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in the Ocean"] ["Ace

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in the Ocean"] Welcome

2:11

to the Serial Killer Podcast,

2:13

the podcast dedicated to serial

2:16

killers. They were what

2:18

they did and how. Episode

2:21

235. I

2:24

am your humble host, Thomas Rosaland

2:27

Weiburg Thuh. Last

2:29

episode we ended on Roman

2:32

Polanski's alleged crimes against the

2:34

fairer sex, as well

2:36

as children. Big

2:38

lits and glamour of

2:40

Hollywood. Dim, the closer you

2:42

get to it. At least

2:44

that is the way I see it. The

2:47

things that sparkle and shine often

2:50

turn out to be cheap mica

2:52

and plastic, not silver

2:54

and gold. Tonight

2:57

we continue down the twisting

2:59

path that leads to

3:02

Charles Manson's intoxicating eyes. Enjoy.

3:07

This episode, like all other sagas

3:10

told by me, would not be

3:12

possible without my loyal patreonies. They

3:14

are. Elizabeth, Lisa,

3:17

Kathy, Corbin, Craig,

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Jonathan, Lunivar,

3:21

Cheryl, Richard, Brad,

3:24

Manuel, Ayulan and

3:26

Ricky. You

3:29

are truly the backbone

3:31

of the Serial Killer Podcast. And

3:34

without you, there would be no show. Patreon

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episodes for my TSK Producers

3:43

Club and I also have a

3:46

bonus episode I'm quite happy with for my $10

3:48

plus club members. It's

3:51

a movie review. This

3:53

time the film in question is the

3:55

Serial Killer film Long Legs. So

3:58

don't miss out and And

4:01

head on over to patreon.com/the

4:03

serial killer podcast now. As

4:31

I said previously, the Manson

4:33

case canon is fairly cut

4:35

and dry. Crazed

4:37

hippie cult leader brainwashes young

4:40

impressionable cult members to commit

4:42

atrocities in order to

4:44

bring about race war and Armageddon.

4:48

But when you scratch on the surface,

4:50

several problems pop up. William

4:55

Garretson was born on the 24th of August

4:57

1949 in Lancaster, Ohio. He was the caretaker

5:04

of the Polanski residence

5:07

at 10050 Cielo

5:10

Drive in Benedict Canyon

5:12

at the time of Sharon

5:14

Tate's murder by Tex Watson,

5:16

Susan Atkins and Patricia Krenwinkel.

5:21

Garretson, who stayed in a small

5:23

cottage behind the main house, was

5:26

miraculously unharmed and

5:29

undisturbed during the murders

5:31

on the 9th of August 1969. The following

5:33

morning he was discovered

5:35

in the

5:38

guesthouse and quickly arrested on

5:40

charges of suspicion of murder.

5:43

When questioned, Garretson said

5:46

he was unaware of the murders

5:48

until police burst into his bedroom

5:51

and led him to the bloody

5:53

bodies of Frikowski and Abigail Folger,

5:56

lying on the lawn and Stephen Parent

5:58

slumped over the wheel. wheel of his

6:00

car. Police

6:03

spared Garrison a sight even more

6:05

horrible inside the house. Sharon

6:08

Tate, eight and a half months

6:10

pregnant, had been stabbed repeatedly and

6:13

was curled in a fetal position

6:15

as if to protect her unborn

6:17

son. Nearby, a

6:20

bloody towel covered the head

6:22

of hairdresser J.C. Brink, her

6:24

former boyfriend, who had been

6:27

stabbed and shot. The two

6:29

were connected by a rope, hung

6:31

over a rafter and looped around their

6:33

necks. Garrison

6:36

again reassured police that he

6:38

had heard nothing because

6:40

he had been listening to music all night.

6:44

However, in a

6:46

1990s documentary about Sharon Tate's death,

6:49

Garrison changed his story and

6:52

stated that he heard what

6:54

sounded like firecrackers being thrown

6:56

from Stephen Palin's car and

6:59

thought it was a prank pulled by Palin

7:01

who had just departed. It turned

7:04

out the firecrackers were gunshots.

7:07

He also stated he heard a woman

7:09

scream as she ran by the pool.

