The Rwanda plan: How to waste £700m

The Rwanda plan: How to waste £700m

Released Tuesday, 11th February 2025
Good episode? Give it some love!
The Rwanda plan: How to waste £700m

The Rwanda plan: How to waste £700m

The Rwanda plan: How to waste £700m

The Rwanda plan: How to waste £700m

Tuesday, 11th February 2025
Good episode? Give it some love!
Rate Episode

Episode Transcript

Transcripts are displayed as originally observed. Some content, including advertisements may have changed.

Use Ctrl + F to search

0:00

Support for this podcast and the

0:02

following message is brought to you

0:04

by E Trade from Morgan Stanley.

0:06

With E Trade, you can dive

0:08

into the market with easy-to-use tools,

0:10

$0 commissions, and a wide range

0:12

of investments. And now there's even

0:15

more to love. Get access to

0:17

industry leading research and insights from

0:19

Morgan Stanley to help guide your

0:21

decisions. Open an account and get

0:23

up to $1,000 or more with

0:25

a qualifying deposit. Get started today

0:27

at E trade.com. Terms and other

0:29

fees apply. Ryan

0:32

Reynolds here for Mint Mobile.

0:34

I don't know if you

0:36

knew this, but anyone can

0:38

get the same premium wireless

0:40

for $15 a month plan

0:42

that I've been enjoying. It's

0:44

not just for celebrities, so

0:46

do like I did, and

0:48

have one of your assistance

0:50

assistance to switch you to Mint

0:53

Mobile today. I'm told it's super

0:55

easy to do at Mint Mobile

0:57

today. I'm told it's super easy

1:00

to do at mintmobile.com. tortoise.

1:08

Hello it's Claudia here

1:10

and you're listening to

1:12

the slow newscast from tortoise.

1:15

This week how to

1:17

spend 715 million pounds.

1:19

My colleagues Kat Neelin

1:21

and Aida Barumei take

1:23

a look at how all

1:26

that money was spent over

1:28

three years by four prime

1:30

ministers on a policy that

1:32

never actually took off. The

1:34

Rwanda policy. Over to Kat.

1:37

Hello there, my name is Suzy, I'm

1:40

calling from the Home Office about your

1:42

asylum claim, is now a good time.

1:44

It's April 2024. In defiance

1:46

of a Supreme Court ruling,

1:49

Parliament has just declared Rwanda

1:51

a safe country. We're a

1:53

few months out from an election.

1:55

It's forecast for November, but

1:57

summer is small boat season. home office

1:59

they have no time to lose. You

2:02

no longer have permission to remain in

2:04

the UK. Your asylum claim has been

2:06

denied and you have exhausted all the

2:08

appeal rights available to you. If you're

2:10

the person on the other end of

2:13

this phone call it means that you've

2:15

been identified as someone who is eligible

2:17

to be sent to Rwanda. You have

2:19

a choice about how to leave the

2:22

UK. You can either do so voluntarily

2:24

or you may be forced to. We

2:26

are offering you a chance to leave

2:28

the UK voluntarily. with financial and relocation

2:30

support to make it easy for you.

2:33

If you do not, you may be

2:35

detained and forcibly removed. By this point,

2:37

the Rwanda plan has been in the

2:39

works and headlines for two years. The

2:41

policy would see people who have arrived

2:44

illegally in the UK sent to Kigali

2:46

for processing and resettlement. But the number

2:48

of people that have actually been sent?

2:50

That stands at zero. If you choose

2:52

to leave voluntarily, we are offering you

2:55

a chance to relocate to Rwanda. We

2:57

will help you leave the UK

2:59

within several days of applying and

3:01

with support with providing travel documentation,

3:04

pre-flight accommodation and booking flights. And

3:06

once you arrive, you will have

3:08

access to a reintegration package to

3:11

Rwanda. And over the course of

3:13

the policies development, we've racked up

3:15

four home secretaries. Pretty Patel, who

3:18

was its architect, Suella Braverman, who

3:20

followed her. Grant Shaps, who lasted...

