0:00

The.

0:08

Hello this is Rob

0:10

welcome to the to the 8th

0:12

anniversary Q&A special for Orpheus Protocol. Oh

0:14

my god, that that felt weird. My back

0:16

weird. My back little

0:18

that a little bit. got

0:20

some yeah, we've got

0:23

some questions from the

0:25

listeners. some We've got some

0:27

friends gathered around the

0:29

virtual table to discuss

0:31

them. them. Sending our

0:33

most positive vibes to who

0:35

usually hosts these these, uh, filming a

0:37

a movie filming a movie a

0:39

movie right now be be

0:41

doing this am not supposed supposed

0:44

to talk about it

0:46

at all yet, but like

0:48

he sent me a

0:50

sent me a little clip from

0:52

the set of the actors doing

0:54

a thing a it's really good. good. It'll

0:56

be a very a very fun one when it

0:58

comes it comes out. I'll talk

1:00

about it a lot, I'm sure. in

1:03

on filling in on hosting the is

1:05

the one, the person the the

1:07

person we haven't heard from in

1:09

like a zillion months on

1:12

the main feed, feed. Alan! Hi! Yeah, it's

1:14

Yeah, it's almost like my life

1:16

has been a a crazy tornado

1:18

of insanity, but a nightmare. Um, yeah, being an

1:20

adult, man. Weird. being an

1:22

adult, man. up with this shit? You really

1:24

who, who came up with

1:27

this shit? You really gotta

1:29

wonder. Do you remember when

1:31

we wanted this? we Like

1:33

when we were little we were

1:35

like, oh, I can't wait

1:37

to grow to grow up. Yeah, a Mugs

1:39

game, really, really, when it comes

1:41

down to it. yes, Alan

1:43

will be hosting and asking

1:45

the questions the I am joined

1:47

by a very commonly very commonly

1:49

new messages group chat on Nick, and -

1:52

Nick, and crew, the

1:54

Future Crew, the core main folks.

1:56

Yeah, that come up.

1:58

come up. Yeah. everybody. Hi.

2:01

How are you all doing? Share an

2:03

amusing ice-breaking anecdote if you don't mind

2:05

each of you. Uh, okay. Hi, I'm

2:07

Nick. You should know who I am

2:09

if you're listening to this. This week,

2:11

a shard of wisdom tooth that I

2:14

got removed 12 years ago forced its

2:16

way out of my gums while I

2:18

was eating Thanksgiving dinner and now I

2:20

have a piece of tooth. Ooh. Can

2:22

I have it? I speak an anecdote.

2:24

Yeah, that's not very good. Is like,

2:27

I like to take pieces of people's

2:29

teeth. It doesn't need to be great

2:31

looking. I have a collection of just

2:33

bone fragments and scraps that will get

2:35

used for some sort of project eventually.

2:37

Like, I'm at a point in life

2:40

where I have a box for good

2:42

bones. Maybe, I'll have to weigh the

2:44

friend points versus the risk of ritual.

2:46

Yeah. And we'll get back to you

2:48

on that. Also, that's the second time

2:50

in my life that's happened. And the

2:53

last time I told the dentist about

2:55

that, they went, huh. So, you know,

2:57

that's cool. Yeah. Yeah. I guess, I

2:59

guess that's, you know, my little fun

3:01

anecdote is that I'm at a point

3:03

in life where I have multiple different

3:05

boxes of bones. Yeah. Yeah. You know,

3:08

a lot of a lot of people

3:10

talk a lot of people talk a

3:12

big game a big game about wanting

3:14

a goth Goth GAF. GAF. GAF. GAF.

3:16

GAF. You got to understand what you're

3:18

signing up for, and unlike these posers,

3:21

I am strong. Yeah, it's, yeah, you

3:23

and Hudson going strong. It's boxes of

3:25

bones, bags of teeth, a dead bird

3:27

in a paper bag in the freezer

3:29

that I still haven't figured out what

3:31

to do with. It's true. It's been

3:34

there a lot. Literally dead dove do

3:36

not eat. Yeah, it is a, it's

3:38

not a dove. I forgot exactly what

3:40

it is. I want to say it's

3:42

a housefinch. A friend found it and

3:44

asked if I wanted it and I

3:47

said sure why not? You got to

3:49

wait for the ants to wake back

3:51

up after the cold months so that

3:53

they can clean it for you? Yeah,

3:55

I mostly got to figure out if

3:57

I want the bones out of it.

4:00

And if so, how gonna do that.

4:02

I mean I guess the actual news

4:04

is that we have a new cat.

4:06

Yeah well and since the last Q&A.

4:08

Well since the last Q&A yeah two

4:10

new cats. And Nick has at least

4:13

one. Yeah I got a new cat

4:15

too. Yeah the cat sends us up

4:17

the Orpheus HQs going crazy. Yeah. Alan

4:19

do you have a cat yet? No

4:21

I'm I'm very seriously considering it. You

4:24

can have what are mine. I was,

4:26

I was raised in a dog household.

4:28

My parents both being quite allergic to

4:31

cats, I'm a little allergic to cats,

4:33

but my parents are like really allergic.

4:35

So I grew up with some misconceptions

4:37

about like how much friendlier dogs were

4:40

and how much more loyal and blah

4:42

blah blah. I'm like, I'm super cat-pilled

4:44

now. Almost no one actually has time

4:46

to be a good dog parent. They

4:49

need so much attention all the time.

4:51

Cats are so much more chill. I'm

4:53

a big fan of them now. Yeah,

4:55

also in our experience you don't decide

4:57

you're getting a cat. A cat is

5:00

giving to you. Yeah, the cat chooses

5:02

you. I mean, that's what's happened with

5:04

Jonesy and now Grimalkin. Yep. Who we've

5:06

had for a little over a week.

5:09

Yep. Just found on the side of

5:11

the road scooped her up. She lives

5:13

with us now. She was much too

5:15

small to be out by herself, much

5:18

less out by herself in an area

5:20

that has enormous numbers of coyotes every

5:22

night. Yeah, the the hogs have kind

5:24

of moved on. I think has

5:27

annoyed them. Yeah, I don't think

5:29

we're getting the wild hogs anymore.

5:32

But uh, still a shit ton

5:34

of coyotes and... They don't care

5:36

what people do. Yeah. Fun fact,

5:38

coyotes are the only canine species

5:40

that are increasing in population instead

5:43

of decreasing, because they actually do

5:45

really well in human populated areas.

5:47

Yeah, they're mega adaptable. Like, they're

5:49

gonna take the fuck over. But

5:52

yeah, lots of lots of cats.

5:54

Anyway, Dan, I mean, you've still

5:56

got Butch and he's he's great.

5:58

His complaint about there not being

6:00

enough birds and the ones that

6:03

I are too fast has been

6:05

noted. Yeah he is still my

6:07

only cat so I have maintained

6:09

cat parody this this past year.

6:11

Cat neutral 2024. Yeah things have

6:14

been quiet for me. I I

6:16

guess I could say that I

6:18

went to a couple of different

6:21

Halloween parties as Oscar the Grouch

6:23

and that was pretty good. Oh,

6:25

yeah. That mental image gives me

6:27

joy. Yeah. My safety pinned on

6:29

eyes and eyebrows only last a

6:31

little while as I didn't realize

6:33

that I should probably use something

6:35

better than just a glue stick

6:37

to attach everything together. But next

6:39

year, when I go as, I

6:41

guess, Grover. or Elmo and

6:43

I can do something similar. I'll

6:45

have a better like craft arts

6:47

and craft solution. You've trained for

6:50

this. You can just work your

6:52

way through the cast and then

6:54

create a Photoshop Sesame Street updating

6:56

photo every year. I did. I

6:58

mean, that could be your holiday

7:00

card. Yeah. Ellen, Big Bird would

7:02

be somewhat appropriate. Because I used

7:04

to play a... Yeah, that's true.

7:07

A wear raven in larp. and

7:09

always wore yellow and did not

7:11

make that connection until somebody else

7:13

said oh yeah big bird you're

7:15

quite tall yes so well yeah

7:17

normally you would be the tall

7:19

one on the call but again

7:21

we brought Allen in so oh

7:24

I thought it was me oops

7:26

oh yeah no I thought I

7:28

was the tall one canonically yeah

7:30

seven foot seven yeah I'm not

7:32

five four seven three hundred and

7:34

seventy eight pounds of pure muscle

7:36

yeah in case the listeners were

7:39

wondering yeah That's supposed to be

7:41

the big reveal for the hell

7:43

in the cell match next week,

7:45

but okay, I guess we're doing

7:47

that now. My build height and

7:49

weight were already listed. Don't worry.

7:51

By God, they brought their box

7:53

of bones. Well, a little's opponent

7:56

is a whale, so not big

7:58

yeah it's a cruiser way not

8:00

not that big that's like that's

8:02

featherweight stuff like yeah I love

8:04

it all right so I guess

8:06

we can get started with question

8:08

Yeah, I feel like the shit

8:10

is shot, the ice is broken.

8:13

All right, so our first question,

8:15

um, comes from Richard Prescott Jr.

8:17

and it's to all y'all, minus

8:19

me. Seeing as how we have

8:21

almost entirely closed the future art

8:23

chapter, is there anything that you

8:25

would hope to accomplish slash expand

8:28

upon slash dig deeper into with

8:30

your characters and MPCs that just

8:32

didn't come up, or was left

8:34

as a road not traveled by

8:36

chance of the dice rolls or

8:38

player group choices? I can think

8:40

of two immediately. I can go

8:42

into one of them while people

8:45

think, if we like. This is

8:47

like super-spolarific fine, right? Yeah, up

8:49

to present, sure. Okay, dope. Well,

8:51

I don't know anything about anything

8:53

at this point. Hope to accomplish

8:55

is a little bit of the

8:57

wrong phrasing, but like, I am

8:59

very curious about how things would

9:02

have been if there wasn't a

9:04

zombie apocalypse. Oh, yeah. Maybe that's

9:06

a little earlier than this year,

9:08

but like, that's the most recent

9:10

big example that bears on this

9:12

question, because like, the whole arc

9:14

was completely re-planned based on that.

9:17

I love how it went, but

9:19

I'm very, you know, I remain

9:21

interested or a little curious about

9:23

like, how things would have developed

9:25

in that leg of the future

9:27

story had things gone closer to

9:29

what I originally envisioned. Yeah, no

9:31

regrets. It was a blast having

9:34

everything just go to absolute shit.

9:36

So that was a lot of

9:38

fun. Yeah, I absolutely loved kicking

9:40

that sand castle together as a

9:42

group. That was very fun. I

9:44

would say for torque, no, actually.

9:46

Like I am super happy with

9:49

how that ended. I love that

9:51

I can just say, I'm like,

9:53

he ate the moon and that

9:55

means a lot and is also

9:57

confusing. we could just leave it

9:59

like that. Yeah. Like I'm really

10:01

happy with how that wrapped up.

10:03

It felt very poetic. The thing

10:06

that I do look forward to

10:08

seeing happen is I am super

10:10

curious about 733 and like her

10:12

adventures in the past, if she

10:14

or in the future, if she

10:16

comes to the past, what kind

10:18

of impact she'll have. Like I'm

10:20

just a 733 stand at this

10:23

point. So that part's really exciting

10:25

to me because I didn't plan

10:27

it at all. I didn't even

10:29

like have it in mind as

10:31

a thing that could happen, but

10:33

the players made such a convincing

10:35

case for it. They built up

10:38

such narrative momentum toward it and

10:40

and figured out how it could

10:42

work. That's exciting to me because

10:44

it's like a special treat. Like

10:46

I get to figure out how

10:48

to do a cool thing that

10:50

I never would have come up

10:52

with at all on my own.

10:55

Yeah, I'm super duper stoked for

10:57

her to come back just like

10:59

Mad Max aviator sunglasses grizzled badass

11:01

like with all sorts of hinted

11:03

backstory and stuff. Oh, yes, she

11:05

needs a theme song. I don't

11:07

know. She'll have one smoke machine.

11:09

Snow pyrotechnics the whole nine years.

11:12

Oh, walkout music. Okay, yeah. And

11:14

a theme song. All of it.

