0:03

This is the Paranormal Podcast with

0:06

Jim Harreld. Welcome to

0:08

the Paranormal Podcast. I am Jim

0:10

Harreld and we have Professor Paranormal

0:13

himself with us today. I'm

0:16

talking about Lloyd Auerbach. He

0:18

is a long time parapsychologist.

0:20

I believe he started in

0:23

1979 and he was

0:25

the very first guest in this show

0:27

and on this show back in

0:29

2005. Now

0:31

he has a master's degree

0:33

in parapsychology. He

0:36

teaches classes at the Ryan

0:38

Institute. He is

0:40

the head of the Forever Family Foundation, I

0:42

believe it is Lloyd. And

0:45

he's authored at least nine books

0:47

on the paranormal. It might

0:49

be more. I know he's also delved into some

0:52

recent fiction books

0:55

and so glad to have him on the show

0:57

again. Lloyd, welcome to the program as always.

1:00

Thank you very much Jim. Good to see

1:02

you again. Good to see you. And

1:05

again, you were the very first guest I

1:07

had on the show and I don't know

1:09

much now, but I knew

1:11

even less then and you were

1:13

very gracious and very patient. And

1:15

thank you for taking the plunge.

1:17

You probably did one of the

1:19

very early interviews about the paranormal

1:21

on a podcasting. It was 2005.

1:24

Yeah, I think everything else before that was

1:26

pretty much radio. Yeah,

1:31

2004 was really the star podcast. As

1:33

far as I know, this show is the

1:35

longest continuously running podcast on the paranormal

1:37

as much as I know, as far as

1:39

I can tell. If I'm wrong, somebody's

1:41

welcome to correct

1:43

me. So, you

1:45

know, we talked all those years ago

1:47

about the paranormal and so forth and

1:49

we always want to get some kind

1:52

of answers about what's going on about

1:54

ghosts and the afterlife and those kinds

1:56

of things. And I recall in

1:58

one of our interviews and I don't know which one it

2:00

was because we talked multiple times over the years. But

2:03

I said, you know, something like, oh, we'll never have the

2:05

answers to this. And I believe your

2:07

indication was, well, we might be

2:09

closer than you think, or we might be making

2:11

progress. Are we making progress

2:13

in getting answers? Well,

2:15

you know, in some respects in science, since

2:20

that first interview, there's

2:22

been recognition in mainstream science that

2:25

consciousness itself needs

2:27

study to figure out what it is. Although

2:30

there's all sorts of definitions in different fields

2:32

of science, and a lot of

2:34

disagreement even within individual sciences. All

2:38

that we deal with in parapsychology, all

2:40

psychic phenomena, which includes apparitions, you know,

2:42

ghosts and hauntings and things like that,

2:45

that's all related to the consciousness. And

2:49

we needed science

2:51

to start looking at that question

2:53

of what is consciousness before

2:56

we could actually get

2:58

in there, you might say. I mean, we have,

3:01

what's really interesting is many folks in other fields

3:03

of science now are starting to come look at

3:05

our research, both outside

3:08

the lab, but also mainly in the lab,

3:10

because that's controlled research, because

3:12

we're the only field that's really been

3:15

looking at effects of consciousness beyond, you

3:18

know, what we believe, what we think, our

3:20

subjective perspective in many respects. So

3:23

I think we are a tiny step

3:25

forward for sure, and

3:27

that can only get closer as more and more

3:30

folks come in and start looking at consciousness from

3:32

different directions. Even

3:36

more so in the last 20 years, you

3:40

know, the paranormal has become, I think,

3:42

even more popular, you know, the

3:45

proliferation of podcasts alone, and

3:48

the TV shows and everything. And to me,

3:50

that would seem to be almost like a

3:52

double-edged sword. Overall, do you view it as

3:55

a good thing? And I guess maybe you could

3:57

talk a little bit about what's good about it,

3:59

maybe not. What's not so good about it?

