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0:02

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over to airbnb.com/host. And now, on to

1:00

the show. One of the

1:02

fastest ways to make extra money?

1:04

Just stop spending as much. It

1:06

goes straight to your bottom line.

1:09

Hey, and you didn't even have

1:11

to come up with a new

1:13

business idea. Today we're talking tactical

1:15

and creative money-saving hacks with a

1:17

long-time listener. A serial side hustler.

1:19

She's the co-host of the Fugel

1:21

Friends podcast and co-author of the

1:23

new book, Buy What You Love, Without

1:26

Outgo and Broke. Jen Smith, welcome to

1:28

the Side Hustle show. Nick. Well, it's

1:30

been a long time coming. Appreciate you

1:32

joining me today. I think we both

1:34

are in agreement that it's important to

1:37

take a holistic view of personal finance,

1:39

thinking of yourself as the CEO or

1:41

the CFO of your own life, and

1:43

really taking charge of your personal profitability,

1:45

which, of course, includes the revenue side,

1:48

which we've got hundreds and hundreds of

1:50

episodes about increasing your income, but it

1:52

also includes the expense side, which we

1:54

typically don't talk a lot about. With

1:56

that, I want to see it up

1:59

to you for suggestion number. on how

2:01

to spend less money or start saving

2:03

more, or maybe a foundation that you

2:05

need to lay on this mission to

2:07

get the spending in check. Yeah,

2:09

I love side hustling, but you're

2:11

right. When you focus on the

2:14

expense side, that's the lowest barrier

2:16

to entry, and you can start

2:18

seeing more margin between your income

2:21

and expenses faster when you stop

2:23

spending money than if you're just

2:25

focus on side hustles. So what

2:28

we tell everyone to do... is

2:30

yes first track every expense but

2:32

not just your current expenses and

2:34

your future expenses first you want

2:37

to start with your past expenses

2:39

too so first Look back at

2:41

your last 90 days of spending

2:43

and figure out what are the

2:46

patterns, what are the habits, what

2:48

am I already spending on. So

2:50

that way, you're better prepared as

2:52

you go through life and you're

2:55

spending money, you have a little

2:57

bit more knowledge and a little

2:59

bit more preparation on the things

3:01

you're more prone to spend on,

3:03

the situations where you're more prone to

3:06

impulse spend or to overspend. So we

3:08

look back. before we look forward, but

3:10

that first tip is the same, is

3:12

that you have to know what you're

3:14

doing. You have to track your expenses.

3:16

For this, are you just pulling up

3:19

the past three months of credit

3:21

card statements and trying to figure

3:23

out, well, where to really go?

3:25

We're trying to categorize these spending

3:27

into different buckets? Yeah, you can

3:29

really easily do it with whatever

3:31

you're using for your credit card

3:33

or your debit card, wherever your

3:35

transactions are, or if you're using

3:37

a budgeting app, like... Wynab, monarch,

3:39

co-pilot, any of those, they do

3:41

it automatically for you. And it's

3:43

really easy to sort by the

3:46

dates that you made. So maybe

3:48

you went on vacation, you want

3:50

to see maybe what you're more

3:52

prone to overspending on vacation. You

3:54

can sort by category, so maybe

3:56

you're not going to the same

3:58

place over and over. you're doing

4:00

take out over and over just

4:02

at different places or maybe you

4:04

do sort alphabetically so that you

4:07

can see your expenses at each

4:09

place like yeah maybe I'm grocery

4:11

shopping on Sunday but I'm always

4:13

heading back to the grocery store

4:15

Wednesday or Thursday because I just

4:17

didn't make enough of a list

4:19

or I didn't stick to the

4:21

list enough so I'm always heading

4:23

back for that one thing and

4:25

getting more while in there. This is

4:27

something that Bern and I did a few

4:29

months ago. We used monarch, which there's some

4:32

level of irony in it being a paid

4:34

tool to help you spend less. I use

4:36

monarch too. Yeah, I pay for it as well. You know,

4:38

they probably have some like new customer

4:40

discount. I'll look that up, I'll link

4:42

it up in the show notes for

4:44

you. But what we did, because we

4:46

kind of had this sense of, well,

4:48

here's our, you know, bare bones budget

4:50

or like kind of the big ticket

4:52

mortgage and utilities and utilities. food, we have

4:55

had a general sense of what it costs

4:57

to sustain our lifestyle, but then like

4:59

every month when the credit card statement

5:01

would come and be like, oh, that seems

5:03

a little bit high. What do we buy?

5:06

It was like, oh, well, we had plane

5:08

tickets or we had a car repair or

5:10

we had, you know, something else broke. It's

5:13

like, well, it wasn't a one-off thing. It's

5:15

like a very consistent thing. So we used

5:17

monarch to look at the last. 12 months,

5:19

it'd be like, well, what do we actually

5:22

spend? And it was kind of our hunches

5:24

became true and the outflow was quite a

5:26

bit higher than we had mentally envisioned in

5:28

our heads. Yeah, it's always more nerve-wracking

5:31

before you actually look. That's why

5:33

so many people just don't want

5:35

to look back. We just want

5:38

to start fresh slate. go forward

5:40

looking at expenses, but you will

5:42

be more effective faster if you're

5:45

trying to lower your spending by

5:47

knowing where you're starting from. And

5:49

it's always scary or not knowing

5:51

than when you actually look into

5:54

it. Okay. Now let's say you've

5:56

got this itemized list of

5:58

spending. What do you do? next because

6:00

this is kind of still a

6:02

backwards look and now we've got

6:05

to apply it going forward. You're

6:07

looking for those impulse buys, trying

6:09

to categorize things as impulse virtual,

6:12

that was a one-off thing, I don't

6:14

need to make that again, or what

6:16

goes, what happens next? So once you

6:18

look back, then you can start looking

6:20

forward. So then you would start

6:23

to make a budget, but I

6:25

would say everybody's budgeting style

6:27

is different. And everybody thrives.

6:29

with a different level of either

6:31

being very strict or being very

6:33

loose. Like for me, I hated

6:35

the strict budget, but I thought

6:38

that's what I had to do

6:40

to be in control of my

6:42

spending. And what I found was

6:44

when I gave myself more flexibility

6:46

in the categories, like created fewer

6:48

categories, it actually gave me more

6:51

freedom to not spend on things and

6:53

to spend without guilt, and it

6:55

made it more sustainable for me.

6:57

So, but the next point is

6:59

to make a spending plan for

7:01

the future. You can call it

7:03

spending plan, budget, whatever makes you

7:05

feel good. Spending plan sounds better

7:07

than budget for sure. Right, so like

7:09

the beautiful thing about language is that

7:12

there's so many synonyms for the same

7:14

thing, right? So if one word gives

7:16

you like the gross feeling like budget

7:18

sometimes can, you can call it something

7:21

else. Yeah, so it feels like

7:23

very restrictive, yeah. Right, right.

