0:01

Every little thing

0:03

you think that

0:06

you need every

0:08

little thing you

0:11

think that you

0:13

need every little

0:16

thing you think

0:18

that you need

0:20

every little thing

0:22

you think that

0:24

you need Every

0:26

little thing that's

0:28

just feeding your

0:30

greed. Oh, I

0:32

bet that you'll

0:35

be fine without

0:37

it You're

0:39

listening to the minimalist podcast

0:42

with Joshua Fields Milburn and

0:44

T.K. Coleman recorded live at

0:46

Irving Studios in sunny California. Oh,

0:49

it's frustrating how sunny it is

0:51

today. So bright! Oh, I'm so

0:53

frustrated. Thank you, Alabama. Hello, everybody.

0:55

Today on the show, we're talking

0:57

about the people, places, and things.

0:59

that frustrate the hell out of

1:01

us. Coming up on this free

1:03

public minimal episode, a caller has

1:05

a question about her sister who

1:07

is so upset that she refuses

1:09

to talk to her. And then

1:11

we've got a question about the

1:13

frustrating expectations that your family, friends,

1:15

and co-workers have of you. That's

1:18

followed by our right here, right

1:20

now segment, and a listener tip.

1:22

You can check out the maximal

1:24

edition of episode 487. That's the

1:26

full two-hour episode where we answer

1:28

three times as many questions on

1:30

Patreon. The link is in the

1:32

description. When you subscribe you can

1:34

listen to our private podcast episodes

1:36

on Apple Podcast or Spotify or

1:38

your favorite podcast. Plus you'll gain

1:40

access to all of our archives.

1:42

All the way back to episode

1:44

zero zero one. That's a full

1:46

decade of podcast archives. By the

1:48

way, big thanks to our patrons.

1:51

Your support keeps our podcast 100%

1:53

advertisement free because sing along at

1:56

home y'all. Advertising suck. And

1:58

they're so freaking frustrating. talk

2:00

about that on the sucky ad

2:03

segment on page three. But first,

2:05

let's start with our callers. If

2:07

you have a question or comment

2:10

for our show, we would love

2:12

to hear from you. Our phone

2:14

number is 406-219-839, or you can

2:17

email a voice recording to podcast

2:19

at the minimalists.com.

2:21

Our first question today is

2:24

from Hannah. And first of

2:26

all, I just want to

2:29

say thank you so much

2:31

for all of your little

2:33

snippets, your podcasts, your videos,

2:36

everything you send through email.

2:38

I love every single one

2:40

and I get value

2:42

from all of them.

2:44

The reason I'm calling

2:46

today is I would

2:48

like some insight on

2:50

a situation that I

2:53

have going on right

2:55

now with my sister.

2:57

For some context, I

2:59

have three sisters and

3:01

we have quite a big

3:03

age difference, but the closest

3:05

sister in age is the

3:08

one that I grew up

3:10

with. And the situation is

3:13

she's not talking

3:15

to me. She refuses to

3:17

look at me at family

3:20

gatherings. She's blocked me on

3:22

her phone. And I'm not

3:24

sure what to do. It

3:27

hasn't resulted in

3:29

her holding her kids

3:31

back from seeing me

3:33

and my husband, but

3:35

it's causing a lot

3:37

of grief with my

3:39

family and just me

3:42

internally. previously

3:44

in past situations she has

3:46

or I've always gone to

3:48

her and asked her what's

3:50

wrong and I'm trying to

3:52

I guess stand up for

3:54

myself and not not go

3:56

to her and always going

3:59

to her. I did

4:01

learn that she is upset with me

4:03

that she did not, she was not

4:05

the maid of honor in my wedding,

4:08

but since I have three sisters, I

4:10

didn't want to choose between them. So

4:12

any insight would be amazing and I

4:14

would just really appreciate it. Thank you

4:17

so much. TK. Let's start by thinking

4:19

about Hannah as maybe one of your

4:21

clutter counseling clients. If she were to

4:23

come to you and she was like,

4:25

hey. My sister is so upset with

4:28

me that she refuses to communicate. She

4:30

refuses to talk to me. She doesn't

4:32

look at me when we're in the

4:34

same room. She's blocked me on her

4:37

phone or maybe on social media. Where

4:39

would you start? I would start by

4:41

making my best effort to respect all

4:43

of that, not necessarily in a spirit

4:45

of accepting it as final. but in

4:48

a spirit of recognizing that we will

4:50

never have a chance to reconcile with

4:52

anyone if we cannot respect the distance

4:54

that they need, even when we think

4:57

they are being immature about it, even

4:59

when we are convinced that we would

5:01

handle things in a different way. For

5:03

me, I'm a talker. When I have

5:05

a problem, I want to talk it

5:08

out right away and I want to

5:10

get to the bottom of it. in

5:12

that conversation. Let's fix this right now.

5:14

Let's fix it right now, even if

5:17

it's five hours. I don't like to

5:19

let it linger. I don't like to

5:21

do any mind reading or any of

5:23

that kind of stuff. But a case

5:25

could be made that 75% or more

5:28

of all the people that I will

5:30

ever love are not like that. And

5:32

it is a great sacrifice for me

5:34

when a person that I'm talking with.

5:37

needs time to process things. I'm ready.

5:39

Like as soon as you say something,

5:41

I've got some questions about it, I've

5:43

got some feelings about it, I'm ready.

5:46

But most of the people need some

5:48

time and that's really really hard to

5:50

do. But one of the most loving

5:52

things you can do is to respect

5:54

that, especially if you are not like

5:57

that, to honor it and to say,

5:59

I understand. where you're coming from

6:01

even if my needs are different

6:03

and and doing that with your

6:06

behavior. The second thing I would

6:08

do is I would I would appreciate

6:10

the good side of this. The bad

6:12

side is she's blocked you. She pretends

6:15

not to see you or doesn't even

6:17

look in your direction but

6:19

my oh my this could be worse.

