0:07

Hello everyone, this is Rob,

0:10

and welcome back to Lore

0:12

Liars and Liars. Today we're going

0:14

to be discussing the City

0:16

on Fire arc of Season 3.

0:19

In City on Fire, Dan

0:21

plays Mitch, and Ben

0:23

plays Kay. City

0:27

on Fire, Part 1. In the

0:29

sewers beneath the nightmare city,

0:31

Mitch meets Kay, a leader in

0:33

the human resistance against the

0:35

city's monstrous masters. Kay recognizes Mitch's

0:37

baseball bat as an artifact

0:39

of the distant past, and turns

0:41

out to speak fluent English

0:44

due to his studies of ancient

0:46

magics. Kay takes Mitch

0:48

through the sprawling undercity, a result

0:50

of long years of work

0:52

reclaiming sunken districts from early and

0:54

unsuccessful attempts to raise a

0:56

city with stone magic. Mitch

0:59

demonstrates the nightmare hunting techniques of

1:01

Sycamore, along with his own fighting

1:03

style, with many of the resistance

1:05

watching and wishing to learn. Kay

1:07

deduces that Mitch comes from the past,

1:09

and guesses that Mitch's destiny is tied

1:11

to the work of Kay's master,

1:13

the sorcerer. With this discovery

1:15

in mind, Kay asks for Mitch's help

1:18

in an upcoming raid to free

1:20

a group of slave laborers, including Basha

1:22

and Pardo. City

1:24

on Fire, Part 2. Kay

1:27

explains to Mitch that they must secure

1:29

food and supplies before making any

1:31

big moves in case of a lockdown

1:34

response. He does neglect

1:36

to mention, though, that his certainty

1:38

of that response stems more

1:40

from the example -setting slaughter of

1:42

human overseers he has planned without

1:44

Mitch's knowledge. Kay plans

1:46

the operations, grappling with the difficulty

1:48

of navigating the magical security

1:50

alarms seeded throughout the city. He

1:53

and Mitch opt for a fast break

1:55

offensive strategy, focusing on getting as

1:57

many supplies as possible as quickly as

1:59

possible. visible, rather than spreading manpower too

2:01

thin in an uncertain bid to

2:03

silence the alarms. The supply

2:06

train is hemmed in by improvised

2:08

explosives and barricades, and the battle

2:10

is joined. The rebel plan initially

2:12

seems successful, but the revelation that

2:14

the train contains one of the

2:16

stone mages throws all into chaos

2:18

as the trap begins to grow

2:20

new exits. City

2:23

on Fire, Part 3 Mitch

2:26

and Kay hunt down the stone

2:28

mage through blood, flame, and the

2:30

chaos of battle, with Kay displaying

2:32

incredible arcane prowess throughout. While

2:34

they manage to find and assassinate

2:36

the mage, they're horrified to find that

2:38

time has run out. The Inquisition

2:41

has arrived. City

2:43

on Fire, Part 4 Kay

2:46

signals the retreat, and he and Mitch

2:48

make the decision to stay behind and

2:50

delay the Inquisitors to help secure the

2:52

Raiders' escape. Mitch unleashes his

2:54

full power, demolishing a huge wall

2:56

and dropping it on his monstrous

2:59

attackers. They use the momentary

3:01

opportunity to escape with the Raiders,

3:03

who celebrate their great victory. However,

3:06

while they tend to the ailing Vajra,

3:08

whose magic sustained the revolution through

3:10

its infancy until it consumed him, word

3:13

arrives that the nightmares are

3:15

executing a random human every 60

3:17

seconds until Mitch and Kay

3:19

are brought before them. City

3:21

on Fire, Part 5 Kay

3:25

and a young rebel fighter named Danad

3:27

scout ahead to find the best

3:29

exit from the undercity from which to

3:31

stage their desperate response to the

3:33

ruthless executions. They plan to

3:35

have Mitch collapse the stone magic -made

3:37

platform on which the slaughter proceeds

3:39

after seating the crowd with rumors

3:41

that the true rebellion begins today.

