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Texas. The athletic. Hello

2:45

and welcome back to And Coloscely,

2:47

that's history, the podcast that reappraises

2:50

motor racing history. I'm Richard Williams

2:52

and I'm joined as ever by

2:54

Matt Bishop. And Matt, I've been

2:56

excited about this episode for a

2:59

while because it's about one of

3:01

my favourites. One of your favourites,

3:03

yes, and one of mine too,

3:05

actually. That's right, in this episode

3:07

we'll be looking at the life

3:10

and career of the great Jim

3:12

Clark. and we'll be asking in

3:14

particular whether he's not only the

3:16

greatest but also the quickest driver

3:18

ever to have lived. That's rather

3:21

a bold claim I know and

3:23

of course it's impossible to prove

3:25

but over the course of this

3:27

episode we hope we'll lift the

3:29

lid especially for those less familiar

3:32

with Clark younger listeners perhaps on

3:34

what made him such a rare

3:36

and special talent. Indeed we will.

3:38

And I'd like to start, if

3:41

you'll indulge me, with a bit

3:43

of personal recollection. Go ahead. Thank

3:45

you, Matt. I first saw Jim

3:47

Clark on Easter Monday in 1959

3:49

at Mallory Park in Leicestershire. He

3:52

was 23 years old and he'd

3:54

come down to the meeting from

3:56

Scotland, a complete unknown outside the

3:58

world of club racing. I was

4:00

12 and it was my first

4:03

motor race. My dad had decided

4:05

to take us for a bank

4:07

holiday family outing. My mom, my

4:09

sister and me. Mallory was only

4:12

about 25 miles from where we

4:14

lived over the border in Nottinghamshire

4:16

and he drove us there in

4:18

his blue 1936 Rover 14 Sportsman

4:20

saloon. A lovely car. Absolutely lovely

4:23

car. Mallory was actually a former

4:25

pony trotting track, but it was

4:27

open for motorsport in 1956. It

4:29

was only a mile and a

4:32

quarter long, but it had some

4:34

very interesting and quite challenging features.

4:36

I was already extremely interested in

4:39

cars and racing. My hero at

4:41

the time was Sterling Moss, of

4:44

course. And so, to a degree,

4:46

was my dad. His dream car

4:48

was an Aston Martin DB3. Not

4:51

the sort of thing he was

4:53

ever likely to afford on the

4:56

income of a country parson, which

4:58

is what he was. More's the

5:00

pity that he was a country

5:03

parson. Clarified. Anyway, the key thing

5:05

about that particular Easter Monday meeting

5:07

was that the unknown Youngscot won

5:10

four races, three in a list

5:12

of Jaguar and one in a

5:14

Lotus Elite. They were two very

5:17

different cars, of course, a big

5:19

brutal sports car with a 3.4

5:21

litres engine and a nimble lightweight

5:24

1,200 C. Jim won the production

5:26

car race in the elite and

5:28

the other three wins came in

5:30

the Lister. One was in a race

5:33

for big sports cars and then there

5:35

was a heat and the final of

5:37

the Formula Libra event in which anyone

5:40

could enter anything. And he found himself

5:42

racing against Old Formula One Connorts, New

5:44

Formula Two Coopers, a January D-type and

5:47

Aston DB-3S and a few Lotus 11

5:49

sports cars. Imagine what that field would

5:51

cost you now if you were trying

5:53

by it. Extra by it. Extraordinary. Anyway,

5:56

he was totally dominant all day and

5:58

it was extremely thrilling. to watch him

6:00

in particular, chucking the lister through Devil's

6:03

elbow, which is a tricky downhill section

6:05

of the circuit, between the hairpin and

6:07

the finishing straight. My dad bought a

6:10

program and he and I filled in

6:12

all the results. I've still got it

6:14

actually and I'm waving it at you

6:17

now. I see it. And I remember

6:19

telling my dad that night, with all

6:21

the absolute certainty, a 12-year-old can muster,

6:24

that Jim Clark, although we'd never heard

6:26

of him, would be world champion one

6:28

day. Those are absolutely wonderful memories, Richard,

6:30

and very prescient of you to pick

6:33

out Jim Clark so early. Always did

6:35

have a knife at time. Yes, there

6:37

you are. And I envy you being

6:40

there that day. I mean, golden memories.

6:42

Those golden memories of yours remind me

6:44

of a formative Jim Clark experience for

6:47

my friend Peter Windsor whose name regular

6:49

listeners might recognise from our last episode

6:51

about Williams' 1986 season and Frank Williams'

6:54

accident. Anyway, in 1986, the year of

6:56

that accident, Peter was the Williams Formula

6:58

One team's Combs and PR man. But

7:01

he was and is also a journalist,

7:03

a very fine one actually, and he's

7:05

probably the biggest Jim Clark fan there's

7:08

ever been. Peter is an Englishman, born

7:10

in England in 1952, sorry Peter, but

7:12

it's true, but his family emigrated to

7:14

Australia when he was very young. about

7:17

four, I think, about four years old.

7:19

The Windsor's lived in Sydney, and Peter's

7:21

father took him to watch motor racing

7:24

at Warwick Farm, a few times. Warwick

7:26

Farm is in Sydney's Southwestern suburbs. And

7:28

in 1965, 12-year-old Peter saw Jim Clark

7:31

win a Tasman series race there in

7:33

a Lotus 32B. If you ask Peter

7:35

about that race now, he can speak

7:38

for an hour about it, or more.

7:40

notes. And if

7:42

you were to transcribe

7:45

what he'd said,

7:47

what you'd end up

7:49

with would be

7:52

an accurate, comprehensive and

7:54

lyrical race report.

7:56

Peter remembers everything about

7:59

Clark. Absolutely everything.

8:01

It's funny, isn't it?

8:03

Nice coincidence that

8:05

although Peter and I

8:08

first saw Clark

8:10

in different years, we

8:12

were both 12

8:15

years old at the

8:17

time when we

8:19

were absolutely captivated. Isn't

8:22

that interesting? Impressionable

8:25

age. He should be doing this

8:27

podcast instead of me, really. But anyway,

8:29

then in early 1967, when

8:31

Peter was 14, he went

8:33

to Kingsford Smith Airport in

8:35

Sydney to watch Clark's plane

8:38

take off and begin its

8:40

flight back to the UK

8:42

after the last race of

8:44

that year's Tasman series. And

8:46

after the passengers had all

8:49

boarded, Peter hung around, watching

8:51

the plane out of the

8:53

window. Soon, to his surprise,

8:55

he saw it stop taxiing

8:57

away, then begin to taxi

8:59

back to the gate. He waited, and

9:01

sure enough, after a while, the

9:03

passengers began to walk out of the

9:05

plane and back into the airport.

9:07

The flight had been delayed. Peter

9:10

approached Clark for an autograph

9:12

nervously. Remember, he's only 14

9:14

years old. And the great

9:16

man said, plane's been delayed,

9:18

son. Come and have a cup of coffee. So

9:21

Peter was thrilled, of course. And he asked

9:23

Clark all sorts of questions, an

9:28

avid 14 -year -old fan would

9:30

ask of his hero. And

9:32

Peter says that Clark answered

9:34

them all, patiently and attentively.

9:37

And then, of course, it was time

9:39

for him to re -board his flight. And

9:41

Peter has worshipped Clark ever since. Well,

9:43

no wonder. No wonder. I mean, it's

9:45

a nice story. And I could tell

9:48

you 100 stories about Peter's devotion to

9:50

his hero. He really should write a

9:52

book about him, and I hope he

9:54

does. Anyway, I won't tell you 100

9:56

stories, but I will tell you two

9:58

more very short stories about... Peter and

10:00

Jimmy as he always calls him

10:03

as though he were a much

10:05

missed uncle. The first story is

10:07

that I remember about 25 years

10:10

ago Peter bought himself a Porsche

10:12

boxer. It's very proud of it,

10:14

very nice car and it was

10:17

pale blue and I said to

10:19

him when I saw it nice

10:21

color, nice pale blue. He

10:23

replied powder blue. not pale

10:26

blue, powder blue, the same

10:28

shade as Jimmy's Dunlop overalls

10:30

at Warwick Farm in 1965.

10:33

That's pure veto. And the

10:35

second story is that Peter

10:38

always calls me Matti, not

10:40

Matt, which no one else does.

10:42

And I often wondered why.

10:44

Then I worked it out.

10:46

It's because Jim Clark had

10:49

four sisters. Betty... Isabelle, Susan

10:51

and Matty. And that's pure

10:53

Peter too. Sentimental old thing.

10:56

Doesn't Peter actually own one

10:58

of Jim's Lotus road cars?

11:00

He does. Yes indeed he

11:02

does. He owns Clark's 1967,

11:05

Ilan, Lotus Ilan, S3, fixed

11:07

head coupe to be precise,

11:09

yellow, absolutely lovely car. Well,

11:11

that's a proper fan for

11:14

you, no question. No question.

11:16

So I guess we should start

11:18

to explain why James Clark, Jim

11:20

to the outside world, and Jimmy

11:22

to his friends and Peter Windsor,

11:25

inspired such a devoted following in

11:27

the first place. And actually, had

11:29

his parents got their way, he

11:31

might never have been a famous

11:33

racing driver at all. He was

11:36

born in 1936 into a farming

11:38

family, first in five, and then

11:40

when he was four, they took

11:42

over the Eddington-Mains farm near Dunns

11:44

in Berrickshire, in the beautiful Scottish

11:46

borders. 1,200 acres of land, mostly

11:49

for grazing sheep and cattle. Indeed,

11:51

and young Jimmy started driving the

11:53

tractor on the farm as soon

11:55

as his feet could reach the

11:57

pedals at the age of 10.

11:59

For six pence an hour, by the

12:02

way, he loved it. He couldn't get

12:04

enough of it. Six old pence, that

12:06

would be it. Yes, two and a

12:08

half p. It is, actually. So six

12:10

old pence an hour. A tanner, we

12:12

used to call him, didn't we? We

12:14

did. Yeah, he loved it. He couldn't

12:16

get enough of it and he was

12:18

he was always hankering to get behind

12:20

the wheel of that tractor and it

12:22

certainly wasn't for the tanner, it wasn't

12:24

for the money. It was because he

12:26

loved the feeling of controlling a vehicle,

12:28

even at 10. Yep, he was the

12:30

youngest of five children and the

12:33

only boy and he was sent

12:35

away to school, first to prep

12:37

school in Edinburgh, one of Scotland's

12:40

best schools. And there, according to

12:42

one of his biographers, Eric Dimmock,

12:44

the days began with a cold

12:47

bath in a run and ended

12:49

with a Bible reading. Not luxury.

12:51

No. He wasn't very interested in

12:54

formal education, although he enjoyed sport

12:56

at the school of rugby, cricket,

12:58

tennis and hockey. and in the

13:00

school holidays his father took him

13:03

to the local livestock sales and

13:05

grain markets on the assumption clearly

13:07

that one day he'd take over

13:09

the running of the farm being

13:11

the only boy. Exactly. So when

13:13

he didn't show much interest in

13:15

academic learning his father took him

13:17

out of school at 16 and

13:19

he began working on the farm

13:21

at first as a shepherd. and

13:23

this is a pretty decisive, but

13:25

his father always had interesting cars,

13:27

including a pre-war Elvis Speed 12,

13:29

and Jim had started buying motoring

13:32

magazines when he was still at

13:34

school, and then his oldest sister's

13:36

new husband turned out to have

13:39

an old three-liter Bentley of the

13:41

sort that won at LaMois in

13:43

the 1920s. And sometime in the

13:45

early 50s Jim was taken down

13:48

to Brandshatch to watch his first

13:50

motor race and he remembered coming

13:52

away with an autographed photo of

13:55

Stirling Moss. That's interesting and actually

13:57

occasionally young Jimmy used to jump

13:59

into. his dad's alvis and take it

14:01

for a spin around the farm.

