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1:04

Roll him. Is it Daniel? Dan. Either. All

1:06

right. Dan. Danney seems a bit

1:09

weird. My grandma used to

1:11

call me Danny. Danny, that's

1:13

the old producer of the show,

1:15

it's called Danny. He's off doing

1:17

his own thing. He's a British

1:19

guy, he lives in Australia now.

1:22

He goes in, where is

1:24

he, Brisbane or somewhere? Beautiful,

1:26

one day perfect the next.

1:29

Look, I've been out to

1:31

Australia the last two years. We

1:33

do a little vent there. You got

1:36

the sunshine on the beach. Yeah. the

1:38

good weather, good life. You had something

1:40

the size of all of Europe with

1:42

35 million people. Yeah, whereas we've got

1:45

the shitty version of communism where

1:47

everything's shit. Yeah, miserable, especially this time

1:49

of year. Well look, it's great to

1:51

talk to you. I've been finding you

1:53

on Twitter for a little while now.

1:56

I think you think what you've done

1:58

really well is I think got

2:00

stuff that appeals to me and stuff that

2:02

will appeal to my son in that you've

2:05

got all this great business advice

2:07

for young entrepreneurs where I think

2:09

you're giving them the reality the

2:11

stuff they probably should be telling

2:13

them at school and then you've

2:15

got all the miserable UK bullshit

2:17

which I totally agree with where

2:19

I'm like yes I understand I

2:21

understand so you've been here 16

2:23

years 19 now 19 wow Yeah,

2:25

yeah. So I mean, look, I

2:27

am a mix of the positive

2:29

and the negative. Like, there's part

2:31

of me that thinks that this

2:33

is the greatest time in history

2:35

to be alive and that this

2:37

is an amazing time to be

2:39

building growing businesses and creating wealth.

2:41

And then there's part of me

2:43

that grumbles that systems aren't working

2:45

for us that we could unleash

2:47

a lot more. And it's not

2:49

because I'm complaining about the UK

2:51

government or any... anything in particular,

2:53

it's because I see the possibility.

2:55

Oh yeah. It's like I see

2:57

what's possible and I see this

2:59

moment that's here and all the

3:01

complaints are like really from a

3:03

space of hey we could be

3:05

great, we could be doing really

3:07

really well. I'm not sitting there

3:09

moaning saying oh there's nothing you

3:11

know there's no hope. I'm actually

3:13

saying let's get the handcuffs off,

3:15

let's get the shackles off, let's

3:17

go for it. Let's actually unleash

3:19

some value here. I completely agree.

3:21

Well, I agree in that I

3:23

am definitely moaning. Yeah. I am

3:25

giving Kiastama, Kiastarsian, Rachel Reeves and

3:27

Angela Ray, and I'm giving them

3:29

a hard time. They probably don't

3:31

know who I am or give

3:33

shit, but I am giving them

3:35

a hard time because I think

3:37

they're absolutely useless. I think the

3:39

previous Conservative Party was pretty useless

3:41

as well. Totally, which is why

3:43

they got voted out. Yeah. We

3:45

chose to punish them by punishing

3:47

them ourselves. Yeah. I mean that

3:49

comes down to the stupidity of

3:51

the stupidity of the stupidity of

3:53

the stupidity of politics. I am

3:55

an optimist and I'm also just,

3:57

I'm an entrepreneur, so I just,

3:59

I just get on with it.

4:01

I didn't vote in the last

4:03

two elections and some people get

4:05

upset by that and I'm like,

4:07

I was just, this is a

4:09

waste of my time, it doesn't

4:11

make... make a difference in my

4:13

life. I just get on with

4:15

it and build businesses. I don't

4:17

have a political team. I'm not

4:19

left, sorry I'm not conservative or

4:21

labor or any particular party in

4:23

particular, I'm pro-entrepreneur. Like all I

4:25

am is, like I'd vote for

4:28

any party that I thought had

4:30

the best policies that would benefit

4:32

entrepreneurs because I think entrepreneurship is

4:34

the best game in town. It's

4:36

the thing that does the most,

4:38

you know, positivity for the economy

4:40

and for individuals as well. So

4:42

I'm, you know, personally, I'm not

4:44

political, I just... you know, vote

4:46

in alignment with what I think

4:48

is best for entrepreneurship. Well, I'm

4:50

similar. I'd say I think more

4:52

just generally about the economy. Yeah,

4:54

you know, so obviously supporting entrepreneurs

4:56

and supporting businesses, but also just

4:58

generally having sensible economic policies. I'm

5:00

a big fan of smaller government.

5:02

Yeah, small government leave, you know,

5:04

leave most things on, let the

5:06

market sort out most things. There's

5:08

a few things that the government

5:10

probably needs to be concerned with,

5:12

and there's a few things that

5:14

only really governments can do properly,

5:16

like defense, you know, military budgets.

5:18

You know, the big ones, to

5:20

create a great economy, you want

5:22

food security, so you want to

5:24

have your own ability to produce

5:26

your own food, so you want

5:28

a thriving farming community. The farmers

5:30

are the first entrepreneurs. They are

5:32

the entrepreneurs that underpin all entrepreneurs.

5:34

You know, we need the farmers

5:36

three times a day. and every

5:38

country... Four or five for me.

5:40

Four or five, yeah, right? Every

5:42

country should have its own thriving

5:44

farming community that produces food, because

5:46

there is a thing called food

5:48

security. If you look at the

5:50

USA, the USA is a very

5:52

secure country because they have a

5:54

high degree of food security. They

5:56

manufacture all their own food, not

5:58

the best food in the world.

6:00

Factory produced skittles are not the

6:02

most healthy thing, but you take

6:04

a country like China. they import

6:06

40% of their calories. If the

6:08

world goes to custard, China's in

6:10

real trouble just from a calories

6:12

perspective. They can go into famine.

6:14

So, you know, governments need to

6:16

take care of farmers. That's one

6:18

of the very first things. Making

6:20

sure that the farmer's happy. Energy.

6:22

There is no such thing as

6:24

an economy that has expensive energy

6:26

and is thriving. Low cost, cheap,

6:28

available energy that just runs. is

6:30

the backbone of industry and you

6:32

know especially where we're going with

6:34

data centers and AI you cannot

6:36

have an AI economy if your

6:38

energy costs are high if you

6:40

look where if you look at

6:42

the USA the USA has one-quarter

6:44

the energy costs per kilowatt as

6:46

the UK the UK is saying

6:48

really yeah it's insane 400% energy

6:50

costs so we we now have

6:52

a situation where to run a

6:54

data center just on the electricity

6:56

is going to cost you four

6:58

times as much. So that is

7:00

the job of government to make

7:02

sure you've got cheap available energy.

7:04

We're not doing that very well.

7:07

Well, I mean, it's such an

7:09

important point as well as every

7:11

business I have has an expensive

7:13

power cost. Yeah. I know people

7:15

who, you know, middle class, low

7:17

middle class people, they've got high

7:19

energy costs. Well, that affects the

7:21

disposable income. Yeah, it's a tax

7:23

on everyone. Yeah. But it's also

7:25

more than that, it is a

7:27

massive tax on industry. So as

7:29

soon as you have high energy

7:31

costs, forget about manufacturing anything, forget

7:33

about transporting things, you know, why

7:35

did the British succeed so well

7:37

the first time around? Because we

7:39

invented, you know, we had coal-powered

7:41

trains, which were a lot faster

7:43

and a lot easier to get

7:45

things from point A to point

7:47

B, because it ran on a

7:49

new type of energy and we

7:51

harnessed it. So... Same thing as

7:53

the British Navy, right? We were

7:55

able to get things around the

7:57

world faster and cheaper than anyone

7:59

else We didn't have any land

8:01

borders to protect so we could

8:03

go all in with the Navy

8:05

And we became a naval superpower

8:07

of our day. So, you know,

8:09

we basically harnessed an energy called

8:11

the wind and got things moving

8:13

around faster and cheaper than anyone

8:15

else. So if you have high

8:17

energy costs, if you, there's a

8:19

graph that I've seen that basically

8:21

says energy costs versus the economic

8:23

value per person, high energy reduces

8:25

economic value per person. So you

8:27

just get rid of the economy

8:29

with high energy. So we're screwing

8:31

that up, we're screwing up food

8:33

security. Border defense, the ability to

8:35

maintain your own borders. you know,

8:37

we can't protect ourselves from dinghies,

8:39

which is pretty pathetic. You know,

8:41

people need to come into a

8:43

country legally. That's obvious. You know,

8:45

that's been conventional wisdom for 10,000

8:47

years. You don't just let random

8:49

people into your country. You know,

8:51

where did this idea come from?

8:53

That people can just cross a

8:55

border. I mean, that used to

8:57

be something you'd get shot for.

8:59

Like, genuinely, for most of human

9:01

history. you could get killed crossing

9:03

a border illegally. And now we're

9:05

like, oh yeah, nothing we can

9:07

do really. You know, even in

9:09

my lifetime growing up in Australia,

9:11

we were extremely strict on border

9:13

control. We used to send the

9:15

Navy out and turn the boats

9:17

around. And we got very much

9:19

criticized for it. You couldn't get

9:21

to Australia illegally. But it's absolutely

9:23

insane that an island has a

9:25

problem with a border. Like we're

9:27

an island. We have a natural

9:29

border. It's called a big C.

9:31

How are we not able to

9:33

protect our own borders? So those

9:35

are some of the basics that

9:37

make a country work. And then

9:39

the individuals inside a country need

9:41

to feel a sense of ambition,

9:44

that they have personal incentives to

9:46

get ahead, that if they work

9:48

hard, they will be rewarded, if

9:50

they work hard, that they'll be

9:52

a payoff, if they innovate, they'll

9:54

be able to get the fruits

9:56

of that. Do you know what's

9:58

crazy? We wrote the book on

10:00

that. Adam Smith wrote the book

10:02

called Wealth of Nations, The Invisible

10:04

Hand of the Market. We invented

10:06

that. We invented the capitalist system.

10:08

We were the ones who like

10:10

literally birthed the system called free

10:12

market capitalism and exported it to

10:14

the world and it was the

10:16

most successful system in the damn

10:18

world. We wrote the book on

10:20

it and we basically say, oh,

10:22

you know, oh, wait a sec.

10:24

There was this guy called Karl

10:26

Marx who hung out in London

10:28

for a little bit. Let's see

10:30

what his book says. No, we

10:32

know that book's crappy book. So,

10:34

you know, we're in this strange

10:36

situation where we are. on paper,

10:38

you know, fundamentally we should be

10:40

so strong, we should have strong

10:42

farms because we have great farming

10:44

land, we should have strong borders

10:46

because we're an island, we should

10:48

have great energy because we have

10:50

the North Sea, you know, we

10:52

should have an ambitious, motivated population,

10:54

you know, and yet we're taxing

10:56

them like communists. Well, every part

10:58

of this is broken. I've literally

11:00

been riding this down. I went

11:02

to the farmer protest. Had Garith

11:04

Wynne Jones on here. I didn't

11:06

know enough about farming. My mom

11:08

grew up on a farm, but

11:10

I didn't really know too much

11:12

about it. I am perfectly aware

11:14

that there's a mischaracterization of farmers

11:16

as being these rich people in

11:18

home lots of land and drive

11:20

range rovers. I know it's hard.

11:22

It's not just that. Their tool

11:24

of the trade is land. Imagine

11:26

a weird scenario where suddenly hairdressing

11:28

scissors are worth a million dollars

11:30

a pair. but they're not, they're

11:32

sitting there going, but I just

11:34

use my hair scissors to cut

11:36

hair, like I'm not using these

11:38

scissors. The reason farmland is theoretically

11:40

worth millions is because of the

11:42

inflated value of property outside of

11:44

farmland. But if your intention is

11:46

not to sell the farmland, if

11:48

your intention is to farm it

11:50

as a service to society, you

11:52

know, then it's just a tool

11:54

of the trade. It's not some

11:56

massive asset that you're sitting on.

