0:00

This is the second studio hosted by

0:02

the architecture and design office fame. My

0:04

name is David Lee and with me

0:06

is Marina Borderone. The two of us

0:08

are architects, partners at the office, and

0:10

of course hosts of the show. And

0:12

today is the two of us, and

0:14

we are going to be talking about

0:16

the rebuilding effort of the city of

0:18

Los Angeles. And some of the things

0:20

we're going to cover are broad enough

0:22

to be applied to any... rebuilding

0:24

process as a result of a

0:26

fire. And some of the things

0:28

we're talking about, specifically the permitting

0:31

approvals process and timelines, are specific

0:33

to the city of LA and

0:35

even more specifically to our knowledge

0:37

of the Pacific Palisades. And as

0:39

a quick overview, we're going to

0:41

talk about the cleanup of sites,

0:43

reusing foundations, good idea, or bad

0:45

idea, and again, the permitting, rebuilding

0:48

like-for-like, or rebuilding new, and all

0:50

the nuances, and why

0:52

building like-for-like is not as

0:54

much of an advantage as it would

0:56

seem to be. sponsors. This episode

0:58

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out more. This is the second studio

1:56

with myself and Marina. Here we go. So

1:58

it seems like the first thing, right? to get

2:00

rid of the debris that's on the

2:03

site. Yeah, so site cleanup is

2:05

happening in two phases. The first

2:07

phase is really to remove the

2:09

hazardous materials. And then the second

2:11

phase is the debris cleanup portion. And

2:14

in the first phase, the hazardous cleanup

2:16

is being handled by the EPA. And

2:18

then the second phase is done by

2:21

ACE, or the US Army Corps of

2:23

Engineers. The thing is, and FEMA is

2:25

the one I believe that's managing the

2:28

whole kind of operation, the thing is

2:30

for some of the properties in

2:32

the Palisades, they have been put on

2:34

a deferred list by FEMA, which sounds

2:36

maybe more alarming than it actually is.

2:38

What it means is that their site

2:41

will still be cleaned up by the

2:43

EPA, but just at a later time.

2:45

Is that because there is more toxic

2:47

waste there? It's because those sites

2:49

are more difficult to clean up.

2:51

probably because the amount of debris

2:54

makes it difficult to access the

2:56

site. And so the logic that's

2:58

being employed is that the EPA

3:00

can come in clean a lot of

3:02

sites that are easier to do quickly

3:04

and then tackle the more

3:06

difficult ones later on. So going

3:09

private is a potential benefit if

3:11

you have a property like we

3:13

know so people have properties that they

3:15

were put on the deferred list, they

3:18

don't want to wait. right, for several

3:20

reasons which we'll get into. So they've

3:22

chosen to go with a private contractor

3:25

to do the hazardous waste material, and

3:27

also in their case, the debris cleanup,

3:29

which would be categorized as phase two,

3:31

if you're using utilizing the government.

3:33

So the other question that for a lot

3:36

of folks are facing is whether or not

3:38

they should use ACE, the Army Corps of

3:40

Engineers, or go private. And there's sort of

3:42

this thought that if I use the Army

3:44

Corps of engineers, it's free. But it's not.

3:47

exactly the case because the Army

3:49

Corps of Engineers will still bill your

3:51

insurance for the amount of work it

3:53

took for them to do the work.

3:55

There are still some advantages in that

3:58

though. I believe that they don't bill

4:00

the insurance company until much

4:02

later. Other factors with the Army

4:04

Corps of Engineers is that you

4:06

know they're gonna come in and do

4:08

whatever they do. You don't have control

4:11

over what they're doing as much as

4:13

if you went private. So you have

4:15

like pieces of buildings or things that

4:17

you want to keep in your rebuild

4:19

project. Yes. They might not be

4:22

as mindful and detailed let's say because

4:24

they have a lot of sites to

4:26

clear. Exactly. If your property... it was

4:28

completely gone and you know that nothing

4:30

is worth keeping, then ACE might be

4:32

a good option if you can get

4:35

them to be scheduled, you know, in

4:37

time. If your property was, you know,

4:39

let's say half damaged or something

4:41

like that and you needed the

4:43

debris cleanup workers to be very

4:45

meticulous about what they're doing, ACE

4:47

is probably not the best route

4:50

for you. I have heard that in some

4:52

instances homeowners are sort of worked with

4:54

ACE to you know communicate what they

4:56

want to keep and not keep but

4:58

you know anyone in the time and

5:00

the ability to do that. Yeah anyone in the

5:02

you know and the knowledge construction industry

5:04

is probably like yeah I don't really

5:06

see how that's going to work out

5:09

so well but these are things that we've

5:11

heard. So isn't there a deadline to opt

5:13

into ACE using ACE though? Yeah so this

5:15

recording I think we're going to push to

5:17

get out. in time for it to

5:19

be useful, hopefully. But it's the

5:21

end of March. You have to

5:23

decide by then whether or not

5:25

you're using ACE. And what we're

5:27

advising everybody, and we've heard this

5:29

from many other professionals as well,

5:32

is for homeowners to opt in with

5:34

using ACE, because you can always opt out.

5:36

So if you opt in, and the next

5:38

couple weeks, you change your mind, you can

5:40

always opt out. But if you opt out,

5:42

you can opt out, you can opt out.

5:45

And so that's kind of the strategy that

5:47

a lot of people are doing because there's

5:49

a lot of information that is still being

5:51

learned on a you know 24-hour basis. And

5:53

so there's nothing hurting you to opt in.

5:56

So there is kind of like the

5:58

selection of who's removing the debris. But

6:00

I think in that, you also have to wonder

6:02

and ask the companies, like, if you go private,

6:04

where are they going to bring the debris to,

6:06

like, where is the dump site? Yeah. Because some

6:08

dump sites only take the debris coming from ACE.

6:10

You also don't really want to hire just like

6:12

three guys in a van to come and clean

6:14

up your life. No, but you know, I mean,

6:16

if you don't know better, right? A man in

6:18

a van for moving. Yeah. So that's kind of,

6:20

that's kind of, that's kind of, that's an

6:23

important. That's an important question.

