0:00

Hey, it's Justin. Welcome to the

0:02

Sonic podcast. We have got one

0:04

of our Mixcon presenters

0:06

for you today, an interview that I

0:08

did with them as part of

0:10

Mixcon. I hope you enjoy it. Before

0:12

we get into it, it is a

0:14

holiday sales season, so I want

0:16

to let you know that we have

0:18

our own sales on our courses.

0:21

Check out Mixing Breakthroughs right now. Get it at mixingbreakthroughs.com.

0:23

.com. It will change the way that

0:25

you work forever, for the better, guaranteed

0:27

or your money back. You'll learn to

0:29

mix quicker with better results, more creativity and

0:31

more confidence than ever before. And if

0:33

you don't agree, just write support, say, I

0:35

want my money back just to sell me

0:37

a bit of of goods you will get

0:39

your money back. I I don't even

0:41

have to know about it. So all come

0:43

with that 30 day money guarantee. Also,

0:46

out compression breakthroughs and EQ breakthroughs. if If you

0:48

want to learn how to hear those effects

0:50

like a pro and how to use them

0:52

like a pro. And of course we've got mastering demystified

0:54

those of you who want to learn mastering.

0:56

If you don't know which one to start

0:58

with, just go ahead and start with mixing breakthroughs. Check

1:00

out .com. Also quick

1:02

shout out thanks to our friends over at

1:04

Soundtoys sponsoring again this month. Their holiday sales

1:06

have just started as well. And right

1:08

now they have the lowest price that

1:10

they have ever had on their complete Soundtoys 5

1:12

bundle. These are some of my favorite

1:14

creative mixing effects in the known universe. so check

1:17

them out over at .com. and

1:19

check out our courses at -throughs .com.

1:21

Without any further ado, let's get right

1:23

into it. Here's this week's episode. Hello,

1:27

hello, it is Justin Colletti of Sonic Scoop and

1:29

I am here with one Dennis

1:32

Jones a.k.a. Rock A.M. to his friends as

1:34

Rock A.M. He is a producer,

1:36

engineer, mixer, artist, really most notable I

1:38

think these days as a a mixer.

1:40

He's a tremendous number of mixing credits

1:42

a whole bunch of super huge artists,

1:45

not only in stereo, but also in

1:47

Atmos. he's been doing a ton of

1:49

Atmos mixes, only on new

1:51

releases but also on some classic catalog releases

1:53

So excited to have you here Rock. How you

1:55

doing today? Feeling good,

1:58

man. a pleasure to be here and just. to

2:00

connect with the people, man. That's just what

2:02

it's about. So So you so much for having

2:04

me. Yeah, pleasure, man. to have you

2:06

here. And we are going to be connecting with the people

2:08

you guys can type questions into the chat box. I'll

2:10

be reading them out, taking all the best questions and

2:13

giving them to rock. Before

2:15

we get into it, I I some questions of my own. And

2:17

And before I get to the questions of my own,

2:19

I got to give a couple of quick shout outs.

2:21

big shout out thanks to Cali for sponsoring this one. Rock

2:23

just did a masterclass. case you missed

2:26

it, there's a main master class.

2:28

We've got the link down there in

2:30

the comments and in description. Check that

2:32

out. He did about an hour and

2:34

15 minute masterclass, about mixing. He mixed a

2:36

track top bottom in there, showed us everything

2:38

he did. Really pretty much all

2:40

in the box using plugins. And he took

2:42

it first stereo for the first minutes.

2:44

minutes. He He shows a stereo process and

2:46

then he breaks into breaking it

2:48

out into Atmos. These sponsors on this

2:50

one that make it free to the

2:52

public were Cali Audio. And they are very natural

2:54

fit because Cali probably makes some of

2:56

the most affordable performance pro monitors

2:58

out there. So if you want to get

3:00

an affordable Atmos system, Cali you're a great way to

3:02

go. Just real quick, how

3:04

did you hook up with Cali? What do you

3:06

think of their monitors? Have you used some of their

3:08

monitors and do you have any favorite models or

3:10

favorite things about them? Yeah,

3:13

man, funny story with Cali Audio. I,

3:15

you know, I didn't really know

3:18

the history or anything about them

3:20

just off of you know, knowing just looking up

3:22

speakers and stuff like that. But I

3:24

was in LA, I was in LA. I was back

3:27

and forth from LA to New York a lot

3:29

And I ended up renting an apartment like in

3:31

Santa Monica, a little small space. And

3:33

I'm like, man, I I really need like

3:35

to be able to like to music

3:38

or do something here. I was working

3:40

at a big studio. So I

3:42

to have something at home. So I

3:44

was like, you know what, let me go

3:46

online. Let me see, you know, what's

3:48

available in in near field of range, something

3:50

that's not too evasive, you know, in

3:52

an apartment complex. And

3:55

came across Cali Audio's INU

3:57

and Fs. the I -N

3:59

-U -N -Fs. that a is a turn Very

4:02

very interesting speaker that they created

4:04

and it caught my attention just from

4:06

the design shout out to Charles

4:08

John All the guys over at Callie

4:10

audio Um, and I was

4:12

just like what the hell are these

4:14

like these two little eyeball looking things

4:16

and what is this box? So I

4:18

did some research and I was just

4:20

looking at uh all of the

4:22

videos, and I think Produce

4:25

Like A Pro did a dope review

4:27

on them. And I was like, oh, these

4:29

are the speakers I need for my

4:31

house. Like, this is gonna work. Um

4:34

So I had them in my car like I

4:36

know a lot of us do and they were

4:38

in my car, in my car and I was

4:40

just procrastinating and I'm buying them. And

4:42

then my assistant was just like, yo

4:44

man, shout out to Dylan. He

4:46

was like, why don't you just like reach out to

4:48

Callie Audio and just, you know, see if you can connect

4:51

with him. And I was

4:53

like, all right, we'll see. So he reached out to them. And

4:55

then I got an email back from Lev,

4:57

who was like runs all the marketing. And

4:59

he was actually like. He

5:01

was like, wow, you're really interested in these.

5:04

And I was like, yeah, I read all the

5:06

reviews and I'm just like, I think these

5:08

are for me at home. And he

5:10

was like, I'll send you a pair. I'll send it out

5:12

to you. was like for I was like, for real? He's

5:14

like, yeah. sent them out to me, I'm

5:17

package them, on the box and it

5:19

amazing. And you know I tried them out

5:21

tried them out and I'm just like. You

5:24

know, the concept of what Cali

5:26

Audio does is like what true heart

5:28

heart, like this is what is what I

5:30

believe and when it comes

5:32

to music is just like things

5:34

for everyone. So. getting

5:37

speakers, you know, I'm like, you these two little

5:39

eyeballs, which are like tweeters and then you

5:41

got this bass unit. But people typically

5:43

thought that it was a sub that's just ideally

5:45

like we think. but yeah so it was actually just like the

5:47

the sub, yeah. Yeah, so

5:49

it was actually just like the

5:51

the main like driver and then

5:54

you know. After hearing it and listening

5:56

to them, mixing and I started mixing and

5:58

doing my stuff at home. on on and

6:01

was really cool about it was that they

6:03

so designed for much in for like apartments and

6:06

rooms that they came with this

6:08

like map and can put the map

6:10

down and you can place the

6:12

unit depending on how you wanted

6:14

to arrange it on your desk and

6:17

was like pictures so it's like a

6:19

user -friendly thing and it showed if

6:21

your room is shaped in an L shape or your

6:23

room is shaped like this if there's desk

6:25

is here this is how you would

6:27

want to tune the speakers when

6:30

saw that I thought that was just so cool

6:32

because I can always remember

6:34

and and of like when I to

6:36

get into music and how I wanted

6:38

to understand just the technicalities of

6:40

just like tuning how should my speakers be when

6:42

you're new it's of like it's a little

6:44

tough you know what I'm saying so they make

6:47

it so simple and easy which kind of

6:49

gateways to like understanding like alright this

6:51

is how tuning work I just thought it

6:53

was innovative and I was just like man

6:55

I really like this company hung out with

6:57

them a couple of times and it just

6:59

felt like they were like real people and

7:01

they manufacture and do everything right here in

7:03

California you know what saying so was a

7:05

big me get to see the process of just

7:07

everything that they were doing and they're

7:09

continuously making innovative products and affordable products

7:11

for the people for people who want

7:13

to get into music so so

7:16

yeah thanks to those guys and I I

7:18

know that the room that you

7:20

were in there at the Los Angeles

7:22

recording school they out their whole Atmos

7:24

system with Cali's and their way to get

7:26

into Atmos but of getting to Atmos

7:28

I think what you've really built

7:31

some of the trajectory of your career off of

7:33

is just the amazing number of Atmos you put

7:35

out in such a short time on some

7:37

really major releases so

7:39

a few questions here I want to ask

7:41

you about how you got into that but

7:43

before I even ask you that give

7:45

me a sense of what's like to work

7:48

on a catalog something that's already been released

7:50

in the past was a hit record already now

7:52

you're tasked with taking the mix and

7:54

turning into an Atmos mix why does that process look

7:56

like are you getting a really original multitrack are you

7:58

getting stems you working off of stereo masters What's

8:00

that usually like? What

8:02

been some really hard ones? What been some really easy

8:04

ones? And there any you're particularly proud of? Yeah.

