0:00

Too many people

0:00

wait until they are really, really sick

0:03

before they call a doctor.

0:06

And I do not want you

0:06

to be one of those people.

0:09

So today's guest is the sales

0:12

doctor, Marvin Montgomery.

0:15

At a young age, my dad told me that

0:18

no matter what you do in life,

0:18

you're going to need to be a salesperson.

0:23

You're going to need to sell yourself

0:23

to get the job.

0:25

If once you have a job,

0:25

if it's maybe you're an engineer,

0:27

you need to sell the project. You need to do all sorts of these things.

0:32

So if you want to get better at something

0:35

that's going to have a big effect

0:35

on a lot of places in your life.

0:39

Stay tuned.

0:43

Oh, thanks for coming on, Marvin.

0:46

I really appreciate it. You've worked

0:48

with hundreds of organizations.

0:52

What is the number

0:52

one thing most salespeople miss?

0:56

I was just talking

0:57

about that before I walked in.

1:00

Love a gentleman. The one thing that is probably

1:02

the hardest thing

1:06

for not just salespeople, but people

1:10

is just active listening.

1:14

We think we're listening, but we're not.

1:17

Which means we miss important information

1:17

that the customer is trying

1:23

to say is say to us, because what they do

1:23

is they give us soundbites.

1:29

You know, remember the soundbite

1:29

we hear all the time

1:32

on the personal side,

1:32

I don't feel well today.

1:35

Well, we do good with that one.

1:37

We're an active listener with that one

1:37

because we'll lean in and go,

1:40

oh my God, Josh, what's the matter?

1:43

That's that's really listening

1:43

and showing concern.

1:46

Right, right. You're not going to go,

1:48

oh my God, someone called 911.

1:51

Hey, do we have defibrillators here? Hey, does anybody know what's

1:56

right? We're not going to react.

1:59

We're not going to assume

1:59

we're really going to drill down on the,

2:04

you know, initial statement

2:04

because I call it soundbites.

2:06

We're going to drill down that soundbite

2:06

until we get the information

2:10

we need to provide a customized solution.

2:14

But the problem is getting people

2:14

past that fix it mentality.

2:19

As soon as you say something. Let me fix that for you.

2:25

I love. It's funny because it's as we consult

2:25

with some podcast hosts.

2:30

I talk to a lot of them about that

2:30

because I'm like, you're the host.

2:34

I've had you on because you're an expert.

2:37

Why am I going to talk over you?

2:42

I want to hear I had you here

2:43

because I'd like to hear from you.

2:45

Yes. Yes.

2:48

So that's

2:48

the main thing, is getting people

2:50

to understand that selling is not telling.

2:54

True. Selling is asking questions and listening,

2:55

but getting people to get past

3:00

their initial reaction of reacting

3:05

to what people say instead of taking time

3:05

to respond to what people say.

3:09

That that makes perfect sense. And I mean, I see this everywhere,

3:11

every day, all the time.

3:14

When we're in the intro, I said, we're

3:14

going to help a lot of places in life.

3:18

Yes, I agree of you've mentioned that, like early

3:20

in your experience

3:23

in your career, you were at a company

3:23

that prioritized training

3:27

and they taught you

3:27

not practicing on customers.

3:31

Yeah. You've talked a lot

3:33

about like role playing,

3:35

as a way to practice sales skills.

3:39

I'm someone that has a difficult time

3:39

sometimes with role playing.

3:41

So what are some tips that you can give

3:41

someone to, like, make that more realistic

3:46

and to bring some of those things

3:46

up ahead of time.

3:48

Well, the key thing is to use what I refer

3:48

to as preparation before your practice.

3:54

So I want to give you the answers

3:56

and then let you practice the answers.

4:01

Role playing

4:01

I think sometimes is viewed on oh my God.

4:04

They're going to put me on the spot

4:04

and I hope I can get through this.

4:09

Without looking like an idiot right.

4:12

But the preparation before the practice,

4:12

it's it's almost like, remember in school

4:16

they would give us a the, spelling test,

4:20

you know, and, you know, up until I forget what grade. But they'd give us the answers on Monday.

4:24

When you really think about it. Yeah. No, they wouldn't be.

4:25

Those were the answers.

4:27

And all we had to do was practice them.

4:29

They'd actually give you

4:29

a little trial test on Wednesday.

4:33

So any ones that you missed, you could

4:33

correct, you know, make some correction.

4:37

So on Friday

4:37

there was no reason not to get up.

4:39

Yeah. To get away.

4:39

What was the same thing?

4:43

Why would you get out there

4:43

in front of a customer and not be prepared

4:47

for anything

4:47

that may come up during this discussion?

