0:00

can't look to other people to support you for

0:02

you to go do something. If you're saying

0:04

you need to give me this so I can

0:06

do this, they're not the problem. Your thinking

0:08

is the problem. She's

0:10

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0:12

presidents, and she looked after the

0:15

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0:17

master's in forensic psychology, she

0:19

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0:21

girl, Evie Pompore. Ask

0:23

people questions. Drop a question and go

0:25

quiet. Let them reveal themselves to you.

0:27

If you wanna know how to read

0:29

people and if you wanna know to

0:31

gauge who's trustworthy, who's not, who's reliable,

0:33

let them show you. But if you're

0:36

jabbering away, you're not gonna see it.

0:38

The mistake we make is we think

0:40

there's good and there's evil. Evil people

0:42

do bad things. Good people do bad

0:44

things. Good people take advantage.

0:46

Good people will hurt you. What's

0:48

the tell or the question to know

0:50

if someone is really alive? Okay, I'll answer

0:52

this question. Good

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wonderfulpastachios.com to learn more. You have

2:27

really kind of exploded in the

2:29

last three or four years with

2:31

your content. And every

2:33

time you come on my show and the

2:35

content I see online, it's around human performance

2:38

about optimizing yourself it's also

2:40

around human psychology and understanding people

2:42

it's understanding how to influence

2:44

people in a positive way understanding

2:46

when someone's trying to manipulate

2:48

you all these things that you've

2:50

learned through your through your

2:52

studies through real -world experiences you

2:54

know protecting presidents through working in

2:56

secret service all these different

2:58

things I'm curious, what

3:00

is the greatest skill that you've developed

3:03

in the last four years, five years,

3:05

since you've really kind of blown up

3:07

in a bigger way of all the

3:09

interviews and the content you do on

3:11

TV? What is the biggest skill

3:13

you've developed in the last four or five

3:15

years for yourself that has continued to

3:17

help you thrive personally? Because

3:19

you had tons of skills when you were

3:21

working in the field, but what about in these

3:23

last four or five years? It's

3:26

hard to say if it's just one thing.

3:28

I think it's been a few things. One

3:31

is I let things be. I

3:35

don't try very hard to analyze or understand.

3:37

I was listening to your story before about

3:39

the million dollars, somebody owing it to you.

3:41

And it's very easy to get in that

3:43

rabbit hole and all these things come in.

3:45

And I've learned to kind of, I don't

3:47

want to say surrender, but just let things

3:50

be. And instead

3:52

of not getting sucked

3:54

in the dwelling thing, I'm

3:56

like, all right. There's a lesson for me

3:59

to learn here. That's one

4:01

thing, like not trying so hard, not

4:03

chasing things so hard. I've learned that

4:05

the harder you chase, it's like a

4:07

frenzy and it doesn't work. And when

4:09

you kind of step back and you're

4:11

like, I'm just gonna let it happen.

4:13

I'm not saying don't do the work,

4:15

you have to do the work. And

4:17

I think that's the other thing you

4:19

have to put in the work. And

4:22

I don't, you know what else I

4:25

don't do? I don't compare myself to

4:27

other people. Really? No. How

4:29

have you learned that? Because that's hard for a lot

4:31

of people. The moment I

4:33

start to do it, I stop. And

4:35

this is, I've never said this. I'll say

4:37

this here. I've never watched

4:39

anybody else's podcast interview. Ever.

4:44

What do you mean? Not that I don't like your show.

4:46

It's a great show. I watch the

4:48

clips. I watch the clips. So

4:50

for example, so I've done podcast

4:52

interviews, right? Your show. I

4:54

won't sit and watch somebody else's, because I

4:56

don't want it to get into my

4:58

head. Because then I start doing, oh, they

5:00

did this, or I should say this

5:02

or that. And to be frank, I actually

5:04

learned this in Secret Service training from

5:06

shooting. Because when you would

5:08

shoot, they'd like line you up, and

5:10

the targets were really close to each

5:12

other. I mean, safety, like, within reason. But...

5:17

could see everybody's target and it was

5:19

very easy for your eyes to go

5:21

to the other person's target and you

5:24

start to kind of psych yourself out

5:26

Oh, he is his host perfect and

5:28

mine sucks and you might think like

5:30

well What's the big deal? It is

5:32

a big deal because when there's 40

5:34

special agents watching everybody else they're like

5:36

she sucks I'm not gonna take her

5:38

out with me or he's not this

5:41

or they look like a mess so

5:43

you start to care so I Don't

5:45

Lewis as I Move up. I'm very

5:47

careful And when I look at other

5:49

people's content, I look and I move

5:51

on. And that's a really big thing.

5:53

And I don't try to do what

5:55

other people do. And sometimes I have

5:58

people hit me up and they'll say, how

6:01

can I be a better speaker? And you

6:03

were talking about that before, or how can I

6:05

be a better interviewer on my podcast? And

6:08

I want to sound like this person. And

6:10

I'm like, stop. watching

6:13

what other people do. If you want

6:15

to mess with your head, look at

6:17

what everybody else is doing and then

6:19

compare it to you. And then now

6:21

instead of you being just like genuine

6:23

and authentic, you're trying to do what

6:25

other people do and that doesn't work.

6:27

And I really feel like that's the

6:29

biggest thing. Even when I go on

6:32

the news, I cover news here at

6:34

30 Rock for NBC. I cover law

6:36

enforcement and crime. I'll

6:38

listen to the other news anchors,

6:40

but I'm always very careful when

6:42

I listen to other commentators to

6:44

really just be like, just do

6:46

your thing, just do your thing. It's

6:50

interesting you say that because... It's interesting

6:52

you say that because when I launched

6:54

the School of Gravis over 12 years

6:56

ago, I remember saying to myself, I

6:58

don't want to hear another podcast. I

7:00

don't want to listen to any podcast

7:02

because I don't want to be influenced

7:04

on what other people are doing. And

7:06

I just said to myself, If I

7:08

wanted to listen to a show, how

7:10

would I want it to sound for

7:12

me? Like, what would I want? Not

7:15

trying to mimic everyone else. And I think

7:17

it really served me well because I was like,

7:19

okay, I want the intro music to be

7:21

positive. I want it to be this. I want

7:23

to start this way. And I want the

7:25

flow to be a certain way. And so I

7:27

didn't have any, I guess, judgment about what

7:29

other shows did. And it's funny

7:31

because I actually just listened to an

7:33

episode of a more of a scripted

7:36

show, which I usually don't listen to.

7:38

But I listened to it and I

7:40

was like, oh, that's interesting. And I

7:42

could, and I could, I saw myself

7:44

comparing myself to a scripted show on

7:46

how they use their music and this

7:48

and the voice acting and all that

7:50

stuff. And I think it was also,

7:52

it being out of my industry, being

7:54

on a scripted show, actually it was

7:56

like okay with it because it was

7:58

adjacent, but it wasn't in my kind

8:00

of interview world. And so I was

8:02

able to get some inspiration without being

8:04

too judgmental of myself. and kind of

8:06

say, how can I pull from this

8:08

industry into my industry? So I

8:10

thought that was also something that was good. But when

8:12

I launched the show, I didn't listen to any podcast.

8:15

And it was really helpful for me. But I

8:17

also think, what about having a

8:19

mentor, though? You had coaches and

8:21

guides who you probably looked up to

8:23

in Secret Service and Training that

8:25

had a certain level of success, right?

8:27

So don't we want to also

8:29

have certain mentors or coaches or people

8:32

we can get feedback from without

8:34

comparing to, but guiding us? So

8:36

I'm gonna be honest. I've

8:38

never had a mentor. I've

8:40

never had one. I actually didn't even

8:42

know what the word meant for a

8:44

long long time until it became popular.