11:16

Yeah for me there's a lot

11:18

of there's a lot of interesting

11:20

areas that we certainly touched on

11:22

and looked at that given how

11:24

thoroughly the status quo has been

11:27

shaken up by the time we

11:29

leave the future arc like the

11:31

central power structures of the nightmare

11:33

empire of the Amaranth kingdom have

11:35

both been kind of ripped out

11:37

and then also the ghoul fleets

11:39

have maybe been sort of I

11:41

think that was mentioned in the

11:44

season finale that like more stuff

11:46

happens with them between the end

11:48

of the the arc and when

11:50

Kayla returns. like all the sort

11:52

of powers that be other than

11:54

the Fekundity are different than they

11:56

used to be. So seeing what

11:58

kind of world it will be

12:01

now that the major powers have

12:03

all had to completely change and

12:05

become something else I think would

12:07

be really interesting to see. Especially

12:09

just the nightmares I still sort

12:11

of have a soft spot for

12:13

the like world building that happened

12:16

around that and the people of

12:18

Sycamore like that's actually a big

12:20

question that I think we talked

12:22

about in the LLL of it

12:24

was like we don't really know

12:26

what happened to the people of

12:28

Sycamore who fled like did they

12:30

find others in the mountains? Is

12:33

there more of their sort of

12:35

culture? out there somewhere in North

12:37

America. We just don't know. And

12:39

it'd be interesting to find out

12:41

more of their stories, like the

12:43

stories of Basha and Pardo out

12:45

there. Well, Pardo anyway, whomp, uh,

12:48

Basha died. It's been, yeah, it's

12:50

been a billion years. But unfortunately,

12:52

like, on one hand, I think

12:54

you kind of have to leave

12:56

some of that untold to sort

12:58

of sell the itinerant nature of

13:00

Mitch's trip through the future. because

13:02

it's meant to be that like

13:05

we follow a hero on this

13:07

strange journey encountering all these different

13:09

cultures and people and stuff like

13:11

that. And then the other hand

13:13

of course is that the Orpheus

13:15

Protocol is long enough. So we

13:17

can't we can't scratch every corner.

13:19

We can't complete the map like

13:22

this is Castlevania or I would

13:24

die I guess before the story

13:26

ended. Those are for the Netflix

13:28

spin-off series. Yeah. That would go

13:30

great. Netflix respectfully handles people's properties.

13:32

Yep. Uh-huh. What about you? What

13:34

was left on the table? Anything?

13:37

Something you would have liked to

13:39

look at? I don't know. I

13:41

think I think I got most

13:43

of the stuff that I wanted

13:45

to do done. And anything else

13:47

was already said of, yeah, it'd

13:49

be interesting to see what we

13:51

would have done. and by we

13:54

I mean, Nick hadn't caused a

13:56

zombie apocalypse. Not sorry. Would be

13:58

interesting to see what happened in

14:00

the time that everyone was gone

14:02

to the time Kailar got back,

14:04

but yeah, you can only flesh

14:06

so much out before you're just,

14:08

you know, spending three years of

14:11

a podcast discussing one day in,

14:13

you know, in the media, and

14:15

it's not realistic to do that.

14:17

Alright, so next up, from Carby

14:19

and Nessie to Rob, what was

14:21

your favorite part of designing and

14:23

developing the system as it is,

14:26

and what was the most challenging

14:28

part? Okay, I think, though it's

14:30

hard to pick, because I do

14:32

really like doing game design, probably

14:34

one of the most fun parts

14:36

for designing the rules of the

14:38

Orpheus protocol. was hatching the idea

14:40

of and then doing that initial

14:43

whirlwind of putting it into sessions

14:45

to see how it would go

14:47

to develop the challenge system because

14:49

it just it felt like I

14:51

was mainlining the secret truth of

14:53

the universe there with like, oh,

14:55

this is how you do all

14:57

these different kinds of cinematic scenes

15:00

in a role-playing game in a

15:02

way that bogs them down a

15:04

bit less. and engages the rules

15:06

meaningfully but doesn't turn it into

15:08

a slog. And so like every

15:10

part of that, though it was

15:12

work, I was like, I know

15:15

for a fact that this is

15:17

work that's worth doing because like

15:19

what's going to be at the

15:21

end of this is a really

15:23

cool system. The most challenging part

15:25

was settling on the correct balance

15:27

between having rules that explain how

15:29

a situation would be adjudicated versus

15:32

having too many rules so it's

15:34

hard to remember what you do

15:36

and too many things to look

15:38

up. There was a constant push

15:40

and pull of encountering things in

15:42

play, realizing I... wanted there to

15:44

be a rule for it writing

15:47

that rule then realizing that now

15:49

there are too many we need

15:51

to find ways of folding things

15:53

into one another, or making the

15:55

hard decision that like, ah, like

15:57

just leave this up to directors

15:59

at their tables in the future,

16:01

like there's gonna have to be

16:04

some things that don't have like

16:06

a, an explicit rules case for

16:08

them, otherwise it's just too much.

16:10

And being able to judge, does

16:12

this truly need a bespoke rule

16:14

for an official ruling on it?

16:16

Or is it better to just

16:18

leave this alone and spend my

16:21

word count and complexity elsewhere? That

16:23

was definitely the most challenging part.

16:25

Well means. So open everybody. What

16:27

are some plot threads you don't

16:29

think you'll get a chance to

16:31

wrap up in the show, but

16:33

you'd like to? I will go

16:36

last on this one because my

16:38

answer is sneaky. Uh, first thing

16:40

that brings to mind for me,

16:42

when we're talking about like how

16:44

long the show is and how

16:46

you can't follow everyone's story, uh,

16:48

I don't know what Rob's plans

16:50

are, but I just have a,

16:53

a morbid curiosity about what's gonna

16:55

happen to 401, I'm not okay.

16:57

Uh, I wanna know how that

16:59

goes for them, because they're in

17:01

a real bad spot, and I

17:03

think it's worse than they know

17:05

it is. Actually, I know it's

17:07

worse than they know it is

17:10

because I've tried to explain that

17:12

to them and no one is

17:14

listening to me. Both in and

17:16

out of character, but yeah, I'm

17:18

really curious to see what happens

17:20

with that, if it does. See,

17:22

now I gotta think of a

17:25

new answer because I was also

17:27

gonna say for a one, I'm

17:29

not okay. success. Oh and a

17:31

lot of the stuff that comes

17:33

to mind for me I like

17:35

think about a little harder and

17:37

then realize oh that did kind

17:39

of come back around or oh

17:42

that's still kind of an open

17:44

question or like there's been so

17:46

much that I I feel like

17:48

like while I'm doing an LLL

17:50

I can be like oh I

17:52

wonder what happened there but like

17:54

looking at it from higher up

17:57

it's hard to think of like

17:59

Yeah, I guess my thought on

18:01

this is like it's kind of

18:03

still an open question to me

18:05

because the cosmology of Orifia exotic

18:07

and complicated enough that there's almost

18:09

no plot thread that I can't

18:11

bring up and make relevant and

18:14

weave into what's going on. The

18:16

question is what is worth the

18:18

time and what is worth the

18:20

focus of the story? And what's

18:22

cool about role-playing games is that

18:24

I don't actually fully know the

18:26

answer to that because what players

18:28

focus on actions they take choices

18:31

they make can vastly change how

18:33

I would rank these like open

18:35

questions in the plot and like

18:37

how important they are to answer

18:39

how satisfying they would be to

18:41

bring back. I'm finding out some

18:43

of like what the closing arcs

18:46

of the story are going to

18:48

be about also, which is always

18:50

fun. That was kind of my

18:52

thought with this too is like,

18:54

yes, there are a lot of

18:56

open threads, but we as players

18:58

can often pull on those threads,

19:00

and there's still some time left

19:03

to pull. It obviously is an

19:05

infinite time, and there are surely

19:07

things that are beyond our grasp

19:09

anymore that you know, we can't

19:11

summon to mind immediately. But I

19:13

think there are still a lot

19:15

of strings that we as a

19:17

cast can pull on and question

19:20

with each other and present each

19:22

other with and kind of go

19:24

from there. Yeah, my kind of

19:26

ongoing one, and I think this

19:28

isn't much of a spoiler, but

19:30

something that I've been thinking about

19:32

for a long time is really

19:35

just how Mitch is going to

19:37

react to the large number of

19:39

people with his face running around.

19:41

That's kind of been something I've

19:43

been wondering about since the first

19:45

Mitch clone appeared. And possibly like

19:47

some of his memories. Yeah, because

19:49

yeah, certainly the Mitch that we

19:52

followed in the first couple seasons

19:54

had memories of the. sort of

19:56

original recipe of all of them

19:58

but you definitely like a lot

20:00

of you were him. Yeah. Yep.

20:02

I've thought about that too of

20:04

when when when or if ret

20:06

ret and Mitch me Mitch has

20:09

the of the enemy now and

20:11

Retz run from that face and

20:13

Retz been hounded by that. So

20:15

I think it's going to be

20:17

a very interesting meeting when it

20:19

happens. Sure. Yeah. Speaking of hounds.

20:21

Is Foylon going to have enough

20:24

time to catch up on all

20:26

the media they've missed over the

20:28

last decade? Yeah. That's a question.

20:30

They know that they've got a

20:32

lot of stuff they want to.

20:34

They're going to learn about Game

20:36

of Thrones. You know, I think

20:38

there's still actually only one book

20:41

behind because of, uh, how long

20:43

it's taken him. Oh my God.

20:45

So I don't think he's actually

20:47

missed much in the way of

20:49

the books for a song of

20:51

Ice and Fire, but they will

20:53

have the show to learn about.

20:56

They will have the excitement and

20:58

then disappointment of the Star Wars

21:00

sequels. So much multiple Star Trek

21:02

shows. I guess since we only

21:04

got to 2017, there's only so

21:06

much, or I guess, 2018 now.

21:08

So, I think we're still confidently

21:10

say that The Last Jedi was

21:13

the final Star Wars film, you

21:15

know? Well, yeah. We have debated

21:17

whether or not Katz 2019 exists

21:19

in the Orpheus universe. And if

21:21

Katz 2019 doesn't exist, the rise

21:23

of Skywalker also doesn't exist. That's

21:25

when we appeared on the same

21:27

day. Yeah. Yeah. That was a

21:30

long weekend. The cursed double feature

21:32

that y'all watched right before the

21:34

pandemic. Yeah, that was a great

21:36

idea on our part. You know,

21:38

I can't really imagine an apocalyptic

21:40

world that doesn't occur after Cats

21:42

2019. Like I assume that's one

21:45

of the hair rolls. Yeah. I

21:47

do appreciate that murder bought ass

21:49

speculation. What about

21:51

my shows? Yeah. So many

21:54

shows. So next up, from

21:56

Gilded Growth, to everybody, who

21:59

has every favorite

22:01

villains been through the series.

22:03

Something about a bastard that

22:05

makes you love to hate

22:07

them. I've got a fast

22:09

answer and it's not one

22:11

because I like this. It's

22:13

one, it's the one that

22:15

has caused me the most

22:18

fear and that's the whistler.

22:20

Something about his, the way

22:22

he, the way Rob plays

22:24

him is actively, like it

22:26

hits the scary buttons in

22:28

Alan's brain that like, it

22:30

made me uncomfortable in a

22:32

good way the whole time

22:34

we were playing through the

22:36

Whistler's Ark. Like this is

22:38

bad, this is dangerous, get

22:40

away from this. Get away,

22:43

get away, run, run, run,

22:45

which... Plus now I think

22:47

it's fair to say that

22:49

he would make the prettiest

22:51

necklace out of any villain

22:53

in the series. I think

22:55

that would make sense Alan

22:57

because like the whistler in

22:59

my mind is sort of

23:01

just like Negorette Like the

23:03

Shadow Ret Scott Pilgrim style

23:05

would be very similar to

23:08

that So yeah, I could

23:10

see that for sure I

23:12

like camisots. I felt like

23:14

we were fighting. Almost we

23:16

like her too much to

23:18

keep her a villain. I

23:20

liked that that fight took

23:22

multiple episodes and really felt

23:24

like we were fighting the

23:26

stages of cell. Like it

23:28

made me feel cool because

23:30

I didn't die. That was

23:33

one of the most anime

23:35

fights. I had no regrets.

23:37

Blood, so much blood, all

23:39

blood everywhere is cool. Pierce

23:41

Kezek. Love you John. Like,

23:43

again, like, God, the show

23:45

would be so different if

23:47

we didn't have this person

23:49

who was in a protagonist

23:51

slot. causing so many problems

23:53

for everyone because like there's

23:55

a certain remove that most

23:57

antagonists are at whereas like

24:00

we are right up in

24:02

ground zero of messy emotional

24:04

damage that's causing giant problems

24:06

through the first two seasons.