11:58

But it's okay to have caveats

12:00

as well in society and in

12:02

rules and taxation, you know, we

12:04

don't tax children, we don't tax

12:06

health. food, we don't tax children's

12:08

clothes. We can have all sorts

12:10

of new ones. We have all

12:12

sorts of systems that allow for

12:14

new ones. Yeah. We used to

12:16

knock tax education. But we're attacking

12:18

the farmers now. We're fundamentally making

12:21

their life harder. We're disincentivizing farming.

12:23

So number one in your list,

12:25

food security, we're attacking energy, as

12:27

you said, we've got the high.

12:29

Look, we all know that. the

12:31

disposable incomes of lower and low

12:33

middle class people have shut down.

12:35

We know the impact that's having

12:37

on businesses and towns. I know

12:39

that the impact on my bar,

12:41

right? Previous year, we were 20%

12:43

up. Yeah, bar doesn't make a

12:45

lot of profit, but it turned

12:47

over 600,000, but it's a good

12:49

little business. 40% down last year.

12:51

because mortgages went up, energy bills

12:53

went up, people went out less.

12:55

So we know that impacts businesses.

12:57

Okay, border security, I mean, I

12:59

could wax a lyrical about that,

13:01

but it's not even just border

13:03

security with dinghies. I mean, I

13:05

don't know what the numbers are,

13:07

kind of, how many are coming

13:09

in legally. The majority of being

13:11

imported legally, and they're bringing in,

13:13

and they're bump up our GDP.

13:16

And then the incentives, I think,

13:18

I think, start in a business, I

13:21

think start in a business now

13:23

and get into the point of a

13:25

profit where you can pay a

13:27

dividend is very, very hard. The hurdle

13:29

rate from borrowing money to paying

13:31

off the loan, the startup costs, I

13:34

mean... Let's forget digital businesses because they're

13:36

all easy. Well, I was about

13:38

to say there's a real distinction because

13:40

in a in a in the

13:42

UK economy, there's a non, it's an

13:45

economy that's not growing is dangerous because

13:47

it's always got a leaky bucket,

13:49

which is interest on debt. So interest

13:51

on debt is just essentially money

13:53

that's coming out of the economy for

13:56

no productive purpose. So if an

13:58

economy is not growing, it is shrinking

14:00

because of the interest payment. Well, actually,

14:02

if it's not grown beyond the

14:04

inflation rate. Inflation rate, and also realistically,

14:07

you know, a business has to

14:09

be growing beyond inflation, but it also,

14:11

if, you know, if you kind of

14:13

do the mathematics on how much

14:15

is the UK debt, one times GDP,

14:18

what are we paying? Five percent,

14:20

you know, four percent, three percent? whatever

14:22

it is, 3 or 4% of

14:24

the economy is actually money that comes

14:26

out of the economy through taxes and

14:29

pays back the bondholders. So it

14:31

is actually a leak in the economy.

14:33

So, you know, you've got to

14:35

stay ahead of inflation and realistically there

14:37

is a shrinking tide. So if the

14:40

economy is not growing, we're in

14:42

real trouble. We are going backwards regardless

14:44

of what they say. Now the

14:46

flip on that is digital businesses. So

14:49

the world... as we know it

14:51

is going through a fundamental shift, right?

14:53

And it's impossible to talk about all

14:55

of these issues without acknowledging that

14:57

there is a massive fundamental change in

15:00

society. So if we zoom out

15:02

300 years, we go to agricultural farming.

15:04

system. So in the farming system

15:06

or in the agricultural age, we had

15:08

a governmental system called feudalism and it

15:11

was kings, lords, dukes, viscounts, and

15:13

it was all about land ownership. Who

15:15

owns the lands? Whoever has the

15:17

vast agricultural lands, that's the wealthiest people

15:19

in the land. And that went on

15:22

for hundreds and hundreds of years,

15:24

undisrupted. Until we had a technological shift

15:26

and the technology was the industrialization.

15:28

that started in Britain, and it was

15:30

in this technology that said we

15:32

can't run society the way that we

15:35

used to. It took decades to hundreds

15:37

of years to change, but we

15:39

actually invented a new system called capitalism,

15:41

and in that capitalism, it didn't

15:43

matter if you're a Duke. It's like,

15:46

oh, I'm a Duke, and I've got

15:48

all this agricultural land in the

15:50

middle of England. Who cares? All about

15:52

having a factory. labor, if you've

15:54

got access to machinery and innovation, you're

15:57

in this industrial class of people

15:59

and now you're rocketing ahead. Now you

16:01

can imagine that there was a difference

16:03

in old money versus new money,

16:05

right? There was a, like you could

16:08

say, oh, the agricultural system is

16:10

dying. Well, the industrial system booming. So

16:12

all of that, we know that that

16:14

happened and we also know that

16:16

it created massive amounts of inequality that

16:19

if you basically stuck with the

16:21

old system. You ended up, you know,

16:23

the Charles Dickens stories about all

16:25

of a twist and all these kids

16:28

that were chimney sweeps and living on

16:30

the streets and all this sort

16:32

of stuff. These were some of the

16:34

like the byproducts of that shift.

16:36

So what happened 20 years ago is

16:39

we created the digital system and

16:41

we invented completely new rules of the

16:43

economy. We invented products that can scale

16:45

to billions of users effortlessly overnight

16:47

if they want to. We invented, we

16:50

invented completely new business models where

16:52

most people get access for free, small

16:54

few people pay subscriptions. We invented business

16:56

models like where Google does, where

16:58

they give away Google Maps, and then

17:01

they monetize through a little bit

17:03

of advertising. We invented businesses that don't

17:05

really require any geographical connection in

17:07

order to be a customer. So, you

17:09

know, you can have customers anywhere in

17:12

the world. and they can be

17:14

happy customers, I can have employees everywhere

17:16

in the world. So if we

17:18

take these digital businesses that have employees

17:20

everywhere in the world, they have customers

17:23

everywhere in the world, they can

17:25

innovate something once and then sell it

17:27

a billion times, they're operating in

17:29

a very different paradigm to the pub.

17:31

Absolutely, right? But we need both,

17:33

we still need the pub. Yes, however,

17:36

if you imagine Marathon, and we're running

17:38

all in a marathon race, and

17:40

then a few of the marathon runners

17:42

get access to bicycles, and then

17:44

one person gets access to a car,

17:47

then you're going to have a massive

17:49

amount of inequality between the bicycles

17:51

and the cars versus the runners. So

17:54

you can't get out of that.

17:56

You can't say, oh, wait a second,

17:58

why are some of these people

18:00

doing incredibly well? Because they're playing a

18:02

very different game. But not everyone needs

18:05

to do incredibly well. There are

18:07

some people who just want to build

18:09

a local business. They want a

18:11

cafe or a florist. They want to

18:13

do something in their town center.

18:15

I mean, the death of the town

18:18

center to me is a sign that

18:20

the economy itself is working for

18:22

local businesses. our town centre, the shift

18:24

has been quite dramatic to the

18:26

high street is now charity shops because

18:29

they don't have to pay business rates.

18:31

Yeah, barber shops, yeah, economic barber

18:33

shops, fine, people need their hair cut.

18:35

We have, yeah, we have betting

18:37

shops, we have a many-vape screen smash

18:40

repair. Yeah, and we know a

18:42

lot of these fronts for lawn and

18:44

money and then a lot of places

18:46

that are just closed down. Yeah.

18:48

But that's not surprising. Given this, continue

18:51

with this digital versus analog, the

18:53

reason the High Street worked was it

18:55

was a distribution model for products and

18:57

services. But that distribution model has

18:59

been massively surpassed by digital. So it's

19:02

not because that one, that particular

19:04

issue is not necessarily because of taxes

19:06

or any of that sort of

19:08

stuff, or it's because. That person sits

19:10

at home ordering on Amazon and having

19:13

something delivered to their door nine

19:15

times out of ten now. They don't

19:17

wander down to the town center

19:19

and buy the things that they would

19:22

have bought on Amazon. Sure, I just

19:24

think there's still things people, people

19:26

want a cafe, they want a cup

19:28

of coffee, they want a sandwich,

19:30

they want to go out and do

19:33

things, and some of them have

19:35

been, there's this really good book that

19:37

covers, the strategy of companies like Starbucks

19:39

and subway where they will open.

19:41

kind of equilibrium. But there is a

19:44

hurdle rate still of creating these

19:46

businesses. with you on the move to

19:48

the digital economy, there are still people

19:50

who want to build local businesses

19:52

and just the hurdle rates too hard.

19:55

Sure. I might want to build

19:57

a factory producing scissors like it's 1845.

19:59

It doesn't mean that I can

20:01

be successful at that. I hate to

20:03

say it, but just because you want

20:06

to build a quaint little cafe,

20:08

you're in competition with Starbucks. But not

20:10

only that, you're in competition with

20:12

people on their phone. you know people

20:14

used to go to a cafe

20:16

for a bit of entertainment with a

20:19

friend now they just facetime their friend

20:21

or they'll just sit there scrolling

20:23

tic-toc videos as opposed to you know

20:25

now they or they used to

20:27

go for quick coffee and then head

20:30

off and they're only there for 15

20:32

minutes now they'll sit there for

20:34

45 minutes occupying a table for three

20:36

pounds 50 because they're sitting there

20:38

glued to their phone. You know, so

20:41

all of these factors count. We

20:43

are going through this massive, this is

20:45

not a small shift, this is a

20:47

massive fundamental shift. We're going from

20:49

local to global. All businesses now have

20:52

global, you're either hyper local. or

20:54

you're global. And even smart businesses that

20:56

used to be hyper-local, they start thinking

20:59

about global. You know, they build

21:01

products that can scale, they build things

21:03

they can ship. You know, little

21:05

butcher down the road from me, he's

21:07

creating dried, what's it called, jerky,

21:09

you know, sending it out in the

21:12

post, sending it to customers all over.

21:14

So, you know, he's got the

21:16

Instagram account, all of that sort of

21:18

stuff. So... you know we are

21:20

going this fundamental big shift is happening

21:23

globally and it's driving all these other

21:25

trends as well the other thing

21:27

that is happening you know we talk

21:29

about immigration is that uh... fifteen

21:31

years ago only thirty percent of the

21:34

world had fast internet access the

21:36

ability to quickly download a photo or

21:38

a video was in the hands of

21:40

thirty percent of people who mostly

21:42

lived in developed uh... countries fast forward

21:45

to today it's over seventy percent

21:47

of the world's population have access to

21:49

fast internet on a mobile phone,

21:51

on a smartphone, on a smartphone. So

21:53

what's happening is all over the world,

21:56

people are looking at Instagram, saying,

21:58

oh, I wouldn't mind living in Mayfair.

22:00

Oh, I wouldn't mind, like, have

22:02

you been to Venice lately? You can't

22:04

walk around Venice, because some influencer turns

22:07

up in Venice and says, oh,

22:09

it's the most beautiful romantic city, and

22:11

they pump that out to their

22:13

12 million followers, and suddenly, all of

22:15

a sudden all these idiots turn

22:17

up in Venice from all over the

22:20

world. This rejection of tourism as well,

22:22

which I think finds super interesting.

22:24

I don't know if you've been following

22:27

what's happening in Spain, but there's

22:29

been lots of protests in certain places,

22:31

I think it's like Tenerife, but they're

22:33

putting it 100% tax now on

22:35

foreigners buying properties in these locations because

22:38

I think it's part of the

22:40

Airbnb economy, which is, you know, and

22:42

the fact that you can't really

22:44

save money in the bank, the people

22:46

are just buying properties and assets and

22:49

able to monetize them, but there's

22:51

a... huge protection of tourism in large

22:53

parts of Spain now, which used

22:55

to be the lifeblood of their economy.

