0:00

This is the Silver Fox Hustle Football

0:02

Talk . Hi

0:29

, this is the latest episode of Football Talk

0:32

with the Silver Fox Hustle Podcast . Subscribe , follow

0:34

us . We are out everywhere Apple

0:36

Podcast , spotify , youtube , you

0:38

name it so just click on the follow button Now

0:40

. Today , we've got a very interesting topic to talk

0:43

about and we want to talk about technology

0:45

in football , and let me give you an example

0:47

. You know the sports

0:51

bra looking thing underneath the players jerseys

0:53

. That's something that we're going to talk

0:55

about today and together

0:58

with myself and we've got someone

1:00

from Catapult Right I'm

1:02

sure you guys have seen it on television the

1:05

brand Catapult and together with

1:07

myself , here is the commercial director

1:10

of Catapult Sports and to

1:12

talk about powerful

1:14

video and monitoring solutions to capture

1:16

, analyze , plan and share every aspect

1:19

of football performance . And with me today

1:21

is Mr Benoit Cressard . Hello

1:23

, shashi , how are you doing ? I'm good , I'm good

1:25

. And listen , if

1:27

you don't already know who Benoit is , he

1:30

is very familiar . He has

1:32

been in Singapore for a very long time . He's

1:35

played the game , the professional game , many

1:39

places right Holland , egypt , china

1:41

, even England , england as well and

1:45

obviously he ended up in Singapore with Temporis Rovers

1:47

, my friend . How was Temporis

1:50

Rovers ?

1:51

A great experience . So

1:55

the reason why I came in that region

1:57

is because , first of all , my wife

1:59

she didn't want to stay in the Middle East region

2:01

as a first thing , so we were

2:03

looking for something different . So we

2:05

didn't have kids at that point of time . Oh

2:07

, you didn't .

2:08

No , we didn't have kids .

2:13

And what happened is I get contacted by someone

2:15

Sasi Kumar , asking

2:17

me if I would be keen to play here in Singapore

2:19

, and Singapore was the best place

2:22

for us . Why ? It's

2:25

because I didn't want to go back to Europe . My wife

2:27

thought that

2:29

Singapore was a great place to leave to

2:32

work as well . I could continue

2:34

my studies and we made the

2:36

choice to come here , and we are now living here for the

2:38

past 15 years .

2:40

My kids are born here , so they're Singaporeans

2:42

.

2:43

They are yeah , more than I am .

2:46

I've seen them . They play football as well . And then

2:48

great your time at Temporis

2:51

, right ? How was it Football

2:53

wise ?

2:55

Yeah , yeah , yeah . So getting back to your question for Temporis

2:57

, so it was a great experience because Temporis

2:59

was , at the point of time , one

3:01

of the best clubs in

3:04

that league . The owner was

3:06

very influential and

3:09

it convinced me also

3:11

to come here and play in Singapore . So the

3:14

luck that I had is to win . We won

3:16

like two championships . We

3:18

played the Asian

3:20

Football Confederation Cup . We did pretty

3:23

well quarterfinals in . Iraq

3:25

. It was a fantastic experience

3:27

and I would say that , living in Singapore

3:29

playing for Temporis , winning titles , and

3:32

again now we don't see many people

3:34

watching games , but at that point of time , in 2008

3:37

, 2009 , we still had like three

3:39

to four thousand spectators

3:42

every game . So we were playing

3:44

the old stadium and it was amazing

3:46

. I mean , you felt that you were a football player

3:48

at the point of time .

3:51

Was it difficult to hang your boots

3:53

with Red ?

3:56

That's a good question and I have this question a lot and

3:58

you are former footballer you know so we

4:00

had different opinions on that . To

4:02

me , no , not at all . Not

4:05

at all . I do not regret . I

4:08

had prepared myself . I had

4:10

anticipated everything for

4:13

that day . So I

4:15

hang up my boots at the age of 32

4:17

. I had still a few opportunities , even in the

4:19

region , even one in Australia , but

4:22

it was a good time to stop

4:24

. I had just finished my master's degree

4:26

in sports business . I

4:30

had already two companies in Singapore

4:32

, so I had tried really to make sure

4:34

that I was ready for it and

4:36

it was 2012 . We

4:39

won the championship . I scored

4:41

probably the best goal of my career in the last

4:43

game or

4:47

the last game , I think but

4:49

I wanted to stop

4:51

. I wanted to stop . My wife was happy

4:54

, since the age of 13

4:56

, being in that industry , it was

4:59

I had enough of it .

5:00

I think it all seems perfect , like

5:02

the perfect time to stop . You

5:07

got it planned as well . I think that's very

5:09

important for football players . Again

5:12

, we can talk about football and we are digressing . We

5:14

want to talk about technology , but we are talking a little bit about

5:16

it , but it's okay . I think

5:18

the planning part is so , so important

5:20

for footballers .