8:07

I mean, just recently,

8:09

last night, I just finished

8:11

up a new additions catalog with

8:13

Jimmy Jam, actually. We were in the studio

8:15

together. Shout out to Jimmy Jam. And

8:19

it's crazy because, you got

8:21

into Atmos because like I got

8:23

into Cali Audio, I had

8:25

the opportunity to kind of see a different perspective.

8:27

And And just like, wow, Atmos sounds of

8:29

cool. This is like the revolution

8:32

of music, possibly. know what I mean?

8:34

And I And I very uninspired at

8:36

the time. So I was looking for

8:38

like a new route. So getting into

8:40

that, you started doing catalog. And what's so

8:42

sick about it is that you

8:45

literally go into the past, right? And

8:48

you know, you to see how things were done back

8:50

then. You get to see how the sessions

8:52

were set up. You get to see all the

8:54

notes, all the documents. And I had no

8:56

idea that's what I was going to get into. But

8:59

because was so so with Atmos, I

9:01

got really, really good at it.

9:03

And I started to do it

9:05

for labels. And it became a big

9:07

thing for catalog, learning and understanding catalog

9:09

and how it's like the major kind

9:11

of like revenue stream of like

9:13

the music industry. Oh, yeah. Atmos Atmos

9:16

a big playmaker it was part of

9:18

like repackaging. You You do your box sets, you

9:20

your vinyls, and then you you got audio.

9:22

So coming into immersive audio is like, we're going

9:24

to reimagine this would sound like, right? We're

9:26

going to reinvent this. And from

9:29

my perspective, I always kind of look

9:31

to like something as if it was

9:33

coming out today. So So

9:35

typically, you work in a catalog, and

9:37

it's a very, very sensitive thing.

9:39

I I mean, I worked from your

9:41

Sinatra dealing with their estate, which

9:43

are really, really amazing people. James

9:46

Brown, Like everyone has their own kind of

9:49

thing. So So you to have to like your

9:51

due diligence and and with whoever

9:53

the estate is or the A&Rs or

9:55

managers, and then start from there. And

9:58

pretty much the way works is you

10:00

would get the that start from the very

10:02

beginning this is place called the old store from

10:04

the very beginning this place call Iron Mountain the the yeah

10:06

well so let's start there you get

10:09

a call hey we need the assets

10:11

for this new addition project someone goes

10:13

to iron mountain they pull all the

10:15

tapes do digital transfers from multi turn

10:17

the tapes whatever it is and then

10:19

a lot of the times I would

10:21

have to remix everything that I have

10:23

from the multis to match the stereo

10:25

now if I have creative control I

10:28

can match the stereo and enhance it

10:30

to make it sound a little bit

10:32

more modern because obviously there were you

10:34

know the mixes that they were doing

10:36

are very different from what they are

10:38

now which is really cool so it's

10:40

kind of like when you get into

10:42

it you kind of move a little

10:44

bit backwards in terms of mixing because

10:47

you go back in time so then

10:49

I found myself doing research and I'm

10:51

like what reverb were they using back

10:53

in 1970 or what compresses were they

10:55

using or I would even go to

10:57

like pictures of like the artists in

10:59

the studio and like zoom in on

11:01

the gear that they're using looking at

11:03

the board and I would try to

11:05

emulate exactly what that was just to

11:08

match the feel and then kind of

11:10

in a hybrid sense do what I

11:12

love you know what I'm saying so

11:14

new addition was a really good example

11:16

of that because I got that all

11:18

multi tracks mixed everything back to stereo

11:20

and then I put it in at

11:22

most and jimmy jam we brought him

11:24

in because obviously he produced a lot

11:27

of this stuff and we sat down

11:29

with him to get the approval and

11:31

that's like to do gelatin and the

11:33

respect that you have to do especially

11:35

working on catalog like I wouldn't I

11:37

would be very upset if you know

11:39

another person was working on something that

11:41

I built from the ground up and

11:43

reshaping it re -imaging reimagining it without my

11:46

consent or even me knowing so you

11:48

know I always like to reach out

11:50

and like go and talk to whoever

11:52

it is that was a part of

11:54

that and we sat down and we

11:56

had kind of like we went back

11:58

in time, man. I mean, I played a

12:00

record. He told the story about it.

12:02

We got it all on video and stuff

12:05

too. It's come out. And he's just

12:07

like, yeah, man, is is what happened. You

12:09

heard that right there? Like is what

12:11

happened when that happened. And, you know, we

12:13

of got, we built like

12:15

musical chemistry to of get

12:17

what he wanted and what he remembered

12:19

that really made that record iconic and

12:21

of like mesh with what I did. I

12:24

did a lot of enhancements like with

12:26

the low end, bringing out vocals and things

12:28

like that. And when you have the creative

12:30

control, that's when Atmos can really be

12:32

very interesting and people can see the perspective

12:35

on it because a lot of times it's

12:37

like people are just thinking, okay, Atmos, you can

12:39

put things here, here, left and right, but you're

12:41

literally just recreating music and building

12:43

a new story. You know, comes

12:46

from Atmos, it's been around for

12:48

some time. You You got film, Dolby Vision,

12:50

all of stuff. And when I

12:52

remember watching a film and thinking of

12:54

Atmos, you're thinking thinking of 5.1, this is all

12:56

about fields, it's all about about harmonics. So I kind

12:58

of pull pull same attributes into what I'm

13:00

creating. And I want to paint a new

13:02

picture, create a story and give a a

13:04

new feeling to the record. And people will

13:06

just feel like they're inside of the

13:08

music now. Yeah, that makes

13:10

a lot of sense to me. And I

13:12

that you're trying to make these stuff. sound Sound

13:15

like it was made today, because it - because honestly, even

13:17

if you to respect it and make it

13:19

sound like it was made back then, that

13:21

could be really hard, number one, to to

13:23

even get there. then And then of all, even

13:25

if you did that, sensibilities

13:27

are different than old old sensibilities. And

13:29

certain records that I hear and

13:32

I kind of wish that they were remixed again

13:34

today with low and stuff like that. But then there's

13:36

certain records that are of their era and I

13:38

don't want them messed with like, I think of, you

13:40

know, like some 60s or 70s or

13:42

70s, like Al or James Brown. And I'm like, I

13:44

want that to stay the way it sounds. Like

13:46

the production quality is part of it. But then

13:48

there's other records, where I'm like, like, want that

13:50

amped up. I wish that they were mixing this today.

13:52

so. So. Yeah,

13:54

absolutely man. All

13:56

right, so question here. what have. been

14:00

of your favorite projects that you've done

14:02

so far. You You the one with

14:04

Jimmy Jam recently doing New stuff, which is big

14:06

for anyone who knows, you know,

14:08

R R&B from the, oh, man, what is New

14:10

Edition's career spans 80s into 90s into 90s and

14:12

even later or what's the arc of

14:14

that career? Yeah, 80s

14:17

into 90s, they released some stuff in the 2000s.

14:19

So it's been time man. but um, like

14:21

I said, I'm also a producer.

14:24

I'm an artist. So like, When

14:26

I see, imagine just being able to

14:28

go back and like look at Michael

14:30

Jackson's session. You know what I'm saying? Yeah,

14:32

sure. And I And I was geeking out with

14:34

Jimmy Jam, I'm like, yo, he's like,

14:36

they labeled all of the stuff that we

14:38

were using. He like, yeah, that was the D50. That

14:40

was the Jupiter. This was the vintage Juno. And

14:42

I'm just like all this stuff down. And I'm

14:44

like, you see my cart right now and Reverb.

14:46

Like Like, I wanna buy all of these. Yeah,

14:49

I hear it. You know, as a,

14:52

I think at Atmos, the thing,

14:54

not that it's a

14:56

misconception, but You know, I

14:58

came into Atmos and obviously, you

15:00

you know, engineer, you're mixing,

15:02

but I think Atmos is

15:04

more, more on production and

15:07

arrangement and kind of like, it's something

15:09

new because when I jump

15:11

into it and I listen

15:13

stuff. like the that it gives

15:15

me and the inspiration, it just

15:17

kind of unlocks and opens doors to

15:19

just just everything. When I go back

15:22

into my stereo mixes, like still thinking

15:24

I'm mixing in Atmos, you know what I'm

15:26

saying? And I think that was really

15:28

one of the things that I

15:30

really appreciated from diving deep into it

15:32

and and really to do, just to

15:34

just create what I wanted was because I wanted

15:37

the inspiration and I need something to to back

15:39

to stereo with. So it was kind of like

15:41

an anchor for me. And now I just

15:43

kind of toggle between the two and like for stereo, I'm

15:45

like I need my stereo stuff to be

15:47

just as immersive as Atmos, you know what I mean,

15:49

Right. right? Yeah, and some of

15:51

these moves that you were making sounded

15:53

pretty immersive. you know, Even

15:55

of the immersive things you're doing with the

15:57

background vocals, we can really feel the vibe.