4:02

Well, the thing that's good about it the

4:05

shows the TV shows the podcast everything else

4:07

has brought people out of the woodwork In

4:10

admitting that they're interested at

4:12

least in this phenomena and also people have

4:14

had experience is able to talk about them

4:17

without as much of a stigma

4:21

You know by people say thinking you're weird

4:23

or you're strange so that that has been

4:25

a positive it

4:27

has brought more people of Small

4:30

small small percentage of those people but it

4:32

still brought more people to look at Paris

4:34

psychology into our field or towards our field

4:38

Which has really been great? The

4:40

downside has been that the majority of the

4:42

folks who have expressed interest who have gone

4:45

out to do anything about it Sadly

4:48

are following what they see on TV

4:50

as reality that that's the way it

4:52

is and That's

4:54

clear, you know reality no reality TV is

4:56

reality except maybe sporting events and even that

4:58

might have a slight edge depending on How

5:01

it's being covered so

5:04

There's a lot of bad in bad

5:06

science that's coming through. There's

5:08

a lot of pushing

5:11

People are letting people think that anybody can go

5:14

out and do an investigation and do a good

5:16

job and gather evidence and understand The evidence all

5:18

of that Which is actually

5:20

not true. You have to have some understanding of

5:22

certain things at least and It

5:26

really has caused a lot of

5:28

new folklore to take the

5:30

place of old folklore so

5:35

What kind of example I mean Well that

5:37

the only way to do investigations is

5:39

with high-tech equipment or seemingly tech equipment

5:42

That these devices there can be

5:44

devices can detect ghosts Which

5:46

would be saying we have devices

5:48

that can detect consciousness because

5:50

that's what a ghost is this consciousness But

5:53

we have no idea what a ghost is made out

5:55

of So, how would

5:57

we come up with something to detect it? You

6:00

know, we can do an inference. We

6:02

have been using environmental sensors to

6:06

see if there's a change in the environment, what

6:09

the state of the environment is when, let's say,

6:11

you're in the room and you see the ghost.

6:13

What's going on then versus when you don't? And

6:16

there are some really interesting things that come out of that, but

6:18

none of that is a direct indication

6:20

that the ghost is present. The only

6:23

thing that's the direct indication a ghost is present

6:25

is the person who's experiencing the ghost.

6:29

So there's that folklore that the shows have

6:31

kind of pulled people away from what,

6:34

unfortunately, ghost hunters, the TV show,

6:36

downplayed as anecdotal evidence, which

6:39

is, you know, the evidence that we have of

6:41

our experience, which is the only thing that even

6:43

says a ghost is there, in

6:46

favor of equipment which

6:49

doesn't detect ghosts. So there's serious

6:51

folklore around that. One

6:53

of the biggest pieces, of course, is that ghost seemingly the

6:55

best time to go ghost hunting is in

6:57

the dark at night, you know,

6:59

with the lights out. And that's contradictory

7:02

to, I'd say, probably 95

7:04

percent of all the experiences ever reported

7:07

of encounters with ghosts. Because

7:09

you can't see them. Well,

7:12

it's not even that. It's like

7:16

most people are asleep at three o'clock in

7:18

the morning. It's not like ghosts

7:20

suddenly show up and wake people up. Most

7:22

of these buildings, like the prisons and

7:24

all the silence, nobody's

7:27

there at that time except maybe a couple

7:29

security guys. And unless the security guys

7:31

have been seeing something at three o'clock in the morning, why

7:34

would you think the ghosts would be around when

7:36

people are experiencing them during the day?

7:39

Now, you know, that brings up another point.

7:41

Something you mentioned one time when we were

7:43

talking. I think you mentioned it. I just

7:46

saw an article about this about why aren't

7:48

ghosts naked. Yeah.

7:50

Yeah. And

7:53

I was actually doing a podcast and this

7:55

came up and I mentioned you because I

7:57

thought we talked about this. Oh, yeah. We

7:59

did. People always people. people always see, you

8:01

know, in period dress or things. Can you

8:03

talk about that? How, how glow ghosts are

8:06

clothed, not clothed? And why do we see

8:08

what we see? Sure. Well, and

8:10

remember, there's two types of things people might see and

8:12

call a ghost. One is going to be that residual

8:14

haunting that replay. And the

8:16

thing and this is, this is kind of a, it's

8:19

not exactly folklore, but it's a misinterpretation

8:21

of hauntings. Hauntings

8:23

are recorded into the environment by

8:26

living people, not by dead people. Dead

8:28

people have nothing to do with hauntings anymore

8:30

than Humphrey Bogart has anything to do with

8:32

movies. Now that he's dead, we

8:35

can watch him, watch

8:37

the movies he made when he was alive. Right.

8:41

But he made them when he was alive. So it's

8:43

a, it's a, it's the same thing with hauntings.

8:45

So most people would be recorded into the environment,

8:48

their activity when

8:50

they're wearing clothes. That's number one

8:53

on the conscious entity,

8:55

conscious apparition piece. Ghosts

8:59

are, it's pretty clear ghosts are not

9:01

optical phenomena. In other words, they're

9:03

not manifesting themselves out of ectoplasm, like

9:06

the spiritualists often would talk about. Right.

9:08

And we know that because there

9:10

have been many instances where one

9:13

person sees the ghost and nobody else does. And

9:16

it's very clear there's nothing different about that

9:18

person's eyes, or there may be one person

9:20

who sees the ghost and someone else

9:23

is hearing the ghost talking and

9:25

someone else in the room is feeling a presence

9:27

and someone else may even smell perfume or cologne

9:30

associated. In other words, it's like the five blind

9:32

men in the elephant, right? Picking up different pieces.

