0:00

Hey, everyone. This is the last episode

0:02

I will be putting out this year. And I got to tell

0:04

you, it was so fun to listen

0:07

to all of your voice notes and your questions

0:09

and just to get to look back on

0:11

past episodes. While I

0:14

made this episode, I reconnected with some people

0:16

from previous seasons who I had interviewed

0:18

before. I also spoke with some

0:21

brand new people and I

0:23

got so many excellent voice notes

0:25

from you. There's one from a listener

0:27

that I just can't stop thinking about. It

0:29

is an ongoing mystery that's happening to

0:31

her in her life. And I really hope that someone

0:34

listening can help solve it. It

0:36

is so weird. That's

0:38

later in the episode. But first, I have so

0:41

many updates for you. You

0:43

are listening

0:47

to The Opportunist.

0:53

This is our end of year wrap up episode

0:55

for 2023. I'm Hannah Smith.

1:08

Let's just kick it off with a listener question.

1:11

Hello, Miss Hannah. I am so

1:14

thrilled to hear that you are doing

1:16

a follow up episode at the end of this year.

1:18

The Opportunist is one of

1:20

my favorite podcasts. I love

1:22

getting notifications that there's a new episode out.

1:26

So I guess my question for you in your follow

1:30

up episode is where are they now?

1:32

Are there Sherri Shriners followers

1:35

that have reached out to you?

1:37

Have you heard anything from Kim

1:39

Smith or any of her family

1:41

members? So

1:44

thanks for all you do. Can't wait to listen. Okay,

1:47

updates. Well, let's start with Sherri

1:49

Shriners since that was the first season.

1:52

After that season came out, there were

1:54

some changes. I had been

1:56

checking this Facebook group quite often.

1:58

I was keeping track of it.

1:59

A lot of her followers were posting

2:02

there. After the podcast came

2:04

out, they quickly changed that Facebook

2:07

group to private and I haven't

2:09

been able to get inside of it. That

2:11

really cut my access off to getting

2:13

updates on the group. Also

2:16

a lot of her show archive

2:18

has been taken off the internet. There's

2:20

still some stuff on YouTube if you're interested in listening

2:23

to her old radio shows, but most

2:25

of it has been taken down. I don't know if that was

2:27

in response to the podcast or not. Sherry

2:31

passed away in 2018 and someone

2:33

had still been paying for all of

2:35

those websites, domains and keeping up

2:37

the cost of hosting. It's

2:39

possible that they just didn't want to pay for that

2:41

anymore. One

2:44

update I guess I can tell you, my best guess

2:46

as to what is going on in the group

2:48

right now is my communication

2:51

with someone who all ... Her name is

2:53

Janet. I'm not going to say her last name. I

2:55

think I mentioned her maybe in the epilogue of season

2:58

one. Essentially I connected

3:00

with her on Facebook through some

3:03

of these

3:04

groups that I was watching. She

3:07

just was very responsive to me. We messaged

3:10

quite often. She's

3:12

an elderly woman who spends

3:14

a lot of her time online

3:17

warning people about the end

3:19

of the world. I tried to get a phone

3:21

call with her back when I was producing that season.

3:24

She wouldn't do it because she said that she had had a stroke

3:26

and she wasn't confident

3:29

in her speaking voice anymore. Ultimately,

3:32

I guess through my interactions with her

3:34

on Facebook, I started to feel a little bit sad

3:36

and I tried to ask her about

3:39

her personal life. Was she okay? Did she have family?

3:42

She was really resistant to talking about any of that.

3:44

I guess I ended up coming

3:46

around to feeling like this

3:49

is giving her purpose. She sees it

3:51

as her job and her duty to

3:55

read all of this stuff online.

3:57

I think a lot of it she's getting from...

4:00

Sari Shriner's group

4:02

and then messaged it out to different people in her

4:04

life. And

4:06

I became one of those people because I think

4:08

she saw me as a lost soul and so she

4:10

was constantly messaging

4:12

me. And I just had to stop responding.

4:17

But it kind of, she didn't

4:19

message me that much in 2022,

4:21

maybe a few times, but she has

4:23

still messaged me like not that long ago. I

4:25

got a message from her in April

4:27

of 2023. She says,

4:30

do not get the mark of the beast, in

4:32

parentheses, antichrist, and do not

4:34

worship his image. Read Revelation

4:37

chapter 13 and 14. And

4:40

I just wrote in response, hi Janet,

4:42

how are you?

4:43

And she said, so, so.

4:46

I said, what's been going on? And

4:48

then she wrote back, Trump's wall

4:50

will not be completed by him. Secrets

4:53

have been revealed that Trump will be killed before

4:55

the border wall is completed. It will be completed

4:57

to keep the Americans from

4:59

escaping America when America is destroyed

5:02

by fire, et cetera, through God's judgment

5:04

against her. I thought it was interesting that

5:06

America is a her in this scenario.

5:10

She goes on to say, the wall

5:12

will be built and finished by the antichrist

5:15

who is not Trump, but the antichrist

5:17

will use the dead Trump's clone to fool

5:19

you into thinking that Trump is doing it. This

5:22

is my best guess as to what

5:24

the Oregon warriors are talking about

5:27

lately. And I do think that there's

5:29

part of this message that is really interesting

5:32

because

5:32

the way that

5:35

they're

5:35

talking about Trump particularly

5:37

has really changed because in this

5:40

message, she's saying that Trump

5:42

is not the antichrist, but basically

5:43

Trump will be killed and replaced

5:46

with the antichrist. The antichrist

5:48

is always going to be a huge

5:50

topic of conversation in these groups. It's

5:52

just like the story that keeps

5:54

giving the antichrist, you know?

5:57

But now the antichrist will sneak.

5:59

inside Trump's body. And part

6:02

of the message that she's saying here is don't

6:04

vote for Trump.

6:05

But she also says don't vote for anyone

6:08

else. And that's

6:10

a really different message than

6:13

the Oregon warriors were saying about Trump

6:16

two years ago. I talked

6:18

a little bit about this in the last episode of

6:21

season one, but Sherri

6:23

Shiner had originally been very against Trump,

6:25

but not just Trump, just like really any politicians.

6:29

Her ideology was always sort

6:32

of anti-political. And then I think

6:34

at one point it became clear to her that there was so

6:36

much support for Trump in her

6:39

online spaces and her followers that she

6:42

felt like she would lose followers if she didn't support

6:44

Trump. So then she got really on board with

6:46

him. But it's interesting

6:49

seeing something like this message

6:52

coming from an old Sherri Shiner supporter

6:54

who I assume is still plugged into Sherri Shiner,

6:58

but it's not like the ex Sherri Shiner groups. So it seems like

7:01

maybe the tide has turned in the support

7:03

for Trump.

7:04

I think you also asked about Kimberly Smith.

