0:00

I've said for a while we're

0:02

going to win the election. We

0:04

have to win the election, because

0:06

if we don't win the election,

0:08

I'm not sure we can rescue

0:10

the country now, but if we

0:12

have another period of the unit

0:14

party beyond 29, then I think

0:16

the country will self-immolate. It's on

0:19

a catastrophic course. We have moved,

0:21

as you say, the Overton window,

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because we've got into Parliament, nobody

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saw that we were talking common

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sense. All we are is the

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common sense party. We just want

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we on? We're already starting. Yeah, so

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we're back-to-back promotions. We would start in

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the 10th tier here. We're now on

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the 8th. top of that league, we

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get X Academy Boys from Luton, some

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X Luton, he didn't make it. There

1:30

are a lot of X Academy Boys,

1:32

I don't know if you know, but

1:34

Glenn Hoddle tried basically taking the X

1:37

Academy Boys because they've been very

1:39

well trained. Yeah. And we nearly

1:41

let Gareth Bale go when he was 14,

1:43

he put on, had a growth spurt. And

1:45

because he was a left-sided player,

1:47

and they're as rare as hen's teeth,

1:50

we didn't let him, and then he

1:52

developed. and the rest is history as they say

1:54

I mean he I think we sold him

1:56

for 10 million and Totten sold him for

1:58

100 million euros so to Roe Madrid. Did

2:01

you get a percentage of that? Well, saints,

2:03

when you go across a football boundary, saints

2:05

got 5% of that. So they got another

2:07

5 million euros for the training and

2:09

development. And if you ever had come

2:12

back to England, it would have been

2:14

another payment. So the way the training

2:16

and development works is you get, if it

2:18

crosses a football boundary, and fine

2:20

enough, England to Scotland is crossing

2:23

a football boundary. So that is payment

2:25

under football terms. I mean, personally, I've

2:27

always thought there's an argument

2:30

that Celtic and Rangers should be

2:32

all part of a British League. That

2:34

would be, that would, to me, would,

2:36

would, would add flavor to the, to

2:38

the Premier League. Or maybe the championship.

2:40

Or whichever, but they're big clubs and

2:42

I think, you know, they would bring

2:44

a further flavor, a bit like, sort

2:46

of Saints playing Pompey or Man City

2:48

playing menu or whatever. So, look, I

2:50

mean, it's not, it's not going to

2:53

happen. So yeah, in theory, every time

2:55

you cross the boundary, if you've

2:57

done the training and development, you

2:59

get... you get 5%? Well, so

3:01

I don't know how much non-league

3:03

football you watch, but a lot

3:05

of it is old school, football,

3:07

kick it or kick people. Well,

3:09

I did own a club called

3:11

Garforth Town, which is up near

3:13

Leeds, which when I, because I

3:15

have a football franchise business with

3:17

my son, which is called Soccer

3:20

Tots and Brazilian Soccer Schools. If

3:22

you've got a football club, you

3:24

should look at it. I've

3:26

heard of Soccer Tots. Brazilian

3:28

soccer schools, because when I

3:30

was at Southampton, Clive Woodwood and

3:32

I, did a study on why

3:34

Brazil had won the World Cup

3:36

more than anybody else. And we

3:39

came up with this football,

3:41

they used to play called

3:43

Football de Salau, spelled F-U-T-E-B-O-L-S-S-A-L-A-O,

3:45

which has been bastardised

3:47

into Foot Sal. Yes. It's not the

3:49

same. And Foot Sal there is easier

3:52

to televise, which is why it's all

3:54

gone to Foot Sal. two foots are

3:56

away from football to Salau. She's

3:58

won the World Cup. much less. So

4:00

what it is is you play in

4:03

a small court, heavy ball, high tempo

4:05

music, passing a movement, and you learn,

4:07

if you watch the Brazilians in the

4:09

old days, they were capable of getting

4:12

out of very tight spaces, quick one,

4:14

two passes, always moving. And if you

4:16

watched, if you watched Barcelona at their

4:19

best, when they played Manchester United, there

4:21

was that game, I think they won

4:23

it five, one or something, maybe five,

4:25

maybe five, they should have won by

4:28

about. 14 nil. I mean they were

4:30

literally passing, moving, passing, moving. They didn't

4:32

take a corner. They literally passed from

4:34

a corner. And it's just that's how

4:37

football should be played in my view.

4:39

And so football does allow and that's

4:41

the basis of it. The soccer tots

4:43

was the start. So you can actually

4:46

teach people. And it's not just about

4:48

football. It's about human development. So you

4:50

teach people social skills. You teach them

4:52

to learn. You teach them to learn

4:55

about colors. you teach them about everything

4:57

and it's very good parental interface with

4:59

their children, so particularly fathers who often

5:01

don't see their children. If they spend

5:04

half an hour or an hour with

5:06

their child engaging in something they both

5:08

love, it works very well. So that

5:10

gets both boys and girls play soccer,

5:13

play soccer, do the soccer tops. When

5:15

they get to six, often a lot

5:17

of the girls will leave, but not

5:19

now, because you've obviously got women's football,

5:22

which is developed. Look, I mean, I

5:24

think it's a great, if I was

5:26

at Southampton now, I would put on

5:28

our community side, which was a cost

5:31

centre, where we used to have a

5:33

sort of network computers for the community

5:35

and everything else, used to cost us

5:37

money, it was very important that we

5:40

were in the community, but now you

5:42

could put a proper franchise, a soccer-tops

5:44

franchise, and you actually could deal with

5:46

your community side in a properly structured

5:49

way, and whilst you wouldn't get very

5:51

many players through... into your academy necessarily,

5:53

you're still doing a lot for your

5:55

support base. Because the key is for

5:58

the club, it's a community asset, it

6:00

has to interface with all these people

6:02

early on. their lives and then they

6:04

become true supporters not like David Miller

6:07

who sort of migrated from Fulham to

6:09

Chelsea. People like that you know that

6:11

that to me is that that is

6:14

yellow-bellied unacceptable behavior. Well our managers as

6:16

an ex-professional Robson Claire he played for

6:18

Stevenage and Forrest Green and he came

6:20

in at step six I said we're

6:23

gonna play football and so he has

6:25

targeted... Forrest Green reminds me of the

6:27

wretched Dale Vince so it's a bad

6:29

experience. That's a bad experience. That aside,

6:32

he wanted to play football, so he

6:34

was targeting academy players because they'd been

6:36

coached. So when you see us, most

6:38

teams we line up against, we look

6:41

quite small, but our records, I think

6:43

we've done an 80% win rate in...

6:45

over three seasons. Yeah, he's worked for

6:47

him. But also on our women's side,

6:50

our women's side won the treble last

6:52

year and we are second in the

6:54

table now we drew with Norwich yesterday.

6:56

Well done. So we get in, oh

6:59

no, on Sunday, so we get in

7:01

there, but it's funny because it's three

7:03

years now as a chairman and probably

7:05

not the same pressures as a Premier

7:08

League chairman, but one of the things

7:10

I was thinking on the way down

7:12

is that, there's never enough money for,

7:14

which you will know have him run

7:17

a football club. Do you think our

7:19

Parliament operates on results based basis? I'm

7:21

not sure. I think they'd have all

7:23

been fired by now if they did.

7:26

Well, they've running, I think they're operating

7:28

like some of the clubs that have

7:30

gone historically busts like Leeds did by

7:32

Darby did. Yeah, but again, you see

7:35

we've got the football regulator regulator, you

7:37

know, the government who are basically, or

7:39

Parliament is manned by... people have got

7:41

no real life experience. Most of them

7:44

have carried a bag for somebody and

7:46

probably sucked up to people and got

7:48

themselves a nice seat and they're now

7:50

in Parliament and they're only 92 grand

7:53

a year and they don't want to

7:55

rock the boat. But ultimately, you know,

7:57

football regulation will be a disaster. You

7:59

know, football has been successful. because it's

8:02

been unregulated. It's basically been self-regulated. And,

8:04

you know, the founding formula of the

8:06

Premier League is what built the Premier

8:08

League into what it is today. But

8:11

the Premier League is very responsible. It

8:13

actually gives lots of money to the

8:15

PFA, as you probably know. It gives

8:18

loads of money in relegation payments, and

8:20

it also spreads some money through the

8:22

lower leagues. And you talk about leads.

8:24

So what destroyed leads was Peter Rydster.

8:27

It was a fan. And although I

8:29

love football, I was a reasonably competitive

8:31

hockey player and I sort of understood,

8:33

I was a striker, I used to

8:36

like scoring goals, the Stracken said occasionally

8:38

strikers have to stand still, a good

8:40

striker stand still doesn't run around like

8:42

a headless chicken. But I think with

8:45

the problem with Parliament now, you've got

8:47

a load of fans who are MPs

8:49

who are now going to try and

8:51

regulate English football. A bit like we

8:54

had a lot of people under... Blair

8:56

and Brown who came in and decided

8:58

they were going to regulate our stock

9:00

market which at the time was one

9:03

of the most successful stock markets and

9:05

spheres for fundraising where you matched basically

9:07

people with money with people with ideas

9:09

and it worked extremely well. So we

9:12

have a wonderful timeline so we're right

9:14

in the middle of the timelines across

9:16

the world so we were booming. We

9:18

then had the FSA which morphed into

9:21

the FCA and the PRA. and they

9:23

have destroyed London as a capital centre.

9:25

I've been writing articles about it. It's

9:27

quite sad to watch it really and

9:30

I think you know the city built

9:32

up its reputation and its success on

9:34

a self-regulated entity and then the lads

9:36

come in because they think they want

9:39

to tell everybody how to run their

9:41

businesses and they want to regulate the

9:43

market and it makes me laugh when

9:45

Rachel Reeves starts talking about regulating for

9:48

growth. If ever there was an oxymoron,

9:50

it's there. Well I had my mate

9:52

here last week, so you probably know

9:54

while Steve Parrish, the Palace chairman, and

9:57

he was talking about the Premier League

9:59

as one of our great... exports. It's

10:01

one of the big success stories in

10:03

the country. The Premier League is the

10:06

most successful league in the world. It

10:08

took over, as you probably know, from

10:10

Syria, in Italy, which was again very

10:13

successful in its time, it gives us

10:15

huge soft power across the world. It

10:17

generates huge amounts of tax because when

10:19

you read of all these ridiculous salaries

10:22

that these guys now earn for doing

10:24

what they love, by the way, it's

10:26

not like they have to trog in

10:28

on the tube every day and... you

10:31

know, work extremely long hours, the training's

10:33

fun, they get adulation, they get all

10:35

sorts of sort of benefits of being

10:37

a Premier League football player. And when

10:40

they are paid 15, 20, 25, 30

10:42

million, it all goes through the payroll

10:44

and guess who takes a very large

10:46

percentage of it. Rachel. Rachel, exactly. So

10:49

destroy the golden goose and, um, or

10:51

destroy the goose and the golden eggs

10:53

will disappear. It just, it reminds me

10:55

of this question I've, I've defaulted to

10:58

when I'm discussing politics with my friends,

11:00

because I'm making this show that, yeah,

11:02

something that would come into me, I

11:04

listen to the episode, and I just,

11:07

my starting question every, every time with

11:09

everyone is, name me one thing that

11:11

government has made better. It stumps everybody.

11:13

Nothing. Nothing. You name me one thing

11:16

Boris did with an 80 seat majority,

11:18

it's the same, nothing. Nothing. In fact,

11:20

less than nothing. He presided over the

11:22

greatest influx of legal migrants in our

11:25

history. So it's disgraceful having said he'd

11:27

cut immigration. But look, I mean, the

11:29

state, all you have to do is

11:31

look at communism, central planning, statism. What

11:34

it does is it oppresses people. it

11:36

turns people into liars because in order

11:38

to survive in a statist environment you

11:40

have to learn to be a very

11:43

good liar. And when communism finally fell

11:45

after whatever it was a generation and

11:47

a half, people were shocked there was

11:49

just nothing there except people who lied

11:52

to each other because in order to

11:54

survive it had to lie. I don't

11:56

want that. I want a society where

11:58

we have vibrant challenge. We have people

12:01

basically being free to do what they

12:03

want to be able to say what

12:05

they want. I mean free speech is

12:08

the key to our society and it's

12:10

embedded into our bit of rights in

12:12

1689. and if they try and take

12:14

that away from us then we need

12:17

to revolt. We can't, we can't put

12:19

up with that. No, but we're, I

12:21

think we're fighting back, reform is fighting

12:23

back and we're giving people a platform

12:26

to be able to democratically overturn this

12:28

nonsense. That's what we've got to do.

