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on emirates.com today. Hey,

1:11

it's Francis. This week,

1:13

we're taking you back to a

1:16

full episode we did last year

1:18

with the one and only

1:20

Sola Elweili. Have a listen.

1:25

I'm Francis Lamb and this

1:27

is the Splendid Table from

1:29

APM. Sola Elwale has been

1:31

many things in her career. She

1:33

was the pastry chef of one

1:36

of my favorite restaurants in my

1:38

neighborhood, which I know doesn't matter

1:40

a whole lot to a whole

1:42

lot of people, but it's where

1:44

I learned that she was brilliant

1:46

and maybe a little bit devious.

1:49

But after leaving the restaurant world,

1:51

she became a writer. recipe developer,

1:53

and eventually a bona fide cooking

1:55

video superstar. At serious eats, bona

1:57

fide in the Babish culinary universe

1:59

and now at the New York

2:02

Times. She makes ingenious recipes, indulges

2:04

in her deep sense of nerdiness

2:06

by cooking ancient historical dishes. She

2:08

teaches her audience how to take

2:10

pro techniques and make them feel

2:13

completely comfortable at home, and I

2:15

knew people loved to work, but

2:17

I knew it was really serious.

2:19

When I saw one of her

2:21

fans once post, quote, I would

2:23

lay down my life for Sola.

2:26

And now Sola is a best-selling

2:28

cookbook author with a book called

2:30

Start Here, that I can

2:32

assure you was engineered for

2:34

maximum impact, at 5 pounds,

2:36

600 plus pages, and step-by-step

2:38

photos for every recipe. It's

2:41

like a culinary school on

2:43

your shelf. And we are

2:45

spending the whole hour with

2:47

her this week, talking about

2:49

that book, taking your questions,

2:51

and more. Hey Sola! It's great

2:53

to see you! Hey, good to see

2:55

you too. You know, so many people

2:57

know you from your cooking videos, and

2:59

I so love how you've done so many

3:02

different types of videos, and they

3:04

really kind of showcase your personality,

3:06

your life, you know, from your

3:08

love of teaching people to cook,

3:10

you know, I love the ones,

3:12

but you work with your husband,

3:14

ham, and, you know, certainly showing

3:16

off your deep nerdiness for history,

3:18

and just like nerdiness more generally.

3:21

But, um... You know, it occurred

3:23

to me that I have followed

3:25

your work for so long and

3:27

we've known each other for a little

3:29

while, but I don't actually

3:31

know how you got into food and

3:34

cooking. So how'd that happen? Well,

3:36

we're going to go back. We're

3:38

going to take it back. Well, I

3:41

grew up in a house with really

3:43

good food, so that was the beginning.

3:45

My mom is a very good

3:47

cook. I spent a lot of time

3:49

with her in the kitchen, not just

3:52

because I liked cooking, but also because

3:54

it was the one place where we

3:56

really got along, because I was, I didn't

3:58

totally always get along with

4:00

my family because they're very conservative but

4:02

the one place where we could put

4:05

everything aside and click was in the

4:07

kitchen. So that was really the start

4:09

I guess it's when I realized that

4:11

you can really connect with anybody over

4:13

food but I didn't never thought it

4:15

was going to be a career not

4:18

even a little bit. It was an

4:20

emotional connection you had and you like

4:22

recognized that. Yeah I liked

4:24

cooking and like I fantasized about Having

4:27

a restaurant in the same

4:29

way you fantasize about being

4:31

in a band Like you

4:33

don't really think you're

4:35

gonna ever get a

4:37

Grammy You just pretend

4:39

to receive one in the

4:41

bathroom. Yeah, sure. Thank you.

4:43

Thank you everyone. Oh my

4:45

god. I couldn't have done

4:48

it without you my amazing

4:50

producers And God yeah, thank

4:52

God food was going to

4:54

be a career, but I went

4:56

to school for economics, I

4:58

really hated it, and then

5:00

I dropped out. I did

5:02

eventually go back. I have to

5:04

say that on the record. So

5:07

my aunts and uncles, no. A

5:09

family who's listening, no. But yeah,

5:11

I really, really hated anything

5:13

besides food. Like it's the only

5:15

thing that I did that I

5:17

actually wasn't miserable, and then I

5:20

felt like I could be good

5:22

at. So I... I did work in

5:24

like assorted food

5:26

related jobs while I was

5:29

in school, you know,

5:31

like some chain restaurants,

5:33

coffee shops, you know, stuff

5:35

like that. Things you do

5:38

just to get through school.

5:40

But I really wanted

5:42

to get into like fine

5:44

dining. I think after

5:46

I graduated I was

5:49

like super lost. really

5:51

depressed. I graduated in

5:53

2008. So it's like not the best

5:55

time. Not the best time. So I

5:58

just like backed back into like all

6:00

the restaurant jobs I was working at

6:02

a pub and I really just I

6:04

really liked the restaurant environment

6:06

which a lot of people hate but it

6:09

just really worked for me I feel you

6:11

on that I mean like I had a

6:13

similar story in the sense like I had

6:15

an emotional connection to food from an

6:17

early age but never thought it could

6:19

be a career never thought it would

6:22

be you know my professional path But

6:24

same thing, actually, while it was in

6:26

college, I started working at restaurants and

6:28

in like a catering service just to,

6:30

you know, exactly the same thing, so I

6:32

can pay my rent. But did love the

6:35

environment and love the camarader and yes,

6:37

I think we all know, it can

6:39

be super problematic, it can be, you

6:41

know, like the difference between something

6:43

being harsh and tough and you feel

6:46

great with your team because you pulled

6:48

it through together and an environment that

6:50

feels... abusive or feels, you know,

6:52

like the people are being taken advantage

6:54

of, you know, that's a continuum,

6:56

right? So it really just depends on the

6:59

place or even the day where your work

7:01

life fell in that matter. But like, yeah,

7:03

I had some experience to you, which is

7:05

like, it was really hard. And there are

7:07

days when I'm like, I can't do this

7:09

anymore. And there's so many days when I'm

7:11

like, oh my God, I love this. Yeah, yeah. But

7:14

I knew I wanted to. Go beyond like

7:16

the cheesecake factory. Yeah, sure. Or

7:18

go beyond getting fired from the

7:20

cheesecake factory. So I really wanted

7:22

to get into fine dining because

7:25

I like grew up watching that

7:27

PBS show, great chefs of America.

7:29

No, great chefs of the world.

7:31

Yeah, great chefs, yeah. And I

7:34

really wanted to be one of

7:36

those chefs with a paper hat

7:38

making souflets and stuff. I like

7:40

fantasized about having a French restaurant.