3:44

Meanwhile, the nightmares spout

3:46

vile propaganda against the rebellion. The

3:49

platform indeed does collapse into the

3:51

undercity under Mitch's force, and

3:53

Kay manages to disable the Inquisitor

3:55

performing the executions with an

3:57

arrow shot to the eye with

3:59

- than striking the death blow. Kay

4:02

emerges from the pit with the

4:04

head of the Inquisitor impaled on its

4:06

own pike, and the crowd explodes

4:08

into righteous violence. At the

4:10

same time, Vajra hijacks the magical

4:12

security systems to show the birth

4:14

of this rebellion to the entire

4:16

city. The resistance is

4:18

forced into a retreat, but the fire

4:20

is lit. Danad is

4:22

briefly possessed by Vajra who says he

4:24

has lost his human form but

4:27

has one last card to play as

4:29

he's located another stone mage who

4:31

is vulnerable to a surprise attack. Vajra

4:34

consumes the stone mage's stolen human

4:36

soul, granting a boon of healing

4:38

and vitality to his allies before

4:40

vanishing from this world. City

4:44

on Fire, Part 6 Mitch,

4:47

now partially possessed by the spirit of

4:49

the P -72, is compelled to get

4:51

back to the surface and join

4:53

the fight. Kay sends Danad to watch

4:55

his back, while Kay himself consults

4:58

the stars to gain insight into the

5:00

new future evolving in the city

5:02

and organizes the arming of as much

5:04

of the populace as possible. On

5:06

the surface, Mitch leads by example

5:08

and serves as a symbol of

5:10

inspiration, leading a horde of increasingly

5:12

armed civilians into the heart of

5:14

the Nightmare's power, a doomed effort

5:17

unless Kay has another trick up

5:19

his sleeve. Kay's sleeve,

5:21

in this case, is reassuringly

5:23

full. He's ready to execute a

5:25

long cultivated secret plan to

5:27

divert many of the Nightmare's guarding

5:29

the castle down into the

5:32

undercity, and there overload their senses

5:34

with delicious fear driving them

5:36

into a frenzy of cannibalism. Mitch

5:39

and the rebel horde attack the

5:41

now partially defended castle gate, while

5:43

Kay hunts down the Queen Mother,

5:45

a horrific eldritch enhanced human brood

5:47

sow who provides the Nightmare's with

5:50

the magically sensitive babies that fuel

5:52

their society, a tortured

5:54

innocent who must be killed to

5:56

protect the future. While searching

5:58

the fear factories the the Queen's

6:00

secret nursery, Kay is ambushed by

6:02

the necrotic magics of one of

6:05

the nightmare arbiters who floods the

6:07

prison with the living dead. The

6:09

castle gates open, and a

6:11

last desperate cavalry charge of

6:13

nightmares threatens to overwhelm and

6:15

break the rebellion. City on Fire,

6:17

Part 8. Kay fights through the factory,

6:20

sabotaging a fear extractor to make

6:22

himself and his allies more or

6:24

less invisible to the nightmares. though

6:26

at the cost of flooding the

6:28

place with pure fear. At the gate,

6:30

Basha and Pardo lead a new

6:33

force trained in the hunting technique

6:35

of Sycamore, who have a stolen

6:37

fear extractor of their own. They clear

6:39

the way for Mitch to enter the

6:41

castle, where he makes for 733's chambers,

6:43

but falls under the shadow of one

6:45

of the arbiters. Beneath the factory,

6:48

Kay executes the Queen Mother,

6:50

and the arbiter of decay

6:52

vows disproportionate revenge. Mitch, meanwhile,

6:54

faces the arbiter of despair, but draws

6:57

on the strength of all the people

6:59

who have supported and been inspired by

7:01

him to shatter the psychic darkness in

7:03

which he is immersed. He destroys the

7:06

arbiter and hears the tide turning all

7:08

over the city. They exit the castle,

7:10

and 733 announces that she is no

7:12

longer a princess. The people of the

7:15

city are now free. 733 decides that

7:17

she must leave the city, which is

7:19

better off forgetting the legacy she represents

7:21

she represents the legacy she represents. Kay's

7:24

parting gift to

7:27

Mitch is a

7:29

map leading to

7:32

a place called

7:34

the Inviolate

7:37

Stone, which is

7:40

said by his

7:42

master the sorcerer

7:45

to be the

7:48

next step in

7:50

Mitch's journey. tectonic

7:52

shifting society altering

7:55

arc. I have

7:57

with me perennial

7:59

co-host. Manhattan hello, it

8:01

is I Manhattan and the

8:03

breaker of stone himself

8:05

Dan How you doing doing

8:07

all right? Yeah? That

8:09

was a fucking wild arc

8:11

and so it was bananas. I

8:13

you know, there were a

8:16

couple things that I Remembered but

8:18

before we get there. I

8:20

think the first question that I

8:22

really have is what has

8:24

a higher DV flipping

8:26

a fan boat or

8:28

Knocking over a nightmare

8:32

With just like off like the side

8:34

because there was like a point

8:36

where you like you just you hoisted

8:38

a nightmare and Flipped it over so

8:41

that the people could eat him like not

8:43

eat him so that they could like

8:45

yon and people could stab him And I

8:47

was like what had a higher oh

8:49

the nightmare for sure although in fairness.

8:51

That's because the fan boat was in water

8:53

Like if a fan boat was just

8:55

sitting there all the fan boats don't fight

8:58

back. I don't know man Yeah,

9:01

probably the nightmare And

9:03

you still did it you like it's just

9:05

such a great image of like, you

9:07

know watching Oh, think of like thinking of

9:09

like a horse like a big horse

9:11

like falling over It's like when a it's

9:13

like when a like a big dog

9:15

stands on its legs And then like kind

9:17

of topples a little backwards. You're like,

9:19

oh no, none of this is gonna end

9:21

put right good for any of us

9:23

Yeah, like I Don't know

9:25

how much do you all

9:27

remember about actually playing the

9:30

that session because I

9:32

Have a shockingly There were things

9:34

I forgot I forgot that K kills

9:36

the Queen. I forgot I forgot that

9:39

Oh, man, that was like a whole

9:41

that was a whole thing. Yeah, this

9:43

actually I think came up at the

9:45

Q &A a little while ago I

9:47

had forgotten that Basha had died at

9:49

the end of the arc and I

9:52

think that's because it didn't happen on

9:54

screen Me yeah, we didn't play it

9:56

my my mind didn't latch onto it

9:58

like we played the scene perfectly fine

10:00

just like the the impact didn't

10:02

hit me over time just because

10:04

we heard about it and then there

10:06

was another gap and then mild

10:09

spoilers we did another arc yeah but

10:11

that was one of the ones

10:13

that I was sort of surprised

10:15

to forget there were other things that

10:17

I definitely had trouble remembering directly

10:19

like I remembered coming up out of

10:21

the ground with Vajra's sort of

10:23

dis -corporated spirit and that something crazy

10:26

happened but I'd forgotten exactly what

10:28

it was that he like basically like

10:30

ate a stone mage's stolen soul

10:32

and fed it to you

10:34

guys to get you back in

10:36

the fight yeah exactly yeah

10:38

he basically mama birded a human

10:41

soul into your mouth like

10:43

into everyone's mouth like but I

10:45

had and I the what

10:47

the real question that I have

10:49

is I am shockingly competent

10:51

and I don't mean to like

10:53

like like I was surprised

10:55

how competent K comes across oh

10:58

yeah like a fucking stone

11:00

cold badass general every time you

11:02

would pull out a skill that

11:04

was just ludicrously specific I

11:06

was clapping my hands yeah I

11:08

remember making it like by

11:10

the way here's the thing I've

11:12

been doing for the last

11:14

several months to allow me to

11:16

like we really see we

11:18

really see Batman killing the Justice

11:20

League here you know like

11:22

and I remember certain things being

11:24

Rob like when we started

11:26

playing you were like by the

11:28

way you have stolen a

11:30

fear your extra actor that wasn't Ben

11:32

Hatton's plan that was like you

11:34

had that I was like cool

11:36

and you were like okay great

11:39

but I couldn't remember other things

11:41

but I was just like is

11:43

it just the fact that I

11:45

only play such dumb characters like

11:47

such stupid dummies that when I

11:49

get a character where I'm not

11:52

dumbing myself down to play them

11:54

I can do like I'm really

11:56

not trying I know this is

11:58

coming across as boastful But I was

12:00

trying to remember like how much of

12:03

it we had so many conversations I

12:05

remember we had a lot of conversations

12:07

we Yeah, everything was so collaborative. They're

12:09

going underneath the hitting the the like

12:11

the the killing with the thing through

12:13

his eye. Like, there were so many

12:15

cool, like, it was, I remember just

12:17

having so much fun, all of us

12:20

just like playing and riffing with one

12:22

another, but I was like, how much,

12:24

I cannot remember for the life of

12:26

me, how much of this was me,

12:28

and how much of which was all

12:30

of us, and maybe it doesn't matter,

12:32

right? Like, maybe. Yeah, I mean, a

12:35

lot of that's on the cutting room

12:37

floor, like, like, it's been long enough,

12:39

I don't remember, I don't remember, with

12:41

the plan of versus like just stuff

12:43

we came up with. subjectively my memory

12:45

of it was a lot of like,

12:47

oh wouldn't it be cool if this

12:49

happened and then everyone throwing some ingredients

12:51

into the stew? Yeah there's a bit

12:53

where I say aloud I'm trying to

12:55

think of a cool thing to do

12:57

here instead of just bonk in a

12:59

guy and Rob you had the idea

13:02

of collapsing the sand pile that Mitch

13:04

was standing on and there was I

13:06

think that was indicative that was something

13:08

that made it on to the broadcast

13:10

that I think we were doing a

13:12

fair amount of just throughout the session just

13:14

like I would like for this to happen

13:16

or I would like to explore this and

13:19

then we would figure it out and

13:21

do it who's got a cool

13:23

image for this yeah yeah and

13:25

it was awesome and also like

13:27

So many good speeches, like Mitch

13:29

gave great speeches. It was just

13:31

like city of like really great

13:33

speeches was awesome. But I remember

13:35

one thing, like I remember wanting

13:37

it and I've actually waited so

13:39

long till we got here because

13:41

now it's silly because of how

13:43

much has happened. But I don't

13:45

remember if I don't know if

13:47

either of you remember how badly.