12:30

I've just finished a five-year lawsuit for

12:32

14 tweets I put out calling a

12:35

career criminal a fraud. I spent five

12:37

years with the legal system weaponized against

12:39

me, we nearly bankrupted me. There was

12:41

a clear slap case, but we don't

12:44

have slap protection yet. It turned out

12:46

he was a career criminal and a

12:48

fraud and eventually, you know, actually I

12:50

still don't have my money back because

12:53

the courts have lost my money. So

12:55

I don't, I don't believe we do

12:57

have free speech right now because there

12:59

are tweets I think are putting out,

13:02

I think that's a bit risky. Have

13:04

I get in trouble? Yeah. who, when

13:06

Graham Suness left, Graham and I didn't

13:08

see either. I think he famously said

13:11

what was somebody with a name like

13:13

Rupert Day in football. Well, I was

13:15

there and I was his boss, so

13:17

he had to put up with it,

13:20

but he didn't stay very long after

13:22

he stayed up. So I interviewed all

13:24

these famous managers and I appointed Dave

13:26

Jones who'd beaten us in the cup.

13:29

It was managing stockboard at the time.

13:31

Great guy. always a bit dangerous to

13:33

hire a scouser but you know he

13:35

was a blue scouser not a red

13:38

scouser and I got on very well

13:40

with him but after three years he

13:42

because he'd worked in a care him

13:44

he got accused of all sorts of

13:47

horrible things which clearly weren't true he

13:49

was a very good family man great

13:51

chap and he basically was charged by

13:53

the CPS and this is to your

13:56

point about courts and lawyers because lawyers

13:58

every now and again throughout history they

14:00

get half a cut above themselves and

14:02

what you need somebody to cut them

14:05

off at the knees and get them

14:07

back down below the radar but at

14:09

the moment the law's got too big.

14:12

But with Dave I actually had to

14:14

spend him he took me to an

14:16

employment tribunal which we won because we

14:18

treated him very well but once the

14:21

CPS hitting with all these charges crown

14:23

prosecution service we had no choice. because

14:25

we had academies, young people, you know,

14:27

mothers were getting upset about what he

14:30

was accused of and everything else. We

14:32

put him, he used Kingsley Napley, so

14:34

he used a private law firm, the

14:36

people who used, you know, legal aid,

14:39

ended up, a lot of them ended

14:41

up in prison. But no, he fought

14:43

his case, and the case actually collapsed

14:45

in three days. The law cost, the

14:48

costs of the lawyers was about half

14:50

of an inquiry, and the costs were

14:52

then taxed. So he was found innocent

14:54

innocent. Because he'd because he'd used the

14:57

private lawyer, the private lawyer. They reduced

14:59

the costs by half because it was

15:01

a private lawyer. So Dave, even as

15:03

an innocent man, had to pay a

15:06

quarter of a million of costs and

15:08

the girl at the CPS who brought

15:10

the case against him, nothing happened. I

15:12

mean, she did, she was no censure.

15:15

So look, I think the organs of

15:17

the state, I'm afraid, are now unfit

15:19

for purpose and it doesn't matter which

15:21

part of the state you look at.

15:24

And I see it a lot in

15:26

all the businesses I run and everything

15:28

else. They are totally dysfunctional. they're wasting

15:30

our money and the most extraordinary thing

15:33

is what they're doing is they're taxing

15:35

in greater and greater amounts the productive

15:37

parts of our economy and they're then

15:39

distributing it to the unproductive undeserving parts

15:42

of our economy. I mean have you

15:44

ever thought or heard of anything quite

15:46

so ridiculous and on the way through

15:48

you've got all these wretched lawyers and

15:51

people like that who are port barreling

15:53

and living on the back of on

15:55

the back of our productive society which

15:57

is diminishing every day, unsurprisingly surprisingly. So

16:00

somehow we've got to, we've got... to

16:02

cut away all that. What I called

16:04

sort of spider's web of, you know,

16:07

league leagues which is holding us back

16:09

and get back to caveat empt or

16:11

get back to, you know, you and

16:13

I shaking hands doing a deal and

16:16

if you, if I come out better,

16:18

it's a deal. That's a deal. There's

16:20

no, sort of, you know, six months

16:22

later, you claim that I'd taken advantage

16:25

of you or anything else. You do

16:27

the deal, you shake your hand, you're

16:29

the principal, I'm the principal deal done.

16:31

That's how life used to life used

16:34

to work. That's how life used to

16:36

work. Well I've said to my son

16:38

on the way down we were talking

16:40

about some of the businesses we have

16:43

and I said to him, I was

16:45

talking about stealth taxes, with the businesses

16:47

we run, a bar, we're opening a

16:49

cafe, we've got the football club, we've

16:52

got this, and one of the stealth

16:54

taxes I explained was energy costs, the

16:56

reason energy costs are high, I blame

16:58

it down, to put it down to

17:01

government, that is a stealth tax on

17:03

my business tax on my business. But

17:05

the one I said about, it was

17:07

quite interesting, it was quite interesting, it

17:10

was quite interesting, it was quite interesting,

17:12

it was quite interesting, accountancy fees, accountancy

17:14

fees, accountancy fees, accountancy fees are huge,

17:16

Without taxation I don't need an accountant,

17:19

I can run the accounts of my

17:21

business. I know the numbers I need

17:23

to know, I can track them. Maybe

17:25

I have to, a bookkeeper, do the

17:28

work for me. But the pressure on

17:30

the tax system now has become a

17:32

huge burn on our business. Throwing new

17:34

regulations that we have, throwing employment laws,

17:37

it becomes almost impossible to run a

17:39

small business and make money. Well this

17:41

is where I say what's happening, what's

17:43

happening, is your killing of Britain, it's

17:46

unbelievable. But the point is, as you

17:48

quite rightly say, if you run a

17:50

business, I mean, I used to be

17:52

able to do my own tax return.

17:55

It was relatively straightforward. You know, you

17:57

could do it, fill a few boxes

17:59

in and pay your tax, everyone happy,

18:02

no accountant, or maybe cost you $500

18:04

or something to get it reviewed. Now,

18:06

with the tax manual being 21, and

18:08

a half thousand pages long, it's full

18:11

of loose ends, it's full of basically

18:13

what I would call sort of, sort

18:15

of, you know, it's open to innumerable,

18:17

innumerable enumerable interpretation, One tool says this

18:20

and another clause says that. and nobody's

18:22

ever quite certain which is a charter

18:24

for accountants to make huge amounts of

18:26

money. They've been weaponized so you pay

18:29

your accountant like me huge amounts of

18:31

money and what they really are is

18:33

a tax collector. So because what's happened

18:35

is the state has weaponized your advisor

18:38

against you and they will always take

18:40

the safe line so they're always you

18:42

always pay more tax rather than less

18:44

tax. Well they've started the oath. Exactly.

18:47

And if they get, if there is

18:49

a tax investigation and they get caught,

18:51

even with an honest mistake, even though

18:53

the government makes mistakes left, right, and

18:56

center and never judges itself, they will

18:58

be judged very harshly by HMRC. So

19:00

this is where I'm trying to explain

19:02

to the Chancellor across the chamber, I

19:05

mean the trouble is she doesn't run

19:07

a business, what she knows about business

19:09

could be written on the back of

19:11

a postage stamp, and at the end

19:14

of the day, none of these people

19:16

have had real life experience, garbage. But

19:18

you've got not any HMRC against you,

19:20

you've got a raft of other government

19:23

departments against you, and you've got a

19:25

headwind that people are fighting against. And

19:27

with all these rules, regulations, health and

19:29

safety issues, if you run any business

19:32

in farming like me or contracting like

19:34

me, you have all this stuff where

19:36

you've, as a board, you've got huge

19:38

legal liability now. In a way, we're

19:41

doing everything we can to kill productive,

19:43

innovative Britain, and then hand it out

19:45

to people who aren't contributing. I mean,

19:47

isn't that bizarre? Well, we have the

19:50

worst bosses, if you look at it.

19:52

Nine million people of working age are

19:54

not working. And how many taxpayers are

19:57

leaving? I mean, I bet within your

19:59

circles you've got many friends who have

20:01

said I've had enough, I'm gone. I

20:03

can tell you right now as we

20:06

sit here, two and a two and

20:08

a half thousand people queuing to get

20:10

into Dubai. Italy, Greece, Portugal. They're going,

20:12

they're leaving Britain, so we're losing our

20:15

best people, we're losing the kingmakers. and

20:17

what you need, you need the kingmakers,

20:19

you need the risk takers, you need

20:21

people who are actually dynamic, who have

20:24

the energy to go and actually make

20:26

things happen. And this is a problem

20:28

with this country. If you're successful, people

20:30

don't respect that. They actually dislike it.

20:33

Well, why? In America, you're applauded to

20:35

some who's got energy and as long

20:37

as you've made it honestly and you've

20:39

provided a structure for other people to

20:42

live as they want to live. What's

20:44

wrong with that? It's great. It's great.

20:46

It's great. It's what you want. I

20:48

think you don't want the state. What

20:51

you want is a load of high-minded

20:53

individuals making the right decisions and that

20:55

drives the economy. The last thing you

20:57

want is a flabby bunch of losers,

21:00

which is what we've now got, who

21:02

basically hold everybody back. We don't need

21:04

that. I think there's a good side

21:06

to tall Poppy syndrome amongst your group

21:09

of friends. You know, if you've been

21:11

successful, they try and hold, yeah, they

21:13

try to keep you in check and

21:15

not turning into a bit of a

21:18

bit of a bit of a bit

21:20

of a bit of a bit of

21:22

a dick. But I think outside of

21:24

that in terms of business, I think

21:27

we have a political system which is

21:29

demonized wealth. It's demonized success. We have

21:31

a tall poppy syndrome. You see it

21:33

when people debate in politics. They should

21:36

pay their fair share. People who don't

21:38

really understand the reality of life where

21:40

there is a laugh a curve. And

21:42

so to me it's really sad. It's

21:45

really sad that people who just want

21:47

to get out there, want to work,

21:49

want to build something, are attacked constantly

21:51

by the state. In two ways, they're

21:54

attacked for their success and demonised for

21:56

their success, but they're taxed for their

21:58

success in terms of the income they've

22:01

generated. It's like this Labour Party wants

22:03

it both ways. Well then they take

22:05

it off you when you die. Yeah.

22:07

So they get you again. Sorry, Khan.

22:10

So no, I like small state. individuals.

22:12

I mean, the founding fathers of America

22:14

were the men to watch, you know,

22:16

Madison, Adams, Jefferson. They were the people

22:19

who wrote the American Constitution. They actually...

22:21

threw off the fetters of Britain. And

22:23

we played our cards very badly. They

22:25

went to, I used it in the

22:28

House the other day about these wretched

22:30

council elections that they're trying to delay

22:32

because they think they know reform is

22:34

going to win. So I said, well,

22:37

the Americans actually fought a war of

22:39

independence on the slogan, no taxation without

22:41

representation. So tell me, after May, when

22:43

these people aren't elected, do we have

22:46

to pay our council tax? Question one.

22:48

And question two is, what do we

22:50

call these unelected counselors? So, you know,

22:52

they get all very fashed up about

22:55

the fact that, you know, well, it's

22:57

very sort of inflammatory language. Well, it's

22:59

not at all. We should have local

23:01

elections. People should be democratically represented. And

23:04

if they're not, there's always a danger.