6:25

That's an important question. It's an important

6:27

question. It's one of, with this many

6:29

houses being lost is it's an opportunity

6:32

for a lot of people to professionals

6:34

to swoop and get work which is

6:36

a good thing for the professionals if

6:39

they know what they're doing potentially

6:41

a bad thing if you have folks

6:43

who are just trying to make money

6:45

trying to take advantage of the situation

6:48

and we've heard that the the debris

6:50

removal process by those companies is becoming

6:52

less and less straightforward because there's

6:54

only so many roads to get

6:57

in like you said some of

6:59

the dump sites have changed their

7:01

minds. They're like, oh, by the

7:03

way, now we only take, you

7:05

know, debris from ACE, and so

7:07

you can't dump here. So you

7:09

really need to hire the, you

7:12

know, like you said, companies

7:14

that are good at what they

7:16

do, and they know what they're

7:19

doing, for sure. The other

7:21

thing, too, with debris cleanup

7:23

and the things that are

7:26

remaining are still there. Yeah,

7:28

and that's kind of a question that we've

7:30

seen come across quite a bit, because everybody

7:32

knows, right, that foundation costs a lot of

7:34

money to build. The first time you build

7:36

them. And it's kind of like a chunk

7:39

of money that just sits in the dirt

7:41

that you never see, right? So it's going

7:43

to like, well, if I can reuse what

7:45

I have, despite me having lost, you know,

7:47

everything, if I could save some money there,

7:49

like that would be good. So... you know it

7:51

would make sense for a homeowner to

7:54

wonder like can I just reuse the

7:56

foundation because it's concrete anyway right so

7:58

it's in the dirt it didn't burn

8:00

it's still there like is reusable. So

8:02

all the foundations let's assume for

8:04

all we're talking about all the

8:06

sites where the house has gotten

8:08

foundations are quote still there visually

8:11

all those foundations have to be

8:13

tested by a dedicated engineer and

8:15

that's your job is to test

8:17

the structural integrity of existing structures

8:19

like foundations they have to be

8:21

tested of course. The thing

8:23

and there's a couple ways they do testing

8:26

so there's a visual inspection which basically is

8:28

there's an expert that goes out there and

8:30

looks at the foundation and has draws an

8:32

opinion They do a hammer test which is

8:34

a device. It's not just a you know

8:37

a hammer use for deals as a specific

8:39

hammer device To do that and depending what

8:41

that that test reads then they go further

8:43

and do invasive testing where they actually core

8:45

mean they take out a chunk of the

8:48

foundation and then test it They also do

8:50

stress tests on the anchor bolt so they

8:52

pull up on the so anyone who doesn't

8:54

know their framing is tied down to

8:56

the foundation with anchor bolts let's say

8:59

and so they do a stress test

9:01

by basically pulling on the bolt to

9:03

see how much resistance there is and

9:05

so they do all these things kind

9:07

of in succession because you don't start

9:10

off by just drilling into the to

9:12

the foundation so they do all these

9:14

things the you know the problem is

9:16

that a lot of these houses were

9:18

built so long ago that even if

9:21

it's determined that the fuel foundations are

9:23

still structurally sound from when they were

9:25

first built, they were built

9:27

at a time when the

9:29

foundation structural requirements are different

9:31

from today. Right. So if you

9:33

have a house from like the 80s,

9:36

the 90s, or even certainly earlier than

9:38

that. It's not, you can't just reuse

9:40

the foundations, right? If you did, they'd

9:43

have to be brought up to code.