7:06

You know, it's interesting. I typically

7:09

will get people reaching out to me after a season

7:11

who are connected to the story in some way or

7:14

another. I'll get emails of

7:16

someone that says that was my neighbor. That's so wild,

7:18

I never knew that story. This happened

7:21

to me a lot after the Chris Bathum

7:23

season, which kind of makes sense because

7:25

there were so many people that were

7:27

affected by what happened at

7:29

CRLA and CRCO, which was the

7:31

Colorado branch, which I didn't really get a lot

7:34

into in the season. So there were just

7:36

so many people, I couldn't speak to all of them, but

7:39

I did have people reaching out saying that

7:41

their friend or family member had gone through

7:44

Chris Bathum's programs.

7:47

I continue to get a lot of people

7:49

reach out about season three, which

7:51

was Cheryl Rusfin, the cat

7:54

cult. And I'm actually gonna give a much

7:56

bigger update on that situation

7:58

later in the episode. So keep an

8:00

ear out for that. As for Kim Smith,

8:03

surprisingly, I haven't had a lot of

8:05

people reach out with that kind of comment

8:07

or people that knew her personally. That really

8:09

hasn't happened. I don't know if her family

8:12

or if she listened. I've

8:14

just heard from the people that I interviewed and

8:16

that I spoke with that

8:17

they were happy with the podcast

8:20

and happy that it was out there. But

8:22

yeah, she was released from prison. Kim

8:24

Smith was in

8:24

October of 2023. And

8:27

I haven't had any updates about that. I haven't heard

8:29

anything. I don't know, but I do know that she was

8:31

released. Let's hear

8:34

a story from a listener.

8:35

Here we go.

8:37

Hi, Hannah. My name is Cece, and

8:39

I make modern cremation

8:40

urns that double as decorative planters. They're

8:43

modern, they're geometric, and they don't

8:45

look like urns. When I first started

8:47

out, I was wholesaling with another urn company.

8:50

Eventually, I got busy with my own site and

8:52

I could not wholesale with them anymore. They

8:54

seemed kind of mad about it, but I didn't

8:56

pay much mind because I was busy with

8:59

my own stuff. I had

9:01

to, someone posting on Instagram a

9:03

photo of some urns with plants on top and

9:05

saying, I love Cece's urns. Yeah,

9:08

they were my designs.

9:09

All right, but

9:10

I hadn't made them. Turns out this company

9:12

copied all of my designs, every

9:14

size and shape, and are selling them online.

9:17

They're wholesaling them. They're on Amazon and eBay.

9:20

They're even knocking off other artists. They're

9:22

made in China and selling for much less. I

9:24

know that

9:26

large companies do this all the

9:28

time to artists, but

9:29

an urn company should be

9:32

helping grieving families with a final resting

9:34

place for their loved ones, not

9:37

selling stolen designs to make money.

9:40

Gross.

9:42

That is gross. I really don't like

9:44

that they are selling your

9:46

design without your consent. Cece

9:49

wrote to me that she first started creating

9:51

her plant urns. In 2019,

9:54

they're really cool looking. If

9:56

you are interested in Cece's urns, I'm

9:58

going to show you a video. don't buy them on Amazon.

10:02

You can check out her urns at

10:04

BoyceStudio.com. That's B-O-Y-C-E

10:07

studio.com. And all

10:09

of the links from this episode will be in the show notes so you can

10:11

check it out there. So

10:13

our next update I'm excited about. If you

10:16

recall, in November of 2021, we

10:19

released a single standalone episode on

10:22

Candace Clark. She was a serial scammer

10:24

in the Chicago area. This

10:26

is that story where Candace was posing

10:29

as the Director of Special Investigations

10:32

for the state of Illinois, which

10:33

is not a real job position, by the way. She

10:36

was throwing ceremonies and recording

10:40

herself being sworn into this position. But it

10:42

turned out everybody involved in the ceremony

10:44

was a paid actor, the audience, even

10:47

the judge who swore her in. She'd

10:49

also been doing things like

10:50

renting high-end homes in the Chicago

10:53

area, but never paying rent

10:55

on them. Darlene Simmons,

10:57

who we spoke with, she gave Candace $73,000

11:00

out of

11:02

her 401k, believing that she

11:05

was putting it into a real estate investment.

11:07

And then Candace disappeared with that money.

11:10

So when we left off with

11:13

that story in 2021, the status was that Candace

11:16

had been arrested. She had been released

11:19

on bail and was waiting for her trial

11:21

to begin. She had had multiple court

11:24

appointments that she was supposed to appear via Zoom,

11:26

but then she just wouldn't show up. One

11:28

time she claimed she was sick. Another

11:31

time she claimed to have technical difficulties

11:33

like with her webcam or something. So

11:36

she was avoiding these court

11:38

appearances. And then I found out that last

11:41

year, reporter Dorothy Tucker, who's

11:43

the one who first

11:43

broke this story, she also

11:46

spoke with us on the podcast.

11:47

She did a follow up on Candace

11:49

Clark. It's a really interesting episode. You can watch

11:52

it online. It's called Catching

11:54

Candace Clark, a CBS News

11:56

Chicago special report. And

11:58

here's a clip from that.

12:00

All together we identified 86 people

12:03

in companies that have lost money to Clark.

12:06

Added up, the total comes to a whopping $469,000.

12:12

Between 2008 and 2010 Clark was arrested

12:14

six times in Chicago in three other

12:16

suburbs. She faced charges of theft,

12:19

writing bad checks and impersonating

12:21

a police officer.

12:23

So finally last year in June

12:26

of 2022 right before her trial was set

12:28

to begin, Candice Clark agreed

12:30

to a plea deal. So she pled

12:33

guilty to five counts of theft

12:35

by deception and one count

12:37

of impersonating a state employee. She

12:39

received a sentence of five years,

12:42

but likely she will end up serving probably

12:45

about half of that time.

13:01

Okay, let's take another listener question.

13:03

This is from someone named Valerie.

13:07

My question is the episode

13:09

or episodes that have stuck with

13:11

me the most are Sherri Shriner and

13:14

Oregon. And while

13:16

I was listening to it, I found myself like

13:18

wanting to look up Oregon

13:20

and like maybe have a piece of

13:22

it. And I wonder if in

13:26

talking about Oregon so much on your

13:28

podcast, do you know if like sales

13:31

in Oregon went up because

13:33

like of more people finding

13:35

out about it and maybe being curious and like wanting a piece

13:38

of it for themselves in like a silly way.

13:39

So that's my question. Thank

13:42

you so much for considering it.

13:44

Bye.

13:46

You know, I don't know if sales in

13:49

Oregon have gone up, but I think

13:51

it's interesting that you asked this question because

13:53

I do have an update to do with

13:54

Oregon.

13:56

Last year I received an email from someone

13:58

about

13:59

the Sherri Shriner.

