0:00

Welcome to the Power Within the

0:02

podcast , where we explore leadership , personal

0:05

growth and the dynamics that shape success

0:07

. I'm

0:15

Keith Power , and each week , I

0:17

sit down with inspiring individuals

0:19

who share insights on leading with

0:21

impact , building resilience and

0:23

unlocking potential . On leading with impact , building resilience

0:25

and unlocking potential . Through their experiences

0:27

, we'll uncover the mindset and strategies

0:30

that drive meaningful growth . Whether

0:33

you're looking to evolve as a leader or

0:35

gain new perspectives , this podcast

0:37

is here to guide you . Today , I'm

0:40

honoured to welcome Colonel Eddie Maskell-Pedersen

0:42

, head of the British Defence Staff in

0:44

Southeast Asia , defense Advisor

0:46

to Singapore , as

0:52

we explore more stories of resilience , growth

0:54

and the power of determination . Eddie is a highly respected

0:56

military leader with a wealth of experience in strategy

0:59

, resilience and decision-making

1:01

under pressure . Having

1:03

served in demanding operational environments

1:05

, he has witnessed firsthand the

1:08

power of adaptability , clarity

1:11

and inner strength . In

1:14

this episode , we'll explore Eddie's

1:16

insights into leading in high-stakes

1:19

environments , how to

1:21

develop a resilient mindset and

1:23

the lessons that military leadership can

1:26

offer in all fields , including

1:28

business . So , eddie

1:30

, we met each other fairly recently

1:32

at it was a dinner

1:35

with our professor , professor

1:37

Prem Shamdasani , who's also

1:39

known as Dr Love , but that's for another podcast

1:42

. Fascinating

1:44

having such a guest as you there

1:46

immediately thought of inviting you

1:48

today . At first , can

1:50

you just introduce yourself a little bit

1:53

and tell us how you ended up in

1:55

Singapore heading the

1:58

defence for the British Armed

2:00

Forces here .

2:01

Thank you very much for the kind invite today

2:03

. I'm delighted to join this podcast

2:05

series and share some of my experiences

2:08

and lessons on leadership and

2:10

I think it's anyone who works in a leadership

2:13

position . It's a journey that starts

2:15

at the beginning of your career and you continue

2:18

to learn as you go , so it's definitely something I'm not a

2:20

master at , but I'm definitely enjoying my journey

2:22

so far and it's fantastic to meet you with

2:24

Dr Prim or , as you said , more commonly referred

2:26

to as Dr Love . It's fantastic

2:28

to do the international executive management

2:31

course with the National Business

2:33

School of Singapore , partnered with Stanford

2:36

University , so a really good chance to immerse

2:39

myself in some of the thinking in this region 18

2:42

months ago . A

2:44

little bit about me so I am

2:46

a British Army officer , so I'm a colonel

2:48

. I started my military journey

2:50

back in 1998 and

2:53

commissioned in 1999

2:55

into the British Army , into the Royal

2:57

Corps of Signals . I've stayed

3:00

both technical in terms of some

3:02

of the roles I've done , but I've

3:04

also worked in some of the more generalist environments

3:06

, supporting the infantry

3:08

and other roles throughout my career , and

3:11

I've been really fortunate or unfortunate , depending

3:14

on what way you look at it of being employed in quite

3:16

a few operational deployments . So

3:18

I've served in Northern Ireland , kosovo

3:20

, bosnia , macedonia

3:23

, iraq , afghanistan

3:25

, and then back to Iraq again on

3:28

my most recent operational deployment , where I was

3:30

the lead operational planner for

3:32

a task force combating ISIS in

3:34

the Middle East . So I've had a really

3:36

colourful career in what we would call more regimental

3:39

duties functions , but in

3:41

what we call staff appointments . I've

3:43

also had the opportunity to be employed

3:46

as a capability sponsor for

3:48

soldier systems demolitions

3:50

, but then also had the

3:52

opportunity in my last role before coming out

3:54

to this region , to be the military

3:57

assistant to

3:59

the vice chief of the defence staff in the Ministry

4:01

of Defence and in that role

4:03

, in that capacity , effectively it's almost like as

4:05

his executive officer , helping

4:08

defence move forward with

4:10

some of the really big , challenging

4:15

problems we see today . And

4:17

during my tenure , three of the big events was the integrated review in 2021

4:20

, which was a cross-departmental review

4:22

into defence and security , our

4:25

defence contribution to try

4:27

and combat what was happening with

4:29

COVID-19 , both for the

4:31

UK but also with our international partners globally

4:33

, and then also

4:35

trying to deal with the implications of Russia's

4:38

illegal invasion of Ukraine as well . So

4:40

some really big events taking place during my tenure in

4:42

that role , but it was actually when I was working

4:45

on the integrated review with

4:47

the team in the Ministry of Defence in 2021

4:49

, which really started sparking

4:52

my interest within this region which is why I'm here today

4:54

and we talked about the importance of

4:56

the Indo-Pacific , the indivisibility

4:58

of the Euro-Atlantic security with

5:01

the Indo-Pacific region , and

5:04

when I was due to move on from my appointment , there was an

5:06

opportunity to take up the position I'm in now

5:08

as a head of the British Defence Staff

5:10

for Southeast Asia , but then

5:12

also the Defence Advisor to Singapore , and

5:15

in that capacity it gives me a wonderful

5:18

insight to this magical region , a

5:20

very important role

5:22

to contribute to the UK's part in

5:24

providing a safe and secure Indo-Pacific

5:26

and a fantastic place for my family

5:28

to grow and get exposed to

5:31

cultures and environments and experiences that

5:33

they wouldn't do back in the United Kingdom

5:35

. So I've had a wonderful journey so far

5:37

. But in addition to those military experiences

5:40

, what I've also had the opportunity

5:42

to do is to develop myself professionally , and

5:45

so I now have a Masters

5:47

of Arts with King's College University . I've

5:50

got an MSc with Cranfield University

5:52

in Defence Technology . I'm

5:54

a Fellow of the Chartered Engineers of

5:56

the International Institute of Engineering

5:58

and then , more recently , obviously , a graduate

6:01

from the NUS International Executive

6:03

Management class as well . As

6:05

I say , it's a continual journey , continual education

6:07

, and I feel really privileged to be

6:09

in the leadership position I'm in right now .

6:11

That sounds an absolutely fascinating

6:14

journey that you've been on . I'm looking forward

6:16

to delving into that a little bit more . And

6:18

the International Management Programme was

6:20

indeed fabulous exposure

6:24

, and for me it was an

6:26

exposure to the military , because it's

6:28

very well supported by the military in

6:30

Singapore , and I think there were seven

6:32

serving officers when I was undertaking

6:35

mine , which was 12 years

6:37

ago . Now I'd like to move on

6:39

and I've got some really searching

6:41

questions for you , but I've already

6:43

heard mind-blowing content

6:46

. So can you share a

6:49

defining moment in your career where

6:51

leadership under pressure made all

6:54

the difference ?