6:21

How gracious she is for not allowing

6:23

the children to be caught in

6:25

the crossfires of this, for still allowing

6:28

the children to experience you and to

6:30

come over your place and to spend

6:32

time with you, it's quite common for

6:34

people to contaminate the way their children

6:37

think about you, to involve everyone else

6:39

in their beef, so to speak. So

6:41

I would give her some credit for

6:43

that. The other thing I would say is

6:45

it sounds like in the beginning, like you

6:47

have no options here and she's completely

6:50

cut you off, but then... You seem

6:52

like you crack the door open a

6:54

little bit when you said you are

6:56

trying to stand up for yourself. Usually

6:58

when this sort of thing happens, you're

7:01

able to go to her and ask

7:03

her what's wrong. And it sounds like

7:05

that is an option for you here,

7:08

but you're trying to stand up for

7:10

yourself. And I would maybe make an

7:12

effort to be a little bit more

7:14

wiggly around what it means to stand

7:17

up for yourself. There are ways to

7:19

stand up for yourself. requiring

7:21

the other person to be the

7:23

one who initiates an important discussion.

7:26

Sometimes love involves recognizing when

7:28

you have strengths that other

7:30

people don't have and graciously allowing

7:32

the two of you to grow as

7:35

a result of your strengths in the

7:37

same way that this might be necessary

7:39

in different types of situations. And if

7:42

your sister here is the quote unquote

7:44

weaker party in the sense that she's

7:46

just not likely to bring up conflict.

7:49

There's a conversation that probably should

7:51

happen around that issue, but no conversation

7:53

around that issue can really happen

7:55

unless you exercise your strength and choose

7:58

to be the one to initiate. a

8:00

discussion, and I would say there's room

8:02

here to initiate a discussion if she's

8:04

open to it, to find out what's

8:06

wrong, and if you don't believe you're

8:08

wrong, you can still express your truth.

8:11

You don't have to be a doormat

8:13

to her and base your morality around

8:15

whatever fleeting emotion she has just to

8:17

be the one who initiates the conversation.

8:19

So you can initiate the conversation and

8:21

then stand up for yourself by being

8:23

not only charitable and compassionate and you're

8:26

hearing her, but being truthful and honest

8:28

in the articulating of your views to

8:30

her. But if you can get a

8:32

conversation going, it's possible to get a

8:34

conversation going around your concerns. Hey, I'm

8:36

glad we got to the bottom of

8:38

this. I'm glad we worked out a

8:41

reconciliation. Here's something that worries me though.

8:43

I feel as if we would have

8:45

never gotten to this place if I

8:47

would have initiated a conversation. It seems

8:49

to be the case that whenever you're

8:51

upset at me, you are willing to

8:54

go indefinitely without saying a word to

8:56

me and I'm the one that has

8:58

to talk. That's not something that I

9:00

like. I like our relationship, but I

9:02

would like a way of resolving conflicts.

9:04

that's based a little bit more on

9:06

some mutual accountability and mutual trust. When

9:09

you get upset at me, I don't

9:11

want to have to be perfect at

9:13

guessing that you are upset because I'm

9:15

not as good at that as you

9:17

think. I would like a way of

9:19

knowing that you're mad at me and

9:21

you have an issue with me that

9:24

involves some communication on your part. Would

9:26

you be willing to work together with

9:28

me to find a better way for

9:30

us to get to the bottom of

9:32

our problems, but you can't get there?

9:34

if you don't exercise the advantage and

9:36

the strength that you have right now

9:39

of being the one to initiate the

9:41

discussion. And also you can't get there

9:43

if you're pointing and saying here's where

9:45

you're wrong or here's where you wrong

9:47

to me or you know what I

9:49

get this the situation seems really frustrating

9:52

and if I was in handish shoes

9:54

I would definitely be frustrated. It was

9:56

Ram Das who said every relationship is

9:58

a process of falling down. And

10:01

if I were to attend that at all,

10:03

I might say that every relationship is

10:05

about learning how to fall so you

10:07

don't hurt yourself. Right? Because what's happening

10:09

here is there's a stumbling that's going

10:12

on in this relationship or the lack

10:14

of a relationship right now. Part of

10:16

that has to do with an expectation

10:19

that you might have that my sister

10:21

should treat me this way. She should

10:23

be there for me or she shouldn't

10:26

be upset. Also, she shouldn't frustrate me.

10:28

But of course, your sister can't frustrate

10:30

you. If you're frustrated here, that's

10:32

your problem. Now maybe she

10:34

did something and it calls that

10:36

frustration, but you decided to hold on

10:39

to that frustration. And that's always really

10:41

difficult to admit, but you continue to

10:43

hold on to that frustration the longer

10:46

that you need to be right. And

10:48

in order for you to be right

10:50

in this situation, your sister has to

10:52

be wrong, because clearly your sister wronged

10:55

you. And you know what? I look

10:57

at this and it's easy for me

10:59

to say, I can't believe your sister

11:02

is mad at you because you

11:04

wouldn't make her the maid of

11:06

honor, right? Okay, so maybe you're

11:08

right here, but you don't want

11:10

to be right. You don't care

11:12

about being right. What you care

11:14

about is having a connection with

11:17

your sister. And in this scenario,

11:19

you may have to go

11:21

to her and say, I'm

11:24

going to sit down, my

11:26

self-righteousness. That's what's blocking me

11:28

from letting go right now.

11:30

In fact, that's what's making

11:33

me so frustrated. I'm gonna

11:35

set that down just for a

11:37

moment. You can pick it

11:39

back up later if you want

11:42

to, right? I'm gonna set down

11:44

that need to be right. And as

11:46

I set that down, I'm gonna say,

11:48

hey, you know what? I know you

11:50

were offended. I know you

11:53

were offended. And I am sorry.

11:55

Man. How powerful is that? Because what do

11:57

you want? Do you want to be right? Or do

11:59

you want... this connection with your sister.

12:01

If you're willing to set down the

12:03

righteousness, you may very well, you may

12:06

pick up the connection with your sister.

