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and conditions apply. This autumn,

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fall for moth stories as we travel

1:01

across the globe for our main stages.

1:04

We're excited to announce our fall lineup

1:06

of storytelling shows from New York City

1:08

to Iowa City, London, Nairobi, and so

1:11

many more. The moth will be performing

1:13

in a city near you featuring a

1:15

curation of true stories. The moth main

1:17

stage shows feature five tellers who share

1:20

beautiful, unbelievable, hilarious, and often powerful true

1:22

stories on a common theme. Each

1:24

one told reveals something new about our shared

1:27

connection. To buy your

1:29

tickets or find out more about

1:31

our calendar, visit themoth.org/mainstage. We

1:33

hope to see you soon. From

1:48

PRX, this is the Moth Radio Hour.

1:50

I'm Jennifer Hixson. I see you

1:52

is a phrase people use to indicate that

1:54

they understand what headspace you're in or what

1:56

you're presenting. It's an acknowledgement of who

1:58

you are. In this episode, we'll

2:01

hear stories about seeing and feeling seen. Our

2:04

first story is from Rae Wynn Grant, and

2:06

the people who really saw her were far

2:08

from home on the other side of the

2:10

globe. She told it for us at a

2:12

show at the Palace Theater in Los Angeles,

2:14

where we partner with public radio station KCRW.

2:17

Here's Rae Wynn Grant. I

2:22

was 19 years old and a

2:24

junior in college when I embarked

2:26

upon a life-changing study

2:29

abroad opportunity. At

2:31

that point in my life, pretty much all of

2:33

my family and friends were curious why I would

2:35

choose something like this, but in

2:37

retrospect, it all made sense. I

2:40

was searching for some things. For

2:43

one, I needed a connection

2:45

to nature. I was a

2:47

bona fide city girl and had essentially never

2:49

been outside. Not

2:51

only that, I was studying environmental

2:54

science and had only learned

2:56

about the outdoors through a

2:58

textbook or in my classroom. I

3:00

really needed my real experience in

3:03

nature. This

3:05

study abroad program would do just that.

3:08

It was a wildlife management program in

3:10

southern Kenya. We would be living in

3:12

the bush, studying wild animals and their

3:14

natural habitat, and basically camping

3:16

for a full semester. I

3:19

was pumped. The

3:22

second thing is that, like many African

3:24

Americans coming of age, I felt like

3:26

I needed a connection to the African

3:29

continent. I imagined that

3:31

my ancestry stemmed from West Africa

3:33

somewhere, but I figured spending time

3:35

in East Africa would give me

3:37

that ancestral connection I was looking

3:39

for. I couldn't wait. Before

3:42

I knew it, I was there. As soon

3:45

as my plane landed, I was struck

3:47

by two things. The first one was

3:49

kind of a bummer. As it turned

3:51

out, I was the only black student

3:53

in the program and the only black

3:55

student they had ever had in the

3:57

program. It

4:01

seemed like my identity was going to be more

4:03

of an issue in Africa than it was in

4:05

the US. And

4:09

the second thing was awesome. It was the wildlife. As

4:12

soon as our jeep left the airport in

4:14

the city of Nairobi and started driving into

4:16

the bush, I was

4:18

struck by the change in scenery and

4:20

I saw my first ever wild animal.

4:23

Now it wasn't one of those iconic

4:25

African species like an elephant or a

4:27

giraffe. It was

4:29

a marabou stork. You

4:32

don't read about those in textbooks.

4:34

But marabou storks are five or

4:36

six feet tall with a 12-foot

4:38

wingspan and they walk along

4:41

the landscape altogether like dinosaurs. I

4:44

saw them and was transfixed

4:47

and I knew that I'd made the right

4:49

choice in a study abroad program and also

4:51

in a career studying wildlife. The

4:53

other cool thing about the program was

4:56

that it was situated within a Maasai

4:58

community. These were people who

5:00

chose to live a traditional tribal lifestyle and

5:02

they really stuck to it. I was

5:05

thrilled because I had so many questions for

5:07

them and I figured that our

5:09

skin color could at least bridge that cultural

5:11

gap. We

5:14

were really, really different. So it took

5:16

a lot of time for me to

5:19

make those friendships, but eventually

5:21

I did. Some of

5:23

the Maasai warriors were my age and

5:25

apparently they had been waiting for a

5:27

black person to come on

5:30

this program. Most

5:33

of their questions for me were

5:35

about the black experience in America and

5:38

they had heard these rumors about

5:40

slavery, the way that black people

5:42

had ended up in this country.

5:46

Before I knew it, we were spending days

5:48

and days and weeks and weeks with me

5:50

giving them lessons on African American history. And

5:54

it was hard. It's a

5:56

violent, oppressive history and I was

5:59

telling tales of God. torture and bondage,

6:04

it got to be pretty uncomfortable. And after a

6:06

while, I decided, you know what? I think I'm

6:08

painting the wrong picture here of America. Because

6:11

slavery is over, and black

6:13

people have civil rights now. We're

6:15

free. And even look at

6:17

me. I'm a young black woman pursuing

6:20

higher education, traveling around the world. I

6:23

insisted to them that actually things

6:25

were great. One

6:29

day, one of the warriors that

6:31

I had grown to know named Saruni came rushing

6:33

to me in the field as I was collecting

6:36

data on zebras. He

6:39

had a look of terror in his eyes. And instead

6:41

of embracing me with the normal hug, he

6:44

shouted at me when he was still far away.

6:47

All of your people, they're dead

6:49

in the water. I

6:52

didn't understand what he was saying. And so I asked

6:54

again. And he seemed a little bit angry with me.