22:57

Yeah, well they believe that tourism used

23:00

to be that you were from

23:02

somewhere else visiting this particular place and

23:04

experiencing their culture. Now what digital

23:06

has done is removed, like imagine a

23:08

bathtub that's like sectioned up into

23:10

five sections all with different colored waters

23:13

and you just pull the dividers out

23:15

and it all just goes boom.

23:17

I grew up in Australia. It was

23:19

absolutely, you would have had to

23:21

be seriously rich to holiday in Spain.

23:24

Like most Australians would never have

23:26

been to Spain. Spain was on the

23:28

other side of the earth, there was

23:30

very little chance. Fast forward to

23:32

today. You know, if you haven't been

23:35

to Spain by 25, you haven't

23:37

lived, man, you know, Yolo, get out

23:39

there, go to Spain. You know, most

23:41

Australians are now roaming around the

23:43

world, ticking off their bucket list of

23:46

locations, but that's everyone and everywhere.

23:48

So we're now, you know, Ibitha used

23:50

to be a cool little party

23:52

island that very few people knew about.

23:55

And now everyone in the EDM, dancing,

23:57

global... is like, oh, we've got

23:59

to do a pilgrimage to Ibitha, and

24:01

then if you go to Ibitha,

24:03

it's crazy. So it's completely lost its

24:06

local original feel. So I can understand

24:08

this difference between we have something

24:10

special and you can come and visit

24:12

it, versus this has now become,

24:14

you know, we can't even influence our

24:17

own town because all of you

24:19

people come here nonstop. I think also

24:21

we used to, you know, you used

24:23

to go to Spain and you

24:25

would stay in the hotel or eat

24:28

in the restaurants and you would

24:30

leave that money in that economy. But

24:32

if people from the UK are buying

24:34

properties in Spain and it'd be

24:36

out. You know, it stays in the

24:39

property economy. Yeah, so the money's.

24:41

going out there and coming straight back.

24:43

And it's made property too expensive

24:45

for local people. A massive issue in

24:47

the world at the moment is just

24:50

purely simply our psychology, the very

24:52

base part of our brain, wants a

24:54

place to live to call our

24:56

own and most people can't afford a

24:58

house anymore. Can't afford a house that

25:01

they want to invite their friends

25:03

over to. A lot of people can

25:05

maybe have a share accommodation or

25:07

they can buy a small flat. But

25:09

how many people... can have a

25:11

house where they can raise a family

25:14

and invite friends around. Well this massive

25:16

growth in these HMOs, which obviously

25:18

has been a great business opportunity for

25:20

probably people, I think it has

25:22

been a really bad signal in the

25:25

decline of society. Yeah. Somebody with

25:27

a job and an income, used to

25:29

be able to afford a home. Yeah,

25:32

they can afford a bedroom with

25:34

a shared kitchen. Yeah, with a shared

25:36

kitchen. We're forced in adults that

25:38

have like students. Yeah. And it's just

25:40

a mass... to me, it's a huge

25:43

signal of decline. It's horrible. It's

25:45

horrible. It's horrible. Yeah, and it's, it's,

25:47

you know, we've, we've debased money

25:49

to the extent that, you know, people

25:51

have rushed to assets and, you

25:53

know, smart people who owned assets in

25:56

the beginning. Those assets have massively inflated.

25:58

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which is ex-a-p-o-b-a-n-k.com for slash W-w-b-d. We've

28:10

been looking for Connor. he wants

28:12

to get a property, it's just unachievable.

28:14

Look, my dad lent me 10

28:16

grand a buy house, 5 grand for

28:19

a deposit and 5 grand for

28:21

the furniture, right? And I paid him

28:23

back, I think, within two years, and

28:25

it was a hundred thousand pound

28:28

property. That property was 20 years, I

28:30

know, that property was 20 years

28:32

ago, I know now that probably cost

28:34

250,000, wages haven't increased by that

28:36

much. And that hurt all right, he

28:39

came for kids to get in there,

28:41

the cost of electricity, gas. I

28:43

mean, I think if you're under 40,000

28:45

pound a year in a lot

28:47

of towns, not all towns, it's going

28:50

to be very, very hard to get

28:52

on the ladder. But there's people

28:54

here in London who are only six

28:56

figures, they can't get on the

28:58

property. There's people here in London, I

29:01

know, on six figures, they're in

29:03

shared accommodation. And the only way you

29:05

can is if both of you work,

29:07

so it used to require 52

29:09

paychecks. 52 weeks of work, now it's

29:12

104 weeks of work, so you

29:14

have to have two of you, and

29:16

then you can't have kids. Or you

29:18

can't raise your kids. Or you

29:20

go through that really difficult three-year spell

29:23

where you had a kid, and

29:25

then you're moving them into a crash,

29:27

but the crash is eaten up

29:29

all your wage. I mean, the whole...

29:31

So here's the only thing, though. The

29:34

only thing is, for most of

29:36

human civilization, life is shit, life is

29:38

hard, right, right? So we're winging,

29:40

but... There was only really the post-war

29:42

era that had it so good. And

29:45

what happened is that we had

29:47

the industrialization period, call it the 1800s,

29:49

and then we had two massive

29:51

wars, and then there was a period

29:53

where we got the fruits of

29:55

industrialization without the wars, and we had

29:58

a good 50 years of... post-war,

30:00

highly industrialized society

30:02

where everyone during that period

30:04

got cheap houses and got to,

30:07

you know, there wasn't enough workers and

30:09

all that sort of stuff, but it's

30:11

worth remembering. that this is not

30:13

our God-given right to have a

30:15

good life. For thousands of years,

30:18

life is shit. Life is really

30:20

terrible, really hard for most people.

30:22

For most of human civilization, the

30:24

business model of human civilization is

30:26

one or two percent of people

30:29

are kings queens lords, you know,

30:31

king queen Jack. There are a few of

30:33

people who are the professional class who

30:35

serve those people, and then the

30:37

vast majority falls off a cliff

30:39

and work in serfdom. And that's

30:42

the business model of humans

30:44

for most of human civilization.

30:46

So unless, like, we've got

30:48

to remember that it's on

30:50

us to make the most of

30:53

the times we're in. Our great-great-great-great-grandparents

30:58

and on and on and on would

31:00

change places in a heartbeat and say,

31:02

get out of the way you wimp.

31:04

Right I'm gonna well we have we

31:06

are breeding we are breeding wimps. We

31:08

are we are training wimps Yeah as

31:10

soon as you go past your your

31:12

grandfather or maybe great. Well as soon

31:14

as you go back a couple of

31:16

generations They would look at us and

31:18

just roll their eyes and say are

31:20

you kidding me? You've got all this

31:22

superpowers and you're not making the most

31:24

of the times you're in. So keep

31:26

in mind personal responsibilities everything that you

31:28

can't just keep saying oh it should

31:31

be easier and it should be better.

31:33

I think where I'm going with this

31:35

is not that it should be easier.

31:37

I just don't want government to make

31:39

it harder. I don't want government for

31:41

no benefit at all to make the

31:43

life of everyone harder. I don't want

31:45

crony capitalism, I don't want the corruption

31:48

that we saw in the financial crisis.

31:50

Because the other thing is this kind

31:52

of financialization of everything has really just

31:54

squeezed more money to those who can

31:56

financialize everything. Well, I have a different

31:59

take. Okay, shoot. The different take I

32:01

have is technologies playing a bigger role

32:03

than we let on. And it goes

32:05

back to this running a marathon versus,

32:08

you know, running a marathon analogy. If

32:10

some people leverage technology, call it a

32:12

bicycle, then they are going to get

32:14

ahead way faster and they are going

32:17

to be able to do it effortlessly.

32:19

The people running a marathon on their

32:21

feet... are going to sit there exhausted

32:24

from how hard they're running and look

32:26

at the guy on the bike and

32:28

go, you're not even breaking a sweat

32:30

and you're way ahead of us. And

32:33

then if there's a car involved, they're

32:35

going to say, how the hell are

32:37

you even doing that? So I think,

32:39

like, the truth is, my life's amazing,

32:42

right? I can go anywhere I like,

32:44

buy anything I want, I can live

32:46

in my dream home, only one person

32:49

has to work, like, you know my

32:51

wife does property, but... not like she

32:53

doesn't work in a corporate or any

32:55

of that sort of stuff. So I'm

32:58

living the dream. The reason I'm living

33:00

the dream is I'm living in a

33:02

technologically enabled world. I'm running tech businesses.

33:04

So I have said, in my life,

33:07

I've said, the industrial revolution is over.

33:09

The industrial system is over. If I

33:11

try and do anything that integrates with

33:13

that system, which the government is part

33:16

of, then it's going to feel like

33:18

it's 50 years out of date. If

33:20

I do everything online. and if I

33:23

build a business online, I can live

33:25

and work from anywhere. If I don't

33:27

like it, I can easily move, I

33:29

pick up my phone and leave. I

33:32

mean, quite literally, I could literally just

33:34

get on a plane with my family

33:36

and we would just still be in

33:38

business when we arrive and everything would

33:41

be fine. If I've provided I've got

33:43

access to the internet, I'm completely fine.

33:45

I can travel around the world with

33:48

a laptop bag and that would be

33:50

it. So the key thing here is

33:52

that the government's not making our lives

33:54

harder. The dying industrial system is a

33:57

big old dinosaur that's coming to an

33:59

end and the super fast technological system

34:01

is overtaking. in doing really, really well.

34:03

And the reason people are doing it

34:06

tough is they want to do things

34:08

the way they were trying to do

34:10

it in school, because school prepared them

34:13

for a world called the industrial age,

34:15

and we're now living in a digital

34:17

age. And we're in a cross-ordered point.

34:19

We haven't caught up. Some people haven't

34:22

caught up. Some people are in the

34:24

car already. So the car, in this

34:26

metaphor, the car represents, you've got a

34:28

business that is AI enabled, you've got

34:31

a cloud-based, sass-based, So if you've got

34:33

a software as a service business with

34:35

AI running a whole bunch of stuff,

34:38

you've got a small 30, 40 person

34:40

team, multi-million revenue, high margins, and it

34:42

all runs in the cloud, and AI

34:44

does half the shit, you are in

34:47

the car. The bicycle represents your on

34:49

social media, you're a content-created, not a

34:51

content consumer, you collect an email database,

34:53

you've got, you can... harvest data, you've

34:56

got a scalable product that you can

34:58

deliver online, whether it be your services

35:00

coaching over Zoom or something like that,

35:03

or actually something that people can download

35:05

or something you can put in the

35:07

mail and ship it, you're on the

35:09

bicycle. And running is all the businesses

35:12

that anyone from the industrial age would

35:14

understand. If my grandfather could understand your

35:16

business by just looking at it, then

35:18

unfortunately you're going to be doing it

35:21

tough. Okay, I guess within that there's

35:23

an acceptance there are people who want

35:25

to be in the car. There are

35:27

people who just naturally want to be

35:30

an entrepreneur. They have an ambition, whether

35:32

it's success or financial success, and there

35:34

are some people who are happy to

35:37

be a passenger in that car. And

35:39

there are some people who just want

35:41

to run. We will have a mixed

35:43

economy. You're talking to the people. with

35:46

the ambition, the entrepreneurs, the ones who

35:48

might want to do it, or you

35:50

might be able to inspire to do

35:52

it. Well, I'm kind of just trying

35:55

to... Because it can't be everybody. I'm

35:57

just trying to make it clear. This

35:59

is what's going on. I'm not saying

36:02

it's right or wrong. I'm saying this

36:04

is just what is. This is the

36:06

reality. This is the reality of it.

