0:01

This episode is brought to you by Coke Zero

0:03

Sugar. Being a fan takes a

0:06

lot, whether it's loving your team through

0:08

the lows and the highs or stocking

0:10

up for tailgates and getting pumped up

0:12

for the big game. Maybe it's a

0:14

celebration with old friends and

0:16

new ones too, but whatever it

0:18

is, it's thirsty work. So drink

0:20

something worth celebrating. Coke Zero Sugar,

0:22

incredible taste, zero sugar. Best

0:25

Coke ever. Hello

0:36

and welcome to the Rest is Football

0:39

with Alan Shearer, Mike Richards, me, Gary

0:41

Lineker and today a special guest, a

0:43

man who had the misfortune to play

0:46

alongside Big Meeks. A

0:48

man who had the good fortune to go

0:50

on many a night out with Big Meeks.

0:54

He played for Wolves, Everton, Manchester City,

0:56

West Brom, Aston Villa to name but

0:59

to few. He's now an England coach

1:01

with Lee Carsley. A warm welcome to

1:03

Jolyon Leskot, who appears to be in

1:06

a prison cell. Hello

1:14

Jolyon, thanks for doing this. No problem at

1:16

all. Thanks for having me on. Great to

1:18

have you on. Considering I know pretty much

1:20

all of you, I know I mix really well. Disappointed

1:23

it's took so long to get me right. Well,

1:25

we've been trying. Not

1:28

very hard. What we thought we'd do, we'd

1:30

wait till you were an England coach. Oh,

1:32

okay. That makes sense. That was always our

1:34

plan. Yeah. Micah said he didn't ask

1:37

you, but you kept on saying no. You've

1:39

been lying, Micah. Never. Never

1:41

once. We

1:47

want to start with England because obviously

1:49

you've started there now. You were part

1:51

of the setup before with the under

1:53

21s with Lee Carsley and Ashley Cole.

1:56

How big a buzz is it being part

1:58

of the first team? with England. It's

2:01

wild to be honest. I was aware of it

2:03

just before it obviously got announced and I didn't

2:05

mention it to me because it was possible and

2:07

then he announced it for me. Jesus Christ. Do

2:11

you like to

2:13

leave any secrets? Well yeah

2:15

so obviously I was aware that

2:17

it was potential if Lee got the opportunity so it

2:20

was not so real. It was probably

2:22

like a bigger buzz than when you get a call

2:24

up as a player. I think you're probably expecting it

2:26

more as a player. You

2:28

can obviously monitor how well you're doing and how

2:31

close you are to it but this was just kind of out

2:33

of the blue and it was like yeah it's a real feeling.

2:36

Yeah it didn't take you long to say yes

2:38

I presume. Oh yeah it was a definite yes.

2:42

And I presume for sure that Lee

2:44

and the rest of you would love

2:46

to take the thing on full time.

2:49

Yeah obviously and obviously it's a long way to

2:51

go for that to be a possibility but I'm

2:53

sure Lee wants the opportunity

2:55

to do it longer term and again

2:59

for you guys that know football is probably

3:01

less of a surprise but I

3:03

think for people that was

3:05

questioning the decision or the

3:08

appointment it makes me more frustrated

3:10

that last year's tournament wasn't documented

3:12

to a bigger degree because I

3:14

don't think it would be a

3:16

surprise to anyone like

3:18

watching the team play and perform. I don't think

3:20

it would be a surprise that Lee would be

3:23

given the opportunity to manage the

3:25

seniors. Tell us what his style

3:27

of football is, Jelen. We've seen a couple of

3:29

in games now with the full first

3:32

team and there's obviously a very

3:34

different feel to it than Gareth Southgate.