13:50

I wanted to kill

13:52

733 like I wanted

13:54

I wanted I wanted

13:56

K to kill 733

13:58

or try to and

14:00

then have to fight Mitch. Now look at listening

14:02

to it, I was like, oh, that would have

14:04

been a terrible idea and it wouldn't have worked

14:06

and blah blah blah. But I do remember like

14:09

the two of you just like subtly being like,

14:11

all right, we're gonna go over here now. All

14:13

right, we're gonna go over here now. I do

14:15

not remember that. No. Yeah. I'll try to

14:17

say it. Like, yeah, there was a lot of

14:20

like, hey Rob, what do you think if I

14:22

was just like gonna try to try to kill

14:24

733? Well here is someone like in a square

14:26

like what do you think if I tried to

14:29

kill well now you've got to kill these stone

14:31

majors and I was it was there was a

14:33

lot of like hey let's just turn Ben's ADHD

14:35

head over this way oh my god I kind

14:37

of remember that a little bit as I remember

14:40

listening to it just now thinking being kind of

14:42

like there's only a bit of that that comes

14:44

out into the show like Kay is kind

14:46

of considering how much of a,

14:48

how big a blast ridious his

14:50

regicide is going to need to

14:52

be against the human oral family.

14:55

And so it comes up a

14:57

little bit, but we kind of

14:59

brush past it fairly quickly. But

15:01

I kind of remember that there

15:03

was like, are a member feeling

15:05

a bit protective of 733 in

15:07

that session? And so if you

15:09

kind of remember being like, oh

15:11

yeah, be so dramatic to off

15:13

this child, that I can, that

15:15

makes my recollection to make a

15:17

degree of sense. Yeah. Everybody's got

15:19

to say everybody's got to die.

15:22

It was one of those things.

15:24

One of those things. arcs where

15:26

you know you go like the

15:28

first one's like zero to 30

15:30

right mitches you know scrubbing himself

15:32

getting some pumice stone working out

15:34

you know and then two through

15:36

eight is just like we have

15:38

to hold we have to floor

15:40

it for the rest of the

15:42

art yeah everyone was kind of

15:44

getting ready and recovering from the

15:46

last one and then like the

15:48

rest of the arc was just

15:50

development after development in this

15:53

ongoing escalation where you kind

15:55

of end up turning the

15:57

populace against their oppressors. Which

16:00

that's a theme that I really

16:02

enjoyed in this is that like

16:04

you needed to get the overall

16:07

population on your side like there

16:09

just wasn't enough even if you

16:11

did everything perfect Right you needed

16:13

every rock every stick every fingernail

16:16

and tooth you know all working

16:18

toward the same goal regardless of

16:20

how strong or weak they are

16:22

individually Yeah, no, it's very true

16:24

is that and it's kind of

16:27

feels good you know, you think

16:29

about it with everything going and

16:31

being what it is. It was

16:33

just, and then looking back on

16:35

what was happening, if I remember

16:37

correctly, these were like, right, like

16:39

2019, I think this was. I

16:41

think Rob mentions that at the

16:43

beginning of the, uh, the last

16:46

episode in the artwork Rob talks

16:48

about. Yeah, is that, is that,

16:50

oh, I sure hope 2020 2020

16:52

is a good year for everyone.

16:54

And then just like, and then

16:56

just like, Jesus, Jesus, fucking. Right

16:58

like But I need to keep

17:00

my fucking mouth shut is

17:02

what I'm learning here Yeah,

17:05

we did have some ups

17:07

in the in the show

17:09

coming up as far as

17:11

like not for the characters

17:13

I wouldn't say but like

17:16

in terms of quality like

17:18

some good stuff happened in

17:20

the show in 2020. Oh

17:22

definitely. I was reminded of

17:25

diaspora being the next arc

17:27

which I had just sort

17:29

of forgotten about and I'm

17:32

looking forward to talking about

17:34

that one if I'm on

17:36

if I'm on those episodes.

17:38

like how can we make

17:41

the next one crazy right

17:43

like you've got first there's

17:45

the raid for supplies and

17:47

then the like stopping of

17:50

the slaughter of innocent people

17:52

and then I mean this

17:54

was to date Mitch's

17:56

largest damage like

17:58

this held record

18:00

for a long time. For

18:02

a long time. It was

18:04

like 32 points of damage.

18:07

It's a lot of damage.

18:09

It is. Oh yeah. Everyone's

18:11

like getting obliterated all the

18:13

time. It was just really

18:15

interesting. I thought it was

18:17

really interesting. I really, there

18:19

were a lot of cool.

18:21

In some ways it to

18:23

me, it plays into the

18:25

most kingly Mitch appears in

18:27

a really long time. Yeah. Also

18:30

to circle back to the

18:32

supply raid just it struck

18:34

me listening to it man

18:36

it just like a fight

18:38

a set-piece fight in a

18:40

tabletop role-playing game can benefit

18:42

so enormously from having unique

18:44

interesting terrain that it's taking

18:46

place on yeah because so

18:48

much crazy shit happens in

18:50

that fight that is just

18:52

because it is a kind

18:54

of unique strange setting for the

18:56

fight. Yeah the terraces with the

18:59

ramps between them with the carts

19:01

on the terraces and going up

19:03

the ramps like the sheer number

19:05

of things that can happen especially

19:08

when somebody is playing oh what's

19:10

the name of that game that

19:12

was so famous for having destructible

19:15

terrain red faction yeah the ancient

19:17

one yeah yeah when somebody's playing

19:19

red faction in the middle of

19:21

your your role-playing game session it's

19:24

yeah it's really a pearl of

19:26

wisdom to take away for GM's

19:28

is like having that developed terrain situation

19:30

in a set piece fight. Even if

19:33

you don't have everything planned out exactly

19:35

how it works, like the players are

19:37

going to come up with really cool

19:40

shit because they're imagining something more than

19:42

just like the final fantasy lineup going

19:44

back and forth hitting each other. Right.

19:47

And so it's like they're going to

19:49

come up with really cool cinematic stuff.

19:51

It's like even if you don't know

19:54

every detail of exactly how all this

19:56

terrain stuff's going to work and

19:58

everything that's possible. way. Yeah and

20:00

if you're playing a game like Orpheus

20:02

that has a good resource system kind of

20:05

economy it's a good spot like one of

20:07

the things that I really appreciated listening to

20:09

was when Mitch is trying to break up

20:11

stone and then drop it on the inquisitor's

20:14

heads. I asked about whether I would have

20:16

to overload or use one of the ranks

20:18

and Rob basically gave me the option to

20:20

do a role for a probable

20:23

result and a lower expenditure of

20:25

humanity or use the overload and

20:27

to definitely get what I was

20:29

angling for without having to roll. Yeah,

20:32

yeah. And that's just a good,

20:34

that's a good thing to remember,

20:36

that if your players are willing

20:38

to expend resources or take disadvantages

20:40

or whatever, then yeah, give them

20:42

stuff, because now they've hurt themselves.