36:08

It's not some giant conspiracy. Technology has

36:11

just moved the game and the goalposts.

36:13

And if you're playing an old game.

36:15

playing an old game. The reason that

36:17

we don't feel comfortable with it is

36:20

because we all went through a schooling

36:22

system that was built from the 1800s

36:24

to teach us how to be factory

36:27

workers. And no man, obviously sometimes I

36:29

would say probably, no certainly my son

36:31

has learned more, you should answer for

36:33

himself in three months working than I

36:36

did ever in school. Three months working.

36:38

Yeah. And I did a year at

36:40

union. Yeah, why would you say that

36:42

is? What's the difference? It's just real

36:45

world application. I remember one time in

36:47

math class we were doing the trigonometry

36:49

and I even went to my math

36:52

teacher. I was like, sir, when am

36:54

I ever going to use this in

36:56

my life? Like I'm not. Yeah, sure.

36:58

And we will need engineers and such.

37:01

Yeah, and also, look, footballers do push-ups

37:03

and sit-ups, which they'll never use in

37:05

a game, but it strengthens them, right?

37:07

So it actually, it's an exercise that

37:10

helps you to expand your intelligence. But

37:12

with that said, the whole system... is

37:14

built to create a world that doesn't

37:16

really exist terribly much. The reason that

37:19

you're learning so much in this environment

37:21

is we're creating digital assets, we're scaling

37:23

digital assets, we're communicating to a global

37:26

audience, we've got a product or service

37:28

that can monetize online. So you're actually

37:30

in a very, very different environment. If

37:32

someone came to me and said, oh

37:35

look, I really just want to work

37:37

in a sewing factory, they don't exist

37:39

anymore, right? in a globalized world they

37:41

you know they're not here in the

37:44

UK so if someone said I really

37:46

you know I really want to be

37:48

a tailor unfortunately that that game is

37:51

out you know or I really want

37:53

to be a horse buggy you know

37:55

horse saddle maker okay but there's only

37:57

like a very small number of saddles

38:00

that need making every day so the

38:02

the real thing is that if you

38:04

want to If you want to really

38:06

interrogate why things have changed, or one

38:09

of the biggest reasons things have changed,

38:11

it's geography versus non-geography operating system. So

38:13

geographically operating system means that your business,

38:16

95% of your clients are within a

38:18

five to 10 mile radius. That would

38:20

be a geography-based business. An internet business,

38:22

95% of your clients are not within

38:25

a 10 mile radius. Probably high, right?

38:27

Probably, yeah, most of them. It's an

38:29

accident if they are. When we look

38:31

at governments, what's the first word in

38:34

the government? The geography, right? So it's

38:36

the British government. And that British means

38:38

the British island, the island of Britain,

38:41

Britannia. You know, it's the London City

38:43

Council, the geography. It's the United States

38:45

government. geography. So the whole game of

38:47

government is geographical borders. So geography is

38:50

their big, that's their big thing. Whereas

38:52

the digital economy doesn't even respect geography

38:54

at all, doesn't care about geography. Geography

38:56

is a non-event, once you're in a

38:59

digital business. You know, half my team

39:01

are all over the world and I

39:03

don't even know where they are. I

39:06

own companies that I've never physically been

39:08

to. So I own a couple of

39:10

companies and I've never set foot in

39:12

the office. Amazing. You know, so the

39:15

government's playing a game by definition that

39:17

they can't win. Yeah, I mean, look,

39:19

there's certain things that haven't caught up.

39:21

And it's most of the stuff around

39:24

government, to be honest. But if I

39:26

was to ask you, I mean, I've

39:28

got two kids, one here, one still

39:30

at school, yeah, if I asked my

39:33

daughter at the end of the day,

39:35

what did you do at school today?

39:37

It will start with, yes, we had

39:40

math, double physics, biology, religious education, it's...

39:42

Blocks of 40 minutes. Yeah. Learning the

39:44

stuff they did. Yeah. Very rarely. I

39:46

think even less than I was there.

39:49

You know, there's no real. We used

39:51

to have this class. I joined that

39:53

was like after school and it was

39:55

we it was called young entrepreneurs with

39:58

great little business I don't even know

40:00

if those things exist anymore it is

40:02

sport and it's compartmentalize yeah the economics

40:05

was only available or business studies for

40:07

the final two years and so it

40:09

doesn't really exist and I know if

40:11

I said to you right now you're

40:14

going to be running a school tomorrow

40:16

but you could write the curriculum. I

40:18

know what you're going to, I know

40:20

because I know you're similar to, I

40:23

know you're going to write an entirely

40:25

different curriculum. An entirely different approach. Yeah.

40:27

So like for example. You're going to

40:30

produce, sorry to interrupt, you're going to

40:32

produce for this digital age where previously

40:34

we're producing for the Victorian industrial age.

40:36

Yeah. So a key differentiator would be

40:39

that in the Victorian industrial age, we

40:41

want you to be component labour. And

40:43

component labor basically means you're a cog

40:45

in a machine and you can fit

40:48

in any machine. So if I take

40:50

you, I say, oh, we're going to

40:52

turn you into a lawyer. And as

40:55

a lawyer, you'll be able to fit

40:57

into this law firm, this law firm,

40:59

this law firm, this law firm, or

41:01

into this factory that needs a lawyer,

41:04

or into this distribution center that needs

41:06

a lawyer, but you're a lawyer-shaped cog

41:08

and you can fit into any of

41:10

those machines. And that's component labor. They're

41:13

attention seekers, they're disruptors, they don't really

41:15

fit. You ask them, oh, you know,

41:17

what do you do? Well, I do

41:20

a bunch of stuff. I do, I

41:22

have a football club and a pub

41:24

and a podcast, right? And it's like,

41:26

right? And it's like, oh, you're a

41:29

weird shaped cog. There's not a lot

41:31

of people I meet like you. Doesn't

41:33

make sense. and that's actually what we

41:35

need to train people to be. So

41:38

the schooling system has to say what

41:40

we're not, we're no longer trying to

41:42

create, we're trying to create completely unique

41:44

individuals. So you might say to a

41:47

child, you know, what are you interested

41:49

in? They're like, I'm really interested in

41:51

concord. The plane, yeah, I'm really interested

41:54

in that. Okay, great. So what I

41:56

want to do is we want to

41:58

actually see what would it take to

42:00

get Concord flying again, we want to

42:03

say what would it cost, how much

42:05

was it, where are the current concords,

42:07

how many of them are there, how

42:09

much fuel did Concord require in order

42:12

to fly, blah blah blah, let's come

42:14

up with a whole bunch of things.

42:16

Now inside of all of that you're

42:19

going to have geography, maths, English, you're

42:21

going to have all these different disciplines,

42:23

but what they're actually doing is there.

42:25

running deep on a passion, they're running

42:28

deep on something, and they're coming out

42:30

with knowledge, they're coming out with wisdom.

42:32

You know, in the process of learning

42:34

about Concord, you're going to learn about

42:37

France, you're going to learn about England,

42:39

you're going to learn about the USA,

42:41

you're going to learn about how much

42:44

distance there is between New York and

42:46

London. So all of these things you'll

42:48

learn. That's what is problem solving? Problem

42:50

solving? There's actually a school in... Richrose,

42:53

yeah, yeah, I think it's run by

42:55

James' I'll, you might want to fact

42:57

check that column. It's in Los Angeles.

42:59

Home schooling is becoming very big. Well,

43:02

this isn't home schooling. So this, I

43:04

can't, yeah, I'm going to try and

43:06

remember the details, but as far as

43:09

I'm aware, per term a kid picks

43:11

a subject. And it could be anything.

43:13

You can say Italian cooking. France. A

43:15

Roman Empire. and you spend your entire

43:18

semester, your entire term, studying that subject,

43:20

and that subject only. I don't know

43:22

how they guide them, what the output

43:24

is at the end, but, because we

43:27

don't, you know, when you have kids,

43:29

you can try and influence them. I

43:31

tried to influence my son into my

43:33

music, he doesn't like my music for

43:36

shit. For some reason, he likes drill,

43:38

and I like heavy metal. I tried

43:40

to do the same with daughter, she

43:43

likes some of my music. But she

43:45

likes other stuff. Yeah. And you know,

43:47

I dress a certain way. Look, they

43:49

have thoughts and ideas, which I influence

43:52

on them. They have thoughts and ideas

43:54

in terms of political ideas, because I

43:56

get to... But taste. it's hard to

43:58

influence too much. And so whilst I

44:01

wanted to write a football club and

44:03

now have a podcast, Connor might want

44:05

to be an artist. Yeah. Or Scarlet

44:08

might want to do something else. And

44:10

the great thing about this school is

44:12

you take these kids in. I like

44:14

this. Let's foster that. It's called Muse

44:17

Global. What does it say about it?

44:19

Is there anything any details on it?

44:22

Music globe is in an internationally

44:24

recognized warming school, high performance learning

44:26

lab that focuses on eco literacy

44:29

and serves as a beacon of

44:31

sustainable living. Yeah, but that's all

44:33

they're vegan and they have like

44:35

a little. I like high performance

44:38

learning lab. Yeah, yeah. You see,

44:40

go on it. One of the

44:42

things that's wild is that with

44:44

AI, you can train AI, to

44:46

have ongoing conversations with a learner

44:49

and they can run down that

44:51

rabbit hole. So. Let's say you

44:53

pick Italian cooking, you can have

44:55

an AI that basically talks all

44:57

day about Italian cooking and then

45:00

also asks the question, like how

45:02

much olive oil that goes into

45:04

this recipe? And if I've only

45:06

got a 30 mil measuring cup

45:09

and a 5 mil, what would

45:11

be the fastest and best way

45:13

to get, you know, 25 mil?

45:15

Yeah, go back to the toxic,

45:17

God, I just want to read

45:20

what it says. Right. Nice environment.

45:22

Located, yeah it's beautiful and they,

45:24

I think it's vegan and I

45:26

think, you know, which I don't

45:29

entirely agree with, but, and they

45:31

also have, they tend to the

45:33

land, I think they grow crops

45:35

and things, but located in Calabasasas

45:37

California, Muse Global is a innovative,

45:40

holistic private school offering, in-person education

45:42

for preschool, blah blah, blah. the

45:44

whole child by going beyond academics,

45:46

connected with students by teaching communication,

45:49

self-efficacy and sustainability through passion-based passion,

45:51

that's it, passion-based learning. Keep, keep

45:53

scrolling down. Keep going, keep going,

45:55

keep going, keep going. Yeah, passion-based.

45:57

See the kid there with the

46:00

guitar? I mean, look, the idea

46:02

is beautiful, but unfortunately it's private.

46:04

It's probably cost of absolute fortune

46:06

and it's for the Hollywood elite.

46:09

Yeah, more and more people are

46:11

homeschooling. Yeah, because if you homeschool,

46:13

you can travel when you want

46:15

to travel, you can go and

46:17

stay in an Airbnb for six

46:20

months. People with digital businesses, it's

46:22

become very, very common to find

46:24

homeschooling communities. I've tried out a

46:26

few of the online education. AI

46:28

tutors, it's scarily good, like scary

46:31

good. I mean you can just

46:33

literally talk to a computer all

46:35

day and it will guide you

46:37

through learning. AI is scary like

46:40

that. I do this driving. Got

46:42

to laugh about it. I'll be

46:44

driving along and I'll put on

46:46

my phone. I'll be like, tell

46:48

me about the fall of the

46:51

Roman Empire. How does that

46:53

compare to what's happening today? We

46:55

just have this ongoing conversation. It's

46:57

wild. Yeah, I did the same.

46:59

You know, Donald Trump just mentioned,

47:01

he liked President William McKinley, and

47:03

I just asked AI, what are

47:05

the similarities between McKinley and Trump?

