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out for 50% off your first

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week. This is the poll, stories

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about the people and places at

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the heart of health and science.

0:49

I'm Mike and Scott. On the

0:51

night of February 3rd, 2023, Zuzia

0:53

Genes and her nine-year-old son were

0:55

up late making crafts in their

0:57

apartment in East Palestine, right by

0:59

the Pennsylvania border. Around nine, they

1:02

noticed there was a fire down

1:04

the road. So they stepped outside

1:06

into the frigid night to check

1:08

things out. And then we saw

1:10

like these huge flames, like hundreds

1:12

of feet tall, and I was like. This

1:14

is bad. They hurried back inside and

1:16

watched from the window as sirens blared

1:19

through the night. It was really crazy.

1:21

And my son, he's nine, he loves

1:23

fire engines, police cars, all this stuff.

1:25

So he was like reenacting it with

1:27

his toys and was like running back

1:30

and forth to the window, you know,

1:32

counting up all like the undercover cop

1:34

cars and all this crazy stuff. And

1:36

he's like, this is exciting, but it's

1:38

scary at the same time. Thankfully, her

1:41

son finally fell asleep. But Juja stayed

1:43

up, texting with neighbors, trying to figure

1:45

out what was going on. Everyone's like, did

1:47

you just hear that explosion? Because it was

1:49

constantly exploding. There was these flames, like, like,

1:51

just, and they would go up and they

1:53

would get it down, and then it would

1:55

restart and these explosions, these booms, and everyone's

1:57

just like freaking out, like, what do we

1:59

do? So like what's going on? And

2:01

nobody had any information. Then around three

2:04

in the morning, she heard a strange

2:06

loud noise coming from her son's room.

2:08

She got up, rushed into his room,

2:11

and a powerful smell hit her right

2:13

away. It smelled like bleach. And he,

2:15

my son, is up in his bed

2:17

coughing, vomiting, like projectile vomiting, shaking, he's

2:20

gasping for air, begging for water. Schuja

2:22

was terrified. And whatever the smell was,

2:24

she was starting to react to it

2:27

as well. You immediately get this film

2:29

on your mouth and your tongue, just

2:31

breathing in there, like you know there's

2:34

something in there and your body's telling

2:36

it was like a huge warning sign

2:38

and he's obviously sick. wasn't sick before

2:40

and you know I thought it was

2:43

in my head until within a few

2:45

minutes that's all it took and then

2:47

you know I was like we got

2:50

to go. She grabbed a bag and

2:52

they hopped in the car and drove

2:54

20 miles east to a hotel in

2:56

Chippawa Pennsylvania near her son's grandmother and

2:59

we get there like five in the

3:01

morning he finally like gets to sleep

3:03

and he throws up like one more

3:06

time and then he just passes out.

3:08

By that morning, the incident was all

3:10

over the news. A Norfolk Southern freight

3:13

train had derailed near Zusha's house, leaving

3:15

a smouldering tangle of 38 cars along

3:17

the tracks. And the explosions they heard,

3:19

the smell, the sickness, and vomiting, that

3:22

was just the beginning for Zusha and

3:24

many of her neighbors, who would soon

3:26

find out that they had been exposed

3:29

to hazardous chemicals. Our

3:31

bodies come in contact with all

3:33

kinds of potentially harmful things that

3:36

we can't always see or smell.

3:38

On this episode, exposures, everything from

3:40

chemicals to sunlight and black plastic.