3:37

The under 21 side he seems to

3:39

have the confidence of the players. What

3:41

is the style? The

3:43

style is just to control even when you're out

3:45

of position I think he wants to control the

3:48

game really and he's aware that obviously

3:51

teams need to suffer at times but

3:54

you can still be in relatively comfortable

3:56

out of position and I think that it's

3:58

important that he use that. to

4:00

play with freedom. I think everyone says it

4:02

but having worked with Lee, hearing

4:04

him talk to players and engage

4:07

with squads, I've said it before that

4:09

I've never seen in my whole career,

4:11

I've never seen a group of players

4:15

have that connection with a coach. Even when

4:17

you're not in the team you have it

4:19

and he does it in such an informal

4:21

way, it's so relaxed. So yeah,

4:24

if you don't

4:26

gravitate to that then I don't

4:28

know what would motivate you because as I said

4:30

he's so comfortable telling you that you've done well

4:32

or you are a great player and I think

4:35

that's hard for a lot of coaches nowadays,

4:38

especially in my career, it was like I

4:40

don't remember many coaches telling me I did well, just

4:42

telling me what I needed to do to improve and

4:44

I think now especially this generation respond

4:47

better to praise. Jolynn,

4:49

tell us what the atmosphere was like

4:51

when you went into the

4:54

England camp, this England camp, not with the

4:56

under 21s because we saw them get

4:58

to a final, we saw them that they were

5:00

criticized at times even by the three of us

5:03

for not playing well despite getting to a

5:06

final. Tell us what the atmosphere was like

5:08

amongst the players when you first

5:10

went in there, you and the manager, what did

5:12

you have to do, what did you have to

5:14

say to get them on side etc? Well,

5:17

Lee had to obviously address them more than

5:20

anyone, I think you spoke to players before

5:22

we met up but I think

5:24

it was important that there was fresh faces there

5:26

as well because then they're not attached to that

5:28

stigma just we've seen Angel Gomism

5:31

and Morgan, he was white, their face

5:33

they had no connection

5:35

of what the summer was, it was like

5:37

their first call up so there was a

5:39

lot of that and the players that I've

5:42

worked with him obviously were excited to see

5:44

him and us but again the players like

5:46

Harry Kane, John Stones were obviously devastated which

5:48

you can imagine but also respect for

5:50

that it was a new period and they've

5:52

gone through some downs and a careers, it wasn't as

5:54

hard as you may think to motivate anyone. It

5:58

was Harry Kane's kind of that he was

6:00

going to play some kind of game for England.

6:02

So again, that is motivation within itself. Do you

6:05

know what I mean? So I'm going to give

6:07

a shout out to Ashley Cole who

6:09

has took on the role as a coach. Like,

6:12

yeah, my wildest dreams because as knowing Ashton, Meeks knows

6:14

him as well and you guys will know him as

6:16

a player. You probably didn't see him going into coaching,

6:18

but he loves it. He's obsessed

6:21

and he gives two speeches before the games and

6:23

it was like, I wanted to put my boots

6:25

up and go again. Do you know what I

6:27

mean? So yeah, again, it's

6:29

not as hard as you may think

6:31

to motivate players that want to play for England. With

6:35

Lee Carsley, I suppose in

6:37

many ways you

6:39

could look at the Spanish team and de la

6:41

Fuente. He came through in similar circumstances and they

6:44

gave him the job and there was a lot

6:46

of doubt around Spain

6:48

about that, but ultimately it proved

6:50

a masterful appointment and he's

6:53

done well. So Lee

6:55

Carsley going there, it must have been, I don't

6:57

know, it must be quite intimidating the first day

6:59

there, particularly when you've not managed lots of club

7:02

sides and you've created your name that way, whereas

7:04

you've come through the ranks. But I suppose it

7:06

would also have helped him that he would have

7:08

worked with some of those players.

7:11

Oh yeah, he's worked with most of them, to

7:13

be honest, and some that weren't there. Obviously Harry

7:15

Kane, the older players, I don't think he's worked

7:18

with, but that's why he has

7:20

the likes of me, Tim, who's

7:22

worked with every goalkeeper that was there, Tim Dittmar, Ash,

7:24

obviously he's actually Cole. Even if he

7:27

hadn't worked with him, he's still done what

7:29

they want to achieve in the game. And

7:31

I was familiar with a few of them,

7:33

but then the likes of Cole,

7:36

Phil and Jude, he's all

7:38

worked with at junior level, so he's

7:40

not going to be many fresh faces that

7:42

he hasn't worked with and the ones that

7:45

he hasn't are experienced enough to get on

7:47

with the job anyway. So again,

7:49

the balance was pretty good. What

7:52

they like is a bunch of lads that players, everyone

7:54

wants to know that, don't they? Yeah,

7:56

good. It's a lot different from when I was

7:58

there, I mean, Ash was talking about this. How?

8:00

They socialize a lot together.

8:02

They spend a lot of time together. He was very

8:05

regimented when we were there. Like, you

8:08

came down for dinner at seven, you had

8:10

to sit there for an hour. So it

8:12

was like, there was no phones and as

8:15

great as people may think, especially now,

8:17

if you haven't got your phone, you've like, Meeks didn't

8:19

have his phone for an hour yesterday. He was devastated.

8:21

He was panicky and swayed because we

8:24

was at this event. But if you have your

8:26

phone, you're most likely to socialize for longer. Do

8:28

you know what I mean? So it's recognizing them

8:30

things. And this isn't things that Lee and we've

8:33

done. This is the environment that Gareth has created.

8:35

So there's a lot of crossover from what he's

8:37

created. It wasn't just going in there clean slate

8:39

and it's a new style of football. It's a

8:41

new environment. It was like, no, this is what

8:44

has worked for so long and just keeping that

8:46

really. There's an incredible

8:48

talent base in that England squad. It

8:50

must be something to watch that amount

8:52

of talent. It must also be very

8:54

encouraging as you look ahead to being

8:56

able to work with those players. Oh,

9:00

yeah, definitely. Just to see them and again,

9:02

like I've worked at Manchester

9:04

City Academy and then you request the first

9:06

team levels. Can you see the

9:08

talent? But the professionalism of wanting

9:10

to be the best day in, day out is

9:13

the difference. And I think

9:15

that's what most people won't

9:17

recognize is that training isn't just

9:20

going through the motions. It's no,

9:22

we're maxed out here. We're given

9:24

as much as we can give. And you

9:27

generally see in training the kind of qualities because

9:29

it's against the same level in a great respect

9:31

when you're playing opposition, you're preparing against the player

9:33

against opposition. And this isn't a

9:36

criticism to Ireland and Finland. We had these at 21s.