7:43

I wanted to get into finding,

7:45

I read about this story that

7:47

Grant Nackett's got his job at

7:50

the French laundry by basically harassing

7:52

Thomas Keller. Yeah. So Grant is

7:54

the chef owner of Olinia, which is,

7:57

you know, one of the great restaurants

7:59

in the world. Thomas Kelly, the

8:01

French laundry, yeah, totally. Yeah, so

8:03

I, that was my initial tactic. I'm

8:05

just gonna go harass people. Yeah, yeah,

8:07

I actually like, I had like a

8:10

stack of resumes and I walked up and

8:12

down venture a boulevard because I thought

8:14

that was a fancy restaurant at the

8:16

time. I'm from the valley, I didn't

8:18

know, you know, I grew up going

8:21

out back steak house, I thought that

8:23

was fine dining, so I didn't realize

8:25

that. Ventura Boulevard restaurants weren't fine dining,

8:27

but in my mind at the time

8:30

they were. So I walked up and

8:32

down Ventura Boulevard harassing all the

8:34

chefs while they're trying to get

8:36

ready for service, trying to get

8:38

a job, did not really work. I

8:41

even asked, I was like, please just

8:43

let me wash some dishes for free.

8:45

It totally, that did not click for

8:47

me, so I ended up going to

8:49

culinary school. Mm-hmm, okay. It felt like

8:51

a good stepping stone into fine

8:53

dining. Which it was. I firmly

8:56

don't recommend culinary

8:58

school to anybody.

9:01

But it's tough because trying

9:03

to get into a lot

9:05

of these spaces, having something

9:08

like that on your resume,

9:10

really does help. But

9:12

most chefs don't do

9:15

background checks, so you

9:17

should probably just lie. It's

9:19

too much dead. It's so much

9:21

dead. It's so much debt, like

9:24

I want to save the young people,

9:26

you know, from, you're going to get

9:28

so much debt from these schools

9:30

and then just die in it because

9:32

you make $8 an hour working in a

9:35

restaurant. There is a real disconnect.

9:37

I think we could have a

9:39

whole conversation just about this for

9:41

sure. But anyway, I definitely want

9:43

to talk to you about your

9:45

book, because your book... You know,

9:48

I don't know if you're intending the

9:50

anti-conorous school thing to be like you

9:52

can just buy my book Because my

9:54

book is basically a corner school between

9:57

two covers My my book was inspired

9:59

by how much I hated culinary

10:01

school. Yeah, nobody go to culinary

10:04

school. Don't get into debt. Definitely,

10:06

don't take out a loan. You're

10:08

gonna be like, oh, it's just

10:10

$20,000. And then before you know

10:12

it, you're buried. Yeah, for $40.

10:14

You could have solo's entire culinary

10:16

school in your brain. Yeah, boom, wow,

10:18

such a great deal. Okay. I totally want

10:21

to get to that. But we also have

10:23

a lot of colors who really want to

10:25

talk to you. So we have Eric on

10:27

the line. And let's check in with

10:29

Eric. Is this live? This is live. Whoa.

10:31

He's a real human. Hello. Hey

10:33

Eric. Hi. Hi Eric. Thanks for

10:35

the call. Well, I can

10:38

get a prize-winning black rabbits

10:40

from a local farmer here

10:42

in Broadrun, Virginia. Oh, wow.

10:44

With a carcasses weighing about

10:46

five pounds. Oh, wow, big

10:48

ones. So I tried using

10:50

Elmer Fuds, hossen Pespher recipe

10:52

recipe, but it was pretty

10:54

tough. And so what's the

10:56

best way to cook rabbit,

10:58

especially deboning the ribs and

11:00

spine, but still being able

11:03

to get to the... Oh, wow. Okay. So,

11:05

Sola, I don't recall you

11:07

having a rabbit chapter in the

11:09

book, but being a lover of

11:12

fine dining, have you cooked with

11:14

rabbit before? I have. And

11:16

I think a rabbit as

11:18

just like really difficult chicken.

11:21

Like first get really good

11:23

at chicken. And then a lot

11:25

of the anatomy is the same. A

11:27

rabbit's body is just longer, but you

11:29

break it down in a similar way.

11:31

You'll find the joints in the same

11:33

way. And it has a lot of

11:35

the same issues that you have when

11:38

you're cooking chicken, but exaggerated. So you

11:40

know, in a chicken, the breast meat

11:42

is very lean, and the dark meat

11:44

is a little bit tougher. But that's

11:46

like, that contrast is like leveled up

11:48

in a rabbit. So white meat on

11:50

a rabbit gets really fast, and while

11:52

the leg meat can be more tough

11:55

because rabbits are running around they get

11:57

a lot of is a lot of power you know

11:59

yeah yeah they They live a life. So I

12:01

think the best way to cook a rabbit

12:03

is to break it down. Separate it.

12:05

I don't like to cook at home because

12:07

I do find that it's harder to get

12:10

like really good out of both the light

12:12

and the dark meat. So I would

12:14

break it down. I recommend being really

12:16

delicate with the loin. I like to

12:18

keep the bones in while cooking

12:20

because I feel like it just

12:22

kind of prevents it from overcooking.

12:25

And for that, go for like

12:27

something. more gentle, like a sear,

12:29

maybe not grill, you know, focus

12:31

on like stove topsy or butter

12:33

base situation just until you

12:35

get to know how to cook that

12:38

loin better, and then the legs, I

12:40

would definitely brace. Give us some time

12:42

to get really nice and tender. Yeah.

12:45

And always dry brine. Everything

12:47

should always be dry brine, especially

12:49

rabbit, because it does have

12:51

these like extra fun challenges.

12:54

Oh, interesting. So do you mean

12:56

just like... salt it as if you were

12:58

seasoning it to cook, but then let

13:00

it hang out in the fridge overnight before

13:02

you actually cook it. Uh-huh, yeah, cover it

13:04

in a nice layer of salt, pop it

13:06

on a rack, throw it in the fridge,

13:08

and then that salt's going to be drawn

13:10

out from the moisture in the meat, form a

13:13

concentrated brine on the surface where it

13:15

gets sucked back in, seasons the meat,

13:17

tenderizes the muscles, breaks down the fat,

13:20

it's going to just like make it

13:22

a little bit more full-proof proof.

13:24

Whenever I'm not sure what

13:26

to do with something, that kind

13:29

of reminds me of chicken, just

13:31

fry it. There's really no, I

13:33

mean, okay, people are gonna get

13:35

on my case about this. There

13:38

is such a thing as bad

13:40

fried chicken, but like I've never

13:42

seen a chicken, like a fried

13:44

chicken so bad that wasn't like,

13:46

like a fried chicken so bad

13:48

that wasn't like, I was sad

13:51

to eat that. That's a fair

13:53

approach. But I would say this

13:55

about the loin, the white meat.