12:08

I'd like to do some conversational role

12:10

play with you and we're going to

12:12

assume that it actually is about the

12:14

maid of honor, but we should flag

12:17

that and say we don't know until

12:19

that conversation is had. It could be

12:21

something else. All right, so I'm going

12:23

to be the offended party and I'm

12:26

offended at you and I'll just start

12:28

right there. Yeah, I'm glad you initiated

12:30

this conversation. I'm glad you came to

12:32

me. Yeah, I am upset. Yeah, I'm

12:35

sorry Yeah, I think what you did

12:37

was wrong. I think I'm your sister

12:39

everything we've been through I should have

12:41

been the maid of honor. There's no

12:43

question about that I understand tell me

12:46

more about that I mean there's really

12:48

nothing else to say I Should have

12:50

been in that position Do you understand

12:52

why it was a difficult decision for

12:55

me? I

12:58

don't know if I care, but why

13:00

was it a difficult decision for you?

13:03

Well, because I have several sisters and

13:05

I didn't want to feel like I

13:07

was playing favorites. And I would hope

13:10

the same thing with you, that you

13:12

wouldn't. I wouldn't compel you to play

13:14

favorites with me. And I know that's

13:17

not what you were trying to do,

13:19

but that was the dilemma I was

13:21

in. And I know that offended you

13:24

and there was probably a better way

13:26

I could have approached it. So maybe

13:28

you could talk to me about a

13:31

better way to approach that going forward.

13:33

Okay. I'm trying to think of a

13:35

difficult response. I have not been left

13:38

other than just like give you a...

13:40

Okay, fine. Or a... or a... Let

13:42

me think about that. Well, the alternate

13:45

role play to this is like, well,

13:47

you see, here's the problem, you were

13:49

wrong and I was right. No, no,

13:52

no, I was right and you were

13:54

wrong. And then it escalates and there's,

13:56

you may end up right at the

13:59

end of it, but you're going to

14:01

end up without a sister. There will

14:03

be some instances where that makes more

14:05

sense. Not every death of a relationship

14:08

is a catastrophe. There's a fear here,

14:10

right? We're going to talk a bit

14:12

today about fear and how our fears

14:15

are intertwined with or maybe even entangled

14:17

with our frustrations, right? And so we're

14:19

going to talk a bit about that,

14:22

but I think ultimately behind all of

14:24

those fears is some sort of fear

14:26

of death. And we treat death as

14:29

though it's the ultimate bad thing.

14:31

Now, of course, I'm talking about

14:33

literal death there, but there's also

14:35

the death of a relationship. And

14:38

sometimes certain relationships

14:40

die. It may not be the relationship

14:42

itself. It may not be the other

14:44

person in the relationship. But what dies

14:47

here is my need to be right.

14:49

Or what dies here is the way

14:51

that things were. I'm going to have

14:54

to let that former relationship die so

14:56

that we can move forward in a

14:58

more healthy, connected way. Yeah, my final

15:00

point here would be you don't have

15:03

to be the one to initiate a

15:05

conversation with your sister. I'm not laying

15:07

down a law here that says you

15:09

must do this, and if you don't,

15:11

you're wrong. If you decide I'm done

15:13

with that, I've tried that enough times

15:16

and I promise myself I'm never going

15:18

to do that again, I honor and

15:20

respect that, I totally get that. However,

15:22

it just doesn't sound to me like

15:24

that's what you want. It doesn't sound

15:26

to me like this is the kind

15:28

of relationship. that you can easily or

15:30

readily cut off and live in peace.

15:32

It sounds to me like this is

15:34

the kind of relationship where if you

15:37

do cut it off or accept that

15:39

it has ended, you're going to want

15:41

to have that feeling of peace that

15:43

comes from annoying. You truly gave it

15:45

your best shot and tried all that

15:47

you could. And so I do recommend

15:49

in this case to separate the idea

15:51

of standing up for yourself from

15:53

the idea of initiating the

15:55

conversation. initiate a conversation,

15:57

listen charitably and compassionately.

16:00

and then try to get to a

16:02

reconciliation. And if you're able to do

16:04

that, use it as an opportunity to

16:06

talk about the way problems get solved

16:08

in the future so that you don't

16:11

have to do this anymore. And then

16:13

you can stand your ground on whatever

16:15

agreements you come to. And there will

16:17

be times where you have to let

16:20

go of a relationship at some point,

16:22

because, well, maybe you don't have access

16:24

to the person anymore, and it may

16:26

not be for your sister here, Hannah,

16:28

but there will always be people from

16:31

whom you walk away, and you need

16:33

to walk away. You need to love

16:35

them from a distance. I think of

16:37

the wise words from the philosopher Tupac

16:40

Shakur. He said, just because you lost

16:42

me as a friend doesn't mean you

16:44

gained me as an enemy. I'm bigger

16:46

than that. I still want to see

16:48

you eat, just not at my table.

16:51

And isn't that... the spirit of love.

16:53

I might need to love you from

16:55

a distance, but it doesn't mean that

16:57

I've gained an enemy in you, even

17:00

if we're a part, even if we're

17:02

no longer connected. It means I can

17:04

want the best from you, even if

17:06

it is from a distance. DK, do

17:08

you think that Hannah would find some

17:11

value in your emotional clutter, because there's

17:13

a lot of emotional clutter behind this?

17:15

I think I would encourage you to

17:17

download it over at the minimalists.com on

17:20

the free resources page up there. Just

17:22

click resources at the top. You can

17:24

download emotional clutter for free or you

17:26

can check out the the audio book

17:28

version as well. I say let's give

17:31

Hannah a free clutter counseling session as

17:33

well. We'll reach out to you. Let's

17:35

sit down and unpack this for about

17:37

an hour and make sure you're feeling

17:40

really good about this conversation if you're

17:42

going to go into it. I think

17:44

that's super helpful. If you want to

17:46

get a clutter counseling session with TK,

17:48

you can head over to the minimalist.com

17:51

and just click counseling at the middle

17:53

list.com and just click counseling at the

17:55

top. His calendar is open. You can

17:57

book a appointment today. Before we get

18:00

back to our callers, Malabama, what time

18:02

is? We attempt to answer your question

18:04

with a short, shareable, minimal, maxim. You

18:06

can find this episode's Maxim's and the

18:08

show notes over at the minimalist.com/podcast and

18:11

every minimal maxim ever over at minimal

18:13

maxims.com. We'll also deliver our weekly show

18:15

notes directly to your inbox including seven

18:17

new maxims every Monday for free. If

18:20

you sign up for our email newsletter

18:22

at the minimalist dot email. We'll never

18:24

send you spam or junk or advertisements

18:26

because we don't want to frustrate you,

18:28

right? this week. What frustrating

18:31

expectations do your family,

18:33

friends, or co-workers have

18:35

of you? Oh, what frustrating expectations.

