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Offer ends 3-3025, terms apply. say

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free underwear? Trade up your questionable old undies

1:03

at a Duluth trading store for a free

1:05

pair of buck naked at the third and

1:07

maybe last underwear trade-up event April 12th and

1:09

13th at your Duluth trading store. You lost

1:11

your job. What was that like? The challenge

1:13

is not the moment when it happens. I

1:15

was like okay, fair enough that happens. It's

1:17

getting the next job. Was Everton beat? Was

1:20

it your toughest challenge? You get in there

1:22

and you go, what and it was like

1:24

every day there was another bomb going off.

1:26

I think the first promotion was the biggest

1:28

highlight because it got us up and running.

1:30

The European thing was Evan and Hell as I call it. Is there

1:32

a part of you where you have to go? You're not my mate,

1:34

I'm now your boss. Is it difficult? That must be awkward. You know,

1:36

I thought couldn't miss me, I thought, you know, I did want to

1:38

go down this road. Top professional that he has, he has, he has,

1:40

didn't said, didn't say a word, he has, he has, he has, he

1:42

has, he has, he, he has, he has, he has, he has, he

1:44

has, he has, he has, he has, he has, he has, he has,

1:46

he has, he has, he has, he has, he has, he has, he

1:48

has, he has, he has, he has, he has, he has, he has,

1:50

he has, he Hello,

2:00

and welcome to the Resties Football

2:02

with me, Garenika. This is part

2:04

two of our fascinating interview with

2:06

Sean Dyche. If you miss part

2:08

one, you can find that wherever

2:10

you get your podcast. For now,

2:12

though, please enjoy the second half

2:14

of my chat with Sean. How

2:16

did Burnley come about? I went for

2:18

an interview. Lee Hoos, the chief of his

2:20

echo, who's now at QZAC, who's now at

2:23

QPR. He'd rang me out the blue. Severe

2:25

interested in speaking speaking in speaking speaking to

2:27

you. Went up and did a first interview.

2:29

I was the first, they talked with this

2:31

afterwards, I was the first of 12, and

2:33

then got through that, got invited for a

2:35

second interview. Let me interrupt you just slightly,

2:37

Sean, because I think people would be quite

2:40

interested. Being interviewed to be the manager of

2:42

a football club, would that be different, do

2:44

you feel than perhaps people going to be

2:46

interviewed for other jobs? What kind of preparation?

2:48

Did you do for those interviews? Did you

2:50

look perhaps at the players that they got?

2:52

You went in there with a detailed summary

2:55

of what you think you could do or

2:57

tell us how it works? Yeah, I mean

2:59

there's different formats, that one. I did because

3:01

I was only a one-year manager. I felt

3:03

like I had to show them the depth

3:05

of what I did as a coach, a

3:07

player and manager. So I came a quick

3:10

whistle stock tour on my career but then

3:12

spoke about their club as in Burnley. I

3:14

played there many times through the levels, championship

3:16

first and second, so I played there loads

3:18

of times. I knew a bit about the

3:20

fabric of the area, you know, it's a

3:22

nitty gritty, rough and ready, working class town,

3:25

but they were dominated by the football and

3:27

everyone loved the football club. So I sort

3:29

of angled towards that, my feeling towards that

3:31

and understanding of it. and then kind of

3:33

about the team how I thought the team

3:35

could do how I thought some of the

3:37

players there you know I knew the championship

3:40

quite well at that time so I knew

3:42

some of the players there and there was

3:44

some obvious stuff like I mean Eddie's done

3:46

incredible in his career but at that stage

3:48

they were leaking goals hugely I mean scoring

3:50

you know to that and conceding for that

3:52

So that was quite obvious, that had to

3:55

change. Yeah, and just kind of blended it

3:57

into this PowerPoint presentation. Then the second interview

3:59

was with the whole board of directors and

4:01

they asked me to run through it, you

4:03

know, not in depth, but a quick feel

4:05

of it. And then I got an interview,

4:07

then I got the job, whereas, so the

4:10

other interview was slightly different, I'd had eight

4:12

years in the Premier League, so they're not,

4:14

basically, I said to, well, If you want

4:16

me to start giving you PowerPoint and presentation,

4:18

I can. If you want me to start

4:20

telling you about lines of past, facts, facts,

4:22

physical facts, all of that, I can. But

4:24

probably you're not going to need that at

4:27

Everton at that time. You're going to need

4:29

this to be pulled together, stripped back, and

4:31

aligned and reformatted if you like. So it's

4:33

a different kind. It wasn't in interview showing

4:35

the PowerPoint. It was a chat. Also, perhaps

4:37

with Bernie, I don't know this, but they

4:39

perhaps interviewed quite a few managers, whereas I

4:42

would think with Everton they targeted you more,

4:44

didn't they? Yeah, I think so. I think

4:46

with Bernie, it was an open, open sort

4:48

of situation because had he had gone back

4:50

to Bournemouth. but no ill feeling you know

4:52

he just he just decided to go back

4:54

there I think family reasons and all that

4:57

sort of stuff so yeah they went through

4:59

12 at that stage whereas I think I

5:01

don't know the number of Everton but I

5:03

would imagine it was probably two three maybe

5:05

four and some would be a loose chat

5:07

mine started with a loose chat then a

5:09

zoom call and then an actual physical meeting

5:12

and I was out of work anyway so

5:14

it was an easier process you know there

5:16

was no reason to be ducking and diving

5:18

and it was just quite straightforward time there.