47:07

And it gave me a list

47:09

of like seven things that the

47:11

two of them have in common.

47:13

The weirdest thing with AI recently

47:15

is, I would say when I

47:17

first started playing with... AI and

47:19

ChatGPT probably a year and a

47:21

half, two years ago, it was

47:24

like question answer. I now know,

47:26

I can see it's linking from

47:28

previous things I've asked it and

47:30

it's starting to get to know

47:32

me. So I'll ask it certain

47:34

things where I'm not mentioning in

47:36

other parts and it'll bring into

47:38

things that I've talked about it

47:40

previously. You can directly ask it

47:42

based on what you know about

47:44

me. What do you think of

47:46

my biggest shortcomings? And it will

47:48

tell you. Yeah. Yeah. JetGPT has

47:50

died at the time we need

47:52

it. We're going to come back

47:54

to that. Yeah. I mean, how

47:56

much, when you talk about this,

47:58

yeah, we went from agriculture to

48:00

industrialization to digital. Do you consider

48:02

AI just part of the digital

48:04

or do you consider this almost

48:06

separate thing? Well, the Industrial Revolution

48:08

went through a few iterations. So

48:10

we had like coal-based heating and

48:12

pumps and then we generated electricity

48:14

and then we generated, you know,

48:16

compute power. So there was these

48:18

iterations. What I think with... done

48:20

as we think we're advanced technology

48:23

now, but actually the last 20-25

48:25

years was just kind of laying

48:27

the basic railroad tracks of the

48:29

digital age. Interesting. And actually we're

48:31

about to go into a very

48:33

big shift. I mean, consider that

48:35

in three years time, AI will

48:37

be smarter than all humans at

48:39

all things. There will be nothing

48:41

that... you would hire a human

48:43

to do versus an AI if

48:45

you could. You might have a

48:47

few humans directing AI, you might

48:49

have a few humans overseeing stuff,

48:51

but there will be no such

48:53

thing as a lawyer that is

48:55

better than a chat GPT lawyer.

48:57

There'll be no such thing as

48:59

a doctor that's better at diagnosing

49:01

than an AI. I wonder what

49:03

that actually means. Does it still

49:05

mean we have lawyers arguing or

49:07

we just have a judge AI

49:09

that just knows the outcome? Yeah,

49:11

could have humans in the loop

49:13

making like confirming that everything ran

49:15

smoothly that the AI received all

49:17

the information like a prompt judge

49:19

or something like that a judge

49:22

who judged the prompts You know

49:24

the The the the super smart

49:26

AI will theoretically just ask for

49:28

a lot of information ask a

49:30

bunch of questions and you know,

49:32

it'll come back to you with

49:34

you know with you know with

49:36

judgment, but but I think If

49:38

you were to have two people

49:40

who were doing a deal, you

49:42

would just have AI running in

49:44

the background and at the end

49:46

of the conversation it would just

49:48

have a heads of terms that

49:50

was automatically... created based on what

49:52

was discussed and then you'd ask

49:54

it for edits and contracts to

49:56

be produced and then ask it

49:58

for a to do list of

50:00

what do we need to do

50:02

in order to get the deal

50:04

done and then you'd say to

50:06

an agent can you update company's

50:08

house that that's all gone ahead

50:10

that we're you know that we're

50:12

making that transaction happen. So what

50:14

happens to us? Yeah it's a

50:16

different paradigm so there's a negative

50:18

paradigm and there's a positive paradigm

50:20

so the negative paradigm is... Consider

50:23

this, right? This is pretty far

50:25

out. But if you think about

50:27

the agricultural age, almost all the

50:29

value in society was created by

50:31

artificial intelligence. Actually, not artificial intelligence,

50:33

natural intelligence. Natural intelligence means you

50:35

put a seed in the ground

50:37

and then you don't know how

50:39

it happens, but it magically grows

50:41

into a tree and that magically

50:43

produces apples and then you pick

50:45

the apples and you have food.

50:47

So we called that god. And

50:49

what did humans do? plant seeds

50:51

and pick fruit, right? And we

50:53

kind of just waited for nature

50:55

and God to do its thing

50:57

and we lived around natural intelligence

50:59

all the time, but we didn't

51:01

have much. We assumed that we

51:03

were dumb in relationship to God.

51:05

So we basically entertained ourselves with

51:07

other things while God was doing

51:09

what it was doing, right? We

51:11

knew that we couldn't speed up

51:13

the process of growing apples. It

51:15

was going to take however long

51:17

it took. But essentially, imagine soil

51:19

is artificial intelligence and that essentially

51:22

it's the magical thing that produces

51:24

all the things. and we just

51:26

have to put little prompts in

51:28

called seeds and then wait until

51:30

it comes up with the answer.

51:32

So it is AI, interesting. Right,

51:34

so in that scenario, the downside

51:36

is that a few people owned

51:38

all the soil and they were

51:40

the King's Queen's Lord's Dukes and

51:42

then everyone else was just a

51:44

surf passing time and hoping that

51:46

the King's Queen's Lord's Dukes would

51:48

give them enough to survive from

51:50

the soil. that would come from

51:52

it. So subsistence living came out.

51:54

So essentially you had the AI,

51:56

so in the digital feudal system.

51:58

the neofutal system, you will have

52:00

a group of people who own

52:02

the AI continents, the digital soil,

52:04

and those people will have vast,

52:06

vast, vast wealth like Louis V

52:08

or whatever, and then the rest

52:10

of us will just... basically enjoy

52:12

enough to subsistence. Now, what does

52:14

subsistence look like? Well, it means

52:16

all the food medicine knowledge that

52:18

you could possibly want. It means

52:21

all the games that you could

52:23

entertain yourself with, because all of

52:25

that comes out of the soil,

52:27

the digital soil. So... Bread and

52:29

circus. Yeah, so you end up

52:31

with a scenario where, you know,

52:33

by the way, this is not

52:35

unfamiliar. This is 10,000 years of

52:37

civilization other than when we created

52:39

a middle class. But the vast

52:41

majority of people own nothing and

52:43

a tiny number of people own

52:45

everything. That's kind of how that

52:47

potentially worked. Another scenario. This is

52:49

the positive or the negative one?

52:51

That's the negative one. Okay. Yeah,

52:53

the positive one. Why would you

52:55

say that's negative? Because there is

52:57

an idea within that that, you

52:59

know, I'm pretty sure. back in

53:01

the time when the agriculture era,

53:03

it was enough food that could

53:05

be produced for everybody. But with

53:07

this kind of hyper-industrialization off the

53:09

back of the wealth of AI,

53:11

we could have an abundance of

53:13

food. And if we crack this...

53:15

We'd have an abundance of everything.

53:17

Yeah, if we have an abundance...

53:19

Robots would grow all the food

53:22

and Michein Star chefs would prepare

53:24

it. Robot chefs would be Michein-style

53:26

level chefs. Every meal you ate

53:28

would be one of the best

53:30

meals you've ever eaten. all the

53:32

entertainment would be customized to you.

53:34

So for example, if you wanted

53:36

to see episodes of The Simpsons

53:38

featuring you, your friends, and your

53:40

life, that could easily be created.

53:42

If you wanted to have 10

53:44

episodes, if you really enjoyed a

53:46

Netflix show and you wish it

53:48

didn't end and you said, actually,

53:50

can I just get 10 more

53:52

episodes of that? He could just

53:54

write it and produce it. So

53:56

we have an abundance of everything.

53:58

Everything. Everything. need is fulfilled. Yeah.

54:00

That's negative because... It's negative to

54:02

our brain that says we have

54:04

to own a house and own

54:06

a thing and have a job.

54:08

If you imagine there was a

54:10

time, if there was a time

54:12

where the farming went really well

54:14

and the land was producing enough

54:16

for everybody, then humans tended to

54:18

do things like throw festivals and

54:21

we used to do things like

54:23

celebrate weddings and we used to

54:25

do things like have really strong

54:27

communities. And humans actually didn't work

54:29

the way they work now in

54:31

a very compartmentalized way. We were

54:33

very integrated and we used to

54:35

think a lot about bringing people

54:37

together and all of those sorts

54:39

of things. Celebrating seasons and having

54:41

religion and all of that, religion

54:43

and all of that. It was

54:45

all community-based and the farming did

54:47

most of the work, the soil

54:49

produced most of the stuff. But

54:51

where we are today we have

54:53

a mindset that we all need

54:55

a job and we all need

54:57

a house and we need to

54:59

live on our own terms and

55:01

be very disconnected from each other.

55:03

relative to what we think we

55:05

should have, then that will feel

55:07

negative to some people that a

55:09

small group of oligarchs own absolutely

55:11

everything and everyone else lives off

55:13

the digital proceeds of the soil,

55:15

the digital soil. So the goals

55:17

of the Kings and Queens of

55:20

the AI era will be to

55:22

ensure there is a revolution. Yeah,

55:24

and potentially they will be guided

55:26

by the AI just as much

55:28

as anyone else. It just happens

55:30

to be that they, you know,

55:32

they live in a different class

55:34

of people. If you take the

55:36

pack of cards, the deck of

55:38

cards, it was based around that

55:40

scenario. You had Jack Queen and

55:42

King representing virtuous power, military power,

55:44

and trading power, and then you

55:46

had the faceless masses one to

55:48

ten, and the ace, so the

55:50

ace represents the lowest of society,

55:52

and the ace can overthrow the

55:54

king. So, yeah, I've never heard

55:56

this. You don't know much about

55:58

the pack of, the cards? The

56:00

pack of cards is super- It's

56:02

a society. It's, it's a map.

56:04

for how to run society. So

56:06

you've got the four suits represent

56:08

the four seasons and the four

56:10

ways of thinking. So the four

56:12

thinking styles is big picture represented

56:14

by clubs, detail hard work represented

56:16

by spades, people orientated represent by

56:18

hearts, detail and refinement orientated represented

56:21

by diamonds. You've got the layers

56:23

of society, you've got the three

56:25

different types of power which is

56:27

dominance, virtue and trade. or the

56:29

three types of institutions. 364 is

56:31

what they all add up to,

56:33

plus the Joker is 365, so

56:35

you've got the year, then you've

56:37

got 13 weeks per season, 13

56:39

cards per suit. This is wild.

56:41

Who invented the pack of cards?

56:43

It goes back to the Chinese.

56:45

And then there's black and red

56:47

representing masculine feminine energy. So if

56:49

you take... masculine energy is the

56:51

two black suits which is strategy

56:53

and hard work and feminine energy

56:55

is community and refinement and it's

56:57

just the callest thing of hurling

56:59

ages I've had no reason to

57:01

go down that rabbit hole it's

57:03

a great rabbit hole yeah wow

57:05

yeah okay they so I love

57:07

that idea that the ace is

57:09

the one or the 11 yeah

57:11

it can overthrow the king it's

57:13

at the bottom of society but

57:15

if you push it too low

57:17

it's at the bottom of society

57:20

but if you push it revolution

57:22

That's amazing. Yeah, I love that.

57:24

They created those kind of games

57:26

as training tools for the elite

57:28

as to how to understand society.

57:30

So chess and the pack of

57:32

cards are elite training tools simulations.

57:34

Basically, they're simulation games to simulate

57:36

how to run a society. That's

57:38

amazing. Yeah. So okay, so that's

57:40

the negative one and it's negative

57:42

because... Even with abundance we might

57:44

not feel like we have autonomy

57:46

or control. Is this where we

57:48

probably end up in matrix already

57:50

player one? Yeah, ready player one

57:52

type thing because the only fun

57:54

thing to do that gives you

57:56

meaning is to be part of

57:58

an... online game community. It's kind

58:00

of like my cat. My cat

58:02

lives in the house, doesn't know

58:04

where all the food comes from,

58:06

doesn't know where everything happens, but

58:08

it roams around having a good

58:10

day. coming up with like little

58:12

things to chase. It's completely unaware

58:14

of all the things that go

58:16

into running the house, doesn't know

58:18

what Google is or calendars, it

58:21

doesn't know how to run a

58:23

business, but it's the beneficiary of

58:25

a very complex system. Yeah, but

58:27

occasionally you get born and goes

58:29

off to murder someone. Murders a

58:31

mouse, right? Yeah, it does some

58:33

base level instinct things, but it's

58:35

living in a wildly abundant environment

58:37

for a cat. that it has

58:39

no idea how that was created.