7:25

So making some kind of

7:27

spending plan for what I

7:29

want to do. And we

7:31

recommend a zero-based budget, but

7:33

not just to have every dollar

7:35

tied up into whatever's most efficient, but

7:37

so that you know that you have

7:39

enough to put towards your financial goals

7:42

and whatever you're planning to do. So

7:44

if you need a little extra capital

7:46

to start a side hustle or you're

7:48

trying to pay off a debt before

7:51

you can, so you can work less,

7:53

you have more time for your side

7:55

hustle, you want to make sure those

7:58

things are covered first and on the...

8:00

timeline you want to cover them

8:02

and then with the rest that's

8:04

where we figure out our discretionary

8:06

purchases. Obviously paying bills you know

8:08

first and foremost but that's kind

8:10

of what you want to do

8:12

and you can make a budget

8:14

or spending plan that you will

8:16

stick to better. because you already

8:18

know what you're spending on other

8:20

things. You're not just taking a

8:22

shot in the dark on what

8:25

you're spending on takeout or coffee

8:27

or whatever. You actually know how

8:29

much you've been spending over the past

8:31

three months. So maybe you spend the

8:33

same or maybe you shave it a

8:35

little bit, but you're not going to

8:37

cut it by 90% because it's an

8:40

arbitrary thing that you think, quote unquote,

8:42

you're supposed to be spending that much.

8:44

Okay, maybe akin to New Year's

8:46

resolution, I'm going to lose 50

8:49

pounds. I'm like, well, why don't

8:51

we start by losing five? Let's

8:53

maybe steps here. My understanding of

8:55

zero based budgeting is maybe

8:57

a cousin to like the profit-first methodology

8:59

in business accounting where it's like

9:01

I'm going to allocate whatever percentage

9:04

of the income like straight to

9:06

the bottom line first and maybe

9:08

in a personal sense that's like

9:10

straight to savings or that's straight

9:12

to 401k contributions like kind of out

9:14

of sight out of mind and what my

9:16

mother-in-law would always do and maybe this

9:18

is similar you could tell me if

9:20

like I'm getting zero-based budgeting wrong but

9:22

she would like from her paycheck direct

9:24

check direct direct deposit just what was

9:27

needed for her monthly expenses. You know,

9:29

I gotta pay the mortgage, I gotta

9:31

buy groceries, I gotta do utilities, and

9:33

everything else was like out of

9:35

sight, out of mind, into savings,

9:37

into investments, and it was a

9:39

really effective system for her. Is

9:41

that what I'm understanding? Yeah, that can

9:43

be it. And I think it's not

9:46

so much where the money goes that

9:48

zero-based budgeting is, but it's... having a

9:50

job for every dollar. So that dollar's

9:52

job could just be a miscellaneous fund

9:55

and you have a larger miscellaneous fund

9:57

because you don't want to have a

9:59

coffee. a takeout budget, a grocery

10:02

budget, a non-food grocery budget,

10:04

which I have seen like

10:06

people have two checkouts at

10:08

the grocery store because they

10:10

want to categorize food and

10:13

non-food differently. Like, if that's

10:15

you and you love that, do you?

10:17

That's not me. So I would rather

10:19

have bigger categories and

10:22

more flexibility within them.

10:24

And I can still be zero based.

10:26

Yeah, okay. I like that call to. and

10:29

make sure every dollar has a job

10:31

putting it to work. When I first

10:33

started working and get the direct deposit,

10:35

it's like, okay, whatever, they say allocate

10:37

10% to 401k or up to whatever

10:39

the company match was, and then everything

10:41

else just went into checking, and why

10:43

didn't? necessarily neat. I probably

10:45

could have accelerated my saving or investment

10:47

journey, you know, kind of was a

10:50

natural saver to begin with, but didn't

10:52

do a great job of investing that

10:54

in compounding assets, just kind of sat

10:56

there in a lot of cases. Yeah.

10:58

When you are intentional about what

11:00

you do with your money when

11:02

you get it, it just, it

11:04

works better. And when you take

11:06

care of the... bigger things, you

11:08

don't have to stress so much

11:11

about the smaller things. And so

11:13

that's like the 80-20 rule in

11:15

saving money. So when we look

11:17

at the Bureau of Labor statistics

11:19

on what Americans spend on most,

11:21

the biggest things are housing, transportation,

11:23

and food. those make up

11:25

about 60% those three things

11:28

60% of our monthly budget.

11:30

Yeah. So if we can

11:32

focus on those three things

11:35

first, mainly housing and transportation,

11:37

where we make decisions about

11:39

that maybe every five, ten,

11:41

fifteen years, but if we focus

11:44

on those really intentionally, then the six

11:46

dollar latte or the twenty dollar take

11:48

out makes a lot. less of an

11:50

impact. So for me, that was when

11:53

I got my last car, I didn't

11:55

pay cash for it, I got a

11:57

loan for it, and that's okay

11:59

with me, like I'm not against

12:02

like car loan debt, but

12:04

what saved me $4,000 in

12:06

one sitting was that after

12:08

hours of negotiating for one

12:11

car, which was virtually

12:13

identical to another one,

12:15

on the website, they were

12:17

the same price, but I

12:19

was sitting there waiting to

12:22

get this one car that after

12:24

all the fees and I have no

12:26

idea how it inflated to $4,000

12:28

more than the other car. And

12:30

I had this feeling, like, this

12:32

sunk cost feeling. I'd already spent

12:35

so much time negotiated. I've negotiated

12:37

down a lot. I've invested a

12:39

lot into the salesperson that I've

12:41

never met before and will never

12:43

see again in my life. So

12:45

I was sitting there and I

12:47

was about to buy the car

12:49

to just bite the bullet until

12:51

I realized... Is this worth $4,000,

12:53

like what I'm sitting here for,

12:55

and worrying more about myself versus

12:58

the time and the other

13:00

people around me? And I

13:02

was like, no. So I got

13:04

up, left, and went and got

13:06

the other car, and in that one

13:08

moment, which was very uncomfortable,

13:11

and I did not like

13:13

it, it saved me $4,000.

13:15

So it's making decisions like

13:17

that, that are what's going

13:19

to help us. like really cut

13:22

our spending. Yeah, that makes sense.