9:45

So there'd be retrofitting of it. I

9:47

think there'd be the addition of more

9:50

or new anchor bolts. I think the

9:52

bigger question though is, and I was

9:54

speaking with a couple engineers about this,

9:56

is if you are building ostensibly

9:59

a brand new house that's going to

10:01

cost millions of dollars and it's

10:03

three thousand four thousand five

10:05

thousand whatever how many square

10:08

feet should you be building it on

10:10

top of foundations from the 80s or

10:12

90s forget the fire aspect of it

10:14

and the answer is no you shouldn't

10:16

it's it's not a good idea to

10:18

do that right and for the houses

10:20

that have burned completely away

10:22

and there's only foundations

10:25

it's a good chance those foundations are

10:27

damaged to some degree Because

10:29

it's not like the fire just kind of

10:31

went by, that means the fire was cooking

10:34

the house for hours probably, and

10:36

in direct contact with those

10:38

concrete foundations. And I think even,

10:40

you know, even then during the debris

10:42

removal process, they might get damaged or,

10:45

you know, like you or so don't

10:47

know, some part of the patissades and

10:49

around also had like butt size and

10:51

all kinds of things. At the end of

10:53

the day, it's like, how much would you

10:55

be saving by trying to reuse them? And

10:57

if you have to bring them up to

11:00

code, what is the cost delta of doing

11:02

that versus just starting new? It's the cost

11:04

delta. And also, it's like, just again,

11:06

in principle, do you want to build

11:08

a brand new house that's going to

11:10

last, that's meant to last you for

11:12

the next 50 years of your life

11:14

on foundations from 30 years ago that

11:16

survived to fire? Like, it's not It's not

11:19

super logical, right? Well, the thing

11:21

is, you know, like you keep an

11:23

existing wall or like an existing roof,

11:25

like you could always access it, redo

11:27

it, change it, take it down. Foundation,

11:30

if you need to fix it in

11:32

five years, it's like a pain. It's really

11:34

complicated. The funny thing is,

11:36

you know, obviously everyone who lost their

11:39

houses, if they had insurance, are dealing

11:41

with insurance companies. And it could go

11:43

too, like playing the mind, mind reading

11:45

game of insurance companies, it could go

11:47

one of like two ways. Either they

11:49

want to test the foundations to say,

11:52

okay, they're still good, so we don't

11:54

have to pay for new foundations. I'm

11:56

an insurance company, now I don't have

11:58

to pay for new foundations. The other

12:00

mentality they could take I suppose is

12:02

I want to have new foundations

12:05

because that's less liability for

12:07

me as an insurance company

12:09

in the future. And the

12:11

way, again, the way that

12:13

construction has evolved and the

12:15

way we built things, both in practice

12:17

and also in the code, is just

12:20

so different than it was 30, 40,

12:22

50 years ago. So, you know, I

12:24

think we mentioned on a previous recording. Some

12:27

of this bleeds over into just

12:29

general remodel thinking forget forgetting the

12:31

fires, right? Like we've worked on

12:33

projects where houses were built to

12:35

the 50s, the mid-century, right? And

12:37

it's like, well, are we going

12:39

to do this massive, massive gut

12:41

remodel and build basically a brand

12:44

new house and keeping some studs on

12:46

top of an old foundation? We don't

12:48

know really what's in there. And at

12:50

some point when you get to that

12:52

threshold of scope and budget spending, Then

12:54

no, it doesn't make sense anymore. Now

12:57

it is true, of course, for some

12:59

people, they might be in a situation

13:01

where they have to, they have a

13:03

hard cap on their budget

13:05

or whatever other constraints, and

13:07

then you have to do

13:09

retrofitting, and I totally certainly

13:11

understand that. This conversation, part

13:14

of the conversation, would be completely different

13:16

though, if you had just built

13:18

a house, so the foundation is

13:20

now that we're... then talking about

13:22

our new ones. They're from this

13:24

last year, last two years, that's

13:26

different. Then you're more likely to

13:28

be able to reuse them if

13:30

they're not too damaged. Yeah, yeah. But

13:33

deciding to remove the foundation or keeping

13:35

the foundation is also something that you

13:37

have to take into consideration now before

13:39

debris removal happens because if you do

13:42

decide to get rid of them, then

13:44

that could be taking care of at

13:46

the same time. So, you know, it's

13:48

it, you kind of have to like.

13:51

not waste too much time especially if

13:53

you have to do testing if you're

13:55

unsure if you can keep it or not.

13:57

Yeah, yeah. The other advantage I would say

13:59

with foundation is that if you keep

14:01

the foundation you're going to be

14:04

tied to the footprint of what was

14:06

the house before right and that kind

14:08

of leads us to the next point

14:10

which is like do I rebuild exactly

14:13

what was there do I do something

14:15

slightly different or would I do something

14:17

completely different right yeah keeping existing foundation

14:19

is providing you with limitation of what

14:22

you can rebuild in some ways yeah

14:24

and on that note I'm sure folks

14:26

are wondering well can I change the

14:28

existing foundation The answer is it depends

14:30

on the foundation and the changes and

14:32

the changes so Generally the answer is

14:35

yes, you can to a degree You

14:37

know, I mean this is going back

14:39

to other remodel projects. We're doing now

14:42

You can pour a new slab

14:44

on top of an existing slab

14:46

you could carve out an existing

14:48

slab and replace with a new

14:50

one depending on how the rebar

14:52

inside of the slab was done,

14:54

but You're right, you're still working

14:56

with this existing thing. And again,

14:58

there's this threshold that we all

15:00

have to be mindful of if

15:02

you're doing a certain scale of

15:04

work. Why are we bothering to try and

15:07

limit ourselves or fight one arm tied

15:09

behind our back? You know, or trying

15:11

to run a race with, you know, one leg

15:13

is, you don't need to. And I think it's

15:15

about thinking about the bigger picture

15:17

and not getting, you know, not

15:19

becoming trapped into like those very

15:22

specific questions that come into play

15:24

right now in those first phases

15:26

of, you know, rebuild. The bigger

15:28

picture also depends on your goals as

15:30

a client and why you're deciding to

15:33

rebuild. Right. If you're rebuilding and you're

15:35

thinking, well, I'm going to rebuild and

15:37

bounce and get out of here in

15:39

the next few years, that's a different

15:41

set of criteria and goals for you. First

15:44

of all, I don't know anyone who's going

15:46

to go through that, this process of the

15:48

fire. So, most, I feel like a lot

15:50

of the people we've spoken with who are

15:52

rebuilding. It's because they want to stay

15:55

in the Palisades or they want to

15:57

stay in their neighborhood for personal

15:59

reasons. reasons for whatever other

16:01

reasons. And so if this

16:03

project you're undertaking is a

16:05

long-term, it's an investment, yes,

16:07

but it's a long-term, you know, thing for

16:09

yourself, then that's where it goes back

16:12

to the bigger picture. That's what I

16:14

would keep in mind and really think

16:16

about that more so than some of

16:18

these like nitty gritty that have been

16:20

coming up. I mean in some ways,

16:22

you know, like those homeowners are rebuilding

16:25

a part of their life. Let's just

16:27

put it that way. you know, that's

16:29

your life, like especially if you've been

16:31

living in those houses for quite some

16:33

time. So I think, yeah, thinking about

16:35

the bigger question in that case is

16:38

super important. You alluded to the

16:40

topic of adhering to the existing

16:42

foundations and kind of the pros

16:44

or cons of that from a

16:46

design standpoint. And this bleeds over

16:49

into the subject of how rebuilt

16:51

properties are permitted in the city

16:53

of Los Angeles. And so again,

16:55

this this aspect of the conversation

16:58

specific to the city of Los

17:00

Angeles, perhaps even more specific to

17:02

the palisades, let's say. So there's

17:04

a few things we want to clarify.

17:06

There's been this phrase called like for

17:09

like, rebuilding like for like that has

17:11

been used. It's been used to the

17:13

out there, right? And maybe actually even

17:16

in some of the official language from

17:18

the city. And So one way

17:20

of rebuilding of doing a

17:22

project is to rebuild like

17:25

for like. That's what people

17:27

say, but rebuild like for

17:29

like. Well, it's not an

17:31

accurate term because when anyone

17:33

here is like for like, what

17:35

do we think? We think that

17:37

we have to build a like

17:40

for like. We think that we

17:42

have to build a like for

17:44

like. We have to build a

17:46

porch back. Everything is like for

17:48

like. That is actually not what

17:50

it is per the permitting the

17:52

code and the regulations though.

17:54

And so I feel the

17:57

term like for like is

17:59

very deceptive. And I wonder, you

18:01

know, honestly, I wonder if it's been

18:03

done on purpose. So, I don't know,

18:05

so people just rebuild. Just to

18:08

make things go faster, yeah. Or,

18:10

or slower. I don't know, I don't know,

18:12

I feel like language and vocabulary

18:14

here could have been made

18:16

a bit more explicit for

18:19

people to very clearly understand

18:21

like what that means. Yeah, yeah,

18:23

no. So, I don't know. So there are

18:25

two ways you can go about. rebuilding

18:28

a site. There is an

18:30

eligible or qualifying rebuild. Those

18:33

two terms will be together

18:35

eligible or qualifying. And then

18:38

there's non-eligible and non-qualifying. Okay.