5:21

I agree 100% . This

5:23

is really something that I'm always trying to communicate

5:26

to ex-footballers or current

5:28

footballers , because those are the most important

5:30

guys to talk to . I

5:33

had the luck because I was from a very small

5:35

village . I was not from a city

5:37

. So very small village , not lots

5:40

of exposure in our time , no

5:42

TV , no videos , nothing . I

5:45

got recruited by this academy

5:47

it was the National Center of Fairfonte . Play

5:49

for the national team , played

5:51

in eight countries . Yes

5:53

, if you want me to rate my football career

5:55

, it was great . It

5:58

was great enough . It was my

6:00

level , not a league one player , probably a good

6:02

league . Two players in France , not

6:04

better than that . I

6:06

had a very critical mindset

6:08

about myself Really

6:11

were so important for me . My father . When

6:13

I signed my first professional contract in

6:16

league one , I was forbidden

6:19

by my father to train twice a day because

6:21

I had to go to school and get my baccalaureate

6:23

my A-level . Without that , I

6:26

couldn't train twice a day . Once I had

6:28

it , I had the same deal . By learning distance

6:30

I managed to get it . My father said no , you can go , because

6:33

you can't join any university . That's

6:35

how I had this mindset of really being

6:37

critical , knowing that football is short

6:40

career and I understand that

6:42

very quickly . I was very lucky .

6:43

Brilliant . I think that mindset is

6:46

so , so brilliant . And we talk about critical thinking

6:48

and stuff . We're going to talk about something that's critical

6:50

. I think I'm sure you think

6:52

as well , because you are in the business right Now

6:54

. Let's talk about Catapult . What

6:57

Catapult is all about ? Let

6:59

us all know about it .

7:01

Okay , so Catapult

7:03

is , first of all , the

7:06

only publicly listed company

7:08

in that technology industry

7:10

. So we are now in

7:13

the stock exchange in Australia , so

7:15

we are the only ones . So basically what it

7:17

is is we are fully SaaS company

7:19

, subscription company . Everything is about subscription

7:22

. So that's the first thing . So we

7:24

operate in over

7:26

100 countries

7:28

. We

7:35

have over 400 stuff based across

7:38

, I would say , 200 countries

7:40

and we

7:42

work with 40 different sports and

7:45

we work with client in 100

7:48

different countries . So we provide

7:50

. What we do at Catapult is providing

7:53

solution that help

7:55

optimizing the performance of the players

7:57

, minimizing injuries

7:59

and speeding up rehabilitation

8:02

process . So , this is what

8:04

it is about .

8:05

Brilliant , brilliant . And

8:07

you talk about football , technology right , and

8:09

then you work playing professionally

8:12

many years back . How

8:14

different is it ?

8:16

in terms of the technology part , that's a fantastic

8:18

question . I mean , you know

8:21

, in terms of comparison . So we speak about

8:23

technology because it's all about comparison , technology

8:25

, collecting data and all you compare

8:27

. So in our time we

8:29

had nothing . We had nothing . I

8:31

mean , I'm pretty jealous of the current players . They

8:35

have access to data that we didn't have

8:37

. They have access to video

8:39

clips that we don't have . Nowadays

8:42

they can have access to all the things that can

8:44

make them better . I

8:46

mean , in our time nobody

8:49

took care of our needs . You

8:51

know , we didn't have like specific training for

8:53

a specific position , a specific

8:55

training about specific movement

8:58

, you know . So nothing was really

9:00

thought about this . You know

9:02

, nothing was designed and all the program , no

9:05

paradisks . So everything was one

9:07

block , one package , the team together for

9:09

pre-season or during the week . So

9:12

we couldn't really see . We

9:14

didn't have any visibility on how we could

9:16

perform or get better . That's why we had injuries

9:19

Sometimes . Sometimes we had recurrent injuries

9:21

and because we didn't have access

9:24

to it .

9:24

It was like more like one size fits all

9:26

. You know , everybody does

9:28

the same thing every day , and

9:30

then it's a routine .

9:32

And all the best . Yeah , good luck to you . Good

9:34

luck to you , and you know , let's go , 100%

9:36

, 100% . I agree .

9:38

You know you talk about the different solutions , right , that Gettepult

9:41

provides and let's talk

9:43

about specifically , like , let's

9:45

start talking about the most visible one , right , it's

9:47

the vest . The vest it's the

9:49

wearables and stuff . Talk us

9:51

through that . What kind of solutions do you provide with that ?