13:57

I think it is very... for

14:00

sure, but I don't think it's exactly

14:02

the same as chicken. So if you're

14:04

getting these wonderful rabbits and you really

14:06

want to highlight the fact that you're

14:08

eating rabbit and not chicken, I would

14:10

think for the, you know, just in

14:12

general, I would do sort of more

14:14

mild-mannered accompaniments and cooking techniques, right? Like

14:16

Zola, you said, dry brine the breast

14:18

or the loin, and then you can

14:20

like, like, sear it, and then, like,

14:23

based it with butter, so cook it

14:25

somewhat with butter, so cook it somewhat

14:27

gently, and really just, that way

14:29

to my mind. Like I

14:31

would just enjoy it for

14:33

what it is and like

14:35

light vegetables. Spring vegetables would

14:37

be super nice. But the legs,

14:40

I'd do like a really nice

14:42

brazed rabbit leg with like

14:44

mushrooms, bacon, some stock,

14:47

onions, and you know, brazen

14:49

food or tender and serve

14:51

that with pasta, like fresh

14:53

pasta, I think is super

14:55

nice. Hicking me hungry now.

14:58

Great. Well, thank you so much.

15:00

Thank you. Thanks for the call,

15:02

Eric. Talk to you later. Bye-bye.

15:04

We'll be back with more

15:06

of our conversation with Sola

15:08

Elwaley, author of Stark here.

15:10

I'm Francis Lamb, and this

15:13

is The Splendid Table from

15:15

APM. A show is supported by

15:17

Emirates. We know you love the thought

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of a vacation to Europe, sitting in

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16:35

I'm Francis Lamb and this is the

16:37

show for curious cooks and eaters.

16:40

We're spending time today with

16:42

one of the modern stars

16:44

of the culinary world, Sola

16:46

Elwaley. Let's get back to it

16:48

with her. You were a pastry chef at

16:51

first, weren't you? No, I was

16:53

savory. Oh, okay. I started out

16:55

savory. Because that's just what happened

16:57

back then. It feels like I

17:00

was in the kitchen such a

17:02

long time ago because it has

17:04

changed so much in the last

17:06

like 15 years. But when I

17:08

started, there was a lot of

17:10

times where I was the only

17:12

girl, so they would just be like, oh,

17:14

just go make a cake. You can

17:16

do that, right? Which, you know,

17:18

to their surprise I couldn't at

17:20

the time. I remember I was

17:23

ex-turning at Del Posto. I was

17:25

on the Asagie line which

17:27

is like their, yeah it's a

17:29

fancy Italian place that doesn't exist

17:32

anymore. Yeah, yeah. Because of the

17:34

controversy. You guys can look

17:36

it up, it's fun. No, I

17:39

was working on like the Asagie

17:41

line which is where you make

17:43

all these little snacks like we

17:46

made like little... What's Aranchini

17:48

situation? Yeah, like little fried

17:51

rice balls and stuff. Yeah, and

17:53

then and some chick-pee things I'd

17:55

barely remember but the they were

17:57

short on pastry so they just assumed

18:00

because I was a girl that

18:02

I knew how to make shoe

18:04

and then they just pad a

18:06

shoe and I had never made

18:08

it before and they were like

18:10

yeah I didn't even know what

18:12

it was they gave me this

18:15

recipe and they're like okay go

18:17

make 4,000 pad a shoe in

18:19

a tilt skillet which I had

18:21

not done before so I just

18:23

wasted like 80 eggs you know

18:25

so you shouldn't assume you should

18:27

assume nobody knows how to do

18:29

anything but yeah so that's really

18:31

how I got into pastry I

18:33

just kept getting thrown at it

18:36

and I did like it very

18:38

much so I rolled with it

18:40

you know sometimes you just roll

18:42

with the punches and it ended

18:44

up being really fun and I

18:46

think it kind of gave me

18:48

a leg up because now I

18:50

feel comfortable with both and did

18:52

you know the book is half

18:54

pastry? I did know that. Whoa,

18:56

crazy. 300 pages of pastry. Yeah.

18:59

So I know you just mentioned,

19:01

you know, working on a tilt

19:03

skillet, which is, you know, a

19:05

kitty pool, this thing that you

19:07

cook in in a commercial environment.

19:09

But like, you don't use those

19:11

anymore. And actually, I think that

19:13

brings us to our next caller.

19:15

Hello. Hey, May, where are you

19:17

calling from? Hey, I'm calling from

19:20

Port Angeles, Washington. Hi, May. Oh,

19:22

right on. What would you like

19:24

to talk about? Yeah. So I

19:26

have a quick question. I'm just

19:28

wondering, what appliances or kitchen tools

19:30

do you both consider must have

19:32

for us amateur chefs out here?

19:34

Okay. So well, I think when

19:36

you're starting out, you could get

19:38

away without having anything that you

19:41

need to plug in. You can.

19:43

I think in the beginning all

19:45

you really need is I recommend

19:47

a solid cast iron skillet and

19:49

I get to know how to

19:51

season it. It's very affordable like

19:53

20 bucks you can get a

19:55

a 10 inch cast iron skillet

19:57

and pretty much cook anything in

19:59

it as well as a Dutch

20:01

oven which they what if you're

20:04

buying a new Dutch oven it

20:06

is very expensive so I've actually

20:08

never bought a new Dutch oven.

20:10

It's very easy to find used

20:12

Dutch ovens at like thrift stores

20:14

or even you can you could

20:16

get a new Dutch oven at

20:18

like a Ross or Marshals that's

20:20

like the last season's color. Oh

20:22

sure yeah yeah yeah that's super

20:25

store. So affordable so don't be

20:27

intimidated by like the $300 Dutch

20:29

oven. It doesn't need to be

20:31

that way And a cutting board

20:33

a cutting board and a knife

20:35

I Believe that is all you

20:37

need and you can cook most

20:39

things with like cutting board knife

20:41

Dutch oven Skilit. Oh, of course

20:43

some spoons, but you don't need

20:46

to worry about appliances like you

20:48

could get away without a blender

20:50

or a kitchen aid I don't

20:52

even own a rice cooker. It'll

20:54

be okay Fair enough.

20:56

Yeah, yeah. My only personal exception

20:58

to that is I can't live

21:01

without my rice cooker. I can

21:03

cook rice on the stove, I

21:05

can cook rice in the oven,

21:07

but I just feel like I'm

21:09

doing something wrong to my ancestors

21:12

if I don't have a rice

21:14

cookie. So that's my own only

21:16

beef with that. Your ancestors did

21:18

not have a rice cooker, Francis.