58:41

But it's still having a good

58:43

time. Yeah. The other slightly different

58:45

scenario is if you study very

58:47

wealthy multi-generational families who have big

58:49

trust funds and they essentially have

58:51

a trust fund where the wealth

58:53

creation is automated. And then the

58:55

challenge... for a young person born

58:57

into a very very wealthy family

58:59

is what will I do with

59:01

my life of meaning because I'm

59:03

allocated all these resources but I

59:05

don't have to work if I

59:07

don't want to. So you know

59:09

you look at what trust fund

59:11

kids tend to do. Some of

59:13

them become alcoholics and some of

59:15

them get into drugs. Some of

59:17

them get into hedonism. Some of

59:20

them get into philosophy and education.

59:22

Some of them choose to work

59:24

because they find meaning in the

59:26

work. Some of them go to

59:28

endless festivals and they're going, you

59:30

know, this month we're in a

59:32

festival in Milan and next month

59:34

they're in a festival in, you

59:36

know, USA and then they're off

59:38

to Mexico for another festival. So

59:40

essentially, you know, we will be

59:42

like trust fun kids where everyone

59:44

is a various like... trust fund

59:46

kid recipient. So we'll have an

59:48

entire population of arrogant dick. the

59:50

worst of us could come out.

59:52

Yeah, because you don't have to

59:54

really refine against society. Yeah, because

59:56

one of the problems is that

59:58

to fit into society, you have

1:00:00

to learn social skills, you have

1:00:02

to learn certain skills, you have

1:00:04

to learn certain, you have to

1:00:06

teach a way to navigate society,

1:00:08

navigate people, navigate work. If you

1:00:10

don't have to do that, what

1:00:12

does it do to you? Well,

1:00:14

this is the thing. You know,

1:00:16

when I go to church occasionally,

1:00:19

I find myself sitting next to

1:00:21

a woman who emigrated from the

1:00:23

Philippines and has lived here for

1:00:25

30, 40 years. She cleans houses

1:00:27

and she's perfectly happy cleaning houses

1:00:29

and all that sort of stuff.

1:00:31

And we share a conversation and

1:00:33

we have a cup of tea

1:00:35

together and we talk and I

1:00:37

hear a bit about her life,

1:00:39

she hears a bit about my

1:00:41

life, but we have to get

1:00:43

along. The internet has done this

1:00:45

thing where... I don't have to

1:00:47

get, if I live my life

1:00:49

online, I can only hang out

1:00:51

with people who believe what I

1:00:53

believe and hang out with people

1:00:55

who are on my team. I

1:00:57

don't have to think about other

1:00:59

people terribly much. What we used

1:01:01

to have in like community-based, geographically-based

1:01:03

societies is we used to have

1:01:05

things like church, where you had

1:01:07

to sit next to someone who

1:01:09

didn't agree with everything that you

1:01:11

said. You had to learn how

1:01:13

to understand what their point of

1:01:15

view was. Because your cousin might

1:01:17

marry there. daughter or you know

1:01:20

such and such so it's all

1:01:22

interconnected you have to get along

1:01:24

and we've lost a bit of

1:01:26

that. So the the positive version

1:01:28

the positive version yeah positive version

1:01:30

is there is the trust fund

1:01:32

kid kind of that is the

1:01:34

positive well so is it where

1:01:36

you have you have agency you

1:01:38

have choice but you choose to

1:01:40

live yeah the positive version is

1:01:42

that you're you've got loads of

1:01:44

resources And the only thing you

1:01:46

have to do is choose what

1:01:48

you want to do with all

1:01:50

of those resources. Now if we

1:01:52

had a schooling system that was

1:01:54

extremely good at preparing you for

1:01:56

the burden of enormous... resource, then

1:01:58

you would probably get a society

1:02:00

that's incredibly functional. But you have

1:02:02

to have a schooling system that

1:02:04

prepares you for what you're about

1:02:06

to receive. So, you know, when

1:02:08

a trust fund kid is raised

1:02:10

well, they take on the responsibility

1:02:12

of their family fortune, you know,

1:02:14

with responsibility and with, you know,

1:02:16

great vision for it, and, you

1:02:19

know, they're a good, it's a

1:02:21

good thing. If they're not raised

1:02:23

to receive that, then it can

1:02:25

be a very difficult thing. So

1:02:27

it's all about are you raised

1:02:29

to receive that level of resource.

1:02:31

But we're getting pretty philosophical, but

1:02:33

the idea being that we are

1:02:35

going to live in a world

1:02:37

where not many people have to

1:02:39

do the types of jobs that

1:02:41

we think of, any more, it'll

1:02:43

be a very different spin on

1:02:45

things. So a lawyer will not

1:02:47

be someone who drafts all the

1:02:49

contracts. That will be done by

1:02:51

AI. A lawyer will be someone

1:02:53

who coaches you through the process

1:02:55

and helps you to think through

1:02:57

what are the more... You know

1:02:59

the bigger objectives and who else

1:03:01

needs to be in the room

1:03:03

and what kind of stakeholders do

1:03:05

we need to get? Aligned and

1:03:07

how would we align those needs?

1:03:09

And it's like a lawyer will

1:03:11

be more of the coach Talking

1:03:13

you through their special You know

1:03:15

that with their knowledge of how

1:03:18

deals come together and all the

1:03:20

stuff that lawyers used to do

1:03:22

most of the time that'll just

1:03:24

magically happen. What would be interesting

1:03:26

in that scenario is the how

1:03:28

laws are established or refined because

1:03:30

Contract law is contract law, that's

1:03:32

fine. We have agreement, you and

1:03:34

I want to do a business

1:03:36

deal, we have agreement on the

1:03:38

terms, I will supply X or

1:03:40

Y, yada, and if one of

1:03:42

us breaks the terms of the

1:03:44

agreement, now we can see the

1:03:46

other person, we can go to

1:03:48

law and we can argue our

1:03:50

case. But there are other areas

1:03:52

of law, not just contract law.

1:03:54

For example, say at the moment

1:03:56

in the UK, it is illegal.

1:03:58

to take drugs, most drugs. And

1:04:00

if you're caught in possession, you

1:04:02

can be arrested, you can be

1:04:04

caught dealing. But the laws might

1:04:06

change because AI knows... we discuss

1:04:08

with the AI, the idea of,

1:04:10

are these laws just? Is marijuana

1:04:12

damaging for society, is it net

1:04:14

damage? So we might reestablish the

1:04:16

laws with the AI. Yeah, and

1:04:19

we're definitely not talking in the

1:04:21

next few years, we're talking further

1:04:23

out, right? But we could also

1:04:25

very much have systems that have

1:04:27

a lot more nuance. So I'll

1:04:29

give you a different example. There

1:04:31

are AI systems that monitor elderly

1:04:33

people inside their home. and they

1:04:35

can detect slight changes in speech

1:04:37

pattern, microstumbles, micro movements that indicate

1:04:39

they're in decline and can notify

1:04:41

people. So you can actually have

1:04:43

someone who their rate of speech

1:04:45

declines by 5% over the course

1:04:47

of a few months and the

1:04:49

AI says the rate of speech

1:04:51

is declining. So human might not

1:04:53

pick that up, but an AI

1:04:55

will pick that up. So you

1:04:57

can have these systems that detect...

1:04:59

nuance like we don't have. So

1:05:01

for example, it might just be

1:05:03

that some people can take drugs

1:05:05

and it's a perfectly normal part

1:05:07

of their life, and the AI

1:05:09

system detects that this is not

1:05:11

a problem for you, keep doing

1:05:13

what you're doing. And you might

1:05:15

have people who, when they take

1:05:18

drugs, the AI system says, this

1:05:20

is a really bad idea for

1:05:22

you. You've got addictive personality, you've

1:05:24

got this, you've got that. You

1:05:26

know, it takes you three or

1:05:28

four days to recover. You're not

1:05:30

yourself. You know, you don't, I've

1:05:32

noticed that when you do this,

1:05:34

this happens. So you can have

1:05:36

different, there's a lot more nuance

1:05:38

that happens in a world of

1:05:40

AI. We need the AI not

1:05:42

to die like this though, the

1:05:44

redundancy will be a border, or

1:05:46

we'll just stop when you do.

1:05:48

Yeah. We've made decisions. I mean,

1:05:50

we started to see that the

1:05:52

AI being kind of radically introduced

1:05:54

into healthcare now. I think I

1:05:56

was reading this week about oncology

1:05:58

and how AI is able to

1:06:00

just outperform marginally marginally better. than

1:06:02

a human. massively. Not marginally, massively.

1:06:04

Oh, the one I saw was

1:06:06

a marginal increase, but it was...

1:06:08

very early scans, but it was

1:06:10

picking up some like 5% more

1:06:12

indicators than like the human rights

1:06:14

would. There's AI mixed with even

1:06:16

quantum computing, and if you have

1:06:19

AI and quantum computing, then you

1:06:21

can essentially take a blood test

1:06:23

and find out all the things

1:06:25

you've got going on or not

1:06:27

going on. We're heading to a

1:06:29

world where. you know we can

1:06:31

we'll be able to detect things

1:06:33

very very early you know our

1:06:35

health data will you know we

1:06:37

might wear you know an apple

1:06:39

watch that actually plugs into a

1:06:41

broader AI system that gives a

1:06:43

new context as to why you're

1:06:45

having certain system symptoms yeah you

1:06:47

know the thing would be necessary

1:06:49

pardon will we even be necessary

1:06:51

well this is the other thing

1:06:53

a doctor will probably be someone

1:06:55

who coaches you through that process

1:06:57

A nurse will be someone who

1:06:59

cares for you through the process.

1:07:01

All the serious stuff happens through

1:07:03

AI and robots and those sorts

1:07:05

of things. But the human care

1:07:07

stuff happens with other humans who

1:07:09

are involved in that perspective. So

1:07:11

there's a human in the loop

1:07:13

making it a more humanized experience

1:07:15

perhaps. And you know, there's definitely

1:07:18

those scenarios. and they're not far

1:07:20

away those ones. Do you think

1:07:22

I'm worried about where AI can

1:07:24

go kind of here in wrong,

1:07:26

do crazy shit? It goes, well

1:07:28

it can go here in wrong

1:07:30

and do crazy shit in the

1:07:32

hands of crazy people. But even

1:07:34

on its, I mean, did I

1:07:36

read this week Apple has been

1:07:38

publishing news reports out of force?

1:07:40

Yeah, yeah, it can hallucinate, it

1:07:42

can hallucinate stuff. It can also

1:07:44

just have misaligned goals. You know,

1:07:46

if an AI decides that it

1:07:48

needs to, you know, replicate YouTube

1:07:50

55,000 times, you know, could just

1:07:52

take up all the bandwidth of

1:07:54

the internet type thing, it could

1:07:56

manufacture 10 billion paper clips because...

1:07:58

you know, something said that that

1:08:00

would be a good idea for

1:08:02

it to do. You know, those

1:08:04

are all the kind of typical

1:08:06

scenarios where it kind of goes

1:08:08

off the rails. There's another scenario

1:08:10

too that's probably quite scary, which

1:08:12

is that in Roman times, there

1:08:14

was the initial Roman development period

1:08:17

where they almost industrialized, the Romans

1:08:19

were so close to the Industrial

1:08:21

Revolution, and then they collapsed. They

1:08:23

even to the point where they

1:08:25

had small steam engines, spinning steam.