16:00

Maybe if we're on just headphones or two

16:02

speakers. and And some of the things you

16:04

learn about how space can work can inspire

16:06

you to bring that feel into stereo. I

16:08

have a couple of questions too

16:10

some of the the records because

16:12

we were just talking about

16:15

like an artist-like new edition, But you also,

16:17

at your discography here, there's records

16:19

that you've worked on for

16:21

more recent artists. So immersive mixing

16:23

for Justin Bieber, for Jay-Z and Rihanna on

16:25

Umbrella, Keisha Cole, these relatively

16:27

recent records, particularly we look at

16:29

some of these Rihanna records that

16:31

were released in 2016. Now

16:34

we're talking about Modern Era. It's

16:36

less catalog. I And I the sessions

16:38

back then it's so much easier potentially

16:40

to get a record starting off

16:43

closer to where it where it sounded

16:45

in the stereo mix. So the approach

16:47

for really modern record that released in

16:49

2016, 2018? Is that process different

16:51

than when you're going vault diving and literally

16:53

getting the tapes back from the Iron Mountain?

16:57

Absolutely. It's not it's like almost a

16:59

night and day experience because

17:01

records, they're already processed.

17:04

know mean? mean? they're already already

17:06

So So you're mixing, you're

17:08

kind of adjusting what you're bringing into

17:11

the immersive space. You know what I'm

17:13

saying? And it's fun too. there's a lot

17:15

of the thing with new records is

17:17

you kind of have like a lot

17:19

of just creative incentive on like

17:21

rebuilding and creating a story out

17:23

of that music, right? it more cinematic

17:25

and And with the artists, I think

17:27

now what they what they should

17:30

start doing and what I hope

17:32

is going to start happening is

17:34

that thinking about Atmos and immersive audio in mind

17:36

they're creating their albums and work. because

17:39

Because can go so far with that.

17:41

You know know I'm saying? I just

17:43

think about like how I watch TV and how

17:45

I watch film. And you know, And

17:47

I'm just like watching it visually. But

17:49

now I can listen to the music

17:51

and almost kind of get the

17:53

same kind of reaction of watching of watching

17:55

a film based of what's happening immersively around

17:57

me. So it's an exciting time. music

18:00

and technology and the perfect

18:02

time because you know, with everything going

18:04

on, it's just like we're need of just like

18:06

sort of a new revolution when it comes

18:08

to like music. We've been in stereo

18:10

for what, like 50, like 60 years. 60 years. We

18:13

were in mono for X amount

18:15

of time and they went to to stereo and they

18:17

were like, why do we need two speakers? That's crazy.

18:19

Then we made headphones, which I heard headphones

18:21

was like a mistake that even supposed

18:23

to happen. So I think we're

18:25

due for something new, specifically

18:27

music and technology, aligning

18:30

parallel. It's just up to

18:32

us, the creatives, the artists, the producers,

18:35

influencers to kind of just build and

18:37

work on it and and

18:39

say, oh, this doesn't sound good. Like we need

18:41

to just make it great, you know? Mm

18:43

-hmm, yeah. I could ask you a million

18:45

more of my own questions, but I want

18:47

to turn into some questions from the

18:49

audience. First that came in during your masterclass

18:52

and we'll get to some that are coming in right now.

18:55

So from Timothy Davis

18:57

had a couple. When

18:59

you were to work on the snare sounds

19:01

on your track, he was asking, what's

19:03

the best way to isolate a snare tone

19:05

when the mic is picking up high

19:07

hats and other drums? Any tricks or tips

19:10

there? And this was a live drum

19:12

kit production. You had a pretty clean snare

19:14

sound. But what are your best tips

19:16

for making snare work when there is bleed

19:18

from other elements in there? Yeah,

19:20

definitely. I mean, if you

19:23

can manage the recording, obviously a a

19:25

good recording is number one, you know?

19:27

but after post, it's all about

19:29

I just I do a lot

19:31

of side chaining you know, gates inside

19:33

chaining. Sometimes experiment

19:35

with like, you know, denoisers

19:37

and things like that, or like RX, if

19:39

it's like bad. But mostly I get

19:42

something that's when it's bleeding, I'll

19:44

use like a gate and it with

19:46

like band compression and EQ make it

19:48

sound natural and bring things back

19:50

in. So, yeah, sweet.

19:53

thing I'm going to shout out here real quick, just

19:55

cause I've been to hit people to this cause guys

19:57

came on this channel not so long ago. It

19:59

was these photos. Folks from AIX DSP.

20:01

They had this thing called multi-band gate

20:04

and soon as I saw this thing, I'm like,

20:06

oh goodness, this is so obvious. How come

20:08

no one invented this before? But it's basically

20:10

a three -band gate. And I found this

20:12

to be extremely useful for things like symbol

20:15

stuff like that, because you can have a separate

20:17

gate for just the high frequencies and

20:19

a separate gate for the the mid frequencies. So you

20:21

can get so much more control where you

20:23

can have a really hard gate in the

20:25

high frequencies, but it doesn't interrupt like the

20:27

mid range of the snare. So is a super cool

20:29

I think, for people who are doing that

20:31

stuff. And it's a lesser known one. think

20:33

everyone should own this and every plug-in should be

20:35

making something like this. But until then, I I

20:37

definitely recommend it. AIX DSP -band gate. I I didn't even

20:39

find out about came on this channel to

20:41

show it to me. And as soon as I

20:43

saw it, I'm like, I have to tell everybody

20:45

about this. Wow. Did you try it

20:47

out? What was that? Did

20:49

you try it out yet? Oh, yeah, absolutely. It

20:51

works surprisingly well. I mean, mean, it works like a gate,

20:53

but better and easier. I I mean, it just has

20:55

all the same controls as a gate. but

20:58

let me see if I can zoom in on it a tiny

21:00

bit here. Can I do

21:02

that? Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. All right.

21:04

Yeah. So it just has your threshold, attack, hold,

21:06

release functions you would on a a gate, but

21:08

you can set that separately, including the threshold

21:10

for each band. And it's just like

21:12

if a gate was easier to use and

21:14

sounded better. That's what this thing is. So

21:16

I'm shouting out for those guys. Also,

21:19

you ever use sample augmentation? I don't

21:21

think you were doing any snare samples on

21:23

this particular track for this artist, but

21:26

is sample augmentation replacement, something you do? No,

21:28

I've done. I've done that in Atmos the

21:31

past. I Wasn't really a big

21:33

fan of it just because

21:35

I just I feel like it

21:37

takes away from a lot

21:39

of the true art form. I'm

21:42

a true believer in of using what you

21:44

have. And if you're if the music has

21:46

those, you know, residences or the bleeds, then you

21:48

got to work with it, man, because that

21:50

takes away the vibe. You don't want

21:52

things to be too robotic, you know, then

21:54

you lose soul and feel you talk about

21:56

James Brown. It's like, you don't want to be adding

21:58

like another, you know. bass player

22:00

like sound or drum sounds on

22:02

of his stuff And that

22:04

stuff was super raw, super uncut. and you

22:07

like there's nothing better than

22:09

that. You know what saying so I'm

22:11

a true believer in organic sound. All

22:13

right, dig it. Timothy a

22:15

second question here. He says, I'm also

22:17

wondering how rock identifies a frequency that might

22:19

quote work And that's something that you brought

22:21

up in there your and finding these frequencies

22:23

that you felt like needed little cuts, doing

22:26

multiple little cuts in the mid range. do you

22:28

find out where you should be cutting and

22:30

by how much and where do you

22:32

know to look? Yeah, so

22:34

it's all a combination. mean, again,

22:36

today's technology, there's so many

22:38

ways to set yourself up, right? So

22:40

as you can see what I was doing

22:42

in the of Pro-Q, which is known

22:44

for, you can find targets for just

22:46

anything that's out of the ordinary that

22:48

they identify. And then you just verify that,

22:51

right? That's one way. Oh,

22:53

the way and the way you should always do

22:55

it is just listening right? You listen to the

22:57

record, you solo it you hear what it sounds

22:59

like up against all of the music and

23:01

you identify like where that that you know

23:04

that wherever it is where you want to

23:06

take out where it's coming from And then

23:08

you start testing it from your solo, you

23:10

do sweep, and you just start

23:12

to see what it that you're listening to that

23:14

you hear. But that's all ear training. You gotta

23:17

know what the stuff sounds like and and where to

23:19

find it. And that takes time

23:21

and experience. it's just, you know, day

23:23

to day, it's just like practice, man. Like

23:25

every time I'm doing a session, anytime

23:27

I'm mixing. either it's

23:29

for a professional, indeed it's always practice

23:31

me because I'm constantly learning, constantly

23:33

identifying new sounds and training my

23:35

ears. So more you train your ears, the

23:37

better you'll get at subtracting frequencies

23:39

and things that you don't like.

23:41

And at the end of the

23:43

day too, it's your preference. Some

23:45

people like that really harsh like topping.