6:57

You told us that everything was OK,

6:59

but your people are dead. I

7:03

was terrified because I didn't know what

7:05

could be going on. We were completely

7:07

cut off. This was pre-internet, pre-cell phone

7:09

Kenya. And it was going to be

7:12

nearly impossible for me to understand this

7:14

news. I

7:16

told him that he must have misunderstood

7:18

something. Maybe there was some news lost

7:20

in translation, or he got word of

7:22

some kind of weird tabloid story that

7:25

was totally incorrect. I sent

7:27

him back to the village with the

7:29

message that this couldn't be true and

7:31

everything was fine. The

7:34

way we got our news from home

7:36

was through bimonthly mail runs to Nairobi.

7:39

And so a few weeks went by

7:41

until I could figure out what he

7:43

was talking about. As

7:45

my white classmates were opening their

7:48

care packages of candy and new

7:51

CDs to listen to, my

7:53

parents had sent me Time magazine.

7:57

It was September of 2005 in Hurricane Katrina. had

8:00

just hit. The cover

8:02

of the Time magazine showed a flooded city

8:05

and bodies floating in the water. Almost

8:09

2,000 people drowned

8:13

in that hurricane, almost all

8:15

of them the black residents of New Orleans.

8:20

I was shocked. I

8:22

was ashamed of my country, and

8:25

I was ashamed of myself for

8:27

misleading this entire group of people who

8:30

depended on me. Of course I had

8:32

come into some kind of racial consciousness,

8:35

but it took a national crisis like

8:37

that for me to understand the scale

8:39

and the magnitude of the impact of

8:41

racism. I took

8:43

the magazine into the village, and

8:46

I passed it around, doing my best

8:48

to translate the news. When I got

8:50

to Sarunier, I began to cry.

8:52

He held

8:54

me and said my

8:57

tears were exactly what was missing that day

8:59

in the field, that the

9:01

village had already cried for me and with

9:03

me, and that they were

9:05

here. The

9:08

next baby to be born in that

9:10

village, they would name Katrina after the

9:12

hurricane. Nine

9:16

years later, after a

9:18

number of wildlife experiences in East

9:20

Africa, I was headed

9:23

back to Maasai land, and

9:25

this time the roles were

9:27

reversed. I was an instructor

9:29

for a study abroad program

9:31

for undergrads. In about a

9:33

decade, I had become an expert in African

9:36

wildlife ecology, and this was my chance

9:38

to show my chops and to get

9:40

some skills in teaching. I couldn't wait.

9:43

I think

9:46

about my grandfathers a lot. I

9:49

have the privilege of having been

9:51

very close to them throughout my childhood

9:53

and even into adulthood. It's easy

9:56

for me to remember the day that my

9:58

paternal grandfather... George died.

10:02

January 26, 2014. It

10:06

was the same day that I was to leave for Kenya to

10:09

teach this course. And all

10:11

of a sudden, something that seemed so

10:13

important to me, like my

10:16

career coming full circle, was

10:18

the least important thing in the world. But

10:22

it was too late to cancel. And

10:24

after an emotional conversation with my family,

10:27

we concluded that I needn't

10:29

halt my life because

10:31

of a death. My

10:34

grandfather had known how much I loved

10:36

him. And so with

10:38

a heavy heart, I left for

10:40

Kenya, chaperoned 12

10:43

undergraduates through Amsterdam

10:45

successfully, and

10:48

began the course. All

10:51

was well when we landed. And I

10:53

had the wonderful opportunity to watch my

10:55

students experience the same thing that I

10:57

had. As we left the

11:00

airport in Nairobi and drove into the

11:02

bush, their jaws dropped and their eyes

11:04

widened at seeing their first African wildlife.

11:06

And yes, it was a marabou stork.

11:10

They're very prevalent. The

11:14

course went on without a hitch. And

11:17

one particularly exhausting day,

11:20

I found myself sitting with the chief

11:23

of the village, a Maasai

11:25

man who I had grown to know over the years.

11:28

And he noticed that I was really fatigued and

11:30

found a way to slip

11:32

in some personal questions. Where

11:37

is your mind? He asked.

11:41

I opened my mouth to answer. And

11:44

instead of words coming out, tears

11:47

just started flowing. I

11:49

admitted to him that I was

11:51

grieving the loss of my grandfather.

11:53

And I was feeling selfish that

11:55

I had chosen a professional opportunity

11:58

over the ability to. honor

12:00

his legacy. And

12:03

the chief looked really confused. Why can't you

12:05

honor him? He asked. And

12:07

I explained as the expert that in America,

12:09

we usually do this thing where all the

12:11

family and the friends get together when a

12:13

person dies and we view their body and

12:16

then we talk a lot about the life

12:18

they led and we say some prayers and

12:20

then we bury them in the ground and

12:22

walk away. He

12:27

nodded his head and said, yeah,

12:29

right. We do that in Kenya too.

12:34

And he insisted that my problem

12:36

was indeed one of selfishness. Not

12:40

that I had chosen the field course over

12:42

the funeral, but that I hadn't figured

12:45

out a way to honor my

12:47

grandfather independently. Let

12:49

us help you, he said. We'll

12:52

bury him here. The

12:55

next morning I awoke hours

12:58

before normal, long before my

13:00

students, and I walked

13:02

in the pre-dawn darkness to the road.

13:06

I met the chief, his

13:08

wives, and two elders

13:10

from the village. They

13:13

adorned me in traditional Masai red

13:15

cloth and wiped

13:18

red paint on my cheeks and

13:20

my forehead. I

13:23

walked with them in silence as they chanted

13:25

in the Ma language down

13:28

the road until we stopped at a

13:30

giant over 1,000

13:32

year old Baobab tree. One

13:35

of the elders got down and used his

13:37

hands to dig a small hole at the

13:39

base of the tree and I

13:42

was instructed to kneel. As

13:45

soon as my knees hit the ground, I started

13:47

crying again and they

13:49

tilted my head so that my tears fell

13:51

into the soil. In

13:54

English the chief said, You

13:57

exist because your grandfather existed.