13:24

It's not so much the coffees here

13:26

are there. I mean, maybe it adds

13:29

up to a lot and there's, oh,

13:31

but if you save that $4 latte

13:33

and you compound it over, you know,

13:35

it's like, well, but if it brings

13:38

you joy in life, you know, come

13:40

on, but no, totally, like on the

13:42

housing, on the transportation, if you

13:44

find some creative ways to stretch

13:47

your food budget a little farther,

13:49

like these big, impacts. More money-saving

13:51

hacks with Jen in just a

13:53

moment, including my favorite non-confrontational negotiation

13:55

tactic, and four questions to ask

13:58

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16:28

I will share on the car buying experience,

16:30

I will share my most underrated negotiation

16:32

tactic, and it's just called silence. It's

16:34

just sitting there awkwardly for what feels

16:36

like an uncomfortable amount of time, and

16:39

I've seen this over and over again,

16:41

we were kind of taught this when

16:43

I was painting houses. Like once you

16:45

name your price and you present the

16:48

estimate, just sit there, wait for

16:50

a reaction, like don't talk yourself

16:52

out of a deal. I remember

16:54

going in and taking my car

16:56

in for like an emissions test,

16:58

and there was a place nearby

17:00

in you know, advertised deal on

17:02

the windows. I'd, you know, take

17:04

it in and they say, well,

17:06

because yours is an SUV, it's

17:08

going to cost more. And I

17:10

was like, well, first of all,

17:12

you know, calling my two-wheel drive,

17:14

a four-cylinder, four-scape, and SUV, it's

17:16

being very generous. But putting

17:18

that aside, the river to sitting there, it's

17:20

being very generous, but putting that aside, the

17:22

river to do that price. Turns out, like,

17:24

on Friday, our landlord had sent a note,

17:26

hey, we're going to have to raise your

17:28

rate to this, you know, maybe it was

17:30

a $300 increase or something. Didn't get the

17:33

email because we were not checking email. Come

17:35

back on Monday night and we see like

17:37

three, Monday night, and we see like three,

17:39

Monday night, and we see like three, Monday

17:41

night, and we see like three, Monday night,

17:43

and we see like three, Monday night, and

17:45

we see like, and we see like, like,

17:47

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

17:49

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

17:51

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

17:53

a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a,

17:55

a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, e-commerce stores have

17:57

like the abandoned cart sequence. So you might see a follow-up. email

18:00

where it's like, hey, did you

18:02

forget something? How about 10% off?

18:04

If you check out now. And

18:07

so, and that's my underrated new

18:09

negotiation tactic of just waiting, silence.

18:11

Yeah. Oh, my gosh, definitely. Anytime

18:13

I want to buy clothes on

18:15

Poshmark, I just like it. And

18:17

then like nine times out of

18:19

10, I get a special offer

18:21

on the piece. Oh, nice. Yeah.

18:23

It's always, you just show a

18:25

little bit of interest, but don't

18:28

give them anything else. Like

18:30

you can walk away. I'm glad you mentioned Poshmar

18:32

because this is something we're trying to

18:34

normalize with our kids and that's buying

18:36

secondhand, buying used. we have a store near

18:39

us called Value Village, which is actually

18:41

like a for-profit thrift store. It gets

18:43

kind of a unique business where the,

18:45

I think the owners are actually very, very

18:47

wealthy because if people donate stuff for

18:49

free and then they sell it, it's

18:51

like, well, that's a great business. But

18:53

you know, we find like nerf guns

18:55

and football jerseys and sporting equipment. Like

18:57

it's really, like they like it from like

18:59

the treasure hunt aspect and I like

19:01

it because it's kind of setting that

19:03

mindset that you buy has to be

19:05

brand new. Yeah, I try to

19:07

buy as much as possible

19:10

secondhand, not just because it

19:12

saves money, but also because

19:14

we have so much stuff

19:16

on our planet that we

19:18

have, I think the estimate

19:21

is we have enough clothing

19:23

already made to clothe the

19:25

next six generations of people.

19:27

And so if we can

19:29

stop that flow, we not

19:32

only are saving money. We

19:34

are, and these things are

19:36

more negotiable than something that

19:38

you would buy in Target

19:40

or Walmart, right? But we're

19:42

also cutting down on like

19:44

landfill, waste, clutter in our earth.

19:46

So it's just like there's

19:48

no reason to just not

19:51

think secondhand first. It doesn't

19:53

mean everything you buy has

19:55

to be secondhand, but if

19:57

we would just shift the

19:59

mindset. to being like, before I

20:01

buy anything, I use these four questions.

20:03

How can I get it for free?

20:05

So like a buy nothing group or

20:08

free on Facebook marketplace or from a

20:10

friend either trading or borrowing. If I

20:12

can't get it for free, how can

20:14

I get it for low cost? And

20:17

so that's where secondhand comes in. How

20:19

can I get it on Poshmark, eBay,

20:21

threat up? Can I buy it from

20:24

Facebook marketplace? Thrift store. If I can't.

20:26

get that and I don't spend a

20:28

ton of time searching for these. I'm,

20:30

you know, depending on how fast I

20:33

need something, I'm not searching for years,

20:35

right? Right. I'm just, I'm looking,

20:37

I'm trying to get creative before

20:39

I just first go out and buy it

20:41

new. If I can't get it low cost,

20:43

I ask how can I get a deal

20:46

on it? Like how soon is the

20:48

next sale cycle coming up? Because they

20:50

always come back around and then... If I

20:52

really need it and I can't wait

20:54

for a sale, how can I buy

20:57

full price and not feel guilty about

20:59

it? So is there a way I

21:01

can buy locally or sustainably? Something like

21:04

that. So those are the four questions

21:06

that I asked before I buy something

21:08

in order to save money. Yeah,

21:10

I know that's a good filter to

21:12

put a new purchase decision through and

21:15

I will add another layer of filtering,

21:17

which I just call the waiting

21:19

period. maybe it's 24 hours, maybe it's

21:21

30 days, and this is something that

21:23

I used to do quite a bit

21:26

more. So I just put a 30-day

21:28

waiting period on it, and you'll find

21:30

in a lot of cases that, you

21:32

know, obviously can't do this with food

21:35

in other essentials, but it's like for,

21:37

you know, something else, where it's like,

21:39

oh, that's nice to have. You probably

21:41

find that you lived a perfectly happy

21:44

existence for the 30 days in between, and

21:46

you're like, like, yeah. I don't really need

21:48

it anymore. Or I don't really want it

21:50

anymore. And if you find that you still

21:52

do want it, then by all means, like,

21:54

okay, go for it, knock yourself out. Yeah,

21:56

there's so much money to be made

21:58

in FinTech with like frictionless... payment and

22:00

getting us to impulse buy. Like all

22:03

an advertiser needs to do is show

22:05

up in your social media feed. You

22:07

have a pattern, right? You're just scrolling.

22:10

They just need to interrupt that pattern.

22:12

It's literally called a pattern interrupt. They

22:14

just need to interrupt it for 30

22:17

seconds to get your attention within if

22:19

they can get you to make a

22:21

purchase in 30 seconds, then they've got

22:23

you. you know, any more than 30 seconds, then we

22:26

check back in with ourselves and we're asking

22:28

ourselves that question. Right, right. Do I really need

22:30

this in my life? Right. And it's not necessarily out

22:32

to scam anybody. It's just like, hey, this is a

22:34

novelty product. Most of the time, our episodes are on

22:36

that pattern, interrupts side, where it's like, how do I

22:39

get people to buy my stuff? they just know

22:41

that's how your brains work. I know

22:43

if you're in any kind of marketing

22:45

with a side business, you are uniquely

22:47

equipped to avoid impulse spending even more.

