0:00

Big was my error. You know, we're

0:02

kids, you know, I think I was

0:04

probably 18, he was probably 20 or

0:06

something. You're a competitor, so I'm like,

0:08

I'll destroy this guy, you know, you're

0:10

not, you're not looking, and like I

0:12

said, they're from my era, so they're

0:14

my peers, and they were all on

0:16

the come-up. So all these guys that

0:18

had these brilliant careers that they were

0:20

my competition and my peers, and even

0:22

if we, uh... Well friends you were

0:24

still like I'm better than him I'm

0:26

better than you you know let's go

0:28

that that was what hip-hop was at the

0:31

time was like a competition and a fight

0:33

I just thought like oh yeah we're gonna

0:35

you know my man it was cool I

0:37

wasn't like who I'm in the guy that's

0:39

gonna be one of the most famous rappers

0:41

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0:43

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1:30

All right. How you doing, man? I'm

1:32

great. Man is treating me like a

1:34

king. I'm in the UK with my

1:36

kids. Just got back from the London

1:39

dungeon. His son thought I was doing

1:41

it for me. Like, oh, I already

1:43

want to see the dungeon. Nah, he

1:45

has two kids here, nine-year-olds, nine and

1:48

eight-year-old, yeah. Well, look, we appreciate you

1:50

coming in, man. As Connor, well, you wouldn't

1:52

appreciate this, but I told you I came

1:54

to see you 20 years ago in

1:56

Amsterdam. I don't even know if you

1:59

remember the show. you told me

2:01

the story and I do appreciate it

2:03

of course I do that's that's great

2:05

that's amazing because I hear stories like

2:07

that where and people who end up

2:09

doing great in their life and they're

2:12

like I you know when I did this and

2:14

that you know and it's like awesome because

2:16

you never know who the hell's in that

2:18

crowd you know so and then 20 years

2:20

later we sit here yeah and gonna give

2:22

me my son I hope you're gonna give me

2:24

the answer I think but what is the

2:26

song I've made you listen to most

2:28

hipop song oh yeah I don't think

2:30

I've made anyone listen to any song

2:32

more than that song. Wow. No, that was

2:35

36 Chambers. No, that was Protect Your

2:37

Neck. When he was a kid, you

2:39

know, you do on McDonald. I used

2:41

to do Protect Your Neck. Wow. Well,

2:43

you know, so much thought of if you

2:45

came to that show in, you know, Die,

2:47

you know, this was literally, literally was

2:49

20 years ago. So what were you doing

2:52

with a one-year-old? at home and

2:54

you're flying to see rap concerts

2:56

in other countries. Well, what the

2:58

hell are you doing, man? They

3:01

care your kids, man. He's that

3:03

nice. He's with his grandparents eating

3:05

chocolate cake and drinking soda. It's

3:07

a blessing to grandparents. With my

3:09

kids, you know, my mother lives

3:12

in America. I have two mothers,

3:14

basically, my stepmother, my mother. So

3:16

they both live in America. The

3:18

mother, my children, her grandparents,

3:20

lived two, two hours, two hours

3:22

away. So we had no help like we couldn't

3:25

just drop them off and go do things

3:27

So like when I hear stories like that

3:29

are the grandparents were in town or the

3:31

cousins were in town great. Yeah, mine were

3:34

five minutes away is like take the kid.

3:36

We're gonna have some them We're gonna

3:38

see this guy rugged man smoke some

3:40

weed that's beautiful man. That's the one

3:42

thing I was missing was family there

3:44

to help you know, they were they

3:46

were great kids, but it was difficult

3:48

raising two kids with just two parents.

3:50

You know, so you've had a wild

3:52

career How do you reflect

3:54

on life? What? How do

3:56

you reflect on it

3:58

all? You know. It's kind of

4:01

like everybody who had like a

4:03

wild youth, you know. If you're able

4:05

to get past it, you know,

4:07

people have wild days, they don't

4:09

live, they get killed, they go

4:11

to jail, they ruin everything, they

4:13

lose everything, you know. So if

4:16

you get this far in life,

4:18

afterwards you get self-reflection, and it

4:20

feels good, you know, like, oh, you

4:22

survived the craziness, and I really, I'm

4:24

proud of it all, you know. Back then I

4:27

was ashamed of it all, you know, like,

4:29

ah, you know, I thought I was a

4:31

bomb loser, and then you look back and

4:33

you go, no, no, you was just doing

4:36

good for yourself. You just, it was

4:38

crazy, you know, so, yeah, everything worked out

4:40

how it should. I can't, there's

4:42

nothing in my life, I didn't

4:44

do, you know, it's almost sad, it's

4:46

like the bucket list, I almost

4:49

have the entire bucket list, you

4:51

know, you know, so not much else I could

4:53

do, I could do, you know. song with Big

4:55

Daddy Kane, a song with L.L. Cool Jay, something

4:57

like that. Maybe those are bucket lists, you know.

5:00

Maybe a big budget, not a big budget film, but

5:02

I direct a film for like 10, 15 million

5:04

to one rose. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm saying,

5:06

but I was just doing the bucket list, I

5:08

guess, in rap, like I really did everything I

5:10

wanted to and yeah, so yeah. You could do

5:12

some good collapse. Yeah, those are still coming though

5:15

coming though. The new album is in the new album

5:17

is in the new album is in the works and

5:19

it's in the works and it's in the works and

5:21

it's in the works and it's in the works and

5:23

it's in the works and it's, I'm really like

5:25

proud of the work I'm doing still

5:27

like that I'm able to pick up

5:29

the pen because I worked on the

5:31

film and it was like a year

5:33

and a half of your life and

5:35

that's all you work on it and

5:38

it's even when you don't want

5:40

to you want to work on

5:42

music you can't because producing and

5:44

writing and editing and all the

5:46

stuff is a lot of time so you like

5:48

I got to work on my music and

5:50

You can't now so I picked up the

5:52

pen I started going crazy with it again.

5:55

I was like, yeah, I'm still right there

5:57

I'm still top tier like I'm crushing these

5:59

dudes easy like in my sleep, I'm

6:01

writing bars that will crush these

6:04

dudes. So, you know, and it's

6:06

not an ego thing, like when I'm

6:08

not crushing, I know it too, you

6:10

know, like I'm like, damn, I gotta

6:12

figure out how to get the magic

6:14

or what the hell do I gotta

6:16

do to be that crushing these

6:18

other dudes, dude, you know, and

6:20

sometimes that happens, I'm not, you

6:23

know, but, uh. But right now I'm

6:25

on fire again, you know, so that's

6:27

that's happened that make me happy, you

6:29

know But look everyone in hip-hop talk

6:31

so highly of you. I've seen it Yeah,

6:33

I've went back through you the Twitter. I've

6:35

seen it in interviews Like is all

6:38

everyone I mean the way biggie talked

6:40

about you. Yeah, well, that's what I

6:42

was saying with the bucket list. It's

6:44

like big was my error. Yeah, so when

6:46

big and the whoa when those guys big me

6:48

up it's big me up. It's like oh, oh,

6:50

oh, thanks guys But mob, you know, when

6:52

they big me up with thanks guys,

6:54

but what it was is when, it's

6:57

my idols, when, you know, the

6:59

juice crew and Chuck and Kane,

7:01

Koogee rap, Rock Kim, like every

7:03

kid, your master cast, I get

7:05

accolades from all of the greatest

7:07

MCs that ever lived, who were

7:09

the greatest to me. That's where

7:12

you go bucket list. Hey, yeah, I

7:14

mean. So the way somebody's get Kooji

7:16

rap, there's stuff he said to me

7:18

about, you know, my greatness and how

7:21

it's like, oh, you're Kooji rap, man.

7:23

I don't know, are we allowed to

7:25

curse on here? And there's the volume

7:27

of my speaking line up because I

7:30

feel like I'm in chill mode right now, so

7:32

as long as, and if anybody has the

7:34

coughing in the background, we

7:36

don't have a place to lock my son,

7:38

he's, we don't have a place to lock

7:41

my son to lock my son, coughing

7:43

up things right now in the back

7:45

so just ignore it. We accept it

7:47

all. Ignore the half dying kid in

7:49

the background. Yeah what was it like

7:51

recording with Biggie? That must have been

7:53

a moment. Well that's a question they

7:55

always asked and I always kind of

7:57

had the same answer because it's like it's

7:59

it was you know, we're kids, you know, I

8:01

think I was probably 18, he

8:04

was probably 20 or something. I

8:06

don't remember the exact ages, so,

8:08

but I was a teenager and you're

8:10

a competitor, so I'm like, I'll

8:12

destroy this guy, you know, you know,

8:15

you're not looking, and like I said,

8:17

they're from my era, so they're my

8:19

peers, and they were all on the come-up.

8:21

So all these guys that had these

8:23

brilliant careers. They didn't have the brilliant careers

8:26

that they were my competition and my peers

8:28

and even if we were friends, you were

8:30

still like, I'm better than him, I'm better than you, you

8:32

know, let's go. That was what hip-hop was at the time,

8:34

was like a competition and a fight. So I just thought

8:36

like, oh yeah, we're going to, you know, my man, he

8:38

was cool. I wasn't like, whoa, I'm in the guide, it's going

8:40

to be one of the most famous raphers that,

8:42

the most famous rapids that ever lived, and it's,

8:44

and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's,

8:46

and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's,

8:49

and it's, and it's, and it's, it's, it's,

8:51

it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

8:53

it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's So

8:55

it was the same as if I was

8:57

working with the Timo King or, or, you

8:59

know, killer priest, you know, you just, oh,

9:02

my man, you have respect for them lyrically,

9:04

let's go. That's what it was like. It

9:06

was like being in the studio with my

9:08

boy, you know. I didn't think when you're

9:10

doing a club that it can be also

9:12

competitive, does that like drive on? Well,

9:14

most of the time you try to take

9:17

your opponent's head off, you know, you know,

9:19

most of time. But, you know, that

9:21

was my for a lot of years,

9:24

but then years later you go, okay,

9:26

this is this is a song with

9:28

so-and-so, and they might be a

9:30

little less fast flow, so let's go

9:33

a little slow with it. Oh,

9:35

this person might be a little

9:37

less syllable oriented, let's

9:39

go a little less syllable

9:41

with it, but kind of

9:44

accelerated that style. So, you

9:46

know, the last 15 years or

9:48

so I've been going, okay. Let's

9:50

kind of work around the universe

9:52

of what's in front of you

9:55

rather than just be murderous array

9:57

and kill the person, you know,

9:59

so. Well that's why I brought

10:01

Chino Excel up with you this

10:04

morning. I didn't know that he'd

10:06

passed man because I always felt

10:08

like, I was, whenever I listened

10:10

to Chino I'd always think of you

10:12

and vice versa. Yeah, yeah. Broke my

10:15

arm. Yeah, rest in peace, Chino Excel,

10:17

man. And he just found out today.

10:19

Yeah. He was like, hey, you ever

10:22

talked to Chino, I'm like, you

10:24

know, Chino passed. And Chino was

10:26

a friend and he was a

10:28

great lyricist. The underground, you know,

10:30

the, the, the major league underground,

10:32

you know, the Sean Price is

10:35

rest in peace, the Chino X

10:37

is rest in peace, there's like

10:39

this little slew of us and

10:41

these guys, the great ones pass,

10:43

you know, it's crazy, you

10:46

know, so Chino was a

10:48

great guy, super lyrical, underappreciated,

10:50

you know, so, yes, life, man, and I

10:52

spoke to his daughter, there was

10:54

some issue with some... There were

10:57

some issues my kids are sick

10:59

right right so there were some

11:01

issues with family The daughter owns

11:03

the estate and then other people

11:05

trying to put out music and

11:08

there was all this online and

11:10

this and that and somebody bad

11:12

mouth and a daughter I'm like

11:14

who the hell with bad mouth? Tino's

11:16

daughter. I just don't I don't get

11:19

it. I said, you know if I

11:21

pass Whatever business you're doing

11:23

on bad mouth Ella, you know

11:26

like If you got respect for,

11:28

man, don't bad mouth their daughter

11:30

online, that was weird to me,

11:33

you know? Like, bad mouth behind

11:35

closed doors say, hey, listen, we're

11:37

having a disagreement, whatever the hell,

11:40

disagreement business-wise, but I just think

11:42

it's a little weird to go

11:44

online and spur out stuff. But

11:46

hey, you know, she seemed like

11:48

a sweetheart, you know, and it's

11:50

Chino's baby, so I'll treat her

11:52

like Chino's baby, you know. Yeah, Paz,

11:54

you know, Paz, we're waiting for

11:57

his verse on the Slayer's Club

11:59

video with Chino Excel in it actually.