18:40

So eligible and qualifying means

18:42

that you're building something

18:45

that allows you to have certain

18:47

advantages because you're building something that's

18:49

roughly the same size as it

18:51

was before. And you're given exemptions.

18:53

So you are eligible for exemptions

18:56

from certain things because you're building

18:58

something back that's close to what

19:00

was there before. Not like for

19:02

like, but sort of close. If

19:04

you're building something that's not close

19:07

to what was there before, then

19:09

you are now in the category

19:11

of a non-eligible or non-qualifying project.

19:13

It simply means that you don't qualify

19:15

for these, for exemptions. Okay, then in

19:18

that case, you're basically doing a standard

19:20

project. It just happens to be there

19:22

for your house burned out, but you're

19:24

just doing a standard project and you

19:27

can do whatever you want that follows

19:29

the current, you know, zoning codes and

19:31

regulations. Gotcha. Would the non-eligible could

19:33

be a technically a remodel or would

19:35

they all be categorized as new

19:37

construction? Technically, so this, so that's a

19:39

super good question. And this is something I

19:42

don't think a lot of people are talking

19:44

about. It could be either. But let's get

19:46

into that and a little bit. So

19:48

let's first talk about the the eligible

19:51

projects and the qualifying projects. And these

19:53

are also in the same bucket as

19:55

the like for like. What like for

19:57

like actually means is that you were

20:00

building something that is within

20:02

110% of the area, height,

20:04

and location, and footprint of

20:06

what was there before. That means

20:09

to say that when you are

20:11

rebuilding your house you

20:13

can go bigger and change

20:15

its footprint and everything else

20:17

by an extra 10%. Okay.

20:19

If you stay within that

20:21

extra 10% then you are considered

20:23

an eligible rebuild and there's

20:26

a bunch of exemptions that

20:28

you you gain because of this

20:30

so that would impact your square footage

20:32

your height and bulk is the last

20:34

is the last one so So in

20:36

architectural terms we would refer to it

20:38

as the massing which massing means if

20:40

you can just imagine kind of big

20:42

blocks on site the rough shape of

20:44

the house right can't change beyond an

20:46

extra 10% and it's it's it's quantified

20:48

by again the square footage the height

20:50

of the building the number of stories

20:52

the bulk which means it's it's rough

20:54

shape and footprint have to be within

20:56

10% so what you can't do is

20:58

say okay if I had a house

21:00

that was 3, 3,000 square feet and I'm

21:03

going to build back now 3,000 300 square

21:05

feet, can I move my house to the other

21:07

side of the lot or make my house a

21:09

circle instead of a square? Let's say, no you

21:11

can't because a circle instead of a square

21:13

is radically different and it's not like a

21:16

10% shift from a square, right? If you

21:18

try to move your house from one corner

21:20

of the property all the way the

21:22

other, somehow you have that ability because

21:25

if it's a big enough lot, that's

21:27

also does not is not considered considered

21:29

an an eligible rebuild because you are

21:31

dramatically changing. the massing and the site

21:34

planning of the project. Can you underbuild,

21:36

like if you fit within the massing

21:38

of what was there before, but you

21:40

actually built less? You can underbuild, yeah.

21:43

And some people are doing that because of

21:45

cost. It's just so expensive to

21:47

build. It's not like you have to build

21:49

like up to 100% of what was there before,

21:51

like always go down if you need to. Yeah,

21:53

the rule is a bonus 10% to give you

21:56

some wiggle room. I do want to go back

21:58

though, though, and touch on the exemption. that

22:00

you mentioned? Yeah, so the exemptions

22:02

for an eligible project, which again

22:05

means you're not building more than

22:07

an extra 10%, are you are

22:09

exempt from SECWA, the Coastal Commissions

22:12

Act, and there's a third one,

22:15

which I'm forgetting right now, you're

22:17

exempt from, you're allowed to put

22:19

back any nonconforming structures. So I'm

22:22

going to talk about the first

22:24

two. Anyone in Southern California

22:26

or all of California knows

22:28

that if your property is

22:31

located in a coastal zone

22:33

and therefore you have to

22:35

undergo coastal commission reviews,

22:37

it is unpleasant to say the

22:40

least. So if your property is

22:42

in the coastal zone, rebuilding Mac

22:44

the house and not having to

22:47

go through that commission, the

22:49

coastal commission, is a huge,

22:51

huge benefit for sure. The

22:53

other one was non-conforming structures

22:55

Which means for example if your house

22:57

was built on a set on a

22:59

side yard setback That was like two feet

23:02

off of the property line where you're supposed

23:04

to have five That means you can rebuild

23:06

where it was Yeah, which in some ways

23:08

is a huge advantage because you can't

23:11

do that anymore Yeah, so that is

23:13

something to consider. I think there was

23:15

also things about like keeping a gas

23:17

line. Yeah, right? So obviously the code

23:20

evolves and the code now prohibits

23:22

certain things. Now gas is not

23:24

allowed. So when you do a

23:26

new construction project, there's an all

23:28

electric mandate. You can only use

23:30

electricity. You can have gas. So

23:32

that also... If you had gas

23:34

before, you can still have gas

23:36

now because you're doing a qualifying

23:39

rebuild and you're saying within that

23:41

extra 10%. The same thing applies

23:43

for heights and even the use

23:45

of the property. In this conversation,

23:47

or at least for what we do,

23:49

you know, we're talking about houses and houses,

23:51

so that's not so much of an issue. In

23:53

addition, you cannot add a basement and

23:56

have that not count toward their square

23:58

footage to be eligible. That

24:00

makes sense. So it's part of your, yeah,

24:02

it's part of your total square footage. Yeah,

24:04

which some of us don't quite agree

24:06

with because the whole point of the

24:08

110% rule is that you're building back

24:10

kind of roughly what was there from

24:12

a site planning perspective. From above ground.