23:47

Like I know some, you know, rappers,

23:49

rappers, drill rappers or the newer like

23:51

futuristic rappers, they like harsh topping.

23:53

They like exaggerated bass that blows

23:56

your subs. get subs, you

23:58

know, it's all preference. And if

24:00

you're creating and curating a sound,

24:02

that's what you should focus

24:04

on. Obviously there's standards and things

24:06

that people do, but again, I'm a true

24:09

believer in just crafting what you believe

24:11

is right, so. Yeah, fair

24:13

enough. Here's a question from

24:15

Mike Farren asks, how do you find a

24:17

good level to put the kick and bass

24:19

at so that the limiter in the

24:21

mastering stage doesn't eat up the whole mix?

24:24

So he's asking about, I I guess on his mixes,

24:26

kick and bass, which have the most level out

24:28

of any instrument, especially if you're not eating some

24:30

lows out of them, they're triggering

24:32

his limiter crazy. So do you you do

24:34

that, get a kick and that feel

24:36

loud, present, bombastic, but doesn't

24:38

crush the rest of the mix when it's getting

24:40

hit by a mastering limiter? I

24:43

mean, I don't think there's, I

24:45

don't I don't I don't really believe

24:47

in finding the level for the bass and

24:50

kick. I think it's all about a balance,

24:52

right? You should start off when you're

24:54

mixing, you know, at a lower DB. know, if

24:56

I used to kind of like at the

24:58

colors, right? But I don't like to get

25:00

too visual. And I'm like, yo, let me

25:02

make sure that is that, you know, like

25:04

a minus eight, which is like green or

25:07

just tapping on yellow. Cause

25:09

then as you're building and you're adding stuff,

25:11

you're increasing more and more volume. So

25:13

if you start low you build moderately and

25:15

you kind of toggle and create balance,

25:17

you'll be able to kind of gauge like that,

25:20

with that, when that bass is starting to

25:22

hit the, you know, your and starting to

25:24

peak. And And then be able to

25:26

turn it down without having it it too crazy

25:28

and and then to backtrack and remix everything again.

25:30

And I think that's the problem is knowing

25:32

how to set up your mix and start.

25:34

So you don't have to have those issues

25:36

cause all you're doing is just really toggling and

25:38

you, you have the bass like in the

25:40

beginning when I was working, right? I had

25:42

the base where I wanted it, like right

25:45

at the beginning, but I knew that wasn't

25:47

going to be it because I'm like, all music

25:49

has come in, the vocals have to come

25:51

in, but this is going to be my starting

25:53

point. And then obviously I'm going to remember, let

25:55

me get back to the bass. me go back

25:57

and let me tweak as I'm doing all of

25:59

the other stuff. so I can keep that balance

26:01

and keep everything cohesive. Yeah,

26:03

that makes a lot of sense. Just a

26:05

tiny thing I would add from the mastering perspective,

26:07

because I do work as a mastering engineer,

26:09

and I would say that the big thing that

26:11

happens for me when the kick or the

26:13

bass is hitting things way too hard at the

26:15

mastering stage, it's often because the mixer is trying

26:17

to get all of the impact of the kick

26:19

and the bass from the low end. And I

26:21

think one thing that you realize do well in

26:23

your mixes is that really making the kick and bass

26:25

audible isn't necessarily about putting a ton of

26:27

60 Hertz, 100 80 hertz, it. hertz into it. It's

26:29

often finding a place in the mid range that instrument's

26:31

supposed to speak. So we

26:34

get into this trap of, I can't hear the bass, I'll

26:36

just turn up the volume, and you're turning up all this

26:38

60 hertz that you don't even hear on

26:40

your speakers. You might have, I I don't know

26:42

if you're mixing on NS10s or whatever they are or

26:44

some small system, maybe you don't even hear that

26:46

level of bass that you're getting, but it's definitely

26:48

hitting the meters and the mastering engineer and

26:50

his big speakers are gonna hear it. So

26:52

instead of sometimes just boosting kick bass, finding a

26:54

place they're supposed to speak and in the

26:56

mid range boost that instead of the overall level

26:58

can be a good way to get the

27:01

more audible without, you know, just hammering the

27:03

mix with a ton low All

27:06

right, I'm not sure how

27:08

pronounce this username, but JixerDee maybe says, I I

27:10

know that Rock had a

27:13

bunch of life -changing moments up to now, but

27:15

I was wondering which moment he thought of

27:17

as being a turning point for him that

27:19

changed either he

27:21

were, the way he works or what kinds

27:23

of opportunities he has, any big turning points

27:25

in your career that you can point to whether

27:27

either success wise or way

27:30

that you approach mixing wise, anything like that? Yeah,

27:33

absolutely. I think

27:35

my moment was

27:37

when the Rihanna came

27:39

around and I always

27:41

had this theory when I was just

27:43

like, you always wanna be

27:46

the guy that that everything no one wants

27:48

to do. Cause then when you look

27:50

around the room and and people look

27:52

around the room and see you, that's your shot, right?

27:54

And I kind of of my career

27:56

off of that because I had no

27:58

intentions on being an engineer. Like was an

28:00

artist. still am and did it because I

28:02

didn't want to pay for studio time and I just really

28:04

good though um No,

28:06

one thing led to another.

28:09

I remember this was 2021 2020

28:11

is either 21 or 22 around Super Bowl

28:13

time Rihanna was doing Super

28:15

Bowl. and And, you

28:17

know, we were ending the

28:19

quarter with the label labels usually the quarters,

28:21

like mid-December whatever the case is.

28:23

So I got an email from one

28:25

of the execs really good friend of mine, and

28:27

he's like, hey it was a

28:29

mass email. He's asking a bunch of engineers, like, are

28:31

you guys gonna be around for a holiday? just

28:34

know and see who's around, just in case. anything

28:36

comes up. and And this is Christmas

28:39

and I'm just like, you know, I'm like I'm

28:41

around. And even if I wasn't gonna be

28:43

around, I still said and

28:46

You know, I I remember it was like December was

28:48

the date and and You

28:51

know, he took, he I was one of the

28:53

people that replied and he I I woke

28:55

up one day and I'm checking my

28:57

email And I see like email

28:59

like with CC from from rock nation all

29:01

of of stuff. And they're like, oh

29:04

here's Rihanna's catalog. We need this done

29:06

pre Super Bowl for release that

29:09

I'm just like, what So

29:12

I call like are you serious? this like

29:14

entire catalog in my email? want me

29:16

to mix this? He's like, yeah so

29:20

did that It was

29:22

really cool and a great experience because

29:25

I partnered with people

29:27

from Apple music shout out to profit shout

29:29

to shout out to reflex They

29:32

came in and they were really like

29:34

some supporters in this with me

29:36

on the approval process. Jay

29:39

Brown was involved and it was just

29:41

such a crazy journey, It it really

29:43

pushed my limit because we were on

29:45

a serious time crunch and I mixed

29:47

about like four 5 albums but I ended

29:49

up like mixing an album a day so I

29:51

was working like 15 hour days.

29:54

like rush rushing But like bulletting these

29:56

albums because we wanted

29:58

to hit that that target

30:00

time deadline to be for Super Bowl.

30:03

And then like we to figure out like how

30:05

we're get Rihanna to listen, if she's gonna listen,

30:07

if we can get Jay Brown to listen.

30:10

And then it was cool because we were

30:12

like figuring out ways to, you know,

30:14

get them in the studio. And obviously she

30:16

was, we didn't know she was pregnant

30:18

but she was pregnant with her baby. And

30:20

I think she didn't want it to be

30:22

public. So So wasn't coming out to the

30:24

studio. And, you know, she wasn't letting

30:26

herself be seen. So

30:28

remember going to like Best Buy and

30:30

buying an Apple and getting a Sonos set

30:32

up. And you know, the guys

30:34

over, the engineers over at other rooms,

30:36

at other place, they went and set up

30:39

like an entire immersive set for Jay Brown to

30:41

listen to. So we had to like

30:43

do the mixes, bounce them out to MP4s, put

30:46

them on an iPad. I would give the

30:48

iPad to the people at Apple Music, they

30:50

would go take it to Jay

30:52

Brown's house to play through the

30:54

Sonos system, which we use Sonos systems a good

30:59

reference you know,

31:01

just to see, playback listen. And

31:03

that's how we did the approvals. know

31:05

what I mean? And from there, the

31:08

music came out. It

31:10

was probably one of my best

31:12

kind of like catalog projects.

31:14

And because we rushed and not

31:16

human, a lot of things happened.

31:18

There were errors. It this is record, I

31:21

think it was called Faded. And I I

31:23

it was like a Pro Tools bounce

31:25

but it kept repeating. Like it

31:27

was like looped, and it was like

31:29

distorted. So way

31:31

we found out about it was on

31:33

Twitter, Rihanna's fans were like,

31:35

they were digging all of the mixes,

31:37

but like her fans was like, what

31:39

is going on with Faded? And And they were

31:42

crazy on Twitter. So I get an

31:44

email like, fuck the morning and like, this is

31:46

already out. They're like, what's wrong

31:48

with this song? And I'm like listening.

