0:00

This is the second studio hosted by

0:02

the architecture and design office fame. My

0:04

name is David Lee, and with me

0:06

is Marina Board Darrow Ney, the two

0:08

of us are partners at the office,

0:10

Architects, and of course, host of the

0:12

show. Today it's the two of us,

0:15

and we are doing the part two

0:17

of favorite buildings. In part one, Marina

0:19

revealed to the world her three favorite

0:21

buildings, and in that recording, I did

0:23

most of the talking. So we're going

0:25

to switch it. So we're going to

0:27

name some favorite buildings, and then. you're

0:30

going to do most of the

0:32

talking. No pressure at all. That's

0:34

the agenda for today. Depends how

0:36

good your favorite buildings are. What

0:38

will be the three favorite

0:40

buildings of mine? Nobody knows.

0:43

sponsors. This episode of the second

0:45

studio is brought to you by

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Check out the link in our show notes to

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learn more. This is the second studio with

1:48

Marina and myself. Here we go. Are you

1:50

ready for... So I have a list of...

1:52

I see that on your phone you have

1:54

like a dozen building listed, but you understand

1:57

it we're talking about three only, right? I know,

1:59

but I don't know. same one as

2:01

the ones I picked. No, no, no.

2:03

I wouldn't do that. I don't know

2:05

if you wouldn't. Those are not my

2:08

favorite buildings, for sure. Well, we're here

2:10

again. The Pompidou. It's too bad you

2:12

have to tune in. The Farnsworth. And

2:14

Johnson Wax? Yeah, those are good ones,

2:17

but not my favorites for sure. No.

2:19

No. I really did mean what I

2:21

said when I didn't know what the

2:24

three were going to be because, okay,

2:26

look, I haven't been to see all

2:28

the buildings I would like to see,

2:31

so I think my list is very

2:33

much biased toward the things I've seen.

2:35

And yeah, but I just, a lot

2:37

of the buildings on my list are

2:40

in France, because we frequent the country

2:42

of France more often than anywhere else.

2:44

I wonder why. And so I feel

2:47

kind of bad because as I was

2:49

going through as I was going through

2:51

as I was going through this list

2:53

and, you know, looking through my iPhone

2:56

photos, which is basically the only way

2:58

I can keep track of what happened

3:00

my life. My life is only understood

3:03

through the lens of iPhone photographs. It's

3:05

basically, okay, when do we go to

3:07

do traveling to different places? And it's

3:10

mostly friends. One of my three I'll

3:12

designate to the Rangshanp Chapel by Kuberzier

3:14

because I've said many times before I

3:16

think on the show that that if

3:19

someone asks me that's usually my first

3:21

answer and I was tempted to stray

3:23

away from that because of those because

3:26

of that but it's the truth I

3:28

you know that's that's probably one of

3:30

my favorite buildings. So you're starting with

3:32

with the most expected one. I see.

3:35

I see how you're doing. Yeah, yeah,

3:37

yeah. Okay. Yeah, can you tell us

3:39

why it is your favorite building? Like

3:42

what makes it stand out from others

3:44

that you've seen and experience? You know,

3:46

it's a funny thing for being an

3:49

architect who dissects and critiques build... every

3:51

day with our own work and then

3:53

students work and then other buildings that

3:55

we see. No. You don't know why.

3:58

Well, I'll say this. So I've been

4:00

to. I was going to say, when

4:02

was the first time you visited? Yeah.

4:05

Shepherd d'Anshan. Yeah. What is it? Shepherd

4:07

d'Anshan in French. Shepherd, do you know?

4:09

Shepherd. I've been there twice now. The

4:11

first time was when I was a

4:14

student in architecture school, and I think

4:16

I was a fourth, I took a

4:18

gap here, so I might have been

4:21

technically a fifth year student, somewhere around

4:23

there, and it was a small group

4:25

of us, I think two or three

4:28

French guys and myself, is that right?

4:30

And maybe a few other friends, I

4:32

can't recall, and we did a road

4:34

trip, oh yeah, there was five of

4:37

us, we did a road trip throughout

4:39

France for a couple of days or

4:41

a week or a week or a

4:44

week or a week or whatever, or

4:46

whatever, and this was on the list

4:48

and the thing is for people who

4:50

don't know this chapel is not close

4:53

to anything or anywhere it's significant it's

4:55

in a small small town right and

4:57

it's what five and a half hour

5:00

drive from from Paris no it's in

5:02

the countryside the thing also it is

5:04

a chapel a white chapel on a

5:07

hillside and so it's a journey to

5:09

get to this place and so I've

5:11

always wondered if my affinity toward this

5:13

building how much of it is because

5:16

of the journey itself and the lead

5:18

up, the anticipation, right? The dedication to

5:20

driving five and a half miles and

5:23

a small tiny French car eating snack

5:25

food, and then, um... trying to find

5:27

this chapel in the small town, you

5:29

know, you have to kind of find

5:32

it, right? You have to search for

5:34

it. And then you see it from

5:36

a distance that you drive and approach

5:39

this town or you're in the town,

5:41

you see on this hillside, this tiny

5:43

white speck, that's the chapel, and it's

5:46

kind of like the clouds part, and

5:48

it's there, we've, we see it, the

5:50

thing that we all have known about

5:52

and seen in pictures for so long,

5:55

and it's Corberousia. finally see it on

5:57

a hillside as a spec and then

5:59

you have to find out how to

6:02

get to the hillside and get up

6:04

there rather and so that was the

6:06

first time I saw it and I

6:08

think we were on site for maybe

6:11

a couple hours and as I've said

6:13

before it was probably the first time

6:15

where after I saw the building and

6:18

we were leaving the site and again

6:20

after being there for a couple hours,

6:22

it just, it was very clear that

6:24

one would need to be on the

6:27

site around the building and in the

6:29

building for at least a full day

6:31

from sunrise to sunset to fully understand

6:34

and digest everything that's going on with

6:36

it, even though it's a very very

6:38

small structure. and it is just a

6:41

white, you know, the concrete roof, but

6:43

a white structure on a flat plot

6:45

of land that's, you know, on a

6:47

hillside, but it's a flat pot of

6:50

land. Even with all that, right, there's

6:52

not a lot of hardcore site engagement,

6:54

you know, it's not like the building

6:57

is... cantilevering over a hillside. It's not

6:59

like there are trees going through the

7:01

roof. It's not like it's built over

7:03

a boulder or it's partially underground. It's

7:06

just a building sitting on a flat

7:08

pad of grass. And yet, that was

7:10

a feeling I had when I first

7:13

thought was I need to be here

7:15

for much longer. But so you went

7:17

there twice. Did you feel the same

7:20

emotion? The two times you went there?

7:22

Or was the second time less magical

7:24

than the first time? The second time

7:26

was just as good. It was just

7:29

as good. And the third time will

7:31

probably be just as good too. I

7:33

always felt like when you go to

7:36

see buildings, the first time you see

7:38

it, you don't, it's more like a

7:40

first date. Sound like a weird. But

7:42

it's the first date. And so it's

7:45

kind of, it does feel that way

7:47

to me. So it's. kind of like

7:49

an awkward interaction. You're trying to understand

7:52

and get to know each other. And

7:54

as a viewer, there's so much information

7:56

to take in. And there's also the

7:59

lead up to the building, whether it

8:01

be the journey I've described for a

8:03

wrong shop, or it's just something more

8:05

standard, like you're driving 15 minutes down

8:08

the city blocks to find an ome

8:10

building. You know, it doesn't matter. There

8:12

is all of the story leading up

8:15

to seeing the thing, which does impact

8:17

how you feel about it. and the

8:19

seasons and the day of the week

8:21

and all those things that kind of

8:24

shape it. And so I think that

8:26

the first time you see a building

8:28

is it's kind of like to really

8:31

be able to talk about a building

8:33

and understand it you need to see

8:35

it probably two or three times I

8:38

feel. So the first time was probably

8:40

overwhelming. You know when you meet someone

8:42

for the first time it's like exciting

8:44

and kind of awkward and there's and

8:47

there's some. It's kind of hard sometimes

8:49

to fully understand all the things that

8:51

are taking place. And I feel like

8:54

that was the case with the chapel.

8:56

And that's also why probably I want

8:58

to be there for much longer. And

9:00

so the second time was kind of

9:03

like peeling the onion and then starting

9:05

to just be there with the structure

9:07

and understand it and not have the

9:10

story of going to see the building

9:12

kind of shape my views of it.

9:14

So I think there's like a commerce

9:17

sense when you're at a structure the

9:19

second time, you know, you can just

9:21

kind of exist there. Less of that

9:23

appreciation. So yeah, so different, very very

9:26

different the second time. I mean, it

9:28

is a pretty funky building. I have

9:30

to say it's very interesting. I wouldn't

9:33

put it as my favorite. Get out

9:35

of here. How dare you even though

9:37

I really know that's the case. Because

9:39

you've chosen three. No, I mean, if

9:42

I had to pick my favorite building

9:44

from Corbu, I don't know that that

9:46

would be the one. Did you choose

9:49

any buildings from Corbu? No, I was

9:51

trying to get away from... I always

9:53

refer Corbu to things when I think

9:56

about stuff, so I would just hang

9:58

away. run away from him again. But

10:00

actually when I look at the pictures

10:02

on the screen of the facade and

10:05

kind of like the other side of

10:07

the roof that looks like the underside

10:09

of a boat and so it actually

10:12

reminds me one of my first one

10:14

of my art project in architecture school

10:16

in my first year we had this

10:18

clay modeling studio class that we had

10:21

to do. We had basically a block

10:23

of clay, a block of dirt, and

10:25

we were supposed to like... make shapes

10:28

like abstract landscape out of it. Like

10:30

make it in 3D with the with

10:32

the dirt and with the clay and

10:35

then draw it. Oh cool. Which was

10:37

kind of cool but mine look, I

10:39

don't know, first year you don't know

10:41

what you're doing, you're trying to understand

10:44

what does the teacher want? Yeah. And

10:46

how do I make something look good?

10:48

And you're playing with your hands and

10:51

with that thing and there's no plan.

10:53

You're just kind of like going for

10:55

it. you know like make shapes and

10:57

was there any dirt was it's meant

11:00

to be something no it was just

11:02

meant to be just a shape just

11:04

to kind of like play with shape

11:07

understand it and then you would position

11:09

it and like draw it you know

11:11

find the best angle to draw it

11:13

look at their light the shadows and

11:16

and know like learn how to represent

11:18

that and understand that. So I mean

11:20

it was a pretty good exercise, but

11:23

my thing looked kind of weird. I

11:25

should find pictures and show you. It's

11:27

not my favorite thing. I was like,

11:30

I mean I did the exercise, I'm

11:32

not happy with it. And whatever I

11:34

see, the shepherd d'enchant, I always remind

11:36

myself of this clay thing I did,

11:39

which I didn't really like. So I

11:41

get kind of mixed feeling about the

11:43

building because you reminds me of that

11:46

so much. It's a pretty funky building.