24:14

From above ground perspective. So who cares

24:16

if I'm adding a basement? Like let

24:18

me add a basement and give me

24:20

the benefits of being an eligible rebuild.

24:22

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25:38

Now, here's the thing. The

25:40

eligible rebuild, quote, like-for-like, and

25:42

all those other ways of

25:44

describing it, has been talked about as

25:46

the fastest way to get an approval,

25:48

because it is expedited. Right. And

25:51

it's been kind of... I don't

25:53

know, marketed let's say, as

25:56

if you want to rebuild quickly,

25:58

do this. Stay with an... the 110%

26:00

do all the stuff that we

26:02

talked about and you're gonna have

26:05

the fastest approval process, you're gonna

26:07

get your permit and it's gonna

26:09

be the easiest thing in the

26:11

most painless way to go about

26:13

it. So my question is who's

26:15

like... saying those things are not

26:17

true. So here's why it's not

26:20

necessarily as advantageous as it seems.

26:22

So let's go through it. So

26:24

first of all, we talked about

26:26

exemptions from CEQA and the coastal

26:28

commissions. Right. Which is a huge

26:30

one because it's a huge time

26:32

and money in the process. However,

26:35

I don't know the math of

26:37

it, but like half or more

26:39

of the properties in the Pacific

26:41

Palisades are not in a coastal

26:43

zone anyway. So that has no

26:45

bearing on a lot of people.

26:47

At all, right? The... So I'm

26:50

saying your car comes with doors.

26:52

Okay, great. I mean... The exemptions

26:54

for nonconforming uses, right? Most houses

26:56

don't have extreme conditions where they're

26:58

built so far past the setbacks

27:00

where it's a huge issue. The

27:02

gas thing. Well, is it that

27:05

big of a deal to keep

27:07

gas or not? I don't know.

27:09

And in fact, here's a thing

27:11

that I don't think a lot

27:13

of people know is that even

27:15

if you do a non... eligible

27:17

non-qualifying qualifying project, you can actually

27:20

still have gas in the house

27:22

because it's a fire rebuild. Now

27:24

here's the caveat with that, is

27:26

that new energy codes would apply

27:28

to that project which make it

27:30

very difficult to have gas with

27:32

all the calks, which I know

27:35

I'm getting confusing. But I was

27:37

talking with the city official the

27:39

other day, like I was having

27:41

lunch with them. He's like, well,

27:43

you can still have gas in

27:45

a new construction project if it's

27:47

a fire rebuild because you're still

27:50

classified. under the bigger umbrella of

27:52

a fire rebuild. And then the

27:54

other big benefit that's being talked

27:56

about is this expedited approvals permitting

27:58

process if you do the like

28:00

for like eligible rebuild thing. Well,

28:02

what has been I think guaranteed

28:05

to date as far as I

28:07

know is that all that means

28:09

is that the first review of

28:11

the drawings you submit will be

28:13

done within 30 days, which is

28:15

good. That's much faster than, that's

28:17

faster than usual. Yeah. But it

28:20

does not talk about the subsequent

28:22

reviews that will take place after

28:24

that. So for anyone who doesn't

28:26

know anything about, you know, buildings

28:28

and permitting. So you submit your

28:30

permit drawing to the city, it

28:32

gets reviewed. In the city of

28:35

Los Angeles, San Francisco, a lot

28:37

of major cities, you can guarantee

28:39

you're going to have plan check

28:41

corrections, which means that there's a

28:43

plan checker who's going to put

28:45

a bunch of red lines and

28:48

say fix a bunch of stuff

28:50

and resubmit. That's just, it's going

28:52

to happen, right? So this expedited

28:54

process only talks about the first

28:56

review session. It doesn't say how

28:58

quickly they're going to review the

29:00

plan check corrections that you've submitted.

29:03

In addition, all projects that are

29:05

a fire rebuild, eligible and non-eligible,

29:07

will be expedited because there's a

29:09

dedicated team of officials for these

29:11

projects separate from everyone else. So

29:13

even if I'm doing a non-eligible

29:15

rebuild, okay, I'm still expedited. Right.

29:18

I've heard that in the end,

29:20

both will be about the same

29:22

timeline in terms of speed. I've

29:24

also heard that, well, the eligible

29:26

rebuilds will still have an edge

29:28

to them, but it's only like

29:30

a couple months of approval timeline,

29:33

which maybe for the layperson sounds

29:35

like, wow, a couple months, that's

29:37

saving me a lot of time.

