0:00

So , as a coach , our job is

0:02

really to help them realise that what

0:04

they think are truths are

0:06

just beliefs , and then reframe

0:09

those limiting beliefs

0:11

to create new , empowering

0:13

beliefs that can help them .

0:16

Welcome to the Power Within the

0:18

podcast , where we explore leadership , personal

0:21

growth and the dynamics that shape success

0:23

. I'm

0:30

Keith Power , and each week , I

0:32

sit down with inspiring individuals

0:34

who share insights on leading with

0:36

impact , building resilience and

0:39

unlocking potential . Through

0:42

their experiences , we'll uncover

0:44

the mindset and strategies that

0:46

drive meaningful growth . Whether

0:48

you're looking to evolve as a leader or

0:51

gain new perspectives , this podcast

0:53

is here to guide you . Today

0:56

, I'm joined by Geraldine Gauthier

0:58

, master , certified Coach and

1:00

founder of GoMaster Coaching , as

1:03

we explore more stories of resilience

1:05

, growth and the power of determination

1:07

. From financial

1:10

services to coaching global leaders

1:12

, geraldine helps others

1:15

lead with confidence and navigate

1:17

change . We'll explore

1:19

her philosophy on transformational coaching

1:22

, how it empowers individuals

1:24

and the strategies you

1:26

can use to develop as a leader

1:28

. Good morning , we know each other quite

1:30

well already and I've

1:32

given a little bit of an intro , but

1:35

can you tell us a little bit about yourself

1:37

, gomaster Coaching and

1:39

your background ?

1:41

Thank you ,

1:43

Keith , for having me . It's

1:46

a pleasure being here . So , yes

1:48

, I'm a master certified coach

1:50

. I founded Go Master Coach

1:54

. I'm based in Singapore , here with

1:56

my three kids and

1:58

my husband . I landed in Singapore

2:01

11 years ago . I used to work

2:03

for a financial broker . When

2:06

I landed in Singapore , I

2:08

was a bit lost . I was

2:10

not feeling

2:12

so fulfilled in my

2:15

role in this company and I

2:17

started to ask myself

2:19

what can I do more ? Where

2:21

can I , you know , thrive ? And

2:24

I decided to do two things

2:26

I decided to hire

2:28

a career coach and I

2:31

decided to challenge myself

2:33

physically and to register

2:35

for a triathlon . So

2:37

basically , I worked on myself mentally

2:41

and physically , and

2:43

this is how everything started for me

2:45

. And during the triathlon

2:48

I had this haha moment where

2:50

I realized that this is

2:52

where my sweet spot was . I wanted

2:55

to help people be mentally

2:58

, emotionally and physically

3:00

aligned . I decided

3:02

after this

3:04

triathlon to become a

3:07

professional coach and a

3:09

personal trainer , to combine

3:11

both to help people . So

3:14

that's how I became a coach in the first place

3:16

. And then I saw the impact

3:18

of coaching on people and

3:20

I was really amazed

3:23

by how it could change , transform

3:25

their life and I decided I wanted

3:27

to have more impact , so I created

3:29

Go Master Coach , a school to

3:32

train people to become certified coaches

3:34

so that they can help others , and

3:37

I decided also to create a

3:39

digital toolbox to equip

3:42

those coaches with better

3:45

tools and and

3:47

and . Lately we develop also an ai to

3:50

train coaches faster and to help

3:52

their clients better . So

3:55

, yeah , that's my journey

3:57

from financial services

4:00

to becoming a coach and running

4:02

go master Coach in Singapore

4:04

, in the US and in France .

4:06

And recently adopting two kittens

4:09

too . Oh yeah exactly . So

4:11

you're very settled in Singapore .

4:13

Exactly One husband , two cats

4:16

and three kids , in no particular

4:18

order .

4:19

I probably need to tell the viewers here

4:21

that you trained me . So

4:24

in my 60s I

4:26

went back to school and

4:28

it was nowhere near as scary as

4:30

I remember school . It was a very

4:33

positive , invigorating

4:35

and enlightening experience

4:37

. I'll be honest , I came along

4:40

thinking I just need to get certified , but

4:42

what I learned quite quickly is

4:45

how little I knew

4:47

truly about coaching . Experience

4:49

of 30 plus years didn't

4:52

count for much if I wasn't able to convey

4:54

that . So thank you here

4:56

for helping me on my own journey

4:58

. The other thing that I remember

5:01

only too well I was the

5:04

only man in the group , and

5:07

how challenging is the gender

5:09

split for you in

5:12

the groups of people that you coach or

5:14

individuals that you coach , do you

5:16

approach things differently ?

5:18

I think whoever male

5:20

, female , whatever their nationality

5:22

we have people from all over the world

5:24

as well I always try

5:27

to be as curious as possible

5:29

, to avoid any biases

5:31

to

5:33

impact the

5:35

way I train , the way I coach , the

5:38

way I connect with people . So I

5:40

try to really be more curious

5:42

, but of course there are differences

5:44

. I've seen some differences . I

5:46

think I don't want to be cliche

5:49

, but males , they might

5:51

take more time to open up . Females

5:54

, they might open up very , very quickly

5:56

. So I think you just

5:59

connect differently and just take the time

6:01

and be curious and give them the space

6:03

for them to open

6:05

up and be vulnerable . I think

6:07

you were extremely open and vulnerable

6:10

and it was appreciated

6:12

by many .

6:14

Curiosity undoubtedly is the greatest

6:16

tool we have as

6:19

human beings , but as a coach

6:21

it's particularly useful . I'd

6:23

like to explore a little bit of what you said there

6:25

about bias . It's a

6:28

word that can have negative connotations

6:30

. I don't want to put words in your mouth

6:32

, but we all have biases . How

6:35

do you see that holding

6:39

people back from achieving their full

6:41

potential ?