4:52

Yeah, I mean, you I can't give you a little slip of paper and go, hey, look,

4:53

before we start the sale call.

4:57

Don't ask me about. Please don't say the price is too high.

5:00

I have no idea how to handle that.

5:03

And I give discounts

5:03

every time that comes up.

5:10

Preparation. I wrote a sales tip.

5:12

I think, you know,

5:12

I do those sales tips every Monday.

5:14

So I wrote a sale tip. About a year

5:14

and a half ago.

5:17

It was titled

5:17

Preparation Prevents Perspiration.

5:23

So that just be prepared, you know, so I would the best way to

5:25

to actually practice in that role play,

5:29

your best way to practice

5:29

is come up with a realistic scenario.

5:33

How should I respond to that scenario? Go over different ways to respond to it

5:35

and then practice that response.

5:38

Because think about it. How do we get better at anything?

5:42

Practice. Yeah. But if you and that 100% makes sense,

5:46

if you haven't been shown how to do it

5:46

correctly the first time,

5:52

all the practice in the world,

5:52

if you're practicing wrong

5:54

or you're practicing something random,

5:54

isn't going to make any sense.

5:57

Yeah. So if you prepare for that,

5:58

that that makes a world

6:02

more sense to me that so it is

6:02

that pricing objective or price price

6:07

objection or the, well,

6:07

I got to talk to my boss.

6:11

Herman. Objection. Well, let me think about it.

6:13

Yeah, or sometimes it's competitive.

6:15

If you're in a very highly competitive

6:15

industry, I'm going to get 3 or 4 quotes.

6:19

I'm just not going to go off

6:19

of what you told me.

6:22

So I'm going somewhere

6:22

and I might say to you, you know what?

6:25

Hey, thanks for coming out today. Just,

6:26

I'm going to get a couple of estimates.

6:29

What you what do I do?

6:34

What do I do now?

6:38

That's that's when the sweat comes. That's what.

6:41

And when they see the sweat stains,

6:41

if you haven't prepared

6:44

because it's going to come up. Yeah. So are you prepared for what's

6:45

going to come up during this discussion?

6:50

And, one of the things I heard a while

6:50

back,

6:54

the person said to me, don't practice

6:54

until you get it right.

6:57

Practice until you won't get it wrong.

7:00

So I think sometimes

7:00

we don't practice enough.

7:03

Sure, because there's a muscle memory

7:03

there of how

7:06

you would normally react

7:06

or respond to that.

7:09

How do I get past that? So I don't let my emotions control

7:10

what my mouth is going to say next.

7:16

It's funny, that brings

7:16

almost like a basketball analogy to me.

7:19

Like, I mean, you saw like Kobe Bryant,

7:19

people like that.

7:22

They could, they they could sink a basket.

7:24

Yeah. But they would still sit there like Steph

7:25

Curry for hours after hours at a time.

7:29

And just sinking baskets, sinking baskets

7:29

that they know how to do this.

7:33

So it becomes automatic. Yep. Yep. Until they just it's

7:35

they have to try to screw it up.

7:39

That's right. That's right. So let's practice.

7:42

Not till you get it right but let's

7:42

practice until you won't get it wrong

7:45

because there's a lot at stake. Sure,

7:45

this is my livelihood.

7:48

I'm a sales. I mess this up.

7:51

I'm. I'm eat tonight. I'm out. How does,

7:54

How does someone know

7:54

when they've started to reach that point?

7:59

I mean, because it's it's tough to be like. Okay, when when do I start?

8:04

Is there a light that comes on it? I mean, like, right now

8:05

my check engine lights on is,

8:10

is there something

8:10

when will someone know that

8:12

they're at that point where

8:12

this is going to be tough to mess up?

8:16

I think what happens is going back

8:16

to this whole thing around practice.

8:19

When you're practicing,

8:19

you're practicing with a partner.

8:22

That partner is also giving you feedback.

8:26

Okay, so now I'm gone.

8:28

After the practice is over, you may say to

8:28

me, hey, Marvin, you got it, man.

8:32

You didn't stumble. You didn't do. So that's that's what the.

8:36

It's just like the spelling test, right? You either get them all right

8:40

or you got a

8:40

red mark and you got to go back and look.

8:43

Yeah. And it makes sense too,

8:44

because I'm sorry this is being recorded.

8:47

So yeah, you can record

8:47

you can record yourself.

8:50

Oh and watch yourself now. You can go back and watch that practice

8:52

session pretty easy with the cell phone.

