0:09

Well, look who is back, series

0:11

2 of the Overshare. Now it's taken

0:13

us a while but this is the

0:16

reason why. We've got a brand new

0:18

home, we've upgraded. Thank you so much

0:20

as well to every single person who

0:22

listened to series 1. We really, really

0:24

appreciate all your feedback, your comments. It

0:26

was so lovely to hear from so

0:28

many of you. Thank you for those

0:30

guests who came on and overshared with

0:32

us. It's because of you we got

0:34

to make the podcast. And we've got

0:36

amazing stories coming up for series 2.

0:38

Similar to series 1 it's about you, real

0:41

people, real life stories and as ever

0:43

we're in a safe space to overshare.

0:45

And look who's back from series 1.

0:47

Abby blazes back. Abby, tell us a

0:49

bit about yourself. Remind everyone what you

0:51

do for a living. So I work

0:53

as a dating and life coach. And

0:55

also as a dating consultant. So I

0:57

predominantly work with people who are single

0:59

trying to get into long -term relationships.

1:01

Which will, I must say well

1:04

I know it will help so many

1:06

people because we've got loads of different

1:08

topics. Relationships do feature heavily in there.

1:10

This episode actually is all about red

1:12

flags because we've all experienced them haven't

1:14

we? Hopefully most of us have managed

1:16

to avoid them. Sometimes though we're

1:18

not that lucky and we do continue

1:20

dating, continue relationships. Despite the red flag

1:22

literally being slapped in our face. Abby

1:24

in your job as a dating and

1:26

life coach you must come across red

1:28

flags all the time. I do. And

1:30

it can be really hard for people

1:32

because sometimes we think oh is that

1:34

a red flag? Isn't it a red

1:36

flag? And it can be hard to

1:38

navigate. And sometimes we might give people

1:40

the benefit of the doubt one we

1:42

shouldn't. Or the flip side of that

1:44

is becoming really really anxious about spotting

1:46

the red flags and then therefore not

1:48

dating anybody at all. Yeah going the

1:51

complete way. Well

1:53

Abby is here to help us unpick the

1:55

stories and try and make as much sense

1:57

of them as possible. And just so we're

1:59

being honest - Well, in this episode, we've changed

2:01

some of our oversharers' names and details.

2:03

It's just to protect them because of things

2:05

that are involved with their stories. Let's

2:07

get to it. And then he said, this

2:10

is why I haven't got social media.

2:12

was like, you and I've got social media.

2:14

How do you think I've found out

2:16

who you are? And then he said, I

2:18

haven't. I haven't. I was like, you

2:20

haven't. And then I said, and I found

2:22

your wife and put a name and

2:24

he was like, oh, you can find evidence

2:26

of good guys exist and try not

2:29

to focus so much on all the negatives

2:31

because the negatives are actually easier to

2:33

find. If you can focus on that, it

2:35

will help you to move forward because

2:37

they do exist. And so basically, little by

2:39

little, this aggressive side came out. And

2:41

I know if I was in your situation

2:43

and Gorka's mum got in bed with

2:45

me, I'd be like, what is happening, Esther?

2:48

What's going on here? You're in the

2:50

wrong room. been completely freaked out. You would,

2:52

wouldn't you? Hi. Oh, Tina's background looks

2:54

like ours with the plants and the yellow

2:56

and you match that studio. I'm a

2:58

crazy plant lady. We're like that. As are

3:00

all faking here. Well, Tina, welcome to

3:02

the overshare. Now, we've read your story and

3:04

I fear that it might be a

3:07

common one that Abbey hears all the time

3:09

in her day to day job. Take

3:11

us back to the beginning. So, Tina, you

3:13

thought you'd finally met a decent fella.

3:15

Is that right? What happened? Yes. So during

3:17

sort of COVID times, I didn't date

3:19

for about three a half years. I just

3:21

couldn't be bothered. I didn't go near

3:23

men. And then the start of last year,

3:26

I thought I joined the gym. I

3:28

thought I need to get myself back out

3:30

there. I'm nearly 35. I need to

3:32

just fight the bullets and do this. Because

3:34

as we know in this day and

3:36

age dating, it's not the most fun anyway.

3:38

But I just thought, let's do this.

3:40

Let's get back out there. So I had

3:42

a few dates over the year that

3:45

just didn't really come to anything. And then

3:47

had a difficult year with some family

3:49

bereavements and an injury. And I got to

3:51

sort of the end of the year

3:53

and thought, oh, you know, I can't really

3:55

be bothered. But just got talking to

3:57

him before I decided to give up for

3:59

a bit. He said straight away that he

4:01

wasn't really after anything serious, and I said,

4:04

well, you know, I'm just going to go

4:06

with the flow now, because this has been going

4:08

on for a while, the dating scene, and I'm just

4:10

going to just see what's what. So we

4:12

went on a first date, hit it off

4:14

really, really well. And before we

4:16

knew it, sort of seeing each other a

4:18

couple of times a week, and sort

4:20

of just going really well. And actually, we'd

4:22

had a few conversations because of he'd

4:24

got children and had had a set to

4:27

me. So we actually ended up having serious

4:29

conversations that I didn't think considering he didn't

4:31

really want anything serious. We'd sort

4:33

of spoke about those little elephants in

4:35

the room really, as if this

4:37

carries on and this keeps going. There

4:40

is a few things to think about.

4:42

So yeah, everything was going really

4:44

well, so I thought. And how soon

4:46

into seeing him, did you begin

4:48

to think or wonder there may have been

4:50

a few few red flags? What was it that made you

4:52

start to wonder? So there was

4:54

a couple. If you look from early

4:56

on really red flags, but there were

4:59

things that had reasons behind them. So

5:01

he told me straight away he

5:03

didn't have social media, which some people

5:05

say big red flag, but I was actually like,

5:07

it's not a bad thing because some people are

5:09

on social media all the time. And actually, it's not

5:11

the end of the world. He doesn't have it. I'd

5:14

also never been to his house, but he'd

5:16

said his teenage son lived with him.