22:50

I find that the longer I run

22:52

a business, the better I get at

22:54

resisting marketing, at least for things that

22:56

I don't need. Like I truly

22:58

love marketing for introducing me to

23:00

things that really do improve my

23:02

life, but I also know when

23:04

it's something that they're trying to

23:06

create a problem or create a

23:08

solution that I didn't need or

23:10

have before. Like, they are creating

23:12

it, so I buy something. Yeah, I've

23:14

had enough sales training that you

23:17

start to recognize it when other people

23:19

are using that stuff on you, and

23:21

it's not necessarily a turn

23:23

off, but you just like... Okay, I see I

23:26

see what you're doing here. Yeah, it makes sense

23:28

for us because we're in it But

23:30

there's so many people who don't know

23:32

what's going on and it's really not

23:34

their fault That's why we love talking

23:36

about it on frugal friends is so

23:38

that everybody can know What we already

23:40

know as business owners the next

23:42

money-saving hack that I want to

23:45

introduce is what I call the

23:47

substitution game. This is where you're

23:49

finding better faster-fast or cheaper all

23:51

lower cost alternatives to the stuff

23:53

you're already spending money on. This is

23:55

kind of borrowed from Rosemary Growner from

23:57

Busy Budgeter years ago. I was like,

23:59

well, you're targeting people who don't

24:01

have any money. Are you targeting like people

24:03

who were like trying to be really frugal

24:06

with their spending? Like didn't seem like a

24:08

great audience. And she was like, well, it's

24:10

a great audience because if you can show

24:12

them, hey, you're already spending money on this, have

24:14

you considered this better, cheaper alternative? It's, you

24:16

know, a natural affiliate recommendation to make that

24:18

switch. Oh, okay. You know. So one example

24:20

would be like Mitt Mobile Mobile in our

24:22

house, like, like I would say money on

24:24

your cell phone phone bill. But looking at

24:27

the things that you're already spending money,

24:29

like if it's been a while since

24:31

you've shopped for car insurance, like you're,

24:33

you keep paying the same rate, but

24:35

your cars have depreciated since you last,

24:37

you know, renegotiated that. So like different things

24:40

that you can kind of look at and

24:42

try and get the same service for lower

24:44

cost. Yeah, I did that recently with insurance.

24:46

And actually our insurance is coming up again.

24:48

So it is time to do it again.

24:51

But it's things that you're already buying buying

24:53

and need. I think it's good, always

24:55

good to like rethink if you

24:57

actually need it. And I do this

24:59

a lot with our streaming services to

25:02

say like, okay, is this actually

25:04

something I need? Because sometimes when

25:06

you take a break and you

25:08

come back in, then you get

25:11

like a new subscriber discount. So

25:13

sometimes just like canceling for six

25:15

months can save you even more

25:17

money again if you can't negotiate

25:19

it down. I saw this recently in

25:22

relation to Costco, it's kind

25:24

of like letting those membership slaps,

25:26

because maybe it's me two months

25:28

before we go back, or might be

25:30

before like it's the zoo or the

25:32

science center with the kids. It's like,

25:34

well, it doesn't need to be on

25:37

auto renew because we're not going to

25:39

go on that day. It's like, okay,

25:41

maybe that equates to 10% 20% savings.

25:43

And then to your point, oftentimes because

25:45

we've done factor done hello fresh and stuff

25:47

like this too for like this too for

25:49

like. meal, meal planning, make it easy. You

25:51

know, when you cancel, all of a sudden

25:54

they're like, you know, it's easier to re-acquire

25:56

a customer that you used to have to

25:58

get somebody completely cold so that like hey

26:00

come back you know have a half off your

26:02

next order so you see that quite often where

26:04

it's like okay just let it let it

26:07

lapse it's easy to just check the

26:09

auto renew but maybe there's some benefit

26:11

in in taking a pause the psychology

26:13

around the streaming services is really interesting

26:16

because they're all kind of between that

26:18

you know eight to twenty dollar range

26:20

where it's like intentionally designed to be

26:22

a very very small sliver of your

26:24

budget And so it's like, well, it's

26:26

almost more friction to cancel it than

26:29

it is to just let it ride.

26:31

But you're like, well, you know, did

26:33

we watch, how much Netflix did we

26:35

watch last month? Or how much Disney

26:37

Plus did we really use? There's some

26:39

interesting psychology around why people

26:41

don't cancel that. Oh, it's

26:43

too small to even make a dent. Yeah,

26:46

I think, and we also, we believe that

26:48

any change we have to make is

26:50

permanent. truly nothing is permanent.

26:52

So my co-host Jill, when

26:54

before they owned a home,

26:56

they lived in an RV

26:58

for a couple years. And

27:00

they never intended for that

27:02

to be a permanent lifestyle.

27:04

Like they were not RV

27:06

YouTubeers who built a brand

27:08

around being digital nomads, right?

27:10

They literally did it. to

27:12

save money on their living

27:14

expenses for two years. And

27:16

that's how we ended up

27:18

meeting them, because they just

27:20

took advantage of living in an RV

27:22

to take a road trip down to

27:24

Florida. So, so many of the things

27:26

we think of, or maybe it's not

27:29

having a car, a second car, or

27:31

a car at all, as maybe you

27:33

skip out for six months or nine

27:35

months, and just take an e-bite, or

27:37

you're a one-family car. Nothing that you

27:39

do to save money has to be

27:41

permanent, has to be permanent. But if

27:44

it's worth the money you will save

27:46

for however long you do it, that

27:48

could make a big dent in your

27:50

future goals. Yeah, we have

27:52

strongly considered becoming a one-car

27:55

household in this interim

27:57

period where the kids are, you

27:59

know, pre- driver's license age because

28:01

it's like the insurance carrying cost

28:03

sits at the driveway most of

28:05

the time not getting used and sometimes

28:07

well now we got to jumpstart the

28:09

battery and stuff but you kind of

28:11

have to do that math well how

28:13

much would you spend on Uber or Lyft

28:16

like on those very few occasions where

28:18

you really did need two cars like

28:20

and does that outweigh the cost so

28:22

there's kind of questioning to your point

28:24

some of the bigger ticket items in

28:26

your life. Definitely. So I

28:28

think my next recommendation, and

28:31

it's one that I've been

28:33

talking about for years and

28:35

have been delighted to be

28:37

talking more about in 2025

28:39

because it is a hot

28:42

topic is no spend challenges.

28:44

So I know like stopping spending money

28:46

is extreme right so I don't

28:49

I don't necessarily recommend it but

28:51

it is it's a gateway drug

28:53

to saving sustainably so if you're

28:56

interested in it it's not bad

28:58

but I love talking about no-spend

29:00

challenges which is you know

29:03

extreme but it's extreme for a

29:05

short amount of time yeah and

29:07

it's not extreme just for the

29:09

sake of being extreme but so

29:11

like when We were talking at

29:13

the top of the episode about

29:15

looking at what you spent in

29:17

the past and making a plan

29:19

for what you will spend in

29:21

a future or spending plan or

29:23

budget. There is this real-time period

29:25

between that. And that's where

29:27

a no-spend challenge can really help

29:30

you get a handle on your

29:32

expenses. It goes beyond like

29:34

the subscriptions and the

29:36

automations and all that and gives

29:38

you a really big insight into

29:40

What are my spending habits? What

29:42

am I spending on without thinking?