5:20

You must have so many great memories. Yeah,

5:22

definitely. I mean, the first, you know, getting

5:24

the first promotion was incredible. Still, they're highlighting

5:27

my career for the emotion of it. I

5:29

mean, I've had other highlights, but the emotional

5:31

feeling of that final win against Wigan who

5:33

were flying and we were, we were amazing

5:35

on the day, you know, and it all

5:37

just came together. And that emotional bond with

5:39

that team will be forever, I think. You

5:42

know, the young Danny. flying, Kier and Trippia

5:44

flying. I am the statesman Michael Duff and

5:46

Gabla, playing out their skin, Jason Shackle, Dean

5:48

Marney, all these players playing Ben Me, the

5:50

emergence of Ben Me, and just it was

5:52

an amazing, amazing season and then... We went

5:54

down, but then built the training ground and

5:56

then went back up and that was a

5:59

bit more business-like. The second time we went

6:01

up was a bit more business-like and then

6:03

we started forming the club. So it wasn't

6:05

just a team then, it started with a

6:07

team and now the club starts forming, you

6:09

know, training ground, better facilities, players' contracts start

6:11

rising. including the managers I'm pleased to say

6:14

I'm always putting up it and quite nicely

6:16

love it Gary. Yeah I'm sure sure. Yeah

6:18

and then and then making sure that you

6:20

know it was a club feel then it

6:22

was like a bigger concern and that was

6:24

it really interesting for me really good for

6:26

my development but I had a lot of

6:29

say there I was involved in board meetings

6:31

right the way through the club I mean

6:33

not making all the decisions but just giving

6:35

opinion on whatever it may be and they

6:37

were very open with that I mean for

6:39

all for all the board there and the

6:41

owners didn't, they weren't always giving me loads

6:44

of money, but they were super open and

6:46

super strong and super clear with the expectation,

6:48

their expectation. And that was a good place

6:50

to be. It was a good alignment throughout

6:52

the club. That is interesting because it has

6:54

shifted and it's a lot of character of

6:56

football clubs. How important is it now with

6:59

the... coach or manager? It's more coach nowadays

7:01

isn't it? It's cool because of that change.

7:03

How important is it to have a good

7:05

relationship with the person that's making the decisions

7:07

in terms of buying the players? And how

7:09

difficult that and how much say do you

7:11

get as a coach imagine in those decisions?

7:14

Yeah. I wouldn't say the total final say

7:16

but it was pushing towards that way. There's

7:18

very few players went into there who I

7:20

wasn't keen on or against. In fact none

7:22

I was against. There was a few questions

7:24

I was not sure but they might fit

7:26

the budget or the wage budget and all

7:28

that sort of stuff. A lot of clubs

7:31

now and I've got no problem with this

7:33

is I remember someone saying oh you don't

7:35

like direct as a football I said absolutely

7:37

nonsense. I said, I've never seen anything of

7:39

the sort. I said, it was Arson Venga,

7:41

they misquoted me on, who once said, the

7:43

best thing about football directors is that as

7:46

long as they do what you want them

7:48

to do, you're okay. And I thought, yeah,

7:50

you know, now it's a different ball game.

7:52

Yeah, but now it's a different ball game,

7:54

Gary, you know that. There's some of these

7:56

clubs now having transfer committees, so we're having

7:58

player committees to to. Yeah, bring players in.

8:01

Yeah, as you know, some of the managers

8:03

are not involved in that. They're actually coach

8:05

coach, where they're going, no, these are the

8:07

players that you're the coach, you coach, we

8:09

bring in. Others are still, not old school,

8:11

but slightly older thinking where the manager does

8:13

have a say. I mean, Everton, I work

8:16

well with Kevin farewell, who did some really

8:18

good work and hard because his agenda for

8:20

the club was. You know, he's got to

8:22

bring some money in and not keep signing

8:24

older players. You know the story. That's a

8:26

lot of older players who ended up not

8:28

being worth their money and all that. But

8:31

whilst trying to give us some players who

8:33

could become Everton players and Everton's not an

8:35

easy place to play as you know, it's

8:37

a very demanding situation. So he was sort

8:39

of stretched. but he'd worked with me on

8:41

it. He wouldn't be working against me. He'd

8:43

go, look, sure, this is the best we

8:46

can sort of do. We've got to bring

8:48

the numbers down. So there was a lot

8:50

more of a cohesive view with the Director

8:52

of Football at Everton, with me, the Director

8:54

of Football, Kevin, being the main, main voices,

8:56

if you like. Do you wish, because it's

8:58

not happened to you yet, yet, sure. You

9:00

never really had a big budget, have you?