14:00

Your tears are a part of him and we'll

14:03

bury them." I

14:07

finished crying after some time and they patted

14:09

the earth back over the hole. All together

14:12

everyone lifted me back onto my

14:15

feet and when I was

14:17

standing I felt taller and lighter

14:20

and I felt forgiven.

14:24

We turned and this time

14:27

we all walked in silence back up

14:29

the road. We

14:31

arrived back at camp as the sun was

14:33

coming up and I thanked the

14:35

chief, his wives, and the two

14:37

elders. I

14:39

left to teach my course for the day. And

14:43

before my time was over in Kenya, a baby

14:46

boy was born in the village and I

14:48

would learn that they named him George after

14:50

my grandfather. That

15:03

was Dr. Rae Wingrant. Rae

15:06

is a large carnivore ecologist. She

15:08

uses field biology, statistics, and mapping

15:10

to track how human activity influences

15:13

carnivores. I consider her

15:15

pretty fearless because Rae has studied black

15:17

bears in the western Great Basin, grizzly

15:19

bears in Montana, and African lions in

15:21

rural Kenya and Tanzania. Rae

15:25

has lots of selfies with animals.

15:27

Most people, me included, consider ferocious.

15:30

But she always looks calm and in control because

15:32

she is. To see some

15:34

of her pictures and learn more about her

15:36

work with the Museum of Natural History and

15:38

National Geographic, we'll link to her site at

15:40

themoth.org where you can also find a link

15:42

to share this story. When

15:53

we return a trip to and

16:00

the awkwardness of trying to make new friends as a

16:02

grown-up. The

16:16

Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic

16:18

Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts and

16:20

presented by PRX. The

16:23

Moth Radio Hour is produced by the American Public Radio Association. This

16:29

is the Moth Radio Hour from PRX. I'm

16:31

Jennifer Hixson. We're listening to

16:33

stories about being seen and being understood.

16:36

This next story comes from Angelica

16:38

Lindsay-Alley, who we met in Arizona,

16:40

where she now hosts the Phoenix

16:42

Moth Story Slam with support from

16:44

public radio station KJZZ. Angelica

16:47

told this story when she visited us in New

16:49

York City. Here's Angelica.

16:58

A little over six years ago, I got

17:01

an invitation to take a five-day

17:03

desert vacation, where I would sleep

17:05

in tents, stand in line with

17:08

thousands of people, and use squatty potties.

17:11

This wasn't Coachella. It wasn't Burning Man

17:13

either. And my first

17:15

response was, oh, hell no,

17:18

because I was eight months pregnant. And

17:21

I don't like people that much, especially not when

17:23

I'm eight months pregnant. And

17:25

the idea of living with thousands of strangers

17:27

in the desert didn't appeal to me. But

17:30

I said yes, because this was

17:32

the trip of a lifetime. This was

17:35

Hajj. Now Hajj is

17:37

one of the five pillars of Islam. It's

17:39

a pilgrimage that thousands, millions of people take

17:41

every year. They save up their entire lives

17:43

to go. It's kind of like if you

17:45

complete Hajj, you've completed 20% of your religion.

17:47

And in 2012, my husband and I were

17:50

two of those people. Now,

17:55

I had serious imposter syndrome going

17:57

into Hajj. spiritual

18:00

person but I kind of color outside the

18:02

lines a little bit. I

18:04

pray every day, five times a day,

18:07

sometimes more on a particularly rough day,

18:09

but I curse a lot. The

18:12

F-bomb is my favorite. I

18:15

like to listen to the Quran at home

18:17

with my children, but on the way to

18:19

work I listen to prints and trap music.

18:23

I wear the kimar every single day

18:25

but I have been known to go

18:27

out and sequin leggings and thigh-high boots.

18:30

I am a bit of a spiritual anomaly

18:32

and I wasn't sure that Hajj

18:34

was the right place for me. But

18:36

I had been dreaming about Hajj for a long

18:39

time. It all started in

18:41

Miss Atkins third grade social studies class.

18:43

We were doing a unit on

18:45

world religions and she showed us this picture

18:47

of what looked like thousands of people. It

18:49

was the most number of people I had

18:52

ever seen in one photograph. They were all

18:54

dressed in white and they were circling this

18:56

little black box. She told us

18:58

it was the Kaaba and this was Saudi Arabia

19:00

and these were Muslims and they were making Hajj.

19:03

And right then and there I made it my

19:05

mission. I said one day Miss Atkins I'm going

19:07

to make Hajj. She

19:10

said Angelica didn't you just say you

19:12

got baptized this year? You

19:15

have to be Muslim to make Hajj and I

19:17

figured my strict Christian mother and

19:19

father wouldn't let me attend so

19:21

I set my sights on more

19:23

attainable pursuits like winning the

19:25

third grade spelling bee and convincing Mario Lumpkins

19:28

that he was indeed in love with me.

19:32

But dreams of Hajj resurfaced when I was

19:34

a sophomore in college. I

19:36

had become disenchanted with the church that I

19:38

had grown up in and I

19:40

happened upon that same picture that Miss Atkins

19:42

had shown us in our third grade class.

19:45

And I set out to understand the

19:48

wonders of Islam. I was going to

19:50

prove this religion wrong and what

19:53

I found was a practicality, a

19:56

simplicity, and an elegance

19:58

that stole my heart. And

20:01

at the age of 23, four years after

20:03

I set off on my spiritual quest, I

20:06

found myself kneeling in front

20:08

of a Senegalese imam in

20:10

a northwest Detroit Cape Cod

20:12

style bungalow saying the Shahada,

20:14

the Muslim declaration of faith.

20:18

It was six years later that I met my

20:20

husband. Now unlike every other Muslim woman I knew

20:22

at the time, I was not trying to get

20:24

married. I wanted to travel

20:27

the world, see the sights, teach dance. I

20:29

didn't want to be tied down. But

20:31

my friend, Fardo said, Angelica, you need

20:33

to get married. Look, my husband has

20:35

a friend. He's really tall. He's cute.