29:45

What am I taking for granted

29:47

that I have to spend on

29:49

to meet a need when I

29:51

could really get creative and meet

29:53

that need for free or lower

29:56

cost? So I like to recommend

29:58

doing at least one note. 30-day

30:00

no-spend challenge, maybe you're starting

30:02

out getting a hold of

30:05

your expenses, maybe you're kind

30:07

of recommitting yourself. Doing 30

30:09

days is enough. Like yes,

30:11

there are books written about

30:14

people doing no-spend challenges for

30:16

a year, no-by-low-by years. That's

30:18

fine if you want to write

30:20

a book about your experience. But

30:23

if you want to just get

30:25

a handle on your spending, and

30:27

start to retrain some of your

30:30

dopamine receptors to go towards... other

30:32

dopamine-producing habits versus automatically going

30:34

to scrolling the Amazon app

30:36

or going to Target or

30:38

any of these shopping-induced dopamine

30:40

receptor things, 30 days really

30:42

is enough. So I read

30:44

while we were writing by

30:46

What You Love Without Going

30:48

Broke, I was reading dopamine

30:51

Nation by Anne Lemke and

30:53

she was, she worked with

30:55

people with all kinds of

30:57

addictions. And the first thing

30:59

she would do is put

31:01

them on a quote unquote

31:04

dopamine fast. And they're not

31:06

really fasting dopamine, you need

31:08

dopamine, but the thing is

31:10

that you can, if you

31:13

abstain from what is creating

31:15

these dopamine-inducing actions, these quote

31:17

unquote addictions, if you

31:19

abstain for four weeks, one month,

31:22

30 days, whatever. The first

31:24

two weeks are very hard. The

31:26

first week actually is the easiest,

31:28

the second week is the hardest.

31:31

But after two weeks, you start

31:33

to see a difference in where

31:36

you're getting your dopamine hits

31:38

and how you're getting them.

31:40

And after four weeks, you can

31:42

truly see a change to where

31:44

if I'm stressed, I can go

31:47

towards something that will actually

31:49

treat the root cause of the

31:51

stress instead of stress, which is

31:53

just a habit. So that's what

31:56

I love about the no-spend challenges for

31:58

that right there to start paying attention

32:00

to spending habits and starting to

32:02

change them versus just how much

32:05

money you'll save of not spending

32:07

for four weeks. Yeah, we had some

32:09

friends recently go through this. We

32:11

did not participate for full disclosure.

32:13

They were allowed to buy produce

32:15

and stuff, but otherwise it was like

32:17

trying to eat out of the pantry,

32:19

eat out of the freezer. And it's

32:21

interesting, did she mention week two is

32:23

the hardest? really aligns with the New

32:26

Year's resolution data that like what is

32:28

it January 12th is quit day it's

32:30

like that's you know the first week

32:32

like motivation is really strong okay I

32:34

got this to the week two it

32:36

starts to wait a little bit and

32:38

then by the end of week two

32:41

it's like yeah forget it I just

32:43

go back to my old habits and

32:45

it's like that's it's really interesting here

32:47

and my guess is because I've done like

32:49

24 or 36 hour fasts, but not much

32:51

longer than that. And it makes you kind

32:53

of notice what you're missing. It makes

32:55

you really grateful that you're not doing

32:58

that most of the time. But it's

33:00

kind of trying to figure out those little

33:02

emotional points where, oh, I normally

33:05

would have bought this, or I normally

33:07

would have eaten this, or I normally

33:09

would have spent that. And I think

33:11

that's really interesting. A little bit extreme,

33:13

but maybe it kick starts, or

33:15

build some awareness around where your

33:17

money's going. Yeah, so we talk

33:20

about finding the radical middle, because

33:22

everybody loves to live in extremes,

33:24

because they're really easy to market

33:26

and talk about, they go viral,

33:28

but where true sustainability

33:31

lies is in the radical middle.

33:33

And we can find our radical

33:35

middle by visiting extremes and learning

33:37

about them, but we don't want

33:39

to live in them. And that's

33:41

kind of what a no-spend challenges,

33:43

right? Like, it's extreme. It helps

33:45

you realize, okay, what's the thing

33:48

that I can't stop thinking about

33:50

wanting to spend on? Because you're

33:53

right, I've done 24-hour fasts too,

33:55

and I think about food way more than

33:57

I would if I was not, like, on

33:59

a fast. And so people when they

34:01

think about cutting out costs, they think

34:03

about the most important things to them

34:06

and like, oh, but I don't want

34:08

to give up this. And usually that's

34:10

the last thing you should give up.

34:13

And a no-spend challenge can help you

34:15

figure out, okay, what are the things

34:17

that I am constantly thinking about that

34:19

I really truly miss? And then you

34:22

check back with that transaction inventory and

34:24

you're like, oh, I didn't even think

34:26

about this, yet I'm always spending on

34:29

it. So I can just draw a line

34:31

in the sand now and say I'm not

34:33

going to spend on this anymore. So I

34:35

really love it for that aspect. More money-saving

34:37

hacks with Jen in just a

34:40

moment, including cash versus credit cards,

34:42

some helpful browser extensions, and how

34:44

to take control and stop playing

34:47

defense with willpower all day long, right

34:49

after this. Years ago, I was sitting

34:51

in a conference in Santa Barbara,

34:53

and the presenter asked this question.

34:55

Are you working on your business,

34:57

or are you working in your business? And

34:59

at that point, I'd already quit my job.

35:01

I saw myself as a full-time entrepreneur, but

35:04

it was this moment of clarity that

35:06

no, I'm still very much working in the

35:08

business. So when I got back home, that's

35:10

when I made my first full-time hire. It

35:12

was the first in a long series of

35:15

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35:17

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36:02

and conditions apply, hiring, indeed is

36:04

all you need. Some businesses are

36:06

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36:09

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36:11

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36:13

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36:16

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Mint Mobile for details. What

37:14

do you think about this one? Because

37:16

I have been very pro credit card

37:18

rewards. We have banked. thousands of

37:21

dollars worth of cash back and

37:23

free flights around the world, like

37:25

it has been, you know, almost a part

37:27

of our identity to, you know,

37:29

take advantage of these credit card

37:31

bonuses, but there's some pretty compelling

37:34

data that says people spend more

37:36

and consistently more and

37:39

significantly more when they're using

37:41

credit cards instead of cash.

37:43

If you have a spending plan, you

37:45

can use credit cards really responsibly

37:48

and take advantage of all the

37:50

benefits that they have to offer.

37:52

I love credit cards for the

37:54

safety they afford you when you're

37:57

making transactions for all of the

37:59

flight and hotel. benefits, I love

38:01

them. But you have to be

38:03

working on a plan because sometimes

38:05

I've done this before when you're

38:07

consumed about getting to those like minimum

38:09

spends to get the bonus or

38:11

whatever, you can just throw something

38:13

else on the credit card because

38:15

you're like, oh I'll make it

38:17

up with the points I get,

38:19

which really isn't. And then your

38:21

points just sit there like in

38:23

perpetuity because you have so many

38:25

and you can't take off time.