13:59

season. It was in like September of last

14:02

year or something. It was interesting because the season

14:04

had been

14:04

out for a

14:06

year and a half at that point. But this

14:08

email caught my eye because it was

14:10

sent from someone who has a

14:11

very personal connection to

14:14

Orgone

14:15

in a way that's really intriguing to me. So

14:18

I called her and we spoke and I'm going to play

14:20

that for you. But first a little bit of a set

14:22

up. Her name is Nora Croft.

14:25

She is the daughter of Don Croft. That

14:27

name might sound familiar to you.

14:29

We did mention Don Croft in

14:31

season one, the

14:33

Sherry Shriner season.

14:34

Or if you spent any time

14:36

Googling Orgone you've probably seen his name

14:38

come up because he's

14:40

really the person who's responsible for

14:42

bringing Orgone or Orgonite

14:45

into the modern new

14:47

age awareness. He

14:49

started making and selling Orgone

14:52

in pucks and in pendants. And

14:54

I also remember that at

14:57

one point Sherry Shriner and Don Croft

15:00

had some interactions online but

15:02

they were not friends. They really actually

15:04

didn't really like each other very much. Sherry

15:07

wanted to team up with Don Croft

15:09

but he really was not interested in that. So Don

15:13

Croft actually passed away in 2018 and his daughter

15:15

Nora has continued to learn

15:18

about his life's work as

15:21

a way to understand her

15:23

father more. And we had

15:25

a really interesting conversation about what

15:28

it was like to grow up with a dad like

15:30

that and about Don Croft's interactions

15:32

with Sherry Shriner. So a

15:35

client of mine had recommended this podcast

15:38

because I was having a conversation

15:40

with her as I do about my dad

15:43

one day and she said I recognized

15:45

this Orgone stuff and

15:48

there's this true crime podcast I listened to

15:50

and I think they might

15:52

mention your dad in it. And so

15:54

I kind of like

15:55

was sort of hesitant and I sort of like found it

15:57

and saved it for later and felt kind of

15:59

like not ready to dive into it yet. But

16:02

when I finally did, which was

16:04

shortly before I reached out to you,

16:06

I was just shocked

16:08

with how blatantly she had ripped

16:11

off so much of my dad's ideology

16:14

and so much of his structure

16:16

of these like,

16:18

Oregon adventures, they would go

16:20

on going and dropping Oregon

16:22

and like on like

16:24

government property or like lay

16:27

line areas or areas, you know,

16:29

with evil in them or

16:31

bad energy. I know

16:33

you mentioned him a little bit in it, but I was like,

16:36

Oh, they they didn't they didn't get

16:38

they didn't know the full story.

16:41

Yeah, and I'm so glad you reached out. Yeah,

16:43

because we did mention your dad, Don Croft,

16:46

in season one, but really didn't

16:48

go into his story much at all. You know,

16:51

it's interesting when I was researching

16:53

Sherri Shriner and trying to get to the bottom

16:55

of her ideology, the like web

16:58

of amount of people that she stole

17:01

things from was just unbelievable.

17:03

I mean, pretty much everything

17:04

she believed, she

17:07

had really

17:08

taken from someone else and then maybe

17:10

changed it a little bit or whatever and then incorporated

17:12

into her beliefs. And an Oregon,

17:16

as you know, was such a big part of her

17:19

cult. But really, she

17:21

stole it, stole the idea of it from your

17:23

dad, Don Croft. And I

17:26

know that they interacted a little bit online. But

17:29

I think that you

17:29

found something about their interaction, right,

17:32

that you want to talk about today. Yeah,

17:35

it was someone reposting a

17:37

post my dad had made. It says

17:39

that three and a half years

17:41

ago, Sherri Shriner contacted me in an email

17:44

and offered to bring me a lot of Christians

17:46

into the gifting movement. If I would

17:48

partner with her on the internet,

17:50

I politely declined because I feel very uncomfortable

17:53

around anyone who claims to be God's voice to

17:55

humanity. I don't think there are

17:57

any prophets living right now either. Nor are

17:59

Or did I want any arbitrary hierarchies

18:01

to develop within this movement? Wow.

18:05

So there's a little more. He said, to spice up the offer,

18:07

she told me that according to the Bible code,

18:09

I was a prophet and that Organite was even mentioned

18:12

in that context. If I were inclined

18:14

to have my ego struck in that way, it might have been

18:16

the end of my viability in this movement,

18:18

of course.

18:19

And then he goes on to talk more about

18:21

it. Yeah. Wow. That's

18:24

so interesting. I love that she tried to sweeten

18:26

the deal by saying, well, you're, you're a prophet

18:28

too. The Bible codes told

18:30

me. But your

18:33

dad, you know, clearly wasn't interested in that.

18:35

And it seems like he could

18:37

tell that Sherri Shriner was, you know,

18:39

an opportunist and a

18:42

scam artist in a lot of ways. But

18:44

you know, I'm curious to hear a little bit

18:46

more about your dad and

18:49

what it was like growing up with your dad

18:52

as Don Croft and, you know,

18:53

what Orgone meant to you as

18:55

a kid.

18:57

So my dad took me on a road

18:58

trip when I was eight or nine to Mount

19:01

Shasta and Mount Shasta is

19:03

sort of like a known paranormal hotspot

19:05

in Northern California. I remember

19:08

this was sort of my introduction into

19:10

this and into living within during this period.

19:12

We spent a day hiking Mount Shasta,

19:15

looking for the trapdoor

19:16

that goes into the center

19:18

of it, where there's a society of this

19:20

race called the Lemurians who are like related

19:23

to the Atlanteans. And

19:25

so I remember just, you know, spending this whole

19:27

day being like, are we going to find the trapdoor

19:30

to the caves? Are we going to find the entrance?

19:33

And we never did. But

19:35

did you believe what he was saying? Or

19:37

were you already skeptical? Like, how

19:39

did you feel about that? And were

19:41

you did you actually hope that you would find

19:43

the door?

19:45

I think I at the time, I thought

19:47

it was really exciting. My dad

19:49

was really fun. He

19:51

was just like a really good time. He had a

19:53

good sense of humor. He was really gregarious.

19:57

And it just kind of felt like an adventure. And I think

19:59

I.

20:00

I want to say my mentality was just kind

20:03

of the same as it is now, which is like

20:06

probably not but like maybe?

20:09

Who knows?

20:10

Yeah. Yeah,

20:11

that makes sense. But yeah,

20:13

he developed this Oregon shortly after the

20:15

Mount Shasta trip. We moved to Ashland,

20:19

Oregon, which is in

20:20

southern Oregon,

20:21

close to Mount Shasta. He

20:24

started up a business there. He really,

20:26

really took to this idea of

20:28

Oregon, which he didn't invent. It

20:31

was discovered, so to speak,

20:33

by a psychoanalyst

20:36

who studied under Freud, this man named Wilhelm

20:38

Reich in the 1940s and 50s. And

20:42

so he sort of characterized it as like a life

20:44

force energy, almost like a chi.