9:38

It was probably harder to

9:40

prepare for them games because you're preparing against

9:42

the same level that you

9:44

have at your disposal. So trying

9:47

to break down Finland

9:50

in training could potentially be harder than

9:52

trying to break down Finland in the game because you're

9:55

in training. It's John Stones and Ezzy Conzo and

9:57

Vito Lewis rather than in the games. it's not

9:59

that level in the greatest respect to them. So

10:01

as you said, you get to

10:03

see the full concentration and quality. From

10:06

a coach's lens, from your lens, Julian,

10:09

who's the most talented, you've got

10:11

Cole Palmer, you've got

10:13

Foden, you've got Bellingham. And don't give

10:16

me some correct answer. We don't want

10:18

this on our podcast. We want,

10:20

we want, we want, we want, we want,

10:22

we want, we want, eh? He's in a

10:24

serious role now there. I don't care. I

10:28

can't give you that answer now because

10:30

Cole and Phil and Jude

10:32

were in the camp. Like I can

10:34

only give you Cole because I've known Cole from the 21s.

10:38

Like I can't tell you what it's

10:40

going to be like for them. Like maybe after the

10:42

next camp, if they're selected then, yeah, if they're fitting

10:44

off, then get me back on. She

10:46

didn't mean for now. In

10:48

terms of the talent that I've seen, it

10:51

was, it's

10:54

hard because they've all obviously had all that talent. But for

10:56

me, Saka and Kane

10:58

let me know they were world class, not just by

11:01

their talent. I think everyone can see that. I

11:03

think it was their consistency. It was

11:05

like to see Bakai Saka controlled

11:08

it. And as simple as it sounds, correctly,

11:11

make the right decisions, not nine, 10 times

11:13

out of 10, every time,

11:15

if you showed him inside, he

11:18

was going to get a shot off of a cross. If you showed him down

11:20

the line, he would go down the line and do the same thing. And it

11:22

was just like seeing that is like,

11:24

oh, that's why you're world classes because

11:26

you are super consistent, not necessarily because you can

11:28

do the most tricks or whatever. It was just

11:30

like, you make the right decisions all

11:33

the time. I imagine Harry Kane's

11:35

quite good at the finishing sessions. Yeah,

11:37

not bad. You know, it's what you

11:39

do too. And there's a

11:41

couple of times I'm like, that's not a chance. And

11:43

then you realise it's a chance for Harry Kane. It's

11:46

probably not a chance for 90% of forwards

11:49

in the world. But for him, he will

11:51

be able to control it, adjust

11:53

his body, and then all of a sudden, you

11:56

hear the net ripple. So yeah, them kind of

11:58

things are the standout moments. for,

12:01

and again I don't want to say disrespectful, for people

12:04

that haven't played, but if you've played,

12:06

you can just recognise that that is a

12:08

hurricane chance rather than a chance for every

12:10

striker or something like Trent does. That's not

12:13

a normal situation.

12:15

That's not a class that everyone can make,

12:17

not everyone can see, but obviously for Trent,

12:19

it's an easy thing to do. Well,

12:21

before you ask a question, Al, we

12:24

have a regular bay and sometimes

12:26

we basically get questions from fans

12:28

and everyone says, who's better, Lineker,

12:32

Shearer or Harry Kane? Oh

12:35

yeah, play one, bench

12:38

one and sell one. Let

12:41

me give you a bit of advice on this joke before

12:43

you start, Harry Kane's in your squad

12:45

and winning off. Yeah, I know. We

12:48

know you're gonna win. Yeah, I've done

12:50

that before and this was a free

12:52

podcast, so definitely not for you guys.

12:54

You know you guys. I love it. Okay,

12:59

we've got Harry Kane number one. Harry Kane

13:01

number one. Which one of these two her

13:03

butts are you selling and which

13:05

one are you keeping? In

13:08

today's market, they're both reaching a bit of

13:10

value, so it doesn't matter, you're selling,

13:13

you're gonna get a good turn back. I'm

13:15

gonna go for, I think,

13:18

which is a bit, this is, this is, I don't

13:20

know what it says, but I think I will

13:22

get a better response as Gary as a

13:24

sub, so I'll sell Alan. Yes!

13:28

I need to eat Gary. I think

13:30

Alan's a starter, that's why. I

13:33

don't think he's a sub. You're absolutely right. You wouldn't

13:35

fuck me on the fucking bench for sure. I

13:38

tell you. I lose my job like rude. Yeah,

13:41

there you go. Selling

13:44

quick, Jonny. Get him out. Get

13:47

him out, he's nothing but trouble. Alan, you were gonna ask

13:49

a question. Just another one on

13:51

England. Not only for

13:54

Lee as the manager, but for

13:56

you and for Ash and the other guys. This

13:59

is... an incredible opportunity, isn't it?