24:08

That's that's a spicy answer

24:10

I guess. And like I

24:12

also I like it's kind

24:14

of the dichotomy. I don't

24:16

know how much I would

24:18

like Nada or Moonin without

24:20

the other because I really

24:22

like the interplay of the

24:25

idealistic sort of high-minded but

24:27

obsessed very like Separothian anime

24:29

villain type versus just the

24:31

bastard who doesn't care about

24:33

anyone and wants power. Having

24:35

those very different takes on

24:37

villainy being kind of the

24:39

prime movers of stuff like

24:41

of events in the world

24:43

is fun for me. somewhat

24:45

unsurprising answer for me my

24:47

favorite villain is Walter. Yeah.

24:50

Because, uh, yeah. Keep getting

24:52

hurt by that guy even

24:54

when he hasn't been around

24:56

for a while. Sometimes he's

24:58

a dragon and that's especially

25:00

sad. Yeah, it's even, it's

25:02

yet again, it's, uh, it's

25:04

like, oh, well, he couldn't

25:06

possibly hurt me now that

25:08

he's a dragon, which is

25:10

an odd sentence to say.

25:12

Actually. I think I've read

25:14

that book. But yeah, for

25:17

me it's long like it

25:19

Larry. Hell yeah, I do

25:21

enjoy hating that clown. The

25:23

clown just keeps coming back.

25:26

We actually have a very pointed

25:28

question about that coming later. Stay

25:30

tuned. Four shadowy. That's what we

25:32

call a four shadowy. When the

25:34

clown came back, I'll admit, I

25:36

got some weird looks in the

25:38

grocery store because I did a

25:41

double fist pump and yell because

25:43

I was like, yes, not only

25:45

is the clown back, because like

25:47

the clown's okay, but that meant

25:49

Mitch got to hit the clown

25:51

again. Which is like my favorite

25:53

part of the show. I knew

25:56

it was coming. So good. I'm

25:58

gonna get the candy out of

26:00

him one of these days. What

26:02

are these days? I just had

26:04

a thought of like one of

26:06

those carnival tests of strength things.

26:08

it's with a baseball bat and

26:11

you're hitting a clown, yeah. Mm-hmm.

26:13

Moving from kind of pasty stuff

26:15

into more current events, from Arman,

26:17

Rob, you talked about maybe getting

26:19

out more books, like background companion

26:21

or so. Is that still on

26:23

the table? Adversaries would be nice.

26:26

I really hope so, is the

26:28

answer to that. I have a

26:30

lot of stuff to work on

26:32

besides just the show, as I

26:34

have explicated to patrons. My life

26:36

has become very complicated recently and

26:38

a lot of real-life responsibilities, but

26:41

I do have a strong urge

26:43

to get bonus content production back

26:45

up and running properly again, and

26:47

involved in that I have a

26:49

new game system that I'm working

26:51

on that is less complex than

26:53

Orpheus by far, but I think

26:56

very interesting. It is a terro-based,

26:58

diceless role-playing game that I want

27:00

to do some bonus content with

27:02

and probably potentially crown fund something

27:04

so that I can have some

27:06

nice art and things. Working on

27:08

setting for that as well with

27:11

Lilith. We have some pretty cool

27:13

ideas. But aside from those things,

27:15

I hope to have some time

27:17

to put out a PDF or

27:19

two supplements for the Orpheus protocol,

27:21

because yeah, something that is conspicuously

27:24

absent from the main book is

27:26

an explicit, this is the campaign

27:28

setting, because to my mind, it's

27:30

like, well, like, here's what Orpheus

27:32

does, here's how they operate. and

27:34

they are in our world and

27:36

you can put whatever you want

27:39

with that to make your game,

27:41

or if you want to do

27:43

what I'm doing, listen to the

27:45

show. Here's like something that is

27:47

much more detailed than any campaign

27:49

setting, but I sympathize with the

27:51

feeling of like it would be

27:54

nice to have a somewhat more

27:56

detailed like campaign or setting gazette

27:58

and like something like a monster

28:00

manual. A bunch of examples. and

28:02

example challenges and stuff beyond the

28:04

couple of examples that are in

28:06

the core rule book. I think

28:09

what shape that takes is going

28:11

to be largely based on how

28:13

much interest there is like if

28:15

I can crowd fund something like

28:17

at a much more modest and

28:19

easily attained goal than the overall

28:21

Orpheus project and when and how

28:24

long it would take is based

28:26

on both all these other project

28:28

bits. and what next happens wrong

28:30

in my body and the next

28:32

medical emergency for someone in my

28:34

community IRL? I feel that in

28:36

my bones. But yeah, I would

28:39

really like to put out a

28:41

couple of nice little supplements to

28:43

make running the orifice protocol easier

28:45

or like jog people's imaginations. I

28:47

feel that in my bones, but

28:49

also this week my kidneys because

28:51

I've had a kidney stone since

28:54

Sunday. Oh, no! Yep, it's passed,

28:56

but the pain has not gone.

28:58

Anyhood. Have you tried just not

29:00

being in pain? You could try

29:02

that. That's what the first doctor

29:04

basically said, and then the second

29:06

doctor was like... That's the doctor,

29:09

I assume that you fired? And

29:11

went to a new doctor two

29:13

days later. Yeah. We'll get into

29:15

that later, maybe. Question four, Rob

29:17

from Mike Dejiang. Lillett is such

29:19

a great player. It's a shame

29:21

that she only was allowed to

29:24

play side characters and Phelan, even

29:26

during the Fukundity Ark. But for

29:28

real, is there any way that

29:30

Mitch can pinyata the clown spider

29:32

to get those memories of Kailar

29:34

back? If he meets up with

29:37

733, any chance of the dissonance

29:39

of her pointing out Kailar's existence

29:41

reviving the memory, just pondering. That's

29:43

part one. I mostly wanted to

29:45

include this question because of how

29:47

funny it was. Memory Pinotta is

29:49

a concept. Yeah, I really feel

29:52

like we left a lot of

29:54

money on the table having Lillett

29:56

all this time and not having...

29:58

play a main character in the

30:00

show. Yeah, so weird that I've

30:02

never played a main character. Yeah,

30:04

so odd how you absolutely... Yeah.

30:07

On the call, but I'm not

30:09

actually doing anything. Very strange. Very

30:11

strange. You're also in the credits?

30:13

Yeah. But I know that's probably

30:15

just a coincidence that you're in

30:17

the credits. I like the idea

30:19

that if you were to string

30:22

up long-legged lary, like a pinata.

30:24

And you bust them open that

30:26

just like were there's originals and

30:28

memories would fall out Yeah, and

30:30

those little strawberry candies that like

30:32

the grandma candies I never know

30:34

where to buy them, but like

30:37

you find them They just appear

30:39

in your in your cupboard when

30:41

you're a grandma. Yeah, that's how

30:43

you know I

30:46

mean obviously the answer is the

30:48

X files theme song, question mark,

30:50

ghost question mark, because like, as

30:52

we pointed out, that fucking clown

30:55

keeps coming back. So like the

30:57

the question of long-legged Larry is

30:59

not fully closed. And yeah, that's

31:02

a great point. If we don't

31:04

get the memories back by a

31:06

route like that, there is someone

31:08

who remembers Kailar who they have

31:11

vouchsafed the arrival in the past

31:13

of. So very interesting. I'm pretty

31:15

sure the only way to truly

31:18

destroy long-legged Larry and claim all

31:20

lost memories is to beat him

31:22

in his posse at a game

31:24

of baseball. Yeah. Got his reach

31:27

though. His feeling is his fucking

31:29

nightmare. Anyway. Back in the present.

31:31

Mitch could put together a baseball

31:34

team, much more easily, at least,

31:36

with people who I actually understand

31:38

what it is. A full of

31:41

Mitch baseball team, yeah. Certainly another

31:43

one is a good one. This

31:45

is not the first time we've

31:47

spotted this. Well, yeah, because there's

31:50

at least one Star Trek episode

31:52

about it, so Floyd definitely knows.

31:54

Red grew up in the South.

31:57

But, uh, yeah. yeah, there is

31:59

a bunch of more stuff to

32:01

this question. Yes, so part two,

32:03

those afflicted with the, and I

32:06

quote here, taint of Larry, end

32:08

quote, after being bitten by too

32:10

many spiders not only faded from

32:13

memory, but were unable to interact

32:15

with the world writ large from

32:17

the stuff, T.M., on them stopping

32:19

them from interacting with things, like

32:22

the garage freight doors. Were they

32:24

unable to interact because reality itself

32:26

on this level was forgetting how

32:29

to interact with them? Or were

32:31

they being phased over to a

32:33

different reality dimension? And then there's

32:36

another part, but I think stopping

32:38

there is a good piece. I

32:40

will say for this sort of

32:42

like porkenolos dose. Yes, reality was

32:45

in fact forgetting them, so their

32:47

purchase on this realm was slipping

32:49

over time. And they were being

32:52

sort of predegested to be swallowed

32:54

into something like entirely different. Part

32:56

three, was the entire town being

32:58

slowly dunked into the outer dark

33:01

to marinate before slipping through a

33:03

reality hole and landing into carcosa?

33:05

Mitch and Phelan being able to

33:08

get to Datalis's tower, which we

33:10

now know is all up in

33:12

architect Weiss's geometries, makes both tantalizingly

33:14

feasible. I will do a sneaky

33:17

semi-answer to this and say you're

33:19

very close to right, but it's

33:21

not carcosa. So have fun chewing

33:24

on that. He who is pale

33:26

asks Dan. So how do we

33:28

feel about definitely defeating that damn

33:31

clown for what is surely the

33:33

last time? Well,

33:37

you and I both know, and

33:39

everyone on this call knows that

33:41

it's not the last time we

33:43

got to go again. I do

33:46

remember the, I think it was

33:48

when it was really the nemaphage

33:50

talking, it was like mocking Mitch

33:53

for not being able to recognize

33:55

the, for like mistaking the mask

33:57

for the true essence, and I

33:59

just let go with the time

34:02

because I had whacken to do.

34:04

But it is funny that that

34:06

was like it's it's taunt because

34:08

in carcosa I definitely tried to

34:11

skip the mask and go to

34:13

the thing itself when I like

34:15

had Mitch threatened to kill carcosa

34:18

itself. Yeah. So that clown doesn't

34:20

know me as well as it

34:22

thinks it does. You may still

34:24

have an advantage that you secretly

34:27

hold. Yeah. Also, the scoreboard's pretty

34:29

good for Mitch on this. Also

34:31

from he who is pale. Oh,

34:33

I'm sorry. Go ahead. Oh, no.

34:36

Just, we don't really know how

34:38

many innings it's going to be.

34:40

That is the advantage that the

34:43

neemophage has is that it can

34:45

just keep playing all night. Also

34:47

from he who is pale. Nick.

34:49

Have you missed being super gross

34:52

about torque? Yeah, the easy answer

34:54

yes, the funnier answer is having

34:56

not, not being torque has made

34:58

me much more susceptible to other

35:01

people's gross body horror imagery, both

35:03

in my podcast and in Orpheus,

35:05

like. I was so good at

35:08

it and now other people are

35:10

doing it and I'm like is

35:12

this what I've been doing to

35:14

people? Oh my god. But yeah

35:17

I haven't got to flex that

35:19

muscle in a little bit. Finally

35:21

from He Who is Pale to

35:24

everyone what was your favorite moment

35:26

that happened to someone else this

35:28

season? I liked watching Kailar have

35:30

to deal with having multiple Kailars,

35:33

like especially in the, uh, in

35:35

like the season finale for four,

35:37

where it got more complex and

35:39

there was all the weird meta

35:42

play magic stuff happening. It was

35:44

just fun to have the most

35:46

chill and blazet character be just

35:49

faced with existential confusion and watching

35:51

them roll through it was a

35:53

lot of fun. I thought that

35:55

was neat. Also, the the face

35:58

dealer was real creepy. like in

36:00

a way I was excited to

36:02

see them. Thank my subconscious for

36:04

that one. That just came right

36:07

out of a nightmare I had.

36:09

Yep. Actually, I may change my

36:11

answer on favorite villain to the

36:14

face dealer because it was one

36:16

that was like real spooky. But

36:18

every time they showed up, I

36:20

was like, mmm, that's that good

36:23

running away nightmare vibe. Oh, yeah.