8:56

Pretty easy with the cell phone tablet. Yeah it's interesting too

8:58

because with that too the,

9:02

the the other thing is, is

9:02

I see so many role playing

9:05

scenarios set up as almost adversarial.

9:08

Whereas this it is like, hey,

9:10

I'm here to work with you instead of like,

9:10

I'm here to make

9:14

you better instead of to make you feel

9:14

like you're an idiot salesman.

9:17

You are you are spot on with that,

9:17

because the level of intensity of that

9:22

particular practice should really fit

9:22

where you're at right now.

9:26

So once you master that,

9:26

then I kick it up a notch,

9:30

then another notch,

9:30

then another notch, right?

9:32

So you continue to want grow

9:32

and get better.

9:35

Yeah. But this is not an adversarial.

9:37

Let me see if I can trick Josh. I'm I'm gonna get him this time.

9:40

Let me let me throw. No, I'm let you know.

9:43

Today we're going to practice

9:43

on how to overcome the price.

9:47

Objection. Let's talk about that.

9:50

Let's come up with some ways to respond

9:50

to it, and then we'll practice it.

9:54

So I'm not saying to myself,

9:54

okay, I'm gonna hit Josh with this,

10:00

With this

10:00

price object, someone gets you off guard.

10:02

Watch what's squirming. Oh, he's going to sweat. Yeah, that's that's

10:04

that's the typical old role playing model.

10:08

Now, I want you. I don't want you to.

10:11

I don't want you to fear this practice.

10:14

I want you to actually say, hey, Martin,

10:14

can you practice with me today?

10:18

Make sense? Because. Not because I want to get better.

10:21

Same team. Yeah, absolutely. Love them.

10:24

Absolutely love that. So you have a book.

10:26

And thank you for that for this copy.

10:26

Oh you'll appreciate that.

10:29

Training wheels. Yes I love the title.

10:32

Absolutely love that.

10:34

Look on the back by the way.

10:36

Let's see here. Oh yes.

10:40

Oh you have the picture of you and junior

10:40

as I say.

10:45

Is that junior? That's junior. And that is I love the bicycle.

10:49

I love the whole nine yards. That is very, very cool that you did that

10:53

with that. I mean, to me, there's the parallels

10:55

between learning how to ride a bike.

10:58

I did start with training wheels.

11:01

I ate a lot of dirt.

11:04

Oh. The I was very much, the.

11:10

You're going to learn how to ride

11:10

or you're not or you're not.

11:12

So get out there, kid.

11:15

Do. Wow. I mean, the analogy. Where'd that

11:16

come from? How did you come up with it?

11:19

It actually came from, my time with, J.P.

11:23

Robinson Jewelers. Okay. You were not going out on that sales

11:24

floor into.

11:28

You had the ability to overcome

11:28

some of the basic, fundamental

11:33

things that are going to be thrown at you

11:33

during that call.

11:36

So there was a regiment, preparation

11:36

and practice.

11:40

Preparation and practice.

11:42

And back then, they you weren't recorded.

11:45

If you were, it was this great big old

11:45

massive thing that they were doing.

11:49

It was not a cell was really

11:49

just a lot of practice, a lot of practice.

11:53

We would practice in between customers. We'd practice in the morning

11:55

for the store opened up.

11:57

We practice as a situation that didn't go

11:57

well after the customer left.

12:01

I mean, it was all about practice. I mean, I grew up in an organization

12:02

that spent

12:06

a lot of time preparing and practicing

12:09

what you're going to do

12:09

when the store opened up.

12:12

That's amazing that that truly.

12:14

So that's where I got my foundation for this. And then,

12:17

I started thinking about what my next book

12:17

was going to sound or look like,

12:21

and I started thinking

12:21

about this whole idea of how companies,

12:24

they would spend some time

12:24

preparing and practicing their people,

12:28

no different than what you would do

12:28

teaching a child how to ride a bike.

12:33

And I remember

12:33

I took that picture or somebody took the

12:35

I didn't take the picture, but I remember

12:35

somebody took a picture of me,

12:39

training junior

12:39

how to ride a bike for the first time.

12:42

And it's the same thing. And you just gave an example because

12:43

there's two ways to train somebody, right?

12:48

You're either going, there's your bike.

12:50

Right. I'm at it. Right?

12:53

I like it. I hope you don't break too many things or scar yourself

12:54

too much before you actually learn, right?

12:58

Right. And that's called learn by doing.

13:00

Right.

13:00

Or you can do what I did with Junior.

13:03

And you have one hand on the handlebar,

13:03

one hand on the seat,

13:07

and you're encouraging him

13:07

and talking to him and watching him.