9:35

So it seems that apparitions

9:38

are thinking as human beings, because

9:40

they're deceased human beings, still think of themselves looking a

9:42

certain way, like all of us do. We all have

9:44

a self image of her, you know, and

9:47

our self image with rare exception is

9:50

wearing clothing for the most part. And

9:53

my self image, I'm six two and

9:55

really buff, but Well, yeah,

9:57

and I have darker hair and I have hair. So,

10:00

you know, I know I'm going to

10:02

look a lot better when I die. That's the

10:04

other thing is that apparitions often appear not

10:07

how they look when they passed away, but

10:09

how they looked in their prime. Right. And

10:11

the apparitions will often change their clothing. They

10:13

will change, you know, depending on how they

10:15

feel that day. That day, apparently, we have

10:17

many cases. I have several cases of my

10:19

own that are like that. So

10:22

it's it's really about consciousness

10:24

and that self image. And what

10:26

we as living people are capable

10:29

of picking up. The reason

10:31

I might see a ghost and you might not is

10:33

because my consciousness, my brain,

10:35

my perceptual process, my ESP

10:38

is more visual than yours is. My yours might

10:40

be more auditory. I mean, I actually have never

10:43

seen a ghost because I don't think

10:45

my ESP is very visual in that sense. So,

10:49

OK, so these are

10:51

apparitions you're talking about, right? So, yeah,

10:55

they're in your view, they are the

10:57

spirits of dead people or the

11:00

consciousness of dead people presenting itself.

11:03

Consciousness is, you know, spirit

11:06

is pretty charged, but, you know,

11:08

we can we can interchange spirit,

11:10

consciousness, mind, right? Ghost. You

11:13

know, in different cultures, the word ghost has a lot of terrible

11:16

baggage to it. So. So

11:19

not that you know, because I don't know that you could know,

11:21

but why do you think that these

11:25

consciousnesses, why

11:28

do they present themselves? Is it because, you

11:30

know, the one that really gets

11:32

me annoyed is the whole stuck thing,

11:35

they're stuck. You know, how

11:37

do you know that they're stuck? But and

11:39

then how do you know you're supposed to

11:41

put them to the light and who qualified

11:43

you to put them to the point? Yeah,

11:45

that's right. That's that's an actual ethical question.

11:47

And it's highly unethical without asking that apparition

11:50

if they want to move on to the

11:52

other side, if it's, you know, to do

11:54

that. Psychics, the mediums I've

11:56

worked with have been pretty strong, strict about

11:58

that. Everybody should have free will. And

14:00

I'll call them a ghost for lack of a better phrase. Would

14:03

they tend to follow a person?

14:06

In other words, let's say that there's an

14:08

elderly couple and the

14:10

husband and wife passes, the other person

14:13

moves to a smaller apartment, downsizes,

14:16

whatever, assisted living, whatever.

14:19

Would the ghost tend to follow the

14:21

person or would they tend to stay

14:23

in the physical location or is it

14:25

case by case? It's case

14:27

by case. It really is case by case. What

14:30

we do know is that there's

14:34

not really a connection between where you die

14:36

and sticking around in that location as

14:39

a ghost, unless the

14:41

location that you died in is also

14:43

where you lived or had

14:45

your fondest memories. So

14:47

we have a lot of apparitions that

14:49

might be haunting restaurants or

14:52

bars, social places

14:55

that they hung out while they

14:57

were alive. They didn't die anywhere

14:59

near those places. They didn't die at the bar. They

15:01

didn't die in the hotel. They didn't die in the

15:03

restaurant, but they go back to those places.

