0:00

this episode contains disturbing

0:02

content and explicit language please

0:04

take care while listening

0:09

at

0:13

very of the ocean, there

0:15

are thousands of shipwrecks

0:18

and on some of

0:20

those there's treasure

0:22

gold and silver, just

0:25

sitting there waiting to be

0:27

found

0:28

anymore six thousand directs is probably hundreds

0:30

of thousands rex all over barbie

0:33

ocean i have been told there's more going on above

0:35

the ocean and shipwrecks in there on the surface you

0:38

if you computer fraud time going back

0:40

to four thousand b c when it started

0:42

sail around stuff six

0:46

treasure hunting requires a certain level

0:48

of imagination and navigating

0:51

deep ocean waters requires a tremendous

0:53

level of skill in two thousand

0:55

nine seven much chance was part of a crew

0:58

with the mission to salvage one

1:00

of those shipwrecks the ss

1:02

port nicholson the rak lies

1:04

just off the coast of cape cod about

1:07

seven hundred feet below the ocean surface

1:10

and it was said to be filled with platinum

1:12

and gold

1:12

i knew they were looking for guys so

1:15

as either gonna go back to new yorkers and i want

1:17

to jump on a vote of gonna gonna try to

1:19

the person behind the salvaging

1:21

mission is a man named greg products

1:24

he's a veteran deep sea salvager

1:27

and , insisted that on the port

1:29

nicholson shipwreck was enough platinum

1:31

and gold to change the lives of

1:34

an entire town for talking

1:36

billions of dollars worth of precious

1:38

metals all he had to do

1:41

was go get it

1:42

four billion is a lot of money when

1:45

you saw in your face and was a big terrorist like

1:47

careless all around quarterback in

1:50

you can get gold fever from it and

1:52

lot of people do

1:54

her grandparents his relentless

1:56

pursuit of the port nicholson treasure

1:59

landed him

1:59

the entire mission at the center

2:02

of an f b i investigation

2:04

haven't remembers being questioned by authorities

2:07

they want to buy our the logbook the wonder for

2:09

evidence or game it's warm and

2:11

, little white when idea about over because

2:13

our dialogue heart muscle in there

2:16

and those words of every detail

2:18

of what we did that i've seen the indiana

2:20

jones movies artifacts like this despair and

2:22

huge warehouse never seen

2:24

everyone in the story is looking for

2:26

treasure but not all the treasure

2:29

lies at the bottom of the

2:32

and kept media as

2:34

as the average

2:54

you are enjoying the show would you take a moment

2:56

to rate review and follow the

2:58

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4:46

brock has lived in for a main for

4:48

over twenty years

4:49

the small suburb just outside of portland

4:52

the kind of place where everyone knows everyone

4:55

i grew up here in maine i was born in maine

4:58

my dad was doing the treasure

5:00

hunting thing from pretty much from

5:02

the time i was born

5:03

this is ashley brooks trek fan

5:06

and he started that i didn't wanna talk

5:08

to me

5:08

ashley told me he doesn't trust the media

5:11

she agreed to do an interview

5:13

greg has lived his whole adult

5:15

on or near the coast of maine

5:17

he served in the military and then became an

5:19

entrepreneur running his own swimming

5:21

for business

5:23

the trajectory of his career change

5:25

forever while he was on vacation

5:28

and nineteen eighty four

5:29

when my parents

5:31

went on a caribbean trip with a couple of their

5:34

friends my dad snorkeling

5:36

any found any silver bars in the sands

5:39

the sands is kind of what set him off on this journey

5:42

of being really curious about treasure

5:44

about shipwrecks

5:46

ashley said that greg was never able

5:48

to retrieve that silver bar

5:50

just knowing it was their sparked

5:52

something and his mind

5:54

the decided to become an actual

5:56

treasure hunter

5:58

the i remember there were periods when as

5:59

up where my dad would be

6:02

you know gone for a few weeks at a time out to sea

6:05

and it wasn't until i was probably a teenager

6:07

that he was doing the shipwreck business

6:09

full time

6:10

the shipwreck business sounds exciting

6:13

in reality it's a lot

6:16

of paperwork finding

6:18

the perfect shipwreck can be like looking

6:20

for a needle in a haystack you

6:22

to determine exactly

6:24

where a shipwreck is on the ocean

6:26

floor and then you need to

6:28

confirm that the ship was actually

6:30

carrying treasure when it saying

6:32

those ships have cargo manifest

6:34

then you've gotta make sure

6:36

no one else know

6:37

in our country has a legal claim

6:40

to that shipwreck

6:42

greg hired researchers to comb

6:44

through historical documents for him

6:46

looking for just the right

6:48

shipwreck and then he

6:50

found the as as port nicholson

6:53

i think that would abandon back in two

6:55

thousand and eight was when i first heard him talk

6:57

about the port nicholson he was

7:00

really excited about this particular

7:02

shipwreck i mean you know is get pretty

7:04

excited when you sign any new rak like

7:06

he just loves the south so he's always

7:08

just really enthusiastic about it and

7:11

but this one i remember him being like this

7:13

could be like the big one i think he i

7:15

think you may use that phrase the enough that's pretty

7:17

classic visitors

7:18

the underlying go

7:20

the port nicholson was british cargo

7:22

ship there was torpedoed by a german

7:24

submarine and sank at the height

7:26

of world war two

7:29

based on historical context and

7:31

documentation greg estimated

7:33

that this ship was carrying seventy

7:36

tons of platinum and around

7:38

ten tons of bowling on

7:40

in the form of ingots or

7:43

gold bars basically

7:45

the total would be worth approximately

7:47