14:01

I mean, you're talking about you

14:04

could potentially go on and win

14:06

a World Cup with this squad,

14:08

given the likelihood that

14:10

you're going to get you guys. No pressure.

14:13

There you go. Like, I'm not thinking that far

14:15

ahead. Listen, if we get the job full-time with

14:17

Ligas, the job and he wants to keep me

14:19

there 100%, that would be the goal and it

14:22

should be. That's how good this

14:24

team is, though. It's a good an opportunity that it might

14:26

be for all of you guys, isn't it? Oh,

14:28

definitely. We have to think that, but we can't

14:30

look too far ahead. We know the

14:33

importance of the next two camps if we're in

14:35

charge. Obviously, we're going to get the next two

14:37

games and then hopefully after

14:40

November, this is a decision made for

14:42

John and Lee's done enough to

14:45

warrant him keeping the job. But yeah, if that

14:47

is the outcome to this little winter period, of

14:49

course, the goal is to win the World Cup

14:52

and it should be because, like

14:54

you said, the quality of play is

14:56

ridiculous. Can you make us a promise? I

14:59

can't get you tickets. We

15:03

have enough sponsors to cover that.

15:07

We need the team lineups

15:09

before anyone else. The

15:11

inside. We need the inside. I can tell you a

15:13

damn thing. We

15:16

can tell you. Gary and Alan. Maybe,

15:19

maybe I would have sent you a couple of red

15:21

herrings and see if you have which. It

15:23

leaks you. Keep it around team. Yeah,

15:25

see the leakies. See the leakies. I'd say all

15:28

that red herring plays well on the left wing.

15:33

You're talking about talent there. You just

15:36

you mentioned Trent Alexander Arnold. I think

15:38

he might be kind of one of

15:40

the big differences between

15:42

the previous incumbent and Lee Carsley's

15:45

that I don't think Gareth

15:47

ever trusted Trent Alexander Arnold.

15:49

But Lee's come in, he's bossed him straight

15:51

in the side. He's been incredibly impressive in

15:53

both those games. That fair comment, do you

15:55

think? Yeah, I don't

15:57

know. Again, the comment about Gareth would be trusted by

15:59

the now. But yeah, Lee obviously trusts him

16:01

to do what he wants to do and the

16:03

way he wants to play, he

16:06

allows his to fall back to do that role and he's

16:08

one of the best at doing that. So he definitely

16:11

has an element of trust in his ability

16:13

and it's just recognizing or exposing players to

16:15

what they're good at more than what they're

16:17

not good at. Whatever Trent's weakness is, or

16:21

what are his strengths, let's get him in

16:23

them areas more so than not. And I

16:25

make that position think about combatting that because

16:27

I think, as

16:29

coaches in general can look at the opposition and

16:31

think, well, how do we stop them? How

16:33

do we not lose rather than how do we win?

16:35

And as I said, working with Lee

16:38

is focused on how do we get the players

16:40

in the positions that they operate the best. And

16:43

I said it to Meeks in numerous times when we played in

16:45

the Euros and 21s, we played Cole

16:47

as a deep-light midfielder. So when we

16:49

see him on the ball for Chelsea

16:51

and everyone's like, oh, wow, I've seen

16:54

that. He loves the ball and he's

16:56

able to operate in small areas

16:58

close to his own goal. And obviously covering

17:00

some of the games in the

17:02

summer and I say, Phil can do that. Phil could

17:04

drop down and receive the ball in the build

17:06

up and then all of a sudden you're in a

17:08

position half out of nothing. So Kars

17:10

obviously has an eye to recognize

17:13

what players are best at more, what strips

17:15

are present. Yeah, we're going to take

17:17

a break shortly. I just want to ask you

17:19

one more question before they do that. And then

17:22

after the break, I want to talk about you

17:24

and your career and those sorts of things, but

17:26

it must be quite an interesting and difficult circumstance

17:28

to be in here in terms of you kind

17:30

of the interim team with England.

17:33

So you can't quite be sure of

17:35

what the future holds. You also know that

17:38

if you keep winning games, that's going to

17:40

massively increase the chances. It must be a

17:42

slightly odd situation to be in as a

17:44

coaching team. Yeah, I

17:46

know. I think what helps is that they're not

17:48

friendlies. Like, nation league games have an impact on

17:50

how you qualify or where you're ranked in the

17:52

qualifying and what part you go into for the

17:55

World Cup. So the fact that there's so many

17:57

kind of games means you obviously you're

17:59

going to I've

22:00

never had leagues. No,

22:04

to be fair, my brother played, I was

22:06

there as a school of excellence then

22:08

and youth team and stuff. So

22:10

we were Villa fans and my uncle used to take

22:12

us to the games and like the tickets and then

22:15

to be fair, I followed Villa up until I went

22:17

to Everton. And then when Everton

22:19

and Villa at the time were competing for the

22:21

same league positions, I start

22:23

wishing them well. Obviously, I still had

22:25

a connection with them. Growing

22:28

up, it was the only team I wanted to

22:30

play for. Hang on a minute. Hang on a

22:32

minute. So while you were at Wolves, you

22:36

still followed Villa. Yeah, we were still at your team.