23:06

that we get some form of totalitarian

23:08

sort of, you know, central planning, which

23:10

damages all of us. But I really

23:13

don't like the way Britain's gone. I,

23:15

you know, when I was brought up,

23:17

I think, so I was born in

23:19

57, pretty much post-war, I think everybody

23:22

had had two world wars in Europe,

23:24

two wars in Europe, world wars, they

23:26

just wanted to live their lives, they

23:28

wanted to all, you know, they respected

23:31

each other, they wanted freedom, they wanted

23:33

peace. And I do know I think

23:35

what's happened is, and it happens throughout

23:37

history, as Churchill said, the father you

23:40

look back, the father forward you can

23:42

see, ultimately, you know, people forget very

23:44

quickly, and I think people have forgotten

23:46

what it was like after we'd thrown

23:49

off, in that case it was Nazi

23:51

Germany and totalitarianism that way. Lattily then

23:53

it was communism we threw off. Again,

23:56

another form of totalitarianism. And what we

23:58

mustn't ever do is forget how fragile

24:00

our freedom is. And what we've done

24:02

is I think we've forgotten that. And

24:05

actually, it's been gradually... taken away from

24:07

us because we're not fighting for it

24:09

enough. And I hope people will stand

24:11

up now and start to fight. It's

24:14

very encouraging, you know, that today I

24:16

was on the tube and some chat

24:18

came up to me and said, are

24:20

you, Rupert, though? I said, yeah. He

24:23

said, well, I'm 26 and I really

24:25

love what you're doing. And I said,

24:27

well, that's very kind of you. And

24:29

the young people are saying it. They

24:32

need, they want their freedom. And I

24:34

want their freedom. And I think. There

24:36

is no chance with the uni party,

24:38

as I call it, the reds and

24:41

the blues in Parliament. They are two

24:43

cheeks of the same backside, as George

24:45

Galloway said, and they are not going

24:47

to lead us to the promised land.

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or what's your reason do you think

27:05

the young people are coming to you?

27:07

Connor, they're 20 years old, is a

27:09

perfect example. Why do you think they're

27:12

coming? Well, because we stand for change,

27:14

and we need change from outside Parliament,

27:16

so Parliament has become moribund. So what

27:18

happened is, first of all, Tony Blair

27:21

and I call them the sort of,

27:23

you know, Blair Brown, Campbell, Mandelson, and

27:25

Derry Irving. They're certainly not the famous

27:27

five, I'd call them the line five.

27:30

They introduced a load of legislation which

27:32

effectively empowered the state, empowered Quangos and

27:34

undermined Parliament. So they took power from,

27:36

Parliament's supposed to be omnipotence, so the

27:39

elected members of Parliament is supposed to

27:41

basically make the decisions, everything's supposed to

27:43

go to Parliament, but now it doesn't.

27:45

it all goes through these quangos that

27:48

cost billions or hundreds of billions of

27:50

pounds a year to run. And they've

27:52

taken power away, they're not elected by

27:55

the way. At least trust, it'll be

27:57

the same thing. It started with then.

27:59

I mean, I don't even take John

28:01

Major seriously. So Maggie, you know, when

28:04

John Major took over, he... then won

28:06

an election which he should never have

28:08

won. He had a soapbox. He used

28:10

to carry around. You're probably too young

28:13

to remember. No, I know. I listened

28:15

to his interview recently. But he carried

28:17

this wretched soapbox around. He should have

28:19

lost Neil Kinnock should have won. But

28:22

anyway, he won by 15 seats, I

28:24

think. And he was a disaster job

28:26

measure. I mean, he didn't have enough

28:28

time to do any damage. So by

28:31

97 when Blair got in and we

28:33

got all the old, you know, you

28:35

know, things can only get better, Tony

28:37

Blair and tears, Tony Blair and tears

28:40

outside, outside, outside, outside, outside, outside, outside,

28:42

outside, the face of labor evil as

28:44

I call him. You know, he was

28:46

there as well. At the end of

28:49

the day, these guys, they changed Britain.

28:51

So we got the Human Rights Act,

28:53

we got the Equalities Act, we got

28:55

the bribery Act, which they started, actually

28:58

the Tories finished it off. Then we

29:00

got the coalition, Cameron and Clegg, I

29:02

mean, do I either of them know

29:04

what they are? Does Clegg believe he's

29:07

a Lib Dem and does Cameron believe

29:09

he's a Tory? I think... there were

29:11

probably something in the middle between them.

29:13

But Cameron then hollowed out the Tory

29:16

party, so you had the Labour Party

29:18

selection processes were changed and they used

29:20

basically quotas, you know, not merit. So

29:22

merit got chucked out of the window

29:25

and it was quotas and whether they

29:27

were sexual or whether they were color,

29:29

race, whatever, they wanted to try and

29:31

sort of put together a representative piece

29:34

of cake. And it should always be

29:36

based on merit. It doesn't matter who

29:38

you are, if you've got... the merit,

29:40

if you're able to do the job,

29:43

and you're the best person to do

29:45

the job, you should get the job.

29:47

I don't think there should be any

29:50

other yardstick. But what they've done is

29:52

they've hollowed out Parliament. So I think,

29:54

looking at it, and I shouldn't be

29:56

having to do this, I'm 67 years

29:59

old, I look at Parliament and it's

30:01

just dysfunctional. And with the help of

30:03

my team, and I've got a great

30:05

team, one of... whom is here today,

30:08

we've been asking questions because we thought...

30:10

You've been upset enough. We've asked a

30:12

lot of questions. We don't get answers

30:14

to all of them because they don't

30:17

like, they don't answer the ones, they

30:19

don't, which are so shocking. But do

30:21

you know what I think? I actually

30:23

think, and I look at the ministers

30:26

when I ask these questions across the

30:28

chamber when we get the answers, I

30:30

think the front bench ministers know the

30:32

answers, because of 26 of them, any

30:35

three of business experience. I would personally...

30:37

disregard is irrelevant, but they say they've

30:39

got some business experience, you know, whether

30:41

it's running a PR company or some

30:44

other bullshit. But the fact is, they

30:46

don't know what's going on. So what's

30:48

supposed to happen is the ministers are

30:50

supposed to hold the civil service to

30:53

account, as Maggie said, advisers advise, but

30:55

ministers decide. That's not what's happening. So

30:57

the civil service is because become this

30:59

self-serving sort of body, which is far

31:02

too many of them. They're far too

31:04

infected with all the sort of wokery

31:06

and the DUI and all the other

31:08

garbage that's now, you know, infesting Britain.

31:11

And they are, they know the facts,

31:13

but I think I look at, for

31:15

instance, Yvette Cooper's face when we ask

31:17

these questions, and I think, you didn't

31:20

know the answer to that, did you?

31:22

Well, they haven't looked themselves. I don't

31:24

think they know themselves, and all they're

31:26

interested in doing is... skating over the

31:29

surface. Meanwhile, the civil services legs are

31:31

paddling away underneath, doing exactly what they

31:33

want, because they're not being held to

31:35

account. So I think, not only is

31:38

government too big, it's actually now, malign.

31:40

I actually think it is not doing

31:42

what it should be doing, serving the

31:45

people. I actually think it's working against

31:47

the people. That's my view. But why

31:49

do you think young people, because I've

31:51

got two reasons why I think young

31:54

people are coming to reform, but I'm

31:56

wondering why you think... Do you want

31:58

to stay... with that moribund mess, I

32:00

mean look I'm old enough I can

32:03

probably I can probably scrabble through

32:05

for the next 15 or 20 years and

32:07

it's not to affect me but these guys

32:09

these these people can't young young young men

32:11

and women can't get on the housing ladder

32:13

they see the old baby boomers living in

32:15

all the best addresses they're getting their

32:17

pensions they're having to work harder and

32:20

harder to pay for these very rich

32:22

baby boomers pensions which they've got which

32:24

as we know the state pensions

32:26

of fraud is a put-and-and-takeake scheme

32:28

It's already gone up from 65 to

32:30

67 and it's going to go on up.

32:32

So by the time they come to retire,

32:34

the chances are probably more like

32:37

75. Because if you have a

32:39

put-and-take scheme, actuarily you cannot. You

32:41

can pay while you've got the

32:44

baby booms paying in and you've

32:46

got less people retiring, less people

32:48

working. You either have to put up

32:51

what goes in, which is putting

32:53

up national insurance, or you have

32:55

to extend... that the retirement age so or

32:57

extend it beyond where it is at the moment.

32:59

I think there's another reason by the way.

33:02

So I actually think all of the all of

33:04

the dynamics are against the young and if

33:06

you if that's the case you might as well

33:08

vote for change. You've got nothing to lose. I

33:10

think there's another reason is that you're talking

33:12

to them as well. So I can follow

33:14

you on Twitter and you follow me back

33:16

and I can send you a message and

33:18

you say and you come in here and

33:20

have this conversation. No Halse Bard, you haven't

33:22

really asked for questions in advance, I can

33:24

ask you anything and you're just going to

33:26

sit here and answer and you're going to

33:28

talk to them. And that's going to go

33:30

out onto the platforms there watching, my son

33:32

isn't watching Sky News, he's not watching News

33:34

Night, he's on Twitter and he's seeing clips

33:36

and he's listened to podcast and so he's

33:38

friends. Sky's now owned by Comcast, another, another

33:40

woke organisation. But trying to get anyone from

33:42

the Labour of the Conservative Party onto a

33:44

podcast, you have to go through handlers, you

33:47

have to go through PR teams, and it's

33:49

so hard to get them to talk because

33:51

I think they're so scared of talking publicly

33:53

because they're so scared of losing their seat.

33:55

I can contact Nigel, I've had Richard

33:57

Tyson here, it's very easy to contact.

34:00

reform and have no holds bad

34:02

conversation and you talk to them

34:04

directly in their language and about

34:06

the problems they're seeing without fear.

34:08

And so the distance between you and

34:10

a voter like Connor, well at the

34:12

moment, it's a matter of feet, but

34:15

generally it's a lot smaller than the

34:17

distance between the front bench of the

34:19

Conservative and the Labour Party. They aren't

34:21

really talking to the voters. They are

34:24

talking to the interviewers from the corporations.

34:26

and that's a big difference. Well they

34:28

are and they're serving themselves, that's the

34:30

difference. So you know I'm fortunate, I've

34:33

been reasonably successful and I don't need the

34:35

92,000 pound parliamentary salary. You give it

34:37

to charity. I give it to a

34:39

great younger charities, although this month we've

34:42

made an exception and we've given it

34:44

to Maggie Oliver who's been doing a

34:46

lot for these grooming gangs, which... Look,

34:48

I obviously we'd all heard of it.

34:50

I call them Pakistani rape gangs, which

34:53

reduces people on the other side of

34:55

the chamber to tears, because they say

34:57

it's bald language, which isn't necessary. Well,

34:59

I think it is necessary. And I

35:02

think it's a stain on the country

35:04

that we haven't dealt with it. And

35:06

there are people who basically who should

35:09

have been brought to book, not just

35:11

the perpetrators, but also the people who

35:13

presided over. You know, the police, the

35:15

courts, the local councillors, basically social services,

35:18

everybody who's turned a blind eye to

35:20

this. And whether they've turned a blind eye

35:22

to it, because you know, you've got Sharia

35:24

courts now and you can just forget about,

35:26

you know, let them get on with it,

35:29

which again, there should be no Sharia courts

35:31

in this country. They should all disappear. Come

35:33

and live here, you live by our laws.

35:35

92 of them, Sharia court, disgrace, got

35:38

to go. And what we need

35:40

is we need people integrating people

35:42

integrating. or they go home. We don't

35:44

need basically isolated

35:46

communities running their own

35:48

show in the middle of our

35:51

country. That doesn't work for me.

35:53

If you want to come here,

35:55

you know, live by our rules,

35:57

live by our laws, integrate. That's

35:59

fine. and contribute and there are

36:01

many people who do that but there

36:03

are quite a growing number of people

36:06

who don't so look I think the

36:08

grooming gangs we give it to that

36:10

otherwise we give it to Great Yarmouth

36:13

which is again my constituency I I

36:15

went east I'm not from Great Yarmouth

36:17

I'm actually from Oxford I'm not Oxford

36:20

boy I was at the Dragon School

36:22

and then Radley I'm a Redding boy.

36:24

Are you, well, well, well, well, well,

36:27

we're at Thames Valley Boys. Yeah, but

36:29

I actually live in Bedford, but my

36:31

whole lot. You're a Tem Valley, you're

36:34

a Thames Valley boy then. Yeah. So,

36:36

but no, so I, we give it

36:38

each month to a different great-yard charity.

36:41

So, Labour have made it quite easy,

36:43

quite easy, quite easy, they've made it

36:45

quite easy, charity, to give it to,

36:48

because Labour's been... damaging the interests of

36:50

most of Britain. The incentives when you're

36:52

an MP who doesn't need the salary

36:55

must be very very different from somebody

36:57

who is trying to establish their career

36:59

because you can operate without, I mean,

37:02

excuse my language, but given a far

37:04

correctly, you don't need the money, you

37:06

don't need the career, you want what's

37:09

right for the country. Well I think

37:11

that's what Parliament probably used to be.