12:01

Chino had filmed his video part before

12:03

he passed. And I did a record

12:05

with Vinny a few years back for

12:07

his album. And he kept on it's

12:09

not on the solo album, it's on

12:11

the Jedi album. Oh no, it's not

12:13

on the Jedi album, it's on the solo

12:16

album. And I loved what I wrote on

12:18

it. And I don't know what happened to

12:20

the song. Maybe he didn't like the song,

12:22

but never came out. So I would have loved

12:24

to hear that. but love to get a

12:26

copy of it. Well we got to talk

12:28

about uncommon valor. I raised it earlier

12:31

and I know you'll have talked about

12:33

a hundred times. Probably the things I'm

12:35

going to ask you about. A lot

12:37

of stuff you've already answered a bunch

12:40

of times because I don't watch a

12:42

lot of hip-hop interviews. Yeah well this

12:44

turning into a hip-hop interview. See I

12:46

don't know what is because a Bitcoin

12:49

guy. I'm like yo his fan base

12:51

is going to hate me. But Yeah,

12:53

they're Bitcoin as a like,

12:55

they're Bitcoin as like R.A.

12:58

I'm not a Libtard, I'm, I'm, I'm,

13:00

I'm, I just don't. What was

13:02

that song you had on

13:04

earlier? I just don't like

13:06

white supremacist, neo-Nazi bastards, you

13:08

know, so. Kana was listening to

13:10

a track earlier of yours where

13:13

you were talking about, talking to

13:15

your girlfriend or your wife, took

13:17

about Men can't wear dresses,

13:20

did you know at the time

13:22

you've written it? Did you guys know

13:24

what you'd made? Did you know

13:26

that I was smashed up? No,

13:28

no. Well, I tell the story

13:30

about uncommon violet, which for the

13:32

people who are listening that aren't

13:34

really... shit, sorry, my bonus, the

13:36

people who don't really know about

13:38

it, it was a true story about

13:40

my father, whose children were

13:42

born handicapped, they were blind. Well,

13:44

my brother was blind, my sister

13:47

couldn't walk her talk, or see. and

13:49

they both died, my brother was 10 years old,

13:51

my sister was 26 years old, and it was

13:54

from a chemical that a lot of years

13:56

would know called Agent Orange that the government

13:58

sprayed on its own soldiers. in Vietnam

14:00

and the U.S. just took aid away,

14:02

you know, because we destroyed all

14:05

these people in Vietnam, their

14:07

children are exposed, people have

14:09

no limbs, their faces are

14:11

missing and we really, with

14:13

that chemical, we really obliterated

14:15

so many people. And the

14:17

Vietnamese, more than the Americans,

14:19

you know, but the Americans got

14:21

hit hard and I seen it

14:23

firsthand and now we're cutting funding.

14:25

to Agent Orange victims in Vietnam.

14:27

It's like America. America. That's what

14:29

it is, you know. So, but

14:32

yeah, oh, so the story is,

14:34

let's go back to the story.

14:36

So yeah, I wrote a story

14:38

about my verse. It was with

14:40

Vinny Pass. He wanted to do

14:42

a song. He's always doing the

14:44

Vietnam stuff. We're in the Vietnam

14:46

stuff for your father. That's still a

14:48

song about Vietnam. So stoop sends the

14:50

beat over and I start doing some

14:52

John Rambo type of stuff, you know,

14:54

you know, you know, like. me in

14:57

Vietnam type, you know, rugged, I

14:59

didn't say my name, but like,

15:01

and then stoop was like, oh, I

15:03

don't like the beat, I'm going to

15:05

give you a new beat. So I was

15:07

like, well, I already wrote my rong, and

15:10

it's a hard rhyme, the flows are

15:12

ill, and he sent me a new beat,

15:14

and I was like, yeah, this rhyme doesn't

15:16

fit to that beat. So I said,

15:19

I started writing, no, Vietnam,

15:21

killing, by whatever. And then

15:23

I was like, no, write it, write

15:25

it about your father. If it's about

15:28

Vietnam, just write the story. So I

15:30

just told the true story. And then

15:32

it really, it really like, some

15:34

of the greatest lyricists that

15:36

ever live tell me, oh, this is

15:38

one of the greatest verses ever written

15:41

in music. This is the, you know,

15:43

and everywhere I go worldwide, all

15:45

over the world, there's people who

15:47

know my father's story through that song.

15:49

So, you know, and I wrote it

15:51

before he passed. The song came out of 6,

15:54

he passed 2010, so he used to drive

15:56

around the car, called me Thorber and

15:58

John A. Staff sergeant. So it was

16:00

a beautiful thing, you know. And then the

16:03

day he passed, I had to fly to

16:05

Toronto the next day to do a show.

16:07

And as a guy, I can't do

16:09

that song, you know. That didn't tell

16:11

them, but I knew it. I said, I

16:13

can't do that song. And this is, you

16:16

know, now you guys see the soft. Daddy

16:18

daycare, rugged man, the soft, vulnerable,

16:20

rugged man, you guys see that

16:22

then. That's another YouTube rugged man.

16:24

Yeah, yeah, but at the time

16:26

it was punching your face, spit

16:28

on you, you know, I was

16:30

just, there was no softness, you

16:32

know, and it was in the

16:34

middle of Toronto, it was like

16:36

a day and a half after

16:38

my dad died and they kept

16:40

going uncommon valor, uncommon valor. And I

16:42

was like, eh, and they put it

16:44

on, I said, okay, okay, okay, okay.

16:47

So I said, do it. They're

16:49

here for that. That was the

16:51

quota board. It's a big thing

16:53

right now. And I couldn't. I

16:56

just started almost tearing up,

16:58

you know. And I said, hi.

17:00

And then I said, and the girl

17:02

I was with came and comforted

17:04

me and, you know, kissed me,

17:07

you know, it's all right. It

17:09

was so soft. But, uh, and then

17:11

that... I said let's go. I did the

17:13

song again. I was crying tears and

17:15

spit it out and the whole whole

17:17

energy was like this gutter ass reopening

17:20

of a Toronto bar and a shout

17:22

out to Cleamagore he booked it booked

17:24

the show and he was like yo you can

17:26

cancel the show if you want. I got

17:28

you and I'm like no it's it's Pat

17:30

you know you got a great attendance. I'm

17:32

coming to Toronto to do it. You know

17:34

my dad just passed as I'm going. and

17:37

the whole crowd was just like,

17:39

rugged man, rugged, all right, all

17:41

right. It was like this, one

17:43

of my most intimate show, like

17:45

moments ever in history of my career.

17:47

It was like, wow. And it wasn't

17:49

like this big giant festival, you

17:51

know, I've done those, you know,

17:53

this was just some little Toronto

17:56

thing. And when it just was

17:58

like, wow, healing to everybody. But

18:00

that was a funny story because

18:02

I used to, with girls, I

18:04

would always lie about my age.

18:06

And the girl who was taking

18:09

care of me at the time,

18:11

I, you know, she was 22,

18:13

I was probably 36, 35,

18:15

I don't remember, 36, you

18:17

know, and she was like, I

18:19

was crying to her in the hotel

18:22

room, you know, and I guess I

18:24

told the, you know, 10 years,

18:26

32, I'm 32, you know. I'm

18:28

crying and I said, you know,

18:31

my best friend, I talk to

18:33

him every day of my life

18:36

for 36 years. And she's like,

18:38

why does it for 32 years?

18:40

She's like, wait, how to fuck

18:43

all the other? 32, 32. I mean,

18:45

36, 36, you got me, got me,

18:47

so. You do the track live now?

18:49

Okay, is it still, is it still

18:51

a tough one? No, no, now, now

18:53

it's just, it still gets emotional at

18:55

times, though. It's sometimes depends who's in

18:58

the room. Like, sometimes my sister

19:00

Lily will come to the show and I

19:02

know she's in the crowd and she was like,

19:04

her and my dad were like the closest

19:06

human beings could be to each other, you

19:08

know, so. Yeah, so I'll do it in that,

19:10

and sometimes my dad wife is in the

19:12

crowd, I got, you know, she started going,

19:15

oh, this is crazy, you know, or sometimes

19:17

maybe it'll be his birthday or something. Well,

19:19

my little man John John's there, you know,

19:21

some, you know, some emotion will happen

19:23

sometimes, you know, it just, you know, it

19:25

depends what you're going through that night, you

19:28

know, so. So did you just... Did

19:30

you take it round to his

19:32

house and play in the song

19:34

after you'd written it? Well, I

19:36

interviewed him before I wrote it.

19:38

That's why I came out good.

19:40

Is that where the lyrics came

19:42

from? Yeah, I called him and I

19:44

said, hey, listen, what's this? What's

19:47

that? And he, that's the yellow

19:49

pajamas, you know, this and that's

19:51

the yellow bajamas, you know, this

19:53

and that, and this and that,

19:55

and this was the type of, What

19:58

would the micro... phallic,

20:00

you know, cerebral palsy, what

20:02

was this? And John, not

20:04

John, John. That's my son's

20:06

name. Max's eyes, it was,

20:08

and she said, cortical blindness.

20:10

So I said, oh, okay,

20:12

cool. So I interviewed the people

20:15

who had happened to him, my

20:17

stepmother, who's my mother, who's my

20:19

mother, who's my mother, who's my

20:22

mother, who's my mom, but you

20:24

know, I got two moms, you

20:26

know. But, Yeah, so I interviewed those

20:29

two, my father and my mother, and

20:31

they told me what they knew, took

20:33

the notes and wrote the rhyme, you

20:35

know. There's a lot of stuff, you

20:38

know, you add into that, make

20:40

it work, but yeah. And I heard the

20:42

story about, they would think, the

20:44

only thing that changed was,

20:46

because it was complicated. You know,

20:49

sometimes you got to change one

20:51

line to like, so the only

20:54

thing that wasn't really 100% the

20:56

same was. When the helicopter hits

20:58

in the story, a bullet hit

21:00

my chest, made it easy. Get in, get

21:02

to the next part of story. But

21:04

what it really happened is he used

21:07

to keep his gun by his balls,

21:09

because he didn't want to get his

21:11

ball shot off. Because he was the gun,

21:13

a 4,000 bullets a minute, just like I

21:16

said in the song. You know the mini

21:18

gun? You know those guns. Yeah, yeah. So,

21:20

so 4,000 bullets a minute, he would

21:22

be out there, keep the pistol. So,

21:24

when the pilot got shot in

21:26

the head and the tailor broke,

21:29

you know, and the whole thing

21:31

started spinning, the pistol

21:33

protecting his balls went

21:35

into his leg and broke

21:38

it and shattered into pieces.

21:40

And then he was

21:42

enemy territory losing blood

21:44

for six days. So he ended up

21:46

unconscious. But you know, I was like, how much

21:48

more would I have to read? The bullet went

21:50

into my leg, broke my leg. So bullet hit

21:52

my chest, boom, next part of the story. For

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that is casa. I'm... I'm hearing

22:52

all the words. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's

22:55

like a documentary and a rap song.

22:57

Well, that's what I like to do

22:59

with a lot of the songs.

23:01

I like to kind of be

23:03

almost documentarian style of wrapping for

23:05

when you do the knowledge records,

23:07

you know, you want to kind

23:09

of, you're feeding the proper information

23:11

in the reality, you know, so.

23:13

That's a proper personal song. So when

23:15

you took it to your dad and

23:18

you played it to him, did he

23:20

loved it. And Paz was like, well,

23:22

what's he going to think about mine?

23:25

Because, you know, because his is the

23:27

opposite. Like, I don't want to be

23:29

over here. And my dad loved it.

23:32

He said, yeah, that's the, I was

23:34

there. And soldiers were like that. They

23:36

said, I don't want to be here.

23:38

So, you know, so that's real.