18:37

All right, before we get to

18:40

our our pithy answers, TK. I

18:42

want to hear from some

18:44

of our simpletons, Alabama. What

18:46

did our listeners have to

18:49

say? John said, there's an

18:51

expectation that I am the

18:53

only one who can hold

18:55

everything else has a repercussion.

18:57

late to school, missed assignment,

18:59

bill not paid, appointment missed,

19:01

etc. TK. Is it possible

19:03

that John accidentally set this

19:05

expectation with others? I'm the

19:07

dependable one. That may very well

19:10

be possible or it may very well

19:12

be the case that John is the

19:14

one who cares about these things and

19:16

no one else in the situation really

19:18

cares about it, such that if

19:20

the consequences were experienced,

19:22

they be all right. I don't know for sure

19:24

that's the case, but that could be the

19:26

case here. I think this would be a

19:29

great opportunity to take some inventory and see

19:31

if we can get the people that we're

19:33

doing all these things for to adopt some

19:35

skin in the game, to articulate how important

19:37

these things are to them, and then ask

19:40

them, what are they willing to do in

19:42

order to receive my help? Because my help

19:44

will be going forward a form of support,

19:46

not a form of carrying you on my

19:48

back entirely for something that you say you

19:51

care about. I've noticed quite often the

19:53

expectations other people have of me. It's

19:55

because I set them up unbeknownst to

19:57

myself. I'm going to be the dependable.

20:00

and I'm going to be the one

20:02

you can count on. You can come

20:04

to me for this, this, this, and

20:06

this, and that's fine until those demands

20:08

are so taxing that it's actually draining

20:10

from me. It causes some sort of

20:13

suffering, or maybe it just calls us

20:15

a type of clutter. It gets in

20:17

the way of my calendar. It gets

20:19

in the way of how I want

20:21

to spend my time. I'm thinking about...

20:23

just this past weekend. It feels like

20:26

when we record these episodes, I always

20:28

have two or three or four life

20:30

events that correspond perfectly with the topic

20:32

that we're getting ready to talk about.

20:34

So I had several things that frustrated

20:37

me recently, this past week. In fact,

20:39

I was at Sunday Symposium this weekend,

20:41

and I was on stage. One of

20:44

the first things I said is, you

20:46

know how I know I'm not enlightened?

20:48

My in-laws are staying with us this

20:51

week. Now it's my sister-in-law, my brother-in-law,

20:53

and there are three kids. We have

20:55

a relatively small house. It's not a

20:58

tiny home, but it's a three bedroom

21:00

home and they're staying with us

21:02

and there's four kids and four

21:04

adults now and wow. Talk about frustrating,

21:07

but of course, the little

21:09

kids didn't frustrate me. The other

21:11

adults didn't frustrate me. I was frustrating myself.

21:13

And by the way, these are all things

21:15

I said yes to as well. And then

21:17

this morning I was going to blow dry

21:19

my hair as I do. It looks a

21:21

little crazy right now. I came in here.

21:24

Malabam was like, oh my gosh, don't ever

21:26

shave your head. It's like

21:28

watching like a bird take a bath.

21:30

It looks like a totally different animal

21:32

and you're like, wow. I was so

21:35

frustrated because I didn't have my hair

21:37

dryer this morning because Savvy D had

21:39

my hair dryer even though he has

21:41

no hair. Look at that. What's going

21:43

on? What is happening? Josh lost three

21:45

inches of height without his hair. I

21:48

know. I went down to six two

21:50

from six five with hair. And you

21:52

know what's what? And of course Savvy

21:54

D didn't frustrate me or... Mallory didn't

21:56

frustrate me. TK couldn't make it

21:58

to Sunday Symposium. He called me,

22:01

what was it, 5 a.m. or

22:03

6 a.m. on Sunday morning, I'm

22:05

laying on the floor super quiet

22:07

because I have a house full

22:09

of all these kids and all

22:11

these other people and I'm the

22:13

first one up and I'm doing

22:15

some stretches on the living room

22:17

floor, I'm laying there, I've got

22:19

my earpiece in, all of a

22:21

sudden I hear phone call from

22:23

TK Coleman. And so I answered

22:25

the phone like, hello, because I

22:27

don't want to wake anyone wake

22:29

anyone up. And I thought Tikaa

22:31

had been shot Tika had been

22:33

shot. I'm like great, I'm your

22:35

last phone call. I love you

22:37

TK, but this is really frustrating

22:39

that I'm your last phone call.

22:41

What if I just went to

22:43

say, I love you? I'd say

22:46

I love you too. But I'd

22:48

say death is the ultimate letting

22:50

go. Actually, I just said to

22:52

myself, I don't think I said

22:54

to you on the phone. But

22:56

he couldn't make it sunny to

22:58

suppose him. He had a night

23:00

where he was sick and totally

23:02

understand that. I've... definitely had those

23:04

nights and so I show up

23:06

to Sunday Supposing and by myself

23:08

and it turned out to be

23:10

great. There were a million errors

23:12

at the venue because they had

23:14

just put everything back together and

23:16

so that was frustrating me as

23:18

well because our sound check was

23:20

going over and there were problems

23:22

with the lighting and Mallory's trying

23:24

to super glue everything together to

23:26

make it work and and she

23:28

and Savvy D did and they

23:31

worked with Jack in the venue

23:33

there and West Hollywood and it

23:35

all came together and my frustrations

23:37

didn't help me one bit. In

23:39

fact, that morning, right before the

23:41

event, I stopped by backyard bowls

23:43

right across the street, and I

23:45

got a island bowl, a Saeed

23:47

bowl over there, and I said,

23:49

ah, but no granola, please. And

23:51

they're like, okay, gotcha, no granola.