37:13

I think you had a group of

37:16

people who were... like-minded, they'd probably been

37:18

successful, they were well respected in their

37:20

area, well known in their area, so

37:23

there you had an almost sort of

37:25

a self-policing mechanism because people, if they

37:27

weren't good men, they didn't get put

37:30

into the position where they were the

37:32

member of Parliament. People argue that, you

37:34

know, it meant privileged people and rich

37:36

people got into Parliament, but... If you

37:39

look at the Lords, and I don't

37:41

have the answer on the Lords, I

37:43

don't agree with all this Lord's bashing.

37:46

I think there are some very capable

37:48

people in the Lords. And as you

37:50

probably know, the way we were structured,

37:53

our Constitution is unwritten. So post the

37:55

Civil War, you basically had the king

37:57

as your titular head. had Parliament as

38:00

the omnipotent body, as I said earlier,

38:02

and then you had the Lords who

38:04

provided guidance to the Commons, and actually

38:07

in the Lords you had these hereditary

38:09

peers who, you know, do read a

38:11

lot of the legislation, who do check

38:14

the legislation and who are effectively a

38:16

backstop on bad and maligned legislation getting

38:18

through the House of Commons. So there

38:21

was a certain logic to it, but...

38:23

As you know, I mean, there's the

38:25

talk of getting away with the Lords.

38:28

They've already got away with a lot,

38:30

they've got rid of a lot of

38:32

it, and now they're talking about getting

38:35

rid of the rest of the hereditary's,

38:37

and ultimately in the end changing the

38:39

way in which that chamber operates. Now,

38:42

I think that I'm far more important

38:44

things to be doing as far as

38:46

reforming the country goes than having a

38:49

go of the Lords. I mean, whatever

38:51

one views of the Lords, but I...

38:53

If I was young I would be

38:56

voting for change I and I look

38:58

I'm delighted Connor's reform voter oh no

39:00

I don't know if he is yet

39:03

I'm not going to answer for him

39:05

but yeah well he may be never

39:07

voted he's never voted yeah well again

39:10

you've got to start taking some responsibility

39:12

one man one vote you don't vote

39:14

you can't you can't blame the the

39:16

people in Parliament for getting it wrong.

39:19

Well, the interesting thing is I think,

39:21

I don't know what it's like on

39:23

the inside, but the overton window on

39:26

reform has changed usually. For you, go

39:28

back just a few years. It was

39:30

in quiet circles, you would whisper if

39:33

you were considering voting for reform. I

39:35

think there was kind of a view

39:37

probably caused by the media that, well,

39:40

you must be a Brexit idiot or

39:42

you must be right wing or a

39:44

bit of a racist. But I think

39:47

the media attacks are failing now on

39:49

attacking reform. And I think the likes

39:51

of yourself and Richard and Nigel and

39:54

the other members, what you've done in

39:56

terms of focusing on policy, has been

39:58

really good. much so that you had

40:01

the UGov Sky News poll yesterday that

40:03

for the first time put reform parties

40:05

the front runner at 25% which I

40:08

think is really interesting because the trajectory

40:10

is now it's not like you are

40:12

a viable legitimate opposition. So I mean

40:15

I could ask you do you think

40:17

you're going to win the next section?

40:19

I know you're going to say you

40:22

will. I've said it for a while.

40:24

I mean, my friends used to laugh

40:26

at me when I said I was

40:29

going to win a seat for reform.

40:31

I stood in Kingswood and we got

40:33

10.4%. I actually said originally for the

40:36

referendum party because I got a thing

40:38

in my, being my bonnet about losing

40:40

the pound, which would have been the

40:43

end of Britain if we'd lost the

40:45

pound in 97. And Jimmy Goldsmith never

40:47

gets the credit for, he spent, I

40:49

think, 50 million pounds, and a lot

40:52

of the material we produced in 97.

40:54

It was the same as the material

40:56

we ended up almost producing for the

40:59

vote leave campaign. It just changed, you

41:01

know, from basically losing your currency to

41:03

losing your sovereignty. And it was, in

41:06

the end, he funded it. We, we,

41:08

that's why we had the referendum. So

41:10

he actually, the three parties before 90,

41:13

the 97 election, I got 6.6% in

41:15

the cotswalls in where I live. I

41:17

mean, most of them are bonehead Tories,

41:20

that you put a monkey in blue

41:22

clothing and put him up, he'd get

41:24

elected. I mean, there's a man called

41:27

Jeffrey Clifton Brown, who's our local MP,

41:29

who's been in Parliament forever, who I

41:31

see now in Parliament. So, you know,

41:34

it moved from saving the pound and

41:36

then I think, I think at the

41:38

end of the day, I said we'd

41:41

win a seat, I have won a

41:43

seat, with the help with the good

41:45

people of great yarmes, who I now

41:48

have a very good relationship with, who

41:50

I now have a very good relationship

41:52

with. But I've said for a while

41:55

we're going to win the election. We

41:57

have to win the election, because if

41:59

we don't win the election, I'm not

42:02

sure we can rescue the country now,

42:04

but if we have a... another period

42:06

of the unit party beyond 29, then

42:09

I think the country will self-immolate. I

42:11

think it's on a catastrophic course. I'm

42:13

expecting our currency to collapse at any

42:16

stage. Our economies, I think, are going

42:18

to become very weak. There's no confidence,

42:20

no investment. Why would you invest in

42:22

the moment? It's getting much weaker. So

42:25

I think we are going to win

42:27

the election. We have moved, as you

42:29

say, the Overton window because we've got

42:32

into Parliament. That's the key move of

42:34

reform, I think. Until we got into

42:36

Parliament, nobody saw us in the chamber.

42:39

Nobody saw that we were talking common

42:41

sense. And for people who say we

42:43

haven't got any policies, I say to

42:46

them, go and read our contract with

42:48

the people and then come back and

42:50

tell me. whether you think our policies

42:53

make sense or not. Well, again, you've

42:55

got a grip of the media. And

42:57

they do, they come back and they

43:00

go, that's a great document. I get,

43:02

all we are is the common sense

43:04

party. We just want the return of

43:07

common sense. But you've got a grip

43:09

of the media as well, because you

43:11

have to have a grip of the

43:14

media, because if you're not dictating the

43:16

media or dictate what people think about

43:18

you. Well, yes, but I haven't. I

43:21

haven't, and my mistake at Southampton if

43:23

I made one was I assumed people

43:25

would watch what the hands were doing,

43:28

not what the mouth was saying, so

43:30

I didn't do much media. I actually

43:32

hardly appeared in the media. I thought

43:35

my job was to basically structure the

43:37

football club correctly, make the right decisions

43:39

and build up the youth academy, which

43:42

is why I actually enjoyed far more

43:44

than the first team. I mean, I

43:46

always thought the first team were... slightly

43:49

sort of billy big bollocks and the

43:51

the the youth academy you know we

43:53

I bought a hotel we structured it

43:55

we turned out because you can't win

43:58

anything with bad people so you have

44:00

to get good people and we got

44:02

some very good people you look at

44:05

Gareth Bale and you look at Theo

44:07

walk out and you look at a

44:09

lot of the boys you came to

44:12

our academy they're very good people even

44:14

the ones who didn't make it know

44:16

the Lloyd James and the Andrew sermons

44:19

they're very clever decent people who've been

44:21

brought up properly. So I think, I

44:23

mean I think on that score, you

44:26

know, reform, reform has to win. We

44:28

have to win. How though? Because... Well

44:30

we will, we're going to win. The

44:33

question then is we have to have

44:35

a plan when we've won. Well I

44:37

think you have to plan to win

44:40

as well because you need hundreds of

44:42

seats. If we win we have to

44:44

have a plan, and the plan has

44:47

to be quite radical and the plan

44:49

has to involve knowing exactly what we're

44:51

going to do and how we're going

44:54

to do it immediately. So if you

44:56

look at Donald Trump is your metric

44:58

on that, so Donald Trump, first time

45:01

round he had whatever it was 15

45:03

people ready to go when he got

45:05

elected because nobody believed who's going to

45:08

win when he won, and then he

45:10

didn't, you know, and running a country,

45:12

as you know it's hard enough running

45:15

a company, let alone a country, but

45:17

you know, running a country, he didn't

45:19

know what to do. But a bit

45:22

like Maggie, as she got elected more

45:24

and more, she worked at how much

45:26

power she had. And actually you have

45:29

more power here than you have, because

45:31

we've had an unwritten constitution than you

45:33

have in America, where they have a

45:35

written constitution. But the second time around,

45:38

now he's won. How many people do

45:40

you think he had ready to go?

45:42

I understand he had three and a

45:45

half thousand people ready to go day

45:47

one, and look what he's not messing

45:49

about. So he's the model, but we

45:52

haven't got the luxury probably of two

45:54

election victories. So we have to make

45:56

it count on the first victory. We

45:59

have to have a plan. We have

46:01

to have a structure. And this is

46:03

what, and we have to have the

46:06

right people in Parliament, and we have

46:08

to have proper leadership and proper organisation.

46:10

And if we're exposed in any way,

46:13

it is the fact that we've got

46:15

a huge job to do to refine

46:17

our policy. which to me is absolutely

46:20

essential and that's our policy across the

46:22

board how we deal with it constitutionally

46:24

to how we deal with each of

46:27

the policy areas and and obviously the

46:29

overriding theme will be common sense and

46:31

less government, but we then have to

46:34

have a properly structured party that functions

46:36

correctly because I don't, it won't be

46:38

an easy ride and people, you know,

46:41

bit like a drug addict when you

46:43

come off drugs, it can be pretty

46:45

unpleasant and I think this country has

46:48

got used to. a welfare state that

46:50

basically is completely out of control. And

46:52

that emanates from the post-war era where

46:55

we had, you know, the genesis of

46:57

the welfare state, the genesis of the

46:59

NHS. And by the way, the NHS

47:02

needs total reform. It's dysfunctional. And it's

47:04

a huge elephant on all our backs.

47:06

It's actually a fraud, as I've said

47:08

in the past, you know, I don't

47:11

know about you, but I... we can't

47:13

get a doctor's appointment. We have a

47:15

private doctor, we have a private doctor,

47:18

we have a private doctor, so we're

47:20

all paying our national insurance but we're

47:22

actually outsourcing our medical treatment. That's a

47:25

fraud. You or I did that in

47:27

the private sector, what would they do?

47:29

The regulator be all over you like

47:32

a cheap suit. So, but they don't

47:34

apply the same rules themselves because it's

47:36

free they say no it's not free.

47:39

You pay your national insurance, that's not

47:41

free, it's costinging a fortune. tax pot.

47:43

It's like the roads, your road tax

47:46

goes into the tax pot, why do

47:48

you think we've got so many potholes?

47:50

So, you know, look, the state is,

47:53

it's, it's, it's malign, it's, it's our

47:55

enemy, it should be serving us, but

47:57

it's our enemy, that's what's happened. So

48:00

if, when, when you win, I've just

48:02

told you, that's the biggest challenge now,

48:04

and Zia Yusuf, who I don't know,

48:07

well, he's been brought in to bring

48:09

that structure to bring that structure to...

48:11

get it all properly set up so

48:14

that we actually do have functioning selection

48:16

of our our candidates. That's the first

48:18

thing to do. So I find that

48:21

strange that you say you don't know

48:23

him that well. Well I, I, I,

48:25

we're. so busy, I mean doing our

48:28

own thing in Parliament and things, have

48:30

you ever tried to sit in Parliament

48:32

and get a question or make a

48:35

statement? I don't know how parable was.

48:37

Give a speech, well let me tell

48:39

you, the one thing that the Labour

48:41

Party has got is they control the

48:44

agenda in Parliament. Is it true? So

48:46

sometimes when you see me speaking, I've

48:48

had to sit on my backside in

48:51

the chamber for five hours to get

48:53

that speech or get that question or

48:55

get that statement, whatever. They can change,

48:58

they can put in a ministerial statement,

49:00

they can put in an urgent question,

49:02

they can do whatever they want, and

49:05

they can change the agenda. So I

49:07

had an MHRA debate with Estimate Vé.