5:18

I live alone. It made sense for him

5:20

to come to my house. And what

5:22

about his friends? Did he introduce

5:24

you to his friends and stuff? No,

5:26

because again, it hadn't really cropped

5:28

up. We'd started dating in the November,

5:31

Christmas was coming, busy time

5:33

of year. We were both quite

5:35

busy and we just sort of thought,

5:37

let's just carry on getting to know

5:39

each other and we'll see if anything is

5:41

going to come of this seriously.

5:43

Or sort of see how the next

5:45

few months go. And I

5:47

guess, Abby, it's hard for someone. I'm trying to

5:49

think if I was in Tina's situation because

5:51

they are valid explanations. He's got a teenage son,

5:53

but you would at the same time maybe

5:55

think, why could his teenage son not go to

5:57

the mums for the weekend and you go round.

6:00

You know why what's the psychology behind us

6:02

ignoring those things and thinking oh, yeah, it's

6:04

fine It's a valid reason. Hmm. Is it

6:06

because we're caught up in the the early

6:08

romance stage It could be but based on

6:10

what she's just said I do think

6:12

it was a very the very beginning part

6:14

of a relationship where you might not go

6:16

to each other's house Like immediately so I

6:18

can see why she went along with it

6:20

It makes quite a lot of sense to

6:23

give someone the benefit of the doubt

6:25

Yeah, but what does happen when we do

6:27

fall in love like quite quickly and I'm

6:29

not saying that this is the case

6:31

here But what happens is our prefrontal

6:33

cortex doesn't work as well And that

6:35

helps us to make decisions and

6:37

to be rational and logical And then

6:39

other parts of our brains also

6:41

switch off the amygdala switches off not

6:43

off it it doesn't work as

6:45

well and That is responsible for fear

6:48

responses and seeing threats So that

6:50

could actually hinder you from seeing the

6:52

red flags So is that the

6:54

whole rose -tinted glasses on yeah, and

6:56

then you've got dopamine as well So

6:58

dopamine is our reward neurotransmitter. Yeah.

7:00

Yeah, and so are you've got all of

7:02

these amazing feelings going around your body They're

7:04

really positive and then all the stuff that

7:06

helps you to see the red flags is

7:09

dampened down Which means it's quite easy for

7:11

pretty much anybody no matter how smart they

7:13

are to fall for somebody who's not quite

7:15

right It's not as hard as you might

7:17

think it's not unfathomable and then Tina You

7:19

know, what's this about a tattoo? Did you

7:21

have a tattoo or something? Yeah So we

7:23

had it got a few tattoos and obviously

7:25

as you do we were talking about tattoos

7:27

one day And I said oh with who's

7:30

is that woman's name on you

7:32

and he said oh drunken lads

7:34

holiday Stupid bet that I lost

7:36

and I just thought well lads do

7:38

stupid things like that. I

7:40

did think okay, whatever But again

7:43

so early on in the dating phase who

7:45

am I to question what tattoos he's got

7:47

So at the time didn't think anything I

7:49

thought I thought it's probably an ex is

7:51

he's just not going to admit to that

7:53

But I'm not gonna I don't have an

7:55

issue with the fact. He's got somebody else's

7:57

name on him. It's his past So it

7:59

didn't be we have an issue with that at the

8:01

time. What had happened is we got to sort

8:03

of February time. And you know,

8:05

when everybody says that intuition, that gut

8:07

instinct kicks in. And it was

8:09

a Saturday night and I was sat at home

8:12

and I just thought something's telling me something's

8:14

off here and I don't know why. And I

8:16

thought, I'm gonna do some digging because although

8:18

he said he wasn't on social media,

8:20

everybody's out there somewhere in some form. Got

8:22

a glass of wine and as you

8:24

do, I'm searching. I thought Facebook, you know,

8:26

all the usual couldn't find anything. And

8:28

then I had this little thought, he

8:30

played a sport and I thought most

8:32

sports clubs have a social media page. So

8:35

I found the sports club had a Luke,

8:38

we're scrolling away. And then I saw, I

8:40

thought he's not in any of the lineups

8:42

or the fixtures. And then I got to

8:44

scrolling and I saw a picture of him and thought, oh

8:46

yeah, there he is, that's him. But

8:49

why aren't I seeing his name in any of

8:51

the lineups? This doesn't make sense. So then

8:53

I realized as I was scrolling that when it

8:55

was a player's birthday, they'd put like a

8:57

post of happy birthday. So I scrolled up to

8:59

the month he said his birthday was, saw

9:01

his picture, there he is, happy birthday with

9:03

a completely different name underneath. And

9:06

I just thought, oh no, it's

9:09

like everything just all of a sudden, a little

9:11

light bulb. And I was like, oh no, oh

9:13

no, it's not, that is him. But what has

9:16

he lied about? Is it his name, is

9:18

it? So then

9:20

somebody had actually tagged him in the comments.

9:22

So he told me he wasn't on social media,

9:24

but somebody had tagged him. So I clicked on this

9:26

name in the comments that was under his. And

9:29

it did, when I met him, he said, I've got

9:31

a really old Facebook, but I haven't used it for

9:33

about four years. And this took me to a Facebook

9:35

that looked like it hadn't been used for about four

9:37

years. So I thought, okay, that is an

9:39

old profile, but still that's a

9:41

different name. So I clicked on the

9:43

info and it said first met

9:46

and a woman's name. And instantly

9:48

the woman's name was the name of the

9:50

tattoo on him. And I just was

9:52

like, oh, connecting the dots. So I clicked

9:54

on her profile and her cover picture

9:56

was of him and her and it said

9:58

they were married. Oh, for good. For

10:00

any sake. Yeah.

