0:00

This is the second studio hosted by

0:02

the architecture and design office fame. My

0:04

name is David Lee and with me

0:06

is Marina Bordeironi. This week our guest

0:08

is Morgan Sykes J. Bush. Morgan

0:10

is the director of hospitality projects

0:12

at On Giving, which is an

0:15

architectural office based in Los Angeles

0:17

focusing on adaptive reuse projects. And

0:19

with Morgan we talk about his story

0:21

and of course all things adaptive reuse.

0:23

We've been wanting to talk about this

0:25

topic for some time, so it was

0:27

great to hear the ins and outs. about all

0:29

of it from an expert's point of view. Yeah,

0:31

if you don't know them, check out their

0:34

website. They do like something. Pretty interesting

0:36

work. A lot of it is in downtown

0:38

Los Angeles, which it's funny if you ask.

0:40

If you actually ask a lot of people

0:42

living in LA, they don't like downtown. So

0:44

it's kind of cool to see a firm

0:46

that focuses on working in downtown and the

0:48

complexity of the buildings that are. down there.

0:51

And they do work in a bunch

0:53

of other places as well. They

0:55

do too, yeah. So we cover

0:57

with them pretty much everything like

0:59

working with clients, the challenges of

1:01

construction, challenges of design, the benefits

1:03

of adaptive reuse. Basically the whole

1:05

enchilada. And we even asked them

1:07

if there was any cool discovery

1:09

they've had on those older buildings.

1:11

So you should definitely tune in.

1:13

Like zombies. Sponsors. Designers and

1:15

architects, if you're looking for a

1:18

powerful and real-time visualization and VR

1:20

tool, then check out Enscape. Why

1:22

is Enscap special? Well, it's super

1:24

easy to use because it's a

1:26

plug-in and not a standard on

1:28

application, which means you can work

1:30

directly in your sketchup, Rhino, Archicad,

1:32

Vectorworks, or Revit mosque. It only

1:35

takes a couple clicks from installation

1:37

to creating your first rendering. Enscape

1:39

does realistic renderings, 360 degree panoramas

1:41

and videos, and virtual reality environment.

1:43

We use Enscape and we think

1:45

you would love it too, so click the

1:47

Enscape 3D link in our shownote to learn more.

1:49

I used to start remodeling projects with

1:51

hours of tedious measuring and recreating

1:53

the existing conditions. Then I discovered

1:55

Canvas, an iPad and iPad and

1:57

iPhone app that lets me easily...

2:00

entire homes in minutes and automatically

2:02

generates editable models in formats like

2:04

Sketchup, Arkkad, vectorworks Revit and more

2:06

in as little as one day.

2:08

Thanks to Canvas, I spend more

2:10

time designing the future instead of

2:12

measuring the past. Get to the

2:14

design phase faster with Canvas. Visit

2:16

Canvas.io/sSP or click the link at

2:18

our show notes to Schedule your

2:20

demo and get your first as-built

2:22

free. This is the second studio

2:24

with myself, Marina, and our guest

2:26

Morgan. Here we go. I'm from

2:29

LA, fourth generation Angelino. I grew

2:31

up in the canyons in Nichols

2:33

Canyon and... our house, my mom

2:35

still lives there, but it's kind

2:37

of like a long skinny house

2:39

that kind of angles out like

2:41

two arms reaching out and it's

2:43

all glass on one side facing

2:45

the pool, so it's kind of

2:47

like a, you know, it's, it

2:49

wants to be a cliff May,

2:51

it's not, but it's similar to

2:53

that kind of nestled at the

2:55

bottom of the canyon, looking at

2:57

the pool and looking at the

2:59

rest of the hills. But it's

3:01

in a unique place because, um...

3:03

you know at least when I

3:05

was growing up it wasn't a

3:08

fancy canyon but you're kind of

3:10

in the middle of the city

3:12

so we're easily able to go

3:14

into the valley into the hollywood

3:16

downtown like it's just kind of

3:18

yeah we were all over the

3:20

place we never really I never

3:22

really thought of you know a

3:24

lot of people are like I

3:26

won't go past the four or

3:28

five I won't go this way

3:30

I now think like that because

3:32

I went to school in the

3:34

valley in Burbank my grandparents lived

3:36

in Culver City My parents worked

3:38

in Burbank and London and you're

3:40

just we were just everywhere all

3:42

over all the time so that

3:45

feels normal to me to just

3:47

you know always be exploring the

3:49

city. Was traffic as bad when

3:51

you were a kid? I mean

3:53

we thought it was bad then

3:55

but it just you know keeps

3:57

getting more. It's gotten worse. It

3:59

is kind of relative though. I

4:01

mean, you're right, it is funny

4:03

for folks who don't know about

4:05

Los Angeles. There are obviously a

4:07

lot of freeways and they kind

4:09

of, you know, cut the... city

4:11

up so it's a it's a

4:13

it's a sort of an unspoken

4:15

or spoken under you know understanding

4:17

if you live on one side

4:19

of the four or five and

4:21

I live in the other we're

4:24

just not gonna see each other

4:26

ever yeah and I broke I

4:28

broke the rule right away like

4:30

you should never say the name

4:32

of that freeway a lot it's

4:34

bad luck is that the case

4:36

yeah you can say San Diego

4:38

freeway but don't say the number

4:40

and I just I blew it

4:42

I blew it I earthquakes. I

4:44

don't say the E word. I

4:46

say spaghetti instead. You know, I

4:48

feel like, well, you just say

4:50

the word. Well, well, I had

4:52

to explain to you, so I

4:54

don't know how to do that.

4:56

So, yeah, it sounds like you

4:58

had, you have to take side

5:00

roads, backwards, all ways. That's how

5:03

you avoid the new ways. Yeah,

5:05

yeah, yeah, this is true for

5:07

sure. So, okay, so, and I

5:09

think your family has been in

5:11

Los Angeles for quite a few

5:13

generations, if I understand correctly. Yeah,

5:15

my mom grew up in the

5:17

valley. My grandfather grew up in

5:19

Pasadena, his parents in Pasadena too.

5:21

And they, at least my grandparents

5:23

were in the film business, but

5:25

like my mom, my grandmother worked

5:27

at Disney, she was the head

5:29

of the research department there in

5:31

the 50s. My grandfather was a

5:33

film editor. My dad grew up

5:35

in Canada, but he came here.

5:37

because he ran a recording studio

5:39

in Vancouver and Mike Nichols was

5:42

filming something there, met him and

5:44

he was like, you're moving to

5:46

LA with me, you know, that's

5:48

kind of how those things happened.

5:50

Interesting. Yeah, interesting. So fairly creative

5:52

family. So, but then he came

5:54

here, did that for a little

5:56

while, and then left that, started

5:58

like a two-way radio company, so

6:00

he's an engineer. My mom was

6:02

a painter, so no more film

6:04

in our family. But creative, yeah,

6:06

for sure, for sure. So then

6:08

what... you to architecture? Did you

6:10

play with Legos as a kid?

6:12

Did you? Of course. Did you

6:14

have an uncle was an architect?

6:16

How did that come into play?

6:18

No, I didn't know any architects.

6:21

I was just was always interested

6:23

in buildings and you know any

6:25

time there was a house being

6:27

built or anything like that in

6:29

the neighborhood I would sneak into

6:31

the construction site to see what

6:33

was happening. Yeah, I just always

6:35

found that interesting and then... In

6:37

the 90s, my dad was looking

6:39

for a new office space. And

6:41

so we were driving all around

6:43

downtown areas to look for a

6:45

building. So I mean, that in

6:47

itself was interesting to me. And

6:49

then he found this art colony

6:51

in Lincoln Heights called the brewery,

6:53

which is the old Paps Blue

6:55

Ribbon Brewery that had been turned

6:57

into artists' office in the 80s.

7:00

So like, you know, one of

7:02

the first adaptive reuse projects. And

7:04

that's where I started to see

7:06

like that that kind of thing

7:08

is possible. And it just was

7:10

really interesting to me because I

7:12

hate to see things get turned

7:14

out. So, you know, I always

7:16

am thinking, how can we reuse

7:18

something in a cool new way?

7:20

So I think that's where that

7:22

started. Interesting. Interesting. And so. When

7:24

I'm assuming you're in high school,

7:26

you know, and then you have

7:28

to decide your future by choosing

7:30

a major that's how it works

7:32

in the United States and other

7:34

countries, I suppose. And so just

7:37

your pure fascination with buildings led

7:39

you to architecture or are you

7:41

considering other things like film, for

7:43

instance? We actually had, I went

7:45

to this little Catholic school in

7:47

Burbank and they had a little

7:49

film program that I was in.

7:51

So I kind of thought that

7:53

I might do that, but... I

7:55

don't know, architecture was just seemed

7:57

more interesting and unique to me

7:59

also because I didn't know anybody.

8:01

that was doing that? And then,

8:03

you know, when I started thinking

8:05

about, like, that's maybe what I

8:07

want to do, my mom started

8:09

introducing me to any architect she

8:11

got, you know, she knew. So

8:13

we were driving around town like,

8:16

meet this architect and this architect

8:18

at every single one of them,

8:20

said, don't do it. You're not

8:22

going to make money. It's too

8:24

hard. Don't do it. And you

8:26

know, give me all the reasons

8:28

why, why you need to be

8:30

super passionate about it. My college

8:32

counselor, who was like an 85-year-old,

8:34

none, also told me not to

8:36

do it. I think all that

8:38

pushed me to do it. That's

8:40

great. I feel like architecture should

8:42

rethink about what they said to

8:44

young kids. They should say, yeah,

8:46

sure, you should go do it.

8:48

But I think that's the punchline

8:50

that we were expecting because we're

8:52

I mean this is a while

8:55

ago now But were the architects

8:57

serious or were they saying it

8:59

kind of jokingly and saying you

9:01

should do what you want to

9:03

do It felt serious to me.

9:05

I don't know. You know 16

9:07

so I have a friend that

9:09

just started teaching at Cal Poly

9:11

and she was talking about this

9:13

exact thing because she was like

9:15

I want to inspire them, but

9:17

I also want that want them

9:19

to understand So I told her

9:21

the story and I was like,

9:23

there has to be a better

9:25

way to communicate the same information

9:27

without saying it like that. Yeah.

9:29

I don't think we have a

9:31

solution. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's tough.

