0:01

Hello Puzzlers! Let's start with

0:03

a quick puzzle. What

0:05

do these three phrases have

0:07

in common? The Sahara Desert, the

0:10

Avon River, and

0:12

the La Brea Tar Pits. The

0:14

Sahara Desert, Avon River, and La

0:16

Brea Tar Pits. What do they have

0:18

in common? The answer and more

0:20

puzzling goodness after the break. You

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Just go to indeed.com slash

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A-R-T-S right now and support our

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show by saying you heard about

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Indeed on this podcast. Terms and

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conditions apply. is

1:18

all you need. I'm Soledad

1:20

O 'Brien, and on my new

1:22

True Crime podcast, Murder on the

1:25

Towpath, I'm taking you back to

1:27

1964 to the cold case of

1:29

artist Mary Pinchow -Meyer. She had been

1:31

shot twice in the head and

1:33

in the back. It turns

1:35

out Mary was connected to

1:38

a very powerful man. I

1:40

pledge you that we shall neither

1:42

commit nor promote aggression. John

1:44

F. Kennedy. Listen to Murder

1:46

on the Toe Path with Soledad

1:48

O 'Brien on the iHeart Radio

1:51

app, Apple Podcast, or wherever

1:53

you get your podcast. Hey,

1:59

it's Zuko and Kayla from The Wake Up Call. Enjoy

2:01

your podcast, and when you're done, don't forget

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to us online on the I Heart Radio app.

2:28

Hello, Puzzlers! Welcome back to

2:30

The Puzzler, the prominent bump

2:32

on your puzzle phranology skull. I'm

2:35

your host, AJ Jacobs. Before the

2:37

break, we asked, what do these

2:39

three phrases have in common? The

2:42

Sahara Desert, the Avon River, and

2:44

the La Brea Tar Pits. Well,

2:47

one answer is that they're

2:49

all geographical locations, but there is

2:51

something a little more specific,

2:53

and that is that they are

2:55

all redundant. They all

2:57

have words that mean the same

2:59

thing in different languages. So

3:01

Sahara means desert in Arabic. So

3:04

Sahara Desert translates

3:06

to desert -desert. Avon

3:08

is derived from a Celtic

3:10

word for river. So

3:12

that translates to river -river.

3:14

Avon River is river -river.

3:16

Same with Lebrea. Lebrea means

3:18

tar in Spanish. So

3:21

the Lebrea tar pits are

3:23

tar -tar pits. Interesting.

3:25

No? I think so. Anyway, I

3:28

have something else that's interesting. And

3:30

that is our guest. We

3:32

are very excited about our

3:34

guest, the great novelist, New

3:36

York Times writer and my

3:38

friend, Alex Strauss. Welcome, Alex.

3:40

Hey, James. So excited to

3:42

be here. I've got on

3:44

my smart hat. I'm really

3:46

I'm trying to be prepped

3:48

for this. You look

3:51

very smart and you're

3:53

wearing spectacles. So even higher

3:55

IQ. Alex is

3:57

an amazing writer. She writes

3:59

all sorts of things. She

4:01

writes about trends and profiles

4:03

for the New York Times.

4:05

She also wrote a wonderful

4:07

book called The Joy of

4:09

Funerals, which was about, well,

4:11

I guess you would be in

4:13

a better position to describe it. Sure.

4:16

They like to call it a novel

4:18

in stories, but it's about

4:20

eight short stories in the

4:22

beginning. And in each short story,

4:24

a death has happened. And

4:26

you move through these stories with

4:28

these amazing and interesting and

4:30

slightly crazy women. And then the

4:32

novella part of the Joy

4:34

of Funerals is about a funeral

4:36

attending Junkie, if you will. And

4:39

she goes to all the other funerals

4:41

you've just read about because she's desperate

4:43

to connect with people. And

4:45

really, I wrote this 20 years ago.