3:22

Six days, Suella Braverman again, and

3:24

finally, James Cleverly. In Rwanda, you

3:27

will receive financial support, housing and

3:29

healthcare. You will receive £3,000 to

3:31

support your relocation, pay to you

3:34

on a card that can only

3:36

be used in Rwanda. You'll receive

3:38

safe and clean accommodation, free medical

3:40

insurance and tailored reintegration support to

3:43

help you resettle there. You will

3:45

be given a smartphone and a

3:47

SIM card in Rwanda to keep

3:50

you connected. James Cleveley's only

3:52

been in post since November 2023.

3:54

The Conservatives last shot at getting

3:56

a plane into the air rests

3:58

squarely on his shoulders. Rwanda is

4:00

a safe and welcoming country. They

4:02

are keen to work with us

4:04

and it's incredibly important that we

4:06

have that deterrent. The Rwanda scheme

4:09

is part of a deterrent which

4:11

is about saving lives and breaking

4:13

the business model of criminal gangs.

4:15

That's why the Prime Minister, myself

4:17

and the whole of government are

4:19

so determined to deliver on it.

4:21

The Tories argue that the Rwanda

4:23

plan will deter small boats crossing

4:25

the channel. It is central to

4:27

the party's electoral hopes. Stop the

4:29

boats is emblazoned on podiums and

4:31

repeated at every opportunity. But the

4:33

policy has never taken off and

4:35

the boats haven't stopped. You will

4:38

receive support with continuing education including

4:40

to degree level and or vocational

4:42

training in professional and technical skills

4:44

so you can establish a career

4:46

and become self-sufficient after five years.

4:48

By the time a soggy Rishi

4:50

Sunak calls the election outside number

4:52

10. A total of four people

4:54

have voluntarily agreed to go to

4:56

Rwanda. Four people. Despite legions of

4:58

officials being given this very script,

5:00

now leak to us and voiced

5:02

up. If you decline this offer,

5:04

you will not get any of

5:07

this support and may be forcibly

5:09

removed to your home country. If

5:11

we remove you forcibly, the most

5:13

likely scenario is that we will

5:15

detain you, put you on a

5:17

plane and send you to your

5:19

home country without this generous one-time

5:21

offer. We

5:23

confirm your phone number to arrange

5:25

a follow-up conversation. British taxpayers are

5:27

left with a £750 million bill,

5:30

which may still go higher, and

5:32

there's nothing to show for it,

5:34

except, finally, an itemised receipt of

5:36

exactly how much it costs to

5:38

crash land a policy. Boris Johnson

5:40

was Prime Minister and Pretty Patel

5:43

was the home secretary. The cost

5:45

of the asylum system is the

5:47

highest in over two decades. at

5:49

over 1.5 billion pounds. Part of

5:51

the cell was keeping the numbers

5:53

down, both in terms of immigrants

5:56

and the cost of the asylum

5:58

system, which had hit 3 billion

6:00

pounds the previous year and would

6:02

go on to reach a record

6:04

of 4 billion pounds in 2023.

6:06

And as the Prime Minister Mr

6:09

Speaker said last week, we cannot

6:11

sustain a parallel illegal system. This

6:13

is why the new plan for

6:15

immigration... and its legislative vehicle, the

6:17

National Antibaldus Bill are so vital.

6:19

Since then, the Guard has well

6:22

and truly changed. Four Prime Ministers,

6:24

four Home Secretaries, and five immigration

6:26

ministers. But one man has outlasted

6:28

them all. Perhaps the opponent's secretary

6:30

might be able to tell us

6:33

whether he is now satisfied of

6:35

the value for money of the

6:37

Rwanda scheme. Well I keep that

6:39

judgment under constant review as you

6:41

would expect and the circumstances have

6:43

not changed sufficiently for me to

6:46

change my judgment which from April

6:48

as you will recall was that

6:50

we did not have evidence that

6:52

it would be value for money.