20:38

He's smart. You'll love him.

20:40

So she set me up on a blind date at her house. I

20:43

showed up four hours late for the date. He

20:46

showed up five hours late. And

20:49

she was right. He was everything that she

20:51

said he was. He was smart. He was

20:53

funny. He was aging, handsome.

20:57

But I'm 5'11". And

20:59

he's 5'6". He

21:01

wasn't exactly tall. But

21:03

what Fardo's didn't know is that I loves

21:05

me a bite-sized man. It

21:11

was like a fun-sized Snickers, just

21:13

enough chocolate. And

21:17

we got married six weeks after we

21:19

met. Children

21:22

soon followed. And he

21:24

helped me make good on my single woman's

21:26

promise to myself when he came home one

21:28

day and said, babe, I got a job

21:30

teaching English in Saudi Arabia. We're moving to

21:32

Jeddah. Now Jeddah is

21:34

the jewel of the Red Sea. It's kind of like

21:36

a Muslim New York City. And

21:39

it's only 45 minutes away from Mecca.

21:41

My dream of Hajj was now closer

21:43

than ever. But

21:45

there was the imposter syndrome again. You

21:48

see, I'm the only Muslim in my family.

21:50

And on Hajj, the men and the women

21:52

are in separate tents. So I couldn't be

21:54

with my husband. I would be with

21:56

dozens of strange Muslim women. And I was afraid

21:58

that I was going to make it. mess up

22:00

their Hajj experience. Because

22:02

I'm kind of wayward. Very

22:05

irreverent, almost always inappropriate.

22:09

Like the first time I went to a

22:11

Western-style grocery store in Jeddah, I was super

22:13

excited. It wasn't like the normal farmer's market

22:15

that we were going to. This place had

22:17

Cheerios. They had Pepsi. They had Cheez-Its. And

22:19

it was all in Arabic. It was so

22:21

cool. I was dressed

22:23

in a black abaya, the long flowing gown.

22:25

I had a black face veil over my

22:27

face. I was really trying to blend in.

22:30

But the part that I couldn't turn off was

22:33

my internal jukebox. See, it's

22:35

a little raunchy. And it plays music in my

22:37

head at any time.

22:39

And sometimes the music that's selected is almost

22:42

always inappropriate. And it

22:44

was really hot that day. So I'm

22:46

walking with my stroller. And I'm going

22:49

through the store, looking at all

22:51

the sights. And it's

22:53

getting hot in here. So take

22:55

off all your clothes. I

22:57

am getting so hot. I want to take

23:00

my clothes off and get a little bit

23:02

of uh-uh. I

23:05

mean, my head is back. My eyes are

23:07

closed. And by the time I get to

23:09

the second uh-uh, I open my eyes. And

23:12

every other person in the store is looking

23:14

at me. And they're

23:16

all men, because men do

23:18

the majority of the shopping in Saudi

23:20

Arabia. And I was afraid

23:22

that just like I ruined their shopping

23:24

experience, I was going to ruin Hajj

23:27

for some poor, unknowing woman. But

23:29

when we got to the tents, I

23:31

realized that it really wasn't a tent.

23:34

It was these multi-roomed, carpeted, air conditioned

23:36

deals. And the women inside

23:38

were a different mix than I had

23:40

expected. There was the

23:42

blond-haired, blue-eyed Mexican woman who had brought

23:44

her nursing baby. And she would whip

23:46

her boob out to feed him in

23:48

front of all of the other women.

23:50

And they were all a gas. And

23:52

I was secretly laughing. There

23:55

was the British Algerian woman who was

23:57

very prim and proper. I

23:59

nicknamed her the Blackberry. the Muslim Hyacinth Bouquet.

24:03

There was the Irish woman with

24:05

pink and blue cornrows and shaved

24:07

sides. She was a white girl, but she

24:09

had a big booty and she taught us all how to twerk.

24:14

There was the Somali contingent who

24:16

wore triple black veils and gloves

24:18

and bloomers and socks, but sat

24:21

in circles and told ridiculously dirty

24:23

jokes. They were nothing

24:25

like what I imagined them to be, but I

24:27

wondered what they think I was cool. Were they

24:29

cool? How is this five days

24:31

going to go? The

24:34

day after we got to Hajj is

24:36

the day of Arafat. Now the day

24:39

of Arafat is the most important religious

24:41

ritual in Hajj. You spend the entire

24:43

day praying, engaging these fervent acts of

24:45

worship. But I had a secret.