14:03

He started doing that when he was

14:05

10 years old as well, again

14:08

because at last he could reach the

14:10

pedals. But he could only reach

14:12

the pedals by sliding forward on the

14:14

seat, which meant that his head

14:16

dipped below the window line. So every

14:18

now and then, in order to

14:20

do that, he'd have to slide back

14:22

up the seat to have a

14:24

look at where he was going. And

14:27

neighbors were sometimes shocked to see

14:29

an apparently empty alvis running around the

14:31

farm as though driven by an

14:33

invisible ghost, because of course young Jimmy

14:35

was invisible to the onlookers when

14:37

he was in the slid forward to

14:39

reach the pedals position. The benefits

14:41

of growing up on a farm, I

14:43

think where you can get away

14:45

with that kind of thing. Yes, yes.

14:48

Near the farm, there was a

14:50

circuit called Winfield on an old aerodrome.

14:52

And it was so near that

14:54

Jim could cycle over. And he used

14:56

to go over to watch the

14:58

Acurea cost team test the jaguars that

15:00

they were racing at Le Mans.

15:02

And in 1953, he also went to

15:04

Charter Hall, another Scottish airfield circuit,

15:07

to see Nino Farina, the first world

15:09

champion in 1950, compete in the

15:11

Thinwall special Ferrari. That's a thing to

15:13

have seen, isn't It is. Farina

15:15

in a Thinwall. Yeah, exactly. So he

15:17

was getting hooked, not unsurprisingly. And

15:19

the more so after he passed his

15:21

driving test at 17, and he

15:23

was given his father's Sunbeam Talbot, quite

15:25

a sporty car with only 12 ,000

15:28

miles on the clock, which his

15:30

dad had replaced with a Rover. And

15:32

Jim had made friends with a

15:34

local garage owner called Jock McBain, who

15:36

helped him straight away as a

15:38

teenager enter various local competitions driving tests

15:40

and rallies and even autocross. But

15:42

he was still training as a shepherd

15:44

and his parents weren't at all

15:47

keen on his racing activities. His dad

15:49

was an elder in the local

15:51

Presbyterian church and he was pretty straight

15:53

laced. They'd banned him from owning

15:55

a motorbike, although of course they didn't

15:57

discourage his interest in tractors. No. And

16:00

it was actually at a meeting

16:02

of the local branch of the

16:04

Young Farmers Club that he met

16:06

another important figure in his career.

16:08

This was a chap called Ian

16:10

Scott Watson, who was involved with

16:12

Jock McBaine in a team called

16:15

Border Reavers, Border Raiders, that means,

16:17

a kind of rival to Echrier

16:19

Coss. He and Jim started competing

16:21

in rallies together. But one day

16:23

in 1956 they went up to

16:25

an actual race meeting at Cremmond

16:27

in Aberdeenshire, yet another old airfield.

16:29

I should actually mention that

16:31

Peter Windsor once bought an

16:33

ex-eans Scott Watson Lodicellan as

16:35

well, on the basis that

16:37

Jimmy had once driven it.

16:40

Sorry, gobsmacked. Anyway, when they

16:42

went up to Cremen, they

16:44

were in Scott Watson's DKW,

16:46

an unusual German saloon, I

16:48

don't know if you remember

16:50

them, with a three-cylinder two-stroke

16:52

engine and front-wheel drive. They

16:54

both practiced in the car

16:56

and they discovered that Jim,

16:58

who'd never raced before, was three

17:01

seconds a lap quicker. I mean, that's

17:03

a serious margin, obviously. It sure is.

17:05

and he came last in the race

17:07

but that was only because he didn't

17:09

want to bend his palace car and

17:11

he was so inexperienced. But later in

17:13

the year he did win a race

17:15

in it back at Winfield and then

17:18

two more in the Sunbeam Torbert. The

17:20

following year Scott Watson swapped the decayW

17:22

for a Porsche that had belonged to

17:24

the bandleader and racing driver Billy Cotton,

17:26

remember him? Yes. And Jim used it

17:28

to take a couple more wins. When

17:31

Borderevas acquired a D-type jag as

17:33

well as the Porsche, Jim's career

17:35

really started to take off. In

17:37

1958, he took part in 42

17:40

races at 17 meetings, winning 20

17:42

of them, and people were starting

17:44

to take notice. They were, and

17:46

I think we should mention a

17:48

significant race here, which took place

17:51

during the Boxing Day meeting at

17:53

Brands Hatch in 1958, the year

17:55

you were talking about, when driving

17:57

a Lotus Elite for the first...

18:00

Clark, 21 years old at the

18:02

time, finished second to Lotus boss

18:04

Colin Chapman, the man who later

18:06

launched him to Superstardom. And that

18:08

was in a 10-lap GT race.

18:10

And while having a P before

18:12

the race, Clark overheard Chapman and

18:14

Mike Costin, who was also in

18:16

an elite, talking about flipping a

18:18

coin to decide which of them

18:20

would win the race. But actually

18:22

it was Clark who was leading

18:24

when a back marker spun in

18:26

front of him allowing Chapman to

18:28

snatch the win. It's a good

18:30

point to dwell on just for

18:32

a second because people tend to

18:34

think of Chapman only as one

18:36

of the most iconic team bosses

18:38

of the 1960s and 1970s in

18:40

Formula One. And of course he

18:42

was that. Absolutely he was that.

18:44

But he was also a very,

18:46

very good driver. Perhaps, good enough

18:48

to do well in Formula One.

18:51

inside the cars as well as

18:53

outside them if he decided to

18:55

go down that route. But anyway

18:57

Richard, do you think Chapman recognised

18:59

Clark's talent straight away that boxing

19:01

day at Brands Hatch in 1958?

19:03

Yes, although actually he'd already noticed

19:05

him a couple of months earlier

19:07

at an informal test session at

19:09

Brands when Jim did a few

19:11

laps in the front engine Lotus

19:13

16 single-seater. That very beautiful front

19:15

engine colour looked a bit like

19:17

a miniature van wall. But Chapman

19:19

definitely wrote Clark's name down for

19:21

future reference after the Boxing Day

19:23

meeting, and he underlined it when

19:25

Jim carried on winning in 1959

19:27

with both the elite and the

19:29

Lister Jag. With you watching. With

19:31

me watching. Yep. And in June

19:33

of that year, 59, Clark went

19:35

to Lamont for the first time,

19:37

teamed up with John Whitmore in

19:39

an elite entered by border reavers,

19:42

but supervised by Chapman. Whitmore was

19:44

also a farmer from Essex. And

19:46

to go back to that day

19:48

at Mallory in 1959, the first

19:50

thing I saw on arriving at

19:52

the circuit were bits of pale

19:54

blue fibreglass flying into the air.

19:56

Whitmore and Clark in their two

19:58

elite... had got tangled up during

20:00

the morning practice session and Whitmore

20:02

came off worse. In fact his

20:04

car had to go home on

20:06

a trailer. But as he told

20:08

me many years later he'd already

20:10

noticed Jim's talent. Quote, he was

20:12

a second or so quicker than

20:14

me and I thought This chap's

20:16

good." They became very good friends.

20:18

To the extent that Clark was

20:20

soon being invited to use Whitmore's

20:22

Mayfair flat just off Park Lane

20:24

as a regular Pierre Terre in

20:26

London, and they'd have done very

20:28

well together at LeMont, if they

20:31

hadn't had trouble with the starter

20:33

motor, it kept overheating, and they

20:35

had to change it at every

20:37

stop. So after spending a total

20:39

of two and a half hours

20:41

in the pits, they were only

20:43

able to finish 10th. but Chapman

20:45

was impressed nevertheless and for 1960

20:47

he offered Jim a seat in

20:49

his Formula Junior team driving one

20:51

of the new Lotus 18s, the

20:53

first rear-engine Lotus with a lightweight

20:55

chassis suitable for Formula One as

20:57

well as Formula Two and Formula

20:59

Junior. Imagine that today. Extraordinary. And

21:01

Jim when his first two races

21:04

in the car, Goodwood at Alton

21:06

Park and he was on his

21:08

way. To get him into his

21:10

Formula One team, Chapman had to

21:12

beat Aston Martin, who were in

21:14

their second unsuccessful season in F1.

21:16

Their team manager, the veteran Reg

21:19

Parnell, had made Jim an offer

21:21

which he was on the brink

21:23

of accepting when Chapman came along

21:25

and gazumpt Aston. Jim had driven

21:27

Aston's front engine Grand Prix and

21:29

he enjoyed it very much. It was

21:32

a very powerful car, he liked that

21:34

feeling. But when he tried the Lotus

21:36

18, he knew that he was being

21:38

given a chance to step into the

21:41

future. Interesting car, that, um, DBR-4, wasn't

21:43

it? And because probably about three years

21:45

too late, it would have been in

21:47

55, it might have been as good

21:50

as of 250F. Exactly, which is what

21:52

it looked like, also, which is what

21:54

it looked like, also. Chapman and Clark

21:56

became very close and it would be

21:59

the partnership that defined Clark's career

22:01

and provided Chapman with the

22:03

driver who could best exploit

22:05

his brilliant and very innovative

22:07

designs. Before Clark he'd had

22:09

Graham Hill, Cliff Allison, Alan

22:11

Stacey, John Sertes and Inners

22:13

Island, all of them seriously

22:15

good, but none of them

22:18

quite blessed with the genius

22:20

that Chapman spotted in Jim. Something

22:22

about Clark's touch at the wheel

22:25

suited the delicacy of the lotus

22:27

single -seaters. He was quite small,

22:29

only 5 foot 7, and lightly

22:31

built, and that helped. He could

22:33

handle big and brutal cars, but

22:35

giving him one of Chapman's lotuses

22:37

in the 60s was like handing

22:40

Yehudi Menuhin a Stradivarius violin. Yeah,

22:42

that's a very nice analogy. And

22:44

if I may say, you say

22:46

that they became very close Clark

22:48

and Chapman, and they did. And

22:50

according to some of the lotus guys

22:53

at the time, they were almost

22:55

inseparable. I mean, for many years, and

22:57

this is extraordinary, I think now,

22:59

to modern years, but for many years

23:01

they used to share a twin

23:03

room in the hotels they stayed in

23:05

for Formula One Grand Prix. I

23:07

mean, just imagine that. Just imagine Fred

23:09

Vassar and Lewis Hamilton sharing a

23:11

twin room at the Monaco Grand Prix.

23:13

Can you imagine that? Okay,

23:16

it was a different era, and

23:18

money was tighter in Formula One than

23:20

it is now. But you'd still

23:22

think that Chapman and Clark could stretch

23:24

to a room each, but no,

23:26

they often didn't. I think they

23:28

like to talk about racing together

23:30

well into the night. It's funny,

23:32

you know, in all sorts of

23:34

sports, room sharing was common, like

23:36

rugby teams go, you know, on

23:38

the Lions, cricket, football teams, they

23:40

often, I guess, to save money,

23:42

but also a bit of camaraderie.

23:44

Yes, yes. Someone actually once described

23:46

Chapman as Clark's Bengali, and there's

23:48

probably bit of truth in that.

23:50

Jim was still dealing with parental disapproval,

23:53

but Colin persuaded him to devote

23:55

all his energies to the sport and

23:57

let someone else take care of

23:59

the farm. When Clark's autobiography

24:01

was published in 1964, which was

24:03

soon after his first world championship,

24:06

Chapman provided a foreword, and here's

24:08

what he wrote. The only trade

24:10

of Scottish character which comes through

24:12

with Jimmy is a certain doorness

24:15

and a very strong determination to

24:17

succeed. He's very intelligent, quick to

24:19

learn, and he has a very

24:21

good memory for things he wishes

24:23

to remember. He only needs to

24:26

be told something once and he

24:28

learns it, unquote. Bit of master

24:30

and pupil there then. and

24:32

they were very different characters,

24:34

a modest fellow from a

24:36

rural background, who found it

24:38

very difficult to make decisions

24:40

out of the cockpit, teamed

24:42

with a sophisticated risk-taking extrovert.