21:20

I don't know what you're talking

21:22

about. You've been using rice cookies

21:25

in China. since 10,000 years ago.

21:27

Since 10,000 BC, before white people

21:29

had electricity, we figured out like

21:31

workers. You just can't convince me

21:33

otherwise. But I totally agree. I

21:36

mean, actually, I feel bad now,

21:38

because now I pigeonholed myself as

21:40

like, hello, I'm Chinese. I should

21:42

talk about a walk. And like,

21:44

I do have a walk. But

21:47

actually, I rarely use my walk.

21:49

Because I, I, I cook everything

21:51

on cast iron skillet and sauce

21:53

pans. I do, I do really

21:55

love my sauce pans. For sauce

21:57

pans... like I love that saucepan.

22:00

I bought this thing on sale

22:02

once in a department store. I

22:04

was in my 20 I was

22:06

like maybe 20 so I've had

22:08

this thing for many more than

22:11

20 years and it was a

22:13

little one-court like all-clad saucepan.

22:15

I'd never owned anything all-clad

22:17

and I was like oh my god

22:20

I can buy an all-clad thing and

22:22

it was only $30 on sale. Like

22:24

what do you do with a one-court

22:26

saucepan? I love that saucepan. I

22:29

use it. almost daily, anything I

22:31

want to cook for myself, I

22:33

can pretty much cook in a

22:35

one quart saucepan. Actually, that's amazing.

22:37

A small saucepan is so useful.

22:39

A small saucepan is so useful.

22:41

A small saucepan is so useful. A

22:44

small saucepan. Yeah. Making rice, not in

22:46

a rice cooker. Yeah. I did it. I

22:48

did do it the other day. Because

22:50

it was making Basmadi rice. And my

22:52

friend Kushmadi rice. Don't use a rice

22:54

cooker over a bus money rice. Now

22:57

you're funding my ancestors. Okay, fair. So

22:59

I did make the bus money rice

23:01

in the one quart sauce pan. So

23:03

what do you have that you're like,

23:05

is this the right thing? Is this

23:07

the wrong thing? Or what do you feel

23:09

like you're missing? I think right now

23:12

what I'm missing. I feel like I'm

23:14

missing a really good nice set.

23:16

I have a saucepan, I have

23:18

the cast iron skillet, that's a

23:21

little new for me, so I'm

23:23

still figuring out how to season

23:25

it and would love any tips

23:27

or tricks there. But yeah,

23:29

I think what I'm missing is

23:32

just a really good knife. If

23:34

y'all have any recommendations.

23:36

Well, I don't I don't think you

23:39

need a full set because I

23:41

feel like those sets that you

23:43

usually don't end up using most

23:45

of the knives I think yeah

23:47

go for a chef's knife a

23:49

serrated And a and a pairing

23:51

or a petty and you could

23:53

pretty much do everything I prefer a

23:55

petty knife, which is like six to

23:58

eight inches long versus a pairing

24:00

which is more like four inches

24:02

because you can kind of use

24:04

it for butchering fish meat it can

24:07

do a lot and then for the

24:09

chef's knife it really I believe a

24:11

chef's knife is whatever you feel

24:13

comfortable cutting with so it doesn't

24:15

have to be you know the

24:17

German Like wrapped up in a

24:19

bag, very fancy. No, yeah. Start

24:22

simple and I think you should

24:24

aim for whatever knife you feel

24:26

comfortable sharpening because all knives go

24:29

dull no matter what kind of knife

24:31

you get. It will get dull so

24:33

you want to focus on something

24:35

you can comfortably sharpen.

24:38

That's so helpful. Thank you.

24:40

Yeah. So I'm a little bit disappointed

24:42

sometimes because like I...

24:45

I'm not like a very materialistic person,

24:47

but I have a little bit

24:49

of like I have a very small like collectors

24:51

kind of like side to me like I'd

24:53

love to get more of these and wouldn't

24:55

it be nice to get something nice and

24:57

new and and you know I'm like oh

24:59

I cook so I should buy Kishans,

25:02

I'm like, you know, every time I

25:04

buy a new knife, I'm like, I

25:06

don't need that. I buy a new

25:09

pen, I don't need that. You know,

25:11

I don't use it. I use my

25:13

one quart sauce pan, I use a

25:15

five quart sauce pan, I use a

25:18

Dutch oven, I use a cast iron

25:20

skillet, I use the three knives

25:22

you mentioned, and like that's

25:24

kind of all I ever

25:26

use ever. I think we're getting

25:28

into a deeper conversation. I'm

25:31

personally... I'm pretty anti-stuff,

25:33

which is annoying for

25:35

some people. Look, I

25:37

appreciate you saying that. I

25:39

have also seen what your kitchen

25:42

looks like, so you cannot come

25:44

at me with that. You have

25:46

an entire restaurant speed rack

25:48

in your New York City

25:51

apartment. I didn't buy most of

25:53

it. What whole are you feeling

25:55

by pretending to be someone you're

25:58

not? How about that? Okay,

26:00

ma'am. We're gonna let you

26:02

go while Sola and I

26:04

fight it out and pull

26:06

our therapist into this. Cool.

26:08

But thank you so much

26:10

for the call. No, thank

26:12

you both so much. Sola,

26:14

I love you in the

26:17

big brunch. Have a good

26:19

one. Thank you. Have a

26:21

good one. Yeah, you too.

26:23

Thank you. We have another

26:25

caller. Let's go right to

26:27

her and hopefully this won't

26:29

get into our deep-seated emotional

26:31

issues. Hey Melanie. Hello. Hey

26:33

Melanie. Thanks for the call.

26:35

What do you want to

26:37

talk about? Well, I've been

26:39

wondering why my last attempt

26:42

at making Pavlova was unfortunately

26:44

such a disappointment. I knew

26:46

about not attempting to make...

26:48

egg white morang type dishes

26:50

on a cloudy overcast day.

26:52

And even though this was

26:54

a bright sunny beautiful spring

26:56

day, the Pavlova came out

26:58

sticky and real chewy instead

27:00

of the wonderful dry crunchy

27:02

way that it does come

27:04

out when it's done right.

27:07

It comes out right. And

27:09

so I didn't know if

27:11

it was... the

27:13

new gas oven that I just

27:15

bought or if that had anything

27:17

to do with it if you

27:20

had any advice on what what

27:22

might be the issue there. That's

27:24

an interesting question. Well Melanie I

27:26

have to say first of all

27:28

I love a Pavlova so typically

27:30

a Pavlova is a baked mering

27:33

a very light mering with some

27:35

often a fruit sort of sauce

27:37

or a compote or sometimes there's

27:39

like a lemon curd or something

27:41

and usually some cream and so

27:43

you have this like really nice

27:45

mering with that yummy tasty thing

27:48

it's on top of. I have

27:50

to say I love a chewy

27:52

Pavlova and in fact I much

27:54

prefer a chewy Pavlova over a

27:56

crispy dry one. However, you want

27:58

a crispy dry one and Sola

28:00

can get you there. So Sola,

28:03

what's the problem? Okay, so tell

28:05

me about your Pavlova recipe. What

28:07

kind of sugar was in it

28:09

and did it contain any starch?

