured your book yesterday. So I

1:54

know all about your career trajectory. I

1:57

mean, I knew you as Nikki on

1:59

pop idol. and Nikki who was in

2:01

charge of these superbands. But I learned

2:03

so much more about yesterday and I

2:05

absolutely loved it. It was a trick

2:07

down memory lane. It was so nostalgic

2:09

for me. Oh, thank you. And also

2:11

I felt, wow, this woman was a

2:13

trailblazer. But you don't kind of shout

2:15

about yourself in that way. No, I

2:17

suppose not. I sort of fell into

2:19

the job. And I sort of touched

2:21

on it with the book. I decided

2:23

to write it with the book. I

2:25

decided to write it. I do have

2:27

a sense of loyalty to the artists

2:29

that I worked. So for those that don't know,

2:32

they might know me from the telly or

2:34

the radio, but I actually started in the

2:36

music industry. I had one normal job per

2:38

year, and then I dipped my toe in,

2:41

yeah, so it showed Biz of sorts, and

2:43

then that was it. And that really changed

2:45

my life. And I think I worked in

2:47

the Biz for about 20 years. Listen to

2:50

me, the Biz. That'll turn people off, sorry,

2:52

apologies, apologies, apologies, straight away. And I worked

2:54

my way up and I found my vocation,

2:56

I found what I really, really loved doing.

2:59

I've always loved music, but the whole business

3:01

intrigued me. And I suppose at the

3:03

end of the day, I was responsible

3:05

for making people famous or to maintain

3:08

that fame. And when I say fame,

3:10

I mean selling, selling the album, selling

3:12

the single. And that was my choice.

3:14

Yeah. It's interesting kind of dissecting what

3:17

the job is, because reading the book

3:19

I thought she's got no experience at

3:21

all in this industry. passionate about music,

3:23

you love live music, but you're learning

3:26

on the job, but obviously with an

3:28

innate sense of selling and understanding people

3:30

as well, I felt, and that moved

3:32

you on quite quickly. In what was

3:35

also a very male-dominated, unsurprisingly, late 90s,

3:37

quite toxic at times, atmosphere, which was

3:39

something, it's always kind of asked of

3:41

me, all working in spore back in

3:44

the late 90s, very male-dominated space and...

3:46

I don't think that gets asked of

3:48

women as much who've worked in the

3:50

music industry, even though you must all

3:52

know it. Yeah, it was tough. I

3:55

joined sort of the late 80s, and

3:57

the music industry was going through a

3:59

transition. So when I first dip my

4:01

toe in, the department would leave at one

4:03

o'clock and they wouldn't come back. You know,

4:06

that was it. And that was the norm.

4:08

And I was sitting there, you know, the

4:10

secretary. Because there were long lunches. Yeah, the

4:12

promotions department, they were very long lunches, shall

4:14

we say. And I could cope. I mean,

4:17

you couldn't do that now, but that's how

4:19

it used to be. And then I saw

4:21

that. many but when they were bad they

4:23

were awful and they were also very high

4:25

up the scale. And you gave them a

4:28

dressing down in the book? Yeah I mean

4:30

sometimes you know there was moments where I

4:32

was physically and mentally scared I'm not going

4:34

to lie and I decided that the only

4:37

way that I was going to move on

4:39

in these... awful situations and I did love

4:41

my time there. It's a very small part

4:43

but it's an important thing to say because

4:45

I think people might be going through something

4:48

similar and it's having that courage to move

4:50

forward and nowadays we can talk about it.

4:52

You can go to HR or people and

4:54

culture or whatever personnel is now called. You

4:56

can go to your colleagues and you can

4:59

call people out and that is a healthy

5:01

environment. In my days it was part of

5:03

the brief. Oh get off her, get off

5:05

her, you know, a lawyer actually said that

5:08

to someone that to someone that was literally

5:10

on top of literally on top of me,

5:12

mucking up. Mucking up. about, but it wasn't

5:14

funny. And I decided, get on with it,

5:16

keep out of those situations, always have your

5:19

wits about you. And when you can see

5:21

a situation slightly turning, move away. And so

5:23

that's what I did. And it was great.

5:25

I really, really loved it. As I say,

5:28

I worked my way up. And it's not

5:30

until you look back that you realize there

5:32

were some amazing women that I worked with.

5:34

And there's a lot of women that put

5:36

up with a lot of stuff that they

5:39

shouldn't have done to get where they shouldn't

5:41

have done to get where they needed to

5:43

get where they needed to be. culturally the

5:45

music industry has changed in so many ways

5:47

even just you talking about sending bikes out

5:50

for promotions and because to get even to

5:52

get an image of somebody across town had

5:54

to go on a bike you don't just

5:56

email it you know at the beginning of

5:59

your career and in that time when I

6:01

was starting my career that was not such

6:03

a thing as the internet was just a

6:05

pipe dream. So those things have changed. Those

6:07

things have changed. Those things have changed. But

6:10

do you think the culture is dramatically different?

6:12

I think so. I hope so. I think

6:14

we've learned so many lessons, not just the

6:16

way we deal with ourselves and their colleagues,

6:18

but also the way we deal with bands

6:21

and things like that. And it has definitely

6:23

changed and people are called out. I think

6:25

the music industry has evolved. It is a

6:27

business. That's when people forget. It is a

6:30

business. It is a business. That's when people

6:32

forget. It is a business. But yeah, I

6:34

think it stands up. I mean, I haven't

6:36

worked in it for so many years. That

6:38

it has changed. a different world, but without

6:41

that world and without all those experiences and

6:43

working with this fantastic roster of artists. I

6:45

wouldn't be where I am today. So I

6:47

am extremely grateful and I have so much

6:49

love for the industry. It was good to

6:52

me. I'll park the bad side. I do

6:54

touch on it. I thought it was important

6:56

to write on it. Because I very rarely

6:58

talk about negative things in my life. I

7:01

thought it was important. And as a woman

7:03

making her way through, I couldn't have done

7:05

it without... some amazing guys in my life.

7:07

Exactly. And you also give them the ones

7:09

that really helped you great credit. I think

7:12

it's about being a good person, isn't it?