38:28

for work to travel for six

38:30

months with all your points.

38:32

So being very intentional

38:35

with a spending plan can

38:37

help you really get the most

38:39

out of credit card usage

38:41

and put into perspective, okay,

38:43

what is enough? Like what

38:45

vacations am I trying to

38:48

take? How many points do

38:50

I need to get there?

38:52

And do I have to

38:54

hoard points just because I can?

38:57

Yeah, you can't take them with you

38:59

and they get them devalued year after

39:01

year, so use them up. And we do

39:03

think cash is important for the

39:05

kids, especially a younger one, to

39:07

see that physical transaction,

39:09

the money leaving his hands. For

39:11

me, it's almost the opposite. It feels

39:13

like it's free because I know it's

39:15

not going to hit the account. I'm

39:17

not going to see it on my

39:20

statement. It's just like, oh, here's 20

39:22

bucks. Sure. But it's, you know,

39:24

there's some interesting psychology around

39:26

cash versus cards. Yeah, I

39:28

definitely think it's wise, like

39:30

when you're starting out. And if

39:32

you believe you do have a

39:34

real problem with overspending, just lock

39:36

the credit cards for a few

39:39

months and just use cash. It

39:41

is a good short-term exercise. On

39:43

the shopping side, going back

39:45

to getting the best deal,

39:47

I like the site cashback

39:49

monitor. I like racquetan. Do

39:52

you have any other tools,

39:54

tips, you know, for deal

39:56

finding or cashback here? Yeah,

39:58

I've been into... C-Net shopping

40:01

lately. It's one of those

40:03

like price trackers, so you

40:05

can see if something is

40:07

less expensive on another site.

40:10

I use Benny, B-E-N-I. So

40:12

that is a site that

40:14

helps, well, it's a browser

40:16

extension. And so like if

40:19

I'm on, if I see

40:21

somebody wearing a cute Lulu

40:23

lemon sweatshirt, I can look

40:25

it up on the Lulu

40:28

lemon. website and then the

40:30

Benny browser extension, I click

40:32

that and I can find

40:35

the sweatshirt on secondhand

40:37

sites like Poshmark,

40:39

Threatup, eBay, Real, all

40:42

of those resale sites. It

40:44

will look at that particular

40:46

new item and find it

40:48

all over the internet secondhand. And

40:51

so I actually love that. It

40:53

saves me way more than like

40:56

any rebate app because I'm saving

40:58

50% on things that are even

41:00

new with tags. Okay, cool. Benny

41:02

Adden, that's a new one to me.

41:04

Well, we can link that up in the

41:07

show notes. Jem, it does a similar

41:09

thing with if you're more

41:11

into like vintage and higher

41:13

end stuff, it's similar to

41:15

Benny, but for more like

41:17

vintage clothing. That's GM. Jim Search,

41:19

I think. I'm not 100% sure.

41:22

I am not super fashion forward.

41:24

So I just use Benny. Got

41:26

it. Cool. And then, nor am

41:28

I. So yeah. Just buy clothes

41:31

from and then just, well, that

41:33

that fit well. So buy another

41:35

one of those at a different

41:38

color or something. I will, I

41:40

will go to like stores and

41:42

try on jeans and if I

41:44

find the brand and size I

41:46

like, then I will. then go

41:48

and buy them online secondhand. And I'll

41:50

just keep buying the ones that I know

41:52

fit me. Yeah, exactly. It's hard to

41:55

find. Hard to find if something that

41:57

fits. I will say I have a

41:59

transition. to spending more up front

42:01

for hopefully better quality stuff

42:04

than rather wearing out the pair

42:06

of old Navy shorts in six months

42:08

or something. So, you know, what's like

42:10

the buy it for life or you

42:12

know, these brands that hopefully a little

42:14

more durable or longer lasting. So

42:16

sometimes it's, what do they call

42:19

it? It's like a penny wise

42:21

pound foolish or something like. you know,

42:23

single ply, you end up using

42:25

moor. There's certain ones where you're

42:27

just, yeah, it looks cheaper on

42:29

the surface because it's not going

42:31

to last. Yeah, that's one of

42:33

the problems with having a frugal

42:35

living podcast is that people will

42:38

come up to Jill and I

42:40

and brag about how cheap they

42:42

got their clothing or how cheap

42:44

they got something. And then I'm like,

42:46

yeah, but did you need it? And is

42:48

it going to last? Like I think those

42:50

things I obviously do not say

42:52

them out loud, but that is

42:54

always what I think it's always

42:57

People bragging about what they got

42:59

what they could consume Instead

43:01

of like bragging about I didn't

43:04

consume this or I didn't buy

43:06

anything on Amazon for you know

43:08

six months or stuff like that

43:10

is what I would love to

43:12

hear our listeners brag about and

43:15

anybody I would love to hear

43:17

that from anybody And you got to

43:19

value your time too. It's some friends who

43:21

were very proficient Facebook marketplace, Craigslist

43:24

choppers, but sometimes it'd be. you

43:26

know, driving two hours each way

43:28

to go pick up this thing.

43:30

It's like, well, how much did

43:32

you really save there? You know,

43:35

I don't know. It's like, you

43:37

just spent a lot of time

43:39

negotiating the steel and I hope

43:41

it was a big enough transaction.

43:43

And for big transactions, it makes

43:45

sense. But for little stuff, it's

43:48

like, sometimes it is just

43:50

better, faster, easier to just click

43:52

the Amazon button and have it

43:54

show up at your door. And

43:57

that. includes time, your physical...

43:59

So not like cluttering

44:01

up your space with a

44:04

bunch of free stuff or

44:06

cheap stuff from Craigslist. It's

44:08

about your mental energy and

44:11

natural resources too. So it's

44:13

about stewarding all these limited

44:15

resources well. That makes sense. One

44:18

limited resource is attention. You like

44:20

that transition. The hack that I

44:22

want to share is to... either

44:24

not sign up for marketing emails

44:26

from different stores or brands in

44:28

the first place, or you can

44:30

unsubscribe from them if it is

44:32

becoming a problem. What I tend

44:34

to do from the stores that

44:36

I actually shop from, like REI and

44:39

some of these other ones, even like

44:41

Pizza, like Papa Murphy's and stuff, like

44:43

goes into this special folder that I

44:45

don't really see, but when it's time to order,

44:47

when I'm in the market for something, I can

44:49

go through and see if they sent me

44:51

any deals recently. It's like out of sight,

44:54

out of mind, but... I'm still in

44:56

control rather than like, oh,

44:58

there's a sale going on.

45:00

Or oh, it's like, well, I don't

45:02

need to see that because I

45:04

wasn't going to buy it. That's

45:07

the game that they want to

45:09

play. It's like kind of create

45:11

more purchase activity. But it's like,

45:13

I want to do that on

45:15

my own terms. And so I

45:17

just have a bunch of filters

45:20

set up in Gmail.me. and it

45:22

sends you a daily roll-up of

45:24

all your marketing emails. And you

45:26

can unsubscribe from within, or you

45:29

can choose to look at the

45:31

email or not look at the

45:33

email. It has all of them

45:35

in just in one list, and

45:37

it has an app. I've been

45:40

using that for easily 10 years.