22:38

Well, we were doing a championship, so it didn't really

22:40

matter. Do you know what I mean? Like we was

22:42

never going to impact their outcome.

22:44

We played them in a pre-season fairly, which

22:47

was unreal for me. I played against

22:49

them. My brother was playing for them as well. So a

22:52

mad occasion for the family. But yeah, up until

22:54

I literally went to Everton, I was a Villa

22:56

fan and then kind of had to

22:59

start wishing them well. Like I've said, me

23:01

too. I was like Gareth Barry's like a real hero

23:04

of mine. Do you know what I mean? Like Gareth

23:06

Southgate to an extent as well. And

23:08

obviously the time there. On Wednesday

23:10

in our Q&A, we got asked about

23:12

with Rodry doing his Cruciate Ligament now.

23:14

I did buy Cruciate Ligament. You had

23:16

similar sort of injury, didn't you? How

23:19

did it affect you at all? Injury

23:21

time or whatever it was? Yeah, I was

23:23

lucky to be fair. My mindset was pretty

23:25

simple. I knew it was

23:27

serious injury. I

23:30

was told if I do these things to

23:32

recover, there'll be no pain. And

23:34

then I thought if there's no pain, then I have no excuse not to

23:37

perform how I did before. So

23:39

I kind of just used that process to get through

23:42

it. And it definitely made me a bit professional because

23:44

up until like I got injured at 21. And

23:47

up until that, I was just playing on

23:49

the talent I had. I was naturally quite strong

23:51

and could do certain things.

23:54

But then after that, it was like, oh, I was

23:56

a little bit overweight and I needed to

23:58

work on my hip movement. So

30:00

basically, we've just been absolutely

30:02

hammered by Liverpool. You

30:05

were the guy to go to for

30:07

cars, wasn't you? So you had like

30:09

a leasing business that

30:11

you saw. Jack obviously sent

30:14

you a picture of a car

30:16

that he wanted. You

30:18

was trying to sort it out. And

30:20

then basically, how did you

30:23

end up tweeting it? So.

30:26

I remember on Twitter before, there was an

30:28

icon at the bottom. It just went

30:30

straight to your photos. So if you see the picture

30:33

and you click the icon, it was your

30:35

pictures in like the pictures in your like

30:37

folder. Yeah, that's still the case, I think.

30:39

Is it? I think so. I think so.

30:41

Yeah. And literally, that is what happened. So

30:43

he was on there. I

30:45

must have checked Twitter after. But

30:48

again, the history would suggest that I never tweeted after

30:50

games. So to do that is a bit wild. And

30:53

literally, as I put the phone in the

30:55

way, it just uploaded it. And

30:57

the worst thing is, I was just like, what is

30:59

going on? And

31:01

then what happened after that? I

31:03

said to you, just pretend. Pretend you

31:06

got hacked, yeah? You got hacked. And

31:08

he was being like, so what's the

31:10

right word, guy? When he just... Yeah,

31:12

stubborn. He was being so stubborn. No,

31:15

I'm saying, Jolyon, if

31:17

you tweet, it

31:21

happened. I think it was an accident.

31:23

It tweeted from my pocket. Do you

31:25

know how ridiculous that sounds? And he

31:27

was like, no, but it's the truth.

31:29

But I'm saying, I don't care. You

31:32

need to lie here. And we even

31:34

had Tommy Jordan, didn't we,

31:36

the head of Coms at Villa? And

31:38

he was basically saying, you cannot say

31:40

this. You need to delete or whatever.

31:42

And Jolyon was just being stubborn. And

31:44

after that day, Center after me.

31:46

was just ridiculous. And I never took it

31:49

down. I would never. That was only one

31:51

tweet. That would be the

31:53

one that remained. Oh, really? Brilliant.

31:55

I love that. You're gonna take your time. I'm

31:57

asking my own heart there. at

36:00

England. We was at England. We was, I

36:03

don't know, was we sharing rooms back then

36:05

or whatever it was. Sometimes we share rooms.

36:07

You was in my room. Yeah.