15:07

The ghosts on the USS Hornet Aircraft

15:09

Carrying Museum, there

15:12

may be one or two who did die. There's

15:14

actually very few deaths that had occurred in the,

15:17

from 1943 to 1970, when the

15:19

ship was in service, like really small number. But

15:22

the majority of them, several have been identified as

15:24

people who died in civilian life after the ship

15:26

was decommissioned. They didn't

15:28

die anywhere near the ship. Ship was in the shipyards. They

15:32

came back to the ship for personal

15:34

reasons. It was meaningful to them. It

15:37

was meaningful to them. That's right. That's what we get from all

15:39

of them. And by the way, they

15:41

look a lot younger than they did when they died. So

15:43

they're looking like- Yeah, I mean, on my campfire show, people

15:46

have reported seeing ghosts

15:49

of family members and a lot of time it's

15:51

in their prime. And I was wondering why that

15:53

was, but maybe that's how the

15:55

ghost or the consciousness kind

15:58

of perceives themselves. That's how- a mental

16:00

view of it. There's that joke

16:02

about us older guys thinking of ourselves as 30,

16:04

and I think it's probably true. Yeah,

16:06

oh, I think it's true. And I'm

16:08

right there now, I'm right in the

16:11

middle of middle aged, and yeah, I

16:13

look and I'm like, wait a

16:15

minute, I don't look like that. And it's like, oh yes,

16:17

you do? Yeah, no, I'm still, although my

16:20

body will react differently, I'm still in my 30s,

16:22

yeah. Yes, me too, me too, I'm

16:24

right there with you. So, okay,

16:27

so what do you think? I mean,

16:29

you've had to develop theories over the

16:31

years. What do you think happens to

16:33

us when we physically die? What's

16:36

next, what happens, what do you think? So,

16:40

first of all, I should say that there's probably

16:44

another variable

16:46

that is happening in

16:50

the environment, most likely in the environment

16:52

when the person dies, that

16:56

along with the person's desire or

16:58

psychological set to stick around, allows

17:01

them to stay. I'm convinced

17:03

that we'd have a lot more ghosts

17:06

hanging around if there

17:08

wasn't another variable. And it

17:10

seems, because we have found that

17:13

there's one variable that does seem to

17:15

connect or correlate to psychic performance in

17:17

general, and that is the

17:20

Earth's magnetic field on a local level,

17:22

the geomagnetic field. So, it

17:24

may be the geomagnetic field has some impact

17:27

in that location, that joke about, well, if

17:29

the conditions are right. And there

17:31

may be something to that. I

17:33

cannot rule out, however, something very

17:36

non-scientific, which is a more spiritual

17:38

reason. There

17:40

may be something to the idea that the

17:43

universe, God, God's, whatever you wanna believe in,

17:47

has a plan, or there's karma

17:49

involved, there's something that is

17:51

included here as well. Which,

17:54

by the way, is one of the reasons why

17:56

the psychics I know will never push someone into

17:58

the light without their permission, because... that

18:00

might be going against whatever the plan is.

18:04

Is it possible, because a lot

18:06

of times with near-death experiences, people

18:08

will report seeing religious figures that

18:10

map to their religious tradition. Right,

18:12

right. So is it possible

18:15

that we all, for example,

18:17

the concept of heaven, if we believe in

18:19

heaven, might we all

18:21

experience a slightly different heaven depending on

18:23

what we're expecting or what we hope

18:25

for? Or what do you think about that?

18:27

Sure, sure. That's something I have heard

18:30

from some mediums. If you read the novel

18:32

or watch the movie, What Dreams May Come,

18:34

the novel was written by Richard Matheson. That's

18:36

what that's all about. I

18:39

work with a lot of mediums, or

18:41

have been with a lot of mediums

18:43

because of the Forever Family Foundation. We

18:45

certify mediums for a testing process. And

18:48

in general, they feel

18:50

that when one transitions to the next level,

18:53

to the other side, whatever you wanna call

18:55

it, first of

18:57

all, you end up with a kind of a life review.

18:59

You're kind of confronted with every good and bad thing you

19:01

did in your life, which could

19:03

be hell for people. Let's face it. Yeah,

19:06

I mean. That may be the

19:08

only form of hell there is at this point. Yeah,

19:10

I mean, even I think I'm a pretty

19:12

good guy, and I had never done anything

19:14

really bad, but there's a few things I've

19:17

done like, oh, that was, I mean, I

19:19

think I can tell you one thing. I

19:21

was in college and a bunch of us,

19:24

they're a group of people, and we pulled this

19:26

mean trick on this one young woman. And

19:29

it was nothing where

19:32

she was physically in danger, but we

19:34

played this mean trick on her. And I've

19:37

looked back and I said, how insensitive

19:39

and how, and we've all

19:41

done something that we're not proud of, right? I mean,

19:43

I guess if that's the worst thing you ever do,

19:47

but that's one that really comes back, and that's

19:49

30 plus years ago. And I still, I'm like,

19:51

that was not very nice. And

19:53

I'm sure if there's a life review, I'm gonna

19:56

see how she felt. And you know what?

19:58

I kind of deserve it. Yeah,

20:00

so that's one thing that

20:02

they talk about. The other,

20:05

you know, mediums are

20:07

asked quite often, what's

20:09

the afterlife like? And

20:12

generally, mediums around the world kind of

20:15

relate it as a very pleasant place.

20:17

You get to meet, see people who have passed away.