11:49

It's not really a building, it's more

11:51

like a sculpture than a building, but it's

11:53

not a sexy sculpture. You know, like there's...

11:55

Some, like, you know, like, the scriptures

11:57

by Moore, for example, are very voluptuous curves

12:00

and, you know, very, like, sensual and,

12:02

and, like, very sexy. And this is more

12:04

like a, kind of an awkward sculpture of

12:06

a building, which goes back to, like,

12:08

you know, the notion of beauty and, and

12:11

what does it mean? Does something need to

12:13

be beautiful to be interesting or to

12:15

provoke emotion on people? And probably not. What

12:17

are you doing? I'm trying to pull

12:19

up the floor plan. I was going to

12:21

ask if you, because you've been there twice,

12:24

if you would be able to draw

12:26

some kind of floor plan of the space.

12:28

No, I couldn't. I, um... It's pretty funny,

12:30

floor plan. I wonder if this was

12:32

the actual plan, because it looks like it

12:35

was hand drawn. Yeah. Might have been.

12:37

I mean, the thing that I wasn't thinking

12:39

about was the floor, I guess, tile pattern,

12:41

which is also very, very, very, very,

12:43

very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very,

12:46

very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very,

12:48

very, very, very, very, very, very bizarre,

12:50

very, very, very, very, very, very bizarre, very,

12:52

very, very bizarre, very, very, very, very,

12:54

very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very,

12:56

very, very, very bizarre, very, very, very, very,

12:59

Now that I see it. But

13:01

this doesn't have the pew, it

13:04

does have the pews. Yeah, this

13:06

can, is this, are the pews

13:08

only here? And then this is

13:10

all just circulation. When we went,

13:12

we entered the store, we sat

13:15

here, we did a candle there,

13:17

and that was that. So what,

13:19

this is all circulation? It's all

13:21

open space, yeah. Huh. I

13:24

always wish when I go to

13:26

visit buildings that I would have

13:28

a floor plan of the building

13:30

in hand and a section potentially

13:33

and a drawing set, but not

13:35

like CDs, just like floor plan

13:37

elevation and section and then roof

13:39

plan because I think it would

13:41

really help. I might start doing

13:43

that when we plan trips. So

13:45

because I think it can really

13:47

help me understand connect the dots

13:49

between how a space feels and

13:51

then what it looks like in

13:53

plan. And to be honest, I

13:55

know that they say that. I

13:57

don't think that's a very common

13:59

thing to do. Like whenever we

14:01

would visit buildings as students... and

14:03

presumably that's the time when you're

14:05

meant to be learning the most

14:07

in a certain way. We never

14:09

had with us during the site

14:11

visits plans of the buildings, but

14:13

really you absolutely should. Because especially

14:15

as a student, you don't understand

14:17

necessarily when you draw something how

14:19

it feels in space. Once you

14:21

get to, you know, more experience

14:23

you do, but I think like

14:25

again, connecting those neurons, right, is

14:27

critical. And we never did that.

14:29

It seems odd. I mean, for

14:31

giant, giant buildings, maybe it's more

14:33

difficult to have a problem to

14:35

solve. But certainly when you go

14:37

to see, you know, in Los

14:39

Angeles, like the case study houses

14:41

or houses or smaller structures, chapels

14:43

and whatnot, like you should really

14:45

have a floor plan. I mean,

14:47

sometimes they do. We went to

14:49

see this house where Franklin right

14:51

here in LA. that they give

14:53

you like a little brochure to

14:56

tour the house so it's like

14:58

a sale. That's right, the hollyhock.

15:00

The hollyhock house, it's you know

15:02

kind of like a self-guided tour

15:04

you have to do a pamphlet

15:06

with you and you can look

15:08

at it and there is a

15:10

floor plan in that. Yeah. That

15:12

was pretty, that was actually pretty

15:14

handy I would agree with you

15:16

because you look at the floor

15:18

plan and it looked like this

15:20

massive house on a drawing and

15:22

when you're in the space it

15:24

didn't feel like that at that

15:26

at that at all at all

15:28

at all at all at all.

15:30

Yeah, but no, I couldn't draw

15:32

it because when I was there

15:34

I wasn't thinking about what it

15:36

would look like and plan Had

15:38

I thought about that I could

15:40

probably figure it out, but it

15:42

also is a type of structure

15:44

that It doesn't really ask ask

15:46

to be thought about in that

15:48

way. Like it doesn't care about

15:50

that. I'm not saying that Corbrizzi

15:52

didn't pay attention to the floor

15:54

plan or the floor plan is

15:56

not important in generating this work

15:58

of architecture, but the experience of

16:00

the building is not about that.

16:02

As opposed to a lot of

16:04

modern architecture. which is about the

16:06

rigidity and the rigor through which

16:08

one designs a floor plan and

16:10

the entire building by following a

16:12

structural grid of some kind or

16:14

an implied grid or things being

16:16

aligned to here and everything has

16:19

to be aligned, right? I've talked

16:21

about it before, like I think

16:23

that's one of the downsides of

16:25

a lot of modern architects is

16:27

that they almost become too confined

16:29

to everything must have a... a

16:31

geometric alignment purpose. You know, it's

16:33

aligned or misaligned for very specific

16:35

reasons, it's orthogonal, and everything's like

16:37

very calculated, right? The plan feels

16:39

very calculated. The building might feel

16:41

great and have a great experience,

16:43

but it's also very calculated as

16:45

a result of being calculated. And

16:47

this building is not that. I

16:49

think like what you said, it's

16:51

more, it feels more like a

16:53

sculpture, it physically and formally looks

16:55

more like a sculpture, what one

16:57

would imagine a sculpture being. And

16:59

so when you're there, you don't,

17:01

you just, for me at least,

17:03

I just enjoyed the, just the

17:05

raw like visual experience of. the

17:07

building, the place, and all the

17:09

moments and rooms and things. And

17:11

I wasn't thinking about like, what

17:13

is this, how does this align

17:15

to there and, you know, whatever

17:17

else? I think that also goes

17:19

back to program, you know, like

17:21

this is a chapel. Yeah, fair.

17:23

It's a spiritual place. It's a

17:25

place where, you know, of... I

17:28

was kind of saying telling

17:30

stories, but you know, like

17:33

you're, you're, you're, you're, you're,

17:35

you're reading a book, right?

17:37

And you're meditating, you're thinking,

17:39

so it kind of makes

17:41

sense that the building would

17:43

reflect, reflect that aspect. Yeah,

17:45

I mean, on this podcast,

17:47

we often ask architects. what

17:50

is one building type that

17:52

they have not designed and

17:54

would like to? And we've

17:56

got a bunch of different

17:58

answers, but a spiritual place

18:00

is what a lot of

18:02

architects say, is a common

18:04

answer. And it's because it's,

18:06

it's, you know, I think

18:09

the, the, for the, the

18:11

non-architects, the listening, the spiritual

18:13

aspects of architecture, and the

18:15

emotions it helps people feel,

18:17

is the, it's probably the

18:19

first few baby steps architects

18:21

take when they're learning architecture

18:23

in school. That's what you

18:25

start with, right? in

18:28

those first few exercises, you do

18:30

design things like chapels or just

18:33

spaces, right? They're like, it's a

18:35

space for thinking, a space for

18:37

bathing, a space for, and we'll

18:39

always call it a space, which

18:41

is to suggest that it is

18:43

divorced from any preconception about what

18:45

a building of that type is.

18:48

It's just a space for this.

18:50

It's all about light and form

18:52

and... play of those two things

18:54

and mass and movement and that's

18:56

all it is. Those only tools,

18:58

only things you're considering. You're not

19:01

thinking about, you're not really thinking

19:03

about structure in a really realistic

19:05

sense. You're not thinking about sustainability.

19:07

You're not thinking about program really.

19:09

You're not thinking about budget constructability.

19:11

All that stuff is you're not

19:13

thinking about. It's just the fundamentals.

19:16

And the funny thing is as

19:18

you go on as an architect,

19:20

it becomes with the way the

19:22

way the world is. it becomes

19:24

harder and harder and harder to

19:26

produce work that is expressive of

19:28

those initial first baby steps and

19:31

projects that we all did. And

19:33

that's really the struggle. One of

19:35

the biggest struggles in the career

19:37

of an architect is to do

19:39

work like that. And I think

19:41

that's also why architects who are,

19:43

we've interviewed who are 60, 70

19:46

years old, whatever, had long careers

19:48

done all different types of stuff,

19:50

successful by almost any measure, they

19:52

are drawn to that because there's

19:54

freedom in a building like that.

19:56

And it's like the purest form

19:59

in some ways of you know,

20:01

the experience of architecture, which is

20:03

just really hard to do when

20:05

you're doing a hospital or a

20:07

library or even a house, you

20:09

know, things that have more flexible

20:11

programs. There's a lot of other

20:14

constraints that I mentioned, right? Sustainability,

20:16

constructability, budget and all of schedule

20:18

and all those things can feel

20:20

like their, you know, weights on

20:22

the shoulder. So yeah, travel will

20:24

be fun to design. I think.

20:26

But it's not like the travel

20:29

doesn't have program either. There's a,

20:31

there's, you know, four or five

20:33

different pockets of space. There's an

20:35

outdoor, I don't even know what

20:37

it's called in the proper, you

20:39

know, Christian terms, the outdoor gathering

20:42

area where the priest kind of

20:44

comes out and then says his

20:46

sermons and whatnot. It's like a

20:48

little amphitheater sort of setting. Yeah,

20:50

but I don't think that's typical

20:52

of churches. I mean, usually churches

20:54

happen inside. I think that's kind

20:57

of a Corby thing on the

20:59

church. Okay, I mean, that's a

21:01

good one. That's a good one.

21:03

I mean, you've seen all the

21:05

buildings from Corby, but that's still

21:07

the one that stood out the

21:09

most. I like a lot of

21:12

his work. I mean, on my

21:14

list was the Unite. On my

21:16

list was the Fairmity Chapel. Oh,

21:18

there are Unitos or so, on

21:20

my list. Yeah, on my list

21:22

was the Swiss, the pavilion we

21:24

saw in Switzerland. That's also one

21:27

of my favorite, I felt like

21:29

it was kind of like a

21:31

Rubik's Cube, but like you can

21:33

go in or something. Like, it

21:35

just felt like a giant, like

21:37

an adult playhouse, you know, like,

21:40

like, yeah. Yeah. Even to be

21:42

even to be honest, The project,

21:44

Villasavois, is a great building. The

21:46

Villasavois, I think, is, I don't

21:48

think many architects would put that

21:50

on their top, you know, five

21:52

or ten buildings. And I think

21:55

it's partly because it's been over

21:57

dissected and like there's fatigue. Everybody

21:59

you know about it in school.

22:01

Yeah. I also feel like the

22:03

unity or even the pavilion we

22:05

saw in Switzerland had a lot

22:07

of details what I like about

22:10

his work is that it's goes

22:12

it touches on other scale of

22:14

the building you know it's like

22:16

from what's like from the context

22:18

where is the building and what's

22:20

around it to like thinking about

22:22

it in terms of like more

22:25

theoretically like theoretically like theoretically yeah

22:27

like the unity for example is

22:29

like thinking about an urban, you

22:31

know, an urban ecosystem within a

22:33

building, you know, and like developing

22:35

internal streets and this and that,

22:38

and down to like, you know,

22:40

the cabinet detail, the handles, the

22:42

hinges. The glass partitions between spaces.