20:44

Like, right. Yeah, the juice is

20:46

reduced. like and that that means

20:48

they're gonna have more problems later

20:50

with something and like that's fine

20:52

like that's a fine way to

20:54

do it on that note it

20:57

is funny how much the two

20:59

of us were kind of panicking

21:01

about getting to 50 humanity maybe

21:03

we should talk about that more

21:05

in the spoiler zone but uh

21:07

I mean oh quaint old times

21:09

I mean the fact that you

21:11

get you get down to 24

21:13

I do get down pretty rapidly

21:16

I'm like oh no I hit

21:18

50 oh no I hit 25

21:20

Well, like, like, like, what's so

21:22

funny to me is you just

21:24

keep hearing me mutter? Like, the

21:26

whole, like, holy shit, 24, like,

21:28

like, there are a number of

21:31

times, and then I'm below

21:33

50, and then da, da,

21:35

and then we're at 40.

21:37

Yeah, no, everyone's so low

21:40

in humanity the whole time.

21:42

It is basically one giant.

21:44

challenge, right? We don't have

21:46

a lot of, I think

21:49

we maybe rolled for initiative

21:51

like three or four times,

21:53

but most of it was

21:56

trading, like hindering versus proactive

21:58

versus hindering, right? And there

22:00

wasn't so as much, I guess

22:02

the way I think about it

22:04

is, as I was listening to

22:06

it, it kind of felt like

22:08

we were always going to make

22:10

it. It was just what stage

22:12

would we be in when we

22:14

got down there? Yeah, to an

22:16

extent, that's true. I think it.

22:18

feels like a challenge rather than

22:20

like a more granular blow-by-blow fight

22:22

because so much of what happened

22:25

in this arc Mitch and Kay

22:27

were super important for but there

22:29

were dozens if not hundreds of

22:31

other people totally doing stuff like

22:33

it was all like a very

22:36

broad cinematic scale until a couple

22:38

of like individual encounters which often

22:40

played out more as like a

22:43

narrative conversation than as a death

22:45

match For example, Mitch, using

22:47

the power of friendship to overcome

22:50

the arbiter of despair near the

22:52

end. Right! Just one of the

22:54

most cliched things I've done in

22:56

the Orpheus protocol and I make

22:58

no apologies. Like it was so

23:00

fucking good. It was good. Yeah,

23:02

and you get like, that scene

23:05

wrenched some real emotion out of

23:07

me, even listening to it kind

23:09

of rapidly to get caught up

23:11

for the recap, I could tell...

23:13

you know, that I, at least

23:15

my performance, was like, pretty genuine.

23:17

I think power of friendship isn't

23:20

the problem. Power of friendship, when

23:22

you haven't built up the value

23:24

of that friendship and the kind

23:26

of darkness that it's balanced against

23:28

in the world, like that's probably

23:31

more of the issue, because I

23:33

think it does in fact work

23:35

here. I think so. And having

23:37

sort of false... using you to

23:39

hurt you Walter and also complicated

23:42

relationship with Walter on like opposite

23:44

sides of that vision I think

23:46

is part of why it works

23:48

totally I feel like and

23:50

I could have gone back and

23:52

checked that the two most common

23:54

roles that we made were athletic

23:56

checks and presence checks that's what

23:58

it felt like like and

24:01

horror and Like

24:03

like get places inspire people

24:05

deal with how fucked up it

24:07

is. Yeah, those probably are

24:09

the three top of it right

24:11

the act like the fact

24:13

that we were acclimated to so

24:16

much was really interesting and

24:18

I remember Failing to kill the

24:20

art like the pestilence Arbiter.

24:22

I do remember that I remember

24:24

being like bummed out that

24:27

I couldn't do But I again,

24:29

I had like forgotten Like the

24:31

the spore zombies. I had forgotten

24:33

all of that and I don't know

24:35

if I just blocked it out

24:37

But that was really fucked up like

24:40

I like oh, yeah, no, it

24:42

got it was you were

24:44

in a bad place down there

24:46

It was like very like

24:48

proto Holocaust like it was Really

24:50

fucked up and I like

24:52

the like I just yeah, there

24:54

was a lot going

24:56

on there It was really yeah,

24:58

I don't know. It was cool.