24:44

to geniuses in their contrasting

24:46

ways, and you have to

24:49

say how well the chemistry

24:51

worked. Yeah, Clark's inability to

24:53

make decisions was legendary. When

24:55

he went into a cafe,

24:57

apparently, and ordered a breakfast,

25:00

and the waiter or waitress

25:02

asked him whether he wanted

25:04

tea or coffee with it, he'd

25:07

apparently reply, tea, no, make

25:09

that coffee. He used to drive

25:11

his mates mad. And on his

25:13

way from London to his home

25:16

in Scotland, which journey he'd driven

25:18

dozens of times, probably hundreds of

25:20

times actually, there was apparently a

25:23

fork in the road quite near

25:25

his home in Scotland, with an

25:27

orchard in the gap formed by

25:30

the fork. On not one, not

25:32

two, but three separate occasions, he

25:34

went straight on into the orchard,

25:36

because he couldn't remember or he

25:38

couldn't decide. If the correct route

25:40

home was the left fork or

25:42

the right fork, and on the

25:44

second occasion he was in a

25:46

Porsche, driving very fast therefore. And

25:48

for that reason, he went off

25:50

into the orchard at very high

25:53

speed. He didn't injure himself, but

25:55

the Porsche was a right off.

25:57

Well, as a fan of Porsche

25:59

at that... era that brings a tear

26:01

to my eye, I must say.

26:03

And it's a good job he didn't

26:05

do that at Spa, isn't it?

26:07

Well, exactly, exactly. Anyway, back to our

26:09

story and Clark's progression. He beat

26:11

John Sertes to the Formula Junior Championship

26:13

in 1960. And Sertes was very

26:15

quick at that time, he'd only just

26:17

started racing on four wheels. But

26:19

he was good at it already. And

26:22

then Clark had a go at

26:24

Formula Two, all of this is in

26:26

Lotuses of course, and then Chapman

26:28

gave him his first Formula One

26:30

outing in the 1960 Dutch

26:33

Grand Prix at Zandvoort in

26:35

a Lotus 18, the car you've

26:37

described already. He qualified 11th

26:39

and retired it with transmission trouble.

26:42

Do you think he was ready

26:44

for Formula One though, Richard? Well,

26:46

it seems to me that Jim

26:48

was always ready for whatever car

26:50

he was put into in whatever

26:52

environment. So yes. But his second

26:54

Grand Prix two weeks later was

26:56

such a harrowing experience that afterwards

26:58

he almost gave up motor racing

27:00

for good. It was in Belgium

27:02

at the daunting Spa -Francochamps circuit, which

27:04

in those days was eight miles

27:06

of sweeping public roads. He didn't

27:08

actually like Spa anyway, because on

27:10

his first visit there for a

27:12

sports car race in 1958, the

27:14

brilliant Archie Scott Brown had been

27:16

killed in a list of Jaguar.

27:18

This time for the Grand Prix

27:20

two years later, Sterling Moss crashed

27:23

heavily in practice and hurt himself

27:25

when a driveshaft broke on his

27:27

Lotus. Mike Taylor was taken to

27:29

hospital when the steering column broke

27:31

on his Lotus. Then the Cooper

27:33

driver Chris Bristo was killed in

27:35

a crash with William Ares's Ferrari

27:37

during the race itself. And Alan

27:39

Stacey, yet another ill -fated Lotus driver,

27:41

was killed after he was hit

27:43

in the face by a bird,

27:45

which made him lose control and

27:47

go off the track and his

27:49

car somersaulted into a field and

27:51

caught fire. Bristo's accident struck Jim

27:53

particularly hard. He was first on

27:55

the scene of the crash and

27:57

when he got back to the

27:59

pit after the race, his car was

28:02

spattered with blood. So of the

28:04

five lotus drivers entered, one was

28:06

dead, two were badly injured in

28:08

hospital, a fourth in his island

28:10

had been badly shaken up by

28:12

a spin and a crash, and

28:14

only Clark was left running in

28:16

fifth place at the end. I

28:18

was, he said, driving scared stiff

28:20

pretty much all through the race.

28:22

Dearing me, look, I think I

28:24

should say at this point, one

28:26

of the unfortunate aspects of our

28:28

podcast, and colosily, that's history, or

28:30

coloscely for short as we call

28:32

it, is that we have to

28:34

talk about death so much. But

28:36

it's because racing was so very

28:38

very very dangerous back in the

28:41

day. Perhaps young Formula One fans

28:43

have never, well certainly young Formula

28:45

One fans have never had to

28:47

cope with the shock of watching

28:49

or even merely hearing about or

28:51

reading about as we did Richard,

28:53

one of their heroes being killed

28:55

in action. And thank God for

28:57

that. But in the 1960s and

29:00

1970s it was not at

29:02

all uncommon. And yes, as

29:04

you say, in the 1960

29:06

Belgian Grand Priots Bar, not

29:08

one, but two drivers were

29:10

killed. Chris Bristow on lap 20

29:12

and Alan Stacey on lap

29:15

25. Imagine that, just one

29:17

and then five laps later

29:19

another. Bristow was decapitated and

29:22

Stacey was burned to death.

29:24

Just awful. Absolutely

29:26

awful. Anyway, you say Clark almost

29:28

gave up racing at that point, Richard.

29:31

So what do you think made him

29:33

carry on? Well, here in his own

29:35

words, here's how he explained it in

29:37

his autobiography. When a thing like this

29:40

happens, you vow that you'll never take

29:42

part in a motor race again. You

29:44

just want to get as far away

29:47

from a car as possible. Then your

29:49

mind begins to function again, and slowly

29:51

everyday things start to crowd their way

29:53

back. I don't think I'm callous, but

29:56

I have somewhat been blessed by a

29:58

bad memory for such things. A day

30:00

later you feel a little better, three

30:02

days later, and you're packing your bags

30:05

for another race. You keep telling yourself

30:07

that you must overcome emotion, but at

30:09

their height, your emotions can wield great

30:11

power over your body and your mind.

30:14

You can make rash decisions, and you

30:16

have to live with them until you

30:18

regain your self-control. You don't initially

30:20

realize what everyone in such a

30:22

predicament should realize. No matter how

30:25

you feel, you still have to

30:27

come back to reality and the

30:29

living world. It's quite a thoughtful

30:31

couple of paragraphs. Yeah, extremely.

30:33

Extremely. I think he was a

30:35

thoughtful guy. And he had an

30:38

unusual temperament for a racing driver.

30:40

He was a nail biter. He

30:42

worried a lot, obsessively. And he

30:45

liked keeping himself to himself. He

30:47

could be Bruce, even rude with

30:49

outsiders. He detested newspaper journalists, for

30:52

instance. He couldn't see the point

30:54

of them. Although he had a

30:56

bit more time for the specialists

30:59

from the motoring magazines. So he'd

31:01

have liked me better than you then,

31:03

Matt? No. I was a fan before

31:05

you. You're the man from the Guardian.

31:08

Anyway, he devoted page after page

31:10

of his autobiography to the shortcomings

31:12

of newspaper journalists. Yes, he did

31:14

indeed, and why not? Outside the

31:16

cockpit he was terminally indecisive as

31:19

you say. I like the stories

31:21

you told a few moments ago

31:23

about the tea and the coffee

31:25

and the fork in the road

31:27

in Scotland. And here's what his

31:29

pal, Sir John Whitmore, told me

31:31

about him, remembering the times he

31:33

put Jim up in his London

31:36

flat. Quote, he was so difficult

31:38

because I'd say, let's go out to

31:40

eat, which restaurant you want to go

31:42

to go to? And he'd always say,

31:44

it's up to you. I'd say, shall

31:46

we go to a movie? Yes, but

31:48

you choose. He never make a decision

31:50

until he got into a racing car.

31:52

I'm surprised, as you said earlier, I'm

31:54

surprised he remembered his way around the

31:56

longer circuits, you know, Nurbagring and the

31:58

old spa, but clearly he did. because

32:00

he won there often enough, particularly

32:02

Spar. Anyway, he did carry on

32:04

racing after that absolutely awful baptism

32:06

of fire at Spar in 1960,

32:09

and he carried on racing extremely

32:11

quickly too. So in 1961, now

32:13

in a Lotus 21, rather than

32:15

a Lotus 18, his first full

32:17

season of Formula One, he begged

32:19

his first podiums, finishing third at

32:21

both Zanvort and Reims. And in

32:23

that year another grim incident happened

32:26

that would cast a long shadow

32:28

over him when he was involved

32:30

in one of the worst accidents

32:32

in Form 1 history. In the

32:34

penultimate round of the 1961 Formula

32:36

One World Championship at Monza. Yeah,

32:38

1961 was the first season of

32:40

the new one and a half

32:43

litre formula which Ferrari dominated with

32:45

their V6 engines while the English

32:47

teams struggled to keep up. Monza

32:49

was the penultimate race of the

32:51

season and the world title was

32:53

up for grabs between the two

32:55

top Ferrari drivers of Afghan Bonn

32:57

trips and Phil Hill. It was

33:00

also, I remember, very well, one

33:02

of the few races broadcast live

33:04

on the BBC in black and

33:06

white, of course. Ferrari had five

33:08

cars entered and Clark knew that

33:10

his only chance in an underpowered

33:12

four-cylinder Lotus Climax was to get

33:14

a good start and try to

33:17

slip-stream them around the circuit, which

33:19

used the banked section that year

33:21

and of course had no chicanes

33:23

in those days to hinder slip-streaming.

33:25

He got his good start, but

33:27

four Ferraris had gone past him

33:29

by the time he came towards

33:31

the end of the second lap.

33:33

The fourth of them was von

33:36

Trips. Jim kept up with him

33:38

as they came down the back

33:40

straight to the parabolica, the last

33:42

corner, and he intended to duck

33:44

out of the slip stream and

33:46

get past him again on the

33:48

outside as they prepared to break.

33:50

But as he did, he found

33:53

the Ferrari moving across towards him.

33:55

Here, again from his autobiography, is

33:57

how he described what happened next.

34:00

Everything happened at lightning speed, we touched

34:02

wheels, and oddly enough I had a

34:04

split second in which to think about

34:06

the accident before it actually happened. I

34:08

thought, God, he can't do this. I

34:10

remember mentally trying to shout at him,

34:12

to look in his mirror and see

34:15

me. I had the brakes on hard

34:17

by now, and I just couldn't do

34:19

anything, but he was breaking hard too.

34:21

My wheels started to lock, and I

34:23

left black marks, but I was too

34:25

close to the edge of the circuit,

34:27

and I couldn't go on the grass,

34:30

because we were doing between 140 and

34:32

150 miles an hour at that time,

34:34

and at that speed, you just can't

34:36

go on the grass. As he came

34:39

across, I just couldn't get out of

34:41

the way. Taffy's car. To be clear,

34:43

in case anyone listening doesn't know, Wolfgang

34:45

von Tripp's nickname was Taffy. Yeah, it

34:48

was indeed. So back to Clark. Quote,

34:50

Taffy's car shot off the road and

34:52

into a fence, which the crowd were

34:54

leaning on before bouncing back onto the

34:57

circuit, leaving the driver lying on the

34:59

grass. I remember jumping out of my

35:01

car and running over with a marshal

35:03

and trying to drag Taffy's car back

35:05

off the track, but there was a

35:08

race still on. But even then, I

35:10

realised there was nothing I could do

35:12

for Taffey, and I didn't really want

35:14

to go over to where he lay."

35:17

And 15 spectators were killed along

35:19

with Von Trips. And of course,

35:21

this being 1961 and things being

35:24

very different in those days, the

35:26

race carried on to its conclusion

35:28

with Phil Hill. winning the World

35:31

Championship. Extraordinary to modern ears. Yep.

35:33

Fingers were pointed and legal action

35:35

was threatened. You know, 15 spectators

35:38

had been killed. But it wasn't

35:40

until a year later that Clark

35:42

returned to Italy and was called

35:45

in during practice for the 1962

35:47

Grand Prix at Monza for a

35:49

three-hour interview with the police during which

35:51

he made a statement. And it was

35:53

still rumbling on a year later. And

35:56

after returning from Monza in 1963, he

35:58

gave a press conference in... London.

36:00

This is what he said. As

36:02

far as I can see, they're

36:04

just out to try and pin

36:06

the blame on someone, and you

36:09

know I'm the handiest person around.