22:44

Yeah, which that reminds me, is

22:46

anyone who likes to read and

22:48

likes architecture, you should read the

22:50

book High Rise by, is it

22:53

J.G. Ballard? I'm getting confused between

22:55

people, I think. There's also a

22:57

movie that was done. The movie

22:59

is weird. High Line. High Rise

23:01

featuring Tom, the guy who plays

23:03

Loki, he had a Hildleston. Oh

23:05

yeah. That was released, I don't

23:08

know, 2017 or something. Anyway, the

23:10

book is a joyful read, it

23:12

goes by quickly, and it takes

23:14

place in a structure that... I

23:16

don't know if it actually was

23:18

based off of the Unity, but

23:20

it is basically the Unity. When

23:23

they just wrap it in the

23:25

book, it's the Unity. Oh, and

23:27

the building is, seems like it's

23:29

much higher though. Possibly. Well, based

23:31

off of. But I mean, it

23:33

has all the same elements when

23:36

they talk about it in the

23:38

book. Who told me, was he

23:40

you, who told me that whatever?

23:42

Building there is there is a

23:44

trash shoot and every time like

23:46

in a really tall tower I

23:48

think it's a friend and every

23:51

time you throw your trash in

23:53

the trash shoot it sounds like

23:55

a bomb is coming off because

23:57

of the high Oh, no, that's

23:59

a real building, I think. Did

24:01

you tell me that? No, no,

24:03

it was a friend and it

24:06

was, I won't name things, but

24:08

it was designed by famous architects,

24:10

a modern building, a contemporary building,

24:12

like done in the last 10

24:14

years or so, that was built,

24:16

and then they didn't handle the

24:19

trash routes correctly. Which, you know,

24:21

I also want to say with

24:23

that. That for most people and

24:25

rightfully so they'd be like what

24:27

a stupid architect how can you

24:29

do this whole building and not

24:31

think about that at the same

24:34

time I will say of all

24:36

the many things an architect has

24:38

to think about I don't want

24:40

to make excuses but like shit

24:42

like that falls through the crack

24:44

sometimes you know what I mean

24:46

like it's just you know there

24:49

is a lot of things to

24:51

know but that's also where you

24:53

should be working with an architect

24:55

of record who would catch those

24:57

things and has like a lot

24:59

of experience with that building time

25:01

and would know you know, not

25:04

to do whatever. But anyway, so,

25:06

so high rise, I would definitely

25:08

read. But Cobruzia is worse. This

25:10

is still a favorite of mine.

25:12

Even though I listed all the

25:14

other ones on my list, I

25:17

think it's just, I don't know.

25:19

I feel like every, there's four

25:21

sides to the building, roughly speaking.

25:23

And I feel like. at each

25:25

four sides of the building and

25:27

if the four corners on the

25:29

inter like every kind of you

25:32

know elevation you would draw if

25:34

you were doing a city set

25:36

there's a it's a it's a

25:38

it's a it's a thing to

25:40

study and that's what I think

25:42

makes it so interesting is that

25:44

every side is is fascinating that's

25:47

also why it's probably not everyone's

25:49

cup of tea to it and

25:51

in its shape. And it has,

25:53

I don't know, it just has

25:55

a lot of stuff happening. And

25:57

I think the way that the

25:59

elements interact with each other are

26:02

successful. and near perfection and they're

26:04

also not things that are the

26:06

results of a person who's going

26:08

to sit down and again draw

26:10

a bunch of grids and calculate

26:12

this and that angle align secure

26:15

and we got a line to

26:17

the view and align to the

26:19

tree and line to the hillside

26:21

and then that line goes here

26:23

like you could never ever ever

26:25

ever design a building if that's

26:27

your approach to to to architecture.

26:30

And I think that's what I

26:32

like about it too, is that

26:34

this is a, the epitome of

26:36

an example of a highly rationalized

26:38

work of architecture that makes sense

26:40

and all the, and the relationships

26:42

again between its own components make

26:45

sense, but it's not the result

26:47

of someone nerding out by drawing

26:49

a bunch of lines, you know,

26:51

straight lines and plan. And I,

26:53

you know, like, this is weird.

26:55

You know, and then he has

26:57

this big column that comes down

27:00

and sits inside of a, I

27:02

don't even know what that is,

27:04

like a big half cup kind

27:06

of thing. You know, it's just,

27:08

it's weird. It's very, very, very

27:10

strange. It's very strange. It's very

27:13

strange. But I think that's why

27:15

I like it. Okay, I'll give

27:17

it to you. I mean, it's

27:19

pretty unique. It also has, I

27:21

think a lot of the elements

27:23

that I've. It has a really

27:25

strong clarity of the relationship of

27:28

the pieces, you know, and that

27:30

tends to be something that I

27:32

am more drawn toward, rather than

27:34

architecture that kind of blobs over

27:36

stuff, like there's this. for a

27:38

period of time, blob of texture.

27:40

And there's, I think also when

27:43

computers started being heavily used in

27:45

architectural design, everyone is using nerves,

27:47

nerves and herbs and curves and

27:49

burbs to like mirth everything together.

27:51

And it was all splines and

27:53

blinds and whatever. And it's like,

27:56

and that has some value for

27:58

sure, but for me personally, I'm

28:00

like, okay, well, I don't know.

28:02

I kind of like. the celebration

28:04

of the friction and contrast and

28:06

harmony between elements rather than it

28:08

being all blah blah blah that's

28:11

my architecture and I've never vibed

28:13

with that I don't see a

28:15

whole lot of intrigue or interest

28:17

in it I think it's more

28:19

interesting to have space between things

28:21

to have distinction between things and

28:23

Corbuzia does a really really good

28:26

job as those other architects as

28:28

you other architects of that And

28:30

if there's tension between the

28:32

components there's composition in the

28:35

facades There's what would appear

28:37

to be randomness There's

28:39

texture, there's floatingness, there's solidness,

28:42

there's gaps. There's about like

28:44

everything that would be interesting

28:46

to me in probably a

28:48

work of architecture is in

28:51

this building. So now, you

28:53

know, talking about out loud,

28:55

that's probably, I suppose, why,

28:57

why that's the case. Why I've chosen

28:59

this one. Well, it's interesting because I

29:01

feel like it's one of the few

29:04

buildings that feels like it was shaped

29:06

by somebody's hand in the way it

29:08

was designed rather than by their tools.

29:10

Right. Right. There's a primitive component

29:12

to it, too. Yeah, there's a

29:15

very primitive component. There is kind

29:17

of like imperfection and awkwardness. You

29:19

know, like, again, the curves are

29:22

not perfect curves. They're just kind

29:24

of like organically made that

29:26

they're not necessarily... precise or

29:28

over calculated. It's a weird

29:30

collage of things, which it

29:33

just feels more like an

29:35

experiment, you know, like a modeling

29:37

experiment rather than like

29:40

a calculated piece. It

29:42

also feels, yeah, I mean, that's

29:44

a good point, that it feels

29:46

like it was made by hand.

29:48

It really reminds me of that

29:50

clay thing. It just reminds me

29:53

of like somebody taking a block of

29:55

dirt and like... you know, shaping it

29:57

with their hands. That's what this building...

30:00

reminds me. I think also to

30:02

be honest maybe and maybe this

30:04

is a stretch but I think

30:06

now we are so sometimes it

30:08

feels like we are controlled or

30:10

directed or restrained or you know

30:12

whatever by the tools we have.

30:14

computers, keyboards and mice, and VR

30:16

even, and like all this stuff,

30:18

all these peripheral things, that they

30:20

just, they get in the way,

30:22

and they're great tools, and they

30:24

make construction documents a lot easier,

30:26

they make producing renderings a lot

30:28

easier, and you know, all that

30:30

stuff, but they just, sometimes I

30:32

feel like they're just like, it's

30:34

a bunch of string around my

30:37

hands, I'm like, just get away,

30:39

and... That's where I know we

30:41

still drop by hand and sketch

30:43

by hand and sometimes do tiny

30:45

cardboard model things. But that's why

30:47

maybe my house were like this.

30:49

It just feels like someone sat

30:51

down, which which was it did

30:53

and drew it without a computer,

30:55

which he did, and they dreamt

30:57

up of some ideas, and they

30:59

were not, they were not restrained

31:01

to any kind of, you know.

31:03

typical modern formal rigidity or rigidity

31:05

and then they produce this and

31:07

that's what it is and then

31:09

they did the sculpture and then

31:12

they stop and that's that there

31:14

there it is it's done and

31:16

I think that aspect to the

31:18

design process is becoming more and

31:20

more a difficult wavelength to tap

31:22

into because of all the peripherals

31:24

and the things we have to

31:26

deal with in the tech and

31:28

then the email and then whatever.

31:30

All right so that was Brittany

31:32

number one. We have two more

31:34

to go through so what's the

31:36

second one? Oh yeah what is

31:38

the second one? Okay sticking with

31:40

France but doing a pretty significant

31:42

pivot. Again biased for France because

31:44

I've been there a lot not

31:47

because other places don't have great

31:49

architecture. I'm sure if I... travel

31:51

to other countries more often I

31:53

would probably pick other other buildings.

31:55

Gonna go the different route, I'm

31:57

gonna say the Eiffel Tower. I

31:59

was gonna say, are you gonna

32:01

say the Eiffel Tower? I'm gonna

32:03

say the Eiffel Tower. Yeah. That's

32:05

very rude to laugh at me

32:07

because it's a bit, it's probably

32:09

a lot of people's favorite building,

32:11

you know what I mean? It's

32:13

very unique. I'm siding with the

32:15

people. Okay, okay. I don't think

32:17

any architecture has it? One of

32:19

their favorite buildings. And this is

32:22

the casual list to be fair,

32:24

right? Okay. Yeah. I mean, is

32:26

it even a, I guess is

32:28

it even a building that wants

32:30

to ask? Oh, bong cajon, Marina.

32:32

Tell us, Pray tell, what is

32:34

a building? Well, your favorite building

32:36

is a monument. which I guess

32:38

a building could be a monument,

32:40

but is this a building if

32:42

it's not enclosed and I don't

32:44

know what else would define a

32:46

building? You know, like, I mean,

32:48

there is a floor that's enclosed,

32:50

it has a restaurant, so I

32:52

guess it counts as a building.

32:54

It is a good question, like,

32:57

is it a structure? Is it

32:59

a building? Are they both the

33:01

same thing? I mean, who knows,

33:03

right? I mean, again, to like

33:05

the layman or the non-architect, it

33:07

tends to be when a structure

33:09

becomes of a... Well, I don't

33:11

know. Because the arctatrium, you can

33:13

also occupy, but most people wouldn't

33:15

think of that as a building.

33:17

They think of that as they

33:19

would label it as a monument.

