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America's classic movie and TV authority

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since nineteen eighty seven. that's

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c cvideo dot com code

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TCM

0:45

Pam Greer was twenty one years old. she

0:48

flew from Los Angeles to the Philippines to

0:50

make her first movie, a seventeen

0:52

hour flight to be an actor,

0:54

which was never her plan. She

0:57

never even auditioned before.

0:59

But when she lacked an experience, she

1:01

made up for in hard work. and

1:04

the film's producers also saw something

1:06

else. They

1:07

just felt I looked like the character

1:09

who'd been in prison and couldn't get their hair done.

1:12

Okay?

1:12

I didn't get their eyebrows plugged

1:14

because I couldn't afford it. And I had a unibrow

1:17

and I must say,

1:19

The movie was called The Big Doll House.

1:21

The director was Jack Hill,

1:24

a veteran of low budget exploitation movies.

1:27

He'd made ten of them so far.

1:29

His

1:29

biggest hit was a film named

1:31

Spider Baby. Spider Baby has

1:34

the seductive innosomes of Olita. and

1:36

the savage hunger of a black widow,

1:38

spider babies. The whole production had

1:40

a fly by night feel. So

1:43

the funny part about that is when I was in

1:46

Manila, I didn't know

1:48

who were coming until I got off the plane.

1:51

But fortunately Pam was one of the girls who got

1:53

off the plane. Pam had a book

1:55

with her, sort of a bible for actors.

1:57

It was recommended to her by the movie's producer,

1:59

Roger Korman. Roger was

2:02

the king of low budget cult films.

2:04

So Roger, we go

2:06

in, and he says, well, I'm I'm glad

2:09

you decided to take the

2:11

judge. I said, Roger, you can't fire me. It

2:13

says, I will not fire you. Here's

2:14

what I want you. I want you to read this book

2:16

of how the actor prepares by Constantine

2:18

Stanislomski. You get that

2:20

book, you read it, and it'll

2:21

help you become an actor. you will know

2:23

what's going on. And

2:26

the one thing I said to my mom and

2:28

Roger, if I quit all these jobs,

2:31

to become an actor.

2:33

I better be really good at this.

2:36

I better find a way to

2:39

always study and be better

2:42

and be all those inspirations

2:44

that I've read about and seen.

2:48

Pam felt the pressure.

2:50

If she failed, she didn't know whether

2:52

her five part time jobs would be waiting

2:54

for her back in Los Angeles. And

2:56

if she made it as an actor, the

2:59

decisions got even harder. Could

3:01

she give it all up to marry her

3:03

boyfriend, a young basketball

3:05

star, named Karim Abduljibar.

3:22

I'm your host, Ben Mankowitz. You're listening

3:24

to season four of the plot thickens

3:26

podcast from Turner classic movies. This

3:29

season, Pam Greer. and

3:31

how she rose to become the queen

3:33

of black exploitation films and

3:35

Hollywood's first female action hero.

3:39

This is episode three. An

3:41

actor prepares.

3:53

Pam arrived in the Philippines just five days

3:56

after a devastating typhoon. It

3:58

destroyed the harbor and

3:59

airport facilities in Manila.

4:02

Pam landed in what was left of

4:04

it. It didn't

4:05

take long for her to find a friend.

4:08

First thing I did was my

4:10

driver found a little kitten in the gutter,

4:13

and I adopted a kitten.

4:16

She spent the night sleeping off her jet lag,

4:19

but kittens slept in her luggage.

4:21

She was expected on set the next

4:23

day. Her first day as a working

4:26

actress.

4:27

She was all nerves. And

4:29

it's not easy. It's daunting to

4:31

a person who's never done it before. and

4:33

when they're all of a sudden they're acting and they're

4:35

walk through, you know, what do I do? This is for

4:37

you just can't do it. And I

4:39

just didn't want to fail because I really wanted

4:42

to go to school. The

4:43

big dollhouse was a women in prison

4:46

film, part of a growing genre

4:48

of cheaply made exploitation movies.

4:50

exportation basically means instead

4:53

of having a pre sold book

4:55

novel or stars, you

4:58

have an idea.

4:59

You have an idea that's controversial

5:02

that the big studios with their big budgets

5:05

would be afraid to touch. We must

5:07

lock behind walls of concrete and

5:09

steel, guarded by barbed wire and

5:11

guns and a tropical hell They

5:13

call it the big dollhouse. Pam

5:16

played a character named Greer, Helen

5:19

Greer. She was bisexual and

5:21

tough. It was a big role. a

5:23

loud roll. Goddamn it. Listen,

5:25

you, Tony, bitch. I'm gonna get you out of here,

5:27

but I can't do it with you. Yellin' you pull that

5:29

up. forget about getting your credit

5:31

tonight because there's no way. I

5:34

shut your filthy mouth.

5:37

Pam had one outfit throughout the whole

5:39

movie. A yellow tank top

5:41

just long enough to masquerade as

5:43

a dress. Sometimes she wore an

5:46

orange shirt over it. The shirt

5:48

said prison on the back. Just

5:50

in case the audience forgets the women

5:52

are locked up. It was a physically

5:55

demanding role. Her character gets

5:57

into a mud fight with another actress, survives

6:00

a sexual assault, and has a grueling

6:03

death scene. Bam relied

6:05

on that Stanislavsky book. She read

6:07

it constantly. She wouldn't go

6:09

out at night with her castmates. She'd

6:11

stay in and rehearse her lines. On

6:14

set, Pam had questions. She wanted

6:16

to know about lighting and special effects

6:18

and about acting. A lot of the

6:20

crew in the Philippines didn't speak English. So

6:23

she asked director Jack Hill.

6:26

He's white with the beard and skinny

6:28

and scratching. He just had this

6:30

tablet of scratching his beard. and

6:32

just thinking,

6:33

like, Floyd, you know. So,

6:35

like, why are you scratching your beard? Are

6:37

you making me scratch?

6:39

Jack was a laid back director. He

6:42

was patient with Pam. He encouraged her.

6:44

When

6:44

she had a scene,

6:45

he told her exactly where she needed to

6:47

be. Pam, you'll do this,

6:50

and I want you to stand over here and

6:52

light the cigarette. The camp the

6:53

lights will be on you. You'll stand here

6:55

by the bed.

6:57

I was so impressed that I thought if

6:59

I have someone like him in every film,

7:01

then I'll be okay.

7:03

And I just giggled

7:05

a lot and just

7:06

played myself. Your

7:09

old

7:09

man really takes good care of you.

7:12

Don't I, honey? Yeah. I

7:14

was just like a kid in a sandbox.