8:46

So I never had someone where I

8:49

was like, oh, I want to be

8:51

like that. I didn't have that. So

8:53

maybe I didn't know what I was

8:55

missing. But you had coaches, right? Or

8:57

people that were like training you in

8:59

the field. Louis, they're not coaches. like

9:01

drilling you to the ground. They're trying

9:03

to you fail. Louis

9:06

thinks it's like, hey, you go. They're

9:08

more like, you're a loser. You're this. You

9:11

suck. Quit now. Quit. Quit. You're

9:13

going to get somebody killed. They

9:15

were the opposite of men. They were the

9:17

opposite. The first time I did, when I

9:19

joined the NYPD, which was before they built

9:21

the new academy, which is really nice, I

9:24

went to the rinky dinky one. It was

9:26

attached to the one three precinct down in

9:28

the 20s from my New Yorkers, if you

9:30

know where that is. And there's things like

9:32

the stairwells are caving in. It's like a

9:34

dump. There was like. It was wild but

9:36

there was a gym and the gym had

9:38

this green line and it was like the

9:40

green line of death and they would have

9:42

you run this line 25 times. 25 times

9:44

was a mile and a half and like

9:46

that was one of the test markers they

9:48

would do and you would run this line

9:50

and they have you run it ranks and

9:52

you had to put your arm out so

9:54

it was like shoulder to shoulder. I couldn't

9:56

fall back and then the person behind me

9:58

couldn't fall back because it was just like

10:00

this whole ranking system. If you fell back

10:02

a little They would pull you out, they

10:04

would yank you out, and then it's not

10:06

like they feel bad for you. They put

10:08

you in the middle, and then they have

10:10

you run suicides back and forth across this

10:12

huge gym. I mean, people would, I would

10:14

see grown men go, like, puke, go over

10:16

to the trash can puke, and then they'd

10:18

be like, get back in there. So

10:21

the first time, like, I

10:23

was in a great runner. I

10:25

never really had to run before I went to the

10:27

academy. So my first

10:30

run, I fall out. I'm what

10:32

they call a fallout. And they yank me

10:34

out. I will never get the instructor. She was

10:36

like, and who's a woman? You think women,

10:38

women? She was like, come on, drama queen, get

10:40

out. Where

10:42

is this coming from? And I'm

10:44

doing my runs, my suicide runs. I'm

10:46

heaving. And then they

10:48

have me in the other fallouts,

10:51

stand in the middle. The run's done. They

10:53

make everybody in the gym do an about

10:55

face to look at the center. And you're

10:57

looking at about maybe 500 people. And

11:00

they get in there and they're like, do

11:02

you see these people here in the middle? They're

11:05

going to get you killed. So when

11:07

you all go in the locker room downstairs

11:09

to change, you tell them they need

11:11

to quit. You

11:15

all should not be here. Get

11:17

out. So this is where

11:19

my coach is, Luis. Interesting. When

11:22

you have people trying to get you

11:24

to quit and that's their job, how do

11:26

you learn to have self -respect or believe

11:28

in yourself that you're capable of what

11:30

they're not telling you to do? When

11:33

I started in NYPD and I

11:35

joined I was very naive. I

11:37

was like NYPD Academy. It'll be

11:39

like college. I'm like, it'll be

11:41

fine. I just survived college and

11:43

I was very wrong. They're paramilitary

11:45

structures. So I was very a

11:47

novice. I knew nobody in the

11:49

military. I knew nobody in

11:51

law enforcement. So when I went

11:53

that first week and everyone's yelling

11:55

at you, they're talking to you

11:57

like your garbage. That's

12:00

just the way it was. I

12:02

remember that first week being, what

12:04

did I do? And then

12:06

My family too was not supportive at

12:08

all. They thought I was bonkers. All

12:10

my friends thought I was nuts. So

12:12

I was really, really very alone in

12:14

that moment. And I had one friend

12:17

who had, he had done wrestling. He, sports

12:19

when he was in high school. And he's like,

12:22

and I remember being upset. He's like, and I

12:24

was like, I'm going to quit. And he said to

12:26

me, don't quit. It's a game. It's

12:28

a game. And I'm like, what do

12:30

you mean it's a game? I didn't understand.

12:32

He's like, that's what they do. They

12:34

wear you out. And they want people to

12:36

quit. They want the week to quit.

12:38

So the strong stay. And he's like, don't

12:40

let them win. And I stuck it

12:42

out. And every day got a little bit

12:44

easier and a little bit easier and

12:46

a little bit easier. But yeah, you go

12:48

in there, you feel like a loser. You

12:51

do. You feel like you're weak. You

12:54

know you're you're in front -leaning

12:56

rest for for nothing I remember

12:58

somebody's phone went off and my

13:00

company was called a company like

13:02

in the back instructor Here's it

13:04

and he's like everybody get down

13:06

and they put us in front -leaning

13:08

rest for something like 30 minutes

13:11

So that is a plank or

13:13

something or a plank, okay, but

13:15

a really horrible one Wow So

13:17

it was I had to really

13:19

endure that and then you know

13:21

when you go to the the

13:23

US Secret Service Academy again like

13:25

everyone's looking at you going and

13:27

that that's even more curated. NYPD

13:29

1500 uh people in my class

13:32

NYPD cadets first months 300 quit

13:34

well they were happy to see

13:36

you go they're like bye bye

13:38

bye bye don't come back they

13:40

didn't care and then NYPD now

13:42

I went to a class of

13:44

50 excuse me Secret Service 54

13:46

and now like you're really seeing

13:48

And there they they did they

13:51

invested in you because it was

13:53

a much more lengthy process And

13:55

they did want to see you

13:57

succeed, but at the same time

13:59

they're like hey man, if you

14:01

can't cut it There's the door

14:03

and so you really have to

14:05

endure and not and sometimes People

14:07

may not want you there and

14:09

then that's another obstacle, but every

14:12

day everybody seeing

14:14

what you do. And even grades, like they

14:16

would post scores up so people could see

14:18

it. So there was no, yeah,

14:20

it's no, no. So

14:23

you're, it's also the shame that

14:25

you don't want of not performing.

14:27

So it's not just for yourself.

14:29

It's like everybody seeing you not

14:31

do what you need to do.

14:34

I mean, so, I mean, I know

14:36

there's people here who've had maybe parents that

14:38

didn't believe in them or siblings that were

14:40

putting them down or just didn't

14:42

have good experiences as adults where people

14:44

weren't empowering them. So how did you learn

14:46

to feel empowered when people were trying

14:48

to force you to quit? They wanted you

14:50

to be humiliated. They wanted you to

14:53

look bad. They were happy if

14:55

you failed. How did you stay, I

14:57

guess, confident or believing that you were

14:59

above it? And created an environment of,

15:01

I'm okay, no matter what they think.

15:03

So there's kind of two lanes. One

15:05

lane is it's people that love you

15:07

and care about you, but don't support

15:09

you. And then the other lane is

15:12

people that maybe envy you or jealous

15:14

of you, do want your harm. This

15:16

lane here, they need to not be

15:18

in your life. And the moment you

15:20

realize that, you don't have to tell

15:22

them, but you should start to fade

15:24

out. You know who

15:26

those folks are, and you don't need to be

15:28

like, hey, you know what? Save it. Save

15:32

it, because you need that energy so that you can go

15:34

do what you need to do. Right

15:36

the the point is

15:38

to fade out and then

15:40

before you know it

15:43

they you're not there anymore

15:45

And they're like where'd

15:47

she go? I've been gone

15:49

months The other lane

15:51

is that people that you

15:53

really want to support

15:55

you and you want them

15:57

to do that for

15:59

you, but they Forgive them

16:03

My parents were immigrants. My mother grew

16:05

up in a village like literally

16:07

a village dirt poor I mean the

16:09

bathroom was in the Forest and

16:11

when I was a kid and I

16:13

would go visit like it was

16:15

a hole in the ground and the

16:18

shock next to the chicken coop

16:20

Right and so my mother group do

16:22

it poor my father group very

16:24

poor dirt poor They were from Greece

16:26

so they couldn't So

16:30

they couldn't understand what I

16:32

was doing. They didn't understand

16:35

it. My brother, he's like, can

16:37

go be a cop. You know, he

16:39

didn't like cops. I didn't even like

16:41

him. But life takes you

16:44

in a weird path. So

16:46

I just learned, like, forgive

16:48

them. But, you

16:50

know, I'm going to be transparent

16:52

with you. Like, you

16:54

can't look to other people to support

16:56

you for you to go do something. It's

16:59

nice if you can get it, but

17:01

like if you're saying you need to give

17:03

me this so I can do this, they're

17:05

not the problem. Your

17:08

thinking is the problem. Can you explain

17:10

more of that? Too

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19:46

is, I'm not going to do this

19:48

because I don't have support. My mom's

19:50

not behind me. My dad's not behind

19:52

me. This person is supporting me. My

19:54

friends are making fun of me. So

19:56

what I just did is I made

19:58

these external factors, the deciding factors of

20:00

whether I do something or not. And

20:03

then, you know, and we've all

20:05

been there, we listen to other people,

20:07

myself included, and then we are

20:09

pissed. Why did I listen to

20:11

this person? And then we're mad at them.