4:47

It was reissued recently in honor of

4:50

its 20th anniversary. Fascinatingly,

4:53

we are still in this moment

4:55

of need for connection. And

4:57

now we've just been given

4:59

permission to talk about grief and

5:01

our loneliness and all of

5:03

these things that were really taboo

5:05

20 years ago. So the

5:07

reissue has been a really fascinating

5:09

ride. I love it.

5:11

The resurrection. And we will

5:14

talk more about that. We're going

5:16

to do the puzzle and

5:18

then we're going to come back

5:20

and talk about puzzles and

5:22

death. but not in a morbid

5:24

way. Maybe a little morbid.

5:26

All right. So first, the puzzle.

5:28

And of course, we felt

5:30

it only appropriate to do a

5:32

puzzle themed to funerals. So

5:34

this one is called,

5:37

you know, the the words

5:39

on tombstones, the epitaphs,

5:41

as they're called. There have

5:43

been some great epitaphs

5:45

of real people, real

5:47

things that appeared on their tombstone. Mel

5:50

blank. had Vaxall

5:52

folks, so that was the

5:55

voice of Porky Pig, and that's

5:57

on his tombstone. Merv Griffin,

5:59

the TV host and producer,

6:01

wrote, I will not be

6:03

right back after this message.

6:05

That's genius. Yeah, he's

6:07

a good people. Billy

6:10

Wilder, the director, had,

6:14

I'm a writer, but then nobody's

6:16

perfect. which was a reference

6:18

to the famous last line of

6:20

his movie that he directed,

6:22

Some Like It Hot, when

6:24

Tony Curtis takes off his

6:26

wig and reveals he's a man

6:28

and the suitor says, well,

6:30

nobody's perfect. So there

6:32

you go. It's a place

6:35

for people to make

6:37

jokes if they see fit,

6:39

make references. So we

6:41

have a puzzle here that

6:44

is not about real

6:46

epitaphs. It is about fictional

6:48

epitaphs from fictional people.

6:50

So if these fictional characters

6:52

die, this might be what

6:55

appears. So I'm going to give you the epitaph,

6:57

and then you have to guess the fictional

6:59

character. Okay, I'm ready. I'm up for this. I'm

7:01

totally up for this. All right, here we

7:03

go. Here we go. And I'm here for hints.

7:06

Whose headstone might read?

7:09

You elegizing me? You

7:12

elegizing me? I

7:15

guess that is the Robert De

7:17

Niro character in, uh, right? Yes, you

7:19

got it. Your guess is correct.

7:21

I don't, um... It was, I actually...

7:23

Yeah, I'm trying to think of

7:25

what movie that was. It was Taxi

7:27

Driver. Oh, yes, Taxi Driver. That

7:29

with Jody Foster. That was a great

7:32

film. Exactly. All right, we're

7:34

gonna stick with that era of movies, and

7:36

I'm gonna give you this one. I'm

7:38

lying in here. I'm lying

7:40

here. That was also,

7:42

um... It's a movie I don't even think

7:44

I saw, but I'll tell you who the

7:46

actor is. It's Dustin Hoffman. It is. But

7:50

what's the movie? Midnight

7:52

Cowboy. Oh, Midnight Cowboy, right? Ratso

7:54

Rizzo. It is a very bizarre

7:56

movie. So you haven't seen it?

7:58

I have not seen Midnight Cowboy.

8:00

You don't it? And I mean,

8:02

I gotta tell you, I haven't

8:04

seen Taxi Driver in easily two

8:06

or three decades. Well,

8:08

there you remembered it. That's all that

8:10

matters, I think. How about

8:12

this one? Who might

8:14

have said this on their

8:16

headstone? St. Peter, I

8:19

think this is the beginning of

8:21

a beautiful friendship. Oh

8:23

my God, AJ, where are

8:25

the movies from recently? I'll

8:30

take a clue. Oh, all

8:32

right. Well, let me think. There would be...

8:35

This was, it was the last line

8:37

of one of the most famous movies

8:40

ever. So I don't know if that's

8:42

Casablanca. I don't know if that's... It

8:44

is Casablanca. It is. Okay, I would

8:46

like a movie from the last decade.