33:21

The whole tower would be labeled

33:23

probably as both. If you asked

33:25

like 100 people, they'd probably 50-50,

33:27

say, you know, one or the

33:29

other, I feel. I would say

33:32

people say it's a mine, a

33:34

building. Yeah. Well, I'm gonna, that's

33:36

still one of my, is my

33:38

second choice. Okay, what is it

33:40

about it that you like? It's

33:42

all the little screws and things.

33:44

Yeah. It has actually less to

33:46

do with the structure. or like

33:48

the decorative aspects of the aesthetics

33:50

of the structure, right? The little

33:52

decorative pieces at the arches at

33:54

the bottom and whatever else. It

33:56

probably has to do with the

33:58

impact it has when you're experiencing

34:00

the city of Paris and it's

34:02

this kind of ever-present element. I

34:04

think... You're a very sentimental person

34:07

with these two buildings. You're a

34:09

very sentimental person of these two

34:11

parties. I'm part French, that's why.

34:13

I'm trying to recall, the first

34:15

time I saw this building, it

34:17

was also in the same trip

34:19

when I saw it wrong shop,

34:21

and maybe it has to do

34:23

with the trip. Maybe that was

34:25

the thing that left to Mark

34:27

can be more than anything else.

34:29

But there was an article written

34:31

about, I think it was about

34:33

structuralism, but it was about the

34:35

Eiffel Tower by Roland Bart. B-A-R-T-H-E-S.

34:37

I can never pronounce the last

34:39

name, so I stopped driving. Yeah,

34:42

hoh-huh. So, and I can't remember

34:44

if I read the article before

34:46

I saw the tower or after,

34:48

I think it was after, it

34:50

was after. And the article just,

34:52

and I have to find it

34:54

somewhere, it just, it captured the

34:56

subconscious, you know, thoughts I had

34:58

and feelings about the Eiffel Tower

35:00

and why I felt it was

35:02

so interesting, but he wrote it.

35:04

Like, I didn't have to, the

35:06

things I was trying to figure

35:08

out, like, why is it there?

35:10

I don't have this, this itch

35:12

or this, this feeling, what is

35:14

that, what have never found the

35:17

words to describe it, then he

35:19

wrote it. And once I put

35:21

those two together, and I'm gonna

35:23

do a really, really poor, um,

35:25

you know, kind of key point

35:27

takeaway of that because I read

35:29

the article like 20 years ago,

35:31

not 20, yeah, I don't know,

35:33

15 years ago, whatever it was.

35:35

It, it, it, it, it, it,

35:37

it, it, it, it, it, it,

35:39

it, talks about

35:41

the fact that

35:43

it is ever -present

35:45

as a monument

35:47

in the city.

35:49

So it becomes

35:52

a landmark from

35:54

what you use

35:56

to kind of

35:58

understand where you

36:00

are in proximity

36:02

to it and

36:04

in proximity to

36:06

other things, which

36:08

I always find

36:10

super interesting because

36:12

my other half

36:14

my heart beyond

36:16

architecture goes toward

36:18

urban design and

36:20

urbanism. It's

36:22

also the fact... He also talks

36:24

about the fact that it's

36:26

an open structure, literally an open

36:29

structure, and you can see

36:31

through it. And he, I think,

36:33

puts forward the idea that

36:35

because it's an open structure, it

36:37

allows people to have a

36:39

stronger affinity toward it because they

36:41

can visualize themselves in it.

36:43

I think he meant not just

36:45

physically, but also kind of

36:47

emotionally or phenomenologically. And

36:49

there's something about the openness that

36:51

begs it to be engaged with

36:53

in that level. And that's why,

36:55

I don't remember correctly again, he

36:57

believes that that's partially why it's

36:59

a structure that people love. It's

37:01

not just because it's the only

37:03

one in Paris, aside from that

37:05

horrible, horrible high rise that faces,

37:07

I mean, it's the only other

37:10

tall one. It's like kind of

37:12

dark gray. If you're in the

37:14

Eiffel Tower, you look down toward

37:16

one of the big streets or

37:18

avenues or whatever, and you see

37:20

that big building. A black one?

37:22

Yeah, a big rectangular black one

37:24

that they were going to reskin.

37:27

No, no, no, no, no, no,

37:29

it's a modern building. I

37:33

don't know what you're talking

37:35

about. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I

37:37

bet if I look through

37:39

my pictures that I took from

37:41

the top, there it is.

37:43

That's Montparnasse, Tour Montparnasse. The tower?

37:45

Well, it's disgusting. I don't

37:48

know who allowed this big black

37:50

rectangle that has nothing it.

37:52

Well, it's not love by many

37:54

people in Paris. So

37:56

I don't know why I

37:58

brought that up. But so

38:00

I guess, you know... So my

38:03

point was that it's not love just because it's the

38:05

only one of the only buildings right and it's tall

38:07

because there is a building that's tall and there's nothing

38:09

else around it no one likes that

38:11

building and if you do then your

38:13

opinion doesn't matter about life in general

38:15

you've got it all wrong I'm sorry

38:17

if you like that building you know take a

38:19

look at yourself. So it has to

38:21

do with its shape of course the

38:24

fact that it. plants and has a

38:26

connection to the ground and then points

38:28

upward to the sky and all that

38:30

kind of stuff. But it's its

38:32

openness that that that causes

38:34

people to be kind of

38:37

enamored with it in according

38:39

to his article if I

38:41

remember correctly. Well that's very

38:43

interesting. And it also points

38:46

out that it's the only you

38:48

know the only place in Paris

38:50

you can be without looking at the

38:52

tower. is in the tower. Of course. Smarty

38:55

pants, of course, of course, of course.

38:57

Well, we all know these things. It's

38:59

like, if you're inside your own body,

39:01

you can look at, you can look

39:03

at yourself. I think that's a, he might

39:05

have actually drawn that analogy as

39:07

well, maybe not. But I thought,

39:09

I think that's a very

39:11

interesting observation. Like the camera,

39:14

I cannot look at the camera. Yeah, we

39:16

as an audience understand that

39:18

you understand these things. If

39:20

you've known these things for

39:22

much longer than we have

39:24

innately, we get it. Your

39:26

intelligence is noted. I know.

39:28

If you have another more

39:30

evidence, though, feel free to

39:32

give it. The plans cannot look

39:35

at the plan. That's why I

39:37

put googly eyes on it. So anyway,

39:39

so I think all that just makes

39:41

it a very, very unique. Kind

39:44

of phenomenon you know pair with

39:46

the fact that again Paris is

39:48

mostly flat, and there's nothing else

39:51

tall around it. It's just And

39:53

I don't know I think I mean I'll

39:55

do like the effort tower. I wouldn't be

39:57

one of my favorite I know know that

39:59

but I do find its shape

40:01

and maybe it's because it's a,

40:04

maybe it's the symbol, I just,

40:06

I found it comforting. Confirting, that's

40:08

another good word. For some reason.

40:10

Yeah. Despite the fact, it's not

40:12

like you feel safe, but you

40:15

kind of feel like, I don't

40:17

know, like, reassured or something, which

40:19

is a strange thing, because I'm

40:21

not even from Paris, like, I

40:23

don't, and the effort tower is

40:26

a place of tourist, so it's

40:28

kind of a weird thing that

40:30

it falls that it falls that

40:32

way, but, but, It's kind of

40:34

like a, I don't know, it's

40:37

because the symbol kind of like

40:39

reminds you of the place and

40:41

therefore that's enough to feel comforting.

40:43

You know, it somewhat in a

40:45

way embodies what Paris is without

40:48

really showing it. As a symbol.

40:50

Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely that's the

40:52

other thing too that that starts

40:54

to really distort reality. When we

40:56

talk about famous buildings, when they

40:59

take on a certain meaning in

41:01

architecture or in broader society like

41:03

the Eiffel Tower does, you know,

41:05

it's almost like being able to

41:07

critique and understand the building for

41:10

what it physically is, you know,

41:12

and it's most truthful lens. is

41:14

almost impossible to do because of

41:16

the symbolic nature of it and

41:18

the meaning that has been projected

41:21

that we have projected onto the

41:23

building. And I do think it's

41:25

a two-way relationship, so there are

41:27

probably two, and I'm sure. Mr.

41:29

Bart would agree, Mr. Bart, I

41:32

don't know how to say his

41:34

last name, would agree that it's

41:36

a two-way street, so like Bart,

41:38

Bart, that the tower itself is

41:40

asking for some of that kind

41:43

of relationship in the way it

41:45

is physically, but when we project

41:47

so much meeting onto a structure,

41:49

it becomes really difficult to... like,

41:51

understand it objectively. And maybe we

41:54

don't have to, you know, at

41:56

that point. It's, it's, it's, it's,

41:58

it's, it's, maybe that's also why

42:00

it's intriguing because it's, it's, it's

42:02

one of the structures that's now,

42:05

it's crossed over into different territory.

42:07

It's not just a building that's,

42:09

that's, that's, that's all the right.

42:11

I don't know. It's significant and

42:13

it does all these things, but

42:16

despite it hardly having any program

42:18

at all. But it's interesting because

42:20

actually you pick this building too,

42:22

which is, David, which again, it's

42:24

not a building, it's a sculpture.

42:27

You again pick a sculpture. Yeah,

42:29

like the buildings, you're picking, are

42:31

not standard buildings. They're like monuments

42:33

in scripture. What the hell, man?

42:35

That's cheating. No, it's not. The

42:38

comprehensive chapel is a chapel. You

42:40

go there to pray. Yeah, but

42:42

it's a sculpture. It's not, it's

42:44

not really a... Well then, tell

42:46

us the difference between a sculpture

42:49

and a building. But what's interesting,

42:51

what's interesting with the effort tower,

42:53

actually is that first of all...

42:55

happy accident that it ended up

42:57

staying when it should have been

43:00

taken away and became this huge

43:02

thing right which the story itself

43:04

is really fascinating but also if

43:06

you look at just the shape

43:08

of it and the design how

43:11

the heck did Mr. Ethel come

43:13

up with that idea? Gustav you

43:15

know what's up Gustav like what

43:17

how You know like who would

43:20

have thought making the arches and

43:22

having a little you know the

43:24

bridge at the middle and another

43:26

like I mean I don't know

43:28

like so look at the details

43:31

it's nuts like that I mean

43:33

oh so that doesn't make any

43:35

sense what would you put so

43:37

much detail into it something that's

43:39

supposed to be temporary like another

43:42

one of those guys to like

43:44

shoot for the moon when he

43:46

was just supposed to like you

43:48

know lift himself up three feet

43:50

up in the air like what

43:53

the hell shame on you life

43:55

well you put too much work

43:57

into your town yeah I think

43:59

the I remember reading a fact

44:01

or like the number of rivets

44:04

in the Eiffel Tower is something

44:06

I don't forget what it is

44:08

it's extremely high number yeah it's

44:10

a weird one because it is

44:12

mostly pure structure Mostly, not entirely,

44:15

but mostly, but mostly. But I

44:17

don't think it provides anything. I

44:19

don't even think it's an antenna

44:21

for a pair of sorts, so.