20:13

Uh -uh. We have

20:15

to be mad at ourselves and

20:17

be like, I chose to listen.

20:20

And so I had to learn over

20:22

time, don't listen. And you also

20:24

know intuitively, if it feels like you

20:26

need to go this way, then

20:28

just go. And if you're wrong, you're

20:31

wrong. Like if you fail, you

20:33

fail. I'll share the story with

20:35

you, because as you were talking, I was

20:37

thinking about when you were sharing all the ways

20:39

in which you failed or you didn't feel

20:41

right. Before I went to

20:43

the NYPD, I actually took

20:45

a test to be a probationary,

20:48

not a police officer, to work as a

20:50

probation officer. And I started leaning into

20:52

law enforcement. I really wanted the job. It

20:54

was going to be my first real

20:56

job out of college. And I was like,

20:58

so I get a date and time

21:01

to go take the test. I go to

21:03

Brooklyn. I won't forget it. I'm super

21:05

nervous because I'm like, wow, this is like

21:07

a real job. You know, again, I

21:09

came from very... labor background, my parents, you

21:11

know. And so I showed up to

21:13

take this test, and I'm really, really nervous to take

21:15

this test. And I'm taking the test, and they asked

21:17

us a question, and I had to write an essay,

21:19

but I was so nervous. I had

21:21

a hard time writing my essay. Times up,

21:23

I didn't do a good job. And I

21:25

knew it. I'm like, I failed this thing.

21:28

And sure enough, I failed it.

21:31

Fast forward. a

21:33

couple of months, a couple of

21:35

maybe weeks ahead. The woman who

21:37

gave it to us, there was a woman who

21:39

gave us the test, like the proctor. I go

21:41

to a wedding and I see her. Now she's

21:43

a probationary officer and I see her at a

21:45

wedding and I'm like, oh my gosh, that's the

21:47

woman that gave me the test. So I muster

21:49

up my courage because I felt shame because I

21:51

failed it. She failed you. She failed me, but

21:53

I failed myself because I didn't do a good

21:56

job on that test. So. I go

21:58

up to her and I'm like, hi, I'm

22:00

so -and -so. I took the test a couple

22:02

of weeks ago. I didn't do very well.

22:04

Hopefully I'll get a second chance. But I just

22:06

wanted to come over and say hello, despite

22:08

feeling that shame. And

22:10

I turn, you know, she shakes my

22:12

hand. She gives me one of

22:14

those. I

22:16

turn around, I walk away. Now my

22:18

mom, who's seated at a table across, my

22:20

mom's like a very, I don't want

22:22

to say naive, but like she's just not,

22:24

she doesn't look for negative things. I

22:26

go back. And my mom says to me,

22:28

come here. Who

22:30

was that? And I said, oh, that was

22:33

a woman who proctored the exam. She

22:35

was the recruiter, the one that didn't do

22:37

well. She's like, the moment you turned

22:39

your back, she was laughing at you with

22:41

her table and saying stuff about you.

22:43

Why? And I

22:45

remember, I remember, I was like, because

22:47

I failed and I didn't do well

22:49

on that test. And she's probably looking

22:51

at like, who's this dits? Who thinks

22:53

she's going to go into this field?

22:56

You know? So, can that crush you?

22:58

Sure, I'd be lying if I didn't

23:00

say, like, I felt shame. But then

23:02

there's also this other part of you

23:04

that's just, like, onward.

23:07

You know? And so, from

23:09

that, I became a Secret Service agent. So,

23:11

very... There you go. There you go. I'm

23:18

curious about this, because I know there's a lot

23:20

of givers in this room. People that want to

23:22

give generously and have a lot of love in

23:24

their hearts and just think everyone, or maybe not

23:26

in New York, but think everyone's positive. Growing

23:29

up in Ohio, I was just like, ah, everyone's a good

23:31

person. But then I moved to New York, and I was

23:33

like, OK, it's a different vibe. Got

23:35

to get that thick skin up in here. But people

23:37

are good. Yeah, I'm just teasing. But

23:39

as a master of

23:41

human behavior, human psychology, human

23:44

nature, how

23:46

How do you think people can really

23:48

understand if someone's being a giver

23:50

and generous with trying to meet them

23:52

or connect with them, whether it

23:54

be intimately or career business wise, versus

23:56

actually wanting to take something from

23:58

that person? How can you if

24:00

someone's really a giver when they

24:02

connect with you or they really have

24:04

a different agenda? So

24:07

this is where the naiveness comes in.

24:09

We project onto others what we think

24:11

they are because of what's in our

24:13

heart. I'm a giver,

24:15

so everybody is. In

24:18

my background, in

24:20

the US Secret Service, I was

24:22

a polygraph examiner and interrogator. They

24:24

sent me to do the lie

24:26

detector test, and I would help

24:28

the US Secret Service and local

24:30

police. And I'd also

24:33

go overseas to interview

24:35

people who committed crimes. The

24:38

mistake we make is we

24:41

think there's good and there's

24:43

evil. Evil people do bad

24:45

things. Good

24:47

people do bad things. Good

24:50

people take advantage. Good people

24:52

will hurt you. And so

24:54

the thing that I hear people and

24:56

the mistake is they're so nice. Oh,

24:58

he's such a nice guy or she's such

25:00

a nice person. know, I don't understand what

25:03

happened. Don't

25:05

do that. Just

25:09

don't do that. Don't do that. But can't you

25:11

go on the, but then you have to always be

25:13

on guard with everyone you meet? You need to

25:15

be aware. You need to have your brain

25:17

on. You can't turn

25:19

it off because you're like, oh, everyone's

25:21

great because it's not, it's, there's

25:23

a naiveness to it. And that's on

25:25

you. Like it just isn't, it's

25:27

just the truth. And so when

25:29

you live in that reality and

25:32

you look at people, even if they're

25:34

nice, a nice person can hurt

25:36

you. A nice person can take advantage

25:38

of you. Good people do these

25:40

things. So I always tell people, look

25:42

at the behavior. If that relationship

25:44

becomes imbalanced, so if you become the

25:46

giver, giver, giver, they're taking, taking,

25:48

taking, you've helped create that imbalance. You

25:50

also play a role in that. You

25:53

also play a role in that.

25:55

And if you keep giving because

25:57

you're thinking, oh, I'll eventually get

25:59

back. Pause and stop. People show

26:01

you. Pay attention. I always say

26:03

look at the behavior of the

26:05

person. Don't label people. Label the

26:07

behavior. Labels are for clothing. Label

26:12

what they show you. They

26:14

will show you. So if it

26:17

becomes one way which you

26:19

help to foster and that's okay.

26:21

Correct it and then pull

26:23

back. You know and even today

26:25

I'm always aware. It's not that I don't

26:28

You know, I don't want to

26:30

believe in people I do

26:32

but it's kind of like President

26:34

Reagan used to say this

26:37

trust but verify So Let's say

26:39

you started some type of

26:41

giving taking relationship It doesn't matter

26:43

if it's intimate or career

26:45

or whatever, but you meet someone

26:48

and they're they're taking your

26:50

giving how can you Start

26:52

to make it shift so you can feel

26:54

better without being a jerk or saying you

26:56

never give me anything in return and people

26:58

like you're they're supposed to give you something

27:00

in return. How can you shift that energy?