36:27

I really liked the return from

36:29

Karkosa fakeout that happened to Retz

36:32

team. That was fun. Yeah, just

36:34

when you think you're out, that

36:36

whole sequence was just really interesting,

36:39

getting me see everybody kind of

36:41

react to the nastiest reality warp

36:44

that the king in yellow can

36:46

really throw at you. doing that

36:48

wake up from a dream and

36:51

then you're actually still dreaming that

36:53

you woke up from the dream

36:56

thing. Yep. Ret forgot to grab

36:58

a top and make sure it

37:00

would fall down when we spun

37:03

it. That was... Yeah, that damn.

37:05

rookie mistake. I have enjoyed Ishmael

37:08

having to deal with the members

37:10

of 401, I'm not okay. And

37:12

just being like, oh, not only

37:15

are they a band, which is

37:17

probably bad enough to deal with

37:20

on its own. Now they're all

37:22

like, undead necromancers and... And they're

37:24

all so fine with it is

37:27

the problem. Like nobody... So chill.

37:29

I think Ishmael is jealous that,

37:31

because like his his dark and

37:34

unknowable power came with like a

37:36

lot of pain and like soul

37:39

angst and they're just like, dope,

37:41

rock on, bra. And he's like,

37:43

what? You don't get to be

37:46

Batman without your parents getting shot.

37:48

There's got to be you got

37:51

to have the band outside this

37:53

lady's cabin in the cold like

37:55

for 48 hours without water. Yeah.

37:58

God damn it. Come on. Yeah.

38:00

for the brand. Use this for

38:03

the next album. And I think

38:05

something was said at some point

38:07

in the narration around for a

38:10

one I'm not okay that like

38:12

Something about the magic that's been

38:15

used on them is kind of

38:17

forcing their brains to stay in

38:19

a human shape that they're like

38:22

we've seen from kind of the

38:24

humanity expenditure of some of their

38:27

abilities that it's not sustainable like

38:29

they're not going to I don't

38:31

know they've also been doing some

38:34

Fleetwood Mac rumors level of interpersonal

38:36

drama So being undead necromancers might

38:39

actually be chiller and easier to

38:41

digest than all the different interpersonal

38:43

drama. I think the sort of

38:46

word of God on this is

38:48

like Joey's gonna have his reunion

38:51

tour and it doesn't matter how

38:53

many other random people's souls he

38:55

has to burn to keep that

38:58

going. Foylon's gonna

39:00

be so excited. Yeah. Because

39:02

last they remember, they were

39:04

putting out some banger hits.

39:06

Yep. I think maybe my

39:09

answer is making Nick say

39:11

Radatui 18 plus R.P. That

39:13

was great. Yeah. I think

39:15

somewhere on the cutting room

39:17

floor is, okay guys, bear

39:19

with me. I will say

39:21

it, but Ishmael's gonna drag

39:23

his feet as hard as

39:26

possible. Feel free to make

39:28

this difficult for me. I've

39:30

got a prep mentally and

39:32

physically. Also I definitely had

39:34

to take like seven takes

39:36

at that. There was some

39:38

issues laughing. Yeah, laughing in

39:40

how much Gandalf I was

39:42

supposed to go was the

39:45

other part. For me, it

39:47

is Aki's little buddy who

39:49

name is escaping me. Bart

39:51

or Bart. Bart or Bart.

39:53

Going full demon dark. Like

39:55

dark willow murder friend and

39:57

that was. friend he was

39:59

so he was so happy

40:01

about it yeah I'm evil

40:04

that's uh yeah he used

40:06

to be like that all

40:08

the time From

40:10

Joan 11 to Nick and Lillett

40:12

and Dan to an extent, if

40:14

your fecundity far future characters and

40:16

your modern day character, current characters

40:18

met up, how would they get

40:20

along, do you think? And if

40:23

they got along well together, what

40:25

do you think they would do

40:27

while hanging out, either both in

40:29

the fecundity and or in modern

40:31

day? Would Phalan and Kailar do

40:33

an escape room? Would Torque and

40:35

Aiki play seeds in Nantucket? The

40:37

people, mainly me, want to know

40:39

if Dan gets in on the

40:42

action, this could also apply to

40:44

any version of Mitch or Agent

40:46

Hook. Hell yeah. I was hoping

40:48

that Dan would answer it a

40:50

la clone, so I'm glad that

40:52

was brought up in the question.

40:54

Kayla doesn't really know what a

40:56

nerd is in the modern sense,

40:58

but I feel like they would

41:01

instinctually know to call Phelan one.

41:04

Kailar would bully Fualin for sure.

41:07

Oh yeah. Kailar can smell a

41:09

mark. And Kailar would feel like

41:11

they're creating a word out of

41:14

thin air and everyone's like, oh

41:16

no, no, we get you. Kailar

41:19

would sell Fualin a, air quotes,

41:21

battle ready, cat, ancient Kata. Yeah.

41:23

Kailar would quickly learn from Fualin

41:26

how to scam people on the

41:28

internet. Really? Whoa, whoa, whoa, you

41:31

see, I can just pretend this

41:33

is signed merchandise and people will

41:35

pay four times as much for

41:38

it? Ten times as much for

41:40

it? Yeah, I can forge a

41:42

signature. Torqu and Aki playing seeds

41:45

is now an EU in my

41:47

head. I think that would be

41:50

really fun, especially because both of

41:52

them would have a very different

41:54

approach to playing it, but would

41:57

both like. initial thought was torque

41:59

and achy would get along great

42:02

if they had a job to

42:04

do. Like if there was an

42:06

objective to point towards because Ishmael

42:09

is very used to working with

42:11

people like torque who are sad

42:14

and good at stuff. So he

42:16

knows how to cope through that

42:18

and make that dynamic work. If

42:21

they were just hanging out, I

42:23

struggle to see them playing putt

42:25

putt and eating pizza. I don't

42:28

think that would necessarily happen. I

42:30

do think that BART would probably

42:33

really enjoy interacting with tort. Like,

42:35

yeah. I don't know if either

42:37

of them would 100% understand how

42:40

that dynamic would work, but it

42:42

would go upstairs to downstairs comedy

42:45

for like a long time. And

42:47

that would be fine. Yeah, I

42:49

feel like Foylon and Kailar would

42:52

work well on a team, because

42:54

Foylon's not, like, so uptight as

42:56

to completely negate anything Kailar is

42:59

doing. And Kailar is a veteran

43:01

of appreciating people who go and

43:04

take the hits and tank everything

43:06

so that they can go in

43:08

and finish things. Just keep them

43:11

away from that stupid night. So

43:13

Caleb would for once be like,

43:16

holy shit, I don't have to

43:18

stop my party members from trying

43:20

to kill themselves. This is amazing.

43:23

It's like easy mode. What do

43:25

you even do then? Like you

43:27

mean you're gonna go get hit,

43:30

but you're gonna try and live?

43:32

Wow, I didn't know that was

43:35

possible. It's not I'm pretty sure

43:37

it's not sounds fake. Yeah. Gravity

43:39

is not my fault. No. I

43:42

think Foylin would be very tired

43:44

of torque just because they themselves

43:47

are not Catholic. But they know

43:49

enough other Irish people who are,

43:51

that they'd be like, oh, I

43:54

know this, I know this architect.

44:00

Yeah, I, I, Nick said the

44:03

words, the letters, A-U, and it

44:05

made me imagine the all-mitch coffee

44:07

shop, A-U. Yes, just- Mitches and

44:10

Agent's Hook, just having to interact

44:12

quietly with each other constantly. It

44:15

would be kind of neat to

44:17

see Hakim get to interact with

44:19

some of the people from the

44:22

present day, get to interact with

44:24

people other than Kailar and LaBour,

44:26

just as some flime. Yeah. Yeah.

44:29

Well, and I mean, there's some

44:31

precedent for his type of character

44:33

to have another go, given that

44:36

he basically went out saying, go

44:38

then, there are other worlds than

44:40

these. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think

44:43

he's gonna. Would it be nice?

44:45

I think he and Mitch would

44:48

get along, unsurprisingly. Oh yeah, for

44:50

sure. It'd be like a charmandered,

44:52

a charmeleon, or a charmesan, like,

44:55

beginning a vision in the last

44:57

one. And I think, honestly, Hakim

44:59

would get along pretty well with

45:02

Torque, probably to Torque's dismay. Yeah.

45:04

Stop laking me, child. You do

45:06

not want me as a role

45:09

model. I could see you taking

45:11

inspiration from my action. Stop it.

45:13

Go. No. No. Squire bottle. Spork

45:16

bottle. Stop it. Yeah. All right,

45:18

from David Kleinman for Rob. You've

45:21

made a point of integrating player

45:23

characters into the everyday world of

45:25

Orpheus, making Keswick Enterprises a household

45:28

name, having Joey be a huge

45:30

401 I'm not okay fan, etc.

45:32

Are there any other connections slash

45:35

lasting player effects that have been

45:37

left on the cutting room floor

45:39

that you're desperate to talk about?

45:42

Not exactly, but I wanted this

45:44

question to be in here so

45:46

that I can cheekily say, I'm

45:49

really looking forward to giving this

45:51

exact same treatment to Ishmael and

45:54

Fualen. Mmm. The fact that we've

45:56

got new main characters. the present

45:58

day timeline, I have a lot

46:01

of fun ideas about how to

46:03

roll backstory in to the present

46:05

as we, like, because obviously mostly

46:08

I'm pruning the bonsai tree of

46:10

Orpheus at this point, like to

46:12

go towards a conclusion, but I'm

46:15

looking forward to when I must

46:17

add something, trying to make it

46:19

relevant to one of the new

46:22

characters as frequently as I can,

46:24

is going to be a fun

46:27

challenge and fun territory to explore,

46:29

I think. Yeah, I'm really stoked

46:31

for Mama Kavalyev to show up

46:34

at some point, or just be

46:36

referenced. Like, that's going to be

46:38

real bad for everyone. Nick? Hmm?

46:41

Hmm? Remember

46:43

this moment. Oh yeah, I know

46:45

he's not gonna know it. Remember

46:47

that you said you wanted this.

46:50

Yeah, fuck yeah. Okay. What are

46:52

you gonna do, Rob, kill me?

46:54

You cannot kill me in a

46:57

way that matters. Man, what are

46:59

you gonna do? Turnish me only

47:01

to a frog? Oh no. just

47:03

completely swap characters. I'm gonna be

47:06

honest, I kind of feel like

47:08

I'd like to eat you. Wayland's

47:10

like, I have the same... The

47:13

same feeling, huh? Ishmael just becomes...

47:15

Or at least like pick you

47:17

up and just run around the

47:20

house with you. Ishmael just becomes

47:22

the next witch is familiar and

47:24

it creates an internal cycle. Yeah,

47:26

oh, like that actually as far

47:29

as like end results, I could

47:31

see that on the on the

47:33

branching event possibility tree. Chad Rizzowski

47:36

asked the whole crew, part one,

47:38

or question one, metaphorical gun with

47:40

an allegorical bullet to your head,

47:43

if you had to add in

47:45

another archetype, would you try to

47:47

toss into the melting pot? I'll

47:49

answer this one first because it's

47:52

very, very Ret initially was a

47:54

telepath telekinetic because Pathokinetic was not

47:56

created at the time that I

47:59

made Ret. So I would just

48:01

tack back in telekinetic and go

48:03

full gene gray. Now I think

48:06

that you can interpret this question

48:08

two ways. One is if you

48:10

wanted to add more powers to

48:12

your main character. The other one

48:15

is if you wanted to add

48:17

another archetype to the game. Oh,

48:19

okay. Which is, which is also

48:22

super interesting. Hmm. The thing that

48:24

brings to mind for me, and

48:26

this is just kind of like

48:29

freestyle and off the dome here,

48:31

is I feel like Munin's whole

48:33

deal could be a separate archetype

48:35

from what we've seen so far.

48:38

Yeah, the like portal manipulation, like

48:40

the purely like, yeah, the spatial

48:42

mastery, the future site, things like

48:45

that. And like just his thing

48:47

in general, like if we were

48:49

like, oh, what archetypes are he

48:52

as long as Nick doesn't have

48:54

to write mechanics, is I would

48:56

put him as like a Odin

48:58

slash tactician, because like he's got

49:01

the portal stuff, but also like,

49:03

really, if you want to be

49:05

good at telling people what to

49:08

do, Pathokinetics is the only option,

49:10

and that's mostly just to make

49:12

you not feel bad about it.