10:03

say it's the most double life. His heart

10:05

was that weak. He'd actually said, we'd

10:07

had a conversation about how things were progressing.

10:09

And I'd actually said, do you

10:11

know what? You've restored my faith in

10:13

men. I'd actually said that that

10:15

week to him. I was like, you've

10:17

restored my faith that there's some

10:19

good men out there. And then this

10:21

just unraveled. And I was like, oh

10:23

no, I've been totally, totally had. But surely

10:25

Abbey, people who do this with the

10:27

double life thing, they can't seriously see it

10:29

as a long -term plan, can they? mean,

10:32

how long can you keep that up

10:34

for? It's just not, it

10:36

must be mentally exhausting. Yeah,

10:39

I mean, he said at the start, didn't

10:41

he? I'm not looking for anything serious. So

10:43

who knows if he intended to just keep

10:45

things very casual and then got carried

10:47

away within the moment of like becoming

10:49

attached. Who knows? And how did you

10:51

reveal to him, Tina, that you knew?

10:53

Did you let the wife know? What

10:55

happened next? So the

10:58

next day, I was texting and I was due to

11:00

see him in about two or three days. And

11:02

I thought, I'm gonna do this to his face so

11:04

that he's got no get -outs because we'd actually, so

11:06

we'd arranged to go out. And

11:08

I started doing things like, shall we go

11:10

to this place which I knew was near

11:12

where he lived? I thought, if he's got

11:14

something to hide, surely he's not going to

11:16

want to go to where he lives. So

11:18

was like, shall we go here? And he

11:20

was like, yeah, absolutely. And I was like,

11:22

oh, okay. Maybe he

11:24

might cancel on the day. So I was gonna do

11:27

it to his face in a public place. So we

11:29

were gonna go out for tea, do it publicly. So

11:31

if he kicked off, I was, you know, I wasn't

11:33

at home with him. But on

11:35

the Sunday he was texting me and I

11:37

just thought, I can't do this. All

11:39

of a sudden I thought, who is this

11:41

person? He's been sat next to me

11:43

and answering to a fake name. Like I

11:45

got really freaked out. All of a sudden thought, I

11:47

can't do this. So he was texting me and

11:49

he said, oh, what's the matter? You seem to have

11:51

like your mood's changed. And I just said, I

11:53

don't like your dishonesty and then put his real name

11:56

dot, dot, dot. And he was like,

11:58

oh, you know, then. And I was like. like, yes.

12:02

And then he started saying, Oh, I lied about

12:04

my name because I've been stalked in the

12:06

past by somebody was dated. And then he said,

12:08

this is why I haven't got social media.

12:10

was like, you have got social media. How do

12:12

you think I found out who you are? And

12:15

then he said, I haven't, I haven't. I was like, you haven't.

12:17

And then I said, and I found your wife and put

12:19

a name and he was like, Oh, I

12:22

said, I suggest you start talking. And then two days later,

12:24

he texted me saying, I know you don't want to hear

12:26

off me, but I wondered if one day you'd like to

12:28

be friends. And I was like, No, no,

12:30

no. You said friends with who this your fake

12:32

name or your real name? Who am I talking

12:34

to now? Which which friend of my have you?

12:36

So I said, No, I don't I don't want

12:38

to hear off you. I said, if you come

12:40

to my house, I'll bring the police. So to

12:42

be honest, it's completely broken my trust in me.

12:45

Oh, it wasn't great before this. But now I'm

12:47

like, Oh, how does Tina get over that? Then

12:49

I'll be because obviously not all men like that.

12:51

And I Tina, I've been in situations like that

12:53

as well, where I've been completely gaslighted. I've been

12:55

so madly in love with someone. And it turns

12:57

out they were with someone else the whole time

12:59

as well. And it broke me.

13:01

But I'm now obviously happily engaged with

13:03

children. I you can't tell them all

13:05

with the same brush, but it is

13:07

hard when you've been so emotionally and

13:09

mentally damaged. How does Tina overcome that?

13:12

I think you need to really look

13:14

for evidence that good men exist. You

13:16

know, look around you. This is a problem

13:18

a lot of people have actually, if

13:20

they're surrounded by problematic relationships, it's hard to

13:23

imagine or even understand what healthy relationship

13:25

looks like, which is why sometimes people jump

13:27

from unhealthy relationship to unhealthy relationship, because

13:29

they actually haven't learned what a healthy relationship

13:31

even is. If you can find evidence

13:33

of good guys exist, and try not to

13:35

focus so much on all the negatives,

13:37

because the negatives are actually easier to find.

13:39

If you can focus on that, it

13:41

will help you to move forward, because

13:43

they do exist. Yeah, but it would

13:45

be completely understandable for you to

13:47

think otherwise based on your experiences,

13:50

like it would be strange if you were

13:52

like, Oh, no, everything's fine. Like that

13:54

would be more unusual. It's the whole changing

13:56

of the person, changing the personality and

13:58

pretending to be somebody else. That, for

14:00

me, is where, like you, Tina, there'd

14:02

be no going back, and you cutting yourself

14:04

off, leaving him to it, like you

14:06

say, prioritising yourself, which I always think you

14:08

should do. Because

14:10

you know, you've got to take care of yourself.

14:13

Yeah. Well, Tina, thank you for coming on.

14:15

Thank you for sharing your story, and I'm glad

14:17

I got out of it. I'm glad you saw

14:19

the red flags. Remove yourself from the situation, which

14:21

you should be so proud of, because like you

14:23

say, not everyone does. And

14:25

yeah, moving forward, like Abby said,

14:27

they're not all the same. Thankfully. Thankfully,

14:29

there are some good ones, and

14:32

you'll be fine, Tina. Thank you so

14:34

much. Enjoy the rest of your

14:36

day. very much for having me. Thank

14:48

you so much to Tina for joining

14:50

us. Abby, is it a common thing?