6:42

That's exactly . We have biases

6:44

on ourselves , on

6:47

others and on the way we

6:49

see the world right . So I think

6:51

the biggest limitations

6:53

anyone has is their own biases

6:56

or I would just maybe not use bias

6:58

, but limiting beliefs they

7:01

have on themselves . Right , it's the way

7:03

they see themselves . It's very

7:05

often biased . It's very difficult to be objective

7:08

. So I think this is what holds

7:10

people back . It's about the beliefs they

7:13

have about themselves and

7:15

very often and this is exactly

7:17

what bias is often they think

7:19

that those limiting beliefs are

7:22

truth Say I'm

7:24

not enough , I'm not smart enough

7:26

, I'm not confident enough

7:28

, I'm not , you know , skilled

7:31

enough . They all have a lot of beliefs

7:33

about themselves and that's the

7:35

biggest block , that's the

7:38

biggest mindset block

7:40

they have that limit themselves . So

7:42

, yeah , I think what really

7:45

holds people back it's not so

7:47

much about who they think they

7:49

are . It's more about who they think

7:51

they are not and all those

7:53

limiting beliefs they have about

7:55

what they cannot do . As

7:58

a coach , our job is really to

8:00

help them realize that what they

8:02

think are truths are just

8:04

beliefs and then

8:06

reframe those limiting

8:09

beliefs to create new , empowering

8:11

beliefs that can help them so

8:14

you said about your aha moment and

8:16

your triathlon before

8:18

that , what do you think was holding

8:21

you back ?

8:22

Yes , limiting belief absolutely

8:24

yes , and what was that in your case ?

8:26

Yes , in my case . So I was working

8:28

in the finance industry . One of

8:30

my limiting belief that was that

8:32

I can only do what I know . I'm

8:35

not confident enough to become an

8:37

entrepreneur or to work to find

8:39

my own clients . I don't have

8:41

the skill to convince . I'm

8:44

not good enough to be

8:46

hired as a coach

8:48

. So so

8:50

many limiting beliefs but , at the

8:52

end of the day , it's like I'm not good enough

8:54

to to do to

8:57

earn money by myself and

8:59

to become a great coach .

9:00

So, how do you think if you were to

9:03

give advice , general

9:05

advice , to those viewing this , how

9:07

could they identify those

9:10

beliefs that they have which are

9:12

limiting , and what

9:14

would you give them as steps

9:16

to take to try to overcome that

9:18

and to replace

9:20

those limiting beliefs with , as you

9:22

say , a more empowering belief ?

9:24

In a practical way . So what I would

9:26

do , I would ask you , for

9:28

instance , Keith , to write

9:30

your dream life If you had no constraints

9:33

at all money , time constraints

9:35

. So just write your dream life , so

9:37

anyone listening , just write your dream life

9:39

, just pose and write it down . And

9:42

then I would ask you what

9:44

prevents you from living this

9:46

dream life ? So just reflect

9:48

on this second question . Often

9:51

people will say oh , they will

9:53

find excuses of course external

9:56

obstacles oh , you know

9:58

, I have three kids . Of course

10:00

I need to uh , uh , financially

10:02

, it takes a lot of money to

10:04

raise kids , you know fine . So

10:06

that's the first thing . They will find external

10:09

excuses . And then they will think

10:11

about it and just realise , actually , the

10:13

only thing that prevented

10:15

me from living my dream life is

10:18

just , I'm afraid , it's

10:21

fear , that's it . So first

10:23

, write down your dream life . It's

10:29

fear , that's it . So first , write down your dream life . Second

10:31

, identify , uh , the obstacles , what really prevents you from doing that ? And third

10:33

, try to connect with the childhood

10:35

stories . You tell yourself

10:38

what is it that , this little voice

10:40

in your head that is telling you you cannot do

10:42

it , geraldine or kiss , you're

10:45

not good enough , you're not smart enough

10:47

, people will not hire you as

10:49

a coach , as whatever you want to become

10:51

. So you do these three and

10:53

then you have identified this limiting

10:55

belief , so that it's

10:58

one of the stories you've written down . I don't know

11:00

if I'm clear enough , but one of the stories and then

11:02

you say , okay , there's this story , I'm not good enough . And

11:04

then you say , ok , there's this story , I'm not good enough . What's

11:06

going to happen in one

11:08

week if you still have disbelief ? Ok

11:11

, I will still be in this financial

11:13

, financial role doing that . That's

11:15

OK . Not too bad . I'm , I would

11:18

. I will be frustrated , but that's

11:20

OK . What's going to happen if

11:22

you don't change in six months

11:24

?

11:24

But that's OK , what's going to happen if you

11:26

?

11:26

don't change in six months . Oh , that's going to be annoying . In six months I will

11:29

be stuck in this role . How about two years

11:31

? And like it starts to be really

11:33

annoying and like , wow , I

11:35

don't want to be there in two years , in

11:37

five years , in 10 years . And

11:46

then you realize , ok , that's very painful , I don't

11:48

want to be there in five years . So I need to change now . I need to . So you create

11:50

a sense of urgency to act on this

11:52

limiting belief and you find

11:54

enough motivation

11:57

to reframe it and say , just , it's

11:59

just a belief , it's just a story I've developed

12:01

, I've created for myself . So

12:04

you decide to change your narrative

12:06

. I've always seen you as being

12:08

very confident , very capable

12:10

, but as we got to know each

12:12

other , you allowed yourself to be

12:14

vulnerable and share . But I'd

12:17

just like to share a quick story

12:19

. When we had a conversation on

12:21

the phone last week , One of the things you

12:23

said was you were concerned

12:25

about coming today

12:27

your accent , your French accent

12:29

, and what I said to you was

12:32

, if you change your accent to

12:34

be neutral , you wouldn't be Geraldine

12:36

, you wouldn't be the person I know

12:38

, and what you said back to me

12:40

really struck . Then you said yeah

12:42

, thank you for reframing

12:45

that for me , and this

12:47

reframing is a very powerful

12:50

tool that just looking

12:52

from a different perspective and reframing

12:54

things improves how

12:57

you're going to approach it very quickly

12:59

, very immediately , and

13:01

I hope that you're not doing anything about

13:03

making your accent more neutral now .