3:42

To get started, let's hear more

3:44

about what happened to the community

3:47

around East Palestine. In the days

3:49

after the derailment, officials made a

3:51

decision that was supposed to protect

3:53

residents... from further explosions. But this

3:56

decision backfired and exposed them to

3:58

even more hazardous chemicals. Hundreds of

4:00

people living in and around East

4:02

Palestine have since reported symptoms like

4:04

headaches, coughs, and rashes. And the

4:07

long-term effects could be even more

4:09

severe. Reporter Julie Grant has been

4:11

following this story since the derailment

4:13

happened two years ago, and she

4:16

picks it up from here. When

4:18

Juzia Janice's son woke up the

4:20

morning after the derailment in the

4:22

hotel room 20 miles away from

4:24

their home, he seemed fine back

4:27

to his normal self. But he

4:29

started developing his rashes on his

4:31

arms, which was weird because he

4:33

hadn't been in contact with anything

4:35

like that. Over the weekend, they

4:38

spent time with his grandmother. Juja

4:40

anxiously keeping an eye out for

4:42

new information on the disaster that

4:44

had struck their community. On Monday,

4:47

Ohio Governor Mike DeWine and other

4:49

public officials held a live-streamed press

4:51

conference where he explained what was

4:53

about to happen. Ohio Governor Mike

4:55

DeWine and Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro

4:58

ordering an immediate evacuation and immediate

5:00

evacuation and immediate evacuation. in a

5:02

one mile by two mile area

5:04

surrounding East Palestine which includes both

5:07

Ohio and Pennsylvania. That afternoon they

5:09

planned to vent more than a

5:11

million pounds of vinyl chloride from

5:13

five of the rail cars and

5:15

purposely burn it. Otherwise, they worried

5:18

it could explode. Vinyl chloride is

5:20

usually shipped as a liquid under

5:22

high pressure. Governor DeWine pointed to

5:24

a map, a red circle around

5:26

the area closest to the derailment

5:29

site. That's where Zuja's East Palestine

5:31

apartment was. Those in the red

5:33

area. are facing grave danger of

5:35

death. Juja was still 20 miles

5:38

away. Shortly after the chemical burn

5:40

in East Palestine had been executed,

5:42

she was leaving her son's grandmother's

5:44

house to head back to her

5:46

hotel room. I stepped outside the

5:49

end. It was literally like a

5:51

black wall, like in the middle

5:53

of her. street. It looked like

5:55

fog but very very dark it

5:58

was black but it wasn't like

6:00

hovering up high or anything it

6:02

was like a whole wall and

6:04

I turned around right went back

6:06

in and she's immune compromise health

6:09

issues too and I said we

6:11

have to go like we all

6:13

have to go and she went

6:15

outside and her face just turned

6:18

white and we left we all

6:20

left. As

6:23

they drove further away, Zuja thought

6:25

government officials would expand the evacuation

6:27

zone to where she and her

6:29

family had been staying, but they

6:31

didn't. So I'm like, how, how,

6:33

how is a safe? They rushed

6:35

to get further away and they

6:37

never really returned, at least not

6:39

to live. I caught up with

6:41

Juja later that year, the fall

6:43

after the derailment. She told me

6:45

that since those initial exposures, she'd

6:47

been having menstrual issues and her

6:49

son had unexplained rashes. It was

6:51

like two or three months later,

6:53

he started getting these splotches on

6:55

his face, like only on his

6:57

face and they would show up

6:59

and last for like maybe anywhere

7:01

from... 20 minutes to an hour

7:03

and then they would go away

7:05

and none of his specialists can

7:07

you know tell us what it

7:09

is or what's causing it. It's

7:11

all been a lot for Juja

7:13

herself to understand so it's been

7:15

really hard to figure out how

7:17

to talk with her son about

7:19

it to help him make sense

7:21

of what's happened, why he had

7:23

to leave his home and school.

7:25

How is it shaping a child's

7:27

viewpoint of what the world is

7:29

and what it means to be

7:31

good or what it means to

7:33

find justice or you know safety

7:35

even? Who can he trust? That's

7:37

a tough question, and a fair

7:39

one. The disastrous incident and especially

7:41

the controlled release of vinyl chloride

7:43

in the aftermath came under intense

7:45

scrutiny in the weeks and months

7:47

after. The National Transportation Safety Board

7:49

and Independent Governmental Agency held a

7:51

series of investigative hearings. Jennifer Homendy,

7:53

the agency's chair, was asked about

7:55

their findings during a Senate committee

7:57

hearing, and her testimony was kind

7:59

of a bombshell. The National Transportation

8:01

Safety Board had found that the

8:03

vent and burn of vinyl chloride

8:05

from those railcars was not necessary.

8:08

Northwark Southern, the rail company,

8:10

was pushing for the vent and

8:12

burn. It claimed that temperatures in

8:14

the cars were increasing and that

8:17

the tankers could undergo a chemical

8:19

reaction called polymerization and explode. But

8:21

Vice President J.D. Vance at the

8:24

time Senator for Ohio confirmed with

8:26

Jennifer Homendy that oxyvinels, the company

8:28

that owned the vinyl chloride, found

8:30

that the temperatures had actually decreased.

8:33

Is it true that the chemical shipper

8:35

oxyvinels concluded that the reported and

8:37

stabilized tank car temperatures were too

8:39

low for a runaway chemical reaction,

8:41

meaning the sort of thing that

8:43

would lead to an uncontrolled explosion?

8:45

That's correct. They had testified that

8:47

polymerization was not occurring in order

8:50

for polymerization to occur, which was

8:52

the Norfolk Southern and their contractor's

8:54

justification for the vent and burn.

8:56

You would have to have rapidly

8:58

increasing temperatures and some sort of

9:01

infusion of oxygen. neither of which

9:03

occurred. She then testified that Norfolk

9:05

Southern did not share this

9:07

information with decision makers. Instead,

9:10

it gave them 13 minutes

9:12

to decide whether to approve

9:14

the vent and burn operation

9:16

or face a possible uncontrolled

9:18

explosion. So Oxyvinels was on

9:20

scene providing information. to Norfolk

9:23

Southern's contractor who was in

9:25

the room when advice was

9:27

given to the governor of

9:29

Ohio, to the incident commander.

9:31

They were not given full

9:34

information because no one

9:36

was told Oxivinal was

9:38

on scene. They were left out of

9:40

the room. The incident commander didn't

9:43

even know they existed.

9:45

Neither did the governor.

9:47

So they were provided

9:49

incomplete information. to make

9:51

a decision. She testified

9:53

that Norfolk Southern could have waited and

9:55

allowed the rail cars to continue to

9:57

cool down instead of pushing to vent

9:59

in burn the vinyl chloride, which

10:01

released over a million pounds of

10:04

it into the surrounding area. When

10:07

the evacuation order was lifted a

10:09

couple of days after the vent

10:11

and burn residents returned to find

10:14

Ash and soot around their homes

10:16

and yards on their cars and

10:18

on playground equipment and Many showed

10:20

up at their doctor's offices Gretchen

10:23

nickel chief medical officer at East

10:25

Liverpool City Hospital about 20 miles

10:27

south of East Palestine started seeing

10:30

patients with physical ailments that could

10:32

be from chemical exposures So when

10:34

I have patients that say I've

10:37

got a skin rash, I've got

10:39

dermatitis, I'm having a hard time

10:41

breathing, I'm diagnosing them with a

10:44

pneumonitis, eyes, ears, no throat irritation.

10:46

This is her speaking at a

10:48

workshop held by the National Academies

10:51

of Sciences in late 2023. She

10:53

says she wasn't sure what to

10:55

tell patients. And knowing that we

10:58

had VOCs and vinyl chloride, what

11:00

if any kind of testing should

11:02

we be doing? Many health providers

11:05

were asking that same question, whether

11:07

they should do urine and blood

11:09

testing for residents exposed to chemicals

11:11

in the derailment. The Pennsylvania Department

11:14

of Health offered a webinar for

11:16

medical providers a few weeks after

11:18

the vent and burn. Mike Lynch,

11:21

Medical Director for the Pittsburgh Poison

11:23

Center, told area doctors that tests

11:25

checking for chemicals in patients' blood

11:28

were not reliable, not clinically useful,

11:30

and not recommended. So yes, with

11:32

confidence you can tell them that

11:35

there is not a chemical test

11:37

that they should be seeking either

11:39

from you or elsewhere at this

11:42

time that can help prove or

11:44

disprove exposure or would help with

11:46

diagnosis treatment or prognosis from any

11:49

of these potential exposures. The Centers

11:51

for Disease Control agreed with this

11:53

advice for local health care providers.