9:03

You know what that character sometimes, right? Because

9:05

it always makes me laugh. Because you remember

9:07

that when a carpenter is all these myths,

9:09

right? And they all started and nothing, as

9:11

you know. So Brexit, of course, had that

9:13

one, you know, it doesn't like foreign football,

9:15

it's up at a nonsense. So now I've

9:18

worked with lots of different creeds, colours, and

9:20

all sorts of evidence, which has been fantastic,

9:22

because that's another myth out the window. You

9:24

don't want to play. absolute nonsense. You go,

9:26

I had to get a team, ever, where

9:28

we had to try and win. But he

9:30

can't spend money. I'm like, well, it'd be

9:33

nice to have some to spend. So, you

9:35

know, it's like that. And you go, well,

9:37

at least I ticked a few of them

9:39

boxes. But I mean... I don't know, but

9:41

it's relative to the concern of Everton, I

9:43

mean it might change with the new owners

9:45

of course in the different kind of financial

9:48

viewpoint. But yeah, I mean it's tough. I've

9:50

never really had the one where they go

9:52

right, you know, here you go, this is

9:54

what you can do, these are the players

9:56

and we're happy to make a few mistakes

9:58

because we'll correct them the next window. I've

10:00

never had that. Yeah. There must be a

10:03

degree of frustration. I mean, I suppose pretty

10:05

much every coach, whatever level you get, there'll

10:07

always be a time where you can't have

10:09

quite what you want. So, you know, it's

10:11

all relative in some ways, but it must

10:13

be frustration when you know you've got a

10:15

squad that at best can perhaps stay in

10:18

the Premier League. It is, and it would

10:20

be nice to have, say like the Everton

10:22

thing, the notice come in, if you can

10:24

just turn that round slightly further and just

10:26

start rising again. who knows they might have

10:28

gone right we're going to start backing. I

10:30

never got that chance by the time the

10:32

money will possibly will come in because our

10:35

hands were tied from the financial fair play

10:37

so we you know whether we had if

10:39

they gave me a trillion quid it wouldn't

10:41

matter because you couldn't spend it because you'd

10:43

be breaking the financial play and playing it.

10:45

But it'd be nice to be in a

10:47

position like say to at least have had

10:50

a chance or get a chance to go

10:52

right okay what can I do with a

10:54

better budget, a better budget bigger budget bigger

10:56

budget bigger budget different styles of players different

10:58

styles of players without having the pressure of

11:00

getting the job just done. You know, Evan,

11:02

it just had to get done. You had

11:05

to stay up. You had to stay up.

11:07

You had to stay up. Yeah, exactly. The

11:09

job needed doing. So that was a, that

11:11

is somewhat of a new surround your neck

11:13

when that's the only goal is just to

11:15

make sure you stay in the division. Yeah,

11:17

let's go back to Burnley. What was the

11:20

highlight, taking them to Europe? I think the

11:22

first promotion was the biggest highlight because it

11:24

got us up from running. The European thing

11:26

was Evan and hell. Good for me, good

11:28

for my CV, my experience, my learning, good

11:30

for the team, good for the town. But

11:32

it puts a massive demand, I mean we

11:35

were so unlucky with the teams we pulled,

11:37

I mean we were travelling all over and

11:39

travelling through, I remember when I... first low

11:41

ones we traveled through the night I think

11:43

was from Turkey we traveled through the night

11:45

you're more or less got to give the

11:47

players a day off because you're getting at

11:50

like six in the morning they've been on

11:52

a flight you know they've been trying to

11:54

get some rest after a game you know

11:56

what it's like you can't rest anyway and

11:58

then the Saturday came we trained and then

12:00

we had to fly down to London to

12:02

come play full on the Sunday we were

12:04

all for we got beat well beat and

12:07

the players just looked the players just looked

12:09

it was like what's going it was like

12:11

what's going Well it is if you haven't

12:13

got the resources because the club were amazing

12:15

got there but they weren't sort of going

12:17

right let's rip the whole model up then

12:19

now. You need another half a dozen players.

12:22

Exactly. They were going no look we're we're

12:24

going to have to work with what we've

12:26

got we were within reason I mean we

12:28

did bring some players in but it was

12:30

difficult you know to to get enough players

12:32

of quality in to go and manage that

12:34

situation and it's very difficult. We got to

12:37

the halfway point of the Premier's League season,

12:39

season sorry and we only had 12 points.

12:41

So then you're like, goodness me, you know,

12:43

we've got a lot of work to do

12:45

and then we ended up with 39 or

12:47

40 and got the job done. So yeah,

12:49

heaven and hell, amazing experience and amazing to

12:52

go through it, but the hell side of

12:54

it, it put a lot of pressure on

12:56

a lot of people, especially the players. Yeah,

12:58

in 2022, you were sat from Burnley after

13:00

nine and a half years, bizarrely in April.

13:02

Do you think that was just blind panic

13:04

at that point from them? Was it hurtful?

13:07

It was really strange. It was a bizarre

13:09

one in the sense that if they got

13:11

rid of me and they put in a-end

13:13

of the manager who'd been there seeing it

13:15

done it, I would have understood it, but

13:17

they didn't. They put in three novice herdlers

13:19

and I thought, I can't see that. And

13:22

then they won the three I think and

13:24

drawn the three I think and drum and

13:26

everyone was saying, oh you know, we knew

13:28

it work and I was thinking there's a

13:30

lot more to it than about. Yeah, but

13:32

then unfortunately they went down. I didn't unfortunately

13:34

they went down. I didn't won that by

13:36

the same as I don't want that, by

13:39

the same as I don't want that, by

13:41

the same as I don't want anything, but

13:43

good, but good, but good, but good, but

13:45

good, but good, but good, but good, but

13:47

good, but good, but good, but good, but

13:49

good, but good, but good, but good, but

13:51

good, but good, for ever. I didn't want

13:54

Burnley to fail after all them years of

13:56

building it. I'd want that to be ridiculous.