25:00

It was I really enjoyed like

25:02

re -listening found it like a lot

25:05

of fun and Do you remember

25:07

though? I guess the question is

25:09

I don't remember this Do you

25:11

remember making the decision Rob? Eight

25:13

was a long arc going mm

25:15

-hmm I can't take my foot

25:17

off of of this like do

25:20

you remember making that decision to

25:22

be like I have to just

25:24

like it doesn't work Right, it

25:26

could have certainly been an arc

25:28

where we took a breath. We

25:30

healed yeah I think what

25:33

happened primarily is just that like

25:35

the temperature on the conflict

25:37

in the nightmare city rose so

25:39

high Through episode 2 the

25:41

the battle on the terrace that

25:43

I was like now This

25:46

is just this is gonna be

25:48

at a fever pitch like

25:50

whatever happens is going to happen

25:52

very rapidly now mm -hmm, it

25:54

would just not be quite as

25:57

good to like flip back to

25:59

the past And do an arc

26:01

with different characters like there was

26:03

this sense of momentum with commoners

26:05

joining the fight and The sort

26:07

of methods of control that this

26:09

fascist society was using Starting to

26:11

lose their grip and crumble a

26:13

bit and I didn't want to

26:16

stop that momentum once there is

26:18

that overall feeling of momentum where

26:20

like this is going to come

26:22

to a head and These forces

26:24

are going to boil over and

26:26

at the end of this there

26:28

will be a different society here

26:30

Now maybe it's the same people

26:32

in charge But like Unstoppably there

26:35

will be a great change at

26:37

that point. It would just have

26:39

felt basically like shit to To

26:41

change the channel one of the

26:43

spots that I got really interested

26:45

in listening was kind of a

26:47

big turning point So right after

26:49

we had killed the inquisitor right

26:51

after Kay had shot the inquisitor

26:53

in the eyeball We then did

26:56

then Vajra sort of gifted us

26:58

the death of the Stone mage and

27:00

at that point Kay goes back

27:02

to prepare to re -up her metasist

27:04

abilities to get sort of the long

27:06

-running plans in motion and Mitch goes

27:08

out and Fights alongside the populace,

27:10

but in those scenes like Kay is

27:12

pushing Mitch to come back with

27:14

him Kay wants Mitch to come back

27:16

like he sort of he doesn't

27:19

want to risk Mitch just dying out

27:21

there Yeah, and I wonder I

27:23

just wondered I know that we don't

27:25

have the answers But it was

27:27

a thing that I wondered about was

27:29

like, okay What if I had

27:31

just gone back and spent

27:33

and had Mitch spend three

27:35

hours climbing the walls? We

27:37

didn't get back out there

27:39

like because a lot of

27:41

what Kay does once they're

27:43

separated is start the the

27:45

big nightmare cannibal frenzy war

27:47

crime the infiltration of the

27:49

Fear factories and the killing

27:51

of the Queen Birthing chamber

27:54

like a lot of the

27:56

stuff that Kay does without

27:58

Mitch is like really really

28:00

dark and I wondered just like

28:02

would you have brought Mitch on those

28:04

things would you have sort of

28:06

sent Mitch out to be a figurehead

28:08

somewhere else like I wondered what

28:10

K might have done differently if Mitch

28:12

would actually not just led a

28:14

huge uprising in the upper city. I

28:16

think it's interesting that like here

28:18

we are heading towards like the climax

28:20

of the story of it and

28:22

we split a party of two

28:24

like that was like a weird

28:26

choice to and you were just

28:28

like no I gotta go start

28:30

keep some shit going and I

28:32

don't yeah the life of me

28:35

remember why that decision was made

28:37

well I think it's because Mitch

28:39

was being partially possessed by the

28:41

spirit of the bat that needed

28:43

to continue to take action right

28:45

and I think despite the risk

28:47

involved with Mitch I think Kay

28:49

decided like maybe it's better for

28:51

Mitch to not see some of the

28:53

things we have to do to

28:56

make this actually successful yeah I

28:58

think it made narrative sense and

29:00

I think from a mechanical sense

29:02

I was tapped and I needed

29:04

to redo my things although I

29:06

had the overload which lets me

29:09

rewind a whole scene astrology where

29:11

you get to like rewind like

29:13

five minutes and I never used

29:15

it once in the whole game

29:17

and I like that's an intimidating

29:19

ability to pull out to be like

29:21

everybody let's let's try this again especially

29:24

with how collaborative things had been I

29:26

think in a situation where you feel

29:28

like okay we just got screwed we

29:30

didn't know we were going into let's

29:32

try that one over again it would

29:34

have made good sense but given that

29:36

especially from the split up on all

29:38

of what Kay is doing is stuff

29:40

that Kay has been planning to do

29:42

for a long time and there's not

29:44

a ton of stuff that the like

29:47

rewind would have helped with now basically

29:49

the plan to get the nightmares to

29:51

eat each other went off just fine

29:53

and the plan to infiltrate the

29:55

yeah I mean like people people died

29:57

doing that plan but like rewinding

29:59

wouldn't really changed that. That was not

30:01

a plan that was going to

30:04

be no losses. Yeah, slightly different

30:06

people probably would have died if

30:08

you had done it again. But

30:10

there's no guarantee that even fewer

30:12

people would have died, yeah. Although

30:14

that's an interesting point. Have you

30:16

ever, and I guess you both

30:18

run games a ton at this

30:20

point, have you ever seen someone

30:22

use that overload and then well

30:25

or at all? I

30:27

haven't really had very many Hermeticist players,

30:29

is the thing. Neither have I.

30:31

I think we've had Hermeticists like as

30:33

part of their thing. A lot

30:35

of people dip into Hermeticists for like

30:37

panacea. Sure. But like, I have

30:39

not seen a ton of like primary

30:41

Hermeticists really going into astrology. You

30:43

know, listeners if you're doing your home

30:45

games, sound off on the discord

30:47

I guess. Yeah, it just sounds like

30:50

such a, like, and I guess

30:52

this is like from a step back,

30:54

like looking at the mechanics. Like

30:56

let's say you all have played a

30:58

scene out and someone's like fuck it,

31:00

I'm gonna use this power. As

31:02

a game master, would you be like,

31:04

wait, I gotta get my head

31:06

back on. You know what I mean?

31:08

Like would that strike you as

31:10

odd? Like this, I guess outside of

31:12

this narrative. It'd have to be

31:14

a, it'd have to be a conversation.

31:16

Like if somebody, I would want

31:18

somebody to be able to use the

31:20

power that they want to use.

31:22

Sure. If it's been an extremely complicated

31:24

scene, I think the higher the

31:26

emotional input that's going into the scene, the more I

31:28

would be hesitant to be like, yeah, we're just

31:30

going to do that one over again. But

31:33

I think it kind of depends somewhat on

31:35

like, especially for somebody who's really deep in

31:38

Hermeticists, like what is the hubris factor of

31:40

doing this? Like I would love it if

31:42

a player was like, okay, so I call

31:44

my girlfriend and I explain to her what's

31:46

going on and it goes badly and they're like,

31:48

all right, let's try that one again. I'd be like, yeah, you

31:50

get to do that one. We're going to do this scene again. I

31:55

think for me, it's

31:57

definitely a storytelling decision.