45:42

And yeah, I get to be in

45:44

control. I get to save when I

45:46

want to, and unsubscribe

45:48

when I'm done. Yeah, absolutely. I

45:50

look at my wife's inbox and it's like

45:52

thousands and thousands of messages. It's like,

45:55

can I help clean this up for

45:57

you? But she generally does okay with

45:59

the impulse by. But it's like, it's

46:01

somewhat exhausting to be playing defense

46:03

with willpower all day long. And

46:06

you've seen this with food or

46:08

with the bombardment of different marketing

46:11

messages. And so you kind of

46:13

have to build these little

46:15

guardrails around yourself. Yeah, you definitely

46:17

have to remove the temptation. It's

46:20

so much easier to not have

46:22

it in front of you than

46:24

it is to decide. to make

46:26

a good decision. Like we always

46:28

say work with your brain, not

46:30

against it. Your brain wants to

46:33

take the path of least resistance.

46:35

So let it, but you have

46:37

to put up the guardrails so

46:39

that path doesn't like derail you

46:41

from your financial goals. So we

46:44

use atomic habits, James Clears like

46:46

habit triggers, the cues. And so

46:48

like, is it the person I'm

46:50

with or is it the place

46:53

that I'm heading to or coming

46:55

from? Is it the time of

46:57

day? So we look at these

47:00

cues and we're like, okay,

47:02

can I change anything about

47:04

these to remove the temptation?

47:06

And that works so much

47:08

better than trying to rely

47:10

on yourself to make the

47:12

good decision every time because by

47:14

three p. It's, you're just

47:17

done. You're just done. That's

47:19

and no amount like you don't

47:21

need to be stronger. Like I

47:24

think we can feel guilty for

47:26

our lack of you know, quote

47:28

unquote self-discipline or discernment or whatever,

47:31

but our body's literally designed to

47:33

do this for our brain. So

47:36

work with your brain, not against

47:38

it. Yeah, remove the temptation. And some of

47:40

the things, it might be ordering delivery, like

47:42

a grocery delivery. It saves you from making

47:44

impulse buys in the store. Like we've started

47:46

doing a lot of target pickup, which for

47:48

me, it's like, it's gonna, it's only a

47:50

few things. Like, let me just go in,

47:52

it's gonna be faster than sitting here waiting

47:54

on somebody to bring out this stuff. Like,

47:56

it feels silly, like, I'll just go pick

47:59

it up, but. I would probably say buddy

48:01

by not going into the store and

48:03

saying, oh, what else is it here

48:05

that we need? That jumps into the

48:08

cart. Absolutely. I was thinking, I'm like,

48:10

why do I do this? And I

48:12

think part of it is like if

48:14

I'm going to target for one thing,

48:16

I'm already there, so it would be

48:18

an inefficient use of my time to

48:20

not walk around to see if there's

48:22

anything else I need, because then I

48:25

would have to go back and I don't

48:27

want to go back. That's where

48:29

I end up impulse buying

48:31

something. Instead of if I had just

48:33

walked in to get the one thing

48:35

and walked out. So part of

48:37

it I think is an efficiency

48:39

thing for me. And so yeah,

48:41

I've been doing Walmart grocery pickup

48:43

for years since I had my

48:45

first son and he was just

48:47

impossible to go grocery

48:49

shopping with. All right. The next

48:52

one on my list is to

48:54

get an accountability partner. I think

48:56

if you're trying to. cutback spending

48:58

and all your friends don't know about this

49:00

or they're going to think you're all of

49:03

a sudden this wet blanket who doesn't want

49:05

to do anything anymore. I think it's helpful

49:07

to have somebody else in your corner who's

49:09

on the same journey who's rooting for you.

49:12

I remember years ago Tiffany, the budget Nista,

49:14

she said this was like day one of

49:16

her 30 day live richer challenge day one,

49:18

get yourself an accountability partner and from the

49:20

business and growth and marketing standpoint

49:23

like. Well, this is fantastic. You just

49:25

doubled the size of your audience,

49:27

you know, on day one. This

49:29

is great. But from the personal,

49:31

like, stick with it, this factor,

49:33

you gotta have somebody else who... who

49:36

can support you and say, no, no, no,

49:38

we're in this together. I remember even on

49:40

the health and fitness side, like we would

49:42

come home from work early in our careers

49:44

and be like, well, we said we were

49:46

going to go for a run, but it

49:48

would be easier if one person's thinking, I

49:50

don't really want to go, like, no, no,

49:52

we're going to back each other up, we're going

49:54

to go do this. Yeah, you have to, it

49:57

takes a village, and we've gotten so far away

49:59

from that. ideology, it's hard to

50:01

find a village now. If

50:03

you want to succeed in

50:05

anything financially, business, health, you

50:08

do have to surround yourself

50:10

with people who have the

50:12

same goals. So they don't

50:14

necessarily have to be on

50:16

the same path, but they

50:18

at least have to be

50:20

genuinely supportive of the path

50:22

that you're on. And I

50:24

had to... stop hanging out or

50:27

talking to some people when I was

50:29

paying off debt. And I hang out

50:31

with them now. It's not like I

50:34

cut them off totally from my

50:36

life because they were toxic or

50:38

something. They just weren't good for

50:40

me in that period of time.

50:43

And so being really honoring

50:45

your season and whatever

50:47

you're trying to accomplish

50:49

and really making a point to

50:51

create community around you

50:53

to support that. is truly

50:56

going to make or break. I don't think,

50:58

I know I would not have paid

51:00

off my student loans if I hadn't

51:02

had my husband there, like, when we were

51:04

working together on it. Like, I

51:06

just, I was not interested in it.

51:08

Do you have any recommendations for

51:11

maybe one partner in a relationship

51:13

is the spender and the other is

51:15

the savor, like, how do you kind

51:17

of bridge that gap and get buy-in

51:19

from a spouse or partner? First,

51:21

I think the spender and savver...

51:24

like personality types are

51:26

a myth. I think

51:28

everybody spends and everybody

51:31

would save if they had

51:33

enough incentive. Like if you

51:35

were gonna die tomorrow unless

51:37

you made $5,000, like you'd

51:39

find a way to make

51:41

that money, right? So everybody

51:43

can do it. Right. Theoretically.

51:46

But not everybody has

51:48

the same values and wants

51:50

the same things. So it

51:53

might look like, and people

51:55

don't think that they are

51:57

sometimes capable or deserve them.