28:11

Well, I believe it was powdered

28:13

sugar, confectioner sugar, that does have

28:15

some corn starch in it. Okay,

28:18

cool. That's my preferred sugar for

28:20

Pavlova, so I don't think it

28:22

was the recipe. There's two things

28:24

that could have happened. under whip

28:26

it. So if you don't whip

28:28

the sugar and eggs till stiff

28:30

peak, it won't like really bake

28:33

up crisp like that. So if

28:35

it was more of like a

28:37

soft peak when you when you

28:39

baked it, you might end up

28:41

with something more chewy. And then

28:43

the other thing is, even if

28:46

it was a clear day, it

28:48

could have been humid, really the...

28:50

the enemy of Pavlovos and anything

28:52

with that much high concentration of

28:54

sugar is humidity. So perhaps it

28:56

was humid that day, even though

28:58

it was clear out. Those are

29:01

the two main things, the under

29:03

whipping and the humidity. The other

29:05

thing could be, because you said

29:07

it was a new oven, Maybe

29:09

the air circulation wasn't the same

29:11

as your old one. So I

29:13

always after I bake it I

29:16

leave the Door cracked open with

29:18

a wooden spoon and that kind

29:20

of lets some of the moisture

29:22

out and actually I have a

29:24

I have an old oven that

29:26

doesn't really let the air circulate

29:28

very well. So I pop up

29:31

in my oven a couple times

29:33

while I'm baking just to make

29:35

sure all the moisture can Have

29:37

somewhere to go during the baking

29:39

process. I don't know if that

29:41

helps. Yeah, thank you. That's great

29:43

suggestions. So actually, if you wanted

29:46

to go for a crisp mering

29:48

versus a, you know, a sort

29:50

of chewy or sticky mering, or

29:52

vice versa, is it like a

29:54

bake time thing? Is it you

29:56

actively... whisk less if you want

29:59

the chewy version? Like is in

30:01

the recipe? Would you see it

30:03

in the recipe that you're like,

30:05

oh, this will obviously be the

30:07

one versus the other or? I, you

30:09

know, I don't know if you can

30:11

tell from the recipe. I, so I

30:14

think a perfect pevela for me is

30:16

where the outside is crispy and the

30:18

inside is like a marshmallow kind of

30:20

pillowy and soft. Right. What distinguishes a

30:23

Pavlova from just a regular mering is

30:25

there's always a little bit of starch

30:27

which helps you get that like. pillowy

30:29

inside. So I like making Pavlovas with

30:31

powdered sugar because you already get that

30:34

starch in there instead of some recipes

30:36

you make your meringue with granulated sugar

30:38

and then you fold in the

30:40

starch which is kind of hard

30:42

to do so you might end

30:44

up with like pockets of corn

30:46

starch in there. So that starch

30:48

will help you get that like

30:50

pillowy texture. But when if you

30:53

intentionally want like a chewy mering

30:55

I But yeah, you're right. With

30:57

like a crisp crust, like a

30:59

chewy in the inside. I feel like

31:02

it's about maybe just baking

31:04

it less. Perhaps. When I'm going

31:06

for like that crisp outside pillowy

31:09

inside, I make it until it's

31:11

set enough that you can peel

31:13

it off the paper. Like you'll

31:16

be able to like get your spatula

31:18

underneath the mering and like it should

31:21

easily peel off. So you know that

31:23

the... the outer shell of the meringue

31:25

set, but it won't be totally dry.

31:27

It'll feel a little bit soft and

31:30

then when you let it sit out

31:32

at room temperature, it'll kind of stiffen

31:34

up a bit more. So I think

31:37

it's a little bit about bake time

31:39

and a little bit about whipping. And

31:41

it's one of those things where it's

31:43

like kind of just getting all those

31:45

details ironed out, which is unfortunately

31:48

what baking is all about, you

31:50

know. Yeah. All right, well, thank you so

31:52

much for the call, Melanie. Yeah, thank

31:54

you. I'm wondering now after hearing all

31:56

this, maybe it's because of where I

31:59

live now. in southern Virginia where the

32:01

humidity is high no matter what it

32:03

seems like whether it's a great sunny

32:05

day or not so that that may

32:08

be the culprit of the whole thing

32:10

yes Virginia it's tough I'm not going

32:12

to stop trying to make it though

32:14

it's so yummy fresh fruit so thank

32:16

you again for for your help you

32:19

say it thank you yeah thank you

32:21

are you are we just like at

32:23

a luck if you live in a

32:25

human environment can you just not make

32:27

this dish I feel

32:30

like yes. In the

32:32

winter is it less

32:35

humid like in December?

32:37

No, surprisingly not. I

32:40

mean I'm just getting

32:42

that from the you

32:45

know the internet weather

32:47

but when I see

32:49

humidity 86% and the

32:51

sun is out. I'm

32:53

curious, you know,

32:55

what is it? they obviously know

32:58

how to measure it so wait I

33:00

have a workaround for you okay

33:02

you know the the fully dry crisp mering's

33:04

that you can buy in the

33:06

box yeah yeah those those try

33:08

making like a eaten mess with

33:11

those that's like where you take those

33:13

mering's and you crush them

33:15

up and you layer it with

33:17

fruit and whipped cream and then

33:20

some of it some of the

33:22

mering will start to melt and

33:24

and maybe kind of give you

33:27

that like pillowy vibe. But

33:29

because I think It'll be

33:31

a little bit tough in Virginia

33:33

to make Pavlova, unless you

33:36

have like a dehydrator, but

33:38

don't go buying a dehydrator.

33:40

Just try the store botanerangs.

33:43

Okay. We literally told the

33:45

last caller, you don't have

33:47

to buy anything but a

33:50

cast-iron pan. It's like, now we're

33:52

like, oh, go get a dehydrator.

33:54

Or she don't really do that.