20:21

But the biggest problem, and I've talked to the mediums

20:23

about this, this is as they're describing things, is

20:26

that suddenly you're in an

20:28

existence where your pure consciousness, you know,

20:30

you're a spirit, right, you don't have

20:32

a physical form. How

20:35

would that consciousness, that spirit,

20:37

be able to relay that experience,

20:42

conceptually or otherwise, to

20:44

a living person who's got a body? You

20:47

know, there's that old adage when describing alien

20:49

worlds in science fiction, it could be more

20:51

different than we can imagine. And

20:54

I suspect that while

20:56

our consciousness has, some

20:59

ability to maybe manifest or

21:01

create or perceive things

21:03

a certain way after death, that

21:06

on the other side, whatever you wanna call

21:08

it, it is very, very

21:10

different. But they can only

21:12

communicate to us in terms that we can understand. Well,

21:15

that's the thing, you know, a lot of times

21:17

I'll hear people, and I even have people in

21:19

my family who, you know, a family member has

21:21

passed, and they wanna have communication

21:24

with them, and they say, oh, I've not gotten a

21:26

sign from my mom and she's been gone for 15

21:29

years, she must not love me. You

21:31

know, and it's like, well, we don't know how difficult

21:33

that is. There

21:35

may be reasons that they don't

21:37

communicate, maybe they can't communicate, maybe

21:40

the circumstances have to be just

21:42

right, cosmically or

21:44

atmospherically, or we don't know what

21:46

that's like, so I don't take that

21:48

as a sign as that person didn't

21:50

care for you. Well, there's that, and

21:52

maybe they see that, you

21:54

know, on the other side, they see that you really don't

21:57

need to communicate with them. You

21:59

know, there is... the need as well. One of the the

22:03

forms of negative reviews that I see mediums

22:05

getting, which is to me kind of absurd,

22:07

considering they explained this right up front, is

22:11

not communicating with the

22:13

spirit, the person you wanted to talk to,

22:16

right? So I see this in some

22:18

of the reading, the gallery readings and stuff. So someone,

22:21

the medium call someone out goes over to someone says,

22:23

got someone here for you. It's your father and goes

22:25

on and on. The woman says, I don't want to

22:27

talk to my father. I came here to talk to

22:30

my mother. So like, well,

22:32

your, your father says your mother feels

22:34

that it's more important that I talk

22:36

to you, or your mother's not available,

22:38

or she's busy. Or, you know,

22:41

it's kind of like, in

22:43

the old days, when we had landlines, and

22:45

we called a friend's house, and there was a family

22:47

at the friend's house. And we asked

22:49

to speak to our friend. And

22:51

we were told he's out or he's not

22:53

available. Maybe he's in the bathroom, I don't

22:56

know, but couldn't come to

22:58

the phone. So we're talking to somebody else at

23:01

that point. Right. So it's, we

23:04

can't assume that it's not, I think

23:06

the best way to put it, it's not dial the spirit. Right?

23:09

Yeah. It's not like the contacts

23:12

in your smartphone, you can't just go bloop and hit

23:14

them. No, that's right. Well, I mean, even so I

23:16

end up getting voicemail a lot of times. That's true.

23:18

And then I would think it kind

23:20

of flip side of that if a psychic says, you

23:22

want to get in touch with your mom, I can

23:26

100%. Oh, you know, guarantee

23:28

that I can reach your mom and get

23:30

a message back and forth from her. That

23:33

would seem to be a big red flag for me. It

23:35

is amazing. It's one of the many red

23:37

flags that would make me say it's any

23:40

claim by any psychic, or frankly,

23:42

any claim by anybody that they can guarantee 100%

23:44

the first time that they try

23:46

something they can do it is

23:48

questionable. It doesn't matter what occupation they're

23:51

in. I'm sorry, people are humans are

23:53

fallible. But with psychics and

23:55

mediums it is. It has

23:58

been the case because it's been something that

24:00

some of the more mediums media savvy or

24:02

media appearance full psychics

24:04

have done, they've claimed accuracy rates.

24:08

And it's not possible

24:11

to calculate your 95% accurate from

24:13

your readings. It's just not possible. Because

24:16

if you start asking a couple of questions like,

24:19

have you ever made any predictions that were like

24:21

a year out? Did you then

24:23

communicate with the person a year later? Did they

24:25

tell you what happened? It

24:27

just doesn't, there's no followup in

24:29

that way. It's

24:31

claiming to be able to communicate

24:33

with anybody that you want.

24:37

It's just not, it's not gonna happen when you're alive. It's

24:40

not gonna happen when they're dead. So

24:43

it just is a red flag. And it

24:45

means either the psychic is

24:47

desperate for your business, which

24:50

is possible because they need clients. And

24:53

so they're exaggerating. Or they

24:55

are just simply, they don't care. They

24:58

don't care to be telling the truth. And I'd worry about

25:00

what I'm getting then during the reading. Yeah,

25:03

that makes sense. Now, one

25:05

of my favorite topics in

25:08

the paranormal and particularly about the afterlife

25:10

or potentially about the afterlife is that

25:13

of NDEs. I've been lucky enough to

25:15

interview Dr. Moody a couple of times.

25:18

And quite a few people on

25:21

the subject of NDEs. And the common

25:23

refrain you hear from the skeptics, oh,

25:26

it's just brain chemistry easing

25:28

the dying process. Now I have

25:30

my own rebuttals to that, but

25:33

I would rather hear yours because I'm sure

25:35

there'll be much more erudite. So tell us

25:37

why NDEs or tell us

25:40

if you think that NDEs are a

25:42

lot more than brain chemistry trying to

25:44

guard us against the dying process. Well,

25:47

first of all, there

25:51

may be some cases where brain

25:53

chemistry is responsible for hallucinations, but

25:56

it's not that we don't see

25:59

people dying. the same way, you

26:01

know, or near-death, or brain

26:03

chemistry the same way, generating

26:05

near-death experiences otherwise. It

26:08

doesn't, the near-death experience does not happen to everybody.