27:02

It depends what you want. If it's that

27:04

much of a taker. Goodbye.

27:07

Yeah. like you can't change people and

27:09

people people will see people and we're like

27:11

oh they have the potential it's not

27:13

do they have the potential what could it

27:15

be what it was it's like what

27:17

do you have now you must live in

27:20

truth what is the reality not what

27:22

you wish it to be not what you

27:24

want it to be not what it

27:26

was but not what they could be and

27:28

at the same time allow people to

27:30

be what they are this is what I

27:32

have what do I want to do

27:34

with it But we try so hard. I'm

27:36

going to this I'm going to shift

27:38

I'm I'm gonna do that and then that's

27:41

gonna yield me this you're 50 % of

27:43

the equation But they're the other 50

27:45

and they've got their own brain their own

27:47

intuition their own intentions their own whatever

27:49

is going on and Then we're gonna come

27:51

in and what? And

27:53

a little bit like how narcissistic of that

27:55

of us is that to think like oh,

27:57

I can do this Let people be what

28:00

they want to be now if they want

28:02

to shift and change to have a better

28:04

relationship with you because you want to make

28:06

that investment, make it. But some

28:08

people don't. Leave them. And then now

28:10

you have a choice. Do I keep

28:12

you in my life? Okay. If

28:15

I don't keep you, goodbye. If

28:17

I do keep you, how much do I keep

28:19

you or how much do I interact with you so

28:21

that I am also healthy? Right?

28:29

I'm curious. you noticed differences? from

28:31

working in governments or working

28:33

in the Secret Service world versus,

28:36

I guess, working in the

28:38

civilian world afterwards and how people

28:40

act and interact? Oh, yeah. What's

28:43

the difference between the government world versus

28:45

civilian world? Well, I can't say government because

28:47

it's a big word. You know, I

28:49

can say US Secret Service because everyone's right.

28:53

But like, I'll give you an example. If a

28:55

special agent said to me, Evie, I'll call

28:57

you tomorrow at nine. They called me

28:59

tomorrow at nine. If a special

29:01

agent was like, I'll meet you there at 9,

29:03

they were there at 8 .50. Or

29:06

in the civilian

29:08

world, it's like... I

29:10

forgot. I went by

29:12

Starbucks. You know,

29:14

I overslept. Like, you

29:16

showed up. Like, you...

29:18

You showed up. And

29:20

also, there was a

29:22

lot less personal stuff.

29:26

Like, you didn't bring your baggage with you

29:28

everywhere you went. Really? You

29:32

burden other people. It's

29:35

okay to go to people

29:37

for guidance once in a while,

29:40

but it's also how much are you going? How

29:42

much are you taking from people? So

29:44

if I come in with all my problems to work, you're

29:46

just like, I don't want to stand next. I'm going to

29:48

get one right in the head because she's going to be

29:50

thinking about, you got to be

29:53

on the ball. So you got to

29:55

perform. Also, like

29:57

sick leave did not exist.

30:00

never called out sick, at least on the

30:02

president's detail. You never called

30:04

out sick. Sickly was something you

30:06

scheduled. So

30:09

if you were sick, you

30:11

showed up either sick to the White House and maybe

30:13

they would send you home. Or

30:16

you were in the hospital. You

30:19

could not call out sick because if I

30:21

called out sick, the whole system

30:23

or structure that was created would

30:25

collapse. Just one player

30:27

not there. So you showed up.

30:29

So in the civilian world, not

30:32

everybody shows up. So you choose who

30:34

you're going to be. You could look

30:36

at other people like, but they do

30:38

that. I don't care

30:40

about them. Yeah. Like

30:42

it's always like, what's your integrity?

30:44

What's your character? You show people

30:46

who you are. So when people

30:49

know that. You're the person who's going

30:51

to show up. It's actually competence. When

30:53

they know you're going to be there,

30:56

you're reliable, you're consistent. You

30:58

do what you're going to say

31:00

you're going to do. That

31:02

is huge. People today always call me

31:04

up and they tell me all sorts of

31:06

stuff. I have people come to me

31:08

and if I need something, people always deliver.

31:10

And I was thinking about this. I'm

31:12

like, why is that? Why is it that

31:14

if I ask somebody to call me,

31:16

my phone rings? Or if I call someone,

31:18

they answer on the first ring. And

31:20

I'm like, you know what? I'm like,

31:22

because I brought that integrity and ethos

31:24

with me, and they're like, I

31:26

know she will come through. And

31:29

I think that's kind of the

31:31

difference from the civilian world. Not

31:33

everybody's like that, but those are the

31:35

differences I see. How do you navigate

31:37

it then, you know, being in the,

31:39

I guess, the public world more rather

31:42

than the private world where you're... pulled

31:44

in a lot of directions, you're building

31:46

your business, your brands, you have opportunities

31:48

left and right. People are trying to,

31:51

you know, whatever, get

31:53

something from you or help you or say they're

31:55

going to help you, but then they don't deliver.

31:57

How do you navigate that emotionally or mentally in

31:59

this kind of world? You

32:01

have to be

32:03

careful. Like I'm

32:05

always discernment, discernment,

32:08

like turn that brain on. and

32:11

really think and listen to what people tell

32:13

you. I don't even want to say turn

32:15

that brain off, it's just like listen, look

32:18

at Odysseus, the ancient Greek

32:20

saying, look at your opponent, it

32:22

will tell you everything you

32:24

need to know, don't listen, look

32:26

at them. When I say

32:28

look, like look at what they

32:30

show you. And everybody, here's the thing,

32:32

everybody in pursuit of their self -interest,

32:35

right? It's not always going to be in

32:38

alignment with what you want. They want

32:40

this, but it might not be to my

32:42

best interest. So you have to look

32:44

at what they're selling you, what they want

32:46

from you, what they're asking of you, whether

32:50

you want to give them that or

32:52

not. You don't just always have to

32:55

give. You want to have that discernment.

32:57

Make good choices. You're going to make

32:59

bad ones or make mistakes sometimes. It's

33:02

okay. And at the same

33:04

time, don't be afraid to make mistakes

33:06

but I navigate carefully because you're

33:08

right as you and again I was

33:10

listening backstage you know as you

33:12

move up as you've done well it's

33:14

like hey Lewis remember me from

33:16

middle school you know and I'll get

33:18

you know messages sometimes I got

33:20

a message from a girl that bullied

33:22

me like hey oh my god

33:24

remember me we used to go to

33:26

school together like on social media

33:28

I'm like this person You

33:31

know, she's remembering like rainbows and unicorns. And

33:33

I'm like, do you remember what you did

33:35

to me? Right? Those

33:38

things will happen. But

33:40

going back to originally what

33:42

you asked me, the

33:44

key is this. We don't bend

33:46

the world to us. We don't

33:49

make people adapt to us. We

33:51

become adaptable to the world. So

33:53

when I shift, I

33:55

shift with who I have in front of

33:57

me. This is not manipulation. And this is

33:59

not me pretending to be something I'm not.

34:01

I look at the human being I have,

34:03

I look at the behavior, and I adapt

34:06

to them and to their world. I don't

34:08

make people come to me. Really? No, because

34:10

that's rigidity, and then I'm gonna have problems.

34:12

That's the mindset, well, I'm just gonna show

34:14

up, I'm gonna be me, and you know,

34:16

whoever likes it. Good luck with that. And

34:18

if they don't accept me at my worst,

34:21

they don't deserve me at my best, that

34:23

type of saying, right? Yeah, it's like, who

34:25

do I have in front of me? Also,

34:27

who is this person? What do they need

34:29

from me? Sometimes you may have to work

34:31

or do business with someone you don't like.