33:56

Okay, well, thanks again. All

33:58

right, well, thank you. Well, I

34:00

didn't feel like you were doing

34:02

this, but I felt a little

34:05

bit ashamed by my preference in

34:07

Pavlova, but that's okay. I love

34:09

a Pavlova. I think a Pavlova

34:11

is a wonderful dessert. It's one

34:13

of the greatest in the world,

34:16

but I really especially like it

34:18

when it's just a little chewy

34:20

and sticky in the middle. It's

34:22

just so good. Make it in

34:24

the summer. It'll be chewy for

34:27

you. Yeah, I just gonna go

34:29

buy one. I'm not gonna make

34:31

gonna make it. That's why we

34:33

need pastry chefs. Long live the

34:35

pastry chef. We're spending the hour

34:37

with one of America's favorite cooking

34:40

video stars and author of the

34:42

cookbook, Start Deer. Sola and Whaley.

34:44

More coming up. I'm Francis Lamb

34:46

and this is The Splendid Table

34:48

from APM. The Splendid table is

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supported by Emirates. We know

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35:27

everyday experiences like a trip

35:30

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35:34

sensory sensitive individuals avoid dental

35:36

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35:38

a new documentary produced as

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sounds, and unexpected touches can

35:51

turn routine moments into overwhelming

35:53

challenges. Burnett Grant, for example,

35:55

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felt safe, they share. This

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is why they're advocating for

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change. Through deeply personal stories

36:10

like Burnett's, sensory overload highlights

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embrace sensory inclusion. Because true

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inclusion requires action with environments

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where everyone feels safe. Watch

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sensory overload now, streaming on

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Hulu. I'm

36:36

Francis Lamb and this is the show

36:39

for curious cooks and eaters. We've got

36:41

our good friend and cooking video star

36:43

Sola El Wailion today. Let's go back

36:45

to it with her. We have another

36:48

caller. This is Angela. Hey Angela, how

36:50

are you? Hi Francis, I'm doing really

36:52

well. How are you? I'm great thanks.

36:54

You're here with Sola and what would

36:57

you like to talk about? Well, I

36:59

would like to say thank you. You

37:01

are both on my imaginary best friend

37:03

list. So it's so amazing to be

37:06

able to talk to you. And I

37:08

have a question about ice cream. And

37:10

my question is, I've been substitute teaching

37:13

at a low income elementary school and

37:15

I heard this really interesting conversation. So

37:17

I pulled a Francis Lamb and just

37:19

asked a question and listened instead of

37:22

asking the children to go back to

37:24

their tables. They were saying, one of

37:26

them said he had a freezer under

37:28

his bed, this is a seven-year-old, and

37:31

the freezer was full of ice cream

37:33

of all the flavors in the world,

37:35

and he was allowed to eat any

37:37

of them that he wanted to. I

37:40

kind of waited to see what the

37:42

little girl would do, if she called

37:44

him a liar, or what, you know,

37:47

what was going to happen? And she

37:49

leaned in with her eyes wide and

37:51

said, me too. You know, and I

37:53

thought that's amazing that she just joined

37:56

his fantasy and you know, and so

37:58

I thought I do have an ice

38:00

cream maker. I wonder, it's a really

38:02

food insecure school. What would be

38:04

a flavor that they haven't tasted

38:07

that I could make that, you know,

38:09

I could take it into the class

38:11

and they could taste something really

38:13

interesting. This is, okay, we

38:15

might be on real best friends list

38:18

soon because this is an amazing question

38:20

and I love that you want

38:22

to do this. This is so

38:24

amazing. Thanks. But okay, what

38:26

would be a really interesting... Well,

38:29

you wmm. Okay. So

38:31

an interesting flavor, but

38:33

you want to be

38:35

like something that wouldn't

38:37

be like so off

38:40

the wall. They're just

38:42

like, why? Exactly.

38:44

Yes. Cool and delicious

38:46

and solar. What you

38:49

got? Hmm. I mean,

38:51

so there's this YouTube

38:53

series where they would

38:55

ask kids to draw a food.

38:58

And then a chef would try

39:00

and make it. And sometimes

39:02

they would draw things like,

39:04

I want to like a

39:06

dragon cake with gummy bare

39:08

eyes. And maybe they can help

39:11

you brainstorm. Mm.

39:13

Including some audience

39:15

participation. But my

39:17

favorite flavor of ice

39:20

cream is actually vanilla.

39:22

Thanks for the help, Sola.

39:24

a vanilla hack? I mean, maybe

39:26

they would love that too because

39:29

they're seven. So that would be

39:31

sort of a gentle flavor. Well,

39:33

I think when you make vanilla

39:35

with like a really good vanilla

39:37

bean, I like to get vanilla

39:39

beans online because they tend to

39:41

be fresher from somewhere like

39:44

regalis or halaya vanilla. When you

39:46

buy it online, it's like really

39:48

fresh and really sticky and super

39:50

aromatic. completely different from the one

39:52

you get it in the store

39:54

in like the little jars. I

39:57

think it's the greatest smell in

39:59

the world. And you don't actually

40:01

need very much. You can make a

40:03

quart of vanilla with like half a

40:06

bean. And I think it could be

40:08

cool to like, I don't know, let

40:10

them smell the pods, you know, do

40:12

a little teaser. Okay, love that. They

40:14

would love that. Let them smell the

40:16

pods before you make the ice cream.

40:18

And I always recommend, like, I'll make

40:21

my base with the seeds and the

40:23

pod and then I like let it

40:25

steep overnight. So it gets like really

40:27

intense. And I feel like when you

40:29

let vanilla like really steep and I

40:31

prefer to do what I'm making a

40:33

vanilla and I really want to taste

40:36

the vanilla. I do an eggless base.

40:38

So it's just milk. cream, a little

40:40

bit of corn syrup, sugar, and milk

40:42

powder. And I like doing that

40:44

eggless base, so nothing gets in

40:47

the way of the vanilla flavor.

40:49

It's just like the vanilla and

40:51

the milk and the cream. And

40:53

then let it steep overnight, maybe

40:55

even like two nights. And then

40:57

that aroma really like permeates. And

41:00

I feel like it tastes like

41:02

orchids and marshmallows. To me, it's

41:04

like really the best flavor. Most

41:06

vanilla ice creams out there are

41:08

Madagascar vanilla, but you could try

41:10

like Tahitian vanilla or Mexican vanilla.

41:13

And I know it's just vanilla

41:15

and vanilla gets like a bad rap,

41:17

but I really do love it. And it'll

41:19

be unlike any vanilla ice cream they could

41:21

buy. I love that. And I love that.