13:05

Yeah , but thank you and it really

13:07

helped . I was like , oh yeah , thank you , but

13:10

because it has been one of my limiting

13:12

beliefs that I'm French , how

13:15

can I teach or train

13:17

people like you , right , that are natives

13:19

English ?

13:21

I'm Welsh , yeah , just be clear here

13:23

to our audience . But you

13:25

know .

13:26

So I had to overcome this belief

13:28

and

13:30

thank you again . Like here , I feel , like you

13:33

know , almost as an imposter . How

13:35

can I , you know , convey

13:37

strong ideas with this accent

13:40

? And being French , and

13:42

thank you for sharing that , it

13:45

was good to have an accent as well

13:47

.

13:48

Most native English speakers that

13:50

I've ever spoken with , whether they're from

13:52

America , canada , australia

13:54

, uk . Everyone

13:57

admires and

13:59

appreciates a French accent , believe

14:01

it or not . Probably improper

14:03

to say these days , but it sounds

14:06

very sexy as an accent , whether

14:08

it's a man or a woman . It really

14:10

sounds romantic , flowing

14:13

. So I'm glad I

14:15

helped you to reframe . It's probably the first

14:17

time I've given you something back and coached you

14:19

in return .

14:20

No , it's not the first time . Thank you very much

14:22

, and I think it's important to keep . It's a

14:24

very good example of reframing and

14:27

how it can just instantly

14:30

boost your confidence and say All right

14:32

, let's do it , and if it's good

14:34

, you could have three hours

14:36

just talking about motivation .

14:38

I'm a firm believer that you

14:40

just do it , literally you

14:43

. If you've decided that

14:45

you want to change , do

14:47

something , whatever it is , make

14:50

a move , make a decision , do something

14:52

. Now that sounds simplistic

14:54

but so many people get stuck

14:57

literally stuck , and thinking

14:59

all of these things I need to change

15:01

. So where do I start ? Would you give

15:03

any advice on

15:05

prioritizing where you

15:07

might start ? Once you've started to

15:10

take stock , stand

15:12

still and say , hey , I need to change . What

15:14

advice would you give generally ?

15:17

So what I would do ? I would never

15:19

, ever , try to persuade

15:21

someone to change . What

15:23

I would do , I would coach

15:25

them to persuade themselves

15:28

to change . And

15:30

how would I coach them ? I would use

15:32

one of my favorite

15:34

formulas a change equation

15:37

. If you want to overcome resistance

15:40

to change as an individual or as

15:42

an organization , you need

15:44

to focus on three components First

15:46

, dissatisfaction To change components First

15:49

, dissatisfaction To

15:51

change , you need to be dissatisfied

15:54

enough , otherwise why

16:01

would I change ? And it's about motivation . So you need to help your client

16:04

, or anyone that you want to help change

16:06

, understand how dissatisfied they

16:08

are . And sometimes they don't even realize it

16:10

. I don't really like my job , but

16:12

it's okay . So you need to help them

16:14

understand how , if it's really dissatisfying

16:17

, how dissatisfying it is . So you work

16:19

on that . First , you focus on the

16:21

pain and you amplify the

16:23

pain . You create a sense of urgency

16:25

, as we mentioned before . So that's the first

16:27

. Second is the vision . If you don't

16:29

have a dream , how can you , you know , realize your dream ? If you don't have a dream , how can

16:31

you , you know , realize your dream ? So you need to create

16:33

a strong , compelling vision for

16:36

yourself or for the people you want to inspire

16:40

to change . So it's really about

16:42

helping them get clarity on

16:44

what they want , where they want to

16:46

go and what's really

16:48

exciting . So it's really about the

16:51

gain . You play with the pain

16:53

. You play with the gain . You

16:57

amplify the desire to change

16:59

. With a very compelling vision

17:01

, you can help your client visualize

17:03

themselves in this desired

17:05

future . What

17:09

is it that I really want ? How do I

17:11

want to feel ? How

17:14

do I want to behave ? What's going to happen if I behave this

17:16

way ? So you work a lot on that . And the

17:19

third component is

17:21

very important . It's the first steps . Okay

17:24

, because people there are so many

17:26

people who are very dissatisfied

17:28

and have a clear vision , but they are paralyzed

17:31

. Yes , right it's perfectionist

17:33

, Many eye achievers

17:35

. They are very intellectual

17:37

, they have very clear vision and dissatisfaction

17:39

, but they are not doing anything

17:42

. So it's really about the first step that

17:44

will change and create this momentum . So

17:47

it's really about working , coaching

17:49

them on the D , the dissatisfaction

17:51

, coaching them on clarity

17:53

of the vision and helping

17:56

them just act on it I

17:58

probably came more from the school of jumping

18:00

into the action a bit too quickly , which

18:03

led to most of the troubles in my life

18:05

.

18:05

I think what you've described there , though , does

18:08

create some tension

18:11

and a little difficulty

18:14

, and I'm not going to pretend to people that

18:16

any change is easy . It

18:19

it has to have an element

18:21

of pain to it . Even if

18:23

the pain is just accepting

18:25

, you need to change . That's the start

18:27

point of the pain . Whether it's therapy

18:30

, coaching , any of these activities

18:33

you take to improve yourself , you go through

18:35

a little bit of pain . Is it worth it if

18:38

you are , let's say

18:40

, engaging with someone for a six-month

18:43

executive coaching and

18:45

they have to commit to , maybe

18:47

every two weeks , speaking with you for an

18:49

hour doing some homework

18:52

? The pain of

18:54

that journey is

18:56

the payoff worth it , do you think , geraldine ?