26:10

That's number one. Number two, the

26:13

combination of different effects

26:16

doesn't happen to everybody, especially the

26:20

tunnel and the light. That doesn't happen

26:22

to everybody. In fact, there's, I

26:24

discovered when I was in Japan years ago doing

26:26

a show with a Japanese

26:28

medium, they brought me over to do a show

26:30

on near-death experiences. And I talked

26:32

to a number of people who had near-death experiences, and

26:35

they had been reading on

26:37

the Western experience of the tunnel and

26:39

the light, and they were surprised because

26:42

they had a bridge on a

26:44

sunny day and over a stream or a river

26:46

and a garden where an ancestor spirit

26:49

was waiting for them. So

26:51

it was a very different experience, and that

26:53

is totally contradictory to a whole little optic

26:55

nerve shutting down for the tunnel. There

26:58

is the, for a number, or

27:00

percentage of near-death experiences, there is

27:03

the dramatic shift in

27:05

perspective that is more than just knowing

27:07

you're not afraid of death anymore or

27:09

believing you're not afraid of death anymore.

27:13

It has generated psychic experiences and

27:15

abilities after the fact, kind of

27:17

opened people up. It's opened

27:19

people up to different philosophies, to different

27:21

emotional states. And in fact, it's

27:24

led to divorces and

27:26

breakups and all sorts of things. And

27:29

then we have the occasional

27:31

out-of-body experience that

27:33

happens not with all NDEs, but with

27:36

enough of them with

27:38

verifiable information that I

27:40

love hearing the skeptics trying to explain away. You

27:43

know, oh, they overheard the conversation. Yeah,

27:46

and they visually, so the surgeons were

27:48

visually describing everything they were doing in

27:51

there. That's number one. So how

27:53

come they knew what was going on in the

27:55

next operating theater? How could they describe that? Could

27:58

the surgeons in your operation... theater,

28:00

you know, in that operate could

28:02

they hear what was going on next door? I

28:04

mean there are

28:06

some other cases where there's limited or

28:09

no brain activity, you know, not enough

28:11

to actually generate anything

28:13

in the way of memories. I've heard that,

28:16

well, this all comes rushing back as you're coming out of

28:18

it. Again, that doesn't

28:20

explain all of that information, all of the

28:22

the viewpoints. And there are situations where the

28:25

OBE person goes around the hospital

28:27

or is looking is seeing some

28:29

things that could not possibly have

28:31

been seen from the perspective

28:33

or point where their body

28:35

was. Things like that. Right.

28:38

They're one of my favorite and I

28:40

always forget his last name I've interviewed

28:42

him. He had a book out called

28:44

After and Dr. Bruce Grayson. Yes,

28:46

Bruce Grayson. And he told a

28:48

story where somebody was in

28:51

one of these situations near-death

28:53

experience, had the out-of-body experience,

28:55

and he described the surgeon

28:57

flapping his arms

28:59

like a chicken. And,

29:02

you know, Dr. Grayson, you know, kind of thought,

29:04

well, what do you mean flapping his

29:07

arms like a chicken? Well, turns

29:09

out after, you know, the the surgeon

29:11

was sterilized, he had a habit of

29:14

pointing to different instruments with his elbows.

29:17

Give me the scalpel, give me the sutures, give me

29:19

this, give me that, which gave the appearance of

29:21

flapping his arms like a chicken. You know,

29:24

and again, exactly, that's my

29:26

rebuttal. And again, I have

29:30

a hard time speaking in absolutes. I

29:32

mean, yeah, maybe sometimes it is, as

29:34

you said, an act of brain chemistry.