13:58

But I found that a bit. bizarre because

14:00

you know my I would suggest I had

14:02

the capability is to make sure we at

14:04

least stayed up that season and then they

14:06

could have made a decision but anyways what's

14:09

the way it goes what's I mean it's

14:11

horrible question really but describe what it's like

14:13

and how it happens when a manager loses

14:15

their job do they do they do it

14:17

face to face do they bring you up

14:19

or how does it work? Yeah I mean

14:21

you can smell it in the air sometimes

14:24

you know I mean don't want to burn

14:26

it I could smell it will wake up

14:28

or this thing right? Yeah why why why

14:30

what wasn't right? They just a feeling and

14:32

Alan Pace, who's their owner, Germany, wandering around

14:34

and speaking with the players, you can smell

14:36

it. You can see it as well. I

14:39

could see the runners and riders, I could

14:41

see the players who were feather in the

14:43

next situation. I could see a mile. Players

14:45

that probably won't be picked normally, isn't it?

14:47

Possibly. Players of what had changed, you know,

14:49

that's how it sometimes goes. So the only

14:51

bizarre thing was two days for a game

14:54

and I thought why now but yeah it

14:56

was just all in just literally it's said

14:58

simple really said can I see in the

15:00

morning I said yeah obviously I knew yeah

15:02

and then you know he said look gonna

15:04

make a change I went yeah okay said

15:06

I'll leave this everything planned I said the

15:08

session I said I'll leave this everything planned

15:11

I said the session will be planned the

15:13

players will be planned the team knows what

15:15

it's doing the staff and what they're doing

15:17

I'll meet the players done off you go

15:19

right. The king is dead long before the

15:21

king, get another king in. Time for us

15:23

to take a small break and we'll hear

15:26

more from Sean Dyche when we come back.

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any time, terms apply. I

16:58

mean you've talked about the interview you did

17:01

for Everton and I mean that's a big

17:03

football club Everton isn't it? It is. It

17:05

is. There's high expectations there but they've not

17:07

necessarily had the budget to match those expectations

17:10

in in recent times but I mean you've

17:12

also joined a really difficult time with the

17:14

PSR rules and the docking of the amount

17:17

of points you got. I mean that must

17:19

have, did that galvanise everyone though possibly to

17:21

a degree? Because I mean it was terrific

17:23

season considering what you went through. The first

17:26

thing is first Gary is for me as

17:28

an individual you know a lot of the

17:30

things that are thrown at me under the

17:33

managers by the way I'm not crying in

17:35

but you know I couldn't manage a big

17:37

club. Well what about managing a big club

17:39

in crisis? Because that's what I had to

17:42

do. Even more of a challenge. Yeah, so

17:44

hence, I'm going to go back to what

17:46

you asked, but hence, by the time I

17:49

came out, there's absolutely no animosity. I'm absolutely,

17:51

couldn't be more proud of what we achieved

17:53

collectively. So I've got no problem with it

17:55

whatsoever, and that's the way it goes. Going

17:58

back to your point, yeah, I mean... in

18:00

there and you're looking around going goodness

18:02

me this is like all over the place

18:04

you know and not that's not I must

18:06

make it clear as well that's not

18:08

questioning any other managers not at all

18:11

everyone has own style of doing what

18:13

they want to do I'm not on about

18:15

that I'm on about you've got the fans

18:17

don't want the owner there they don't the

18:20

chairman there they don't a legend sharply there

18:22

they don't achieve exact there so they're

18:24

not allowed to come to the games

18:26

because they're getting all kinds of threats

18:28

and then the whole thing that the

18:30

negativity the cloud around it was huge

18:32

so without him worrying about winning the

18:35

first game you're looking going hang on

18:37

a minute I can't somehow calm this

18:39

a little bit and bring a bit

18:41

of what I call alignment you know I

18:43

would say there's a truth line in a

18:45

club and this truth line was miles off

18:48

it was miles off the truth you know

18:50

and I thought hang on someone doesn't been

18:52

telling these fans what the reality is what

18:54

the reality is did you realize what the

18:56

reality was before you know No, trust me,

18:58

that was a shocker when I got him.

19:01

Right, yeah. Because I was like, yeah, because

19:03

I was like, I was like, really, I

19:05

was like, where is all this, where

19:07

is this all come from? It was

19:10

just like a clutter of weird and

19:12

wonderful things that needed sorting out. Such

19:14

as, explain to us what, how does

19:16

that trans? Well, contracts all over the

19:18

place, earnings were all over place, because

19:21

they've been signed by all these different

19:23

managers, different groups. the field of the

19:25

club wasn't in my opinion aligned the

19:27

fans were confused do we want to

19:29

play do we want to kick it

19:32

do we want to get it crossing

19:34

do we want to never be they

19:36

wanted to win of course and I thought

19:38

well let's start with the basics so first

19:40

thing I did was went in and said

19:42

right we're going to tidy up the

19:45

simple basics discipline you know organization and

19:47

the team make no state strong fit and organized so

19:49

you know, another thing straight away was I was, you

19:51

know, they showed me doing the bleep and it was

19:53

like, oh, he's taking a hard yards. No, I wasn't.