19:05

Absolutely . The return on investment in terms of time , money

19:07

, whatever , is huge . The transformation you can get out

19:09

of coaching is really immense . So

19:12

oh yeah , absolutely . So

19:14

, we all have this bias

19:16

. We try to avoid pain much more

19:19

than we try to get results pleasure

19:22

so you also have to help

19:24

your clients understand that , and it's also

19:27

about reframing it . I would say there's

19:29

nothing exciting in your

19:31

comfort zone , so you have to stretch

19:34

and to step outside of your comfort

19:36

zone . So it's it's scary

19:38

, but it's where the fun is right

19:40

oh for sure .

19:42

I got stuck in the comfort zone for a while

19:44

and I probably need to speak with

19:46

you offline . I've found every

19:48

excuse under the sun not to do anything

19:50

about the 10 kilos of weight overweight

19:52

that I'm carrying now , but that's another story

19:55

. But the payoff

19:57

has to be much more

19:59

than the pain . The two types

20:01

of people those when you have a

20:04

sticking plaster , do you rip it

20:06

off or do you slowly peel

20:08

it away ? What

20:10

type of person are you ? Are you a rip the plaster off type

20:12

of person or slowly ease it away ? What type of person are you ? Are you a rip the plaster off type of person or slowly

20:14

ease it off ?

20:16

I was a slow , easy

20:18

but I'm learning to

20:20

be a bit bolder with my clients

20:22

and a bit more

20:25

challenging them quicker

20:27

and again

20:29

, I will adjust to my clients where

20:32

I will start with , where they are and

20:34

what they want as well . But

20:38

the older I get , the

20:40

bolder I get . I hope I'm

20:42

trying to challenge a bit more . Just

20:45

take it out .

20:48

How much pushback do you get ? Because

20:50

I know that some of your direct

20:52

clients that you coach are

20:54

global leaders , high

20:57

level people , and how

21:00

do they accept someone

21:02

challenging them to

21:05

really be introspective

21:07

, look at themselves critically ? Because

21:09

you don't tell them what's wrong . We don't . As coaches

21:12

, we help them to identify

21:14

themselves , but how do

21:16

you do you feel a pushback for

21:18

that ?

21:19

no , and and I will never tell them what

21:21

to do . Who am I to tell ? them what to do

21:23

right . So it's really more about

21:25

, uh , really actively

21:27

listening to them and trying to see what

21:29

are the excuses they gave to

21:31

themselves , what are their blind

21:34

spots , and just being curious about

21:36

is it you just said something ? Is it

21:38

an excuse and they can just push

21:40

back if they're not ? So it's

21:42

about really just helping them say

21:44

what no one else would say . I mean , their

21:46

staff cannot say that I'm

21:49

paid for that right and they're paying

21:51

me . And , of course , course , when we contract

21:54

at the beginning of the relationship , I would ask

21:56

how do you want to be coached ? What do you want

21:58

? What do you accept ? What are your limits

22:00

? What do you want me not to do

22:02

? So it's really about , uh , building

22:05

rapport and and just agreeing

22:07

on what is acceptable and

22:09

what is not .

22:10

One of the things I learned very

22:13

powerfully the first meeting you

22:15

have with somebody who you've not met before and

22:18

they want you to coach them . You

22:20

call it the chemistry session .

22:22

Correct .

22:23

At first I thought you meant just

22:25

building rapport , but the chemistry

22:28

is really important with a

22:30

coach who you're going to work

22:32

with and if you feel uncomfortable

22:35

I'll give people permission . If you're not comfortable

22:37

with me as your coach now we find

22:39

out . But I've also found that

22:41

I've turned a couple of clients down who

22:44

I felt that I couldn't work

22:46

with . I never thought I'd do that . You always

22:48

think that you're just out to get as

22:50

many clients as you can . Thought

22:52

I'd do that . You always think that you're just out to

22:54

get as many clients as you can . But I realize how important

22:56

it is that you have the commitment , the connection that

22:59

you know that they're going to

23:01

work with you . Have

23:04

you had many clients that you

23:06

have turned down at

23:08

that chemistry session ?

23:10

because there was an issue with values

23:12

.

23:13

Yes .

23:13

I felt the person was not ready to be coached

23:16

. So you have to assess that , otherwise

23:18

it's going to impact you , it's going to impact your

23:20

client . It's just a disaster

23:23

, right ? So you have to . So

23:26

one was value . We could not

23:28

connect at all . I knew I would not

23:30

be a good coach for this person .

23:31

So , yes , not ready to good coach for this person .

23:32

So , yes , not ready to be coached thinking

23:35

they were , but they were not ready to .

23:37

I had one like that and the

23:39

reason they weren't ready to be coached in the first

23:41

meeting . They basically told me they

23:44

were only there because their manager had

23:46

told them that they need coaching

23:48

yes and the resistance was so

23:50

strong I thought

23:52

it's not going to be broken down

23:54

in two or three meetings . This is going to be halfway

23:56

through the coaching engagement , before

23:58

I actually start proper work . And

24:01

I just fed back directly

24:04

to that person on the spot that

24:07

they need to want to do the coaching

24:09

for themselves and perhaps they should

24:11

go away . I

24:14

also said perhaps you don't feel comfortable with me , that's fine

24:16

, but I'd recommend you have that

24:18

discussion with your manager . I didn't report back

24:20

to the manager , by the way . Yeah , I

24:22

said that's their job , not my job , to

24:25

report back . So another

24:27

area I wanted to probe into

24:29

on that , when you are working with

24:31

corporate , it's

24:36

usually there are stakeholders from various different parts , like

24:38

the direct manager , someone

24:41

who's responsible for leadership and development

24:44

in the company , the HR manager

24:46

and the person themselves . How

24:49

do you manage those different stakeholder

24:51

relationships when engaging

24:54

as a coach ?