36:10

Sometimes it was whatever. And I

36:13

said to Jolyon, how do you feel about

36:15

coming to Man City? Mark Hughes has been

36:17

into me, the coaches said that they really

36:19

absolutely love you. So I've told Jolyon and

36:22

he was like, okay, I'll speak to everyone and

36:24

see whether the whatever may happen next

36:27

minute, you know, you're trying

36:29

to screw me in the

36:32

deal. No way. We didn't

36:34

know that. I didn't know that until I

36:36

joined. Yeah. So I was supposed to

36:39

know, you didn't even know. Was

36:42

it known fact after that? Yeah. Mark Hughes

36:44

was trying to part X meeks. Part

36:48

X meeks for me. We

36:51

didn't know. I was like, oh, yeah. So

36:53

Micah Richards plus 300,000 or 30 million. The

36:59

fee was the same. The fee was just, did you

37:01

get my pictures for free? Just get it. Just get

37:03

it. Just get it. Yeah. You could just

37:06

get it. But that the,

37:08

um, yeah, it was like a fact after I

37:10

know in fact after it was like, yeah, meeks was going

37:12

to be part of it. He was like, oh, awkward.

37:16

It worked out well. It worked out well. It

37:18

did. Speaking of which, tell us about

37:20

the Aguero moment, the game, particularly for you,

37:22

because for obvious reasons. Yeah. If I didn't

37:25

do that, then there's no guerilla moment. Is

37:27

that, you know what I mean? Like it's

37:29

free one. It's just an easy game.

37:31

So yeah, at the time when

37:33

I made the mistake, I was fine. I've

37:36

made mistakes before. So, and

37:38

we had to score one more goal and we've got

37:40

Aguero. We've got Eddy and we've got Carla. So I'm

37:43

not, I'm not worried. Then we go

37:45

down to one. I was like, oh, there must

37:47

have been part of your head thinking, oh my God,

37:49

I'm responsible for this. Yeah. Yeah. That was the

37:51

moment I was like, I don't want to leave the

37:53

house. Like, I mean, these are the thoughts that are

37:55

going through my head during the game.

37:57

I'm like, I don't want to pick up

37:59

the game. kids from school, I don't want to go

38:01

to the Euros, which is happening that summer. I'm not

38:04

going to be able to leave. So

38:06

at that point, yeah. And then obviously, what

38:08

happens happens and just adds to

38:11

the drama, don't it? You know what I mean? It's

38:13

all part of it. Yeah. Mike

38:15

has told us what he felt like on the bench. Why

38:18

did it feel like actually

38:20

making a contribution to the

38:22

cause and actually being

38:24

on the pitch when that moment must have been

38:26

in your way. I thought you had to this

38:29

job. Guys, I was with Zabala last night

38:31

at this event as well. We

38:34

went to a private event, the man city

38:36

yesterday. He's such a lovely guy, but every

38:38

time I look at him, I just want

38:40

to punch him. I want to

38:42

punch him. I

38:46

want to punch him. He's

38:50

got smug little face. Oh, thank

38:52

God. The best

38:55

thing that happened is that I did because

38:57

he scored. So if I don't do that,

38:59

Zabala probably got a statue. So that's why

39:01

I did make a mistake. So

39:04

Sergio could be the guy because Meeks was my guy. So I

39:06

couldn't let Zabala be the stand up. Can

39:10

you describe the emotions when you saw that ball hit the

39:13

net? I didn't see. I just

39:15

heard the noise. I don't remember the build

39:17

up or anything like that. When

39:20

I think of that time, I can

39:22

only remember the noise. And

39:25

that was like a different sound that I'd

39:27

heard before or heard after. So that

39:30

is my remembrance of it because when I've seen

39:32

the goal and stuff now, like I

39:34

wasn't part of it, but I was like the player that went

39:36

back and it goes to my job and Sergio. I

39:38

don't remember Sergio ever coming that deep. I don't

39:40

remember. I'll obviously marry. Didn't

39:43

make an assist before that. So them

39:45

things I have no recognition

39:48

of. I just remember the sound. But again,

39:50

seeing the finish and then obviously seeing Sergio

39:52

go on to do what he'd done. If

39:55

you want someone in that scenario, it's him.

39:58

Yeah, describe. the emotion. Training.

40:04

I would say like directly.

40:06

Relief. Yeah, relief. But again, I

40:08

probably wasn't aware of how close

40:10

we never came to doing it

40:12

and my involvement in that until

40:14

weeks after, just at the moment,

40:16

it was just we

40:18

just drained again because of

40:21

how it happened. I think if you do it when

40:24

you win with eight games to go rather than having to

40:26

come back the way we did, I

40:28

think it's probably less draining and it

40:30

was funny because on the anniversary

40:32

of it, which was what two years ago

40:34

maybe, it's two, three years ago, I don't

40:36

know, but we obviously looked

40:39

at an event and we were speaking and I

40:41

was describing that I would never, if I could do

40:43

it again, I would never want to win it like

40:45

that again. I'd rather much win with

40:48

five games to go and you can celebrate and you can enjoy

40:50

the last build up and then

40:52

cheeky. I seen cheeky, it was like, are you sure?

40:54

I was like, yeah. And then it was the year

40:57

when Gundogan scores two

40:59

against Aston Villa and I seen him

41:01

after the game and he said, yeah, I know exactly

41:03

what you mean now, much rather than win.

