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NCUA. Live

1:22

from Joe's mom's basement,

1:24

it's The Stacking Benjamin

1:26

Show. I'm

1:36

Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and remember that Zoom

1:38

meeting where one person sounded like they

1:40

were underwater and another had a horrible camera

1:42

angle and the third tried to pretend

1:44

they were at work, but you knew they

1:46

were really at the zoo? Well, here

1:48

to help you hone the tactics to avoid

1:50

your career from becoming a circus, we

1:53

welcome Lorraine Lee. Plus,

1:56

in our headline, what if you

1:58

had a big financial move you were considering

2:00

and now, with tariffs and the threat

2:02

of a recession, you aren't sure what

2:04

to do? How do you pull the

2:06

trigger? We'll help you sort

2:08

through several big moves to strategically

2:10

make the best decision. And

2:13

don't you worry yourself even a

2:15

little bit because you already know, don't

2:17

you? You know it. I'm gonna

2:19

swoop in halfway through all this goodness

2:21

with the most goodness -y part of

2:23

it all. My trivia. And

2:25

now, two guys who are relieved to find

2:27

out that career branding had nothing to do with

2:29

a hot iron. It's Joe

2:31

and oh, ju -ju -ju

2:33

-G. Thank

2:38

goodness for the clarification. I

2:41

appreciate that. Hey everybody, welcome to the

2:43

This Is Going to Hurt a Lot

2:45

Less Than We Thought podcast. I

2:47

am Joe Sallseehi and welcome. to

2:49

the stacking Benjamin show sit back

2:51

and relax because man we've got

2:53

you know what actually today you

2:56

might want to grab a sheet

2:58

of paper or your favorite uh

3:00

no taking device because Lorraine Lee

3:02

is brilliant okay boomer grab some

3:04

chalk and uh slate grab your

3:06

abacus because it's time to start

3:08

doing the math on all of

3:10

this career branding uh Lorraine Lee

3:12

is just a dynamo and

3:14

i cannot wait to get her

3:16

advice on making your career

3:18

better. I know that hopefully after today's episode,

3:20

well, some of you are going to

3:23

score some raises. Some of you are going

3:25

to make a little more money, maybe

3:27

a lot more money, OG. Imagine

3:29

if we help people make a lot more money. You

3:31

think that they'll, uh, it's like tipping the server. They'll

3:34

come and they'll tip us. Yeah.

3:36

Probably be tips like, uh, buy low. It's so high.

3:39

Don't drink your bathwater. Don't

3:41

eat yellow snow. I've never

3:43

heard the one about bathwater. Is that a

3:45

thing? Really? Don't drink

3:47

the bathwater. Who knew

3:49

that you shouldn't do that? Apparently

3:52

not. Settle down, Portage, Michigan. The

3:57

whole communities

4:00

in South Central Michigan are up in arms.