9:54

So okay , so let's speak . We

9:56

have just to make it clear

9:58

, you know . So it's the stack

10:00

of technology is pretty straightforward . We have

10:03

two solutions . One is athlete

10:05

monitoring devices

10:08

, the bra as we call it . Then

10:10

you have the video solution . So if

10:12

we go into the athlete monitoring one

10:15

, you know the stack of technology is pretty

10:17

simple . We have different solution from

10:20

pro to consumer . So

10:23

pro will

10:25

require more

10:28

support , more parameters

10:30

, more algorithm , yes , and

10:33

they will basically want

10:36

to have a solution that

10:40

you will provide which is video and

10:42

athlete monitoring together . So

10:44

all the physical

10:46

data that you're gonna get from the athlete monitoring

10:49

piece will be integrated into the

10:51

video in order to give more

10:53

context to the trainings

10:56

and to the games . So

10:58

that is pro . Then we go to the core , which

11:00

is designed again for sub

11:03

elite teams , you know professional

11:05

youth academies . So these ones

11:07

, you have all the essential

11:09

data parameters so

11:12

they will look at it and if they

11:14

want a video software , we can see integrated

11:16

but at a lower level . So this

11:18

one . Then you go to the consumer one . Consumer

11:20

one is for someone that playing a

11:23

small kid playing in an academy . So , it's

11:25

cheaper , you have a few parameters

11:28

, easy to use , very user friendly

11:30

, and they can compare themselves

11:32

with their peers , with their teammates

11:35

, and parents can take a look at the player . So

11:37

these are basically , in terms of athlete monitoring

11:40

, what we can provide to different

11:42

or specific organizations .

11:45

So the organization can also tell

11:47

you what they want , and then you can then yeah

11:51

, they can basically .

11:54

So what we do is basically

11:56

you have different personas in an organization

11:58

, you know that and you have a CEO

12:00

. You have a president we call it a president . Then you have

12:02

a team manager . You have a head coach In

12:05

South Asia . You will have one fitness coach , but

12:08

when you come , you go to the Middle East , you go to Turkey

12:10

, you go to North Africa . You start to have some

12:12

small scientists as well . You will have a doctor

12:14

, a full-time doctor . Everybody

12:17

has a different point of view and they have different

12:19

needs . A CEO has a certain budget . He

12:22

wants the best at the cheap price Within

12:25

his budget . The head coach he doesn't

12:27

want to use the system , he just want to have clear

12:29

and key messages from the end user

12:31

. The end user wants to use something

12:33

that is easy to use . He wants to spend

12:36

more time analyzing then , figure

12:38

out how it works . You know so Exactly , spend

12:41

a lot of time , user friendly . Then you have the doctor

12:43

rehabilitation process Right

12:45

, who needs to get a great collaboration with

12:48

the sports scientists , with the fitness coach

12:50

, with the head coach , in order to make sure that that player

12:52

is ready to come back in order to avoid

12:54

recurrent injuries .

12:56

No , listen , this is so so interesting , right , and

12:58

this just got into my head now . So

13:00

when you are selling this , this , this catapult

13:03

, this product , this system to somebody

13:05

you gotta like , Navigate

13:09

. Yeah , navigate , and you know they

13:11

sell it to different kinds of people , like

13:13

in one organization . How

13:15

do you ? It's a tough job , isn't it ?

13:18

It's a tough job . When I

13:20

joined when I joined the company back in

13:22

2015 , I

13:25

was in charge of penetrating that market

13:28

. So , you can imagine that at a point of time , only

13:30

a few organizations were using this system and

13:33

I can't tell you how they were using it . Not

13:35

the best way possible . So when you get there

13:37

, what is the most important questions

13:40

is what do you do to

13:42

quantify loads ? That's the first

13:44

thing . So for what ? Let me turn it off

13:46

. What do you do that ? They will respond

13:48

to you . Have you ever used

13:51

a technology to quantify

13:53

that ? Then you start speaking

13:56

with them and understanding what it is . When

13:58

you get that point of view or

14:00

that feedback , you are able to get to the team manager

14:02

, you're able to go to the CEO . So me

14:05

and my level now is more like because

14:07

in the region you have four categories in every

14:09

region you have a business development manager , you

14:11

have a director and you have someone for support . I'm

14:14

a lover is really I go to the decision

14:16

makers . The BDM

14:18

will really need to work

14:20

out what they want , what they need , what

14:22

is the best solution for that specific

14:24

organization , and you need to navigate , as you said .

14:27

So , for example , right For

14:29

a team here in Singapore , for example , just a professional

14:32

team here in Singapore , and

14:34

they're using the vest . So

14:36

how does this work ? So they put on the vest

14:38

, they go out there and then there's a

14:40

video camera as well .