20:47

And he experimented with putting

20:49

different materials together, layers

20:51

of inorganic and organic materials. You'll

20:54

see this all over pop culture. The

20:57

band Devo's hats are Oregon accumulators.

21:01

In Jack Kerouac's On the Road, he

21:03

talks about sitting in an Oregon accumulator

21:06

box when he's coming

21:08

down off heroin to help him with his withdrawal

21:10

symptoms.

21:11

That's interesting. I didn't know that, but

21:13

it was in On the Road. Yeah, and I meet

21:15

random people here and there who

21:18

know about it

21:18

through other contexts too.

21:21

But my dad was the one who decided

21:23

to make it, in his words, tactical.

21:27

And so he started making these little muffin

21:29

tins filled with epoxy resin

21:32

and metal shavings and quartz

21:34

crystals. And sometimes there

21:36

are coils thrown in or things

21:39

like that. But basically these little

21:41

manmade crystals, which he called Orgonite,

21:44

were supposed to take in bad

21:46

energy or dead orgon and then purify

21:49

it and put out good energy or good orgon.

21:52

And in this form, it kind of took off on the internet.

21:56

At one point, the Will Smith's

21:58

kids and the Gen.

21:59

nurse

22:01

were making organite pyramids.

22:03

I'll see random people sometimes out with like

22:05

a necklace, like a pendant made of it, and I'll be like,

22:08

you know what that is? And they'll

22:10

tell me, but they never know my dad's name,

22:13

which makes me really happy because that's what he

22:15

wanted. He wanted to create a grassroots movement.

22:18

He never wanted to be the face of it. That's why

22:20

he was so grossed out by Sherri Shriner.

22:23

He was totally antithetical to

22:25

like every value he had.

22:28

Nora talked

22:31

to me about

22:31

what it was like to have a dad like

22:33

Don Croft. You know, he did a lot

22:36

of the same things as Sherri Shriner and

22:38

her group. He made and tossed organite

22:41

out into the world. He believed that

22:43

there were death towers everywhere that

22:45

needed to be neutralized with organite.

22:48

He believed in the healing power of it.

22:50

He also thought there were shadow

22:52

people, aliens, lizards. Nora

22:55

told me that her father believed that she

22:57

had psychic powers as a kid and he was trying

22:59

to help her, you know, bring that

23:01

out in her using organite. But

23:04

she also said that as she got a little older,

23:06

you know, became a teenager, she kind

23:08

of didn't care so much about what her dad was into,

23:11

all these wacky beliefs, and she sort

23:13

of went through a period of time in which she thought he

23:15

was a little bit crazy. But she always

23:18

said he was a great dad and then, you know, he

23:20

passed away

23:20

in 2018

23:22

and she said, you know, over the past five years

23:25

she's been looking back at her dad's

23:27

life and his

23:28

writing. He wrote a book called

23:30

The

23:30

Life Etheric with Carol Croft,

23:33

who was his wife,

23:34

and Nora's been thinking about these

23:36

concepts in a different way as an adult

23:39

with a different perspective and she's also just been

23:41

thinking a lot about her dad. She told

23:43

me that her dad

23:44

loved listening to this radio show

23:46

in the 90s called Coast to Coast

23:49

AM hosted by Art Bell

23:51

and it was on every night from

23:53

like midnight to 5 a.m. and

23:56

her dad would tune in and listen to

23:58

it. He

23:58

would talk about fringe talk.

23:59

topics all night long.

24:01

I've been listening to this recently

24:03

and it's kind of been bringing back a lot of memories and

24:05

really helping me link where he

24:07

got all of his ideas from in the 90s.

24:10

And what is it

24:12

like, sorry to interrupt you, but like, yeah, what

24:14

is it like when you listen to it now?

24:16

What do you I don't know what kind of like feeling

24:18

does that bring

24:19

up in you?

24:20

It's, it's really surreal, but

24:23

it's especially surreal right now because

24:25

we're, we're having, you know,

24:28

actual disclosure talked about

24:30

in Congress and

24:32

like all of these things are coming out and it's,

24:34

it's, it's really making me think about it

24:36

differently than I ever have before. It's weird

24:39

listening to it now because I kind of

24:41

am

24:42

a lot more believing of it.

24:44

It's interesting to think about the

24:47

whole thing of aliens coming out, right? Like I

24:49

was following this when it, when it happened and I

24:51

was wondering if you did. Yeah. And

24:54

it's just like very fascinating. And now

24:57

it's not a wild thing or a conspiracy

24:59

thing to say that you believe

25:00

in aliens. And you know, I'm so curious,

25:02

what do you think that, you know,

25:04

if your dad were alive today, like how do you

25:06

think he would have reacted to all of that? If

25:09

he's anything like me, then

25:11

it would be like, I fucking told you so.

25:13

Like, like, see, I

25:17

told you, I told you there were manmade

25:20

UFOs from, from technology

25:22

that was given to us. And you

25:24

know, I've kind of, to be honest, I've had my

25:27

mind like blown wide open many,

25:31

many times since this whole disclosure thing

25:33

started in

25:35

late July. I literally like Kate

25:37

like had been super ill and then it had

25:40

a surgery and came out of surgery into

25:42

like that,

25:44

that I had no idea was happening. And I was like, wait,

25:46

what?

25:48

It must be extra trippy for someone like

25:50

you with your, you know,

25:52

past and with your dad. I

25:55

can only imagine having all of this come out

25:57

about

25:58

UAPs.

25:59

right? Is that what they call them now? Yeah, that

26:02

must have been like,

26:03

I don't know, interesting for you on like an even deeper

26:05

level than just the average person watching

26:08

this news. Yeah, it,

26:11

it definitely does. And like,

26:14

but, but there's this sort of

26:16

layer or like, like

26:18

tabs open in my brain at all

26:20

times, where I'm

26:22

always kind of thinking about this stuff. Like

26:25

what if?

26:26

Yeah, or like, or just listening

26:29

to podcasts about things that

26:31

I, that I never would have listened to before about

26:33

like metaphysical type things and,

26:36

and kind of connecting it. And again, that's part

26:38

of trying to get inside my dad's head.

26:42

There's

26:42

so much more to this story than what

26:44

I've been able to put into

26:45

this podcast here today.

26:48

Nora is interested in working on a documentary or

26:51

something to do with her dad's life story.

26:53

So if you're interested in getting updates

26:55

on that project, you can find Nora

26:58

on Instagram at Nora

27:00

Croft cuts my hair. And

27:02

I'll also put that in the show notes.

27:05

After this short break, we'll be back with a

27:07

big update about

27:08

the cat cult, along with some

27:11

great listener stories.

27:27

Okay. So season three of the opportunist,

27:30

this was the Cheryl Ruthven story,

27:32

the cat cult, the woman who ran a high

27:35

control group or cult that posed

27:37

as a cat rescue. And part of

27:39

Cheryl Ruthven method for controlling

27:42

people was requiring them to adopt

27:45

unbelievable amounts of cats.