7:14

Whether you're made or female, just helping people

7:16

and... You obviously had incredible tenacity and work

7:18

ethic and I think any young person reading

7:20

the book would understand that whatever industry you're

7:23

in, you've got to work hard, you've got

7:25

to turn upon time. Yeah, it's not rocket

7:27

science, is it? When you ask someone to

7:29

do something and they don't do it, you're

7:32

like, that was so want to do something

7:34

and they don't do it. You're like, that

7:36

was, I can remember being in a studio,

7:38

one of my artists complaining, complaining, it was

7:40

Saturday morning TV or something like that. on

7:43

this show they expect you to do that

7:45

don't do the show I've been doing this

7:47

for 10 years or 5 I don't want

7:49

to do this any longer and I look

7:51

them in the eye and I said I

7:54

get here. three hours before you to make

7:56

sure everything's fine. You know, whether it's David

7:58

Bowie or you, I am here three hours

8:00

before on a Saturday. I work 40 weekends

8:03

of the year. This is what I do.

8:05

You know, I do my job. Just do

8:07

yours. It's not rocket science. And interestingly, the

8:09

people who, the big bands, and you talk

8:11

a lot about the spice girls and the

8:14

end of working with the spice girls, you

8:16

know, they were grafters. They put the hours

8:18

in. It's not an accident, is it. bands

8:20

become huge. No, and I hope they really

8:22

get the credit for that because they were

8:25

an incredible set of girls. They still are

8:27

professional and successful in their own rights. They've

8:29

got their families, they've got their lives, but

8:31

when I met them I was quite cynical.

8:34

I don't mind saying that. Just come off

8:36

working with Take that. I was like, yeah,

8:38

all right, come on then, come on in,

8:40

show me what you've got. And I was

8:42

like, wow. And I used to sit there.

8:45

I could never do that. I just wouldn't

8:47

have, well I haven't got the talent to

8:49

start off with, so let's get that one

8:51

out the way. But also, you know, I

8:53

left school at 16 and I'm not academic

8:56

at all and I work really hard at

8:58

school. You know, it's not like I was,

9:00

I'd love to say to you, yeah I

9:02

was bunking off the whole time having a

9:05

great life. I wasn't, I was always first

9:07

there, last to leave like I am now.

9:09

And I worked really hard, it just didn't

9:11

come naturally. It just didn't come naturally. It

9:13

just didn't come naturally. It just didn't come

9:16

naturally. It just didn't come naturally. It just

9:18

didn't come naturally. It just didn't come naturally.

9:20

It just didn't come naturally. It just didn't

9:22

come naturally. It just didn't come naturally. It

9:24

just didn't come naturally. It just didn't come

9:27

naturally. It just didn't come naturally. It just

9:29

didn't come naturally. It just didn't come naturally.

9:31

It just didn't come naturally. It just I

9:33

wasn't going to screw this up. You know,

9:36

and I look at my friends and other

9:38

people thinking, I know I'm lucky to have

9:40

this. And back in the late 80s, you

9:42

know, having that aspiration to go and work

9:44

in television or in music industry or whatever

9:47

it was, not many people did now. We're

9:49

much more savvy. But I realized I've got

9:51

the golden ticket and I wasn't going to

9:53

lose it. You lived with a group of

9:56

rowers, I found that interesting. Because they work

9:58

really hard, don't they? They're getting up early,

10:00

they're working really hard. It must have been

10:02

quite an interesting dynamic. a hundred pounds a

10:04

month rent and there's a lovely guy called

10:07

Ian who had a house and he sort

10:09

of organized and looked after the house and

10:11

there was eight of us and I was

10:13

the only non-roa and I can remember walking

10:15

up to my bedroom at night and we

10:18

had to put a bucket on the stairs

10:20

because the roof was leaking and that bucket

10:22

stayed there for a year and it was

10:24

emptied but you know that's the house that

10:27

I looked and I loved it. I had

10:29

a single room. I could save money. It

10:31

was in Putney which is in West London.

10:33

So it's really easy to get in and

10:35

out of town on the tube. And they

10:38

used to leave at four or five in

10:40

the morning. And then I might see them

10:42

come back at breakfast time, might not, because

10:44

they'd have gone back at breakfast time, might

10:46

not, because they'd have gone to work. And

10:49

then when I got home from work, they

10:51

just finished training. I mean, it was incredible.

10:53

The downside to you could never get to

10:55

the washing machine. because it was full of

10:58

kit the whole time, which you would understand.

11:00

Yeah. I love that juxtaposition. You're going off

11:02

to work with all the, I mean, the

11:04

great and the good of music. There weren't

11:06

many acts of that era that you didn't

11:09

touch upon in some way. You know, the

11:11

big names and your love for Annie Lennox

11:13

comes through and you get to work with

11:15

her and then a young Amy Wine House

11:17

comes across your table as well. And such

11:20

a, anybody of our age which most of

11:22

the listeners of the listeners to this podcasters

11:24

to this podcasters to this podcast are, will,

11:26

There was a lot of cynicism about bands

11:29

that were manufactured and you were on the

11:31

edge of that with those bands as well,

11:33

weren't you? I didn't have any issue with

11:35

that, funnily enough. I mean, some of my

11:37

favourite acts over the years had been put

11:40

together and they had talent. That's the thing,

11:42

they had talent. How do you find, I

11:44

mean, you've got people like cold play that

11:46

have been going for years and years and

11:48

met students. Exactly, you know, genocists and bands

11:51

like that, you know, met at college, met

11:53

at university. But if you're going into the

11:55

slightly younger genre, where do you meet four

11:57

or five people that are like-minded and you

12:00

want to get into the music industry and

12:02

you want to have fun? On Soldier Soldier,

12:04

soldier, maybe. You were slightly cynical about that,

12:06

weren't you? Did they? That was very good.

12:08

Yeah, I know. And Robson and Jerome at

12:11

first didn't float your boat as an idea?

12:13

Well, it was just quite unusual because I

12:15

hadn't watched Soldier's Soldier's Soldier. Sorry boys. And

12:17

so it was the next day after this

12:19

sort of pivotal show that went out and

12:22

everybody went into the record shops and asked

12:24

for this track that they had performed on

12:26

the show and Simon Cow had heard about

12:28

it, you know, radar ears, he was off.