14:52

I mean, I've never heard that that thing

14:54

happening before the, you know, pretending to

14:56

be someone else. But is that common? I

14:59

don't know about pretending to be someone

15:01

else, but it's estimated that 20 to 35

15:03

% of people who were doing online dating

15:05

are already in a relationship. Oh, my

15:07

God. So that's like, that's nearly over a

15:09

quarter, isn't it? That's, yeah, it's obviously

15:11

a third. It could be as many as

15:13

a third, which is one in three.

15:15

One in three people. We don't want to

15:17

freak people out and say, don't know who you're

15:19

online dating, but be aware of that.

15:21

You know, are they leading someone else along? What

15:23

is the situation? For me, the online dating thing

15:25

is how they think they'll get away with it,

15:27

because like Tina said, you can be savvy. We've

15:30

all got a bag of the Christie in us.

15:32

Do you know I mean? I always say, just

15:34

give me a phone, give me a social media

15:36

page and I will find anyone and anything that

15:38

I need to, you know, you just get to

15:40

the bottom of it. Sue,

15:50

welcome to the Overshare. I think

15:52

your story is going to be

15:54

the one that people will tell

15:56

other people about. Everyone is going

15:59

to be gobsmacked. with your story. Take

16:01

us back Alice, let's go back to your

16:03

to your ex and that morning tell

16:05

us what happened. We bumped into each other

16:07

and had like a really good catch -up

16:09

and decided to go back to his.

16:11

I had a lot of pain all that

16:13

night but I remember waking up looking

16:15

like Alice Cooper like

16:17

walking against him so I wasn't

16:19

very like in the best situation.

16:21

Then there was like a knock

16:24

on his bedroom door and then his

16:26

mom just like walked in I

16:28

was like oh god this is so

16:30

awkward and then she just came

16:32

and went oh are you going to

16:34

scoot along and I was like

16:36

what? And she asked him to scoot

16:38

along he got up out with

16:40

the bed and I was lying in

16:42

the bed luckily I had some

16:44

knickers on because I only had like

16:46

a dress thing on so I

16:48

was like trying to hide what modesty

16:50

I had left under the quilt

16:52

she just scooted into the middle of

16:54

work. So his his mother got

16:56

in bed with you the morning after

16:58

the night before the mum's sandwich.

17:00

Oh my goodness and what how did

17:02

what did he do? Did he

17:04

used to be like mom no or

17:06

was it like the norm for

17:08

him? He was like oh I like

17:10

I cannot remember Sue and she

17:12

was like you look dead different and

17:14

it was just you look different

17:16

with your breast out. Oh

17:19

my god what's going on and she

17:21

was just sat there for a year just

17:23

talking on like oh I just want

17:25

some breakfast and I was like no I

17:27

want to try and find me shoes

17:29

and me other items of clothing that's probably

17:31

dotted around the floor and get out.

17:33

And how you must have mentioned to him

17:35

how strange that was? Yeah and he

17:37

was like oh that's just me mom you

17:39

know watchers like. Well that was just

17:41

the beginning wasn't it did this because you

17:43

spent some time with this fella obviously

17:45

and what what what else happened? I kept

17:47

going over to his to see him

17:49

and things and then she just like started

17:51

asking if I was on like any

17:53

form of contraception what what form of contraception

17:55

I was using and things and I

17:57

was like what? Oh my god I don't

17:59

need to have you in pair. asking

18:01

is this and she was like

18:03

just really possessive and I

18:05

would end up getting pregnant to

18:07

him and she just totally

18:10

like lost it and she insisted

18:12

that when I went to work

18:14

she went through he's been and

18:16

found me pregnancy test and she texted

18:18

and she was like oh I need to

18:20

tell him before you do and I was

18:22

like why because I know how to deal

18:24

with this and how your react is not

18:26

going to be happy and I was like well

18:29

it's not her I used to tell yeah I

18:31

was like I need to like have this discussion

18:33

with him because it's like a bit of a

18:35

shock I only found out yesterday and I got

18:37

a text off him she'd actually told him I

18:39

was at work I wasn't pregnant that's

18:42

taking like control to the

18:45

next level I mean I'll

18:47

be this this goes beyond

18:49

the whole mums and sons

18:51

thing doesn't it surely yeah

18:53

I mean it sounds like

18:55

she's extremely attached to her

18:57

son and maybe struggling to like let

18:59

go of like the control in that relationship

19:01

so she it sounds like she was

19:03

trying to control everything the narrative maybe to

19:05

protect his feelings I don't know but

19:07

yeah it's that is quite extreme was

19:10

his was his dad around did she

19:12

have a husband no

19:14

no I think they had

19:16

like a very volatile relationship

19:18

but even like when he

19:20

was going to work it would be kind of

19:22

what are you feeding him what are you

19:24

going to make him for his his dinner or

19:27

his babe because he's used to this certain expectation

19:29

I was like he eats kebabs at

19:31

the weekend on a keb on a

19:33

burger barn I was like you really

19:35

worry about what he's putting into his

19:37

body I was like what you're on

19:39

about but it was just every aspect

19:42

was just so controlled and everything and

19:44

every aspect of his life and things

19:46

and inevitably he came with a choice

19:48

where he was made to choose

19:50

between his son and me

19:52

and her and he's never seen

19:54

his son for 15 years

19:57

wow so it even got down

19:59

to that the time ties with his mum,

20:01

that fat side of the family, have

20:03

destroyed his own family.