7:13

However, it was the same type of

7:15

scream a woman would scream as if

7:17

she were being thrown into the pool.

7:20

It was Friday night, late night

7:22

parties did occur at the main house, so

7:25

it is entirely possible that Garrison

7:27

did not fully understand what danger

7:29

was occurring that night. This

7:34

is to no surprise as

7:37

the LAPD officer, who originally

7:39

conducted his polygraph examination, had

7:42

concluded Garrison was quote-unquote

7:44

clean on participation

7:47

in the crimes, yet muddy

7:50

as to his having heard anything. Garrison

7:53

did not explain why he had withheld

7:56

his knowledge of the events. Speculation

7:59

and theories about Garretson

8:02

suggest he was using drugs and

8:04

an arresting officer said he looked gone

8:07

with no life in his eyes. Garretson

8:12

was the main suspect and

8:15

there was a media blitz around

8:17

his arrest. Police

8:19

tried to hold on to him for

8:21

as long as possible as they had

8:24

absolutely no other leads and

8:26

he was the only person found alive on

8:28

the premises. He was

8:30

held for questioning over the weekend

8:33

and released after police said there

8:35

was just no evidence against him.

8:38

He was given a polygraph examination

8:41

on the 10th of August 1969 and that had

8:45

effectively eliminated him as a

8:48

suspect. He was released

8:50

a few days later. Garretson

8:53

wound up suing the city

8:56

for false arrest, false imprisonment,

8:58

invasion of privacy and

9:00

violation of his constitutional rights.

9:04

He said he was not advised of

9:06

his right to remain silent until

9:08

several hours after his arrest. Garretson

9:13

was still in custody the

9:15

next night when the La Biancas were

9:17

tied up with lampcords

9:20

and stabbed to death in Los Feliz.

9:24

William Garretson, who moved

9:26

back to his hometown of

9:28

Lancaster, Ohio after his arrest,

9:31

was called as a witness by

9:34

and on behalf of the people

9:36

of the state of California versus

9:38

Charles Manson and testified in

9:40

the trial on the 26th of July 1970. So,

9:48

there lives enough. Garretson was cleared

9:50

of suspicion based solely on his

9:53

polygraph results. This

9:55

is, to be blunt, quite shocking.

10:00

The polygraph is, in my

10:02

opinion, pure Hamburg. There

10:05

is a reason polygraph tests are

10:07

inadmissible in court. The

10:11

use of a polygraph, aka

10:13

a lie detector test, have

10:16

become a popular cultural icon.

10:20

From crime dramas to

10:22

comedies to advertisements, the

10:24

picture of a polygraph pen

10:27

wildly gyrating on a moving

10:29

chart is readily recognized as

10:31

a symbol. But

10:33

as psychologist Leonard Sachs,

10:36

PhD, has argued, the

10:38

idea that we can

10:40

detect a person's veracity

10:42

by monitoring psychophysiological changes

10:45

is more myth than reality.

10:50

Even the term lie detector,

10:53

used to refer to polygraph testing,

10:56

is a misnomer. So-called

10:58

lie detection involves

11:00

inferring deception through

11:03

analysis of physiological responses

11:05

to a structured but

11:08

unstandardized series of questions.

11:11

The instrument, typically used to

11:14

conduct polygraph tests, consists

11:16

of a physiological recorder

11:18

that assesses the three

11:21

indicators of autonomic arousal,

11:24

heart rate, blood pressure,

11:27

respiration, and skin conductivity.

11:31

Most examiners today use

11:33

computerized recording systems. Rate

11:36

and depth of respiration are

11:39

measured by pneumografts wrapped around

11:41

the subject's chest.

11:44

Cardiovascular activity is assessed

11:46

by a blood pressure

11:48

cuff. Skin

11:50

conductivity, called the

11:52

galvanic skin or electrodermal

11:55

response, is measured

11:57

through electrodes attached to a subject's

11:59

finger. tips. The

12:03

recording instrument and questioning

12:05

techniques are only

12:07

used during a part of the

12:09

polygraph examination. A

12:12

typical examination includes

12:14

a pre-test phase, during

12:17

which the technique is explained

12:20

and each test question reviewed.