12:31

that man doesn't sit still. You know, as

12:33

soon as he gets the bite, he is

12:35

off. And he had to do a deal

12:37

with them, actually, because they said, well, we

12:39

don't really want to put out a record.

12:42

We're not interested, but we're not musicians. And

12:44

he's like, no, don't you worry about that.

12:46

And I think he did the deal that

12:48

they never have to do Top of the

12:50

Pops. It was number one for weeks, and

12:53

I did. Oh my goodness, listen, this is

12:55

the old plugger in me. The biggest selling

12:57

single of 1994. It was incredible. It was

12:59

an interesting... It was unchanged melody, wasn't it?

13:02

That's right. Yeah, that they did. And if

13:04

you think of those times, I mean, now,

13:06

how do you find new talent? I mean,

13:08

go and find me an embryo and they'll

13:10

tell you exactly how to find a new

13:13

talent. I'm so out of touch. But back

13:15

in the day, there was quite a sort

13:17

of a sort of a... a main way

13:19

a main route of doing it and then

13:21

suddenly TV came along and really opened that

13:24

door I mean we haven't touched on idle

13:26

yet but you know be it neighbors home

13:28

and away Coronation Street I think there was

13:30

a guy wasn't there from oh what's that

13:33

TV show that goes out seven o'clock Emedale?

13:35

Yeah, you know there's a couple of people

13:37

from Emedale that brought out singles and why

13:39

not I'm not criticizing they had a huge

13:41

audience yes So if you've got like at

13:44

the time probably six or seven million watching

13:46

Emma Dale in the evening things then why

13:48

would you not capitalize if you could sing

13:50

and a lot of those young people had

13:53

come from music kind of theater school backgrounds

13:55

or so they could sing. Yeah I mean

13:57

I can remember growing up Stalski and Hutch

13:59

one of them didn't hear a couple of

14:01

singles out and stuff I think I quite

14:04

fancied him at the time. about five but

14:06

you know yeah it's suddenly in the 90s

14:08

this whole new opportunity arose and we were

14:10

well to go back to the Partridge family

14:12

in the Osmans that was what they did

14:15

they had a TV show and Jackson five

14:17

they had TV shows around the music yeah

14:19

and TV shows around the music yeah so

14:21

and then go full circle and I work

14:24

S Club seven you look at the monkeys

14:26

and S Club seven there's lots of similarities

14:28

then great music great tunes having fun more

14:30

things change everything change everything stays the same

14:32

everything Vans needed to tour now, don't they?

14:35

Yeah, and they make their money. Make their

14:37

money to touring the merch. Yeah, absolutely. I

14:39

hope you're enjoying this episode of the Midpoint.

14:41

If you are, it would be amazing if

14:43

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active on the Boost Unlimited plan. Sharman

26:30

said just come in for a cup of

26:32

tea no pressure and I said well I

26:35

don't really want to be a presenter no

26:37

just come in for a cup of tea

26:39

and I walked out with three shows so

26:41

it's a very it was a lovely cup

26:43

of tea and again women in our lives

26:45

making changes for you and then she rang

26:47

me up a few weeks later and she

26:49

said oh I had Chris Evans in this

26:51

is when he was doing a lot of

26:54

work with the BBC and he said a

26:56

lot of work with the BBC who are

26:58

you signing? with Nikki Chapman. She's a great

27:00

asset. And I thought, well that's really

27:02

nice of him to say that because

27:04

his standing was so high and I

27:06

was a nobody. And yeah, so we

27:08

come back. Where did we get to

27:10

on that one? So you left Radio

27:12

2 recently? Yeah, so I decided to

27:15

leave because an amazing opportunity presented itself.

27:17

It came out of the blue a

27:19

daily evening show on mellow magic. Nearly

27:21

everybody I speak to goes, oh I

27:23

love mellow magic. It's got such fun

27:26

memories for so many people and it's

27:28

a very special time in the evening.

27:30

And there's a lovely lady called Lynn

27:32

Parsons who does Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.

27:35

So I can still take time off.

27:37

I can still film. I can still

27:39

do all my other projects. But going

27:42

in, that routine, every evening and playing

27:44

the best music from the 80s, 90s,

27:46

into the noughties, that's perfect for me.

27:49

So you get a few stories, perhaps.

27:51

But also, people are doing so many

27:53

different things at that time of night.

27:55

So you want that relaxing feel. A

27:57

lot of people are going to work.

27:59

I think it's a very very special

28:02

hour so I'm still new to it

28:04

but as you can tell there's huge

28:06

enthusiasm Yeah, and I love the music

28:08

Yeah, well that's also really good. Yeah,

28:11

you get to listen to things that

28:13

you would listen to if you're home

28:15

So is your husband Shackey. Yeah, I

28:18

feel terrible calling him that that is

28:20

what you call him all way through

28:22

the book. So yeah, no, everybody wasn't

28:25

Christian Shackey. We should just say no

28:27

his name his name is Dave and

28:29

everyone called him Shack. And as a

28:31

journalist he was called Shack. So when

28:34

we first met at RCA Records many

28:36

years ago, we've been together like over

28:38

30 years now, everyone called him Shack.

28:40

So I called him Shack or Shackie

28:42

and it stuck very few people called

28:44

him Dave. I mean he doesn't really

28:47

answer to it is the honest truth.

28:49

Good Yorkshire lad. And he still works

28:51

in music industry but he has been...

28:53

really pivotal, really instrumental and very supportive

28:55

in everything that I've done. Yeah. And

28:57

he's listening in the evenings, is he?

28:59

Yeah, definitely, yeah. Not necessarily his first

29:02

genre of music. No, he's more planet

29:04

rock, I'm not going to planet rock,

29:06

I'm not going to lie, I mean

29:08

even when I was on radio too,

29:10

I'd come home and planet rock would

29:12

be on and I'd be like, no,

29:15

radio too. Do you have to have

29:17

silent discos in your house? Is it

29:19

well, all part of the bow affair?