9:34

I mean, on occasion, not to

9:36

go too far on a tangent,

9:38

but folks reach out to us

9:40

through the show. And sometimes we

9:42

get contacted by folks who are

9:44

like high schoolers, which is a

9:46

very weird thought that there's a

9:48

14 year old listening to the

9:50

show. But they reach out and

9:52

they ask, you know, I'm very

9:54

interested in architecture and they're a

9:56

kid, right? And they want to

9:58

pursue it. And they're asking for

10:00

advice and that's one situation. Other

10:02

times we have people who are

10:04

older or, you know, probably already

10:06

should be in college. at that

10:08

kind of age. And they're thinking

10:10

of doing community college or thinking

10:13

of going to college they want

10:15

to know about architecture as a

10:17

career. And in those cases, I'm

10:19

a bit more nervous because I

10:21

don't know their situation. You know,

10:23

if you're 24, you could have

10:25

a kid. You could have, you

10:27

know, quote, real responsibilities. And at

10:29

that point, that's usually when I

10:31

say, okay, these are all the

10:33

great things, but also be mindful.

10:35

It's not. Sometimes people think that

10:37

architects are are. So like when

10:39

you see in the movies. Yeah,

10:41

yeah, exactly. Or like we're attorneys

10:43

or someone said to be recently

10:45

like, oh, you must fly first

10:47

class everywhere because you're an architect.

10:49

I'm like, what is that? I'm

10:52

like, you know, expensive first class.

10:54

You're crazy? So I don't know.

10:56

Yeah, I mean, I often think

10:58

if they taught us in school,

11:00

what we actually do, would we

11:02

have stayed? But also it would

11:04

have been helpful. There's so much

11:06

that they don't teach us. Just

11:08

about how to run a business.

11:10

But then, at the same time,

11:12

it's such a great and broad

11:14

education, teaching you how to think

11:16

in a different way. I think

11:18

it's a great education and you

11:20

could go do anything after that.

11:22

Yeah, I grew with that. I

11:24

mean, I don't know about you,

11:26

but we've had so many friends

11:28

who studied architecture practice for a

11:31

little bit and they pivot to

11:33

something else and they're doing extremely

11:35

well in whatever job they landed.

11:37

Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, don't

11:39

you think about that same move

11:41

yourself every day? Did you I

11:43

did as well, but I had

11:45

no idea you did did did

11:47

you consider other schools? Did you

11:49

consider going out of state? It

11:51

was Cal Polyso kind of the

11:53

obvious choice Yeah, I didn't really

11:55

consider going out of state That

11:57

was mainly because I mean my

11:59

parents both had their own businesses

12:01

So we never moved but I

12:03

went to seven different schools and

12:05

that was like we could afford

12:08

that private school. Oh it can't

12:10

afford that anymore and just you

12:12

know hopping back and forth so

12:14

it needed to be an affordable

12:16

choice. I mean that was honestly

12:18

my top choice and I applied

12:20

to a few other places I

12:22

didn't hear back from San Lewis

12:24

but somehow I got accepted the

12:26

Pomona which I didn't apply to.

12:28

Anyway I just kind of waited

12:30

and it happened so I you

12:32

know I lucked out and it

12:34

was a great place to go.

12:36

Especially coming from a big city

12:38

to all of a sudden be

12:40

put into like a real small

12:42

town. I mean it's 30,000 people

12:44

it's not that small but for

12:47

me it was. And I mean

12:49

they sent me to Italy for

12:51

my fourth year like it was

12:53

great. That's interesting actually yeah you

12:55

kind of like did the reverse

12:57

I feel like a lot of.

12:59

maybe like I did the opposite

13:01

right in France I'm from a

13:03

small town and I went to

13:05

Paris to school and like you

13:07

kind of did the opposite you

13:09

went from the big city to

13:11

the small town which I think

13:13

in whichever order like they're an

13:15

interesting thing to experience because they

13:17

really put you in like two

13:19

different contexts and make you understand

13:21

you know the urban fabric in

13:23

a very different way. Yes, exactly,

13:26

exactly, it was interesting and it's

13:28

also easier to really tackle on

13:30

your own to explore everything, literally

13:32

everything. You know, stifling in other

13:34

ways because it's a small town,

13:36

but it also made us focus

13:38

on work because there wasn't a

13:40

lot of distraction. So, you know,

13:42

our year worked really hard. Yeah.

13:44

Yeah, I could see that. I

13:46

could definitely see that. I experienced

13:48

some of that too. It's a

13:50

good place to either work or

13:52

just hang out with all your

13:54

friends down. Yeah, I think they

13:56

call us, they call us the

13:58

party year because, but we're like,

14:00

yes, we party, but we work

14:02

hard too, we do both. That

14:05

sounds like an architect major right

14:07

there to me. Yeah, work hard

14:09

party hard. What was Italy like?

14:11

Had you been abroad at that

14:13

point in time before? Had you

14:15

been to Italy before? No, I'd

14:17

never been. I'd never been to

14:19

Europe. So I think a lot

14:21

of people that went with us,

14:23

you know, they taught like the

14:25

kids that went the year before.

14:27

taught like a class to the

14:29

outgoing kids to prepare us to

14:31

teach us like how to wear

14:33

a money belt and all these

14:35

things and it was so weird.

14:37

Survival skills. Yeah but it was

14:39

just like common sense thing it

14:41

was strange I thought it was

14:44

strange but we got there and

14:46

a lot of kids were shocked

14:48

and you know some people went

14:50

home and it was just I

14:52

got there and I was like

14:54

oh this is right this feels

14:56

right. I don't know, I just

14:58

felt at home right away. And...

15:00

Did you ever think about that

15:02

you would live there? Before? I

15:04

mean, after, after the exchange program.

15:06

Well, I did a little bit.

15:08

I had gone to Venice to

15:10

the Viennai and, you know, on

15:12

the way back to the train

15:14

station, I was on the Vaparetto

15:16

and I overheard some kid behind

15:18

me asking his mom, what is

15:20

that building? And she said, oh,

15:23

it's the Guggenheim. I didn't know

15:25

that there was a Guggenheim there.

15:27

So I literally got off at

15:29

the next station, went to the

15:31

Guggenheim, saw all these kids my

15:33

age working there, and I was

15:35

like, how did you get this

15:37

job? And it turns out it

15:39

was an internship program for art

15:41

history students. So, you know, I

15:43

had that in the back of

15:45

my mind when I came back

15:47

after my fourth year and, you

15:49

know, was doing fifth year. when

15:51

we still had six months of

15:53

school, it was, that also seemed

15:55

strange to me, like, I wasn't

15:57

ready for that kind of job.

16:00

So I applied to that internship

16:03

when I was like, well, let's

16:05

just see, maybe I can get

16:07

a three-month break and go back

16:09

there. And they hired me, and

16:11

after three months, they ended up

16:13

hiring me to run the internship

16:15

program. So I was there for

16:17

almost two years. It was great.

16:20

Oh, wow. And then I hope

16:22

on that vibrato. That's right. It's

16:24

just like, I just happen to

16:26

be in the right spot to

16:28

overhear this lady. I mean, I

16:30

don't know how that happened, but

16:32

then I tried to get a

16:34

job as an architect there and,

16:37

you know, I couldn't get a

16:39

paid position because you know, you

16:41

work for free, which is fine

16:43

because if you live with your

16:45

mom, you know, which is common,

16:47

but you know, my mom was

16:49

here, I didn't have the money

16:52

to do that, so I had

16:54

to come on. You could have

16:56

lived with someone else's mom. That's

16:58

probably a thing. Yeah. That's fascinating.

17:00

So what did you do at

17:02

the Guggenheim? I mean, I know

17:04

you said that you were a

17:06

director or coordinator at some point,

17:09

but like what were, it's a

17:11

museum, so. It's a small museum,

17:13

but the interns really, like they

17:15

spend half their time guarding the

17:17

museum, and then the other half

17:19

the time they spend with the

17:21

staff, so they'll, you know, spend

17:23

a day working with the membership

17:26

office or doing translations or. working

17:28

on press releases or just working

17:30

with the curator. They'll also like

17:32

spend a day at the ticket

17:34

desk. So they do every part

17:36

of a museum operations. So then

17:38

when I was running that, you

17:40

know, I was overseeing all those

17:43

people. So I would have 30

17:45

interns at a time, 30 staff

17:47

people and I was the person

17:49

in the middle like coordinating at

17:51

all. And like with the skeleton

17:53

key to open the safe to

17:55

lock the money away and open

17:57

a propagate. You know, why did

18:00

you put a 24 year old?

18:02

charge of this but... 24 year

18:04

old American yeah. And my Italian

18:06

was fair when I started but

18:08

the that first month that I

18:10

was in charge like the Italians

18:12

just would yell at me in

18:14

Italian and it was always like

18:17

where the hell is this intern

18:19

like this interns fucked up there's

18:21

you know it's not enough money

18:23

in the register at the end

18:25

of the day and it was

18:27

it was super stressful and then

18:29

afterwards they'd be like hey you

18:31

want to get a coffee. Like,

18:34

I don't want to get a

18:36

coffee with you. Like, terrible to

18:38

me all day. And so, you

18:40

know, I, my Italian got really

18:42

much better, really fast. And as

18:44

soon as I was able to

18:46

yell back at them, like, it

18:49

stopped. They just stopped and they,

18:51

and all of a sudden, I

18:53

got their respect and it was

18:55

totally changed the whole situation. So

18:57

are you only fluent in angry

18:59

Italian? And then the security guards

19:01

like saw that this was happening

19:03

so they'd come down like at

19:06

the end of the day to

19:08

teach me like dirty Venetian things

19:10

to say and that really worked.

19:12

Yeah, that's what we went on

19:14

out for sure. I'm kind of

19:16

curious. So what was the... reason

19:18

for interning there and then becoming

19:20

coordinator was it just because you

19:23

wanted to be in Italy was

19:25

that the primary reason and this

19:27

was just a means to that

19:29

or it sounds like I mean

19:31

with what you the work you

19:33

do you have some interest in

19:35

history and existing or old things

19:37

so yeah part of it as

19:40

well yeah I think both of

19:42

those things and also you know

19:44

my my mother's an artist so

19:46

I grew up like inside Lachma

19:48

you know and in her studio

19:50

and galleries and So that has

19:52

always been like a part of

19:54

my life being, you know, part

19:57

of adjacent to art. So it

19:59

was interesting to me. And also

20:01

an excuse to network at

20:03

KTGY. Sorry, KTGY, nothing

20:05

against you. I just wasn't

20:07

ready for that at that

20:09

time. But KTGY for folks

20:11

who don't know is actually,

20:14

I don't know, it's an

20:16

architecture office, but they're a

20:18

larger size office. Yeah, they're

20:21

at least countrywide. I

20:23

don't know if they have

20:25

offices outside of the US, but

20:27

all across the US, they, they, they

20:29

have offices and there are people

20:31

from that class of mind that

20:34

got hired before we graduated that

20:36

are still working there and they're

20:38

doing great. It just yeah it wasn't

20:40

the right path for me. Yeah yeah the other

20:42

thing I was wondering is you know

20:44

you had mentioned visiting that Pabstah

20:47

building that got yeah that was

20:49

an adaptive reuse project it

20:51

sounds like basically right it was

20:53

being used for something else and

20:55

that kind of struck a chord

20:57

with you. Did you have, did that

20:59

interest in that type of work, was

21:02

it very clear in your mind

21:04

when you were in school at

21:06

Cal Poly? Like for some students

21:08

that I, you know, classmates I

21:10

had, I remember they had a

21:13

very clear, maybe direction, but also

21:15

just set of interests. Like

21:17

they just wanted to do

21:19

single family houses or they

21:21

only wanted to do X thing.