6:55

I have quite a lot of examples

6:57

I can give , but I'll share one , actually , which was at an earlier

6:59

stage of my career . Which was at an earlier stage of

7:01

my career . So I was a young

7:03

officer . I deployed on my second

7:06

operational deployment

7:08

to Kosovo on this occasion , and

7:11

I was the head of a function providing force

7:14

protection to not just British service

7:16

personnel but

7:23

coalition forces involved in the operation in Kosovo . And

7:26

at that point in time the force protection we provided was static and we didn't have the ability

7:29

to deliver it in a mobile sense , so we were limited

7:31

in terms of what we could provide to our

7:33

coalition forces . The biggest

7:35

lesson I learned was you don't have to do it on your own . So

7:39

I looked across the coalition of other

7:41

elements providing similar functions

7:43

as myself and worked out if we

7:46

pulled together an international grouping of

7:48

people both equipment capabilities

7:50

but also the experience of our personnel

7:52

we would cut . We could come up with

7:54

a deployable function to do that

7:56

, and so so for

7:58

me it was . There was a real problem . There

8:01

was . There was no sovereign

8:03

solution to it , but working together as part of a coalition

8:05

, moving beyond just national

8:07

elements but internationally , we

8:10

came up with a capability that could genuinely

8:12

protect our service personnel . And

8:15

when I proposed this up my chain of command , the

8:18

freedom they gave me to just get on and do

8:20

it was really empowering

8:22

and I've tried to take this

8:24

forward throughout my career of every

8:26

opportunity being great in the sum of

8:28

our individual parts working together as a team

8:30

, but equally , you

8:33

know , asking for freedoms from my

8:35

higher command but in the same

8:37

breath giving as much freedom as I can down

8:39

to empower my people to

8:42

have the ability to solve problems

8:44

and come up with solutions to

8:46

it , and sometimes not just

8:48

through their own endeavour but working together

8:51

with others as well .

8:52

The only surprise in there to me as

8:54

a non-military person , is that

8:57

latitude and freedom you're given . You

8:59

said it was relatively early on in your career

9:01

, so if you were to

9:04

tell people who are deciding

9:06

what they're going to do after university , would

9:10

you suggest a military career

9:12

over a business career ?

9:13

I'd suggest that both . There's

9:15

definitely a relationship with both , but both

9:17

can complement each other . So when

9:19

I did the international executive management course

9:22

, I was really surprised of how

9:24

many lessons I learned were transferable to the

9:26

business environment , and

9:28

some of them I think we we take for granted

9:30

. So my my first

9:33

command position , and anyone

9:35

who joins the military as an officer in

9:37

the army , your first position tends to be

9:39

a platoon command or a troop command . So

9:42

for me , I commissioned from Sandhurst as a

9:44

20 year old young man but , I was only

9:47

20 years old and I found

9:49

myself in a privileged position where I was in command of

9:51

about 30 soldiers

9:53

, the majority of which were older than

9:55

I were , the majority of which were far

9:57

more experienced than I was in the military

10:00

practitioner that we do , um

10:02

, but I was a commander , and so

10:05

so I had to listen to my team

10:07

and listen to those with more experience than me . Um

10:10

, in most of those roles , you have a

10:12

deputy in the term of a troop

10:14

sergeant or a troop staff sergeant or color

10:16

sergeant . If you're in the infantry , who'll

10:19

be your utter rock , who has the

10:21

experience and the wisdom and

10:23

advise you and guide you on that journey . And

10:26

I was really lucky . I had some phenomenal

10:28

soldiers who were those principal advisors

10:31

for me , and , in

10:33

addition to my chain of command giving me that freedom

10:35

, they also gave me the freedom to grow

10:37

and develop , and so yeah

10:39

. So , at the age of , as I say , 20 years old , I

10:41

had a troop of 30 people under my command when

10:44

I did my first operational deployment to Bosnia

10:46

, and I can't think of many

10:48

businesses or many organizations that will give you that

10:50

freedom to do that .

10:51

Agreed .

10:52

And that continues on throughout my journey . As

10:54

you get more senior , the responsibilities grow , the

10:56

complexities grow , and so

10:58

, yeah , I definitely think for

11:00

someone who's adventurous , who wants to do something a bit

11:02

different , wants a the response

11:05

to be at a young age in their career to generally

11:07

consider that , and equally

11:09

, our soldiers as well . More and more we're

11:11

encouraging soldiers , sailors

11:14

, aviators , to truly

11:16

be entrepreneurial

11:18

, to innovate , come up with new ways of delivering

11:20

our outputs , and some

11:22

of the generation coming behind us are coming up with phenomenal

11:25

things that we couldn't have imagined a

11:27

year ago , a decade ago , two decades ago

11:29

, and it's wonderful seeing

11:32

how we are evolving as an organisation as well Fantastic

11:34

.

11:35

I'm almost jealous now that I chose a business

11:37

career . So in military

11:39

leadership , quick decision-making

11:42

is crucial sometimes . How do

11:44

you train yourself and others to

11:47

make effective decisions in high

11:49

pressure situations ?

11:51

In the British Army we adopt

11:53

something called mission command , and

11:55

a mission command absolutely

11:58

is about speed of decision making , often

12:00

when you've not got access to

12:02

your higher command to check and ask

12:05

questions for further information . And

12:07

so what this is about is , whatever

12:09

level of command you are , is you

12:11

understanding absolutely your

12:14

higher command intent ? So your one up , as we

12:16

refer to it , so they tell you what

12:18

your mission is , what you need to achieve , and

12:20

you understand how that plays a

12:22

part in the bigger picture at that next level up . But

12:30

it doesn't stop there . We then also have to understand the higher command above

12:32

them as well . So we refer to that as a two-up . So we understand the big picture . So the

12:34

more we understand that if we are isolated

12:36

from our command and we evolved in a situation

12:39

when we need to make decisions quickly , we

12:41

could do so because we understand our role in

12:43

a bigger picture , and then

12:45

that does allow freedom of decision making and

12:47

the ability to move quickly

12:50

, and I do think that's

12:52

as applicable in a military

12:55

battlefield context is

12:57

in a business context . So

12:59

as I progress throughout my career and I've

13:01

unfortunately taken my uniform off in certain roles

13:03

and wear a shirt and tie understanding

13:06

the big picture becomes more and more important

13:08

, because it's no longer just what's

13:11

this regiment , this battalion , this brigade

13:13

, this division formation , you

13:15

know , consideration , it's actually what

13:18

do we want to achieve nationally . And

13:20

I find myself , you know , in this hugely privileged

13:22

position now where , as a head of the British Defence Staff

13:24

for Southeast Asia , I'm

13:27

in Singapore . I work with all

13:29

of the seven residential DAs we've got

13:31

across Southeast Asia working with our ASEAN partners

13:33

, and it's not just about

13:35

what we're doing here , it's trying to understand what

13:37

, nationally , we're trying to do and how we contribute

13:40

to our national outputs and relationships

13:42

across this region , to our national outputs and relationships

13:44

across this region . So it does allow for speed of decision-making

13:46

and , equally , when we are a

13:49

different side of the world in a different time zone

13:51

, it means we have the freedoms to get

13:53

on , make decisions and move things forward and

13:55

then refer back when we need to , but

13:58

only when we must . If we need

14:00

to make decisions quickly , we've got the freedoms to do so In

14:02

my roles in the last 15 years

14:04

in Asia , I appreciated time

14:07

zones .