27:48

And oftentimes these cats were sick and had

27:50

really intensive needs

27:51

when it came to medication

27:54

and being isolated from other cats, which

27:57

was really difficult when you had to have like 20

27:58

or 30 cats.

27:59

cats in your home.

28:01

And it was a huge financial

28:03

burden and a stressful thing

28:05

and a time burden. We spoke with

28:07

people who talked about waking up in

28:10

the middle of the night because some of these cats had to have

28:12

medicine every three hours or something. And

28:15

one thing I heard a lot from the ex-followers

28:17

of Cheryl was that the cat's needs

28:19

came first. This was so clear

28:22

from Cheryl that the cats needed to be

28:24

fed and taken care of above

28:27

even people's own children.

28:29

So in season three we tracked

28:31

Cheryl's ideology as it evolved

28:33

over the years from something originally

28:36

kind of resembling Christianity to something so

28:38

entirely

28:39

different.

28:41

Ultimately I felt

28:42

like the only consistent aspect

28:45

was inconsistency. Like

28:47

it was always changing which

28:50

made it impossible for anyone else

28:52

to

28:52

get a firm grasp on what

28:54

would be coming next. And what that

28:56

did was that solidified Cheryl

28:58

herself as the only voice

29:00

of authority.

29:02

Eventually she

29:03

came to teach her followers that she

29:05

was basically a god on earth and that

29:08

if they disobeyed her

29:09

or if they left her

29:11

group

29:12

that they would be punished by burning

29:14

in hell. I have heard a

29:16

few updates about

29:19

Cheryl's group.

29:21

I think the biggest one is that they made

29:23

a move. So if

29:24

you'll recall in the season the group

29:27

started in Washington

29:28

state and then they moved to

29:30

Columbia,

29:31

Tennessee.

29:32

So since the podcast has come out and I don't

29:34

know how much this relates to the podcast

29:37

someone said oh they heard the podcast

29:39

and this is inspiring them to move. I really don't

29:42

know if that's true or if this is a totally separate

29:44

thing but the group did move

29:46

from

29:47

Tennessee, Columbia, Tennessee

29:48

to Kentucky weirdly enough

29:50

Columbia, Kentucky.

29:52

So from Columbia,

29:53

Tennessee to Columbia, Kentucky.

29:56

But now they're in Kentucky and I've

29:59

heard rump

29:59

that they might move again, I really don't know

30:02

if that's true. Every once in a while,

30:04

I'll get a small update. I

30:07

know some people that are still very plugged

30:09

in as far as watching

30:11

what happens with the group. I've

30:14

heard some updates that there have been a few

30:17

people who have left.

30:19

I did not speak with any of those people, but I

30:21

do wish them all the best

30:23

and I am happy for them that

30:25

they were able to leave an abusive

30:28

and controlling situation. I

30:30

did catch up with two people who you

30:32

heard in the season. Sisters,

30:35

Mary Lancaster and Rachel Gunderson,

30:38

they were both ex-cult members. They

30:40

both spent many years of their

30:42

adult life

30:44

in Cheryl's group dedicating

30:46

their money, their lives, their time,

30:49

everything to Cheryl. We

30:51

got into a little bit of conversation

30:54

about how the

30:56

podcast has played a role in their lives

30:58

now, about what

31:00

it feels like to tell your intimate

31:03

and traumatic story on

31:04

a true crime

31:06

podcast, and also

31:08

about some updates

31:10

that they'd heard from the group. Here

31:12

we go.

31:13

We haven't really communicated that much even

31:16

since the podcast came out. I'm

31:19

curious how that

31:21

affected anything for you. Maybe

31:24

just give us an update

31:26

on where you are now with things.

31:29

It's a 10-year journey for me and of course you can't

31:31

fit 10 years worth of all types of weird

31:34

and crazy stories into it, but I

31:36

felt the show did a great job with the time frame

31:39

it had to

31:40

tell the story.

31:42

Mary told me that since the podcast came

31:44

out, she has used it as a tool,

31:46

sending it to her friends and family so that

31:49

they can listen to it and hopefully understand

31:52

a

31:52

little more fully

31:53

what she went through by being

31:56

in the cult and how it has affected her

31:58

life.

31:59

Here's this show that was well done, take a listen

32:02

to understand a bit more. A lot

32:04

of the feedback I got from those friends

32:06

and family members, well done. It helped

32:08

them understand me a little bit more, maybe. It

32:11

opened their minds and hearts to

32:14

a story that maybe they just got bits and pieces about

32:16

from me. Yeah, but after

32:19

life kept ticking away, anything,

32:22

it was good as when we talked

32:24

last time and things are going very well.

32:27

Tell me how long

32:27

now it's been since you got

32:30

out. Next April of next year,

32:32

it'll be 10 years.

32:33

Thinking back about this last 10 years,

32:35

how do you feel now versus

32:37

when you first left?

32:38

Is it still something that you

32:41

think about every day, every

32:43

week? How

32:45

has it evolved and changed over time?

32:48

Yes, coming out

32:51

of the cult, it

32:52

was very hard, not to this point that

32:55

I wanted to leave, and I was desperate to leave. The

32:57

hard part was a lot of the instilled fear,

33:00

conditioning that I'd gone through, and all the

33:03

palpitations of the heart. Am I making the right

33:05

decision?

33:07

Yes, Cheryl is a fraud and she's a

33:09

charlatan. Then there's that little scene

33:11

from the years of conditioning that's going,

33:14

well, what if she is who she says

33:16

she is, and this is a major mistake you're making,

33:18

and you're paving your way to hell.

33:22

I took a lot of heart

33:24

work and

33:25

brain work to get through those times.

33:28

Ten years later, do I think

33:30

of them? It comes up in my mind,

33:33

definitely not every day, but it

33:36

does come up. I'll see

33:39

what's going on in the world of Cheryl

33:41

and Animal Rescue and

33:43

find out.

33:45

All they've done is renamed Eva's Eden

33:48

to Da Vinci's dreams

33:50

or whatever. They're

33:52

still out there trying to

33:55

put a face to the front that everything is

33:57

cool and they're doing great

33:58

things for pets in the world. when it's

34:00

all just a front. So yeah,

34:03

and there are still at times that

34:06

conditioning that will come up, like even

34:09

right now talking to you or when I was getting ready

34:11

to talk with you and my wife and

34:13

I were running errands, I start feeling

34:15

that palpitation in my heart, like, oh my God, I'm

34:18

going to reveal myself and

34:20

reveal Cheryl or put

34:22

her out there in front and center and that

34:25

little bit of

34:25

fear pops up, a little bit of

34:27

PTSD, but now, I mean, I have

34:30

done therapy now and I've gone

34:32

through some really great healing

34:34

things in my life and now I can

34:36

logically look at it and like, this is bullshit.

34:40

Mary, you're going to be okay, this is okay. She

34:42

is someone that deserves to be exposed and

34:44

so let's do this and

34:46

that was good to go. So here we are.