20:06

Because it's been that severe. Maybe, would

20:08

it be a case of, I mean, we

20:10

were talking to me and Abby before

20:12

we did this, I've got a son and

20:14

a daughter. And I do view them

20:16

differently as in, you know, I'm

20:19

a bit more protective of my son,

20:21

because I know my little girl's going

20:23

to be fine. She's, she's clued up,

20:25

she's sassy. Tiago's a little bit, he's

20:27

a bit more soft like his dad.

20:29

But I would never interfere. I always

20:31

think my role as a parent, let

20:33

them go out and make the mistakes,

20:35

but always be there for if and

20:37

when they come back. But the control

20:39

over it, he's never going to meet

20:41

anyone long term, because who, like Sue,

20:43

I did on the same thing, you're

20:45

not going to put up with that.

20:47

No. And actually, it's been found that there's

20:49

a research in America by a lady

20:51

called Dr. Terri Orr book, and she found

20:53

that if you're close to your mother -in

20:55

-law and you're a woman, you

20:57

have 20 % less marital satisfaction. So

21:00

if you're too close, it's not a good thing. And

21:03

so really, in this spot, he

21:05

would have been the one really

21:07

to set the boundary and didn't, but

21:09

it sounds like he didn't want to. So you're

21:11

on very different pages about how the relationship

21:13

should work. So it probably would never work. And

21:15

I can't see it working with most of

21:18

the people. No. Every aspect

21:20

of his life, it's always been quite controlling.

21:22

Even when I used to say things to

21:24

him like, why is your

21:26

mom like being so OTT? I was

21:28

like, it's just not normal. And

21:30

he was like, well, it is normal. It's just

21:32

because you're not close to your parents. I was

21:34

like, I'm close to them. But at the

21:36

same time, I'm like

21:38

independent. And it used

21:41

to just cause so much friction. And every

21:43

time I used to say, like, try

21:45

and say something, it used to go totally

21:47

off on one. Even when I was

21:49

in labor, giving birth to me, some she

21:51

turned up at the delivery room, asking

21:53

to get in because she wanted to say

21:55

in bonus that you didn't even want

21:57

him here. And now you want to be

21:59

in rule and she got really paid off and I

22:01

wouldn't let her in the rule. But

22:04

again that's your time, your choice, your

22:06

body. When it comes to labour it's

22:08

all about what the mum would want.

22:10

No it's not about anybody else, it's

22:12

about you and your child and the

22:14

fact that he didn't stand up for

22:16

you in that situation, major,

22:19

major red flag. It's what he

22:21

knows. Yeah so we sometimes think

22:23

what we know is correct. Yeah

22:25

even if it's not so healthy

22:27

but also he's missing dad from

22:29

his environment as well. They've probably

22:31

only had each other, obviously guessing

22:33

but they've only had each other. There's

22:37

going to be a tighter bond isn't there, if that's

22:39

all you've had or you could rely on. So

22:41

you can see why it could happen

22:43

and I think a parent's job really is

22:45

to equip their child

22:47

to be without them. Yeah

22:49

and how is this going

22:51

to pan out as you said. And it's

22:53

the hardest thing because you're teaching them

22:55

to, you want them to be independent but

22:58

still always need you. So it's kind

23:00

of you're teaching them, I mean how's your

23:02

relationship with your son? I mean obviously

23:04

you don't do the same thing. I'm trying

23:06

to teach him to be as independent

23:08

as he can be. It's kind of just

23:10

what I would call a normal relationship

23:12

with me son where I'm there if he

23:15

needs us but at the same time

23:17

he's old enough to make his own

23:19

decisions and he's got to learn by his

23:21

mistakes and hopefully learn and grow from them

23:23

but you've got to allow your child to live

23:26

and have them experiences or eyes.

23:28

You end up with these kind

23:30

of problems. What have your friends

23:32

said about it? They were just bewildered

23:34

by it, they couldn't believe it

23:37

even when we used to come to

23:39

the house and things so it

23:41

would be, she would sit with

23:43

these friends and it was like

23:45

she was one of the guys on

23:47

Mean Girls where she goes on

23:49

the cool mom. That's what she wanted to

23:51

see but it was like she wanted be

23:53

one of the guys. It's almost

23:55

like wanting to blur the lines of

23:57

guardianship but also friendship. And

24:00

I know if I was in your situation

24:02

and Gorka's mum got in bed with me,

24:04

I hadn't been like, what is happening Esther?

24:06

What's going on here? You're in the wrong

24:08

room. be completely freaked out. You would, wouldn't

24:10

you? I'm just

24:12

pleased to have Nick as I'm going to

24:14

walk up. But it's like even if, you

24:16

know, back in my 20s, I've done the,

24:18

people say the walk of shame, I call

24:20

it a stride of pride, across someone's landing,

24:23

praying that their mum and dad doesn't come

24:25

out of a bedroom. Yeah, you don't want

24:27

to interact with them on any level. No

24:29

interaction. Don't make eye contact. You don't want

24:31

to know what I've just done to your

24:33

son the night before. Don't look at me.

24:35

Never mind getting him in bed with you.

24:37

Do you know what I mean? It's horrendous.

24:39

Well, thank you so much for sharing with

24:41

us. And yeah, like I said, I think

24:44

this will be the chat that everyone tells

24:46

their friends about because we've all got that

24:48

mother -in -law, but yours have obviously your potential

24:50

one took it to the next level. We'll

24:52

be saying, oh, it could be worse. It

24:54

could be getting into bed with you. Think

24:56

of that. Yeah, think of Sue. I wouldn't

24:58

have to know if anyone else has had something

25:00

like that because I surely cannot be the

25:03

only person ever to have had that experience.

25:05

I refuse to believe that was to me.