41:06

Without the stress. Yeah, all the

41:08

stress. It's never like that though,

41:10

football, is it? There's always some

41:12

pain, some suffering to

41:14

go through. How did you two celebrate

41:17

because I know you go away a

41:19

bit and that's what everyone really wants

41:21

to know. Julian, can I just remember

41:24

you're an England coach? I

41:28

was going to put it all on blame. I was going

41:30

to put it all on blame. He can say what he

41:32

wants and do what he wants, but just remember you're an

41:35

England coach. But

41:37

to be fair, it wasn't wild, it was

41:39

just long. I think we celebrated for a

41:41

week. Mia Meeks was out every

41:44

day for about a week. We

41:46

went on the parade, then we ended up at some student

41:54

thing. We was everywhere with our medals

41:56

on, by the way. We just met up consistently. every

42:01

day for like five days and just

42:03

celebrated and just drank. Meeks

42:05

isn't, he's a bigger drinker now to be fair, he

42:07

wasn't the best drinker back then. A couple

42:09

drinks, he might be sleeping. I've got

42:11

pictures of him sleeping in nightclubs and

42:13

all that. He's a mess. I've seen

42:15

him asleep. Can we talk about some

42:17

of our LA trips? LA

42:20

trips, oh my lord. The

42:22

best one was the stag do that we went on before

42:24

the start of that season. Well, we call it a stag

42:26

do. It was pre-season. It was pre-season trip.

42:29

That was the first year

42:32

we signed Gayle, Kleshe, and Samia.

42:34

Gayle had naturally gravitated to us

42:36

as a group. It was like

42:38

me, Meeks, Joe, Gareth,

42:42

Milly. When we land, Mancini,

42:44

to be fair to him, had

42:46

purposely landed on a Saturday so we could go out

42:48

and then we could have the Sunday off.

42:51

So we'd all gone. We was all gone.

42:53

To be fair to Meeks, we didn't drink

42:55

pre-season because our needs were just like

42:58

a balloon. We were sensible. Probably the only time

43:00

of the season we were sensible. We've

43:04

landed and then we've gone to a party

43:07

and Gayle has seen the manager in reception, hasn't he? He

43:09

said, what are you doing, Gayle? He's like, I'm just resting.

43:11

He said, no, I'll give you the day off to go

43:14

and obviously spend time with the boys and

43:16

stuff and integrate. And

43:19

he's come to meet us. So we've gone to

43:21

this pool party and

43:24

the way the drinks come and the

43:26

drinks you want, so Meeks has ordered some water and everyone's

43:28

gone like, yeah, vodka's and beers

43:30

and all that stuff. And Gayle's going, what?

43:32

Gayle's coming from us the way. They don't even have

43:34

ketchup. No ketchup. No cold.

43:37

And he's seen lads order vodka and he

43:39

thinks they're taking the milk. So

43:42

he's like, I said, I'll have some water. And

43:45

then he still generally thinks no one's drinking. And

43:47

then all of a sudden these bottles have come

43:49

over, champagne and vodka. And his

43:51

lies have gone, oh my God. And

43:53

that was, he was in. He turned

43:55

into an alcoholic. Yeah,

44:00

so then literally we'd be there for 14 days,

44:02

I think. The

44:05

lads went out 12 nights. But

44:10

no, I'm not just out, like, I

44:12

mean, out, out. They were out, out,

44:15

out. Me doesn't drink,

44:17

you'll know me doesn't drink. A

44:19

couple of them, like Gareth can drink, but turning up

44:21

to train you the next day, they were

44:23

at the front. They were at the front and

44:25

running, they was just mad and it just helped us become

44:28

a mad, mad team off the

44:30

field. What about when we were sneaking back

44:32

though? One of the nights when we were training. We

44:35

were at our track suits, though. We were track suits,

44:37

we wore our track suits over our cities, didn't we,

44:39

over our normal kids. We left them, we left them

44:41

in the bush, we left them in the bush. We

44:45

come downstairs in our track suits,

44:47

go outside. We start coming after

44:49

dinner in our track suits. Go outside,

44:51

put our track suits in the bush, have

44:53

our clothes out, come back, and then get our track

44:55

suits out of the bush and put

44:57

them back on, we got suits. Ladies and

44:59

gentlemen, our new England coach, Jolyne Neskoff. Yeah.

45:05

Well, to be fair, Manchini was like, he just

45:07

said, just be sensible, didn't he? He wasn't like,

45:09

oh, don't do anything. Yeah, that sounds pretty sensible.

45:11

He was just like, don't get caught, you know

45:13

what I mean? So if you, like, don't get

45:15

caught. See if you want to cause getting in, then

45:17

we're in trouble, but yeah, me and

45:19

Meeks were just like, because we didn't drink pre-season,

45:22

so we was like, sensible ones for once. Oh,

45:25

great times, weren't they? They were

45:27

great times. I hate

45:29

to go back to football, but coming towards you, and

45:31

you've been very generous with your time, but talk about

45:33

he was an England player, actually. I think you've got

45:35

something in common with Mikey. Both scored

45:38

for England, both, one goal each. But mine

45:41

was in a competition, though. Yeah,

45:43

yeah. So I think that I worked that out

45:45

as 80 goals between the four of us, for

45:47

England. Yeah. Or

45:51

something like that. Yeah. How

45:54

was your England career? How do you look back on it? You

45:57

got injured for the World Cup, didn't you, in 2010? That

46:00

must have been a blow. That was a blow to be fair.