8:48

Is that possible? You know, that's

8:50

a movie that was made before

8:52

I was born. So I really think

8:54

we're pushing the envelope here. I

8:56

realize we're Gen Xers, but really. Well,

8:58

I think the problem is it

9:00

has to be an incredibly famous line

9:03

or else. And that was Humphrey

9:05

Bogart, right? Yeah, exactly. Humphrey

9:07

Bogart as Rick Blaine in

9:09

Casablanca. He's walking off with the

9:11

head police officer played by

9:13

Peter Laurie and said this is

9:15

the beginning of a beautiful

9:17

friendship. All right, well, what about

9:19

this? Here lies

9:21

Johnny. So

9:24

that was the shining and that

9:26

was Yes, I'm trying to

9:28

think of the character's names though.

9:30

That's what's so difficult. It's

9:32

Jack Nicholson, but I'm trying to

9:35

think of what the character's

9:37

name was Well, the same first

9:39

name as Jack Jack Jack. think

9:42

thank goodness. I've gotten Jack Jack Torrance.

9:44

Yeah, I didn't remember the full name

9:46

either All right. Well, what about this

9:48

one? This one is this one is

9:50

brand spanking new. Are you ready? There's

9:54

no place like an urn. There's no

9:56

place like an urn. Okay. At least that's

9:58

Judy Garland in the Wizard of Oz.

10:00

And I think her name was Dorothy Gale.

10:03

Nice. I wouldn't have gotten the

10:05

hmm. I wonder if there's some

10:07

word play on Gale and wind

10:09

and tornado and twist. I'm sure

10:11

there was considering she was hallucinating

10:13

everything supposedly. It's one large acid

10:15

trip. Well, you did

10:17

fantastic, even though it was

10:19

not current movies. I'm

10:21

sorry. That's okay. But

10:24

you nailed it. All right, so

10:26

we'll have an extra credit. Was that

10:28

a nail in my coffin, so

10:30

speak? Nice. There you go. You and

10:33

the Wizard of Oz screenwriters and

10:35

the word play. I'm

10:38

Soledad O 'Brien, and

10:40

on my podcast, Murder on the

10:43

Towpath, I'm taking you back

10:45

to the 1960s. Mary Pinchow -Meyer

10:47

was a painter who lived in

10:49

Georgetown in Washington, D .C. Every

10:51

day, she took a daily walk

10:53

along the towpath near the E &O

10:55

Canal. So when she was

10:57

killed in a wealthy neighborhood,

10:59

she had been shot twice in

11:01

the head and in the

11:03

back behind the heart. The police

11:05

arrived in a heartbeat. Within

11:08

40 minutes, a man named Raymond

11:10

Crump Jr. was arrested. He

11:12

was found nearby, soaking wet,

11:14

and he was black. Only

11:17

one woman dared defend

11:19

him. Civil rights lawyer,

11:21

W. Roundtree. Join

11:23

me as we unravel this

11:25

story with a crazy twist,

11:27

because what most people didn't

11:29

know is that Mary was

11:31

connected to a very powerful

11:33

man. I pledge you that

11:35

we shall neither commit nor

11:37

provoke aggression. John F.

11:39

Kennedy. Listen to Murder

11:42

on the Topat with Soledad O

11:44

'Brien on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

11:46

podcasts, or wherever you get

11:48

your podcasts. We'll

11:51

return to your podcast in a moment.

11:54

This is Dave Kalan, Jimmy Jam, and

11:56

Kelsey Webb for us. Yep, you have

11:58

to listen to us. We have a

12:00

radio show on WNCI 97 .9, and

12:02

you must listen or we will steal

12:04

your car. Only if it's a

12:06

Kia. Hey, someone stole my

12:08

daughter's Kia show. Oh, sorry. Hurry

12:11

up, they want to get back to the podcast.