24:48

See, I knew just enough Arabic to make

24:50

my five daily prayers, but I didn't have

24:53

any extra credit prayers in my pocket. I

24:56

knew one du'a, one short

24:58

prayer, and I sat in

25:00

the corner by myself just reciting it over

25:02

and over and over again. The

25:05

teacher showed up like they do every time

25:07

we have Hajj, and she said, OK, ladies,

25:09

I'm going to teach you the very prayer

25:11

that the Prophet Muhammad would make on this

25:13

day. This is the most important prayer that

25:15

you can make. So I got out my

25:17

notebook and my pen. I was ready. No

25:19

more kindergarten for me. I'm ready to move

25:22

up to high school Arabic. And

25:24

as she started talking, she

25:27

began reciting the exact same prayer that

25:29

I had been saying all day. I

25:32

was feeling like maybe I wasn't an imposter after

25:34

all. And the women in

25:36

the group, they were cool. They

25:39

were kind of growing on me, especially when

25:41

we went out to make our rounds. The

25:43

men and the women are separated sometimes, even when

25:45

we're in the crowds. And Muslim

25:48

Hayasith, she was like a linebacker in

25:50

the crowds. She told all of the

25:52

women, protect the belly. When

25:55

a man tried to push me out of my seat

25:57

on the train, she clotheslined him. It

25:59

was a beautiful. thing to see. So

26:03

on the third day of Hajj when

26:05

we all sat down to have breakfast,

26:08

I decided to take out a jar of

26:10

jam. Now on Hajj we eat traditional Saudi

26:12

food. We have a breakfast of

26:15

full which is fava beans mixed with olive

26:17

oil and spices. It's really delicious. And they

26:19

serve it with a flat bread call to

26:22

me's. Now normally this would be a great

26:24

breakfast but there were squatty potties and

26:27

I was pregnant and it was beans

26:29

and bread. It wasn't exactly

26:31

a good mix for my digestive

26:33

system. So I took out

26:35

my jar of bone maman all fruit preserves and

26:37

tried to slide a little bit on

26:39

my bread so that nobody would see. I told you I

26:42

don't like people that much. But

26:44

the Moroccan woman next to me said, Sister Angelica,

26:46

can I have a scoop? I

26:49

figured this is Hajj so I let her have some. And

26:52

just as I feared, the woman next to her

26:54

asked for some and the woman next

26:56

to her and the woman next to her

26:58

and I watched my jar of jam make

27:00

its way around a circle of three dozen

27:02

women. But something

27:05

interesting happened. As each

27:07

woman took a scoop of jam,

27:09

she shared her mother or her

27:11

grandmother's recipe. For the

27:13

women who had come from cultures that they

27:16

didn't eat jam for breakfast, they said, hmm

27:18

dessert for breakfast? I can get down with

27:20

that. And just like

27:22

I feared, by the time the jar

27:24

made its way back around to me, it

27:27

was completely empty. But my

27:29

heart was full. On

27:32

the last day of Hajj,

27:34

we make a rite called

27:36

Tawaf Al-Wada, the farewell Tawaf.

27:39

It's seven circumnambulations around that black

27:41

box that I had seen in

27:43

Ms. Atkins third grade class. By

27:45

this time, pregnancy had gotten the best

27:47

of me. My feet were swollen. My

27:49

head was achy. I was dehydrated. And

27:52

as I walked into the crowd, the

27:54

sheer number of people lifted me up.

27:56

I couldn't even feel my feet on

27:58

the ground. When I

28:00

did the worst possible thing you can do when

28:02

you're in a crowd, I

28:04

looked around at all of the

28:06

people and I began to

28:09

hyperventilate. My blonde-haired,

28:11

blue-eyed, Mexican, hippie mama

28:13

friend said, Angelica, close

28:16

your eyes and just breathe. As

28:19

I did, I could feel a wash of

28:21

cool air flow over me. It

28:23

was just enough for me to finish making

28:25

those seven rounds. I

28:27

had to walk back to the bus. It was about 2.5 kilometers.

28:31

I was dragging my pregnant belly. I had

28:33

sent my husband ahead. I was certain that the

28:36

bus had left me and had already gone

28:38

back to Jeddah. But when I got

28:40

on the bus, I saw that

28:42

Hyacinth was sitting there, saving a

28:44

seat for me, just like she had done on the train.

28:48

We went back home and picked up

28:50

our children and I spent the next

28:52

few days eating fried chicken, ice cream,

28:55

cookies, all of the things that

28:57

a pregnant woman craves when she's on Hajj. And

29:00

I reflected. I had

29:02

gone to Hajj as a wayward, incomplete

29:04

Muslim. And I came back

29:06

from Hajj, a wayward,

29:09

incomplete Muslim. Because

29:12

Hajj is not about being in competition

29:14

with the millions of other people who

29:16

are there. Hajj was about refining and

29:18

becoming a more complete version of myself.

29:21

It made me stop and think about the

29:23

stereotypes that I had foisted upon my Hajj

29:25

sisters in the tent, the same

29:27

type of stereotypes that I get upset when people

29:30

lob at me. My

29:32

daughter was born six weeks later, a

29:35

miraculous Saudi home birth. That's a story

29:37

for another time. And

29:39

now, when she doesn't want to pray, she

29:41

gets to tease her brothers and sisters and

29:43

say, well, I've already made 20% of

29:46

my religion because I did Hajj in Mommy's belly.

29:50

And when she turned six this December,

29:53

I didn't even get

29:55

a chance to post her picture on Facebook.

29:58

Because when I opened my Facebook page, one

30:00

of my hodge sisters had already put her

30:02

up on the page. We're

30:04

all still very close. We

30:06

trade stories, recipes, pictures

30:09

of our babies. Those ladies

30:11

from the tent, they're no

30:13

longer strangers. They're my sisters.

30:18

APPLAUSE That

30:24

was Angelica Lindsay-Alley, to see a picture

30:26

of Angelica and her daughter Kenny, the

30:29

one she was carrying at Hodge. Visit

30:31

themoth.org. Angelica is originally

30:33

from Detroit and is a certified sexual

30:35

health educator. She's part of a global

30:37

movement of women in 86 countries. She

30:41

goes by the name The Village Anti

30:43

and her lessons are no nonsense, straightforward,

30:45

and yet so, so fun. This

31:02

next story is another take on our theme, I

31:04

See You. This is a bit more literal.

31:07

It comes from our slam in Chicago

31:09

where we partner with public radio station

31:11

WBEZ. Here's Grace

31:13

Topinka. You

31:18

know those kids in elementary school that talk so much

31:20

that the teacher had to move them around the classroom?