four billion us dollars

7:49

not million billion

7:52

they certainly seemed like a big one

7:55

that filed the paperwork to secure the rights

7:57

for the shipwreck and then he

7:59

put out a press really this was the drum

8:01

up interest in the project mainly

8:03

for the purpose of securing investors

8:06

my brother called me and told me

8:08

the investment opportunity with

8:11

see hunters and the port nicholson

8:13

the treasure

8:14

the needed to raise money

8:16

the treasure hunt he would need a ship

8:18

highly technical equipment and he'd

8:20

have to hire a crew

8:22

though he turned to the people of his town

8:25

of people of gorham

8:26

including soothing gallagher who

8:28

grew up and gorham

8:30

the documentation i have has everything

8:32

list that as far as silver

8:34

in boy yeah innocence

8:36

ignites several like now i'm

8:39

literally listed out in the billions

8:41

of dollars saying this is what's on the ship

8:44

sell it was presented as billions

8:46

and billions of dollars just sitting there waiting

8:48

for him to bring it up in we all share and

8:51

the issue then treasure hunting didn't seem

8:53

all that far fetched she'd actually

8:56

sat next to a man on a plane once

8:58

who got rich by salvaging a spanish

9:00

separate what really helped

9:02

greg brooks get the people of gore i'm onboard

9:05

to invest was the family that

9:07

he partnered up there they were trusted

9:09

quorum locals

9:11

one hundred percent trustworthy and

9:14

that's why i took a drive up and brantley

9:16

checkbook

9:20

and to dominate there wasn't after meeting

9:22

at a lazy boy store and nearby scarborough

9:25

main the pitch was relatively

9:27

simple greg brooks was selling

9:29

shares selling his company once the

9:31

treasure was recovered the investors would

9:33

get a portion of the spoils

9:36

the potential return on investment was

9:38

huge the ten thousand dollar

9:40

by and could easily turn into

9:42

hundreds of thousands of dollars or

9:44

even a million even

9:46

said the whole thing felt like an exclusive

9:49

inside hip that we've been shared

9:51

with gore i'm locals

9:53

investors would even have to sign and

9:55

those are agreements they

9:57

there is a booklet that was

9:59

to be looked at only there

10:02

and not to be taken out of the building every

10:04

piece is do not copy the satellite it was

10:06

the camorra for the family so

10:08

it did feel exclusive innocent like oh

10:11

whisper

10:11

because we've been invited to this

10:13

meeting or a we the for special because

10:16

they're eleven

10:16

the landing invest in the shore

10:18

say

10:20

the booklet season is referring to is the investor

10:22

packet

10:23

the investor packet claimed that the reason

10:25

greg brooks believe that there was treasure

10:27

on the port nicholson was simply

10:29

a matter of history during

10:32

world war two england started

10:34

shipping valuables to canada and

10:36

the us for safekeeping

10:39

having my chance

10:40

then there's a very plausible story

10:42

it's not implausible they were doing and nineteen

10:44

forty specially england was are

10:46

afraid that germany was going on bathed them started

10:48

some stuff to canada follow their

10:50

valuable stuff so they wouldn't lose their famous

10:53

historical relics and they were seven

10:55

gold about called the or edinburgh

10:57

know south and conboy and

10:59

she went down with items ago

11:01

right around the time that the port nicholson

11:04

said edinburgh

11:06

a very similar ship sank as well

11:09

then when that ship with salvage

11:10

they found around four hundred and

11:12

sixty five gold bars on

11:14

board

11:15

so many people gonna win and for fi

11:17

styles and some ten thousand and forty some

11:20

at five hundred thousand so

11:22

it's all across the the amount of money

11:24

and in as a guy of the street twenty minutes you put

11:26

in seventy thousand dollars and

11:30

it wasn't presented as a

11:32

if we find it was presented as the know

11:34

where it is we're gonna find it so

11:37

it was presented as very

11:39

low failure rate is any

11:42

other investors were barely able to scrape

11:44

the money together these were not

11:46

business executives these were just regular

11:49

citizens of forum another

11:51

investor gary o's are put in

11:53

forty two thousand dollars i

11:55

actually went in with them to

11:57

very good friends may

11:59

in and

11:59

groups were made up of ten

12:02

twelve fifteen people there was

12:04

couple lunch ladies acorn high school who

12:06

had basically you know you

12:09

know to speak of

12:13

how much money to do and best i invested

12:16

ten thousand dollars i'm

12:18

always the amount that you were expecting as return

12:20

on that investment

12:22

i think it will like

12:23

i'm a half million dollars

12:25

the rate of return

12:27

was suits and

12:30

i i don't think out millions that far off

12:32

that said he knew exactly where the treasure

12:35

with

12:35

okay that an all he needed was enough

12:37

money to put together salvaging tion

12:40

to go retrieve that

12:42

the investor packet estimated that once

12:44

they had all the equipment for the mission

12:47

the project would be completed within thirty

12:49

days

12:50

i two thousand nine

12:51

greg had raised five million dollars

12:53

for the past that he found a ship

12:55

the needed some repairs and named it

12:57

the see hunter the

12:59

summer of two thousand nine the see hunter

13:02

tickets first trip out to the port nicholson

13:04

rap site

13:13

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16:18

greg

16:26

greg successfully raised five million

16:28

dollars by two thousand nine he

16:30

persists and own ship down and louisiana

16:33

fix the that brought it back to boston harbor

16:35

and hired a crew