31:50

I'm like, oh, shit. I don't know

31:52

how this happened. but right then and there, I'm out

31:54

bed 3 of .m. And I fixed

31:56

it, re -uploaded it. We got it

31:59

back. You know, and I'm just

32:01

like wow, the fans really the true quality

32:03

control You know what I mean? That

32:05

I started to listen and pay attention to

32:07

like what they were saying and it kind

32:09

of you know feedback key You know, we

32:11

we all kind of like We

32:13

have our egos, We have our insecurities But it's

32:16

always good to get perspective and to see

32:18

what other people are saying That's why I was

32:20

telling you Justin like I love doing this

32:22

because I've never really done a masterclass. I didn't

32:24

even want to call it a master class because

32:26

I'm not really a teacher kind of person

32:28

I'm just like yo, let's have a session. Let's

32:30

lock in, let's have a session. it's good to

32:33

see perspective and what people are saying and

32:35

the feedback because then you can that feedback

32:37

And you know take it with a grain

32:39

of salt or you just you know

32:41

You kind of like build off of

32:43

whatever you think is right or wrong

32:45

about that and And that's what music is.

32:47

what building in this in this industry

32:49

is and we need a lot more collaboration

32:51

and just people, you know And communities,

32:53

you know making it better, but Overall, thing

32:56

was huge Super came out

33:00

Apple had the audio And

33:02

really put me at a really high

33:04

pedestal in my career Where they were

33:07

like I we like this guy and

33:09

I started working with other people like

33:11

her you You know and and I

33:13

spiked just different artists through that So

33:15

that was that was great and continuously

33:17

staying humble working with more and more

33:19

people And I love to really do

33:21

things that I don't normally work on

33:23

too, because a non-traditional approach of creates something new, you

33:25

know, I mean people say they're like, yeah,

33:28

this is kind of wrong, but

33:30

it's like it's not that it's wrong

33:32

It's actually just different, you know, so.

33:34

Yeah, totally. I hear

33:36

hear a beautiful stuff Jordy has

33:38

another question which is Can

33:40

you think of anyone, catalog

33:43

artist, really love to mix their album

33:45

in Atmos that haven't gotten to yet Are

33:47

there any any names you want to name of records

33:49

that you'd love to be able to

33:51

do the Atmos mix that? Haven't been done

33:53

in at most yet Man,

33:56

I uh, I

33:58

would say day. It's It's

34:01

not really deep, deep catalog, but

34:04

Kanye is one of

34:06

the people that I would love, like

34:08

808 and Heartbreaks. That was like one of

34:10

the the breakthrough albums and And He

34:13

really changed the paradigm a

34:15

little bit with sound, going back

34:17

into that 80th synth 808s. I

34:19

would love to jump into that and listen

34:21

to that in Atmos. Um I

34:24

remember, I'm not sure if Aerosmith, Steven

34:26

Tyler's stuff was in Atmos, but we

34:28

were like doing some stuff

34:30

with his singles and he he

34:32

came in the studio one

34:34

day. and Like meeting him, I

34:36

was like, yo, this guy is literally made

34:38

for this format. he he just of like right

34:40

into it. But like of the people who

34:42

are very just out there and just

34:44

already had space and stereo, like

34:47

like music will be just phenomenal

34:49

in most. So yeah,

34:51

I believe that. All right A

34:53

couple questions that are coming in live

34:56

right now uh... Louis V.I. says, Rock, my brother

34:58

you what is the one one plug

35:00

in? Oh my God, Louis you He

35:03

says, what is the one plugin that you

35:05

have to have when working in the immersive

35:07

space that you can't live without? Soothe.

35:11

Soothe. Soothe.

35:14

Soothe. sooth, Soothe. And Soothe,

35:16

because I I

35:18

guess the curve, with the immersive

35:20

curve, when you bring things

35:22

out. out, They tend to

35:25

be a a lot harsh on the top end

35:27

of the spectrum. Um And,

35:30

And you know, like with backward vocals,

35:32

with certain, you know, instruments.

35:35

And I think it has something to

35:37

do with just like close it is

35:39

to you. or and just I I

35:41

guess, I guess just the curve,

35:43

just the standard curve. But But Soothe

35:45

is something that I put on

35:48

everything that's in the immersive space,

35:50

because it can be a

35:52

little bit like aggressive and it

35:54

can just pull back instead of

35:56

like EQing removing a lot. and

35:59

doing a lot. lot. of spectral, like a lot

36:01

of surgical stuff because you don't want to

36:03

like the field. So I'm sued like a

36:05

really good key player. I toggle play with

36:07

it a lot in immersive

36:09

space between vocals, synthesizers,

36:12

sound effects, all of that

36:14

stuff. Yeah, got

36:16

it. Good stuff. All

36:18

right. Another couple of questions coming in

36:20

here for you. Jedidiah

36:23

is of a statement. He says, man, engineers

36:25

are going to need to learn Atmos. And

36:27

he's saying the way that we've really

36:29

got to do is start incorporating it our productions.

36:32

And that's a great way to think if

36:34

you want a great Atmos mix, thinking about space

36:36

at the the of recording and producing makes

36:38

a lot of sense. 100.

36:41

All right. A lot of

36:43

people here saying for all this stuff.

36:45

And Jedidiah also says

36:47

most can be so intimidating. It's hard to

36:49

know where to start. I have to rewatch

36:51

session again. I'm so glad we're recording these.

36:53

So do you have any tips for

36:55

someone who's going to try to bridge

36:58

the gap? They've been working in

37:00

stereo. They want to try their hand

37:02

at doing at most projects. Are

37:04

you going to recommend people to seek

37:06

out an at most specialist mixer? Should

37:08

they think about building out an

37:11

Atmos in their own space? they are building out an

37:13

at most setup in up in their own space, they

37:15

want to do the work themselves. Do you have any

37:17

tips for those people? Yeah.

37:19

So the thing. Atmos

37:22

is if you have Pro Tools,

37:24

at most is accessible, right?

37:26

They're updated to where there's

37:28

an internal renderer, You

37:30

have access to it. Listen

37:32

to Atmos binaurally, That's how I started,

37:35

right? Started

37:37

messing around with it. I a ton of videos.

37:39

and this was like three,

37:41

four years ago. So the videos were very

37:43

different. I was watching stuff in different languages. And

37:46

I just kind of took a lot of that

37:48

and put it into the perspective of what I

37:50

was doing. And And I

37:52

listened to Atmos the first time that I

37:54

had stuff that I worked on on in

37:57

an actual room, then I was like,

37:59

holy shit. I see what this is,

38:01

right? so now start on a

38:03

laptop get a feel of what it

38:05

is by normally try to match what

38:07

you're listening to in the stereo, but give

38:09

it give it thought of just how I

38:12

gonna enhance this. And then once

38:14

you're able to get into a room,

38:16

or build your room, study the translation

38:18

between headphones and the room, which is what

38:20

I did. And then if

38:22

you wanna build a room out early

38:24

on, it was kind of like, this

38:26

is a $100 ,000 thing, plus plus, plus,

38:29

But with technology and all companies

38:31

kind of like in on

38:33

atmos it's extremely affordable. like

38:35

a set of Kali audios the LP sixes all

38:37

their series, they have a bunch of

38:40

different packages now, and they're actually

38:42

promoting that like on like sites like sweetwater and stuff

38:44

like that. Get yourself a really

38:46

good interface. If you don't want go

38:48

too expensive, you can get something mid midway

38:50

I think the key with that

38:52

is the conversion. Apogee

38:54

they just released the Apogee

38:56

studio, which amazing I

38:59

mean I've listened to it during a yes

39:01

did some tests and listen and and uh, you know

39:03

Apogee known for their conversion So, you know, you

39:06

will want get an interface that can

39:08

actually handle you know Whatever your is gonna

39:10

be. there. It's 714 all the the way

39:12

up to 916 or whatever the case

39:14

is. And then you know

39:16

Just experiment start minimal and experiment. There's

39:18

a lot of you know Room

39:21

EQ Wizards that came out specifically

39:23

for immersive audio So if you're concerned

39:25

about how to EQ it is a

39:28

lot of that. and Dolby, you know have

39:30

such a huge reliable Resort like

39:32

a bunch of resources on their

39:34

website and with Dolby Institute on

39:36

how to get atmos up in

39:38

your home, either is DIY or

39:41

in a professional setting. So, um, just

39:43

any new thing you want

39:45

to geek on, any new set of gear,

39:47

whatever You know you just do your research

39:49

and do diligence and and see and find the

39:51

starting point that's comfortable for you. And

39:53

then you just start from there and leverage. Read

39:56

be doing another Q &A this Thursday. coming

39:58

up with the guys from Cali Audio

40:00

and the guys from Audient about exactly this

40:03

idea getting started in Atmos, like how

40:05

much does it really cost. And the, with

40:07

the Cali Audio monitors, with the LP

40:09

series, you're talking about monitors that are like

40:11

150 bucks each. So you need a

40:13

bunch of those. But now we're talking about,

40:15

you know, something like three to $5 ,000

40:17

in monitors and maybe another 3 ,000 ish

40:20

interface potentially. Yeah, Apogee is one of

40:22

the ones that Nate from Cali mentioned is

40:24

being an affordable option these days for

40:26

interfaces. Another one he mentioned was Audient. They

40:28

have this new, I think it's called

40:30

an Aurea interface and the Audient guys are

40:32

going to be on that live stream

40:35

too. And we're going to be answering all

40:37

the questions for people who are interested

40:39

in getting into Atmos. How much would it

40:41

really cost? What do you really need

40:43

in speakers in converters in your interface? Why

40:45

do they have to be careful of?