49:09

The government, again, they have COVID response

49:12

of Boris and his lot, and both

49:14

parties, really, all the parties, Lib Dems

49:16

as well, were shocking. I mean, I'm

49:19

not jabbed, I, that experimental nonsense that

49:21

these young people didn't need, was a

49:23

joke. And... but it was very hard

49:26

to avoid it. So I think the

49:28

whole COVID response was a scam. They

49:30

wasted 400 billion of our money. A

49:33

lot of it's been fraudulently spent on,

49:35

you know, bounce back loans, I'll never

49:37

collect back, and the whole thing's a

49:40

huge scandal. So we had the debate,

49:42

the MHRA debate, they don't want that

49:44

debate, and now we've got COVID-damaged people

49:47

coming forward. So there's at least, you

49:49

know, I think it's half a half

49:51

a million people have come forward, you

49:54

know, you know, with... complaints of myocarditis,

49:56

strokes, whatever it is, you know, lots

49:58

of, lots of things, and I think

50:01

they'll probably that'll increase because I think

50:03

it was a very damaging experimental jab,

50:05

both obvious, as a zenica, Madonna, and

50:08

Pfizer. However, they were able, we were

50:10

supposed to have a three-hour debate, we

50:12

got a backbench business debate, and all

50:15

scheduled three hours, suddenly. There's an urgent

50:17

statement on a Thursday, highly unusual. Then

50:19

there's a debate on, I think it

50:21

was... a gay members of the military

50:24

or something where 25 people wanted to

50:26

speak. So suddenly, we didn't have time

50:28

to do our debate, so it's put

50:31

off deferred. Until one. Until another date.

50:33

We have had it now. Supposed to

50:35

be three hours on the following day.

50:38

We were supposed to be the first

50:40

debate. Then suddenly again, it gets telescoped.

50:42

So I had three speeches in my

50:45

pocket. I had a 12 minutes, an

50:47

eight minutes, and a five minute. Which

50:49

one do you think I ended up

50:52

having? So you didn't get to have

50:54

the proper debate? We didn't get to

50:56

have the proper debate because they didn't

50:59

want the debate and this is the

51:01

power of a government that basically can

51:03

control the parliamentary agenda. And whilst I

51:06

like Sir Lindsay very much I think

51:08

he's an extremely good speaker, he is

51:10

a Labour MP and he does rely

51:13

on the goodwill of the Labour Party

51:15

to remain a speaker. How do you

51:17

reform that though because that starts to

51:20

feel undemocratic? Well my view is it

51:22

should be a... an independent role, so

51:24

a bit like a chairman's role. And

51:27

I did go and see him, because

51:29

as you probably watch, you know, and

51:31

people can watch the Prime Minister's questions,

51:34

do you think they'll answer the question?

51:36

No, not at all. They just give

51:38

us some verbal baby food and sit

51:41

down again. Now if you're a good

51:43

chairman, you'd say, I said, I went

51:45

and sortedly, and I said, either, you

51:48

should intervene as chairman and say you

51:50

haven't answered the question, please answer the

51:52

question, otherwise parliament's not functioning, not functioning,

51:54

functioning properly. Or you have to give

51:57

the MPs, ask the question, the right

51:59

of reply, to say you haven't answered

52:01

my question. Please answer my question. But

52:04

you can't just let it pass, otherwise

52:06

it brings Parliament into disrepute. I think

52:08

it does. Parliament, you know, if you're

52:11

asked a question in a court of

52:13

law and you don't answer it, what

52:15

do they do? They keep going until

52:18

you do answer it. You're required to

52:20

answer it. Is it true with Southport,

52:22

you were blocked from asking certain questions

52:25

and questions as well? Parliament opened that

52:27

we were not allowed to ask a

52:29

question about the Southport issue because it

52:32

was to say and it was a

52:34

legal matter. That was what we were

52:36

told by the Speaker at the evening

52:39

of Parliament. But as you probably know,

52:41

we did stand up and we did

52:43

try and do our bit to make

52:46

sure that the policemen involved who I

52:48

think behaved very well were treated properly

52:50

and I think there has now been

52:53

progress made on that but it was...

52:55

it was very slow and arguably it

52:57

wasn't handled in the way I think

53:00

it should have been handled. I mean

53:02

personally I haven't watched the video footage

53:04

of it. I think the people who

53:07

broke the police laid his nose and

53:09

who were violent were very lucky not

53:11

to have been shot and I think

53:14

the police showed huge restraint in not

53:16

doing that. I do want to get

53:18

back to the things that reform will

53:21

do when, if when, they win. But

53:23

actually there's another question. Because I started

53:25

to think about what is, I wanted

53:27

to ask you, what is the role

53:30

of government and I will ask you

53:32

that. But actually, what are we going

53:34

to do? The most important thing is

53:37

the Great Repeal Act followed by national

53:39

restoration. That's what we're going to do.

53:41

No, but before that also, actually, what

53:44

is the role of the electorate? You

53:46

know, you talked, we talk about the

53:48

role of government, but actually democracy requires

53:51

us as the electorate. Well, I say

53:53

this to people, I said, you can't

53:55

rely on five of five of us

53:58

in Parliament, five of us in Parliament,

54:00

five of us in Parliament, in Parliament,

54:02

in Parliament, to do it, to do

54:05

it, to do it, to do it,

54:07

to do it, to do it, to

54:09

do it, to do it, to do

54:12

it, You've got to stand up, and

54:14

I've said it on Twitter, you know,

54:16

if you don't agree with what your

54:19

local council is doing, challenge. If you

54:21

don't agree with anything you see from

54:23

either local or national government, challenge, challenge,

54:26

challenge, challenge. If you, if you in

54:28

true English or British style, you just

54:30

accept it, it's going to carry on.

54:33

But I do think it's a very

54:35

good question. I do think people need

54:37

to stand up now, because we're not.

54:40

We're not sort of, you know, Charles

54:42

Atlas, we can't, we can't carry the

54:44

whole world with us, what we need

54:47

is other people, to start challenging as

54:49

well. And we're challenging in Parliament, you

54:51

know, we've now got the bridgehead and

54:54

we can build on that and people

54:56

can now see that, you know, with

54:58

some common sense and some people with

55:00

experience. the right questions can be asked.

55:03

But people can't just sit there and

55:05

expect life to change unless they fight

55:07

for it. I mean, how many things

55:10

have you achieved without fighting for them?

55:12

Not many. Whatever my father gave me.

55:14

But I think we've kind of seen

55:17

it with... with the various rights. I

55:19

don't think that, I think sometimes the

55:21

riots have been an outlet for years

55:24

of frustration that have bubbled up with

55:26

certain instances against Southport rights. I think

55:28

we're a combination of issues that came

55:31

together where people are just angry. And

55:33

I feel like the nation, I don't

55:35

know if you sense this from inside

55:38

Parliament, but I feel like we're fragile

55:40

now and anything could trigger the public

55:42

to another bout of riots or protests.

55:45

Do you think the public's got the

55:47

right to protest if they're not happy?

55:49

And as long as it's done peacefully,

55:52

I don't think that there should be

55:54

any reason they shouldn't show their displeasure.

55:56

I mean, you know, when I don't

55:59

know about you, but I'm a keen

56:01

country sportsman. I do lots of things

56:03

I have a farm and I love

56:06

the countryside. I don't personally hunt, which

56:08

I know is one of the things

56:10

that creates huge division. But I do

56:13

shoot and I do fish and I

56:15

participate in country sports. And when Tony

56:17

Blair tried to ban Fox hunting, which

56:20

again in my view is anti-democratic, we

56:22

all, I mean a million of us

56:24

marched, came up to London at the

56:27

weekend and we marched peacefully through the

56:29

streets to show that we didn't approve

56:31

of that. And we shouldn't have to

56:34

do that because it shows governments not

56:36

functioning when that happens. I actually got

56:38

caught in a protest yesterday from the

56:40

lads in their white vans with whom

56:43

I had a lot of sympathy. complaining

56:45

about the fact that their tools are

56:47

being stolen out of their vans and

56:50

nobody's doing anything about it. Kept me

56:52

sitting outside parliament for about 20 minutes

56:54

and, you know, they were blocking Parliament

56:57

Square. So I think people should make,

56:59

like the farmers, I encourage the farmers,

57:01

keep turning the heat up, turn the

57:04

buns. and up slowly, don't do anything

57:06

illegal, but make your presence felt. Don't

57:08

just let this Labour government break the

57:11

backbone of British farming, break the backbone

57:13

of British small businesses. Don't accept that.

57:15

And what they're doing is a scam.

57:18

And it's not based on any logic

57:20

or fairness. It's based on envy and

57:22

basically, you know, horrible Labour can't, which

57:25

is nonsense. And I did go and

57:27

see Daniel's items to try and... a

57:29

talk reason with him, but after 20

57:32

minutes he looked in the eye and

57:34

he said, Rupert I just want you

57:36

to know that I think very often

57:39

the public sector is more efficient than

57:41

the private sector. So I said to

57:43

him, well if you think that Daniel

57:46

I'm leaving and I got out and

57:48

walked out, absolutely complete waste of time

57:50

trying to reason with people like that.

57:53

Well, a lot of people don't really

57:55

understand that it is the private sector

57:57

that funds the public sector drives everything.

58:00

Yeah. Public sector is a deadweight. It

58:02

is non-productive. It is a cost. It

58:04

is a cost. the private sector is

58:07

driven by the profit motive and it

58:09

is the profit motive that actually creates

58:11

a sensible society. Not usually and not

58:13

in unfairness but a profit motive that

58:16

drives people to basically make decisions take

58:18

risk, invest and actually create what Britain

58:20

used to be which was a society

58:23

that was a piece with itself and

58:25

knew what it was. I think we've

58:27

lost that in a way. What do

58:30

you think the focus would and should

58:32

be those first 100, 150 days? We

58:34

have to have a roofless plan for

58:37

the first 100 days. So I think

58:39

we need to get those people with

58:41

policy experience, people with expertise in obviously

58:44

constitutional law, pensions. Building because because because

58:46

the actual planning system is completely broken.

58:48

I don't know about that. Oh, I

58:51

know you know that they're more fixated

58:53

with sort of, you know, wilding and

58:55

biodiversity net gain than they are in

58:58

actually anything logical or sensible, a newts

59:00

and bats and all the other, a

59:02

load of other nonsense. And it's actually

59:05

run by people who don't know which

59:07

ways up. So we need to download

59:09

and get help from people who've got

59:12

policy expertise who feel strongly, distill that

59:14

into a proper policy document. which will

59:16

be a refinement on our contract with

59:19

the people. And the reason we called

59:21

it the contract with the people is

59:23

that all the parties break their manifestos,

59:26

so we didn't want to call it

59:28

a manifesto, so we called it a

59:30

contract with the people. Do you know,

59:33

I often think, why shouldn't we force

59:35

people to put their manifestos out, including

59:37

their budget, pre-election? This is the budget,

59:40

rather than the budget post-election. Well, I

59:42

think there was a nonsense what she

59:44

did with the budget, what she did

59:46

with the budget, become an elected government

59:49

and then hang around from July the

59:51

4th till November, wherever it was, to

59:53

have your budget, talking about how you're

59:56

going to raise taxes, basically undermining the

59:58

economy, creating uncertainty, and encouraging people basically

1:00:00

to cash in and leave. Why not,

1:00:03

as you quite rightly say, give us

1:00:05

your budget before the election and then

1:00:07

deliver the budget? then there's no uncertainty.

1:00:10

But that was the most extraordinary thing

1:00:12

and now she's trying to talk it

1:00:14

up again, but let me tell you,

1:00:17

there is no way ever in history

1:00:19

has a government centrally planned and a

1:00:21

recovery. The worrying thing is, and I'm

1:00:24

reading some research which I get each

1:00:26

month from a wonderful man called Mark

1:00:28

Faber, and you know, the truth is

1:00:31

that America is now, their money supply

1:00:33

is now rising again. And if you

1:00:35

notice this week, they're talking about cutting

1:00:38

interest rates. Right? This is the beginning,

1:00:40

I think, of where Sterling starts a

1:00:42

week. I mean, I'm amazed at how

1:00:45

strong it's been. So I think we're

1:00:47

heading for a sterling crisis. I think

1:00:49

we're heading obviously for an economy that

1:00:52

doesn't grow. And the only way you

1:00:54

get a growing economy, by the way,

1:00:56

is proper long-term private sector investment. That's

1:00:59

how you get growth. And there is

1:01:01

none happening at the moment, trust me.