23:53

I type it in the computer,

23:55

no granola, and I go to

23:57

pick it up at the other

23:59

end, they call my name, and

24:01

Joshua, great. I picked it out,

24:03

I started eating it, and of

24:05

course, and of it, Because I'm

24:07

frustrated they put Organic food in

24:09

my food. And it's like it

24:11

was frustrated me at first. But

24:13

that frustration didn't really do anything

24:16

for me. It was punishing myself

24:18

twice, because I could say, okay,

24:20

I'll have them remake the bowl

24:22

and spend some time doing that.

24:24

But the frustration never helps with

24:26

my problem. Maybe it points toward

24:28

my fears or insecurities, and I'm

24:30

sure we'll talk a bit about

24:32

that. But those expectations other people

24:34

have of John or of anyone

24:36

else listening to this Yeah, sometimes

24:38

they have unrealistic expectations That's on

24:40

them, but it's on you to

24:42

decide whether or not you're frustrated

24:44

about those and maybe you didn't

24:46

even make that decision that it's

24:48

frustrating But now you're making the

24:50

decision to hold on to that

24:52

frustration. How long do I want

24:54

to be frustrated about their expectations?

24:56

There's an essay on our website

24:58

One of my favorites that I've

25:01

ever written came out last year

25:03

called store brand insecurity. We'll put

25:05

a link to this in the

25:07

show notes. But that line from

25:09

that essay that really stands out

25:11

to me is you care what

25:13

other people think. You yearn for

25:15

their acceptance because there's an underlying

25:17

dissatisfaction in your own life. And

25:19

that's a hard one to admit.

25:21

But I think it's true for

25:23

the vast majority of people. We...

25:25

want to be accepted by other

25:27

people because we want that connection,

25:29

but there's some sort of dissatisfaction

25:31

in my life that amplifies my

25:33

need for you to accept me

25:35

and therefore for you to complete

25:37

me. What else you got, Bama?

25:39

Kyle said the most frustrating things

25:41

to me are the seemingly contrasting

25:43

expectations I receive. Put your foot

25:46

down, but not with me. Make

25:48

a decision already, but go with

25:50

the flow. Take some more time

25:52

for yourself. Why don't we ever

25:54

see you anymore? Oh yeah, this

25:56

is frustrating. TK, how many of

25:58

our expectations are contradictory? Well... It

26:00

sounds to me like this is a case

26:02

where other people are encouraging him

26:05

to do something good, but as

26:07

long as it doesn't require them

26:09

to sacrifice their access to him.

26:11

I watched my father as a

26:13

pastor go through this where He was

26:15

a man that a lot of people wanted

26:18

to talk to about their challenges, and I

26:20

totally understand. And there would be a long

26:22

line of people that would say, hey, I

26:24

just need two minutes, I just need five

26:27

minutes. And he was very generous with this

26:29

time. It was never five minutes, of course.

26:31

It was always 15 or 20 or something

26:33

along those lines. But I remember all of

26:36

those people would also passionately tell him, make

26:38

sure you get some rest, make sure you

26:40

put boundaries around your time, don't give yourself

26:43

over to people too much, but they never

26:45

mith it towards them. And it's

26:47

an understandable oversight that just happens.

26:49

I think when people say these

26:51

sorts of things to you, it's an

26:54

opportunity to sort of hold up a

26:56

gentle mirror, helping them to see how

26:58

their own cooperation. can help you in

27:00

the living out of whatever advice it

27:02

is they're giving you. So if someone

27:04

that's demanding a lot of your time

27:06

says, hey, you need to take more

27:08

time to yourself, you can say to

27:11

them, one of the reasons why that's

27:13

difficult is that everyone advises

27:15

me to do that, but no one wants

27:18

to be the one who sacrifices having

27:20

time with me. Would you be willing to

27:22

be one of the ones who makes our

27:24

sacrifice so I can get that rest? You

27:26

know, when else I complain about something,

27:28

or I don't even complain about

27:31

it out loud, I catch myself,

27:33

I'm getting ready to complain, or

27:35

I have a complaint that I

27:37

want to formally put into the

27:39

complaint box, right? I want to

27:41

put it out into the world.

27:43

I also realize that my complaints

27:46

often point toward my clinging. I'm

27:48

clinging to the way I wish this was.

27:50

And it's not that way, so I'm going

27:52

to keep clinging to that. But if I

27:54

ceased clinging, if I just let go of

27:56

the way I wish things were, I wish

27:58

these people didn't have these. expectations of me.

28:01

Yeah, sometimes we can do a

28:03

better job of setting expectations. But

28:05

sometimes people are just going to

28:07

have unrealistic expectations and they don't

28:09

know it. And you may not

28:11

have time to tell every single

28:13

person. Your dad certainly didn't have

28:15

time to tell every person, your

28:17

dad certainly didn't have time to

28:19

tell every person individually that their

28:22

expectation is slightly unreasonable. He didn't

28:24

have the time to parse that

28:26

out. because he would have spent

28:28

all his time just readjusting everyone's

28:30

expectations, which are already adjusting on

28:32

their own anyway. And so he

28:34

in a way had to let

28:36

go of their expectations, even if

28:38

they were continuing to hold on

28:41

to those expectations for him. Let's

28:43

do one more, Bama. This one

28:45

comes from Kylie. My mother and

28:47

sisters expect me to give unconditionally,

28:49

continuously. If I stop for whatever

28:51

reason, I lose all value. Once

28:53

I'm useful again, I'm back in

28:55

their club. That isn't to say,

28:57

I'm appreciated. I'm just allowed to

28:59

be part of the circle once

29:02

more. If I complain, I'm being

29:04

ridiculous or oversensitive. Okay, stop being

29:06

ridiculous. You have no way to

29:08

respond to, you're just being sensitive.