11:55

Treat the patient's symptoms, don't pursue

11:58

testing for chemical exposures. The CDC's

12:00

Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease

12:02

Registry did do an assessment of

12:05

chemical exposures. That's called an a

12:07

survey of residents' symptoms after the

12:09

incident. While they walked around the

12:12

community knocking on doors, their own

12:14

agents got sick and had to

12:16

leave the area. Months later, residents

12:19

filled the pews of a church

12:21

in East Palestine to hear what

12:23

the survey of 700 Ohio and

12:26

Pennsylvania residents had found. Jill Sugar,

12:28

a CDC director, explained the results.

12:30

They had headaches. coughing, difficulty breathing,

12:33

stuffy nose or sinus congestion, and

12:35

burning nose or throat. One mother

12:37

in the pews said her daughter

12:40

was still vomiting daily since the

12:42

derailment. She and other concerned residents

12:44

had results of urine testing that

12:46

showed markers for vinyl chloride in

12:49

their bodies and they had questions.

12:51

CDC toxicologist Arthur Chang told them

12:53

those tests are often incorrect. Instead

12:56

of blood or urine sampling, he

12:58

advised them to carefully track their

13:00

health with a medical provider in

13:03

case they develop cancer. Vinal chloride

13:05

is a known human carcinogen that

13:07

can increase the risk of developing

13:10

certain liver cancers. So that's the

13:12

reason why we're saying go to

13:14

your doctor so that you can

13:17

get examining. We know how to

13:19

treat injuries are common. We may

13:21

not know how to treat get

13:24

rid of vital chloro from the

13:26

body, but we know how to

13:28

treat those cancers. Juzja Genes was

13:30

there for the meeting, and she

13:33

couldn't believe what the CDC toxicologist

13:35

was saying. My jaw dropped. She

13:37

had already moved away from East

13:40

Palestine, but brought the results of

13:42

her nine-year-old son's urine test to

13:44

this meeting. It showed the markers

13:47

for vinyl chloride. I looked around

13:49

the room, I was like, did

13:51

I just hear that, right? And

13:54

like literally like they came in

13:56

and said these A surveys showed

13:58

that you guys are sick and

14:01

yeah the symptoms matched chemical exposure

14:03

and then we're just not doing

14:05

anything about it. The CDC apologized

14:08

to residents for what they were

14:10

experiencing. and said there was no

14:12

treatment to remove chemicals from people's

14:15

bodies and nothing they could do.

14:17

Since then, researchers have stepped in

14:19

with a variety of studies. For

14:21

example, looking at the movement of

14:24

chemicals that contaminated local streams to

14:26

see if they're making their way

14:28

through the soil into people's drinking

14:31

water wells. Julian Bayer is one

14:33

of at least 10 researchers really

14:35

digging into the exposures from the

14:38

derailment and its aftermath. She's been

14:40

interested in the connection between chemicals

14:42

in the environment and health for

14:45

a long time. It started when

14:47

she was growing up in rural

14:49

Germany on a street with 20

14:52

or so homes. 15 or so

14:54

of the people that lived there

14:56

developed gastric tumors, some pancreatic tumors,

14:59

some liver tumors, and some stomach

15:01

cancer. And I always thought that

15:03

must be something in the water.

15:05

It was just so weird that

15:08

there was this cluster of gastric

15:10

cancers. And so I don't know.

15:12

I've been always thinking about it.

15:15

And later as a medical researcher

15:17

at the University of Louisville in

15:19

Kentucky, she learned about a case

15:22

in the 1970s, a cluster of

15:24

workers at a nearby chemical plant

15:26

had developed liver abnormalities. Some workers

15:29

had been sent into reactors where

15:31

vinyl chloride was being made into

15:33

polyvinyl chloride or PVC. So they

15:36

were exposed to these really, really

15:38

high concentrations. They actually passed out

15:40

within those tanks. Federal safety standards

15:43

for vinyl chloride were quickly created

15:45

and it was considered a seminal

15:47

event in occupational toxicology. Decades later

15:49

in 2010, Julianne joined researchers working

15:52

on biosamples collected at rubber plants

15:54

in Kentucky. They detected a specific

15:56

form of liver disease in those

15:59

samples linked to vinyl chloride exposure.

16:01

More recently, Julianne's team has been

16:03

looking not at those very high...

16:06

occupational exposures to vinyl chloride, but

16:08

at the impact of lower level

16:10

environmental exposures to it and the

16:13

connection with liver disease. For example,

16:15

her team tested mice by dosing

16:17

them with vinyl chloride in amounts

16:20

currently considered safe in the US,

16:22

and all of those mice developed

16:24

tumors. 80% of those cases were

16:27

hepatocellular carcinoma, HCC, that's the major

16:29

malignant liver cancer. Safety limits for

16:31

vinyl chloride have not been updated

16:34

since they were first created, even

16:36

though its use is growing. It's

16:38

estimated that 36 million pounds of

16:40

vinyl chloride is being transported on

16:43

U.S. railways at any given moment,

16:45

moving along on tracks that pass

16:47

through densely populated residential areas and

16:50

small towns like East Palestine. Now

16:52

Julianne's team is collecting blood and

16:54

urine samples from about 300 people

16:57

in East Palestine and testing their

16:59

liver function. They're also sampling the

17:01

air and water both indoors and

17:04

outdoors to see if residents are

17:06

still being exposed to vinyl chloride.

17:08

So if there are homes with

17:11

higher concentrations of chemicals in the

17:13

air or water, we predict that

17:15

these residents will also have... or

17:18

may progress faster in their liver

17:20

disease. Of course, they hope people

17:22

don't develop liver cancer, but she

17:24

wants more attention on the health

17:27

impacts of chemicals like vinyl chloride

17:29

and updated safety standards. I've been

17:31

fighting for this to be recognized

17:34

for years, actually, in the liver

17:36

field because this is not what

17:38

medical students learn. They don't learn

17:41

this in... in medical school. And

17:43

most of the physicians that I

17:45

speak to, they have no idea

17:48

what to do. You know, if

17:50

somebody that thinks that their liver

17:52

disease comes from environmental exposures, they

17:55

don't know what to look for,

17:57

and I think we need to.