32:00

Like, how much proceeds the same way it

32:02

did? What's the part that the player is

32:04

the most, like, invested in changing? What can

32:06

that foreknowledge do? that makes the way it

32:08

proceeds interesting. It's basically, especially in an actual

32:10

play, like much more so in an actual

32:12

play than in a home game, but still

32:15

in a home game too. The focus would

32:17

be on avoiding laboriously going through something that

32:19

is the same, because that's boring. Right. So

32:21

like focusing on what can be different and

32:23

why it's different is probably where the good

32:25

juice is there. Right. Yeah, I guess, like

32:27

I say, I want the player to be

32:30

able to use it. They took the ability

32:32

there, they kind of... have a right to

32:34

use it, but it'd be, we'd want to

32:36

talk about intent, we'd want to talk about

32:38

like what specifically you're trying to accomplish by

32:40

turning back time in this situation. And if

32:42

the answer was just like, well I just

32:45

want all my roles to be better, and

32:47

maybe I'd be like, I think there's other

32:49

mechanisms for having made that happen. Like if

32:51

you want to make different decisions and approach

32:53

things differently, I think that's what we would

32:55

do, but like... I wouldn't want to just

32:58

run a scene back and see if the

33:00

roles were better the second time around. And

33:02

if even we did, I guess, if that

33:04

was what they insisted on, and I was

33:06

like, okay, we'll do that. We wouldn't even

33:08

do the full narration. We would just do

33:10

a bunch of re-rolls and to see if

33:13

that changed. Yeah, let's, yeah, like figure out

33:15

a couple of checks that would determine if

33:17

it really changes course, like significantly, like, like,

33:19

significantly, fully re-rollplay everything, you could kind of

33:21

pick and choose, sort of go back through

33:23

the time stream and pluck out the parts

33:25

that would be interesting to try again, rather

33:28

than being like, no, we actually have to

33:30

redo everything. One person's like, what if I

33:32

turn to the right as opposed to the

33:34

left? What if, you know? What if I

33:36

didn't listen to that stupid caterpillar? Just gone

33:38

straight. It's true. Just gone

33:40

straight to the castle

33:43

the the movie proceeds

33:45

the way it does

33:47

for a reason I

33:49

just like that that's

33:51

a funny example to

33:53

me. Oh, yeah No,

33:56

I like to think

33:58

that that caterpillar knew

34:00

exactly what he was

34:02

doing He just saw

34:04

like the the little

34:06

sprout icon or like

34:08

the level one around

34:11

her name plate and

34:13

You got to like

34:15

go level up No,

34:17

not that way. I

34:19

mean I love that

34:21

fucking caterpillar like that

34:23

bath would have taken

34:26

you straight to the

34:28

castle Did you say hello,

34:30

No, I said hello,

34:34

but same. Anyway

34:37

fuzzy Muppet caterpillars aside, you know,

34:39

I love Yone as a

34:42

character I'd like I remember I

34:44

didn't remember her name, but

34:46

I remembered like her and I

34:48

thought she was cool Like

34:50

again, it's just it had this

34:53

whole thing is like what

34:55

if Lea Miz and Rob had

34:57

a baby And

35:01

it was really Well, and

35:03

I listening to it again I'm getting

35:05

to talk about it did kind of

35:08

make me want to do like we

35:10

did we didn't quite do at the

35:12

That's spoiler. Anyway, it does make me

35:14

want to know what's going on with

35:16

these characters Maybe you want to know

35:18

what they're up to How things are

35:20

going for them what adventures they've gone

35:22

on because like Yone did not and

35:24

K would be a fun Three -person

35:26

party. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, that would be

35:29

yeah like fighting the city for the

35:31

rat last of the control of like

35:33

and and you are very Good Pardo could be

35:35

there too like you know Four

35:37

players to go in all of

35:39

them are not quite, you know,

35:41

there's still things to be done

35:43

Yeah, no, it would have I

35:45

that would be cool, too, but

35:47

yeah, I love K. I appreciated

35:49

him a lot more With time

35:51

I think this I appreciated him

35:53

a lot more Listening in a

35:55

way that I was disconnected. I

35:57

could be more impressed with the

35:59

decision that ended up happening with

36:02

him, then I think say

36:04

what ended up happening with

36:07

Emmett, because Emmett was

36:09

such a trashy asshole

36:11

in storage. I was never impressed

36:13

with Emmett, but I was, I

36:15

was like, his story is over,

36:17

he's a dumb ass. And the

36:20

only thing that like really was

36:22

wonderful that came out of that

36:24

other than Kathleen is the fact

36:26

that Arley and I laughed and

36:28

so hard at the idea of

36:31

touching tips, right? Like that classic

36:33

blooper, right? But like, there is

36:35

stories of Yone, or when Pardo's

36:37

like, I'm not gonna go back,

36:39

I'm gonna hang out here. and

36:42

like carries the scarification which also

36:44

is a really cool like you

36:46

can see that fade right because

36:48

like parto carves in the silhouette

36:51

of a woman in front of

36:53

a sunrise and then you're like

36:55

and it's a sunrise in a

36:57

few days that niche and 733

37:00

set like that yes doing doing

37:02

the watchman transition yeah you could

37:04

see that like you could see

37:06

that dissolve you know what I

37:09

mean like that was very much

37:11

there. Yeah, we'll just star wipe

37:13

it. But it was really good. And

37:15

I love the fact that like the

37:17

word of the bat, the bat becomes

37:19

the symbol of things. Yes, the baseball

37:22

bat is like the symbol of the

37:24

rebellion was cool as hell. I'd actually

37:26

forgotten that. At me too. Oh and

37:28

of course something I another thing I'm

37:30

very satisfied with listening back because it's

37:32

been so long I forgot about this.

37:35

Yeah like I knew Basha and Pardo

37:37

were present at the final battle

37:39

at the castle gate but like I

37:41

had forgotten that they had secretly trained

37:43

a bunch of slaves in the hunting

37:46

techniques of Sycamore and like that was

37:48

the thing that like finally turned the

37:50

tide enough for Mitch to make it

37:52

into the castle. That was a fun

37:55

like full circle thing because that's multiple

37:57

arcs back. That is from the very

37:59

first... that Mitch set foot in the

38:01

future. The nightmares, this way

38:03

of hunting them, the people

38:05

of Sycamore, that becoming like a

38:08

critical moment was like a really

38:10

fun full circle thing for like

38:12

a set of arcs. Yeah, yeah.

38:14

I really liked that because it

38:16

had been sort of hanging over

38:19

Mitch for this whole arc that

38:21

like his friends were still captured,

38:23

his friends were still trapped, but

38:25

have them sort of reclaim their

38:27

agency remind us that they were

38:30

sort of the heroes of their

38:32

their homeland. Yeah, they haven't just

38:34

been lying around them waiting. They

38:36

have been acting. They are their

38:38

own people. Yeah, such and it's

38:40

you know, very like Battle of

38:42

Helm's Deep, right? Like the riders

38:44

of really like, oh, and here

38:46

they are out of the fucking

38:48

nowhere with their spears and they're

38:50

just killing everyone. Look down the

38:53

steps on the third day. Bam.

38:55

Yeah, it was awesome. Very, yeah.

38:57

You know, very. Big, big, it's

38:59

a big set piece, a big

39:01

reveal. You hear the music swell.

39:03

I think that's an awesome vibe.

39:05

But yeah, it was just a

39:07

fun arc. And you know, I

39:09

don't know listeners at home how

39:11

many of you go back and

39:13

listen to it, like listen to

39:15

the arcs as we're talking about

39:17

them, or if you just use

39:19

them for summary and stuff. But

39:21

like, if it's been a minute

39:23

since you've listened to City on

39:25

fire, I really do recommend. It

39:27

is such a fun arc. there's

39:29

not like real stakes and fucked

39:31

up stuff and all that and

39:33

there is like just one role

39:35

for hopelessness after another but it really

39:38

is cool it's a really good arc

39:40

well like it feels more like the

39:42

victorious end of a sports movie than

39:44

most arcs do like when you get

39:47

to the end yeah And I think

39:49

it's also it is the end of

39:51

in some ways act and and you

39:54

say it right it's the end of

39:56

act one of Mitch's journey in in

39:58

the land and it It feels

40:00

like the end of Act 1

40:03

of Mitch's journey. It is a

40:05

real change. Yeah, and little

40:07

did we know, future

40:09

spoilers, that what was

40:11

meant to be the

40:14

next small chunk of

40:16

Mitch's journey turned into

40:18

this sprawling enormous thing

40:20

that lasted the rest

40:22

of the future art. Right.

40:24

Right. Act 2 certainly becomes

40:27

its own monster. Right. other people like

40:29

being able to like rejoin us on

40:31

LLL which will also be interesting. Are

40:34

there any other major things we want

40:36

to talk about before like super spoilery

40:38

stuff? No. I've got some stuff for

40:40

the spoiler zone so I think I'm

40:43

ready to move on. The concrete factory

40:45

is singing the song of its people

40:47

recording is worthless anyway and then we

40:50

will go to the spoiler zone. With

40:57

the fiendish next-door

40:59

concrete factory once

41:01

again subsided into

41:03

slumber, we now

41:05

find ourselves in

41:08

an aural environment

41:10

conducive to recording

41:12

the spoiler zone. Welcome to the

41:14

spoiler zone. You live next to

41:16

a snorlax. Like it gets up

41:19

and it causes you problems then

41:21

it goes back to sleep. I

41:23

guess the snorlax is a bigger

41:26

problem when it's asleep than it's

41:28

awake. So you have a reverse

41:30

snorlax situation. Yeah, we've got a

41:32

real reverse snorlax situation. What's interesting

41:35

to me, now that we've listened

41:37

to a fair amount, is the

41:39

number of... Sorry, let me do

41:41

that without burping. It's gross.

41:44

What I found interesting...

41:46

Oh my god, now

41:48

I'm burping and pick

41:50

giving, like I can't

41:52

stop making like... Okay,

41:55

okay, I've got it.

41:57

Now what I found

41:59

interesting... is how you

42:01

were able to drop

42:03

in places that Mitch

42:05

was going to visit

42:07

in a way that.

42:09

did not suggest that

42:11

Mitch was going to visit them.