14:42

Okay , so a typical day football

14:44

. You have four footballers

14:46

in Singapore , you have pre-training , I

14:49

will assume I will assume it's like that . You

14:51

have pre-training , training

14:53

and post-training Normal

14:56

organization set up . So pre-training

14:58

is basically probably asking qualitative

15:00

data to these guys who question

15:02

, sorry , in order to understand who's training , who's

15:04

feeling good , who's unwell . Then the

15:07

coach is able to understand what kind

15:09

of program he's going to adapt to this training , et cetera

15:11

. During the training . Then

15:13

the training so players

15:15

using the device on

15:17

the T1 session behind the best position

15:19

to where is there behind the back , and

15:22

then , if you have a video analyst , which I'm not sure

15:24

if here in Singapore have many of them , they

15:26

can use the video . So with this camera it's

15:28

just like recording the session . Training

15:32

is over . So is how

15:34

fast you would be able to deliver

15:36

a message to your ecosystem

15:39

, to the coach , to

15:42

the players , and make decision

15:44

. That's the most important thing decision-making

15:46

. What are you gonna do ? So with

15:48

our system ? I would say that in Singapore

15:50

they should do that . You know they need to have a quick

15:52

technology being able to collect this data

15:54

, export it , having no opinion

15:57

on those quantitative data

15:59

. Make it qualitative as

16:01

well as for video , where , if you're able

16:03

to bring this wearable data into the video

16:05

, you even more context to it . You

16:08

can create clips

16:10

, create a presentation or even

16:12

send some clips to a few players . This

16:14

is about the training . This is neat to

16:16

do . Look at what you have done that . So the

16:18

players , when you go back home After

16:20

the session is able to the day after

16:22

the morning , he understand already what is

16:25

done good or not . That should be the

16:27

norm now , you know .

16:28

So it happens so fast , actually Very

16:30

fast To transfer to the , so

16:33

fast .

16:33

So I mean to give you an idea . I give you an

16:35

example Arsana Lateta , when

16:37

you see him at the halftime showing them

16:40

. You know video clips .

16:41

So it happens , it's us .

16:42

Ah , so it's so fast because

16:45

they're able to tag all the events live . They

16:48

will identify which video

16:50

clips about what the coach is going to speak , then

16:52

they put it live and they can speak and

16:54

show , deliver a clear message with

16:56

pictures , with data

16:58

, and that's where you can make

17:01

you know those decisions .

17:03

I actually wanted to ask you how

17:06

accurate are these data ? I'm not going to ask you that because

17:08

it's a silly question . It's accurate . I

17:10

want to go on to the next point now .

17:12

That is a good question . This is a very good

17:14

question because you can imagine that

17:16

being the global leader in sports analytics

17:18

because we are really at the intersections of

17:20

sports science and analytics . So

17:23

why are we to that

17:25

level ? Why everybody wants to catch up with us and

17:27

I've been being very humble because I know the market

17:30

I managed 32 countries , so I know exactly what is happening

17:32

in this market but is having

17:35

validated data . So

17:37

I mean this has been validated

17:40

by a good number of research institutions

17:43

. We have over 100 white

17:46

papers , validated white papers , you know

17:48

. So this is a very , very clear

17:50

question , because accuracy is very important and at a certain

17:52

level , they want to know that because

17:55

if accuracy , as you say , you

17:57

make a decision about the accuracy of the data , you know they are

17:59

not accurate , you know they everything would

18:01

be based you know , brilliant , brilliant

18:03

man , just a

18:05

question how , what's your who

18:08

, not who .

18:09

How many are there as competitors

18:11

to you , like , like , how many companies are doing the same thing

18:13

?

18:15

Roughly , I would say so we

18:17

, as we have different product

18:20

, I would say that for our pro

18:22

solutions we will have

18:24

two competitors , main competitors , that

18:27

will really consider us real

18:29

competitors . If you get to the

18:31

next level , you will find more again

18:34

but this is where

18:36

you need to make the differences what kind of services

18:39

you are provided , what

18:41

kind of support . Support to me is very important . You

18:44

know services nowadays

18:46

, people , and you know you're going to buy

18:48

something . If you don't have the poor service

18:50

, poor user experience , you know

18:53

you get away and that's normal because you

18:55

have so many . So it's very important

18:57

to keep that credibility in that reputation .

18:59

It's very important , you know , because I just I just

19:01

spoke to somebody , I know , and this

19:04

person had this , this vest

19:06

, not from Catapult , from a different company

19:08

, and they just messed it up in

19:10

terms of they couldn't translate , and then

19:12

there was something , and then out

19:14

of 20 players , only five players

19:17

, you know data came out . You know those

19:19

kind of things . So it's very important . Firstly , the technology

19:21

works , obviously , and of course , then the accuracy

19:24

of the data is . It's so , so important .

19:26

So important ? And technology . As you know , we

19:29

can have issues with technology

19:31

but it's how fast you

19:33

can support your customers and some

19:36

people here in that region I won't quote anybody . They

19:38

will make decisions sometimes

19:40

which I completely don't understand , where they will go

19:43

with some companies that have so far they

19:45

have poor support , everything . They keep

19:47

complaining and we tell them that we

19:49

have everything on the ground . You know here for

19:51

Singapore , for instance , you know , but luckily

19:53

you know , now we are , we are working with

19:56

the main organization . We just signed

19:58

a UTR

20:00

you know .