29:39

It's nothing. Any professional you talk

29:41

to, the timeline we think about

29:43

is the entire project. An extra

29:45

couple months inside of the building

29:48

department. Planning Department is nothing. So

29:50

basically level playing ground in terms

29:52

of the the approvals timeline between

29:54

eligible and non-eligible. So coastal commissions

29:56

if If you're not in a

29:58

coastal zone, no impacts. Nonconforming uses,

30:00

probably not an issue. If you

30:03

had nonconforming uses or not uses

30:05

of structures, any good architect and

30:07

design within the constraints and make

30:09

something beautiful and amazing. And then

30:11

the whole, this is the fastest

30:13

way to get an approval. Maybe

30:15

not. Probably not, actually. And if

30:18

it is, it's by like, what,

30:20

a month or two months, which

30:22

is nothing. So I think this

30:24

is very critical because. with

30:26

the fires there's a tendency of

30:28

everyone to focus on like fire

30:30

specific information right which is important

30:32

and true but like don't let that

30:35

distract you from the bigger picture

30:37

that you have in mind and distract

30:39

you from these other options which are

30:41

going to be about the same

30:43

in terms of time and give you

30:46

massive flexibility to do whatever you

30:48

wanted. and not be adhered to the

30:50

previous footprint of the house. I think

30:52

or so like you know the

30:54

the permitting aspect being like much quicker

30:57

and whatever is appealing but if you

30:59

are rebuilding your forever house you

31:01

know the design process is going to

31:04

take some time yeah so it's

31:06

not like unless you already have your

31:08

set approved and or like you were

31:10

in the middle of you know

31:12

like working on your your permit set

31:15

or whatever like sure get it

31:17

out and try and try and you

31:19

know, get back on it as soon

31:21

as you can. But for most

31:23

people, I think they're going to start

31:26

from scratch because they're not planning

31:28

to really do their home. Their home

31:30

was there. You know, finding the right

31:32

architect, finding the right team to

31:34

like rebuild your house, thinking about how

31:37

you want to rebuild, and taking

31:39

the time to do it right. And

31:41

I cannot imagine there's so emotionally like

31:43

being in that headspace. I don't

31:45

think you want to rush. or feel

31:48

like you have to rush and

31:50

quickly move into rebuilding your house if

31:52

you have if you need the time

31:54

to to take the time to

31:56

decide how you want to approach that

31:59

you should you should you should take

32:01

it you know Yeah, so I

32:03

think for the average person who elects

32:05

to build a house, which a

32:07

lot of these people were not in

32:10

that situation, right? But the person who

32:12

elects to build a house, they

32:14

very severely underestimate the time effort. sometimes

32:16

stress and money and schedule, you

32:18

know, involved to create a house. And

32:21

that's just, that's just a fact. Again,

32:23

I'm saying this, talk to any

32:25

seasoned architect or contractor, they'll say like,

32:27

yes, people don't understand how complex

32:29

and how long it takes. And for

32:32

people who have been forced into this

32:34

situation, you are now one of

32:36

those people where you're, you're, you're, you're

32:39

now one of these, you're, you're,

32:41

you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're having

32:43

to having to build to build to

32:45

build a house, having to build

32:47

a house, having to build a house,

32:50

to build a house, to build a

32:52

house, pressure that comes from you

32:54

know the insurance company who's asking like

32:56

what are you doing you decide

32:58

what you want to be doing you

33:01

know maybe your neighbors you see your

33:03

neighbors are deciding what they're doing

33:05

and you know like it's yeah it's

33:07

a it's a personal journey to

33:09

get on on their own building a

33:12

home so I don't think you should

33:14

feel like all of those things

33:16

around you are pressuring you to move

33:18

quickly and and you know decide

33:20

A or B like right now. You

33:23

should have the time to get their

33:25

headspace to think about that. Look,

33:27

you know, if you're person listening and

33:29

you loved your house, like it

33:31

was perfect and you just wanted back

33:34

the way it was. Then just rebuild

33:36

it the way it was. I'm

33:38

not advising otherwise in that situation. But

33:40

let's be honest, for most people,

33:42

they're in a house and yes, they

33:45

are, they are, I'm sure, heartbroken because

33:47

they have fond memories of what

33:49

all the events and things that took

33:51

place that took place in it took

33:54

place in it. But the house

33:56

itself, they're probably like, man, I was

33:58

always thinking about doing this project,

34:00

this catcher remodel or this addition or

34:02

X, Y, and zero. There's this aspect

34:05

of the house I never cared

34:07

for. Well, silver lining, this is the

34:09

chance to do what you want

34:11

to do now, right? And I think

34:14

a lot of people, forget the whole

34:16

fire portion of the conference, a

34:18

lot of people just in general, are

34:20

living in houses that they're not

34:22

happy with, right? because they didn't design

34:25

this house. Especially there's a lot of

34:27

crappy houses and they end up

34:29

in these crappy houses that don't flow

34:31

well when they just don't feel

34:33

good and sometimes the homeowners they feel

34:36

it and other times they don't feel

34:38

it but there's like a lot

34:40

of room for improvement. So if you're

34:42

forced into situation of building a

34:44

new house then build it for the

34:47

long term and build it. in a

34:49

way that it should be and

34:51

have it designed in a way that

34:53

it should be and not just a

34:56

knee jerk reaction to put back

34:58

what was there. Yeah, I think on

35:00

that subject though, if people want

35:02

or need to, you know, have plans

35:04

of the house I was there before

35:07

because either they want to rebuild

35:09

exactly what was there before or they

35:11

do want to do like an

35:13

eligible project where they need to show.

35:15

what was there before? You know, like

35:18

where was the house located on

35:20

the site? How height was the, you

35:22

know, how many stories and what

35:24

was the building height? The setbacks and

35:26

all that stuff. Some people might not

35:29

have plans. Like they bought a

35:31

house and it didn't come with floor

35:33

plans, right? What you could do

35:35

is go to the city of LA

35:38

and ask for records of the property.

35:40

Yeah. Depending on when the house

35:42

was built. If there was an architect

35:44

or an engineer involved, if there was

35:47

drawings, they might have something on

35:49

record and you can get access to

35:51

these. Yeah, and I think Newsom

35:53

recently, recently, maybe it was a week

35:55

ago now, release day, and I don't

35:58

know what you call it, a

36:00

mandate, an ordinance, or whatever, stating that

36:02

those old records need to be

36:04

released immediately. Normally, when you go to

36:06

the city, the city has to then

36:09

contact. the owner of the drawings,

36:11

the architect or the engineer and get

36:13

their permission and then they forward

36:15

it to you. Right? Because it is

36:17

still, like, in some ways, the property

36:20

of those people. But in this

36:22

case, it's just being pushed through, which

36:24

makes sense. The city of LA

36:26

only started documenting via microfilm, I think

36:28

in 1990, or just right around there.

36:31

So if your house was built

36:33

before then? If you're right at that

36:35

cost, but like you're like the

36:37

late 80s, you might have slipped in

36:39

and been okay. But if you're way

36:42

before then, you're probably going to

36:44

have a hard time getting a set

36:46

of drawings. Which might also determine which

36:48

route you or you are going

36:50

to have to go to rebuild? Well,

36:53

there's been discussion about using drones

36:55

and Google Earth footage to kind of

36:57

informally document what was there. There hasn't

36:59

been any... True clarity and clear

37:01

and real answers from the city as

37:04

of whether or not they're going

37:06

to accept that kind of documentation I

37:08

suspect they will a lot of us

37:11

are suspecting that they will but

37:13

it remains to be seen You know

37:15

I also want to talk about

37:17

like The focus on permitting timelines and

37:19

permitting in general right so like taking

37:22

a step back again and just

37:24

talking about projects design architecture and construction

37:26

in general for houses There tends

37:28

to be a disproportionate amount of focus

37:30

by clients on permitting and how long

37:33

permitting takes. And that's more of

37:35

a general observation. General observation. There are

37:37

for sure nightmare stories and nightmare projects

37:39

and nightmare plan checkers where that

37:41

process takes forever, like years in really

37:44

bad cities and really specific situations.