25:21

Right, so this is Alex, our

25:23

next guest on The Overshare. Now, Alex,

25:25

you ignored many red flags over the

25:27

years, but you're still in touch with

25:29

the Overshare, believe, because you you share

25:31

custody. So tell us, tell us a

25:33

bit about your story. What happened first?

25:35

Well, he wasn't really my type. He

25:37

was a bit, um, he

25:40

looked older than me. He

25:42

was like balding, a bit hubby in the

25:44

in the tummy. And,

25:47

um, it

25:49

turns out that he'd lied to me

25:51

about how old he was and tells it

25:53

is actually younger than me. Oh, what

25:55

other red flags were there apart from his

25:57

little little white lies? What else was there?

26:00

So he was really full

26:02

-on in the beginning. He was

26:04

really eager, like real keynote. He

26:06

was also a bit insecure. He had

26:08

a really close relationship to his

26:10

mum, which I mean, those ones are

26:12

always got to watch out for.

26:14

He would hide a lot of his

26:17

emotions in the beginning. Like one day

26:19

he dropped something and he

26:21

was like trying to control his emotions. Like,

26:23

oh, that's strange. Like you can square in

26:25

front of me. It's okay, I'm hard to

26:27

pull. And then he was like, oh,

26:29

I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. I'm like,

26:31

what's happening? So that opened down

26:33

with how he tried to deal with

26:35

things. Yeah. And

26:37

so basically little by little,

26:39

this aggressive side came out. We

26:41

did move in together after

26:44

a year because we were really

26:46

happy with each other. You

26:48

know, in the early stages, you sort of,

26:51

you've got to take a bit of everything with

26:53

a pinch of salt. You've got to take the

26:55

good with the bad. I mean, he's going to

26:57

go bald eventually. What does it matter

26:59

if he's bald now? And so

27:01

all of these things, like I just don't really

27:03

care. Like I really liked who he was.

27:05

He was seemed like a really good guy.

27:07

He seemed like butter wouldn't melt. And

27:09

then we moved in together and all

27:11

these cracks started appearing.

27:14

Like he was really controlling.

27:16

He wanted me to do all the cleaning.

27:18

He wanted his house to be as clean as

27:20

his mum's house. And I'm just,

27:22

I'm stupid. I didn't pay attention

27:24

to it. I had

27:26

the big doubt. Is it me? It must be me.

27:28

I'm the one provoking him. He said this to

27:30

me. He's like, you don't pay attention to me unless

27:32

I shout at you. And did I shout and

27:34

say all these things? You don't listen. You don't do

27:36

anything. Like the house is a

27:38

mess until I get angry. You don't clean

27:40

it. And so I

27:42

did. I thought it was me. I went to the

27:44

doctor and to say I thought I had depression. Oh

27:47

no. Thinking that

27:49

it was my fault, that if I was depressed, I

27:51

would go, didn't feel like the cleaning. So

27:54

then maybe it was me. And all

27:56

these things happened and literally the week

27:58

before the wedding, we had this. huge

28:00

argument and I

28:02

thought I can't cancel it now and

28:04

I went through with it

28:06

I'm married in and then I

28:08

wanted the baby and eventually

28:11

we got the baby I

28:13

was like you know he'll be different with

28:15

the baby like everyone else thinks and

28:17

the warnings I didn't listen to them because

28:19

I thought my daughter needs a dad

28:21

she should be with her dad you know

28:23

what I've gotten from you say now

28:25

this Alex and I'll be obviously you'll probably

28:27

know a reason why I've picked up

28:29

Alex said at the start I took everything

28:31

with a pinch of salt you know

28:33

I ignored it all and then it's self

28:35

-blame is it me am I doing something

28:38

wrong then it's the feeling of

28:40

shame of I have to go through

28:42

with this because everyone else will

28:44

suffer if I don't yeah then it's

28:46

the shame and guilt of I

28:48

have to put my daughter first because

28:50

if I don't she will suffer

28:52

down the line everything and everyone has

28:54

come before you so it's

28:56

like everyone's at peace and you're

28:58

in pieces and is that

29:00

a common trait of I

29:02

don't want to just say women

29:04

but someone in the situation

29:06

of a relationship that is abusive

29:09

everything is you self -blame yeah

29:11

because what tends to happen is the

29:13

person that you're in the toxic

29:15

relationship with gets you into that position

29:17

so they put they put you

29:19

down they make you feel less so

29:21

you might start off feeling okay about

29:23

yourself but over time and they've

29:25

built you up as well so at

29:27

the start they love bombing that

29:29

you mentioned you're being really lovely everything

29:31

going really really well you become

29:33

attached to them and then they start

29:36

to flip the script and trip

29:38

away yeah and that's where you have

29:40

to go oh it maybe it

29:42

is me like even now you're saying

29:44

I'm stupid you're not stupid did

29:46

you got it manipulated he manipulated that

29:48

whole situation yeah I was more scared

29:50

of leaving him and being

29:52

alone than hooting up

29:54

with that and that

29:56

I guess I mean that's the cycle that

29:58

so many people find themselves and is that

30:00

they think so little of their

30:02

expectation of what they deserve is

30:05

so low. What is that? Why

30:07

do we have that? It's

30:09

low self -worth, I think. Low self

30:11

-esteem. Think worrying about not being able

30:13

to find someone. If this is

30:15

the first relationship you've had for a

30:17

long time or you've struggled in

30:19

the past, it's hard for you to

30:21

imagine that it's possible. Another thing

30:23

that people do, which it sounds like

30:25

may have happened here a little

30:27

bit, is it's called the sunk cost

30:30

fallacy, where we buy into the

30:32

idea that because we've gone so far

30:34

into the relationship, we've invested so

30:36

much that it's better to just stick

30:38

around in the relationship when actually

30:40

it would be wiser to move away

30:42

from it but because we've invested

30:44

already, especially if you bring in like

30:46

children, pets, marriage, houses, all these

30:48

things, they tie us to that person

30:50

and make it harder for us

30:52

to feel that we can move the

30:54

way out. I thought, well anything's

30:56

better than being alone and it's really

30:58

not. You just thrive by yourself

31:00

and you can make things happen and

31:02

then I feel guilty without him.