44:23

I think so. No, it's just

44:26

a true. But no, what I

44:28

meant by structure, I mean like

44:30

structural components, like structural members, embracing

44:32

and beams, and there's not really,

44:34

well, members is what we call

44:37

them. You know, and there are

44:39

decorative elements, you know, you don't

44:41

need to have the little. Like

44:43

the arches at the bottom of

44:45

the Eiffel Tower, if I'm not

44:48

mistaken, are completely decorative. They serve

44:50

no structural purpose at all. And

44:52

there's a bunch of other little

44:54

things here and there that are

44:56

decorative. But, I don't know, it's

44:59

a weird one too, because it

45:01

looks very different depending on how

45:03

close you are to it and

45:05

the light also. From a distance

45:07

it has elegance, from close when

45:10

you're going through the elevators, it

45:12

is like you're going through scaffolding.

45:14

You know what I mean? And

45:16

when you get up close you

45:18

realize that it's brown, which I've

45:21

seen it so enough times now

45:23

and thought about enough times, where

45:25

I know that it's brown, but

45:27

I think prior to seeing it,

45:29

it's usually painted, I feel like

45:32

it's always presented, huh? Silver. I

45:34

was gonna say, I feel like

45:36

it's a redish color, or maybe.

45:38

You're thinking about the Golden Gate

45:40

Bridge, maybe. But I remember when

45:43

I remember when I first saw

45:45

the Eiffel Tower, I was like

45:47

I did not expected to be

45:49

like basic mud brown. which is

45:51

kind of the color that it

45:54

is. So it's a very, I

45:56

don't know, it's a very very

45:58

intriguing structure. And I... It's

46:00

weird. It's like having, for me, going

46:03

throughout Paris, you know, you're on the

46:05

metro and you're going mostly underground, it's

46:07

sometimes above ground, and then you're, you

46:09

know, flying through the city, there's trees

46:12

going by, there's buildings going by, and

46:14

then further than this distance you see

46:16

buildings go by at a slower pace.

46:18

And then every now and then between

46:20

the gaps, you know, of the buildings

46:23

you see the Eiffel Tower go by.

46:25

And it's kind of like having a

46:27

big friendly friend that's like there. And

46:29

when you turn the corner, like there

46:32

it is. It's like, oh, there's a

46:34

full tower. It's kind of nice. What's

46:36

interesting is that you're at a cafe.

46:38

It's like, where's the tower? It's not

46:40

there. Then you go to another cafe.

46:43

Oh, there's a tower. Cool. Let's sit

46:45

here and look at the tower. Well,

46:47

what's interesting too is that you can

46:49

actually use that as a guide so

46:52

you know where you are in the

46:54

city measures. And this is like maybe

46:56

the more touristy side of things. There's

46:58

like photographs and things people do because

47:00

other people have done them, which is

47:03

shallow. But there's also I think people

47:05

do them because there is something there

47:07

about it feeling good. And when you

47:09

are in Paris and you're at a

47:12

cafe or restaurant or wherever and you're

47:14

parked outside, would you prefer to have

47:16

generally speaking a view of the Eiffel

47:18

Tower or view without the Eiffel Tower

47:20

and just see a sky? I think

47:23

most people will be like, yeah, I'd

47:25

like to see the tower, like why

47:27

not? Especially if you're not from Paris.

47:29

And I feel like even if I

47:32

lived in Paris, I'd be like that.

47:34

Yeah, sure. It's this. Well, I mean,

47:36

it's all what, you know, I lived

47:38

in Paris for four years. You know,

47:40

if you can, if you can spy

47:43

the effort tower, it's kind of like,

47:45

oh, I can see the top of

47:47

it. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, I'd like,

47:49

I'd like, I'd like, like, like, like,

47:53

It also, the distance from oneself

47:55

into the tower distorts our sense

47:57

of distance. Oh yeah, yeah. You

47:59

know what I mean? Like, when

48:01

you see it, you feel close.

48:04

Not, I don't mean close to

48:06

it, yes, but you feel close

48:08

to Paris, I don't know, you

48:10

feel close, right? There's a familiarity

48:12

kind of, like I said, there's

48:15

a friend that's nearby. So yeah,

48:17

I, I was hesitant to name

48:19

this is my second one, but,

48:21

but, but, yeah. I would take

48:23

it, it's not really a building,

48:26

but we're, well, we're taking it.

48:28

What's the difference between you and

48:30

your mind? I don't. That's not

48:32

the point of this recording. Yeah,

48:34

that'll be the next recording, which

48:36

you would be. Because listeners, they

48:39

want to know. What's your definition?

48:41

I think there's a lot of

48:43

ways you could be defined. So

48:45

what I'm wondering. That's not an

48:47

answer. What's the difference between you

48:50

and your mind? I mean, a

48:52

monument is something that is symbolic.

48:54

It's a symbol of something to

48:56

more than one person. And oftentimes

48:58

in an urban setting. Okay, that

49:01

would be my definition of a

49:03

monument. It represents something, you know,

49:05

that resonates with a lot of

49:07

people. Oh, okay. So it could

49:09

be a historical monument. It marks

49:12

something that happens in history. It

49:14

could be a religious monument that

49:16

means something to a specific group

49:18

of people. It could be... It

49:23

could be, you know, it was

49:25

part of an event and it's

49:27

dead and it became this giant

49:30

thing and it's a monument to

49:32

a building. I would say that

49:34

a building is a structure that

49:37

is serving a purpose. That would

49:39

also be the definition of a

49:41

monument. The purpose of a monument

49:43

is to be used for something.

49:46

But if the building is playing

49:48

devil's advocate here, if the building

49:50

is... does perform, but it doesn't

49:53

perform in maybe the most traditional

49:55

sense of, oh, there's a calf,

49:57

the building. is a cafe, you

50:00

know, it is a restaurant, or

50:02

the building is a school, or

50:04

it's a library, or a house,

50:06

but it does serve the purpose

50:09

of the things that we've described

50:11

that the Eiffel Tower does, which

50:13

is purposeful. I mean, those are

50:16

things we've talked about, its relationship

50:18

to the city has meaning and

50:20

purpose, maybe? is the same word

50:23

as building something. So one could

50:25

say that any structure being erected

50:27

is therefore a building because you

50:29

built it. Right? Yeah, maybe. Actually,

50:32

it's the same in French, you

50:34

know, Batier and Batiman. It's the

50:36

same route, right? So one could

50:39

say that an open, you know,

50:41

a cube made of concrete with

50:43

a punched opening that has nothing

50:46

in it is a building, because

50:48

you built it. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

50:50

yeah. I mean, it's a fine

50:53

line. So here. It's a squiggly

50:55

line. And a building could be

50:57

a monument too. The one doesn't

50:59

say that the other one, you

51:02

know, mean that they're not compatible.

51:04

So here you go. And now

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the IPX link in our show

52:32

notes and learn more. I'm trying

52:34

to guess, based on this first

52:36

two, what would be your third

52:38

favorite building? Yeah. Now I would

52:41

ask for a clue. Is it

52:43

in Europe? Well I'll answer the

52:45

clue once I've decided with my

52:48

third one. I'm reviewing my list.

52:50

I have two. I have two.

52:52

I have two. They're splitting. Neither

52:55

warm or really my third, but

52:57

they're close enough so that I'll

52:59

share the podium together in third

53:02

spot. Okay. Is one of them

53:04

in Europe? No. Oh, so are

53:06

they both in the United States?

53:08

No. What, where have you been?

53:11

I know I've been to a

53:13

lot of places, but unless I

53:15

photograph them, and unless I've photographed

53:18

them, and unless and my, you

53:20

know, I'd like tens of thousands

53:22

of iPhone photos like everyone else,

53:25

unless I photograph that thing like

53:27

many, many, many times, it doesn't

53:29

occupy enough space in the, you

53:31

know, the grid of iPhone photos,

53:34

so I go across it. So

53:36

I need to. But so those

53:38

are buildings you've been to? Yeah,

53:41

I don't think I could choose

53:43

a building. Okay. Gaudy, which I

53:45

felt maybe would have been your

53:48

third one, like the cigarette of

53:50

Amelia, if we stay in the

53:52

terms of like... Sculpture kind of

53:54

weird structure thing. I think there

53:57

would have been one I would

53:59

okay. Yeah, go ahead But it's

54:01

not there. So that's not I'll

54:04

quickly say I would never ever

54:06

choose that building as my one

54:08

of my favorites. Okay The Other

54:11

ones I would have imagined we've

54:13

been in New York or California,

54:15

but they're not in the states.

54:18

So that eliminates that wait what

54:20

I Okay, let's try and guess

54:22

the one that's suddenly in the

54:24

United States that eliminates, I think,

54:27

the proof of possibilities, because you

54:29

haven't gone many places. So that

54:31

leaves us necessarily true, but okay

54:34

fine. You went to Canada, but

54:36

you were too small and you

54:38

were not in architecture then so

54:41

I was saying I was too

54:43

small to go to Canada. Like

54:45

it didn't fit inside of Canada?

54:47

No, but you were too small

54:50

to know about architecture when you

54:52

went. And yeah, I'm not thinking

54:54

about Canada. You went to Mexico,

54:57

but same thing. You were too

54:59

young. That's impossible. I don't need

55:01

this. We went to China and

55:04

I don't know that the buildings

55:06

you've seen in China would count

55:08

as your favorite. I would say

55:11

maybe the bird's nest would have

55:13

been one of them but I'm

55:15

not sure that it really was

55:17

your thing besides just being an

55:20

impressive structure so I would say

55:22

no to that. I would say

55:24

the one that's abroad is probably

55:27

in Japan. I

55:29

always mix up the letters of

55:31

that the name of that tower,

55:33

but the capsule tower that was

55:35

taken out I don't know what

55:37

is official name or the nah

55:39

Yeah, something like that. I keep

55:41

mixing the letters somewhat and become

55:43

dyslexic with this building That could

55:45

have been one because I don't

55:47

think you know the names of

55:49

The other ones we went to

55:51

did we go in Japan to

55:53

see any? I'm looking at the

55:55

image right now so you can

55:58

cheat and look at the things.

56:00

Also idea did Just, just, okay.

56:02

Name your guess. What's your, what's

56:04

your two guesses? Come on, we

56:06

gotta move on with this here.

56:08

Did we see any data window

56:10

thing? Yes. Oh, we didn't. Oh,

56:12

we didn't. Oh, I did a

56:14

museum thing. So it's probably, it's

56:16

probably one of those. Okay. That's

56:18

my guess for the one that's

56:20

abroad. Okay. And the one that

56:22

is in the US. I don't

56:24

think you would pick me's. You

56:26

might pick Franklin, but I don't

56:29

even know if it's in the

56:31

United States. Oh, yeah crown hall.

56:33

A Mese in the United States?

56:35

Yeah, Chicago has a ton of

56:37

Mese. I'm so I'm blanking right

56:39

now. Well, what am I saying?