20:01

So UTR going to use us , you know

20:03

with all the schools , etc .

20:04

So we are part of that project , which is fantastic

20:06

. We work with the EFS , which is

20:08

great , you know and we

20:11

, as I always say Singapore is not necessarily

20:13

my market- I live here this

20:15

is not a huge market , and let's be honest

20:17

, but the main organization understands

20:20

more and more and I'm

20:22

having more questions and queries about how

20:24

we can help .

20:25

It's important . It's important and you

20:27

know , in the past we talk about technology

20:30

and all the most , probably before

20:32

Catapult and before all this came about , it's

20:34

probably taking a video of a game right , and

20:36

then going back and analyzing and

20:39

then it's a tedious process and then the

20:41

next day you go into training and then you

20:43

tell the players okay this is what happens but

20:46

right now there's the video , obviously

20:48

, and then you've got the

20:50

quantitative data as well . It

20:53

is also important for the coach also

20:55

, right , because then you're

20:57

not lying to the players , you know , and

20:59

you are telling the players . Okay

21:02

, this is the video . Okay , fine , you may think that

21:04

I'm lying and these are the raw

21:06

data . This is the number of sprints you've done , this

21:09

is the total , you know

21:11

distance you've covered .

21:12

You can spray into air , you can get anything , you

21:14

know so that is so , so important for a coach

21:16

as well .

21:17

And you know , and I've also got some

21:19

feedback from somebody

21:21

you know , a sports scientist here in Singapore , and when they

21:23

first introduced a

21:25

tag to a player , for example , the

21:28

player thinks that you're trying to pin

21:30

something down on me . Is that the feeling that you

21:32

get sometimes as well ?

21:33

It happens . It happens Less , I would

21:35

say less . Nowadays it's always

21:37

about reference , you know . I mean

21:39

, if they see Christian Oral , ronaldo

21:42

Benzema using the vest and Jesus

21:44

Catapult , they won't really question

21:46

it . So we can , it can happen with all

21:48

players in certain you know former

21:50

international from a big country , a Japan

21:53

or a Coral . You know I'm not wearing that because I

21:55

don't want you to see what I do . But I think this is

21:57

wrong and I mean and I

22:00

get back to what I said at the beginning we

22:02

have nothing in the past . Now

22:04

they can see everything

22:07

. I mean , these guys are a big curious . Speak

22:10

to your fitness coach , your sports scientist

22:12

and you can have conversation and

22:15

collaborate with them to understand . It's

22:17

a way again of learning . You know , and I

22:19

will not understand me being a football player

22:21

and not really understanding the meaning of

22:23

this data . I want to , I would like to

22:25

understand it and I think that this mentality

22:27

is changing , where players start

22:30

to understand . They don't know the whole concept

22:32

, but they will start to understand why

22:34

they are using it and what is the process

22:36

.

22:37

You know . I just want to give an example as well , and this happens

22:39

everywhere , not only in professional football teams

22:41

, right in school football and all . And sometimes when

22:43

you tell a player this is the

22:46

wrong position that you're always in , for example , when

22:48

you're receiving a ball , for example , and

22:50

then they keep on doing the same thing in a game . But

22:53

when you video it and you show

22:55

it to them , then they realize

22:57

, because sometimes you know I think you've been a player before

22:59

and when you're doing it in a game , you don't exactly know

23:01

, you know . And then when somebody tells you and you still he's

23:04

talking nonsense . And then when he shows you on

23:06

the video , so damn , and

23:08

just imagine , with that video together with

23:11

the quantitative , data .

23:12

It just , it's just amazing . It's amazing , right

23:15

, it's amazing .

23:16

I just want to touch on again , going

23:18

back and now right , the speed of football , the

23:21

intensity of the game . Firstly

23:24

, let's clear this up . Has it changed Speed

23:27

and intensity .

23:28

I give you my opinion . I would say yes

23:30

.

23:32

If it's yes , right , then does

23:34

that mean that Catapult is more relevant

23:36

, now More than ever ?

23:38

100% if

23:41

the day you know those players

23:44

, now that each player has

23:46

a fingerprint , you need to find

23:48

a sweet spot for each and

23:50

every player . Before we tend to

23:52

say don't train too hard , you will get injured

23:55

. Now they will tell you and you train

23:57

a bit more in

23:59

order to not get injured . You understand those things are changing

24:01

, but if you don't have the data to tell you exactly

24:04

where you know these , if

24:06

you can't compare the acute , chronic

24:08

loads you know and you can't really find that sweet spot for

24:11

these guys . It's never perfect , but that

24:13

will help you to really find the

24:15

right balance for your player and then you can

24:17

maintain it through the season . That's why the pre-season

24:19

pre-season is so important in

24:22

having this kind of materials

24:24

, because that will determine what

24:26

is your player going to do through the season If

24:28

it's bad . Pre-season finish

24:30

. But before it was like , as you said , all

24:33

in one and let's go Exactly

24:35

, exactly .