17:59

figure this out. In December, the

18:02

US EPA designated vinyl chloride as

18:04

a high-priority chemical for risk evaluation,

18:06

which could lead to tougher safety

18:09

standards. After the derailment in East

18:11

Palestine, members of Congress were quick

18:14

to condemn Norfolk Southern and the

18:16

rail industry and introduced a rail

18:18

safety bill. but that stalled and

18:21

did not get approved. Many people

18:23

in the community joined a class

18:25

action lawsuit against Norfolk Southern and

18:28

a settlement was approved by the

18:30

court last fall. Juja Genes could get

18:32

up to $70,000, but she expects much

18:34

of that money will be used to

18:36

pay off months of hotel bills after

18:38

the derailment. Juja has rented a house

18:40

in another town and her son is

18:42

settled in a new school, but they

18:44

still have health issues like his unexplained

18:46

rashes. She worries about what their exposures

18:48

will mean for their health in the

18:51

future. Because I don't want to spend

18:53

the rest of my life wondering what

18:55

if, or like the next, you know,

18:57

I show up with a rash all

18:59

over my back, you know, what is

19:01

this from? Is this from the drama? Like

19:03

we all have to ask ourselves that the

19:05

rest of our lives every single day.

19:07

That story was reported by

19:09

Julie Grant. She is a

19:11

reporter with the Allegheny Front,

19:13

a public radio program and

19:16

podcast covering the environment in

19:18

Western Pennsylvania. East Palestine and

19:20

Norfolk Southern have just announced

19:22

a $22 million settlement to

19:24

resolve all claims related to

19:26

the derailment. Since the accident,

19:29

the railroad company has already

19:31

invested over $13 million into

19:33

infrastructure and other improvements in

19:35

East Palestine. We're talking about

19:37

exposures, coming up, sun exposure,

19:40

and how to protect yourself

19:42

from different aspects of it. The

19:44

UVA is much less likely

19:46

to give you a sunburn.

19:48

So if you're getting

19:50

tons of UVA exposure,

19:52

you won't know it. That's

19:55

still to come on the pulse.

19:57

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just $15, go to MintMobile.com/switch. This

21:24

is The Pulse. I'm Mike and

21:26

Scott. We're talking about exposures. And

21:29

what happens when we come in

21:31

contact with potentially hazardous things? Sleep

21:33

researcher Olivia Walsh is a bit

21:36

like a neighborhood watchdog. Always looking

21:38

out for one thing. When I

21:40

walk outside. in my neighborhood at

21:42

night and I look through people's

21:45

homes and I see sort of

21:47

harsh overhead lights on late at

21:49

night, it's like seeing an exposed

21:52

wire in their front yard. That's

21:54

because Olivia says getting too much

21:56

light at the wrong time disrupts

21:59

our sleep schedules in ways we're

22:01

unaware of. Out of all the

22:03

things that impact our circadian rhythm,

22:05

light is the most important one.

22:08

Which is kind of ironic because

22:10

it has no mass. It is

22:12

literally immaterial. So people tend to

22:15

think of it as, eh, it's

22:17

not doing that much. It's just

22:19

not that important. But you can

22:22

look at how things... like pills.

22:24

So you can take melatonin in

22:26

a pill and look at how

22:28

it affects your circadian clock and

22:31

it has way less of an

22:33

effect than light does. But people

22:35

feel like the pill does more

22:38

than light does because it's tangible

22:40

and physical. Olivia's new book is

22:42

called Sleep Groove, why your body's

22:45

clock is so messed up and

22:47

what to do about it. She

22:49

says light is like a drug

22:51

or medication. It literally binds to

22:54

receptors. in your eye. Photons come

22:56

in. They hit these options in

22:58

your eyes that trigger a biochemical

23:01

response. So it's a photic signal

23:03

that gets turned into a chemical

23:05

signal and then these cells called

23:08

retinal ganglion cells send that signal

23:10

onto your brain electrically. This is

23:12

the stuff of... drugs, like having

23:14

this biochemical effect on your body,

23:17

the only difference is that it's

23:19

triggered by a photon instead of

23:21

being triggered by you taking a

23:24

pill and putting it in your

23:26

mouth. So light is absolutely a

23:28

drug, but it's not an intuitive

23:31

drug to recognize. You don't usually

23:33

think of yourself as dosing with

23:35

light. We are around artificial lighting

23:37

all the time. We get up

23:40

in the mornings, we have lights

23:42

on in our homes, we have

23:44

lights on in the office, we

23:47

have lights on at night. So

23:49

we can't quite escape the light

23:51

ever. How does that impact us?

23:54

Yeah, so my favorite analogy for

23:56

how The same thing can do

23:58

different things to your body at

24:00

different times is being on a

24:03

swing. And I just mean classic,

24:05

you are on a swing and

24:07

somebody is pushing you from behind.