12:24

The pre-test interview is

12:26

designed to ensure that

12:28

subjects understand the questions

12:31

and to induce a

12:33

subject's concern about being

12:35

deceptive. Polygraph

12:38

examinations often include a

12:41

procedure called a stimulation test,

12:44

which is a demonstration of

12:46

the instrument's accuracy in detecting

12:48

deception. Several questioning

12:51

techniques are commonly used

12:54

in a polygraph test. The

12:56

most widely used test format

12:59

for subjects in criminal incident

13:01

investigations is the

13:03

control question test, CQT.

13:08

The CQT compares responses

13:11

to relevant questions, for

13:14

example, did you shoot your wife?

13:17

With those of control questions.

13:20

The control questions are designed

13:23

to control for the effect

13:25

of the generally threatening nature

13:27

of relevant questions. Control

13:31

questions concern misdeeds that

13:34

are similar to those being

13:36

investigated but refer to the

13:38

subject's past and are usually

13:40

broad in scope. For

13:43

example, have you ever betrayed

13:45

anyone who trusted you? A

13:49

person who is telling the truth is

13:52

assumed to fear control

13:54

questions more than relevant

13:56

questions. This is because

13:58

control questions are not used to control

14:00

questions. are designed to arouse a subject's

14:03

concern about their past

14:05

truthfulness. While relevant

14:07

questions ask about a

14:10

crime they know they did not commit.

14:13

A pattern of greater

14:15

physiological response to

14:17

relevant questions and to control

14:19

questions leads to

14:22

a diagnosis of deception. Greater

14:25

response to control questions

14:27

leads to a judgment

14:29

of non-deception. If

14:31

no difference is found between

14:33

relevant and control questions, the

14:36

test result is considered inconclusive.

14:41

An alternative polygraph procedure

14:43

is called the guilty

14:46

knowledge test, GKT. A

14:49

GKT involves developing a multiple-choice

14:52

test with items concerning knowledge

14:54

that only a guilty subject

14:57

could have. A

14:59

test of a theft suspect

15:02

might, for example, involve questions

15:04

such as Was $500 $1000 $5000

15:06

or $5000 stolen? If

15:14

only a guilty suspect knows the correct

15:16

answer, a larger physiological

15:18

reaction to a correct choice

15:21

would indicate deception. With

15:24

a sufficient number of items, a

15:27

psychometricly sound evaluation

15:29

could be developed. GKT's

15:32

are not widely employed,

15:35

but there is great interest in doing

15:37

so. One limitation

15:39

of their GKT is that it

15:41

can be used only when

15:44

investigators have information that

15:46

only a guilty subject would know.

15:50

The interpretation of no

15:52

deception is also a potential

15:55

limitation, since it may

15:57

indicate lack of knowledge rather than

15:59

innocent. The

16:02

accuracy, i.e. validity,

16:05

of polygraph testing has

16:07

long been controversial. An

16:10

underlying problem is theoretical. There

16:13

is no evidence that any

16:16

pattern of physiological reactions is

16:19

unique to deception. An

16:21

honest person may be nervous

16:24

when answering truthfully, and

16:26

a dishonest person may be

16:29

non-anxious. Also, there

16:31

are few good studies that

16:33

validate the ability of polygraph

16:35

procedures to detect deception.

16:38

As Dr. Sacks and

16:41

Israeli psychologist Gershon Ben-Shahar

16:44

note, and I quote, it

16:47

may in fact be impossible

16:49

to conduct a proper validity

16:51

study. In

16:55

real world situations, it's

16:57

very difficult to know what

16:59

the truth is. A

17:03

particular problem is that

17:05

polygraph research has not separated

17:08

placebo-like effects, the subjects'

17:11

belief in the efficacy of the

17:13

procedure, from the

17:15

actual relationship between deception

17:18

and their physiological

17:20

responses. One

17:23

reason that polygraph tests may appear

17:25

to be accurate is

17:27

that subjects who believe that the

17:29

test works and that they

17:32

can be detected may confess

17:35

or will be very anxious when

17:37

questioned. If this review

17:39

is correct, the lie

17:41

detector might be better called

17:43

a fear detector. Are

17:47

you a professional pillow fighter, or a

17:49

9-to-5 low-cost time travel agent, or maybe

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real estate sales on Mars is your

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profession? It doesn't matter.