1:01:03

People are pulling out, you know, you

1:01:06

saw AstraZeneca yesterday, pulled out and... Why

1:01:08

would you invest here with a front

1:01:10

bench of Rachel Reeves? Well, Kirstama, Rachel

1:01:13

Reeves, Angela Rayna? You know, you've got

1:01:15

Rachel Reeves humming one thing, but HMRC

1:01:17

are seeing a totally different tune. You

1:01:19

know, they're crunching the private sector for

1:01:22

tax there. pursuing everybody for every penny.

1:01:24

They're resiling on EIS approvals that she

1:01:26

says they're happy to help foster young

1:01:29

businesses. I can tell you, they've pre-approved

1:01:31

at least four that I know of

1:01:33

and then they've resiled on it once

1:01:36

people have raised the money. So no,

1:01:38

HMRC are a law run to themselves

1:01:40

and you've then got Lammy in the

1:01:43

Chagaw silence, what are we doing? You've

1:01:45

then got, you know, Bridget Phillips, I

1:01:47

mean, you know, half these people think

1:01:50

that, you know... men can be women

1:01:52

and women can be men. You know,

1:01:54

they don't believe in the concept of

1:01:57

men and women, which was one of

1:01:59

the things I loved about. Trump, you

1:02:01

know, he said there can only be

1:02:04

men and women. There's no DEA and

1:02:06

he's always going to disband all that.

1:02:08

I think what they're finding out with

1:02:11

USAID is that you clearly had a

1:02:13

government that you and I believe in

1:02:15

with regard to a sovereign government. that

1:02:18

represents libertarian Western values. They don't want

1:02:20

that. They're actually actively undermining what we

1:02:22

all want. So look, I, and by

1:02:25

the way, it'll be worse here when

1:02:27

we get in and we start the...

1:02:29

the Doge program here. I mean God

1:02:32

knows what we're going to find in

1:02:34

the home office and in the D.W.P.

1:02:36

and in you know I think the

1:02:39

D.W.P. from what we can learn are

1:02:41

just handing out money like confetti to

1:02:43

anybody anybody who applies for it. So

1:02:46

look I honestly I reform's job. We

1:02:48

are no illusions. I'm not anyway about

1:02:50

how big a job we've got and

1:02:53

we probably we probably won't have. that

1:02:55

much goodwill in terms of will have

1:02:57

goodwill initially but it won't last that

1:02:59

long because I as I said you

1:03:02

earlier I I don't see us reaching

1:03:04

the sunny uplands for some time you

1:03:06

know you've often got to go through

1:03:09

a period of pain yeah and if

1:03:11

you look at what Thatcher did in

1:03:13

a way I've always thought she only

1:03:16

survived because of the Falklands War I

1:03:18

mean the what I call Tory wets

1:03:20

were ganging up to get rid of

1:03:23

her in 82, but she then went

1:03:25

to war in the Falklands, which she

1:03:27

won, and then she was untouchable. And

1:03:30

there's a very good book for those

1:03:32

people who want to read about that

1:03:34

period of our history, called Here Today,

1:03:37

Gone Tomorrow, by John Knott, which is

1:03:39

a brilliant book. And it tells you

1:03:41

everything. And again, the young, I've forgotten

1:03:44

that period, but I remember driving down

1:03:46

to Gloucester with my wife. My wife

1:03:48

now, I got married in 86. We

1:03:51

were going out at 82 then. You

1:03:53

know when Maggie said she was sending

1:03:55

in the task force I went yes

1:03:58

finally finally was standing up for what

1:04:00

we believe in. So she stood up

1:04:02

she gave us national pride you know

1:04:05

we sorted out the Falklands and at

1:04:07

the end of the day she then

1:04:09

won the next two elections and as

1:04:12

I said to you earlier she worked

1:04:14

out how much power she had and

1:04:16

by the way when you get elected

1:04:19

here you have got tremendous power if

1:04:21

you care to use it. I think

1:04:23

there's two groups of people in the

1:04:26

UK who are looking at Trump in

1:04:28

America. I think there's a group of,

1:04:30

I call them small sea conservatives. traditional

1:04:32

conservative voters probably now consider a reform

1:04:35

or disillusioned who are looking at America

1:04:37

now and thinking I want some of

1:04:39

that you know firm leadership tough decisions

1:04:42

I wouldn't say we want it we

1:04:44

need it well need it as well

1:04:46

we want it we need want and

1:04:49

need it but there's another group who

1:04:51

look at it with absolute fear they

1:04:53

think this is fascism they think Trump's

1:04:56

crazy they don't seem to understand leadership

1:04:58

or basic economics would you think they

1:05:00

fear a sort of society of interfacing

1:05:03

individuals. Do you think they feel... A

1:05:05

meritocracy? Yes, a meritocracy. Do you think

1:05:07

they fear that they are in any

1:05:10

way dysfunctional or inferior? Is that their

1:05:12

worry? I just think, I think there's

1:05:14

a, I think there's a lot of

1:05:17

people who've been brainwashed and think in

1:05:19

the world works a certain way who've

1:05:21

probably never run a business, had to

1:05:24

make payroll, had to make tough decisions,

1:05:26

have to run a family. I just

1:05:28

think there is a... And I think

1:05:31

it's a cancer that comes from academia.

1:05:33

And I think we bring- There's a

1:05:35

lot of trouble there, isn't there? Yeah,

1:05:38

I just, I don't think we breed

1:05:40

a basic understanding of economics. I don't

1:05:42

think we have enough firm, tough leadership

1:05:45

anymore. And I look across the other,

1:05:47

I look what Buchaley's done in El

1:05:49

Salvador, I look what Malay's doing in

1:05:52

Argentina, and I look with envy, thinking

1:05:54

where are the- Yeah, so I've been

1:05:56

out to that. I made a documentary

1:05:59

on inflation out there. I met on

1:06:01

his economic advisor. I haven't met here,

1:06:03

my met his economic advisor. But did

1:06:05

you, did you study Argentina and how

1:06:08

in 1920s it was one of the

1:06:10

richest countries on the richest in the

1:06:12

world? It's actually, if you've been to

1:06:15

Argentina, they've got the most unbelievable agriculture.

1:06:17

Yeah. It's unbelievable country. It's got everything.

1:06:19

But it was destroyed by socialism, bit

1:06:22

like Venezuela. Venezuela, I've been there as

1:06:24

well. But I think we've been... running

1:06:26

what I call a reverse Darwinian scam

1:06:29

here. That's the problem. You know, I

1:06:31

mean, do you, obviously we don't necessarily

1:06:33

want to go full on Darwinian. I

1:06:36

mean, Charles Darwin and other of my

1:06:38

heroes, I love reading about him and

1:06:40

the Galapagos and everything and fantastic what

1:06:43

he did there. But I think we've

1:06:45

gone reverse Darwin. And I think with

1:06:47

everything we do, we have basically upset

1:06:50

the balance of... you know the strong

1:06:52

versus the weak and arguably we have

1:06:54

promoted weakness far too much. We've clipped

1:06:57

the strong. We've clipped the strong and

1:06:59

we but obviously you know you look

1:07:01

at Victoria and Britain it was obviously

1:07:04

the opposite you had people who did

1:07:06

believe in enterprise and Britain at that

1:07:08

time probably was a country which will,

1:07:11

nobody will ever eclipse the wealth that

1:07:13

we had at that period of time.

1:07:15

But they actually had their own safety

1:07:18

networks through the friendly societies. They were

1:07:20

very advanced, all private sector, nothing to

1:07:22

do with the state. So I always

1:07:25

think more evil is perpetrated in the

1:07:27

name of the state. Individuals don't tend

1:07:29

to perpetrate. They do sometimes, I mean

1:07:32

you always get hit them in Stalin,

1:07:34

but on the whole, if you employ

1:07:36

people... Do you treat them badly? No,

1:07:39

because they won't work for you. Do

1:07:41

you look after them if they're... Then

1:07:43

you're looking after... Yes, of course you

1:07:45

do, because you... You know, like, we've

1:07:48

got a family business that's over 100

1:07:50

years old. A lot of the people

1:07:52

who work there were my father's friends.

1:07:55

It's fallen to me to keep it

1:07:57

going. I mean, the family hasn't had

1:07:59

a dividend for 30 years. They all

1:08:02

get... while we can we will always

1:08:04

help and support them. The quid pro

1:08:06

quo is every now and again you

1:08:09

need to make a profit or it

1:08:11

destroys itself. So you know you obviously

1:08:13

have to find balance and I think

1:08:16

therefore that's why humans always find balance.

1:08:18

their own level. The state, you can

1:08:20

have nasty little people in ivory towers

1:08:23

who do horrible things and without any

1:08:25

justification. So I have a fear of

1:08:27

the state. I hate statism. You know,

1:08:30

I'm an Austrian school economist, I believe

1:08:32

always totally in the individual and I

1:08:34

will always, that's why the Constitution of

1:08:37

America is so great at every turn.

1:08:39

it is debit the state credit the

1:08:41

individual, debit the state credit the individual

1:08:44

because federal government since 19, what was

1:08:46

it, the new deal that Richard Roosevelt

1:08:48

deal, they undermine the ninth and tenth

1:08:51

amendment, federal government's grown like a cancer.

1:08:53

And you know, it is actually now

1:08:55

a malign influence in the US and

1:08:58

hopefully Trump Musk and the lads will

1:09:00

do something about that too. This episode

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That is ledger.com, which is LED. g-e-r.com.

1:11:10

That is ledger.com. So if you're an

1:11:12

Austrian proponent of Austrian economics, are you

1:11:15

a proponent of sound money? Do you

1:11:17

believe in a sound more standard? I

1:11:19

tell you what I think on money.

1:11:22

I think Britain was at its most

1:11:24

powerful when we had private money. So

1:11:26

I actually do believe you can privatize

1:11:29

money. And I actually think the Bank

1:11:31

of England, all the central banks, I

1:11:33

think they're a pervasive evil. And they

1:11:36

distort money. So if you, so when

1:11:38

Britain, and really the concept of banking

1:11:40

was, if you were a Rothschild or

1:11:43

you were a banker, you spent your

1:11:45

entire life building up your reputation, you

1:11:47

did one thing wrong and all the

1:11:50

money left your bank, you went bust.

1:11:52

So I actually do believe in privatized

1:11:54

money. I mean it's probably a bridge

1:11:57

too far at the moment given the

1:11:59

sort of centrally planned nature of the

1:12:01

way we all live. But it exists

1:12:04

already. Where? So I keep all my

1:12:06

money in Bitcoin. Well we've got crypto.

1:12:08

Well I say Bitcoin rather than crypto.

1:12:11

Because crypto is a world of scams

1:12:13

and bullshit and nonsense. Bitcoin to me

1:12:15

is the only legitimate crypto currency because

1:12:18

it's the only one with meaningful decentralisation

1:12:20

keeping the power away from the state.

1:12:22

That is private money. I have to

1:12:24

confess I'm not an expert on crypto.

1:12:27

But I did go to crypto dinner

1:12:29

the other day where I warned them,

1:12:31

I said, you know, you'll grow very

1:12:34

nicely while you're a private sector operation,

1:12:36

but the minute the government starts to

1:12:38

regulate your game's over. Well, they have

1:12:41

already some extent. I mean, the banks

1:12:43

themselves are so fearful of Bitcoin that

1:12:45

a lot of the banks wouldn't even

1:12:48

let you access the exchanges. I've had

1:12:50

three bank accounts closed down. One for

1:12:52

receiving a... a sponsorship payment from a

1:12:55

Bitcoin company. Another one because I transfer

1:12:57

to an exchange. But you might not

1:12:59

know much about this, so I won't

1:13:02

press you on it. But I think

1:13:04

it's definitely something reform should take a

1:13:06

look at. And I tell you the

1:13:09

area you should really take a look

1:13:11

at is, you know with Bitcoin, do

1:13:13

you know about this in Bitcoin? Yes.