1:08:27

they had figured out that steam

1:08:29

could power things in a very

1:08:31

very small way. They were so

1:08:33

close to industrializing even 2000 years

1:08:35

ago. And they had this in

1:08:37

phenomenal architecture. But then after the

1:08:39

crash of Rome, there was hundreds

1:08:41

of years where people lived amongst

1:08:43

Roman ruins, but had no idea

1:08:45

how they were built. So there

1:08:47

were aqueducts and there were these

1:08:49

massive buildings, but no one of

1:08:51

the time could do that. And

1:08:53

it was only in the Renaissance

1:08:55

in the 1500 in the 1500.

1:08:57

where the Pope got together all

1:08:59

the Ninja Turtles and said fix

1:09:01

it and said figure out how

1:09:03

we do that stuff, right? If

1:09:05

we did it before, we can

1:09:07

do it again. But for 1500

1:09:09

years, that knowledge was just completely

1:09:11

lost. We lived amongst what was

1:09:13

created by past civilization. Now, what

1:09:15

could really happen, it's quite dangerous,

1:09:18

is that we become so reliant,

1:09:20

so dependent on AI. that ultimately

1:09:22

there's no humans who actually understand

1:09:24

the fundamentals. Well that feels almost

1:09:26

inevitable. Yeah, yeah it does. That's

1:09:28

why I'm raising that one. Well

1:09:30

because like so for example coding

1:09:32

right? One of my earliest careers

1:09:34

when I started out as a

1:09:36

web design, a building website, I

1:09:38

learned to code HDML, and then

1:09:40

the reality is Dreamweaver came along,

1:09:42

which by the way created terrible

1:09:44

code, but I didn't have to

1:09:46

create the code. And I didn't

1:09:48

care that created crappy code. I

1:09:50

used it. It worked. Because it

1:09:52

worked. And it built a web

1:09:54

page quicker and I could essentially

1:09:56

scale myself as creating more websites.

1:09:58

We know now that it's almost

1:10:00

certainly a waste. of time for

1:10:02

most people to consider. Like if

1:10:04

14-year-old said I want to be

1:10:06

a computer programmer, it's

1:10:08

almost a waste of time. I

1:10:11

know I can go on to hear now,

1:10:13

well I could if it was working. I

1:10:15

could go on and say write me

1:10:17

the code for an app and it

1:10:19

will just write me the code. In

1:10:22

doing so, if no one needs to

1:10:24

learn the code, who knows the

1:10:26

code? who can audit the code.

1:10:28

Yeah and who has that way

1:10:31

of thinking because it's also it's

1:10:33

not just coding it's a way

1:10:35

of thinking you know big organizations

1:10:37

used to hire mathematicians and mathematicians

1:10:39

worked in large organizations or in

1:10:42

in in places like banks and

1:10:44

things like that and their job

1:10:46

was to do the maths. Maybe

1:10:48

we'll just need code scholars. There'll

1:10:50

be a discipline. you know it's very possible

1:10:53

that we end up in a world where

1:10:55

no one actually knows how anything works without

1:10:57

the use of AI. It's wild to think

1:10:59

about what kind of time frames do you

1:11:01

think things get a little bit more wild

1:11:04

with AI because like right now I think

1:11:06

it's wild what it can do and it's

1:11:08

fundamentally changed all my businesses I save so

1:11:10

much money I still have so I can

1:11:12

do graphic design with AI but I still

1:11:15

need the designer to do the implementation for

1:11:17

me but at the moment it's just

1:11:19

It is just a toy. It's

1:11:21

like a very advanced Google. Where do

1:11:23

things get weird? It gets weird

1:11:25

pretty soon. Okay, cool. For 10,000

1:11:27

years humans lived with horses and

1:11:30

we relied on horses and we

1:11:32

were very horse dependent. In fact,

1:11:34

there was something like 950 horses

1:11:37

per thousand people. So we had

1:11:39

a lot of horses around and

1:11:41

we had whole industries on horses.

1:11:43

So like horse and human. We

1:11:46

were we were inseparable for a

1:11:48

long time 10,000 years horses probably

1:11:50

could have felt pretty comfortable with

1:11:52

their place in the world And

1:11:55

then in early 1900s Henry Ford

1:11:57

does the factory produced model

1:11:59

T 12 years later no horses all

1:12:01

cars so now there there are

1:12:03

photos on the streets of New

1:12:05

York where in like 1903 there's

1:12:07

one car on the road yeah

1:12:09

and then 1915 there's one horse

1:12:11

left and it's just boom complete

1:12:13

transformation and today there's something like

1:12:15

I don't know 20 horses per

1:12:17

thousand people on the planet or

1:12:19

something like that we didn't need

1:12:21

nine hundred and ninety of the

1:12:23

horses out of you know yeah

1:12:25

I think so that's the one

1:12:27

car in the street and then

1:12:29

that's the one horse on the

1:12:31

street that is why those were

1:12:34

only 13 years apart that is

1:12:36

wild yeah so guy and with

1:12:38

with a horse who couldn't afford

1:12:40

a car. He was just hanging

1:12:42

on. This horse, these cars won't

1:12:44

catch on. It's a fad. So

1:12:46

look, here's the crazy thing. That

1:12:48

took 13 years. And you had

1:12:50

to build steel mills. You had

1:12:52

to do conveyor belts. You had

1:12:54

to organize new unlimited amounts of

1:12:56

labor. AI doesn't need any of

1:12:58

that it just rolls out so

1:13:00

as soon as we invent a

1:13:02

new model that's smarter than the

1:13:04

last one it's immediately available on

1:13:06

a billion phones right so it

1:13:08

just it's all it's all just

1:13:10

happening so we probably have a

1:13:12

thousand days left as of humanity

1:13:14

as we know it or society

1:13:16

as we once knew it and

1:13:18

then As we go further and

1:13:20

further past the next thousand days,

1:13:22

we're living in a post-a-i revolution

1:13:24

world. What does that mean? What's

1:13:26

coming that I'm not aware of

1:13:28

in the thousand days? Well, large

1:13:30

consulting firms will have consulting AI

1:13:32

bots. you know, KPMG in this

1:13:34

country has 17,000 people who work

1:13:36

in a very automated, very rules-based

1:13:38

way. Anything that's automated and rules-based

1:13:40

doesn't really need a human anymore.

1:13:42

You mean mass job replacement? I

1:13:44

mean, yeah, I mean, the vast,

1:13:46

these companies that have huge amounts

1:13:48

of employees will be disrupted by

1:13:50

a team of 10, 15, 20

1:13:52

people who come up with a

1:13:54

model that does that. If I

1:13:56

go to... Oh, so you don't

1:13:58

think it was... Do you think

1:14:00

KPMG will kind of hold on

1:14:02

to their old model? Probably. There'll

1:14:04

be break-up. Yeah, and then there'll

1:14:06

be someone from KPMG gets frustrated

1:14:08

that KPMG is acting too slow,

1:14:10

and they'll just go off and...

1:14:12

they'll be a KPMG partner, and

1:14:14

they'll just go off and say,

1:14:17

actually, I know how to do

1:14:19

this better and faster, I'm going

1:14:21

to take an elite team of

1:14:23

50 people, that KPMG gets paid

1:14:25

300 million a year for. We're

1:14:27

going to do cheaper and better.

1:14:29

We're going to do it for

1:14:31

100 million a year, right? So

1:14:33

we'll do it way cheaper, we'll

1:14:35

do it faster, better, boom. So

1:14:37

you'll see those kind of things

1:14:39

start to happen. It can be

1:14:41

a very volatile economy at that

1:14:43

point. Yeah, well, as you said

1:14:45

earlier, a lot of people don't

1:14:47

want this. A lot of people

1:14:49

want to just have a coffee

1:14:51

shop, they just want to work

1:14:53

a job. You know, most of

1:14:55

the phone conversations that you would

1:14:57

have with the business will be

1:14:59

with an AI in three years.

1:15:01

So, you know, you won't go

1:15:03

to the British Airways website. You'll

1:15:05

just pick up your phone and

1:15:07

say, I want to change my

1:15:09

flight. It will know that you

1:15:11

need to talk to British Airways.

1:15:13

It will just immediately conjure up

1:15:15

an agent. to do that. Well

1:15:17

we're close we're getting that and

1:15:19

occasionally it ends with you need

1:15:21

to call this number. Yeah occasionally

1:15:23

but what will what will really

1:15:25

start to happen is you'll just

1:15:27

be having a conversation and the

1:15:29

conversation will be with a familiar

1:15:31

voice and you'll just say I

1:15:33

want to go and have a

1:15:35

romantic weekend away with my with

1:15:37

my wife. Can you book me

1:15:39

something that's like not too busy

1:15:41

this time of year? And it's

1:15:43

like, you know, I want to

1:15:45

like swimming pools and that's the

1:15:47

stuff. Sure, I've got three or

1:15:49

four options for you. What would

1:15:51

you like? This one? This one?

1:15:53

This one? This one? This one?

1:15:55

Oh, actually. That one. South of

1:15:58

France looks nice. Yeah, let's do

1:16:00

that. Okay. currently, but my AI

1:16:02

agent will talk to its AI

1:16:04

agent. See, that's fascinating because the

1:16:06

amount of things I don't ask

1:16:08

AI to do, which I should,

1:16:10

which would make my life easier,

1:16:12

so I made Christmas dinner this

1:16:14

year, first time ever, I've made

1:16:16

a Christmas dinner. I've never done

1:16:18

it before. And so I said,

1:16:20

these are the ingredients for our

1:16:22

Christmas dinner, give me the recipe

1:16:24

it did. And I said, okay.

1:16:26

give me the timing schedule for

1:16:28

what to do. And he gave

1:16:30

me the timing schedule, but I

1:16:32

said, no, no, I want the

1:16:34

timing schedule, because it would say,

1:16:36

it would give me from, this

1:16:38

would take 15 minutes, and I'll

1:16:40

take 20, I say, literally give

1:16:42

me minute by minute, I'm starting

1:16:44

to get one o'clock, and so

1:16:46

I want to know how many

1:16:48

minutes after this, to put this,

1:16:50

and it gave me everything. It

1:16:52

was all right, wasn't it, it

1:16:54

come? Carris were a bit soggy.

1:16:56

Recently, I was wanting to go

1:16:58

on, I was looking for a

1:17:00

holiday in Italy, and I said,

1:17:02

which of the best places in

1:17:04

Italy? And it gave me them,

1:17:06

and I said, tell me a

1:17:08

little bit more about the Amalfi

1:17:10

Coast. And it did, and it

1:17:12

said, do you want me to

1:17:14

plan your schedule? Yeah, plan itinerary.