4:02

Holy cow. The things you learn

4:04

about Joe's upbringing on this show. Don't

4:06

drink the bathwater again, Joe. That's

4:10

seriously not a phrase. I think that was just something

4:12

your parents had to say to you. I've

4:14

never heard that ever. It was Southwest

4:16

Michigan, by the way. We don't

4:18

associate with those mid -Michigan people. You're

4:20

in Michiana. Very close

4:22

to Michiana, not quite. Lorraine

4:25

Lee is a top -rated

4:28

global keynote speaker, consultant and

4:30

instructor at a little university

4:32

called Stanford. She

4:34

also works at LinkedIn Learning. She's

4:36

recognized as LinkedIn Top Voice and is

4:38

more than 300 ,000 LinkedIn followers. and

4:41

over a decade of experience leading editorial teams

4:43

at the world's top tech firms. She

4:45

has been a trainer and

4:47

a guest speaker for Zoom,

4:49

Cisco, Amazon, a

4:52

little company called McKinsey and

4:54

others. Named a top virtual

4:56

speaker by ReadWrite and was a

4:58

finalist for Global Conference Speaker of

5:00

the Year by Women Tech. Also named

5:02

a top 15 link expert in

5:04

San Francisco by Influence Digest. But today

5:07

she is teaching us how

5:09

to make sure that we're not passed

5:11

over for that next raise that we

5:13

deserve. It's not just about working hard

5:15

or stackers always work hard. It's about

5:17

making sure that you get noticed. So

5:19

here with the tactics to get you

5:21

noticed in just a moment Lorraine Lee,

5:23

first we got a couple of sponsors

5:25

that make sure that this is free

5:27

and you don't to pay a dime

5:29

for Lorraine's presence here. Get

5:32

it? Her presence. Unforgettable

5:35

presence, maybe? No. We're keeping that

5:37

joke going for Monday. Yeah,

5:39

I have no idea. But Lorraine Lee

5:42

coming up next. Let's hear from them

5:44

and then the Lorraine Lee. This

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episode is brought to you by Navy Federal

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.org. Navy Federal Credit Union,

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our members are the mission. Ensured

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by NCUA. Today's

6:47

show is sponsored by strawberry .me -stackers. All

6:50

right, everybody, let's talk careers. You know, you work hard,

6:52

you bring in a paycheck, maybe even

6:54

contribute to your 401k like a

6:56

responsible adult gold star for you. But

6:58

here's the thing, making money

7:01

is great, but making the right

7:03

moves to actually grow your career

7:05

and earn more. Are you

7:07

doing that? Because let's

7:09

be honest, hoping your boss finally notices

7:11

you and hands you a raise.

7:13

That is not a plan. That is

7:15

a gamble. And unless you're

7:17

the type of person who gets excited

7:19

about betting their retirement on meme stocks,

7:22

you probably want a better strategy. I

7:24

certainly do. I have a

7:26

coach Mary Lou that I meet with

7:28

every Monday morning and Mary Lou

7:30

and I lay out my week. We

7:32

talk about doing the things that

7:34

are important to my family that are

7:36

important for my health and the

7:38

things that are important for financial literacy

7:41

and stacking Benjamins and the intersection of

7:43

all those things and that's where

7:45

strawberry dot me career coaching. can

7:48

help you. They'll match you with a

7:50

certified career coach. Somebody who

7:52

knows how to help you

7:54

get ahead like my coach

7:56

helps me negotiate better pay

7:58

and actually make smart money move

8:00

so you're not leaving money on the table. You've

8:03

heard me talk about this before. The

8:05

key is to have people around

8:07

you, smart people around you who hold

8:09

you accountable to getting those things

8:11

you say that you want for yourself.

8:14

If you're anything like me,

8:17

You've been meaning to, quote, update your resume

8:19

for, like, the last five years. I remember what

8:21

Mary Lou said. Are we going to keep talking

8:23

about this book or are you finally going to

8:25

write it? And I'm very proud of

8:27

stacked. But without Mary Lou, I would have

8:29

never had stacked. Your

8:31

career is your biggest financial asset. It's

8:34

time to start treating it that way.

8:36

When I started treating it that

8:38

way, things changed. It can be the

8:40

same for you. So here's the

8:42

deal. Go to strawberry .me. It's strawberry .me

8:44

slash stacking. and you'll

8:46

claim your $50

8:48

credit at strawberry .me

8:51

slash stacking because maximizing

8:53

your earnings is just as important

8:55

as maximizing your investments. Strawberry .me

8:57

does not facilitate or provide

8:59

healthcare services. Please consult with a

9:01

healthcare professional. But guys, let's

9:03

get some more people around us, shall we? And

9:13

I'm super happy we finally have this woman coming

9:15

down to the basement. Lorraine Lee is here. How

9:17

are you? I'm doing so well. Thank

9:19

you for having me. I am so, so,

9:21

so happy because I love this

9:23

idea of taking control of your career,

9:26

taking control of your brand. But

9:28

I think the best place for us

9:30

to start today, after everybody heard

9:32

about you on Monday and a lot

9:34

of these concepts on Monday, tell

9:36

us your story because really, I think

9:39

that this whole project has a lot to

9:41

do with your own personal journey when

9:43

you started at LinkedIn. It does,

9:45

yes. I share my own personal journey

9:47

about my early career was at

9:49

LinkedIn. I was there for six years.