29:21

and he loves the fact that I'm

29:23

on the radio. He really does. I

29:25

think, you know, even though our lives

29:27

are very, very different, there are similarities.

29:30

He manages a big metal band,

29:32

he co-manages, and he's often away,

29:34

etc. But, you know, still, it's

29:36

all about the music. Is he

29:38

the first person you seek counsel

29:40

and opinion from on any big

29:42

decision? A hundred percent. Is it

29:44

the same in your family? Yeah,

29:46

I would say so. respect his

29:48

wisdom above all kind of others

29:50

in terms of he makes the

29:52

right decision. Yeah he's really good

29:55

he's not as emotional as I

29:57

am and I don't know is

29:59

it me? or is it my age

30:01

sweating the small stuff? Why? Let it go.

30:03

You know, there's so many big things in

30:05

our lives. And sometimes it's just like, does

30:07

it really matter? And I'm like, no. He's

30:10

very good at making that sort of middle-of-the-road

30:12

decision where I can flip from side to

30:14

side. I don't sort of share many things.

30:16

We're sort of, we're talking about where we

30:18

are in our lives now. And certainly my

30:20

presence on social media, I'm very aware. Everybody's

30:23

had awful things happen to them over the

30:25

years. And apart from when I was ill

30:27

with my brain tumor, I don't really touch

30:29

on the bad things, is he honest truth?

30:31

I don't share that. A lot of people

30:34

do, and that's an important part of who

30:36

they are, and people get, I don't know,

30:38

they comfort from that sharing, and I'm a

30:40

big one for talking stuff through, and I

30:42

talk. as you can properly go. But equally

30:44

there is a part of me that is

30:47

quite private and when things are bad I

30:49

don't tend to share those around. So when

30:51

you got your diagnosis in 2019, you thought

30:53

at the time a lot of those symptoms

30:55

were perimenopause related? Yes. How did you kind

30:58

of deal with initially and how did you

31:00

deal with the idea that you were going

31:02

through the menopause at that point? I didn't

31:04

suffer that much going through the men and

31:06

pause. I am on HRT and I think

31:09

that's important to say I made the decision

31:11

in conjunction with my doctors, my NHS doctors

31:13

and we had a long chat about it

31:15

and that was the decision that I made

31:17

and I wasn't on it then and I

31:19

was very tired and during the winter months

31:22

I don't sort of film escape to the

31:24

country or anything like that and so I'm

31:26

often at home. And Jack said, oh, you're

31:28

just tired because you're not doing anything. You

31:30

know when you relax? You sort of really

31:33

do relax, don't you? And I was like,

31:35

yeah, but I am very, very tard. And

31:37

he said, well, don't beat yourself, Hopkins. You

31:39

know, look at your age. I was in

31:41

my, what would I have been in my

31:43

early 50s? And then obviously things changed. And

31:46

then it came on very, very, very suddenly,

31:48

really suddenly, but I did put it down

31:50

to the menopause. You had, was it a

31:52

benign or a benign tumor? How did that

31:54

rock your world at that point and change

31:57

things for you? Well, we thought I'd had

31:59

a stroke, is the honest truth. And I

32:01

was just about to start filming again. I

32:03

was just about to do the Chelsea Flower

32:05

Show. Lots of things in the diary. Always,

32:08

timing's never right, is it when you're ill?

32:10

And so when they told me, it did

32:12

sort of come out of the blue, because

32:14

a lot of people that have brain tumors

32:16

will have... or they'll have something going on

32:18

for weeks, months, sometimes years, and it hasn't

32:21

been diagnosed or they haven't spoken to anybody.

32:23

Mine was really, really quick, even though the

32:25

tumor had been there a long time. It

32:27

wasn't until I started to lose my sight

32:29

and I started to lose my sight and

32:32

I got lost walking down the street and

32:34

I couldn't talk. But I sort of kept

32:36

thinking, oh, it's because I'm tired, oh, don't

32:38

ever say so. The first time it happened

32:40

I was on my own and I was

32:42

typing and I couldn't type. So I don't

32:45

know how long I couldn't speak for because

32:47

I was on my own. So it could

32:49

have been a couple of hours. I'm funny

32:51

enough, I don't talk to myself that much.

32:53

But I can remember not being able to

32:56

see the words. I was trying to type

32:58

something and it took me ages to type.

33:00

I missed a meeting. I never missed a

33:02

meeting. They rang me up and said, where

33:04

are you? And I'm at home. I'm meant

33:06

to be here. I was like, oh my

33:09

goodness, how embarrassing. I walked down Regent Street,

33:11

which is a major street in London. And

33:13

I got lost. It took me an hour

33:15

to do a five minute walk. I went

33:17

around and around and around in circles. I

33:20

went around in circles. I went round and

33:22

around in circles. Each time I made around

33:24

in circles. I made around in circles. when

33:26

it came back again and I couldn't talk

33:28

I was doing a voiceover for escape to

33:31

the country and I walked in and I

33:33

can remember thinking I don't know who I'm

33:35

here to see so I looked it up

33:37

on my phone and then I found the

33:39

answer and then I spoke to the receptionist

33:41

and she said I'll go to the third

33:44

floor and I looked at her and I

33:46

said I'll go to the third floor and

33:48

I looked at her and I said third

33:50

and she said yes and I put three

33:52

up five or ten minutes, it wasn't long,

33:55

so I thought I was having a migraine.