14:07

They do give you that latitude and freedom . You

14:10

have to make decisions when other people are

14:12

asleep , right yeah , but then you have to

14:14

answer to them afterwards as well . What

14:17

qualities do you believe define

14:19

a great leader and I'm not

14:22

going to restrict this to military , just generally

14:24

and how can professionals in

14:26

any industry cultivate

14:28

these traits ?

14:30

I think culture is really important and whatever

14:32

organization you're in , leaders

14:34

need to understand the culture of where you're working and

14:36

the context behind it . So culture and context really

14:38

important , and I'll come come back to that from

14:41

my perspective . And equally

14:43

, I think , the ability

14:45

to inspire those around

14:47

you and , again , to be able

14:49

to inspire people sometimes to do things

14:52

that they don't necessarily want to do

14:54

. And then the ability to set a vision for

14:57

a trajectory of where you're trying to get , to

14:59

make that digestible and

15:01

translate that to a mass so

15:04

everyone in the organisation understands what

15:06

direction you're going in . And then the final two bits

15:08

for me , I think it's got to be about trust

15:10

mutually . So mutual trust upwards and downwards

15:12

. And then , finally

15:15

, the biggest thing , and it's

15:17

the motto of the Royal Military Academy of

15:19

Sandhurst and it's serve to lead

15:21

and the whole point of this

15:23

for me and everyone

15:25

has a different feel and it's a really personal approach

15:27

to leadership , but for me , when

15:29

you are in a leadership position , you're in a position of privilege

15:32

and those who work with you

15:34

, for you , you've got a real

15:36

privilege to look after them . That motto

15:38

of serve to lead is really ingrained , I

15:40

think , on any British Army officer who's been for our

15:42

training establishment I think on any British army

15:44

officer who's been for our training establishment this real privilege of

15:46

being in a position to , as I say , serve

15:48

those who are beneath us , so that serve

15:50

to lead motto and then

15:53

our responsibility to them , as

15:55

well as actually getting the job done .

16:06

In my career . I have quite a few military friends and perhaps that's

16:08

not the reason why I'm going to say what I'm going to say , but I

16:10

employed quite a few ex-military . My logistics director for

16:13

the region was an ex-regimental

16:16

sergeant , major W01 , and

16:18

I have to say he was in work on the dot

16:21

at nine and left on the dot at five

16:23

. Everything was tickety-boo

16:25

, as they say , perfectly organized

16:27

, and I expected him to

16:29

come along and be a bit bossy

16:32

this is the military outsider's

16:34

view and he wasn't . He knew how

16:37

to encourage people

16:39

, how to develop people , how to get

16:41

them to do things that maybe were uncomfortable

16:44

. So what

16:46

would you say to anyone watching this who

16:48

were looking to be employing leaders

16:51

of the future ? And there

16:53

are people leaving armed

16:56

forces , having served a number of years

16:58

and still young but very

17:00

experienced , exposed so

17:02

much , as you said . You had , at

17:05

20 years of age , 30 people beneath

17:07

you . What advice would you give

17:09

? Employers who were looking at CVs

17:11

, came on your desk and they had ex-military

17:14

.

17:14

Sometimes I think the military

17:16

forget the unique leadership experiences

17:18

they have throughout their career , whether

17:21

soldiers or officers , and

17:23

we sometimes take for granted

17:25

the responsibilities we've been privileged to

17:28

have . And so , uh

17:30

, you know , speaking some of my friends who have left the military , uh

17:33

, there's a struggle for some of them to understand how to

17:35

translate those experiences into something that

17:37

business would understand . Okay

17:39

, um , but , as I've outlined , I think so

17:41

many things we do are directly translatable

17:44

to business and

17:47

, as I said , when I met some of the VPs

17:49

, chief operating officers , business

17:52

developers from some of the biggest

17:55

global companies when I was working with NUS

17:57

on that executive international management course , I

18:00

could definitely see there was value that

18:02

I could have to the conversations and

18:05

how that could translate to the business environment . So

18:08

I'd say to any business considering to employ

18:10

military people you know military

18:12

people are used to having

18:15

responsibility placed on them . They're

18:17

comfortable operating in complexity

18:19

and sometimes ambiguity

18:22

, where there isn't an easy answer , where

18:24

it's highly complicated , but that's

18:27

OK , because there's not always an easy answer . But

18:29

what military people generally happy to do

18:31

is own the problem , understand

18:33

the problem and then make difficult

18:36

decisions when they need to , when they assimilate

18:38

what the decisions are and the choices available

18:40

. So I definitely say

18:42

please consider employing military people . They're fantastic

18:44

. I'll

18:50

go back to the culture of organizations . So every organization will have different

18:52

cultures . For me , for the british army , uh , we , we have the values and standards

18:54

that we all learn when we first join and

18:57

they again become really personal to us . Uh

18:59

, they , they , they're ingrained , uh

19:02

, you know , and I I'll just share

19:04

what they are in terms of the terminology for

19:06

them . So the first one selfless

19:08

commitment , very much speech for itself , respect

19:11

for others , loyalty

19:14

, discipline , integrity

19:17

and courage . So

19:19

all of those are instilled on

19:21

people who join the military and

19:23

I think any of those , any business

19:25

, any organization , would

19:27

benefit from an individual who believes in those

19:30

, uh , those , those values . So

19:32

, uh , so I do . I do think there

19:34

is an offer , I do think

19:36

there's something that any military person , regardless

19:39

what their expertise and specialist

19:41

discipline is , that they can have to an organization

19:43

beyond just being an ex-service personnel

19:45

fabulous , I think that's a great advert

19:48

for the armed forces .

19:50

Now I'd like to segue a little bit across

19:53

into one thing you

19:55

have to have in the military , especially

19:58

in some of the operation environments you've

20:00

been in , is resilience . So

20:03

tell me how you built

20:06

your own resilience

20:08

and any advice you would give to

20:10

anyone who was looking to get

20:12

and let's just say , toughen up

20:14

a little bit then , because that's what resilience

20:17

is is having to face the tough

20:19

things and still do them right it

20:21

is but and the reason I say is

20:23

but but is when I joined the military

20:25

, you

20:28

know we went on a lot of operational tours .