24:10

Light exposure is like them pushing

24:12

you in the going out direction,

24:14

which is what you want if

24:17

you are also going forward. But

24:19

if you imagine you're swinging backwards

24:21

and you're just... getting to the

24:23

halfway point of your swing and

24:26

they push you again, that's not

24:28

a good swing. That's not what

24:30

you want. You want to get

24:33

all the way through your back

24:35

swing and then get pushed again

24:37

on the forward swing. And so

24:40

having a good swing is about

24:42

both having somebody push you on

24:44

the way out and then having

24:46

them clear out of the way

24:49

when you're swinging backwards. But we

24:51

don't get that with our light

24:53

exposure these days. So in modern

24:56

life, we get kind of weak

24:58

pushes forward because we don't. usually

25:00

get that much light during the

25:03

day. And then, when we're on

25:05

the way back, it's not this

25:07

clear path because we don't really

25:09

get dark, dark much anymore. We

25:12

get darkish, dark. So, even in

25:14

my house, which is blackout curtain,

25:16

no electronic, little blue lights, they've

25:19

all been taped over, I still

25:21

get light from the street lamp

25:23

outside through the cracks, and that

25:26

is... brighter than what I'd get

25:28

if I was in the middle

25:30

of the woods or in a

25:32

basement somewhere and and as a

25:35

result even in my pretty darn

25:37

dark home I still have something

25:39

in my way on the backswing

25:42

I still have that little push

25:44

forward that I don't want and

25:46

what getting that push forward is

25:49

going to disrupt your rhythm. How

25:51

can you avoid getting that push

25:53

at the wrong time? Olivia and

25:55

I discussed that and a lot

25:58

more on a podcast extra where

26:00

you can listen to that whole

26:02

conversation. She told me how she

26:05

has optimized her own sleep schedule

26:07

and why she thinks hours spent

26:09

in darkness and sleep regularity are

26:12

the most important. things. Give it

26:14

a listen wherever you get your

26:16

podcast. Olivia Walsh is a researcher

26:18

at the University of Michigan and

26:21

the author of the new book,

26:23

Sleep Grove, Why Your Body's Clock,

26:25

is so messed up and what

26:28

to do about it. We're talking

26:30

about exposures. I still remember the

26:32

worst sunburn I've ever gotten. I

26:35

was at a lake in Arizona,

26:37

swimming and kayaking, and by the

26:39

afternoon I was so red and

26:41

completely burned to a crisp, especially

26:44

my back. It took at least

26:46

a week for my skin to

26:48

heal. It was a painful lesson

26:51

and it made me way more

26:53

diligent about using sunscreen. Lately though,

26:55

sunscreen has come under attack. A

26:58

bunch of influencers are saying the

27:00

chemicals in sunscreen are actually bad

27:02

for us and could cause skin

27:05

cancer. Experts say these claims are

27:07

totally false, but confusion around sunscreen

27:09

is not new. What kind works

27:11

best? How strong should it be?

27:14

And how much protection are you

27:16

actually getting? Nicole Curry looked into

27:18

what's what. Annie Tomlin got her

27:21

lesson on sunscreen very early in

27:23

life. My mother has a skin

27:25

condition called vitalego, which basically takes

27:28

away pigment from your skin. So

27:30

she had always used sunscreen because

27:32

it was a necessity for her.

27:34

So Annie did too. Even though

27:37

Sun-Kissed Skin was a huge trend

27:39

at the time. And I remember

27:41

being like a teen, eh, tween,

27:44

and really wanting to tan because

27:46

back in the day that was

27:48

the cool thing, right? And my

27:51

mother wouldn't let me. At the

27:53

time I felt like it was

27:55

so unfair. But her mother knew

27:57

best. Any skin doesn't tan. It

28:00

burns. Going from pale to... crimson

28:02

red quickly. So putting on sunscreen

28:04

grew into a habit and by

28:07

the time she was an adult,

28:09

sunscreen was just one step in

28:11

her routine. If it were a

28:14

sunny day, Annie would wear a

28:16

large brim hat. On the beach,

28:18

she would wear long-sleeved rash guards.

28:20

She even reapplied her sunscreen every

28:23

90 minutes with the correct amount.

28:25

To cover your entire body, the

28:27

sunscreen should fill up a shop

28:30

glass, just to give you an

28:32

idea. It was sometimes a pain.

28:34

Reapplying sunscreen is not fun. It's

28:36

kind of like you go to

28:38

the beach, it should be laid

28:41

back, it should be carefree, and

28:43

instead you're like repositioning the beach

28:45

umbrella and wearing long sleeves and

28:47

reapplying the sunscreen before and after

28:49

you go into the water, like

28:52

it kind of doesn't feel as

28:54

much fun. So at the age of

28:56

37, Annie was shocked to be diagnosed

28:58

with basal cell carcinoma,

29:00

skin cancer. It was

29:03

found on her hairline disguised

29:05

as a rough patch. I

29:07

was very confused because I had

29:09

been wearing sunscreen and

29:11

being diligent about wearing

29:14

sunscreen my entire life.

29:16

Thankfully, the type of skin

29:19

cancer Annie had spread slowly.

29:21

and it will rarely metastasize.

29:23

She had the cancer removed

29:25

and underwent a very painful

29:27

procedure to reconstruct the skin

29:29

in the area. She's now

29:31

cancer-free, but still. Annie didn't

29:33

understand how this could have

29:36

happened to her with all of

29:38

the precautions. She put that question

29:40

to her dermatologist. And she said, did

29:42

you wear hats as a kid?

29:44

Because most of our son damaged happens

29:46

when we were children, and I

29:48

had not worn hats. I was

29:50

not hat wearer. And so to

29:53

me that actually makes a lot

29:55

of sense. Who's putting sunscreen into

29:57

their hair? Skin cancer can be

29:59

sneaky. Here's how it works.

30:01

Too much ultraviolet radiation from the

30:03

sun can damage the DNA in

30:06

our skin cells. Over time, that

30:08

damage can cause mutations, increasing the

30:10

risk of skin cancer. The whole

30:12

process can take decades. Therefore, protecting

30:15

your skin from the sun later

30:17

in life doesn't automatically cancel out

30:19

the previous damage, says Darryl Regal.

30:21

He's a professor of dermatology at

30:24

New York University. And that's also

30:26

why it's a little bit tricky

30:28

when you try to go after

30:30

teenagers who just want to be

30:33

tanned to look good or people

30:35

in the young 20s, whatever, then

30:37

by the time they hit 35

30:39

or 40 and they get skin

30:42

cancer, they say, I wish I

30:44

do then what I know now,

30:46

but that it's too late. So

30:48

there's that delay which can cause

30:51

confusion and then there is a

30:53

lot of confusion around sunscreens, and

30:55

it's been that way for decades.