33:57

Again, I made excuses for, and we're talking

33:59

days, we're not talking months, we're talking days,

34:01

but then when I woke up the next

34:03

morning, and I turned on my computer and

34:05

I couldn't read it, suddenly the alarm bells,

34:08

and I turned on my computer and I

34:10

couldn't read it, suddenly the alarm bells just

34:12

went off, and I rang my doctor and

34:14

my doctor said, don't come in, I went

34:16

through, I went through, I went through, I

34:19

went through, and I went through, I went

34:21

through, I went through, I went through, I

34:23

went through, I went through, and I went

34:25

through, I went through, and I went through,

34:27

I went through, and I went through, I

34:30

went through, and I went through, I went

34:32

through, I went through, I went through, I

34:34

went through, I, I, I, I, I, I,

34:36

I, I, and I, I, I, I, I,

34:38

I That was it. Yeah, yeah, straight in

34:40

for a scanner because they thought I'd had

34:43

a stroke when you go to A&E heart

34:45

strokes you're seen straight away. I literally waited

34:47

minutes and I can remember the tears pouring

34:49

literally down my face and everybody being so

34:51

nice and saying oh we love escaped to

34:54

the country and all talking to me about

34:56

it and me really trying to keep it

34:58

together and then it was like you actually

35:00

haven't had a stroke you've got a brain

35:02

tumor. And if there's one thing I would

35:04

love to share today, and it's just this

35:07

message, and I don't know why often people,

35:09

and I'm not medically trained, but women of

35:11

around my age do get brain tumors, I

35:13

mean everybody does have every age, and can

35:15

I just put that out there, but there's

35:18

a lot of people around my age, they

35:20

don't know why I'm when I ask for

35:22

a consultant, but more people die of brain

35:24

tumors. under the age of 40 and that

35:26

includes children than any other cancer in the

35:29

UK. It's something like 12,000 people are going

35:31

to be diagnosed. Now not everybody has cancer.

35:33

My tumor wasn't cancer so I was really

35:35

lucky even though it's very very dangerous. Could

35:37

it have killed you if not caught? Yes.

35:39

Because it was growing on where it is

35:42

on the brain. There are so many different

35:44

types of brain tumors. So that's really important

35:46

thing to understand isn't it? When people hear

35:48

it's not cancerous. It kind of goes, oh,

35:50

then you'd have been fine eventually. But if

35:53

you hadn't done something about it that day.

35:55

Well, in three weeks, I was losing my

35:57

speech. I could have lost my sight, even

35:59

when they operated, and I couldn't see these

36:01

symptoms came on. very very quickly for me

36:03

but symptoms are so different but that's the

36:06

one thing I would say to people and

36:08

I think there's more awareness you know we've

36:10

our lovely Davina McCall has just recently had

36:12

her operation you know it's and it's often

36:14

in the public eye when the outcome is

36:17

awful tragic but we can do something so

36:19

if there's one thing I would love to

36:21

mention and I don't often get up and

36:23

say this but the brain tumor charity and

36:25

the reality as well, are brilliant. But yeah,

36:27

if any of your friends, people you know,

36:30

have headaches or symptoms, go and see someone,

36:32

don't put it off. And you'll be taken

36:34

very seriously by the sounds of it, if

36:36

you turn up at A&E, with those symptoms.

36:38

Yeah. Once

36:54

you were physically better. and feeling good again

36:56

and obviously clearly wanting to get back into

36:58

work. I can't imagine Nikki Chapman spending much

37:00

time away from her career because you get

37:03

so much from it. Did it change anything

37:05

else in your life in terms of what

37:07

you were doing from a health point of

37:09

view or what you were doing from just

37:12

a lifestyle and philosophical kind of approach to

37:14

life? I would love to say I had

37:16

a huge wish list to go off and

37:18

do stuff and I didn't but what it

37:21

did make me do is be very grateful.

37:23

and also that slightly reflective, what else is

37:25

going on in someone's life? I can remember

37:27

when I had it because I had to

37:29

wait two weeks before I had my operation.

37:32

And I was working actually. I cancelled loads

37:34

of work, but I did a little bit

37:36

of radio too at the time. And I

37:38

can remember walking out and walking down Oxford

37:41

Street and looking at people thinking, and they

37:43

would look and sometimes, and occasionally people recognise

37:45

you, you know, and it's lovely, and they

37:47

look at you and smile, and me thinking,

37:50

you have no idea what's going on in

37:52

my world. You have no idea what's going

37:54

on. But also now, looking at other people,

37:56

especially when the behaviour isn't quite... right or

37:58

you might get a sharp answer from someone.

38:01

I hope I'm more patient and understanding thinking.

38:03

What's going on in their world that they've

38:05

reacted that way. Yeah. I mean, you wouldn't

38:07

wish it on anybody. I really wouldn't. And

38:10

the only reason I decided to go public

38:12

was because I really rarely talk about some

38:14

of these sort of things, but because my

38:16

recovery was so good and my recovery was

38:18

so good and my experiences of the NHS

38:21

was so good and I am so grateful.

38:23

Again, Shaki and I spoke about it. We

38:25

weren't going to tell anyone and then a

38:27

couple of journalists wondered why I wasn't doing

38:30

it. Perhaps she should and I'm really pleased

38:32

I did. And the timing, this is 2019,

38:34

isn't it? And you know, your experience in

38:36

the NHS was obviously incredible. A year later,

38:39

we'd have been in the group of a

38:41

global pandemic and the NHS was under siege.

38:43

Yeah, it literally was practically a year to

38:45

the day. And I can't imagine had I

38:47

gone through it in that world, in that

38:50

awful 2020 world where the hospitals were at

38:52

breaking point and couldn't deal with... what was

38:54

coming in every single day, let alone people

38:56

with brain tumors and everything else that was

38:59

going on. And they, you know, if you're

39:01

suffering from cancer or any life-threatening illness, you

39:03

want to be seen straight away. You want

39:05

the best possible care. And I was very

39:08

fortunate and I got that. So did you

39:10

think you were living, this was nothing to

39:12

do with lifestyle, this was an unfortunate situation.

39:14

Did you think before, okay, I'm living quite

39:16

healthy life? And then afterwards carry on living

39:19

the same, living the same, the bad one

39:21

where I got lost. And I did a

39:23

lovely photo shoot. I think Pete Waterman might

39:25

have been with me on the photo shoot.

39:28

I can remember the journalist and he said,

39:30

you're really happy with your life, aren't you

39:32

Nikki? Care for what you wish for. And

39:34

I literally said to him, I'm so fortunate

39:36

I love my life. I love my life.

39:39

And then literally five hours later, I didn't

39:41

know where I was. And I was walking

39:43

up the street thinking, I'm going to a

39:45

voiceoversover session. I'm seeing, I don't know where

39:48

I'm going. So you already had gratitude in

39:50

the sense of you realize, and I think

39:52

that comes across that you're writing as well,

39:54

all the way through it, so exciting, the

39:57

way these things are happening for you, but

39:59

you're grateful for it all and for the

40:01

experiences you are having. I'm definitely an optimist.