36:11

My conscience is completely clear on

36:13

the question of whether it was

36:15

my fault. Not that I'm saying

36:17

it was anyone else's fault. He

36:19

pointed out that of the two

36:21

drivers involved he was the only

36:24

one left to give evidence. And

36:26

of course in those days there

36:28

wasn't any telemetry data or TV

36:30

footage from multiple angles to be

36:32

examined. There was just one bit

36:34

of grainy black and white TV

36:36

film shot from a long way

36:38

away and completely inconclusive if you

36:41

were looking for hard evidence. But

36:43

I remember from watching on TV

36:45

at home that day, how shocking

36:47

it was, and I remember feeling

36:49

that it seemed quite untypical of

36:51

Clark to get involved in an

36:53

incident like that. He was already

36:56

super quick, but always neat and

36:58

tidy and scrupulously fair. Yeah, he

37:00

was. So do you think Monza

37:02

1961 made him... question his decision

37:04

to race on. I mean, again,

37:06

again, a bit like Spa 1960.

37:08

No, I don't think so. He

37:10

was sure it wasn't his fault.

37:13

And as we heard before, he'd

37:15

worked out how to deal with

37:17

the consequences of a dangerous sport.

37:19

Yeah, I think you're probably right

37:21

there. So anyway, yes, again, he

37:23

did race on. And less than

37:25

a month later, he was on

37:28

the grid at Watkins Glen in

37:30

the United States for the final

37:32

race of the 1961 season. A

37:34

race in which Team Lotus would

37:36

score its first Formula One Grand

37:38

Prix victory, albeit not with Clark

37:40

at the wheel. That honour went

37:43

instead to Clark's Countryman, fellow Scott

37:45

Ennis Island, who drove his Lotus

37:47

21 to victory ahead of local

37:49

hero Dan Gurney's Porsche. Of course,

37:51

to be clear... Sterling Moss had

37:53

already won Formula One Grand Prix

37:55

in lotuses, but not works lotuses,

37:57

not team lotus lotuses, but instead

38:00

for privateer Rob Walker's team. Yeah,

38:02

and Clark said of Ireland's victory,

38:04

as a Scotsman and a teammate,

38:06

I was naturally glad to see

38:08

Inner's Island win the American Grand

38:10

Prix at Watkins Glen, and he

38:12

was the first Scott ever to

38:15

win a Grande Prove, unquote. But

38:17

unfortunately it became a bitter feud

38:19

when Jim took over as the

38:21

team's number one for 1962, and

38:23

Innes was dropped. Innes was a

38:25

hard guy, he was five years

38:27

older than Jim, he'd done his

38:29

national service as a paratrooper, and

38:32

in terms of being the life

38:34

and soul of the party, you

38:36

know, he was a very engaging

38:38

social animal, he was an excellent

38:40

company at all times, and in

38:42

that sense he was everything Jim

38:44

wasn't. But the news that there

38:47

was no longer a place in

38:49

the team for him was broken

38:51

very undiplimatically by Chapman, and he

38:53

never really got over it. Absolutely,

38:55

Chapman nailed his colours to the

38:57

master. Jim Clark was going to

38:59

be Lotus' number one driver for

39:01

1962 and thereafter. And let's be

39:04

honest, that would prove to be

39:06

a fantastic decision by Chapman. And

39:08

that feels like a good time

39:10

for our first break. But often

39:12

the hardest thing about work is

39:14

the constant noise and distractions. I

39:16

sat down to write this ad

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and a text went ping and

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an email went ding and that

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made me realise I hadn't replied

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to someone from yesterday and guess

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what? I'm going to be late

39:29

for my next meeting too. Yep,

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41:20

Richard, you started today's episode by

41:22

sharing your fabulous story of seeing

41:24

Jim Clark race for the first

41:27

time when you were just 12.

41:29

So I was wondering whether you'd

41:31

like to open part two with

41:33

your recollections of seeing Clark race

41:35

for a second time. because I

41:38

know you saw him on a

41:40

number of occasions actually. Something I

41:42

never did, I wish I had,

41:44

because I was only five years

41:46

old when he died in April

41:49

1968. Well yeah, I saw Jimmy

41:51

race again at Mallory on Whit

41:53

Monday in 1962. That was a

41:55

race called the International 2000 Guineys.

41:57

A non-championship Formula One race in

42:00

the days when there were lots

42:02

of them. to fill the gaps

42:04

in the rather sparse Grand Prix

42:06

calendar. Yeah, and if I may

42:09

interject briefly, that leads me to

42:11

our first Anorak fact of this

42:13

colosily episode. Younger listeners may well

42:15

not realise quite how many non-championship

42:17

Formula One races there used to

42:20

be back in the day. For

42:22

example, in the year we're talking

42:24

about 1962, there were only nine...

42:26

world championship state as Formula One

42:28

Grand Prix, of which Clark won

42:31

three, but there were no fewer

42:33

than 20. non-championship Formula One races,

42:35

of which Clark won five. Anurek

42:37

fact. Yeah, it was a good

42:39

thing in a way, because it

42:42

gave a lot more people the

42:44

chance to see Formula One races

42:46

in a less pressurized environment. It

42:48

did, it did. Wish they still

42:50

had them. Anyway, Jimmy took pole

42:53

position at Mallory on whip Monday

42:55

in 1962, in a Lotus 25

42:57

beautiful little car, with the new

42:59

climax V8 engine. 51 seconds for

43:01

the 1.3 miles circuit. And there

43:04

were just two other cars with

43:06

the Climax V8, John Certes Lola

43:08

and Jack Brabam's private lotus. Sadly

43:10

for the crowd of around 40,000,

43:12

the promised works Ferrari didn't turn

43:15

up. But then we'd only paid

43:17

a pound ahead to get in.

43:19

Just 20 tanners. No, 40 tanners.

43:21

Let's not go then. No, no,

43:23

okay. You're a decimal person, I

43:26

think. and alas for fans like

43:28

me Clark retired with low oil

43:30

pressure. 30s won giving the very

43:32

pretty lower what would be its

43:34

only victory with Brabham second and

43:37

Graham Hill third in Rob Walker's

43:39

four-cylinder Lotus. Well yeah Clark might

43:41

have missed out on that win

43:43

that day at Mallory Park but

43:46

just six days later he was

43:48

victorious in a world championship status

43:50

former one Grand Prix no less.

43:52

At the same spar circuit where

43:54

he'd had such a difficult and,

43:57

well, traumatizing time in 1960, he

43:59

won... from 12th on the grid,

44:01

taking the lead after 11 laps.

44:03

And as we touched on earlier,

44:05

Spar has always been a driving

44:08

challenge. I mean it still is

44:10

now, but it was even more

44:12

so in the 1960s, you know,

44:14

the old 8.8 mile, 14.1 kilometre

44:16

spar, I mean. You needed courage

44:19

and finesse in equal measure, which

44:21

Clark had, and only the best

44:23

of the best one there. And

44:25

that win in 1962 was the

44:27

first of four consecutive victories for

44:30

Clark on, arguably, Formula One's most

44:32

daunting circuit spar. You know, fantastic

44:34

stuff, especially as he didn't even

44:36

like the place, as you've said.

44:38

But why do you think he

44:40

was quite so good at Spar

44:42

Richard? In fact, and we're moving

44:44

on to one of racing's big

44:46

questions here, what do you think

44:48

made him so quick as a

44:50

driver in general? Well I think

44:52

he always drove with great calmness

44:54

and precision, which are certainly qualities

44:56

that help on a super fast

44:58

road circuit like Spar, as long

45:00

as you've got them. basic speed,

45:02

particularly in its old configuration as

45:04

you say. And while he was

45:06

fast he was also easy on

45:08

his cars. He didn't overstress them,

45:11

which is probably why he survived

45:13

as long as he did driving

45:15

lotuses. He could put fear out

45:17

of his mind and he wasn't

45:19

a show-off, which would help, although

45:21

he could be spectacular as he

45:23

showed when he was driving lotus

45:25

cortinas in saloon car races. cornering

45:27

with one wheel off the ground

45:29

and giving the crowds a thrill. Brilliant

45:31

footage to see now, isn't it? It

45:34

is, yeah, there are lots of opportunities

45:36

to look at that. And he was

45:38

also brilliant in the wet, and of

45:41

course it often rains in the Belgian

45:43

art den. That spar win was the

45:45

first of the three you alluded to

45:47

in 1962, not including his non-champions at

45:50

1 race wins. The others were at

45:52

Aintry in the British Grand Prix and

45:54

Watkins Glen in the US round of

45:56

the series. So he finished up second

45:59

in the championship. behind Graham Hill in

46:01

his second full season and Graham had

46:03

four wins so between them they won

46:06

seven out of the nine rounds. Jim

46:08

retired with mechanical problems in four of

46:10

the six races he didn't win and

46:12

he'd started from pole position in each

46:15

of those four. Yeah, when I asked

46:17

you what you thought made Clark so

46:19

quick as a driver, I honestly, I

46:22

think you nailed it. You know, the

46:24

things you said about his calmness, his

46:26

precision, his brilliance in the wet, and

46:28

the way he nursed his cars

46:30

instead of caning them, all that,

46:33

all that I think was spot

46:35

on. But I'd also like to

46:37

offer another view here, if I

46:40

may, also super positive, of course,

46:42

and including some observational insights as

46:44

to how he conjured his speed,

46:46

including not only a bit about

46:49

his technique, but also a description

46:51

of his indefatigable determination. And

46:54

it's not from me, it

46:56

comes from LJK Cedrite, whom

46:58

you probably remember, do you?

47:00

Yeah. Avid Reader of Cedrite,

47:02

yes. Well, I was... A colleague

47:05

of his, I worked with him

47:07

on car magazine in the early

47:09

1990s. He was the magazine's star

47:11

writer, already a certain age then,

47:14

and long dead now, 20 years

47:16

dead now, and I was the

47:18

young features editor. Anyway, this is

47:20

what Setrite wrote for car magazine

47:23

after having attended the 1966 Monaco

47:25

Grand Prix, obviously long before I

47:27

was working for car. And to

47:30

listeners who've never read Setright before,

47:32

I commend his elegant prose style

47:34

to you. You'll see what I

47:37

mean. Quote, it was the first

47:39

year of the three-liter Formula One,

47:41

but the best that Lotus could

47:43

do for the world's greatest driver

47:46

was an old Lotus 33 fitted

47:48

with a two-liter climax V8. An

47:50

ice engine in a beautiful

47:52

car. But pitted against a

47:55

largely three-liter field could Clark

47:57

honestly be seen as having

47:59

the superior... equipment that was

48:01

so often supposed to account for

48:03

his superior performance, not a chance,

48:06

but there he was, on pole

48:08

position. When the flag fell he

48:10

shot away, intent as ever, on

48:12

establishing such a lead as would

48:14

deter or dismay. Those compelled to

48:16

follow him. Then, all of a

48:18

sudden, he was going nowhere, and

48:21

the field rushed past. His gearbox

48:23

had stuck in bottom gear. Eventually,

48:25

it freed, and he set off

48:27

in pursuit. I was watching from

48:29

the infield, standing at the very

48:31

apex of the old gasworks happen.

48:33

Monte Carlo streets are not the

48:36

easiest on which to overtake, but

48:38

Clark was doing it time and

48:40

again. quite often as he hove

48:42

into my view. I found that

48:44

I could actually hear the car's

48:46

brakes being applied, and I noted

48:48

that Clark was starting his breaking

48:50

at about the point where most

48:53

of the others were finishing theirs.

48:55

Progressively, he would ease his brakes

48:57

on all the way to the

48:59

apex of the corner, at which

49:01

point he would throw a... pout

49:03

of the lower lip as he

49:05

switched his right foot from brake

49:08

to accelerator and went hounding off

49:10

after his next victim. How many

49:12

he dismissed that way I cannot

49:14

recall, but there was no question

49:16

of anything unfair. His racing manners

49:18

were always impeccable. After sixty of

49:20

the scheduled 100 laps, he was

49:23

up to third, at which juncture,

49:25

just as he was approaching my

49:27

corner, the lotus' rear suspension broke,

49:29

and it wobbled to the outer

49:31

edge of the track and retirement.

49:33

Say not the struggle, nought of

49:35

aliph. Clark could fight. How about

49:37

that for a bit of race

49:40

reporting, Richard? Marvelous. Separite was a

49:42

one-off, was he? He really was.

49:44

And I love that bit about

49:46

the pout of the lower lip

49:48

as switches right foot from the

49:50

break to the accelerator. Imagine being

49:52

able to see driver's expressions. Incredible.