42:13

I mean, okay, yeah, like, especially

42:16

when we were talking about the

42:18

books that we had or that

42:20

Kay has, and I'm like, yeah,

42:23

he looks up stuff about the

42:25

American Revolution or Vietnam, and you're

42:27

like, oh, and the uprising of

42:29

the ghoul fleet and the human

42:32

rebellion in the Amaranth kingdom. And

42:34

like, yeah, and I had completely

42:36

forgotten that those specific names. had

42:39

come up this early in the

42:41

show. Right? Like Amaranth Kingdom, I

42:43

thought the first time I'd ever

42:45

heard that was when we were

42:47

going there, but no, it was

42:49

here back in season 3.A. Right? And

42:51

that was really cool to me.

42:54

I remember you saying things, but

42:56

I also remember being like, oh,

42:58

this is Rob just like riffing

43:00

or Rob knows, you know, some

43:03

timeline stuff, but it never in

43:05

a million years will I been

43:07

like, oh, this is something that

43:09

that Mitch is going to fight.

43:12

These are acts. actual, like hand

43:14

showing things. And that was cool.

43:16

And that was cool. Yeah, I

43:18

sort of knew the largest and

43:21

most important world powers between Mitch

43:23

and where you needed to go.

43:25

So I felt like it would

43:27

be prudent to like do that

43:30

little seating thing just as a

43:32

fun Easter egg. Yeah. So that

43:34

when we go back, we're like,

43:36

aha, look, it's been there all

43:38

along. The Ameren's kingdom was there.

43:41

all along. And then

43:43

the other thing you

43:45

also hint at the

43:48

much much larger arc

43:50

that Mitch is going

43:52

to take when Kay

43:55

asks Mitch to use

43:57

the bat to hear

44:00

Vajra and Vajra

44:02

looks at the

44:04

bat and says

44:06

healing is the

44:08

antithesis of this bat

44:10

right. Mitch is now

44:12

like becomes like the bearer

44:14

of death and there is

44:16

something inherent in the bat

44:19

itself right like the idea

44:21

of beating something into being

44:23

healed it's opposite or it's

44:25

like a positive and a

44:27

And what's what's a funny

44:29

point of interest is that

44:31

I legitimately at this point

44:33

don't remember whether that was

44:36

something that I was already

44:38

thinking of or if this

44:40

discussion of the bats inability

44:42

to heal was like the

44:44

seed or a seed of

44:46

where we went later I

44:48

don't remember I thought my arcane

44:50

logic made sense in that scene

44:53

of like I can smack

44:55

the magic out of stuff but

44:57

like this guy is all

44:59

magic I can't it seems like

45:01

he'll just be a couple

45:04

weird little scraps if I do

45:06

that yeah fingernail and a

45:08

Christmas morning memory yeah had Christmas

45:10

but but yeah like though that

45:12

was over days in the sorcerer yeah

45:14

anyway well maybe the nightmares were

45:16

just before Christmas but

45:22

yeah I thought that was

45:24

cool like again there are some

45:27

real seeds here for everything

45:29

that we're going to end up

45:31

seeing and it is one

45:33

of those things and as you've

45:35

said like go back and

45:37

like re if you're if you

45:39

record it re listen go

45:41

back and look at your notes

45:43

right that the thing that

45:45

makes this you can't have Easter

45:47

eggs unless you make them

45:50

pay off and the only

45:52

way that they pay off

45:54

is if you're paying attention

45:56

to the the important things that

45:58

you're putting down right? And that's

46:01

a really good thing. I, you

46:03

know, I think one of the

46:05

weaknesses that when I GM games

46:07

is I want to have figured

46:09

out all the Easter eggs ahead

46:12

so that and start dropping them

46:14

kind of like an off thing

46:16

here and off thing there. But

46:18

that may not make things organic,

46:20

right? Like yeah, because then you're

46:23

sort of almost, you're not fully

46:25

laying down track, but you kind

46:27

of are. Right, right, exactly. You're,

46:29

yeah. Now you create obligations for

46:31

yourself later, which can work. It's

46:34

just, you can sort of lay,

46:36

you can plant those seeds without

46:38

knowing what they're going to turn

46:40

into. Right. Yeah, and I think

46:42

that's an important lesson another thing

46:45

it is important to let those

46:47

Easter eggs Plant themselves. I guess

46:49

is the way to think about

46:51

it like you don't have to

46:53

have figured out every every clue

46:56

or hook and and been like

46:58

I've been thinking about this since

47:00

minute one Yeah, well, that's part

47:02

of the magic trick I was

47:04

actually thinking about sort of the

47:07

magic trick of GM and when

47:09

you talked about playing as K

47:11

and being so impressed with how

47:13

K works was like, when you

47:15

were in Kay's shoes, you couldn't

47:18

really see the magic happening because

47:20

you were doing the trick. You

47:22

knew what hand the ball was

47:24

in. But listening to it, with

47:26

only sort of a dim memory

47:29

of having done those things, you

47:31

get to see the trick without

47:33

seeing all the stuff behind it.

47:35

And with GMming, it's much the

47:37

same where like... There's so many

47:40

GMs I talk to who are

47:42

like, oh yeah. One of the

47:44

players came up with a much

47:46

funnier thing or much cooler thing

47:48

than what my plan was or

47:51

I didn't have a plan. The

47:53

players came up with something or

47:55

I came up with something on

47:57

the spot that was different from

47:59

what my notes said. But if

48:02

you just do that, that's what's

48:04

real. All the notes you took

48:06

all of the painstaking, Honestly, the

48:08

only thing that I really remembered

48:10

about K. I remember the fight

48:13

on the. on the thing. I

48:15

remember Mitch shooting the Stone Mage

48:17

in the head and I remember

48:19

the swantan bomb of case. The

48:21

unavoidable siren song of having machinations

48:24

of the timeless like I have

48:26

to just blow myself up it's

48:28

so cool. Right? Just like, oh

48:30

you know if if John's gonna

48:32

drive Pierce into like a gas

48:34

I might as well just jump

48:37

like 35 feet and also blow

48:39

myself up, right? I feel like

48:41

that was, I feel like that

48:43

might have been part of why

48:45

my occultist seemed kind of unfair.

48:48

It was one of many reasons.

48:50

I'm like, occultist seemed unfair in

48:52

the like PVP tournament, but that

48:54

like I used machinations for extra

48:56

lives instead of as like a

48:58

damage multiplier. So people would. not

49:01

be able to kill me as fast

49:03

as other characters. It is a good

49:05

damage multiplier. Like machinations is very good

49:07

at putting a grenade exactly where you

49:10

want it to be. But it also

49:12

can be used defensively. It can be

49:14

used to prolong your life. No, it's

49:16

true. Yeah, I mean, it was

49:18

designed as a, it was designed

49:20

as a defensive ability, like, but

49:23

it's none of my business what's

49:25

happened since then. You're just, you

49:27

will call to sit home, keep

49:29

on doing whatever it is you're

49:31

going to do. I know I

49:33

can't stop you. Keep blowing yourself

49:35

up. I mean, it's really like,

49:37

it's like that, uh... that Golden

49:40

Age superhero, the human bomb, whose

49:42

whole power is just

49:44

blowing himself up and

49:46

putting himself back together

49:49

to blow up again. Like,

49:51

it's just weird. Anyway,

49:53

but I had forgotten

49:55

about those themes were

49:57

already popping up that the

50:00

Places were already there. I

50:02

remembered us talking about how

50:04

Even though K had been

50:06

raised by the sorcerer He

50:08

had no idea who the

50:10

sorcerer was because the sorcerer

50:12

can change their Appearance, so

50:14

I thought that was cool.