34:49

Yeah, wow, thank you for that. And

34:52

so Rachel, yeah, let's hear from you a little

34:54

bit. When the podcast

34:56

came out, I don't know if that like

34:58

changed anything for you or

35:01

and then how have things sort of been going for you

35:03

since? Sure,

35:04

thank you. So doing

35:06

the podcast

35:07

with the opportunists with you, it

35:11

definitely was a good

35:13

and trying experience. When

35:15

y'all came to me

35:17

to start this discussion, I was weary,

35:21

but I was so thankful after talking

35:24

with you for a bit to feel

35:25

that I could trust your direction

35:27

and trust the integrity of how you wanted

35:29

to tell the story that

35:31

at that time a few years back with y'all,

35:34

I wasn't ready as I thought

35:36

I was to unbury those stories and

35:40

unbury those feelings,

35:41

but I'm glad I did. Post

35:45

from that time, I still have strangers

35:49

that will find out what my name is and be like,

35:51

I heard you on the opportunist, cats. And

35:56

I get fan groups sometimes out

35:58

in the wild. It is happening. been on multiple

36:00

occasions. Even just yesterday,

36:02

another person said, I listened to your

36:04

podcast.

36:07

But nowadays, as far as how

36:10

I've come out of all

36:12

those experiences, like Mary, I'm a year

36:14

ahead of her on getting out. These days,

36:16

I'm learning that while I

36:18

think Cheryl is laughable, and

36:22

like Mary said, worthy of being exposed

36:24

and worthy of being laughed at, the effects

36:26

that are lingering with me to this day are

36:28

not religious, are not supernatural.

36:32

I have no

36:34

feelings in that way. But I think the lingering,

36:37

psychological,

36:39

deeper things are still something that I'm coming

36:42

to grips with, of

36:44

needing approval from a person that was

36:46

the focal point of my life for

36:48

a decade.

36:49

How that changes you

36:51

as a human and what so many

36:53

people can identify with, of

36:55

being with an abuser for

36:57

that long. You

37:00

can come to grips and find

37:02

healing on more surface

37:04

levels, but years and

37:07

decades later, still

37:08

realize you have things to work through that

37:11

still hurt. I'm still coming

37:14

to grips with that. I'm still paying the price

37:16

of that.

37:17

Like Mary, I have started

37:19

therapy. I'm

37:21

taking a little break from it right now, but therapy

37:24

is to help me understand what

37:26

parts of me are still stuck back

37:29

there.

37:30

It has nothing to do with a

37:32

woman that claims she is

37:34

the Christ on earth. It's more of just what

37:36

happened to me and creates

37:38

how I react today based on what I

37:41

went through two decades ago. Yeah,

37:43

I went through a... Mary and I and many

37:45

others went through a crazy cat cult, but

37:48

there are lingering psychological effects

37:50

we are still dealing with decades later from

37:53

this time. That's what I'm learning. If

37:55

there can be anything for y'all

37:57

in this world listening to this podcast that watch, please subscribe to

37:59

our channel.

37:59

true crime documentaries, podcasts.

38:04

I have an awesome respect for those that

38:06

come forward and tell their stories because I know if I'm

38:08

feeling what I'm feeling, they have as well.

38:10

It takes a lot of courage

38:12

to share something that's so deep, painful,

38:15

and in a lot of ways embarrassing. Understanding

38:18

that cults

38:20

have been for a

38:22

number of years now, such a big selling

38:24

point for entertainment.

38:25

I watch it too.

38:28

I've watched several of

38:30

them and I feel with them and I see

38:33

my experiences in them. Like

38:35

Mary just said, each one

38:37

of those people

38:38

talking, there is a cost

38:40

to speaking to your story. There

38:43

is a pain that you

38:45

have to bring up and you have to relive.

38:48

Even if you've come so far, you are still

38:50

reliving that pain. Just to bring

38:52

it all back, that's so important

38:55

to me. I feel like it is to my sister Mary to

38:58

remember that you listening,

39:01

that us talking, we are humans and

39:03

we experience pain.

39:06

It's worth remembering that side.

39:09

Yeah, absolutely. It's something I

39:11

think about a lot as having

39:13

done the show for three years now and

39:16

interviewed so many people that really

39:19

are sitting down and telling me

39:21

about the most traumatic things

39:23

that they've been through. I always

39:26

take that so seriously because it's

39:28

a weird thing to be working in true crime

39:30

and thinking that ultimately this is entertainment.

39:32

But I've had to kind of grapple

39:35

with that over the past few years. To

39:37

me, the meaning always

39:39

comes in when I am speaking

39:41

to people who have been wronged, who feel

39:44

a

39:45

sense of

39:47

purpose in being able to tell their story. But

39:49

I also understand that it comes with a cost

39:52

and it's difficult to revisit. I just

39:55

really appreciate both of you

39:57

telling your stories to me for the opportunist and then

39:59

I'll see you next time. jumping back on here for a little,

40:03

you know, catch up. And I

40:05

guess I'm curious if, you know, if

40:08

you do keep in touch with anyone

40:12

from the cult or a few, like,

40:14

how much are you interested in, like, sort of, keep,

40:17

like, learning about what's happening? Do you check up on it?

40:19

Or is it sort of, like, I don't want to even spend

40:21

my time looking at that?

40:24

It finds us. I

40:26

don't think we could stop the

40:28

information from getting to us at this

40:30

point, because we're so heavily

40:32

associated with the group

40:35

with Cheryl that the information

40:37

finds its way to us, for better or worse.

40:39

I mean, someone said, hey, there's

40:41

Da Vinci's whatever dream,

40:43

and now they're inclusive of dogs.

40:46

Yeah, it's not just cats anymore. Yeah,

40:49

that's 80 cats and dogs.

40:52

I'm going to be very careful on information.

40:55

I have been given chunks,

40:57

good chunks

40:58

of information in recent history,

40:59

but I don't feel at liberty to provide

41:02

names or circumstances.

41:04

But there

41:06

are there have been individuals who

41:08

have left in the last year. Individuals

41:13

that

41:14

on one side are

41:16

very still scared of Cheryl, worried

41:19

of what threat she could pose to them

41:21

if they were to open themselves up to

41:23

talk. And I know of another

41:26

individual,

41:26

again, going nameless, that has

41:29

left and is guns blazing.

41:31

And I don't have the permission

41:33

to speak about their story or

41:35

their name. But I am

41:38

happy

41:38

to know that even

41:40

if it's one in two in the last year

41:42

or two years, that people

41:45

are recognizing the abuse. And

41:48

even if among 40 people,

41:50

two people have left, and two people have

41:52

claimed their own life and livelihoods

41:55

to themselves. That's awesome. Without

41:58

mentioning names again,

41:59

So I helped Mary Walker on

42:02

the Facebook page.