49:55

You know, rather than just a

49:57

pair of eyes through a cockpit

49:59

cam. Absolutely brilliant. Anyway, 1962 incidentally

50:01

was also the year when Clark

50:03

and Chapman left LeMonte vowing never

50:05

to return. They turned up with

50:07

a beautiful little Lotus 23 sports

50:10

car with a modified Ford Anglia

50:12

engine. It looked so certain to

50:14

win the index of performance, which

50:16

was the class based on fuel

50:18

consumption, and it was usually the

50:20

class where the French manufacturers traditionally

50:22

saved their faces. but the French

50:25

scrutinyers found a reason to exclude

50:27

it before the race. They pointed

50:29

out that the wheels were attached

50:31

by four studs at the front

50:33

and six at the back. The

50:35

regulations said they had to be

50:37

the same at both ends, so

50:39

that the mandatory on-board spare wheel

50:42

could be used on any of

50:44

them. Well, that's fair enough. So

50:46

Chapman got his mechanics to modify

50:48

the rear fixings overnight to match

50:50

the front. and represented it for

50:52

scrutiny. But then the commissaries said

50:54

that the rear wheels had originally

50:57

required six studs. If that was

50:59

the case, then four must be

51:01

less safe. So the disqualification stood.

51:03

Oh, for goodness sake. Chapman, Clark,

51:05

thought they'd been stitched up or

51:07

whatever the French for stitching up

51:09

is. They stormed out and never

51:12

went back. Well, they probably had

51:14

been stitched up, truth be told,

51:16

haven't they? Anyway, if 1962 was

51:18

a good season for... Clark and

51:20

Lotus, then 1963 was an incredible

51:22

one. Arguably, one of the greatest

51:24

seasons for a driver and a

51:27

team in the history of motor

51:29

racing, all motor racing. Would you

51:31

agree, Richard? Yes, I would. Yeah.

51:33

I mean, look, just listen to

51:35

the stats. Of the 10 World

51:37

Championship status Grand Prix that year,

51:39

former one Grand Prix that year,

51:41

Clark won seven. He was on

51:44

the podium in two of the

51:46

other three, and he finished outside

51:48

the points. only once, eight at

51:50

Monaco. He was on the pole

51:52

for seven of those ten rates.

51:54

and he cropped the fastest lap

51:56

in six of them. That little

51:59

lot obviously earned him his first

52:01

Formula One drivers world championship and

52:03

Lotus their first Formula One constructors

52:05

world championship both by a big

52:07

margin. But to back all that

52:09

up Clark finished second in the

52:11

Indy 500 for Lotus of course

52:14

and he actually won another USAC

52:16

race also for Lotus, the Tony

52:18

Bettenhausen 200 at the Milwaukee Mile,

52:20

also from the Pole. and he

52:22

won five non-championship formal one races

52:24

two. Just incredible. Yep. And 1963

52:26

was actually a special year in

52:28

lots of respects. It was the

52:31

year of Beatlemania and the great

52:33

train robbery and the year of

52:35

the Profimo scandal. In the words

52:37

of the poet Philip Larkin, it

52:39

was also the year sexual intercourse

52:41

began. Really wasn't? Well, not so

52:43

sure about that. But it was

52:46

certainly the start of the 60s

52:48

as we think of them now.

52:50

And with Jimmy Clark's success, it

52:52

was like the 60s had come

52:54

to motor racing too. and there

52:56

were some incredible performances. At Spa,

52:58

in the rain, he won from

53:01

eighth place on the grid, having

53:03

to hold the gear lever because

53:05

it was trying to jump out

53:07

of fifth gear. That was top

53:09

gear in those days, and he

53:11

needed it at Spa, of course.

53:13

At Zanfort, he lapped every other

53:16

car. At the Nurburgring, he stalled

53:18

his engine on the grid, passed

53:20

17 cars on the first lap,

53:22

and finished second Graham Graham Hill

53:24

with his engine on seven cylinders.

53:26

And then there was the first

53:28

trip to Indianapolis, with Chapman and

53:30

the Ford engine Lotus 29, to

53:33

have a first crack at the

53:35

500. The local racing establishment, who

53:37

was still stuck in the era

53:39

of the glorious but antiquated front-engine

53:41

roadsters, treated them as a joke,

53:43

this little funny car with its

53:45

rear engine. But they weren't laughing

53:48

when Jim was in second place

53:50

with 20 laps to go, only

53:52

5 seconds off the lead. and

53:54

when that leading car Parnelli Jones

53:56

is Watson Offenhauser started... Offe, we

53:58

like to see... If you like

54:00

it, Watson Offie, okay. Well, it's,

54:03

whatever we call it, it started

54:05

dropping oil. And the rules on

54:07

that were clear. He had to

54:09

be black flagged. But Parnelli Jones

54:11

was indie royalty, as was the

54:13

car's entrance, a man called J.C.

54:15

Agajanian, who happened to be on

54:18

the board of the US Auto

54:20

Club. So the black flag. wasn't

54:22

raised, despite Chapman's entreaties to the

54:24

stewards. Several cars spun on the

54:26

dropped oil and crashed into the

54:28

wall in those closing laps, but

54:30

Jones won and Clark finished second,

54:33

30 seconds behind, having backed off

54:35

in expectation of the leading car's

54:38

disqualification. It was a fix, but

54:40

it was also a lesson well

54:42

learned, and it gave them fuel

54:45

for revenge. Another stitch-up, just like

54:47

Lamont, really. Anyway, by 1964, Clark

54:50

was seen by every other racing

54:52

driver in the world, I think,

54:54

as Primus interparis, first among equals.

54:57

They just knew he was better

54:59

than they were. Some of them admitted it,

55:01

but I think they all knew

55:04

it. He didn't win the Formula

55:06

One Drivers World Championship in 1964,

55:08

but really he should have done.

55:10

He was on the pole for

55:12

five of the ten Grand Prix

55:14

that took place that year. He

55:16

clocked fastest lap for four of

55:18

them, but he won only three.

55:20

Zanvort, Spar and Brands Hatch. But even

55:22

so, that was still more than

55:24

anyone else. John Certes won the

55:26

Drivers World Championship for Ferrari with

55:28

two Grand Prix wins, and Clark

55:31

led and could have won four

55:33

more. Grand Prix, that he didn't

55:35

end up winning that year. Monaco,

55:38

Rouen, Watkins Glen and Mexico

55:40

City. You know, lotuses were

55:42

never very reliable and as

55:44

I say with better reliability

55:46

Clark would have become 1964

55:49

world champion quite comfortably. But

55:51

he made up for it

55:53

in 1965. Another Anos Mirabilis

55:55

in which he became the

55:57

only driver in history. to

56:00

win the Formula One Drivers World

56:02

Championship with six wins out of

56:04

the 10 Grand Prix that year,

56:06

plus six polls and six fastest

56:08

laps, and the Indy 500 in

56:11

the same season, despite missing Monaco

56:13

to do Indy. This time the

56:15

state-side racing establishment couldn't stop him.

56:17

Yeah, and it actually got in

56:19

the cover of Time magazine, which

56:22

was a coveted honour in those

56:24

days, usually reserved for presidents and

56:26

military heroes. Although a couple of

56:28

months before Jim, there'd been a

56:30

cover headline, Rock and Roll is

56:33

here to stay, with photos of

56:35

the beach boys, the Supremes, and

56:37

particular Clark and Hermann's Hermits, really.

56:39

The line on Jim's cover was

56:41

Jim Clark, the... fastest man on

56:43

wheels. Which he was. Yep. I

56:46

saw one of his six Grand

56:48

Prix victories that season at Silverstone.

56:50

He was in the Lotus 33

56:52

with the V8 Climax engine. Pretty

56:54

much one of those perfect Grand

56:57

Prix cars like the McLaren MP4-4

56:59

of 1988 or the Red Bull

57:01

RB6 of 2010. He didn't have

57:03

quite his own way at Silverstone

57:05

in the sense that although he

57:08

started from Pole, he wasn't actually

57:10

the first into cops corner, which

57:12

was what you now call turn

57:14

one. Turn one. That's where I

57:16

was standing, and actually still where

57:18

I always stand at Silverstone, even

57:21

though it's no longer turn one.

57:23

And it was quite a shock

57:25

to see Ritchie Ginther's V12 Honda

57:27

leading into the right-hander. That was

57:29

the first time a Japanese car

57:32

had led a Grand Prix. Anorac

57:34

fact, please. Anorac. Yeah, I don't

57:36

come up with many of those,

57:38

but I will claim that one.

57:40

But it didn't last. Clark went

57:42

past Ginter on Hangar Strait on

57:45

that first lap. And if you

57:47

just looked at the complete lap

57:49

chart of the race afterwards, it

57:51

was all over from then on.

57:53

He led every lap. But it

57:56

wasn't actually that simple. There was

57:58

still drama. After half distance, Clark

58:00

was cruising half a lap ahead

58:02

of Graham Hill's BRM when his

58:04

oil pressure was falling. In the

58:07

closing lapse, he only managed to

58:09

preserve his engine and stay ahead

58:11

of hill by switching it off

58:13

in the corners, coasting silently, then

58:15

switching it back on. That was

58:17

weird to watch, I can tell

58:20

you, you know, the leading car

58:22

just going silently through the corner.

58:24

You were aware of it from

58:26

trackside. But you didn't know why,

58:28

you know, nobody was telling you

58:31

anything. And the lead was getting

58:33

smaller and smaller and smaller and

58:35

smaller and in the end Jim

58:37

won by just three seconds. Actually,

58:39

Dennis Jenkinson and Motorsport thought it

58:42

was an example of the other

58:44

drivers being psyched out by Clark's

58:46

usual dominance. Here's what he wrote,

58:48

quote, Graham Hill worked up to

58:50

a grand finale of setting a

58:52

new lap record on the last

58:55

lap, but it would have been

58:57

more impressive if he'd done that

58:59

more times and earlier in the

59:01

race, unquote. Yeah, I think that's

59:03

interesting. It's a bit like what

59:06

I was saying earlier about the

59:08

other drivers just knowing that Clark

59:10

was better than them. Yeah. Yeah.

59:12

cul-de-sac here, there's a bizarre story

59:14

from a bit earlier in that

59:17

season about the Lotus team meeting

59:19

Yuri Gagarin, the first Soviet cosmonaut

59:21

at a civic party in Clermont-Ferrand,

59:23

the night before the French Grand

59:25

Prix. A lot of champagne was

59:27

drunk, apparently, then finally Chapman drove

59:30

Clark. Clark's girlfriend Sally Stokes and

59:32

Mike Spence, the Lotus No. 2

59:34

driver, back to their hotel. But

59:36

they didn't make it because somehow

59:38

Chapman put their Persio hire car

59:41

into a ditch. One day, there's

59:43

probably a podcast about Formula One

59:45

and hire cars. Anyway, Chapman cut

59:47

his thumb, not too bad. Spence

59:49

was unhurt, but Sally Stokes went

59:51

through the windscreen and had cuts

59:54

to her head and face poor,

59:56

poor woman. Clark took one look

59:58

at her and fainted. Somehow,

1:00:00

although Sally had to be stitched

1:00:02

up at the local hospital, they

1:00:04

managed to keep it all quiet.

1:00:06

What happened the next day? Clark

1:00:09

won. He won the French Grand

1:00:11

Prix from the pole, with fastest

1:00:13

lap, and he led every lap,

1:00:15

too. So it was a grand

1:00:18

slam, or as I prefer to

1:00:20

call it grandchalem, because we don't

1:00:22

say grand prize, we say Grand

1:00:24

Prix, don't we? The most dominant

1:00:27

way a driver can possibly win

1:00:29

a race. And that brings me

1:00:31

to another anorak fact. You'll have

1:00:34

to bring your trumpet next time.