31:23

Well, I was the quiet kid that those kids

31:25

got sat next to. And

31:28

everybody knew it. I

31:31

was always so shy and

31:33

every time I tried something new I was like, I'm going

31:35

to be outgoing I'm going to be popular I'm going to

31:37

make all these friends high school,

31:39

camp, middle school, college and it

31:41

never happened. Not that

31:43

I never made friends it just took me a

31:46

really long time to warm up to people. After

31:48

college I was kind of nervous because they say

31:50

it's harder to make friends as an adult and

31:52

I was like, well, I wasn't even good at

31:54

it before. But

31:59

it's true. when you don't have school,

32:01

proximity, it takes a lot more effort

32:03

to spend time with someone and get to know

32:05

someone as an adult. So

32:08

I started going to therapy and one

32:11

of the things that I want to

32:13

work on was my anxiety around social

32:15

situations and my therapist gave

32:18

me a assignment that week and was

32:20

like you need to go

32:22

out of your comfort zone and ask people what they're

32:24

doing on the weekend and take like any hint of

32:26

an invitation that you get you need to jump on

32:28

it. So

32:33

there was a girl at work named Chelsea

32:35

and I had my eye on her and

32:40

I feel like we shared a lot of similar interests

32:42

like maybe she would like to hang out with me

32:45

and it really felt like I was trying to date

32:47

her except we weren't trying to see each other naked

32:49

but I would find excuses to like send her DM

32:51

on Instagram and talk to her and then one day

32:54

she mentioned that she had found this group on for

32:56

this Korean spa and I was

32:58

like oh I'd totally be down to do

33:00

that like let's go. So

33:06

on the day of I was really nervous because

33:08

I was like okay we're this first time hanging

33:10

out outside of work and it made

33:12

me extremely nervous and that's why I was in therapy and

33:16

I was like I need to put in together a

33:18

cute outfit so I wore this bathing suit and these

33:21

wide leg pants and a little sweater like that spa

33:23

I do this all the time vibe is what I

33:25

was trying to give. So

33:31

we met up and we got to the spa and

33:33

we check into the women's locker room and

33:35

I can't help but notice there are signs

33:37

everywhere that say no bathing suits in the

33:39

hot tubs. You have

33:41

to be completely naked take a shower in front

33:44

of everyone and then get into the hot tub

33:46

area. Now

33:48

I had figured that some people would be

33:50

nude at this Korean spa because it's common

33:52

in Korean spa and also in spas in

33:54

countries all over the world that

33:57

don't sexualize everything and have these terrible

33:59

views. views on like the naked female body but I didn't grow

34:01

up in one of those countries. So

34:10

I ignorantly thought that maybe you had the option to

34:12

wear a bathing suit but you did not. So

34:15

we had come this far and the like hot

34:17

tub area looked so cool and inviting I was

34:19

like okay I guess we have to go. So

34:22

we got naked and took

34:24

a shower in front of everyone and

34:27

got into the hot tub. And

34:29

then we saw someone in the locker room and it

34:32

was our boss's wife. I

34:36

was like how many colleagues are going to see me

34:38

naked today? Like

34:41

I'm already nervous this is our first time hanging out

34:44

and we've already done way more than I

34:47

thought we were going to do. And

34:50

she was nervous too she was like well that would be really

34:52

weird if she comes in here like do we acknowledge her and

34:54

I was like I'm not acknowledging her she barely knows me but

34:57

she ended up skipping out the hot tub

34:59

part and going to the fully clothed sauna

35:01

area or steam room area which

35:04

was good because it suddenly made Chelsea and

35:06

I's situation feel a lot less awkward like

35:08

could be way worse. And

35:12

we ended up getting like pretty comfortable and

35:14

having a great time and as I looked

35:16

around this room of naked women in a

35:18

non creepy way I saw

35:21

friends, sisters, mothers, daughters

35:24

and I realized how important it was for

35:26

me to get out of my comfort zone

35:28

because friendship especially female friendship is so important.

35:32

And ever since then Chelsea and

35:35

I have become great friends we've gone back

35:37

to the spa multiple times and

35:41

we even started a podcast together which I

35:43

consider to be the pinnacle of millennial friendship.

35:51

So I don't think my therapist would officially

35:53

say getting naked is a great way to

35:56

break the ice with a new friend but

35:59

in this case it worked. Thank you. That

36:05

was Grace Tukenka live in Chicago. Grace

36:08

is still going to the spa and

36:10

bringing more friends because she said she's

36:12

totally over the awkwardness. Her

36:14

weekly podcast with Chelsea, The Friend in Her

36:17

Story, is called Two Girls One Crossword and

36:19

it features trivia for people who are bad

36:21

at trivia. In

36:24

an ironic twist, Grace and Chelsea are

36:26

known at work for their clothing because

36:28

they often coordinate their holiday party outfits.

36:30

Visit themoths.org to see one of their

36:33

recent ensembles. Do

36:36

you have a story about letting your guard down

36:39

and making friends in an unconventional place like

36:41

a hot tub or against all odds? We'd love

36:43

to hear it. You can pitch us your story

36:45

by recording it right on our site or call

36:48

877-799-MOTH. That's 877-799-6684. The best

36:56

pitches are developed for moth shows all around the

36:58

world. Can

37:22

we return trying not to be seen as

37:24

the ugly American while abroad and seeing your

37:52

tunnel? presented

38:00

by the Public Radio Exchange,

38:02

prx.org. You're

38:08

listening to the Moth Radio Hour from PRX.

38:11

I'm Jennifer Hixson. This hour is called I

38:13

See You, and the next story is about

38:15

not seeing, at first. It

38:18

comes from a Moth Story slam in Detroit

38:20

where we partner with public radio station WDET.

38:23

Zakia Minafi was celebrating her 27th birthday when

38:26

she put her name in the hat. The

38:28

fate smiled upon her and her name was pulled, and this

38:30

is the story she told. Here's

38:33

Zakia. So,

38:38

it was May of 2015. I

38:40

had just graduated college, and I

38:42

was taking my second international trip.

38:45

All I knew was I was determined

38:47

not to be that American on the

38:49

trip. You know, the one that speaks

38:51

really loud English, just constantly over and

38:53

over again until you hope somebody understands

38:55

you. I just hope everyone thought I

38:57

was Canadian. I

39:00

was going to visit my sister in

39:02

Spain with my mom. We were excited.

39:04

They're both severely type A, so the

39:06

whole thing was beautifully planned and itinerary,

39:09

and I just had to go along

39:11

for the ride. First week,

39:13

I was doing wonderfully. I was muddling

39:15

my way through Spanish, traipsing

39:18

through tons of cities, and

39:20

next up on our trip was Granada.