56:41

There's far as worth, but I

56:43

wouldn't choose that. No, there's crown

56:45

hall. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But

56:47

I don't think you would pick

56:49

Mese, but I don't even know

56:51

if yes, it would be your.

56:53

Because pick probably falling water would

56:55

be big pick than that. So

56:57

maybe falling water. This has started

56:59

to just marinas. Like brainstorming. Okay.

57:02

But you also like to weak

57:04

on and I think the only

57:06

one you really being to might

57:08

have been the salt. Okay. So

57:10

after 15 minutes of marina sharing

57:12

your brain thinking. Did I guess

57:14

any of that? Well, what were

57:16

your guesses? Well, either for water

57:18

and the salt institute for the

57:20

ones in the United States. You're

57:22

looking at the list? No, I'm

57:24

not. I can't see. I can't

57:26

see. And one of Tadawendo in

57:28

Japan that we might have seen,

57:30

which I would not recall. So,

57:32

I don't know, I guess your

57:35

part, right? I lost track of

57:37

all the 15 billions you named.

57:39

God. I'm supposed to be the

57:41

one doing most of the talking

57:43

in this recording, so I'm trying

57:45

to do my job here. Okay,

57:47

good. With their thought process on

57:49

how to guess what someone else

57:51

is thinking. The other thing I

57:53

guess for the Japan one is

57:55

it might not even be a

57:57

building, since you've picked sculptures and

57:59

monuments. you to pick a building

58:01

you might just pick a neighborhood

58:03

or something weird. No it's three

58:06

favorite buildings and I think it's

58:08

a strong argument to say that

58:10

the Eiffel Tower is in fact

58:12

a building. No I'm joking. So

58:14

what is it? The two that

58:16

I were going to share the

58:18

third place podium and most of

58:20

the buildings you listed were on

58:22

were on my short list. The

58:24

two that we're going to share

58:26

the spot were Talias in West

58:28

and the Birds Nest Building. Completely

58:30

different. I chose the bird dust

58:32

because it's like just wacko and

58:34

different. Oh, really? Oh, I'm disappointed.

58:36

Cool. The Stargada Familia, it's not

58:39

my, I appreciate it and all

58:41

that stuff, it's not my, it's

58:43

not my cup of tea. I

58:45

don't, I don't, I don't care

58:47

for it. I don't care for

58:49

it. It's like all right. I

58:51

understand the thinking behind it. I

58:53

think his, God, his work is.

58:56

impressive because it's unique and because

58:58

it is what it is, but

59:00

it's not my thing. Tadaa on

59:02

the projects we saw in Japan,

59:04

and I don't even know the

59:06

names of them. I know. That's

59:08

why I wouldn't be able to

59:10

name. Oh, right, right. Well, we

59:12

saw one of his houses, which

59:14

is the concrete flat. front, which

59:16

we traveled to Osaka to see

59:18

it, and we got there and

59:20

we realized that's a private house,

59:22

obviously we knew that, but we

59:24

didn't think about that. And the

59:26

front is just literally a concrete

59:28

wall with one opening for a

59:31

door and... So we got there

59:33

we stared at this rather old

59:35

concrete facade that's just a concrete

59:37

wall that's very narrow and not

59:39

very tall and we were there

59:41

for all of 10 seconds and

59:43

then we left realizing that was

59:45

completely pointless because there's nothing to

59:47

experience because it's a concrete wall.

59:49

I could just go to any

59:51

concrete wall and stare at that

59:53

and have the same experience as

59:55

seeing that that project. We saw

59:57

an outdoor output images in the

59:59

YouTube, an outdoor gallery space that

1:00:01

was really really cool I really

1:00:03

enjoyed that and we also saw

1:00:05

what's the other project the one

1:00:07

that that has like the murals

1:00:10

and the water features and stuff

1:00:12

it was just in cute okay

1:00:14

and then we saw this thing

1:00:16

which I don't remember what it

1:00:18

was which was also it was

1:00:20

next to a big mall Yeah,

1:00:22

this was impressive but not not

1:00:24

an art gallery. I like his

1:00:26

work. I think to be honest

1:00:28

if I were to design Something

1:00:30

with no You know input from

1:00:32

clients and whatnot there would be

1:00:34

similarities between his work and what

1:00:36

I would I have say I'm

1:00:38

not trying to compare what I

1:00:40

do to about on to I'm

1:00:42

not doing that, but there were

1:00:44

similarities in same veins and and

1:00:46

similar appreciation for certain types of

1:00:49

architecture. I think But no, I

1:00:51

wouldn't choose either of those three.

1:00:53

And to be honest, even if

1:00:55

I saw some of his more,

1:00:57

you know, his more famous work,

1:00:59

an iconic and larger and complex

1:01:01

work, I don't think I would

1:01:03

choose that my favorite either. This

1:01:05

is gonna sound, this may be

1:01:07

really crazy. I think I probably

1:01:09

wouldn't choose it because... It's something

1:01:11

that I would seek to try

1:01:13

and do and something I think

1:01:15

that I could get close to

1:01:17

doing. Again, I'm not trying to

1:01:19

say that I could do what

1:01:21

he does. No, not at all.

1:01:23

But you know what I mean?

1:01:25

I think things that are like

1:01:27

a bit more like make me

1:01:30

question. Yeah. Or things you would

1:01:32

never do yourself. Yeah, or like

1:01:34

you would. or I wouldn't have

1:01:36

dreamt of unless I saw it,

1:01:38

right? Like on those work, I

1:01:40

would have dreamt of where I

1:01:42

was saying on those work, for

1:01:44

whatever reason. But like Bruce H.

1:01:46

Chapel, I would have not dreamt

1:01:48

of the Ramsham Chapel had I

1:01:50

not seen that chapel. The same

1:01:52

thing with the Eiffold Tower, so

1:01:54

that's probably it. And so nothing

1:01:56

to do with, you know, the

1:01:58

quality of the work at all.

1:02:00

So, but anyway, so Talias. West,

1:02:02

we did a whole recording about

1:02:04

the trip to the southwest, which

1:02:06

we can put a link to

1:02:09

in this recording, I suppose. And

1:02:11

I talk about that. We talk

1:02:13

about that place plenty. For me,

1:02:15

it's, you know, you could name

1:02:17

a bunch of Frank Lloyd Wright's

1:02:19

projects, and I would probably like

1:02:21

them almost equally as much, but

1:02:23

Talius and West, I thought, was

1:02:25

just intriguing because the architecture itself,

1:02:27

and there's an informalness to how

1:02:29

it was done. You know, and

1:02:31

again. going back to the point

1:02:33

I made earlier about Corbusier's Chapel,

1:02:35

it wasn't an hyper, excuse me,

1:02:37

it didn't feel like the entire

1:02:39

place, didn't feel like a hyper

1:02:41

hyper rationalized thing that was designed

1:02:43

and thought out to the nth

1:02:45

degree a thousand times over in

1:02:48

a computer CAD, a drawing where

1:02:50

everything aligns to the quarter inch

1:02:52

to the 16th of an inch

1:02:54

and then built exactly that way.

1:02:56

It was much more about I

1:02:59

don't know man, like embracing the

1:03:01

place, being out there and then

1:03:03

putting buildings where it felt right

1:03:06

because you're there. And it just

1:03:08

feels more natural and just more

1:03:10

at ease and more, I don't

1:03:12

know, primitive and just like, let's

1:03:14

see, that's the other word, like

1:03:16

primitive is the word, you know,

1:03:18

like humankind is building stuff. That's

1:03:20

what it feels like. And I

1:03:22

appreciate and the narrative of the

1:03:24

place too and and and the

1:03:26

fact that there wasn't even enclosures

1:03:29

right like the windows that are

1:03:31

there didn't exist for I don't

1:03:33

know how many like like I

1:03:35

think a decade or something strange

1:03:37

it was just open so the

1:03:39

desert dirt and dust would just

1:03:41

blow through the inside of the

1:03:43

building. You would have never survived

1:03:45

space. Yeah like it's just well

1:03:47

there's no not a lot of

1:03:50

flowers out there. No, but dust,

1:03:52

I don't, geez, think about me.

1:03:54

Yeah, but, you know, dry dust

1:03:56

that doesn't have polona I am

1:03:58

okay with. More okay with. have

1:04:00

allergies right now apparently. And again

1:04:02

like the tectonics which is the

1:04:04

relationship between you know elements and

1:04:06

how they connect and things like

1:04:08

that was rough and it was

1:04:10

sort of playful and it made

1:04:13

sense and it's not something that

1:04:15

you some of the details I'm

1:04:17

thinking about I have to scroll

1:04:19

to the to the picture but

1:04:21

I think one part of the

1:04:23

structure there was like a stone

1:04:25

low stone wall and there was

1:04:27

like wood beams that came down

1:04:29

at an angle and the beams

1:04:31

had some kind of decorative elements

1:04:34

so then they attached they came

1:04:36

down and around and attached to

1:04:38

the side of the stone and

1:04:40

it really kind of like haphazard

1:04:42

sloppy not good construction detail manner

1:04:44

I mean but like it works

1:04:46

they were building this space so

1:04:48

again another experimental buildings but even

1:04:50

this space you know I mean

1:04:52

just look at this space right

1:04:54

Like, just look at this photograph

1:04:57

and this space. Try to dissect

1:04:59

and understand all the things that

1:05:01

are happening. Try to draw it,

1:05:03

the alignment, the misalignment, the materiality,

1:05:05

the play of light, the furniture,

1:05:07

the rugs, which he designed, everything.

1:05:09

This is like a highly highly

1:05:11

complex, small, very comfortable, intriguing little

1:05:13

space. You know what I mean?

1:05:15

Yeah. That's probably also why I

1:05:17

don't know if I could ever

1:05:20

really choose any structure that is

1:05:22

hyper minimal as a favorite building

1:05:24

because I think the raw talent

1:05:26

in this case and the skill

1:05:28

and the effort that it takes

1:05:30

to reduce something like this and

1:05:32

also the impact it has is

1:05:34

just and it's another it's like

1:05:36

way beyond way way beyond a

1:05:38

lot of the contemporary modern architecture

1:05:41

which is just you know simplistic.

1:05:43

It's just simplistic. It's a glowing

1:05:45

glass cube in the green landscape.

1:05:47

because it's channel glass. Super cool.

1:05:49

Okay, it's a glowing glass cube

1:05:51

though, man, like, I don't know,

1:05:53

right? Ten points, whoever can guess

1:05:55

what project I'm thinking about. And

1:05:57

I actually like that project a

1:05:59

lot, but it's, but then you

1:06:01

look at this, it's like, but

1:06:04

this is like, I get another

1:06:06

level. Yeah, especially when you ask

1:06:08

people to build a piece of

1:06:10

glass around a vase. And you're

1:06:12

like, okay, we're going to have

1:06:14

a window, but there's going to

1:06:16

be a face right in the

1:06:18

middle of the window. Yeah. But

1:06:20

see, that's the type, that's what

1:06:22

I'm saying though. I think so

1:06:24

much of the architecture now, like

1:06:27

proper architecture, and also just buildings

1:06:29

that are built, they're based on

1:06:31

these preconceptions of what a window

1:06:33

is and can and should be.