1:00:36

Anyway, although he started only 72

1:00:38

World Championship status Formula One

1:00:41

Grand Prix and finished

1:00:43

far fewer owing to

1:00:45

Lotus' legendary unreliability mainly,

1:00:47

he scored eight. Grand Chelems

1:00:50

in his formal one career. That's the

1:00:52

record still now. Next up is a

1:00:54

man you may have heard of, dear

1:00:57

listeners, Lewis Hamilton, with six. And

1:00:59

I think that's yet another statistic

1:01:01

that absolutely underlines Clark's brilliance. Yes,

1:01:03

indeed, Matt. But your mention of

1:01:06

Sally Stokes brings up another aspect

1:01:08

of his legendary indecisiveness outside the

1:01:10

cockpit, and that's the toll it

1:01:12

took on his private life. He

1:01:15

liked women, he liked them very

1:01:17

much, and they were always throwing

1:01:19

themselves at him, and often he

1:01:21

took advantage of the opportunities. But

1:01:24

Sally Stokes was a bit different.

1:01:26

She lasted quite a long time. She

1:01:28

was a model, a bit of a

1:01:30

Gene Shrimpton look-alike if you're old enough

1:01:32

to know what that means. Well, I

1:01:34

think I am at 62, old enough

1:01:36

to know what that means, and didn't

1:01:38

Clark pose with Gene Shrimpton for a

1:01:40

magazine ad for a magazine ad for

1:01:42

the Ford Corsaire? Yeah, he did, and

1:01:44

a very handsome couple they made. They

1:01:46

were actually photographed by the great David

1:01:48

Bailey shrimpton's ex-boyfriend. Anyway, Sally Stokes was

1:01:50

with Jim for several seasons. She'd actually

1:01:52

set eyes on him for the first

1:01:54

time at the same Mallory Park meeting that

1:01:56

I went to in 1959, but it was

1:01:59

a while before they went on a

1:02:01

date and that was actually set

1:02:03

up by her friends John Whitmore

1:02:05

and his wife. They went to

1:02:07

the London Premier of Cleopatra starring

1:02:09

Liz Taylor and Richard Burton. That's

1:02:11

how long ago it was. And

1:02:13

all their friends assumed they'd get

1:02:16

married, as did Sally. It was

1:02:18

a bit like Paul McCartney and

1:02:20

Jane Asher. If they'd made it

1:02:22

down the aisle, the whole world

1:02:24

would have cheered and breathed the

1:02:26

sigh of relief. But Jim kept

1:02:28

avoiding the issue, wouldn't make a

1:02:30

decision. and eventually she gave him

1:02:33

an ultimatum, at which point he

1:02:35

suggested that she'd be better off

1:02:37

getting married to someone else. So

1:02:39

she did. She married Ed Swort,

1:02:41

a Dutch driver who raced sports

1:02:43

and touring cars, mostly arbaths. And

1:02:45

eventually they went off to live

1:02:48

in California, from where she stayed

1:02:50

in touch with the Clark family

1:02:52

and never had a bad word

1:02:54

to say about her former boyfriend.

1:02:56

That's interesting. Anyway, let's move on

1:02:58

to 1966 now, if we can.

1:03:00

The first season of the three-liter

1:03:02

Formula One. The first Grand Prix

1:03:05

was Monaco, and that's the race

1:03:07

about which LJK Setright wrote that

1:03:09

wonderful report that I read out

1:03:11

a few minutes ago. And the

1:03:13

reason why Lotus had saddled Clark

1:03:15

with a two-liter engine in a

1:03:17

three-liter formula, which seems idiotic right,

1:03:20

was that they'd been planning on

1:03:22

running the BRM H16 engine, but

1:03:24

it wasn't ready early enough, and

1:03:26

when it was, it was awfully

1:03:28

heavy. Actually, quite a few of

1:03:30

the teams were struggling with engines

1:03:32

that year. For example, Cooper used

1:03:35

a Maserati V12 that Maserati had

1:03:37

run as long ago as 1957.

1:03:39

Okay, it had been updated a

1:03:41

bit, but it was still almost

1:03:43

10 years old. McLaren were in

1:03:45

trouble with engines too, flitting two

1:03:47

and fro from a Ford V8

1:03:49

to a Serenissima. V8. Whatever that

1:03:52

was. Exactly, well it sounds nice.

1:03:54

The team that made the best

1:03:56

fist of it, engine-wise, was Brabam,

1:03:58

who used a three-liter Repco V8.

1:04:00

And so it was that Jack

1:04:02

Brabham became world champion. The first

1:04:04

and now surely the only man

1:04:07

to win a Formula One World

1:04:09

Championship driving a car bearing his

1:04:11

own name. Clark won just one

1:04:13

race at Watkins Glen in a

1:04:15

lotus powered by that BRMH16 engine,

1:04:17

which makes it the only world

1:04:19

championship status Formula One Grand Prix

1:04:22

win for a car. with 16

1:04:24

cylinders. Anyway, in 1967 Lotus's engine

1:04:26

troubles were well and truly solved

1:04:28

by the arrival of the legendary

1:04:30

three-liter Ford Cosworth DFVVV8. DFV standing

1:04:32

for double four valve of course,

1:04:34

meaning four valves per cylinder across

1:04:36

two banks of cylinders. Well I

1:04:39

saw Clark lead the Belgian Grand

1:04:41

Prix in that car's second race.

1:04:43

That car being the famous Lotus

1:04:45

49. Yes indeed. It was a

1:04:47

lovely sunny day and I was

1:04:49

sitting on the grass near the

1:04:51

top of the rise above O'Rooge

1:04:54

looking across to the old starting

1:04:56

grid which was on the downhill

1:04:58

section down from Lasos. Jim started

1:05:00

from Pole and of course I

1:05:02

was hoping to see him win

1:05:04

at Spar for a fifth time

1:05:06

but a long stop to cure

1:05:08

ignition trouble meant that he finished

1:05:11

sixth a lap down. The race

1:05:13

was actually won by the beautiful

1:05:15

Eagle Westlake v12 of Dan Gurney.

1:05:17

Can I just say quickly, Ron

1:05:19

Dennis, my old boss at McLaren,

1:05:21

thought that car is the most

1:05:23

beautiful racing car of all time?

1:05:26

Well, he's not far off. He's

1:05:28

not far off, is he? Anyway,

1:05:30

sorry to interrupt, Kerryon. It's often

1:05:32

said that Gurney was the only

1:05:34

driver that Clark actually feared in

1:05:36

terms of speed, which may have

1:05:38

been true. Jim would take four

1:05:41

wins that season, including the last

1:05:43

two of the year at Watkins

1:05:45

Glen and Mexico City, which showed

1:05:47

what might have been if the

1:05:49

car had been reliable straight away.

1:05:51

But that was only good enough

1:05:53

for third in the championship behind

1:05:55

the more consistent problems of Denny

1:05:58

Holm and Jack. Grabham himself. They

1:06:00

had only two wins apiece, but

1:06:02

lots more points finishes. But what

1:06:04

Jim's fans remember from that year

1:06:06

is what he did at Monza.

1:06:08

He led the Italian Grand Prix

1:06:10

for 12 laps, then picked up

1:06:13

a puncture, and lost a whole

1:06:15

lap getting the wheel changed. And

1:06:17

he spent the next 48 laps

1:06:19

overtaking the entire field, going past

1:06:21

15 cars, one after another, to

1:06:23

get the lead back. And he

1:06:25

was about to win when he

1:06:27

started to run out of fuel

1:06:30

on the very last lap, because

1:06:32

he'd been charging so hard, I

1:06:34

think. And he was overtaken by

1:06:36

Certes and Brabam. It was a

1:06:39

third place almost as fondly remembered

1:06:41

as the greatest of his wins.

1:06:43

Yes, absolutely. That third place for

1:06:45

Clark at Monza in 1967 is

1:06:48

one of the all-time great Formula

1:06:50

One drives. No question about it.

1:06:52

Anyway, on to 1968. The season

1:06:54

started with the South African Grand

1:06:57

Prix and here, if I may,

1:06:59

is another Anorak fact. The race

1:07:01

was run on January the first,

1:07:04

New Year's day. which meant that

1:07:06

qualifying was run on December 31st.

1:07:08

Yes, qualifying and race took place

1:07:11

not only in different months, but

1:07:13

actually in different years. A bonus

1:07:15

anoract point for that one, Matt.

1:07:18

Anyway, not surprisingly, Clark took the

1:07:20

pole. His pole lap a whole

1:07:23

second faster than the best that

1:07:25

his Lotus teammate Graham Hill could

1:07:27

manage. Then the next day, Clark

1:07:30

drove the fastest lap and he

1:07:32

won the race easily. The next

1:07:35

round of the Form and One

1:07:37

World Championship would be the Spanish

1:07:39

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1:07:42

more than four months later. And

1:07:44

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on Max. For

1:09:18

motor racing fans of a certain

1:09:20

age, the date April 7th, 1968,

1:09:22

is burned into the subconscious. Just

1:09:24

as May 1st, 1994, is burned

1:09:27

into the subconscious of slightly younger

1:09:29

motor racing fans. Richard, do you

1:09:31

remember where you were when you

1:09:33

heard the news that the great

1:09:35

Jim Clark had been killed in

1:09:38

a Formula Two race at Hockenheim

1:09:40

on April 7th, 1968? Well, quite

1:09:42

honestly Matt, I don't. It was

1:09:44

a Sunday... So I think I

1:09:47

was probably at home. But what

1:09:49

I do remember very clearly indeed

1:09:51

was the sense of not just

1:09:53

shock, but utter, utter dismay. And

1:09:55

it was all the greater because

1:09:58

he was the one, you never

1:10:00

expected it to happen to. He

1:10:02

was at a level above everybody

1:10:04

else, and that made him seem

1:10:06

invulnerable. That was an illusion, of

1:10:09

course. And a bit like Senna,

1:10:11

a quarter of a century later,

1:10:13

I guess. Another of those days,

1:10:15

when following motor racing, ceases to

1:10:18

feel like an innocent pleasure. Yeah,

1:10:20

that's well put, I think. Anyway,

1:10:22

that Formula Two race at Hockenheim

1:10:24

wasn't an important event, but in

1:10:26

those days Formula One drivers used

1:10:29

to race almost anything in their

1:10:31

free weekends between Grand Prix.

1:10:33

A number of Formula One

1:10:35

drivers took part in that

1:10:37

Hockenheim Formula Two race, therefore,

1:10:39

not only Clark, but also

1:10:41

Graham Hill, John Certes, Chris

1:10:43

Ammon, Jean-Pierre Beltoires, Piers, Courage.

1:10:45

etc. Oh and Max Mosley

1:10:47

too, the future FIA president, not

1:10:50

that he was ever a formal

1:10:52

one-driver. And here, if you'll indulge

1:10:54

me, is a truly remarkable story

1:10:56

I think, because just over 30

1:10:59

years later, on August the 2nd

1:11:01

1998, to be precise, which was

1:11:03

the date on which that year's

1:11:05

German Grand Prix was being run

1:11:08

also at Hockenheim, An hour before

1:11:10

the warm-up, do you remember race

1:11:12

morning warm-ups, which you certainly do,

1:11:14

what a good thing they were.

1:11:17

Anyway, an hour before the warm-up,

1:11:19

I walked from the paddock to

1:11:21

a spot near the first chicane

1:11:23

to pay my respects to the

1:11:26

memorial monument to Clark that had

1:11:28

been placed there, a small stone

1:11:30

cross near where he breathed his

1:11:32

last. Anyway, when I got there,

1:11:34

I saw something that I really

1:11:37

didn't want to see. Sitting on

1:11:39

the cross itself, sitting on the

1:11:41

cross, were two bleary-eyed, beer-gutted, and

1:11:43

scarlet-clad oaths. Sorry, but they were

1:11:46

oaths. Each wearing a decra-branded

1:11:48

cat. Do you remember them?

1:11:50

Each sipping a can of

1:11:52

Varshdiner. Beer. Shumi fans,

1:11:55

obviously. All around were

1:11:57

crisp packets. Cigarette bats.

1:11:59

and more dozing drunks. I

1:12:01

was incensed and I summoned up

1:12:04

my courage to say, get off

1:12:06

that. At first there was no

1:12:08

reaction. Get off that, I

1:12:10

shouted again. Eventually they complied

1:12:12

mumbling and chuckling. I tried

1:12:15

to pay my respects as

1:12:17

I'd planned, but it was

1:12:19

hopeless. The drunks were too

1:12:21

close by, and they were

1:12:23

still mumbling and still chuckling.