24:55

You have to align at the very

24:58

beginning with everyone . So

25:00

what I would do , I would organize a

25:02

meeting with a coachee and a

25:04

manager most of the time and we

25:06

will align on the goals and I will

25:09

facilitate the conversation . And it's very

25:11

important to do that because sometimes you realize

25:13

the manager wants this

25:16

and the employee wants something else . I had a client

25:18

. It was about executive presence . The

25:21

manager wanted the coachee

25:23

to be more assertive

25:25

, more confident , to work on the

25:28

body language , and the

25:30

coachee he wanted to be able

25:32

to , uh , to empower

25:34

team with vision . So it was

25:36

totally this huge misalignment

25:38

. So we spend enough time , I facilitate

25:40

the conversation and we managed to agree

25:42

on some goals . So that's the first

25:45

step and then I will coach a client

25:47

and I will never , ever , share

25:50

anything with any stakeholders .

25:52

Critical .

25:53

Absolutely critical .

25:56

You don't want to breach confidentiality . I encourage the coachee to

25:59

communicate back Exactly

26:02

Themselves .

26:03

Exactly .

26:04

I do not communicate back and

26:07

any coach you come across

26:09

who is talking to you

26:11

as a coachee and separately

26:14

talking to your manager , I would run for the

26:16

hills .

26:16

I would suggest they're probably not

26:18

ICF accredited coaches no

26:21

, exactly , and you know trust

26:23

, everything is based on trust

26:25

, right ?

26:26

so if you don't have trust , you don't have you

26:28

still coach , but your main

26:30

role these days is creating

26:33

the coaches of the future . What

26:35

made you move from

26:37

being a coach into a coach

26:39

of coaches then ?

26:40

I love coaching , but I also

26:42

love sharing . I love group coaching

26:45

, group training , so I

26:47

found a right balance between the

26:49

two . But , most importantly

26:52

, I decided to develop GoMaster

26:54

Coach training school because

26:56

I really wanted to have more impact . I'm

26:59

a bit obsessed with impact and how I can

27:01

do more , how I can impact more people , how

27:03

can we create more positive changes . So

27:06

that was the idea as well is , if I train

27:08

people to become coaches , they

27:10

will be able to coach even more people , and

27:13

you know it has a ripple effect

27:15

, right . So that's one of

27:17

my mission and really something I really

27:19

care about and I really want to , to

27:23

, to , to work on . So , and

27:25

and also , as you mentioned , when

27:28

you train people to become coaches , you

27:30

also coach people , right .

27:31

Yes , yes through the process .

27:34

It's a different approach , but I

27:36

felt it was also very fulfilling and

27:39

I love the conversation and the collective intelligence

27:42

and , and I think , the synergies in

27:44

a group are pretty interesting

27:47

as well you arrived at that and

27:49

I've arrived at a different point , but for the same

27:52

reasons , and the aim of

27:54

this podcast is impact

27:56

and a ripple effect .

27:59

So for me , I'm a lot older

28:01

than you , I have less time , so I have to make more

28:03

impact quicker . Back to then

28:05

, when you are coaching coaches , one

28:08

of the things I anticipate

28:11

is the case you are imparting

28:13

knowledge , but at the same time

28:15

just in our group of 10

28:18

, they're so disparate , so different . How

28:21

much do you learn from

28:23

the people you're coaching who come fresh

28:26

? They want to be coaches ? They may have

28:28

zero experience , but do

28:30

you still learn from them

28:32

and what and how do you learn ?

28:34

oh , yes , absolutely , and that's also why I love

28:36

this uh , group coaching

28:38

, group training , and you know there's people like

28:41

you very experienced , a

28:43

lot of expertise , so I

28:45

see my role not so much as a trainer or

28:47

teacher but more as a facilitator

28:49

. And that's what coaching is it's about facilitating

28:52

. So it's really about facilitating interesting

28:55

conversation , meaningful conversation

28:57

and learning from

29:00

each and every

29:02

individual in the room , and so

29:04

that does this mirror effect that is

29:06

so powerful , and people open

29:09

up and share their vulnerabilities

29:11

and what they've learned . So I learn from each

29:13

individual and that's what is amazing

29:15

in my job and I'm grateful

29:18

for that every single day . It's just learning from

29:20

people's stories and their experiences

29:22

and seeing some patterns

29:24

as well . The more you train , the more patterns

29:27

you see .

29:29

Okay , so you have more experience of that than

29:31

me . Tell me what

29:33

kind of patterns do you see ? Okay , so you have more

29:35

experience of that than me . Tell me what kind of patterns do you see that cuts across age , experience

29:38

, gender , culture ? What kind

29:40

of patterns are you seeing in the human behavior

29:43

of coaches then ?

29:44

We all have those multiple layers

29:46

. So there's the cultural layers

29:49

, gender layers , you know all those personas

29:52

we have created along the years depending

29:54

on the jobs we've done . But

29:56

at the end of the day , we all have

29:58

those questions of confidence

30:01

, right , fears . Yeah

30:03

, that's just being human , right and

30:05

it's about OK . The big question

30:07

is how can I be more confident

30:10

to do what

30:12

I want to do ? So the pattern I see

30:14

you have to peel the

30:16

cultural layers , the professional

30:18

layers and , at the end

30:20

of the day , the patterns . It's about always

30:22

, always , ok , I'm not confident enough .

30:25

I think we need to expand on , because I think it applies

30:27

to almost everyone . It's

30:30

fear . We all have

30:32

some kind of deep-rooted

30:35

fear , which comes from your

30:37

childhood , your experiences

30:39

, your culture , your background , whatever

30:42

that tells you that you're not good

30:44

enough . So what

30:47

advice would you give anybody

30:50

in facing up to their

30:52

fears in order to take

30:54

the next step and improve themselves ?

30:56

So first is about what

30:59

is it ?

30:59

What is this fear ? Give it a name .