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with monday.com, work is just

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whatever you run. Go

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to monday.com to learn more. This

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episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. It's

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my favorite time of the year

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again, dear listener. October.

18:28

With the leaves falling away and

18:30

the night starting to chill, along

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also comes my favorite

18:36

holiday. Halloween. The

18:38

one time of the year where we

18:40

get to revel in what gets the

18:43

hairs on our necks stand up. Trick

18:45

or treat. Monsters, real

18:47

or imagined, come to life.

18:51

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scares on display and have fun

18:55

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18:57

rest of the year? Therapy

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19:01

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19:11

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episode is sponsored by Kill List. In

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a quiet suburb, a community

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is shattered by the death of a

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beloved wife and mother. But

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this tragic loss of life quickly

19:54

turns into something even darker. Her

19:57

husband had tried to hire a

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hitman. on the dark web to

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kill her. And she

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wasn't the only target. Because

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app for all your true

20:57

crime listening. Some

21:02

confusion about polygraph test accuracy

21:05

arises because they are used

21:07

for different purposes and

21:09

for each context somewhat different

21:12

theory and research is applicable.

21:15

Thus, for example, virtually no

21:18

research assesses the type of

21:20

test and procedure used to

21:23

screen individuals for jobs and

21:25

security clearances. Most

21:28

research has focused on specific

21:30

incident testing. The

21:32

cumulative research evidence suggests

21:36

that CQTs detect

21:38

deception better than

21:40

chance, but with

21:43

significant error rates, both

21:45

of misclassifying innocent subjects,

21:48

false positives and failing

21:51

to detect guilty individuals, false

21:53

negatives. Research

21:56

on the processes involved

21:59

in CQTs polygraph examinations

22:02

suggest that several examiner

22:04

examinee and situational factors

22:06

influence test validity, as

22:09

may be the technique used to

22:12

score polygraph charge. There

22:15

is little research on the

22:17

effects of subjects' differences in

22:20

such factors as education,

22:22

intelligence, or level

22:24

of autonomic arousal. Intelligence

22:28

indicates that strategies used to

22:31

beat polygraph examinations, so-called

22:35

countermeasures, may be

22:37

effective. Countermeasures

22:39

include simple physical movements, psychological

22:43

interventions, e.g.

22:45

manipulating subjects' beliefs about a

22:47

test, and

22:49

the use of pharmacological

22:51

agents that alter arousal

22:53

patterns. Polygraph

22:57

testing has generated considerable

23:00

scientific and public controversy.

23:04

Most psychologists and other scientists

23:06

agree that there is little

23:08

basis for the validity of

23:10

polygraph tests. Courts,

23:13

including the United States Supreme

23:15

Court, U.S. v.

23:18

Schaeffer, 1998, in which Dr. Sacks'