7:17

and he liked it.

7:20

And

7:20

I thought he would say, no, don't do

7:22

that. But don't do any

7:24

not one time. boyfriend is up in the mouth

7:27

trying to start a revolution. And I am,

7:29

like, out there, and my fur

7:31

was big. And that's what Jack

7:33

wrote that I was in their face. What? What's what?

7:35

You know what? I didn't have to

7:36

curse. I just stepped in your face,

7:38

you know. And it brought the other actresses

7:41

out. So I think that's what he

7:43

and Roger saw that I had this

7:45

wrongness that I brought to

7:48

the work. I

7:49

don't wanna spoil an actor's performance

7:51

by trying to impose something on them or even

7:53

asking what they're doing. I prefer to be surprised.

7:57

Pam comes into this situation with no

7:59

acting experience

7:59

at all. Did you help

8:02

her? Yes and no. I

8:04

actually said Hague helped her lot as

8:06

actors do working with each other.

8:08

Sid Hague was tall and bald with

8:10

the textured, cock marked face of

8:12

a character actor. It was often cast

8:15

as the heavier villain, He had plenty

8:17

of acting experience too, especially

8:19

in low budget movies.

8:21

I was really taken by

8:23

Pamper the first time we met.

8:27

which was in the Philippines. We

8:29

were doing the big dollhouse.

8:31

And she just

8:33

was this

8:35

striking woman

8:37

who had a magnetism

8:39

to her that just compelled

8:42

you to

8:43

focus on her and wanna

8:46

know more about who and what she was.

8:49

Pam and Sid hit it off right away. Their

8:51

chemistry showed up on screen too.

8:54

Sid played a local named Harry who sold

8:56

produce at the prison. In one scene,

8:58

Pam reaches through the bars of her cell and

9:01

smashes a pack of Harry's cigarettes.

9:03

She lets him get real close and

9:05

pretends to seduce him. forget

9:08

it, Helen. I know you think girls.

9:10

I'm not this way because I wanna be.

9:13

It's this place. pretty

9:15

soon a girl gets strange

9:18

to die, and it creeps

9:20

upon you like a disease.

9:21

but it's curable.

9:23

What does it take?

9:25

A real man

9:26

like you.

9:30

Cid mentored Pam on set,

9:32

coaching her through day long rehearsals.

9:34

Sid

9:35

would guide me,

9:37

saying, okay. You're

9:39

a fantastic. Are you sure said? Did

9:41

I do okay? He said,

9:44

I don't know how to tell you.

9:46

but

9:46

you did better than okay. He

9:49

says, I don't know where you get it from,

9:51

but we can't take our eyes

9:53

off of you. and

9:55

that made me even more nervous. And

9:57

I told him I said I didn't think I was gonna

9:59

be an actor. I

10:00

was just gonna make three or four

10:02

movies, make tuition money, and

10:04

go to school. And

10:05

he said you'll be making a big mistake. That's

10:08

what he told me.

10:11

Sid saw something special in bad

10:14

It was what Jack Hill called

10:16

authority.

10:17

It gave Pam that edge. She

10:20

also had discipline. She was so

10:22

afraid of screwing up. She prepared

10:25

late into the night, studying

10:27

lines and thinking about how she'd approach

10:29

a scene. That combination

10:32

eventually catapulted Pam from

10:34

obscurity to start up.

10:40

The big dollhouse

10:42

was made on the cheap that meant

10:44

fast, no frills. That's

10:46

why they were shooting in the Philippines.

10:49

they can do it cheap. Like, their

10:51

dollar will be like three dollars in

10:53

America. And the fact that,

10:55

like, the

10:56

Philippines is fucking gorgeous. you

10:58

know, if you're doing a jungle picture, one,

11:00

you got it made.

11:01

That's Quentin Tarantino. The Oscar

11:03

winning screenwriter and direct of movies

11:05

like pulp fiction and in glorious bachelors.

11:08

Today, Tarantino is one of the

11:10

signature filmmakers of his generation.

11:13

He's also an expert on exploitation movies,

11:16

which in the sixties and seventies

11:18

was genre defined by Roger

11:20

Corman.

11:21

Roger Korman was starting

11:23

New World Pictures. He quits AIP.

11:25

It starts his own company, New World Pictures.

11:27

And so he needs

11:29

like, a slate of films, not just one or two or

11:31

three. He needs, like, twelve movies, you know, to

11:33

really set his company up. Okay.

11:36

So If I'm gonna leave Los Angeles

11:39

and I'm gonna send a couple of actors

11:41

to a location because I actually think it's

11:43

picturesque enough for us to shoot,

11:45

Well, since the most expensive thing is paying

11:47

for the actress plane tickets to go over

11:49

there, while I'm there, might as well show

11:51

two movies. If the locations are that picturesque,

11:54

why not do two?

11:56

And that was the plan. After

11:59

the big dollhouse wrapped, Roger Corman would

12:01

use many of the same crew and the same

12:03

costumes and the same actors to

12:05

make more movies. The crew

12:07

was made up mostly of locals. And

12:09

according to Jack Hill, they were pretty

12:11

good. but the onset safety standards

12:14

were different. What was really

12:16

weak was the things that they never thought of

12:18

like wardrobe, you know,

12:20

props. They had machine guns

12:22

that kept jamming every every time you fired

12:24

them. You know, it's just oh,

12:26

and we had a scene where we had to have guy

12:29

set on fire. And in

12:31

the States, you know, they do a lot of protective

12:33

stuff there. They just light him up and he jumps in the

12:35

water when it gets hot. And I'm not kidding. so

12:37

they light a human being on fire, and then

12:40

he jumps in the water when Yeah. Well, they put,

12:42

you know, whatever chemicals in his

12:44

clothes to make the fire. But the water is right

12:46

there, so he can jump in. gets hot.

12:48

If it gets hot. When it gets hot.

12:51

Exactly.

12:52

The best thing about working in the Philippines

12:55

was to cost In terms of

12:57

time, your number of days is the most

12:59

expensive item in budget shooting normally.

13:02

In the Philippines, that's your cheapest. Right?

13:04

You got all the time you want to do

13:06

anything. So I was able to really do a lot

13:08

of stuff that I wouldn't have been able to do

13:10

on on a tight schedule.

13:14

Jack and Pam quickly

13:16

learned that there were a lot of rules

13:18

about filming in the jungle.

13:22

Don't do this and don't go over there. There's

13:24

cobras over there and don't do that.