37:46

Yes. And there are always delays in

37:48

that department. In that section of the

37:50

process of the project. However, I

37:52

will say from an architect's lens, and

37:55

the architect is the person that's

37:57

with you from the very beginning when

37:59

you first start thinking about doing a

38:01

house until you move in, right,

38:03

that entire timeline, that journey, permitting is

38:06

one blip within the timeline of

38:08

the entire project. The work it takes

38:10

to put permit drawings together is important.

38:12

It's small. Construction documents, big. Design

38:14

big permitting could potentially be a real

38:17

pain the butt, but oftentimes an

38:19

office in a lot of cases, we're

38:21

doing CDs during that time anyway. Construction

38:23

documents during that time anyway. So

38:25

my large report I'm trying to make

38:28

is that I wouldn't let especially

38:30

these specific permit information about eligible and

38:32

non-eligible dictate the rest of the project,

38:34

which is like 95% of the

38:36

project, like design. Hugely important construction documents

38:39

hugely important construction takes a long time

38:41

to I mean obviously and that's

38:43

where all the money's being spent like

38:46

that those other things are really

38:48

the bigger Consideration because again when we

38:50

zoom out You're building a new house

38:52

and it doesn't have to be

38:54

what was there before you know, you

38:57

know, and I think I just

38:59

think it's very easy for everyone to

39:01

zoom and just focus on like well

39:03

eligible non eligible 110 this that

39:05

this and that like but these are

39:08

small very small things in the

39:10

overall effort of the project and small

39:12

things that are potentially very critical. Like

39:14

you said, if you choose to

39:16

do eligible because it sounds like it's

39:19

the fastest, right, and whatever else,

39:21

but now you're stuck with a previous

39:23

footprint. Why? You know, and it's hard

39:25

for people who've never gone through

39:27

any of that before because they have

39:30

to make decisions, you know, without

39:32

really having all of the information. And

39:34

there is, that's why, and the problem

39:36

is that there is a lot

39:38

of information out there since the fire

39:41

happens. You know, here and there, you

39:43

hear this, you hear that, but

39:45

there is not, I think, clear information.

39:47

So it gets very confusing. Yeah.

39:49

Well, this is why, not to sound

39:52

like an. you know, advocate for architects

39:54

as a biased person because I'm

39:56

an architect, but that's why you need

39:58

an architect. You need to talk

40:00

to an architect because architects, what they

40:03

do for any project, especially with something

40:05

like this, is they bring in

40:07

all the information, they decide and they

40:09

decide and they order it. They

40:11

make an mental hierarchical outlay and decide

40:14

what's important not important to to shape

40:16

the project. For folks who are

40:18

looking at this process through a keyhole

40:21

and they don't know anything about

40:23

the profession what happens is whatever information

40:25

they hear it sounds bigger than it

40:27

that it might be right because

40:29

they don't have the rest of the

40:32

picture they don't have the full picture

40:34

that I described from concept from

40:36

conceptual design all the way to moving

40:38

in right the architects and to

40:40

some degree the contractor does and so

40:43

I suppose that's a way of advocating

40:45

or suggesting that anyone who's who's

40:47

in this in this in this process

40:49

Don't try and make critical decisions

40:51

or almost any decisions without talking to,

40:54

you know, having serious conversations with an

40:56

architect and or contractor, probably an

40:58

architect, to help provide guidance. And I've

41:00

said this before on the podcast

41:02

as well, where in normal situations, that's

41:05

one of the classic mistakes that clients

41:07

make, is they try to do

41:09

a bunch of work in thinking before

41:11

hiring an architect. And then architect

41:13

comes in and they say, well, good

41:16

on you for trying, but I'm going

41:18

to reshift everything you've said because

41:20

what you've said doesn't actually really make

41:22

sense concerning the big picture. So

41:24

you've got to surround yourself with good

41:27

professionals and start the conversations. Of course,

41:29

it would be remiss of me

41:31

if I didn't mention the fact that

41:33

budget. plays into all of this. And

41:36

the things that I'm describing are

41:38

potentially a non-starter for someone who's on

41:40

an ultra-ultra-tight budget. And I certainly

41:42

understand that. Yeah, and I think, you

41:44

know, the architecture community in LA is

41:47

pretty strong right now, and everybody

41:49

is kind of like, you know, rolling

41:51

up their sleeves and trying to

41:53

see like how everybody can help all

41:56

of the victims of the fires. So

41:58

talking about budget, you know, and

42:00

maybe having... some homeowners that don't really

42:02

know what to do or don't

42:04

really know like how to approach this

42:07

thing and might not even be able

42:09

to hire an architect. you could

42:11

still reach out to a lot of

42:13

architects in LA who would be

42:15

more than happy to have like a

42:18

15 minute half an hour our conversation

42:20

you know on the phone and

42:22

trying to understand what is it that

42:24

you know where is your property

42:26

and what are you trying to to

42:29

decide and give you the best advice

42:31

and if not like guide you

42:33

to the right people yeah so you

42:35

know sometimes architect could feel like they're

42:38

like way out of reach or

42:40

they are like pretentious and... So for

42:42

your homeowners my thing like, oh

42:44

if I call them or I don't

42:46

hire them, like oh they're going to

42:49

give me information. I think in

42:51

this case like any architect you will

42:53

call in LA would really like

42:55

you know help you out. That's how

42:57

we operate. I mean for our office

43:00

like I'm always on phone calls

43:02

with people who could be clients and

43:04

could not be honest fine with

43:06

me. I'll spend an hour with you

43:08

and help you and help you out.