23:21

research on polygraph fallibility was

23:24

cited, have repeatedly rejected

23:26

the use of polygraph

23:29

evidence because of its

23:31

inherent unreliability. Nevertheless,

23:35

polygraph testing continues to

23:37

be used in non-judicial

23:40

settings, often to screen

23:42

personnel, but sometimes to

23:44

try to assess the veracity

23:46

of suspects and witnesses, and

23:50

to monitor criminal offenders on probation. Polygraph

23:53

tests are also sometimes used

23:55

by individuals seeking to convince

23:58

others of their innocence The

26:01

more I read about Gerritsen, the

26:03

more I question whether Manson's

26:05

choice of Cielo Drive was

26:08

as Pugliosi and others have

26:10

claimed. And if

26:12

Gerritsen was involved, perhaps

26:14

even instrumental, in

26:16

the Cielo Drive butchery, he

26:19

has never faced any consequences for

26:21

his actions. But

26:25

the Gerritsen Enigma is but

26:28

one small facet of a

26:30

whole prism of problems with

26:32

the Manson case. Terrence

26:37

Paul Melcher was

26:39

an American record producer, singer

26:41

and songwriter who was

26:43

instrumental in shaping the mid

26:46

to late 1960s California sound

26:48

and folk rock movements. His

26:51

best known contributions were producing

26:53

the birds first two albums,

26:56

Mr. Tambourine Man from 1965 and Tarn

26:59

Tarn Tarn also from 1965, as well

27:01

as most of the hit recordings of

27:08

Paul Revere and the Raiders and

27:11

Gentle Soul. He is

27:13

also known for his collaborations with

27:15

Bruce Johnston and

27:18

for his association with the

27:20

Manson family. Melcher

27:24

was the only child of

27:26

actress-singer Doris Day. His

27:28

father was Day's first husband, Al

27:31

Jordan, and he was

27:33

adopted by her third husband, Martin

27:36

Melcher. Most

27:38

of his early recordings were with

27:40

the vocal surf acts, the

27:42

ripcords and Bruce and Terry.

27:46

In the 1960s, Melcher was acquainted with

27:48

the Beach Boys. He

27:50

performed on the Beach Boys album Pet

27:52

Sounds, playing Tambourine on

27:55

That's Not Me, Good Vibrations, God

27:58

Only Knows. and was

28:00

a board member of the Monterey Pop

28:03

Foundation and the producer

28:05

of the Monterey Pop Festival in 1967.

28:10

In 1968, Beach boy

28:13

Dennis Wilson introduced Melcher

28:15

to ex-con and aspiring

28:17

musician Charles Manson. Manson

28:20

and his family had

28:22

been living in Wilson's house at

28:24

14,400 Sunset Boulevard after

28:29

Wilson had picked up hitchhiking

28:31

Manson family members Patricia Cranwinkel

28:34

and Ella Jo Bailey. Wilson

28:36

expressed interest in Manson's music

28:39

and also recorded two of Manson's songs

28:41

with the Beach boys. For

28:44

a time, Melcher was interested

28:46

in recording Manson's music as

28:49

well as making a film about the

28:51

family and their hippie commune existence. Manson

28:55

met Melcher at

28:59

10050 C.N.O. Drive, the

29:02

home that Melcher shared with

29:04

his girlfriend actress Candice Bergen

29:07

and musician Mark Lindsay. Manson

29:11

eventually auditioned for Melcher, but

29:13

Melcher declined to sign him.

29:17

There was still talk of

29:19

a documentary being made about

29:21

Manson's music, but Melcher abandoned

29:23

the projects after witnessing Manson

29:25

fighting with a drunken

29:27

stuntman at Spahn Ranch. Wilson

29:30

and Melcher severed their ties with

29:33

Manson, a move that angered

29:35

Manson. Soon

29:37

after, Melcher and Bergen moved

29:40

out of the C.L.O. Drive home.

29:43

The house's owner, Rudy Altobelli,

29:46

then leased it to film director Roman

29:48

Polanski and his wife, actress Sharon Tate.

29:52

Manson was reported to have visited

29:54

the house on more than one

29:56

occasion asking for Melcher, but

29:58

was told that Melcher had been there. moved. This,

30:01

we are told, is

30:03

the reason he chose Cielo

30:06

Drive for his orchestrated massacre.

30:10

If Manson had wanted to teach him

30:12

a lesson, it is

30:14

extremely odd that he would order

30:16

the killings of people who

30:18

had no real connection to him other

30:21

than that they lived at the

30:24

same address at different times. Melcher

30:27

didn't know any of the victims

30:29

at the Tate House. There

30:32

isn't even evidence that he had met

30:34

any of them. Plus, by

30:37

Boglio's own account, Manson

30:39

sent his followers to the Cielo house

30:42

knowing full well that Melcher

30:44

did not live there anymore. The

30:49

LAPD had split the case into

30:51

two, the Tate Murders

30:54

and the La Bianca killings. Even

30:57

though they were eerily similar, the

30:59

cops were convinced the La Bianca's

31:02

were just unlucky enough to get

31:04

caught in the crossfire of

31:06

some wannabe killer. After

31:09

all, the connection of a

31:11

Hollywood starlet to a suburban

31:13

couple in Los Feliz seemed

31:15

far-fetched at best. The

31:19

La Bianca team was basically ignored

31:21

by the media. A

31:23

dreary stabbing of a middle-aged

31:25

couple pales in comparison to

31:27

the ritualistic butchering of a

31:29

bunch of Hollywood elites. Over

31:33

at Cielo Drive, it was a

31:35

circus. The LAPD had thrown

31:37

every cop they could at the case.