16:37

the crew as a whole would

16:39

you some for sign of it and then we would have i

16:41

that up have some some be divided amongst the

16:43

crew

16:44

haven't we heard on his deck boss he

16:46

said the pay was love

16:48

there was worth it seven percent

16:50

four billion dollars

16:53

the gonna be life changing for him even

16:55

when split with the entire crew

16:57

although haven't won

16:58

there's a little worried about the crew when

17:00

he realized that he was by far

17:03

the most experienced person on board

17:05

when i was twenty five i get my campus

17:07

license and work lot of water

17:09

over sense which were brought

17:12

me to have branded venture

17:14

on a treasure hunt in my early forties

17:16

the port nicholson rak say is

17:18

about hundred miles out from boston

17:20

harbor it , about a day just

17:23

to get to the sites out there

17:25

in there middle of the ocean

17:26

it's very remote we

17:29

would lose any ability to make a cell

17:31

phone call i bought some had like about

17:33

two miles after that you will lose all ability to

17:35

text anymore you just a mom you're

17:37

on a different planet he do not have access

17:39

to the civilized world your of europe's

17:42

had sex with somebody else overcome the

17:44

health is no fire department out there is no

17:46

police departments your your own

17:48

government some spring

17:50

almost immediately the see hunter

17:52

encountered problems problems

17:54

as basic as anchoring the said

17:56

aka a stabilizing at above

17:59

the shipwreck that they could begin the

18:01

process of salvage

18:03

haven't knew that this job was going to come

18:05

with challenges

18:07

the challenges that it stack up surprisingly

18:10

quickly

18:11

like right off the bat they had

18:13

equipment failures

18:15

they're remote up

18:16

the vehicle or rl the just

18:18

couldn't withstand the deep sea

18:20

elements

18:21

then when we finally got to the point where we're going to the rv

18:24

stop we made a flight and

18:26

the same broke on the second

18:30

the even more concerning to kevin with

18:32

that greg seem to have no idea

18:34

where the treasure was located on

18:36

the set

18:37

pretty much told the beginning as a crew that

18:39

were just going up there to pick the stuff up your

18:42

pocket for nothing very know was there and

18:44

, i wasn't the case from day one when

18:47

we get out there is a malware were looking

18:49

for stuff we don't know where it is

18:51

the summer of two thousand nine was

18:53

a failure to see hunter have found

18:55

nothing they went back in the summer

18:57

of twenty ten but again

19:00

nothing

19:01

the mission that was posted

19:03

thirty days quickly

19:05

turned into years

19:07

greg claims the bad weather conditions

19:09

out at sea years ashley

19:12

the window for it salvage

19:14

was very small if i remember right they

19:16

would usually be gone for three or four days

19:18

because it took like a day of travel to get

19:20

there and that a day of traveled to get back

19:23

see you would need our weather window of like

19:25

three or four days of ideal

19:27

weather to actually do

19:29

the salvage

19:30

it's not like you can salvage every single day

19:33

of the or or even most is like

19:35

say the caribbean

19:37

but northern as

19:38

the ocean where the wires bitter cold

19:40

and the currents are strong

19:42

they can only salvage in the spring and summer months

19:45

but as a mission land on greg

19:48

bernie and to invest their money there

19:50

ship maintenance fuel costs

19:52

and cruz salaries in fact

19:54

both greg's wife and daughter ashley

19:57

were on the payroll and all of this was

19:59

paid for

19:59

using at five million dollars from

20:02

investors

20:03

investors who were not happy

20:05

that the mission was taking this long

20:07

excuse me miss lee was oh the seas

20:10

or ruff we can't allow the

20:11

the ruff we can't allow that happened for months

20:15

i mean how do you counter that like if they're

20:17

rough they're had this big shift that

20:19

was meant to be in a seat

20:21

the hunters problems only intensified

20:24

at one point greg left

20:26

entire crew gao but then later

20:28

we hired them there was a star

20:30

higher on the ship close to the fuel tanks

20:33

they were able to put it out before the ship was destroyed

20:36

haven't actually quit at one point because

20:38

he was so fed up with the inexperienced

20:41

crew that crag had hired he

20:43

later rejoined the mission the

20:45

real hold up seemed to be the equipment

20:48

i'm constantly breaking down haven't

20:51

said that the recovery equipment grad purchased

20:54

was just not me

20:55

need for the harsh deep sea environment

20:58

the years dragged on in

21:00

two thousand and eleven the see hunter finally

21:02

recovered something from the port nicholson

21:05

found a compass a brac

21:08

and a fire extinguisher no

21:10

platinum no gold

21:13

greg's response was always that they just

21:15

needed

21:15

brave more invest their money

21:17

every time he came back to calling it

21:20

would that's where was the same old story we need more

21:22

investors me more investors

21:24

they just didn't have enough money like all

21:26

the equipment or they had was not the state

21:28

of the art stuff that they would need for rak like

21:30

that's and my dad was like always trying

21:32

to like raise more money to get the equipment but it was hard

21:34

is nothing was happening more time with going on he

21:36

was very frustrated at one

21:38

point greg raised additional funding

21:41

to purchase a submarine but the

21:43

submarine was

21:43

old and leaky and they

21:45

were never actually able to use it by

21:48

two thousand and twelve three years

21:50

after that original investment meaning that

21:52