40:47

So if you've got questions about that tune

40:50

in for Thursday, make sure you hit

40:52

like and subscribe and hit the notifications bell

40:54

so you can be alerted to that

40:56

video when it's coming out. All right, another

40:58

question here from Mike that just came

41:00

in appropriately about Mike's. I know you're not.

41:02

I don't think you're recording as much

41:04

as mixing these days. I know as an

41:07

artist, you're probably recording yourself. I think

41:09

most of your work for others is mixing.

41:11

Correct me if I'm wrong. But he's

41:13

asking, can we ask Rock what Mike's he'd

41:15

recommend for today's sound? So any micro

41:17

recommendations for people out there? Man,

41:20

it's it's not really recommendation. It's

41:22

really like what you like. You

41:24

know, I me personally, I like

41:27

vintage gear, like vintage bikes, like

41:29

a vintage U67, which is like

41:31

probably like 12k right now. That's

41:33

like something I love. I love

41:35

tube microphones, but it all depends

41:37

on what you're doing. know what

41:39

I mean? A lot of rappers,

41:41

they like you 87. They like

41:43

your unique tube tech. know, my

41:45

thing is just, you know, there's

41:47

like that time was, you know,

41:49

hey, this is the standard. This

41:51

is what everyone's using. And try

41:54

to like go out the box

41:56

a little bit and seek something

41:58

different because sound, you know. It's

42:01

already kind of like as it

42:03

is when a lot of like

42:05

things kind of of sound alike then sonically it

42:07

can sound alike too So I

42:09

just like man get stuff and and buy

42:11

things that no one else has even if

42:13

it's like And you can

42:15

build a lot of companies actually build gear

42:17

like you can really up like audio or

42:19

Stan audio tell them what you want. and

42:21

And they'll like something for know what I mean?

42:23

So So just do

42:25

your research and just try

42:27

stuff, practice. And that's

42:30

just what I believe in I I

42:32

don't think there's any like to to

42:34

mics or gear to use like

42:36

not Yeah, I I Hear and

42:38

thing that I got to recommend that I I

42:40

feel like I might not have recommended in the

42:42

past, but I was really amazed when I

42:45

was trying it recently, Doing an on this channel, of

42:47

the different modeling mics there out there, and

42:49

there's basically the universal audio of the slate and

42:51

the antelope and if you don't know

42:53

the difference in the sound between a

42:55

u67 and a u87 and then and a U87

42:57

and then 149 Sony c800 Sony g even just

42:59

like a thousand bucks and some of these are less

43:01

than a thousand bucks these days, what a learning

43:04

tool they are to like through a whole history of world

43:06

of microphones and get a sense for what types

43:08

of mic sound best on your voice or what kind

43:10

of direction to lean in. Even if it doesn't

43:12

become your only mic, I mean, and even if

43:14

you use it for, a a year

43:16

and then sell it for another mic Just

43:19

much you can learn but I gotta

43:21

say some of those models are so

43:23

close to the real thing that they

43:25

can be real Real nice asset well in fact,

43:27

I learned about the u67 using the slate

43:29

because that was my travel mic And

43:31

I always wanted to have options, right When

43:34

I was in a hotel Whatever and I had the

43:36

to cut like record or a demo. I I

43:39

learned that the UA7 was a good

43:41

mic for my voice because I I really the

43:43

bottom and the low end and body that it has.

43:45

I'm not really a guy that really

43:48

likes harshness. I like dark music. I like I'm

43:50

dark mixer I like to play things a

43:52

little bit louder than usual. So

43:54

um that that was me and I learned

43:56

to do slate you know that's actually a

43:58

really good point there. to experiment and see

44:00

what, and there's a lot, lot, there's a lot

44:02

out there with the mic mods, but for

44:04

sure. All right,

44:07

Joy says rock! exclamation

44:09

point. Jordy

44:11

says, do you see yourself stepping into

44:13

mixing sound for movies, or do you

44:15

think you wouldn't be as interested in

44:17

that? Well, I'm

44:19

actually experimenting now. I've

44:21

done some short films already, very

44:23

small stuff. I've sat in

44:25

on sessions for like documentaries and stuff, and I

44:27

was just at a convention recently,

44:30

film and post convention at Sony, connecting

44:32

with a bunch of composers and

44:34

editors and sound guys. and I think

44:36

that's gonna be what's next for

44:38

me, And, for me

44:40

is like, when I like to come into

44:42

a new job, a new anything, right? like

44:44

to analyze everything that's going on, and I

44:46

like to see what's the void, right? and

44:48

I think there's some sort of a

44:50

connection and music people

44:53

working in film, and film people

44:55

working in music. Because if if

44:57

doing it now, right, like

44:59

Atmos came from film, now it's

45:01

in music, and we, you

45:03

think it's something that's reciprocated

45:05

there that we need to actually

45:07

explore. So, and I always,

45:09

always heard like film

45:11

people who work on music, music people

45:13

work on film. so yeah, that's

45:15

definitely next for me for sure,

45:17

and Atmos created that opportunity. Yeah,

45:20

man, the grass is always

45:22

greener, you know, is studying singing videos,

45:25

And, and you was watching some videos, and and like,

45:27

man, it seems like every baritone singer wishes they

45:29

could hit those high notes like those tenors and

45:31

every tenor singer wishes they could hit those

45:33

low notes like those baritones, you know? Yeah. That's just

45:35

how it is, no matter what you're doing. All

45:38

right, Mike Farron asks,

45:41

do you pay attention to how dynamic

45:43

a song is when mixing? And

45:45

I'll add on to that one, do

45:47

you have particular loudness targets, and that

45:49

that change for Atmos mixing versus mixing?

45:53

Yeah, mean, as far as

45:55

loudness targets, I really don't pay

45:58

attention to the loudness until... like

46:01

the target of it until

46:03

the end. If I have

46:05

to meet spec in stereo, very different.

46:07

know, I I usually to aim

46:09

for like minus, like CD minus nine,

46:11

minus eight, maybe even tap in

46:13

seven, depending on the mix. And

46:16

most you have to stay at

46:18

between negative 18 and 18 .5.

46:20

And I kind of of this because

46:22

I was so used to hearing

46:25

things cohesively at those levels.

46:27

But when you understand the technology,

46:29

you you can't be as loud

46:31

in the immersive space. Cause what

46:33

happens is if you create

46:35

an array of objects in one

46:38

part of the room, what

46:41

happens is if things

46:43

are too loud, it'll tend to distort

46:46

in that one area and it would

46:48

just kind of be just a big blob

46:50

of just sound that just wouldn't sound

46:52

good. And those are the key things

46:54

that comes into just most is making sure

46:56

that the levels are accurate so things

46:58

can play cohesively and nothing gets unbalanced. I

47:01

think with with technology that's going to

47:03

be innovative very much

47:05

soon, but they're also following

47:07

a lot of just like, you

47:09

know, the the film rules were pushing limits

47:11

a little bit more because music.

47:13

And there's other formats out

47:15

there. You know, you have like

47:18

Sony 360. you got, I think it's think

47:20

Aura 3D something like that. But

47:22

like other tools that are out there

47:24

where you don't really have

47:26

to follow those guidelines. But,

47:28

you know, it's just all

47:30

just picking and choosing. You're,

47:32

you're poison and seeing the

47:34

reaction is. So So I

47:36

have a question here about mixing

47:39

Atmos then having that go

47:41

down to like a stereo

47:43

binaural render. I had heard

47:45

that initially was trying

47:47

to roll out releases where they would

47:49

be playing the stereo render of

47:51

the Atmos mix default on people's headphones and

47:53

and laptops. And then there was a a

47:55

lot of people searching for, what my

47:57

favorite record not sound. the same as

47:59

it used to. to and then

48:02

people were to figure out how to turn it off.

48:04

And I'm not sure where to start. don't actually listen to Atmos

48:06

on Apple Music. Most of my listening here in the

48:08

studio is off of Spotify and Spotify is

48:10

what I've been using. I used to use Apple

48:13

Music back in the day, in the but I

48:15

switched more recently to Spotify. I might switch again,

48:17

I might try try or something, but majority

48:19

doing Spotify. I haven't checked in

48:21

with Apple Music in a while are

48:23

they still playing Atmos renders

48:25

by default? Are people switching between that

48:27

or is it playing the stereo

48:29

mix by default? What's What's on there? Yeah,

48:33

I mean, so a setting on

48:35

your iPhone that It's

48:38

an automatic setting for

48:40

Adobe Atmos music, right? And you

48:42

have, but you have to have, to get the

48:44

real experience, you gotta have one of the Apple products,

48:46

which will be like AirPods Pro

48:48

the Pro Maxes that support it.