19:56

I was just checking their fitness level. So I was

19:58

doing it. Where are they at? You know? that makes

20:00

another story obviously. But yeah, so I checked

20:02

him out physically and that there was a

20:05

few a long way off and I said,

20:07

right, we've got to correct that organizationally and

20:09

tried to give him some roles and responsibilities

20:11

that were clear, you know, and starting off

20:14

without the ball, you know, because they were

20:16

conceding goals all over the place and won't

20:18

score into him. I didn't really manage to

20:20

correct the score inside, but as you know,

20:23

being a striker, the hardest thing of the

20:25

world scored a goal. But we certainly corrected

20:27

the. the the field of the team you know

20:29

there was an edge where we slowly built

20:31

an edge where you thought hang on ever

20:34

and they're not easy anymore you know you're

20:36

gonna have to fight to beat them you

20:38

know what I mean and so we kind

20:40

of ground our way through to the end

20:42

of the season and then of course final

20:44

game of season comes we've got no

20:46

players we've got no center forwards and

20:48

we've got to go to a five

20:50

at the back and trust me it's

20:52

the most one of the most torturous

20:55

arduous weeks in my career that's for

20:57

sure What do you know what? Do

20:59

you know what? There's a lot of

21:01

reasons why. No, do you know, I'll

21:03

give you a memory, right? There's a

21:05

lot of reason why I commend the

21:07

Everton fans and even though, you know,

21:09

a lot, you know, very Marmite with

21:11

them, I think they'll be some

21:14

respect me, they'll be some won't.

21:16

I've got no problem with it.

21:18

The one thing, massive respect them.

21:21

Lester went up just, it was

21:23

almost like, no, no. just get

21:25

on with the team, let's get

21:27

on the game. It was like

21:29

they didn't flinch, even though they

21:31

knew, they all knew. And at

21:33

half time we knew, of course,

21:35

but then you go, right, come

21:37

on, stick with a plan, you

21:39

know, we did. And of course

21:42

it all turned around, but I

21:44

will, there's a huge amount of

21:46

credit for a fan base to

21:48

not start, you know, with all

21:50

that, oh, oh, it's spread through the team,

21:52

you know. You get in there and you go,

21:54

what and earth? It was like every day there

21:56

was another bomb going off. It was like, goodness

21:58

me. I say that sure. Was there a

22:00

point where when you went in there

22:02

you thought, what have I done here?

22:04

No, not really because I wasn't expecting

22:07

it to be a walk in the

22:09

park. I think that the hardest

22:11

thing was worse than you thought.

22:13

Yeah, the hardest, well the points

22:15

for example, yeah, the hardest, well

22:17

the points for example, I had

22:19

no clue any of that was

22:21

coming. Yeah, so, no, but I

22:23

mean not even in England, everyone

22:25

thought I knew and I didn't

22:27

know. Do you think the club

22:29

knew? But no, that was a

22:31

real eye open to that one.

22:33

And then the second points was

22:35

like, you've got to be kidding

22:37

me. You know, we were like,

22:39

you've got to be kidding me.

22:41

So that was a real, a

22:43

real knock. I wouldn't change it.

22:45

You know, I wouldn't change it.

22:47

It was hard, really hard. Every

22:50

day there seemed to be a

22:52

problem. I remember Billy Mercer, he

22:54

came in a bit later. And

22:56

June preseason, he went. Caffeze

22:59

it like this every day and I went,

23:01

what do you mean? He went like problems

23:03

every day and went, oh yeah, yeah. So

23:05

it's just standard, yeah. It's just every single

23:07

day, there's another problem. And not that many

23:09

solutions, you just have to find a solution.

23:11

So yeah, so it's a really, really hard, a

23:13

really hard situation to manage the whole lot

23:15

and then to try and... You know that's why I

23:17

mean I do laugh at it go you know you can

23:20

imagine and I know it's pundits jobs and I've got no

23:22

problem with it you know me I've got a good relationship

23:24

motion with the media but they're going you're not playing the

23:26

right way you're not doing this you're not going you don't

23:28

even know the halve it you don't know the half of

23:30

what I'm managing it you know I mean this this is

23:33

a colossal massive problem going on.

23:35

It's a shit show. Yeah, and

23:37

they're like, oh yeah, but you

23:39

know, you know, you didn't roll

23:41

it around the six-hour live four

23:44

times and I'm like, really? That's

23:46

the least of my worries, trust

23:48

me. So I was like, you

23:50

know. Does it frustrate you, the

23:52

kind of criticism you get of

23:55

the way you're supposed stylist? It

23:57

seems to me. You mentioned it.

23:59

I mean, they grow out of nowhere.