13:11

As a matter of fact,

13:11

I and in the book I have an example,

13:14

because I remember him laughing at me

13:14

because I got on the bike first.

13:19

Right? And I, you know, in the my,

13:20

my knees are hitting us.

13:23

I was just about to say it kind of look

13:23

like the clown right across the clown.

13:28

Right. And he's laughing at me.

13:30

But I wanted to demonstrate to him

13:30

how easy it is.

13:33

And that's the thing I,

13:33

we kind of didn't talk about is

13:36

before I ask you to practice,

13:39

I'm going to demonstrate

13:39

that that's part of the preparation

13:42

is me demonstrating

13:42

how to overcome that price objection,

13:46

how to overcome postponement,

13:46

how to overcome competition.

13:51

Because because you may be sitting there

13:51

thinking, oh,

13:54

easy for you to say, right?

13:57

You want me to do this? Can you?

13:59

Right, right, right.

14:01

No for sure. Right. So it's demonstrating it to

14:03

yeah I and I see it all the time.

14:07

It's interesting how that I mean that crosses over

14:08

and because there's so many areas

14:13

plus for me like I am a visual learner.

14:17

Okay. If I see you ride a bike and you're

14:20

explaining how to ride the bike,

14:20

I gonna be like, oh, I can ride the bike.

14:24

Got it. You give me an instruction manual

14:25

and I'm going to look at it like it's

14:27

like a space plane

14:27

just landed in front of me. Oh.

14:31

Yeah. Same thing. I'm the same way.

14:33

We're both on the same page with that one.

14:38

What are a couple of training wheels that.

14:41

I mean, I know the practice. Let's say someone's at home.

14:44

What's a training wheel

14:44

that they can use to practice that before

14:48

they the before they go out

14:50

when get in front of a customer

14:50

I think I think it's really simple.

14:54

It's it's identifying.

14:54

It's self awareness.

14:57

It's identifying the areas

14:57

that I know that I'm

14:59

going to struggle in with, on this call.

15:03

And maybe it's not objections for you.

15:05

Maybe it's, I do a training

15:08

whole series

15:08

on mastering the sales essentials.

15:11

So you want to practice areas

15:11

that you feel that you're not good at.

15:16

Maybe it's,

15:16

I call it doing the verbal agenda,

15:18

because a lot of times you just want to

15:18

jump right into, the sale of the pitch.

15:23

Yeah. Opposed to saying, hey, Josh,

15:23

let me share with you what the next,

15:27

15, 20 minutes is going to look like. Very, very similar to what you did with me

15:29

today.

15:33

You you really laid out the whole thing

15:33

before we actually did it, right?

15:37

Well, why not do that with a customer? Because, first of all, let's face it, just

15:39

the salespeople have a good reputation.

15:45

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say. I mean,

15:50

we're we're we're on the same level

15:50

as maybe attorneys.

15:53

And, and we were yeah, we're low.

15:56

We're low on that totem pole

15:56

right up there.

15:58

We're not thought very highly, especially

15:58

if you're if you're coming into my home

16:03

business businesses sell me something

16:03

that busted or crashed or whatever.

16:08

Unexpectedly. Sure. So now I'm mad

16:09

because I got to spend money.

16:12

Yeah, and I got to spend money

16:12

with someone I don't even know,

16:14

who's probably trying to trick me

16:14

and sell me

16:17

something that I really don't need,

16:17

because I really not know too much

16:21

about this product or service

16:21

or talking about so how do I build that?

16:25

Know, like, and trust,

16:25

you know, so a lot of my practicing

16:30

or a lot of that person's

16:30

practicing should be around.

16:32

Am I building the no. Like and trust?

16:35

I'm working with a company right now

16:35

on eight areas

16:38

that you have to build that know,

16:38

like, and trust and should be practicing.

16:43

One is how prepared are you?

16:45

We we talked about this already today.

16:47

How prepared are you for that meeting?

16:49

Did you go on

16:49

LinkedIn to look their name up?

16:53

Did you research their company?

16:55

Did you find some kind of connection?

16:57

So when you first meet with them, you have a rapport

16:59

builder already prepared

17:02

because you found out

17:02

you went to the same this or or,

17:05

you know, the same that or so first one

17:05

is that going back to that

17:09

preparation, what kind of preparation

17:09

did you do prior to the call?

17:13

Second one is did you have an opportunity

17:13

to call them to let you know

17:17

or to confirm that appointment? So what does that sound like?

17:21

Is it just robotic? So because answering service. Yeah.

17:25

Because because you

17:25

that's a great opportunity to make a what

17:29

good first impression. Sure. Then you get to the door or their office.