12:13

Yeah, just listen to our show every weekday morning on

12:15

WNCI. And you can also listen on the iHeart

12:17

app at Dave and Jimmy. We're not going to steal

12:19

your car. We'll

12:24

do an extra credit

12:26

in a moment, but I

12:28

want to talk about

12:30

you and your book and

12:32

funerals and puzzles. So

12:34

first of all, what got you

12:36

interested in funerals in the first

12:38

place? So I

12:40

am the only only child ever in

12:42

my family so as far back

12:44

as you could trace Everybody has had

12:46

more than one child except my

12:49

parents who decided to just have me

12:51

they could have had many I'm

12:53

not even sure they had me I

12:55

I really do believe my mother

12:57

went shopping at the hospital I think

12:59

she saw people leaning into a

13:01

window and said I'll take that one

13:04

so There's not one picture of

13:06

my mother pregnant either. So it's just

13:08

one large mystery And I don't

13:10

really think I'm like either of my

13:12

parents. So who knows? I mean,

13:14

that's just the big who knows. But

13:16

I didn't have a lot of

13:19

family and we weren't invited to the

13:21

happier occasions like weddings and bar

13:23

mitzvahs and anniversary parties and reunions. But

13:25

we were invited to the funerals

13:27

because everybody deserves a chance to say

13:29

goodbye. And so I

13:31

learned that To me, a

13:33

funeral is like a reunion.

13:35

And when you're young, you

13:38

really don't know. I just knew

13:40

that I was meeting people that

13:42

I was connected to that I

13:44

hadn't met before. And there's this

13:46

incredible sense of belonging that happens,

13:49

I think, at funerals, where it's

13:51

a connective moment. We're all grieving

13:53

and honoring the same person at

13:55

the same time, even if we

13:57

don't really know each other. And

14:00

I found them fascinating.

14:03

wonderfully fascinating. And

14:05

usually it was a great aunt

14:07

Edna who's 104. She lived

14:10

a very long life. It's

14:12

very different now. I think COVID

14:14

made everything different and the way the

14:16

world is right now. Funerals are

14:18

certainly different. But at the end of

14:20

the day, you are still honoring

14:23

someone and celebrating someone's life. And

14:25

you are there for this bonding

14:27

moment. I think we're desperate for

14:29

a bonding moment. And I think

14:31

that began my Fascination and in

14:33

some sense my fixation with funerals.

14:35

Yeah, look and did you like

14:37

the main character in your book?

14:39

Did you go to strangers funerals?

14:41

No, I really have to say

14:43

I have never been to a

14:45

funeral. I was not either

14:48

invited to or that I knew

14:50

the person. I have never been to

14:52

a stranger's funeral. I mean, you

14:54

can only do Meisner so far into

14:56

the pathology of your characters. I

14:59

have gone to certain cemeteries.

15:01

I have laid down next to

15:03

a grave site and felt

15:05

the dirt and the earth. And

15:07

there's one character who goes

15:09

to the cemetery over and over

15:12

again for reasons I'll let

15:14

the reader find out. But there

15:16

was a lot of tactile

15:18

experiences, but going to... I didn't

15:20

think that was right. I

15:22

really never went to a funeral.

15:24

And I had a really

15:26

good understanding for Nina. Yeah.

15:29

Well, speaking of cemeteries,

15:31

let's talk epitaphs, since

15:33

that was the puzzle's

15:35

topic. So, in

15:37

your research on funerals, what

15:39

have you found about epitaphs?

15:41

So they're two, this is

15:43

so, yeah, best appetite. I

15:46

love a good paladrome, and I

15:48

think that they're their own puzzle,

15:50

so to speak. Sure. And Anne

15:52

Sexton, she had on hers, rats

15:55

live on no evil

15:57

star. No way. And

15:59

the same red forward as it

16:01

is backwards. Wow, that

16:04

is fascinating. so actually one of

16:06

my favorite appetites. That's a perfect one,

16:08

and it's and it's a crossover

16:10

with any other puzzly epitaphs you've run

16:12

across? Yes, so recently I think

16:14

you and I just discovered this fellow

16:16

Samuel Bean who created what they

16:18

say is an infuriating code and it

16:20

took over a hundred years to

16:22

solve. Yeah. About his two wives, which

16:25

is really, and he put them

16:27

on the same advocate. I mean, it's

16:29

the same headstone, which I think

16:31

I would be offended if I was

16:33

wife number one and number two.