24:01

Yeah. You know, I've never asked. Well,

24:04

I tell you a funny version of

24:06

it, because you know him. So, I

24:08

didn't even remember a number of years

24:10

ago, Merce made a comment about me

24:12

managing an Arsenal. I got a Hummed

24:14

for it. No, I got Hummed for

24:16

it. And I was like, I haven't

24:19

even said anything. Nobody said anything. Nobody

24:21

said anything. I didn't say a word.

24:23

So that's my point about myths. They

24:25

just grow out and nothing. It's just

24:27

like. My next question, do you think

24:29

you could manage Arsenal? Of course,

24:31

I think I could manage anyone,

24:34

I don't know tell you. I

24:36

don't have stuff with... Exactly. A

24:38

lack of confidence, Gary, that's as

24:40

sure. No, no, no. You can't,

24:42

you can't, you'd shrivel, wouldn't you?

24:44

Because I mean, what's the, what's the

24:47

difference between being a footballer, a player,

24:49

and a manager and a coach? Oh

24:51

goodness, radical differences. As a player, although

24:53

I felt as a team player, you've

24:55

still got deep down, you've got to

24:57

look after yourself, you know that, you've

24:59

got to make sure that your, I

25:02

don't know, your performance is your contract,

25:04

your diet, your health, your mental health,

25:06

all that sort of stuff. As a

25:08

manager, it's constant, you know, you... You're

25:10

managing the team, but then you've got

25:12

to manage the team behind the team,

25:14

don't forget it. Because nowadays, you got,

25:17

when I went into ever, and the

25:19

staff was enormous compared to Burnley, because

25:21

we'd, we'd handpicked our staff at Burnley,

25:23

kept it quite a lean, mean sort

25:25

of situation. Oh no, never. There's,

25:27

there's stuff everywhere. So you've got

25:30

to manage the staff behind the team

25:32

and then you've got to manage the team and

25:34

keep them all aligned by the way. You know.

25:36

and that's on the inside and then you've

25:38

got to manage the noise on the outside

25:40

as you know so it gets it's a

25:42

big job. It's almost 24-7 hour wooden merchant

25:44

what describe perhaps a typical day I'm sure

25:46

people would be fascinated a typical day in

25:48

a coach's life obviously there's a training session

25:50

yeah but yeah I can't give you a

25:53

run now go on give you well firstly

25:55

in reverse or you as you get older

25:57

and wiser you delegate you delegate better so

25:59

you do delegate that I've delegated more and

26:01

more and more as I've got older and

26:03

of course when you trust your staff and

26:05

my staff had been with me or the

26:07

hardcore staff who I bought in had been

26:09

with me for a number of years so

26:11

you know I could I could let them

26:13

do all their things. A standard day getting

26:16

let's say eight o'clock and usually go

26:18

in the gym just to make sure

26:20

I'm looking after myself a bit of breakfast

26:22

nine o'clock staff meeting. It could

26:24

be, some days it's funny, some days

26:27

it's just banners, some days it's deadly

26:29

serious. Would that be to plan the

26:31

training sessions? Well, it'll be the fit

26:33

list, first of all, with the medics. Planning

26:35

the training session, what the goal

26:37

of the training session is, sometimes

26:39

just a very generic one, as

26:41

you know, sometimes you're just fluffing,

26:43

keeping them going, sometimes a fitness day,

26:46

sometimes it's a tactical day. different

26:48

individuals then saying right who needs an

26:50

individual whether it's a chat and

26:52

analysis session or whatever then training

26:54

as you say then we'd normally we

26:56

wouldn't have a heavy debrief about

26:58

training it'd be quite relaxed we'd be

27:01

in the staff room just saying

27:03

oh what did we think of that

27:05

that what did we think of him

27:07

him him you know how did that

27:09

go then it'd be early on in

27:11

the week it'd be some pre-prept work

27:13

against the opposition so on a Monday

27:15

if we're in it would be a

27:17

debrief as well So cutting clips and

27:19

showing the players or sometimes just chat

27:21

with the players. Tuesday would be pre-tactical

27:23

sessions for the weekend come in, but

27:25

the staff would take that in the

27:27

afternoons. Usually a bit of, you know,

27:29

like say a soft debris, then usually

27:31

stuff with Kevin Fellwell or well Everton

27:33

about players and transfers and all that

27:35

sort of stuff. Wednesday would normally be a

27:38

down day, but although I'll say down day

27:40

is still stuff going on. Thursday morning, same

27:42

sort of snow, gym and all that sort

27:45

of stuff, and then after training would be

27:47

the press, so the media would be big

27:49

there, as you know, the media everyone was

27:51

big, and obviously there's fires going off constantly,

27:54

so just mainly putting fires out. And then

27:56

in the evening we'd try and have a

27:58

staff drink and a... Is that a superstitious

28:01

thing? No, no, no, no, no, no,

28:03

no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

28:05

no, no, no, no, no, no, when

28:07

we could, which only the hardcore staff,

28:10

because, like say me, won't he stone,

28:12

he made he billard stay over. Now

28:14

and again one of the other staff had joined

28:16

us a few beers and a curry not so

28:18

curry but I do like a curry so not

28:21

Who does it and then Friday? Yeah, and then

28:23

Friday be pre-planning for the game and well some

28:25

of Thursday would be and then Friday be pre-planning

28:27

for the game set pieces that sort of stuff

28:29

so very very days, but they do have roughly

28:31

a framework to them And then Sundays I'd always

28:34

try and give Sundays off unless you've got a

28:36

game. Because I think mental rest is big for

28:38

me. I mean I know a lot of money

28:40

is having been virtually every day now doing warm

28:42

downs and all that. I think mentally to get

28:44

away from it. A day off should be a day off

28:46

where you're not, you know, you're doing your own thing. What

28:49

was it like when you got... fired from from

28:51

Everton there. I mean, it was kind

28:53

of a tough season. You're talking about

28:55

you putting fires out all the time.