1:13:16

So there's, I guess, as a correlation

1:13:18

between the cost of energy and... Yes

1:13:20

there is but the most interesting part

1:13:23

is we were looking at this article

1:13:25

this morning on where is it it's

1:13:27

a bit small there but we curtail

1:13:30

so are we're paying the wind generators

1:13:32

a billion pound a year to turn

1:13:34

off because we're generating more wind energy

1:13:37

well I know that because I have

1:13:39

a battery storage business so we're where

1:13:41

we're we're we have about well we've

1:13:44

got one Morgan Bay which we actually

1:13:46

sold we got another and we just

1:13:48

got up in Scotland So I know

1:13:51

we turn the lot of, so it's

1:13:53

not infrastructure, we've got the infrastructure, the

1:13:55

grid cannot cope with the energy. So

1:13:58

the fascinating thing, you know. spend billions

1:14:00

on the grid, but Mad Ed Miller

1:14:02

Band doesn't talk about how much

1:14:04

you've got to spend on the grid

1:14:06

to be able to distribute the power.

1:14:09

So in America, specifically in Texas, I

1:14:11

know of companies who are taking the

1:14:13

Bitcoin miners and they're plugging them in

1:14:15

next to them, and rather than curtailing

1:14:17

the power, they're buying it from them.

1:14:19

And so that money is just going to

1:14:21

pure waste. I'm not saying we should go

1:14:24

into detail now, but when reform starts

1:14:26

looking at its energy policies, this is

1:14:28

something that would be worth looking at.

1:14:30

Well, I think there is certainly a

1:14:32

role. I mean, look, I understand the

1:14:35

concept of blockchain and I, look, I've

1:14:37

been in the city, as you

1:14:39

probably know, for quite a lot of

1:14:41

my life. So I've sort of, you know,

1:14:43

I've worked with deregulating markets when I was

1:14:45

on the board of life from 85 to

1:14:48

88, you know, you know, done all this

1:14:50

stuff and I think I can work out

1:14:52

the concept and I can see the logic

1:14:54

of having a disciplined currency which cannot be

1:14:56

created because I have a thing you probably

1:14:59

know I did a 10-minute rule bill on

1:15:01

quantitative easing which is something I really hate.

1:15:03

I mean I hate the fact that the

1:15:05

state can do something you and I can't

1:15:08

do and create money in our own

1:15:10

name and undermine everybody's savings.

1:15:12

I personally think that is

1:15:14

absolutely outrageous. It's my friend

1:15:16

called it universal basic income

1:15:18

for rich. Oh, it's shocking. Yeah. So

1:15:20

look, I mean, I think what we

1:15:22

have to do is not overcomplicate it,

1:15:24

but I can see the logic of

1:15:27

it, and I can see the logic

1:15:29

of... I actually have got a bit

1:15:31

of crypto. I had a look

1:15:33

at it. It's not. And I did

1:15:36

see a thing where somebody was saying

1:15:38

that it's a terrible one, but it's...

1:15:40

I put about 9,300, I put 10

1:15:42

grand to Revolute, because I'm not really

1:15:45

a sort of cyber whiz, so I

1:15:47

thought I'll do it to Revolute. And

1:15:49

I was in fear of, like the

1:15:51

chap who had his hard drive chucked

1:15:53

onto the rubbish heap, and there

1:15:56

was, whatever there was, a couple

1:15:58

of billion quids worth of... of

1:16:00

money on his hard drive. Anyway, so

1:16:02

I thought, I'll just learn a bit

1:16:04

about it. So I studied and I

1:16:07

thought, well, Ripple, which I know, I

1:16:09

know, I know, I saw a thing

1:16:11

where somebody said it was the wrong

1:16:13

thing. So I put in about 9,300,

1:16:16

I'll just watch it. And so actually

1:16:18

recently, that 9,300 appreciated to something like

1:16:20

46,000's come back to about 32, 33,000.

1:16:22

Right. I tell you what. So tell

1:16:25

me about Ripple. Well, so to me

1:16:27

it's a scam, it's a fraud. I

1:16:29

think Brad Garlinghouse who runs it is

1:16:31

a compulsive liar. They have funded misin-

1:16:34

I saw a clip on that. Somebody

1:16:36

said that the other day. Well, there's

1:16:38

two things. They funded misinformation campaigns via

1:16:40

Greenpeace against Bitcoin. And they have also

1:16:43

been undermining the efforts to create a

1:16:45

strategic Bitcoin reserve in the US government.

1:16:47

These people, I think they're fundamentally evil.

1:16:49

The cryptocurrency ripple has no purpose. To

1:16:52

me it's a fraud, personally. You'll probably

1:16:54

assume it's a theorem then. I mean,

1:16:56

some of them are just, to me,

1:16:59

they're just pointless. They're scams. The thing

1:17:01

about a blockchain is, the reason of...

1:17:03

cryptocurrency like Bitcoin is built on a

1:17:05

blockchain is you're trying to decentralize it

1:17:08

which means you're trying to get it

1:17:10

away from the power of the state

1:17:12

so it can't be turned off. So

1:17:14

even when China bans it it doesn't

1:17:17

end. All other cryptocurrencies failed because they

1:17:19

were centralized. Bitcoin is impossible now to

1:17:21

turn off because it's meaningfully decentralized and

1:17:23

that is the power of a blockchain

1:17:26

but it's the only one that is

1:17:28

all the others aren't meaningfully decentralized so

1:17:30

they don't need a blockchain. I think

1:17:32

we're going to have to get you

1:17:35

into the policy unit to give us

1:17:37

all your knowledge about this to give

1:17:39

us all your knowledge, download your knowledge

1:17:41

into a policy document. Well they have

1:17:44

a crypto czar now in the US,

1:17:46

David Sachs, who's doing that. There's far

1:17:48

better people to speak than me and

1:17:50

I can introduce to them but I

1:17:53

do think it's something that's definitely worth

1:17:55

looking at and we can talk about

1:17:57

it further. I agree and I bank

1:17:59

with a bank with a bank called

1:18:02

Hors Bank which is the last private

1:18:04

bank in the last private bank in

1:18:06

the country with unlimited personal liability so

1:18:09

the partners have. wonderful letter from one

1:18:11

of the whore family, and he was

1:18:13

called Henry Hore or something, and it's

1:18:15

in their museum. As you know, the

1:18:18

Bank of England was formed largely because

1:18:20

Charles II was a spendthrift, and we

1:18:22

ended up running out of credit, so

1:18:24

the only way that he'd get any

1:18:27

credit was set out the Bank of

1:18:29

England, and there's a wonderful letter from

1:18:31

one of the whore family, I think

1:18:33

he was called Henry Hore or something,

1:18:36

and it's in their museum, where he

1:18:38

wrote a fantastic letter challenging... the establishment

1:18:40

of the Bank of England as a

1:18:42

pervasive evil. Well, okay. So you should

1:18:45

look at that, but I think you

1:18:47

should definitely give us your knowledge, because

1:18:49

this is the thing, not everybody can

1:18:51

know everything. And there are lots of

1:18:54

us who have libertarian instincts, who have

1:18:56

knowledge in areas, and it's incumbent on

1:18:58

you to help hone reformist policy document

1:19:00

using that. Yeah, I mean, look, a

1:19:03

Bitcoin is a libertarian idea. And then

1:19:05

I'm in favor of it. Well, I

1:19:07

mean, whenever you guys need a one,

1:19:09

I'll come in, I can come in

1:19:12

and talk, but there are far better

1:19:14

speakers. Should I flog the ripple then?

1:19:16

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, look, it might

1:19:19

go up and down, but ultimately it's

1:19:21

trajectory as to zero, because it has

1:19:23

an issue. The reason I brought it,

1:19:25

I tell you, because from a banking

1:19:28

point of view, I thought it was

1:19:30

relatively profiting from inefficiencies in the banking

1:19:32

system. Well, the problem... And this would

1:19:34

have allowed for a much... They did

1:19:37

have a problem with the SEC at

1:19:39

one time, as you probably know, which

1:19:41

I think resolved itself. And hence, and

1:19:43

it went right down, so I thought,

1:19:46

well, I'll just forget it, write it

1:19:48

off. And then suddenly I looked at

1:19:50

it, I didn't look at it for

1:19:52

about six months, and suddenly I looked

1:19:55

at it, it was worth 20 grand,

1:19:57

and then... I mean, congratulate, I actually

1:19:59

bought Ripple years ago. Well, it's, it's,

1:20:01

it's, I only did it as a

1:20:04

little sort of play just to learn

1:20:06

about it. We have a say in

1:20:08

Rupert, if it's not Bitcoin, it's a

1:20:10

shit coin. But the thing is, they,

1:20:13

the Ripple, the company, the self, own

1:20:15

a large amount of XRP. is to

1:20:17

convince people it's useful so they can

1:20:19

keep selling it and bringing in them.

1:20:22

They've sold billions of it themselves, but

1:20:24

ultimately it won't make. the banking system

1:20:26

more efficient. The most efficient bank is

1:20:28

Bitcoin because there's no central authority. So

1:20:31

even with Ripple there's a central authority.

1:20:33

There's no central authority of Bitcoin. I

1:20:35

can send it to you and know

1:20:38

you can stop it. So it's completely

1:20:40

devolved. It's a bit, it is a

1:20:42

bit, it is a bit like a

1:20:44

private bank in the old days. It

1:20:47

is a bit like a private bank

1:20:49

in the old days. It is pure

1:20:51

private money, I can. It is a

1:20:53

bit like a private bank, I think.

1:20:56

That's a Darwinian society. Yes. The reverse

1:20:58

Darwinian society is where, oh, well, you've

1:21:00

lost all your money, bad luck, you

1:21:02

know, we'll give you 83,000 or 85,000

1:21:05

euros back or whatever it is. Well,

1:21:07

look, when you and Richard and Nigel

1:21:09

want to figure out your Bitcoin crypto

1:21:11

strategy, I know the people to bring

1:21:14

in to talk to you about it,

1:21:16

you've talked about this a lot. There's

1:21:18

a lot to get into, we've got

1:21:20

10 minutes, but what, because you've done

1:21:23

all the research, asked a lot of

1:21:25

questions, what are the key points that

1:21:27

you would want to get across now

1:21:29

to people listening, because I am just

1:21:32

conscious with our time limited. Well look,

1:21:34

I mean, immigration is, I'm not anti-immigration,

1:21:36

that's the first thing to say, I've

1:21:38

always said that, but what I am

1:21:41

anti, is... low-grade immigrate, or people who

1:21:43

aren't highly skilled. So immigration, if you

1:21:45

have a society that is advanced, it

1:21:48

will always have a need for some

1:21:50

people who've got skills that is not

1:21:52

in that society. So therefore you need

1:21:54

a small amount of high-skilled immigration. That

1:21:57

adds to the... so they bring... they

1:21:59

bring an additional sort of wealth creation

1:22:01

element. to the country they come to

1:22:03

and you you probably know that Australia

1:22:06

and New Zealand have very targeted policies

1:22:08

on either skill sets or people bringing

1:22:10

wealth to their country. So there is

1:22:12

a very very big hurdle to jump

1:22:15

over before you can get citizenship in

1:22:17

those countries. What's happened here is we've

1:22:19

seen our best people as we've discussed

1:22:21

earlier leaving so your innovators and your

1:22:24

wealth creators and your drivers of society

1:22:26

are going and what we've had is

1:22:28

a lot of initially what I call,

1:22:30

I don't mean rude about them because

1:22:33

you need people who do all sorts

1:22:35

of jobs, but at the end they're

1:22:37

not highly skilled labor coming in, initially

1:22:39

from Europe. And actually, you know, Poland,

1:22:42

I think, is a country which has

1:22:44

got potential, as long as it doesn't

1:22:46

suffer and get caught up in this

1:22:48

wretched, you know, situation with Ukraine, Russia,

1:22:51

and that part of the world. They've

1:22:53

always suffered historically, I think, from being...

1:22:55

in the wrong place geographically. But actually

1:22:58

the Polish people I think I've got

1:23:00

a lot of time for them. It

1:23:02

seems that the Hungarians are getting their

1:23:04

act together a bit as well because

1:23:07

again they've got a big history, the

1:23:09

Hungarians. So a lot of those people

1:23:11

are actually now going home. So those

1:23:13

Polish people who came and contributed sent

1:23:16

money home of now going home. The

1:23:18

Poland's economy is actually, is developing quite

1:23:20

fast and it's in a quite an

1:23:22

interesting part of Europe. But what we're

1:23:25

now doing is we're bringing in people

1:23:27

and we now we're a sovereign nation,

1:23:29

we have total control over who comes

1:23:31

here. We didn't have that before, but

1:23:34

we do now. And what we shouldn't

1:23:36

be doing is bringing in, and it's

1:23:38

not just the illegal migrants that we're

1:23:40

talking about. For me, illegal migrants should

1:23:43

be detained and deported. If you come

1:23:45

here illegally, you're here illegally. Not acceptable.