9:51

I worked on some really high

9:53

profile projects and initiatives and things many

9:55

people I think would recognize and

9:57

use today. LinkedIn newsletters on that news

9:59

module in the top right hand corner of

10:01

your feed. I moved to Hong Kong for a

10:03

year writing those stories. Folks in the US

10:06

would wake up to fresh news. A lot of

10:08

things, LinkedIn influencers. And I love

10:10

my job there. I love my coat

10:12

workers. Everyone liked me. And

10:14

as hard as I tried though, I'm

10:16

an ambitious person. I was in the

10:18

middle of my career. I really

10:20

wanted to get promoted. I wanted to

10:22

be viewed as that senior leader. I

10:25

was there for six years as hard as

10:27

I pushed. I cannot get that promotion. And

10:29

I couldn't figure out why. was like,

10:31

I work hard. I'm delivering results. People

10:33

like me, what's wrong? And after

10:35

six amazing years at LinkedIn, I ended

10:37

up moving to a company called Prezi.

10:39

And it was only at that point

10:41

where I started reflecting a little bit

10:43

more, realizing, oh, maybe I

10:45

wasn't doing things in the best way

10:48

when I was at LinkedIn. I

10:50

wasn't really advocating for myself and promoting

10:52

my work in the best way. And

10:54

I wasn't making it clear what I

10:56

wanted. Even though I worked on important

10:58

projects, I was, someone who executed said

11:00

yes all the time was less strategic.

11:03

It was through a lot of conversations, a lot of

11:05

reflection that I realized, okay, These are

11:07

the things I want to improve in

11:09

my next role because I do

11:11

want to reach that next level and

11:13

went into my new role at

11:15

Prezi, really thinking of myself as a CEO

11:17

of my own career and realizing I need

11:19

to take my career into my own hands

11:21

and be really proactive and intentional about it,

11:23

much more so than I was early on

11:26

in my career. But it's funny, most of

11:28

us, especially when we first start out Lorraine,

11:30

I think that we think, well, A, I don't

11:32

want to brag. I want to

11:34

be a team player because it's the

11:36

team player that everybody likes and everybody

11:38

wants. And I think you do a

11:40

great job, though, of saying, listen, you

11:42

can promote yourself and still be all

11:44

those things. Yeah, a lot of it's

11:46

a mindset shift. Of course, we don't want to be

11:48

that person who's bragging all the time and it's like

11:50

me, me, me. But there are ways that

11:53

you can talk about your work that still

11:55

benefit the rest of the team, right? Frame it

11:57

in terms of learnings. Here's what I learned

11:59

and here's what might apply to you as

12:01

well. Or there's like language

12:03

adjustments you can make that make

12:05

it seem more collaborative, but

12:07

also are still highlighting. your

12:09

achievements and accomplishments. It's well,

12:11

because I know there's a portion of our

12:13

audience that when they first were introduced to

12:15

the subject, they kind of roll their eyes

12:17

and they're like a personal brand. I don't

12:19

need a personal brand. You kick off this

12:21

whole project with this great statement. You

12:24

have a personal brand already. Like it's either

12:26

a really crappy one or it's a good

12:28

one and you get to choose, but you

12:30

have a personal brand whether you know it

12:32

or not. Exactly. And

12:34

I call personal brand career brand because

12:36

to your point, I feel like when we

12:38

hear personal brand, sometimes we're like, ooh,

12:40

that sounds kind of slimy or I'm like

12:43

selling something or it's just for brands

12:45

or just for companies. But a

12:47

brand is essentially a reputation and what people

12:49

can expect when they work with you,

12:51

when they meet you. And so career brand,

12:53

I think maybe a little less disingenuous

12:55

sounding and explains like your brand is in

12:57

service of your career. And so we

12:59

need to be intentional about it because we

13:01

have one like said and it's either us

13:03

to define it or others are going to define it for

13:05

us. It reminds me of that old CEO

13:08

with General Electric in the 90s, Jack Welch,

13:10

who always said, control your destiny or somebody

13:12

else is going to. And I love your

13:14

phrasing of being the CEO. All

13:16

right, you have these maxims. I kind of want

13:18

to walk through these. In the old days, you

13:20

might have said, hard work alone will pay off.