17:33

You know, what does that look like. What does that sound like.

17:36

Do you engage them in the conversation?

17:38

Did your face look, pleasant and

17:38

professional and as well as you yourself?

17:43

So we talk about what goes into that

17:43

and preparing for that.

17:47

Do you need the practice?

17:49

The, like I said, that verbal agenda,

17:51

you know, that leads into that needs assessment,

17:52

which needs to be practiced too, you know,

17:56

because a lot of times we forget,

17:56

like going to a doctor's office,

17:58

you go to the doctor's office,

17:58

they don't tell you anything about that.

18:01

Think about this is kind of scary when you think about the doctor.

18:05

No, no, there's random person.

18:07

Could you imagine walking into slides? I think back and go,

18:09

oh, Marvin, hey, sit down.

18:12

Let me tell you about the doctor

18:12

that's going to see you today.

18:15

Do you know he graduated from. No.

18:18

Yeah. You don't even know if he is or her

18:19

or she is a real doctor.

18:23

Right? You're just trusting, right?

18:25

They are. Right. They got a white lab

18:26

coat on and a stethoscope.

18:28

That's what I see in the movie. Anybody can come out.

18:33

Because it's all about

18:33

what they're examining you.

18:36

It's not about them. It's about you. Yeah.

18:39

So that's a practice

18:39

topic of preparation and practice.

18:42

Topic knowing what to ask okay.

18:44

Love it. Yeah. And then like you said, overcoming

18:46

objections and closing the sale

18:46

and following up and reaffirming.

18:50

There's so many different areas

18:50

that people need to really

18:54

just break it down into those,

18:54

break it down to pieces. Yeah.

18:57

Because you want to practice wholesale

18:57

okay.

18:59

You want to practice ingredients

19:01

of that of that sell

19:01

because a wholesales too much makes sense.

19:05

Yeah. Makes oh that makes perfect sense.

19:08

I see a lot of business owners that when they get busy, they're like,

19:10

hey, I don't have time to sell.

19:14

Then when they, they,

19:17

they, they hit the sales hard,

19:20

then all those sales come in,

19:23

or are they, when they're busy,

19:23

they don't have time to sell.

19:26

So sales die off. Yeah.

19:29

Then they go out and sell like a mad man.

19:31

Then there's that vicious cycle.

19:34

What's what's the way

19:34

to find that balance in there?

19:37

Do you tell people to like,

19:37

look, you just need to schedule time.

20:25

Yeah. You have to make time,

20:25

for those opportunities.

20:28

Because if you're a small business and you and I know about small businesses

20:29

because I do, we do with cozy.

20:33

Right. And the problem is you're wearing

20:35

not only the production hat, you're

20:39

wearing the sales hat, you're wearing

20:39

the accounting hat, you're wearing the.

20:44

Oh, I got to go out

20:44

to this cozy, networking hat.

20:50

Yes, we do.

20:52

And by the way, I gotta have

20:52

the sales hat on somewhere in there.

20:55

Yeah,

20:55

so you have to make time to go out and,

20:59

you know, make yourself available to,

20:59

to get new opportunity.

21:02

It's just not like what you said.

21:04

It's a vicious cycle.

21:06

Or, like we talked about at the, at the,

21:06

cozy,

21:10

summit, we talked about the importance of

21:10

is it time to hire?

21:14

Sure. A salesperson. Right.

21:16

Because maybe that's

21:16

really not your forte anyhow,

21:19

because maybe you're avoiding it. That's

21:21

maybe that's why it's not happening. That's the.

21:23

That is an excellent segue

21:23

into my next thing.

21:26

So I was listening to another podcast

21:26

today

21:29

and he, the, the guest was talking.

21:33

He basically said, success in sales

21:36

directly correlates with the person's

21:36

ability to eat rejection for breakfast.

21:40

Oh, yeah. Is that do you find that some of the case?

21:44

Yeah. I tell people, if anybody ask you,

21:45

what do you do all day?

21:48

Oh, I get rejected. Right.

21:53

The average close rate,

21:56

she's somewhere around 35, 40%.

22:00

I mean, if you get up there in your 50s,

22:00

that's that's pretty doggone good.

22:04

But that means even if you're at 50,

22:04

that means

22:07

50% of the time,

22:07

you're what it's like being, about.

22:10

Yeah, it's like being in baseball. Yeah, you can think about it.

22:13

You can, you can you can actually have

22:13

an average of two to 10 to 50.

22:18

Yeah. And get paid a lot of money.

22:21

But think about it. Yeah. You're only getting on base.

22:24

Yeah 20% of the time.