1:23:47

And, you know, I'm very worried that

1:23:49

the labor government's going to have an

1:23:52

amnesty and it's just going to let

1:23:54

people who come here illegally stay here,

1:23:56

which again would send a message to

1:23:58

other people to come here and try

1:24:01

and stay here. illegally. No, we should

1:24:03

detain the port. And I tell you,

1:24:05

the boats have stopped tomorrow because it

1:24:07

would be a waste of them, whatever

1:24:10

they spend, three, four, five thousand dollars,

1:24:12

or whatever they're spending to get a

1:24:14

small boat over and risk their lives.

1:24:17

You'd stop that overnight. But so I'm

1:24:19

very clear that that has to be

1:24:21

detained to port. And I've said, you

1:24:23

know, put them on a, put them

1:24:26

on us, an island in a suitable

1:24:28

part of the UK. give him a

1:24:30

bowl of porridge and a tented camp

1:24:32

and let the midges do the rest.

1:24:35

But you know, that's a sort of,

1:24:37

that's a sort of worst case situation,

1:24:39

but detained a port. Come here legally,

1:24:41

don't stay. No, no, we have to

1:24:44

apply legally. If you're a foreign criminal

1:24:46

in our prison, deport, don't come here

1:24:48

and commit crime. I think there's 10,000

1:24:50

foreign criminals in our prison. Just on

1:24:53

that one. Before or after the sentence,

1:24:55

because there is an argument that somebody

1:24:57

may have committed a horrific crime if

1:24:59

you deport them, they won't be sentenced

1:25:02

in another country. Well, I mean, you're

1:25:04

looking at it from today, so we

1:25:06

know from our questions that there are

1:25:08

10,500 foreign criminals in our prisons. And

1:25:11

meanwhile, we're letting criminals in our prisons.

1:25:13

And meanwhile, we're letting out criminals early,

1:25:15

because we haven't got the room in

1:25:17

our prison, so they can go deport

1:25:20

them. Why do you want to keep

1:25:22

them? them, you're unleashing a dangerous person

1:25:24

on the streets elsewhere. There's kind of

1:25:27

like a moral response. Well, you know,

1:25:29

we give foreign aid, as I've said,

1:25:31

to Pakistan, I think we gave 133

1:25:33

million pounds last year. You want to

1:25:36

ensure they would be in prison in

1:25:38

the other country? You tell them that,

1:25:40

you know, there is a deal, you

1:25:42

take these people back, they're your problem

1:25:45

as well as our problem, they're your

1:25:47

citizens, you deal with them. By the

1:25:49

way, have you have you have seen.

1:25:51

So look, I mean, but then the

1:25:54

real problem that has happened is legal

1:25:56

migration, which... Now, why that's been allowed

1:25:58

to happen again, I think it's a

1:26:00

bad reflection on, first of all, the

1:26:03

Tory front bench and latterly, the Labour

1:26:05

front bench. So, I mean, it's frightening,

1:26:07

isn't it? So this is legal migration

1:26:09

and it happened despite the fact that

1:26:12

Cameron, May, Boris, They all said they

1:26:14

would reduce legal migration, but in fact

1:26:16

it went completely bonkers. Do you think

1:26:18

this was to protect GDP? I honestly,

1:26:21

I mean, again, it's not about GDP,

1:26:23

it's about GDP per capita. If you...

1:26:25

Oh no, we know that. If you

1:26:27

reduce your... If you bring these people

1:26:30

in, they are a cost. They're a

1:26:32

cost to the economy. They're not a

1:26:34

benefit. But do you think that's why

1:26:37

they did it because they wanted a

1:26:39

better headline GDP? I honestly don't know.

1:26:41

I don't know whether it was incompetence.

1:26:43

I don't know. I mean, whether the,

1:26:46

as I said to you, whether the

1:26:48

front bench was aware of what was

1:26:50

happening in their name, you know, at

1:26:52

the home office, I honestly don't know,

1:26:55

but it is gross negligence to say

1:26:57

you're going to reduce legal immigration and

1:26:59

then preside over that. I mean, that

1:27:01

is quite shocking, isn't it? Yeah, no,

1:27:04

I mean, it is. I mean, I

1:27:06

think it's a fairly simple thing to

1:27:08

solve. I think the toughest question that

1:27:10

I've seen put, and certainly I think

1:27:13

it's been put to Nigel, is the

1:27:15

idea of mass deportation. I think that's

1:27:17

a, just as a subject, some people

1:27:19

find that uncomfortable. How do you feel

1:27:22

about these ideas of... Well, I'm in

1:27:24

favour of deporting people who are illegally,

1:27:26

and I'm... whether you call it deportation

1:27:28

or mass deportation is meaningless frankly they've

1:27:31

got to go and you know they're

1:27:33

here if you're here illegally you go

1:27:35

don't come here illegally come if you

1:27:37

want to come here apply legally and

1:27:40

when then we can decide whether you're

1:27:42

going to add benefit to our society

1:27:44

and if we don't think you are

1:27:46

don't come here So, you know, say

1:27:49

at home. And if you don't agree

1:27:51

with our culture and our laws and

1:27:53

the way we live our lives, and

1:27:56

you don't speak our language, that's another

1:27:58

big issue, by the way. Come here,

1:28:00

you've got to learn English, you've got

1:28:02

to speak English, and our hospitals should

1:28:05

be dealing in English and English alone.

1:28:07

It's not up to the taxpayer to

1:28:09

be funding translation for people who don't

1:28:11

speak English. No. We are an English-speaking

1:28:14

country. You come here, you speak English,

1:28:16

you live by our laws, and you

1:28:18

effectively respect what we are. Otherwise, go

1:28:20

home. I'm really conscious of time. I've

1:28:23

got two more questions. I think a

1:28:25

lot of labour voters, if they understood

1:28:27

the consequences and what the policies of

1:28:29

socialism actually meant, they wouldn't vote for

1:28:32

it because it actually undermines what I

1:28:34

think their belief system is. You as

1:28:36

a politician, do you... Do you consider

1:28:38

ways to try and convince people who

1:28:41

may be from the left that their

1:28:43

ideas and their policies won't work? Do

1:28:45

you make an effort to convert them?

1:28:47

Do you have like a message for

1:28:50

them? Well look, I mean, they're presumably,

1:28:52

they're driven like me by common sense.

1:28:54

I mean, that's something which I think

1:28:56

for me is incredibly important. But I

1:28:59

do think what you tend to see

1:29:01

with these socialists or... communist societies, is

1:29:03

that they destroy the sort of work

1:29:06

ethic, they destroy, as we said earlier,

1:29:08

any reason to sort of build anything,

1:29:10

and then they collapse. And then out

1:29:12

of that collapse, and just look at

1:29:15

what's happened in Russia, you've got, I

1:29:17

would argue at the moment, I mean

1:29:19

forget Ukraine, and we did have a

1:29:21

finance direct whose son married a Russian,

1:29:24

and he said when he went over

1:29:26

to Russia. there are no laws really

1:29:28

you get on with your life you

1:29:30

long as you don't try and challenge

1:29:33

Vladimir Putin, you can build up a

1:29:35

very successful business. Okay, if you get

1:29:37

too big, then probably there's a sort

1:29:39

of a mafia element to the whole

1:29:42

thing. But actually on a day-to-day basis,

1:29:44

there is no health and safety executive

1:29:46

or, you know, no government regulation. So

1:29:48

they've thrown off that sort of mantle

1:29:51

of communist sort of oppression. And I

1:29:53

think there is probably more individualism now

1:29:55

within... within Russia than there arguably is

1:29:57

within a lot of the western sort

1:30:00

of centrally planned economies. I'm not sure

1:30:02

it's the model I want though. I'm

1:30:04

not saying it's the model you want,

1:30:06

but what happens is you see, you

1:30:09

asked me about socialism, socialism destroys any

1:30:11

form of individual sort of enterprise. and

1:30:13

then that individual enterprise which is always

1:30:16

there it will come and as you

1:30:18

know the story about communism is you

1:30:20

drive through these gray streets with all

1:30:22

the houses look the same then you're

1:30:25

going through the front door and it's

1:30:27

like a palace inside yeah but instead

1:30:29

of being honest about what you are

1:30:31

this is where I said you live

1:30:34

a lie yeah you you live a

1:30:36

lie because you don't want everybody else

1:30:38

to see how you're living and I

1:30:40

don't want to live in a society

1:30:43

of where people are able to express

1:30:45

themselves, where success, as you said, is

1:30:47

respected, because we're all different. We all

1:30:49

have different skill sets, and in the

1:30:52

end, we all live by interfacing with

1:30:54

each other and finding our own level.

1:30:56

That's how it works. Rupert, we're about

1:30:58

to hit our time, and I think

1:31:01

we could have done about three hours

1:31:03

on this. We'll have to do it

1:31:05

again some time. I just did, but

1:31:07

I wanted to finish on football. was

1:31:10

very bad for my health. I mean,

1:31:12

probably the best day of my life

1:31:14

was when we got to the Cup

1:31:16

final in 2003. We played at Cardiff.

1:31:19

We lost to Arsenal 1-nill, Robert Perez.

1:31:21

Little Brett Ormerod missed out and go

1:31:23

at the end. We probably could have

1:31:26

won that game. But look, that was

1:31:28

probably the best day of my life.

1:31:30

My family came. The Saints' supporters rarely

1:31:32

treated me with greater plom. Finally enough,

1:31:35

a lot of them now are coming

1:31:37

forward saying, you know, they actually prove

1:31:39

what we're doing, which is fantastic. In

1:31:41

the end, I got damaged by the

1:31:44

media, because as you probably know, big

1:31:46

football is controlled by the media. If

1:31:48

you win the battle... off the pitch,

1:31:50

the players go on to the pitch

1:31:53

and don't believe they can win, but

1:31:55

actually they can win if they believe

1:31:57

they can win. So look, I did

1:31:59

love it, but my blood pressure went

1:32:02

up, you know, you sit there in

1:32:04

that front row and they're chanting Rupert

1:32:06

Loza Wanker, you tell your wife it's

1:32:08

not true. and you can't show it

1:32:11

but it does affect you and you

1:32:13

know the other one they sing was

1:32:15

swing low swing Rupert load from the

1:32:17

itchen bridge when we went whenever we

1:32:20

went one nil down I go well

1:32:22

I didn't pick the team I didn't

1:32:24

have anything to do I'm not on

1:32:26

the pitch but as you know fans

1:32:29

can never blame the players they always

1:32:31

have to blame authority yeah Rupert look

1:32:33

this is great I appreciate your time

1:32:35

been very generous I hope we get

1:32:38

to do it again sometime there's a

1:32:40

I guess it's going to be a

1:32:42

very four years. Well, listen, look, we

1:32:45

will get together, if you, you, Nigel

1:32:47

and Richard and the others want to

1:32:49

talk about it, you can set up

1:32:51

a roundtable, I can bring the experts

1:32:54

in from all around the world, you

1:32:56

know, we're going to fall behind the

1:32:58

US because I don't think the Labour

1:33:00

Party will do anything about it, but

1:33:03

they're certainly going to rush ahead. But

1:33:05

look, good luck, it's impressive what reform

1:33:07

have done, I wish you the best,

1:33:09

and we're the best, and we're going

1:33:12

to keep the best, and we're going

1:33:14

to keep on, and we're going to

1:33:16

keep on what you, and we're going

1:33:18

to keep on what you, and we're

1:33:21

going to keep on what you, and

1:33:23

we're going to keep on what you,

1:33:25

and we're going to, and we're going

1:33:27

to, and we're going to, and we're

1:33:30

going to, and we're going to, and

1:33:32

we're going to, and we're going to,

1:33:34

and we're going to We'll get you

1:33:36

down there one day. Get the blood

1:33:39

pressure tablets in now. Don't. All right.

1:33:41

Thank you everyone for listening.