20:30

The pace was very demanding . It still absolutely

20:33

is , and

20:35

some people kept that in . They

20:37

felt , well , I need to be tough , I need to

20:40

hold it all myself , show that I'm strong

20:42

and I'm mentally resilient , and

20:44

and actually what we've done more

20:47

recently is allow people

20:49

to show that it's okay to say

20:51

I'm tired , it's okay to ask for help , it's

20:53

okay that I am mentally fatigued

20:55

. And I'd say one of the biggest things

20:57

we've done over the last decade is

21:00

actually even at the very senior commander

21:02

level is people to feel comfortable

21:04

to talk at every level , and

21:08

I think talking about experiences is part

21:10

of resilience rather than holding

21:12

in bottling up Super important . But

21:15

equally , I think it's important for everyone

21:17

to know what their capacity is . Everyone has a

21:19

different capacity and for commanders

21:21

, they need to respect that . Again , those

21:23

under their command have different capacities , and

21:26

to watch that and protect that and

21:28

set a sustainable pace . Because

21:31

there are times in our careers where

21:33

we do need to work 24 hours a day and

21:36

the demands on us are to do so . So to

21:38

do that , we all need our personal reserve so

21:40

that when we go from 60%

21:42

, we can churn up to 90% or 100%

21:45

because we've got that reserve ready . If

21:48

we're always working at that flat rate , we

21:50

can't dial it up when we need to . And , as I

21:52

say , there's times when we need to . Now

21:54

, in units , that's done at the local management

21:56

level , where the platoon commanders , the troop

21:59

commanders , will look after them , and in the

22:01

regimental structures we've got formal

22:03

processes where people can look after each other

22:05

both up and down the chain of command . But

22:08

even in the staff environment there are ways you can do

22:10

this as well , and so one of my first

22:12

staff jobs I did so outside of normal

22:14

traditional regimental duties . I

22:16

remember the person who was my line manager

22:18

at the time saw me tapping away

22:21

on my computer quite late in the evening and asked

22:23

why I was still in the office and

22:25

I said there are emails I need to answer . My my inbox

22:27

is still full . And he said , okay

22:30

, you don't need to answer every email , you

22:32

don't need to have an empty inbox every day . And

22:35

actually the real skill is accepting

22:38

that and when you accept and again , this is where

22:40

it translates to the business environment when you accept

22:42

, you can't finish everything every day . What

22:45

you can do is triage and know what must be done now

22:47

, what can done tomorrow and

22:49

what can go to the bottom of this pile . Once

22:51

you've got that balance and you can understand that anything

22:53

is achievable and you can manage anything . And

22:56

then throughout my career since that moment and

22:59

the complexity has grown , the scale has grown in

23:01

terms of both command responsibilities , but then

23:03

also reporting responsibilities as well

23:06

, having that ability to triage

23:08

and then be really comfortable saying I

23:10

can wait to another day , that's okay and that gives

23:12

resilience in its own right . And equally

23:14

, some organizations within the military

23:16

and I've I've followed some as well um

23:19

, adopt uh more known business practices

23:21

. Uh , you know scrum agile methodologies

23:24

as well and I've been through

23:26

my scrum agile practitioners course

23:28

. I've implemented it in three

23:30

different organisations I've worked with , not

23:33

necessarily trying to

23:35

build the pace into an organisation . I

23:37

know sometimes that doesn't instil

23:39

, but that's definitely a by-product . But

23:42

for me it's actually setting an appropriate

23:44

sprint with an agreed

23:46

amount of outputs that you're going to do in that period

23:49

of time to protect the workforce

23:51

, to know it's okay that that's

23:53

us working at capacity and then , more

23:55

importantly , to encourage that culture

23:58

of if you're adding

24:00

extra work in that agreed work

24:02

package , something needs to stop

24:04

because we're at capacity and that's

24:06

okay . And then at the junior levels , if

24:09

I'm asking them to do something else , they be

24:11

really comfortable saying , okay , I can

24:13

do that , but that comes at cost to this

24:15

other work . Yeah , it's a priority

24:17

call and it may well be what

24:19

they're already doing is a high priority . So that goes

24:22

to the bottom of the pile if it's not

24:24

stop doing that so you can start something else

24:26

. And that ability at a

24:28

very junior level to say what

24:31

am I going to stop is so powerful . And

24:34

I saw this working in the Ministry of Defence , where

24:36

some of the departments started to implement some

24:39

of the agile ways of working , working

24:41

with Scrum methodologies

24:44

, and genuinely within a week

24:46

I was able to challenge some

24:48

of the very top leadership in our defence because

24:51

we had agreed package of what we were delivering

24:53

and new things were coming in and

24:56

I had that ability to say no

24:58

and when I said it once I

25:00

could say it again and it wasn't awkward

25:02

because we had a working agreement

25:04

together . Right , we had a way of working together

25:07

and it worked really well in

25:09

that business sense . Now the realities

25:11

are that is different than a battlefield position

25:14

. Yeah , of course , because in a battlefield there may be a time

25:16

where a commander needs to make a decision and

25:18

there isn't time to question , it's

25:21

just get on and do . But we're not always

25:23

in a battlefield scenario . So

25:32

I think organizations who have the ability to provide a reserve for their people so they're

25:34

not always working 100 but also provide different tools

25:37

to help manage workloads and

25:39

have that ability to say no or

25:41

the ability to prioritize or

25:43

build up to resilience and ways of making

25:46

an organization far more resilient , very

25:48

powerful message in and , as

25:50

you said , having the freedom and the ability

25:53

to do that .

25:54

And one thing I've been reading about in the last week

25:56

is how to say what's called a positive

25:58

no so it's a no but

26:01

how you deliver that no message

26:03

, especially if you're managing that upwards

26:05

. How do you

26:08

then make yourself more

26:10

agile ? We talk about tools , the

26:12

obvious one . I think that most people

26:14

know about the priority matrix . That

26:17

was my go-to when I got stuck

26:19

. I should have used it more frequently when I got

26:21

stuck with everything overwhelming

26:23

me . You called it a triage . I use a

26:25

priority matrix . I literally put them into

26:27

a box and one of the boxes could

26:29

be the bin . Literally

26:31

, there's a lot of things can go in the bin

26:33

. It's nice having your email box

26:36

full and look like you're busy . You're

26:38

a busy fool , right ? So

26:40

this agility you

26:42

you've had formal training in that but how do

26:44

you , on a day-to-day basis , ensure

26:47

that you , you stay agile in

26:50

your role ?