48:51

I think that happened and

48:53

I think it was genius because thing

48:55

is, anything that's different, mean,

48:58

you're talking about people who

49:00

have demoitis and stuck

49:02

to whatever you know, whatever this is,

49:04

right? Whatever the song is. And.

49:06

And you got to people a a different

49:08

perspective. I think that was a test to kind of

49:10

see like, all all right. everything's

49:12

immersive audio. Let's see how people react to it

49:14

If they like the difference, just to get data

49:16

and get feedback, because we need the feedback,

49:18

right? And also to people

49:20

accustomed and used to immersive audio.

49:22

That's another thing too. Those

49:25

mixes are different. know, they're not

49:27

the same. and it takes used

49:29

to. My

49:31

thing is, I love what Apple

49:33

did because they of like technology

49:35

with music. And they said, said,

49:37

okay, we're going to this form. we're gonna

49:39

do this format. immersive

49:42

audio called audio And

49:44

they have like the

49:46

head stuff and creating

49:48

an experience you know and I'm in

49:50

the gym gym out. and I'm like going to

49:52

tie my shoe and listening to the It's like

49:55

I'm under the song now, now. You know what

49:57

I mean? mean? it's like like that. And that's like and

49:59

that's like That's where we're going.

50:01

mean, we're we're getting robots we're getting

50:03

like robo cars, like we're in the future.

50:05

You can't run away from

50:07

it. You have AI, you have Apple intelligence.

50:10

I just think we just need to

50:12

get behind all of of stuff and and

50:14

learn how to use it as tools

50:16

to just innovate the future of entertainment sound

50:18

you know, all of that. So yeah.

50:21

That is wild. You know, I I definitely see

50:23

wanting the immersive experience of turning around and the

50:25

song moves with me and the bass players front

50:27

of me and now I move to the right

50:29

Now the bass to my left. And I could see

50:31

wanting to explore that, but I could also

50:34

see being a regular consumer and I'm making my commute.

50:36

I'm walking to the subway and I turn

50:38

around the corner and then the whole band is

50:40

in a different place. And And I didn't want

50:42

that. Maybe that's surprising for me. So I'm glad that they

50:44

at least have the choice. But

50:46

another question I have here is

50:48

about adapting stereo to Atmos versus other

50:50

way around. I have a

50:52

theory here and I don't know this me

50:54

speculating, but I kind of feel like

50:56

it's always going to make the most

50:58

sense to do the stereo mix first

51:00

and the Atmos later because in my experience work, I

51:02

haven't done much in but I definitely around

51:04

surround back in older formats where you had, you know, seven,

51:07

two, one and you know, five, one and all that

51:09

stuff. And in those systems, it

51:11

was so much easier to mix in

51:13

a way because you didn't have to do

51:15

all this EQing to fit things just into

51:17

two speakers. Like you could use the pan to move

51:19

things. and it's so easy to get separation

51:21

when you have all these other speakers. So

51:23

you end up not as hard to make

51:25

everything fit because there's all real estate to fit

51:27

things in. But my fear is if you do

51:29

that first and then just expect it

51:31

to fold down to a good binaural render,

51:33

then you're now all of a sudden trying to

51:35

fit all that back into two speakers and you're

51:37

going to hit a bottleneck, which makes

51:39

me think that the best practice is probably

51:41

always going to be get a mix

51:43

that works on two speakers. once

51:45

it really works on two speakers, then blow it out

51:47

for the Atmos. Do you have thoughts on that? I

51:50

mean, it's it's all subjective. I

51:52

think that right now that

51:54

is the case because you know, the

51:57

tech isn't there yet, right? And

51:59

it's eventually. Gonna better. I I mean by beats by

52:01

listening. It's gonna become much better It's gonna

52:03

become more of the experience that we

52:05

create in the studio But we have to

52:08

be able to feed it It's just like

52:10

we're feeding a out. We got to feed the

52:12

data so we can make these products better.

52:14

I I had an experiment. I

52:17

mixed. I don't know you guys guys

52:19

heard of pitch perfect It's perfect

52:21

bumper in Berlin It was

52:23

like a NBC series I

52:26

mixed the entire album for

52:29

the soundtrack for the show and It

52:31

was the opportunity that

52:33

I had to mix it

52:35

from at most and Downfold into

52:37

stereo and binaural and no one

52:40

no one really knows that I did that And

52:42

that's what I did and it sounds amazing

52:44

and it worked and the reason why it

52:46

worked was because a lot of this project

52:48

was like They were like hitting

52:50

pots and pans and stuff. It was

52:52

a lot of stuff like that It was

52:54

actually really cool and fitting for it Kind

52:56

of kind of know what what what the

52:58

target is and if it's possible and just

53:00

in this experiment if it sounds good, so

53:02

be it if not go to the next

53:04

thing But it doesn't hurt to try and

53:06

that's what I did and worked out in

53:08

my favorite things I've done kind of like

53:11

what you were saying, you know You bring

53:13

what we fold all stuff down It's kind of like

53:15

a circus because now you have all it

53:17

you know, we went from this big real

53:19

estate space to like now we're in a

53:21

little box and it all sounds out of

53:23

whack But I think again with technology

53:25

I think it's gonna be a space for

53:27

that to really kind of like show

53:29

and be the new leading kind of way

53:31

of mixing at some point You

53:33

know most music releases that are coming

53:35

out now I play them on most

53:37

streaming services are on YouTube I likely

53:39

to be hearing the stereo mix unless I

53:41

select to hear at most is it the

53:43

other way around Like was doing where

53:46

they were doing at most unless you select

53:48

stereo Boy, I'm sorry. Can

53:50

you just repeat the second part of that? Yeah,

53:53

so is it on most streaming services

53:55

and on YouTube and stuff like that Yeah,

53:57

but for most music mixes that are done

53:59

in atmos Would I be

54:01

hearing the stereo mix unless I select

54:03

to listen to the Atmos mix or most platforms

54:05

are you hearing the Atmos mix unless

54:07

you select stereo? Which Which way it?

54:09

it? I believe well,

54:12

it depends on what your is

54:14

too. I think that's what's

54:16

important. mean, mean, if you only have a stereo setup,

54:18

you're not gonna hear it, You're not gonna hear

54:20

it it stereo. But if

54:22

you have like a Sonos setup, you're playing it

54:24

through your Sonos, it's gonna

54:27

automatically play play in that format unless you

54:29

take that thing off. I think

54:31

everyone's doing that which sense because

54:33

I wouldn't want to have

54:35

a setup at

54:37

home theater or an Atmos setup

54:39

have to turn it on. You know what I mean?

54:42

what just an extra. It's just an extra And

54:45

And I guess, you know, that's just a good

54:47

way to also I like the systems where

54:49

you can A B just identify the difference

54:51

between two. I think we need a lot

54:53

more stuff like that, which I don't

54:55

think there's pretty there's like, you have like Binaural Renderer

54:57

by Movers. But But

54:59

think more of that technology would be cool because

55:01

then you can kind of like distinguish the difference between

55:03

the two and, you know, see what you like.

55:06

Right, sweet. All right, A

55:08

question here on loudness. You were talking

55:10

about you know, hitting negative to maybe negative seven,

55:12

depending on genre, maybe how much low end is

55:14

in the record, that kind of thing. for

55:17

stereo. then negative 18, which

55:20

is really dynamic for Atmos. there

55:22

a less of a volume war with Atmos

55:24

or is it still about making things? Hey,

55:26

we're gonna get to get to 18 But I'm

55:28

gonna have the dynamic range of negative negative

55:31

nine with a lower peak level Or

55:33

are things allowed to be more open and

55:35

dynamic because there's less a being. that like

55:37

as far as loudness compared to other

55:39

records? There's no loudness war

55:41

in Atmos. not Not yet, at least. Like,

55:45

you know, there's actually this

55:47

new tool that

55:49

just came out, the thing

55:51

made, is called Immersive, mixed

55:54

immersive, or Immersive Mastering. I can't really

55:56

think of the name, I'm so

55:58

sorry, I'm butchering. it. But created

56:01

a tool that I

56:03

started using when you're working on albums. And

56:06

what it does is after you mix

56:08

everything, because I'm not paying attention to

56:10

specs or nothing like that in the immersive

56:12

space. And like you said, you have

56:14

the real estate for it. You have

56:16

the space constantly in The fight is to

56:18

put everything in his pocket. So it's

56:20

easily done. Once that's done, you can easily

56:23

just trim everything down to minus 18 to

56:25

meet spec. And it works in atmos. Can't

56:27

really do that in stereo because you'll

56:29

lose a lot, right? But

56:31

I think because of the real estate

56:33

that we have, you can do that.