41:23

You added steep overnight too because that's the

41:25

kind of, you know, things that are left

41:28

out of cookbooks. And like Francis said

41:30

something just offhand about peeling the stems

41:32

of broccoli and that's the kind of

41:34

thing. that a lot of people don't

41:36

write down. So thank you for the,

41:39

you know, steep overnight tip. Oh,

41:41

yeah, that's a good one. And actually,

41:43

I love Solas. You'll need an

41:45

actual recipe, but her idea of

41:47

using an eggless base, where that

41:50

does include corn syrup and milk

41:52

powder, those are two kind of

41:54

magic ingredients that I would not

41:56

skip, because the corn syrup, you

41:59

know, also another. thing because it's a

42:01

bad rap. You're not using it like

42:03

you know an industrial food processor

42:05

does like don't worry about two tablespoons

42:08

of corn syrup in your in your

42:10

homemade ice cream. That really really

42:12

helps the texture of the ice cream

42:14

and the milk powder a little more

42:16

milk flavor but the protein in

42:18

the milk powder also helps to

42:21

keep your ice cream texture like

42:23

really super smooth and creamy. And I

42:25

think it also like keeps it so

42:27

you can like keep it longer in

42:29

the freezer, right? Like it sort of

42:31

stabilizes the texture so it doesn't like

42:33

doesn't like want to get sort of

42:35

icy and grainy and the freezer is

42:37

easily. But how much ice can we going

42:39

to make Angela? The teachers have about

42:41

24 students in the class. So I

42:43

could easily, you know, make a couple

42:45

gallons and then bring in little ice cream

42:47

cones and do it in class. And I

42:49

love the idea of sharing the smell of

42:51

the pods with them. So, and I

42:53

love the idea of corn syrup too, because

42:56

we are in corn country, and I feel

42:58

like the corn syrup could sort of

43:00

hold hands with the unfamiliar and

43:03

introduce the kids in that way, something

43:05

they know and something they don't know.

43:07

Oh, that's cool. Yeah, you know, okay, so

43:09

you're making a lot of ice cream. If

43:11

you're like a home ice cream maker, what

43:14

probably makes, like, like, a quart

43:16

at a quart at a time.

43:18

Right. You're, you're making several gallons.

43:20

a bunch of weekends stashing in

43:22

your freezer. I would say corn

43:24

ice cream. I've never met

43:27

anyone who doesn't love sweet corn

43:29

ice cream. I've never heard of

43:31

this. But so many people, the

43:33

first time they have it, like

43:35

it blows their mind that you

43:37

can make. Yeah, I mean, literally

43:39

make ice cream that tastes like

43:41

corn. Sola, go. Because I kept

43:43

thinking of a recipe off without my

43:46

head. Oh, I love corn ice

43:48

cream. Corn ice cream is very

43:50

good. So I like to both

43:52

make a puree with the fresh

43:54

corn. This would probably be better

43:56

in the summer when the corn

43:59

is really sweet. frozen corn?

44:01

Like if, because frozen corn is

44:03

often still pretty sweet. I

44:05

don't think so. Okay. Because when

44:07

you blitz, the, blitz up the

44:09

corn, the frozen corn has like

44:11

a little gridiness, but, but you

44:13

want to shave off the kernels

44:16

and you're going to put the

44:18

kernels and the cops in there,

44:20

cook it all together, also go

44:22

eggless here. And then once you've got,

44:24

like, give it that overnight steep, steep

44:26

again. once you've gotten all your flavor

44:29

from your cobs you want to take

44:31

them out and like really use your

44:33

hands to squeeze every bit of ice

44:36

cream base off of it and then

44:38

you're gonna puree it to blitz up

44:40

the corn like kernels and pass that

44:42

through a fine mesh strainer and it's

44:45

it's very tasty and I feel like

44:47

with corn ice cream you need a

44:49

little extra salt really brings out

44:51

that corn flavor so it's gonna

44:53

be kind of like a little salty

44:56

savory corn ice cream situation. You've

44:58

never heard of anything like this.

45:00

Oh, that will be really good

45:02

in corn country. It'll be, no

45:04

one on this planet does not

45:06

fall in love with sweet corn ice

45:08

cream the first time they taste it.

45:10

It's just magic, magic, magic. Wow,

45:12

okay. Why would you add the cob though?

45:14

What does the cob do for it? Oh,

45:17

there's just a lot of flavor in the

45:19

cob. Like, you don't want to let

45:21

it go to waste. Yeah, yeah. Something I

45:23

do sort of maniacally during summer is

45:25

when I buy fresh corn and I

45:27

use the corn, I store all the

45:29

cobs. Like I'll just like wrap it

45:32

in plastic wrap. If I had three,

45:34

you know, cops of corn that night, I'll

45:36

just take the cob, wrap them in

45:38

plastic wrap, and then one day my

45:40

wife opened a freezer and be like,

45:42

why did you take a quarter of

45:44

the freezer in corn cobs? Please get

45:46

rid of these, please get rid of

45:49

these. Please get rid of these.

45:51

The corn stock is terrific. I

45:53

use it in place of vegetable stock

45:55

and place it chicken stock.

45:57

It's just like such a

45:59

nice. mellow corn flavor. It's great.

46:01

It's amazing. I've never heard of anyone

46:04

doing that around here. Yeah, that's how

46:06

you know we're fancy because we use all

46:08

the garbage that people throw out. I love

46:10

that. Well, thanks so much for the call,

46:12

Angela. I really hope you make really

46:14

wonderful ice cream and the kids love

46:16

the vanilla, the experience of all the

46:18

vanilla or if you want to wait

46:20

till the summer and make them corn

46:22

ice cream. I just love that you're

46:25

doing that. That's really wonderful.

46:27

Okay, I'll send you have picture. Please

46:29

do, yeah, report back. Thank you so

46:31

much. Bye. All right, bye. Oh my God, I

46:33

love that. Okay, so I want to get

46:35

back to you, Sola. Now that we've

46:37

done several pastry calls in a row,

46:39

and you were a pastry chef, and

46:42

half your book is pastry, but I

46:44

don't want to focus only on

46:46

that because like you said, oh,

46:49

like women so often get typecast

46:51

as pastry chefs in the restaurant

46:53

world, but there's something that was

46:56

really interesting about the being a particular

46:58

kind of learner. And you're not really

47:00

one to memorize facts or memorize the steps,

47:02

you know, like that's not really your strength,

47:04

but for you, when you learn about the

47:06

why, you're like, tell me why this is,

47:08

and then I'll get it. So, and I

47:11

kind of feel like pastry and baking is

47:13

like, sort of famously or stereotypically this like

47:15

world where like, it's all about precise measurements

47:17

and precise techniques, and you got to know exactly

47:20

one thing, next thing, third thing, and that that's

47:22

the only way to do it, and that's the

47:24

only way to do it, and that's the only

47:26

way to do it. But talk to me

47:28

about your approach to writing your

47:30

book, both the pastry side and

47:33

the savory side, and how much

47:35

you want to focus on the

47:37

why rather than the what do I

47:39

do next. Well, I guess the first thing

47:41

I did was figure out what

47:43

I thought the core techniques I

47:46

wanted to focus on would be.