6:54

It remains the case that it

6:56

could be value for money and

6:59

it could not be. I will

7:01

repeat my commitment to this committee

7:03

and to your sister committee the

7:05

public accounts committee. to update you

7:07

when the circumstances change to requiring

7:09

to change that assessment. Still to

7:12

this day, sitting in post is

7:14

the most senior civil servant in

7:16

the home office, a role he

7:18

took up in 2020, Matthew Rycroft

7:20

never did update us. The only

7:22

way he would have been able

7:25

to answer that question is if

7:27

a plane had taken off, if

7:29

the circumstances had changed. Now, with

7:31

the Tories long gone, he and

7:33

his department are drawing a line

7:35

under the policy of a previous

7:38

era. one which the current government

7:40

says it wants nothing to do

7:42

with. It's as if the taxpayer

7:44

has been left holding the tab

7:46

for a very expensive meal that

7:49

never arrived. The first item on

7:51

that eye-watering bill, the sort that

7:53

might make you wince as you

7:55

take it from the waiter, is

7:57

a... 2019 million pound payment to

7:59

Rwanda split over three years. 120

8:02

million of that was paid in

8:04

April 2022, an order to get

8:06

the whole process started. At the

8:08

same time another 20 million pounds

8:10

was handed over to cover early

8:12

operational costs. This went towards those

8:15

neat, boxy, low-rise blocks painted Sunshine

8:17

Yellow, the ones that Sorella Braverman

8:19

marvelled at on a trip to

8:21

Rwanda a year later. delighted and

8:23

excited about our partnership with Rwanda

8:25

to be creating a vibrant community

8:28

here to be a positive, secure,

8:30

beautiful haven and home for many

8:32

thousands of people. What we didn't

8:34

know at the time it was

8:36

agreed but do now is that

8:38

the deal included another million pound

8:41

tranche to be handed over the

8:43

following year and a further 50

8:45

million pound payment in 2024. If

8:47

the deal hadn't been called off,

8:49

payments were expected in years four

8:51

and five of the plan too.

8:54

Some within the home office believe

8:56

this was the first major floor

8:58

in the policy, as one official

9:00

told us. We appear to have

9:02

made a very large initial payment

9:05

to get the Rwandans to agree

9:07

to do it, and they got

9:09

to keep that money, even if

9:11

we didn't send anyone. So from

9:13

a public accounts perspective, it was

9:15

insane. You would never do that

9:18

in any other context. If a

9:20

permsect did that on an IT

9:22

contract, they would lose their job.

9:24

You would not get away with

9:26

putting so much money up front

9:28

with the other side doing nothing

9:31

except agreeing to it. Money for

9:33

nothing? Sounds like a good deal

9:35

for someone. But maybe not to

9:37

those of us picking up the

9:39

bill. And not to the treasury

9:41

either. At least, not initially. Multiple

9:44

sources told us of the extreme

9:46

skepticism with which the Chancellor at

9:48

the time. One Rishi Sunak viewed

9:50

this policy. In the words of

9:52

one former special advisor, it was

9:54

a very expensive scheme. which pitted

9:57

the treasury against those trying to

9:59

get it off the ground. That

10:01

view was shared by another former

10:03

government official who told us. As

10:05

Chancellor, he was quite skeptical because

10:07

of the cost implications and value

10:10

for money question and there was

10:12

limited evidence it would be effective

10:14

and given all the other big

10:16

spending issues he was dealing with

10:18

like social care, he was deeply

10:21

skeptical when he was in the

10:23

treasury. It says something about the

10:25

weird untouchable level of this policy.

10:27

that it then became such a

10:29

signature part of his agenda. Rwanda

10:31

wasn't necessarily always the intended partner.

10:34

Several other countries, including some in

10:36

Africa, were in the mix at

10:38

the early stages of the policy,

10:40

but either they ruled themselves out

10:42

or weren't quite the right fit.