13:25

in the Philippines,

13:28

they're used to handling COBRA's. They got people

13:30

who have been inoculated against

13:32

the victim by surviving ever in

13:34

Britain and the trainer. and they're very, very

13:36

good. They know how to get the snake and

13:39

kinda let them do their thing. Everyone

13:42

pitched in on set, including the actors.

13:45

said, hey, did his share of manual

13:47

labor.

13:48

I can remember pushing

13:50

trucks up the hill and stuff like that

13:52

when we did the big dollhouse because

13:54

we were in an area that was

13:56

overgrown and they had to go in with machete's

13:59

and chop down

13:59

bamboo and stuff. So we had trucks

14:02

through and and, you know, we were

14:04

all there. It it was there was no star

14:06

system. Trust me. Okay?

14:08

There were no limousines. There were no bright lights.

14:10

There no champagne or gaviar. Okay?

14:13

It was snails cooked inside of coconut

14:15

shells, delightful.

14:20

ham had to do her own makeup on set,

14:23

her castmates taught her how. They

14:25

also taught her how to fight on camera.

14:28

You can't punch too fast or it

14:30

won't look real. And

14:31

one thing they told me is that Pam,

14:34

you know, when you go to swing at someone,

14:37

you know, can you slow it down? because

14:39

we can't capture your your

14:40

strike, you're hitting on film.

14:43

Alright? You mean, I have to slow down

14:45

a

14:45

punch? Yeah. I said, I

14:47

can't. I'm going

14:49

for to kill, you know. Like, are they

14:51

gonna kill me? that's

14:53

how you really fight and they go,

14:55

well, okay. You just need to slow

14:57

it down. And I said, how do I slow

14:59

that down and that look? hammy.

15:01

It can't be stupid. You're

15:04

the boy. You're the boss.

15:05

And don't forget you

15:07

said that. That's

15:09

your first movie because there was no

15:11

Pam Greer yet. He knows we knew

15:13

it. It wasn't gonna be because the audience

15:15

wouldn't accept the black person as a hero

15:18

in yet. Right. But that would very

15:20

soon change because I think that's

15:22

the last

15:24

on screen fight you ever

15:26

lose. Exactly. The

15:30

big dollhouse had mud fights, food

15:33

fights, commutal shower

15:36

scenes. They were staples of exploitation

15:38

movies. They might seem silly

15:41

today, but they gave Pam the chance

15:43

to find her voice. to start

15:45

getting comfortable in front of the camera.

15:48

She's kinda coming from a long line of

15:50

exploitation actors and actresses

15:53

that really made an impression in the sixties

15:56

and seventies. They're not coming from this learned

15:58

acting place. They're

15:59

naturals.

15:59

They're absolute naturals. and

16:02

they've just got a sense of fun and that they have

16:04

a great quirky personality and they're able

16:06

to get it and it doesn't get stifled when the cameras

16:08

roll. It comes out. Green,

16:13

scared,

16:14

and pretty.

16:16

000 Are we gonna have

16:18

fun?

16:22

nudity was common in women in prison

16:24

films. It was one of the things that

16:26

separated these movies from big

16:28

studio pictures. Yeah.

16:29

You know, I've been criticized for the idea

16:32

of of having nudity and

16:35

has been really gratuitous. But, you know, the

16:37

fact is that was a requirement of

16:39

the genre. It wasn't something

16:41

I

16:42

really approved of, but it had to

16:44

do it.

16:46

It's all about the illicitness, the

16:49

voyeurism of, like, watching

16:51

these women in prison do illicit things,

16:53

so there's drugs, there's lots annuities.

16:55

That's Raquel Gates, film

16:57

professor at Columbia University.

17:00

don't think we called it soft core

17:02

porn then, but I I would say

17:04

this is a film that, like, in the eighties

17:06

would have been labelled like

17:07

software porn essentially. Pam

17:10

learned her character would be topless when

17:12

she read her script for the first time.

17:15

It

17:15

was on the page. It was on the page. So you knew,

17:18

oh, I'm gonna have to at least from

17:20

the top up, I'm gonna be naked. If

17:22

you just be the character, that's

17:24

all I wanted to do. Just be the character.

17:27

Rather than shy away,

17:29

Pam saw this as an opportunity.

17:31

I felt very comfortable making

17:34

it normal,

17:35

black female, feminine sexuality,

17:38

and which

17:39

was so oppressed and not

17:41

appreciated.

17:43

We weren't in the magazines. We

17:45

weren't

17:45

center falls. We weren't on the covers. We

17:47

weren't

17:47

considered the

17:49

object of attraction and advertisement.

17:52

This was the early seventies. nudity

17:55

was part of pop culture. Woodstock

17:58

was still fresh in people's minds. Playboy

18:01

magazine, at least some, was

18:03

considered high class. casual

18:06

sex was common in movies, even mainstream

18:08

movies. nudity was

18:10

everywhere. Still,

18:13

It wasn't common to see women

18:15

fighting naked. That was

18:17

a new twist. You don't

18:19

fight very comfortably when

18:21

you're new. or top. That's what I find.

18:24

I'm a terrible nude photo. Yeah. It's

18:26

just yeah. Niffles get in the way. I'm sorry.

18:28

It's just terrible. Amen. You're preaching to the

18:30

choir. All joking aside, Pam

18:32

was comfortable doing nude scenes, but

18:35

there were scenes that were harder to

18:37

shoot. They were sleazier, more

18:39

violent, like what Harry, played

18:41

by Sid Hague, rolls up to the

18:43

women's prison with a cart full of produce.

18:46

Harry bribes the guard to get into

18:48

the cell block. All the women call

18:50

out to Harry, but he stays a bit

18:52

longer at Pam's cell.

18:56

He approaches

18:58

the women's cell,

19:00

and she's in there with a group of women. he

19:03

approaches them and he says, I

19:05

have a letter.

19:07

Hi, Harry. Got anything from me today?

19:10

Got

19:10

a smuggle letter. what

19:12

you're gonna give me for?

19:14

Nothing.

19:16

Okay. Alright.

19:20

Come here. And so

19:23

Pam Greer's character basically lets him

19:25

feel her up. in

19:27

order to get the letter. And

19:29

she does. And, you know, she's

19:32

fairly stoic about it.

19:34

Okay. That's enough. But

19:36

then, she realizes that

19:39

the letter wasn't for her. It was for someone else

19:41

since she's been tricked. And

19:43

she breaks, essentially. You set

19:45

up a bitch. This is for

19:47

boating. And for me, that

19:49

scene is so evocative because like

19:51

as a viewer, you immediately think how

19:54

much stuff has this woman within this

19:56

narrative been putting up with has she been

19:58

pretending to be okay with you realize the toughness

20:00

is not literally who she

20:02

is, but a mask

20:04

that she has been wearing in order

20:06

to deal with the incredibly horrific

20:09

conditions of being in

20:11

prison.