34:33

You may not have a choice. That's

34:35

okay, but then you adapt your

34:37

behavior to fit that situation. That's what

34:39

I mean by adapt. What's

34:41

the environment I'm in and what

34:44

version of myself do I need

34:46

to bring to be successful in

34:48

this environment? Some people you have

34:50

to be careful. Some people you

34:52

shouldn't share so much. Some people

34:54

you can be open with. Some

34:56

people you can go to to

34:58

share. a problem. Some people you

35:00

cannot. You adapt to the world

35:02

and you will do great. It

35:04

was the same thing that I

35:06

learned when I did interviewing or

35:08

when I dealt with the public.

35:10

If I had somebody highly emotional,

35:13

I knew that I would have

35:15

to pull back on the Secret

35:17

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35:19

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38:07

or I would look at them

38:09

like there was this young woman

38:12

who you talked about You know

38:14

sexual assaults against children. I sadly

38:16

I worked many of those cases

38:18

There's so many out there and

38:20

it's just such a prolific problem

38:22

and it's it's just not talked

38:24

about But I would work so

38:26

many cases where I would have

38:28

to talk to offenders and sometimes

38:30

I would have to see who

38:32

do I have a in the

38:35

room. One case I had

38:37

a nanny and she had

38:39

done something to an infant.

38:43

There was a fracturing the

38:45

infant's arm and they suspected

38:47

the nanny. State police interviews

38:49

her multiple times. They're like,

38:51

nanny's gonna give you nothing. And

38:54

the state police actually called US

38:56

Secret Services said, look, we think

38:58

she did it. Maybe the dad.

39:01

can you send an agent up? And so I would

39:03

go out to help with these difficult cases. And

39:05

in fact, they were like, we're not sure if it's

39:07

the nanny. We're not sure if it's the dad. So

39:09

I remember, I was like, send me their

39:12

statements, because they gave written statements. And I

39:14

read the statements. And after I read the

39:16

nanny statement, I'm like, I want the nanny. It's

39:18

not the dad. So I sit

39:20

with the nanny. This a young woman,

39:22

single mom, overworked, two kids of her

39:24

own. She's trying to show up to

39:26

do babysitting, to make a living. She's

39:28

sitting in my chair. And she's like

39:30

this. And she's talking to me like

39:33

this. And I mean, this girl looks

39:35

broke. I mean, broke in

39:37

so many ways. So I can't come

39:39

in like, hi, I'm special agent so -and -so.

39:41

Good to meet you. Have a seat. Hi,

39:44

I'm Evie. How are you? Can

39:46

I get you something? Do you want something to eat? Do you

39:48

want something to drink? Please, sit

39:51

down. And she had a

39:53

softer tone. I brought in my softer

39:55

tone. That's what I mean by doctorability.

39:57

It was still me. but it was

39:59

the version of me she needed to

40:01

get through that interview. I also

40:03

needed to know what she did or

40:05

didn't do. So she had been

40:07

interviewed four times by state police, gave

40:10

nothing, hour and a half, I

40:12

had a confession. I didn't even have

40:14

to polygraph her. So

40:16

people will reveal more

40:18

and adapt to you more

40:20

if you're willing to adapt

40:23

to them. Let go of your

40:25

ego a bit. Let's stop flexing.

40:27

We don't need to flex so much.

40:30

Is it more of the questions in

40:33

which you ask or the energy

40:35

in which you bring the questions that

40:37

get someone's to reveal the truth

40:39

about something they're holding back? It

40:43

is both. It

40:45

is both. Actually, it's

40:47

probably less of you

40:49

asking questions and more of

40:51

you shutting up. Shut

40:54

up. It's like my

40:56

ethos. When

40:58

you talk a lot, you do not

41:00

allow other people to reveal themselves

41:02

to you. I don't like

41:04

to talk. I know I'm on stage and

41:06

I know I'm doing the talking remove it.

41:09

But in reality, I am that person who's

41:11

just like, tell me about yourself because I

41:13

don't want to talk about myself. Ask

41:16

people questions, drop a question. and go

41:18

quiet. Let them reveal themselves to you.

41:20

If you want to know how to

41:22

read people, and if you want to

41:24

know to gauge who's trustworthy, who's not,

41:26

who's reliable, let them show

41:28

you. But if you're jabbering away, you're

41:31

not going to see it. So

41:33

there's so much power in

41:35

gathering. I call it gather intelligence.

41:38

Gather intelligence from the people around you.

41:40

Then you can make educated and

41:42

well -informed decisions on who you should

41:44

do business with, who you should date,

41:47

who you should marry. who you

41:49

should be around and who

41:51

you should have no contact with.

41:53

But you can't make those

41:55

decisions when you're doing all the

41:57

talking. I really am

41:59

a proponent of less, less, less, less.

42:01

And you know, honestly, people love to talk

42:03

about themselves, don't they? Let them go.

42:05

They're gonna love you for it. Exactly. They're

42:07

gonna be like, that lady Evie, I

42:09

love her. Exactly, exactly. You know? There

42:12

are some people, Evie,

42:14

that are masters at lying.

42:16

And there's some people that are not good liars.

42:18

And you can tell, like, oh, there's something

42:21

off. They have easy tells, or they're just like,

42:23

it's hard for them to lie, right? They'll

42:25

try, but you know something's off. But

42:27

for those who are masters at lying, or

42:29

maybe they just hide just enough of

42:31

the truth that they just don't reveal certain

42:33

truth, it's like a gray area. What's

42:36

the tell or the question to

42:38

know if someone is really lying? OK,

42:40

I'll answer this question. But I'm

42:42

curious, what kind of liar are you?

42:47

Everybody lies. We're all liars. Let's own

42:49

it. I'm a naive liar. I'm a

42:52

naive liar. What does that mean? It

42:54

means... It means if you

42:56

ask, it's... Here's the thing,

42:58

when Martha... This is a

43:00

commitment I made to Martha

43:02

the day I met Hera.

43:04

I said, you ask me

43:06

anything, I'll tell you the

43:08

truth. But

43:11

you don't have to...

43:13

But also, don't ask

43:15

me... I may not

43:17

want to have the conversation that

43:19

you're asking me. So I may say,

43:21

like, I'm not having this conversation.

43:23

So don't ask certain things that I

43:25

also know you don't want to

43:27

know about my past. So

43:30

it's more like it's not like harmful

43:32

stuff. Like I just don't want it

43:34

to be some ideas in her mind

43:36

about whatever past relationships or just positions,

43:38

whatever it might be, right? It's like,

43:40

OK, let's keep certain things out. Do

43:43

you see how much you learn when you don't talk? So it's more

43:45

of a naive. Exactly.

43:47

I'm just sharing everything now. But

43:50

I told her, I told her, you ask me

43:52

a question, I'll give you the truth. But

43:55

you ask me a question, I may

43:57

not reply and say, it's not something

43:59

I want to talk about also. So

44:02

it's like I'm being naive or I'm just not sharing,

44:04

but I'm being honest with you that I don't want to

44:06

share. But she'll ask me a lot

44:08

of stuff and I'm like, it took

44:10

me a lot of courage in the

44:12

first year of dating Martha. where

44:14

she would ask me very vulnerable intimate

44:16

stuff and I would just tell her

44:18

the truth and I was so used

44:20

to getting screamed at in the past

44:22

that I was waiting for like this

44:24

reaction and this is when I knew

44:26

that Martha was the right match for

44:28

me when I could be fully truthful

44:30

about anything that I'm afraid of or

44:32

ashamed of or just like things that

44:34

I've done or whatever it might be

44:37

and her accept me maybe she didn't

44:39

like it it's not like she was

44:41

like oh I'm glad you did that

44:43

or went through that experience but she

44:45

was like okay I accept you like

44:47

I understand this is part of your

44:49

past and it's all the part of

44:51

you and that's okay and I accept

44:53

you and I never felt emotionally safe

44:55

in intimacy because when I would share

44:57

the truth I would always have some

44:59

negative reaction or some blow -up or

45:01

frustration or sadness whatever it might be

45:03

so for me it allowed me to

45:05

continue to be truthful about everything and

45:07

feel like oh I'm gonna feel safe

45:09

either way but I don't think you

45:11

should be truthful to everyone Yeah,

45:14

about certain things, you know, it

45:16

depends on context, right? So,

45:18

you know, it's... Well, Martha's a great

45:20

interviewer, by the way. She's great. I need

45:22

to meet her. She's great. She makes

45:24

you feel very safe in her presence. So,

45:27

what she does, and is what

45:29

you should all learn to do,

45:31

is she doesn't show judgment. If

45:33

you want to know the truth

45:36

about something, you

45:38

want to be non -judgmental. Even

45:40

if that person is telling you

45:42

something you don't want to hear let's

45:45

say You have a partner or

45:47

spouse or someone you're with and you're

45:49

trying to figure out if they're

45:51

cheating on you I'll make it super

45:53

simple and if they start to

45:55

reveal stuff and you start yelling Guess

45:57

what? Oh, yeah interviews over. Uh -huh.