49:15

So I think there's more game

49:17

design, like cheese to be put

49:19

on crackers as far. things like

49:21

something you could put in there

49:24

also portals are cool like I

49:26

want to say unethical geometries that's

49:28

not what it's called impossible that

49:31

that's the one no the unethical

49:33

geometries is how Atlanta died unfortunately

49:35

yeah Like that's neat, but I

49:38

think there are other things that

49:40

would be fun to play with

49:42

as a character that for like

49:44

spatial relation than just go fast

49:47

because most of the most of

49:49

the archetypes have a go fast

49:51

button but they don't have a

49:54

like move other people button or

49:56

like that. And I think that

49:58

would be cool. Yeah. I'm so

50:01

glad that I'm not actually binding

50:03

myself to doing this, but I

50:05

think that territory that I didn't

50:07

explore that sort of makes sense.

50:10

You've got your witch's bruise, you've

50:12

got your philosopher stones, maybe an

50:14

entire archetype whose like full rules

50:17

construction was I create magical or

50:19

cursed objects. and having its own

50:21

like interesting little system that that

50:24

would be challenging but kind of

50:26

cool to design if there was

50:28

a yeah like a person who

50:30

just showed up and like opens

50:33

up the trench coat and has

50:35

like bandoliers of different weird little

50:37

cursed things or like magical like

50:40

magic tech artifacts that they've created.

50:42

So I guess like a fully

50:44

like an artificer or enchanter kind

50:47

of a vibe could be pretty

50:49

interesting. You can you can kind

50:51

of do that now with like

50:53

the witches fetishes and like the

50:56

homunculus, but I think it's not

50:58

you wouldn't build an orpheus character

51:00

around that just for the vibe

51:03

so like being able to make

51:05

someone who does that sounds really

51:07

yeah and like something where like

51:10

you would incorporate modern technology into

51:12

it so like this this character

51:14

would be able to basically make

51:16

and wield the service weapon from

51:19

control oh dope yeah yeah I'm

51:21

on board yeah that's that's what

51:23

I would probably say I'm not

51:26

doing that damn it's a lot

51:28

of work If you wanted to

51:30

tie it into the Orpheus universe

51:32

as expressed in the show you

51:35

could also make that kind of

51:37

like a recruitment ground or breeding

51:39

ground or just sort of developmental

51:42

program for capital A artisans. You're

51:44

dabbling around in various things until

51:46

you figure out what your like

51:49

one thing is. But maybe that

51:51

would just be that'd be like

51:53

a character focused thing like if

51:55

you wanted that be an art

51:58

for your character, you could use

52:00

that archetype, but you wouldn't have

52:02

a need to be like, and

52:05

this is where they all came

52:07

from. That's almost like getting into

52:09

building prestige classes under the art

52:12

field. Yes. Can you imagine though,

52:14

like a season finale in some

52:16

alternate reality, being like, we have

52:18

the bookmaker and the architect and

52:21

the playwright and gun man. Yeah.

52:23

That's just alloicious. Um, yeah. Yeah,

52:25

all right. I do have one

52:28

now that my reading comprehension has

52:30

been checked. And my reading comprehension

52:32

was not quite there the first

52:35

time. I think it's a fun

52:37

little horror trope that nobody talks

52:39

about a lot is like a

52:41

pictomancer. People whose drawings become real?

52:44

Oh, sure. Like the little girls.

52:46

Yeah, but like flush that out

52:48

into its own. Yeah, like make,

52:51

make Ellie someone who goes out

52:53

on missions and you can play

52:55

as that kind of character. Right,

52:58

maybe have like a full notebook

53:00

of drawings and things that you

53:02

can whip. Like, I think that

53:04

would be kind of neat, kind

53:07

of almost reader die meets witchy.

53:09

I keep coming back to, there

53:11

was a realm from Final Fantasy.

53:14

Rome from Final Fantasy, but also

53:16

there was a Stephen King thing

53:18

called Rose Red, where a little

53:21

girl drew the big mansion and

53:23

then drew rocks like crushing it.

53:25

And that's always the thing that

53:27

holds space in my brain whenever

53:30

I think about this. But yeah,

53:32

like a pickedomancer of some kind,

53:34

I think would be neat. So

53:37

as I sit here surrounded by

53:39

little robots. At first I thought

53:41

it would be too specific an

53:44

idea to have like a mecca

53:46

pilot archetype, but a basically you

53:48

could take an idea from catanas

53:50

and trench coats and mash it

53:53

up with mecca pilot and I

53:55

think you enough juice to make

53:57

an entire archetype just of car

54:00

wizard basically someone whose deal is

54:02

mounts and vehicles that's something that's

54:04

sort of territory we don't super

54:07

get into in Orpheus proper a

54:09

lot of the time what's your

54:11

drive at man I think mine's

54:13

a D on Mitch okay but

54:16

I think it was also a

54:18

D on my character from the

54:20

living campaign but I just love

54:23

doing that. I love having that

54:25

one point in drive. In any

54:27

case, but yeah, I think some

54:30

kind of thing where it wouldn't

54:32

just be having two characters like

54:34

some of the more like familiar

54:36

based builds would be And I

54:39

think it'd be sort of a

54:41

general thing where you wouldn't necessarily

54:43

want to have like one specific

54:46

mount or car or if the

54:48

opportunity arises, giant robot, but like

54:50

your ability to interact with the

54:53

sort of large objects of the

54:55

world around you would be an

54:57

interesting design space to explore. And

54:59

then you could do an entire

55:02

like fast in the furious spin-off

55:04

in the Orpheus. That is where

55:06

the car wizard in Katanas and

55:09

Trenchcoats came from. Amazing. Like one

55:11

core power is that as long

55:13

as they are in a moving

55:16

vehicle, they themselves cannot be harmed.

55:18

That is so amazing. The second

55:20

part of this question from Chad,

55:22

would the P-72 have consented to

55:25

being sharpened into a giant wooden

55:27

stake for the slaying of vampires

55:29

during the future arcs? Or would

55:32

such an alteration to the bat

55:34

be considered a violation of the

55:36

rules of baseball to the extent

55:39

that the weapon spear would perish

55:41

or otherwise abandon the bat and

55:43

or its wielder? I feel like

55:45

Dan gets a bit of like

55:48

authorial status on this one. And

55:50

I think the answer to my

55:52

mind is we don't really dig

55:55

into like the hard and fast

55:57

like mechanics of weapons that are

55:59

weapon-bearer. very often. I think

56:02

what would happen is that the

56:04

bat would not be wielded by

56:06

a person who would change it

56:08

from a baseball bat into a

56:10

giant unwieldy vampire state. So Orpheus

56:12

was always going to look back

56:14

because that's who he is and

56:16

that's why it happened that way.

56:18

More or less, I think, like,

56:20

a person could try and take

56:22

the P72 and carve it down

56:24

into a big stake. That is

56:26

a thing that someone could do,

56:28

but it would be, it wouldn't

56:30

be the wielder because they would

56:32

be a baseball player. And the

56:34

bat would do what it could

56:36

to not be in the hands

56:38

of someone who was not a

56:40

noble baseballman. Yeah, and that's, and

56:42

that's, like, like, it'll, it'll figure

56:44

out a path into the hands

56:46

of somebody who knows what to

56:48

do. Now as a counterpoint, what

56:50

I could see happening is if

56:52

the end of Mitch's story was

56:54

killing a big-ass vampire, I could

56:56

see the bat breaking itself in

56:58

a clash to become sharp so

57:00

that you could stake it like

57:02

sacrificing itself to do it. That

57:04

would, I could see that happening.

57:06

And that would probably, during the

57:08

fight, we would find out that

57:10

secretly the invention of the game

57:12

of baseball was all part of

57:14

some giant ritual to end vampiredom

57:16

itself. Obviously, yeah, yeah, clearly. Or

57:18

if the wielder was killed by

57:20

a vampire, perhaps the bat would

57:22

like be turned into a steak

57:24

and that would be its new

57:26

form. Oh, that's kind of cool.

57:28

I like to advantage the old

57:30

wielder. Would Mitch ductape a steak

57:32

to the P72? Like

57:35

a bayonet attachment? One of, that

57:37

is a thing though is. With

57:39

this other more different piece of

57:41

wood, it's so good. Put a

57:44

scope on the grip. Yeah, it's

57:46

like a... Tears of the kingdom.

57:48

Put a stick on a stick.

57:50

Yeah, I got double stick. And

57:53

then fear me. Yeah. Oh my

57:55

fucking god. Round two. Fight. The

57:57

next... of questions are from Vinnyru.

57:59

The first few are for Rob.

58:02

With Mithras killing their own ego

58:04

and performing the Terectomy, with Mithras

58:06

killing their own ego in performing

58:08

the Terectomy and creating life slash

58:11

elevating themselves past the base human

58:13

or material world, befriending Sol invictus

58:15

and Walter in his bull-killing and

58:17

entrance into the upper echelons of

58:20

Sol invictus, with the parallel slash

58:22

cyclical nature of myth, St. George's

58:24

story in its ties to Mithras,

58:26

and the order of the Dragon,

58:29

its ties to Vlad Tepus, and

58:31

the creation of Dracula, you told

58:33

us in so many ways what

58:35

was going to happen on the

58:38

grand timeline scale. Did you ever

58:40

dream that delaying a sword fight

58:42

would have reached these dizzying heights?

58:44

And what's next? That question was

58:47

too smart for me. I most

58:49

include the question just for the

58:51

great pleasure of hearing Alan read

58:53

it. I mean, I guess I

58:56

didn't, and this gets into a

58:58

question that's later on, but like,

59:00

I didn't know that delaying the

59:02

sword fight would be so central.

59:05

uh... to the project of the

59:07

orpheus protocol however i i do

59:09

like i'm not trying to like

59:12

completely chain myself to the mythological

59:14

references that are woven in like

59:16

it doesn't necessarily have to happen

59:18

exactly like the myth happens if

59:21

i'm using it but i like

59:23

having as much parallel as fits

59:25

as I can make satisfying in

59:27

the story because it's fun for

59:30

people who are myth nerds to

59:32

pick up on these little things

59:34

that we're doing these references. And

59:36

it's great raw material to like

59:39

inspire interesting little twists and nuances.

59:41

of the storytelling. So yeah, like,

59:43

there are a lot of things

59:45

that can kind of be, if

59:48

not fully predicted, intuitive, felt resonantly

59:50

through nerding out about the same

59:52

myths that I was. in terms

59:54

of what's next, well, wait till

59:57

the end of this Q&A special,

59:59

and there's some some hints waiting

1:00:01

for you there. And I think

1:00:03

that this was a typo. It

1:00:06

should be Hyadis. Yeah, I was

1:00:08

thinking Hyadis. Um, Is the lead?

1:00:10

Nuts? Nuts! Nuts, are more people.

1:00:12

Yeah. Yeah. I will admit that

1:00:15

I thought about doing it, but

1:00:17

thought, no, no, that would be

1:00:19

immature. So I'm glad that I

1:00:21

was proven right. Yeah. Question number

1:00:24

two, is the link between the

1:00:26

Hyades and Karkosa and Dionysus one

1:00:28

you have made canonical within the

1:00:30

Orpheus universe? This one's sort of

1:00:33

more simple, kind of no, because

1:00:35

Karkosa is, by its nature, very

1:00:37

much separate from everything that isn't

1:00:39

Karkosa. in the Orpheus cosmology. And

1:00:42

that is what Karkosa's project is

1:00:44

to rectify. It wants to be

1:00:46

everything, and everything that it is

1:00:48

not, is what it is not.

1:00:51

Like, once it touches something, it

1:00:53

becomes part of Karkosa. And so,

1:00:55

it wants to be everything, and

1:00:58

it wants that distinction to cease.

1:01:00

So, Dionysus is kind of its

1:01:02

own whole bag of manads to

1:01:04

open in the cosmology. So, so

1:01:07

those are separate from one another.

1:01:09

Question three, are Nevada and Walter

1:01:11

blood relatives? Different ages. Both orphaned,

1:01:13

as far as I recall, Walter

1:01:16

has a zippoliter that is his

1:01:18

only token left of his parents,

1:01:20

having lost them at a very

1:01:22

young age, no mention of siblings,

1:01:25

though. Both manifest telekinetic powers. Both,

1:01:27

perhaps through the gentle nudge of

1:01:29

causality. Henry, you rascal, you rascal.