16:35

I'd be like, move over, I want

16:37

my own headstone. That's true. That

16:40

is, I've never heard of this

16:42

until you told me about it.

16:44

It is a Dr. Bean and

16:46

he died in 1904 and his

16:49

headstone is basically a word search

16:51

puzzle, a very tricky

16:53

word search puzzle. And as you

16:55

say, Yes,

16:57

Henrietta and I think Susanna,

16:59

they're both side by side.

17:02

And I think between the two women, you

17:05

have to figure out what the code

17:07

is. And there is one in there. I

17:09

mean, it took them a while to

17:11

do it, but people have done it. It's

17:13

kind of fascinating. Amazing. All

17:16

right, so then we've got,

17:18

I mean, we were talking earlier,

17:20

you mentioned that Writing

17:23

an elegy is a puzzle. There

17:25

are so many puzzles, metaphorical puzzles,

17:27

when it comes to death. So what

17:29

do you got? What are the

17:31

big puzzles around this topic? I

17:33

think life itself is a big puzzle

17:35

and how you figure out maneuvering

17:38

through the world. And I also Well,

17:40

that's our motto here at The Puzzler. Life is a

17:42

puzzle. Life is a puzzle. Well,

17:44

unofficial motto. Yeah. Okay. Are we going to get

17:46

that on t -shirts? If you

17:48

make them. They will come. I

17:52

would love like a good

17:54

scavenger hunt funeral where you get

17:56

a clue at each spot

17:58

and you have to put together

18:00

like I think everybody should

18:02

leave surprise notes. I would also

18:04

love to leave things around

18:06

my house for somebody to find

18:08

when you know they go

18:10

through your stuff after you've passed

18:12

away and then you start

18:14

putting these pieces of your

18:16

life together. That's such a good idea.

18:18

By the way, speaking of you,

18:20

what do you want on your epitaph?

18:22

This is such a good question.

18:24

I was trying to think about this

18:27

because I knew you'd be asking

18:29

it. You know that song

18:31

you get knocked down, but you

18:33

get up again? Sure. I would. I

18:35

really think that I'm that person

18:37

where I got knocked down so many

18:39

times, but I got up and

18:41

I think when you're when you're ahead

18:43

of the game, too, or early

18:45

to market, no one listens. So

18:48

I think they would have to

18:50

put something on my headstone that

18:52

says, boy, was she right about

18:54

so many things and none of

18:56

us listened. I like it,

18:58

such as I told you so, basically. It

19:00

would be a last, it would be, you

19:02

know, it's important to have that last word

19:04

just a little bit. Yeah,

19:07

I think that's, I think so.

19:09

They're also grave talkers now. What's

19:11

that? They go to

19:13

people's graves that they don't know. They

19:15

look at the headstones that have

19:18

recipes on them, and they make the

19:20

recipe that is on some random

19:22

headstone, and then they eat the meal

19:24

with the person whose headstone they

19:26

were visiting. It's a whole thing. What?

19:28

Well, there's many things. First of

19:30

all, I had no idea that headstones

19:33

did have recipes. Is that, that's

19:35

a thing? Yes, it's a

19:37

whole, there's a whole subculture. There's a

19:39

whole death movement. I mean, There's

19:41

death curious, and then you

19:43

can be death positive. There's

19:45

a whole new subculture in

19:47

the way we are looking

19:49

at death, exploring death, our

19:51

own death. It

19:53

is not a morbid subject anymore, and

19:56

it's something we're all gonna have to

19:58

face. So we might as well at

20:00

least be prepared for it, as prepared as we

20:02

can get. Right. If you had

20:04

a recipe on your headstone, what would

20:06

that recipe be? I don't know

20:08

if I would... a life recipe. I

20:10

don't know if it would be for

20:12

something like Rice Krispie Treats, because they're

20:14

easy to make. You're always

20:16

thinking of the others. You know

20:18

what? Thank you for saying, AJ. I

20:21

really think I would do a recipe,

20:23

maybe, with a puzzle in it, because

20:25

I do think people would have to

20:27

work hard for it. My whole life,

20:29

I'm going to make people work hard.