22:27

Yeah. Now that makes sense. That's that it's tough odds

22:28

to go out there and to realize that,

22:34

okay, this rejection does not mean that

22:34

the next one's going to be a rejection.

22:37

Yeah. What I mean, are there

22:38

some tools that you tell people that like,

22:42

look, we know you just

22:42

got handed a poop sandwich.

22:46

How do you eat that and move along to the next place

22:48

without showing them?

22:51

Hey, I just had a poop sandwich

22:51

down the road,

22:54

how can I? Yeah, yeah. One of the first things

22:57

I always talk about, whether I'm coaching

22:57

or I'm doing a seminar,

23:00

I always talk about attitude

23:00

is everything.

23:04

You have to have a strong resolve.

23:06

I was listening to, a coach,

23:10

doing a news conference, and he was saying, man, you guys are on a 14 game

23:12

losing streak.

23:15

He said it was 14 games.

23:18

You know, because you have to just

23:18

you got to forget about what happened.

23:22

You know, you have to have a short memory.

23:25

I had a salesman tell me, he says. I look at I look at it

23:27

as a it's a mental marathon.

23:31

And if you don't have that mental

23:31

toughness,

23:33

that sales is not

23:33

for the week of week at heart.

23:36

Sure. Because, you and by the way, these

23:39

these this rejection comes in strings.

23:43

I mean always not just like here

23:43

and there.

23:46

Yeah. No, no, you you could go up five,

23:47

five opportunities and go oh for five.

23:51

Yeah yeah, yeah. But then you can go back out again

23:53

and go five and.

23:55

Oh yeah, it's funny because you're

23:55

and you're right because you're,

23:59

there's times where you go out

23:59

and you're like, I'm invincible.

24:03

And then you go out the next day

24:03

and you're like, I'm an idiot.

24:05

Yeah. And you're the same person. But the challenge is

24:10

it's a different situation, right?

24:14

So yeah, to answer your question,

24:14

there's there's got to be a mental

24:17

toughness there. You you you

24:17

you can that let the last situation,

24:23

whether you made it or didn't

24:23

make it affect how you're going to handle

24:26

the next one coming to you, makes sense. That's why that preparation in practice

24:28

is so important to stay sharp,

24:31

to stay fresh. Sure. It's funny, a lot of the stuff

24:33

that you're saying is, is very I mean,

24:38

it held true years ago.

24:41

It holds true today.

24:44

Are there any pieces of sales

24:44

that you see that

24:46

are like where fundamentals are changing?

24:50

Yeah. I think the technology area, area

24:55

era that we live in now,

24:55

it really makes it tougher

24:59

for salespeople to be as effective

25:03

as they were in the past.

25:05

So, I mean, you have to really be,

25:05

tenacious.

25:11

You have that. You can't just give up.

25:13

I was I'm working with a group right now

25:13

because they have a low close rate

25:16

on the first time in,

25:16

because it's very competitive industry,

25:20

but they're very bad at follow up.

25:23

We, I title the training.

25:25

Don't use the f word,

25:28

because when they would follow up,

25:31

they would say, hey, Josh,

25:31

this is my ring.

25:34

I'm just following up. Oh, gosh. Now this year

25:36

you had a chance to talk to your wife.

25:38

Yeah. I'm going. No, you're not following up

25:40

to see if they talk to the wife.

25:44

No no no, no. As soon as I see

25:46

follow in an email, I'm like, I'm outside.

25:49

You're calling back to get them on

25:49

the schedule.

25:52

You're calling back to get this thing

25:52

moving. You.

25:55

You have to have a positive assumptive

25:55

mindset even before you make the call.

26:00

I'm not calling the follow up. I'm calling to get this thing closed out

26:02

so we can get this thing moving forward.

26:06

Oh, I love that. Absolutely. That's so that's

26:09

I think the biggest change is our

26:09

our ability to get Ahold of people.

26:14

I think people's patience is not like

26:14

it kind of used to be.

26:18

Sure. They can avoid

26:21

us if you're trying to get somebody

26:21

initially.

26:24

Right. So we have to be a lot more creative.

26:27

Sure. And how we go about getting that

26:27

first opportunity, that makes sense.

26:33

This is one

26:33

that I've been really excited to ask you.

26:37

I think we may have touched on it

26:37

a little bit.

26:39

What are some of the biggest

26:39

misconceptions

26:43

people have about the sales profession

26:43

as a whole?

26:48

From a customer standpoint

26:48

or from someone who is in John Q public?

26:53

Oh, yeah.

26:55

They John Q public really

26:57

thinks it's something that,

27:01

they have to get involved in.