40:03

I mean, I worked hard, but when you

40:05

really love something, it's like a hobby. You

40:08

know, we know people that have proper jobs

40:10

and they work hard and they don't get

40:12

any credit or anything, you know, and it's,

40:14

so I have to be quite mindful and

40:17

careful because I know I'm very fortunate. We

40:19

get, in our industry, there is a lot

40:21

of validation, isn't it? And people are nice

40:23

to us, you know, they are nice to

40:26

us, and I hope I give that back.

40:28

But yeah, going back, I didn't really answer

40:30

your question. Has life changed since then? I

40:32

hope it has. I hope that experience like

40:34

this make you a better person. I'm going

40:37

to say more tolerant, a better understanding. Does

40:39

it make you think about the finality of

40:41

it all and the inevitability of life that

40:43

it comes to? I was ready to go.

40:46

Yeah, I know. And I went up now,

40:48

but I was ready. Yeah, if my time

40:50

was up. This is why I don't talk

40:52

about it because it makes me cry. I

40:55

know because I think that is really powerful

40:57

because I think people sometimes go through those

40:59

experiences and don't think it is it. They

41:01

think they think I'm going to get better

41:03

and don't kind of want to countenance the

41:06

idea that that could be the end and

41:08

think about their lives in that way. I

41:10

well up when I talk about it because

41:12

when you have something like this happened to

41:15

you, you put it in your bottom draw.

41:17

Everyone deals with things differently. Mine is in

41:19

my bottom drawer and I don't need to

41:21

keep looking at it. It's a big part

41:23

of my life, but it's done. But sometimes

41:26

I open the drawer to share it and

41:28

it does make me upset. But I was

41:30

ready and I know that sounds quite weird,

41:32

but if this was my time, I look

41:35

back and went, my goodness, what a life

41:37

I've had, you know, the girl from Hermes,

41:39

16 years of age, what a life, what

41:41

have I got to go? complain about. I've

41:44

been so fortunate and I have enjoyed nearly

41:46

every part of it and I don't want

41:48

to die and I'm going to do everything

41:50

I can to make myself in the best

41:52

possible place for this operation mentally and physically

41:55

and I did that. My glass is always

41:57

half full but I don't want to take

41:59

second measures and if my time is up

42:01

I'm devastated for my husband and for my

42:04

family but how lucky have I been. You

42:06

know, because you don't know, do you? What

42:08

a way to be, though. That's so powerful

42:10

and so rare, I think. Do you? I

42:13

think people always think about, oh, I should

42:15

have, what if I, you know, I could

42:17

have done, and then if I get a

42:19

chance, I'll do this and that, but you

42:21

had such a sense of peace. Yeah, I

42:24

did my will. My poor husband, literally, we

42:26

came out of the A&E and I said

42:28

him, got to do the will, just update

42:30

it, please, please. And he's like, and he's

42:33

like, He was amazing. You find out about

42:35

people when you're ill. It's very interesting how

42:37

people react when you give them that information,

42:39

i.e. I've got a tumor. It's got to

42:41

be... you know, operated on pretty quickly. Because

42:44

a lot of people can't deal with the

42:46

idea. No. And that surprised me when people

42:48

couldn't deal with it. And you want to

42:50

say to them, hang on, I'm the one

42:53

who's got the tumor, deal with it. You

42:55

know, just send me a text if you

42:57

can't, if you can't call. That's fine. I

42:59

didn't tell very many people. But with my

43:02

husband, I found inner strengths in him that

43:04

I didn't know existed. I thought I was

43:06

a strong one. perfect, but he's really fair.

43:08

I've got to say that, otherwise he'll be

43:10

glancing, won't he? But I definitely had peace.

43:13

If this was my time and I didn't

43:15

want it to be my time, so be

43:17

it. I didn't want to come back half

43:19

measures. But yeah, did the will, did everything

43:22

I could to be positive, only cried for

43:24

30 seconds. 30 seconds, a big rule of

43:26

mine, only cry for 30 seconds and then

43:28

move on. Because otherwise, I like to say

43:31

I didn't unpack. I didn't unpack in my

43:33

grief. My grief was in a suitcase and

43:35

I didn't want to open that suitcase. It

43:37

was there, but I wasn't going to unpack

43:39

and make it comfortable. Was that case was

43:42

going to go? Yeah. And so I did

43:44

everything I could before I went in. I

43:46

only had two weeks, but my goodness. You

43:48

know, I did very gentle exercise. I did

43:51

everything they told me to do. I didn't

43:53

do anything they didn't tell me to do.

43:55

I, well, I just wanted to get myself

43:57

match fit, sorry for that. Before my operation.

43:59

And certainly when I came out, I followed

44:02

it by the rule in six weeks to

44:04

the day I was allowed to go back

44:06

to make changes to your... anything to do

44:08

with your lifestyle afterwards. There are a few

44:11

little tweaks. I struggle to read. I can

44:13

read, sadly, social media. That should go, shouldn't

44:15

it? But books and stuff, I love reading,

44:17

but my attention span has gone in that

44:20

respect. So I can do a couple of

44:22

chapters and then I have to put it

44:24

in there. Would you rather have an audio

44:26

book? Would that be better for you? What

44:28

about a movie? Would that take you? Movies

44:31

are fine. So reading, I just slightly struggle

44:33

with now, but that's a small price to

44:35

pay. It's just the attention. I don't know.

44:37

really loud is fine, it's that in-between. Oh

44:40

I think that might just be an issue.