1:12:25

Soon I gave up and walked,

1:12:28

you know, the fifty-odd meters to

1:12:30

the first chicane itself. The Jim

1:12:32

Clark curve, as it was called,

1:12:34

which is where I'd been planning

1:12:37

to watch the warm-up from. On my

1:12:39

way, I passed a marshal's

1:12:41

post and some marshals.

1:12:43

Scottish, one of them asked

1:12:45

me? I was a bit surprised.

1:12:47

No, English, British, I replied.

1:12:50

British, like Jimmy. I saw

1:12:52

you at the cross. Then, after a

1:12:54

pause, he added... I saw him die.

1:12:56

And there and then I decided

1:12:58

to interview this 60-something marshal

1:13:01

for F1 racing, the magazine

1:13:03

I was editing at the

1:13:05

time. So I asked Darren

1:13:07

Heath, our photographer, who was

1:13:09

standing nearby to take a

1:13:11

portrait pick of him, which

1:13:13

he did. His name, I

1:13:15

remember it, was Vinfried Kolbe.

1:13:17

Gray had chubby and he

1:13:19

told me that he'd stood

1:13:21

at Marshall post number 16

1:13:23

on most race days since

1:13:25

1965. I won't read the

1:13:27

entirety of the interview I did

1:13:30

with him and which I published

1:13:32

in F1 racing because it's too

1:13:34

long for a podcast, but here

1:13:36

are some of the things I

1:13:38

wrote about what he said. So

1:13:40

these are all quotes from the

1:13:42

Marshall. Quote, I remember April the

1:13:44

7th 1968 so well. I was

1:13:46

a big Jimmy Clark fan. Me

1:13:48

and my friends were so excited

1:13:50

that he was coming to Hockenheim

1:13:52

for the Formula Two race. In

1:13:54

our opinion, he was the greatest.

1:13:56

There was no chicane here in

1:13:58

those days, just... One long, long,

1:14:01

curved road, a tunnel carved through

1:14:03

the forest, with trees each side,

1:14:05

no more than a meter from

1:14:07

the track side. We were disappointed

1:14:09

that Jimmy wasn't on the pole.

1:14:11

He was a few rows back,

1:14:14

car trouble, perhaps tire trouble, we

1:14:16

heard. But he was here, at

1:14:18

Hockenheim, at our track, which had

1:14:20

never staged a Formula One Grand

1:14:22

Prix in those days. At the

1:14:24

start, it had stopped. raining, but

1:14:26

there were still puddles everywhere. I

1:14:29

remember that Kurt Achrens was leading

1:14:31

from Henri Pescarolo and Jean-Pierre

1:14:33

Beltois. Visibility was terrible. Spray

1:14:36

everywhere. They passed my post

1:14:38

at maximum speed, which for

1:14:41

a late 1960s Formula Two

1:14:43

car was about 250 kilometers

1:14:45

per hour, or about 155

1:14:48

miles per hour. To my

1:14:50

surprise and disappointment, Jimmy wasn't

1:14:52

moving up. Then, as the cars

1:14:55

came by for another lap, I

1:14:57

looked to my right, and I

1:14:59

saw the nose of Uchrens Brabam,

1:15:02

the nose of Pescarolo's Matra, the

1:15:04

nose of Beltwa's Matra, and then

1:15:07

the number one on the side

1:15:09

of Jimmy's Lotus. It all

1:15:11

happened so quickly. The back

1:15:13

end of the car snapped

1:15:15

snapped to the left, Jimmy's hand

1:15:18

went up to correct. The car

1:15:20

slid. broadside towards the side of

1:15:22

the track, the left side, where

1:15:24

my post was. There was a

1:15:26

lot of spray, but I could

1:15:28

see that the lotus was heading

1:15:31

for a tree, one big tree, among

1:15:33

all the other trees, and I could

1:15:35

see that there was no way Jimmy

1:15:37

was going to be able to avoid

1:15:39

it. The car hit the tree. side

1:15:41

on, and it broke into three

1:15:43

pieces. The engine and gearbox

1:15:45

flew about 80 meters along

1:15:47

the low wall that spectators

1:15:49

could stand behind there. The

1:15:52

front part disintegrated and slid

1:15:54

down the tarmac, and the

1:15:56

cockpit part, with Jimmy still

1:15:58

inside, ended up on the

1:16:00

left-hand side of the track. Jimmy's

1:16:02

head was still on one side.

1:16:04

I was frozen. It looked so

1:16:06

bad. In those days you didn't have

1:16:09

doctors at every post like you do

1:16:11

now, so I had to radio for

1:16:13

one to come. All the cars had

1:16:16

sped past. The track was

1:16:18

empty. Everything was quiet. I ran

1:16:20

to Jimmy. It took me about

1:16:22

a minute to get to him,

1:16:24

and the doctor arrived by car

1:16:27

a few seconds after me. There was

1:16:29

no movement in the cockpit. I

1:16:31

looked at the doctor and his

1:16:33

face was grim. He was bending

1:16:35

over Jimmy. Suddenly he said,

1:16:37

he isn't dead. I remember

1:16:39

that moment so clearly. I looked

1:16:42

down the track, waiting for

1:16:44

the ambulance, and then I saw

1:16:46

it coming. I didn't dare to

1:16:48

hope. They put Jimmy in the

1:16:50

ambulance and it drove away. No way

1:16:53

was the accident Jimmy's fault.

1:16:55

No way. That part of

1:16:57

the track wasn't difficult.

1:16:59

Flat out, but easy. I'm sure

1:17:01

it was a blown tire. The left

1:17:04

rear, I think. I waited for

1:17:06

news, and soon it came. Jimmy

1:17:08

was dead. The field flew by

1:17:10

again, now beltwires ahead, and they

1:17:12

all rushed past the debris in

1:17:15

a ball of spray. Well, all

1:17:17

except Graham Hill. Jimmy's lotus teammate

1:17:19

who was running near the back.

1:17:21

He looked in his mirrors, he

1:17:23

went down through the gears, he

1:17:26

slowed to walking pace, he stared

1:17:28

at the debris and he shook

1:17:30

his head. I could see the

1:17:32

shock on his face. Then

1:17:34

he accelerated slowly away. Well

1:17:37

that's fascinating. What a graphic

1:17:39

description of those... I felt so

1:17:41

privileged to bump into him in

1:17:43

that way. I'm sure you did

1:17:45

and it's quite a thing to

1:17:47

have... recorded for posterity. Yes, and

1:17:49

I was so lucky also that

1:17:51

he spoke such good English. You

1:17:53

know, a man 30 years ago,

1:17:55

a German in his 60s, you

1:17:58

might not necessarily be that lucky.

1:18:00

Anyway, that interview was published in

1:18:02

F1 Racing magazine I was then

1:18:04

editor of and had been caused

1:18:06

by something breaking and probably the

1:18:08

rear suspension, which wasn't exactly unknown

1:18:10

with lotuses, but it really does

1:18:13

seem to have been caused by

1:18:15

a deflating tire. Yeah, which is

1:18:17

what the Marshall thought. Anyway, as

1:18:19

I say, that interview was published

1:18:21

in F1 Racing magazine I was

1:18:23

then editor of. And Bernie Ecclestone

1:18:25

read it. and his PA faxed

1:18:28

it to the Hockenheim organizers attaching

1:18:30

a complaint from Bernie about the

1:18:32

spectator's behaviour, which I described in

1:18:34

my piece. And soon after, I

1:18:36

received a letter of apology, which

1:18:39

I still have actually, from the

1:18:41

Hockenheim organisers, saying that they would

1:18:43

put measures in place to prevent

1:18:45

fans disrespecting Jim Clark's cross in

1:18:48

future, which I think they did.

1:18:50

Good. And among the other competitors

1:18:52

that day, as you said, Matt,

1:18:54

was none other than Max Mosley

1:18:57

in his first international F2 race,

1:18:59

driving a Brabham he'd bought from

1:19:01

Frank Williams. In his autobiography, he

1:19:03

wrote not just about the horrible

1:19:05

conditions that day, but about the

1:19:07

impact of the tragedy, and how

1:19:09

it made it impossible for him

1:19:11

to pretend to his wife that

1:19:14

motor racing was basically a safe

1:19:16

sport. when she asked him, if

1:19:18

Jim Clark can get killed, why

1:19:20

not you? He really didn't have

1:19:22

an answer. Yeah, actually that reminds

1:19:24

me of what Halden Gannley once

1:19:26

said to me, many years later,

1:19:28

over lunch, at the McLaren Technology

1:19:30

Centre, when I was working for McLaren,

1:19:33

as the team's Combs and Pia chief.

1:19:35

In the 1960s, Halden had been racing

1:19:37

in his native New Zealand, and by

1:19:40

the time he'd come to Europe, and

1:19:42

he'd worked his way up to Formula

1:19:44

One in 1971, that was, Clark had

1:19:46

obviously been dead for three years, but

1:19:49

the grief about Clark was still fresh

1:19:51

for everyone in racing and Clark was

1:19:53

still a legend. Anyway, over post-lunch coffees,

1:19:56

many years later as I say, I

1:19:58

remember asking how to... to think back

1:20:00

to his former one career and

1:20:02

to whether he'd feared for his

1:20:04

life at the time because of

1:20:07

course the early 1970s were a

1:20:09

time when when former one was

1:20:11

extremely dangerous and this is how

1:20:13

he answered me quote oh well

1:20:15

you have to realize that I

1:20:17

didn't expect to survive my former

1:20:19

one career I was an okay

1:20:21

driver but if Jim Clark could die

1:20:23

at the wheel of a former one

1:20:25

car when he was a total

1:20:27

genius well What chance did I

1:20:30

have? Yeah, the place the news

1:20:32

really made a particularly powerful impact

1:20:34

on the day was Brands Hatch

1:20:37

where the BOAC 500, a big

1:20:39

sports car race, was being held.

1:20:41

Jim might have been there, not

1:20:44

at Hockenheim, because Ford wanted him

1:20:46

to drive their new prototype car,

1:20:48

the F3L. but he told them

1:20:50

that Colin Chapman wanted him and

1:20:53

Graham Hill to do the F2

1:20:55

race at Hockenheim and Lotus was

1:20:57

always his priority. Chapman was probably

1:21:00

also thinking that they had a

1:21:02

new sponsor, Go Leaf Cigarettes, in

1:21:04

whose red and white colours the

1:21:06

cars were now painted and who

1:21:08

had to be kept happy. But

1:21:10

everybody who was at Brands that

1:21:12

day remembers the awful sensation as

1:21:14

the news went round. Eric Dimmock,

1:21:16

who was the Guardian's motor racing

1:21:19

correspondent at the time, wrote a

1:21:21

biography of Clark, very good one,

1:21:23

and this is how he described

1:21:25

the mood in the Brandshatch press

1:21:27

box. A sensation of incredulity, of

1:21:29

incalculable grief, descending like a pall.

1:21:31

Jim Clark had died of a

1:21:34

broken neck, motor racing almost died

1:21:36

of a broken heart. That's very

1:21:38

well put, isn't it? Yep, he

1:21:40

was good, Dimmock. Matt Jim

1:21:42

was just 32 when he died and

1:21:44

he showed no signs of wanting to

1:21:47

give up. How many more titles do

1:21:49

you think he might have won had

1:21:51

he survived? Well, quite a few more

1:21:54

probably, but obviously we'll never know. And

1:21:56

you could ask the same question about

1:21:58

Athensenna, who incidentally rated... Clark as the

1:22:00

very greatest. But isn't it strange to

1:22:03

think that if Clark had raced on

1:22:05

in Formula One to the age of,

1:22:07

I don't know, 40, and why shouldn't

1:22:09

he have, he would have been racing

1:22:11

against the next generation? You know, drivers

1:22:13

like Emerson, Fiddipoldi, Ronnie Peterson, Nikki

1:22:16

Louder, James Hunt, Mary Andretti, Carlos

1:22:18

Royter, and Jodi Shector, etc. And

1:22:20

how do you think Colin Chapman

1:22:23

Chapman was affected by losing his

1:22:25

great champion? Chapman went missing for

1:22:27

a while, didn't he? For example,

1:22:30

I mean he didn't even attend

1:22:32

the next Grand Prix, the Spanish

1:22:35

Grand Prix, which, by the way,

1:22:37

Graham Hill won, for Lotus, a

1:22:39

very plucky performance indeed, and eerily,

1:22:42

but impressively similar to his son

1:22:44

Damon's equally plucky Spanish Grand Prix

1:22:46

win for Williams, shortly after Senna

1:22:48

had been killed at Imola, in

1:22:50

1994. But anyway, Richard, what do

1:22:52

you think Clark might have done

1:22:54

in retirement? Well, would he have

1:22:56

gone back to farming? That's the

1:22:58

big question. His father had passed

1:23:00

the Eddington-Mains Farm on to him,

1:23:02

and he'd certainly have continued to

1:23:04

be its custodian, but I think

1:23:06

he'd have got somebody else to

1:23:08

run it for him and stayed

1:23:10

in motor racing in some capacity.