10:44

According to one Tory source, Rwanda

10:47

was keen to help out. You

10:49

know who you call me? You've

10:51

got a problem with the refugees

10:53

and how you deal hospitably and

10:55

humanely with them. You call the

10:57

Rwandans. In the same way that

11:00

you go, do we need someone

11:02

to mediate between these two people

11:04

who want to kill each other

11:06

on site? You call the Norwegians,

11:08

or you call the Qataris. It

11:10

was the USP they wanted to

11:13

develop, and they were genuinely sincere

11:15

about it. Rwanda's president is Paul

11:17

Kigami. His politics are contentious, to

11:19

say the least. Critics accuse him

11:21

of ordering the murders of political

11:23

opponents, including exiles who have fled

11:26

the country. Having ruled

11:28

the country since 2000, he has

11:30

abolished term limits and won his

11:32

last election with 99% of the

11:34

vote. He's currently facing accusations, which

11:36

he denies, of funding the paramilitary

11:38

insurgent group M23 in neighbouring Eastern

11:40

DRC. The Rwandan economy is one

11:42

of the fastest growing on the

11:44

continent, but it's still developing, so

11:46

it's possible that some of that

11:48

money has been put to good

11:50

use. But the truth is, once

11:52

the cash was handed over, No

11:54

one back here was keeping tabs

11:56

on how it was being spent.

12:00

Total spend so far? 290 million.

12:02

People sent zero. As you scan

12:04

that restaurant bill, trying to work

12:06

out who ordered what and how

12:09

someone managed to spend so much,

12:11

the second line jumps out. 50

12:13

million pounds for what is described

12:15

as flights, escorting, airfield and impacted

12:18

police force. That's broken down as

12:20

the cost of securing flights. Escorting

12:22

detainees, preparing the airfield for any

12:25

eventual flights, and the police officers

12:27

required to keep it secure. It

12:29

feels like a lot for a

12:31

policy with no flights to show

12:34

for it, at least none with

12:36

any asylum seekers on. And it

12:38

takes us to the moment when

12:41

this policy got, perhaps, the closest

12:43

to actually taking off. It's a

12:45

clear pleasant evening on the 14th

12:47

of June 2022. At Boscombe Down

12:50

Airfield in Wiltshire, There's a plane

12:52

sitting on a runway destined for

12:54

Rwanda. Seven people are expecting the

12:57

journey to be one way. It

12:59

would later emerge that one man

13:01

on board was strapped to his

13:03

seat, his arms and head restrained,

13:06

after he told his security guards

13:08

he would rather die than get

13:10

on the plane. Back in the

13:13

home office itself, anticipation is mounting.

13:15

Could this be the moment the

13:17

policy becomes reality? And what does

13:19

that mean if it does? There

13:22

were a series of rulings in

13:24

quick succession. The High Court, Supreme

13:26

Court, Court of Appeal. There were

13:29

lots of people who thought it

13:31

would get killed in one of

13:33

those, and of course it didn't.

13:35

So we were sitting there thinking,

13:38

oh shit, we actually have to

13:40

do this. But the minutes ticked

13:42

by, and the plane doesn't move.

13:44

A last-minute judgment from the Strasbourg-based

13:47

European Court of Human Rights arrives

13:49

in the nick of time. The

13:51

flight is cancelled. It's back to

13:54

the drawing board. And another 500,000

13:56

pounds is added to the bill.

14:00

Later that year, there are reports

14:03

that the Home Office is once

14:05

again approaching airlines to provide planes

14:07

for the flights to Kigali. The

14:09

New Yorker-based airline, Privileged Style, has

14:11

pulled out reportedly after pressure from

14:13

campaign groups. Speculation that no airline

14:15

was willing to take on the

14:17

reputational burden morphs into speculation that

14:19

the government will be ripped off

14:21

by whoever eventually agrees to take

14:23

the hit. At one point, even

14:25

Ryanair's Michael O'Leary gets involved, offering

14:27

to quote for the business if

14:29

he has spare aircraft sitting around.

14:31

But it doesn't come to that.

14:33

Charter Group Air Tanker ends up

14:35

taking on the job, though it

14:37

remains tight-lipped about the nature of

14:40

the agreement. Contradicting this sense of

14:42

chaos, one Tory source told us

14:44

the team had no real problem

14:46

securing a company. People are going,

14:48

you know, is it difficult? Does

14:50

no one want to do it?

14:52

It's like no, we're all sorted.

14:54

The system's working fine. That bit

14:56

of it was easy. First of

14:58

all, they were on contract. So

15:00

uncomfortable though it may have been,

15:02

I don't know, I never tested

15:04

it. The point was, you have

15:06

a contract to do stuff. So

15:08

that's what we're doing. While no

15:10

flights with asylum seekers were ever

15:12

sent to Rwanda as part of

15:14

this policy, Tory ministers managed to

15:17

rack up more than 400,000 pounds

15:19

for their visits back and forth,

15:21

including a day trip by James

15:23

clever. at the cost of £165,000,

15:25

a figure that comes on top

15:27

of the rest of the bill.