27:03

They'd rather have a root canal doing

27:06

and then deal with the deal

27:06

with the salesperson, because we,

27:11

and I think it goes back to what

27:11

one of the first questions you ask me,

27:15

no one wants to spend time

27:18

with someone

27:18

that all they do is tell and sell, right?

27:22

So you cannot come across salesy.

27:26

This should just be two people.

27:26

That's why.

27:28

Let me go back to that one thing that you need to have down pat,

27:29

which is that verbal agenda.

27:33

See that verbal agenda

27:33

gives me an opportunity for you to go,

27:38

oh man, that's great. I thought you were coming here to sell me

27:39

something, you know?

27:42

In other words, I have an opportunity

27:42

now to put your mind at ease.

27:46

Yeah, and let them know that. Look, the goal

27:47

this meeting is to see if there's a need

27:51

for the product or service

27:51

that I'm providing.

27:53

And to determine

27:53

that there's a couple questions I'm

27:56

going to ask you, Josh, and your answers

27:56

you give me.

27:59

Well, let me know whether or not we're going to have an opportunity to work together

28:01

today.

28:04

I love that. So and that. It's funny with that agenda too.

28:07

It shows that, hey,

28:07

there's a structure to this.

28:11

I'm not just going to put you in the corner

28:12

and beat you up until you say yes.

28:14

Yeah, yeah. That's why I said it's either.

28:18

Yes, you have to have the mindset

28:18

that this is an opportunity

28:21

that's going to end with either a yes or not. Now make sense?

28:24

It's never no

28:24

because time brings about a change. Yep.

28:28

You know and we may in that way I might say,

28:28

look, just based on what you shared

28:32

with me today, it looks like we're not

28:32

going to be able to to work together.

28:36

And obviously I'm a little disappointed. But hey, when do you think

28:37

we should revisit this conversation?

28:40

Sure. In the future. You tell me. 30 days, 60 days, 90 days.

28:44

I want to put you on my calendar because I really enjoyed

28:45

the time I spent with you today.

28:47

What do you think? That makes sense? You and I are going to agree.

28:51

Or we're going to revisit this again,

28:51

because sometime it's not now.

28:53

Right? And I'm okay with that. I wrote another tip that was titled

28:55

don't Be a Sore loser,

28:58

because I think another perception is

28:58

if I don't go

29:01

along with what you're selling me,

29:01

you're going to turn into this monster.

29:06

Yeah, the monster. And I don't want that.

29:11

That's why I don't tell you. I don't want to buy. I just say, hey,

29:12

can I just think about this price?

29:16

Right? I want to let you down easy.

29:19

Right? Right. It's like the bad relationship.

29:21

It's not you. It's me. It's me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

29:23

totally makes sense.

29:25

Don't get mad at me because I'm not buying into that. Please.

29:30

I don't want go out

29:30

and with find a nice person right now.

29:33

What's going to happen

29:33

when I tell, you know,

29:37

so instead of telling you that, I'm

29:37

going to say, let me think about it.

29:39

Right, right. I'll let you down easy. Know it's not easy. Yeah,

29:41

I hope you go away.

29:43

Right, right. No. 100%. That's funny.

29:48

If someone was going

29:48

to start a career in sales or is thinking

29:51

about starting a career in sales,

29:51

what advice would you give them?

29:55

I think, first of all,

29:58

being in

29:58

sales, I think is one of the best careers

30:00

you can ever be in

30:00

because you said it earlier,

30:02

nothing happens

30:02

unless somebody sell something.

30:05

I think people realize that

30:05

everything's a sale.

30:08

You know, I volunteer my time

30:08

for the Hudson job search, and I let that

30:11

those group of people

30:11

that are in transition,

30:13

this is the biggest sell you ever made. You're never going to make it yourself.

30:16

You're selling yourself in this interview.

30:19

You know, and I remind people that

30:19

think about when you wanted to use the car

30:24

for the first time, that was

30:24

that was a sale you were selling somebody.

30:30

Please let me use the car. Yeah.

30:32

And you, you sold them and they

30:32

they finally gave in.

30:35

They finally gave you a key, and you walked out with.

30:39

Yeah, definitely.

30:42

I made that sale. Yeah. All you want is go, remember, it's cool

30:43

they have those little things or,

30:48

or the, the,

30:48

the class was going off on a trip and.

30:51

Oh, yeah, you didn't had the money, right? You had to get the money from mom, so

30:53

you had to sell mom on the idea of 100%.

30:58

Yeah. So it's all a sell,

30:58

but I think the degree is if someone's

31:03

looking to get in sales, and I do work

31:03

with companies that are doing interviews,

31:07

and one of the first questions

31:07

I ask them is why sales?