13:23

in the new days the new way the

13:25

Lorraine way of thinking about this if nobody

13:27

sees my work it'll be like i didn't

13:29

do anything i need to share my accomplishment

13:31

so can we address that one how do

13:33

you share we brought this up a little

13:35

bit earlier Lorraine but how do we share

13:37

without bragging we see these

13:39

people online and they're so braggy and

13:41

as you know it just lands

13:43

so flat sometimes. Mm -hmm. I like

13:45

to share this analogy, the analogy that's like

13:47

if a tree falls in a forest and

13:49

no one's there to hear it, did it

13:51

happen? And I feel like that's like hard

13:53

work, right? Like if no one sees it, like what's it all

13:56

for? Does it matter? And so it's

13:58

really important to keep that visibility

14:00

peace in mind. And so the first thing

14:02

I would think about is, you know, if

14:04

you're worried about sounding like you're bragging,

14:06

if you have strong relationships with the people

14:08

with whom you're sharing the work, that

14:10

is very important, right? Relationships are the foundation

14:12

of business and people know you and

14:14

they know your intentions and they know your

14:16

personality, it's very unlikely they're going

14:18

to think, okay, Joe or Lorraine are bragging

14:20

all the time about themselves. Oh, they're just trying

14:22

to be helpful. So that's one is that

14:24

you want to lean on your relationships and building

14:26

those relationships at work as the foundation. Another

14:29

thing you can do is use more

14:31

collaborative language. So there is this

14:33

data in Harvard Business Review that shared

14:36

that people who use we, us,

14:38

hour to describe their accomplishments

14:40

versus people who use i statements

14:42

a lot so that we

14:44

us our people were actually viewed

14:46

as more senior and the i

14:48

people were viewed as more junior which is

14:50

very interesting so for people who are

14:52

a little bit nervous about sharing their work

14:54

there's good news right you frame it

14:56

in terms of team and we're sort of

14:58

all raising the the bar together and

15:00

uplifting each other together and i think that's

15:03

a really maybe more genuine way to

15:05

share accomplishments, especially for any introverts out there.

15:07

I'm an introvert. So yeah, attention on

15:09

yourself. So it's like, Oh, the whole team,

15:11

like we worked on this together for

15:13

people now, like you're leading a charge or,

15:15

or you had a big part in

15:17

it. There's I think a wonderful side light to

15:19

this too, which is I think the more you

15:21

talk in terms of we Lorraine, I think

15:23

the more you are a we player. You know

15:25

what I mean? Like if you're always using

15:27

we language, you're thinking about how can I lift

15:29

other people up, which really on a LinkedIn

15:31

post or wherever it might be is a huge

15:33

thing where you're helping other people. Exactly.

15:36

I think the best leaders are those who

15:38

lift others up and those who help. You

15:40

mentioned relationships. old

15:42

way of thinking. Lorraine writes, my

15:44

network will grow naturally. New

15:46

way of thinking, I need to make sure I'm

15:48

actively building relationships, not just when I need

15:50

something, which seems to be all the time when

15:53

people reach out to me, Hey, Joe, I

15:55

need your help. Yeah. Hey, I've talked to you

15:57

six years ago. Sure. But this

15:59

seems to speak to some sort of career

16:01

CRM for people don't know what a

16:03

CRM is, like a client relationship

16:05

management thing. Is this like a CRM?

16:07

Because we tend to forget people

16:09

sometimes Lorraine. How do we make sure

16:11

that we are out in the

16:14

world building these relationships. You

16:16

can use something as elaborate as a

16:18

CRM and I interviewed a content creator

16:20

corporate Natalie and she mentioned she has

16:22

a network tracker. I don't have

16:24

something like that but... really important to have

16:26

those one -on -one conversations with people at work. It's

16:28

not just, I'm talking to you because we're

16:30

working and I need something, but hey, let's grab

16:32

a coffee or let's go out to lunch.