23:40

You know, so he loved the

23:43

song, you know. Yeah. Yeah. It's,

23:45

everybody I know lies hip-hop-hop I thought

23:47

I thought it won an award. I

23:49

I tried to look it up. I

23:51

thought I'd heard it run like on

23:54

like in the source is voted best

23:56

rap ever. You got like rhyme of

23:58

the year and uh One of the

24:01

big ones and then source was

24:03

quotable it got the source quotable

24:05

that was a big deal of

24:07

the time and it did You know

24:09

the thing is it's 20 years ago. So

24:11

or 18 years ago. So if you don't

24:13

I don't keep tabs on what's

24:16

what I just remember when it

24:18

was happening this thing gave it

24:20

rhyme of the year this one gave

24:22

it that I think I think there was

24:24

even one of the decade or something, but

24:26

I got to research it. I thought it

24:28

was, I swear I read it was all

24:30

time, all time greatest rap. Oh no, there

24:32

was a. Time greatest verse. They did have,

24:34

what site was that? And they did have,

24:37

what site was that? And they had the

24:39

greatest features of all time. Yeah. And a lot

24:41

of people, oh, he should have been number one,

24:43

but they said that. And it was all

24:45

the greatest features you ever seen in hip-hop.

24:47

Like name a great feature, they was all

24:49

on there. And I think if I'm not

24:52

mistaken. If I'm not mistaken. They

24:54

gave number one to AZ for Life's a

24:56

Bitch, if I'm not mistaken, or that

24:58

was number three. But like it was around,

25:00

you know, it was that, that, yeah. But

25:02

I think I, but I was number two.

25:04

And my fans, yeah, you should have been one

25:07

with the, I said, come on, in the

25:09

history of hip-hop, there's a lot of great

25:11

features, so you know. I don't mind being

25:13

number two of every verse ever

25:16

featured in on a rap song

25:18

in history. I don't mind number

25:20

two. I'm okay with that. It's

25:22

funny, you say you interviewed your

25:24

dad for it, but like had

25:26

he told you about Vietnam growing

25:28

up or was there something you

25:30

avoided? No, my dad talked about

25:32

Vietnam with us, but he wasn't,

25:34

you know, he always looked down,

25:36

not down, but yeah, kind of down.

25:38

To soldiers that didn't even really see

25:41

that much action or didn't even or

25:43

I don't know he didn't think it was that

25:45

big of his life You know he was like it

25:47

was yeah these guys did eight months and then

25:49

they spend 60 years still talking like every

25:51

time with it get back in a minute.

25:54

It's all they want to talk about Vietnam

25:56

Vietnam. It's like he didn't want to hang

25:58

out with that. You know like Vietnam every

26:00

day of my, you know, I'm okay,

26:02

I have a life now, I lived,

26:04

and that was, I was a child,

26:06

or I don't know if he said

26:09

child, but you know, he went into

26:11

the war, he went into the war,

26:13

he went into the army of 17,

26:15

and you know, was already fighting, he

26:17

was ready to kill her at 20

26:19

I think, right? So, you know, and

26:21

then you have children that are dying

26:23

and sick kids and life in the

26:25

world, and so it was a small

26:28

part of his life, it's what he's

26:30

most known for but a lot of people

26:32

feel that way like somebody will

26:34

and I don't mean to equate

26:36

war with like art but like

26:38

somebody will make a movie you know

26:40

of starring a movie when it was 18

26:43

you know and then the 60 and

26:45

everyone hey that movie that movie that

26:47

movie and you're like I don't even

26:49

remember it barely that was when I

26:52

was 18 you know so I mean

26:54

he was in if he was a

26:56

green buret in the army And he

26:59

was highly decorated in the army and

27:01

then he was a screaming eagle

27:03

in the Air Force, you know,

27:05

or airborne, the 101st airborne, so

27:07

those are like the top tough

27:10

guys, you know, so he was a

27:12

tough guy. And he's a little guy

27:14

too. My father, about 160 pounds, you

27:16

know, he wasn't a big guy or

27:18

nothing, you know, but he was a

27:20

tough guy. And he was respected

27:23

and he was a good man,

27:25

you know, he was a good

27:27

man, but. and he used to

27:29

say they should deprogram the killers

27:31

you know they deprogram you to

27:33

be a killer and they throw

27:35

you back in the streets you

27:37

know so yeah yeah pass that does

27:39

he reflect on it i

27:41

mean i'm asking you to answer for

27:43

him but uh in terms of what they

27:46

did to the soldiers and like spraying this

27:48

aid and for you do you then now

27:50

when you see war after war after war

27:52

that we've happened how does that make you

27:55

reflect on America well he my father had

27:57

a thing he became just he had a

27:59

positive perspective You know, he's like, hey, these,

28:01

and he would say it. Yeah, you

28:03

know, put us in Vietnam, they're

28:06

making helicopters, they're making this, it's

28:08

a big money. He knew it

28:10

was what it was. He knew

28:12

it was a scam. But he

28:14

said, hey, I was a soldier. You know,

28:16

so when, you know, you say, hey, they destroyed

28:19

your children. They destroyed your family.

28:21

They did this, they did this.

28:24

He was kind of like, hey,

28:26

I was a soldier. They did he

28:28

never like when born on the 4th

28:30

of July came out and Tom cruises.

28:32

He took my legs like how is

28:35

his movies and be just crying the

28:37

whole movie you know like you know

28:39

you was a soldier so he had

28:41

that old school old g mentality where

28:44

I'll cry for him I'll be like

28:46

oh you murdered my father's children you

28:48

know and his grandchild my son Vincent.

28:51

That's my son, he's dying

28:53

of agent orange as we speak.

28:56

In the background, he was like,

28:58

the government killed my father's grandkids,

29:00

his grandkids in the corner. On

29:03

common valor too. Yeah, equal valor

29:05

too. Both of them, they're dying

29:07

of agent orange over here. How

29:10

do you think about America

29:12

now, man? Because you're like,

29:14

you're over here, everything's. crazy

29:17

in different ways. Yeah, my father would be

29:19

disgusted. He would. My father would be disgusted,

29:21

but what the hell is going on right

29:23

now, you know, and the perpetual war system,

29:26

you know, it's been going on, it's discussed,

29:28

that's been disgusting, you know. And they were, oh,

29:30

you've been silent before Trump. No, I had, listen

29:32

to every one of my songs. The last thing

29:34

I've ever been in, it's silent, you know. I've

29:36

been, uh... I was one of them speaking

29:39

up against Obama when everybody, oh how dare

29:41

you, I was the guy speaking, you know,

29:43

so I was not silent, you idiots,

29:45

you know, but now, but it's such

29:47

a cult that they want to make,

29:50

make believe, like anyone that speaks up

29:52

against their cult God is just a

29:54

libtard that's brainwashed and just started

29:56

talking up, like shut up, idiots,

29:58

no my his. No who I am,

30:01

no my speech, you know, so. It feels

30:03

like that with all politics, so

30:05

it's like everything is coldy now.

30:08

And it is coldish, you know,

30:10

on both sides, but this is...

30:12

No, this is some next level cult

30:14

stuff that I've never seen. You know,

30:17

Obama was crazy pop star cult level

30:19

stuff. This is next level weirdness. Like,

30:21

you could do whatever the hell you

30:24

want in front of their eyes. They

30:26

could see it in person and look

30:28

at him like, nope, didn't happen, nope,

30:31

nope, nope. No, that's good. It's good,

30:33

he's doing it. Oh, he's, he's, uh,

30:35

the cops. He's gonna, you know, not

30:38

keep track of what they do wrong.

30:40

That's what we should do. Like, it

30:42

doesn't matter what it is. They

30:45

just defend, defend, defend,

30:47

defend. It's like blindly

30:49

defending anything. He, you know,

30:51

and it's, it's, it's a weird

30:54

time, man. It's a weird, and

30:56

the other guy, you know, they go,

30:58

oh, age and orange, come here. Come

31:00

here. You good? But the other guy,

31:02

they say, uh, uh... No, he didn't

31:04

say hi, he didn't, he's not a

31:07

Nazi, it's all propaganda.

31:09

And then he comes, I

31:11

live in Germany and then

31:13

he comes out and he's

31:15

speaking to the freaking neo-Nazi

31:17

party, the RFD, right? And

31:19

that party, this is the guy that's

31:21

been coughing the whole video. How

31:24

you doing buddy? You gonna

31:26

bust a rap for us? You

31:28

gonna bust a rap later? All

31:30

right, go sit down, keep coughing,

31:32

keep coughing. For the last

31:34

10 years when you go there, it'll be

31:36

like pictures of like White women

31:38

running from brown people or

31:41

like Muslims are not welcome

31:43

here. It's like all this

31:45

disgusting bigoted racist disgusting garbage

31:47

and this way before you know JD

31:49

Vance is out there budding budding with

31:52

them and there are the AFD you

31:54

got to save Germany and and don't

31:56

be don't be worry about your past

31:58

Germany. That's what you know it's be

32:00

proud you know it's like oh

32:02

you're effinazi and I know that's

32:04

you know but but uh yeah so

32:07

it's way before these guys got

32:09

involved with them I'm out there

32:11

and and I was like yo

32:13

this is sick and and I would

32:15

tell the mother my kids this these

32:18

people are sick and even and it

32:20

because it always speaks out

32:22

now no I did a song with Sammy

32:24

deluxe and oh my god the legend

32:27

King Kolesovas and I did

32:29

a record with them in like 2015 and

32:32

I'm dissing that off day and saying

32:34

it can suck my dead like like

32:36

like this isn't like oh now Elon

32:38

likes someone now I got to bash

32:40

them but these people so stupid that's

32:42

what they think you know but yeah

32:44

so all this and back then it

32:46

was like before that not not that

32:48

but they would get like two or

32:50

three percent and I'm like how is that

32:52

possible and what the hell's going

32:54

on in Germany two or three

32:56

percent this is sick This is

32:58

disgusting. And then fast forward to the

33:00

new era of anti-brown, anti-black,

33:03

all this stuff, and

33:05

they're getting 20% anti-emigration,

33:07

immigrants are going to

33:09

rape and kill everybody, you

33:11

know, it's, it's, they're getting 20%

33:14

the fiermongering's working. And then

33:16

the machine behind the fiermongering, pushing

33:18

it further, is working. And

33:20

in the world's richest man, these

33:23

are the people that will

33:25

save Germany. It's like... The world

33:27

is dangerous right now, man. You

33:29

know, it's dangerous. I like Germany,

33:31

though. You picked a good place. It's

33:33

good. See, here's a great. Well, you

33:35

know, there's a lot of stuff that

33:37

you might disagree with me on because

33:40

in the past, I was, I fell

33:42

for the, not fell. You know, I leaned

33:44

because I was in America, so

33:46

I saw, you know, the government

33:48

doesn't, you know. What are they doing

33:50

for the people? They just stay, keep throwing their

33:52

cash money to war, to war, war, blow, more

33:54

stuff, all billions of billions of billions of billions

33:56

to war, pay taxes. So if you pay higher

33:58

taxes, what's it going to? War, war, war,

34:01

war, you know. So you go,

34:03

yeah, why would you raise taxes

34:05

on anybody? Why, you know, like,

34:07

get the government away from us,

34:09

wouldn't it, you know? But then

34:11

you go to a more socialized

34:14

place like Germany, and all

34:16

of a sudden, she, you know, you need

34:18

a midwife, it's covered, you

34:20

need six months off after

34:22

having a child. You're good.