31:10

And if they come back and say, well,

31:10

I feel I'm a good talker.

31:14

Well, I just this is not the industry for you

31:15

then, right?

31:19

Because sales is not for everybody. Just like being a doctor,

31:20

this is a profession

31:24

and I want people to know that there's

31:24

things that you have to learn.

31:27

And are you willing to go to that extent

31:27

to educate yourself and learn it?

31:31

Now, you're not going to get a degree

31:31

from Harvard.

31:34

Well, you know, an a doctor

31:34

and but it's still the same thing.

31:37

I tell people all the time, I feel like

31:37

I get my MBA from JBR Arms and Jewelers

31:42

because they really believe

31:42

in training and developing people.

31:45

Remember you heard the expression,

31:45

is a salesperson born or is it made?

31:49

I think it's a combination of both. I think there's some things

31:51

that you really have to have,

31:53

but you can be trained, you know, to be

31:53

a very effective in this profession.

31:59

What's one question you wish

31:59

you were asked more often about sales?

32:10

You may have me there.

32:12

That's why this is called Pearl stopper.

32:14

Yeah, yeah. No. We stop. We.

32:18

There are no softballs in here

32:18

or no softballs in here.

32:22

Oh, that's the Stomper Stomper here.

32:24

So you're asking me what's one question?

32:24

What again?

32:27

What's one question you wish

32:27

people asked you more often about sales?

32:33

I think it goes back to,

32:33

if people would ask,

32:37

how do I become one of the best at sales?

32:41

So that's really what I drilled

32:41

into the heads of,

32:45

about six people this morning.

32:48

Guys, ladies,

32:50

you have to be better at listening.

32:54

So it's really a combination of asking

32:57

and listening and listening and asking.

33:00

You're doing those two things in tandem

33:00

so you can provide

33:03

a customized solution.

33:07

I've always been taught you never get the first response.

33:11

You usually need, to start talking.

33:15

It's usually the drilled down questions

33:15

you ask that provides

33:19

the additional information

33:19

that you need to provide that solution.

33:23

So, people need to ask more,

33:23

what do I need

33:29

to do to be better at what I'm doing?

33:31

And you never reach there.

33:34

You know, you continue to polish

33:38

and hone in and get better at this.

33:41

That's why I like doing the training,

33:41

because even today, the topic was.

33:45

What's the difference between an objection

33:48

and a complaint? And I went, oh, nobody's ever asked.

33:52

Interesting. Because we talk about overcoming

33:53

customer objections.

33:56

Right. But sometimes what we talked about today

33:57

is sometimes it's not an objection.

34:02

Sometimes it's a complaint. Sure.

34:04

The customer says, man,

34:04

this price is kind of high,

34:07

but that doesn't mean

34:07

your price is too high.

34:10

Maybe they're complaining about the price they have to pay.

34:15

Sure. So what you want to be able to do

34:16

is determine which one is it?

34:21

Is it a complaint or is it an objection?

34:24

Well, you're only going to find out

34:24

is if you go back to the basic,

34:28

basic principle of what? Asking. Yeah.

34:31

There's an old adage it's

34:31

that says I like to sing just

34:35

it says smart people know what to say,

34:38

because just because you're smart doesn't

34:38

mean you're going to be good in sales.

34:42

Because usually what you're smart

34:42

are you going to do

34:45

is provide an information dump

34:45

about how smart you are.

34:48

Sure. So the saying says

34:49

smart people know what to say,

34:53

but wise people know what

34:53

it should be said.

34:57

So you need to be. If you're going to be good

34:58

in this profession, you need to be both smart and wise,

35:00

smart and wise.

35:05

You just can't be smart. Smart is not good enough.

35:09

I absolutely, absolutely love that.

35:12

To me, that seems like an amazing place

35:12

to live off.

35:16

Marvin, I really appreciate you

35:16

taking the time and coming in today.

35:19

This has been awesome. Yeah.

35:19

Absolutely awesome.

35:22

You got my motor running good good good

35:22

good for all of you out there.

35:26

To me, once again, sales is everywhere.

35:29

It's in everything. And what I find so interesting

35:31

about our conversation

35:34

today is Marvin

35:34

talked a lot about preparation,

35:37

which is what we talk about a lot

35:37

in podcasting

35:41

asking the right questions, showing up

35:41

and making sure that you are ready.

35:46

That being said,

35:46

make sure that you take care of yourself

35:49

and if you can,

35:49

take care of someone else too.

35:51

I will see you soon. If you owe

35:58

me so go.