50:16

I remember what's talking about

50:18

that in general I thought

50:20

it was cool that like

50:22

I also know that it

50:24

wasn't my decision To

50:27

have K'd have no idea

50:29

where the sorcerer was that was a

50:31

discussion that you like that wasn't mine

50:33

alone Yeah, that was a discussion that

50:35

all he had was like if if

50:37

Mitch makes it this far on his

50:39

journey This is the signpost that you

50:41

give him. Yeah. All right,

50:43

so the so my last

50:46

big question is how or

50:48

if are Ellie and seven

50:50

three three connected in any

50:52

way shape or form metaphorically,

50:54

you know what I mean

50:56

like it's It's the idea

50:58

of like there is no

51:00

grace for innocence in this

51:02

struggle I'm like this between

51:05

these mighty forces Okay, cuz

51:07

I know for a while

51:09

I was convinced that Ellie was

51:11

like seven three four Like

51:13

oh sure cuz we still don't

51:16

know where we know that we

51:18

still don't really know Where Ellie

51:20

is fraught like Ellie's bag, right?

51:22

We know that not really like

51:24

yeah Not yet not till the

51:26

end of season three. Do we

51:28

have answers on that? Right,

51:30

right? But there's still in some

51:32

ways no like Ellie semi -colon origins

51:34

where We're like What's his

51:36

face plays Ellie because they

51:39

might it would have been

51:41

funnier if I had remembered

51:43

Ryan Reynolds. No, the other

51:45

guy Wolverine

51:50

fucking huge. Yeah, yeah,

51:52

Hugh Jackman as Ellie. Yeah,

51:54

that is funnier if

51:56

I just fucking arguments over

51:58

juice boxes, right? If only

52:00

I'd gotten the fucking word out

52:02

the first time as opposed to,

52:04

you know, what's his name, whomp,

52:07

whomp, it's not funny. Whatever

52:09

been, like, this is a

52:11

podcast that I produce, it

52:13

is an ADHD safe space.

52:16

Yeah, it's true, because... Uh,

52:18

you're literally, you're the only

52:21

person I've ever met with

52:23

more ADHD than I have.

52:25

Yeah, take that, nerds. Yeah,

52:28

see, uh, you will always

52:30

have an honored spot here.

52:33

Oh, I get to be,

52:35

I am the king of

52:37

the ADHD hill. Want to

52:40

ride bikes? Blah! the ones

52:42

that Ben has had. But

52:44

I, uh, another thing that

52:47

Ben, you talking about playing

52:49

Kay brought up for me

52:51

was that I am very

52:54

excited to do the LLL

52:56

for, um, the penitent's tale,

52:58

because playing tome in that,

53:01

uh, in that arc was

53:03

such a different thing from

53:05

playing Mitch, like Kay is

53:08

put together, focus driven. Taylor

53:10

made to lead this revolution

53:13

and your other characters are

53:15

not typically as focused. Even

53:17

Strykalov, who is a smart

53:20

character, is a smart dude,

53:22

is a dumb smart dude. Yes, very

53:24

true. Yeah. So I just I like

53:26

the contrast of like. It's fun to

53:28

play a character other than your main

53:31

sort of archetype and get to do

53:33

it well. Like I think that's that's

53:35

just part of why I'm looking forward

53:37

to that is because kind of my

53:39

my playing tome and getting to be

53:41

a very different character than Mitch but

53:43

still get to do a good job

53:45

of it was just a really fun

53:48

experience and I'm glad that you got

53:50

to do something similar to that with

53:52

Kay of getting to play somebody who's

53:54

like just got it all together still

53:56

very human like Kay is hardly a

53:59

revolution leading robot, but he does

54:01

have all of his shit together. He

54:03

leads people effectively. He never says, he

54:05

leaves all the saying weird shit to

54:08

me in this, so I appreciated getting

54:10

to say a bunch of dumb crap

54:12

as Mitch, in situations where

54:14

still nobody understood what I

54:17

was getting at. but it

54:19

was a good time. And

54:21

yes, I chose the name

54:23

K because of Arthurian legend.

54:26

Usually, K is the first

54:28

night of the roundtable. That

54:30

is why I chose his

54:32

name. Perfect choice. Love him.

54:34

Although in authoritarian legends, he's

54:37

usually a dush bag, like

54:39

a drunk dush bag. Like

54:41

he's... He's often mouthy. He's

54:43

generally pretty mouthy and people

54:46

are pretty happy to give

54:48

him his comeuppance. Yeah, it's

54:50

true. We're going to get

54:52

Hakim and Waukim pretty soon.

54:55

No, we've already had Waukeim.

54:57

It's just, it's just, it's

54:59

just hakeem. Yeah. But but

55:02

he's already but Dan's already

55:04

played Waukeem in Oh, that's

55:06

true. No true. Yeah, I

55:09

forget Well, Hakeem made a much

55:11

bigger impression on on me and

55:13

And that arc man, I wish

55:15

we could have an impression on

55:17

Nick, I think. Well, Kim was

55:20

doing his best. We can appreciate

55:22

him from afar, but he... Sure.

55:24

He did not, he did not

55:26

leave much of an impression except

55:29

for an impression in one of

55:31

the balls. From a baseball bat.

55:33

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, do we have, do

55:35

we have any other major stuff to

55:37

go through? Well, this was a, this

55:40

was a fun ass arc, a really

55:42

cinematic sort of propulsive... And yeah, very

55:44

helms deep ass stuff happening at the

55:46

end. Big change of pace next time

55:49

we're going to be back for the

55:51

diaspora arc where we get a look

55:53

sort of inside the operations of Sol

55:56

Invictus back in the past. Oh, oh,

55:58

this reminds me. Present past. reminds me

56:00

of one last thing that I had

56:02

to think of because I said something

56:05

in this arc where we talked

56:07

about fighting nightmares like he is

56:09

like can you fight an inquisitor

56:11

and Mitch is like I don't

56:13

know man if there were if

56:15

there were a whole lot of

56:17

me maybe we could. Funny you

56:19

should mention that! Yeah. And the

56:21

other funny part is just like,

56:23

you're like, I think I just

56:26

killed nine. And like, K is

56:28

like, every time, like, you and

56:30

the first arc opened your mouth.

56:32

Could it really be true that

56:34

you killed all these snipers? I

56:36

actually think it was more like

56:38

nine and not, like, 12 or

56:40

whatever it was. Like, I've seen,

56:42

like, 15 of them die. And

56:44

I think I've had a hand

56:46

in nine. Yeah. This is good.

56:49

It's like the like staggering humble

56:51

brag without doing it on purpose.

56:53

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good good

56:55

times. Good. We will see a

56:57

very different side of Mitch Hook as

56:59

well as the debut of a true

57:02

and enduring fan favorite when we come

57:04

back next time for war liars

57:06

and liars in the diaspora arc.

57:08

Yeah. But yes, for war liars

57:10

and liars. Thank you all for

57:12

listening. I've been Rob. I continue

57:14

to be Ben. I've been Dan.

57:16

I've been Dan. And we will

57:19

see you next time.