46:00

So here's here's the question. What

46:02

is your goal? If your

46:04

goal is I need to find out what

46:06

this person has done So I can

46:08

make a decision of whether I want to

46:10

stay with them or not. I need information. So

46:13

this is when you have to self -regulate

46:15

and say, I'm not here to yell. I'm

46:17

here to get intelligence, intel,

46:20

so I can make a good decision.

46:23

Because when you don't have intelligence, you

46:25

make bad decisions. When people

46:27

feel that you're going to judge them, they're going to

46:29

stop telling you stuff and they're going to filter

46:31

information. And then you're going to make bad

46:33

decisions in life. because you don't

46:35

know the truth. And the choices

46:37

you make are made off of

46:39

bad information. That's the key. Then

46:41

when you get everything you need to

46:43

get, then you can go. So there's a

46:45

difference. Do you want to be right

46:48

and ream the person or do you want

46:50

to get the information so that you

46:52

can truly know what to do? So

46:54

that you can play chess. There's checkers and

46:56

then there's chess. People that yell

46:58

and scream and you know, and I'm

47:01

not saying that sometimes it's very emotional

47:03

and we lose it. Self -regulate, like

47:05

own it. I'll tell you the story.

47:07

I had a boyfriend. Actually,

47:09

boyfriend, we were together. He

47:11

leaves me. He starts dating somebody

47:13

else. Broke my heart. Broke my heart. How

47:15

old are you? Roughly? I'm

47:18

in my 20s. I'm in

47:20

my late 20s. Secret service

47:22

agent. I

47:24

know. He wasn't Secret service agent. me?

47:27

He was as well. He was as well.

47:29

He was as well. So he leaves me. breaks

47:33

up with me, and then I surmise he's

47:35

seeing someone else, and then he is. Goes

47:37

to that person, sees that person. Then

47:40

all of a sudden he reappears once

47:42

later. Heavy, heavy, heavy.

47:44

You know, now he broke my heart, so of

47:47

course when they do the leaving and you're

47:49

the one left, you're like, oh, right? He's

47:51

back. But something wasn't

47:53

right, right? And I'm a

47:55

polygraph examiner at this point, so. And

47:58

I surmise, I'm like. I

48:01

think he's still talking to her, but he's

48:03

trying to talk to me. So...

48:06

Sneaky dog. Sneaky dog. So as

48:08

painful as it was... Sneaky. I

48:10

start asking questions, you know, what

48:12

happened? You must miss her. You

48:15

talk to her, what was that like? And

48:18

he starts revealing information to me.

48:21

Now, I don't know how it's broken

48:23

as I'm hearing this. Don't get

48:25

me wrong. But he starts revealing, yes, I'm talking

48:27

to her, and I'm talking to you, and

48:29

I don't know what to do. I'm so confused.

48:31

I'm like, must be confusing. You know?

48:34

I mean, tell me more. So

48:37

I'm sitting listening through this. But

48:40

you also, emotionally, as a human, you probably

48:42

miss him, or you felt hurt or sad, or

48:44

maybe you still have some feelings. I'm from

48:46

New York. I was doing every, like, F, F,

48:48

F, like, I'm trying to make this PG -rated,

48:50

this interview, but inside here, I'm like. Yeah,

48:53

yeah, yeah. I'm gonna key your car. That's

48:55

what I was thinking. You're like, I'm gonna

48:57

key this guy's car. That's what we do

48:59

in New York. It's like, I was playing

49:01

it all out in my head. I'm listening

49:03

to this because I need to know what's

49:05

going on so I can make a decision

49:07

because I don't want to get hurt again.

49:10

Yeah. First time,

49:13

okay. Second time, it's on me. So he

49:15

reveals everything. He's like, you know, so in

49:17

the end it's like, I just don't know what

49:19

to do. I don't know who to be

49:21

with. This is where I got him, I

49:23

got it all. I was just like, so

49:25

it ends, I have everything I need now,

49:27

so I still couldn't help myself. I'm

49:29

not saying you should do this, but I was like, you know

49:31

what, let me make it easy for you. I'm

49:33

no longer a choice. I suggest

49:35

you go to her. Wow. So.

49:42

Now, I'd be lying if I didn't

49:44

tell you I broke my heart, but

49:46

at least I had

49:49

enough information so

49:51

I can make a good decision

49:53

for myself. Because I didn't

49:55

show judgment, because he could have started telling me

49:57

this stuff, and I could have shredded him. I'm Greek,

49:59

I'm from New forget it. How

50:02

did you develop enough self -worth

50:05

that once you were, I guess,

50:07

hurt or left, that you didn't

50:09

feel like you were going to

50:11

go back to the same person

50:13

who hurt you? Because...

50:16

know I've made that mistake in the past, and I'm sure

50:18

people here who have gotten back into it where they

50:20

ship, where they're like, oh, this person, I knew they weren't

50:22

right for me. I knew there was something off. We

50:24

broke up, and now we're gonna go try

50:27

it again, but something's still not off. How did

50:29

you get the courage or the worth or

50:31

the knowledge, I guess, to say, I'm gonna be

50:33

okay without this person, even though they're saying

50:35

they want me back? And maybe I miss him

50:37

a little bit, but I'm gonna be okay. Because

50:40

you are gonna be okay. In

50:43

the end, isn't it always okay? It

50:46

always levels out, right? It's always okay

50:48

in the end. It always is.

50:50

No matter what you go through, it's

50:52

like this. But it's your

50:54

choice if he wanted to go

50:56

like this or like this. There's

51:01

something I adopted and I really have

51:03

to say that being in the US

51:05

Secret Service helped me adopt it unawaringly.

51:07

It's a neutrality mindset where you don't

51:09

have high highs and you don't have

51:11

low lows. And you kind

51:13

of live always in the middle.

51:15

Even when devastating things happen to

51:17

you, you don't drop. But

51:19

at the same time, I don't celebrate high highs.

51:21

I'm not like, oh my god, my book is

51:24

going to be this or my book is going

51:26

to be that. You launch a

51:28

book, you want it to be great,

51:30

but you can't tie your happiness to

51:32

how successful, let's say, the book is

51:34

or isn't. I hope it is great.

51:36

But if it doesn't do great, I'm

51:38

OK. Because if you're that extreme where

51:40

you celebrate the high highs, then when

51:43

you crash, You're going to crash.

51:46

But if you're somewhere in the middle and

51:48

you have this, it's called, it's a neutrality

51:50

mindset. Actually, Dr. Gabrielle Lyon is the one

51:52

who, who kind of like, I think you've

51:54

had her on your show as well. So

51:56

she's my doctor and she, she actually treats

51:58

a lot of Navy SEALs, secret service agents,

52:00

stuff like that. And she's like, you're, she's

52:02

like, you're all the same. She's

52:04

like, none of you get super excited.