16:34

Let me get to know you a little bit

16:36

more. Just be, you know, it doesn't have

16:38

to be like, you know their whole life story,

16:40

but a little bit more beyond the surface

16:42

level talk and the work talk. And so I

16:44

think that's very powerful. And then it's about.

16:46

Checking in with your, with your narrow caliber,

16:48

it makes sense for you. So for example, I

16:50

actually have this yearly holiday newsletter. And so

16:52

anyone who I meet, who I feel like I

16:55

have a connection to, I will add them

16:57

to the newsletter. They will hear an update from

16:59

me about once a year. And then I

17:01

also asked them, like, tell me about what's going

17:03

on. I want to hear about it. And

17:05

so that's a very light touch way to stay

17:07

top of mine and to keep that connection

17:09

going. That's fantastic. The

17:11

other piece I like about that you

17:13

mentioned being an introvert. I'm an introvert. I

17:15

play an extrovert on the podcast, but

17:18

I wouldn't have been able to tell. Yeah. I

17:20

always need two days. I need those two

17:22

days alone, you know, after. Yeah. But

17:24

seriously, grabbing the coffee, I think, makes

17:26

it more comfortable for the introvert instead

17:28

of transactional business. If I

17:30

know you, it's going to make

17:33

me exude less energy to have

17:35

this relationship. Mm -hmm. And introverts

17:37

are very good at building those relationships

17:39

in a one -on -one setting because

17:41

they are really good listeners, because they're

17:43

empathetic. And so that's the introvert

17:45

strength. Third on your list, feedback

17:47

comes during annual reviews. That's the old

17:49

way of thinking, of course. You

17:51

change that. Feedback should be ongoing if

17:54

I want to grow. This is also

17:56

a tough thing for introverts, Lorraine. How

17:58

do we ask for feedback when we

18:00

look at our boss and people around us and they

18:02

seem so busy? It's really important

18:04

to have that regular feedback

18:06

because we don't want to wait

18:08

a year. to find out that something's wrong

18:10

or we should have been working on a

18:12

skill that would have gotten us promoted. Like

18:14

that's too long. And so again, becoming the

18:16

CEO of your own career, you have to

18:18

take things into your own hands. You may

18:21

have the best manager in the world, but

18:23

to your point, like everyone is really busy.

18:25

And so what I think is important to

18:27

do is to make it really clear what

18:29

your goals are and carve out time, right?

18:31

Ask your manager what makes sense, you know,

18:33

given both our schedules. So at

18:35

Prezi, I had a I believe it was

18:37

monthly to start, a monthly career conversation chat.

18:39

So separate from our one -on -ones, I was

18:41

like, I want to get promoted. I want

18:43

to become a director. I'm going

18:46

to set aside this time for us. Does

18:48

that work for you? And then eventually

18:50

it changed cadence, right? But to start, I

18:52

was very intentional. I wanted to talk

18:54

each month, check in, how am I doing,

18:56

learn about my manager too. I think your

18:58

manager would love this, by the way,

19:00

would love this. Most managers, because they

19:02

know that you're engaged. Oh, 100%.

19:04

Yeah. And then I got the promotion. I

19:06

feel like we were both always on the

19:08

same page and there's never I doubt what

19:10

my goals were. She knew. That's

19:13

fabulous. Which brings up the promotion. Promotions

19:15

and raises happen with enough time.

19:17

That's the old way of thinking. New

19:19

way of thinking. And you just

19:21

reference this. I need to advocate for

19:23

myself. We also

19:25

fear Lorraine our differences. I

19:28

love this woman you pointed to, Linda Tong,

19:31

I think is a great early story in

19:33

the book because Linda really I think exudes

19:35

this point that sometimes our differences can be

19:37

our kick -ass strength. Yes, I love

19:39

Linda's story. So Linda is the CEO

19:41

of a tech company called Webflow and

19:43

she used to work at the NFL.

19:45

And she's an Asian American woman. And

19:48

so I was asking her about

19:50

whether she's faced bias or like

19:52

how you can leverage perhaps your

19:54

differences to stand out. And she

19:56

said like, yeah, I'm sure sometimes

19:58

maybe there were negative stereotypes being

20:00

an Asian or being a woman. But

20:02

instead of kind of dwelling on those

20:04

and being like, oh, these are blockers

20:06

to me getting to the next step,

20:08

she instead flipped it on a 10.