1:06:35

And you look at that. That's

1:06:37

not what people think about when

1:06:39

they think of a glass facade

1:06:41

in the window. They don't think

1:06:43

about a, again, listeners have to

1:06:45

look at this, but it's a,

1:06:48

it's a, it's a whole, it's

1:06:50

an entire glass wall. it's not

1:06:52

very big but it's a glass

1:06:54

wall and then you have two

1:06:56

I can't tell if there are

1:06:58

millions or frames that go down

1:07:00

that form like a square and

1:07:02

there's a square within that and

1:07:04

that square at the bottom the

1:07:06

sill instead of being a sill

1:07:08

is a ledge like a piece

1:07:11

of plywood or something that's painted

1:07:13

brown and there's a little vase

1:07:15

that sits on it and there's

1:07:17

some other kind of mowins that

1:07:19

come off of that that that

1:07:21

square like it's super weird like

1:07:23

it's super weird minimal modern contemporary

1:07:25

architecture works standard. And I think

1:07:27

that's probably why I would choose

1:07:29

this and a lot of his

1:07:32

work is as like my favorites

1:07:34

is because it's not something that

1:07:36

you would just first think of.

1:07:38

You wouldn't default to that, right?

1:07:40

It's not a default. But I

1:07:42

think you know, like when I

1:07:44

was saying that Rochand, the Chapardier,

1:07:46

was felt like it was like...

1:07:48

Crafted with somebody's hands. It's the

1:07:50

same thing with you know the

1:07:52

work of Franklin Wright like I

1:07:55

feel like it is about craftsmanship

1:07:57

To making a building and everything

1:07:59

that the building needs Right? Like

1:08:01

it was people working with their

1:08:03

hands, like stone being carved and

1:08:05

little details made out of pieces

1:08:07

of wood assembled together and cutting

1:08:09

a glass of shape around the

1:08:11

shape of a vase and those

1:08:13

things. And I think, I mean,

1:08:15

we've lost that like the craftsmanship

1:08:18

doesn't exist in architecture anymore. It

1:08:20

feels like to me. It's computer

1:08:22

ship. You know? You know? I

1:08:24

really do think that there's a

1:08:26

couple of reasons for that. One.

1:08:28

is that it's hard to do

1:08:30

this regardless of what error you

1:08:32

exist in time. Of course. Two,

1:08:34

I really do mean it when

1:08:36

the computers and all these peripherals

1:08:39

as I was calling with these

1:08:41

devices, there's only so many minutes

1:08:43

in a day, right? And if

1:08:45

you have to spend X percentage

1:08:47

of your time... now dedicated toward

1:08:49

troubleshooting stuff or working around with

1:08:51

these complex tools or learning these

1:08:53

tools, it's time away from being

1:08:55

able to think freely. And then

1:08:57

with the remaining time you have,

1:08:59

after you go through all the

1:09:02

clicking and the menus and this

1:09:04

and that, do you feel like

1:09:06

emotionally as an architect that's a

1:09:08

creative person? Ah, okay, let me

1:09:10

be really free and think about

1:09:12

crazy stuff. Or do you feel

1:09:14

like, okay, I only have half

1:09:16

of my day now, I need

1:09:18

to complete some stuff, right? And

1:09:20

so that's one reason. I think

1:09:22

the other reason too is that

1:09:25

building construction technology has advanced so

1:09:27

much and we have much higher

1:09:29

standards for creating not just safes

1:09:31

but but in buildings that perform

1:09:33

environmentally and in their energy use

1:09:35

right making them water and airtight

1:09:37

like ultra-tight the level of advancement

1:09:39

and the technology of like window

1:09:41

systems now is like light years

1:09:43

beyond what this is. They're not

1:09:46

even the same thing. And to

1:09:48

do that now is complex. So

1:09:50

there tends to be for budget

1:09:52

reasons and for the time and

1:09:54

complexity reasons of construction and designing

1:09:56

and detailing coordination, like defaulting to,

1:09:58

let's not do really weird Windows.

1:10:00

have really weird angle joints and

1:10:02

all this stuff because 99.99%

1:10:04

of the projects, even the

1:10:07

ones that have architects, don't

1:10:09

have the budget for that. And

1:10:11

then even if we do, how

1:10:13

many architects are going to feel

1:10:16

like they have the right fee

1:10:18

to do that and the headspace

1:10:20

to do that. Knowing that like

1:10:22

this would be so difficult to

1:10:24

do now to meet today's

1:10:26

standards of water and

1:10:29

airproofing. Yeah, I know, I know. I know.

1:10:31

It's, it's, it's, it's kind of annoying. And

1:10:33

I wonder, I mean, well, the other

1:10:35

thing here is that he was the

1:10:37

client, which also gives him a lot

1:10:40

of freedom in terms of... Yeah, I

1:10:42

need free labor. Schedule, labor, this

1:10:44

was a school, so people were

1:10:46

learning in building things, but also

1:10:49

the time, like, you know, you

1:10:51

need time to experiment, but did

1:10:53

a model, they did a prototypes

1:10:55

and try things out, and... when

1:10:57

you're in office and you have projects

1:11:00

you have to do and clients who

1:11:02

are you know waiting to be able

1:11:04

to move into their new house and

1:11:06

paying for two houses at the same

1:11:09

time and waiting to sell and this

1:11:11

and that time is extremely

1:11:13

limited you know it is the

1:11:15

experimentation aspect to architecture like you

1:11:18

said is a huge one and

1:11:20

there just needs to be more

1:11:22

of it but experimentation is is

1:11:25

costly yeah Right? And it's just,

1:11:27

that's why I've said before, you

1:11:29

know, there's, I think it's changing a

1:11:31

little bit now, but I think, you

1:11:33

know, the last 15, 20 years, whatever

1:11:36

years, probably since the 2000s,

1:11:38

as a society, we were

1:11:40

just moving more and more toward

1:11:42

this concern with efficiency, hyper

1:11:44

efficiency, more efficient, more efficient,

1:11:47

more efficient. And I think,

1:11:49

and I feel like in

1:11:51

the last maybe five years

1:11:54

or so, now we are.

1:11:56

starting to pivot to questions

1:11:58

about creativity and less questions

1:12:00

about being just hyper efficient. I still

1:12:02

think the negatives of seeking efficiency as

1:12:05

an end goal exists and it kind

1:12:07

of is still pervasive, but maybe a

1:12:09

bit less so. But I think inventiveness

1:12:12

or experimentation is like the antithesis of,

1:12:14

you know, efficiency in a lot of

1:12:16

ways. I just realized that this is,

1:12:19

and I thought it was a fireplace,

1:12:21

but there is a bunch of plants

1:12:23

coming out of it, so. This was

1:12:25

not meant to be a fire place.

1:12:28

Fireplace is over. So this is just

1:12:30

a planter? I just realized that. Tell

1:12:32

it's kind of dark. Oops. So now

1:12:35

can we talk about the bird's nest?

1:12:37

Like I don't really understand what this

1:12:39

is part of your list. Well that's

1:12:41

why I share in the podium with

1:12:44

the teles. It could be the teles

1:12:46

and west is occupying like two-thirds of

1:12:48

the podium, and the bird's has like

1:12:51

one foot on the podium, and it's

1:12:53

about to fall off the fall off

1:12:55

the podium. Again, I'm biased

1:12:58

for things that I've seen or

1:13:00

things that I've studied. And I

1:13:02

studied it in school. And I-

1:13:04

Oh, you did? Yeah, yeah, I've

1:13:06

studied it in school. And some

1:13:08

quick factoids. Oh, my group classmates

1:13:10

probably remember the fact, but I

1:13:12

think there's like 22,000 tons of

1:13:14

steel in the bird's nests. That's

1:13:16

why it's still is so expensive.

1:13:18

It's all in the bird's nest.

1:13:21

I have to deconstruct it so

1:13:23

we can get more steel. Yeah,

1:13:25

we had to do you know

1:13:27

an architectural analysis, but also structural

1:13:29

because it's you know, it's about

1:13:31

that Herzog and de Mira on

1:13:33

I think as an office are

1:13:35

Consist the most consistent architecture office

1:13:37

in producing Architecture architecture architecture like

1:13:39

proper architecture I wish I had

1:13:41

I wish that I had seen

1:13:43

more of their work to date.

1:13:46

I haven't but I saw that

1:13:48

one And, you know, after starting

1:13:50

in school and then seeing it

1:13:52

also, you know, there's a lead

1:13:54

up to it because you've started.

1:13:56

it. Chose it because it's a

1:13:58

ridiculous structure. It's massive. It's a

1:14:00

massive, it's a massive, massive, massive

1:14:02

structure. The stadium holds like 90,000

1:14:04

people as a big stadium. And

1:14:06

I also think in terms of

1:14:09

stadium design it is pretty fascinating.

1:14:11

What I like about it too

1:14:13

is that that is an example

1:14:15

of them actually dissecting what a

1:14:17

stadium is and trying to propose

1:14:19

something that is different. Rather than

1:14:21

being most stadiums which are just

1:14:23

you... Shove a bunch of program

1:14:25

all around the perimeter. You put

1:14:27

a bunch of billboards and neon

1:14:29

signs or you know LED signs

1:14:32

and it becomes just like amusement

1:14:34

like Frank Frankenstein amusement park, you

1:14:36

know hub and that this this

1:14:38

thing that's like this sucked toward

1:14:40

all of the things you find

1:14:42

in Disneyland that have been sucked

1:14:44

toward the state of now. It's

1:14:46

this like fucking gross Frankenstein catastrophe.

1:14:48

It's like garbage pile of like

1:14:50

consumerism is what most stadiums are.

1:14:52

It's like not a bad description

1:14:54

of what was there. That's what

1:14:57

they are. The Bird's Nest was

1:14:59

not that. And I appreciated it

1:15:01

for that. And I think the

1:15:03

design was interesting. The proposal was

1:15:05

interesting. I think they paired partnered

1:15:07

with Iowa Way Way, the artist

1:15:09

too. So I think this sculpture

1:15:11

was based on obviously the Bird's

1:15:13

Nest. And rather, the building was

1:15:15

based on a bird's. And I

1:15:17

think it was based on some

1:15:20

sculptures who did something. And that's

1:15:22

pretty much it also. I think

1:15:24

as a spectacle from the outside,

1:15:26

it does exactly what it was

1:15:28

trying to do. It didn't fall

1:15:30

short, right? As a, as a,

1:15:32

like sometimes you see photographs of

1:15:34

buildings, you see them personally, like

1:15:36

yeah, there's someone, someone hired a

1:15:38

really good photographer. and they chose

1:15:40

the exact right angle, which is

1:15:42

the case with most buildings that

1:15:45

are published and most houses that

1:15:47

are published. I think people would

1:15:49

be very, very surprised if you

1:15:51

wouldn't saw those spaces, houses in

1:15:53

our case, the outside and the

1:15:55

inside of those houses, in real

1:15:57

life, you would not feel as

1:15:59

strongly about them as you do

1:16:01

in those photographs. Those photographs are

1:16:03

lies. Yeah. like their lies. But

1:16:05

the bird's nest is exactly what

1:16:08

it is, and at night it

1:16:10

glows and looks beautiful, during the

1:16:12

day it's this, a foggy day,

1:16:14

and some of the times that

1:16:16

I saw it, it's this mysterious,

1:16:18

massive gray thing that feels just

1:16:20

appropriate. And then also interestingly, the

1:16:22

way that the pattern of the

1:16:24

nest portion was done is that

1:16:26

there were, I think, 12. big

1:16:28

trusses that span the going across.