31:02

Exactly Because very often we oh , I'm afraid

31:04

, I'm scared , but about what

31:06

? you know , so we have this fear hanging

31:09

, floating around in the unconscious

31:11

mind most of the time , and

31:13

it's paralyzing , but we don't even know what

31:15

it is . So the first step

31:17

is OK , what am I afraid

31:19

of ? Just look at this fear

31:21

and give it a name . Ok , I'm

31:23

afraid of failure . I'm afraid

31:26

to fail . For what ? What is a failure

31:28

? What does it look like and why

31:30

? You know so , just really , you

31:32

can write it down . You can hire a coach

31:34

to verbalize and

31:36

give it a name . So that's the first thing . And

31:39

once you grasp the fear and you have

31:41

it , it's concrete . It's just much easier

31:44

, you realize it , you own it . You own

31:46

it Absolutely and you realize it's not

31:48

so big , Right ? So you

31:50

just so . That's the first step , and

31:52

then you have to accept

31:55

it , own it and just focus

31:57

on your strength to

32:00

overcome those fears . And , just as

32:02

you said , action , strength and action . I

32:05

think it's like okay , this is what I'm

32:07

afraid of , but this is also what I'm

32:09

good at , and this is there's

32:11

no courage without

32:13

fears , right ? So it's about being

32:16

courageous enough to use your strengths

32:18

to act despite fear if

32:21

there's nothing to fear , there's no need for courage

32:23

, right ?

32:24

absolutely yeah it frustrates me

32:26

now , since training as a coach , hearing

32:28

people interchangeably use

32:31

the terms coach and

32:33

mentor . So

32:35

I think I have a clear view of

32:37

the differences now , but can

32:39

you share with our viewers

32:42

the difference between a coach

32:44

and a mentor ?

32:45

It's very important and there's a huge misconceptions

32:49

around it , lots of confusion . So let's

32:51

clarify this A coach will

32:53

never tell you what to do . They

32:56

will ask questions , they will mirror

32:58

, they will share what they see , they

33:01

will use their intuition . They will

33:03

empower you to find your own

33:05

solutions . Why ? Because

33:07

what worked for me might not

33:09

work for you . So I don't want to project

33:12

on you what worked

33:14

. So that's coaching . It's really mainly

33:16

helping you think deeper , find

33:18

your own resources and define

33:20

your , get clarity on what you really

33:22

want . So that's what a coach do . A

33:25

mentor will use their

33:27

expertise , their knowledge

33:30

, their experience to inspire you

33:32

. So they will share to inspire

33:34

you . They will tell you , give some advice

33:37

, but that's not what a coach

33:39

do and there's a lot of confusion around

33:41

that .

33:42

A way I like to explain it is a

33:44

mentor is usually someone in your workplace

33:47

who has more experienced

33:50

than you in what you're about to face

33:52

and so can share

33:54

with you . A coach does

33:56

not need to have any

33:58

knowledge of your workplace or

34:00

the products that you're in or the markets

34:03

that you operate in . They are

34:05

, as you say , reflecting to

34:07

you . They are pulling

34:10

out from you your inner resources

34:12

, because we actually have a lot

34:14

more inside us than any

34:17

of us ever think . Until you start

34:19

to get deeply into it and I

34:21

started to understand that even more in the last couple

34:24

of years training as a hypnotherapist

34:26

you always hear this phrase over and

34:28

over you've got to want to change , you've

34:31

got to want to do something . So

34:33

a coach is not going to tell you what to do . They're

34:36

not going to help you to do it and say

34:38

this is the way you go . Similarly

34:41

, in hypnotherapy , we don't tell

34:43

them you're going to stop this

34:45

or do that

34:48

. It's the

34:50

key is how we

34:52

unlock that inside us . Yes

34:55

, so I'm now doing two

34:57

things coaching , hypnotherapy

34:59

of helping people unlock inside

35:02

them , face their fears

35:04

, move on . Basically

35:06

, my only regret is

35:08

I didn't learn about coaching 20

35:10

plus years ago . I had many mentors

35:13

, but I never had a coach . I

35:15

always thought I had coaches , but I had

35:17

mentors who were fantastic and extremely

35:20

useful , but

35:22

having a coach as well would

35:24

have supercharged me

35:26

, I believe . Yeah , what

35:29

advice would you give ? Let's

35:31

give you a typical someone

35:33

in their mid-30s getting

35:36

on in their career , looking at the

35:38

boardroom they're on their way up . Yeah

35:41

, what one thing

35:43

would you advise them to

35:45

do to supercharge

35:47

their ascent ?

35:49

I mean , if there's one thing I would tell them

35:51

, I would ask them , it would

35:53

be if you were not afraid

35:55

, what would you do ? So

35:59

I would start with that , and it's

36:01

a self-awareness question

36:04

and it's a fear question and

36:06

it's a yeah . So I think it's a good question

36:08

to reflect on for any leaders , for

36:10

anyone . Basically , it's really

36:12

about self-awareness , and I became the

36:14

coach I wish I had 20

36:17

years ago . So that's why , also

36:19

, I became a coach . So I think

36:21

they should also try to

36:24

be their own clients , try to

36:26

coach themselves , try to be

36:28

more aware of who they are , what are

36:30

their strengths , what are their values , what are their

36:32

triggers . That self-awareness

36:34

is key , as you know , in leadership . Yes for

36:37

sure , and this is exactly what you mentioned , I

36:39

think , if they can work , so just understand

36:42

they're more so . If

36:45

you were not afraid , what would you do ? That's

36:47

the first thing , and

36:49

the second is just work on yourself

36:51

, discover who you really , really , truly

36:53

are .

36:54

AI is all the rage now . It's everywhere

36:57

, it's all around us . Where

36:59

do you see coaching

37:01

and AI ? You already mentioned

37:04

you've incorporated AI into

37:06

the training program . How

37:08

do you see this intersection

37:11

of human and

37:13

artificial intelligence working

37:16

in coaching for

37:18

individuals and for coaches

37:20

?