20:12

You're rotten, Harry. You

20:14

know why? because you're a man.

20:17

Oh, man. I'm filthy. All

20:20

they ever wanna do is to get at you

20:23

for a long time. I let them get at

20:25

me. That's why I'm in this dump.

20:27

But

20:28

no more. You hear me. I'm

20:30

not gonna let a man shook the hands

20:32

touch me again.

20:37

Every now and then, I have to remind myself

20:39

that before the big dollhouse, Pam

20:42

had never acted, not even in a

20:44

school play. But here she was.

20:46

twenty one years old, stealing

20:48

scene after scene. I wanted

20:51

to see how she did it, and I knew

20:53

exactly where to turn to the

20:55

book an actor prepares by Constantine

20:57

Stanislavsky. It's still in

20:59

print. One part caught my

21:01

eye. on page one hundred and

21:03

eighty two in my audition. Stanislavsky

21:06

writes about what he called emotion memory.

21:10

Just as your visual memory can reconstruct

21:12

an inner image of some forgotten thing

21:14

he wrote, your emotion memory

21:17

can bring back feelings you have already

21:19

experienced. This

21:21

emotional memory is an important

21:23

acting tool. Pam clearly

21:26

knew how to use it. even when she

21:28

was just a novice actor. She

21:30

learned from the book, how to reach into

21:32

the past, find a difficult memory

21:35

and use it to create a performance. All

21:38

the emotions Pam suppressed with her

21:40

tough exterior became tools

21:42

in her acting toolbox.

21:45

They were easy to surface now

21:47

that she finally had an outlet.

21:55

Coming up, Pam worries about her

21:57

future with green. But the

21:59

fact that I was willing

21:59

to lose my life for someone

22:02

who has a doctor in that, I'm excluded.

22:05

I don't I'm messed up.

22:15

Remember

22:15

how movie nights used to go

22:17

you'd hop in the car, grab some food,

22:20

and stop at the video store.

22:21

You you really should get the food after the

22:24

video, it'll get cold. Anyway,

22:26

those were great places.

22:27

They had weird movies, rare movies,

22:30

and movies that were just there because

22:32

someone loved them that much.

22:35

Well,

22:35

now you can have an entire video

22:37

store in

22:38

your mailbox. The real mailbox.

22:40

The old one. The one outside.

22:43

and

22:43

you can have it every month with critics'

22:45

choice video.

22:46

Sign up at c c video dot com

22:48

to get a free monthly catalog packed

22:51

with DVDs, Blu ray's, collectibles,

22:53

and more. At cc video dot

22:55

com, you'll find nearly fifty thousand titles

22:57

including classic movies and TV shows.

23:00

You won't see anywhere else. And once you buy

23:02

a movie from cc video dot com, it is

23:04

yours to own forever. It'll

23:06

never disappear unless you lose it.

23:09

So leave your car in the garage, order some

23:11

pizza, and make movie night your

23:13

own. Use code TCM

23:15

for twenty percent off and free standard

23:18

shipping on your order at c cvideo

23:20

dot com, America's classic movie

23:22

and TV authority since nineteen eighty

23:25

seven. that's c cvideo dot

23:27

com code TCM

23:29

I've been doing this podcast thing

23:31

for a little while now and it's been fun.

23:34

I highly recommend it. If

23:36

you're interested in getting into it and

23:38

doing it right, here's a pro tip. Making

23:40

a smooth transition into a break

23:43

is incredibly important. you

23:45

need to make sure it flows, stays

23:47

smooth, and that can be tough. It's

23:49

the same thing with health insurance. See?

23:52

just like that. Whether you're between

23:54

jobs, coming off your parents plan or

23:56

turning aside, how someone do a full time gig,

23:58

not having health insurance can be stressful.

24:00

short term insurance plans from UnitedHealthcare

24:03

can provide flexible coverage that can

24:05

last for as long as you need from one

24:07

month to just under a year in some states.

24:10

underwritten by Golden Rural Insurance Company,

24:12

UnitedHealthcare's short term plans

24:14

are designed to fit your needs, your timeline,

24:16

and your budget. providing you with access

24:19

to a nationwide network of doctors

24:21

and hospitals. If you're in between health insurance

24:23

plans, coming off a plan, or you

24:25

anticipate a gap in coverage, A short

24:27

term plan may be right for you.

24:29

To find out more about short term health

24:31

insurance plans, visit uh

24:33

one dot com. That's 0NE

24:37

dot com.

24:38

Oh,

24:41

shout well. In

24:43

our holy ears, none

24:46

but the pure in heart. No.

24:50

None. But the

24:52

pure in heart.

24:54

Before rehearsals, Pam used to

24:56

warm up by singing gospel.

24:59

One morning on the set of the big dollhouse,

25:01

Sid Hague heard her singing. he

25:04

was astounded.

25:05

He says, well, what did you do? I said, well,

25:07

Stanislowsky says, I have to sing and

25:09

vocalize my instrument and warm up. He

25:11

says, yeah. That's, you know, warming up. He says,

25:13

I do it all the time. And he would have

25:16

just chills,

25:17

crayly tear up. And

25:20

he says, just

25:20

love gospel music.

25:22

You know? He says, just does something to my

25:24

soul.

25:25

And I said, yeah, it really does.

25:28

Pam and Sid started warming up together

25:31

by

25:31

singing.

25:32

he'd harmonize. He could really

25:34

sing. Hey, I said, did you ever

25:36

do a doo wop? Did

25:37

you ever do street corner, doo

25:39

wop blues, he says,

25:41

yeah. And he

25:44

encouraged me.

25:46

Word got out about their singing.

25:48

the cast and crew would stop what

25:50

they were doing and come watch. Roger

25:53

Cormen also found out. He might have

25:55

been a little annoyed that people weren't working

25:57

but it also gave him an idea. He

26:00

approached Pam with a song,

26:02

a song written for the big dollhouse.

26:05

I'm a long time. I'm woman.

26:09

And I'm serving my car. and

26:13

she actually recorded the title song.

26:15

Is that sure, you know, it it was a

26:18

little input from me.

26:19

And when I heard it,

26:21

they said, we wrote it for you. I said, it's

26:23

a octave too high. Can you lower

26:26

it? You know, I it's like too high for me and they

26:28

couldn't remember, ugh, it's straining. I

26:31

would have arranged

26:31

it differently. Tell you what? Yeah.

26:34

I'm a long time. Walmart.