29:10

No, I'm not! It's like, see?

29:12

Talk to me about this, because

29:14

we often want to be members

29:16

of a club that we don't

29:18

even enjoy being in. Well, sometimes,

29:21

especially in cases like this, where

29:23

that club is family, we do

29:25

feel deeply wedded to the idea

29:27

that if we can just get

29:29

it right. we really would enjoy

29:31

it. Or that we're not going

29:33

to have a better chance at

29:35

enjoyment or a better chance of

29:37

a good club to be in

29:39

than this one. And that's a

29:42

really tricky issue when it comes

29:44

to family. I find one of

29:46

the tragic but harsh realities about

29:48

manipulation is that people manipulate because

29:50

it works. Guilt tripping actually works.

29:52

We tend to respond. to it

29:54

really effectively. It doesn't work in

29:56

producing long-term change, but it can

29:58

work in getting you to do

30:00

something that you don't want to

30:03

do right now, even if you

30:05

resent me for it later. And

30:07

for people that are just focused

30:09

on what they want, they'll let

30:11

you handle that long-term resentment. And

30:13

I find that sometimes, especially when

30:15

dealing with people who think they

30:17

know us really well, it takes

30:19

a longer amount of time to

30:22

reinforce in their mind a new

30:24

you. And so if you've been

30:26

a yes person all your life

30:28

and people know they can manipulate

30:30

you, people know they can just sort

30:32

of exclude you from the club and

30:35

that you'll eventually change your behavior, the

30:37

first time you say no, they're not

30:39

going to take you seriously. You've got

30:41

a whole track record of saying, hey.

30:44

I can be manipulated, I can be

30:46

swayed, just stop talking to me

30:48

for two months and then I'll

30:50

come back, you know, apologizing. And

30:52

sometimes you have to be willing

30:54

to think about what you're willing

30:56

to pay for self-respect. And

30:58

sometimes there's something to be

31:00

sad about having an attitude

31:02

that says, I love all my people.

31:05

But if you need to stop talking to

31:07

me for one month, two months, three

31:09

months, four months, five years. because

31:11

you're mad at me being honest about

31:13

what I truly feel, I'm mentally,

31:16

psychologically prepared to endure

31:18

that for the sake of making sure that

31:20

whatever we have, it's based on truth

31:22

and authenticity and not on the lies

31:24

I think I need to tell in

31:27

order to keep us together. And you

31:29

be amazed at how many people change

31:31

the way they respect you and show

31:33

up for you when you actually command

31:35

the respect. I think there's an identity

31:37

component here as well. Our identities. Yeah

31:39

we can call it the ego which

31:41

is just the false self right but

31:43

our identities we were talking about this

31:46

is Sunday symposium this week we're talking

31:48

about all the false identities that we

31:50

pick up and they're really useful as labels

31:52

if I tell you I'm a minimalist that

31:54

tells you something about me but as soon

31:56

as I identify as a minimalist well that's

31:58

a type of clinging right And of course

32:01

that clinging leads to suffering, so

32:03

our identities form the root of our

32:05

suffering. And I think that can be

32:07

true in a family especially. My

32:09

identity is part of, I'm part of

32:12

this family. I'm a family member, I'm

32:14

a millburn, right? But of course you

32:16

have your biological family, and then

32:18

you have your logical family. And while

32:21

T.K. is my biological family, Alabama isn't

32:23

my biological family, Savidie D. or post-production

32:25

Peter or Ryan Nicodemus aren't my

32:27

biological family, I consider them part of

32:30

my logical family. These are people that

32:32

I choose to spend time with. Because

32:34

time is a limited resource, that

32:36

also means I have less time for

32:39

a biological family. There are people in

32:41

my biological family, aunts and uncles and

32:43

cousins, who I haven't renounced, I

32:45

haven't shunned, but I don't actively... reach

32:48

out to those people. And it's not

32:50

because I hate them or I dislike

32:52

them or they're enemies of mine.

32:54

They're not. It's just I have a

32:57

logical family, a chosen family, the people

32:59

that I'm choosing to give my most

33:01

precious resources to, my energy, my

33:03

time, my attention, my understanding, my love,

33:06

my compassion, right? And these are things

33:08

that I can give to you, right?

33:10

Even if you don't know that

33:12

I'm giving them to you. But also

33:15

the opposite is true. And I think

33:17

this is what Kylie's saying here is

33:19

these are things people can take

33:21

from you. And you don't realize and

33:24

they don't realize they're taking these precious

33:26

resources from you. So whom do you

33:28

want to spend your resources on, Kylie?

33:31

And if you're identifying with a

33:33

way of life that is clinging, that

33:35

is leading you to suffering, you can

33:37

set down that identity so that you

33:40

can move forward. How about you

33:42

listeners? What frustrating expectations do your family

33:44

and friends or even your co-workers have

33:46

of you? Let us know your thoughts

33:49

on the patron community chat, which

33:51

by the way, you can join for

33:53

free even if you don't subscribe to

33:55

our private podcast on. on Patreon. We'd

33:58

love to see you there on

34:00

the private podcast every week, but you

34:02

can join the community chats for free.

34:04

Okay, give me something pithy, TK. What

34:07

frustrating expectations do your family, friends,

34:09

or co-workers have of you? Josh wants

34:11

me to be here every day at

34:13

915. It was ridiculous. Man, we talk

34:16

about being all time. One man's

34:18

potential is another man's prison. There's someone

34:20

out there who thinks that the best

34:22

way for them to be. the highest

34:25

version of themselves is to be

34:27

really wealthy. And so when they look

34:29

at your life, they see it through

34:32

that lens. There's someone out there who

34:34

thinks the best way for them

34:36

to be the highest version of themselves

34:38

is to have a certain kind of

34:41

spouse or a certain kind of house,

34:43

to achieve a certain level of

34:45

intellectual prowess and so on. We look

34:47

at other people through the lens of

34:50

our own values, and from that perspective

34:52

we say, fulfill your potential, which

34:54

is why I often say that for

34:56

every great achiever. for every happy person,

34:59

there's someone back home who's wondering when

35:01

their dear old buddy went off

35:03

the deep end. Is he still doing

35:05

that like little minimalism thing? Is he

35:08

still doing that little podcasting? What's Bama

35:10

doing, man? I know, I remember Bama

35:12

from high school, she's still doing

35:14

a little acting thing, and she's still

35:17

doing a little, everything that you do.