26:50

in your job . For any military practitioner

26:53

, especially from the British military , when

26:55

I say my response and then build

26:57

on that , they'll understand why

27:00

I introduce it and it's called a question for

27:02

moment Question . A question for moment . Okay

27:05

, when we go for our early training

27:07

and this is mainly

27:09

applicable to operational scenarios , but

27:12

I do equally think there is a business

27:14

application to it as well we go through the combat

27:16

estimate and it's a formal

27:19

process known as the seven questions , and

27:21

as part of the seven questions , it's about measuring

27:24

your capabilities , your enemy

27:26

or adversary's capabilities , understanding

27:29

the terrain , developing courses

27:31

of action that you present to your commander of

27:33

what you're going to do to be part of that plan

27:36

one up and two up and

27:38

then you weigh them all up and you say this is our recommended

27:41

course of action and then

27:43

your commander will give you guidance , because they've got the

27:45

wisdom , the insight and the higher picture to give you

27:47

a little bit more guidance . And then you deliver

27:49

that there is a question for moment

27:52

that can be implemented at any point

27:54

in time and it's has the situation

27:56

changed ? It's simple as that . Has the situation changed ? And

27:58

if the situation has changed , it's just been really

28:00

comfortable that the plan may need

28:02

to be totally changed and so there

28:05

could be something that's introduced that is very

28:07

different you weren't expecting and

28:09

it changes the plan . And uh , and

28:11

I must admit I I do enjoy sometimes

28:14

a question for a moment , because

28:16

it does allow that freedom and that agility

28:18

to reassess the situation

28:21

, understand relative

28:23

priorities , understand what is going on at that point

28:25

in time and then and then have

28:28

the agility with you and your team to

28:30

either adjust the plan or be really comfortable . Yet

28:32

question format but the plan still stands , let's

28:34

still deliver it , or let's

28:36

go back to the drawing board , let's reassess

28:39

, let's retackle and let's move on . And

28:41

I think that that that again back

28:43

in the sort of military decision making process , the

28:46

culture of being comfortable , that plans

28:48

do change and no plan survives contact with the enemy

28:50

anyway always , um

28:52

, yeah I , as I found out

28:55

?

28:55

absolutely yes , but some of the lessons you got

28:57

in there , I think I wish I knew them

28:59

years ago in my own leadership position

29:02

, particularly that , um

29:04

, welcoming the ambiguity and

29:06

welcoming the opportunity to revisit

29:08

and then having the flexibility

29:11

, the agility to adapt yourself

29:13

. Uh , I , I'll be honest

29:15

, I flew by the seat of my pants rather

29:17

too often because it wasn't such

29:19

a structured environment . That's

29:22

great . It gives you the freedom and the latitude , etc

29:24

. But I really like what you're saying

29:26

, that you've got that freedom and latitude , but

29:28

you've also got a support mechanism

29:31

around you , above you , below you . It's

29:33

a lot more structured . So if

29:35

I were to learn something running

29:37

a business today , I'd like to

29:39

get more structure around

29:42

that , but retaining the flexibility

29:44

and the agility that you spoke about , that's

29:47

amazing .

29:47

Please don't get me wrong . As I say

29:49

, leadership is a journey . It

29:51

started early in my career . It's still continuing

29:54

. We do make

29:56

mistakes , all of us . We're all human beings , definitely

29:59

anything but perfect and

30:01

sometimes strangely . I find commanding

30:04

large organizations , large formations I had

30:06

the privilege of commanding a regiment of over

30:08

1,000 people Phenomenal , a

30:16

real privilege highlighted my career so far , uh , but sometimes that

30:18

scale is easier than small teams , uh , small team politics , uh , and so yeah

30:20

, so the journey continues on . Politics is present in the military as

30:22

well .

30:23

Then my hardest , uh

30:25

, managerial role I ever

30:27

had was two people that

30:30

I had , two females reporting to

30:32

me . The politics between them

30:34

play up . The things I had to deal with

30:36

were extraneous to the work we undertook

30:39

, was the most difficult I

30:41

ever had and , as you said , as

30:43

the scale got bigger , perhaps

30:45

you're blind a little bit to

30:47

some of the things in . In all honesty , with a thousand

30:49

people you can't know everything going

30:51

on , but you do get that ability

30:53

to be like the eagle soaring

30:56

above it and seeing it wider

30:58

and understanding some things

31:00

are not so important . So a lot of the

31:02

things earlier in my career that I dealt with

31:04

I shouldn't have dealt with . I should have just let

31:07

them flow . I would have preferred to be like you , eddie

31:09

, where I had 30 have dealt with . I should have just let them flow . I would have preferred to be like you , eddie , where I

31:11

had 30 to start with . Two

31:13

was more difficult , frankly , from

31:15

my perspective anyway . Can you

31:17

talking of this agility and I want to continue

31:20

in this vein can you share an experience where

31:22

you had to pivot or

31:24

rethink an approach due to unforeseen

31:27

challenges ? You just described the

31:29

process you went through , but can you give an example

31:32

of when that has happened to you and you

31:34

had to make that pivot ?

31:35

I won't go into too much detail , but the experience

31:37

I'll give is actually when I was part of the Counter-Rice

31:40

Task Force . So I

31:42

was employed in the Middle East in

31:44

a US-led coalition . I

31:47

was the lead operational planner for

31:50

the post-liberation plan for Raqqa , which

31:52

is one of the biggest cities in northern Syria

31:54

. Just shy of a million people were

31:56

living in there at that point in time in 2016

31:58

when I was working there , and

32:00

now the population's risen back

32:02

up to just

32:05

over half a million at this point in time

32:07

. But in terms of that post-liberation

32:09

plan , clearly the military

32:11

had a role in that and I wasn't the lead planner for the liberation

32:14

plan , but a post-liberation

32:16

included a whole host of different

32:19

international partners aid

32:21

agencies , civil societies

32:24

. The military had a part to play and

32:27

I was working with some amazingly capable

32:30

people , uh , the majority of which

32:32

were very brave , um

32:34

, very focused , very passionate

32:36

and actually not military because it's post-liberation

32:39

plan . Okay , how do you bring , uh you

32:41

know the civil society back after you know

32:43

we've removed isis from uh , from raka ? The

32:45

really powerful thing was we formed

32:48

this international working group

32:50

interagency as well and

32:54

we had a vision of what it would look like , and

32:56

then things moved quick and we're expecting

32:59

things changed , things evolved

33:01

and suddenly the shape and the form of that ended

33:03

up very different from what we started . And

33:06

even though part of me , when I started it , because

33:08

I was intimately involved in what that

33:11

organisational structure looked like , it didn't

33:13

look like that anymore and

33:15

I remember my chief of staff at the time

33:18

he said to me you know , you started something , just be comfortable

33:20

with it evolving . And

33:22

it did . It evolved . It evolved into something very different

33:25

, but the output and the purpose of it

33:27

did exactly what it was supposed to do and

33:30

it was that ability of knowing actually when to step

33:32

back and just let this thing carry on

33:34

, because it had changed , it had pivoted and

33:37

as much as I wanted to continue to drive it

33:39

, my part in that role was done and

33:41

it was fantastic to see that play out .