1:01:31

End up in Chester, in the

1:01:34

path of Mitch and the original

1:01:36

Orpheus cell. My answer to this

1:01:38

is, I don't know. What do

1:01:40

you think. What do you think.

1:01:43

What do you think. What do

1:01:45

you think. Mystery, mystery, mystery, mystery.

1:01:47

And then number four, for Rob,

1:01:49

tell us about Lou Ellen Howard.

1:01:52

the nemophage. Tell us about who?

1:01:54

I'm sorry, I don't quite remember,

1:01:56

I'm not sure. Okay, I know

1:01:58

what the nemophage is. It's a

1:02:01

big problem, but like who's this

1:02:03

person that they're talking about? Let's

1:02:05

just focus on that second part

1:02:07

then. Let's just focus on the

1:02:10

second part. Yeah, I believe, I

1:02:12

think it's a clown? Anyway, let's

1:02:14

go to the next question. Good

1:02:16

answer, good answer. For Dan, number

1:02:19

one, do you see Gerhart as

1:02:21

complete now? And what other things

1:02:23

would you have liked to explore?

1:02:25

Was there anything that was missed

1:02:28

by the players? And was there

1:02:30

anything you'd like to highlight or

1:02:32

say about your horrifying mini world

1:02:34

within the Orpheus universe? I only

1:02:37

ever had the two Gear Heart

1:02:39

scenarios, plus the one that Rob

1:02:41

and I ran together, which would

1:02:43

be cool to run, but would

1:02:46

definitely need to be sat down

1:02:48

and sort of figure out in

1:02:50

terms of context. Just to catch

1:02:53

anybody up, who doesn't already know,

1:02:55

murder at Gear Heart Manor, and

1:02:57

then threading the needle were two

1:02:59

Com games that went back to

1:03:02

back. So, similar setup to what

1:03:04

happened in the show with a

1:03:06

group of non-powered detectives and friends,

1:03:08

uh, going in first, then a

1:03:11

group of powered agents going in

1:03:13

hoping to retrieve them, and the

1:03:15

follow-up in that big mega game

1:03:17

was basically that the agents had

1:03:20

gotten lost in the labyrinth as

1:03:22

it closed behind them, and... they

1:03:24

and another group of agents who

1:03:26

were in the physical world would

1:03:29

have to proceed through challenges together

1:03:31

sort of crossing back and forth

1:03:33

and handing things back and forth

1:03:35

and affecting each other's encounters from

1:03:38

the two sides. Basically in a

1:03:40

legend of Zelda way, like one

1:03:42

group was in the dark world

1:03:44

and one group was in the

1:03:47

regular world. Yeah, and eventually they

1:03:49

fought a giant. sort

1:03:52

of manifestation at the top of

1:03:54

the tower. And for reference, the

1:03:56

other group of players had been

1:03:58

through Fair Child for children and

1:04:00

the next adventure in that line

1:04:02

because Fairchild started not as an

1:04:04

Orpheus arc but as a one-shot

1:04:06

for cons, not the canonical version

1:04:08

of it like there be different

1:04:10

people they were playing as the

1:04:12

workers at the at the home

1:04:15

but they would play through and

1:04:17

then there would be Orpheus agents

1:04:19

dispatched to see what happened at

1:04:21

Fairchild home and those two adventures

1:04:23

also poured into that final big

1:04:25

double game. That was quite an

1:04:27

undertaking. Yeah, and that's why the

1:04:29

Gerhart, why Gerhart himself and the

1:04:31

manor have the ties that they

1:04:33

do to Fairchild Home. I would

1:04:35

say I think that like, I

1:04:37

mean, Gerhart himself is dead. The

1:04:39

Gerhart family is no more the

1:04:41

cult of seasons of which his

1:04:44

group was kind of part slash

1:04:46

offshoot of like that's certainly in

1:04:48

a very different place than it

1:04:50

was when we were writing yeah

1:04:52

the adventure so I think that

1:04:54

the gear heart series is finished

1:04:56

but I'm very glad of the

1:04:58

legacy that it's kind of had

1:05:00

in Orpheus going forward like I

1:05:02

really enjoy the stuff that Rob

1:05:04

is taken from my ideas that

1:05:06

were based on Rob's ideas and

1:05:08

like how it's sort of spun

1:05:10

out into the greater world. It's

1:05:12

almost like two really nerdy people

1:05:15

have a long friendship where, yeah.

1:05:17

Something like that, yeah. So as

1:05:19

a follow-up to that, which you

1:05:21

may have already addressed, but I'm

1:05:23

still going to ask it, and

1:05:25

will there be, or are there

1:05:27

in your mind, canonical endings for

1:05:29

your other one-shots? So Funland. I

1:05:31

mean, Funland is the one that

1:05:33

comes to mind because I definitely

1:05:35

ran Gerhart and threading the needle

1:05:37

a couple of times. I mean,

1:05:39

Funland would be very fun to

1:05:41

see. It's very standalone. I wrote

1:05:44

that one with no connection to

1:05:46

wider orpheus lore. Really, I wrote

1:05:48

it because I had watched a

1:05:50

ton of fun gland. Yeah. And

1:05:52

just was compelled. muse called to

1:05:54

me in Kevin Perjurer's voice to

1:05:56

make an Orpheus adventure setting a

1:05:58

theme park. There is way more

1:06:00

material. There's way more material in

1:06:02

the core notes than has ever

1:06:04

been seen in a game. Like

1:06:06

there are three lands with like

1:06:08

four things to do in each

1:06:10

of them plus the finale, which

1:06:12

was way too much for a

1:06:15

four hour con game. So like

1:06:17

there's enough like material, but I

1:06:19

think at this point in the

1:06:21

Orpheus story that have to be

1:06:23

a really good reason to actually

1:06:25

do it with a canon ending.

1:06:27

being said, there may be a

1:06:29

time when we need to put

1:06:31

some side material out on the

1:06:33

main feed and or the patron

1:06:35

to sustain stuff while I'm getting

1:06:37

ready for the thing that comes

1:06:39

after Orpheus. So if you're interested

1:06:41

in doing a real dive into

1:06:44

fun land, there may be an

1:06:46

opportunity. Yeah, getting to approach it

1:06:48

a little more slowly without the

1:06:50

threat of people being exploded if

1:06:52

they don't do the mission fast

1:06:54

enough would be a very different

1:06:56

vibe for it and could let

1:06:58

me do a little bit more

1:07:00

of the horror. Yeah. It's a

1:07:02

little bit more slapsticky. Those who've

1:07:04

played know that there's some funny

1:07:06

things that happen in it or

1:07:08

at least some creepy funny things

1:07:10

that happen in it. And those

1:07:13

we could stretch out and make

1:07:15

more, more harmful. And

1:07:17

an associated answer for me is like, well,

1:07:19

technically, I've also written a non-fairchild home one

1:07:21

shot because it's in the Orpheus rulebook. And

1:07:23

I am going to be recording a sort

1:07:26

of, this is the version that happened in

1:07:28

the world of the podcast recording series of

1:07:30

Communion and Glass with the cast of impossible

1:07:32

landscapes from our PPR. I will be director,

1:07:35

so Ross will get to be a player.

1:07:37

but it's gonna be Maddie, Fay, Thad, and

1:07:39

Ross playing that. Schedules are difficult, but that's

1:07:41

what I intend on doing and releasing that.

1:07:44

Probably for free to everybody, because that was

1:07:46

what I enticed people to go vote for

1:07:48

God's teeth. any competition with like if he

1:07:50

wins the gold I will

1:07:52

will I will do

1:07:55

this podcast production and

1:07:57

by God, Caleb won. God

1:07:59

Caleb one so to Caleb

1:08:01

Stokes for writing a

1:08:04

fucking horrifying campaign module

1:08:06

for module for And I

1:08:08

think you both literally you

1:08:10

both well I think

1:08:13

Rob literally answered the

1:08:15

last piece which was the

1:08:17

we see other was will

1:08:19

we see other one shots of the Orpheus

1:08:21

episodes? Sort of, yeah.

1:08:24

Stay tuned. sort of two tuned

1:08:26

crew. crew What was the

1:08:28

greatest challenge this year and why was it

1:08:30

coming up with a list of coming up with

1:08:32

a list of Joey's safe words? I guess we should

1:08:34

probably guess we should more it

1:08:37

more seriously we shouldn't. The problem with Joey's problem with

1:08:39

that they words is that they do

1:08:41

sort of hint activity is of activity is

1:08:43

being done that needs the safe

1:08:45

word can you can only take so

1:08:47

much? Spiritual damage before you need to

1:08:49

take a break, so it took

1:08:51

a long time time. I

1:08:53

hardest thing that I that

1:08:55

immediately comes to mind for me

1:08:57

was comes to mind for me what happened

1:09:00

like actually having to kind

1:09:02

of try to like up the

1:09:04

last to kind of try to sum up the last eight

1:09:06

years of podcast for a a friend then also

1:09:08

kind then also to of have

1:09:10

to fend off some of the

1:09:12

the like, no way, come on parts that

1:09:14

were that made perfect sense

1:09:17

if we're willing to say Fuellen to

1:09:19

say You're such a good guy. Walter.

1:09:22

Yeah, so that was that was probably

1:09:24

the toughest role -playing challenge for

1:09:26

me For me, I me. would say probably

1:09:28

the most challenging thing in actuality

1:09:30

was was coming up with

1:09:32

a new a character because I've

1:09:34

been been torque a time. like we've we've

1:09:37

joked about before, torque was supposed

1:09:39

to be a one a one shot

1:09:41

character character, came to embody a

1:09:43

lot of my own stuff

1:09:45

that I was working through and

1:09:47

was someone that I was about

1:09:49

a lot. I cared So a lot.

1:09:51

something different within that than that. challenging.

1:09:53

that context makes me really

1:09:55

glad that you're satisfied with the

1:09:58

way things wrapped up for torque.

1:10:00

yeah an emotional friendship bullet there

1:10:02

who I mean if we were

1:10:04

very communicative yeah I'm sure we

1:10:06

could have made it work anyway

1:10:09

but it was a it was

1:10:11

a good ending but so figuring

1:10:13

out what I wanted to do

1:10:15

because like this show has been

1:10:18

one of the first times where

1:10:20

I've really gotten to think through

1:10:22

like what what aspect do I

1:10:24

want this character to embody most

1:10:26

of the time it's just bits

1:10:29

for me so figuring out what

1:10:31

I wanted Ishmaels to be was

1:10:33

a little more challenging I actually

1:10:35

did fucking research do you know

1:10:38

how long it's been since I

1:10:40

did fucking research for an RPG

1:10:42

long as time I take it

1:10:44

as a great honor yeah you

1:10:46

should because it's not happening again

1:10:49

probably But yeah, I'm excited with

1:10:51

where that's going to go and

1:10:53

I'm happy with it, but it

1:10:55

was definitely forced me to do

1:10:57

some changes. I mean, mine was

1:11:00

pretty similar of like having to

1:11:02

come up with a new character

1:11:04

that was not Kailar. Yeah, the

1:11:06

last time you came up with

1:11:09

a new character, weirdly, was still

1:11:11

Kailar again. I mean, as if

1:11:13

Kailar wasn't the new Ziana, as

1:11:15

if maybe... I, as a person,

1:11:17

like to play charismatic, slightly chaotic

1:11:20

rogue characters. Drunkle stand-pilled. Maybe, yeah,

1:11:22

I'm a little gruntle-stand-pilled. If Grunklistan

1:11:24

was very hot, okay? What are

1:11:26

you talking about? That was not

1:11:29

a phrase I expected to hear

1:11:31

today. Yeah. I will not take

1:11:33

Grunklistan slander on this call. Yeah,

1:11:35

remember, he must have been, because

1:11:37

apparently cannotically, he dated Ida. From

1:11:40

outhouse, yeah, so... Oh, hot damn.

1:11:42

Yeah, the rest of us could

1:11:44

only wish. The joke, of course,

1:11:46

that I make is that they

1:11:48

must have actually had a, like,

1:11:51

illegitimate child, and that's Lillett. I

1:11:53

was going to say it was

1:11:55

Kayla. Okay, well, fair enough. Obviously,

1:11:57

even though Grunkel Stan doesn't, the...