26:38

and I feel no pain.

26:43

I'm a longtime woman.

26:49

and

26:49

I lost my gay.

26:54

It

26:54

would have been different on a bus, but I

26:56

made it more Hollywood jazz.

26:59

It made more it was more Vegas.

27:01

And

27:04

it turned out that the Black Radio station

27:06

is in places like Chicago had

27:08

taken that soundtrack off the film and

27:10

were playing it over the radio.

27:14

The

27:14

song hit the airwaves and

27:16

the big dollhouse became a hit.

27:20

When the movie hit theaters, the

27:23

studio sent Pam to Chicago for

27:25

the opening.

27:26

She and her co stars posed for publicity

27:28

pictures. in

27:29

a cage.

27:31

Again, Quentin Tarantino.

27:33

The

27:33

girls are really funny in it, and they have

27:35

a really good camaraderie. You like

27:37

them. You're like, you're really like rooting for

27:39

them, especially at the end. You know, you you want

27:41

them to get away. You're you're totally rooting for these

27:43

girls. And

27:44

Roger apparently, he told me this himself.

27:47

when he saw the big doll house, he

27:49

thought Jackill went too far. He thought it was, like,

27:51

too sexual. He thought it was too violent.

27:53

And he just thought it was too much. there

27:55

became the biggest hit that they

27:57

ever had, and so he completely changed his mind

27:59

about that. There has never

28:02

been a motion picture like the Big

28:04

Dow House. The big dollhouse made

28:06

more than five million dollars at the box

28:08

office. Remember, this was back when

28:10

tickets cost a dollar a piece. Roger

28:13

Korman's production company started

28:15

getting letters.

28:17

You don't normally get fan mail

28:19

for a little picture such as this.

28:22

but we got a whole lot of fan,

28:24

Pam. We were really amazed and

28:26

almost all of it singled out

28:28

Pam rare. What are

28:29

you doing, miss Graham? where that

28:32

thing comes

28:32

from. This is foreman on the DVD, the

28:35

big dollhouse. When we did the big

28:37

dollhouse, we weren't thinking of the black

28:39

market at all were just making a

28:41

woman in prison picture. But when

28:43

we saw the reaction to Pam

28:45

and we realized that these black oriented

28:48

films we're doing so well.

28:50

We featured her in an attempt to

28:52

get in both markets. Roger asked

28:54

Pam to stay in the Philippines to shoot a

28:56

second film, women in cages. Another

28:59

women in prison will Meet

29:02

the dirty dolls of Devil's Island.

29:06

Women in cages the sensational

29:08

new motion picture that rips the veil

29:11

of the dirtiest record ever conceived

29:13

by the minds of vicious men. Women

29:16

in cages was shot in the northern mountains

29:18

of the Philippines. It was more remote,

29:21

lots of flooded rice fields.

29:23

Pam's flight there,

29:25

had nowhere to land. It was

29:27

fucked up. He

29:30

had to jump out a damn plane.

29:33

The

29:33

plane never stopped moving.

29:36

Pam was told quite literally

29:38

to jump out and her luggage

29:40

would meet her on the ground. There

29:43

was no landing strip, so I'm like,

29:45

I'm gonna die. here in the

29:47

Philippines. I can see them be bitten by

29:49

a cobra, fall out of a plane, get hit

29:52

by my luggage. can see that.

29:55

Pam plays Alabama, a

29:58

sadistic, lesbian, prison

29:59

matron. She

30:01

had a large wheel where she would strap

30:03

naked prisoners. and

30:05

then torture them.

30:06

No one escapes

30:09

from my prison.

30:11

No one. Women

30:13

in cages has even more nudity

30:15

and more violence than the big dollhouse.

30:17

It

30:18

was also shot by a different director.

30:21

And that's directed by a well known

30:23

director named Gerald De Leon. And he only

30:25

did one movie for Carmen, and he just did

30:27

this one. And this is

30:30

the antithesis of what the Jack

30:32

Hill ones are like. It's not funny.

30:34

It's not funny at all. It's

30:37

very grim and it's very downbeat.

30:40

innocent young girls held in cruel

30:42

bondage, so to the highest bidder

30:44

to satisfy strange desires.

30:47

Women in cages was harder to shoot than

30:49

the big dollhouse. The terrain was more

30:52

tropical. Pam always felt

30:54

like something was crawling on insects,

30:58

leaches,

30:58

snakes. big.

31:01

It's probably all over me. But

31:04

Pam stuck it out

31:06

soon she moved to a nicer hotel

31:08

and she got a pay raise, a small one.

31:11

She was making more than five hundred dollars

31:13

a week.

31:13

It went up. The fee,

31:15

the salary, the budgets,

31:16

a few dollars, maybe

31:18

an extra lunch or something, not much,

31:21

but I had no intention of

31:23

doing anymore. The first one, yes.

31:25

The second one, boom. that's

31:27

some tuition. But the main thing is hang on

31:29

to the job because I let the other

31:31

ones go. So I really needed

31:33

a tuition. I really wanted to get

31:35

into UCLA own school. I

31:38

don't think she really thought about that she

31:40

could act until she went out there and

31:42

did those movies. In the Philippines, those

31:44

first movies This is film critic, Otie

31:46

Henderson.

31:47

She is fearless. She did her own stunts.

31:50

She did my annuity. She

31:52

was a powerful force of a scream

31:54

even when she wasn't saying anything. This

31:57

is what makes you a star.

32:00

These first two films in the Philippines

32:03

put Pam Greer on the map, even

32:05

if she was just a tiny island

32:07

on that map. Pam made

32:09

eight thousand dollars for three months of work.

32:12

The day Pam was set to leave the Philippines.

32:15

Roger Korman asked her to stay and

32:17

shoot another movie. but Pam

32:19

wanted to go home to Los Angeles. She

32:22

missed careen. She gave her kit

32:24

into her driver and headed to the airport.

32:27

On the long flight, Pam considered

32:29

the unexpected twist her life

32:31

had taken.

32:33

I got the confidence to go

32:35

to the other side of the world to figure out who

32:37

I was

32:37

as a young woman. It was the best experience

32:41

ever, and Roger didn't borrow

32:43

me. because I had studied that

32:45

book.

32:46

And it gave me an entire

32:49

different idea of what the actor

32:51

does.

32:52

PAM REALIZED SHE HAD LEARNED THINGS

32:54

IN THE FILLOPENES SHE COULD NEVER

32:56

LEARN IN SCHOOL

32:58

AND SHE THOUGHT ABOUT CORINE.

33:00

Do I love him? Or does he love me?