29:36

But conversely, I

29:39

also have a problem speaking in absolutes that

29:41

it's all brain chemistry because how do you

29:43

explain things like that? Right. And

29:46

it's interesting, if I remember

29:49

correctly, the greatest percentage of near-death

29:51

experiences are at least pleasant or

29:53

neutral. There are a few hell-like

29:57

experiences. What do you think about

29:59

that? It's a very, very small

30:01

percentage where people go through the tunnel and

30:03

it's a hellish landscape and

30:07

demons, devils, whatever. You know, we already know

30:09

that people's beliefs have an influence on who

30:12

they perceive at

30:14

the other side of the tunnel. And it

30:16

seems from what I understand a number, if not,

30:18

I don't know if it's all of them, but

30:20

a number of those same people grew

30:23

up and were in a

30:25

very fundamentalist Christian religion or some other,

30:27

some of our fundamentalist religion, kind of

30:29

a hellfire and brimstone type, you know,

30:32

holy roller type religion. So

30:35

the expectation, my guess

30:37

is these people didn't think very highly of themselves or

30:39

they knew that they were bad people. So

30:42

they got what they expected. Yeah,

30:45

and I was exposed to some of that when I was

30:47

young, so I hope I hope that doesn't come rushing back

30:49

at the the hour

30:52

there. But

30:54

anyway, yeah, I've heard that many

30:56

times. Now, reincarnation is an interesting

30:58

one because you

31:01

know, it's what James Leininger was the young

31:03

boy, I believe it was, who had that

31:05

experience of being able to recount all

31:07

these World War II aviator experiences

31:11

and it was traced back and it seemed

31:13

to, if I remember correctly, make sense and

31:16

he could tell things that this this

31:19

killed aviator could have

31:21

only known and so forth. Now,

31:23

do you think that those kind of cases,

31:25

and there's many more of them where people

31:28

bring forward details that they they shouldn't be

31:30

able to know, but they know, do you

31:32

think it's a case of them actually reincarnating

31:35

or do you think it's potentially a

31:37

case where they're accessing

31:40

some kind of consciousness, maybe

31:42

the consciousness of that

31:44

past person and they're

31:46

not lying, they're not making it

31:48

up, but those memories are coming

31:50

flooded back. Basically, they're channeling that

31:52

person. Which would still

31:54

to me be pretty paranormal. What are

31:56

your thoughts? Well,

31:58

first we're dealing with the cases

32:01

that folks in my field deal

32:03

with, mainly the University of Virginia

32:05

Division of Perceptual Studies. Jim B.

32:07

Tucker and Ian Stevenson? Yeah. Yeah.

32:09

Well, more recently, it's been Jim

32:11

Tucker. Yeah. Started out with Stevenson

32:14

and Tucker, Jim is retiring at the end

32:16

of this year. I'm

32:18

not sure who the lead person is going to be next

32:20

year, but- I got to interview him once. He

32:23

was interesting. Yeah. I

32:25

mean, they've had some amazing cases. There's

32:29

kids that started out remembering these past lives

32:31

between two and four years old. They typically

32:34

forget by about age six, memories

32:37

start going away. There's

32:40

a couple of things that indicate that there's something

32:42

more than just channeling going on. One

32:46

of which is actually the context that

32:50

when someone is on trance, let's say

32:52

a medium's in trance or someone goes

32:54

into trance spontaneously and channels a spirit

32:56

or something like a mediumistic type situation,

32:58

which can happen spontaneously too. You

33:01

hear I am, you don't

33:03

hear I was. Interesting.

33:06

So there is

33:08

a very different quality

33:11

and context to the way the information

33:13

is delivered. That's number one. There

33:16

are likes and dislikes,

33:19

even food allergies that relate back to the

33:21

previous person's dislikes, that

33:24

seem inherent in the child. So

33:27

it's going way beyond what would be

33:29

a channeled situation. Much, much further

33:31

than that. Haven't there also been physical scars

33:34

or physical marks on the body? About, yeah,

33:36

a certain percentage of the cases. Of

33:39

course, not all cases are solved. In other words,

33:42

they can't always track back who that previous

33:44

personality was. But in

33:46

a decent percentage of the

33:48

solved cases, there

33:50

is a scar or a birthmark of some

33:53

kind that relates to the mode

33:56

of death of that previous personality. And

38:00

he realizes, oh, you're

38:03

not Bob. There's

38:06

a guy who looks exactly like you. He's

38:09

usually here with his wife. I mean, it was just really this

38:11

interesting kind. I went back to the Diner Cup like the next

38:13

day. I miss Bob

38:15

by 10 minutes. I would have liked to have seen

38:18

Bob. But apparently I got

38:20

a double in my old

38:22

town. So it's pretty weird. We

38:25

had things though where people

38:27

report seeing themselves in their own

38:29

house. Yeah, now

38:31

that happens too. And that can very

38:33

well be... Yeah, that's more what I'm

38:35

talking about because some of them... All

38:38

right. So that is more likely a

38:41

residual haunting. In

38:44

other words, they're seeing... Well,

38:46

you know, living people

38:48

leave impressions behind. Not every haunting

38:52

impression that someone sees

38:56

is necessarily of

38:58

a person who made that recording when

39:00

they were alive and now they're dead. We have

39:02

plenty of recordings. We leave stuff behind.