34:24

You're having a mental

34:26

moment, her friends. take a

34:29

couple months off. My son being born,

34:31

my daughter being born costs me

34:33

not a nickel, you know, and

34:35

they're taking care of, they call kindergarten

34:37

even in the beginning, but if

34:40

my son wanted to go, my daughter's

34:42

son needed to go into like school at

34:44

six months old, you put him in this

34:46

thing, take care of, oh the mother has

34:49

to work, the father's to work, they could

34:51

go there every day, like so all this,

34:53

my son just got his tops out, boom,

34:55

taking care of, it's like. Then my daughter

34:58

got sick in New York when she was like,

35:00

you know, a year and a half. Did you

35:02

have to sell a kidney? Yeah, the mother got

35:04

the bill like, this isn't, this is

35:06

a mistake. I'm like, no, this is

35:09

America. And it's not even just the

35:11

free insurance free, it's also the price

35:13

gouging that they're allowed to do in

35:15

America and keep it up sort of

35:18

billionaires, you know, in America, it's like,

35:20

where Germany, yeah, you know, you know,

35:22

there's still shady shady stuff. but everything's

35:24

affordable you break a leg you

35:26

know okay cool cool even if

35:29

you don't have insurance it's like

35:31

they're not uh need your teeth

35:33

fixed it's it's all affordable where

35:35

in America if you're sick you

35:37

die unless you know I mean

35:39

it's it's just crazy well you

35:41

see with the drugs prices yeah

35:43

you cross the border into Mexico

35:45

or Canada and you can get

35:47

the same drug prices 10% of

35:49

the price and you know something shady

35:52

shady is going also you know when

35:54

I'm in America and you're

35:56

talking to righties and lefties

35:59

every day. The car Marx, Marxism, the

36:01

evil school of Marx is going

36:03

to kill your family, kill your

36:06

kids, kill everybody, because the Russians,

36:08

Marx, Marx, Marx, which, and I

36:10

believe, oh shit, this most evil

36:12

guy that ever lived. And then you

36:14

go to Germany and you're like, call

36:17

Marx Alley, call Marx and pictures

36:19

of a call. I'm like, wait, is this

36:21

the worst person ever lived? Why do I

36:23

got pictures of this guy all over the

36:26

place? So then, so then you start talking

36:28

to talking to people. I don't think

36:30

his policies worked or whatever, but

36:32

when they had him almost like

36:35

the worst human being had ever lived,

36:37

I go, well, let me look at the

36:39

other side, you know, and that's what I

36:41

try to do now. I'm not saying I'm

36:43

a Marxist, but what I'm saying

36:46

is I don't always go

36:48

for the fear-mongering version of what

36:50

was supposed to believe. I go,

36:52

let me look at both sides,

36:54

both of everything, rather than know

36:56

that I know everything. because I'm

36:58

American and this is evil and

37:00

this isn't. I kind of just

37:03

look, but I don't know. You know,

37:05

I think in this world, if you

37:07

think you know everything and you

37:09

stay stubborn and stuck to

37:11

it, you're going to be one

37:14

of them idiot grandpas that,

37:16

or grandmas, they're like, man, like,

37:18

you know, with all this

37:20

crazy ideology that's, you know, has

37:22

improved since you were, you know,

37:25

10, 10, 15 years old. He's

37:27

got the ideology of a person from

37:29

1950, you know, so I say. But

37:31

everyone's been dragged into it now. Maybe

37:34

it's social media, the 24-hour news, but

37:36

we're all part of it now. And we

37:38

all feel like we have to have an

37:40

opinion. And it's very different going to, my

37:42

pin tweet on my, you see my pin

37:44

tweet on my Twitter. I say, this is

37:46

how American sees me, this is how. Brit

37:49

see me, so the Brits think I'm like

37:51

Alex Jones and the Americans think I'm like

37:53

a rage in blue head screaming lefty. Yeah,

37:55

you think you're a lefty? Yeah, this is

37:57

black. Look, this is Americans think I'm a

37:59

lefty. And what do you

38:01

think? See that? Yeah, exactly. Americans

38:04

be like, you'd be like, don't

38:06

let a cop kill a black

38:08

person. They're like, Lefty, psychopath. You

38:10

want transgenders to rape your children?

38:12

Like, could you like you? It's

38:14

like, what? What? You got Ali

38:16

talking about. Don't kill the black

38:18

kid. Well, all I know. You

38:20

know, I didn't think that was

38:22

that, you know, you know, psychotically

38:24

left, you know, you know? I

38:26

thought it was pretty standard it.

38:28

The UK and Europe is, the

38:30

reality is different from what they're being

38:32

told. And I know my friends, they've

38:34

come over and they're like, it's really nice

38:37

here. It feels safe. I like your pubs, I

38:39

like your beer. Everyone's nice to each other. Oh,

38:41

why? Because other people think they're all stabbing you

38:43

in the face and bosoms are going to rape

38:45

you. Yep, that's, that's, I mean, look, that's

38:47

what they did in New York City. I lived

38:49

in New York my whole life. My whole life. and

38:52

they're acting like New York City's the

38:54

war zone and they're gonna if you

38:56

go to they're gonna push you in

38:58

front of train track tomorrow you're gonna

39:00

all die you know I've been walking around

39:02

with my kids strollers for the last

39:04

nine years hey you do the Bronx do

39:07

the whatever wherever you know it's like it's uh

39:09

and I'm not trying to be anecdotal me

39:11

and myself but I know families who

39:13

lived there I know people who lived there

39:15

and yeah like obviously yeah you go to

39:18

L.A. I know people who have their car

39:20

broken in too or this and that and

39:22

but then you come to Europe and

39:24

you hear oh that person you know

39:26

somebody who a baby just got kicked

39:29

in the face I don't want to

39:31

go into that I was like what

39:33

the and I was in Europe though yeah

39:35

what but uh yeah so I don't

39:37

know New York is not worse than

39:39

the 80s or 70s stop it stop

39:41

lying to yourself whoever said telling you

39:43

that it's a lie it's not worse

39:45

than 1991 92 93 stop Stop lying,

39:47

stop trying to fear and tell the

39:49

world how, you know, if you go

39:51

there you'll have a good time, I

39:54

promise. Well, no, you might be bored. It's

39:56

kind of almost a little boring compared

39:58

to back in the day. York now, but

40:00

you know, I think New York save, I've

40:02

been plenty as you know. Of course

40:04

it is. But then they'll go, then

40:07

they'll pull up a story like

40:09

someone, no, no, no bullshit, of

40:11

course. Like you can find people

40:13

who did get hurt in London, you

40:15

can find people who did get hurt

40:17

in every city in the planet, you

40:19

know, so some more than others, but like,

40:22

I mean, New York is, you know,

40:24

person on top of person, on top

40:26

of person, on top of person, but

40:28

if you're 83 New York City,

40:30

that's not what it is. You

40:32

in New York, June 9-11? Yeah. You

40:35

were there. Yeah, yeah. The first time

40:37

I went was the year after

40:39

that. Yeah, yeah, 2002. Yeah,

40:41

I was in, I was

40:43

in D&D Studio actually that

40:45

morning, till about four or

40:48

five in the morning. You

40:50

know, D&D Studio, you heard

40:52

of it. No. D&D Studio is

40:55

a legend, it was the fancier.

40:57

Spots that, you know, a lot

40:59

of people went. D&D was... Hold

41:01

on, you, I've heard that in

41:04

your lyrics, right? What? You've

41:06

mentioned D&D in your lyrics. I'm

41:08

not sure, I don't remember. Is

41:10

it in lessons? Well, you would

41:12

probably know better than me. But

41:15

D&D, uh... Yeah, so what made

41:17

D&D legendary was Premier had a

41:19

room in there, and so every

41:21

iconic Premier record that you

41:23

ever heard? up until until he

41:25

closed was in that room.

41:28

So if it was, you

41:30

know, his biggest song, Biggie,

41:32

or his, or naz, or

41:34

whoever it was, JZ, it

41:37

was all in D&D, because

41:39

that's where he, that was

41:41

his comfort room, that room,

41:43

you know. So, and then

41:45

a lot of other greats,

41:47

you know, underground, you know,

41:49

so, yeah. So, September. tent

41:51

I had studio there and

41:54

I stayed over you know till about four or

41:56

five in the morning and I lived in

41:58

Jamaica Queens at the time and I hop

42:00

in taxi went to sleep a couple

42:02

hours later I got a call I

42:04

didn't even think it was that big a

42:06

deal I didn't know what the hell was

42:08

happening you know somebody oh a plane the

42:10

plane and I'm thinking like when you

42:13

hear about a plane crash you know I'm

42:15

like oh that sounds crazy I was you

42:17

know I'm like oh that sounds crazy I

42:19

was you know I was you know I

42:21

was two and a half hours sleep and

42:23

my man was mad at me because I

42:25

didn't know what the hell was really I

42:27

was like you And I went back to sleep

42:29

to know what the hell. And then,

42:31

and then I got a phone call from

42:33

a girlfriend's dad, who the

42:35

girlfriend was from out of town,

42:37

and she was living in New York.

42:39

And he's like, where is she? So

42:41

what's going? And then he, and I

42:43

said, oh, the whole world's panicking about

42:46

this, this is something, you know. And

42:48

then I kind of. Woke up and

42:50

realized what that was happening. But when

42:52

I was told I was so half

42:54

asleep, I didn't know what the hell

42:56

the size of it was. And then

42:58

I knew people who lived like right

43:00

there and put their camera right out

43:03

the window. My boy, oh, Frank

43:05

Kenenlada, he put the camera right out

43:07

the window and filmed it. So

43:09

that's why when they were doing all that,

43:11

look out the window. I mean, look

43:14

at the footage, is the plane really

43:16

didn't hit it? And I would go online

43:18

and go like, no, I got, I

43:20

actually, he filmed it with my camera.

43:22

My, what was it, Canon Excel was

43:24

it called? I forgot what the camera

43:26

was called. I bought like a $4,800

43:28

camera. When I was directing videos for

43:30

like smart peddlers and all that stuff,

43:32

that was with this camera I bought.

43:34

And, uh, um. He put the camera out the window

43:37

and filmed it on my camera, I have the

43:39

tape of it, of the plane hitting, the second

43:41

plane hitting. He didn't get the first one, but

43:43

what happened while the plane was on fire, he

43:45

was, you see him, and you hear him like

43:47

this and his hand is out the window filming

43:50

it. And then, and then, and then, boom, the

43:52

second, so he got the second plane hitting the

43:54

new, oh, so everyone, no, this fake, this fake, I

43:56

was fake, I was like, well, well, this footage, this

43:58

footage is fake, I, I own. real footage of

44:00

it. My man, Hen and Lada, legendary

44:03

B movie director, he put his camera

44:05

out the window and we got, you

44:07

know, so I said, conspiracies, you crazy,

44:09

this shit happened, we're in New York,

44:12

we saw it, you know, like. This

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That is leger.com. So that would have

45:07

been right about when you were just

45:09

first coming up then. Because that I

45:12

mean you've talked about the jive records

45:14

thing a bunch of times you probably

45:16

don't want to do it again But

45:18

that feels like a no that was

45:20

wait jive was jive. I started getting

45:22

buzz 89-90 when I was when I

45:25

was a little kid and then jive

45:27

I think I got a bidding war

45:29

with jive around 92 so the gas

45:31

from jive to people that wouldn't

45:33

work with me, kind of

45:35

got older, started doing bigger

45:37

records, and people, so no,

45:39

nobody, I really was, and

45:42

talk to any rapper from

45:44

that era, they was there, they knew,

45:46

I was, they was all scared of

45:48

me, it was just crazy times. So,

45:50

but what happened is a lot

45:52

of them people that wouldn't

45:54

work with me, kind of got

45:57

older, started doing bigger

45:59

records. Backstreet Boys, stuff like

46:01

that. And I ended up, you

46:03

know, the cool kids, you know, Rock

46:05

Ears, they started coming back to

46:08

me and, hey, you know, you're

46:10

a legend, hey, work with us. So

46:12

a lot of cool up and coming

46:14

hip-hop people started reaching out

46:16

to me. And that's how

46:18

the kind of rebirth happened

46:21

through. I had did a concert that

46:23

a huge concert with like, a

46:25

lot of big press was there and

46:27

I started a big riot. And

46:30

I tell the story often

46:32

too, but it was a jive showcase.

46:35

And then, uh... Oh no, you

46:37

started a jive showcase. Yeah, yeah,

46:39

yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was

46:41

a big riot, and it was

46:43

a big crazy violence, nuts-so

46:46

riot, and Hook is

46:48

a duct-taped, and it

46:50

was a crazy time. So,

46:52

so, yeah, fun days. But, but,

46:55

um, yeah, so, yeah, after that...

46:57

It was a lot of problems and

46:59

I was kind of put on freeze.

47:01

How long was that period? 12 years

47:03

between? Well, no, then what happened is

47:05

things started, I started doing vinos

47:07

and making a living doing vinos

47:09

about, I think the freeze was

47:11

about five years, my guess, because

47:13

all of a sudden, raucous, and

47:16

not raucous, Europe started calling, like five

47:18

years later, but there was a time

47:20

where I couldn't book a show because...

47:23

after after the the meltdown showcase with

47:25

with the riots and fights and all

47:27

this stuff every show I had lined

47:30

up they saw we can't have you

47:32

nobody we can't have you can't

47:34

have you so they started canceling

47:36

my shows so it wasn't it

47:38

wasn't a blackball like I it

47:40

wasn't like legally you can't it

47:42

was like it was just blackboard you

47:45

canceled yeah it was canceled at

47:47

the time yeah yeah so uh But

47:49

then, you know, like that faded away

47:51

and it was, you know, I was

47:53

blessed to be able to come back, you

47:56

know, so yeah. So what was night

47:58

of the bloody apes then? So

48:00

that was just... Was that the stuff

48:02

that you were going to release first?

48:04

No, that was stuff I recorded when

48:07

I was a teenager for Jive. Yeah.