42:04

And somebody

42:06

who I assume

42:08

they're still in the occult accidentally

42:10

liked the post about the

42:12

opportunist, and they must

42:15

have been checking out the website behind Cheryl's

42:17

back. Or maybe for her, I don't know, maybe they're

42:19

one of her spies. And they accidentally liked

42:21

it and unlike it immediately. So whether

42:24

it's her sanctioning them to take a look

42:27

or they're curious, something

42:29

inside them, you know, making them curious

42:31

to kind of go behind her back. People are looking.

42:34

And I'm sure if they're listening to this right now, those

42:36

that are the, you know, pro Cheryl spies,

42:39

they're probably going to take this right back to her. And unfortunately,

42:42

people will probably get browbeaten,

42:44

you know, who's talking to Mary

42:46

and Rachel or who's

42:48

on the Facebook page and accidentally

42:50

liking, like this is going to get back to them.

42:52

You can bet it, Hannah, that your

42:56

name and the opportunist is

42:58

a part of their bad history.

43:00

Bad,

43:02

bad, bad list. The bad list.

43:05

Hey, I hope that people that are

43:07

in her cult have listened to it. And maybe that'll be

43:09

the seed of something that, you

43:13

know, maybe make them question.

43:15

Who knows? I don't know. You know, maybe not. I hope

43:17

so.

43:18

I'm thinking of this one person that

43:20

is still in the group that

43:22

their family life, their

43:24

relationship is still heavily

43:27

controlled by Cheryl. They

43:29

do not have permission to leave the

43:32

abusive situation they're in because of Cheryl.

43:37

I hope they see the love outside of that

43:39

circumstance and gravitate towards that

43:41

love, that kindness that exists

43:44

for them outside of Cheryl's control. And

43:47

finds a way to get out, but it's scary. It's

43:50

so, so scary when you're stuck

43:52

in it for your entire life or your entire adult

43:54

life. But I hope they

43:57

hear us and hope that they find

43:59

a way out.

43:59

find a way to give themselves permission

44:02

to leave that abusive relationship

44:04

someday.

44:08

I thought it was really interesting how Rachel compared

44:11

being in a cult with being in an abusive

44:14

relationship. And I don't know

44:16

that all cults

44:17

are like that or feel like that necessarily,

44:20

but I can really see the

44:22

comparison when it comes to

44:25

Cheryl Ruthven and how controlling

44:27

and abusive she was to both Mary

44:29

and Rachel and to many others. I

44:32

just hope for anyone who's in

44:34

an abusive relationship to be able to

44:36

make their way out of it and to

44:38

be free from that. Thank

44:40

you so much Mary and Rachel for speaking

44:43

with me. Okay

44:46

here we are now at the voice

44:48

messages from listeners. We have a couple

44:51

left and I'm really excited

44:53

to

44:53

share them with you. Okay

44:55

this is from Rosa. She lives in Los

44:57

Angeles and Rosa moved

45:00

into a house

45:00

two years ago.

45:02

She's renting the house. It's in LA. She

45:04

said that before she moved into

45:06

the house, the house

45:08

had been sitting empty for

45:10

maybe a long time. She doesn't know how long. So

45:13

then it was renovated

45:15

and she rented it.

45:17

But then

45:18

pretty quickly after moving

45:21

into this house,

45:22

things got strange.

45:25

I started to receive mail

45:27

packages under people's

45:29

names I didn't recognize. Nobody

45:32

showed up to claim the packages and

45:34

I would look into who the

45:36

prior tenants were through the

45:38

landlord and I couldn't find

45:41

who the owners of the packages were. Not

45:44

too long after receiving the packages,

45:47

I started having people show

45:49

up at my door ringing

45:52

the doorbell. The first person I remember,

45:54

it was really early. The gentleman

45:57

said he was sent here. He was

45:59

called to come and do a repair at this house. That

46:03

was not true. No one had called

46:05

him, and he claimed to

46:07

have had some sort of request to be here.

46:10

Anyway, the years have gone on, and we

46:14

have had people show up

46:16

to our house looking for their

46:18

lovers that they met online that

46:21

are catfishing them. I've

46:24

met numerous people who've arrived

46:26

to my home, having driven

46:29

cross-country to meet the love

46:31

of their life that they met online who

46:33

told them to meet them here, and they don't

46:36

live here. No one by that name lives

46:38

on this property. We've also

46:41

had the police called

46:43

to our home falsely by people

46:45

interacting with the scammers who

46:49

might be asking their

46:51

scammy to send money immediately or

46:53

they're being held hostage. The

46:57

police have showed up at my home asking if I

47:00

was being held hostage. Other

47:02

examples include pizza deliveries

47:05

to my home under unknown

47:07

names, flour deliveries, fraudulent

47:10

EDD, credit card,

47:13

opening new credit cards, new cell phone

47:15

accounts. We've gotten burner

47:17

phones sent to our home. We've gotten

47:20

an iPad sent to our home, and letter

47:24

mail daily. I get packages a few

47:26

times a month and visitors

47:30

probably a couple times a month as well. And

47:32

if it's a holiday, it's usually a little bit more visitors.

47:36

I call them people who are coming to my door.

47:39

Rosa told me that she just started

47:42

to believe

47:43

that her address was

47:45

being used by a scammer or

47:47

multiple scammers. Then one

47:50

day she received a router and a

47:52

modem to her house under

47:54

some woman's name. But

47:56

then

47:57

this woman showed up to her house, and at

47:59

first she was called to my house.

47:59

was relieved, like finally, some

48:02

of this random mail I'm getting, there's a person

48:04

here to collect it, but

48:06

it was actually so much worse than

48:08

that because what she found out was that

48:11

this woman believed that she had signed

48:13

Elise on this house and she

48:15

was like ready to move in.

48:18

And we found out that she had seen a

48:20

post online of my

48:23

place for rent. And

48:26

she thought she had obtained

48:28

it to rent. She shows

48:30

up here thinking she was moving in and sent

48:33

the router here and the

48:35

cable box here. And I had

48:38

to tell her, no, I live here. I mean, I

48:40

have a, you know, I have a legal lease and

48:43

I have, you know,

48:45

I know the owner, I can put you in contact with

48:47

him. She asked me if I'd be willing to talk to

48:50

the police for her. And I said, absolutely. If it's helpful,

48:52

I've talked to the police. And they pretty much said, I'm sorry,

48:55

not much we can do, but she did lose $3,000 on a deposit,

48:57

fraudulently, to

49:02

someone claiming that they were the landlord

49:05

here.

49:06

There was another time in which a person showed

49:08

up to Rosa's house looking for dogs.