21:23

And that always fascinated me. Yeah,

21:25

it kind of was. You know,

21:28

another thing that happened when

21:30

I was in high school

21:32

around that same time that we

21:34

moved to the brewery, there

21:36

was this Hugh Houser episode.

21:38

Okay, you have to explain

21:40

to people who that is

21:42

or who don't know. So

21:44

he was from Texas, I think.

21:46

Yeah, something like that. And he,

21:49

I don't know when he moved

21:51

to LA in the 80s or

21:53

something like that. And he had

21:56

this show on... on local television

21:58

and then on PBS. called

22:00

California's Gold. And he had a

22:02

local LA one too. I forget

22:04

what it's called. But in California's

22:07

Gold, he would go to all

22:09

these amazing old sites around California

22:11

and interview the people that were

22:13

working there. And it would be

22:15

like you go to the Santa

22:17

Barbara Mission and talk to the

22:19

historians and the janitor and like

22:22

whatever random pastors by. and he

22:24

was so excited about everything, you

22:26

know, whatever somebody told him, he

22:28

would say, that's amazing. Can you

22:30

believe that? So there was an

22:32

episode where he went to Long

22:34

Beach to the old naval yard

22:37

that was designed by Paul Williams

22:39

and they were about to tear

22:41

down. So he was talking to

22:43

historians and and you know people

22:45

at the naval yard and just

22:47

the same kind of thing and

22:49

you know he was trying to

22:51

figure out how to stop it

22:54

from happening so then he had

22:56

like I don't remember exactly how

22:58

it happened but he just like

23:00

turned to the camera and he

23:02

was like next Saturday or whenever

23:04

it was he tried to get

23:06

everybody to come like a whole

23:09

bunch of people to come down

23:11

to the naval yard to tour

23:13

it and show I guess the

23:15

Navy that it was important. an

23:17

important resource that we shouldn't tear

23:19

down and we could find another

23:21

use for it. So I got

23:24

my mom to drive me down

23:26

there. We went to that and

23:28

got to tour it and they

23:30

did tear it down in the

23:32

end. So I think that's when

23:34

I started thinking like, you know,

23:36

we could have made something cool

23:39

out of that. And they tore

23:41

it down and it's, you know,

23:43

just container yard now. Yeah, pretty

23:45

senseless. The Hulhouser reference is fantastic.

23:47

I mean anyone who's from California

23:49

is going to know from our

23:51

generation or other will know who

23:54

that is. to watch that. Oh

23:56

it's great he has this pretty

23:58

thick southern accent and as a

24:00

kid it didn't ever really occur

24:02

to me that he's not a

24:04

Californian I don't know why it

24:06

didn't occur to me but just

24:09

a soft you know very nice

24:11

to the year's kind of accent.

24:13

I kind of missed that because

24:15

you have someone who's not from

24:17

California. He's from a what would

24:19

typically be like a red state

24:21

and he would just tour and

24:24

like you said he was always

24:26

super thrilled to talk to whoever

24:28

it was. It just got you

24:30

excited about the thing. I know

24:32

and it was just like positivity

24:34

which seems to be hard to

24:36

come by these days. Yeah, so

24:39

that was a great great show

24:41

for sure. I mean, I think

24:43

when you look at that, like

24:45

I was putting the pieces together

24:47

without really realizing it, right? Yeah.

24:49

And, you know, I did meet

24:51

him a couple times and I

24:54

never told him that. I wish

24:56

I had to live on that.

24:58

Wait, you met Heelhauser? Yeah, yeah.

25:00

What? I met him twice. I

25:02

got to give him a tour

25:04

of a building that I worked

25:06

on an adaptive abuse project downtown.

25:09

And you know, when he shakes

25:11

your hand, it's like, your arm

25:13

is going like this. But he

25:15

was so nice and, you know,

25:17

he thought what I did was

25:19

amazing. But I wish I had

25:21

told him that. I mean, it

25:24

would have been, it would have

25:26

been nice to tell. But yeah,

25:28

that's okay. Yeah, I'm gonna guess

25:30

he's not around anymore. No, he

25:32

passed away a few years ago.

25:34

Gotcha. That was a really good.

25:36

Well, you could. pick up the,

25:39

pick up where he left off

25:41

and started your own show. You

25:43

know, that's actually really remarkable. I,

25:45

just this dumb question. Did you

25:47

get his signature? His autograph? I

25:49

didn't. Oh, I would have asked

25:51

him. Did you get a selfie

25:53

with him? No. But you know,

25:56

I grew up in Hollywood and

25:58

you're trained to like, don't talk

26:00

to those, don't talk to people.

26:02

Like, let them live their life.

26:04

I, like, my first job, I

26:06

worked at a wine shop on

26:08

Sunset Boulevard. and I did delivery.

26:11

So, you know. I would be

26:13

delivering to some random person and

26:15

then a celebrity's house and then

26:17

you know it just had to

26:19

act like it was normal. So

26:21

it's ingrained in me. So you

26:23

finished Cal Poly in 2003 I

26:26

think and then you you end

26:28

up what happens right after work

26:30

or did you work for a

26:32

few years obviously we talked about

26:34

that and then when you come

26:36

back you end up working at

26:38

Omna Giving. which is where you're

26:41

at currently or no? Yes, but

26:43

actually, you know, going back to

26:45

your question about, did I know

26:47

that that's what I wanted to

26:49

do in school, I was interested

26:51

in that. Then we're living in

26:53

Florence like I saw how Europeans

26:56

treat old buildings differently than we

26:58

do. You know, we tear things

27:00

down all the time. Sorry, I

27:02

spoke over you. In what sense

27:04

are they treat them differently? Well,

27:06

we tear things down all the

27:08

time and they don't do that,

27:11

but they also don't necessarily like

27:13

preserve it like exactly the year

27:15

that it was built, like a

27:17

house museum. They find new uses

27:19

and do cool additions and, you

27:21

know, are able to do something

27:23

great out of something old that

27:26

isn't just 100% preservation, right? So

27:28

I thought that was interesting that

27:30

kind of mix between. old and

27:32

new. So then when I came

27:34

back for my fifth year thesis,

27:36

I did a project like that

27:38

in downtown. And because I was

27:41

doing it in downtown LA, I

27:43

was doing research. I started reading

27:45

the downtown news, you know, driving

27:47

up and down between San Louis

27:49

and LA. And I found an

27:51

article about these architects that were

27:53

doing adaptive reuse in LA, Killefra

27:56

Flamein. So I started following them.

27:58

you know, there wasn't social media,

28:00

so I just was following like

28:02

articles and things. So then when

28:04

I came back from Venice and

28:06

was ready to look for a

28:08

job, my mom had a, they

28:11

had like an open studio event

28:13

at the brewery, so which was

28:15

called the Brewery Art Walk, so

28:17

at Brewery Art Walk I was

28:19

there helping her and Wade Killifer

28:21

and Barbara Flaming just happened to

28:23

come by. And then

28:25

it turned out that Barbara went

28:28

to high school with my mom.

28:30

So, you know, I got introduced

28:32

to them and Wade just said,

28:35

call us. So I did. So

28:37

then I worked, that's the only

28:39

place I interviewed because I wanted

28:41

to, I had been wanting to

28:44

work there. So I worked there

28:46

for seven years. That's where I

28:48

met Karen who started on giving

28:51

because she was there for 10

28:53

years or 15, I don't remember

28:55

exactly. And that was that time

28:57

like was when downtown was really

29:00

booming. A lot of adaptive reuse

29:02

projects were happening and opening and

29:04

there were every week there was

29:07

a new restaurant or bar or

29:09

something interesting opening. So I almost

29:11

had like an informal competition with

29:13

car and you know we see

29:16

each other on Monday and it

29:18

would be like did you did

29:20

you go to that new bar

29:23

opening? Oh yeah I went last

29:25

week, you know just. There was

29:27

so much excitement about it and

29:29

downtown Iraq was happening. It was

29:32

an exciting time downtown. So then

29:34

when 2008 happened and a lot

29:36

of that work slowed down on,

29:39

you know, people were getting furloughed,

29:41

that's when we, I started talking

29:43

to her about like, how could

29:45

we create a new office that

29:48

was only focused on downtown, focused

29:50

on, you know, Fixing

29:52

finding new uses for old buildings

29:54

because there was so much unused

29:57

building stock. How could we focus

29:59

on that? and create a place

30:01

that, you know, is like some

30:04

type of umbrella that we could

30:06

work with other people on an

30:08

as-needed basis and just collaborate. So

30:10

then she started, she started on

30:13

giving and I was furloughts. I

30:15

was only working part-time for her,

30:17

you know, in her kitchen. Like

30:20

her son was doing a coloring

30:22

homework next to me and she

30:24

was on the other side. That's

30:26

how I'm getting started. Wow. That's

30:29

awesome. So he was doing the

30:31

coloring homework. You were also doing

30:33

coloring homework, but just on a

30:36

slightly different scale. Kind of bar

30:38

your red crayon, please. That's really,

30:40

really fascinating. I got my dates

30:42

mixed up here. So. So I

30:45

overlapped. I worked for both for

30:47

a while. I see. Gotcha. I

30:49

gotcha. I gotcha. Yeah, because I

30:52

did. Your office started in 2009,

30:54

which is right after 2008, which

30:56

is a brutal, brutal time. That's

30:59

exactly why it started. Yeah. The,

31:01

I want to ask, like, the,

31:03

you talked about the reasons why

31:05

you both had these conversations of

31:08

starting an officer or. and having

31:10

this mission, which comes from an

31:12

architect's perspective and their observations of

31:15

downtown and the potential for these

31:17

buildings and all the stuff you

31:19

said, which is very fascinating because

31:21

fundamentally it's sort of like the

31:24

opposite of what a lot of

31:26

architects how a lot of architects

31:28

operate in the sense that you

31:31

saw something that was necessary. So

31:33

you sought to create an office

31:35

to help do that as opposed

31:37

to the other way around, which

31:40

is being reactive, which is saying.