39:23

We were going to spend a day

39:26

at the Alhambra, which is

39:28

this fortress palace, Moorish, Roman

39:30

Catholic, just amalgamation of things

39:33

in my history degree, was

39:35

just absolutely swooning at the

39:37

possibility of being there. And

39:41

I didn't want to be that

39:43

tourist, right? So, we weren't going

39:45

to take our tour guide. We

39:48

were just going to go and explore the space,

39:50

but like kind of follow a tour. Do

39:52

you know what I mean? So that you're not like with the tour, but you're

39:54

with the tour. Because

39:56

we didn't want to be with the group of

39:59

Americans that were being there. the group of Americans

40:01

like tall white socks and the short cargos and

40:03

the short sleeve shirt and the wide brim hat

40:05

and the big sunglasses and the like white orthopedic

40:08

sneakers to bring it all home. But

40:12

we were behind this group and we kept trying

40:15

to like kind of cut in front of them

40:17

to like get a really good view of the

40:19

good stuff but like still hear a little bit

40:21

of the tour guide in the back. We

40:24

just kept getting stuck and there

40:26

was this just fan favorite in

40:28

the group. This older gentleman

40:31

who was all the stereotypes wrapped and run. He

40:33

had the really like really big glasses. I had

40:36

never seen anything like that before. And

40:39

every stop it was oh wow.

40:46

Ooh, ah, at every

40:49

single stop. And the first time I grinned because

40:51

it just made me happy. It was like contagious.

40:54

And the second time, the third time,

40:56

I had an indulgent smile because I

40:58

was willing to play along. And by

41:00

the sixth time my smile

41:02

had slipped and my eyes were rolling into the

41:04

back of my head and my sister and I

41:07

were having one of those silent conversations that you

41:09

can only have with someone that's like firmly inside

41:11

your squad. You know what I mean? Where you're

41:13

just like what is he doing and why won't

41:15

he stop? And we got

41:17

to the like one of

41:19

the most famous spots in

41:22

the Alhambra. It's this gorgeous

41:24

patio with this big open

41:26

fountain space and he did

41:30

it again. Ooh,

41:32

ah. And

41:35

before I could get too frustrated, this

41:37

very good natured woman who is better

41:39

than I, I must admit, leaned over

41:41

to the woman who was walking with

41:43

him and said wow he's really

41:46

enjoying it. And I

41:49

was like you bet he is.

41:51

He's killing it for me. And

41:54

the woman that was with him said

41:56

yeah, he just had

41:58

corrective eye surgery. It's all really new

42:00

for him. Oh. There

42:04

goes all the wind out of

42:06

my bitch sails. Like, oh my.

42:08

What? I'm

42:12

so horrible. Like, how did I not?

42:14

Look like a big glass. There's like

42:16

a really big glass. How was I

42:19

not paying attention to that? And

42:21

so, oh my gosh. I leaned into my

42:24

sister. She kind of leaned

42:26

into me in that just like moment of

42:28

wonder of like, oh my gosh. The

42:30

rest of the trip was just, we were like, ooh.

42:33

Ah. Right?

42:37

Because now it's amazing. It's even more amazing

42:39

because it was cool to see it to

42:41

begin with, like my history degree, because it

42:44

wasn't gonna pay me. It was paying off

42:46

here. And now I get to

42:48

see it with these amazing new eyes of somebody

42:50

that was really actually like

42:52

looking and seeing it for something

42:54

new and for something special. So

42:57

at the end of that tour, when I

42:59

was alone and sitting on the steps in

43:01

the palace of Charles V, which

43:04

was built 500 years ago with this

43:06

big open roof and looking at the

43:08

stars and getting kind of misty eyed,

43:12

I'll be damned if I didn't say, oh wow. That

43:17

was Zakia Menefee. She's

43:21

a program manager in Detroit but loves travel,

43:23

live music, books, black garlic ice cream, and

43:27

her cat Kevin. To see a

43:29

picture of Zakia, her sister, and her mom on

43:32

the trip in Spain, visit themoth.org where you

43:34

can also find a link to share this story. She

43:36

hopes this story reminds everyone to keep their sense of

43:39

wonder. Let your oohs and ahs flow,

43:41

but also socks and sandals, that's

43:43

a no. Our

43:51

final story is from Josh Holland. He

43:53

was visiting from Maine when he told this at a story

43:55

slam in New York. York

44:00

City where we partner with

44:02

public radio station WNYC. Here's

44:04

Josh Holland. So

44:10

I am in a pickup truck and I get out and

44:13

I look in the river mirror because

44:15

I want to see my face as

44:18

my birth mother will see it for the first time in 39 years. And

44:20

I look tired

44:24

and I look like I've been thinking about this

44:26

moment a little too long. And

44:29

it's Alki Beach in West Seattle. I don't know

44:32

if anyone knows Seattle but you're

44:34

over on the West and then there's Seattle over here. And

44:36

so there's a beach there and it's December. So

44:39

it's empty. I turn around from

44:41

the pickup and I see there's just an

44:43

empty beach and there's a small Statue of

44:45

Liberty statue to my left

44:48

many hundreds of yards away. I

44:50

can see one figure. She's got a leather jacket,

44:52

red hair, I can

44:55

see at a distance, black jeans. I

44:58

know it's her. I start walking

45:01

towards her and it's like one

45:03

of those people movers in the

45:06

airports. You're just suddenly already over there and she's standing

45:08

in front of me. And she

45:11

says, oh, here you are. And I give her a big

45:14

hug. She's like, oh, here you go.

45:21

And she's so strong. And

45:24

I look, I step back and I see for the first

45:26

time in my life except for the pictures she sent me,

45:28

someone who looks like me. First

45:30

time ever. And I don't know if anybody

45:33

else has adopted in the room but that's

45:35

a pretty intense moment. And

45:40

then as I'm hugging her, I have this, the

45:42

only time I've ever had this thought, I have

45:44

this physical response to her physical

45:47

self. I'm from Eastern Washington.