46:02

And again, I tried so

46:04

hard to get fit. I just wasn't, I'd run out of

46:07

games. So I could actually

46:09

train them, but it wasn't in position to take

46:11

me. I wasn't that valuable to the squad.

46:13

My timing probably was arguably

46:16

as bad as anyone else's in regards to

46:18

the players. Yeah.

46:21

Like we are in JT, I

46:23

could be as good as anyone else. And then before

46:25

that was sold. So it

46:27

was an opportunity to play for England

46:30

and represent the

46:33

country at a major tournament in the mid-squans. That

46:36

was a tournament that Meeks refused to go to. Well

46:38

done! What? I'm

46:41

a few weeks. Refuse. I didn't

46:43

refuse to go to the tournament.

46:45

We've had this story on here

46:47

before. Basically, it was

46:49

when Hodgson was going to put me

46:51

on standby. I had the opportunity

46:53

to go to the Olympics and...

46:55

Oh, it was the Olympics. It

46:58

was the Olympics year, 2012, wasn't it? So

47:01

yeah, I decided to go to... Kept

47:04

Kelly did me.

47:06

He came instead, should I say. He got

47:08

called up. He was on standby. So if

47:10

I would have shut my mouth, I probably

47:12

would have went one night, but I got

47:14

to go to the Olympic village. So I'm

47:17

not regretted. Yeah. Jolyon, a little bird tells

47:19

me that you're a bit of a DJ

47:21

and you want to pursue that possibly further

47:23

down the line. Oh yeah, that

47:25

is a real thing. A real ambition to do. I

47:27

had some gigs in the summer. But

47:30

when you get this call from a friend

47:32

and say, do you want to be part of the England set up? I kind

47:34

of had to part them. Put it on

47:36

the edge. I'm last door trained. I've

47:38

got a son as a DJ. Tobias, he's doing

47:40

really quite well. Yeah, nah, it's the closest thing

47:42

I have to play in terms of the feeling

47:45

he gives me. Yeah. Seems to be

47:47

really a real buzz about it if you get it going. What

47:49

kind of music is it? Not that I don't know, but... Deep

47:52

House now, Deep House and stuff. So you

47:54

kind of have to recognize what

47:57

most of the younger generation is into. I

47:59

look like I'm a garage. But yeah, there's

48:01

nothing to keep listening to that. Yeah. Al

48:03

loves a bit of deep power. He loves

48:06

deep power. Deep power. He's got a coupe.

48:09

I believe so. What

48:11

do you like, Al? What's your thing, Al? I

48:15

like my garage, Michael. Oh,

48:21

God. UKG in there. You

48:23

can say, yeah. Parking power in there.

48:25

Scoring stuff. Yeah. It's

48:28

the worst of stopping there. Yeah, fantastic. Jolyon,

48:30

thank you so much for joining us. You're

48:32

lovely. It's been brilliant. And we wish you

48:34

absolutely all the very best with England. And

48:36

thank you. And the future. And give our

48:38

best wishes to Lee Carsley and Ashley Cole

48:41

as well. Thank you so much. Cheers. Thank

48:43

you. Yeah, brilliant. Loved it, man. Loved that.

48:45

Thank you very much. Yeah, great

48:47

stuff. Goodbye from me. Goodbye

48:49

from me. Goodbye from me. Hi

48:57

there. Katty

49:00

here from the Rest is Politics US. Here's

49:03

the clip I mentioned earlier from our series on how Trump won

49:05

the White House. We're

49:10

mapping her. OK, where are we

49:12

going today? Well, we're going to Wisconsin. We're

49:14

going to be in Michigan. We're going to fly to New

49:16

Hampshire. Then we're going back to LaGuardia. And

49:19

he really would do that many stops in one day.

49:21

He would do that many stops. He would do that

49:23

many stops. He

49:25

would do three rallies in one day. I can

49:28

show you the grid. OK, and then where is

49:30

she going? No place. No where.

49:32

Where's she going? Is she going to Wisconsin?

49:34

No. Is she going to Pennsylvania? No.

49:37

Why are they doing this? What are they

49:39

doing? So it was either a health

49:42

issue for her. It was either complacency

49:44

and cockiness on the campaign. It

49:46

was either they really believed the blue wall, or

49:49

maybe she thought she was Joe

49:51

Biden. Maybe she thought she had

49:53

Joe Biden's blue collar presence in

49:56

those areas. But after the deplorable

49:58

speech, the fact that she's...

50:00

not moving around the country to repair

50:02

that, we found astonishing on our side.

50:05

To hear the full series, just search the

50:07

rest of this politics U.S. wherever you

50:09

get your podcasts.