1:16:30

So 24 points around the donut

1:16:33

and then 12 trusses that are

1:16:35

hidden because you can't tell because

1:16:37

of the way they did the

1:16:39

pattern of the, I guess you

1:16:41

call it the facade. And it's

1:16:43

also to me, an example of

1:16:45

a pure expression of what it

1:16:47

was trying to be, right? There

1:16:49

wasn't a lot of like, it

1:16:51

doesn't, when you go to the

1:16:53

ability, you don't feel like they

1:16:56

had to maybe sacrifice. a bit

1:16:58

here and a bit there because

1:17:00

of whatever reasons. It kind of

1:17:02

did exactly what they signed out.

1:17:04

The only thing that did occur

1:17:06

in terms of a gap between

1:17:08

maybe the conceptual design of the

1:17:10

architecture and what it is in

1:17:12

the minds of the architect versus

1:17:14

its execution that I could tell.

1:17:16

is that when you get to

1:17:19

the top of the bird's nest,

1:17:21

the welds between the steel panels

1:17:23

become extremely rough. I think it's

1:17:25

because they ran out of time

1:17:27

or money or something, because all

1:17:29

of the welds and the seams

1:17:31

on the first like half, bought

1:17:33

lower half of the structure, are

1:17:35

perfect. You know, because that's what

1:17:37

you want. They're meant to be

1:17:39

not panels. They're meant to be

1:17:41

like single, big steel, two things.

1:17:44

And they're perfect and they're lower

1:17:46

levels. pretty rough. But that's like

1:17:48

the only thing, you know. So,

1:17:50

so yeah, and then I would

1:17:52

also say in terms of the

1:17:54

performance of it as a stadium,

1:17:56

despite me liking it and it

1:17:58

being different because it's like open,

1:18:00

you know, the idea was that

1:18:02

it's open, you can kind of...

1:18:04

of circulate through the perimeter of

1:18:07

it. That doesn't work for stadium,

1:18:09

because you need to have gates

1:18:11

for tickets and security control. So

1:18:13

they had to build the typical

1:18:15

white, kind of crappy temporary gates

1:18:17

and turnstiles around. the building as

1:18:19

an actual security checkpoint, which you

1:18:21

could say is a flaw in

1:18:23

the design of the building, or

1:18:25

it could say, well, maybe not.

1:18:27

It's a similar idea to having

1:18:29

a parking structure at the gateway

1:18:32

of the city, so you have

1:18:34

to park your car, then you

1:18:36

have to walk through the city,

1:18:38

like who we can propose for,

1:18:40

I think it was Philadelphia, too.

1:18:42

I would not have expected that.

1:18:44

But it's just a ridiculous structure.

1:18:46

But I've been there. It's impressive

1:18:48

by its scale. But I wouldn't

1:18:50

say that would be one of

1:18:52

my favorite. It didn't move me

1:18:55

in any way besides, oh shit.

1:18:57

Yeah. Well, to me, again, it's

1:18:59

an example of like a pretty

1:19:01

simple diagram, a pretty simple design.

1:19:03

Yeah. And then just made reality.

1:19:05

But the. is a whole lot

1:19:07

of work to make it this

1:19:09

massive massive thing. Can you make

1:19:11

that sound again? Building, yeah. If

1:19:13

only it was that easy to

1:19:15

create things. I'll list the other

1:19:18

ones around my, name the other

1:19:20

ones around my list. I had

1:19:22

the Salk Institute, I had the

1:19:24

Unite, the Fiermani Chapel by Kabru,

1:19:26

which I kind of maybe like

1:19:28

equally as a wrong shop in

1:19:30

fact. And I also wrote down

1:19:32

the Capital Tower. And then the

1:19:34

Pantheon. Again, heavily by store friends.

1:19:36

The Pantheon. Oh, that's so interesting.

1:19:38

Yeah. I mean, those buildings I

1:19:40

like, but I wouldn't say that.

1:19:43

There's a bunch of other buildings,

1:19:45

too, that I mean, there's a

1:19:47

lot of good buildings. Yeah, there's

1:19:49

a lot of good buildings. There's

1:19:51

another building that I like, which

1:19:53

I'll name, because it just, I

1:19:55

don't know, it makes me giggle.

1:19:57

Is the Boston City Hall. which

1:20:00

is not well received as maybe

1:20:02

not liked by a lot of

1:20:04

people. I think it was going

1:20:06

to be torn down or has

1:20:08

been, which is kind of a

1:20:10

bummer. But yeah, just the, you

1:20:12

know, brutalist structures. And that's my

1:20:15

dream. Yeah, there's also that Paul

1:20:17

Rudolph house apartment building. Oh, it

1:20:19

was so stuffy in there though.

1:20:21

Well, there was also like 35

1:20:23

of us in there. I don't

1:20:25

know. Yeah. I mean, it was,

1:20:27

it was interesting. Actually, visiting that

1:20:29

house in New York, it felt

1:20:31

like I was inside somebody's carbon

1:20:33

model. You know, white, white model.

1:20:35

Yep. Which was cool, which was

1:20:38

cool. But it felt a little

1:20:40

too close to a fabric, I

1:20:42

don't know. Yeah, it was a

1:20:44

lot of us in it. Yeah.

1:20:46

That's how many people. Yeah. and

1:20:48

sweat, winter sweat. Yeah, it sounds

1:20:50

like winter sweat, winter coats and

1:20:52

sweat. It definitely did smell like

1:20:54

that. You know, I think it

1:20:56

was a Friday, too, end of

1:20:59

week. Yeah, it was. Everybody needs

1:21:01

a bath. It was a little

1:21:03

greasy. All right, so yeah, those

1:21:05

are the three. Anything else to

1:21:07

say? And then wrap this thing

1:21:09

up. No, so you're a threes,

1:21:11

if you want to summarize it.

1:21:13

What was my second one? The

1:21:15

Eiffel Tower? The Eiffel Tower and

1:21:17

then Talliassen West and the Birds'

1:21:19

Nets. I feel like that's a

1:21:22

pretty decent mix. I want to

1:21:24

choose, you know, buildings in a

1:21:26

more diverse set of places. But

1:21:28

it's just, I mean, there's a

1:21:30

lot of really cool architecture in

1:21:32

Japan. There wouldn't be a good

1:21:34

side of Japan who haven't seen

1:21:36

that has amazing things. So we

1:21:38

have to go back. Yeah, I

1:21:40

need to get out more. Some

1:21:44

really cool structures in the South, I

1:21:46

mean, yeah, I don't know. It's it's

1:21:48

it's an odd thing the favorite building

1:21:51

question because it's like Architects have a

1:21:53

hard time anyone who is a Connoisseur

1:21:55

or an expert or you know a

1:21:57

passion about X thing They're gonna have

1:22:00

a tough time choosing their Oh yeah.

1:22:02

What's your favorite movie, if you're asked

1:22:04

a director and be like, you know,

1:22:06

get out of here. But I think

1:22:09

it becomes not even about quality, it

1:22:11

becomes about other things. It is probably

1:22:13

more telling about the person than it

1:22:15

is about the structure itself. Yeah, and

1:22:18

I think also like maybe if you've

1:22:20

traveled a lot, you will have a

1:22:22

lot more. references and I think the

1:22:24

ones that maybe resonate or like, you

1:22:27

know, shocked you the most in a

1:22:29

meaningful way would be the ones that

1:22:31

are favorite. You know, I think also

1:22:33

it's hard when you've studied buildings in

1:22:36

school because you already kind of know

1:22:38

them. It's not the first time, you

1:22:40

know, meeting them. So sometimes it might

1:22:42

be more about a smaller building that's

1:22:45

unknown to most people. That's actually become

1:22:47

your favorite. I think we had a

1:22:49

few guests who actually had a smaller

1:22:51

structure that they run into during a

1:22:54

trip somewhere and that's kind of became

1:22:56

a structure that they cherish more than

1:22:58

you know the big ones that are

1:23:00

produced. Yeah, of course, of course. All

1:23:03

right, well, that's cool. All right, give

1:23:05

us an outro. Thank you everybody for

1:23:07

listening to this show. If you like

1:23:09

what we do, please, please, please, diverse

1:23:12

or review on Apple, iTunes, Spotify, YouTube,

1:23:14

where most podcasts, we are on most

1:23:16

podcast platforms. You can also find us

1:23:18

on social media. Facebook and Instagram is

1:23:21

the way you can find us. Second

1:23:23

Studio Pad. We have the website where

1:23:25

all of the episodes are listed and

1:23:27

there is a bit more information on

1:23:30

there as well. And if you have

1:23:32

any favorite buildings we don't know about,

1:23:34

then maybe we haven't heard of. Feel

1:23:36

free to text us. Give us a

1:23:39

voicemail. The hotline is 2-1-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2 And that's

1:23:41

it. We have more coming up. It's

1:23:43

only the beginning of the year. So

1:23:45

please stay tuned. Share, pass around the

1:23:48

podcast. And see you soon. Yes, yes,

1:23:50

yes. I want to list one more.

1:23:52

It's the Prada store by, I think

1:23:54

it was by RICOOS. Oh, Martha. No,

1:23:57

not Martha. In Japan. Do you remember

1:23:59

the building? The product one

1:24:01

with the owning? are they Was

1:24:03

that No, no, no, no. Oh, the it's the one with

1:24:05

the one with the bubble glass

1:24:07

facade Who did did that? No, room cool house

1:24:09

at it. The it. The one I'm

1:24:12

just running. yeah, yeah, yeah,

1:24:14

yeah, yeah. Yeah. it's the Prada Yeah.

1:24:16

Yeah. Let me pull it up

1:24:18

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's the prod store. Let me pull it

1:24:20

up real real real. I have nothing

1:24:22

to say about it because we

1:24:24

had to wrap this up, say

1:24:27

about is also one of my

1:24:29

favorites. better Yeah. I will say

1:24:31

the I like the store better with the better with I like

1:24:33

that one too. This I like that one too. I I

1:24:35

like that better than this one. was building about when

1:24:37

when I was in school, I and it in

1:24:39

a lot about when was in school, okay, I

1:24:41

was in school, I was like, basic I mean,

1:24:43

it's a pretty basic when thing, but when you

1:24:45

see it in person, like, this is pretty, pretty, it's

1:24:47

pretty dope. So So anyway, that that one too. Let us

1:24:49

Let us know your three favorite buildings and

1:24:51

talk soon. Thanks, bye. soon, thanks, bye. Bye.