51:59

things that they truly want in

52:02

life. Like we think we deserve

52:04

small things and so we'll go

52:06

after small things and those are

52:08

the things that are typically marketed

52:10

to us, but big things like

52:12

retiring in your 50s or even

52:14

in your 60s or starting like

52:16

going full-time in a business or

52:18

stuff like that. Sometimes we don't

52:20

think that we can get that

52:22

because that would take so much

52:24

of our time and so much

52:27

effort. We sacrifice these bigger things

52:29

that we actually want to just

52:31

take the smaller things. And when

52:33

we recognize what our partner actually

52:35

wants in life and we start

52:37

to have those big higher level

52:39

conversations, that's when we can start

52:41

to honor what this person would

52:43

actually say for what would give

52:45

my partner incentive to save. What

52:47

is the thing that they really...

52:49

do want in life and would

52:51

save for. Because that was what

52:53

happened with me. I didn't want

52:56

to pay off her debt, but

52:58

I did want to eventually foster,

53:00

and that involves a lot of

53:02

time, a lot of time investment.

53:04

And it's easier to invest that

53:06

time if work is optional for

53:08

me. And if I have a

53:10

$700 debt payment every month, work

53:12

is not optional for me. So

53:14

that became the catalyst for why

53:16

I wanted to pay off the

53:18

debt. him just being a good

53:20

idea or something I'm quote unquote

53:22

supposed to do or something that

53:25

my spouse wanted me to do

53:27

was not enough for me. I

53:29

had to connect it to what

53:31

I really wanted and so you

53:33

have to find the thing that

53:35

your partner really wants enough to

53:37

stop spending on the small things

53:39

to focus on the big things.

53:41

Yeah getting on the same page

53:43

in alignment with that big picture

53:45

goal. What do you know what

53:47

do you envision for our life?

53:49

Like what having that And the

53:51

goalposts may move, but having some

53:54

sort of destination in mind rather

53:56

than just... saving for the sake

53:58

of saving, I think that can

54:00

be really important or maybe that's

54:02

something that we found helpful early

54:04

on in our journey and recognizing

54:06

it's a team sport. Like we

54:08

gotta have some buy in here,

54:10

but having that big picture why

54:12

it's important on the saving side,

54:14

it's important on the side, also

54:16

side too, because it's like the

54:18

going is gonna get tough, you're

54:20

gonna wanna quit, it's like what's

54:23

that driving motivation behind it? And

54:25

it's kind of, it's the. different

54:27

side of the same coin. It's

54:29

like, well, yeah, everybody says they

54:31

want to sign up to make

54:33

extra money. But why? Like, what

54:35

does that afford you? Like, going

54:37

three or four layers deep, and

54:39

if you have a spouse or

54:41

partner in the picture, then that

54:43

can be really important, too. Yeah.

54:45

Anything else on your list? I

54:47

think that we... at least for

54:49

me and I think this might

54:52

be for a lot of personal

54:54

finance nerds we are so we

54:56

are so quick to move the

54:58

goal post we hit one goal

55:00

and then we just you know

55:02

move it back and we're already

55:04

on to the next without recognizing

55:06

what we've done and celebrating that

55:08

so really taking time after we

55:10

achieve a goal like what did

55:12

I struggle through so that I

55:14

don't forget that and then what

55:16

was really easy for me that

55:18

I thought wasn't going to be

55:21

easy. And so all of these

55:23

things reflecting on the journey so

55:25

that the next time you're trying

55:27

to accomplish something and you're not

55:29

sure if you can do it,

55:31

you can actually look back at

55:33

what you did the last time

55:35

and be encouraged. And these successes

55:37

and pushing through setbacks. they all

55:39

compound on themselves so the goals

55:41

that you reach can be bigger

55:43

and bigger. That's right keep leveling

55:45

up that's the name of the

55:47

game and I do want to

55:50

add a point here that like

55:52

as you were income increases as

55:54

your side hustle starts to grow,

55:56

as you level up in your

55:58

career, like some level of lifestyle

56:00

creep, lifestyle inflation is recommended. That's

56:02

kind of the point, right? Like

56:04

you reward yourself. You know, make

56:06

things easier on yourself. Enjoy the

56:08

fruits of your labor. Tim Ferris

56:10

has this line about, well, how

56:12

can I waste money to improve

56:14

my quality of life? And I

56:16

think that waistline is really important

56:19

because it allows you to acknowledge

56:21

that it's not necessary. Like yes,

56:23

it's an upgrade. Yes, it seems

56:25

frivolous based on my, you know,

56:27

years of frugal habits. So I'm

56:29

going to acknowledge that it's a

56:31

waste, but it's worth it because

56:33

it's going to make life better

56:35

or easier in some way. Yeah,

56:37

lifestyle inflation is not bad, as

56:39

long as it's proportionate to your

56:41

income inflation and it aligns with

56:43

what you truly value and what

56:45

your goals are. Very good. Jen,

56:48

this has been awesome. Congrats on

56:50

the book launch. Again, buy What

56:52

You Love without going broke. Buy

56:54

what you love book.com. Make sure

56:56

to grab a copy. Make sure

56:58

to check out the Frugal Friends

57:00

podcast. Now you've got other side

57:02

hustles, other projects, self-publishing, print on

57:04

demand. What are you working on

57:06

this year? Oh, this year is

57:08

all about YouTube. We are definitely

57:10

diving more into video. It's that

57:12

one thing that I think. will

57:14

make other things easier or unnecessary

57:17

in the future. Oh, I like

57:19

that line. Yeah, we are starting

57:21

a couple different YouTube segments for

57:23

the podcast and I'm even starting

57:25

to post more on my personal

57:27

YouTube channel. Well, it's called Modern

57:29

Frugality, so it's not like personal

57:31

personal, but there are just some

57:33

things where I'm like, I'm just,

57:35

I'm going to post more on

57:37

YouTube, I'm going to get over

57:39

my fear of not... being not

57:41

feeling camera ready, not feeling camera

57:43

worthy and just just try it.

57:46

Very good. Modern Frugality will link

57:48

that up as well along with

57:50

friends and the book, By What

57:52

You Love, without growing broke, what's

57:54

that one thing that will make

57:56

things easier or unnecessary? I love

57:58

that line. Now we've been talking

58:00

about saving money in this episode,

58:02

but as you know, there's only

58:04

so much you can cut. But

58:06

your earning power on the other

58:08

side is limitless, which is why

58:10

we've got over 650 episodes dedicated

58:12

to that topic. If you're not

58:14

sure where to start, I want

58:17

to invite you to grab your

58:19

personalized side hustle show play list.

58:21

All you got to do is

58:23

go to hustle dot show. Answer

58:25

a few short, multiple choice questions,

58:27

and it'll recommend 8 to 10

58:29

episodes to start with. based on

58:31

your answers. Again, that's at hustle.show.

58:33

Big thanks to Jen for sharing

58:35

her insight. Big thanks to our

58:37

sponsors for helping make this content

58:39

free for everyone. You can hit

58:41

up side hustle nation.com/deals for all

58:43

the latest offers from our sponsors

58:46

in one place. That is it

58:48

for me. Thank you so much

58:50

for tuning in. Until next time,

58:52

let's go out there and make

58:54

something happen. And I'll catch you

58:56

in the next edition of the

58:58

side hustle show. Hustle on.