52:06

but none of you get devastated when

52:08

something happens, because you start to learn

52:10

to live in this middle space. Because

52:12

what you don't do is you don't

52:15

allow external factors to dictate, I'm happy,

52:17

I'm sad, I'm steady. Now

52:20

I might do this here and

52:22

there, but I'm not doing this, and

52:24

I'm not doing this. The

52:27

external environment cannot

52:29

dictate, and truly

52:31

other people cannot dictate. where

52:34

you're going to be because people can

52:36

come and people can go and although something

52:39

may start positive it may turn out

52:41

a different way and It's okay. Yeah and

52:43

going into the you know Getting the

52:45

intel from someone you mentioned the word like

52:47

not being judgmental. I think one of

52:49

the things that Martha has learned through being

52:51

an actor for a long time she's

52:53

always telling me when you're taking on a

52:55

role of an actor as an actor

52:57

and you're taking on a role from a

52:59

script you can't judge the person you're

53:01

taking the role of you can't make them

53:03

wrong for being a drug addict or

53:05

whatever it is because you're not going to

53:07

be able to live their experience as

53:09

an actor I don't know if there's any

53:11

actors in here if that relates to

53:13

them but so maybe that's why she was

53:15

able to be non -judgmental with me because

53:17

she's had that practice where it's

53:19

almost like you're being neutral in your

53:21

emotions about someone so you can get

53:23

more information from them. It doesn't mean

53:25

you accept them and you're going to

53:27

be with them, but you're being neutral,

53:29

you're being non -judgmental, at least in

53:31

the time being, to get the information, then

53:34

you can make your judgments of whether you want

53:36

to work with them or be with them or

53:38

not, I guess. Yes, it's like you need information

53:40

to make good decisions, but if you're getting bad

53:42

information, you're going to make bad decisions. It

53:45

was it was the same thing like

53:47

in the interview room like I interviewed

53:49

people who committed terrorism or terrorist sympathizers

53:51

so I I mean I was ground

53:53

zero on September 11th like the US

53:55

Secret Service field office for New York

53:57

was there and I endured that whole

54:00

day I was I lived through it

54:02

and I'm fortunate to be here but

54:04

I lost colleagues and I lost friends.

54:07

Now I did not when

54:09

I would sit in an interview and I was

54:11

trying to get information on where the next

54:13

attack would come from. I didn't

54:15

walk into that room and be like, you know

54:17

what you did? Do

54:19

you know what your belief system did?

54:21

Do you know what you killed me

54:23

and you almost caused this? First

54:25

of all, who would I be

54:27

making that whole interview about? Me.

54:33

Why was I there? I was there to

54:35

get information to find out where the

54:38

next attack was coming from so more people

54:40

didn't die. That was my goal. And

54:42

so I would self -regulate

54:45

and in all the interviews

54:47

I did with terrorists or

54:49

people in that sphere, I

54:51

never once ever ever brought

54:53

up 9 -11 or my experience.

54:55

Really? No, because I would

54:57

make it about myself. What

55:00

is your mission? What is your goal? I

55:02

need information. And what I needed was information

55:04

on when the next attack was coming. Because

55:06

sometimes they'd come in and they'd say, oh,

55:08

there's an attack coming. It's coming from here.

55:10

And what their goal was is to

55:13

get us to shift all our

55:15

resources here so the attack could come

55:17

from here. But

55:19

that, I would make it about me. So

55:22

it's like, what is your goal? Have your goal?

55:24

What am I trying to achieve? It's

55:26

not that you're not gonna feel things, but

55:29

when you know your goal, then you're able

55:31

to steady yourself. So every time I walked

55:33

in, what is my goal? My goal is

55:35

to get to X. How do I get

55:37

to X? I'm not saying I'm not gonna

55:39

be upset, but you must regulate your emotions.

55:41

If it's like, well, this person did this

55:43

to me, it's not my fault. No, no,

55:45

no, no, no. You

55:47

decide what behavior you're

55:50

going to show. You

55:52

decide what you reveal to

55:54

others. Other people cannot be

55:56

in charge of what your

55:58

behavior is. Think about

56:01

how powerless that makes you. And it

56:03

just makes you just like anybody

56:05

can do anything to you. Now,

56:08

if you want to lose it, if

56:11

you ever want to like burn a

56:13

bridge, burn it. Burn it to the

56:15

ground. Just make sure you are choosing

56:17

rationally to burn the bridge. And

56:19

you don't want to go back. You're not going back.

56:21

You could just be like, I'm going to burn

56:23

this thing down and I'm OK with it. Torch it. But

56:28

make sure you're doing

56:30

it because you intelligently chose

56:32

to do it. Not

56:34

because you lost control. Somebody

56:37

got the better of you and you

56:39

said and did things that you wish you

56:41

hadn't done. And now you're pissed at

56:43

yourself. It's going to happen to you, but

56:45

at least learn from that. But don't.

56:47

What sometimes we do is like, that person

56:50

did this, so I reacted to that.

56:52

So then you're just a reactive person. Amen

56:57

to that. That's good. Amen

56:59

to that. I've got two final questions for you.

57:02

This has been really powerful, Avery. I appreciate

57:04

you. One of them is around the idea

57:06

of adapting to the people that are in

57:08

front of you. I think you

57:10

said, be adaptable to the world. Is that what

57:12

you think you said? Something around that? How

57:16

do we be adaptable

57:18

and flexible around different individuals

57:20

without feeling like we're

57:22

flip -floppy, chameleons, kind of

57:24

like snakey, like different? How

57:27

can we be authentically ourselves

57:29

but adaptable to someone else so

57:31

they feel it's also you're being

57:33

authentic? First of all, be

57:35

genuine. Just be a

57:37

genuine human being. You don't have

57:39

to agree with people, but

57:41

you can be genuine. You

57:43

can show people interest. you

57:45

can be curious. Like you

57:47

can be that. Be a genuine person. I

57:49

wouldn't even say be authentic because my authentic

57:52

self likes to wear leggings and you know

57:54

no makeup and I don't want to bring

57:56

her like at a place like this, right? So

57:59

be a genuine person but you can

58:01

be genuine and adapt. So if I

58:03

have somebody who's angry I'm going to

58:05

adapt to like all right I have

58:07

somebody who's angry and they're yelling or

58:09

they're screaming or they're venting. So I

58:11

understand that I can't yell and scream

58:13

and vent if I want to make

58:15

progress in this situation. It depends also

58:17

what you want. Do I want to

58:19

make progress? So I adapt to that

58:21

behavior. I understand, and I just noticed

58:24

through the training I've had that when

58:26

somebody's in that heated zone, you go

58:28

quiet. Most people

58:30

don't. Most people think, oh, you yelled at me,

58:32

you this, or I'm going to come

58:34

back at you. And then you just, you just

58:36

go at it all day long. If you're trying

58:38

to make progress, You're like, all right,

58:40

let them vent. And then when

58:42

they're done venting, it's like, and you've

58:44

had it where you're like, I'm done.

58:46

Right. But when people try to tell

58:48

you, calm down and relax, you get

58:50

more pissed off because you just want

58:52

to get it out. So

58:54

let them get it out. So that's what

58:56

I mean by adapt. I see what the

58:58

behavior I have. I understand. Let them get

59:00

it out. And then when they're done, now

59:02

I can talk because now they're also ready

59:04

to listen to me because sometimes we try

59:06

to talk and interrupt them. I had, um,

59:09

There's a coffee chain a big coffee

59:11

chain. I won't say which one

59:13

but one of the managers came to

59:15

me and he said We need

59:18

your help. He's like I want to

59:20

serve advice He's like we get

59:22

customers who come in and they lose

59:24

their minds when we give them

59:26

the wrong drink Like dangerously so and

59:28

he said I have an example

59:31

to give you he said one day

59:33

somebody came in and we gave

59:35

he was given the wrong drink the

59:37

wrong coffee concoction and he leaves

59:39

comes back and he is livid and

59:41

he starts yelling at the the

59:43

barista behind the bar and He's escalating

59:46

and escalating and escalating to the

59:48

point where he's like I actually thought

59:50

he was going to hit her

59:52

Wow, and he said I'm ashamed to

59:54

say I didn't know what to

59:56

do I was the person in and

59:58

I didn't know what to do

1:00:01

and no matter what we did it

1:00:03

escalated so I said, okay Let

1:00:05

me ask you something when he came

1:00:07

in What did you guys do?