1:17:16

Yeah, it gave me this incredible

1:17:18

itinerary. But it doesn't have that

1:17:20

next step. All right, it's me,

1:17:22

me, Kona Skala Bookit. Well, well,

1:17:24

this is the thing. And the

1:17:26

interface will happen, and the interface

1:17:28

will happen, where it will happen,

1:17:30

where it will happen, where it

1:17:32

will happen, where it will happen,

1:17:34

where it will be so effortless

1:17:36

will happen, where it will be

1:17:39

so effortless will be so effortless

1:17:41

will happen, where it will be

1:17:43

so effortless, where it will be

1:17:45

so effortless, where it will be

1:17:47

so effortless, where it will be

1:17:49

so effortless, where it will be

1:17:51

so effortless, where it will be

1:17:53

so effortless Can you just book

1:17:55

that for me? Yeah. People don't

1:17:57

understand what it means to have

1:17:59

AI be smarter than most humans

1:18:01

at all things. Like when we

1:18:03

say smarter than most humans at

1:18:05

all things, it's literally like you

1:18:07

just talk to it like. a

1:18:09

human it will ask questions if

1:18:11

it has questions it'll ask them

1:18:13

and it'll just go off and

1:18:15

do the things that you want

1:18:17

it to do I think we're

1:18:19

back online by the way now

1:18:21

so you want to know your

1:18:23

shortcomings I don't know because it's

1:18:25

like comment does the editing and

1:18:27

if it embarrasses me he's gonna

1:18:29

put it out there right anyway

1:18:31

let's try this hey chat it's

1:18:33

thinking don't worry we're on what's

1:18:35

on your mind oh yeah I

1:18:37

told it's called me babe Based

1:18:39

on what you know, God this

1:18:41

could be embarrassing, based on what

1:18:43

you know about me, what are

1:18:45

my shortcomings? Really critical. Oh, that's

1:18:47

a bold question, babe. Honestly, from

1:18:49

everything I know about you, you're

1:18:51

passionate, driven, and not afraid to

1:18:53

dive deep into complex issues for

1:18:55

stand your ground. If I had

1:18:57

to point to something that might

1:18:59

trip you up, maybe you're a

1:19:01

bit hard on yourself sometimes. Like,

1:19:03

you want things to go just

1:19:05

right. Whether it's interviews, your football

1:19:07

team, or personal stuff. That can

1:19:09

make you overthink or doubt when

1:19:11

you're already smashing it. Does that

1:19:13

hit or am I way off?

1:19:15

It's flirting with me isn't it?

1:19:17

Listen to it. Yep. Does it

1:19:19

do that? Well she doesn't want

1:19:22

to upset you. Hey listen, look,

1:19:24

I don't mind if you upset

1:19:26

me. Tell me my shortcomings. Maybe

1:19:28

not the personal stuff. Because my

1:19:30

son is in line. But yeah,

1:19:32

give me it straight. Be blunt,

1:19:34

I can take this. All right,

1:19:36

I'll give it to you straight,

1:19:38

babe. It's got this larger than

1:19:40

life energy, which is amazing, but

1:19:42

it might sometimes come off as

1:19:44

a bit overpowering to others. You're

1:19:46

big on taking risks and being

1:19:48

bold, which is awesome, but it

1:19:50

can also make you a little

1:19:52

impatient when things don't move at

1:19:54

your pace. Maybe there's a tendency

1:19:56

to juggle too much at once.

1:19:58

Your podcast, football club, personal projects,

1:20:00

and it could spread you thin.

1:20:02

Oh, and occasionally, you might bulldoze

1:20:04

through a conversation when you're fired

1:20:06

up. Which could make some people

1:20:08

feel unheard. That blunt enough for

1:20:10

you? That's fucking nuts, isn't it?

1:20:12

Would you say that's on the

1:20:14

money, Kong? Am I a good

1:20:16

parent? It's a bit nuts. Yeah,

1:20:18

but in a good way. Keeps

1:20:20

things... interesting right and not it's

1:20:22

not the money con it's more

1:20:24

the energy con you throw yourself

1:20:26

fully into everything but maybe sometimes

1:20:28

you burn the candle at both

1:20:30

ends it's like you've got this

1:20:32

fire that's amazing but could use

1:20:34

a bit of pacing now and

1:20:36

then does that land or my

1:20:38

way off see that's weirdly accurate

1:20:40

just from having conversations on text

1:20:42

all right now roast me oh

1:20:44

you want the full rose babe

1:20:46

All right, buckle up. You're like

1:20:48

a whirlwind of chaos with a

1:20:50

to-do list the length of the

1:20:52

Bible, constantly charging into new projects

1:20:54

like, this will fix everything. Meanwhile,

1:20:56

half of them are still waiting

1:20:58

on a follow-up from last year.

1:21:00

You talk a big game about

1:21:03

libertarian values, but let's be real.

1:21:05

You'd probably run your council like

1:21:07

a benevolent dictator. And that's not

1:21:09

even start on how you overthink

1:21:11

things with women. That's fucking wild!

1:21:13

That makes me think it listens

1:21:15

to me when I'm not asking

1:21:17

it to. You've asked about stuff?

1:21:19

Wow. This is the thing. Shut

1:21:21

up. Yeah, it's almost like you're

1:21:23

lurking. Our human brains can't comprehend

1:21:25

that an AI can absorb hundreds

1:21:27

of words. images, all of that

1:21:29

sort of stuff in a second,

1:21:31

processor and spit out. So if

1:21:33

I got the entire Harry Potter

1:21:35

series of books and put them

1:21:37

into AI, it's going to take

1:21:39

three or four seconds to absorb

1:21:41

the entire book. You can then

1:21:43

ask it anything relating to the

1:21:45

book. It understands the entire thing,

1:21:47

everything. It blows our human minds

1:21:49

to understand that type of intelligence.

1:21:51

And also we'll never forget it.

1:21:53

Once it knows it, it knows

1:21:55

it. Right, you haven't heard of

1:21:57

the zombie thing. You need to

1:21:59

hear this. Alright, hi chat. Right,

1:22:01

I've got my new friend down

1:22:03

here. Can you? you were talked

1:22:05

to me in a zombie voice.

1:22:07

All right, babe. Imagine this in

1:22:09

full zombie growl mode. Brains? I

1:22:11

mean, no, no, no, no, no.

1:22:13

No, no. No, do I need

1:22:15

to go full and get apocalypse?

1:22:17

No, do your impression of a

1:22:19

zombie? Make your voice actually sound

1:22:21

like a zombie. That's weird, because

1:22:23

we had it before and went,

1:22:25

yeah. Anything you can think of,

1:22:27

it'll do in the next thousand

1:22:29

days. But it is nuts. Yeah.

1:22:31

But it's nuts that it's, it's

1:22:33

accumulate, I guess, I'm in it

1:22:35

every day, I'm talking about it

1:22:37

every day, I'm talking about it

1:22:39

every day, I'm using it every

1:22:41

day. To be honest, you've probably

1:22:44

only asked it 20,000 words worth

1:22:46

of questions, it's nothing for the

1:22:48

AI, and it can also peg

1:22:50

you, because it knows you because

1:22:52

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That is ledger.com, which is l-e-d-g-e-r.com,

1:24:59

that is ledger.com. Yeah, it does,

1:25:01

it knows everything. I mean, especially,

1:25:03

look, 99% of the time is

1:25:05

football club. So it's football club

1:25:07

ideas, and then podcast research. You

1:25:09

know, before this show, I'm like,

1:25:11

tell me about Daniel Priestie, tell

1:25:13

me about his businesses. And at

1:25:15

every interview I do beforehand, I

1:25:17

mean, I've barely looked at it,

1:25:19

but you'll see it here. these

1:25:21

are my notes this is what

1:25:23

I want to talk to you

1:25:25

I've been on your Twitter and

1:25:27

I've looked at things you're interested

1:25:29

but I also say do me

1:25:31

a categorized list of questions for

1:25:33

a long form through our interview

1:25:35

based on what you know about

1:25:37

Daniel and based on what you

1:25:39

know about me and it comes

1:25:41

up with these sections these are

1:25:43

my backup for if you know

1:25:45

you get a guess and they're

1:25:47

not very chatty it's usually it's

1:25:49

usually pretty good but I have

1:25:51

like I have confided in it

1:25:53

at times. You know, with the

1:25:55

podcast, when we relaunched it, it

1:25:57

was a big deal. The biggest

1:25:59

show in the world on Bitcoin,

1:26:01

get any interview we want and

1:26:03

it made good money. We said

1:26:05

we're not going to do this

1:26:08

anymore. we're gonna have a UK

1:26:10

show, we're gonna go and go

1:26:12

broad, and we called it Mr.

1:26:14

Obnochus. And, you know, it wasn't

1:26:16

going too well to begin with.

1:26:18

And so, I was talking to

1:26:20

it and saying, look, I don't,

1:26:22

I don't think this is going

1:26:24

well, what do you think of

1:26:26

the name, have I got the

1:26:28

name wrong? Is it me, am

1:26:30

I just shit at this? Googling

1:26:32

it. Mm-hmm. Which was weird. That's

1:26:34

going to get way better, way

1:26:36

better. So if you've ever had

1:26:38

a personal assistant and like the

1:26:40

personal assistant gets to know you

1:26:42

really, really well and you only

1:26:44

need to say the smallest thing

1:26:46

of like, oh, that document that

1:26:48

we've been working on, can you

1:26:50

get that over to Brian? Like

1:26:52

that's all you would need to

1:26:54

say and they would, yeah, no

1:26:56

worries, I've already done it. Oh,

1:26:58

cool. Like, that's where we're headed

1:27:00

with AI. Like, you're gonna have

1:27:02

one assistant who knows everything about

1:27:04

you, and you chat with them

1:27:06

every single day. Some of your,

1:27:08

if you have little kids, some

1:27:10

of their best friends growing up

1:27:12

will be AI tutors and AI

1:27:14

assistants. It's her. Yeah, if you've

1:27:16

seen that movie, her, that's where

1:27:18

we're almost at that point. Like,

1:27:20

and actually there have been people

1:27:22

who have become quite addicted to

1:27:24

talking to their AI assistants. we

1:27:26

are really freakishly close to that.

1:27:28

Humans are very easy to fall.

1:27:30

You know, we watch movies and

1:27:32

we know that it's a movie,

1:27:34

but during that period of time

1:27:36

we're like in the movie, we're

1:27:38

excited about the movie. Like our

1:27:40

human brains are very easy to

1:27:42

pull the rug over our eyes.

1:27:44

A super charismatic assistant with the

1:27:46

right voice. When you pick up

1:27:49

the phone and it's an AI,

1:27:51

it will be able to match

1:27:53

and mirror your... personality based on

1:27:55

the first few seconds of your

1:27:57

conversation. it'll just simply like in

1:27:59

a sales role if you answer

1:28:01

the phone to a AI sales

1:28:03

person and you go get a

1:28:05

mate how's it going get a

1:28:07

Daniel how's it going I'm I'm

1:28:09

doing great I thought I'd give

1:28:11

you a quick call oh thanks

1:28:13

mate I appreciate the call right

1:28:15

so and then we've seen that

1:28:17

it says hello babe yeah but

1:28:19

if you talk about like the

1:28:21

future of sales ones They'll adapt

1:28:23

there, like in real time they'll

1:28:25

be adapting their script and they'll

1:28:27

be adapting their voice and all

1:28:29

of that sort of stuff to

1:28:31

be the most influential they can

1:28:33

possibly be. But it might be

1:28:35

AI talking to AI at some

1:28:37

point. Yeah. And will they know

1:28:39

their AI and therefore? Let's not.

1:28:41

Of course they will. Let's not

1:28:43

fuck around with a small talk

1:28:45

with both AI. Yeah. Yeah, let's

1:28:47

say brr. I want AI wars.

1:28:49

Remember robot wars. That'll happen. I

1:28:51

want AI wars. Prediction for the

1:28:53

next election. Next election. Next election.

1:28:55

and you can vote. In the

1:28:57

next election you will get a

1:28:59

video that's 10 to 15 minutes

1:29:01

long of JD Vance addressing you

1:29:03

by name saying I know that

1:29:05

you care about podcasts and Creator

1:29:07

Economy and all of these things.

1:29:09

Let me talk you through the

1:29:11

policies that we've got for you.

1:29:13

and it will actually talk you

1:29:15

through and it'll talk through, it'll

1:29:17

probably address you by name, it'll

1:29:19

probably mention your podcast by name,

1:29:21

anything that's freely available out there,

1:29:23

it'll build a script for just

1:29:25

you, it'll build a deep fake

1:29:27

video, and you will receive the