47:48

So each chapter is a technique.

47:50

And that just like narrowing that

47:52

down took forever. because I really

47:54

wanted to be what was essential to

47:57

the home cook. So there's a lot

47:59

that's left out because... there's no, I

48:01

initially had a frying chapter,

48:03

but like you don't, you

48:05

don't need to fry. There was

48:07

a lemonation chapter, but... You

48:10

can eat really well without

48:12

deep frying ever, you know?

48:14

So once I figured that

48:16

out... Please continue. Then it

48:18

was just like, then I

48:20

guess my primary focus was

48:22

really... how to how to

48:25

teach people those techniques through

48:27

the text and through the

48:29

recipes so every recipe is

48:31

meant to really like teach you

48:33

more about the technique so there

48:35

are dishes in there that are

48:37

like good weeknight dinners

48:39

of course but it's really a

48:41

teaching book so every recipe is

48:44

meant to teach and then the

48:46

the text as well I really

48:48

wanted to break down every single one

48:50

of these techniques like as much

48:52

as I possibly could like the

48:54

science the house the equipment because

48:57

I really want you to get it

48:59

like I really want you to leave

49:01

the book like after the searing chapter.

49:03

I want you to know everything about

49:05

how to seer. So that anytime you

49:07

find a recipe where they're searing, you

49:09

like get it. You're not like blindly

49:11

just following a step to like patch

49:13

your meat dry. You understand why. You

49:16

know that like, oh, I need dry

49:18

meat to make browning happen because the

49:20

enemy of brown is wet. You know?

49:22

So I really want to explain all

49:24

the wise because I think it just

49:26

makes it easier to know what you're

49:28

doing, whether you're following a recipe

49:31

or not. Yeah, but I also love, because

49:33

so a lot, you know, it's not the

49:35

first book to want to teach basic cooking

49:37

techniques in a sort of systematic way, but

49:39

a lot of times I do find when

49:41

folks write those books, like they feel like, well,

49:43

if I'm teaching beginner, beginners maybe

49:45

a weird word, but like basic techniques, then

49:47

people want like basic recipes to go

49:49

with them, and I love that your

49:51

approach is like, we're not doing that.

49:53

Like, they're basic techniques, but

49:56

the recipes themselves themselves are not

49:58

basic at all in terms of flavor. creativity.

50:00

So there's one that really

50:02

caught my eye that I'd love for you to

50:04

talk about and it's the Bistia-inspired

50:07

Fillo chicken pie. Oh yeah. Tell us

50:09

about that dish and what the lesson,

50:11

what the technique lesson is there. Well

50:14

first of all I really love

50:16

Bistia but the traditional one it's

50:18

like a long braced pigeon and

50:20

it's it's it's it's a difficult

50:22

recipe if you want to make

50:24

it like fully traditional. Rapping pastry

50:26

and it's like... Yeah, very spiced

50:29

and it's Moroccan, right? It's a,

50:31

it's a, it's like a beautiful Moroccan

50:33

pie. Yeah, and what I love the most

50:35

about is it's got like this sweet,

50:37

savory thing happening. But I wanted to

50:40

capture the flavor of like a really

50:42

long braise by just focusing on like

50:44

the point of this recipe is to

50:47

teach you how to brown meat, ground

50:49

meat in particular. ground meat

50:51

can be hard to brown sometimes because

50:53

it is very wet and I feel

50:56

like getting it like really crispy brown

50:58

sometimes you end up drying out the

51:00

meat. That's totally true like yeah I

51:02

had never thought about thinking like searing a

51:04

steak or a pork chop as long as

51:07

the pan is hot and the and you've

51:09

dried the surface and the meat

51:11

like it's usually gonna work but

51:13

yeah often when you're browning ground

51:15

meat like it releases a lot more juice

51:17

yeah so the way I like to brown my

51:19

ground meat which I highlight in

51:21

this recipe and like in all my

51:24

like old recipes I do this as

51:26

well I put the ground meat in

51:28

the pan in like one even layer

51:31

and then just like leave it Because

51:33

a lot of recipes tell you to like break

51:35

it up and toss it into crumbles I just

51:37

like let it stay put that's like the main

51:40

lesson just like let it stay put let it

51:42

brown and then it browns really deeply on one

51:44

side and then the other side stays a little

51:46

bit moist and then you go in and break

51:49

it up afterwards and add your spices and your

51:51

garlic and all of that so the lesson there

51:53

was just like how to brown meat but like

51:55

from that you get this like really cool

51:57

recipe that is also a shortcut to best

51:59

Yeah. And hopefully it like teaches more

52:02

people about those flavors because I think it's

52:04

like a really cool flavor combo because in

52:06

a lot of Western cuisine you don't use

52:08

warm spices like cinnamon in savory food as

52:11

much as you do in like Middle East

52:13

and South Asia so it's like a flavor

52:15

combo that I think you already got cinnamon

52:17

so just like now you got more ways

52:20

to use it. Yeah. Actually want to

52:22

walk us through the recipe really quick

52:24

so you've browned ground chicken and what

52:26

are the spices you're adding to it?

52:28

So it's spiced with garlic,

52:31

ginger, turmeric, cinnamon, and

52:33

black pepper. And then my

52:35

favorite part is so you

52:37

have your little spiced meat mixture,

52:39

you put it in Fillo, fold

52:42

it up, after you bake it,

52:44

you sprinkle it with powdered sugar.

52:46

And it sounds wild, but the

52:48

sweet savory thing is really...

52:50

It's really delicious. It's crispy,

52:53

the buttery fillo, it's crispy.

52:55

There's raisins in it too,

52:57

right? There's raisins, yeah, little

53:00

pops of sweet, yeah. Oh,

53:02

that sounds so good. Right

53:04

on. Well, thanks so much

53:06

for coming by and congratulations

53:08

on this monumental book. Yeah,

53:10

thanks for having me. Sola

53:12

Elwaley is the author of

53:15

the New York Times

53:17

bestseller, Start Human. instructions

53:20

for becoming a better

53:22

cook. And she left

53:25

us with her

53:27

recipe for that

53:29

Bastilla-inspired Fillo chicken

53:31

pie. Find it

53:33

at splendable.org. And

53:35

that is our

53:37

show for the

53:39

week. Come make something

53:42

new this week, will you?

53:44

Talk to you in a

53:46

few. It's made each beak

53:48

by technical producer Jennifer Luci,

53:51

producer Erica Romero, digital producer

53:53

James Napoli, and managing producer

53:55

Sally Swift. I'm Francis Lamb

53:57

and this is APM Studios.

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