48:09

Was that going to be the record?

48:11

Yeah, yeah, that was what we were

48:13

doing. And it was with my producer

48:16

Niles and I think Eric Sermon, trackmasters

48:19

and Buckwild. Yeah. But anyway,

48:21

finally, Die Ragged Man Die. You tell

48:23

me this morning as a double EP

48:26

and I'm like, what? It's a double

48:28

EP and I'm like. And I didn't want

48:30

to put out an album without being

48:32

able to produce it the way I

48:34

wanted to produce it, you know. And

48:36

so I said, let's just call it

48:38

a double EP, you know. Had some

48:41

older songs on their beats I had

48:43

already on two inch reel. I didn't

48:45

have money to get beads, record them,

48:47

mixed them. It's not like today, anyone

48:49

could record a song out of it. You

48:51

had to go to the studio with two

48:53

inch reel real tape and blah, blah, blah,

48:56

blah. And I just didn't have the money

48:58

or manpower or the engineer. I didn't even

49:00

have a DJ to script. Like I was

49:02

in a bad shape. So the label said, yeah, but

49:04

we got to, if we're going to put it

49:07

out for you, we want to call it an

49:09

album. I said, I don't want nobody to think

49:11

that's my first debut album. But I said, let's call

49:13

it a WEP. And he's like, what the thing is

49:15

a WEP? The thing is a WEP.

49:18

What the thing

49:20

is a double-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E

49:22

He said, yeah, so we did a,

49:24

they said, we'll put it out as,

49:26

you know, the, I said, sure. And

49:29

I kind of didn't like the artwork

49:31

for the album. I didn't think the

49:33

album was complete as an album. You

49:35

still feel like that? Yeah. I think,

49:38

you know, I think chains, lessons, I think

49:40

there's great moments on it, but I

49:42

think for my first album, if I

49:44

had time to make like five dangers,

49:46

more. on the level of chains and

49:49

lessons and kind of weed out some

49:51

of the songs that were already released

49:53

like on the block was already out

49:55

you know stuff but uh but lessons

49:58

it felt to me like lessons kind

50:00

of blew up. Yeah that's huge yeah

50:02

and change is huge too and those

50:04

are the last two records I had

50:06

recorded for that album right because I

50:08

only recorded like four new songs for

50:10

it and those were two of them

50:13

so like I said if I was able

50:15

to record another 10 I think I

50:17

would have had like the one but that

50:19

said is I and I tell young artists

50:21

this now don't ever because I used to

50:24

think I could do don't ever diss your

50:26

work your own work. There'll be people out

50:28

there to do that for you. But

50:30

because somebody plays a record that

50:32

you might not be happy with and it

50:34

was their childhood, it was their life, they

50:37

loved it, they lived it, it was amazing.

50:39

So you'll say that's not good and they're

50:41

going that's the greatest record I

50:44

ever heard in their mind and

50:46

then you're bad-mouthed in it. Fans listen

50:48

to your art and they decide what they feel

50:50

about the art rather than you telling them oh

50:52

I could have done better I because I used

50:54

to do that people like I love this song

50:57

I'm like that song sucks the mix isn't good

50:59

enough about and you know but this is what's

51:01

happening right now what because I'm I'm in direct

51:03

a man I was a I listened to that

51:05

relentlessly for a year probably like Two, three years

51:07

is over and over. A lot of people

51:10

did. Yeah, and then here's you telling me.

51:12

So I shouldn't have done that. Yeah. That's

51:14

why I brought that up because I wasn't

51:16

taking my own advice. Yeah. Because people do

51:19

love and in fact, you know, the albums

51:21

that I'm very very proud of, you know,

51:23

Legend of Die and All My Hands are

51:25

dead and I've had people in my

51:27

inbox like, you should go back to the

51:29

Die, rugged man, days, that's your classic. So

51:31

you know, so you do have that's your

51:33

classic. So you do have that's your classic.

51:36

More too, you know, but There's a lot of

51:38

people who the die regular man die was your

51:40

last good record Okay, cool. That's what they thought

51:42

and it's a record I'm not proud of but

51:44

but now through the years You got to go

51:46

no be proud of that you have something out

51:48

there that the fans are gravitating towards that

51:50

love that they love and I was proud

51:53

of lessons and I was proud of a

51:55

star is born There's records on it that

51:57

I'm proud of you know, but what happened

51:59

is a lot? of songs were kind

52:01

of released like black and white was

52:03

out already on the block was out already

52:05

you know so maybe that's what it

52:07

was like I wanted to everything fresh

52:09

brand new on the album and but

52:11

to me when I hear it it's

52:13

all fresh brand new yeah and that's

52:15

the new thing I forgot I was

52:17

talking to one of the younger artists

52:20

yeah maybe it was webby or something

52:22

I forgot which the younger I think

52:24

it was Chris webby but I could

52:26

be wrong so if Chris webby didn't say

52:28

this scratch it but if he did it

52:30

hey Chris knows you know but he had

52:33

said no oh the way you do it

52:35

now if it's Chris I think it's

52:37

Chris you just released songs

52:40

every month or two you know you

52:42

put seven or eight out and it

52:44

beefs up the Spotify numbers because

52:46

the new song new song new

52:49

song and then you released the

52:51

album and it'll have seven or

52:53

eight old songs on it but A

52:55

month or two after that the fans won't even

52:57

remember that those were old songs at the time

52:59

and it boosted your Spotify numbers up and the

53:02

album still exists and still selling. So that sounded

53:04

like interesting if I'm like that's kind of what

53:06

I did on Die Reg again die. So this

53:08

band, the architect, so I didn't see them last

53:10

night. So they announced the album whenever and one

53:12

track was came out and then you would see

53:15

the album on Spotify and there's the tracks you

53:17

can hear and the tracks you can't hear. And

53:19

so they must release for release four or five

53:21

or five or five in advance. and then they're

53:23

doing all these shows every day this week they

53:26

did two shows in London yesterday you

53:28

get the fans in to boost it

53:30

but what was interesting is people were

53:32

singing the new songs from the new

53:34

album straight away so I mean I

53:36

think his advice is right but even

53:38

though con the music you listen to

53:40

a lot of people just really songs

53:43

is do you think about albums as much

53:45

no it's just songs isn't it yeah

53:47

well well they they do it less because

53:49

of tracks you show me in the past

53:51

it seems like albums followed a storyline yeah

53:53

first song to the last song it all just

53:55

went in order whereas now it's kind of

53:57

just like a bunch of random stuff put

54:00

I wait for albums still. I want

54:02

the whole album. But they do. Connor

54:04

will play me a song and I'm

54:06

like, where's the album? There's no album.

54:08

Yeah, well, if you go to like

54:10

the new school kids, like Lil Nars

54:13

X or something, right? Or hops in

54:15

before him, you know? Uh, Lil Nars X

54:17

I think had like two or

54:19

three number one hit songs. And

54:21

you're thinking, oh, this guy has must

54:24

have platinum albums. He never had

54:26

released a album, but it was...

54:28

The Old Town Road, number one

54:30

for 40, and it had beat

54:32

the Beatles, every song ever made

54:34

up to that point, I think,

54:36

22 weeks in a row, number

54:38

one. And then he dropped, what's

54:41

a famous little Nasek song, the

54:43

big hits? Yeah, what's that called?

54:45

Whatever the hell it is, yeah.

54:47

So, number one hit, number one

54:49

hit, I think you had like

54:51

two or three number ones and

54:53

never put out an album. So,

54:56

and before that. go back a decade

54:58

and a half is Hobson. I saw him,

55:00

he used to like put these, what, the

55:02

twisted mind of Hobson won, you know,

55:04

he do the mind of Hobson number

55:06

two, three, four, and this and that,

55:08

and one of them things did like

55:11

140 million views, or maybe more

55:13

by now, maybe 200 million, I don't

55:15

know what I mean, and he kept

55:17

putting those out and videos and they

55:19

would just get tens of millions

55:21

of views, some of them over

55:23

100 million. And then I think his

55:25

album was Knock Madness or something. Nobody,

55:27

like people were waiting for it, but then

55:29

it came out and kind of just went. And

55:31

then it wasn't about his, you know, his

55:34

career wasn't about his album. So that's the

55:36

first time I seen that. And it probably

55:38

happened before that. But that's the first time

55:40

I said, oh, you know what? He didn't even need

55:43

to drop that out. That album didn't really,

55:45

it did what it did, but, but his, it's all

55:47

his. leads to the album and the songs he

55:49

puts out and I was like, oh, okay. So

55:51

I always think about doing it like that, but

55:53

I just don't. I don't know. I'm working on

55:55

my new album. So I don't know, you know,

55:58

like, I think I just got the old. school

56:00

old mentality and the thing

56:02

with me I don't put out a

56:04

ton of material I think the fact

56:07

that I do do these albums it

56:09

really you know and and put it

56:11

all into the album when I do

56:13

my live shows though they really like

56:15

they know you know it's not like a sporadic

56:18

single that was there that

56:20

maybe they heard maybe they didn't the

56:22

sporadic single but maybe they heard maybe

56:24

they didn't they know if they're a

56:26

fan they get the r a album

56:29

and they listen to the song and

56:31

they listen to the album over and

56:33

over so when you pull any of

56:35

the songs off at any of my

56:38

albums the fans know every lyric to

56:40

one of them songs you know so

56:42

as far as stage show wise it's

56:44

been a it's been working for me

56:46

you know like my stage shows you

56:48

haven't been to my show in 20 years

56:50

but uh they really do uh They're

56:52

on the money, the fans really get

56:54

the, they really feel like they got

56:57

their money's worth, you know. I missed

56:59

that last Jazz Cafe show because I

57:01

was in America. Oh yeah, Jazz Cafe,

57:03

shout out to the Jazz Cafe. Every

57:05

time, you know, there was somebody at

57:07

the Jazz Cafe for decades that, because

57:10

everyone was like, when are you going

57:12

to play the Jazz Cafe? And I'm

57:14

like, hey, they just don't like me

57:16

or something. I never got booked there.

57:18

It's perfect place for you. I get

57:21

an email from Karen, one of my

57:23

bookers from Germany, and she was like,

57:25

oh, the Jazz Cafe on this date.

57:27

I was like, wait, I don't get

57:29

booked, did each other, we went. And

57:31

when I went there, I'm like, you

57:33

know what I mean? It's like, yeah,

57:36

the last booker had something I didn't

57:38

like you or something, that's what somebody

57:40

told me. I don't know if it's

57:42

true, I'm not vouching. And then they

57:45

booked me, you know, I think five,

57:47

six, seven times since and it sold

57:49

out every time. So, and the energy

57:51

at the Jazz Cafe is freaking beautiful.

57:53

Yeah. But I tell this story often too

57:55

is, you know, you got, what do

57:57

you call it, you got to, um, don't.

58:00

get too big for your head, you

58:02

know, whatever. Or whatever, because I was

58:04

like, I think it was like the

58:06

third or fourth time I sold out

58:09

the Jazz Cafe. I was like, oh,

58:11

and these, they didn't want that, whoever

58:13

the guy before didn't want me, look,

58:15

I'm doing good numbers. But I had

58:18

sold out the Jazz Cafe, the energy

58:20

was great, beautiful people, raw energy, and

58:22

then I get back to my hotel

58:24

and uh, flavor. And I said, yeah,

58:27

just, you know, played the Jazz Cafe,

58:29

killed it. I said, what are you

58:31

guys doing in town? Like, we just

58:33

did Wembley. I was like, you guys

58:36

got that. You know, but that's public

58:38

enemy, you know, the most iconic rap

58:40

group in history, arguably. You know, so.

58:42

What do you think of modern hip-up?

58:45

Depends who it is. There's not much

58:47

I listen to you. But I'll tell

58:49

you. There are great, great lyricists. It's

58:51

just that. You know, commercial rap music

58:54

doesn't display it as much, you know.

58:56

I mean, the world is saying Kendrick

58:58

is the lyrical guy, but I think

59:01

he's lyrical, but he's not a guy

59:03

that does it for me. Well, oh,

59:05

I never, you know, that's not for

59:07

me, you know, I'm never intimidated by

59:10

his bars, you know, but when I

59:12

do go online and I see some

59:14

of the youth. There's so many incredibly

59:16

good spittas. It's not like everyone is

59:19

whack, but it's just that the incredibly

59:21

good spittas usually are promoted, you know?