33:43

As I'm listening , and I'm sure our listeners will

33:45

draw the same conclusion . We

33:48

are familiar with a lot of

33:50

your engagements around the world

33:53

because they made news , constantly

33:55

made news . Most of us in business

33:57

we just we go under

33:59

the radar , so to speak . Your journey

34:01

has been quite literally front

34:03

page stuff for over many years

34:06

. How does that feel that ? You're

34:08

you're , you're experiencing it

34:10

and then you're reading someone's

34:12

interpretation of what's going

34:15

on , because a journalist is an interpretation

34:17

of what they see . It's not just factual

34:20

. How do you marry

34:22

those two things up , you being in it and then reading

34:24

about it and you say that's not

34:26

how it was or that's a good representation

34:29

. How generally would you say ?

34:30

that Everyone gets media training in the military

34:32

, especially when we're going through our pre-deployment training

34:35

, and actually

34:37

not many of us do engage with

34:39

the media . Some people get the opportunities to do

34:41

so , but not everyone . And

34:44

whether it's military , whether it's defence

34:46

and security , whether it's business news , whoever

34:49

that news vendor is will

34:51

have a view . There'll be a slight bias and

34:53

it's just been really comfortable that you know they will

34:55

have a view . I do take an active interest

34:57

in the media . Clearly I do as a military

35:00

officer , but

35:02

for me it's just trying to be as broad as I can , listen

35:05

to differing media outlets , so I'm not biased

35:07

myself with my view and

35:11

so , yeah , I'm pretty comfortable with the

35:14

story that gets told sometimes will be the

35:16

stories I understand it . Sometimes

35:18

it won't be , um , but

35:20

that's okay and I'm I'm comfortable

35:22

with that because I know what my part in the role

35:24

is . I know what my part at my level , the

35:27

next level , the level up , is , and

35:29

you know very , very luckily , every operation I've been

35:31

on , I believed in a role , what we were doing , whether

35:34

it was combating , as I say , organisations

35:37

like ISIS , whether it was

35:39

stopping legal drugs trafficking

35:42

, weapons smuggling in the Balkans

35:44

that do go and , unfortunately , find

35:46

their way back to our home . So

35:48

yeah , so , as I say , I look at it through the lens

35:50

of what I believe in , and that's

35:53

definitely the way I play it

35:55

.

35:55

Not a doubt , you have to believe you're

35:57

in the good guy role in all honesty

35:59

, right ? It's as simple as that and we all want to do

36:02

the right thing and be in that role . The

36:04

way I get my news is it

36:07

may sound strange to you I will listen to

36:09

the same thing , or read the same thing from

36:12

Middle Eastern , from

36:15

American , from European . I'll try

36:17

it . So it'll be the BBC , it'll be

36:19

CNN and

36:21

it will be Al Jazeera . And

36:23

then from that I say what are they

36:25

all saying ? That's the facts , I

36:28

think , because three of them triangulated

36:31

. And then the rest , I know , is opinion , and

36:33

from that I form my own opinion . It

36:35

do you take that kind of ?

36:37

approach . I try and be broad as

36:39

I can , through both reading

36:41

, listening and also talking

36:43

and speaking as well to people to get other people's

36:46

views . Um , yeah , we

36:48

live in a world where information is

36:50

so readily available now , far more

36:52

than it was a few years ago , and

36:54

it's exponential in terms of the access people can

36:56

have . There is always a strategic

36:59

communications narrative that individuals

37:01

, organisations , nations try

37:04

to make , and so I

37:06

think , for all of us , trying to be as broad as we can be

37:08

so we can have a balanced opinion is

37:11

helpful , and so , as I say , I

37:13

try to be broad . I try to talk so we can have

37:15

a balanced opinion is helpful , and so , as I say , I try to be broad .

37:17

I try to talk to people , form my own opinions where I can , and what you were

37:19

saying earlier about how you need to adapt , to pivot etc . In

37:21

the last month and I'm not going to press you on

37:23

politics at all but everything

37:25

changed in America and

37:28

that is now playing out . That's

37:30

changing how Ukraine

37:32

is viewed . I won't press you on

37:34

that , obviously , but my point

37:36

is it changes and it changes

37:39

very rapidly and as well

37:41

as very rapidly quite can be quite

37:43

severe . The change literally a 180

37:45

degrees . I know not to press

37:47

you on that , but it's

37:50

a fascinating time to be alive Not

37:52

necessarily the best time , but fascinating

37:54

. How important is mindset

37:57

in achieving success

37:59

for you and what

38:01

are some practical ways people

38:03

can then strengthen their own

38:05

mindset ?

38:06

I go back to the point I made about resilience . I

38:10

think everyone has

38:12

a different level of capacity . Knowing

38:15

your own energy levels

38:17

, your own capacity , is important . Knowing

38:20

what you enjoy and having an outlet as

38:22

well is really important . I

38:24

was at a commissioning parade in December

38:27

last year and

38:29

I remember the

38:31

graduating sort of uh official

38:33

. Uh talks about uh

38:35

trying to keep a hobby . So

38:38

you have something that just is , is an escape

38:40

, something that you know keeps you grounded

38:42

, balanced , interesting . Um

38:45

, you know I , I know

38:47

many of my friends have probably argue , including

38:49

uh those closest to me , that uh , part

38:51

of my hobby is is my job , and

38:53

I wouldn't disagree . I do . I do generally love

38:56

the job , love the opportunities it's such an interesting

38:58

job .

38:58

What's there ?

38:58

not to love . Yeah , and growing up as

39:01

an east londoner , where I didn't even realize

39:03

I could join as an officer

39:05

and someone just saw something

39:08

, an opportunity , and I've

39:10

had this amazingly privileged uh you

39:12

know pathway so far . I've

39:14

worked hard for it , as I say it's , it's definitely

39:16

a part of me , uh , but

39:18

, but equally , I do also like watching

39:21

the odd movie , and often that's

39:23

one of the only times I can stop , relax

39:25

, slow down and get my mind space

39:28

back so that I can actually take my head out of

39:30

work . Uh , because I

39:32

I do enjoy my job , um

39:35

, but I think everyone is different , but

39:37

I think it's important to set realistic goals

39:39

, set realistic boundaries , make

39:41

sure that you do give yourself that time to

39:43

grow your own resilience , which will help set the

39:45

right mind space for whatever it is that you're

39:47

trying to achieve , um , and

39:49

that's why friends , family and

39:52

outlet hobby is so important for all

39:54

of the above .