31:42

What do clients need? What does

31:44

the market want? What are people

31:47

asking me to do? And then

31:49

I'll do that in response. So

31:51

I guess the question is, was

31:54

there also, was adaptive reuse desirable

31:56

by? people who owned buildings was

31:58

it a thing that people knew

32:00

about at that point in 2009

32:03

was just a phrase that existed

32:05

oh yeah it's known but no

32:07

it definitely was you know it's

32:10

it wasn't as talked about but

32:12

the city created the adaptive reuse

32:14

ordinance in like 99 I think

32:16

so a lot of those first

32:19

projects were happening in 2000 but

32:21

you know they take a long

32:23

time so yeah in 2006-78, like

32:26

a lot of Redaptories projects opened

32:28

downtown. So there was a lot

32:30

of, you know, just buzz and

32:32

excitement about that. So it definitely

32:35

was known at that time. But,

32:37

you know, when we started, we

32:39

weren't just immediately doing, you know,

32:42

full conversions of high-rise buildings. Like,

32:44

our first project was a barber

32:46

shop. And that was... In a

32:49

building that I knew, that I

32:51

worked on at KFA, I knew

32:53

the owners, they had a tenant,

32:55

they introduced me to the tenant,

32:58

so I brought that project in,

33:00

KFA didn't want the project. They

33:02

were like, it's too small, you

33:05

know, we can't do it. So

33:07

when I brought it to Karen,

33:09

so we were doing little things

33:11

like that, and we got introduced,

33:14

or she knew already, I don't

33:16

know how that happened, but introduced

33:18

to the Delagani family that owns

33:21

for historic theaters on Broadway, and

33:23

a bunch of Broadway, and a

33:25

bunch of other. buildings. And they

33:27

held these orders to comply about

33:30

like, you know, unpermitted work and

33:32

roll down grills that you're not

33:34

allowed to have on Broadway. So

33:37

we were like doing fixing things

33:39

like that. So it wasn't glamorous

33:41

necessarily. But it got us introduced

33:44

to other people. And we really

33:46

never had to do any marketing

33:48

back then. Carn was like do

33:50

you know anybody that's looking for

33:53

work and I had just seen

33:55

this guy on the sidewalk the

33:57

like a friend of mine that

34:00

got laid off from KFA and

34:02

he hadn't found a job yet so

34:04

then we hired him and then we

34:06

hired another friend of mine and

34:08

you know we just we just kept

34:11

growing really up until 2020 we

34:13

were constantly hiring constantly

34:15

getting new work and able

34:17

to say no to things. 2020

34:19

totally turned that around for

34:21

us. Which is interesting

34:23

because you know you mentioned kind of

34:25

like how you guys decided to start

34:28

that office after 2008 crash and how

34:30

Some of those big office building downtown

34:32

were not used I feel like the

34:34

same thing happened with the pandemic, right?

34:36

I mean, you know, we do work

34:38

in the Bay Area as well and

34:41

San Francisco's downtown is pretty much dead.

34:43

Everybody's gone. So there is a ton

34:45

of buildings that need that kind of

34:47

that kind of work So I would

34:49

think that Maybe by now, 2024, people

34:52

are like, reaching back out to

34:54

you and be like, hey,

34:56

we have the giant buildings

34:58

that are empty. Like, you know,

35:00

what can we do? Yeah, I

35:02

guess the other thing I wonder

35:04

with Merritt is what we're going

35:07

to say is, is so is

35:09

there an interest amongst clients,

35:12

clients, and we thought

35:14

the same thing, we, you know,

35:16

and in 2020, A lot of

35:18

projects that we had stopped if

35:21

they weren't funded already. If

35:23

they were already funded, they kept

35:25

going, but other people that didn't

35:27

have funding couldn't get it. So

35:29

those died. And we thought, okay, exactly

35:31

the same thing you thought. Everybody's

35:34

moved out. What a great opportunity

35:36

to turn a lot of buildings around.

35:38

We've done so many studies

35:40

for people to show them how they

35:43

could easily turn their office building

35:45

to housing or into something else.

35:47

Oftentimes it resulted in

35:50

like, oh, thank you so much.

35:52

I'm going to sit on this.

35:54

And just wait for the

35:57

market to turn. That's happened.

36:00

a lot. People are not, have

36:02

not been doing anything with those

36:04

studies that we did. Which was

36:06

surprising to us. Is it because

36:09

they're not sure of the, well

36:11

I guess the economy of the

36:13

country in general, is it because

36:15

they're not sure of the economic

36:18

return, like is it actually going

36:20

to pan out if they move

36:22

forward with it because of a

36:25

lack of experience or seen precedence

36:27

of other people with the same

36:29

buildings doing the same thing? You

36:31

know, you always need kind of

36:34

like the first guy to do

36:36

it for everybody to follow. Yeah.

36:38

I think downtown specifically got hit

36:41

really hard. You know, I heard

36:43

that like a third of the

36:45

residents moved out during the pandemic.

36:47

And I don't know that that

36:50

part has really recovered. So many

36:52

restaurants and bars closed. And you

36:54

know, it's a difficult place to

36:57

be. So I think people are

36:59

not building new offices. You know,

37:01

all the reasons why. And then

37:03

they're not building new housing there

37:06

either, because people don't want to

37:08

go there. Or at least that's

37:10

what people think. I mean, you

37:13

know, honestly, even us, our office

37:15

was downtown for 13 years, and

37:17

we left downtown too. That was

37:19

a little bit for different reasons.

37:22

We were trying to buy a

37:24

building for a building for a

37:26

long time. so that we could

37:29

do you know what we do

37:31

but for ourselves and we couldn't

37:33

afford to buy anything downtown so

37:35

we bought a building in Chinatown

37:38

so adjacent also like for me

37:40

it really felt like it's so

37:42

close to the brewery to downtown

37:45

it's just you know it felt

37:47

like the right spot and I

37:49

mean that we could talk about

37:51

separately but that you know even

37:54

for us being so focused. and

37:56

in love with downtown for so

37:58

long, it was hard to make

38:01

that decision to leave and to

38:03

see things closed down. And I

38:05

don't think we're unique in that.

38:07

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know,

38:10

the cost factors of a real

38:12

one for small businesses or businesses

38:14

who don't have just a lot

38:17

of cash to buy. properties in

38:19

downtown areas, but it's tough, right?

38:21

It's a lot of the city

38:23

centers in California, probably across the

38:26

United States, are suffering as a

38:28

result of the pandemic, and it's

38:30

this game of the people who

38:33

don't want to be there because

38:35

the program is not there, the

38:37

storefronts are shut down, and then

38:39

the developers and owners don't want

38:42

to do anything because no one's

38:44

there, so it's like, but someone's

38:46

got to make the first step

38:49

here, or there's got to be

38:51

some serious incentives. I don't know.

38:53

And now a quick break to

38:55

thank the sponsors who support their

38:58

second studio. Hey architects, would you

39:00

like to get your as-built faster?

39:02

Of course you would. Well IPX

39:05

has you covered. IPX lets you

39:07

seamlessly transform your laser scans into

39:09

LOD 300 BIM and CAD files.

39:11

Whether you've got your 3D scans

39:14

already or you needed full laser

39:16

scanning service, IPX offers instant pricing

39:18

and order tracking for scan to

39:20

BIM services on any project no

39:23

matter the matter the size or

39:25

complexity. Cad, 360 degree virtual tours,

39:27

and material takeoffs in their platform

39:30

where you can view, share, export,

39:32

query, and quantify areas, floors, and

39:34

materials. Check out the IPX link

39:36

and our shownotes. The second studio

39:39

podcast is sponsored by Autodesk. Do

39:41

you know about Autodesk Forma? Available

39:43

standalone or as part of their

39:46

AEC collection software bundle is a

39:48

specialized AI-aisted 3-2 design tool that

39:50

can transform early project planning. With

39:52

Former you can rapidly model multiple

39:55

massing options. at the start of

39:57

your projects and analyze the embodied

39:59

carbon costs of different volumes, layouts,

40:02

and material choices. You can then

40:04

deepen your understanding of your sites

40:06

by incorporating real world contextual data

40:08

for daylight, wind, noise, and more.

40:11

Start your projects right with Autodesk

40:13

Forma. Check out the link and

40:15

our shownotes to learn more. If

40:18

you're an inter-designer, you need to

40:20

check out programmer. Programma is the

40:22

all-in-one project management software designed to

40:24

streamline the entire design process. Its

40:27

cloud-based specification schedules are always up

40:29

to date, minimizing double handling. This

40:31

means you can spend less time

40:34

switching between tools and more time

40:36

designing. Click the Programma link in

40:38

our episode notes and use the

40:40

code Second Studio at checkout to

40:43

save 25% on a manual subscription

40:45

and enjoy exploring all of the

40:47

other tools Programma offers. I was

40:50

also wondering, so when we talk

40:52

about adaptive reuse, and let's say

40:54

we're thinking specifically about the downtown

40:56

LA region, what are those projects?

40:59

Like what are we, what kind

41:01

of buildings are we looking at

41:03

and what are they being converted

41:06

to? Are they offices to houses,

41:08

houses to offices, I don't know,

41:10

offices to retail? Like what is

41:12

the program? I mean it's a

41:15

lot, it mostly offices to housing,

41:17

some offices to hotels. That's more

41:19

of what I do on the

41:22

hotel side. Just because we had

41:24

a lot of projects, so we

41:26

had to kind of, you know,

41:28

split things off into people that

41:31

have some more expertise. But mostly

41:33

housing, I would say. But you

41:35

know, all of those buildings are

41:38

really mixed use. They're mostly 13-story

41:40

buildings and ground floor retail. And

41:42

then depends on the building, everyone's

41:44

a little bit different. There may

41:47

be different uses in different parts

41:49

of the building, mostly housing. But

41:51

we're not only focusing on downtown,

41:54

we have been looking at properties

41:56

and working all over the city,

41:58

all over the region, I guess.

42:00

Another thing that's happening, there's a

42:03

new adaptive reuse ordinance that's going

42:05

to be citywide. So the old

42:07

ordinance was only for downtown and

42:09

also Hollywood, but like. very specific

42:12

neighborhoods. There's a new ordinance that's

42:14

about to come out that's supposed

42:16

to be citywide. So you can

42:19

do this type of work anywhere.

42:21

But it's been about to come

42:23

out for like a year and

42:25

a half. So, you know, we

42:28

were part of helping to write

42:30

that. We've done a lot of

42:32

advocacy work, like helping the city

42:35

with interpreting codes and creating ordinances.

42:37

So then because of that we

42:39

know what's going on what's in

42:41

the ordinance We've been meeting with

42:44

people that have buildings all over

42:46

the city Same type of discussions

42:48

and they are waiting for the

42:51

ordinance to come out so they

42:53

can do the work So the

42:55

I'm not familiar with the ordinance.