31:04

I wouldn't have my beautiful daughter and

31:06

that's really hard. It's

31:10

the person who you despise the

31:12

most has given you the most

31:14

beautiful gift. She needs her mom

31:16

to be happy and to be

31:18

healthy and until you're out of

31:20

a situation, you can't be that

31:22

person. Yeah, that's why I did

31:24

do anything. Yeah, well because I

31:26

need to set an example to

31:28

her. So

31:33

let's end this episode of The

31:35

Overshare with a curveball. This is a

31:37

tale of why occasionally just maybe

31:39

the red flags are worth working through

31:41

because we've got Debbie on now

31:43

and Debbie met her husband just before

31:46

he was going to get married.

31:48

You met money stag dude, didn't you?

31:50

Tell us what happened. Yes,

31:53

I still feel ashamed when

31:55

I say that but so we

31:57

sort of girls going... holiday, we

31:59

did it two or three times

32:01

a year. All

32:03

young, free and single,

32:05

got to the hotel in

32:08

Magaluf and my best

32:10

friend at the time knew Chris. I'd

32:12

never met him, didn't really know anything

32:14

about him. And then when I'd done

32:16

my case in the hotel room came

32:18

down, she was speaking to him. So

32:21

I was like, oh, he's a bit all right.

32:23

She straight away was like, oh, he's on his

32:25

stag doing. I was like, oh, okay, cool. We

32:28

just sat and had some drinks together because they were

32:30

catching up. And yeah,

32:32

that's kind of where it all started

32:34

really. And so obviously

32:36

when you saw him in the reception, you

32:38

was an instant attraction from your end. Did

32:40

you feel like he was the same? Because

32:42

sometimes they give you that look, don't they

32:44

guys? But they look for a little bit

32:47

too long or there's a little bit of,

32:49

yeah, did that exchange happen? Yeah,

32:52

it's really strange to explain

32:54

sort of those feelings because on the Wednesday

32:57

before we flew out on holiday, on

32:59

the Wednesday I'd sworn off men. I'd been

33:01

seeing somebody on and off for six

33:03

years, got sick of being messed around and

33:05

I was like, I'm done and that's it.

33:07

And then met him on the Friday. And

33:10

the connection and attraction was instant.

33:13

And I did get that

33:15

from him as well. And yeah,

33:17

it's wrong, but

33:19

obviously you can't

33:21

help who you kind of connect

33:23

with and things like that.

33:25

But him and his friends went off and

33:27

did their thing. We did our thing. It was

33:29

just that we were staying in the same

33:31

hotel that I saw him again the second night

33:33

and we had some drinks again. All there's

33:35

a big group together laughing and joking and it

33:37

was just good fun. And that's literally all

33:40

I thought it was ever going to be really.

33:42

And then what happened when you guys

33:44

got home? At what point did you think,

33:46

well, I guess did he think while the person

33:48

I'm marrying isn't who I'm meant to be

33:50

with? So because we'd all had such

33:52

a good time, I was like, oh, when we

33:54

get back, we'll all have to go out, you

33:56

know, catch up because he lived sort of 10

33:58

minutes from where I... I did. We'd

34:01

got the same circle of friends. We'd

34:03

been to the same weddings. You know,

34:05

it's sort of same places. So

34:07

bizarre how we'd never actually met each

34:09

other. Well, I'd given my number

34:11

and just said, oh, we'll all get

34:13

together and we go out. On

34:15

the Tuesday when I got home, I

34:17

had seven calls from my phone.

34:19

It's Chris and I was like, oh

34:21

my God. Really excited, really happy,

34:23

but also you need to make some

34:25

decisions. So go away and come back.

34:28

From when you're ready kind of

34:30

thing. And I guess he then went

34:32

and called off the wedding, what

34:34

was going to be. And then you

34:36

guys were free to do what

34:38

I guess was destined to be if

34:40

you kept meeting all these places,

34:42

but not meeting. It's like the whole

34:45

sliding doors effect, isn't it? A

34:47

hundred percent. I mean, he, you

34:50

know, it was, they had

34:52

a conversation, mutually agreed that they

34:54

shouldn't really be getting married. Obviously,

34:57

I didn't know all this was happening

34:59

at the time until a couple

35:01

of weeks later and he just said,

35:03

I'm free, I'm free and available.

35:05

You know, can we meet up and

35:07

see if the spark or the

35:10

attraction that was there, was it just

35:12

something that was there or is

35:14

it more? So we got together, chatted

35:16

about things. I just wanted to

35:18

make sure that he'd

35:20

made the right decision.

35:22

Yeah. And yeah, three months

35:24

later, I think it was, we were

35:26

living together. Oh, wow. And

35:28

it went a bit

35:31

mad. So I met him in

35:33

2007. Right. We

35:35

were engaged in

35:38

2008, married 2009 and

35:40

then had Scarlett

35:42

2010. What did your friends

35:44

think when you told them? Was some of

35:46

them a bit, because obviously you'd want your

35:48

mates to be cautious and not get hurt

35:50

in the process. Of

35:52

course. I would never go out

35:54

to hurt anybody. You know,

35:56

I'd never cheated. I'd never lied.