28:58

Did you sense that coming? Because it

29:00

came at a really, really odd time,

29:02

didn't it? Just before a game. What

29:05

happened there? But no, that was more

29:07

the process of trying to iron out

29:09

the details, I think, or anything. It

29:12

wasn't as bad as it looks. Everyone

29:14

knew roughly what was going on. It

29:16

was just making the final decisions. you

29:19

know contractual decisions financial decisions all that

29:21

sort of stuff from that from them not

29:23

from me but from the club and so

29:25

yeah it wasn't it was all planned trust me the

29:27

thing I pride myself in is my professionalism the team

29:29

the team the set pieces were done we handed it

29:31

all over to the to Bainse in and shame as everyone

29:33

knew everything. They all knew the timing, everything was prepped.

29:35

It started on the sundial, a chapter, Kevin fell, well I

29:38

went, look, the players look like the weight of it's

29:40

got too much from, I said, I've shown that, but

29:42

the weight of it, and it just got too much, the

29:44

pressure was coming on, and a few of them was

29:46

struggling. And I said, so, I think you should leave this

29:48

in a better place, or when I got it, and it,

29:50

and it is in a better, and it is in a better, and it is

29:52

in a better, and it is in a better, and it is in a better, and

29:54

it, and it is, and it is, and it is, and it is in a, in a, and it

29:56

is, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in

29:58

a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, I did put there in

30:01

good shape and I got bad for it.

30:03

I can defend you on that. Well, I

30:05

can defend you on that. Well, I can't,

30:07

but David Moyes. I spoke to David Moyes

30:09

on match of the day a few weeks

30:11

ago. Obviously it's gone really well for David

30:13

so far. Yes, absolutely. And I spoke to

30:15

him and he's, and I was saying, you

30:17

know, how have you made a difference? He

30:19

said, well, I've got to say from a

30:22

start. this club has been left in really

30:24

good shape by Sean Dyche. So... No, but

30:26

he's someone I get on with it. He's

30:28

someone I admire as well. I think his

30:30

career, he's took some notes, but I think

30:32

overall he's been brilliant. Yeah. I spoke to

30:34

him, I spoke to him in the process

30:36

of the changeover. And I assured him, I

30:38

said, I said, Moisey, I said, they're in

30:40

good shape mate. I said, but the weight

30:43

of it's got too much and they're what

30:45

I was doing. So, you know. they can

30:47

wear snooge and they can wear white socks

30:49

and notion bats and all that. No rightly

30:51

so because he gives them something different, you

30:53

know. And I said, I said, Moisey, I'm

30:55

telling you, they're that much away from going

30:57

that way again. I said, but they just

30:59

need to unlock themselves. It's got too tight

31:01

and too heavy from them. So he said,

31:03

Sean, terrific. And I said, you love no

31:06

problem. You'll get in there. And I said,

31:08

trust me. I swear to Moise. For one,

31:10

I like him and respect him. But what

31:12

would be the point, Gary, in us doing

31:14

two years graft for it to go that

31:16

way? What would be the point in that?

31:18

You wanted to leave it in a good

31:20

position where they could start that up. It's

31:22

a sign that you've done a good job,

31:24

which is important, because I think a lot

31:27

of people would probably wish ill on a

31:29

club that perhaps fired them. I mean that's

31:31

human nature. I've never done it. I've never

31:33

done it. I've never done it. I've never

31:35

believed it as a player. I never did

31:37

that thing. Get one over on my old

31:39

club. I respected every club I played for.

31:41

Every team I played with and I still

31:43

do. It would pain me to see Everton

31:45

struggle. It would pain me because I got

31:47

what was the point in me grafting out

31:50

amongst many others by the way for two

31:52

years for to see it going down early

31:54

life. I just don't see the point now.

31:56

So there's no gripe from me at all.

31:58

Did Everton Football Club seek your advice on

32:00

who it should? Possibly. Yeah, yeah, they asked

32:02

me. I said, I said, if you'd do

32:04

it, I said to Kevin and to, I

32:06

think it was Mark Watts, who's involved with

32:08

the group, the freaking group, I said, look,

32:11

if he'll do it, in my opinion, I'd

32:13

ring Moise. I'm not sure whether he will

32:15

do it, I'd ring Moise. I'm not sure

32:17

whether he will do it, because I think

32:19

he will, I'm not saying he'll do it.