37:21

I think it will replace a lot

37:23

of what we do today . I

37:25

mean , I just sometimes say 80 , 90

37:28

percent of what we do in

37:30

terms of , you

37:32

know , understanding people , patterns

37:35

, even spotting limiting beliefs and

37:38

you know this is the human . Do

37:40

not have the memories

37:43

yeah , to be able to capture everything

37:46

. So I think it will replace

37:48

90 percent of what we do . What it will not replace

37:50

what we do , what he will not replace

37:52

. What we probably need to cultivate

37:54

is this human

37:57

relationship this trust

37:59

emotional intelligence to

38:02

build rapport and just being connected

38:04

with people emotionally , but

38:08

the rest , I think everything can

38:10

be more or less replaced , and

38:12

I'm being coached as well . I

38:14

love being coached by Chad GPT and trying to play

38:17

around and I think it's fantastic , but

38:19

I will never get the support I have from another

38:22

human being . So I think we really

38:24

need to focus on our

38:26

unique human

38:29

selling point or

38:31

human unique selling point , whatever human unique

38:33

selling points , whatever so

38:36

and just leverage

38:38

AI as much as possible

38:40

. That's my view .

38:41

The final frontier for AI is

38:44

going to be EQ and

38:46

AI . Yeah , emotional intelligence

38:48

is the last vestige of

38:51

humanity that we hold on to Right . This is the last vestige

38:53

of humanity that we hold on to right . And what

38:55

I found ? I talk

38:58

to my chat GPT a lot to

39:00

help it learn about me . And

39:03

I think that's important , that you

39:05

have to embrace it . You can't run away from it . It's

39:08

real . It's a bit like someone saying

39:10

when the internet came well , I'm not doing that , that's

39:12

not going to take off . Ai is here , it's

39:14

real , it's is now and it's going to accelerate

39:17

for sure , so why not use it

39:19

? But I find the people I

39:21

speak with they use it for

39:23

the most inane things they'll ask

39:25

a question or they want to write

39:28

a letter simplistic . It's

39:31

a learning environment , so

39:33

I let it learn as much about me as possible

39:36

. Now I'm a little afraid

39:38

it knows me better than I do . You

39:41

just posted on linkedin the other day on

39:44

, you know , ask chat gpt

39:46

about what type of

39:48

personality you are , etc

39:51

. With the enneagram , etc . It was

39:53

scarily accurate , so

39:56

I've trained it well . But

39:58

advice to the

40:01

viewers is you have to embrace

40:03

it . Advice to

40:05

coaches who are watching this it's

40:07

going to replace 80 and 90 percent of what you , so

40:10

you'd better embrace it anyway

40:12

, right , and find a way

40:14

to interact with it

40:16

in the best way possible

40:18

, bringing the best of both worlds , which is what

40:21

you're doing with GoMaster Coach , right

40:23

.

40:23

Yeah , exactly . And people say

40:25

you won't be replaced by

40:28

AI as a coach , but

40:30

you will be replaced by a coach

40:32

using AI .

40:33

That's a very good one , very insightful

40:35

.

40:36

I still believe that for many types

40:38

of coaching also , ai can replace a

40:40

coach easily . So

40:43

for more transactional coaching , I would say , yeah

40:46

, there's different levels .

40:46

Yeah , absolutely , and when you're coming

40:48

to the kind of people who we coach

40:51

, who are already senior executives

40:53

, I

40:56

like to think they'd be the last ones to go , because they

40:59

have to have someone who is

41:01

asking those searching questions

41:03

of them , who is holding

41:05

them to account . As you said , I

41:08

thought I'd have to be braver than I

41:10

am . I find , once you wear

41:12

a coach's hat , the person

41:14

sitting talking to you , no matter what their position

41:16

, at least says they're

41:18

a coach . They're asking me

41:20

these questions for my good , so I

41:23

felt I can get away with a lot of my questions

41:25

. I don't know about you . You can push

41:28

the boundaries , then , of the questions that you would

41:30

ask . How do you feel about

41:32

pushing those boundaries and the

41:35

fear of ? We all have this fear again rejection

41:38

, ridicule . This guy's

41:40

much smarter than me . I haven't

41:42

found that . So I've overcome that fear

41:45

and now I'm fearless in my coaching and

41:47

I think you're super good at that .

41:48

You're very you're fearless and just ask

41:50

your challenge .

41:51

Regardless .

41:53

But I was so afraid because I'm

41:56

a people pleaser and when I studied I

41:58

learned that I was too kind

42:01

, asking gentle

42:03

questions , and I've lost a client

42:05

because of that . I've learned the other

42:08

way , that it's better to be bold , it's

42:10

better to challenge people . They don't pay

42:12

you just to be kind . They pay you

42:14

to learn , so you need to . So

42:16

it was a good reframe . You

42:18

know you learn by failing . So

42:21

I've lost a client because I was too kind , too soft

42:23

, just listening too , you

42:26

know , passively . So

42:28

I learned that I should be much

42:30

more assertive and bold

42:33

as a client and just share what I see

42:35

and what I feel

42:37

and my intuition . It's about sharing your

42:39

intuition and challenging your clients . So

42:42

yeah , I've learned along the way

42:44

. I still have room for improvement

42:46

.

42:47

I can learn from you . I think it's

42:49

continuous , and someone asked

42:52

me one of my

42:54

friends from childhood so when are you going to

42:56

stop ? Because during lockdown

42:58

I qualified as a barber . I

43:00

own a barber shop , so I thought that was logical

43:03

. And then hypnotherapy and

43:05

coaching . When you're going to stop being

43:07

curious and stop learning

43:10

is the moment it ends . You

43:20

just accept that mediocrity . This is

43:22

your life . Um

43:25

, so what advice would

43:27

you give anybody listening

43:29

to acquire

43:32

that curiosity , then to

43:34

continue to learn and I think

43:36

we really share this core value of learning

43:38

and sharing and , yeah , continue

43:41

to learn .