the lazy boy store no

21:54

treasure had been found

21:58

gary owes her who had invest

21:59

the forty two thousand dollars into the project

22:02

started to think that grad wasn't telling

22:04

the truth he says i yeah we're

22:07

out there and we tried drop in a tomb still

22:09

were being thrown around and they in i

22:11

blogged on and look at the conditions

22:13

of the water in to call that time

22:16

they went bad at all

22:18

and then in twenty twelve despite the fact

22:20

that the sea hunt

22:21

they had not found or even

22:23

seen any treasure at all

22:26

the port nicholson rak site greg

22:28

put out a press release the

22:30

headline read three billion

22:32

dollar world war two shipwreck

22:34

located in boston harbors backyard

22:37

shortly after cbs ran the story

22:40

the also picked up by btc

22:42

reuters daily mail in new york post

22:45

a booties two hundred foot salvage

22:47

ship see hunter greg brooks

22:49

calls himself a treasure hunter extraordinary

22:53

for are you searching for were not searching

22:55

for anything we found

22:56

three billion dollars worth of platinum

22:59

in another interview grand said

23:01

he had all but seen the treasure

23:03

at the wreck site so how

23:06

have you been able to go down and check out what's

23:08

what's on this sunken ship

23:09

then we we sat down our remote operated

23:12

vehicle and we have seen trap

23:14

as oil shape in gets em back

23:16

in nineteen forty two anything that will strap

23:18

is oil shape was precious metals

23:21

nowadays they they do put other metals

23:23

like that that back in nineteen forty

23:25

two they did

23:26

the think that platinum

23:27

it sure looks like

23:29

from the press greg was able to secure

23:32

more investors bringing

23:34

hotel amount of invest your money to

23:36

ten million dollars

23:38

see hunter return to the wreck site six

23:40

more times during the summer of twenty twelve

23:43

still they weren't able to bring anything

23:45

up except a box of rusty hatchet

23:49

five grand actually looking for treasure

23:51

with he just enjoying the hunt

23:54

if grant really believe that there was billions

23:56

of dollars of treasure on that shit

23:59

why wouldn't you

23:59

the right equipment from the beginning

24:02

it's almost as if he didn't want

24:04

to get down into that ship to see

24:06

what was in it

24:08

in twenty thirteen a wealthy investor

24:10

who had sent two hundred thousand dollars

24:12

into the project offered to

24:14

buy grayed out of the salvage emission

24:17

enraged that

24:20

there was no way he was letting the port nickel

24:22

and project out of his grass the

24:26

way the gary owes her describes crag

24:28

during this time makes it sound like

24:30

he was coming unhinged desperately

24:32

trying to keep his crew and

24:34

investors from abandoning the mission

24:37

and turning on him

24:38

there he remembers a particularly disturbing

24:41

lunch with grads around this time

24:43

craig told a story that they

24:46

had an ingot right to the surface

24:48

a golding it which is worth about i think

24:51

the hundred and fifty thousand dollars like that

24:53

the says and we had it right there and we dropped

24:56

him

24:57

and i said you know agree

24:59

you shouldn't ever tell a story in because

25:01

cresswell guys who go

25:03

fishing for blake price fish when

25:06

they give us the sunlight because the nets you

25:10

tell me you bring and he understands go and

25:12

get up in a don't have that's available

25:15

in , some kaczynskis applause ago

25:18

that story

25:19

greg told carry owes or said

25:22

he had found a gold in get on

25:24

the porch of and and then dropped it

25:26

accidentally back into the ocean

25:28

when he was trying to point to the surface

25:30

gary new the story was totally

25:33

made up and later greg even

25:35

admitted even admitted had not found a gold

25:37

bar in the ocean

25:39

when i asked kevin about this they told

25:41

me that greg had purchased a fake

25:44

gold bar with the plan to

25:46

film a crew member pauline

25:48

it up out of the water making

25:50

it seem as if

25:51

had come from the port nicholson

25:53

rak was there any part of the gold bar

25:55

story that your heard from dragon

25:57

from gary that

25:59

while like we know

26:02

the gold us down there we just need people

26:04

to have a little more faith the that

26:06

i replanting had a wet why did he say

26:08

that he did that

26:09

he proposed to film that

26:12

faecal bar to get investor

26:14

month period

26:16

that with additional money

26:17

iran was trying to get more money

26:20

from what i can tell greg never actually

26:22

made a film of the fake gold bar

26:25

or if he did he never

26:27

note to investors but

26:29

somehow word still dot around

26:32

for a fleeting moment

26:33

do than was hopeful that the treasure was

26:35

insight

26:36

well i do know

26:38

there was a gold bar broad out

26:40

so and was like oh

26:42

a gold bar good maybe they're

26:44

getting close come to find out down

26:46

the road someone says stuff

26:48

and said oh that was a hoax they

26:51

base we used a gold bars a prop

26:53

said people's me as bad

26:56

the clock with again fucker tax

26:59

he had convinced his neighbors to hand

27:01

over their savings damn telling them

27:03

that this treasure with a sure thing and

27:05

that he could recover it in a matter

27:07

of months that it seemed like

27:09

crag would be satisfied to keep

27:12

going on fruitless missions

27:14

forever raising more and

27:16

more investor capital so

27:18

what's the first moment where you're like

27:21

something is not right here are you

27:23

believe it's when it's got a phone call

27:25

from paul lot

27:26

her great story and from them

27:29

as massachusetts and also an attorney

27:31