42:57

Let's go ahead. Go ahead. Go

43:00

ahead. Oh, no. I forgot I

43:02

was going to say actually I

43:04

was going to ask the ordinance,

43:07

which I'm not familiar with so

43:09

does that? What does it does

43:11

it encourage people to do things?

43:13

Does it? force people to operate

43:16

a certain way if they have

43:18

a building that's X years old

43:20

or? No, it doesn't force you

43:23

to do anything. It just allows

43:25

you to convert office to housing

43:27

by right. So in zones where

43:29

you wouldn't be able to do

43:32

it. And I think it's for

43:34

any existing building. Yeah, it doesn't

43:36

have to be a store building.

43:39

So it really opens up the

43:41

possibilities. So I'm very curious. Let's

43:43

say I have a small commercial

43:45

building in somewhere in LA that's

43:48

just not being used anymore and

43:50

I'm thinking transforming it into housing.

43:52

Do you guys also do like

43:55

kind of like a feasibility study

43:57

and even pro forma? Let's say

43:59

like I'm thinking they could be

44:01

a good idea to turn into

44:04

housing. I don't know if it's

44:06

going to panel, if it makes

44:08

sense for the neighborhood, like financially,

44:11

how much can I rent these

44:13

units for? all of that stuff

44:15

or does the client usually come

44:17

up already with a pretty good

44:20

idea of what they want to

44:22

do? It's probably a mix. So

44:24

a lot of times the client

44:27

has an idea of what they

44:29

want to do, or a general

44:31

idea, we want to do housing,

44:33

how could we make it work

44:36

here? Oftentimes people will come with

44:38

an empty building and just be

44:40

like, can you help us? We

44:43

don't know what to do with

44:45

this. Do you have ideas? So

44:47

we'll do feasibility studies all the

44:49

time. The performer, a financial performer,

44:52

we don't really get that much

44:54

involved in that. But in terms

44:56

of the architectural part and what

44:59

you're allowed to do, yes, all

45:01

the time. And I also forgot

45:03

to mention that adaptive reuse ordinance

45:05

2.0 is city of LA. Santa

45:08

Monica doesn't have an adaptive reuse

45:10

ordinance. So we help them write

45:12

their current ordinance, which is about

45:14

to come out. But they are

45:17

like much smaller cities, so they're

45:19

doing it quickly. That will probably

45:21

come out before LA's ordinance. It's

45:24

really cool, it's really interesting. I

45:26

guess one specific, you know, adaptive

45:28

reuse architecture question is that when

45:30

we talk about converting an office

45:33

space into a hospitality hotel or

45:35

housing, the first thing that comes

45:37

to mind is the issue of

45:40

plumbing because offices generally, their plumbing

45:42

layout is completely different from what

45:44

you need for a hotel and

45:46

certain and for houses as well

45:49

and homes and units. How does

45:51

that work? Because I've heard many

45:53

times from people that it can't

45:56

be done or it's not financially

45:58

viable because specifically because of plan.

46:00

Have you heard of shared bathrooms?

46:02

I know, but you know. Yeah,

46:05

I would say we don't really

46:07

agree with that kind of thinking.

46:09

Yeah, I would assume that would

46:12

be your answer. Yeah. I mean

46:14

anything's possible but yes it does

46:16

require new plumbing because you're the

46:18

building doesn't operate. the same way.

46:21

I mean, a lot of those

46:23

office buildings have a central core

46:25

with elevators and central restrooms, and

46:28

you need to separate that out.

46:30

But you can still be efficient

46:32

with it and have all your

46:34

restroom stack, I mean, just like

46:37

you would in a new construction

46:39

building. So it's not really challenging

46:41

to do that. I think more

46:44

challenging is deeper floor plates, you

46:46

know, where you have really big

46:48

buildings. But there we have lots

46:50

of solutions for that too. So

46:53

I think most buildings it's possible

46:55

to, you know, turn into housing,

46:57

whether it's financially viable, that really

47:00

is dependent block by block. Like

47:02

how much did you have to

47:04

buy that building for? And what

47:06

kind of rents are you going

47:09

to be able to get in

47:11

that neighborhood? And those are a

47:13

lot of other factors that are

47:16

go beyond just plumbing issues. Yeah.

47:18

Yeah, yeah. We, in a similar,

47:20

we don't do the type of

47:22

work you do, we do houses

47:25

mostly, but it's a lot of

47:27

the same questions, not regarding the

47:29

plumbing, but... But remodel versus new

47:32

construction, it's always... That's true, for

47:34

sure. People want to tear down

47:36

and sometimes like, well, we could

47:38

probably reuse some of it, you

47:41

know, or... Think about it differently.

47:43

I think it's a cultural thing.

47:45

I mean, like you said, and

47:48

maybe that's like the American dream,

47:50

just kind of like built it

47:52

from scratch or like built your

47:54

own thing versus inherited something from

47:57

someone else and building on top

47:59

of that. So different mindset, but.

48:01

I could see that. So I

48:04

guess taking a step back, here's

48:06

a question I'm sure you have

48:08

many answers to, is why is

48:10

adaptive reuse valuable, important, and something

48:13

that should be done? Well, there's

48:15

lots of reasons. You know, one

48:17

is... a carbon footprint, putting a

48:19

whole, you know, especially if it's

48:22

a high-rise building, putting a whole

48:24

building into the landfill, like that's

48:26

a terrible thing on its own.

48:29

But then there's also, you know,

48:31

historic reasons and neighborhood cultural reasons

48:33

to try to keep some of

48:35

our existing fabric because it makes

48:38

the place that we live richer.

48:40

You know, there's so many type

48:42

five buildings that are being built

48:45

across the city that It's hard

48:47

to tell the difference between a

48:49

lot of them and it makes

48:51

I think you kind of lose

48:54

the uniqueness of different neighborhoods when

48:56

there's so much of the same

48:58

stock being built everywhere So, you

49:01

know, and something else that's exciting

49:03

to me is when you can

49:05

take an old building, but maybe

49:07

everybody knows visually but was not

49:10

open to the public. Like I'm

49:12

working on this elks lodge in

49:14

MacArthur Park. That's this incredible 11

49:17

story. Like what's the style of

49:19

the building? It's very like eclectic

49:21

strange but interesting building that was

49:23

a men's club like men's only

49:26

club. And then it became, you

49:28

know, just like a nightclub, an

49:30

event center. and were lots of

49:33

things we're doing to that building,

49:35

but it's making it possible to

49:37

be open to the public so

49:39

that everybody can go to that

49:42

space. You know, similar thing, I'm

49:44

working on this old craftsman house

49:46

in Silver Lake that was used

49:49

for 50, 60 years as a

49:51

florist shop, and this Japanese family

49:53

lived there and ran the florist

49:55

shop, but... And so the neighborhood

49:58

loves this. I just toured. like

50:00

the neighborhood council in the building this

50:02

week and they remember going there

50:04

as kids and going to buy flowers but

50:06

they could only go to the like to

50:08

the front porch and that was it and

50:11

now we're turning that into a hotel

50:13

and restaurant bar with a pool open

50:15

to the neighborhood so like it's opening

50:17

that up as a space that people

50:19

remember that they can also go and

50:22

experience it forever now. So that's that's

50:24

kind of a unique thing that you that

50:26

is exciting to be doing. I think

50:28

it's interesting too that the fact

50:30

that you and your family are

50:32

local to LA and I think

50:34

it probably contributes to to the

50:36

way that you see those building

50:38

and the fabric of the city

50:40

kind of changed like you know

50:42

like what you just mentioned about

50:44

this family and their businesses and

50:46

the importance of that in the

50:48

neighborhood I think only people who

50:50

care about you know the places

50:52

they live in or they've lived

50:54

in would probably pay attention to

50:56

that and I'm not sure that's

50:58

a lot of architects to be

51:01

honest because also people move a

51:03

lot and are interested in different

51:05

things and you know things just

51:07

got starts to be exported imported

51:09

and and and mix among places

51:11

but I think despite that the

51:13

importance of creating that local

51:15

place is very important. And

51:17

thinking about things that are

51:19

beyond just designing a building,

51:21

but what it means in

51:23

designing a building in this

51:25

particular site and place is

51:27

super important. Yeah, I think so too.

51:30

And I think it's not only people

51:32

that have been here for a long

51:34

time and are connected with that

51:36

kind of history, but you, even in

51:38

a place that you haven't been to,

51:40

You feel that warm when you go

51:43

into an old place that's been

51:45

renovated and turned into something

51:47

new and cool. Like there's still

51:49

a connection that you have with

51:52

it that's different than going

51:54

into a new construction building

51:56

that's, you know, beautiful, sleek

51:59

concrete and... and is cold in

52:01

some other ways. It doesn't mean that

52:03

that doesn't have a place too. This

52:05

place is big enough for all of

52:08

these things to happen. Yeah. It's a,

52:10

I really like the description of that

52:12

project and how, you know, actually when

52:14

I think about a lot of your

52:17

description didn't really have necessarily to do

52:19

with the architecture itself, but more of

52:21

what it means to the people. And

52:23

I think that's also in. Kind of

52:26

an urbanist perspective And I also find

52:28

that sometimes that's a bit lacking Amongst

52:30

architects because I mean you know this

52:32

like architects we Generally right we want

52:35

to like make our thing put our

52:37

stamp for kind of in the world

52:39

and be like this is what we've

52:42

created and this is my way of

52:44

doing it when we get to that

52:46

side of the ego spectrum And it's

52:48

actually it's like very very different if

52:51

we're talking about that individual compared to

52:53

what you're doing It's I don't know.

52:55

It's it's it's very fascinating to me

52:58

Yeah, and I think I do

53:00

think about projects and buildings in

53:03

that way. We don't do single-family

53:05

houses, and there's lots of reasons

53:07

for that, but I guess for

53:09

me, it's less interesting or less

53:11

exciting to do something that's just

53:13

for like a couple of people.

53:16

But I think, I mean, of

53:18

course, I think that there's a

53:20

place for that and a lot

53:22

of people do that and that

53:24

is great. But it's more exciting

53:27

to me to be able to

53:29

do something that a lot of

53:31

people can enjoy. That a lot

53:33

of people can be a part

53:35

of, right? Like, we're working on

53:38

Union Station right now and doing

53:40

a bunch of reorganizing and rethinking

53:42

of how that place operates. And

53:44

that is cool because it's not

53:46

just for... Like if we do

53:48

a hotel, a lot of people

53:51

can go experience that. but you

53:53

also have to have money to

53:55

do that. And Union Station is

53:57

really for everybody. So I don't

53:59

know, that's cool to be a

54:02

part of. Yeah, it really is.