43:41

I think , and as a coach , as you say , it's a

43:43

lifelong journey and it's a beauty of

43:45

it you never get bored because you have so much

43:47

to learn and it's it's just

43:50

infinite . Apart joining my

43:52

coaching course . No

43:54

, I'm kidding , I don't have any advice

43:56

for people . I

43:58

mean , just learning is more like

44:01

what is it that you want to discover

44:03

? It's more a question what is it that you want to discover

44:05

? What

44:10

is it that you want to be possible ? That is not yet possible . And going back to the

44:12

question is what

44:14

are you afraid of ? What are you always

44:16

? You know , uh , what

44:18

, if you were not afraid , what would you do ? And

44:21

then act on it and learn on it . Learn what

44:23

you , what else you can do . So it's really about

44:26

more learning about , uh

44:28

, the possibilities of being

44:30

human , and just uh that curiosity

44:33

.

44:33

I've always been curious . If

44:36

you're in Singapore , they say capo . In

44:38

Australia there is sticky beak , in

44:40

the UK a nosy park . I've always been all

44:43

of those things in whatever country I've operated

44:46

in . But I also found that

44:48

that is the best way to learn . And

44:50

when you meet somebody for the first time

44:53

, some people I know are

44:55

fearful of meeting new people for whatever reason

44:57

. Or they go to a networking event

44:59

. What am I going to do ? What am I going

45:01

to say ? Who am I going to talk to ? The

45:04

one advice I'd give is

45:06

just engage with

45:08

a question . Don't

45:11

think what you want to tell anybody . Think

45:13

I'll ask them a question because everyone

45:16

then feels relaxed and comfortable . They've

45:18

asked me something so I can now

45:20

respond , yeah , and conversation

45:23

then just flows like

45:25

what we're doing here . Yeah is an

45:27

exchange of ideas , but it's questions

45:29

back and forth and you

45:31

see what comes out of it . I

45:34

have 15

45:36

questions here . I was going to ask you . I think

45:38

I've asked one because

45:40

as you ask questions , it unravels

45:43

things and it moves in a certain

45:45

direction , right ? Yeah , absolutely

45:48

so . My strongest advice to

45:50

build relationships question

45:53

as a coach .

45:54

One of the participants once said I think it's

45:56

exactly what you mentioned is because

45:59

when you're a coach , you want to ask the right question

46:01

and just you're thinking about a very

46:03

yeah to the smart question

46:05

or the right question , just like don't

46:08

ask , don't try to ask the

46:10

perfect question , just ask

46:12

the curious question , and

46:14

I think it's such a beautiful way

46:17

to create connection indeed

46:19

.

46:20

If you weren't a coach and you didn't

46:22

have Go Master coaching , what

46:25

would you be doing otherwise ? Do you think now

46:27

?

46:27

I love arts . Maybe

46:32

I would do something around arts design . I love creativity

46:34

, but I think it would be something around arts design . I love

46:36

creativity , but I think it would be something around empowerment , around

46:39

using art or creativity

46:41

, I don't know . I'm

46:43

feeling so aligned

46:46

at the moment .

46:48

So a creativity coach perhaps .

46:50

Yeah , perhaps we have one . So

46:52

you've landed really in

46:54

your sweet spot and you're

46:56

growing within your sweet spot I mean

46:58

, it might evolve , I might pivot

47:00

, so yeah , but at

47:03

the moment I feel very aligned with what

47:05

I want , who I am and what

47:07

I can bring now

47:10

. But it can definitely evolve and I love

47:12

. I love new

47:14

challenges . I always love discovering

47:18

new things .

47:19

So yeah , for now it's good , but

47:21

it's you're afraid of being an entrepreneur , but

47:24

you're very entrepreneurial , in fact yeah

47:26

, and that's the beauty of doing things , you realize

47:28

.

47:29

I love it yeah yeah , absolutely . So

47:31

I would definitely launch

47:34

something or create something .

47:36

The corporate world . How do you feel

47:38

having left it in your rearview

47:40

mirror now ? Do you miss it ?

47:42

What I might miss is maybe the

47:44

team . Yeah , the

47:47

traveling . I don't travel

47:49

much at the moment , but no , I

47:51

don't miss it at all .

47:53

I love freedom , we only miss the regular paycheck

47:55

right .

47:56

No , exactly , but no , I love freedom

47:58

is one of my core values as well . So freedom

48:00

, creativity , being able to

48:03

create , to launch whatever I want whenever

48:05

I want , and it works well . So , so

48:07

far , so good .

48:08

I don't miss the corporate world and I

48:10

think , yeah , we

48:12

are not meant to

48:14

to to be

48:16

in and the corporate world is changing

48:19

drastically , yeah , so I don't recognize

48:21

it I've been out five years and I

48:23

don't recognize it any longer geraldine

48:26

, I just wanted to thank you for coming in this morning

48:28

and sharing your own journey

48:30

with us and helping

48:33

to inspire some of our audience

48:35

to make the changes in their own

48:37

life , whether they use a real

48:39

coach , an AI coach or

48:42

just a good talk to themselves . Thank

48:44

you very much . Fascinating insight

48:46

today .

48:47

Thank you so much , Kisa , for having me . It was

48:49

really a pleasure being

48:51

with you .

48:53

Merci beaucoup . Thanks for listening

48:55

to the Power Within . I hope today's

48:57

episode inspired you to grow , lead

49:00

and create the success you deserve

49:02

. If you enjoyed the podcast

49:04

, share it with someone who might find

49:06

it valuable , and don't forget to subscribe

49:09

and leave a review . Join us next

49:11

time as we explore more stories of

49:13

leadership and personal growth , and

49:16

remember that setbacks are just

49:18

stepping stones to something greater

49:20

. Until then , stay strong , stay

49:23

positive and keep believing in

49:25

the power within .