30:57

Back in the 1960s you like

30:59

nothing can tan you come rain

31:02

or come shine. Back in the

31:04

1960s when tanning had already become

31:06

a sign of leisure and wealth

31:08

tanning lotions were being promoted as

31:11

a safe way to get a

31:13

bronze tan. Do you have a

31:15

sun sensitive skin? Do you have

31:17

to spend your days in the

31:20

sun like this? Do you have

31:22

to be a beach mummy or

31:24

suffer the consequences? This

31:28

summer faced the sun, unafraid,

31:30

protected by new greaseless bronze

31:32

tan made by shortage. To

31:34

deliver on the promise of

31:36

a tan without the burn,

31:39

they contained sun protection factor,

31:41

also known as SPF. It's

31:43

a measurement of how well

31:45

a product protects you from

31:47

sunburn. But Darryl says these

31:50

products didn't have a whole

31:52

lot of it. Those they

31:54

could see it's key and

31:56

copper tone had about an

31:58

SPF of about two. So

32:01

it really wasn't protecting very

32:03

well at all. I mean,

32:05

it's been. better than nothing,

32:07

right? But as more studies

32:09

came out connecting prolonged sun

32:12

exposure to skin cancer, dermatologists

32:14

started sounding the alarm bells,

32:16

and manufacturers began to catch

32:18

up with the research. In

32:20

the late 70s was the

32:23

first renal sunscreens, let's call

32:25

them, that had the SPFs

32:27

of probably eight to... 12

32:29

or so and SPF 50

32:31

really came out at the

32:34

middle of the 80s. SPF

32:36

30 came out probably in

32:38

the 90s. But what do

32:40

those numbers actually mean? So

32:42

sunscreens utilize a metric which

32:45

we call the SPF. If

32:47

you go into the drugstore

32:49

you can see you know

32:51

SPF 30 or 15 or

32:53

50 or 100 or whatever.

32:56

That's David E. He's chief

32:58

of the Massachusetts General Hospital

33:00

Department of Dermatology at Harvard

33:02

Medical School in Boston. SPF

33:04

is the measurement of how

33:07

well products block the burning

33:09

portion of the ultraviolet spectrum,

33:11

UVB rays. And I should

33:13

add, very clearly, that we

33:15

highly recommend people use high

33:18

SPF sunscreens to help protect

33:20

themselves from skin cancer, but...

33:22

We know that there's another

33:24

big portion of the UV

33:26

spectrum, which is the UVA

33:29

portion of the spectrum. So

33:31

there are three types of

33:33

UV radiation. UVA, UVB, and

33:35

UVC. The third doesn't quite

33:37

make it through our atmosphere,

33:40

so not much to worry

33:42

about there, but UVA rays

33:44

are just as important as

33:46

UVB rays. We don't actually

33:48

feel UVA rays because they

33:51

don't burn our skin. These

33:53

are often used in tanning

33:55

beds, but they can still

33:57

damage our skin and increase

33:59

our risk of developing skin

34:02

cancer. And the metric for

34:04

UVA at the moment... is

34:06

somewhat in disarray. In 2011,

34:08

the food and drug administration

34:10

mandated that sunscreens that pass

34:13

the FDA test for UVA

34:15

and UVM be labeled under

34:17

the umbrella term broad spectrum.

34:19

But how much UVA? Is

34:21

it UVA with an SPF

34:24

equivalent of one, ten, a

34:26

hundred, a thousand? And this

34:28

is particularly important for several

34:30

reasons. One is that well

34:32

over 90% of the UV

34:35

radiation from our sun is

34:37

UVA. Only a small percent,

34:39

single digits are UVM. Number

34:41

two, the UVA is much

34:43

less likely to give you

34:46

a sunburn. So if you're

34:48

getting tons of UVA exposure,

34:50

you won't know it. Because

34:52

sunburn is what usually alerts

34:54

people to get out of

34:57

the sun. The absence of

34:59

it could translate to feeling

35:01

safe, protected. In fact, there

35:03

has been a concern that

35:05

if you have a high

35:08

SPF UVB protection from existing

35:10

sunscreens and minimal UVA protection,

35:12

you actually have the paradox

35:14

that you're not going to

35:16

burn, you're sitting on the

35:19

beach, and you're baking away

35:21

getting tons of UVA, perhaps

35:23

even more UVA exposure than

35:25

you would have had if

35:27

you had had a burn.

35:30

Some researchers have attempted to

35:32

put a microscope on the

35:34

broad spectrum claims and sunscreen.

35:36

In 2021, a study by

35:38

the Environmental Working Group set

35:41

out to measure UVA protection

35:43

in 51 sunscreens in the

35:45

US. So we purchased the

35:47

products you would see at

35:49

Target, Walmart, Amazon. That's chemist

35:52

David Andrews. He's the lead

35:54

author of the study and

35:56

the acting chief science officer

35:58

for the organization. The

36:00

study examined mineral and chemical

36:02

sunscreens. Mineral sunscreen works by

36:05

acting as a barrier and

36:07

reflecting light away from the

36:09

skin. They usually contain at

36:11

least the active and naturally

36:13

occurring ingredient sink oxide, while

36:15

chemical sunscreen absorbs UV rays

36:17

and uses ingredients like oxybenzone.

36:19

And the products on the

36:21

U.S. market on average were

36:23

providing about one quarter the

36:25

UVA protection. as they were

36:27

to the UVB or SPF

36:29

protection. David notes that the

36:31

mineral sunscreens did better in

36:33

the study compared to the

36:35

chemical sunscreens, but he says

36:37

people don't usually use them,

36:39

often because they leave a

36:41

noticeably white cast on the

36:43

skin. The study also tested

36:45

the SPF claims in the

36:47

same sunscreens. And we found

36:50

on average products were only

36:52

providing half of the reduction

36:54

of UV light that you'd

36:56

expect for the SPF value

36:58

on the label. And there's

37:00

a couple reasons I think

37:02

for this. The biggest reason

37:04

is that there's an incredible

37:06

market incentive to have the

37:08

highest SPF value. That's what

37:10

consumers look for. And a

37:12

number of studies of consumer

37:14

preference have shown that's the

37:16

top. thing they're looking for

37:18

and purchasing a sunscreen. But

37:20

those products aren't providing the

37:22

protection they advertise. And that's

37:24

also leading to really this

37:26

false sense of security that

37:28

these higher SPF values bring.