24:37

Okay , I want to put you in a

24:39

spot in a way . Right , you talk about

24:41

technology and AI and whatever nonsense

24:43

. Right ? Is

24:46

there a corn , like we talk about pros

24:48

and cons ? Is there a disadvantage of using technology

24:50

? It's just

24:52

off your head , your opinion .

24:54

My opinion is it's

24:56

always finding the right balance . So

24:58

I just mentioned that before you know is

25:00

too much . Technology is not good . You

25:04

need to find and coaching . You need experience

25:06

, coaching abilities and

25:09

science will come

25:11

in order to help you , to make you better and make your players

25:13

better . If this is taking over

25:15

and we only rely on data and

25:18

not on your opinion , that

25:20

will affect everything . So I mean , that's why

25:23

is how you can transform

25:25

or transition those quantitative

25:27

data into qualitative data . These

25:30

are the most important because you need to have

25:32

your opinion on the thing . So do

25:34

you need to rely on data , but

25:36

find the right balance ?

25:38

It's the feeling for the game as well as a coach

25:40

.

25:43

Coach , you're coaching kids as well . You're a former pro , you

25:45

understand football , you do commentary , so

25:47

you understand football . So I mean

25:49

you have seen things , you went through , you had experiences , so

25:52

you are able to communicate

25:54

those experiences .

25:55

Have you had any problems convincing a coach to

25:57

do this ? To switch into , not

26:00

catapult , anything right , technology-wise ? Yeah

26:02

, many times .

26:03

Many times . Yeah , some

26:05

coaches we call it the

26:07

diners so the way they

26:10

have no clue about technology . First

26:12

of all , and

26:14

again , it's about like willing

26:16

to learn . It's learning to

26:18

own a son coach , some people

26:20

, certain individuals that can be caught from another

26:23

industry . They just don't want to learn .

26:24

Have you convinced anyone of them ?

26:26

Oh , yes , always , but not always

26:29

, but 90% at the end . Yeah , it's

26:31

a way of

26:33

the fact that I'm a former pro

26:35

as well helps a lot . Because

26:37

I always give them what happened to me , my background

26:39

, where I'm from . You know , like

26:42

all the things help to go that process

26:44

. Where I'm not

26:46

, I don't like to , there's

26:48

credibility . Exactly , exactly

26:51

, exactly , exactly . But I don't

26:53

want to be seen as

26:55

a sales guy . I'm here to discuss

26:57

, you know . Of course I work for a company , I need to bring

27:00

bread on the table for my family , etc . Because

27:02

I have work , but at the end of the day

27:04

, I'm passionate about football . Yes , I

27:06

didn't care to hang up my boots , but I love football so much so

27:09

when I go and speak to any coaching

27:11

staff , the love for football is coming

27:13

back . So we're having a discussion and me I'm telling

27:15

you I have the solution , I have

27:17

something that could help you , because you have expectation

27:20

and needs and the guy says , listen , let's

27:22

do that , let's start by something that is very simple

27:24

. Take that solution Not too

27:26

much , and you have a few data that

27:28

will help you . You know , and we're going to help you . This

27:30

is where the support thing is important to

27:32

educate .

27:33

Right , right , right . Has it been easy

27:35

selling catapult to like like FACE

27:38

, like big organization

27:40

, like football associations ?

27:42

I would say less , because you

27:45

always have people in football association

27:47

who's willing

27:50

to leave a legacy , willing

27:53

to improve the way they

27:56

operate , willing to

27:58

improve the performance of the players , and

28:00

you always find someone within that organization

28:03

that's going to help you . I think kind of is going

28:05

to be a champion , where is it really going to push

28:07

for it and it's going to help you introduce you

28:09

to the right people . So I mean FACE , okay

28:11

, so I'll give you an example . So all

28:14

, all for Saudi

28:16

Arabia , saudi Arabia . We work with them for the past . I

28:19

work with them for the past four or five years . We have done

28:21

tremendous work with them . We help them to really

28:23

get to that level . I'm not saying that

28:25

the coaching staff have done a great job , but

28:27

we help them to really use the data

28:29

perfectly . And

28:33

all the national teams are using it because

28:35

you their experience was great , because there were results . We

28:37

help them to reach their objective . What's

28:41

your objective for the next eight , 18

28:43

months ? We're going to help you . This is how we're going

28:45

to do . Let's collaborate together

28:47

. So that's why I'm not here . You don't want to work with

28:49

me , you want to work with them . Thank you , I'm going . I'm not

28:51

going to chase you . It's not my style , but

28:53

this is how I can help you and , trust me

28:56

, we're going to deliver . So , that's how

28:58

we work .

28:59

What has been the stumbling blocks , like

29:01

if anyone would say no to you guys . What

29:04

has it been the reasons , so far , at

29:06

least in your experience ?