44:42

Sometimes in a restaurant I'm beginning to think,

44:44

and we've both worked in an industry with

44:46

wearing headphones and earpieces and sometimes I wonder

44:49

if my hearing is my hearing if my

44:51

hearing is going, my hearing is going, my

44:53

hearing is going, because I wonder if my

44:55

hearing is going, because I'm looking at the

44:57

person in front of me in a restaurant,

45:00

and earpieces, and sometimes I wonder if my

45:02

hearing is a little bit closer. because I

45:04

know more and more people, and I find

45:06

myself going, yes, yes, I hope they're not

45:09

telling me something really important, because I'm going,

45:11

yes. We're not cupping our ears yet, oh,

45:13

are we? Not quite, no. I haven't got

45:15

a horn. But I'm lucky, I have very

45:18

few things. Attention, things like that. Was there

45:20

a list of anything that you thought, I

45:22

mean, gosh, you've done so much, was there

45:24

anything you wanted to do or anywhere you

45:26

wanted to go? Be happy, be happy and

45:29

healthy. Yeah, not materialistic. I love travelling and

45:31

I used to do the holiday programme and

45:33

give me that gig and I'll be back.

45:35

as well as men of magic, but no,

45:38

just to be happy and to be healthy

45:40

and also the people around me. You know,

45:42

it's like simple things. Don't make life complicated

45:44

for yourself. You can keep throwing stuff into

45:46

your life, but work out what needs to

45:49

be fixed. You know, nobody is broken, but

45:51

we can all improve ourselves and just work

45:53

out. And a big, big thing for me

45:55

is knowing... And again, this comes with age

45:58

and that's just such a wonderful thing to

46:00

look back and go, I'm good at this

46:02

and I'm not very good at that. And

46:04

that's okay. Yeah, exactly. And I look like

46:07

this and maybe I did once look like

46:09

that, but that's also okay. I mean, you

46:11

can make the best, you can polish the

46:13

edges a little bit if you want to

46:15

and so be it. But just work out

46:18

what you're good at in life. And the

46:20

things that you're not good at. park them

46:22

and don't worry too much about it. You

46:24

know, I'm never going to be a math

46:27

teacher. You know, I'm useless at numbers and

46:29

I'm not academic at all. And the way

46:31

my brain works is I have to learn

46:33

everything. I can't busk in life. I have

46:36

to learn. So be it. See that as

46:38

a strength. And carry on working for as

46:40

long as you can? As long as I

46:42

enjoy it. I can't imagine you a retired

46:44

person. I'm quite lazy. I mean you've just

46:47

made you've painted me as a few to

46:49

be really good and I like this. I

46:51

like that image of me like working hard.

46:53

How does your laziness manifest itself? I mean

46:56

we're talking days. Yeah, lazy days. Fly and

46:58

flop. I love going away and just doing

47:00

nothing. You're all or nothing. Well I do

47:02

like sitting, I love the sun. I do

47:04

love the sun. I'm a real spring and

47:07

summer girl and summer girl and you know.

47:09

I do like taking it easy. I like

47:11

my own company. I don't need to be

47:13

the whole time. I don't need to be

47:16

going to all the parties ever. I never

47:18

did. You probably know that language in my

47:20

book. Yeah, exactly, it was work. But I

47:22

like taking things easy. I enjoy what I

47:25

do, but I also enjoy time off. Yeah,

47:27

and that's also, I think, important, isn't it?

47:29

That if you get to a stage in

47:31

life where you have the choice, say, no,

47:33

socially to something. Have the confidence to do

47:36

that. Spend the time where you want to

47:38

spend the time and do the things that

47:40

you want to do. Which, to be honest,

47:42

if I don't make it to the party,

47:45

no one's going to miss me. That's true.

47:47

I just try to work out if that's...

47:49

through going through the experience you had or

47:51

whether it's just a realization of kind of

47:54

midlife wisdom that maybe it's a combination of

47:56

both. I think it is a combination of

47:58

both actually. I was never a massive party

48:00

animal and I know what makes me tick

48:02

and I know when I need to take

48:05

a step back. And yet you've never escaped

48:07

the country yourself? No. You still a city

48:09

dweller? I am. And I sort of brought

48:11

up semi-country and coast, which for me is

48:14

like the perfect combination. But I think I

48:16

live in West London and when I'm away

48:18

filming, I scratch that itch. Yes, so you

48:20

get that kind of satisfaction for a wee

48:23

while. Yeah, I love it. And I'm not

48:25

in the heart of a city. So I

48:27

can go back and forward. I can walk

48:29

to the river Thames with you. I like

48:31

where I live and I think that's important

48:34

if you are able to live in a

48:36

nice area. It's so... Mental health and nature

48:38

are I think inextricably linked. When I say

48:40

nature I don't mean living necessarily in the

48:43

countryside as being able to see some green

48:45

or some animals or come across even a

48:47

squirrel wandering along a path. Oh I've got

48:49

loads of those you can have mine in

48:51

my garden. They're the bane of my life.

48:54

God's little creatures they can go. It's not

48:56

the rats eating the food bins. It's the

48:58

squirrels! Squirrels and foxes in my road in

49:00

London. London foxes are brazen. I remember coming

49:03

home from Match the Day once about 3.30

49:05

in the morning because I was living in

49:07

London, coming from Manchester. And as the car

49:09

pulled up, there was a fox outside the

49:12

house and it looked like it was there

49:14

to welcome me home. move. I was going

49:16

to follow me into the... And I was

49:18

talking to it going, wow, you... I mean,

49:20

remember the days when you guys would scamper,

49:23

but they don't, don't they? They're just a

49:25

beautifully kind of abane now. Do you know

49:27

what? They look great. My mom said to

49:29

me, she lives more in the country, obviously,

49:32

and she said to me, your squirrels and

49:34

your foxes look so healthy. I'm like, yeah,

49:36

because they're getting all of food. How do

49:38

we get under squirrels and squirrels and foxes

49:41

and foxes and foxes and foxes? So, so,

49:43

so, so, so, so, like, like, like, like,

49:45

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

49:47

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

49:49

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

49:52

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

49:54

like, like, like, place right now and you're

49:56

doing the kind of projects that the things

49:58

you want to do at the pace you

50:01

want to do exactly at the pace I

50:03

don't need to work 52 weeks of the

50:05

year I do love time off I think

50:07

that's precious. But it's also reading your own

50:09

body and being honest with yourself and taking

50:12

a break when you think you need it.

50:14

You mentioned the gym. Do you like a

50:16

bit of exercise or is that a kind

50:18

of gadget? Endorphins, talk to me about them.