59:23

Kendrick is praised, I think, because he

59:25

is promoted and is a lyricist, you

59:28

know? So, you know. I've never made

59:30

it through a whole Kendrick album. My

59:32

old producer, Danny, you'll listen to this,

59:34

because we guys have this argument. I

59:37

would say to him, what's their name.

59:39

Back to Black Singer. Oh Drake? No,

59:41

no. Amy Wine, I was going to

59:43

know why he lost me. I said

59:46

to him... That was the last great

59:48

album that was made because music changed

59:50

after that wouldn't win all Spotify I

59:52

always just say that as like a

59:55

point in time when things changed him.

59:57

That's when you turn to grandpa. Yeah,

59:59

basically. Yeah, basically. Yeah, because it happens

1:00:01

in the morning. I go to school,

1:00:04

well I'm not Connor anymore, but when

1:00:06

I take my daughter to school, they

1:00:08

play the same stuff. It's this kind

1:00:11

of auto tune, rap and he's like,

1:00:13

no, Kendrick Lamar's. Yeah, yeah to kill

1:00:15

a butterfly to a pimp to pimp

1:00:17

a butterfly is it? No, this is

1:00:20

it and I put it on I

1:00:22

think I made like three songs. I

1:00:24

was like yes, I can't get into

1:00:26

it. Yeah, I'm I'm there with your

1:00:29

grandpa Yeah, what about Jay Koch? Yeah,

1:00:31

you know, I like I like some

1:00:33

Jay Koh songs. I like some of

1:00:35

them, you know, I didn't think he

1:00:38

responded too good to Kendrick I was

1:00:40

in like oh, you know, I thought

1:00:42

you know I thought his rap was

1:00:44

okay you know but he did some

1:00:47

interesting storytelling songs that I liked in

1:00:49

the past you know I think that

1:00:51

I think that they're top tier for

1:00:53

like a commercial audience like if though

1:00:56

you know they're not getting they're not

1:00:58

pushing lyricism anymore so those guys are

1:01:00

actual lyricists so it's nice to see

1:01:02

but I think like everybody in my

1:01:05

crew will eat all of them up

1:01:07

you know yeah we um like honestly

1:01:09

like When I put on a killer

1:01:12

priest album, he'll do like four albums

1:01:14

in a year priest, you know. And

1:01:16

when I put on a deliricism in

1:01:18

some of that stuff in the paint,

1:01:21

the pictures, I'm like, I like stuff

1:01:23

that I'm like, how the hell did

1:01:25

a human being think about that? How

1:01:27

did they write that? How did they

1:01:30

create that? And something that just almost

1:01:32

makes me jealous, like, damn, if I

1:01:34

thought of that, you know? I don't

1:01:36

get that from a lot of the

1:01:39

highly, you know, high up guys at

1:01:41

a high... a claim right now, you

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Is that because the, I always blame

1:02:44

the algorithms, I think it's the same,

1:02:46

we'll get onto film, but I think

1:02:49

the algorithms, social media. I'm not sure

1:02:51

what it does, you know, and people

1:02:53

go with a trend and... Go with

1:02:55

a trend, go with a trend. And

1:02:58

they did have that whole thing where

1:03:00

they went, there was like a 10,

1:03:02

because when wrappers really started getting terrible

1:03:04

at wrapping in mainstream music, they did

1:03:07

this thing like, oh, what are you

1:03:09

lyrical? What are you lyrical, lyrical, lyrical?

1:03:11

Like they started doing this like attack

1:03:14

on lyricism, you know, like, it's about

1:03:16

the vibes, what are you like, lyrics?

1:03:18

Yeah, it's like, oh, it's kind of

1:03:20

like. It's an excuse to be part

1:03:23

of the dumbed down, you know, and

1:03:25

accept being dumbed down. You know, it's

1:03:27

like, you know, I mean, imagine, you

1:03:29

know, yo, but it happened in singing

1:03:32

too, because honestly, like when you listen

1:03:34

to Patti LaBelle or some of these

1:03:36

singing singers, like singers, who's the woman

1:03:38

who sang, she did the backup singers?

1:03:41

She had Lisa Fisher, like these women

1:03:43

could sing. And I was in a

1:03:45

studio with the soulful singer and I

1:03:47

wanted her to blow. like you know

1:03:50

like I knew she could I seen

1:03:52

to do it before like a like

1:03:54

a karaoke thing or like a maybe

1:03:56

a performance she did and she was

1:03:59

singing I said nah you gotta and

1:04:01

she was like really and she started

1:04:03

going crazy just blowing and she said

1:04:05

nah you know the thing is my

1:04:08

manager said uh don't do that you

1:04:10

know it's you know you gotta just

1:04:12

they don't want that you know and

1:04:15

she and when you listen to her

1:04:17

songs it was all kind of like

1:04:19

one tone kind of like this and

1:04:21

she wasn't blowing. So they even dumbed

1:04:24

down, you know, they won't patty labell

1:04:26

the vocals no more. They'll go, keep

1:04:28

it like, yo, like, and even if

1:04:30

you go Charlie Wilson, who, one of

1:04:33

the great singers in history and great

1:04:35

performers, when you listen to his songs,

1:04:37

half, but those are auto tuned. It's

1:04:39

not because you can't sing, it's because

1:04:42

it's the sounds of whatever the hell,

1:04:44

you know, you know, it is. I'm

1:04:46

like, they got a great singer, because

1:04:48

it's part of modern music of the

1:04:51

sound of people used to and auto

1:04:53

tune came in for a lot of

1:04:55

people that couldn't sing they had to

1:04:57

tune them they had to tune them

1:05:00

you know and if you listen to

1:05:02

all records the singers didn't need to

1:05:04

be tuned and even if they were

1:05:06

out of tune they'd have a have

1:05:09

a flavor to it that made it

1:05:11

better than being perfectly tuned but music

1:05:13

changes time like filmmaking like filmmaking like

1:05:16

right now everything like even the film

1:05:18

I'm working on I'll see mistakes and

1:05:20

I'm like oh I can't bring the

1:05:22

camera and like and the editor and

1:05:25

the V effects guys like that's fixed

1:05:27

in one second just take remove the

1:05:29

hands here I'm like wait I can

1:05:31

use that shot he's like yeah just

1:05:34

So I'm like, oh, so I can

1:05:36

be incompetent in that shot I directed

1:05:38

and you could just make it fine?

1:05:40

Oh, so, you know what I mean?

1:05:43

It's like crazy, like, you know, so,

1:05:45

which it's, it's, it's not, I'm not

1:05:47

saying it's a bad thing either. It's

1:05:49

just different times, you know, studios, you're

1:05:52

allowed to, I bring this up. Back

1:05:54

in a day, you had to, before

1:05:56

they had technology, you had to go

1:05:58

there with your band, play the song,

1:06:01

play the song perfectly, that everybody knew

1:06:03

the song perfectly and they jammed out

1:06:05

and make something beautiful, perfect one thing.

1:06:07

You know, but now it's like, oh,

1:06:10

you could have just the basis going

1:06:12

in, perfect that base all night, boom,

1:06:14

you know. It was like, oh, wow,

1:06:17

put it in there. So you have

1:06:19

a... So the music can be still

1:06:21

beautiful and perfect and great, but it's

1:06:23

just a different way to get there,

1:06:26

you know? When I was a kid,

1:06:28

you had to record perfectly on your

1:06:30

tunes real where you wanted it, how

1:06:32

many bars you wanted in between, who

1:06:35

you wanted, who you wanted in between,

1:06:37

the verses, who you wanted to put

1:06:39

where, you had to place it in

1:06:41

the right places, because you didn't have

1:06:44

the digital technology, you moved it out

1:06:46

there, moved it, and you had to

1:06:48

make a song on the spot, different

1:06:50

times, different times. and easier times in

1:06:53

a lot of ways. Do you think

1:06:55

something ripped the soul out a little

1:06:57

bit? Well, in some cases it probably

1:06:59

does, but I think a soulful person

1:07:02

that has those tools can make something

1:07:04

soulful in a different way. And a

1:07:06

lot of people, you know, the first

1:07:08

one that I remembered, I'm sure there's

1:07:11

ones before this, but the first one

1:07:13

I remembered where they'd question it was,

1:07:15

there was, I'll be sure who made

1:07:17

a classic new Jack Swing album, you

1:07:20

know, Eddie F and Teddy and all

1:07:22

these guys. Mount Vernon Heavy D was

1:07:24

in his corner and all of this

1:07:27

stuff and he made a great album

1:07:29

and Then I think it was Oprah

1:07:31

this is all from memory so I

1:07:33

Somebody said oh they say you can't

1:07:36

really sing and he sang live on

1:07:38

one of these shows and a lot

1:07:40

of people see you can't really sing

1:07:42

you can't sing it was like no

1:07:45

he can sing it was just the

1:07:47

effect they put so many effects they

1:07:49

put so many effects if you listen

1:07:51

to be sure's first album there was

1:07:54

so many effects on the vocals but

1:07:56

it was flavor it was cool and

1:07:58

I'll be sure made a great album

1:08:00

with great producers great songs great melodies

1:08:03

so it's kind of like hey if

1:08:05

we accepted I'll be sure with all

1:08:07

those effects and compressions or whatever they

1:08:09

did on it you know you can

1:08:12

you know that one yeah the new

1:08:14

one we've never really had a big

1:08:16

hip-hop scene in the UK hip-hop scene

1:08:18

in the UK hip-hop scene like we've

1:08:21

never really had a big hip-hop scene

1:08:23

in the UK You know how we've

1:08:25

had rock bands and indie bands go

1:08:28

up and blow up America. We haven't

1:08:30

really had that with hip-hop here. I

1:08:32

mention my boy Stig of the Dumb

1:08:34

who I love. Stig Dixon. I mean

1:08:37

I love him but he never really

1:08:39

blew up and we have a few

1:08:41

people but this whole grime and drill

1:08:43

scene really has. My boy loves drill.

1:08:46

Love's drill. Well what I think that

1:08:48

is I think it's a little bit

1:08:50

of the elitist thing you know because

1:08:52

I remember I was

1:08:55

in England probably around when I was

1:08:57

torn with sticking a dump maybe I

1:08:59

might be wrong with the time but

1:09:01

I Went to a couple somebody was

1:09:04

battling something I see seen a British

1:09:06

battle and I was like yo these

1:09:08

dudes are really sharp with their punch

1:09:10

lines But I was like oh, it's

1:09:13

the British accents. It's it's the thing

1:09:15

is the elitist American accent is we

1:09:17

are the creator, we are America, and

1:09:19

if you're here, well, you know, I

1:09:22

can't imitate you. Yeah, yeah, but. Then

1:09:24

all of a sudden it's like, oh,

1:09:26

they must not be, say no, if

1:09:28

you get over that accent, listen to

1:09:30

the lyrics, he's actually eaten up that

1:09:33

American rapper, you know, so that's that

1:09:35

stuff too, is elitism, you know, but

1:09:37

there's great, there's great rappers and lyricists

1:09:39

all over the planet Earth, and lyricists

1:09:42

all over the planet Earth, and lyricists

1:09:44

all over the planet Earth. Ragged Bone

1:09:46

Man. Yeah. You go to his stuff,

1:09:48

he got like billion views on the

1:09:51

song, right? Well, two billion views. He

1:09:53

got some of the biggest songs of

1:09:55

the decade, man. In fact, when I

1:09:57

was working on All My Heroes are

1:10:00

Dead, I had a song, I wanted

1:10:02

him to get on the chorus for

1:10:04

it, but I mean, he's just doing

1:10:06

big records. And he was like, yeah,

1:10:09

I would love to, you know, and

1:10:11

we talked about it. Yo, he's like,

1:10:13

I'm hanging with my girl, my kids

1:10:15

aren't. I forgot what he said, but

1:10:18

maybe he was alone with his new

1:10:20

wife or whatever, I forgot the conversation.

1:10:22

I'll be in the studio next three

1:10:24

days, I get it done. And then

1:10:26

I just think that life happens and

1:10:29

he never got it done and I

1:10:31

haven't talked to him since but I

1:10:33

was trying to get rag and bone

1:10:35

on one of the choruses for that

1:10:38

for that all my years of dead

1:10:40

album I think it would have been

1:10:42

great for it. They took me to

1:10:44

see this guy Central C. Do you

1:10:47

know him? He's a drill guy here.

1:10:49

Oh yeah. He's not drill? No. I

1:10:51

thought he was drill. You kind of...

1:10:53

I put it all together. I put

1:10:56

it all together. Grandad. Granddad. gang-related stuff.