1:23:12

Perhaps Peter Windsor. Yeah. might have

1:23:14

ended up as a farmer, custodian

1:23:17

farmer. Clark had become a lot

1:23:19

more cosmopolitan in those last years,

1:23:22

more outgoing and sociable. Some of

1:23:24

that reserve was breaking down, even

1:23:26

though his last few years were

1:23:29

somewhat darkened by a long battle

1:23:31

with the British tax authorities. In

1:23:34

those days, high earners were expected

1:23:36

to pay 90% of their income

1:23:38

in tax, which Jim didn't see

1:23:41

as reasonable. Big Money was coming

1:23:43

into the sport by that time, you

1:23:45

know, for winning the Indy 500 in

1:23:48

1965. He took home a total of

1:23:50

46,000 pounds, which was the equivalent of

1:23:52

over a million pounds today, and he

1:23:54

wanted to hang on to as much

1:23:56

of it as he could. So in

1:23:58

1966, he went in... to tax exile,

1:24:00

first in Paris, where he shared

1:24:03

a flat with his friend and

1:24:05

our friend, the late Jabby Cromback,

1:24:08

the editor of the magazine Sporroto,

1:24:10

and then in Bermuda, where he

1:24:12

bought a condominium. And to persuade

1:24:15

the inland revenue that he really

1:24:17

did live abroad, he had to

1:24:19

remove all his possessions from the

1:24:22

farm, everything. I think that was

1:24:24

a pretty hard task. Yeah, I

1:24:26

bet. Nice thing to have to

1:24:29

do. But let's talk about his

1:24:31

legacy as a racer. Matt, where

1:24:33

do you think he stands, ultimately,

1:24:36

among the all-time greats? Well, unlike

1:24:38

you, I never saw Jim Clark

1:24:40

race at all. I was five

1:24:43

years old when he died. But

1:24:45

if asked to name the greatest

1:24:47

Formula One driver of them all,

1:24:50

his is the name, I answer

1:24:52

with if I have to answer

1:24:54

with one. I think his stats

1:24:57

are extraordinary, and his loyalty to

1:24:59

Lotus, of course. But let's look

1:25:01

at the stats. He made 72

1:25:04

Formula One Grand Prix starts. So

1:25:06

many of them were D&Fs did

1:25:08

not finish. And so few of

1:25:11

those did not finishes. D&Fs were

1:25:13

his fault. But despite all those

1:25:15

D&Fs, he scored 25 Grand Prix

1:25:18

wins and 16 non-championship Formula One

1:25:20

race wins too. But in addition

1:25:22

to that, he also won 11

1:25:25

Formula Junior races, 13 Formula 2

1:25:27

races, the 1961 Springbok Series, 21

1:25:29

Tasman Series races, including the 1965,

1:25:32

1967, and 1968 Tasman Championships, 23

1:25:34

saloon car races, 54. sports car

1:25:36

races, and two USAC races, one

1:25:39

of them the Indianapolis 500. And

1:25:41

as I mentioned earlier, what about

1:25:43

his eight Formula One Grand Shalem

1:25:46

wins, pole fastest lap leading from

1:25:48

lights to flag, which is still...

1:25:50

more than anyone else after all

1:25:53

these years. But of all the

1:25:55

stats, this is my favorite Jim

1:25:57

Clark stat of them all. Guess

1:26:00

how many times he finished second

1:26:02

in Formula One Grand Prix? The

1:26:04

answer is once. Just once. In

1:26:07

other words, when his lotuses held

1:26:09

together, he won. Yeah, you say

1:26:11

you think he was the greatest

1:26:14

and on a purely emotional level

1:26:16

I'd agree because I saw him

1:26:19

when I was 12 and that's

1:26:21

the impact he had on me.

1:26:23

But there's also the pretty much

1:26:26

unanimous acclaim of Clark's peers to

1:26:28

back it up. They all believed

1:26:30

him to be the best. And

1:26:33

there's also the fact that he

1:26:35

could win in anything, as you've

1:26:37

said, including sports cars and saloons.

1:26:40

Of course, your Max Verstappens and

1:26:42

Lando Norrises don't get the chance

1:26:44

to show whether they'd be capable

1:26:47

of that. Although I'm pretty sure

1:26:49

they would, actually. So am I,

1:26:51

to be fair. And that's really

1:26:54

the answer to anyone who says,

1:26:56

were the only one Grand Prix

1:26:58

with Lotus. I can see their

1:27:01

point, and I happen to have

1:27:03

a particular respect for drivers who

1:27:05

win the World Championship with more

1:27:08

than one car designer. but I

1:27:10

think the way Clark won his

1:27:12

races puts him above that argument.

1:27:15

Do you think he has a

1:27:17

modern equivalent, Matt? Probably not. Okay,

1:27:19

I agree with you that drivers

1:27:22

like Max Verstap and Louis Hamilton

1:27:24

too are absolutely top draw. Of

1:27:26

course they are. Just as one

1:27:29

man will fan-jo and Sterling Moss

1:27:31

were absolutely top draw before Clark's

1:27:33

time. But you know, time passes.

1:27:36

Clark's reputation probably isn't now as

1:27:38

high, generally, as it deserves to

1:27:40

be. But perhaps, via this podcast,

1:27:43

we've done our bit to explain

1:27:45

to younger listeners just how magnificent

1:27:47

he was. Yes, he was, but

1:27:50

time passes, as you say, and

1:27:52

perhaps not everyone is as interested

1:27:54

in history as we are. Do

1:27:57

spectators that today is Grand Prix?

1:27:59

Know about Tatsian of Alari. Rudy

1:28:01

Caraciola and Alberto Ascari or even

1:28:04

Fangeo. Do they need to actually?

1:28:06

But those drivers are all immortal,

1:28:08

aren't they? And so he's true.

1:28:11

And you know, although he was

1:28:13

well aware of his own special

1:28:15

qualities, he was brought up to

1:28:18

be a modest person and that's

1:28:20

how he stayed. A few years

1:28:23

ago I visited his grave at

1:28:25

the churchyard in Churnside, near the

1:28:27

family farm, and I couldn't help

1:28:30

but be impressed and moved by

1:28:32

the inscription. Here's what it says.

1:28:34

In loving memory of Jim Clark

1:28:37

Obie, farmer, Edington Main, Churnside, and

1:28:39

of Pembroke Bermuda. world champion motor

1:28:41

racing driver 1963 and 1965 winner

1:28:44

of 25 Grand Prix races Indianapolis

1:28:46

500 winner 1965 first Freeman of

1:28:48

the borough of Duns farmer first

1:28:51

then world champion motor racing driver

1:28:53

I think we can all respect

1:28:55

that even if it's not quite

1:28:58

how we saw it indeed we

1:29:00

can absolutely we can and that

1:29:02

feels like a good place to

1:29:05

say and colosally That's history. And

1:29:07

wrap up our episode on the

1:29:09

great Jim Clark, one of motorsports

1:29:12

immortals. So let's get into our

1:29:14

questions section now, where we answer

1:29:16

a couple of questions about last

1:29:19

week's topic, which happened to be

1:29:21

Williams' 1986 season, when Frank Williams

1:29:23

suffered his devastating road car accident,

1:29:26

but survived to see his team

1:29:28

win the Constructors' championship. I should

1:29:30

say, don't worry if we don't

1:29:33

get to your question in this

1:29:35

episode, there's still a chance we'll

1:29:37

answer it in our end of

1:29:40

season question and answer episode, which

1:29:42

will be available exclusively for the

1:29:44

race members club. But more on

1:29:47

that in a moment. Yes, so

1:29:49

let's get into it. And the

1:29:51

first question comes from Michael Sanderson.

1:29:54

He asks, were that... any vultures

1:29:56

waiting in the wings to buy

1:29:58

the Williams team in the event

1:30:01

that it couldn't continue under Frank

1:30:03

Williams and Patrick Head's ownership? Well

1:30:05

I have to say I don't

1:30:08

remember any talk of that at

1:30:10

the time in the aftermath of

1:30:12

Frank's accident. I mean their partnership

1:30:15

at that time was so solid

1:30:17

and you know I think to

1:30:19

have... entertain the idea of selling

1:30:22

part of the team would have

1:30:24

been to entertain the suggestion that

1:30:26

Frank wasn't going to recover and

1:30:29

wasn't going to be taking further

1:30:31

part in the team. And 15

1:30:34

years later, you know, they had

1:30:36

a partnership with BMW who wanted

1:30:38

to buy the team then and

1:30:41

they refused that at the time

1:30:43

and it took a while after

1:30:45

that before the team began to

1:30:48

pass into other hands. than in

1:30:50

the 80s. No, I don't think

1:30:52

there was any. Nor do I.

1:30:55

I agree with you. But I

1:30:57

also think that perhaps Mr Sanderson's

1:30:59

question implied that would that have

1:31:02

been the case if Frank had

1:31:04

sadly succumbed? And if that is

1:31:06

what he also implies in his

1:31:09

question, my answer to that is,

1:31:11

well, Patrick Head was the co-owner.

1:31:13

I think he had 30% and

1:31:16

Frank had 70%. But he still

1:31:18

had 30% and look, Patrick was

1:31:20

no one's full. Patrick would have

1:31:23

stoutly defended and continued running the

1:31:25

team in the way that he

1:31:27

and Frank always had. So actually,

1:31:30

I don't think there were vultures

1:31:32

or at least if there were

1:31:34

vultures, they didn't have an earthly.

1:31:37

No, and I think Patrick had

1:31:39

that happen, Patrick would have continued

1:31:41

with the full support of Ginny

1:31:44

Williams, Frank's wife and her 70%

1:31:46

anyway. Absolutely. Our second question today

1:31:48

is from Tim. And Tim says,

1:31:51

how do you think the Mansle

1:31:53

Pique rivalry would be played out

1:31:55

today? In those days, did drivers

1:31:58

have entourages and their teams of

1:32:00

people? like today? Would the firstappen

1:32:02

versus science camps of Red Bull

1:32:05

in 2015 be close to what

1:32:07

you'd expect Mansell Pique to be

1:32:09

like today? Or was it actually

1:32:12

more toxic and we just didn't

1:32:14

hear as much about it? Well

1:32:16

in my view, you know, we're

1:32:19

talking about the 80s, aren't we?

1:32:21

And although that is 40 years

1:32:23

ago, yes, they did have entourages

1:32:26

by that time. If you went

1:32:28

back to the 50s, perhaps they

1:32:30

didn't, but they did in the

1:32:33

80s. And the question includes the

1:32:35

word toxic. Was it actually more

1:32:38

toxic? No, nothing is more toxic

1:32:40

than Nelson P.K. Care to expand

1:32:42

on that? I think I have

1:32:45

in the past. By the way,

1:32:47

okay, if somebody asks why I

1:32:49

have said that, I mean he

1:32:52

was a great driver, he won

1:32:54

three world championships, but he was

1:32:56

appallingly rude about Roseanne. Mansell, Nigel's

1:32:59

wife, who was Mansell's entourage. Absolutely,

1:33:01

and with a couple of others,

1:33:03

but yes, and he was appallingly

1:33:06

rude about Attens center, and he

1:33:08

was appallingly more recently rude about

1:33:10

Lewis Hamilton. Yep. If

1:33:13

you'd like to ask a question

1:33:15

about Jim Clark, just head to

1:33:17

patreon.com/the race and sign up to

1:33:19

the race members club. It costs

1:33:21

about the same as a cup

1:33:23

of coffee each month and you