33:02

What does love me

33:04

at that moment in time? That's when

33:06

I started? opening up.

33:10

Would

33:10

she give up film school for Korean?

33:13

Would

33:13

she convert to Islam and marry

33:15

him?

33:16

or she thought

33:17

maybe

33:19

there was a third option.

33:21

Maybe

33:22

she was an actress after all.

33:29

When Pam got back to the states, she made

33:32

a stop in Denver to tell her mom about

33:34

her adventures in the Philippines.

33:36

Then it was back to Los Angeles and

33:38

Careem. He lived in Malibu when

33:40

he was in town. Pam often stated

33:43

his condo. one weekend,

33:45

some of Careem's friends came over.

33:47

Pam was asked to leave the room.

33:50

When he's in the room or Muslim

33:51

men are in the room, and he's

33:54

pretty orthodox. And women

33:56

have to leave.

33:58

And so, but make us a tuna fish sandwich

33:59

and leave it here and, you know, and

34:02

and then come back and clean up.

34:05

Pam decided to go for a drive.

34:08

She reached into the glove compartment and

34:10

took out a silk scarf and wrapped

34:12

it, so her head would be covered. I

34:14

was gonna

34:15

drive and see what it's like to, you know,

34:17

see how people react to me, see how I feel

34:19

driving with this scarf on my head,

34:21

and it it really affects

34:23

you. She

34:25

was driving on a winding two lane

34:27

highway called Malibu Canyon Road.

34:30

The windows were down, so she could enjoy

34:32

the breeze. Well

34:34

and when from that window.

34:37

I came in blue the scarf, down over

34:39

my eyes, and I got entangled in my

34:41

face and I couldn't get it off and almost drove off

34:43

the cliff. I

34:45

said, I could have lost my life, but the fact

34:47

that I was willing to lose my life for

34:50

someone who has a a doctor in

34:52

that, I'm excluded. I don't

34:54

I'm messed up.

34:58

Pam drove down to the beach and

35:00

went for a walk. SHE WAS IN LOVE

35:02

WITH COREME AND SHE BELIEVED HE

35:04

LOVED HER TOO. BUT SHE

35:06

STRUGGLE TO RECONCile HER FEELINGS

35:08

WITH THE LIFE COREME WANTED TO LEAD.

35:12

When Careem's friends left the condo,

35:15

they saw Pam walking on the beach

35:17

wearing cut off shorts. and

35:20

I was on the beach

35:22

thinking to myself with

35:24

the headscarf off. And

35:25

they saw me and it was his teacher. One

35:29

of them called Careem and

35:31

told him what he'd seen. When

35:32

Pam got back,

35:34

Careem wasn't happy. And

35:36

I was just shaking, trembling, and

35:38

I kept asking questions. I said, do you really

35:40

want me to walk behind you? Do you

35:42

really want me to serve you?

35:45

Pam remembers Careem saying yes.

35:50

We invited Careem Abdul Jabbar to talk

35:52

to us for the podcast but he politely

35:55

declined.

35:57

Pam

35:57

was depressed in the weeks after their

35:59

fight.

35:59

When

36:00

Karim left to go to Milwaukee,

36:03

She didn't go to the airport to see him

36:05

off.

36:14

Next

36:14

on the bloodthickens, a

36:16

birthday and a wedding. We'll

36:19

be right back.

36:31

Remember

36:33

how movie nights used to

36:35

go. You'd hop in the car, grab

36:37

some food, and stop at the video store.

36:39

you you really should get the food after the

36:42

video. It'll get cold. Anyway,

36:44

those were great places. They had weird

36:46

movies, rare movies, and

36:48

movies that were just there because someone

36:51

loved them that much. Well,

36:53

now you can have an entire video

36:55

store in your mailbox, the

36:58

real mailbox, the old one,

37:00

the one outside, and you

37:01

can have it every month with critics choice

37:03

video.

37:04

Sign up at cc video dot com

37:06

to get a free monthly catalog packed

37:09

with DVDs, Blu rays, collectibles,

37:11

and more. At cc video dot

37:13

com, you'll find nearly fifty thousand titles

37:15

including classic movies and TV shows

37:18

you won't see anywhere else. And once you buy

37:20

a movie from cc video dot com, it is

37:22

yours to own forever. It'll

37:24

never disappear unless you lose it.

37:27

So leave your car in the garage, order some

37:29

pizza, and make movie night your

37:31

own. Use code TCM

37:33

for twenty percent off and free standard

37:36

shipping on your order at c cvideo

37:38

dot com, America's classic movie

37:41

and TV authority since nineteen eighty

37:43

seven. that's c cvideo dot

37:45

com code TCM

37:47

I've been doing this podcast thing

37:49

for a little while now and it's been fun.

37:52

I highly recommend it.

37:54

If you're interested in getting into it

37:56

and doing it right, here's a pro tip.

37:58

Making a smooth transition into

38:00

a break is incredibly important.

38:03

you need to make sure it flows, stays

38:05

smooth, and that can be tough. It's

38:08

the same thing with health insurance. See?

38:10

just

38:10

like that. Whether you're between

38:12

jobs, coming off your parents' plan or

38:14

turning aside, how someone do a full time gig,

38:16

not having health insurance can be stressful?

38:19

short term insurance plans from UnitedHealthcare

38:21

can provide flexible coverage that can

38:23

last for as long as you need from one

38:26

month to just under a year in some states.

38:28

Underwritten by Golden Rural Insurance Company,

38:30

UnitedHealthcare's short term plans

38:32

are designed to fit your needs, your timeline, and

38:35

your budget. providing you with access

38:37

to a nationwide network of doctors

38:39

and hospitals. If you're in between health insurance

38:41

plans, coming off a plan or you

38:43

anticipate a gap in coverage, A short

38:45

term plan may be right for you.

38:47

To find out more about short term health

38:49

insurance plans, visit uh

38:52

one dot com. That's 0NE

38:55

dot com.

39:00

It was May twenty sixth nineteen

39:02

seventy one. Pam's

39:04

twenty second birthday.

39:06

She planned to spend the day relaxing at

39:08

home.

39:09

I was in this

39:11

kind of house

39:14

condo that

39:16

I got to stay in until I found an

39:18

apartment, and it was in California,

39:20

Los Angeles, and was

39:23

in the living room a sunny day. Pam

39:25

had been answering birthday calls all day,

39:28

so she wasn't surprised when the phone

39:30

rang. this time it was

39:32

great. It

39:33

was very friendly and up and

39:35

it was strange

39:36

and I thought it was for my birthday.