1:10:58

It's a lot of like young kids

1:11:00

on the street and most of it's

1:11:02

filled by bribery and gang killing. I

1:11:05

swear they make up words to make

1:11:07

things rhyme though. They just invent all

1:11:09

these new words to make things rhyme.

1:11:11

We have a good few. I don't

1:11:14

know if you know Dave, Santam Dave,

1:11:16

he's he's a proper lyricist. There's a

1:11:18

few like alternative ones, a guy called

1:11:20

Loyal Carna, he's good. They had me

1:11:22

do the song, Leaf does the beats

1:11:25

and the hours, the four hours, you

1:11:27

know what I mean? No, the four

1:11:29

hours, it's not grime, it's like, they

1:11:31

do O.G. type of hip-hop, they did

1:11:34

stuff with Primo and stuff, yeah. Right,

1:11:36

let's talk about film, man. Oh, let's

1:11:38

go. Because we're gonna have to go

1:11:40

and eat soon. Cough and Joe, you'll

1:11:43

be coming. Cough and Joe, I just

1:11:45

bought this, the box, the box set,

1:11:47

shout out, shout out, shout out to

1:11:49

arrow, Are you the film director? Yeah,

1:11:52

yeah filmmaking. It makes me think of

1:11:54

Rob Zombie. I don't know why, but

1:11:56

Rob Zombie made their switch, does music,

1:11:58

then does film, I'm sure you know.

1:12:01

of his films. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

1:12:03

You know, I love Rob being able

1:12:05

to do it and having a successful

1:12:07

career and stuff. I'm not a fan

1:12:10

of his films, but, and that's not

1:12:12

a dis. I wanted to, I supported,

1:12:14

I went to see a couple of

1:12:16

them in a theater to check them

1:12:18

out. You know, it's a quiet taste,

1:12:21

you know. So, mine I think, I

1:12:23

think what I'm working with is a

1:12:25

little more depraved, a little bit more

1:12:27

sexual, a little bit more sexual, over-the-top

1:12:30

comedic, you know? Rob is, uh, his

1:12:33

films are kind of like mean-spirited, the

1:12:35

characters are kind of all mean, you

1:12:37

know, characters all curse a lot, the

1:12:39

characters are all trash, not every movie.

1:12:41

I didn't see the, uh, the ones

1:12:43

I seen, you know, but, uh, much

1:12:46

loved Rob Zombie, you know, I don't

1:12:48

want to pass Rob Zombie. I think,

1:12:50

I think he's, it's great, because he's

1:12:52

a film fan, and he's a Marx

1:12:54

brother's brother. You go to his house

1:12:57

and it's all memorabilia of all the

1:12:59

stuff that we all love and I'm

1:13:01

I love seeing Rob in fact when

1:13:03

I go see Rob zombie movie I

1:13:05

was rooting to like it and a

1:13:08

lot of times I'm like I didn't

1:13:10

really enjoy that one you know but

1:13:12

it's just not my taste a lot

1:13:14

of it you know yeah but why

1:13:16

the switch to movies what's the what's

1:13:18

the what's the well you know night

1:13:21

of bloody apes was a Mexican movie

1:13:23

you know I was a film fan

1:13:25

of my whole life though and I

1:13:27

wanted to make movies my whole life

1:13:29

actually and what happened is I was

1:13:32

doing good at you know I was

1:13:34

paying the bills with wrapping and I

1:13:36

was releasing music and that's what everybody

1:13:38

wanted from me and I love doing

1:13:40

it and I love performing and I

1:13:43

you know got my kids a place

1:13:45

to live with with music and it

1:13:47

was like really like that's where I'm

1:13:49

at and then it was like the

1:13:51

one thing though I was I make

1:13:53

enough money to do well for them,

1:13:56

but I don't get tons of money

1:13:58

in a bank where I'm rich, you

1:14:00

know? So I have to continue to

1:14:02

tour, I have to continue to do

1:14:04

the rap and live and eat. So

1:14:07

I was like, yeah, I'll do the

1:14:09

movie soon, I'll do the movie soon,

1:14:11

I'll do a movie soon. Then I

1:14:13

wrote the script, everybody really loved it.

1:14:15

And I was like, what's soon? You

1:14:18

know, you're not going to do it.

1:14:20

You don't do it now, you're not

1:14:22

going to do it. I said, yeah,

1:14:24

but then you're going to have to

1:14:26

put your rap career on hold. This

1:14:28

is right now, people want already the

1:14:31

rugged man. You know, like, you can't

1:14:33

put your shit on hold. Now I'm

1:14:35

like, yeah, but you'll be dead. You

1:14:37

ain't gonna be here long, bro. You

1:14:39

gonna do it or not? You know,

1:14:42

it's time. You gotta do it. So

1:14:44

if you want to start making movies,

1:14:46

you gotta do it. So I said,

1:14:48

put the wrap on hold for a

1:14:50

minute and knock one out and got

1:14:53

a really interesting film that the world

1:14:55

is gonna. Definitely talk about when they

1:14:57

see it. I can't wait to finish

1:14:59

it and get it out to the

1:15:01

world. This is one up here. Oh

1:15:03

yeah, that was the campaign for the,

1:15:06

uh, that was the campaign for the,

1:15:08

for the crowdfunding. And, uh, suicide disco.

1:15:10

Yeah, you know, we got to make

1:15:12

a new poster with the real actors

1:15:14

now, because this is before we had

1:15:17

actors that were playing it. And that's,

1:15:19

and my daughter, the girl up paid

1:15:21

that part. Huh. and uh... a little

1:15:23

mannequin in the side they put him

1:15:25

in a wheelchair that's cool wheelchair and

1:15:28

as you notice our legs must have

1:15:30

yeah yeah yeah yeah it's a nice

1:15:32

post art yeah it is oh boy

1:15:34

Alex did that he killed it is

1:15:36

a lot harder than you imagine making

1:15:38

a film is a lot harder than

1:15:41

you imagined making a film well it's

1:15:43

just time consuming you know it's time

1:15:45

consuming and the thing is when you're

1:15:47

producing writing directing everything You know, it's

1:15:49

a low budget film and you don't

1:15:52

have the resources that like a company

1:15:54

has. So everybody's coming to you, you

1:15:56

know, you have to take care of

1:15:58

35 people. And no

1:16:00

one's happy, you know, especially if you

1:16:03

can't, hey, here's market. And also if

1:16:05

you have poisonous crew members, you can't

1:16:07

just fire them and bring someone in

1:16:09

the next day and pay you to,

1:16:12

you know, you gotta kind of deal

1:16:14

with the poison because you don't have

1:16:16

the money to, and you're in the

1:16:18

middle, I shot it in Oslo, Norway,

1:16:20

and Belgium, in Hoogstratton, this little town

1:16:23

called Hoogstratton, and you don't have the

1:16:25

much. So if there's somebody. acting

1:16:27

wild, screaming, and people acting crazy,

1:16:29

you have to keep your composure

1:16:32

and let it go and get

1:16:34

the movie made. So the difficult

1:16:36

part is keeping 35 people happy

1:16:38

with limited funds, you know, because

1:16:40

you don't have the money to

1:16:42

pay people, you know, what the

1:16:44

studios are paying them, or if

1:16:46

they get a commercial gig, you're

1:16:49

paying them. You know, sometimes they're

1:16:51

looking at you like you do

1:16:53

and you need this, I need

1:16:55

that and they got all these

1:16:57

demands and you're like, bro, I'm

1:16:59

a person with a pocket, you

1:17:01

know, and it's all I can

1:17:03

do, you know, it's, so. But,

1:17:05

you know, I self-financed a good

1:17:08

amount of it and I think

1:17:10

we're going to be in good

1:17:12

shape. I think it's a good

1:17:14

investment. And plus, when I'm gone,

1:17:16

my children will own my part

1:17:18

of the film and everything will

1:17:20

be beautiful, Yeah, have you been

1:17:22

looking at some of the AI

1:17:24

film stuff that's been coming out?

1:17:27

Because that's going to, I mean,

1:17:29

it's again, it's like maybe ripping

1:17:31

the soul out, but if you

1:17:33

can make stuff look how you

1:17:35

want and you can do it

1:17:37

in front of your computer, you

1:17:39

take your script and done. Yeah,

1:17:41

yeah. I don't know anything. The

1:17:43

thing is, I know everybody was

1:17:46

threatened by AI and it's going

1:17:48

to kill everybody's career and it

1:17:50

will. The thing is, well, that's

1:17:52

technology. Now, do we, we can't

1:17:54

stop it. We're not, you know,

1:17:56

like we need to do, we're

1:17:58

not gonna be able to stop.

1:18:00

it. So it's like everything, you

1:18:03

know, and I bring this up

1:18:05

as well, you know, silent films

1:18:07

turn to sound. Oh, there's going

1:18:09

to kill the Silent Stars, Korea?

1:18:11

Yes, it will. You know, Obers

1:18:13

came out. That guy paid that

1:18:15

guy paid that much for the

1:18:17

taxi medallion. He wasted that now.

1:18:19

Yeah, it's going to kill the

1:18:22

guy with the taxi medallion's, you

1:18:24

know, Korea. I mean, I mean,

1:18:26

I mean, every, every time, animators,

1:18:28

you know, you draw a picture

1:18:30

one by one, perfect picture, and

1:18:32

then the old Disney way, and

1:18:34

then they put on the computer,

1:18:36

oh shit, now the computer animation,

1:18:38

you know, and it always will

1:18:41

kill, you know, but that's society,

1:18:43

that's what you got, TV went

1:18:45

in the house. Oh, it's gonna

1:18:47

kill everything, movies are gonna die

1:18:49

now, TV's in the house. Yeah,

1:18:51

you know. Do you fuck about

1:18:53

with it, though? No, I don't

1:18:55

know anything about it. I don't

1:18:57

know how to use it. I

1:19:00

don't know anything. The only thing

1:19:02

I use AI for creatively is

1:19:04

if I'm writing a sentence and

1:19:06

I don't, I'm like, is my

1:19:08

English freaking horrible here? Let's see

1:19:10

what the AI will, if it'll

1:19:12

fix my sentence and I go,

1:19:14

I like my sentence better. Or

1:19:17

I'll go, oh, AI, you got

1:19:19

me, boom, and I'll show AI,

1:19:21

you know, like, like, just to

1:19:23

fix my English. I won't even

1:19:25

be able to articulate proper sentences

1:19:27

anymore. I'll have to get it

1:19:29

to run it all for me.

1:19:31

Man, listen, you've done so much.

1:19:33

What's left for you? Well, I

1:19:36

got at least last long enough

1:19:38

for them to be 18 or

1:19:40

20 to get to college. We

1:19:42

need a bit longer than that,

1:19:44

man. Hey, Ella, I'm gonna make

1:19:46

it to your college. I'll be

1:19:48

at your, uh... Yeah, but that's

1:19:50

like conversation. She doesn't know what

1:19:52

I'm talking about. I'm just kidding.

1:19:55

Now it's boxing career. No, I'm

1:19:57

gonna be at her wedding. Well,

1:19:59

if she, well, if you get

1:20:01

married, maybe you won't get married.

1:20:03

What I'm saying is I'm gonna

1:20:05

live a long time for you.

1:20:07

Look at that smile. My kids

1:20:09

are on the couch. I'm talking

1:20:11

all like, what's it called, melancholy.

1:20:14

Dark. What's that? Like if you

1:20:16

could tick a few things off,

1:20:18

what do you want to do

1:20:20

still? Well, I would like to

1:20:22

finish this album and make something

1:20:24

really special and great tour to

1:20:26

my fans. Stuff I already did.

1:20:30

I'm putting my pitch deck together

1:20:32

and I'm doing a three picture

1:20:34

deal, you know, and I would

1:20:36

like to, you know, knock out

1:20:38

a couple films with money, you

1:20:40

know, and I'm not talking 100

1:20:42

million. I don't want to do

1:20:44

100 million. What kind of money

1:20:46

is proper money? 15 million. So

1:20:48

proper film. 10 million, you know,

1:20:50

stuff like that, like where I

1:20:52

have money, you know, and I

1:20:54

would still keep it small and

1:20:56

but I would just really be

1:20:58

able to... do everything I want

1:21:00

to do, you know, with 10,

1:21:02

15 million. I think if I

1:21:04

did the 100 million dollar movie,

1:21:06

you have a million executives telling

1:21:08

you what, it's not your, they're

1:21:10

not giving you 100 million and

1:21:12

letting you do an RA movie.