35:19

is an underfulfillment of your potential to

35:21

someone else. And so potential can

35:23

be a trap. And I think for

35:26

me, I wouldn't use the word frustrating,

35:28

but I would say disappointing. It's when

35:30

I see people that I love,

35:32

talk about other people that I love,

35:35

as if they shouldn't be as happy

35:37

and fulfilled as they are, because they're

35:39

not fulfilling their potential as someone

35:41

else defines it. Wow. Wow. You know

35:44

what frustrates me is. I thought you

35:46

were doing a whole Dr. Seuss routine

35:48

there and you're like having a

35:50

better house and a better spouse and

35:53

you were going so I'm like, oh,

35:55

this is having a better suit or

35:57

a better blouse. I'm frustrated. you

35:59

didn't finish all of the run. But

36:02

you didn't frustrate me. I frustrated myself.

36:04

TK. Which brings me my pithy answer.

36:06

Originally I was going to say

36:08

every expectation adds another bar to your

36:11

prison cell. That's something that we shared

36:13

on Instagram recently. We've been doing these

36:15

little, we call them stealth reels.

36:17

And it's like a, we do a

36:20

quick video and then we put like

36:22

a maxim over top of it. We're

36:24

sharing minimal maxims on the minimalist

36:26

Instagram account. Usually on Thursdays, and just

36:29

on a story and then it goes

36:31

away. And so I love the little ephemeral

36:33

nature of that. But one of the things

36:35

we shared, I was, it looked like I

36:37

was in a prison, I was, it looked

36:39

like I was, I was, I was, I

36:41

was, construction site down here is this huge

36:43

fence, and we were able to get through

36:46

it on the other side, and I'm holding

36:48

on to the fence, and it just says

36:50

that every expectation adds another bar to your

36:52

prison cell. Now, one might argue that we're

36:54

all in some sort of prison, but pick

36:56

the prison you want to be in, and

36:58

what expectations are you going to let go

37:01

of, because the more expectations you

37:03

have, the smaller that prison cell

37:05

becomes. But that's not my pithy

37:07

answer. Today, I just wrote this

37:09

down on the. And so my

37:11

answer to the question of the

37:13

week is this, your frustrations point

37:15

toward your fears. It was the Buddha

37:17

who said, fear is the result

37:19

of ignorance. So we are ignorant

37:21

every time we have some sort

37:23

of fear, some sort of worry. And

37:26

then we try to worry our way

37:28

to success. If I just worry enough,

37:30

then maybe the outcome will change. And

37:32

then you end up in the same

37:35

exact place. whether or not you were

37:37

worrying, whether or not you were clinging

37:39

to that worry. And I would say

37:41

the same thing is true with our

37:44

expectations and our frustrations. Anytime I'm frustrated

37:46

about something, I'm also fearful of something.

37:48

I'm frustrated about my hair dryer. I

37:50

didn't have it in here this morning.

37:52

What am I actually frustrated about? I'm

37:55

afraid that people don't like the way

37:57

my hair looks. Okay. Maybe they won't.

37:59

So what? What's that going to do

38:01

to me? Is it going to hurt

38:03

me physically? Is it going to hurt

38:06

my ego? Oh, it's not going to

38:08

hurt me physically, but maybe there's something

38:10

I need to project this image. I'm

38:12

the type of person who always has

38:15

big nice hair. And then as soon

38:17

as you say it out loud, you

38:19

realize how absurd these fears are. In

38:21

fact, that's a practice I do regularly.

38:24

Anytime that I fear something or I'm

38:26

frustrated by something. I write it down

38:28

and I get it out of my

38:30

mind where it takes up so much

38:33

space. We just did an episode about

38:35

the small things. They feel like a

38:37

big deal. The small things that turn

38:39

into a big problem. But the opposite

38:42

is true. Those big problems in our

38:44

head become so small when we get

38:46

them on the page or when we

38:48

say them out loud. That is the

38:50

end of page one, but we still

38:53

have an entire switchboard of colors to

38:55

talk to. But first, real quick for

38:57

right here, right now, here's one thing

38:59

that's going on in the life of

39:02

the minimalist. You know, Nicadimus is going

39:04

to be back in studio with us

39:06

really soon. Yes, indeed, I hope y'all

39:08

are excited. You know, he'll be in

39:11

town for Sunday Symposium this month, will

39:13

be in Santa Barbara, the final Sunday

39:15

of the month. I think there are

39:17

still some tickets available on our events

39:20

page over at the minimalist.com. Also, we're

39:22

doing a three-day simple haven retreat. It's

39:24

called Simple Haven. It's three days with

39:26

the minimalist me and TK and Nicodemus

39:29

will be there. I don't know if

39:31

there are any tickets left by the

39:33

time this time this. Two days in

39:35

Ohio and then one day in Santa

39:38

Barbara for the Sunday Supposing. We have

39:40

people coming from all over the place,

39:42

the Czech Republic from Texas, two of

39:44

my favorite countries. And we have people

39:47

coming from all over the place. Hope

39:49

to see you there at either one

39:51

of those. Nicodemus will be there with

39:53

us and he'll be in studio as

39:56

well. So if you have a specific

39:58

question for Ryan Nicodemus, he's coming back

40:00

here to California to California. at the

40:02

minimalists.com. We'll have Nicodemus answer your question

40:05

live on the podcast. You guys excited

40:07

to see Nicodemus live and in person?