29:08

Yeah , blockers is always

29:10

the main topic in

29:13

any sales job , I would

29:15

say , because there is always

29:17

something . Maybe they use a competitor

29:20

. The guy used to that technology doesn't

29:22

want to change . You know that when you ask someone to change they don't want to change

29:24

. They all want to change , but then it's time to

29:26

change . They don't want to change , even if it's for the better . Budget

29:30

Budget could be in Southeast Asia , a big issue

29:32

, a big issue . So . But the luck that

29:34

we have is we have those different

29:37

package that is really designed

29:39

for a budget for

29:41

an organization and the good thing about it

29:43

and even if it's a top organization , they use

29:46

a lower kind of product we

29:48

can at the same time educate

29:52

them in order for them to forecast

29:54

and for the next two

29:56

or three years , and then they can upgrade eventually

29:59

.

29:59

So this is basically a subscription base , right

30:01

? Yes , so it's like a yearly or

30:03

it can be anything .

30:05

One year . Now we don't do SaaS company don't really like

30:08

a year contract . So , it's a minimum

30:10

two or three year contract Okay . What

30:12

is important is how you . It's about

30:15

expansion and retention .

30:16

Okay .

30:16

So at the end of the day , when

30:18

you do retention , you can renew the

30:21

basis to upgrade them , helping them

30:23

to get something better , because now they've been with us

30:25

for two or three years , then you want them

30:27

to be upgraded and then retention

30:30

is making sure that the client are happy and they say , oh

30:32

, that's for our . Retention rate I would

30:34

say in my region is

30:36

pretty solid at

30:38

the moment .

30:39

Yeah , you know . Yeah , something just came up to

30:41

our mind as well . You know the pros and cons bit right . Would

30:44

it be accurate to say that one of the cons

30:46

is that you need

30:48

people to know how to use the

30:50

product as well , like you know what I mean

30:52

. Is it easy to use , is it user friendly ?

30:55

That kind of thing Very important to me , very

30:57

, very . This is the most important thing . I mean , I

30:59

would say that I've stepped back

31:01

from a few deals because

31:04

I knew they would not use it . Okay , it's

31:06

just because the CEO wanted to

31:08

look good and have , but we knew that the

31:10

end user coaching staff will not use it to us to step back . This

31:13

is not my style . So what I want

31:15

is really making sure that if you go for it , you

31:17

use it I use it perfectly

31:19

and we help you to use it . Understanding what

31:21

are you doing , what you're collecting , I

31:24

mean this is key for me . The

31:26

user experience to me is the most

31:28

important thing and

31:31

we have a great reputation . As I said before

31:33

, the credibility is also very

31:35

important in order to expand . I manage many

31:38

countries , many different cultures , many

31:40

different mentalities . So this

31:43

war region as a block , I

31:45

really wanted to be

31:47

perfectly managed and I want everybody

31:50

to be happy .

31:51

So you guys , actually , when you sell

31:53

the products and stuff , they're straining . Everything

31:56

is done to the T and so everybody

31:58

understands Exactly .

32:00

So now we are used to that . So , basically

32:03

, that's why all those questions are important prior

32:05

to acquiring this technology

32:07

, because we can identify what

32:10

is the best solution . Then , once it

32:12

receives , the solution is how we're going to educate

32:14

them . So , on top of that , what I do we have some

32:16

global webinars workshops , but

32:19

in my region , every quarter

32:21

I organize webinars for specific

32:23

products , specific customers , specific

32:26

prospect , in order

32:28

for them to re-understand what they're getting and

32:31

, if they don't do it properly , how they can improve

32:33

Right .

32:34

Maybe one of the other stumbling blocks is

32:36

you talk about the organization and the end users

32:38

once a group of them leaves

32:40

the club , and then the

32:42

new group comes in .

32:43

That's another one . There are many , but this one is a

32:45

big one .

32:46

So the retraining bit is also done by you guys

32:48

there . Oh yeah , 100% . We have no choice , because

32:51

when these guys leave , they're not going to

32:53

damn worry about these guys

32:55

, they don't care .

32:56

Yeah , but that's a very good point . I mean , this

32:59

is where and again , this is to

33:01

me maintaining relationship is very important . We

33:03

don't have to be . I would say that most

33:05

of the CEO-presidents are my friends , like

33:07

on the region , but I mean

33:09

, at the lowest of my BDM , like Idyr

33:11

was working , he's always telling

33:14

them he's like maintain the relationship

33:16

. This is so important

33:18

because if you don't know that this guy is

33:20

leaving , how are you going to know that

33:22

someone else is coming and taking over and he's going

33:24

to ask for to use another competitor ? So

33:26

this is all about relationship , like everything

33:28

. So how you maintain it . Some

33:31

people have natural skills , some they need to develop

33:33

it . But I mean , I'm pretty okay with

33:35

my team . They are doing a great job Nice

33:37

nice .