45:49

I had identified with it really strongly, but I'm from her.

45:51

And I step back and I see

45:55

her. We'd

46:00

exchange letters and emails and so on But

46:03

this is the first time we're talking and she's on my

46:05

left and we're walking down the beach And

46:08

she is walking and just looking at me

46:10

and she says well tell me everything. She's

46:13

not joking Then

46:16

it's why I start talk talking about this You know I got a

46:18

bunch of great friends And you know what I'm doing with my life

46:20

and so on and so forth and she presses

46:22

me the questions and questions and I'm walking She's right

46:24

here and every time I look she's just

46:27

looking at me And I don't know if anybody knows

46:29

teachers or principals or cops But

46:32

there's this look that people who are good at

46:34

this do where they're watching everything you do And

46:38

she's she's doing it the whole time she wants to

46:40

know about about everything every even stuff I've already said

46:42

in the letter. She's asking about we walked down the

46:44

beach It's an empty beach very

46:47

beautiful water on the left side houses on the

46:49

right and I

46:52

don't know if anyone's ever been subjected to that sort

46:54

of gaze over time, but

46:56

it's exhausting the

46:59

minute Careful noticing this

47:01

is how my genetic son moves his hand when

47:03

he's telling a story. This is how

47:05

my genetic son Moves

47:07

his feet when he's walking on the beach This

47:09

is how my genetic son fixes his coat This is how

47:11

my genetic son moves his head away when he's nervous about

47:13

how I'm looking at the side of his face We

47:17

go down the beach finally,

47:20

I'm able to redirect the conversation a little bit to her and

47:23

Ask about you know what it's like being a critical care

47:25

nurse and what was you know what it's tell

47:28

me about owning horses Tell

47:30

me about your sister. She has four brothers one

47:33

and as soon as it gets to her She redirects to me

47:35

and more more more go to the

47:37

bar. Oh, I find it very difficult

47:39

to face her. I Can't

47:42

really bring myself to a square off Because

47:45

it's so intense Because

47:47

I'm sensing what it's like as far as

47:49

a son can or any adopted kid can

47:52

What it's like to finally have that baby back in

47:55

front of you? So

47:59

we go down the beach beach, we

48:02

get to a bar and we have to sit

48:04

across from someone in restaurants. That's the

48:06

rules. And

48:09

so I find myself shifting to the waiter so

48:12

I can deflect because

48:14

it's so intense. This

48:18

is how my son orders an IPA. This

48:21

is how my son orders the second IPA. And

48:25

so on. We go

48:27

back the other way and it's getting

48:29

dark. And it's

48:32

still happening, the intensity. I'm

48:34

really tired. We

48:37

get almost to the Statue of Liberty. Almost

48:40

there. And she's not next

48:42

to me all of a sudden. And I turn around and

48:46

she's back a bit. And I

48:48

go back and I say, what's up? She's like, are

48:52

you mad at me? And

48:54

I said, no. Why would I be

48:56

mad at you? She said, forgiving you up. And

49:00

I was like, no. And

49:02

then I realized what this was all about. And

49:06

I squared off with her shoulder to shoulder in the

49:08

fading dark on Alki Beach. And I said, Maureen, my

49:13

life is full of beauty. I

49:15

have so many friends. Loving

49:19

family. Stuff

49:22

wasn't always great with my folks. But

49:24

we worked it out like every family does. And

49:27

I loved them very much. Got two sisters. And

49:29

my whole life, I've

49:32

chased my dreams. So

49:34

no, I'm not mad at you. What

49:38

you did as a 19-year-old girl in Eastern Washington was

49:40

one of the bravest things I even know about. And

49:43

I don't know if you guys have had that experience

49:46

where you don't know something isn't in place until

49:48

it falls into place. But

49:51

I saw it hit her and then hit me. Thank

49:55

you very much. That

50:04

was Josh Holland. He grew up skiing,

50:06

fishing and camping in eastern Washington State

50:08

and was very active in the Boy

50:10

Scouts. And after a good

50:12

stint as a university academic, Josh now

50:15

runs a sleep away summer camp in

50:17

Maine called Camp Cabasi for boys. Josh

50:19

sees Maureen whenever he comes through Seattle,

50:22

including one Christmas where he learned that

50:24

Maureen's entire family gets matching flannel pajamas

50:26

each year, just like his family does.

50:33

To see a picture of Josh and Maureen and

50:35

one of Josh and his mom and one of

50:37

them together with his nephew, you can visit themoth.org.

50:46

That's it for this episode of The Moth Radio Hour.

50:48

We hope you'll join us next time. And that's the

50:50

story from The Moth. Your

51:11

host this hour was Jennifer Hickson, who

51:14

also directed the stories and the show.

51:17

The rest of the Moth's directorial

51:19

staff includes Katherine Burns, Sarah Haberman,

51:21

Sarah Austin Janess and Meg Bowles,

51:23

production support from Emily Couch. These

51:26

stories are true, as remembered and affirmed by

51:28

the storytellers. Our theme music is

51:30

by The Drift. Other music

51:32

in this hour from Nellie,

51:34

Percussions, Regina Carter, Blue Dot

51:37

Sessions, Strunes and Fara, and

51:39

Ben Harper. You can find

51:41

links to all the music we use at our website.

51:44

The Moth Radio Hour is produced

51:46

by me, Jay Allison, with Vicki

51:48

Merrick at Atlantic Public Media in

51:50

Woods Hole, Massachusetts. This hour

51:52

was produced with funds from the National Endowment

51:54

for the Arts. The Moth Radio

51:57

Hour is presented by PRX for more about

51:59

our podcast. For information on

52:01

pitching us your own story and everything

52:03

else go to our website the moth

52:05

org You

52:32

You