39:55

That's fascinating to hear that insight

39:57

from military guy that

40:00

you're not a machine

40:02

. None of us are a machine , and

40:04

we have a mutual friend

40:06

who's in the parachute regiment and

40:08

a big part of what he's doing

40:10

now is ensuring that

40:12

the soldiers in there have

40:15

this outlet

40:17

, a place to go that

40:20

they listen to . Mental health

40:22

has become a major concentration

40:24

for the military . Now they're

40:26

not expected to just push

40:29

and push until they break . And the

40:31

thing I'm taking away from what you said knowing

40:33

where your capacity is , so that in

40:36

normal times you're operating

40:38

at that 50 to 60% and you're still

40:40

being very effective , very efficient

40:42

, but having that reserve left

40:44

to dial it up , as you

40:46

put it , no matter what you do , you can't

40:49

do it at 90% all the time . No

40:51

one can . It's physically impossible . If

40:53

you're in a theatre of war , yeah

40:55

, okay , you don't have a choice . But

40:58

even watching the news as an outsider

41:00

, I read about people

41:02

. They're cycling their people out . So if they're

41:04

in the front line , they're not in the front line permanently

41:07

, they know they can't . They cycle them out

41:09

, so

41:13

they're coming out , they have some r&r and they get back . If you

41:15

don't do that , you'll snap , and but fortunately in the military

41:17

, the snapping is much

41:20

more serious than in a

41:22

business environment . But having said

41:24

that , this mental

41:27

side , I think , is

41:29

the same , regardless of your role

41:31

and knowing your limitations

41:33

, knowing when to speak , knowing

41:36

you can speak up and not

41:38

just . I wasn't being rude

41:41

earlier when I said about this toughness inside

41:43

the humans . Everyone

41:46

, we're all humans and we all have different

41:49

capacities . But do we know

41:52

our capacities is the other thing . How

41:54

do you personally know your

41:56

capacity when you're operating at too

41:59

high a capacity , when you have to dial back

42:01

? How do you recognize that ? How do you spot

42:04

that in yourself ?

42:05

I've been in environments

42:08

where I have to work , um , pretty

42:10

much seven days a week over a prolonged period of time

42:13

, and I've

42:15

been environments where I don't have

42:17

a regular

42:19

sleep pattern as well . As a result of that

42:22

, and

42:24

I do start to recognize in myself , when I start

42:26

to get tired , I get a bit grumpy

42:28

, which is not me . I'm

42:30

enthusiastic , I'm always the opportunist

42:33

uh , never , never a Debbie Downer

42:35

. And so when I start to see that changing

42:38

, that's when I catch myself , because

42:40

there's a really dangerous pathway when you go from

42:42

just being tired to fatigued and

42:45

this is just my view of this and

42:47

when someone goes into that space where it's fatigued

42:50

, the ability to recover and

42:52

bounce back when you are genuinely

42:54

fatigued and that could be mentally

42:56

as well as physically fatigued takes

42:59

a lot longer . Is our responsibility

43:01

be an active bystander . You know , help see friends

43:03

, colleagues , um , you know , help them

43:15

realize they are equally tired and

43:17

uh , and , as I say , catch ourselves and

43:19

our friends to make sure they don't go into that fatigue

43:22

state , um , because

43:24

the recovery of that takes longer , um

43:26

, some people . It then becomes a

43:28

quicker sort of return to

43:31

, if you've achieved that fatigue state

43:33

, to get back there again . So , uh

43:35

, so yeah , so it's recognizing your individual

43:37

limitations , uh , and

43:39

, and I I know I'm an energizer

43:42

, so I know I can work , uh

43:44

, at quite a busy pace , um

43:47

, but equally , I know I don't need to sustain that

43:49

and neither should you know

43:51

your own mental state and physical

43:53

state .

43:54

I notice when I am exercising

43:56

and I wear a watch that tells me after

43:59

my recovery time and I

44:01

usually poo-poo that , but

44:03

it's pretty accurate If

44:05

it says recovery time after this hike

44:08

and climb that you've done is 48

44:10

hours . I think that's ridiculous . But

44:12

if I try to do the hike the next day , I'm

44:15

not tired , I'm fatigued , I'm beyond

44:17

that limit and then I can't

44:19

do it for a couple of weeks . So if I don't

44:22

listen to that and take that proper

44:24

rest time , then it's harder and

44:26

harder to come back . But

44:29

it's fascinating for me , at least

44:31

today , and I'm sure for the viewers , to

44:33

see how far advanced

44:36

the military is in understanding

44:38

the human psychology of

44:40

the people they're working with . It

44:42

sounds very advanced , more

44:45

advanced than I . Maybe I'm just ignorant , but

44:47

it's great . I'm really happy

44:49

to hear that things

44:52

like mental health are getting that attention

44:54

, then from the higher ups

44:56

, definitely so .

44:57

I've been in the military now for 26 years and

45:00

in my tenure there's definitely been

45:02

an awakening of the importance of mental

45:05

health , mental resilience , but , as I

45:07

said , it's that ability to talk about

45:09

it and a lot of that has been

45:11

through examples from our very top leadership

45:13

positions , um and

45:15

they have openly said even those at the

45:17

four star general level . I've

45:20

seen some of our commanders talk about

45:22

their problems , talk about their challenges , spoke

45:24

about their own demons publicly um

45:27

and say it's okay to talk about this . People

45:29

have gone through these and , as I said

45:31

, I think , I think it's a really nice way for

45:33

people to see if my leader

45:35

can say that , if that commander can say that it's

45:38

okay for me to actually say , yeah

45:40

, I'm struggling at the moment and

45:43

I think that's important . And then we

45:45

did a study some years

45:47

ago , actually called TRIM Trauma Incident

45:49

Management , and the idea

45:51

of this was more battlefield context , but it is

45:53

. If you're exposed to something that that

45:56

potentially , is going to repeat back

45:58

post-traumatic stress , for example

46:00

the best thing to do is to

46:03

speak about it with your friends , your colleagues who

46:05

may have been experiencing a similar thing , to

46:07

share again , rather than bottle up . I mean , as

46:09

I say I , I do think in in

46:12

the more recent years , it's just been more

46:14

and more okay to talk about mental

46:16

well-being , mental fatigue as well

46:18

as physical , because you can see physical .

46:20

You can see if someone's tired , um , but

46:22

it's it's harder to spot it if it's mental

46:24

fatigue how do you , in your current

46:27

role , um model

46:29

, through your leadership , what

46:31

you just described from four star general

46:33

? How do you do you consciously think

46:35

about modeling that for the

46:38

staff who work with you ?

46:39

I do try to . I'm sure if any of them were

46:41

here today , they they would equally say I do

46:43

work hard and I do as I say . I'm really passionate about

46:45

what I do . But what I do encourage

46:48

is being really comfortable with when there

46:50

are windows of of taking

46:52

a downtime and dialing it down . Do

46:55

that and be really comfortable with that . Again

46:57

, to get back to that resilience of you

46:59

know we need a reserve , we need to be refreshed

47:02

so that when we do need to turn up and really

47:04

building that pace , we've got that ready . So

47:07

, yeah , we're quite lucky in Singapore

47:09

because there are so many event

47:12

celebrations where it does force

47:14

the time to slow down a bit . We've recently been

47:16

through the amazing experience of Chinese New Year

47:18

, so a lot of us took that as an opportunity

47:21

even though it was only three weeks into the

47:23

new year , we had a really busy start

47:25

to just dial it down a bit , and that's OK and

47:28

just be comfortable . It's OK to do that .

47:30

So I'm not sure what's coming up next on

47:32

our calendar . How long have you been in Singapore

47:35

so far and enrolled , so I've been in position for 18

47:37

months .