33:38

Well moving forward . Benoit

33:41

, what's happening for Ketapol ? Is there any upgrades

33:43

in , I don't know , in the technology bit or what , in

33:46

the next few five years or so ?

33:48

Yeah , yeah , great question . So I mean , as

33:51

I mentioned before , being the global

33:53

leader in sports analytics is not easy

33:55

. You always need to be on top . Everybody

33:57

wants to catch up , so the

34:00

key is to be always innovative , creative

34:03

and on top of the game . So

34:05

again , I was talking about user

34:07

experience . To me , what is key is always

34:10

making sure that everything

34:12

that they do when they use technology is

34:14

smooth . So , the user experience might be quick

34:16

. Fast . Decision making must

34:18

be how do

34:20

you say that in English ? Instantaneous

34:25

, and if you don't have

34:27

that , they will not be happy

34:29

. So now all the software

34:31

that we do is in

34:34

order to really make sure

34:36

that the user and the spending time

34:38

like putting the device or uploading

34:42

the data from one console to the cloud

34:44

. So what we've done recently with

34:46

our vector core , which is our medium kind

34:49

of devices , is

34:51

now we don't have any console . So before in the software

34:54

you had to component the console and the cloud

34:56

. So now it's over . You have a dock station

34:58

with the devices

35:00

. So now through Wi-Fi all

35:03

the data are pushed to the cloud

35:05

and you have your report automatically , which

35:08

is already set up in advance . So

35:10

now , basically , finish a training . The guy takes

35:12

a shower , he comes back , boom , he has his report . He can

35:14

even call the players and say , well , this is what it is . So

35:17

that is basically what we do in terms of video

35:19

. Every quarter

35:21

we have amazing updates . Our

35:23

video software , which is not really well

35:25

known here in South East Asia , we

35:28

start to get more and more . We have great news

35:30

soon . I will let you know when it comes . But

35:32

there was a few national teams and

35:35

it's just amazing what we can do .

35:37

You know , if people at home and watching this

35:39

and listening to this , if you guys have any apprehensions

35:41

about technology in football

35:44

and AI and everything else

35:46

, right , I think it's pretty safe that

35:48

technology is here to stay . It is as simple

35:50

as that , because

35:53

everything is progressing and

35:55

everything is moving forward and if you don't want to

35:57

catch up , then someone's going to get left

36:00

behind sooner or later .

36:01

Clubs are moving forward , fas

36:04

are moving forward with technology and all

36:06

A good point on that

36:08

, because the world

36:10

that we have done with , for example , the

36:12

Thai FA , the Vietnam FA

36:14

, the academy , is PVF

36:16

for five years in developing

36:19

the players . You can see now the result

36:21

. You see the women's national team

36:23

of Philippines gaining to the World Cup . Nobody

36:25

knows what they have done behind the scenes , but how

36:27

we help them , the girls training overseas

36:30

in America , how we track them , give

36:32

them a solution in order to track their

36:34

training with the device , and we had a solution

36:37

that we developed during the COVID-19 crisis

36:39

to push those data

36:41

to the administrator that is based

36:43

in the Philippines . So all that is like

36:45

. You know it's amazing monitoring

36:47

your players , you know , remotely .

36:49

It's just amazing , brilliant , beno

36:52

, any last words , for clubs , for players watching

36:54

and listening to this , in terms of Catapult

36:57

, you know .

36:58

Yeah , I mean I'm still around

37:00

, I'm still in Singapore . So if you have any questions

37:02

, do not hesitate . It's pretty easy to get a hold

37:04

of me . And what

37:07

I would say as a last word is if you're

37:09

a footballer , if you're a sports guy , if

37:11

you want to get into the technology space

37:13

is learn , Learn

37:18

. Try to get into any

37:20

conference , any webinar , and

37:23

don't , as you said . You know it

37:26

can be too late if you don't catch up with what's going

37:28

on in terms of technology . Things are going so fast

37:30

, so keep

37:32

learning , keep learning . That's , that's what I've done

37:34

all my life , all my career . So he's

37:36

learning .

37:38

Thanks , thanks so much , beno . You know , I think , thank you for

37:40

being here , I think , from your busy schedule

37:42

, your meetings , you know and

37:44

and , yeah , you're right , you know I think we need

37:46

to catch up and technology is definitely

37:48

, you know , here to stay in

37:51

helping teams , helping clubs , helping FAs

37:53

. We need to move forward Because I think

37:55

at the moment the other countries

37:57

are way ahead , the clubs

37:59

wise as well . So we need to catch up .

38:01

You're right . So thank you again , Beno . Thanks to you for

38:03

the invitation . I appreciate that . Thank you .

38:06

It was a pleasure . This has

38:08

been the latest episode of the football

38:10

talk with the Silver Fox Arsenal podcast . Don't forget

38:12

, subscribe , follow us and till the

38:14

next episode , cheers , see you .