15:29

But really, flights were just the

15:31

tip of the iceberg for this

15:33

part of the bill. All that

15:35

has been published so far is

15:37

the 50 million pound combined figure.

15:39

But tortoise has established a further

15:41

breakdown. We can reveal that the

15:43

lion's share, 37.8 million pounds, was

15:45

soaked up by the cost of

15:47

escorting. That's hiring and training security

15:49

guards. as well as 6.4 million

15:51

pounds on renting a secret facility

15:54

in which to train them. A

15:56

further 8 million pounds was spent

15:58

on preparing the airfield for those

16:00

flights with 4 million pounds covering

16:02

the cost of policing the airfield.

16:04

And so, the bill ticks up yet

16:06

again. Total spend, 340 million

16:09

pounds. People sent zero.

16:11

While it's true that in the

16:13

grand scheme of running a country,

16:15

the amount spent on the Rwanda

16:18

policy is small change. The kicker

16:20

is that we never got anything

16:23

for any of that money. And,

16:25

as cost for the policy mounted

16:27

up, resources were increasingly being diverted

16:29

away from other parts of the

16:31

home office. Two sources told us

16:33

that by the final stages, there were

16:35

a thousand people working on the policy.

16:38

Fewer than a hundred had been recruited

16:40

specifically, while the rest came from

16:42

elsewhere within the home office. That

16:44

meant that in the race to get

16:46

Rwanda over the line, other important

16:49

pieces of government work couldn't be

16:51

done. As one, current civil servant told

16:53

us. It wasn't the fact that

16:55

it was just an astronomical amount

16:57

of money, because at the time we were

16:59

starting to talk about budget cuts elsewhere. It

17:01

felt a bit like just a misuse of

17:03

money, rather than it being a huge cost.

17:05

I think it was a bit like we

17:07

could be using this money elsewhere, like why

17:09

are we spending it on this policy

17:11

specifically? It's a fair question, but it's

17:13

not one those of us on the outside could

17:16

ask, because at the time we didn't know how

17:18

much was being taken to a restaurant. and

17:20

having to pay for the table next to

17:22

you and someone there ordered the lobster. Even

17:24

senior MPs like Labour's Meg Hillier who

17:26

chaired the Public Accounts Committee in the

17:28

last Parliament couldn't get a straight answer.

17:30

So producing information in the annual accounts

17:33

which is 15 months after the last

17:35

100 million pounds payment was made to

17:37

Rwanda is not acceptable. What is the

17:39

problem about just being open and honest

17:41

about something you signed off as Chancellor

17:43

that you're now championing as Prime Minister

17:45

that's a five-year program? What's the secrecy?

17:48

What's the secrecyacy. because as we've been

17:50

very clear it may well be that we

17:52

want to have other conversations with other countries.

17:54

This is one of those favoured party

17:56

lines, the argument being that the details

17:58

of those deals... need to be kept

18:01

secret so that other negotiations happening with

18:03

theoretical undisclosed countries aren't jeopardised. Which other

18:05

countries are you thinking of having a

18:08

conversation? It wouldn't be right to talk

18:10

about these things if we're having private

18:12

conversations with countries about potential alternatives to

18:14

add to our UN policy. You've always

18:17

been clear that that is something that

18:19

the government would like to explain. I

18:21

mean, I've been on the public accounts

18:23

committee now for 13 for 12 years

18:26

and... I'm aware of lots of things

18:28

that are talked about as being commercially

18:30

confidential and when we ask to see

18:32

the papers they're not at all. I

18:35

cannot see nor can other members of

18:37

my committee what is commercially confidential about

18:39

this that will still, will won't be

18:41

commercially confidential when the accounts are produced.

18:44

There isn't an arbitrary timeline when something

18:46

stops being commercially confidential and then does.

18:48

and is no longer confidential. There is

18:50

no reason to have a 15-month delay.