35:58

I've never... As far as

36:00

I was concerned, it was just us

36:02

having a laugh on holiday and I was

36:04

probably never ever going to see him again. So

36:07

when all this started to unfold

36:09

a little bit, my friends were just like, life's

36:12

too short, you know, even if

36:14

he's happy, decisions have been made, then

36:16

just go for it. My mum

36:18

was the complete opposite. She was like, stay

36:20

away, stay away, I'm going

36:22

to work. Abbie, in your line of work,

36:24

is that sometimes happened to you? Do

36:26

people sometimes come to you heartbroken because their

36:28

partner has left them? But then obviously,

36:30

you're not always meant to be with that

36:33

one person. I've been engaged before. mean,

36:35

I've just had been, this is my third

36:37

engagement because... Is it? Yeah, it's the

36:39

third. They don't always just ask me. And

36:41

we've never even discussed it. I mean,

36:43

me and Gorka discussed it. He's the only

36:45

person who I said, yeah, I would

36:47

love to marry. The other two just proposed.

36:49

I was like, oh, yes. But then

36:51

six weeks later, was like, no, I

36:53

can't do it. Because you just

36:55

know, people do sometimes go through

36:57

with an engagement or a wedding

36:59

knowing it's the wrong person, but

37:02

a fear of how do you get

37:04

out of it? And it's going to be

37:06

hard to stay in that relationship over time.

37:08

If you're going into it, you're not fully

37:10

committed. So I admire Deb's partner actually for

37:12

saying, do you know what? This is wrong

37:14

because it could have been a whole lot.

37:16

I'm trying to get out of a divorce. It's even

37:18

harder, isn't it? He's done her a favour. I

37:20

hope she's okay. Yeah. But he has done her a

37:22

favour like long term. And when you got engaged,

37:24

was a few of you, I mean, I imagine your

37:26

mum was like, well, he's done it to her.

37:29

He'll do it to you. Did you get loads of

37:31

that stuff? No,

37:33

because we were just so good

37:35

together. Everybody could see how

37:37

happy we were, and still are

37:39

obviously, that

37:41

he actually did it in my mum's

37:44

house in front of her. Oh, really? Yeah.

37:47

So no, everything just naturally,

37:49

organically just sort of happened.

37:52

You know, I was 27, never

37:54

been engaged before. So I

37:56

was absolutely elated that somebody wanted

37:58

to marry me. Yeah. suggest

38:00

to anybody at that point, I think. But

38:02

his ex has actually gone on.

38:04

She's with somebody now who she met

38:07

the same year and they're still

38:09

happy still together, have a child. So

38:11

it's just obviously wasn't meant to

38:13

be for them, but obviously was for

38:15

us. Yeah, it's the whole sliding

38:17

doors moment. There's times I

38:19

was, I've spoken about this on a

38:21

radio show, I was on a holiday

38:23

with my ex and we

38:25

were dancing in this, it's called Send Your

38:27

Frogs in the Bahamas and unbeknownst to

38:30

me, a cruise ship pulled on the beach

38:32

front and we were stood with some

38:34

drinks literally pointing at the cruise ship saying,

38:36

oh my gosh, look, it's massive, look.

38:38

And Gorka was performing on that cruise ship.

38:41

Randomly, we worked this out on the in

38:43

Gorks. But I was there with my

38:45

ex, so at the time I thought, I'm

38:48

gonna marry him, I've kids, this is

38:50

it. And then three months later, turns out

38:52

he had another life elsewhere and another

38:54

partner and all that, which was fabulous. But

38:56

then I met Gorka and

38:58

it's the whole sliding moments of we're in the

39:00

same, we're in a different country without even

39:02

knowing both of us together. But

39:05

at the time, you do genuinely think you're meant

39:07

to be with the person you're with

39:09

because otherwise why would you be with them? Exactly,

39:11

yeah. So you're proof that a

39:13

red flag can sometimes turn into something wonderful.

39:15

Yeah, I guess so, that's, yeah. It's

39:17

nice to end on a happy note, isn't

39:19

it? It is, yeah. Yeah. Oh, well,

39:21

thank you so much, Devs, for coming on

39:24

and sharing and congrats on your little,

39:26

your love story. I love that it started

39:28

in Magaluff as well. Hopefully,

39:30

come on. I used to love

39:32

Magaluff. We used to stay, we used

39:35

to stay, it was two -star apartments,

39:37

you're the club, BCM, I don't

39:39

know, BCM. Next to it, there's like

39:41

this gray tower of apartments, two -star. We

39:43

used to fly and stay there for

39:45

the weekend with the girls and wait for

39:47

all the lads from BCM to come

39:49

out. It was awful, but I'm glad I

39:51

did it, same. Yeah, yeah. Well, I

39:54

went back the following year with the girls.

39:56

I was like, don't worry, love, I'm

39:58

happy with you, you're all right. And... And when

40:00

we did get married he did have a

40:02

stag do as well and we'll have that.

40:05

Oh, did he? Brilliant. I love that used

40:07

to. Yeah, you'll be fine. Oh, brilliant.

40:09

Oh, thank you, Deb. Congrats on finding

40:11

your person. And yeah, enjoy the rest

40:14

of your day. Thanks for over sharing.

40:16

No, that's fine. And good luck as

40:18

well, Jim, with everything. Take care.

40:27

Well that's it from our red flags

40:29

episode thank you so much for getting in

40:31

touch and a special thanks to the overshares

40:34

as well who've been so brave to join

40:36

us they really have and I know how

40:38

it is you can leave us a review

40:40

please do because we read them all and

40:43

thank you to our pals at DFS actually

40:45

these are the ones we've got us these

40:47

lovely couches so sort of messaging me where's

40:50

that couch from? I'll tell you it's from

40:52

DFS. The Overshare is produced by Matt Foister

40:54

and Molly Carter for Bower Media, so thank

40:56

you to both of you. And thank you

40:58

guys for listening, it means the world to

41:01

us, and thank you to Abby as well

41:03

for being here. You'll see more of Abby

41:05

throughout the series. We'll see you next time

41:07

for more over sharing.