1:00:09

Did you guys, you know, walk

1:00:11

me through what happened and when he comes

1:00:13

in and he's yelling and we're telling him, you

1:00:15

know, calm down, we'll fix it for you.

1:00:17

So there's no need. And he's like, we fixed

1:00:19

it for him. We gave him the right

1:00:21

drink. We even gave him like a credit. It

1:00:24

didn't matter. He just kept escalating and escalating.

1:00:26

And he's like, what did we do wrong? And

1:00:28

I was like, the thing, it's

1:00:30

not that what you did wrong, but

1:00:32

the thing that happened there is he

1:00:34

was pissed and he just wanted to

1:00:36

be heard. And you kept interrupting him.

1:00:38

He didn't even want, it wasn't even

1:00:40

the drink because you gave him the

1:00:42

correct beverage. He didn't even want

1:00:44

that at that point. You just needed to

1:00:47

let him vent. But what you did

1:00:49

is by interrupting him and by even by

1:00:51

fixing it and trying to get him to stop,

1:00:53

he just went up, up, up, up, up,

1:00:55

up, up, and it got worse. That's

1:00:57

what I mean by adaptability. What do

1:00:59

I have in front of me and I

1:01:01

have to adapt to that situation? Now

1:01:04

the normal New Yorker in me would be like,

1:01:06

let's throw down. Right? But where

1:01:08

would that get me? Nowhere.

1:01:12

Know who you have in front of me.

1:01:14

Know what state of mind they're in.

1:01:16

It's also what motivational minds that are people

1:01:18

in. What's going on in their head,

1:01:20

not your head. But you also have to

1:01:22

have enough, be enough

1:01:24

of a centered person. Not let

1:01:26

your ego get in the way if you

1:01:28

really want to be good at dealing with people.

1:01:31

Your ego will sabotage you because it's like,

1:01:33

how dare you talk to me like that?

1:01:35

How dare you do this? How dare you

1:01:37

that? And that's not a great place to

1:01:39

be because now you're really not going to

1:01:41

make progress. And it's like, do

1:01:44

you want your ego to be

1:01:46

satiated or do you want to know

1:01:48

what's going on around you so

1:01:50

that you can make intelligent decisions and

1:01:52

handle people well? I

1:01:54

prefer the latter. That's

1:01:57

beautiful. That's beautiful. I've

1:02:00

got one final question for you. I've

1:02:04

got one final question before I ask it.

1:02:06

I know you have a program about the

1:02:08

art of influence. Understanding yourself, reading other people,

1:02:11

all these different things. You've got an amazing

1:02:13

program about this that people can check out

1:02:15

right here. We'll also link it up on

1:02:17

the recording for people that are watching at

1:02:19

home later. So

1:02:22

we'll have that up there if you guys

1:02:24

take a photo of that. But I have

1:02:26

one final question. You have so much going

1:02:28

on. You're really a great resource for people

1:02:30

and having them understand themselves, understand other people,

1:02:32

navigate relationships differently. What is

1:02:34

the thing you're most grateful for in your life

1:02:36

these days? I

1:02:47

want to answer it

1:02:49

thoughtfully. I guess

1:02:51

it shifts in that moment overall like

1:02:53

I'm just grateful for my life. However

1:02:55

that life turned out, I'm

1:02:58

grateful for it. You

1:03:00

know, in my culture, I'm Greek, I'm

1:03:02

Eastern Orthodox, and we grew up, like,

1:03:05

if you want something, you go

1:03:07

to church, you light a candle, like, we

1:03:09

have, like, you actually light the candle, it's very

1:03:11

old school, and then I was raised, like,

1:03:13

you ask, you know, and whatever you believe in,

1:03:15

but in my culture, it's like you ask

1:03:17

God to, like, you know, or whoever

1:03:19

you pray to, like, to give you

1:03:21

what you want, and... Every time I find

1:03:23

myself doing that, if I want something,

1:03:25

and I go to put that candle in

1:03:27

the sand, we put it in the

1:03:29

sand, I stop, and

1:03:31

I'm like, I just want to say thank you

1:03:34

for everything you gave me. I don't need anything.

1:03:44

I think I'm thankful for, and

1:03:46

when I say my life,

1:03:48

I guess I've had like two

1:03:50

key moments where I really

1:03:52

like... I thought my life would

1:03:54

end. The job I had was very life

1:03:56

and death, and so those moments always existed,

1:03:58

but I had two real moments where I'm

1:04:01

like, this is it, I'm gonna die. One

1:04:03

was September 11th,

1:04:05

and in that moment,

1:04:07

I remember when

1:04:10

everything was happening, and

1:04:12

I really thought I was like, I'm gonna die. It was

1:04:14

when the first tower was coming down. I'm like, I'm not gonna

1:04:16

live through this. And I remember thinking,

1:04:19

man, I'm like... Not yet. There's so

1:04:21

many things I didn't do. I started

1:04:23

thinking about the things I didn't do

1:04:25

and I'm like, you know, if

1:04:28

I live through this, I'm

1:04:30

gonna live my life. I'm gonna live. I'm

1:04:32

gonna do these things so that I'm okay

1:04:34

to go the next time comes. And

1:04:36

then the next time I really

1:04:39

was gonna die was when I

1:04:41

gave birth to my daughter. Something

1:04:44

happened during the delivery and just

1:04:46

my body just started to shut down

1:04:49

and I... I started, you know,

1:04:51

my, um, my lungs started filling

1:04:53

up with water. Uh, my,

1:04:55

I couldn't breathe. So my oxygen started

1:04:57

going down. My kidney started shutting down.

1:04:59

So my body started shutting down and

1:05:01

I could feel the fade. I guess

1:05:03

it felt like a fade. And I

1:05:05

remember, you know, like, I'm dying again.

1:05:07

Wow. And in

1:05:09

that moment, I was like, but

1:05:11

I'm okay to go this

1:05:14

time. I

1:05:16

did everything I wanted to do, or at

1:05:18

least I tried. Now, of course,

1:05:20

my husband's sitting there mortified because I'm about, you know,

1:05:22

he's about to lose me and I tell him the

1:05:24

story later. I'm like, I was okay to go. He's

1:05:26

like, are you out of your mind? He's

1:05:28

like, you were going to leave me with the,

1:05:30

you know, and I, you

1:05:34

know, but it was

1:05:36

the truth. So you

1:05:38

could see those were

1:05:40

horribly traumatic events. And

1:05:43

it depends which way you want to

1:05:45

look at them. And I look at them

1:05:47

as two of the greatest blessings I've

1:05:49

ever had. And

1:05:52

so I am grateful for

1:05:54

those moments because they taught me

1:05:57

what my life means or

1:05:59

what life means. And they showed

1:06:01

me that, you know, even

1:06:03

to this day, I'm okay to

1:06:05

go. Are

1:06:07

you okay to go? If

1:06:09

you're not, it's okay. You just

1:06:12

have work to do. But get yourself

1:06:14

to that point. I'm grateful for

1:06:16

that. That's beautiful everywhere. We are grateful

1:06:18

for you. We appreciate you. Give

1:06:20

it up guys for every one more

1:06:22

time. Thank

1:06:26

you so much. We

1:06:28

appreciate you. I hope

1:06:30

you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired

1:06:32

you on your journey towards greatness.

1:06:34

Make sure to check out the show

1:06:36

notes in the description for a

1:06:38

full rundown of today's episode with all

1:06:41

the important links and if you

1:06:43

want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me

1:06:45

personally as well as ad -free listening

1:06:47

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1:06:49

our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple

1:06:51

Podcasts. Share this with a friend

1:06:53

on social media and leave us a

1:06:55

review on Apple Podcasts as well.

1:06:57

Let me know what you enjoyed about

1:06:59

this episode in that review I

1:07:01

really love hearing feedback from you and

1:07:03

it helps us figure out how

1:07:05

we can support and serve you moving

1:07:07

forward and I want to remind

1:07:09

you if no one has told you

1:07:11

lately that you are loved you

1:07:13

are worthy and you matter and now

1:07:15

it's time to go out there

1:07:17

and do something great