and so we spoke and thirty telling

27:34

me about craig's past

27:36

the suppose a treasure hunts where

27:38

they were not true nothing

27:41

came about they were lies how did

27:43

it make you feel to hear that a

27:45

agitated me to the point that

27:47

i was gonna push this as far as like that and

27:50

get his email there as there as

27:54

there's been filed a complaint with the securities

27:57

and exchange commission and they open an

27:59

investigation

27:59

integral to put

28:02

the isn't told me

28:03

hock up whole lot and

28:05

how has the real story and the port

28:07

nicholson

28:08

the treasure that he is seeking

28:11

is not under water the treasure

28:13

that they were seeking

28:15

the from idiot investors

28:17

i've paid to say that because some of these people i

28:19

met regularly very nice but i

28:21

wish they had done me due diligence

28:24

how is an attorney who lives on cape

28:26

cod it also a naval historian

28:29

and an ex and shipwrecks in

28:31

the atlantic ocean basically

28:33

paul told me he thinks there's no

28:36

way that the port nicholson has

28:38

the treasure on board number one

28:40

any ship the carried a treasure

28:42

like that would have been well known you

28:44

know any nation that transported

28:47

something like that their insurance companies

28:49

that insure them they would have

28:51

gone out immediately to

28:53

recoup their losses the

28:55

end had international salvaged

28:58

from searching for the rak is every other

29:00

rex had like be hms edinburg

29:02

what your second world war two will carry

29:04

treasure it was carrying a mere

29:06

five tons of gold

29:09

good point the country

29:11

last

29:11

billions of dollars of precious metals

29:13

at see they're likely would have been attempts

29:15

to recover it over the years

29:18

definitely paul said from a historical

29:21

perspective the amount of platinum

29:23

and grabbed brooks claimed was on

29:25

the ship is preposterous

29:28

there was never have to my knowledge than seventy

29:30

two times a platinum anywhere

29:33

on the surface of bureau

29:34

that any one location at any given time

29:37

i'm like fort knox platinum

29:40

is not a commodity that you

29:42

put the bag platinum i

29:44

think of the time and world war two the largest

29:46

producer platinum was russia i

29:48

believe they produced about thirteen fifteen times

29:50

a year the soon as came out

29:52

of the ground when to industrial production

29:55

so was a stockpile them so

29:57

the idea that they would have been seventy two tons

29:59

of

29:59

the

30:00

the one what have been the greatest

30:03

treasure the most valuable

30:05

thing on the face of europe time

30:07

though

30:08

why would anyone shepherd somewhere

30:10

in why would they put it on

30:12

a cramped steamer

30:14

have expert knowledge led him to

30:16

deduce pretty quickly that the idea

30:18

that there was treasure aboard the port nicholson

30:21

was very unlikely

30:24

he had actually seen the see hunter

30:26

the ship that greg used for the salvaging

30:28

mission back when it was docked at boston

30:31

harbor and two thousand and nine

30:33

paul said he took one look

30:35

the recovery equipment that grabbed her chest

30:38

and knew it was never going to work

30:40

it was comical because i was on the ship what

30:42

it was a nice boston they actually invited

30:45

the public to come out

30:46

then i went on board the ship and i laughed right the

30:48

space i said this is the stupidest thing in the world

30:51

would he debuts he bought all this

30:53

stuff

30:54

the make somebody that didn't know they go

30:56

the at whoop ah a ship with a crane

30:59

in iraq me that was completely

31:01

useless paul told me

31:03

that greg as greg as pass

31:05

when it comes to shipwrecks that on

31:08

multiple occasions spread claimed

31:10

he'd found treasure that later

31:12

turned out didn't exist and

31:15

even shipwrecks that didn't

31:17

exist how believes

31:19

that greg brooks is a con artist

31:22

that gray found a shipwreck that was close

31:24

to boston harbor and then convince

31:26

everyone that there was treasurer on it then

31:29

he drummed up a lot of excitement and press

31:31

for it harms investors

31:34

raised millions of dollars and then

31:36

purchased ramshackle equipment

31:39

hired an untrained crew and then use

31:41

their failure as an excuse to

31:43

continue raising more investor

31:45

money

31:46

how and drag also part

31:48

with a very trustworthy family

31:50

in order to make the whole thing seem legitimate

31:53

he was able to form this core organization

31:56

that looked to have all been legitimacy

32:00

to meet you would feel comfortable

32:03

right an attack on a random check

32:05

for twenty five thousand today but

32:07

this but this than a quarter of a million

32:09

in a couple years is a great investment like

32:12

bitcoin like investing in uniform

32:14

flats to be perfectly honest with

32:16

listening to paul it be easy to write this

32:18

whole thing off it seems

32:20

pretty clear that there is no treasure

32:22

on that chef but here's the thing

32:25

grand had had manifest

32:27

from

32:27

keane forty two that listed platinum

32:30

and

32:30

hold on board the ss

32:33

for nicholson it was right there

32:35

in the paperwork and

32:37

greg is about to present that document

32:40

and court

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35:24

and twenty fourteen credit brooks was legally

35:26

required to provide paperwork

35:28

selling that there was substantial evidence

35:31

of treasure on the port nicholson

35:33

the turns out

35:34

unbeknownst to investors

35:36

greg with an illegal but

35:37

all with england over the shipwreck

35:40

the british government came in and

35:42

claim that they own the

35:44

rack and so the

35:46