39:37

is calling to wish me

39:39

happy birthday. And he said, well,

39:41

first of all, happy birthday. Great. Okay.

39:44

So I wanna talk to you. Okay. So are

39:46

you gonna commit to energy

39:48

islam and convert so we

39:50

can get married. I said, yeah,

39:52

eventually, but I just need more time

39:54

you had three years, I've had

39:57

three

39:57

months, and I have more questions

39:59

that

39:59

you feel uncomfortable answering.

40:03

It was a conversation they'd had often.

40:06

But this time, something felt

40:08

different. He says, well, you

40:10

don't commit to me today. when I'm

40:12

gonna marry someone who is prepared for me.

40:16

i

40:18

I can't I mean, to articulate how I

40:20

felt

40:22

it's it's very complicated,

40:25

very complex because there's so

40:27

many emotions

40:28

all these things. And

40:30

I said, okay. So maybe I wasn't

40:32

the only one. Maybe there's more, but

40:35

he's getting married to someone else.

40:37

If I don't commit, And I and

40:40

he said, yeah, she's been prepared

40:42

for me.

40:45

Isiah

40:47

prepared? What do you mean prepared like a sandwich?

40:50

You know? And I it was

40:52

not being nice. It

40:54

should have been more respectful. I

40:56

understood what he was saying.

41:00

Pam thought back to the book Kareem

41:02

gave her about being a Muslim Mormon.

41:05

and all the conversations they'd had

41:07

about Islam.

41:09

And he was preparing me, and

41:11

I didn't wanna be prepared. I

41:14

didn't say no or scream

41:16

or or be defensive or it

41:18

didn't come up with any drama. I just

41:20

I just said, okay. And

41:23

I remember myself as just lying

41:25

down and looking up at the

41:28

ceiling and not breathing just

41:30

going because

41:31

he started out as a best friend

41:33

and not until later,

41:36

did I think like I dodged a

41:38

bullet or

41:40

Wow.

41:41

He set me free, but I stood

41:43

my ground.

41:45

I felt a sense of freedom,

41:48

my own

41:49

earned freedom. I lost

41:51

a love, and I did love him.

41:54

Pam spent the rest of her birthday

41:56

crying.

41:57

Two days later, at four o'clock

41:59

in the morning, on May 28th, Kareem

42:02

God Mary.

42:04

I couldn't make him happy. that

42:06

made him happy.

42:08

The

42:09

newlyweds went on a honeymoon tour

42:11

of Africa.

42:12

Careem sent Pam a postcard

42:14

from Egypt, Pam,

42:16

I hope this note finds you well. This

42:19

place is out of sight, but

42:21

I'm glad to be going home.

42:24

peace.

42:25

Corrie.

42:32

Pam

42:32

threw herself into work. By

42:34

the fall of nineteen seventy one, she

42:37

was on a plane back to the Philippines. to

42:39

shoot three more films for Roger Cormack.

42:42

So that's three jobs and

42:44

tuition, money. I

42:46

was like, I thought

42:47

it was something else like going to school.

42:50

But I learned so

42:53

much from the Philippino

42:56

production, which love American

42:59

movies. So

43:01

much They knew dialogue,

43:04

they knew equipment, they were

43:06

just enamored

43:07

about American filmmaking. The

43:09

first movie they shot was Twilight

43:11

People, made by Filipino director

43:14

Eddie Romero. Half men,

43:16

half beast. all monster, the

43:18

twilight people. It's based

43:20

on the armor of Doctor Monroe, the HTL's story

43:23

where Doctor Monroe wants to create

43:25

a better race of people by kind

43:27

of merging them with animals. Pam

43:31

lays the Panther woman. This is

43:33

film critic, O. D. Henderson. Well, I enjoyed

43:35

every time she attacks somebody, I like horror

43:37

movies and I'm a gore person. So

43:39

I enjoyed her just coming out of nowhere

43:42

and attacking folks.

43:45

If you think about it, there weren't any

43:47

black monsters. You know, the the beast must

43:50

die has the first black we're and then

43:52

Black Deal are the same year as Black Vampire.

43:54

And we have Cam Greer as, you know, Black Catwoman.

43:56

So it was a little bit ahead

43:59

of its time, I think, in terms of casting.

44:02

It

44:02

was a physical role. And

44:03

once again Pam did a lot of

44:05

her own stunts, partly

44:07

because they didn't have the right

44:09

stunt double for her. And

44:10

then when they said, okay, Pam, here's your stuntman.

44:13

He was half

44:13

my size, covered in brown makeup

44:15

with a rug over his head to look like an afro.

44:18

I was like,

44:18

what the fuck? that does not

44:20

look like me.

44:22

After running around the jungle as a Panther,

44:25

Pam shot another women in prison movie

44:27

with Jack Hill. The big dollhouse

44:29

had been such a hit, Roger and Jack

44:31

decided there

44:32

was more money to be made. Abused

44:35

by savage degenerate So

44:37

I wrote a secret called the big bird

44:39

change where I I used pamper

44:41

and said, hey, and I wrote the rules specifically for

44:44

them. Don't

44:46

you

44:46

think I'd tell you before I let this

44:48

fat pepsi slap me around?

44:50

She and Sid Higg became my

44:53

Tracy and Hepburn. she had

44:55

no right now to come. Her first real

44:58

performance performance doesn't

45:00

really happen until the

45:02

big birdcage.

45:03

Again, here's Quentin Tarantino.

45:05

That's her first real terrific

45:08

performance. And think partly

45:10

it's because she's teamed up with Sid Hague.

45:13

the

45:13

way she is. And they're almost like they're playing

45:15

these Bandido kind of revolutionaries. And,

45:17

like, they're just dynamite together, and

45:19

she's just such an amazing character.

45:22

And she really, really becomes a character.

45:24

Oh, I was gonna cut it off to kinda

45:26

pull that shit on me. And I do

45:28

think it's a situation. By that point, she had gotten

45:31

really comfortable. She had gotten better and better and

45:33

better. She knew what she was doing.

45:34

One thing constipains, Stanislav,

45:36

because he's learning your lines. and

45:39

be in character. So when they first see you,

45:41

they see that character. And they can

45:43

add on or add less, but

45:45

that's what they see.

45:47

The third movie Pam Shot was called

45:49

chains of hate,

45:50

also directed by Eddie Romero.

45:52

Now there's a quote waiting to get me and my

45:54

money out of here for good.

45:55

AIP eventually changed the

45:57

title to black mama, white mama.

46:00

It

46:00

was a takeoff of the Tony Curtis

46:02

and Sydney Portier movie. You

46:05

don't fall back. I am married to you now. What do

46:07

I get? You married to me. Alright, Joker.