37:30

All together, David says this

37:32

false sense of security is

37:34

a huge concern. but he

37:37

also says this could be

37:39

fixed if the right actions

37:41

are put into play. He

37:43

says there are newer ingredients

37:45

that better filter out UVA

37:47

and UVM race. For example,

37:49

in countries like France, South

37:51

Korea, and Japan, but in

37:53

the U.S., those ingredients can't

37:55

find their way to market

37:57

because of the required safety

37:59

testing. from FDA. In 1978,

38:01

the FDA began regulating sunscreen

38:04

as a drug and not

38:06

a cosmetic, sort of like

38:08

you're over-the-counter Tylenol. But the

38:11

ingredients we see in sunscreens

38:13

today were grandfathered in. It

38:16

was only new ingredients that

38:18

would have to be tested

38:20

and approved as safe. But

38:22

David says there is no

38:24

incentive for manufacturers to use

38:27

and test different ingredients. in

38:29

part because the market is still

38:31

available to them. They can continue

38:33

to sell their products and no

38:35

one is forcing them to do

38:37

the safety testing at this point.

38:39

And so we're really just stuck

38:41

in kind of the status

38:43

quo. The testing process can

38:45

also be costly for manufacturers

38:47

as well. Now there is

38:49

a window of hope, but

38:51

this window is more so

38:53

cracked than open. In 2019,

38:56

the FDA proposed manufacturers retest

38:58

current ingredients that were grandfathered

39:00

in, like Oxyben Zone, after

39:02

research showed some of these

39:04

chemicals may be harmful to

39:06

the environment and also to

39:08

its users. But the FDA

39:10

has yet to finalize those

39:12

rules. But if they did, it

39:14

would force really a complete overhaul

39:16

of the sunscreen market that would

39:18

force the additional safety testing for

39:21

ingredients on the market. It would

39:23

raise the bar for the UVA

39:25

standard, as well as make a

39:27

number of other important sunscreen changes.

39:30

Right now, the ingredients in

39:32

titanium dioxide and zinc oxide,

39:34

which are found in mineral

39:36

sunscreen, are considered safe by

39:38

the FDA. And David says,

39:40

that's the sunscreen the environmental

39:42

working group often recommends that

39:44

people use. And that's actually

39:46

what Annie Tomlin does. She's

39:49

the woman we heard from

39:51

at the beginning of the

39:53

story who was diagnosed with

39:55

skin cancer at 37. Annie

39:57

uses mineral sunscreen for her

39:59

body and chemical sunscreen for

40:01

her face, but she buys

40:04

that chemical sunscreen from another

40:06

country. South Korea makes incredible

40:08

sunscreens. They make sunscreens that

40:11

just feel lovely on your

40:13

skin. And as for applying

40:16

sunscreen and practicing sun safety

40:18

measures, Annie makes sure that

40:21

her husband and her kids

40:23

are all on the same

40:25

accord. I have two sons

40:28

and... When they were babies,

40:30

they wore very gentle baby

40:33

sunscreen and they wore all

40:35

these cute little long-sleeved rash

40:37

guards to the beach. And

40:40

I really treat sun protection

40:42

as something that they should

40:45

just learn how to do.

40:47

It really is just part

40:49

of their regular practice. There's

40:52

been a panic over black

40:54

plastic in your kitchen. People

40:57

looked at their plastic utensils

40:59

as if they were murderous

41:01

items. We look at the

41:04

findings of a viral study

41:06

about black plastic and what

41:09

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42:57

and Scott. We're talking about

42:59

exposures. And what happens when

43:01

we come in contact with

43:04

things that may be hazardous

43:06

to our health? Recently, I've

43:08

avoided using some utensils that

43:10

I have in my kitchen,

43:12

specifically a black plastic spatula

43:14

and a black plastic soup

43:16

ladle. That's because I heard

43:18

all of these terrifying news

43:20

reports about black plastic. It's

43:22

probably in your kitchen, in

43:24

toy bins and in the

43:26

bathroom. We're talking about black

43:28

plastic. A new report found

43:30

certain kitchen utensils and food

43:32

trays made from recycled black

43:34

plastic contained toxic chemicals. Experts

43:36

say you want to replace

43:38

your black utensils with silicone

43:41

ones, metal or wood. But

43:43

it turns out the findings

43:45

of the study that these

43:47

reports are based on contained

43:49

a pretty big error. Alan

43:51

Yu explains. Last October, The

43:53

Atlantic published a story with

43:55

a simple headline. Throw out

43:57

your black plastic spatula. Here's

43:59

the gist of the article.

44:01

and many others that followed.

44:03

Black plastic, if it's not

44:05

made from new materials, could

44:07

come from recycled electronic waste,

44:09

like old TVs, computers, keyboards,

44:11

and so on. Those products

44:13

contain flame retardants to prevent

44:16

them from catching fire. An

44:18

advocacy group called Toxic Free

44:20

Future tested consumer products like

44:22

sushi trays, children's toys, and

44:24

yes, spatulas for flame retardants

44:26

for flame retardants. They found

44:28

that these products do indeed

44:30

contain varying levels of flame

44:32

retardants, and that sparked a

44:34

panic. People looked at the

44:36

plastic utensils as if they

44:38

were murderous items. Chemist Joe

44:40

Schwartz is the director of

44:42

the Office for Science and

44:44

Society at McGill University in

44:46

Quebec. Which has the mandate

44:48

to separate sense from nonsense,

44:50

myth from fact. He has

44:53

taught a course on plastic

44:55

for many years. Joe read

44:57

this study that people were

44:59

frantically asking him about, and

45:01

he noticed a big problem.

45:03

The researchers measured how much

45:05

flame retardant was in black

45:07

plastic items and compared it

45:09

to what's called the reference

45:11

dose. The US Environmental Protection

45:13

Agency sets reference doses to

45:15

say how much of this

45:17

chemical can you be exposed

45:19

to before it becomes a

45:21

health problem. The researchers said

45:23

if you cook with black

45:25

plastic utensils, you could be

45:27

exposed to a level of

45:30

flame retardant that gets close

45:32

to the reference dose. And

45:34

it just seemed like they

45:36

had the wrong number of

45:38

zeros. When they calculated the

45:40

exposure to the flame retardants

45:42

in this plastic, they calculated

45:44

that the average exposure was

45:46

something like 37,000 nanograms and

45:48

they compared that to the

45:50

42,000 and they said that

45:52

it was close to the

45:54

limit. researchers got the limit

45:56

wrong. It is in fact

45:58

420,000. Of course it's not

46:00

close to the limit because

46:02

they're up by factor of

46:04

10. So Joe says don't

46:07

worry you are not at

46:09

risk of eating a level

46:11

of flame retardant that gets

46:13

dangerously close to the EPA's

46:15

reference dose. At least not

46:17

unless you're cooking with and

46:19

eating out of black plastic

46:21

containers 10 times a day.