39:06

We leave information behind almost everywhere. So

39:09

you might see yourself coming

39:12

at you for whatever reason, because as

39:14

it happens, the conditions are right. It

39:16

typically has to do with electromagnetic fields,

39:18

the Earth's magnetic field, and our own

39:20

perceptions. So it has been

39:22

the case. I've had these kind of situations reported

39:24

to me where people visually

39:27

or auditorily hear their own voice or hear the

39:29

voice of someone who lives with them, even though

39:31

the person's not there, they didn't

39:33

hear that or see that with their eyes and

39:35

ears. This was all a psychic thing. They

39:37

picked up on that information. One

39:40

of my earliest cases was involving

39:42

a couple that moved into a house that

39:44

was less than six years old. The previous

39:46

couple had left the impression of the

39:49

two of them making love very

39:51

loudly in the next bedroom. You

39:56

got it confirmed. So, you know. Oh,

39:59

that's funny. You had

40:01

a great story for me years

40:03

ago wasn't it wasn't a doppelganger story

40:05

but it was a haunting story and

40:07

it had something to do when you

40:09

were doing a segment for the old TV show

40:11

sightings. And

40:13

wasn't it a case where there had

40:15

been a murder or something and people

40:17

were seeing that kind of reenacting they

40:19

would see the victim they would see

40:21

the perpetrator there was a bit of

40:23

a twist tell us about that. Yeah

40:26

so. First

40:28

of all that segment is available on my

40:30

YouTube the Lloyd hour back YouTube channel so

40:32

if you go to youtube.com/Lloyd hour back it's

40:35

one of the sightings pieces. I

40:37

was up in Portland Oregon it was a couple that

40:40

bought a house got it really cheap the guy was

40:43

an airport security so this is

40:45

near the Portland airport and

40:47

part of the reason they got it so cheap is because there had been

40:49

a murder in the House. Murder

40:52

happened around four o'clock in the afternoon guy killed

40:54

a woman. So

40:56

the couple you know

40:58

they knew all about the murder. So

41:01

they didn't themselves have

41:04

an experience although they

41:06

did find that this one spot in the living

41:09

room felt a little little closed in a little

41:11

weird little emotional. But they had

41:13

relatives over and every so

41:15

often someone would be sitting there reading a book in

41:17

the living room when the relative someone was over or

41:20

in one case it was a that was a

41:22

cousin. It's probably in the video whether

41:24

it was a cousin or somebody else was

41:27

taking a nap on the couch and at four

41:29

o'clock he woke up and saw a man

41:31

knifing you know stabbing a woman she screamed.

41:34

And then was pretty clear that she died you

41:36

know she was dead it just went away so

41:39

it was repetitive at that point that's the timing

41:41

that it actually happened. Interestingly enough,

41:43

and the reason we knew it wasn't a

41:45

ghost per se was because well number one

41:48

it was repetitive and

41:50

number two the killer is in jail.

41:54

Right still alive. Still

41:56

alive yeah yeah that was a recording

41:59

and you know. And

50:00

then the Forever Family Foundation, which

50:02

is an organization you can join for free.

50:05

It's an organization that supports the

50:07

work of evidential spirit mediums in

50:09

the family grieving process, but also

50:12

supports research into life after death.

50:14

And that's just foreverfamilyfoundation.org. I

50:18

should also mention my friends and

50:20

colleagues, Julie Bieschel and Mark

50:22

Baccuzzi who run the Windbridge Research Center. They're

50:24

doing some of the best research on

50:28

mediumship and consciousness. And

50:31

they're just windbridge, just like it sounds.org.

50:35

And finally, I have several

50:37

books on Amazon. My most recent was

50:39

the second edition of

50:41

my book, A Paranormal Casebook, which

50:44

has been updated, some of it's been updated. I'm actually

50:46

working on a second volume for next year. So

50:49

that's on Amazon. And also I've written,

50:53

co-authored a couple of novels with a

50:55

couple of my buddies who are former

50:57

screenwriters, TV writers. The

50:59

first one's called Near Death. The second

51:01

one's called After Life and they're paranormal

51:03

mystery novels, somewhat based in my

51:05

experience. And one of the characters is somewhat based

51:07

on me as well. Pretty cool. Got a

51:09

lot of other books, a lot of other topics that are

51:11

out there. A lot of ghost stuff, but there's

51:15

books like ESP, War is East and West, which

51:17

is on the remote viewing programs. Wow.

51:21

He is a font of information and

51:23

knowledge that's happened to it. Lloyd Auerbach,

51:25

thank you so much for joining us.

51:27

It is always fantastic, Lloyd. Thank

51:30

you, Jim. Always good to talk to you.

51:32

Thank you for tuning into the show. I hope

51:34

you enjoyed it as much as I did when

51:37

I talked to somebody like Lloyd.

51:39

I find myself almost becoming a viewer

51:41

and a listener during the show. And

51:43

I have to go, wait a minute.

51:45

I gotta be ready to ask another

51:47

question. So it's always

51:49

a challenge with Lloyd because I get so

51:51

engaged in his answers. I forget that I'm

51:54

supposed to be hosting. But anyway, thank

51:56

you so much for joining us today. I

51:58

appreciate it.