49:11

I guess they'd seen a Facebook post

49:13

listing puppies for sale and listed

49:16

Rosa's home address, but Rosa

49:18

didn't have any puppies for sale. And the person

49:21

who came to her door had

49:23

not given this Facebook scammer any

49:26

money. So Rosa

49:27

said it just didn't really make sense. Like what

49:29

was the scam

49:31

just to get them to drive across the city

49:33

for no reason. So not all of the

49:36

scams made that much sense. And

49:38

she thinks that probably what happened

49:41

was back before her

49:43

home was renovated. It was just sitting

49:46

empty. It looked like an abandoned house and

49:49

a person or a group of people found

49:52

out about that and started using this sort

49:54

of quote quote abandoned house

49:57

address as a scammer address.

51:27

into

52:00

a day. I have recorded videos,

52:02

I have doorbell pictures, I have

52:05

doorbell recordings of people

52:08

of these stories, of packages of mail.

52:11

And just hoping to just figure

52:13

it out. One is a huge nuisance to me

52:15

and my family, but also

52:18

like what is happening.

52:21

If you have any ideas

52:22

about how Rosa can stop these scammers

52:25

from using her address or how she can find

52:28

out if her address

52:30

is posted somewhere on the internet,

52:32

send me your ideas on Instagram or

52:34

Twitter slash X at Hannah

52:36

Podcasts.

52:38

And I've also asked Rosa to

52:39

keep me updated if there are any breaks in

52:41

the case. And

52:43

here is our final

52:45

voice note from a listener. Hey,

52:48

Hannah, my name is Andrea Wilson Woods,

52:51

and I'm the president and founder of Blue Fairy,

52:54

the Adrian Wilson Liver Cancer Association. I just

52:57

heard your recent podcast episode about

53:00

wanting stories. So here you

53:03

go. When I was 22 years old, I

53:05

was living in Los Angeles, and

53:07

I ended up getting custody of my eight year

53:09

old sister Adrian. We have the

53:11

same biological mother, different

53:14

biological fathers. Her father

53:16

died in a car accident before she was born,

53:19

so she never knew him. Ultimately,

53:21

I ended up suing our mother for custody

53:24

and one. So I raised

53:26

my sister Adrian throughout my 20s. We were 14 years

53:28

apart in age. And through

53:32

a loophole in the California law,

53:35

I was able to get health insurance for her,

53:37

but not for myself. And

53:40

then in the spring of 2000, I received

53:42

a call from the state of California accusing

53:45

me of fraud, saying

53:47

that my sister was not eligible for

53:49

health insurance and that I was

53:52

getting a check from the state. And I none

53:54

of that was true. I had no idea what they were talking

53:56

about. I managed to

53:59

work it out. But I didn't know what

54:01

was going on. Fast forward one year

54:03

later, in May of 2001, my

54:07

now 15-year-old sister is diagnosed

54:09

with stage four liver cancer.

54:12

But we have health insurance, so I'm not worried.

54:15

During the first two weeks of her treatment,

54:18

we discovered something was amiss. And

54:22

it came out that our

54:24

mother, our biological mother,

54:27

had been embezzling Social

54:29

Security money that belonged to my sister,

54:32

which is why the year before, we almost

54:35

lost her health insurance. Our

54:37

mother had been getting almost $700 a month for years and

54:42

never told us and

54:44

did not send child

54:46

support to me.

54:48

And Hannah, we struggled.

54:50

I mean, we really struggled. So

54:54

ultimately, I helped the Social

54:57

Security Administration and the

54:59

federal government. I helped

55:01

them prosecute my mother. It took

55:03

several years. And my sister

55:05

died in October of 2001. And

55:09

I continued working with the federal government

55:12

to prosecute my mother. It took many

55:14

years. But

55:16

in March of 2006, I spoke

55:19

at her sentencing hearing and

55:22

she received the maximum at the time.

55:25

She served 10 months in federal

55:27

prison. She had

55:30

to pay back all the money she stole

55:32

from my sister, which was over $50,000. Had

55:35

my sister still been alive, it would

55:37

have gone directly to my sister. Unfortunately,

55:40

it went back to the federal government. It

55:42

was devastating. Knowing

55:45

that she stole from my sister, knowing that she

55:47

didn't confess to it and

55:49

my sister was diagnosed with cancer

55:52

broke my heart.

55:54

And the last time I saw my mother was

55:56

at that sentencing hearing in

55:58

March

55:59

of 2007.

55:59

Blue Fairy is the organization

56:02

I founded in memory of my sister, and

56:05

we've been working with liver cancer patients

56:07

and families for 20 years now.

56:11

The website is BlueFairy, B-L-U-E-F-A-E-R-Y

56:16

dot org. Thanks Hannah. Thanks

56:18

you Andrea for sending that in, and

56:21

I'm so sorry for the loss of your

56:23

sister. It is a

56:25

reminder that

56:27

not all scammers are strangers. Sometimes

56:30

they are in your own family. If

56:32

you want to check out Andrea's non-profit,

56:34

you can go to BlueFairy.org. Her

56:37

sister, Adrienne, loved the color

56:39

blue, often dyed her hair

56:41

blue, and then eventually wore

56:43

a blue wig. She also loved to

56:46

wear wings, and thus she got the

56:48

nickname Blue Fairy.

56:50

Thank you again, Andrea.

56:52

Before I wrap up this episode, I did

56:54

want to include one note about the

56:57

previous mini episode I put out. I

56:59

had a few people reach out to me and ask

57:01

me

57:02

why Lindsay didn't report the scam

57:04

that she was witnessing at

57:06

the Guardianship non-profit. And I

57:09

just want to say, I had to cut that interview

57:11

down

57:12

because of time, but basically, I

57:15

did talk with her about this, and I should have put it in the

57:18

episode, because I don't want it to seem

57:20

like she didn't do anything about it. She

57:23

acknowledged to me that she wishes she had

57:25

reported it, and if she were in that

57:27

same situation now, she would absolutely

57:30

report it.

57:30

But at the time,

57:33

she was so young and inexperienced,

57:35

and she just didn't

57:36

think to do that. And

57:39

while I don't want to make any sweeping

57:41

generalizations about young people, because there

57:43

are brilliant people of every age,

57:46

I do think that sometimes scammers

57:49

who are running fraudulent businesses, they

57:51

look

57:52

for inexperienced and

57:54

young people to hire who they think

57:56

that they can more easily manipulate.

57:59

That's not to say that they always can, but

58:02

I have heard

58:02

that time and time again from people.

58:06

Okay, well that's all I have

58:08

for you.

58:09

I know this is a long episode, but I just figured

58:12

I didn't want to cut anything out of it. I just,

58:15

it was really meaningful to

58:17

me to get to hear from some of you. It

58:19

really, really was. I so appreciate

58:21

every single person that wrote in, whether

58:24

it's a question or a suggestion or a

58:26

voice note. Thank you so much. It

58:29

really was lovely to hear from

58:31

all of you.

58:32

I hope that you all have a great end of the year,

58:35

a great holiday season, and

58:37

happy new year. We're taking a short

58:40

break here at the end of the year, but

58:42

there'll be new episodes soon

58:44

enough. Thank you again. Thank

58:59

you.

59:29

Thank you.