46:23

I contacted Toxic Free Future

46:25

for this story weeks ago

46:27

and did not hear back.

46:29

They did publish an update

46:31

to the journal article. They

46:33

corrected the math error, but

46:35

say that it does not

46:37

change their conclusions. Now you

46:39

can just dismiss this as

46:41

a funny story that smug

46:44

math teachers can use as

46:46

a cautionary tale. When I

46:48

grew up and went to

46:50

school, it was before calculators

46:52

and then computers, and we

46:54

actually learned how to multiply

46:56

things in our head. But

46:58

Joe commends the researchers for

47:00

doing the study because they

47:02

identified a real problem. That

47:04

plastic should not be recycled

47:06

into items that come in

47:08

contact with food. Now, not

47:10

all black plastic containers or

47:12

utensils are made with recycled

47:14

plastic. But for those that

47:16

are, how does the black

47:18

plastic from electronics get into

47:21

the mix? Joe says when

47:23

recycling companies sort plastic waste,

47:25

they use infrared light to

47:27

separate out various kinds of

47:29

plastic. depending on how they

47:31

reflect the infrared light they're

47:33

detected and then a puff

47:35

of air blows them off

47:37

of the conveyor belt into

47:39

different bins. I mean it's

47:41

unbelievable technology when you see

47:43

this in action, but because

47:45

the black isn't detected it

47:47

just goes straight through and

47:49

it goes into the final

47:51

bin which ended up in

47:53

landfill. Black plastic inadvertently gets

47:55

sorted out of the recycling

47:58

stream. So if companies want

48:00

to make... and utensils out

48:02

of recycled black plastic, they have

48:04

to find a source. And this is

48:06

where electronic waste comes in.

48:08

Old phones, computers, TVs and

48:11

such get sorted in a

48:13

different process that separates many

48:15

kinds of materials, including

48:18

precious metals. And in

48:20

this process, black plastic

48:22

is saved. The problem is

48:24

that plastic from electronic

48:26

waste is not supposed to end

48:28

up in food containers and utensils.

48:31

That said, Joe says please do

48:33

not throw out all your black

48:35

plastic utensils because one, they're not

48:37

as dangerous as you might have

48:40

heard. And two, if you throw them away

48:42

to be dumped in a landfill,

48:44

that's not really great either. But

48:47

if you are thinking about buying

48:49

new kitchen utensils, then consider buying

48:52

ones made of steel or

48:54

wood. Of course we have to

48:56

minimize our use of plastics. In

48:58

this particular case, if this whole

49:00

story alerts people to being more

49:03

careful about what they use and

49:05

what they buy, then it will

49:07

have served a purpose. I also spoke

49:10

to Gideon Myrowitt's cat, an

49:12

epidemiologist in Australia. He wrote a

49:14

story for Slate with the headline,

49:16

I'm not throwing away my black

49:18

plastic spatula. All of my utensils

49:20

currently are black plastic, except for

49:23

the stainless steel ones that I

49:25

use on my stainless steel pan.

49:27

I'm happy to send photos to

49:29

anyone who doubts me. I can

49:31

post them online. He says the

49:33

other purpose this example can serve

49:35

is demonstrating how to

49:37

read scientific papers critically.

49:40

His issue with the paper, aside

49:42

from the math error, is how

49:44

the researchers measured the level of

49:47

flame retardant from cooking with black

49:49

plastic utensils. What they did to

49:51

simulate this in a lab is

49:53

boil plastic in oil for 15

49:55

minutes and then measure the amount

49:58

of chemicals in the oil. In

50:00

real cooking, you don't just

50:02

leave your cooking utensils inside

50:04

your oil for 15 minutes

50:07

if for no other reason

50:09

than they start to burn

50:11

and smoke and set fire

50:13

to your kitchen. But he

50:16

says this study does prompt

50:18

more questions about the manufacturing

50:20

process of black plastic that

50:22

another organization or government agency

50:25

could answer. It does seem

50:27

like they've identified a problem,

50:29

but we have no real

50:31

idea of how widespread the

50:33

problem is. He also says

50:36

this example illustrates the difficulty

50:38

of accurately discussing science in

50:40

a way that interests people

50:42

who are not scientists. There

50:45

is an inherent tension between

50:47

accurate representations of scientific research

50:49

and the news, the media,

50:51

because people... by definition are

50:54

only interested in new and

50:56

interesting news. That's what the

50:58

news is, right? But if

51:00

you communicate science with all

51:02

of the nuance, it's often

51:05

quite boring. Most studies add

51:07

a small piece to a

51:09

larger scientific question. It is

51:11

rare to have a true

51:14

scientific breakthrough. So it is

51:16

unrealistic to expect a constant

51:18

stream of paradigm-changing scientific research.

51:20

He says in his own

51:23

field of epidemiology, he suggests

51:25

that people think carefully about

51:27

whether a new finding actually

51:29

applies to them or not.

51:32

Epidemiological research is often interesting

51:34

to people like me, who

51:36

look at entire populations of

51:38

millions of people, but it's

51:40

often not as important to

51:43

the individual who's reading the

51:45

newspaper article or whatever. That

51:48

story was reported by Alan

51:50

Yu. That's our show for

51:52

this week. The Pulse is

51:54

a production of W.H.Y. in

51:56

Philadelphia, made possible with support

51:58

from our founding sponsor. the

52:00

Sutherland family and the Commonwealth

52:02

Fund. Our health and science

52:04

reporters are Alan Yu and

52:06

Liz Tong. Our intern is

52:08

Christina Brown. Charlie Kyer is

52:11

our engineer. Our producers are

52:13

Nicole Curry and Lindsay Lazarski.

52:15

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