fight started in the federal court

35:49

a recording of a phone call i had

35:51

with david her an david

35:53

is the go to attorney for treasure

35:55

hunters

35:57

the even expert

35:57

in admiralty law or face

35:59

we the laws around shipwreck ownership

36:02

not uncommon for

36:04

a shipwreck to get mired in litigation

36:06

think about it the treasure is often

36:09

are covered in international waters

36:11

the ship itself has a country of origin

36:14

and that country often tries to claim

36:16

the treasure

36:17

you dominate

36:18

ladbrokes higher david her ran

36:20

the

36:21

the came up with a document

36:24

it has all kinds of stamps own

36:26

it top secret all the

36:28

us and had references

36:30

to platinum goals

36:33

an industrial diamonds i

36:35

looted that and realize

36:38

that if the poor nicholson than oh wow

36:40

moment that was gonna be a incredibly

36:43

incredibly valuable rec probably

36:46

more valuable than any other rex

36:48

of i had represented

36:50

then the british government got involved

36:52

claiming that say had the right to

36:54

any treasure that

36:55

pounds since the port nicholson was

36:58

apprenticeship

36:59

the british said they have never salvaged

37:01

shipwreck before because their records

37:03

show that there was no treasure on board

37:06

the ship had been carrying automobile

37:08

parts not platinum or gold

37:11

they were saying in our research

37:13

we don't show that all this stuff

37:15

was onboard as we got

37:17

into they actually

37:19

questioned whether the

37:21

document that we were using from

37:24

the national archives safe said

37:26

that they had not been able to find

37:28

that dot

37:29

litigation stall because crowd

37:32

didn't or cover any treasure

37:34

thou and twenty fourteen the admiralty

37:36

court demanded proof from bread

37:38

products that the treasure existed

37:40

at all greg's researcher

37:43

a man named add me she'll was the

37:45

one who found the port nicholson cargo

37:47

manifest the manifest that less

37:49

platinum and gold

37:51

he was a seasoned

37:52

the researcher and he said he found

37:54

the document at the national archives

37:57

wow david team called

37:59

the national

37:59

archive to verify the document

38:02

strangely the national archives

38:04

were unable to locate it

38:06

then add me she'll provided additional

38:08

documents

38:09

legitimize the cargo manifest

38:12

the whole story could have turned out differently

38:14

except for the fact that those documents

38:17

found their way to the desk of

38:19

david her and son

38:21

aaron

38:22

my son barron is my long

38:24

partner now but then he was associates

38:26

or farm their game and law

38:29

office says dad

38:31

the

38:32

we're not gonna be rich

38:34

that i said the oil will remain

38:37

then he said it's a fake acid

38:39

what's the fake and he said the

38:41

form that as all the gold and platinum

38:44

member industrial diamonds all

38:46

there is a fake documents

38:50

were at spratlys for odst clearly

38:53

the work as someone with extensive naval

38:55

and historical knowledge

38:56

but there and also have expertise

38:59

and historical documents and he

39:01

was able to tell that the document

39:03

itself was real but the cargo

39:06

list typed on it the one

39:08

that listed billions of dollars of precious

39:10

metals that had been added

39:13

later not in nineteen forty

39:15

two the document

39:17

the doctored there , no

39:19

original documentation listing precious

39:21

metals on the port nicholson it

39:23

was all made up

39:25

when david iran realize that document

39:28

was fake he told

39:29

grad rockets he click

39:31

david

39:32

give me a clear answer on if he believes

39:34

that greg always knew that the documents

39:36

were being forged

39:38

he said greg is a nice man

39:40

his reputation has been ruined over this

39:42

whole thing but he also

39:44

said that you have to be very careful

39:47

when you are in the treasure hunting

39:49

now even just the

39:51

glimmer of an idea

39:52

the treasure and captivate someone

39:55

beyond reason you know once

39:57

you start looking at something

39:59

there's what you're looking at a

40:02

fabulous fabulous treasure

40:04

commonsense tends to go

40:07

away lot some i'm afraid

40:09

to have called fi far as

40:11

how are you a call it oh yeah

40:13

have veto i mean people

40:16

can talk themselves into believing

40:18

just nearly anything

40:20

david iran stepped away but he

40:22

didn't form

40:23

the court of the falsified documents

40:26

and investigation was opened it

40:28

eventually find it's way to the f

40:30

b i

40:34

i desperately wanted to speak

40:36

the great books about this whole thing

40:38

we reached out multiple times but all

40:40

we got back with his voice message

40:43

is working class story

40:46

say that i'm a scam

40:48

of but i don't want to play that game

40:50

so like you have a good life

40:52

goodbye

40:54

i felt like i was hitting a wall

40:56

greg's daughter ashley told me she

40:58

would talk to him try to convince him to

41:00

speak with me

41:01

and then suddenly

41:03

i got the call i was waiting for

41:05

hi greg it's so

41:07

to meet you thank you so much for

41:10

talking with us for the podcast

41:12

that that's debatable what will stay

41:14

ahead gray fair

41:17

when i talked with greg it

41:19

the remote interview we only saw

41:21

each other over video

41:22

ashley his daughter was also they're just

41:25

offscreen helping him with the recording

41:27

equipment

41:28

like as white hair and a mustache

41:31

he looks rugged how you'd expect amanda

41:33

luck if he'd spent most of his working years

41:35

at sea

41:36

the conversation

41:37

when in neatly uncomfortable

41:40

i'm doing a story about grad

41:42