54:04

It's also funny because I don't

54:06

know what it was like for

54:08

you when you were in school,

54:10

but the projects that I did

54:12

in school and what we all

54:15

did all my classmates, we very

54:17

rarely did. like a proper single

54:19

family house. You do houses at

54:21

least I did when you're like

54:23

second year first year, but they're

54:26

more experimental architectural exercises than they

54:28

are a normal house. Like when

54:30

one of Simons was designed a

54:32

house for people, someone who's blind,

54:34

then you have to think about,

54:37

it's something to work with. But

54:39

beyond those projects, all the projects

54:41

are public facing things like museums

54:43

and libraries and on that kind

54:45

of stuff. And I don't have

54:47

a question necessarily except for, I

54:50

do, since we do a lot

54:52

of houses, I do miss those

54:54

types of projects because there's just

54:56

a different set of criteria and

54:58

thinking that comes into play. Like

55:01

you really have to think about

55:03

all the stuff you mentioned and

55:05

then, I mean, obviously, you know,

55:07

there's a bunch of other stuff

55:09

regarding context and the city and

55:11

your kind of worldview is inherently

55:14

and has to be much bigger

55:16

than. Oh, Susan doesn't like red.

55:18

So we can't use red. Oh,

55:20

they like pink, but only the

55:22

shade of pink. You know, this

55:25

kind of like conversation, which of

55:27

course I'm oversimplifying house design. But

55:29

yeah, there is an aspect to

55:31

the to the work you're describing

55:33

that I personally do miss because

55:35

it's it's a different set of

55:38

issues. Yeah, and your client is

55:40

not just Susan or it's not

55:42

just the developer that wants to

55:44

turn this into, you know. whatever

55:46

we're going to change it into.

55:49

It's all of the people that

55:51

are going to use it and

55:53

the neighborhood and how it's going

55:55

to interact with what's going on

55:57

across the street in broader areas.

56:00

It's kind of a different problem

56:03

to solve. It's interesting. I was

56:05

wondering if you've ever done any

56:07

good discovery in any of the

56:10

building that you've worked on. Because

56:12

I remember working on a project

56:14

when I was back in New

56:17

York that was an adaptive reuse.

56:19

It used to be this pharmaceutical.

56:21

manufacturing building and we were serving

56:24

to transform it into kind of

56:26

an incubator for local food businesses

56:28

right and I just remember opening

56:31

doors and finding those giant equipment

56:33

and imagining the life that was

56:35

there before or like you know

56:38

like a cool thing that you're

56:40

trying to kind of like puzzle

56:42

piece thing together and understand how

56:45

the spaces were used and maybe

56:47

what's worth retaining for the the

56:49

new story to come and all

56:52

of that stuff so I was

56:54

wondering out of all of the

56:56

cool buildings you guys have worked

56:59

on in downtown LA if there

57:01

is like anything that's you know

57:03

just kind of like you know

57:06

made for a good memory Both

57:08

good and bad. Almost every building

57:10

we find something interesting like that.

57:13

You never know what you're going

57:15

to find when you take down

57:17

a wall. You know, find weird

57:20

little, I don't know, we find

57:22

like wall paintings and things like

57:24

that. I don't know, I've got

57:27

like... a handrail right here from

57:29

a building. Oh wow! Hey you're

57:31

stealing stuff from the site. This

57:34

is the last original handrail from

57:36

a building that I did downtown

57:38

but we used it to match.

57:41

Honestly when they started the project

57:43

all the handrails are there and

57:45

people kept breaking in and stealing

57:48

it for the metal for the

57:50

brass. So I got that's why

57:52

I took this piece to keep

57:55

it. You're one of the people

57:57

who broke in and stole a

57:59

piece of brass. But we were

58:02

able to match it and like,

58:04

you know, replace it. So I

58:06

mean, that's not such an exciting

58:09

story, but there's. building I worked

58:11

on on Skid Row that we

58:13

it was one of the original

58:16

like single room occupancy hotels that

58:18

was built for when the train

58:20

station used to be on 7th

58:23

Street. Anyway, it was a Skid

58:25

Row housing building and it was

58:27

like the deemed by the police

58:30

department the most dangerous housing project

58:32

in the city. So we did

58:34

a structural renovation and like combined

58:37

units to create like bigger small

58:39

apartments that have a kitchenette. Everyone

58:41

has their own bathroom instead of

58:44

a bathroom hall kind of thing.

58:46

And they wouldn't let me go

58:48

into the building without an armed

58:51

security guard. And in construction, we

58:53

found like on the ground floor,

58:55

the slab was cracked and like

58:58

sinking a little bit. So we

59:00

were trying to figure out like

59:02

what's going on with this. And

59:05

then we realized the slab was

59:07

like only an inch thick right

59:09

there. There was a body buried

59:12

there. Oh my. Who knows how

59:14

or when that happened, but somebody,

59:16

you know, did that and tried

59:18

to patch it. Wow. So strange

59:21

things. Yeah, fine. I assume when

59:23

that happens, like the whole side

59:25

gets shut down because it becomes

59:28

a... destruction gets delayed, the schedule

59:30

gets messed up, I know, I

59:32

guess it's a crime. I mean,

59:35

it is, right? Absolutely. Shut up,

59:37

go down. That's insane. I mean,

59:39

if you're gonna pour, if you're

59:42

gonna bury a body and pour

59:44

concrete, do you more than an

59:46

inch? What do you do? But

59:49

I'm kind of curious with these

59:51

projects, and I know it must

59:53

be project to projects that maybe

59:56

have some examples in mind, but

59:58

what are some of the challenges

1:00:00

with an adaptive reuse projects? I

1:00:03

mean, is it from the architect

1:00:05

side, is it dealing with the

1:00:07

regulations of changing? it over? Is

1:00:10

it meeting code requirements? You know,

1:00:12

bringing everything up to current code

1:00:14

demands? Yeah. Yes, all those things.

1:00:17

A lot of those things. Yeah,

1:00:19

a lot of projects we work

1:00:21

on are historic. So that helps

1:00:24

in some ways. We can use

1:00:26

some parts of the historic building

1:00:28

code. Honestly, the historic building code

1:00:31

is not super helpful, but there

1:00:33

are things that we can use

1:00:35

from that. a lot of times

1:00:38

the stairs almost every time the

1:00:40

stairs are not coat compliant, right?

1:00:42

But we write a modification to

1:00:45

allow that and it allows us

1:00:47

to not, you know, bring the

1:00:49

windows up to Title 24. It

1:00:52

allows us to use older versions

1:00:54

of the mechanical code. There's a

1:00:56

lot of challenges. these it's so

1:00:59

expensive to do that we get

1:01:01

historic tax credits with the National

1:01:03

Park Service so that gives you

1:01:06

like 20% of your construction costs

1:01:08

back in tax credits wow so

1:01:10

that's a whole no it's great

1:01:13

especially you know some of these

1:01:15

projects are 60 million dollars so

1:01:17

it's not little it's just yeah

1:01:20

the big chunk but then there's

1:01:22

lots of things you have to

1:01:24

be taking into account like making

1:01:27

sure that you know this historic

1:01:29

doorframe with this plaster molding we're

1:01:31

keeping intact or removing it and

1:01:34

putting it back those things are

1:01:36

all possible. So do you guys

1:01:38

do you guys have someone in

1:01:41

your team in house in the

1:01:43

office that's kind of like a

1:01:45

restoration expert for some of those

1:01:48

types of repairs or is it

1:01:50

mostly you are the Mary Poppins

1:01:52

of architects? So, but so, so

1:01:55

how does that work? I mean,

1:01:57

it sounds like you got formal

1:01:59

training in two, like, historical preservation.

1:02:02

So you just kind of like

1:02:04

do research and understand how to

1:02:06

repair and restore those types of

1:02:09

detailing and things. Yes, and learning

1:02:11

on the job. Yeah. Because, you

1:02:13

know, one of my first projects

1:02:16

was a historic adaptive reuse conversion

1:02:18

from office to housing. So I

1:02:20

learned so much on that project.

1:02:23

And often we'll have a historic

1:02:25

consultant, but that person's doing more

1:02:27

of like the writing of the

1:02:30

documents to make it be a

1:02:32

landmark to get those tax credits.

1:02:34

So I'm working with that person

1:02:37

to write the language, but he

1:02:39

or she is putting that part

1:02:41

together and then advising us on

1:02:44

like this is the right product

1:02:46

to use to remove the paint

1:02:48

off of the side of the

1:02:51

building that is not going to

1:02:53

damage the historic plaster or brick

1:02:55

or things like that. you know,

1:02:58

every project you learn something new

1:03:00

and then I have, I think

1:03:02

I'm at 15 projects that I'm

1:03:05

working on right now, but it's,

1:03:07

you know, I have a team

1:03:09

for all those projects. So then

1:03:11

I'm trying to train all of

1:03:14

my people, you know, what is,

1:03:16

what's the right thing to do?

1:03:18

And, you know, any, so I'm

1:03:21

just like this destination for questions.

1:03:23

So whether I know the right

1:03:25

answer or, you know, I don't

1:03:28

always remember every single thing, but

1:03:30

I'll remember like, oh, we dealt

1:03:32

with that at the proper hotel,

1:03:35

talk to Jonathan, I know he's

1:03:37

got the answer, he'll remember that

1:03:39

part of it. So connecting all

1:03:42

those, all these people together. And

1:03:44

then we've worked with a lot

1:03:46

of restoration contractors too, and have

1:03:49

had good and bad experiences with

1:03:51

different ones. So that we're also

1:03:53

doing. advising the contract the general

1:03:56

contractor like you know we we'd

1:03:58

recommend these couple people we did

1:04:00

have a great experience with those

1:04:03

people that kind of thing

1:04:05

so just trying to like

1:04:07

guide everybody all the

1:04:10

time so how large is your

1:04:12

office mean to say how

1:04:14

many employees do you have I

1:04:16

think we're 18 right now okay yeah

1:04:18

you guys are a good size yeah

1:04:21

we were about 39 in 2020

1:04:23

wow so we had a lot

1:04:25

of changes in the past few

1:04:27

years Obviously when you're forced to

1:04:29

downsize, it's not a great, it's

1:04:32

not a great thing, but that

1:04:34

aside, I'm wondering, do you personally

1:04:36

prefer being in a studio of

1:04:38

18 to, you know, 24, like

1:04:40

that kind of body versus one

1:04:43

that's closer to 40, because there's

1:04:45

super different work environments. It is

1:04:47

very different. I don't know that

1:04:49

I know the answer. When we were 39, we were

1:04:51

busting at the seams in our office. We

1:04:54

were all on top of each other

1:04:56

and it was hard. It was hard

1:04:58

to have a personal connection

1:05:01

with everybody. So when

1:05:03

we were more in the 20s range

1:05:05

and you know, we were like really

1:05:07

great team and we did lots

1:05:10

of things together. We were

1:05:12

around each other. I planned all

1:05:14

sorts of events outings and

1:05:16

things like that to keep that

1:05:18

kind of energy going. So

1:05:20

that was, those were good

1:05:22

numbers. I think when you get

1:05:25

bigger, it's harder to maintain

1:05:27

that. And now different challenge,

1:05:29

it's harder to maintain

1:05:31

that when not everyone's

1:05:34

working in the office all the

1:05:36

time. Yeah. Oh, yeah, right. I forgot

1:05:38

about that. Yeah. So are you guys

1:05:40

on a hybrid, what do you

1:05:42

call it, work structure? Yeah.