18:53

And if you're wondering how the Public

18:55

Accounts Committee managed to get hold of

18:57

the numbers they're talking about. The only

18:59

reason this money was revealed was because

19:02

somebody in Rwanda, possibly inadvertently, we don't

19:04

know. There's an inquiry going on and

19:06

released it to the International Monetary Fund,

19:08

which itself is instructive, is it not?

19:11

You know, I think we probably just

19:13

have a different point of view on

19:15

this. Meg Hillier is asking a pretty

19:17

simple question here. I think you understand

19:20

those rules very clearly, so can we

19:22

just be really clear? Why are you

19:24

not, sharing with Parliament and the public

19:26

the money being spent on their Rwanda

19:29

scheme? It's a five-year project, you signed

19:31

your office, Chancellor, you must have been

19:33

content then despite you now having to

19:35

pass legislation to operaization, opera, operaisation. Why

19:38

did you not think about asking those

19:40

questions? Then you must have been asking

19:42

those questions, why can't you share that

19:44

money with us? The money with us.

19:47

There's a balance to be struck. There

19:49

is annual transparency of these numbers to

19:51

Parliament. I think that's right. Prime Minister,

19:53

it is no, it is not the

19:56

normal transparency Prime Minister that is provided.

19:58

On other big projects, like for example

20:00

High Speed 2, Take 1, I could

20:02

give you many other examples, we were

20:05

receiving six monthly reports laid to Parliament.

20:07

That is the normal approach and is

20:09

normal to negotiate this with the public

20:11

accounts committee on a routine basis. We

20:14

do that regularly with other departments. of

20:16

yours, what is there to hide? There

20:18

should be nothing to hide. Item number

20:20

three on the bill is described as

20:23

fixed detention and reception centre investment. That's

20:25

civil service speak for finding space to

20:27

detain people while they wait for a

20:29

flight that might never take off. Since

20:32

the last attempted flight, Parliament has in

20:34

some cases reluctantly passed laws paving the

20:36

way for removals to begin. Official severe

20:38

marked the last Tuesday in April 2024

20:41

as the point at which people will

20:43

be lifted. For weeks the Home Office

20:45

has been emptying the estate to create

20:47

capacity, processing claims or relocating people into

20:50

hotels to make space for those who

20:52

have been identified as suitable for a

20:54

one-way trip to Kigali. And so, on

20:56

a brisk spring morning all over the

20:59

country, People thinking that their asylum claims

21:01

are being processed make their way to

21:03

reporting centres. On most occasions it's a

21:05

straightforward visit. You check in, sign your

21:08

name and leave. It's designed to keep

21:10

track of people who, because of the

21:12

delays in the system, have to wait

21:14

for months and months to find out

21:17

if their application has been successful. But

21:19

on this particular Tuesday, the Home Office

21:21

has something else in mind. As asylum

21:23

seekers were taken away in handcuffs, protesters

21:26

sang their support for the men. It

21:28

was filmed by a friend of the

21:30

man just about to be led out.

21:32

He was loaded into an immigration detention

21:35

van. He'd come for his regular fortnightly

21:37

appointment at the home office building in

21:39

Loughborough when he was detained. Once they're

21:41

rounded up and sent to detention centres,

21:44

the government has a 28-day window to

21:46

get them on a flight to Rwanda

21:48

before people can start seeking bail. The

21:50

clock is ticking and once again those

21:53

working on the policy think it might

21:55

finally happen. The laws have been passed,

21:57

the planes have been secured and the

21:59

people were locked up. It's true that

22:02

legal challenges were... slowing things down but

22:04

there was a hope expectation of breaking

22:06

the log jam. And then of course

22:08

he called the election and we were

22:11

just like why? You could have gone

22:13

until January and if this was your

22:15

key priority you were pretty close. I

22:17

think we would have got some people

22:20

out. There may not have been many

22:22

people on it but a flight would

22:24

have gone. And that was that. Total

22:26

spend £445 million pounds. People sent zero.

23:34

What makes a great pair of glasses?