56:36

There's other tools out there like the has

56:38

a tool that they have. called the there's

56:40

a tool that they have. I'm

56:42

so sorry. I'm messing up all

56:44

these names. I'm looking at them. It's

56:47

called the Album

56:49

Assembler. It's also

56:51

a really cool tool to

56:54

use when you're doing albums, you can of

56:56

call it put everything all your ADM

56:58

files, all your stereo files

57:00

together, AB, the ADM is stereo files. They

57:02

have a limiter, They have EQ, you

57:05

can do do everything right there

57:07

live, you know, right after you bounce everything

57:09

out of Pro Tools. And you can

57:11

put everything into spec stuff like that. So

57:14

I think as of right now, we're

57:16

it's just like we get the

57:18

Atmos done. It's so much so many

57:21

that we're not worried about volume. It

57:23

just can't be anything above like that

57:25

18 mark 18 or, know, gotcha.

57:28

Understood. All right. Well, Rock, this is so

57:30

great. You've been so generous with

57:32

your time. You gave us a

57:34

fantastic masterclass that premiered today. This Q&A been awesome.

57:36

You've really gone some great detail with

57:38

your answers. I'm going to call

57:40

it here because we've been taking your

57:43

time up for almost an hour here. So I really

57:45

appreciate it. Before Before

57:47

let you go, are are there any parting words you have

57:49

or any places where you'd recommend people keep up with what

57:51

you're doing? Yeah,

57:53

man. mean, you can go to go and

57:55

type in Google Rock that a.m. It's a

57:57

domain. That's my website. It

58:00

shows every part of me from

58:02

my artistry to my production, to

58:04

my engineering, or all my credits. I

58:07

also just started a nonprofit

58:09

called Never Give Up organization and

58:11

pretty much this, like what we did

58:13

today, bridging people, creatives, and when

58:15

I say creatives, I mean everyone

58:17

because we all create and have

58:20

some art form within us, giving

58:22

them resources to technology, understanding how

58:24

to use those resources, aligning them

58:26

with business dynamics so that they're understanding

58:28

how they can get into whatever

58:30

industry they want to get into. And

58:32

there's a whole lot of mental

58:34

health awareness that's involved in it.

58:36

I'm working on applications and things

58:38

to use specifically for high creatives

58:41

and people who are just into contemporary

58:43

art, all all of this great

58:45

stuff. And you know,

58:47

believe that right now is a

58:49

time where we have the opportunity to

58:51

make changes, you know what I'm saying?

58:53

And And you know, everything that we have

58:55

and people coming together and trying

58:57

new things, we can really change the

59:00

industry and make it better, make

59:02

it more of revenue,

59:04

you know, more revenue,

59:06

more direct to artists finding new

59:08

jobs and new ways to do

59:10

things. So So the organization is just

59:12

to align people just with opportunity

59:15

and just the opportunity with yourself really, you know,

59:17

an inside job because that was

59:19

the that I had kind of

59:21

coming up this industry, not having the

59:23

resources or being insecure because I thought

59:25

a little bit differently. So

59:28

check that out. TheNeverGiveUp

59:30

.org, that's the website for it. It

59:32

is a landing page right now, but

59:34

if you leave your email, you

59:36

can just type it in, your leave

59:38

your email and stay up to date

59:40

with what's happening, what classes are going

59:42

to be happening, what launches we're going

59:44

to be doing, going to be to be

59:46

some cool stuff in 2025. And there,

59:49

that's really it. I'm making music right

59:51

now, working on a project, just released a record

59:53

called TLC. And I know

59:55

just experimenting right now because

59:57

I'm super inspired. and and

59:59

really want to use my

1:00:01

music as the driving tool

1:00:03

for everything that I'm doing

1:00:05

in the tech music space. So

1:00:07

So keep up and reach out

1:00:09

if you have any questions, I'm

1:00:11

fully accessible. Sweet man. it was

1:00:13

absolutely great to have you here. looks

1:00:16

like I'm just losing your picture, so I'm

1:00:18

gonna move over here, but really great

1:00:20

to have you here, man. And big thanks and shout out

1:00:22

to Cali Audio. They the ones who made this

1:00:24

totally free to the public. I'm bring them

1:00:26

up on here on screen again. I to remind you

1:00:28

guys of a few things. One,

1:00:30

we are giving away more than

1:00:32

$5 ,000 worth of free gear in

1:00:34

the Mixcon Mega Giveaway. So that out. We'll

1:00:37

have the link to that in

1:00:39

the description and in the comments down

1:00:41

below. Also, we've got more Mixcon

1:00:43

coming. There's another master class coming up

1:00:45

next week. And actually this Thursday, if

1:00:47

you are interested in the Atmos we're going

1:00:49

to be doing a whole episode on

1:00:51

outfitting your studio with Atmos, if that's

1:00:53

something that you're interested in. Check

1:00:55

out Cali Audio, They make great stuff. They're

1:00:57

LP series probably some of the best bang

1:01:00

the buck small monitors out there. I think

1:01:02

some of these are as cheap as in stores. in

1:01:04

stores. I'm a big fan of the IN IN series.

1:01:06

These are just incredible. I have a pair

1:01:08

of IN8s and great. I

1:01:10

mean, they're not my main mastering

1:01:13

monitors. I have even more expensive

1:01:15

mastering monitors, but I could absolutely

1:01:17

master records on these. They go

1:01:19

surprisingly deep, these eight ones. And

1:01:21

they have our three speaker with coaxial design,

1:01:23

which is really phenomenal. They

1:01:25

recently come out with

1:01:28

this new project, Monica. they're higher

1:01:30

speakers And these I think

1:01:32

are going into a lot more

1:01:34

high end Atmos but also as

1:01:36

a stereo monitor. They go shockingly

1:01:38

deep for a five woofer, but really

1:01:40

tremendous speakers, the Santa Monica

1:01:42

series. Also, another thing I want

1:01:44

to hip you guys to is if you want

1:01:46

to support this podcast, the best way

1:01:48

you can do it is by supporting

1:01:50

yourself with one of our great full

1:01:52

-length courses like breakthroughs, compression

1:01:54

breakthroughs, mastering demystified, EQ breakthroughs,

1:01:56

all these are guaranteed to change.

1:01:59

the way that you

1:02:01

work forever for the better or

1:02:03

your money back. There's a 30 day money

1:02:05

guarantee on all those. So definitely check them

1:02:07

out. Also big

1:02:10

shout out thanks to you

1:02:12

for being here And another

1:02:14

shout out thanks to Rock AM. great

1:02:16

to have him here. Oh, and one more shout

1:02:18

out, Man, just of the shout outs here. I've

1:02:20

got to say big thanks to

1:02:22

the Los Angeles Recording School for

1:02:24

hosting this masterclass, us do it in

1:02:26

their space. All right, Thanks

1:02:29

again, this been Justin Coletti

1:02:31

of Sonic Scoop with Rock AM. See you next

1:02:33

time! Hey,

1:02:36

thanks for checking out that whole

1:02:38

episode. Quick reminder for you, mixing breakthroughs

1:02:40

is on sale right now. Check it

1:02:42

out mixingbreakthroughs.com. .com. Check out any of our

1:02:44

great courses like breakthroughs that will teach

1:02:46

you to hear compression in a

1:02:48

totally new way. Or EQ breakthroughs that

1:02:50

will completely change the game for you

1:02:52

on EQ. We've also got mastering demystified you want learn

1:02:54

mastering. If you don't know where to

1:02:56

start, just pick up mixing breakthroughs. All

1:02:58

these courses come with a 30 a 30

1:03:01

day money back guarantee. you have no risk and

1:03:03

absolutely nothing to lose. They will change

1:03:05

the way that you work forever the

1:03:07

better. You will learn to

1:03:10

mix faster with better results,

1:03:12

more creativity and more confidence

1:03:14

than ever before. So check out,

1:03:16

go to mixingbreakthroughs.com. .com. Also shout out

1:03:18

and thanks to Soundtoys. got some great

1:03:20

sales going on right now for

1:03:22

the holiday season with their lowest prices

1:03:24

on Soundtoys 5 ever. I hope

1:03:27

to see you in mixing breakthroughs. Catch

1:03:29

you in the next episode. Marketing

1:03:38

is hard. but

1:03:41

I'll tell you a little secret. doesn't have to

1:03:43

be. me point something out. You're listening to a

1:03:45

podcast right now and it's great. You love the host, you

1:03:47

You it out and download it. You listen to

1:03:49

it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to

1:03:51

the bathroom. Podcasts are a

1:03:53

pretty close companion. And this

1:03:55

is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention?

1:03:58

you can reach great listeners like your. yourself with

1:04:00

podcast advertising from Libsyn ads. Choose

1:04:02

from hundreds of top podcasts offering

1:04:04

host endorsements or run a

1:04:06

pre -produced ad like this one,

1:04:08

across thousands of shows to reach

1:04:10

your target audience and their favorite

1:04:12

podcasts with Libsyn ads. Go to

1:04:14

LibsynAds .com that's L -I -B -S -Y -N

1:04:16

ads .com today.