1:05:44

We did that, you know, obviously

1:05:46

we did that in COVID. We

1:05:49

went to 100% at home for me.

1:05:51

That was hard because I

1:05:53

went from like being crowded

1:05:55

by too many people to

1:05:57

being 100% alone So I think

1:06:00

You know, I prefer the hybrid

1:06:02

version. I've been in a couple

1:06:04

different architects roundtables where people were

1:06:07

talking about this and heard a

1:06:09

lot of people saying that they

1:06:11

really couldn't work with the hybrid

1:06:13

method. They needed people to be

1:06:16

in person so they could make

1:06:18

sure that they were working. So

1:06:20

they could look over their shoulder

1:06:22

to make sure that they were

1:06:25

actually doing work. Yeah. Yeah. And

1:06:27

that always felt strange to me

1:06:29

too. like it's a little too

1:06:31

controlling. Yeah. I know when people

1:06:33

are not doing work, like it's

1:06:36

not getting, you can tell. But

1:06:38

I also don't care if you

1:06:40

want to take a two-hour break

1:06:42

or go run errands or whatever

1:06:45

you want to do, that is

1:06:47

fine too, as long as the

1:06:49

stuff's getting done. Yeah. And so,

1:06:51

you know, when things are not

1:06:54

getting done, then you have conversations

1:06:56

with that person or you figure

1:06:58

out, maybe that's not the right

1:07:00

fit. you would have to do

1:07:03

that anyway, but without the policing,

1:07:05

like looking over your shoulder, I

1:07:07

think we realized we didn't need

1:07:09

to be there 100% but what

1:07:11

we needed was places to meet

1:07:14

to collaborate with each other. So

1:07:16

in our new office, it's actually

1:07:18

the same square footage as our

1:07:20

old office, but we have twice

1:07:23

the meeting space. So that we

1:07:25

could go there and gather and

1:07:27

then... I'm going on a tangent,

1:07:29

but we also started a co-working

1:07:32

company in our space that is

1:07:34

specifically for people in our industry.

1:07:36

So architects, branding companies, we have

1:07:38

a developer there, an appliance rep,

1:07:41

that's a little bit of a

1:07:43

mix. But we wanted to have

1:07:45

a place where people that have

1:07:47

a small office or that want

1:07:50

to be hybrid or things like

1:07:52

that have a professional place. To

1:07:54

meet to have meetings with each

1:07:56

other with clients have a materials

1:07:58

library that is managed by somebody

1:08:01

else. And we plan events and

1:08:03

things like that that are for

1:08:05

the industry. So to create that

1:08:07

kind of destination, that maybe you

1:08:10

can't do just from working from

1:08:12

home or from, you know, a

1:08:14

small office can't necessarily afford to

1:08:16

do all those things. Yeah. That's

1:08:19

awesome. I like that last part

1:08:21

in particular. I'm not familiar. Maybe

1:08:23

there are other places like that.

1:08:25

you know in California or beyond

1:08:28

that are specific for specifically for

1:08:30

our industries but that's a great

1:08:32

idea because it's definitely one of

1:08:34

the professions where sharing knowledge and

1:08:36

being around colleagues is super beneficial

1:08:39

I mean we don't know this

1:08:41

we went to school and had

1:08:43

studio right studios like the essence

1:08:45

of school and it's even when

1:08:48

you're in a large off, well

1:08:50

I guess that's the benefit if

1:08:52

you're working in a very very

1:08:54

large office is there's that kind

1:08:57

of feeling, but you're right when

1:08:59

it's a small practice it's sometimes

1:09:01

you feel like you're in your

1:09:03

own little egg. You don't really

1:09:06

get out of that and it's

1:09:08

just it's hard right because there's

1:09:10

no physical space to go and

1:09:12

be around people. I really like

1:09:14

that idea. I mean and you

1:09:17

get to talk about what you're

1:09:19

doing and you're You know, we

1:09:21

also are able to talk about

1:09:23

like how to collaborate with each

1:09:26

other on potential other projects that,

1:09:28

you know, we don't have experience,

1:09:30

you know, on paper with public

1:09:32

projects. But there's another there's another

1:09:35

office that's using our space that

1:09:37

does have that, but they don't

1:09:39

have experience in existing buildings. So

1:09:41

then we can collaborate together on

1:09:44

our piece to go after projects

1:09:46

together as a team. Yeah,

1:09:49

that's great. That makes total sense

1:09:51

things like that as an example

1:09:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah It's hard

1:09:55

to make that happen on Zoom,

1:09:58

you know Zoom has its limitation

1:10:00

for sure. Yeah, for sure it

1:10:02

does. It's interesting, the policing aspect

1:10:04

of having people in an office

1:10:07

is a funny one. I mean,

1:10:09

on one hand, I understand it,

1:10:11

but at the same time, I

1:10:13

think to your point, if you're

1:10:16

having those problems, you're gonna have

1:10:18

those problems anyway, or it probably

1:10:20

highlights that maybe this isn't the

1:10:23

right person to start with, like

1:10:25

if they can't handle their own

1:10:27

stuff, I mean, there's extremes extremes,

1:10:29

right? There's other issues, you know,

1:10:32

that come with that kind of

1:10:34

environment and setup, but yeah, I

1:10:36

think actually in a way, the

1:10:38

working remotely or in a hybrid

1:10:41

schedule probably just revealed people's innate

1:10:43

or how they would work, you

1:10:45

know, and how much responsibility you

1:10:47

can give them truly on their

1:10:50

own. This kind of the ultimate

1:10:52

test. You know, I think it's

1:10:54

not perfect. It's not a perfect

1:10:56

solution, of course. Yeah. That's one

1:10:59

of the things we're missing is,

1:11:01

you know, the camaraderie. Yeah. Which

1:11:03

we had such, I think we

1:11:06

had a great culture before that

1:11:08

we're struggling to, you know, bring

1:11:10

back. It's not gone totally, but

1:11:12

it is hard to get people

1:11:15

to come in. And we haven't

1:11:17

wanted to put a rule, like

1:11:19

a lot of hybrid people companies

1:11:21

are like, you got to be

1:11:24

tier three days a week or

1:11:26

whatever the rule is. We haven't

1:11:28

done that, but also partially, because

1:11:30

we haven't been able to pay

1:11:33

people 100% of their salary for

1:11:35

a lot of this year. So,

1:11:37

you know, it's hard to make

1:11:39

a rule like that in that

1:11:42

situation. Yeah, for sure. Kind of

1:11:44

an odd question, I suppose. Do

1:11:46

you find that the people who

1:11:49

work at your office are... They

1:11:51

must be they are they very

1:11:53

much aligned with the mission of

1:11:55

the office like Because you guys

1:11:58

do such a work and clearly

1:12:00

you know the founder and yourself

1:12:02

and the people that are higher

1:12:04

up let's say are very very

1:12:07

passionate it's a very focused thing

1:12:09

that you're doing compared to you

1:12:11

know for a lot of architects

1:12:13

are working at a place and

1:12:16

the office does commercial work but

1:12:18

it's maybe kind of generic it's

1:12:20

good it's fine but it's not

1:12:23

like they have a an attachment

1:12:25

this kind of deep mission statement

1:12:27

behind their existence as an architect

1:12:29

at this office for you guys

1:12:32

though is it different is everyone

1:12:34

at the office like you know,

1:12:36

going in the same direction? I

1:12:38

think it's not black and white.

1:12:41

I think Carn and I probably

1:12:43

are the most aligned and the

1:12:45

most passionate about this type of

1:12:47

work. I think there's a, you

1:12:50

know, a varying spectrum of how

1:12:52

passionate people are to, you know,

1:12:54

maybe the other side of why

1:12:56

people work there is because it's

1:12:59

a super interesting challenge. to work

1:13:01

on this kind of puzzle piece

1:13:03

that we work on. And I

1:13:06

think, you know, there's varying degrees

1:13:08

of everyone in between that are

1:13:10

super interested in the history or

1:13:12

in the, you know, the green

1:13:15

possibilities or positives about that. There

1:13:17

are few people in our office

1:13:19

that really want to do new

1:13:21

construction and we do that sometimes.

1:13:24

if there's an existing building on

1:13:26

a larger site, so then we

1:13:28

can rehabilitate that building and then

1:13:30

develop the rest of the site.

1:13:33

So we always are checking in

1:13:35

with everybody. We've got like a

1:13:37

lot of matrices about lots of

1:13:39

things, but one of them is

1:13:42

about people's interests and skills and

1:13:44

knowledge. So then every time something

1:13:46

new comes in, you know, if

1:13:49

there's a project that has a

1:13:51

new construction component, we're like, oh,

1:13:53

then let's make sure we put

1:13:55

those two people on it because

1:13:58

that's their passion. So we try

1:14:00

to. align things as we can

1:14:02

where possible. Yeah, yeah, I love

1:14:04

it. That makes a lot of

1:14:07

sense. I was also wondering, and

1:14:09

we might have covered this already,

1:14:11

sort of, but when it comes

1:14:13

to talking with clients about these

1:14:16

types of projects, is it hard

1:14:18

to convince someone who doesn't know

1:14:20

anything about adaptive reuse, that it's

1:14:23

a? worthwhile direction and path? Like

1:14:25

how does that conversation go? And

1:14:27

this stems from a larger interest

1:14:29

in just how architects speak with

1:14:32

clients in general, because I do

1:14:34

find that it's not easy for

1:14:36

any type of project that we're

1:14:38

talking about, but I was curious

1:14:41

about adaptive reuse. What's that what

1:14:43

that conversation is like? I think

1:14:45

we don't have that many people

1:14:47

coming to us that are wanting

1:14:50

to tear their building down and

1:14:52

we're trying to convince them not

1:14:54

to do it. That is laughing

1:14:56

at my question. I'm like, obviously,

1:14:59

yeah, that's true. That's true. Probably

1:15:01

not a good fit, then, right?