31:40

Helicopters were circling overhead and the

31:42

place was guarded like Fort Knox.

31:46

In the first 24 hours of the Tate

31:48

Murders, a tip led detectives

31:50

to a potential suspect. A

31:53

friend of the victims, Witold

31:55

Kazanowski. A

31:57

Polish Emmy Grey and artist. had

32:00

been hinting to others that he knew

32:02

the killers. Fearing

32:05

for his life, Kazanowski had

32:07

disappeared. Through

32:09

Roman Polanski's manager, police tracked him

32:11

down and convinced him to cooperate,

32:14

promising round-the-clock protection. Kazanowski

32:19

believed Freikowski was

32:21

involved in the drug trade with

32:24

a dangerous crowd, including a man

32:27

named Harris Pick

32:29

Dawson. Dawson

32:31

had allegedly threatened Freikowski at

32:33

a recent party. The

32:35

word pig scrawled in

32:37

Tate's blood on the C.L.O. drive

32:40

door, reinforced Kazanowski's

32:42

theory as he believed it

32:44

referred to Pick Dawson.

32:48

Police found Kazanowski's information

32:50

credible, especially when

32:52

they learned about another altercation

32:55

at a house earlier that year.

32:59

At a going-away party at C.L.O. drive,

33:02

attended by more than 100 guests, three

33:06

gate-crashers had behaved so aggressively

33:08

that Polanski had them kicked

33:10

out. They were

33:13

Billy Doyle, Tom Harrigan and

33:15

Pick Dawson. Hoping

33:17

to ask Polanski about these three, police

33:20

anxiously awaited his return from London.

33:23

Scheduled for the evening of the 10th of

33:25

August, the day after the bodies had been

33:28

discovered. Polanski flew

33:30

back to L.A. under heavy

33:32

sedation, with his long-time producer

33:34

Jean Gutowski and two

33:36

friends Warren Beatty and Victor Lones.

33:40

At the airport, he was spirited through

33:42

a side exit to a waiting car,

33:45

while Gutowski read a statement to the

33:47

throngs of press. The

33:51

chairman of Paramount Pictures had arranged

33:53

a suite for Polanski on the

33:56

studio lot, a place where

33:58

he could avoid the prying eyes. Frickowski

36:00

may have gotten in over his head in

36:03

those months before the murders. It

36:06

was a turbulent time at the Cielo

36:08

house. Much more

36:10

chaotic than Bugliosi had reported.

36:14

When Tate and Polanski left, they

36:16

gave Frickowski and Abigail Folger the

36:18

run of the place. And

36:21

things got weird. The

36:24

couple threw parties all the

36:26

time. The door was open

36:28

to anyone and everyone. The

36:31

crowds grew rowdier, the drugs

36:34

harder. Not just potent

36:36

hash, but an abundance

36:38

of cocaine, mescaline, LSD and

36:40

MDA. Which was then

36:42

a new and fairly unheard of

36:44

synthetic. Frickowski was

36:46

especially enamored of it. Dawson

36:50

Doyle and Härgen, the same trio

36:52

who had been booted from the

36:54

party in mid-March, were now

36:57

regular guests at the house, sometimes

36:59

staying for days at a time. They

37:02

also supplied most of the drugs. By

37:05

July, the three

37:07

men, all international smugglers, had

37:10

cornered the market on MDA, which

37:13

was manufactured in Doyle and

37:16

Härgen's hometown, Toronto. Frickowski

37:18

wanted in. Although he

37:21

did not have much cash, Folger,

37:23

his heiress girlfriend, kept him

37:25

on a tight leash financially.

37:28

He managed to negotiate a deal with

37:30

his new friends, making himself

37:33

a middleman between them and

37:35

Hollywood. Casanowski

37:38

had been the last of Frickowski's

37:41

friends to see him

37:43

alive. The two had gotten

37:45

together at his gallery. Just

37:47

hours before the murders, he

37:49

had intended to visit the Tate House that

37:51

night, but he was simply too

37:53

tired. Frickowski had called

37:55

him around midnight, likely

37:58

just minutes before the killers