43:11

I mean it's because it's because

43:13

it's I understand the amount of commitment

43:15

and the importance of a house

43:17

too. I mean, that's why we do

43:20

what we do. We believe in the

43:22

value that a house brings in

43:24

good design. And if I can steer

43:26

someone in the right direction, even if

43:29

it's not with us, I will

43:31

gladly spend an hour doing that. You

43:33

know, I think I do want

43:35

to quickly touch back on the 110%

43:37

in the site planning component, because I

43:40

wonder if someone listening who doesn't

43:42

have a, is not an architect in

43:44

their homeowner, is thinking well, But

43:46

if I'm keeping the foundations, can't we

43:48

just design something really good making use

43:51

of this foundations and it'll be

43:53

okay? Or where those foundations were. Because

43:55

also to clarify that if you're

43:57

doing an eligible rebuild, you can fully

43:59

demolish the foundations, right? You just have

44:02

to put... what you're putting back

44:04

has to be roughly what was there

44:06

before in its shape and footprint,

44:08

it's square footage. But why can't we

44:10

adhere to that 110% rule but still

44:13

have a really nice house? And

44:15

depending on what was there before it's

44:17

certainly possible, but I'll say this,

44:19

that the first thing in the design

44:21

of any... structure, and in this case

44:24

a house that dictates whether or

44:26

not the design is going to be

44:28

good, is the site planning. That means

44:30

where the house, the structure is

44:32

located on the site and how it's

44:35

located on the site and how

44:37

it's located on the site and the

44:39

massing and how many stories and whatever

44:41

else. At a very kind of

44:43

primitive level, primary level, before talking about

44:46

the interior floor pines and more

44:48

walls and doors going, where windows going,

44:50

all that stuff. It's the massing. So,

44:53

like, we have a project, actually

44:55

a couple projects now, where there was

44:57

an existing house on site, or

44:59

existing structures, multiple structures in some cases.

45:01

And the question is, like, can we

45:04

make use of these structures? And

45:06

most of the time, in construction, like

45:08

the building construction aspect, yeah, we

45:10

could. But these structures are so poorly

45:12

positioned on the site that... it's limiting

45:15

us from actually utilizing the site

45:17

and getting the most value out of

45:19

the site, both in terms of ROI,

45:21

resell value, but also the poetics

45:23

and the feeling of the site, and

45:26

the quality of the design, quality

45:28

of the site, that all starts with

45:30

the massing. So... That is, and any

45:32

architect listening is like, yes, yes

45:34

it does, because it's the first thing

45:37

you learn in architecture school. It

45:39

starts there. Well, it's kind of like

45:41

the basic, you know, the basic stuff,

45:43

but if you get that wrong,

45:45

that just messes up everything else that

45:48

follows. There's nothing you can do

45:50

to fix a bad side plan. You

45:52

know, like if let's say your house

45:54

is like really, really close to

45:56

like... you know, have a party in

45:59

the front yard of your house.

46:01

Well, maybe now is like a good

46:03

opportunity to like relocate in a way

46:05

that makes sense. Or maybe, I

46:07

don't know, and what's interesting too is

46:10

that homeowners are going to rebuild

46:12

and their neighbors are going to rebuild.

46:14

And I think that's also a very

46:16

interesting. Not experiment, but kind of

46:18

like an interesting thing to happen because

46:21

how often do you and your both

46:23

of your neighbors are going to

46:25

be rebuilding a house? Never, right? I

46:28

know, same time. So I think

46:30

there is like the potential for very

46:32

interesting... conversation and even design the neighborhood

46:34

back, you know. I agree. You

46:36

bring up a super good point because

46:39

for most projects, if you're in

46:41

a typical neighborhood, you don't have a

46:43

massive, massive property with acres. As an

46:45

architect, we first look at the

46:47

context, right? We look at what's allowed

46:50

zoning wise, but we looked at

46:52

the surrounding ones, but we looked at

46:54

the surrounding buildings and structures, okay, your

46:56

neighbor has a window right there,

46:58

we're not going to put your primary

47:01

bathroom and facing that, because that

47:03

would be bad. In this case, it's

47:05

all going to be new. we will

47:07

be pursuing that. And I guess

47:09

as homeowners, I would probably, I would

47:12

recommend that you tell your architect,

47:14

like, can you. You know, I know

47:16

my neighbor, I'll put you in touch

47:18

with their architect, can you guys

47:20

talk to each other? Because you don't

47:23

want to have your two bathroom windows

47:25

that are like four to swing

47:27

glass. Well, that's so silly, right? Because

47:29

usually when you design a new

47:31

home, you have existing buildings next to

47:34

you. So you're kind of like designed

47:36

based on what the context around

47:38

is. But if everybody is designing, kind

47:40

of ignoring the context because the

47:42

context is gone. You can't I mean

47:45

you have to go design with like

47:47

your eyes closed like you don't

47:49

know what's gonna what's gonna happen So

47:51

yeah, I think that could be

47:53

pretty interesting. So we'll probably have more

47:56

recordings like this in the future Hopefully

47:58

where it's just kind of updates

48:00

on the things that We think will

48:03

be helpful to people and things

48:05

that we've learned. But I think the

48:07

key point as a conclusion to this

48:09

is utilize the architects and professionals

48:11

for advice of seeing that bigger picture

48:14

and helping you think about it that

48:16

way and to again provide order

48:18

to the information so you don't let

48:20

the information that's talked about the

48:22

most be the thing that dictates and

48:25

makes decisions for you. Because oftentimes the

48:27

thing that's talked about the most

48:29

is not actually the most important thing

48:31

in the case of these projects.

48:33

If you have questions, then reach out

48:36

to us. More than happy again to

48:38

help you out. And if we're

48:40

not the right fit for you, we

48:42

can recommend you to a whole

48:44

bunch of architects. Yeah, and so on

48:47

that note also, if you need someone

48:49

for debris cleanup or anything else,

48:51

anything that we talked about, reach out,

48:53

we'll put you in touch with

48:55

those people or find someone for you.

48:58

You can find us, we can find

49:00

the office on Instagram, it's Fame,

49:02

underscore architects. Our office is Fame, Fame

49:04

Architects.com is the website. The podcast

49:06

has a hotline which you can call

49:09

or text, which is 2-1-3-22-2-2-6-9-5-0. You can

49:11

find the podcast on Instagram. It's

49:13

second studio pod. And you can find

49:15

both out there everywhere. As we get

49:18

more information with this whole process,

49:20

we would share what we find or

49:22

make sure that we keep. people

49:24

updated yeah with with that but oh

49:26

hopefully this is oh yeah leave a

49:29

review typically we start the outro

49:31

by asking for review and I forgot

49:33

so leave a review if you

49:35

like the show and appreciate it and

49:38

we'll talk to you guys soon thanks

49:40

bye