1:21:14

They're not, they're not, unless you

1:21:17

do a 20 million one, like

1:21:19

this guy, Sean Baker, shout out

1:21:21

to Sean Baker, the guy that

1:21:23

won best picture this year, for,

1:21:25

I don't even remember the name,

1:21:27

Enora, or, or, yeah. I haven't

1:21:29

seen it yet, but that guy,

1:21:31

that movie cost six million dollars,

1:21:33

you know, and he's been doing

1:21:35

independent movies every year and he's

1:21:37

such a fan of film, he

1:21:39

loves cinema. And in fact, you

1:21:41

don't know who Jess Franco is,

1:21:43

do you? No. You know, just,

1:21:45

nobody in his room knows Jess

1:21:47

Franco, right? Unless I should. In

1:21:49

the exploitation film world, he's an

1:21:51

icon in the legend, but it's

1:21:53

only the psychopaths, no Jess, you

1:21:55

know? But he's, you know, he's

1:21:57

made hundreds of hundreds of movies

1:21:59

from the most depraved horrible crazy

1:22:01

stuff to some... You know, little

1:22:04

films that were beautiful, but um,

1:22:06

Sean Baker, best picture of the

1:22:08

year. There's a thank you to

1:22:10

Jess Franklin accredits, you know? And

1:22:12

I was like, wow, you know,

1:22:14

that has going to do it,

1:22:16

what I'm saying. But the point

1:22:18

I was making was Sean Baker,

1:22:20

$6 million, I think that somebody

1:22:22

now will come to them. Hey,

1:22:24

you want to make something for

1:22:26

60 million, you know? Maybe give

1:22:28

him a little more freedom, see

1:22:30

what he does. I don't know

1:22:32

how the movie industry works once

1:22:34

you're talking about $50 to $80

1:22:36

to $100 million. I believe that

1:22:38

you wouldn't have that much power

1:22:40

unless you're Spielberg or somebody or

1:22:42

Scorsady or somebody. But I still

1:22:44

don't even know if they had

1:22:46

power. I have no idea. Well,

1:22:48

I hope you do it, man.

1:22:50

Yeah. Anybody watching want to throw

1:22:53

me $15 million? I'll make something

1:22:55

great. I want to have a

1:22:57

street film in mine, too. because

1:22:59

I have all these horror films

1:23:01

that I write those in my

1:23:03

sleep but I got a little

1:23:05

vigilante classic vigilante film but the

1:23:07

problem is I want to do

1:23:09

it on you know really street

1:23:11

rugged depraved kids in the street

1:23:13

type of thing but then as

1:23:15

I keep writing it seemed commercial

1:23:17

but then it gets more degenerate

1:23:19

degenerate degenerate now like I'm in

1:23:21

the middle of writing and I'm

1:23:23

like This is a array movie

1:23:25

again and I'm like, no, do

1:23:27

that. Roll with that. Do what

1:23:29

they haven't seen. Do it that

1:23:31

way, you know, so. What are

1:23:33

the films that you love from

1:23:35

history that brought you there? Coughing

1:23:37

Joe. No, I'm just kidding. No,

1:23:39

I mean, it depends. There's so

1:23:42

many. You know, the thing is

1:23:44

I like exploitation. I like horror,

1:23:46

but I also love, I watch

1:23:48

the great films, you know, like,

1:23:50

uh... I you know the stuff

1:23:52

that they taught you in film

1:23:54

school I didn't go to film

1:23:56

school, but I love those films

1:23:58

as well I'm not like I

1:24:00

don't like like like Antonio only

1:24:02

blow up you know masterpiece film

1:24:04

you know but like That's the

1:24:06

film school answer, but you know,

1:24:08

Ladosa Vida, Felini, you know, Lawrence

1:24:10

of Arabia, these are all like

1:24:12

the most beautiful, and I'm like,

1:24:14

when you see my film, my

1:24:16

films, but I love those films

1:24:18

as well, but then if you

1:24:20

go to it, you know, recently

1:24:22

I put up a page, you

1:24:24

know, the films of Russ Meyer,

1:24:26

they just put some of those,

1:24:28

they just put those out in

1:24:31

Blu-ray and they look insanely amazing.

1:24:33

Biana Valley The Dolls was the

1:24:35

one he did for a studio.

1:24:37

Yeah. And Roger Ebert wrote it.

1:24:39

The only thing, good thing he

1:24:41

ever did in his life. Fuck

1:24:43

film critics now. But yeah, you

1:24:45

know, Frank Hen and Lutter, of

1:24:47

course, Joe the motto I posted

1:24:49

about, but there's a Marco Ferreri,

1:24:51

I love his films, but there's

1:24:53

just so many, you know. And

1:24:55

there's Joseph Lose, who did a

1:24:57

movie called The Servant. Have you

1:24:59

ever seen that? It's a British

1:25:01

film. It's a British film, British

1:25:03

film. the servant, but there's just

1:25:05

so many great films in history

1:25:07

from every decade, every decade. I

1:25:09

show them crazy stuff, you know,

1:25:11

they love all the great movies,

1:25:13

but, and in the horror, you

1:25:15

know, it's just so, but what

1:25:18

I will tell you is, I

1:25:20

turned into grandpa before I was

1:25:22

even old, like, I go back

1:25:24

to the silent era, to the

1:25:26

20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s,

1:25:28

70s, 80s, 80s, then after that,

1:25:30

you know, you know. 2000, 2010,

1:25:32

I don't really know too much.

1:25:34

I know everything from before 1990.

1:25:36

Yeah, I think, I think we

1:25:38

all become that grandpa. Yeah, but

1:25:40

I was still a teenager while

1:25:42

I was doing it. Right. Like

1:25:44

I was like, fuck, you know.

1:25:46

Student of film. I just love,

1:25:48

I love classic cinema more than

1:25:50

modern cinema. You know, but there's

1:25:52

great films in every decade. Doesn't

1:25:54

matter what decade. Modern decade, every

1:25:56

decade. It feels lesser. I feel

1:25:58

like the COVID-era that kills that

1:26:00

kills cinema. It's changed in a

1:26:02

bit. Well, and... I don't want

1:26:04

to go back to grandpa age,

1:26:07

but the Marvel movies and all

1:26:09

of that stuff, when Scorsazian them

1:26:11

complain about it, the reason why

1:26:13

they do is because, you know,

1:26:15

the sequels, the famous, well, it's

1:26:17

not just works, it's that, it's

1:26:19

like the Puffy remix, you know,

1:26:21

like use the famous sample, get

1:26:23

a great rapper on it, and

1:26:25

you got a great song that

1:26:27

people buy, you know, where if

1:26:29

you start a brand new fresh

1:26:31

idea. from scratch, it's way harder

1:26:33

to get people to put their

1:26:35

eyes on it. So it could

1:26:37

be better than that Marvel superhero

1:26:39

film, but the eyes aren't checking

1:26:41

for it because they never heard

1:26:43

of Spider, you know, they heard

1:26:45

of Spider-Man, they heard of Wolverine,

1:26:47

but they haven't heard of, that's

1:26:49

why when we talk about Sean

1:26:51

Baker's little film, it was nice

1:26:53

to hear a little film like

1:26:56

that of Nora, you know, whatever,

1:26:58

you know, so I gotta see

1:27:00

it still though. Well, listen, I

1:27:02

hope you're doing, man. We gotta

1:27:04

go and eat in a minute.

1:27:06

You got me as long, we

1:27:08

don't have to eat either. We

1:27:10

can talk as long as you

1:27:12

want or we can go eat.

1:27:14

We should go eat. Okay? He's

1:27:16

like, I'm hungry, I'm done talking.

1:27:18

I need a steak. I didn't

1:27:20

eat lunch because I knew where

1:27:22

we were going to eat. But,

1:27:24

look, I hope you're doing, man.

1:27:26

And I hope you get it

1:27:28

right. Come hang out say hi

1:27:30

to everybody? He's been sick though.

1:27:32

Do you want to see something

1:27:34

nuts about AI click? What? Where

1:27:36

is the camera? Where is the

1:27:38

camera? I just asked chat GVT

1:27:40

to write a song about coming

1:27:42

to the UK and doing this

1:27:45

podcast in the style of IRA.

1:27:47

Tell me if you've never seen

1:27:49

this shit before. Oh, so there's

1:27:51

an array if I wrapped about

1:27:53

Bitcoin? I touched down heat throw

1:27:55

customs check no reload you see

1:27:57

right away. It doesn't even sound

1:27:59

like a reality doesn't reload Come

1:28:01

on people Yeah, no, no, they're

1:28:03

just making up like somebody that

1:28:05

wraps the town, not, like if

1:28:07

you read any of my stuff,

1:28:09

there's no, yeah, that doesn't, that,

1:28:11

that's, that's what I mean. So,

1:28:13

so AIs, AIs are no threat

1:28:15

to array the rugged man, I'll

1:28:17

murder an AI. And are you

1:28:19

like London? An AI cannot out

1:28:21

rhyme, RRA the rugged man. John

1:28:23

John John, you like London, yeah.

1:28:25

Look at his shirt, show the

1:28:27

camera your shirt. Let's

1:28:30

go right there He's a mr. Beast

1:28:32

fan, do you see? Yeah, we know

1:28:34

mr. Yeah, the kids come in Oh,

1:28:36

I thought you liked them Oh, well,

1:28:39

who do you watch on YouTube? Don't

1:28:41

you oh that other guy? Who's the

1:28:43

guy that did all the backflips or

1:28:45

something? I hate I don't like speed.

1:28:48

Yeah, it starts fights with everyone cuz

1:28:50

a lot He's just talking like a

1:28:52

lot of times Ella watches Mr. Beast

1:28:54

and I'm going to watch a riff

1:28:57

or like as speed pops up on

1:28:59

YouTube. Do you know the worst thing

1:29:01

about him? He supports Manchester United football.

1:29:03

He's a Manchester United fan. So that's

1:29:06

why we don't. Whereas you've got your

1:29:08

New Jersey now, yeah? That's your team.

1:29:10

You're a Bedford fan. We got you?

1:29:12

Maybe. I don't like Mr. You like

1:29:14

Mr. Beast's candy. You bought his candy

1:29:17

bars. What do you mean? Oh, you're

1:29:19

embarrassed about that? Candy is probably good.

1:29:21

Mr. Beast's got candy. Did you know

1:29:23

that? And toys. And burgers? It doesn't

1:29:26

need to do burgers. I think he's

1:29:28

got burgers. He does burgers now. Oh,

1:29:30

I don't like him, but you know

1:29:32

everything about him. Oh, he sent me

1:29:35

with a shoot. But listen, alright man,

1:29:37

listen, listen, listen, let me, I'll tell

1:29:39

you one thing, this might embarrass you

1:29:41

a little bit, so this morning I

1:29:44

get up and you text me because

1:29:46

the breakfast, I'm like, cool, I'm someone,

1:29:48

you know I was over my girlfriend.

1:29:50

Breakfast, he eats, amazing, the greatest hotel,

1:29:52

greatest breakfast. So my girlfriend's there and

1:29:55

I'm freaking out a little bit. I'm

1:29:57

like, fuck, I'm going to see Ari,

1:29:59

the rug, man. She's like, yeah, well

1:30:01

he wants to see, he wants to

1:30:04

do the show. And I'm like, yep,

1:30:06

this is like you waking up and

1:30:08

me laying in bed and you're pacing

1:30:10

around because you're going to go see

1:30:13

Taylor Swift. Like, Connor will tell you,

1:30:15

I've been a fan forever. The fact

1:30:17

you're here is. is incredible man I

1:30:19

really appreciate your time and I love

1:30:22

directed Mandai that was that was my

1:30:24

album yeah I made that mistake I

1:30:26

made that mistake of trying to justify

1:30:28

what I could have did better like

1:30:30

I said I tell other rappers don't

1:30:33

do that and then I'm on here

1:30:35

like right I did I kind of

1:30:37

did better and stop that was two

1:30:39

years of my life and lessons I

1:30:42

love uncommon valet I love change but

1:30:44

I love it and yeah man I

1:30:46

appreciate you doing this it's a lot

1:30:48

you thank you Thank you. Let's go

1:30:51

get a big steak. You ready for

1:30:53

a big steak? Thanks, alright. Thank you

1:30:55

everyone for listening. We'll see you soon.

1:30:57

Thanks for everything. And we didn't get

1:31:00

controversial or nothing, so, uh... We'll do

1:31:02

that next time.