1:12:01

gene is in there still. Yep,

1:12:03

yep, yep. That's true. Oh man,

1:12:05

that is really true. Yeah. But

1:12:07

no, yeah. Trying to come up

1:12:10

with a new character that didn't

1:12:12

feel like a K-L-R-2.0, but didn't

1:12:14

feel like I was purposely doing

1:12:16

the most opposite from K-L-R. I

1:12:19

also did research. It sucks, don't

1:12:21

it? Holy shit. Yeah. You watched

1:12:23

a lot of dairy girls. I

1:12:25

did, actually. I started re-watching dairy

1:12:28

girls. Because I was like, I

1:12:30

should listen to something with an

1:12:32

Irish accent in it to brush

1:12:34

up on that. Dairy Girls works.

1:12:37

The hardest thing for me was

1:12:39

probably conceiving, designing, executing, and post

1:12:41

producing the season four finale. It

1:12:43

involved audio engineering at like probably

1:12:46

a zenith for me so far

1:12:48

and also writing in highly mechanical

1:12:50

meter and weaving together a lot

1:12:52

of stuff and figuring out how

1:12:55

to pace things versus one another

1:12:57

at differing levels of mechanical immediacy

1:12:59

versus summary and restraining the urge

1:13:01

to write a novel because I

1:13:04

you know broke out of the

1:13:06

frame of player characters. So it

1:13:08

was just huge. I don't know

1:13:11

if I've even recovered quite from

1:13:13

doing it and it's been over

1:13:15

a year. That was going to

1:13:17

be my joke answer was making

1:13:20

Ret be a bad actor. God,

1:13:22

that was so good. Very good.

1:13:24

It was difficult to do, but

1:13:26

my real answer is outside of

1:13:29

the game stuff, and I'm not

1:13:31

here to trauma dump, but this

1:13:33

this past few years has been,

1:13:35

um, rough. And I'm sure it

1:13:38

has been for a lot of

1:13:40

people, but it has been exceedingly

1:13:42

difficult and having this community has

1:13:44

helped a lot. There's a reason

1:13:47

that the accolade was a while

1:13:49

ago and we haven't gotten back

1:13:51

to that group yet. I'm very

1:13:53

happy that we are going to.

1:13:56

I was thinking about I need

1:13:58

to come up with a way

1:14:00

to not? You know, I was

1:14:02

trying to have that in the

1:14:05

back pocket because I didn't want

1:14:07

to be like, come play a

1:14:09

game with me while everything is

1:14:11

on fire. I'm going to see

1:14:14

this through. Glad we could in

1:14:16

our small way help. So number

1:14:18

two, what is the Henry Colfax

1:14:20

book you are most interested in?

1:14:23

And briefly, how is the entity

1:14:25

being refrained? I thought of an

1:14:27

answer that I can't actually say

1:14:29

because it would spoil the shit

1:14:32

out of some stuff. So I

1:14:34

won't. My joke answer was everybody

1:14:36

poops, which is being used to

1:14:38

contain a tremors monster. I was

1:14:41

going to say anything by Chuck

1:14:43

Tingle. Yep. Yep, yep, yep. I

1:14:45

think it would be really interesting

1:14:47

if there was, what are the

1:14:50

like, kids-centric music theory kind of

1:14:52

books that are like introducing music

1:14:54

to kids and was containing, I

1:14:56

still think about the like sentient

1:14:59

composition from season one. Yeah. And

1:15:01

there was something like that in

1:15:03

there, because music isn't really Colfax's

1:15:05

deal, but like seeing, I would

1:15:08

imagine when you're really good at

1:15:10

one thing, not speaking from experience

1:15:12

from RPG's, you then figure out

1:15:14

how to cram every problem into

1:15:17

that one thing you're good at.

1:15:19

So it would be interesting to

1:15:21

see like a Colfax book that's

1:15:23

like a cookbook or something. Yeah.

1:15:26

Is not really. his realm but

1:15:28

needed to be and like what

1:15:30

is a whatever what is the

1:15:32

coifax version of not perfectly executed

1:15:35

or like cashing in like because

1:15:37

surely not every book is equally

1:15:39

as perfect no i mean i

1:15:41

remember being a looking at a

1:15:44

officially licensed Rick and Morde cookbook

1:15:46

that it was bad it was

1:15:48

so fucking awful like it's inconceivable

1:15:50

how bad this cookbook was did

1:15:53

it have the sesuan sauce well

1:15:55

I don't even think so like

1:15:57

typos incorrect allergy information unbelievably ideas

1:15:59

to tie things in. It was,

1:16:02

it was rough. Nice. A lot

1:16:04

of it was just regular recipes

1:16:06

with a silly name. Very low

1:16:08

effort. And they still managed to

1:16:11

fuck a lot of it up.

1:16:13

Yeah. The pickle Rick ingredient, get

1:16:15

pickle, put on plate. More or

1:16:17

less. Yeah, it was a lot

1:16:20

of like, make a peanut butter

1:16:22

and jelly sandwich. We gave it

1:16:24

a silly name. Yeah, it was,

1:16:26

it was awful. I think an

1:16:29

idea that just came to mind

1:16:31

sort of peering around my room

1:16:33

here. It would be one of

1:16:35

Colfax's Spanish language works and it

1:16:38

would be like a picture book

1:16:40

about a like a bad guy

1:16:42

wrestler, like a heel wrestler. And

1:16:45

it would be sort of binding

1:16:47

this entity that is like a

1:16:49

mask or series of masks that

1:16:51

basically can turn people evil. And

1:16:54

so the book is about this

1:16:56

evil lootidore slowly becoming a nice

1:16:58

person and saving the day. Really

1:17:00

like that. So I'm kind of

1:17:03

inspired by Shell Silverstein, where the

1:17:05

sidewalk ends, those kind of poetry

1:17:07

books when I was little. For

1:17:09

some reason, I always felt there

1:17:12

was some unease in the books.

1:17:14

So like the thing that's being

1:17:16

captured there is the thing at

1:17:18

the end of the sidewalk. You

1:17:21

know, whatever is beyond the end

1:17:23

of the sidewalk. And it's the

1:17:25

story would probably about two children

1:17:27

learning to overcome that fear and

1:17:30

make that fear smaller. I'm glad

1:17:32

to hear someone say that because

1:17:34

I've always kind of pictured coal

1:17:36

facts as like a Silverstein. Yeah,

1:17:39

like that's how I've kind of

1:17:41

tied them together because yeah, it's

1:17:43

like, it's just spooky. Like, like

1:17:45

it's cute, but it's still spooky.

1:17:48

I don't know. On some level,

1:17:50

he's telling you how to deal

1:17:52

with some real shit. Yeah. Yeah,

1:17:54

yeah, that's a very good, a

1:17:57

good parallel. Question three. the incredible

1:17:59

lineup of contributors over this last

1:18:01

season, what was a moment that

1:18:03

you wanted your character to be

1:18:06

able to contribute to, but they

1:18:08

were not present for? I'm just

1:18:10

gonna blank it. 401 I'm not

1:18:12

okay. I think

1:18:14

that would have been really fun

1:18:17

for Rhett to crash. It would

1:18:19

have zero sense. And Rhett would

1:18:21

have his hands full trying to

1:18:23

help those people. But honestly, they

1:18:26

really could use some psychiatrist. Yeah.

1:18:28

But that makes sense as an

1:18:30

answer too because I sort of

1:18:32

did a cheater move by importing

1:18:35

the chemistry of an entire podcast

1:18:37

into the show. Yeah, well. It

1:18:39

happens. And it works well. Yeah,

1:18:41

that's why it's a great arc.

1:18:43

They're chaotic. They had a lot

1:18:46

of fun for sure. Kit made

1:18:48

a lot of very good art

1:18:50

of the characters. It's kind of

1:18:52

hard for me to answer because

1:18:55

like... Yeah, I'm really looking forward

1:18:57

to my character getting back to

1:18:59

Mitch and meeting Phelan and all

1:19:01

that, but that's not really a

1:19:04

like, oh, I wish I was

1:19:06

there because I'm working on it.

1:19:08

Yeah, so, unless you die. Yeah.

1:19:10

Well, there were some times during,

1:19:13

uh, ish males and the DAS

1:19:15

long range cells, like, first clashes

1:19:17

with fecundity stuff, where I was

1:19:19

like, oh man, I wish I

1:19:22

was there. I could hit that

1:19:24

with a bat so good. Honestly,

1:19:26

uh, yes, that's going to be

1:19:28

my answer, but like, inverting the

1:19:30

question. There were points in the

1:19:33

first couple of fights was like,

1:19:35

like, God, I wish here, this

1:19:37

fucking sucks. God they get strain

1:19:39

what the fuck yeah what do

1:19:42

you mean yeah because like not

1:19:44

only does Mitch make the fight

1:19:46

end faster suddenly he makes it

1:19:48

so that you know roughly what

1:19:51

the enemy's results are going to

1:19:53

be yeah don't have anything to

1:19:55

spend because Mitch fucked him up.

1:19:57

Yeah. Yeah. In a way it's

1:20:00

good that that's an ability that

1:20:02

did change at one point, that

1:20:04

at one point the overload was

1:20:06

just they don't get any defenses

1:20:09

whatsoever. So it did get slightly

1:20:11

nervous to they are allowed to

1:20:13

spend a strain one for one,

1:20:15

but only for one for one

1:20:18

and never for more. And also

1:20:20

they don't get armor or anything.

1:20:22

Yeah. But that in a way

1:20:24

makes it more effective for long-term

1:20:26

fights against things that have a

1:20:29

lot of health anyway, because like

1:20:31

they have to spend the strain,

1:20:33

so it hits them where it

1:20:35

really hurts. Yep, yeah. It makes

1:20:38

it less of an instant kill

1:20:40

against a like rival, like a

1:20:42

player character built thing, and more

1:20:44

of a real bane to giant

1:20:47

monstrous bosses, which feels very good

1:20:49

for your like weapon bearer archetype.

1:20:51

That ability is fuck off ghost

1:20:53

like that is you take that

1:20:56

if you want to. Good shit.

1:20:58

Question 4. With copyright disregarded and

1:21:00

budget dismissed what musical reference motif

1:21:02

full soundtrack sound effects Would you

1:21:05

add in, and when in the

1:21:07

series would it be, and what

1:21:09

is it in order to enhance

1:21:11

or increase the impact of a

1:21:13

specific scene to you? This isn't

1:21:16

meant to disregard the amount of

1:21:18

work that Rob does with the

1:21:20

sound tracking and the effort taken

1:21:22

with the motifs of music so

1:21:25

far, but I was interested in

1:21:27

hearing about choices made with restrictions

1:21:29

being loosened, like Carlos Playing House

1:21:31

of the Rising Sun or Black

1:21:34

Bird in the Shutter. immediately springing

1:21:36

to mine because I thought of

1:21:38

this as I was making the

1:21:40

character if we were not worried

1:21:43

about copyright strikes or had infinite

1:21:45

money anytime Ishmael does something really

1:21:47

cool with magic or his gun

1:21:49

triumphantly I would want painted black

1:21:52

playing in the background I feel

1:21:54

like that's very much I mean,

1:21:56

the number one one for me,

1:21:58

I just committed a little bit

1:22:01

of a little bit of crime

1:22:03

and just got a karaoke version

1:22:05

of Welcome to the Black Parade

1:22:07

and played it. was so great.

1:22:09

So that's my answer. But I

1:22:12

would have done the actual song,

1:22:14

like if I felt I could

1:22:16

have gotten away with it. See,

1:22:18

one of my favorite musical motifs

1:22:21

is already in there because you

1:22:23

found a way to put it

1:22:25

in there and that's to Zanerken?

1:22:27

Oh, it's one of my favorite

1:22:30

pieces ever. So the fact that

1:22:32

it is in the show every

1:22:34

time it comes on, I get

1:22:36

Tyria. Well, Mu did a great

1:22:39

cover of it and I'm allowed

1:22:41

to use it and that's awesome.

1:22:43

Interestingly, there's a side note. There's

1:22:45

a survival horror game coming out

1:22:48

sometime next year that like they

1:22:50

hired him to compose the whole

1:22:52

score, like the original score and

1:22:54

the one track that I've heard

1:22:56

from it so far, like sounds

1:22:59

fucking great. And I'm very interested

1:23:01

to play it, but I'm equally

1:23:03

interested almost to hear like. What

1:23:05

about you doing your own compositions?