20:32

So I would absolutely... I'd also want

20:34

to hide something near you know, like

20:36

in a box, you know, we have

20:38

to dig it up and, and then

20:40

bury it back for other people to,

20:42

to find. But I, you know, remember

20:44

when those, um, geo things were really

20:46

big for the summer? Yes,

20:49

I would like to do that.

20:51

Great idea. and your kids did that,

20:53

right? Yeah. Well, I look, I

20:55

mean, first of all, you are an

20:57

entertainer even after your death. You

20:59

are still the afterlife. You are making

21:02

people, uh, giving them enjoyment. So. More

21:04

kudos to you. Well,

21:07

this has been fantastic.

21:09

Thank you, Alex. author

21:11

of Joy of Funerals and

21:13

many other wonderful works. Thank you

21:15

for having me. And

21:17

we should talk about your book that

21:19

you're currently on tour with, which

21:21

is really wonderful at a time that

21:24

we could use a little humor

21:26

around what's happening politically and constitutionally. So

21:28

just say. You are very kind. It's

21:31

really a good read and I'm

21:33

always so impressed by everything that you're

21:35

doing and how your mind works

21:37

and that you get up at five

21:39

a .m. got I don't know how

21:41

you do I mean like it

21:43

was you know Ben Franklin is long

21:45

gone so you have no one

21:47

to compete with too early it's too

21:50

early wait I think Ben Franklin

21:52

had a great appetite because that's so

21:54

Ben Franklin it's all a pun

21:56

he wrote the body of Ben Franklin

21:58

printer so he's very proud of

22:00

being a printer said like the cover

22:02

of an old book it's contents

22:04

torn out Lies here food

22:06

for worms, but the work shall not

22:08

be lost. It will appear in

22:10

a new and more elegant edition Improved

22:12

by the author who I guess

22:14

is God. So there you go. Well,

22:16

that was heavy. I thought he

22:18

was just gonna say leave the lights

22:20

on Wasn't he the one who

22:22

did electricity? He did he did. Okay,

22:24

so I think that's smart Yeah,

22:26

we have the lights on well you

22:29

punched them up you've got nicely

22:31

done. All right, so for the extra

22:33

credit for the folks at home What

22:37

fictional character has this

22:39

epitaph? I'm just a

22:41

girl lying six feet under a

22:43

boy asking if he'd leave some

22:45

flowers. And with that,

22:47

I will say goodbye and puzzlers,

22:50

please don't forget to come back

22:52

tomorrow and subscribe to the Puzzler

22:54

Podcast and we'll meet you for

22:56

more puzzling puzzles that will puzzle

22:58

you puzzlingly. Hey

23:04

Puzzlers, it's Greg Pliska here with

23:06

the extra credit answer from our previous

23:08

episode. Gretchen Rubin joined AJ to

23:10

play a game called Eat Great. We

23:13

gave clues to a pair of words where

23:15

the second word is the same as the first

23:17

but with two extra letters in the front. The

23:20

extra credit was this. The plot

23:22

is complicated. You have

23:24

to blank the book carefully or

23:26

you will lose the blank. The

23:29

answer is read and thread. You have to

23:31

read the book carefully or you will lose

23:33

the thread. But here at the Puzzle, you

23:35

never lose the thread because you're so clever

23:37

and you love playing along with this and

23:39

we love having you and we will catch

23:41

you here next time for some more puzzling

23:43

puzzles. You

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Indeed on this podcast. Terms and

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conditions apply. I'm

25:22

in terms of life. It's the Breakfast

25:25

Club. The world's most dangerous

25:27

morning show. Hey! Angela E. is

25:29

kind of like the big sister that

25:31

always picks in the boy. That's not

25:33

how it goes. That's not how anything

25:35

goes. Yeah, me's really like a... What

25:44

is wrong with you?