1:15:03

But, yeah. We've done a research,

1:15:06

you know. I mean, we have

1:15:08

some, you know, a good amount

1:15:10

of repeat clients, a lot of

1:15:12

referrals, a lot of people coming

1:15:15

to us because we have built

1:15:17

some kind of name for ourselves

1:15:19

in doing this kind of work.

1:15:21

So not that many times are

1:15:24

we having to have that conversation.

1:15:26

Not all the time though, like

1:15:28

for example, a few years ago

1:15:30

we worked with the city of

1:15:33

Santa Monica on the Santa Monica

1:15:35

Airport. And they specifically asked us

1:15:37

to do a study of all

1:15:40

their existing buildings at the airport

1:15:42

because they're planning to turn the

1:15:44

airport into a park. So they

1:15:46

wanted to see like what buildings

1:15:49

should we keep, what should we

1:15:51

remove? And of course our stance

1:15:53

was. Well, keep almost everything. They

1:15:55

didn't agree with all of that,

1:15:58

but there are some cool... and

1:16:00

really weird aircraft hangars like

1:16:03

there's one that's shaped like

1:16:05

a four-leaf clover that fits

1:16:07

four planes like it in

1:16:10

this weird way and so we

1:16:12

were proposing like that could become

1:16:14

a cool cafe that could become

1:16:16

you know this kind of creative

1:16:19

office space that was one

1:16:21

of the harder like clients

1:16:23

I guess to try to convince why

1:16:25

they should keep it and not

1:16:27

tear it down. that people are

1:16:29

coming to us because they have

1:16:31

something existing and they're trying

1:16:33

to figure out what to do. Do

1:16:36

you ever have the opposite where you

1:16:38

know you've looked at the building and

1:16:40

really doesn't make sense to keep it?

1:16:43

There's not much to savage.

1:16:45

You know sometimes and honestly those

1:16:47

kinds of buildings are also

1:16:49

cool like We'd love to

1:16:51

take a shitty building and

1:16:54

turn it into something cool.

1:16:56

Especially if it's not designated

1:16:58

historic, that gives you so

1:17:00

much more possibility to

1:17:02

do cool things. I often joke, like,

1:17:04

I want to be the demos

1:17:07

are of the city of LA. to be

1:17:09

like you can't demo that you can't demo

1:17:11

that you need to demo you need to

1:17:13

demo yeah yeah I I'm good I would

1:17:15

vote for you I'm good with that there

1:17:17

needs to be a demo czar or maybe

1:17:19

a committee of some sort we actually have

1:17:21

stickers here that says good architecture bad

1:17:24

architecture so that could be we could

1:17:26

do a demo non demo one and

1:17:28

you can just go on and do

1:17:30

that It's not a bad idea. It's

1:17:32

not a bad idea. You earlier come

1:17:35

about the type 5 construction, a lot

1:17:37

of it looking kind of similar.

1:17:39

I don't know. Were you

1:17:41

envisioning the single family houses,

1:17:43

multi-family houses, multi-family structures?

1:17:46

Like what were you envisioning when

1:17:48

you said that? But when I

1:17:50

said that, I was talking about

1:17:52

multi-family like, you know, the five

1:17:54

to seven stories over concrete

1:17:56

podium. Yeah. And I did some of that

1:17:58

work too at CAFA. That was one

1:18:01

of the other reasons that

1:18:03

I wanted to join Carrin

1:18:05

because I definitely learned on

1:18:07

those projects, but I got

1:18:09

bored. It's brutal. I think

1:18:11

now I'm very clearly imagining

1:18:13

what you're describing. We're probably

1:18:15

envisioning some of the same

1:18:17

exact buildings in fact, but

1:18:19

there's a lot of those

1:18:22

scattered throughout Southern California and

1:18:24

even. Northern California, sort of,

1:18:26

but a lot of in

1:18:28

Southern California. And I was

1:18:30

joking with the friend a

1:18:32

while ago that there's, you

1:18:34

know, kind of like four

1:18:36

versions of that building. There's

1:18:38

the box version where you

1:18:40

put a big box around

1:18:42

like three stories and you

1:18:44

create boxes. You have like

1:18:46

the ribbon version, then you

1:18:48

have, I don't know, there's

1:18:51

another like two that I'm

1:18:53

forgetting. And that's kind of

1:18:55

it. And some of them

1:18:57

are good for sure. they're

1:18:59

not groundbreaking but for what

1:19:01

they're doing they make sense

1:19:03

but a lot of them

1:19:05

are just super mediocre and

1:19:07

it's brutal because we need

1:19:09

housing and they're popping up

1:19:11

so that's good but it's

1:19:13

also like what are we

1:19:15

doing to the city just

1:19:18

this generic repetition I think

1:19:20

we're sort of you know

1:19:22

clients sometimes feel like it's

1:19:24

more expensive to keep a

1:19:26

building and do an adaptive

1:19:28

reuse or more expensive. Or

1:19:30

remodeled than just tearing down

1:19:32

and starting new. And I

1:19:34

guess if there is some

1:19:36

repair work, maybe there is

1:19:38

some, you know, some costs

1:19:40

associated to that. But you're

1:19:42

still saving. The way I'm

1:19:45

thinking about is that you're

1:19:47

still saving on foundation, time,

1:19:49

like building, you know, the

1:19:51

bones of the structure. So

1:19:53

if you found that it's,

1:19:55

is it true that they're

1:19:57

usually more expensive or not

1:19:59

so much because you're saving

1:20:01

quite a bit in keeping

1:20:03

with them. What about time

1:20:05

schedule? Yeah, those are great

1:20:07

questions. It really depends on

1:20:09

the building. There are a

1:20:12

lot of things in, you

1:20:14

know, high-rise historic buildings that

1:20:16

you couldn't recreate today. So

1:20:18

that is a great cost

1:20:20

savings from that. The schedule,

1:20:22

honestly, often it's the same

1:20:24

timeline to do something new.

1:20:26

It's a hard question to

1:20:28

answer because, you know, a

1:20:30

lot of those type five.

1:20:32

seven story apartment buildings that

1:20:34

we're talking about are taking

1:20:36

over much lower density properties,

1:20:39

right? So they're able to

1:20:41

get way more units out

1:20:43

of the site. Right. So

1:20:45

you're able to get more

1:20:47

out of it. Yeah. You

1:20:49

know, in a high rise

1:20:51

building that probably is already

1:20:53

taller than the zone allows,

1:20:55

so you have an existing

1:20:57

non-conforming FAR, you're able to

1:20:59

get more by keeping it.

1:21:01

So, you know, it's a

1:21:03

calculation that is really dependent

1:21:06

on each site. Yeah, that's

1:21:08

really cool. I like that

1:21:10

the investigative aspect of what

1:21:12

you do, you know, the

1:21:14

feasibility studies, but just in

1:21:16

general for the projects like

1:21:18

understanding what you're working with

1:21:20

and then moving from there.

1:21:22

The final question that we

1:21:24

always ask for fun is

1:21:26

what is your favorite building?

1:21:28

And maybe I'll also ask

1:21:30

for two buildings, one more

1:21:32

historic and then one that's

1:21:35

new. And they don't have

1:21:37

to be your own projects,

1:21:39

just buildings in general. I

1:21:42

really love the Hollywood Bowl.

1:21:44

That's a good one. I've

1:21:46

not had that one before.

1:21:48

I love that place. You

1:21:50

know, and maybe part of

1:21:53

that is because when I

1:21:55

was a kid, that's where

1:21:57

we would go by our

1:21:59

Christmas tree at the Hollywood

1:22:02

Bowl. parking lot. And then

1:22:04

we could run around, you

1:22:06

know, the seating area and

1:22:08

you could watch the orchestra

1:22:10

rehearse during the day and

1:22:13

it's a place that if

1:22:15

you're, if you have a

1:22:17

lot of money, you can

1:22:19

get one of those boxes

1:22:22

in the front and be

1:22:24

right up close. If you

1:22:26

don't, you can get a

1:22:28

$12 seat in the back

1:22:30

and it's both experiences are

1:22:33

amazing. The whole city comes

1:22:35

together. depending on what type

1:22:37

of concert you're going to

1:22:39

the audience is different like

1:22:42

if you go to classical

1:22:44

it's a bunch of old

1:22:46

white people shishing you for

1:22:48

talking but it's like it's

1:22:51

like this calm Zen experience

1:22:53

if you go to like

1:22:55

a you know jazz and

1:22:57

blues night like everybody is

1:22:59

sharing their food across the

1:23:02

aisle to everyone else and

1:23:04

it's just like a great

1:23:06

party I don't know if

1:23:08

that place is magical. Like

1:23:11

it. That's a great one.

1:23:13

And the building is so

1:23:15

cool too. I made a

1:23:17

Halloween costume out of the

1:23:19

holler bowl once. Was the

1:23:22

bowl the hat or was

1:23:24

it a full body and

1:23:26

clothes? Oh, it's like, oh

1:23:28

my. I can show your

1:23:31

picture. It's right there actually.

1:23:33

And then a new construction

1:23:35

building? That's a harder question.

1:23:37

You know, I love Peter

1:23:39

Zuntor and like the the

1:23:42

baths involves, that is an

1:23:44

incredible place. I also am so

1:23:46

upset about Lachma because I love those

1:23:48

old buildings. I love those old buildings.

1:23:51

I love the new idea. I'd love

1:23:53

the idea of going across the street

1:23:55

and like having that amorphous thing that

1:23:58

you can drive under and be above.

1:24:00

And I just hate that we had

1:24:02

to tear the old building down to

1:24:04

do that. So I don't know if

1:24:07

that's, I'm conflicted with that, but. Yeah.

1:24:09

Nice, love it. This was great. Thanks

1:24:11

so much for making the time. Yeah.

1:24:14

Nice, love it. This was great. Thanks

1:24:16

so much for making the time. And

1:24:18

seeing how you are the person that

1:24:20

everyone comes to for questions, that is

1:24:23

why we're doing. Thank you everybody for

1:24:25

listening to this week's episode. If you

1:24:27

like what we're doing, then please support

1:24:30

the show by leaving a review of

1:24:32

it in the Apple Podcast app. You

1:24:34

can also find us on Spotify and

1:24:36

YouTube where you can subscribe like, I

1:24:39

think. I don't know if you can

1:24:41

rate on those places, comment, share, etc.,

1:24:43

etc. Yeah, we're still on social media.

1:24:46

Second Studio Power is on Instagram. We

1:24:48

have the website and we have the

1:24:50

hotline. Two on three, two, two, two,

1:24:52

two, six, nine, five, zero. You can

1:24:55

send a text message. If a voicemail,

1:24:57

if there is anything you want to

1:24:59

share, any guess you want to see

1:25:02

on the topic you want us to

1:25:04

talk about, feel free to contact us

1:25:06

and send your suggestions.