46:09

And here's the ring, but I ain't going south on no

46:11

honeymoon now. This

46:12

is based to get a rip off of the defiant

46:14

ones. Yeah. Prisoners, one black,

46:16

one white, and their handcuff together, and they escape.

46:19

and he don't like each other. Come on, get up.

46:21

I

46:21

can't.

46:23

Pam spends the movie handcuffed to

46:25

a blonde actress named Margaret Markoff.

46:28

They did their own stunts. They fought.

46:30

They were both physical people. They

46:33

were equally matched. They

46:35

have good chemistry together. And I add

46:37

the humor.

46:38

and whatever Margaret

46:40

Markoff did, you know, I did the complete

46:43

opposite of it. So we were like, mutton,

46:45

Jeff. We were the first buddy in a

46:47

female buddy pair.

46:48

Who put you in charge? You've

46:50

been sold right now for what's it for me? Yeah.

46:52

Yeah. But what have you done for me lately?

46:54

While

46:57

Pam was in the Philippines, studio

46:59

executives back in Hollywood were trying

47:01

to cash in on a new trend. movies

47:04

made for a black audience. There

47:06

were reasons for that. A country

47:08

was changing. This is a moment where

47:11

white flight from urban centers

47:13

to the suburbs had really

47:16

changed the demographics

47:17

of the core AREAS

47:19

OF, YOU KNOW, MOST CITIES IN THIS COUNTRY.

47:22

Reporter:

47:23

JACQUELINE STEWART IS THE DIRECTOR OF

47:25

THE ACADEMY MUSEUM. and one

47:27

of the hosts of Turner classing movies.

47:29

So these massive movie

47:31

palaces they've been built in, you know,

47:33

every major city sometimes two or

47:36

three thousand seats. This majestic space

47:38

is they were starting to decay. And

47:40

one reason they are allowed to decay is because

47:43

that white audience wasn't the core audience anymore.

47:45

Black audiences

47:46

were going to many of these theaters.

47:48

So

47:48

it was a real business opportunity for the

47:50

industry to think about how to

47:52

exploit

47:53

a black audience. And that term exploit,

47:56

you know, sounds negative. But, you know, it's

47:58

like a business concept of

47:59

exploiting a market.

48:01

Hollywood saw

48:04

dollar signs after watching the success

48:06

of an independent director named Melvin

48:09

Van Peebles. He made a movie in

48:11

nineteen seventy one called Sweet

48:13

Sweetback's Badass song. I'm

48:15

gonna say a blackout of a movie

48:18

for you.

48:19

was made very cheaply independently,

48:21

but he wanted

48:22

to do something that was not co opted

48:25

by, dictated by

48:27

white Hollywood.

48:28

The budget for sweet sweetback was

48:31

five hundred thousand dollars.

48:33

It made fifteen point two

48:35

million at the box office.

48:39

Another movie arrived a few months

48:41

later proving that kind of

48:43

success and profit margin. was

48:46

not just a one off. Shacks

48:49

his name. Shacks

48:51

his game. Shaft was a

48:53

detective movie from MGM starring

48:55

Richard Roundtree with a soundtrack by

48:58

Isaac Hayes. It was directed

49:00

by a photographer named Gordon Parks who

49:02

became the first black director to

49:04

make major motion pictures in Hollywood.

49:07

Shaft was a runaway hit.

49:09

It earned thirteen million dollars

49:11

at the box office enough to save

49:14

MGM from bankruptcy.

49:16

So every time that Hollywood is

49:18

broke, they

49:19

suddenly remember that black people exist.

49:21

That's Columbia University film professor

49:24

Raquel Gates.

49:24

You couple that with the

49:26

wake of the civil rights movement, the rise black

49:29

power movement, the black is beautiful aesthetic,

49:31

the popularity of soul music, and you

49:33

combine all of those things and you get

49:35

black exploitation.

49:37

That's what some people were starting to

49:39

call these black action movies, black

49:41

exploitation films, the lead

49:43

roles, were going to Black men.

49:46

That was about to change. The

49:49

low budget movie studio where Pam had

49:51

once worked American International Pictures

49:53

or AIP asked Jack

49:56

Hill to make an action movie starring

49:58

a black actress.

50:00

and Jack, who just the

50:02

woman for the job.

50:17

On our next episode, Pam

50:22

plans her biggest role yet. and

50:24

becomes a sensation. I

50:26

couldn't walk on the street. It'd be five

50:28

thousand people. Her movies sell

50:30

millions of tickets. and

50:33

generate considerable controversy.

50:35

There has to be a change because

50:38

all of the films are too negative. I'm

50:41

literally sailing into a storm

50:43

with no sails

50:46

and it's dark and the waves are hitting

50:48

me in the face. and how I'm, like,

50:50

surviving. That's

50:51

what it was like.

50:55

Angela Corona is our director of

50:58

podcasts. Story editors are

51:00

Joanne Ferrien and Sherry O'Kake.

51:03

Audio editing and sound design by

51:05

Mike vulgaris. Script writing

51:07

by Yoko Friedman, Rachel Pilgrim,

51:09

Angela Corona, and me. Yoko

51:11

Friedman is our senior producer. James

51:14

Sheridan is our researcher and fact

51:16

checker, mixing by Glenn Matoulo

51:18

and Tim Pelletier, production support

51:21

from Julie Beton Mario Riles,

51:23

Susana Zapata, Liz Winter,

51:26

Alison Fire, Phil Richards,

51:28

and Reed Hall. Web support

51:30

by Betsy Gucci. Thanks to David

51:33

Byrne, Taren Jacobs, Carolyn Whitmore,

51:35

Dexter Fedor, Marci Saco,

51:38

Gen Aviv McGillicuddy, and Mark Wins,

51:40

and the entire TCM marketing

51:42

team. Original music in the podcast

51:45

comes from the band, Cadillac Jones.

51:47

Believe it or not, Their base player

51:50

is also our lawyer, John Renault.

51:52

Thanks to John Kristen Hassel and

51:54

Salang Moulton. Thomas Avery of Toon

51:57

Welders composed our theme music. Our

51:59

executive producer

51:59

is Charlie Tavish, TCM's

52:02

General Manager is Polishagna. Check

52:04

out our website at TCM dot com

52:06

backslash the plot thickens. It has

52:09

info about each episode and

52:11

photos from throughout Pam's life.

52:13

Again,

52:13

that's TCM dot com backslash

52:15

the block thickens. I'm your host,

52:17

Ben Menkowitz. Thanks for listening. See

52:20

you next time.

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