40:09

Hex, yeah, baby. Nicodemus live. Yeah, I

40:11

miss that man so much. His presence

40:13

brings so much warmth to any space

40:15

that he fills. It is just, he's

40:18

just a ball of minimalist joy.

40:20

Yeah, Bama, don't you have a

40:22

great Nicodemus impersonist impersonation?

40:24

No, but I need to add that

40:26

to my story. Every miccadimus. Every mic

40:28

check we do off miccadimus. And

40:31

he always puts a finger

40:33

mustache over his mouth. Over

40:35

his mustache? Over his mouth?

40:37

Over his mustache? Over his

40:39

mustache? Over his mustache? I'm

40:41

like, it's already there, my

40:43

guy. Looking forward to having

40:45

Nicadimus back in the studio.

40:47

Also, we're going to have

40:49

a divorce attorney in the

40:51

studio. We're doing a whole

40:53

divorce episode. about breakups, about

40:55

ending things amicably, about. When things

40:58

blow up, what to do about

41:00

prenuptial agreements, about post-nuptial agreements, about

41:02

struggles during a marriage, he's a

41:04

really brilliant divorce attorney. Can't wait

41:06

to have him in the studio.

41:08

You can send in your divorce

41:10

questions, your breakup questions, your marriage

41:12

questions, podcast at the minimalist.com. Send

41:14

us a voice memo so we

41:16

can air your question on the

41:18

show. Also a quick programming note,

41:20

I'm going on vacation next week,

41:22

so we don't have a podcast

41:24

next week. We will see you

41:26

in two weeks after this we saw

41:28

a whole lot more to talk about

41:30

on page two and page three But

41:33

Malabam what else you got for us?

41:35

Here's a minimalist inside from one of

41:37

our listeners Hi minimalist this

41:39

is Madison here in Oceanside California I

41:41

have some insight for the mom who

41:43

called in who was dealing with the

41:46

kids clothes and kids clutter I have

41:48

three kids and a bonus kiddo here

41:50

at the house ranging from age four

41:52

to 13 and a kiddo with a

41:55

disability So we have a lot of

41:57

accessories. One of my biggest pieces of

41:59

advice. on the kids' clothing is

42:01

to be very intentional and picky

42:03

about what you keep for the

42:06

next kid below it. So I

42:08

usually take a smaller box. I

42:10

think like they have like banker

42:12

boxes, nothing too big, and make

42:14

sure it's clear. And I go

42:16

through the kids' clothes and imagine

42:18

would I buy this again for

42:21

this next kid? It has stains

42:23

or rips, of course it is

42:25

getting passed on or repurposed. And

42:27

then I am very picky, almost

42:29

like I'm going through boutique, of

42:31

what I purchased this again. It

42:33

helps you kind of come from

42:35

the lens of being very purposeful

42:37

about kids' clothing, and I do

42:39

the same thing for kids' toys.

42:41

Where I do not keep kids'

42:43

clothes anymore is after they hit

42:45

junior high. Once they hit junior

42:47

high I've noticed four fifth grade,

42:49

they start to want to choose

42:51

their own clothes and often the

42:53

siblings before them's personality and clothing

42:55

is different than the next kiddo

42:58

in line. At that age I

43:00

just passed the clothes on, bless and

43:02

release. Also I try to not have a

43:04

scarcity mindset about clothing and toys

43:06

when it comes to children. This

43:08

is a little bit different with

43:10

our kiddo with a disability. because

43:12

those things are hard to replace,

43:14

but typical kids, it is very

43:16

easy to source clothing and toys

43:18

if you happen to pass it

43:20

on. I try not to keep

43:23

too many clothes, maybe like one

43:25

age to two ages up in

43:27

their closet, so it's a very

43:29

easy taking the bin down and

43:31

substituting the clothes and then blessing

43:33

and releasing the clothes we're not

43:35

going to use anymore. I hope

43:37

that's really helpful. Hang in there,

43:39

mamas. It's a tough job you're

43:41

doing. Oh, Mattis, thank you so much

43:43

for that helpful, that insightful comment that

43:45

you had there. Hope to see you

43:47

at our next Sunday Symposium in Orange

43:49

County, since you're in Southern California and

43:51

you're south of us here. So we'll

43:53

see you in Orange County next month.

43:55

Free tickets over on the website, though,

43:57

minimalist.com. Just click on Events at the...

44:00

get those tickets while they are still

44:02

available. For anyone else who has a

44:04

listener tip or insight about this episode,

44:06

send a voice memo to podcast at

44:08

the minimalist.com so we can feature your

44:11

voice on the show up next page

44:13

two and page three. But first, let's

44:15

take a quick pandiculation break. We'll be

44:17

right back. All

44:19

right, that's the first 33% of

44:21

episode 487. We'll see you on

44:23

Patreon for the full maximal edition,

44:26

which includes answers to a bunch

44:28

more questions. Questions like, what are

44:30

seven habits that are making your

44:32

house feel more cluttered? How can

44:34

I help someone realize that their

44:37

self-indulgence is harmful? And how can

44:39

I encourage my workplace to let

44:41

go of hustle culture? Plus a

44:43

million more questions and simple living

44:45

segments over on the minimalist private

44:47

podcast on. And that is our

44:50

minimal episode for today. Big

44:52

thanks to Earthing Studios for

44:54

the recording space. On behalf

44:56

of Ryan Academas, T.K. Coleman,

44:58

Malabamma, post-production Peter, Spire Jeff,

45:00

and Spire Dave, Savvy D

45:02

on the board, and the

45:04

rest of our team. I'm

45:06

Joshua Fields Milburn. If you leave

45:08

here with just one message, let

45:10

it be this. Love people, and

45:12

use things. Because the opposite

45:14

is so freaking

45:16

frustrating. Thanks for

45:18

listening y'all. We'll see

45:21

you next time. Peace in

45:23

the midst of the frustration.

45:25

Every little thing you think

45:28

that you need. Every little

45:30

thing you think that you

45:32

need. Every little thing that's

45:35

just feeding your greed. Oh,

45:37

I bet that you'll be

45:39

fine without it.