and i'm trying to sort out if he is a con

41:44

man if he knew about the fake documents

41:47

if there is any treasurer on that

41:50

shit the he claims that

41:52

he has been perpetually misunderstood

41:54

and kind of crucified by the media

41:57

and also by his neighbors

41:59

what

41:59

the biggest hurdles from your perspective

42:02

of actually been able to get down there

42:04

and see what was on the show

42:06

the arrow the remote operated

42:09

vehicle wasn't strong enough for that

42:11

currents that current was so for

42:13

five north korea it didn't

42:15

have enough power walk he was

42:18

too much current the weather was

42:20

bad all kinds of things happen

42:23

and there's nothing we can do to control that

42:25

so we need a work class are always

42:28

in always world class i will these anywhere

42:31

between to win four million dollars

42:33

why didn't you know that you

42:35

that the other are be going into this

42:38

the beginning

42:39

i did the idea that as

42:41

i stated that many times

42:44

but you're only allowed to

42:46

raise five million dollars by

42:48

law

42:49

that's true that you're only allowed to raise five

42:51

million dollars for a salvaging mess and

42:53

per calendar year

42:55

when all he weighs ten million dollars

42:58

but the argument that you don't have

43:00

enough money to buy the equipment that will actually

43:02

work for the mission so you buy subpar

43:05

equipment instead you just never

43:07

going to work

43:08

that argument doesn't make any sense to me

43:10

i've heard a similar complaints

43:13

multiple people have told me that it was

43:15

presented to them and they say

43:17

in the words sure deal

43:19

or sure thing

43:21

for years and i

43:23

think that that's where

43:26

people fouts do

43:28

a lotta people invested money

43:30

thinking that

43:32

there was no question

43:34

they would have a return on investment and so

43:36

did you ever pitch this to investors who

43:38

as as sir dealers or thing

43:41

no

43:42

that's something i don't do i

43:44

, say that i believe in it ninety

43:46

nine percent is a one percent

43:48

chance that it's not dad that the

43:50

government will take it away from must bought

43:53

these types of things but ninety things

43:55

but i believe that it's on

43:57

the and i still believe this argument

43:59

i asked about the falsified documents

44:02

he claimed that he was tricked along with

44:04

everyone else he said it

44:06

as researcher admission

44:08

he's the one to blame

44:10

id

44:11

he lied to

44:13

he he do

44:15

he went out to try to self

44:17

taught a huge shia so he could have some money

44:20

well he didn't tell us that but

44:22

i know the guy that he tried to solid to

44:25

and , guy told me so sad that

44:27

you know that's what he did so

44:29

the guy that was gonna buy it wanted

44:31

more information more positive

44:34

information so positive had supplied

44:36

it to him and told everybody that i'd

44:38

told them they do

44:40

greg told me that at me she was

44:42

hard up for cash and he wanted to sell

44:44

his share in the port nicholson project

44:47

to quick

44:47

the recoup is many

44:49

though he faked the documents to

44:51

try to entice the buyer we

44:55

reach out to add michelle and he declined

44:57

to do an interview

44:59

but he sent an email and this is what he said

45:01

quote greg is and always

45:04

has been has complete on i

45:06

know that now more than ever from his

45:08

early days and he

45:09

the supposedly looking for his silver bars

45:12

the florida to massachusetts to

45:14

main each of the project the here

45:16

to provide finances so that he could

45:18

live off the investor dollars

45:20

he added at the end quote gregg

45:23

said to me and captain gary esper

45:25

and i quote

45:27

add you don't have to

45:28

we recovered treasure

45:30

the make a living at this business

45:32

when in your mind

45:34

that it really start to sort of take a turn

45:36

for the worse wouldn't miss

45:38

your dream of him was wearing was wire

45:41

because wire knew what was going to cause

45:43

i mean you'd have to be an idiot not too

45:46

in two thousand and

45:47

teen add me she started working

45:49

with the f b i he admitted

45:51

that he had falsified the documents

45:53

and said that greg was the one who told

45:56

him to do it in november

45:58

twenty fourteen he met at

46:00

home depot parking lot and

46:02

was wearing a wire he tried to get

46:04

greg to admit that he knew about the documents

46:07

but greg maintained that he did not know

46:10

the f b i obtained a search warrant for

46:12

greg's house and gorham

46:14

in december third twenty fourteen

46:16

they raided his

46:18

they showed up at my door they had automatic

46:21

weapons aimed at my head pistols

46:23

a map at my had all kinds

46:25

of stuff in of isis

46:27

a isis had to do is ask me i would

46:29

again be what you want but no you

46:31

come any a like big you know gestapo

46:35

the and the judge who sign

46:36

the search warrant order that the see hunters

46:39

stop salvaging the rak

46:41

the hunters was banned from ever trying

46:43

to salvage the port nicholson again

46:46

that also lost his ship the see

46:48

hunter at auction because he failed

46:51

to pay boston harbor

46:52

the storage of the show

46:54

it was decided that there wasn't enough

46:56

evidence

46:57

to support the claim of treasure on

46:59

the port nicholson

47:01

the the british government dropped their claim

47:03

to the rap all the investigation

47:05

settled out as well

47:07

merkley greg hadn't broken any

47:09

laws there was a disclaimer

47:12

on page one hundred and six of the investor

47:14

packet that specifically stated

47:16

all the rest

47:17

involved was shipwreck salvaging

47:19

including the chance that they would