32:21

I said it, he'll do it. I said,

32:23

I said, I said, I said, I said,

32:25

I said, I said, I said, if I

32:27

said, if I said, if I said, if

32:29

I said, if I said, if I said,

32:32

if I said, if I said, if I

32:34

said, if I said, if I said, if

32:36

I said, if he'd, if he'd, if he'd,

32:38

if he'd, if he'd, if he'd, if he'd,

32:40

if he'd, if he But that's what I'd

32:42

go for. We go, they said, it's only

32:44

fair to tell you that. The reason is

32:46

that before I come out, they were talking

32:48

about all these rumors about me, and I

32:50

went, why shouldn't a club of this size

32:52

or any business this size not be succession

32:55

planning? So that would be ridiculous. So I

32:57

think clubs should be. I think they should

32:59

always be on the look out. You never

33:01

know what could change. So I have no

33:03

problem with it whatsoever. You should always be

33:05

prepared. Do you want to get back in

33:07

short? Yeah, I think so. I don't think

33:09

immediately. I think I'm okay at the minute.

33:11

I'm catching up with a few life things

33:13

and enjoyed a bit of downtime. Send her

33:16

back. My daughter did a fantastic job at

33:18

the Rome Marathon. She ran that first ever

33:20

marathon. So I went to see that. Oh,

33:22

she did amazing. I'm so proud of her.

33:24

And she's doing great Newcastle Union. You know,

33:26

so these things that you can't always get

33:28

time to do. I'm going, when we finish

33:30

you, I'm going for nine, I was at

33:32

golf, you can see me, me shop, bunk,

33:34

a mentality golf where with my assistant won't.

33:36

He's a top player, I'm not, I'm a

33:39

bit of hacker, but he's a top player,

33:41

but he's a top player, won't. Yeah, just

33:43

a few gigs and a bit of beer,

33:45

going to do some media stuff, and yeah.

33:47

But when the bug, when the bug gets

33:49

you. You know, it's like, you just go.

33:51

It seems to be a real bug managing

33:53

because I often think God, it seems like.

33:55

I mean, obviously it's well recompensed, but I

33:57

always think, Christ, it's brutal, it's difficult job.

34:00

You know, you're one minute, you're the hero,

34:02

and then you're the villain, and it must

34:04

be tough. It'd be nice to get a

34:06

little break. Yeah, it is. I mean, I

34:08

don't want to do it forever. I've made

34:10

that clear many times. You know, it's not

34:12

for me forever. I think I've got other

34:14

things that I'm interested in, I've been often

34:16

a lot through the media, a lot through

34:18

the media, which is, which is. and the

34:20

consideration, I want to say I'm going to

34:23

do everything, I'm going to touch in with

34:25

a few things with yourself now and be

34:27

able to talk, sport and things like, you

34:29

know, just drop in and just enjoy it

34:31

really. And then football wise, I wait and

34:33

see what comes around the corner. If it's

34:35

not right, it's not right. If it is

34:37

right, then we'll see where it goes. Yeah,

34:39

it would be great to see you back

34:41

at some way. work? Do you like keep

34:44

an eye on who's maybe struggling? You think,

34:46

hmm, this one might come up. I mean,

34:48

it's huge. I had a rule of somewhere.

34:50

When I come out of Everton, just when

34:52

I'd only been in there about 10 or

34:54

12 games, and I was under pressure, they

34:56

wanted me out, and there was 11 outwork

34:58

managers at one game, and I promised myself

35:00

I'll never do that. So when I came

35:02

out of Watford, sorry, I was living in

35:04

Northampton, I only went to clubs in my

35:07

area or people I knew. So I went

35:09

to Leicester because I knew John Rooking really

35:11

well from the youth days. I went to

35:13

MK Dons because Michael was there at time,

35:15

used to get me tickets, and I used

35:17

to go to Forest because I was there

35:19

as a kid. They're the only three clubs

35:21

I used to go to any other clubs

35:23

because I just think it's bad form, you

35:25

know, you know, and people are... you know

35:28

hanging on the director's room you know you

35:30

know you're under pressure so that's not for

35:32

me. One of those three clubs I mean

35:34

I've got feeling the lesser job might come

35:36

available. Let's say they're struggling a little bit.

35:38

No I can say well it's been a

35:40

tough season so far yeah it's a lot

35:42

of work to do but no so I've

35:44

been down to the forest I've only had

35:46

one game actually well other than my lad

35:48

playing, I went down went Forest

35:51

watch some un City a

35:53

guest of of Nick Randall's chairman

35:55

there. so that was

35:57

nice nice and know relax

35:59

had a couple a beers,

36:01

of game watch the than than

36:03

that that work mode. Yeah, you

36:05

don't want to be to

36:07

be sat in box and

36:09

the camera points to

36:12

you camera points to you and thinking

36:14

about going, oh, he's after that, he's

36:16

don't think I'm Well, the

36:18

way new knows, God, I don't think I'm

36:20

in the shower for forest, not present. I

36:22

was a safe bet now, right. be

36:24

definitely safe. safe.

36:26

been an absolute pleasure talking

36:28

to you to you and discovering you. talking

36:30

about your football career career, as

36:33

a player and a manager.

36:35

Fascinating stuff. Thank you very

36:37

much indeed for joining us.

36:39

us. appreciate it. appreciate it. Goodbye for me.