47:38

So my first year in role was

47:40

just as the head of the British Defence Staff for Southeast

47:43

Asia , so focusing on that regional

47:45

support position . And

47:47

then I was really lucky last year that

47:50

we readjusted our defence footprint in Singapore

47:52

. That allowed me to then

47:54

effectively take on the defence advisor

47:56

function as well , which

47:58

gave me two deputies

48:00

one focusing on our bilateral relationship

48:03

with Singapore , which is progressing really

48:05

, really well . Then I've got regional deputy

48:07

as well , focused

48:09

on our relationship with ASEAN across

48:12

the wider , wider community , but

48:15

also contributing to the five-pound defense arrangements

48:17

as well . I have other

48:19

elements at work to me in

48:21

different capacities . But , yeah

48:24

, there was a big change last summer and

48:26

, and I said , living in Singapore

48:28

and then having that freedom to actually develop

48:30

and and nurture that relationship both ways

48:32

has been fantastic , and the highlight

48:34

for me definitely was having the opportunity to take

48:36

the Minister for Defence for

48:39

Singapore , so Dr Ng , back to

48:41

the UK last October and

48:44

to visit our Ministry of Defence and our Secretary of State

48:46

for Defence as well .

48:47

Awesome . I also saw a few months ago . I

48:50

saw photos of you popping up on LinkedIn

48:53

greeting

48:55

people and taking them on board a ship . There

48:57

was a British ship here . Tell

49:00

us about that . What was that and how does

49:02

that work ? How do you utilise

49:04

a ship stopping in ? But lots of activity

49:06

happens around that . You

49:09

were involved a lot . I saw that , so tell

49:11

me how that worked and why it was here

49:13

yeah .

49:14

So we talked about our commitment to this region

49:16

and we increased

49:18

the uk defense footprint slightly

49:20

. We didn't say we were

49:22

going to send mass . We said we're going to do these

49:25

components part of a wider cross-governmental

49:28

support to the indo-pific

49:30

region From a defence lens

49:33

. That looked like in addition to the

49:35

defence advisors defence attaches

49:37

we had in Southeast Asia and across the

49:40

wider Asia Pacific . We

49:42

got permanent DA in Manila following

49:44

that , so we've got a defence section based

49:46

in the Philippines . Now we

49:49

increased our non-resident DA footprint

49:51

so we've got a defence attaché , non-resident

49:54

supporting Cambodia as well , and

49:56

I had the privilege of holding that post for a little

49:58

bit of time . But

50:01

then we also , in addition to the thousand soldiers

50:03

we've got operating from the British Forces , brunei

50:06

, we made

50:08

a commitment to have two offshore patrol vessels

50:10

come to the region and so we've

50:12

got HMS Spey and HMS Tamar

50:15

who are now forward

50:17

and it's the first maritime persistence presence we've

50:20

had in this region for 25 years . Okay

50:22

, I knew it was special . And so

50:24

they've now , back in the last year , reached their

50:26

third anniversary of being in this region . They

50:29

regularly will come and visit Singaporeapore , but

50:31

they'll visit all southeast asian

50:33

nations , uh , in addition to

50:35

uh , to a lot of the wider asia pacific

50:37

countries as well . But sometimes

50:39

we'll augment that with bigger capability

50:42

. So last summer we had a really busy year . So

50:45

not only did we have more um ships

50:47

, we had aircraft as well . So

50:50

we , uh we conducted a joint air trial

50:52

with air trail with france . So

50:54

so we called this excise

50:57

excise griffin strike , which

50:59

was part of the combined joint expeditionary

51:01

force . So a uk and a french initiative

51:04

, and to celebrate 120

51:06

years of the entente cordonnel , we

51:09

did this joint air trial , excise griffin strike

51:11

, which effectively was the most ambitious air

51:13

power projection from europe to

51:15

this region to date . So we flew

51:17

from leon to singapore in

51:20

one bound doing air-to-air refueling

51:22

of our fast aircraft and

51:24

then from singapore to australia to participate

51:27

in another exercise , known as exercise pitch

51:29

black , with the australians . That was

51:31

when I first took on this defensive

51:33

visor role to Singapore . So I had a really good opportunity

51:36

early to build

51:38

work with not just France , obviously , as a European

51:40

partner , but Singapore as well

51:42

, as we then all went on on a

51:44

journey to then participate in exercise pitch

51:46

black . But then shortly after that

51:49

, we had our littoral response group visit

51:51

as well , which was a

51:53

far more muscular maritime presence of

51:55

two large Royal Fleet auxiliary

51:58

vessels within Bartwell

52:00

Marines in Bart's helicopters

52:02

. Australia conducted

52:06

an exercise known

52:08

as Predators Run , which

52:10

was a litoral exercise

52:13

involving fictitious

52:15

but simulated night raids

52:17

on the beach from the Royal Marines oh my goodness

52:19

. And then , once they conducted

52:22

that exercise , that interoperability training

52:24

with our partners , they then came back

52:26

to Singapore and Brunei before

52:30

then continuing their journey elsewhere . This year

52:32

, though , it goes bigger . So

52:34

this year we are super excited to

52:36

be hosting the Carrier Strike Group

52:38

, so CSG

52:40

25 , as it's referred to , so

52:43

the Carrier Strike Group is coming back to this region

52:45

. Our Prime Minister met with

52:47

Prime Minister Wong and announced

52:49

and it was the first formal announcement that he's going to stop

52:51

in Singapore as well this summer . I

52:53

can't , for security reasons , give the exact

52:55

date , time and location of that , but

52:58

it's coming to Singapore .

52:59

Let me suggest we have a

53:01

follow-up interview after

53:03

that has all happened . Today

53:05

has been fascinating the insight

53:08

that you've given . I'm just thinking

53:10

a lot of people will feel , like myself , a bit envious

53:12

of your role , uh

53:14

, your career , but the lessons that can

53:16

be learned between military and business

53:18

both ways is unbelievable

53:21

. I just wanted to thank you , eddie

53:23

, for coming today . I could call you eddie

53:25

, right yeah colonel eddie maskell

53:27

pedersen . Thank you for your time

53:30

. Thank you for sharing so much

53:32

of your insight , appreciate it . It's been delightful , really

53:34

enjoyed it and thank , thank you for your time .

53:34

Thank you for sharing so much of your insight . Appreciate it . It's been delightful , really enjoyed it and thank you very much

53:36

for your time as well . Thank you .

53:39

Thanks . Thanks for listening to the Power Within

53:41

. I hope today's episode inspired

53:44

you to grow , lead and create

53:46

the success you deserve . If

53:48

you enjoyed the podcast , share it

53:50

with someone who might find it valuable , and

53:53

don't forget to subscribe and leave a

53:55

review . Join us next time as

53:57

we explore more stories of leadership

53:59

and personal growth , and

54:02

remember that setbacks are just

54:04

stepping stones to something greater

54:06

. Until then , stay strong

54:08

, stay positive and keep believing

54:10

in the power within .