1:23:08

Sort of in the vein of

1:23:10

a Kiryama-oka Silent Hill soundtracks, but

1:23:12

like with your own spin on

1:23:14

it and modern composition technology and

1:23:17

stuff. I think it's gonna be

1:23:19

very cool. Anyway, and then the

1:23:21

the next bit is basically three

1:23:23

people asking versions of the same

1:23:26

question and looking towards the future.

1:23:28

Yes. There are some more specifics

1:23:30

in the last one. That's why

1:23:32

I put it last. All of

1:23:35

these are directed at Rob, but

1:23:37

obviously, you know, chime in where

1:23:39

you can. Gilded Growth asks, my

1:23:41

big question is with a distant

1:23:44

but visible finish line, what's next

1:23:46

for the feed? Will we get

1:23:48

more small series of this system

1:23:50

or do you plan on giving

1:23:52

a few other systems a try

1:23:55

before picking up the Mighty Protocols

1:23:57

again? And we should probably also

1:23:59

roll into the next question as

1:24:01

well because I'll answer them very,

1:24:04

very equally. And Marasempa adds, because

1:24:06

we are coming at the in-game

1:24:08

for Orpheus and I want to

1:24:10

ask what's next? Another game, another

1:24:13

podcast, booth? I want to know

1:24:15

what to be excited about. Depending

1:24:17

on time frames, there will be

1:24:19

a variable amount of stuff on

1:24:22

the feed in between Orpheus and

1:24:24

the next big thing. think that

1:24:26

putting some fun one-shots or short,

1:24:28

like, standalone adventures in would be

1:24:31

fun. Trying out some other systems

1:24:33

might be fun. Like I said,

1:24:35

I'm working on a dice-list game.

1:24:37

Whether it's going to be on

1:24:39

Patreon or the main feed, like,

1:24:42

there's going to be some stuff

1:24:44

made in that for sure. But

1:24:46

to answer more specifically, Marosempa's version

1:24:48

of the question is that the

1:24:51

answer is both, yes. there is

1:24:53

a big role-playing game project that

1:24:55

I'm in the very very early

1:24:57

to the point of like consciously

1:25:00

forcing myself not to work on

1:25:02

it so that I can properly

1:25:04

finish Orpheus and not get shiny

1:25:06

new thing disease. But like I

1:25:09

have, I know what I'm doing

1:25:11

next for my next big game

1:25:13

project. And it is going to

1:25:15

be like Orpheus in that the

1:25:18

Alpha Beta development of the game

1:25:20

will be chronicled in a gigantic

1:25:22

podcast format where we're playing through

1:25:24

it discovering what needs to be

1:25:26

made and refined and stuff and

1:25:29

doing a big old epic story.

1:25:31

Although a slightly different vibe of

1:25:33

storytelling than Orpheus, I'll probably keep

1:25:35

that part a little more under

1:25:38

wraps for now. Suppose it to

1:25:40

say, I'm tackling the challenge of

1:25:42

designing a game that is tailor-made

1:25:44

to do the kind of things

1:25:47

in play and in storytelling that

1:25:49

I think often get short shrift

1:25:51

in actual play podcasts and at

1:25:53

tables for most role-playing games that

1:25:56

I've played. and certainly getting some

1:25:58

strengths mechanically designed in into areas

1:26:00

that I have felt Orpheus did

1:26:02

not particularly shine in having a

1:26:05

very different focus but we will

1:26:07

leave it at that for the

1:26:09

moment anyway. And last but not

1:26:11

least from Lucretia Rob listening to

1:26:14

the latest LLLs it struck me

1:26:16

that the Orpheus protocol has went

1:26:18

through three for depending on how

1:26:20

you relate to the future stuff

1:26:22

of different hardness. That's a considerable

1:26:25

number of resets, and I wonder,

1:26:27

what keeps the ongoing story going?

1:26:29

Why new stories in the same

1:26:31

world and whatnot are explored only

1:26:34

on side content? Why has the

1:26:36

show never chosen, rather than a

1:26:38

reset, to end the story and

1:26:40

move on to a new story?

1:26:43

Is there some sense of obligation

1:26:45

to have a connective thread between

1:26:47

arcs, even after resets? Is it

1:26:49

all because of Mitch? pretty much

1:26:52

the only protagonist that remains consistent

1:26:54

through the resets. I'm genuinely curious

1:26:56

how, as a storyteller and showrunner,

1:26:58

you see the choices before you

1:27:01

and the pros and cons of

1:27:03

the possibilities before you, and what

1:27:05

Orpheus gains with each new reset

1:27:07

with new casts of characters converging

1:27:09

into the arcing plot. I love

1:27:12

this question. And I think really

1:27:14

looking at it, ultimately the answer

1:27:16

is yes, it's all about Mitch.

1:27:18

There is a sense of exploring

1:27:21

different aspects of the cosmology and

1:27:23

big powers at play in the

1:27:25

world of Orpheus, sure. There is

1:27:27

real life stuff where the cast

1:27:30

goes through a certain amount of

1:27:32

churn, but like the one consistent

1:27:34

thing, again, is Mitch's story, and

1:27:36

that is something that I cannot

1:27:39

even imagine, like it makes my

1:27:41

flesh crawl to consider for a

1:27:43

moment not giving that story a

1:27:45

satisfactory ending. And I think that

1:27:48

the feeling of Mitch's journey being

1:27:50

the linchpin, like the central backbone

1:27:52

of this great and strange beast

1:27:54

that has been the Orpheus Protocol

1:27:57

podcast, really has been the North

1:27:59

Star. Like that has been what's

1:28:01

allowed me to understand the kind

1:28:03

of story that we're telling. like,

1:28:05

really it was when things came

1:28:08

to ahead at the end of

1:28:10

season two, and I made the

1:28:12

decision to throw Mitch into that

1:28:14

future timeline, that was the point

1:28:17

at which I knew that ultimately

1:28:19

we were telling a very long

1:28:21

epic story about Mitch Hook. and

1:28:23

exploring, sort of doing, serving the

1:28:26

many masters of exploring this world

1:28:28

and developing this game and building

1:28:30

a community and all this stuff,

1:28:32

but all of that was orbiting

1:28:35

around a hero's journey, that is

1:28:37

the story of Mitch Hook, and

1:28:39

wherever he ultimately ends up. So

1:28:41

that's why it's not a new

1:28:44

story. It's a evolving story. And

1:28:46

yeah, I'm looking forward to actually

1:28:48

doing a proper, this is a

1:28:50

new story, but we're doing that

1:28:52

with a new game system too.

1:28:55

There will be several similarities, but

1:28:57

not all. Like I have a

1:28:59

lot of making this podcast and

1:29:01

making this game has taught me.

1:29:04

what I want to make next

1:29:06

in many ways. And I am

1:29:08

looking forward to doing that. But

1:29:10

yeah, ultimately, Mitch emerged, despite not

1:29:13

initially being planned this way, as

1:29:15

like, kind of the ultimate perspective

1:29:17

on the world of Orpheus. As

1:29:19

long as Mitch has further to

1:29:22

go, the show isn't over. Hmm,

1:29:24

that was the final question. That

1:29:26

was. Do I want to say,

1:29:28

how much is it safe to

1:29:31

say about what is happening next?

1:29:33

Everyone's probably salivating listening to this.

1:29:35

Well, you can always say it

1:29:37

and then bleep it. That's true.

1:29:40

God, wouldn't that be a kind

1:29:42

of thing to do? Yeah, you

1:29:44

can do that. And

1:29:46

wouldn't you know it? You

1:29:48

lucky little goobers, Rob has

1:29:50

decided to be magnanimous in

1:29:52

their forthrightness. Yeah, I will

1:29:55

not say much, but I

1:29:57

think that dark fantasy is

1:29:59

an underserved... in

1:30:01

tabletop role-playing games, which sounds insane

1:30:03

because there are a hundred thousand

1:30:05

of them, but so many of

1:30:07

them are just D&D with edgier

1:30:10

art or old-school D&D clone stuff.

1:30:12

Not many games have fantasy that

1:30:14

truly feels dark and scary. And

1:30:16

so yeah, the next big project

1:30:18

after Orpheus, I am going to

1:30:21

attempt to design a game that

1:30:23

is medieval horror, is how I'm

1:30:25

calling it. As distinct from Dark

1:30:27

Fantasy, I want it to be

1:30:29

a horror game set in an

1:30:32

original, like a secondary world creation

1:30:34

that I am working on, like

1:30:36

a bespoke setting, a bespoke fantasy

1:30:38

setting, but I want it to

1:30:40

feel like a horror story as

1:30:42

much as it feels like fantasy.

1:30:45

So stay tuned. I'm very excited

1:30:47

to bring that to the world

1:30:49

at some point after ludicrous numbers

1:30:51

of hours of work. If anybody

1:30:53

wanted to do any reading in

1:30:56

that kind of space, do you

1:30:58

have any recommendations? Oh, good question.

1:31:00

Yeah, I certainly do. The Avaroyne

1:31:02

stories from Clark Ashton Smith are

1:31:04

like that. A lot of the

1:31:07

old Conan stories have that feel

1:31:09

to them. Christopher Billmans between two

1:31:11

fires is like dead, solid, that

1:31:13

vibe. Really, really good in that

1:31:15

way. That's probably the end of

1:31:17

those recommendations for now because I

1:31:20

don't know how good to some

1:31:22

of the other recommendations are. I

1:31:24

have a big old fiction reading

1:31:26

list that I'm like my reading

1:31:28

list to sort of research for

1:31:31

this next project is half fiction

1:31:33

and half history and I'm working

1:31:35

on that. So I'll have more

1:31:37

things to say whether I think

1:31:39

they're good representations of that vibe

1:31:42

or not. But right now, those

1:31:44

are the ones that I can

1:31:46

say, like, yeah, definitely look at

1:31:48

those. And Berserk, honestly. But, you

1:31:50

know, everyone knows Berserk's great. So,

1:31:52

Dark Soul. But I repeat myself.

1:31:55

I just wanted to say to

1:31:57

the, to the. the show on

1:31:59

the call here I that gift

1:32:01

that I did was oh my

1:32:03

god between two fires was what

1:32:06

I was fishing before yeah and

1:32:08

you caught it and then little

1:32:10

it came in with the with

1:32:12

this herronimus Bosch ass I keep

1:32:14

saying ass but it's very I

1:32:17

mean there's a reason you say

1:32:19

ass yeah illuminated manuscript marginalia stop

1:32:21

trumpet of a centaur with a

1:32:23

face for a face for a

1:32:25

butt and the butt face is

1:32:28

playing a trumpet Yeah,

1:32:30

I hate to break it to

1:32:32

some people, but medieval people loved

1:32:34

making butts playing trumpet. Yeah, well,

1:32:36

it's a fun joke. Oh, and

1:32:39

of marginalia art. That is just

1:32:41

like... Parenthesis, F, art. Yes. See,

1:32:43

it's fun. I thought you were

1:32:45

going to say, I hate to

1:32:48

break it to people, but this

1:32:50

is what peak masculinity looks like.

1:32:52

All right, well, thank y'all so

1:32:54

much for listening. Yes, eight years.

1:32:57

I, like, I know we're doing

1:32:59

at least one more of these.

1:33:01

I don't know if we're actually

1:33:04

getting to a decade. I'm not

1:33:06

gonna like Namic Saga this out

1:33:08

and make it last that many

1:33:10

episodes just to hit the the

1:33:13

milestone. Well, you won't, but Nick

1:33:15

and I will. Yeah. I was

1:33:17

going to say, the players may

1:33:19

have something to say about that.

1:33:22

Yeah, but we're going to get

1:33:24

to this. Somebody earlier said, I've

1:33:26

seen your arcs speaking to me,

1:33:28

and I was like, it's not

1:33:31

just me. I'm primarily, but it's

1:33:33

not just me. It's, we're going

1:33:35

to get to that door that

1:33:38

says, please save, are you sure

1:33:40

you want to continue? And me

1:33:42

and Lily are going to go,

1:33:44

actually, before that, I want to

1:33:47

tell you a story. First off,

1:33:49

we need to play some baseball.

1:33:51

Except a version of baseball where

1:33:53

when you score a run, you

1:33:56

confirm the point by telling a

1:33:58

long win. about adventure

1:34:00

from your from your path.

1:34:02

Yeah, Yeah, but yeah,

1:34:05

I am to to be as

1:34:07

it was said in the

1:34:09

question like a maybe distant, but a visible

1:34:11

finish line line. We're gonna know, if know