23:36

At Warby Parker, it's all

23:38

the invisible extras, without

23:40

the extra cost. Their

23:43

designer quality frames start

23:45

at $95, including prescription

23:47

lenses, plus scratch-resistant, smund-resistant,

23:49

and anti-reflective coatings, and UV

23:51

protection, and free adjustments

23:54

for life. To find your next

23:56

pair of glasses, sunglasses or contact

23:58

lenses, or to find the Warby

24:00

Parker store nearest you, head over

24:03

to Warby parker.com. the

30:02

UN. The cost of the legal

30:04

challenges mount up with every

30:06

case whether the home office

30:08

wins or loses and when

30:10

combined with everything else that

30:12

takes the total spend to

30:14

715 million pounds. People sent

30:17

zero. Except that's not strictly

30:19

true. Some people did go. We

30:21

paid for them. That call centre

30:24

back and forth you heard at

30:26

the start of the episode was

30:28

a real script. used by home

30:30

office officials to entice failed asylum

30:32

seekers to volunteer for a one-way

30:34

trip to Rwanda. We're told this kind

30:36

of package is not unusual, but the

30:38

fact of pushing this specific country is.

30:40

For critics this is further proof

30:43

of, as one well-placed source put it,

30:45

the insane level of resources that went

30:47

into just proving the concept, there were

30:49

loads of people in the home office

30:51

making phone calls and using this script.

30:53

But the concept was never proved. Sending

30:56

volunteers who have gone through the system

30:58

and failed is not the same as

31:00

deporting people the minute they arrive and

31:02

leaving it to a third country to

31:04

figure out if they have a legitimate

31:06

case. There are some who still believe the

31:08

policy remains viable. If we

31:11

enact all the legislation and properly

31:13

operation lies, it is fundamentally a

31:15

policy that can work. The uptick in

31:17

the number of returns, thanks to the

31:19

changes that have been made, shows that

31:22

it's perfectly possible to remove people. Others,

31:24

who think it could have worked, but

31:26

that its value was only as part

31:28

of a suite of measures, which ultimately

31:30

got sidelined in the Tories' pursuit of

31:32

a headline-grabbing flight. I reject the idea

31:35

that the policy itself was fucked. It

31:37

was a sensible policy concept but just

31:39

became totemic and wrapped up in a wider

31:41

thing. There is a world in which it would have

31:44

worked, if Boris and Priti had seen it

31:46

through. But would it have ended the migration

31:48

problem? No. They were treating it like a

31:50

silver bullet like a talking to a mate. There

31:52

are many who believe Rwanda was a costly

31:54

red herring and that resources should have been

31:57

focused elsewhere. If they'd put more energy into

31:59

speeding up decision-making... Would Ryan

34:23

Reynolds here for Mint Mobile.

34:25

The message for everyone paying big

34:27

wireless way too much. Please for

34:29

the love of everything good

34:31

in this world stop. With

34:33

Mint you can get premium

34:35

wireless for just $15 a month.

34:38

Of course if you enjoy

34:40

overpaying, no judgments, but that's

34:42

weird. Okay, one judgment. Anyway,

34:45

give it a try at

34:47

mintmobile.com/switch. Up front payment of

34:50

$45 for three month plan,

35:19

Support for this podcast and the

35:21

following message is brought to you

35:23

by E Trade from Morgan Stanley.

35:25

With E Trade, you can dive

35:27

into the market with easy-to-use tools,

35:29

$0 commissions, and a wide range

35:31

of investments. And now there's even

35:33

more to love. Get access to

35:36

industry leading research and insights from

35:38

Morgan Stanley to help guide your

35:40

decisions. Open an account and get

35:42

up to $1,000 or more with

35:44

a qualifying deposit. Get started today

35:46

at E trade.com. Terms and other

35:48

fees apply. contact

36:09

lenses, or a new prescription, new you

36:11

know where to look. To find

36:13

a Warby Parker store near you or

36:15

to book an eye exam, book head over

36:17

to head over.com slash retail. retail.

Rate

Join Podchaser to...

  • Rate podcasts and episodes
  • Follow podcasts and creators
  • Create podcast and episode lists
  • & much more

Episode Tags

Do you host or manage this podcast?
Claim and edit this page to your liking.
,

Unlock more with Podchaser Pro

  • Audience Insights
  • Contact Information
  • Demographics
  • Charts
  • Sponsor History
  • and More!
Pro Features