47:21

never

47:22

cover any treasure at all

47:24

and and knowledge meant that historical

47:26

documents can be inaccurate

47:29

yeah p i walked away you

47:31

, sauce i have

47:33

nothing to worry about on any of that stuff

47:36

i mean cause are you know went to the grand

47:38

jury three times and

47:40

grand jury threw it out loud

47:42

the grand jury would can indeed a

47:44

ham sandwich for but they

47:46

didn't they didn't indict me because

47:48

it was nothing to indict me on

47:51

we attempted to speak with the f b i

47:53

the se

47:54

the and the inspector general's office

47:57

they'll declined to comment

47:59

none of

47:59

investors ever got their money back

48:02

the this day greg refutes the claim

48:05

that he was in it for the money

48:07

then it is true that he does not live

48:09

a lavish lifestyle like

48:11

a lot of people and gorham he lives

48:14

a modestly

48:15

if i was a crook why didn't i take some

48:17

of that investment money and put it

48:19

away and live off of that

48:21

i did when we we're not of money we

48:24

ran out of money i mean great nothing

48:27

and i did take a dog that was

48:29

of mine from this

48:31

drag is retired from salvaging and

48:33

keeps more to himself these days

48:35

that he's still think

48:37

there is treasure on the port nicholson

48:40

if i live long enough i'm gonna

48:42

go back out there and recovery and

48:44

then everybody the sad air and said

48:46

that than they can all of you know they

48:48

all why i'm sorry because if

48:50

you give somebody you know fifty

48:52

million dollars they gonna be

48:55

gonna little bit nicer to yeah

48:57

after everything

48:59

greg still holds onto the claim that

49:01

seven hundred feet below the ocean the surface

49:04

there is a ship with about four billion

49:06

dollars worth of precious metals

49:09

i honestly could not tell

49:11

if

49:11

the really believe this or

49:13

if he is just so committed

49:16

to the time

49:17

kevin about it

49:19

i don't know if you have an opinion on this or it if

49:21

you even wanna actually

49:24

hey i'm so curious you

49:27

know if current brooks himself

49:29

the leaves are , at one time

49:31

or it seem to believe at some point that

49:33

there is treasure down their colors

49:36

appeared on our our knows

49:39

a first for as are allowed to go in and in

49:41

to read books we would like i think like does

49:44

do i believe it was a scam shop

49:47

tarred with his treasure and about possible

49:49

but no one's ever gonna know and

49:52

you'll look in there and i think that's why some people go back

49:54

is they want to know once a thrall as

49:56

or something and

49:58

even know kevin knows

49:59

the cargo

50:00

the fast was faked and even though

50:02

he believes that the

50:04

the whole port nicholson project was

50:06

a con

50:07

he still thinks it's past

50:09

all that there's treasure on the port

50:11

nicholson the books

50:13

created an entire career for himself

50:16

out of looking for treasure

50:19

that he never found any

50:21

didn't really seem to matter

50:23

the wrong he could convince people that there might

50:26

be treasure

50:27

you could live out his dream of been a treasure hunter

50:30

release for a while david

50:32

around again

50:33

i think that everybody

50:36

has to have a dream if you saw

50:38

the movie goonies that's the

50:40

drink that's what drain and

50:42

national treasure and all these movies

50:45

there's that dream it's own

50:48

dreams of buried treasure

50:50

and and all this and i think

50:52

everybody every kid growing up

50:54

at least the ones that i grew up

50:56

with and certainly talking about

50:59

the a you have those

51:01

kind of of dreams

51:03

but yeah a majority of the

51:05

big treasure still have not been found

51:08

here's the thing we still don't

51:10

know for

51:11

sure if there is treasure on the

51:13

fort nicholson and unless

51:15

someone makes their way down to the rack

51:17

and salvages as we might never know

51:20

and in that unknowing lies and

51:22

opportunities an opportunity

51:24

to imagine and hope and

51:26

dream until you are consumed

51:37

internet is a cast original podcast

51:40

it is least i mean hannah smith along

51:43

with pacer eaten natalie gregory

51:45

kate maze and sarah douglas

51:47

holland thompson is or executive producer

51:50

anton dodi is our editor the

51:52

show is mixed and matched

51:53

i met through off our cover art

51:56

is by arvin leave the ending

51:58

credits song is what for that guy it

52:00

from the album's shallow

52:02

the you have any suggestions for the show

52:04

oh and opportunists that you want us to cover

52:06

you can email us at the opportunist

52:08

a cast media dot com

52:24

if you're enjoying the opportunist third love

52:27

it

52:27

so much if you would take a moment though

52:30

to wherever you listen

52:31

and subscribe to the show

52:34

it also says a lot if he can rate

52:36

and the view that show specifically on

52:38

apple pie cat it really

52:40

does help the south so thank you so so

52:43

much mediums

52:45

clairvoyance psychics you

52:47

can't turn on the tv these days without seeing

52:50

a reality show where some self proclaimed

52:52

communicator is conversing with that

52:54

when are you believe in and or not like

52:57

it's constitute a multimillion dollar industry

52:59

around the world and most of the

53:01

time they're simply frauds

53:03

where did all this come from well it

53:06

all began with two young sisters

53:07

from the eighteen forties indicate

53:10

and madden hawks and when is this a

53:12

scoundrel histories forgotten as

53:15

we learn all about these fox sisters the

53:17

watches they took watches simple trying to scare

53:20

them hundred convincing hundred entire world

53:22

that they see dead people