50:21

I haven't found them yet. I go to

50:23

the gym because I have to go to

50:25

the gym. I eat as healthily as I

50:27

can because I have to. What's your weakness

50:30

when it comes to? Oh, that's really easy.

50:32

Chocolate. I mean, you know what, if I

50:34

could just live off awful food, I would.

50:36

And it's only logic that tells me not

50:38

to. I love all the stuff that you

50:41

shouldn't. If it's got red bars on it,

50:43

oh, it doesn't come home, but I so

50:45

want it to be in my basket. That's

50:47

probably years of working in an industry where

50:50

there were green rooms for the recreational side

50:52

of things, but in terms of the tables,

50:54

when you're going to go on to tell

50:56

you. That was dinner. I remember you saying

50:59

that about somebody's rider. They didn't touch it,

51:01

Prince. Didn't touch it. So you took it

51:03

all home. It didn't go shopping for three

51:05

weeks. I left the trestle table behind that

51:07

it was all on, but literally that would

51:10

have come home with me as well if

51:12

it would have come home with me as

51:14

well if it fit it fitted with me

51:16

as well if it fitted if it fitted

51:19

in the car. And I would have come

51:21

home with me as well if it fitted,

51:23

if it fitted if it fitted it fitted

51:25

in a bar. It fitted in a bar

51:28

with me, if it fitted, fitted, fitted, if

51:30

it fitted, if it fitted, if it fitted,

51:32

if it fitted, if it fitted, if it

51:34

fitted, had a bar with a bar with

51:36

a bar with a bar with a bar

51:39

with a bar with a bar with a

51:41

bar with a bar with a bar with

51:43

a bar with a bar with a bar

51:45

with a bar with a bar with a

51:48

bar with a bar with a bar with

51:50

a bar with a bar with kind of

51:52

absolutely... Yeah. Three sheets of the wind, let's

51:54

say. Couldn't get into his room, that was

51:56

the first thing, just trying to open the

51:59

door. Biggest TV show that they were doing,

52:01

MTV Awards, and not only was it going

52:03

out in Europe, but it was also going

52:05

out in the state. So for the band,

52:08

it was millions. We're talking hundreds of millions,

52:10

and there he was, literally com. He had

52:12

security with him, but again it's not their

52:14

job. You have to be accountable, but the

52:17

boy was young and you had these... absolute

52:19

stars sitting around him and whoever else was

52:21

around. The lake rate Michael Hutchins, I think,

52:23

there can't be many people of our generation

52:25

who wouldn't have wanted to spend an evening

52:28

sitting above Michael Hutchins. Yeah, but the downside

52:30

was, you know, perhaps I'm here talking about

52:32

it, Michael Hutchins. Yeah, but the downside was,

52:34

you know, perhaps I'm here talking about it

52:37

now, I mean Robbie's been here today, happy

52:39

and I'm here today. That was for him,

52:41

yeah, that was late for me. That would

52:43

be an alternative title to the book, wouldn't

52:46

it? And I went to bed. The publishers

52:48

wanted me to, the title they wanted was,

52:50

I held David Bowie's cigarette or something like

52:52

that, because that was one of the things

52:54

I had to do, I had to hold

52:57

his cigarette for him in my hand. But

52:59

I went with, so tell me what you

53:01

want. I remember once doing a show, it

53:03

was actually called, it was an eponema show,

53:06

live with Gab on Channeler, a live with

53:08

Gabby on Channel Five with Gabby on Channel

53:10

5, Channel 5, Channel 5, Channel 5, on

53:12

Channel 5, on Channel 5, on Channel 5,

53:14

and it was supposed to channel 5, and

53:17

it was supposed to, and it was supposed

53:19

to, on Channel 5, and it was supposed

53:21

to, and it was supposed to, on Channel

53:23

5, and it was supposed to, on Channel

53:26

5, and it was supposed to, on Channel

53:28

5, on Channel 5, and it was supposed

53:30

to And we were doing a Christmas special

53:32

and we had some reindeer in the studio.

53:35

And we used to have animals in the

53:37

studio all the time, which seemed to go

53:39

down very well with the few viewers we

53:41

had. It only lasted about a year this

53:43

show. And my favorite talk back, because I'm

53:46

always on open talk back on life to

53:48

me, and my favorite talk back kind of

53:50

moment, one of the, definitely the top ten,

53:52

was the director saying, just strike the reindeer

53:55

for the second half. of daily life is

53:57

hearing somebody say, strike the reindeer. Is that

53:59

going to be the name of your next

54:01

book? Well, I thought if I did a

54:04

Tales from Inside Television, that would be a

54:06

good title for a book. That would be

54:08

great. Strike the reindeer. And everyone would want

54:10

to know that story. You've had such an

54:12

amazing career. You know, do you look back

54:15

and think I could have done things differently,

54:17

or do you think actually I made the

54:19

right choice at the re- belief that you're

54:21

doing the right thing, don't you? You might,

54:24

you mean, you try and follow your gut,

54:26

but then you wonder if you'd done things

54:28

in a slightly different way, where it would

54:30

have gone. But I can't complain. So, you

54:32

know what I mean? I'm really grateful for

54:35

what I've done and how it's evolved, but

54:37

yeah, I think everybody in life, you know,

54:39

you can't be that assured of yourself that

54:41

you think you've done everything, right? That would

54:44

be an extraordinary place to be. You know

54:46

that we try and you try and you

54:48

try and follow your gut. They've got no

54:50

impostor syndrome. Yeah, they're just like so focused

54:53

and talented, going to put that one in

54:55

as well, but so focused and know what

54:57

they want and brazen and can go up

54:59

to the head of the BBC and say,

55:01

I want to do this and I want

55:04

to do that. And I'm like round the

55:06

corner and I know them thinking, oh, they

55:08

don't want to know and say hello to

55:10

me, even though I've worked with them in

55:13

the past. I sometimes think... perhaps one need

55:15

to be a little bit more like. Well,

55:17

I think being Nikki Chapman has served you

55:19

well and it has been so far a

55:22

fantastic, interesting and brilliant career and long way

55:24

that continue and keep enjoying mellow magic. Thank

55:26

you very much indeed. If

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