20:10

She said, okay, you might have these

20:12

assumptions about me, but I'm going to

20:14

prove you wrong. And I'm going to

20:16

show that I'm the biggest NFL fan

20:18

and that I have opinions and I

20:20

have expertise in this area. And it

20:22

almost becomes a strength because you're defying

20:24

people's perhaps lower expectations of you. And

20:27

so that to me was very powerful.

20:29

And also another communications expert, Vinjane, said something similar

20:31

in that people said faces like you, we don't

20:33

see those on us stages. And he said, I'm

20:35

not going to dwell on that. And so I'm

20:37

going to be the best at what I do.

20:39

And I'm going to, I'm going to show you

20:41

all. That's fabulous. That's fantastic

20:43

because between our ears, we get focused

20:45

on our differences. We get focused and

20:47

we think it's a weakness when it

20:49

can be your superpower. Yeah.

20:51

All right. Let's start building

20:54

this foundation. You talk about

20:56

having an epic career brand.

20:58

What is epic career brand?

21:00

Epic stands for

21:02

experiences, personality, identity,

21:05

and community. And these are

21:07

the four ingredients that are very important to

21:09

think about when you are reflecting on, okay,

21:11

what do I want my career brand to

21:13

be? What is it right now? And

21:16

so experiences, these are going to be

21:18

experiences both personal and professional that have got

21:20

you to where you are today. personality.

21:22

So for example, we are Joe and

21:25

I are introverts and some people might be

21:27

extroverts, more serious, more playful, the energy,

21:29

you know, bunny in the group identity.

21:32

These can be your cultural background or

21:34

values. This is also work value. So

21:36

what's important to me? How do I

21:38

operate? So for example, relationships are super

21:40

important to me and also being someone

21:42

who is reliable. And when people come

21:44

to me and I say, I'm going

21:46

to do something like they know, like

21:48

Lorraine is going to get it done. And

21:51

then the fourth piece, community, which I think

21:53

a lot of people, this is where they

21:55

forget is, okay, I might have the EPI

21:57

all set in my head of what I

21:59

want people to think of when they think of

22:01

me. But if your community is not seeing

22:03

you in that way, there's a disconnect.

22:06

There's that alignment that needs to happen. You can't

22:08

have a brand where you're almost shooting too high

22:10

from where you are right now and your community

22:12

sees you as maybe a more junior person, but

22:14

you're like, I'm the, the C -suite level, you

22:16

know, like it has to kind of align and

22:18

then you sort of. bring them up with you

22:21

as things change and transform during your career. When

22:23

I talk to new podcasters and

22:25

I'm giving them advice about how to

22:27

start their show after I tell

22:29

them don't. When

22:32

I'm diving into it with them, they always

22:34

say, well, I don't know what to talk

22:36

about. I don't have anything to talk about.

22:38

And to your point, your experiences is yours.

22:40

Your personality is yours, your identity. And

22:43

you talk about starting there like being

22:45

100%. And I know the word authentic

22:47

is overused, Lorraine, and some people roll

22:49

their eyes, but truly it is about

22:51

being authentically who you are, showing up

22:53

as who you are. Again, not

22:55

being this braggadocio person on LinkedIn or

22:57

wherever you're meeting your audience. Yeah,

23:00

I think a lot of people get in

23:02

their heads and they think, oh, if I'm going

23:04

to say something or have a brand, I

23:06

need to be the smartest, most unique

23:08

person out there. But

23:10

looking at EPI out of

23:12

Epic, we all have our own

23:14

lived experiences. There's always

23:17

going to be people out there talking about

23:19

similar things. I say this a lot on LinkedIn

23:21

that there's tons of people talking about similar

23:23

topics to me, but we all have different stories

23:25

and we all have a different approach and

23:27

we all have different backgrounds. And so that's that

23:29

connection. That's what people resonate with. And to

23:31

not, not worry about being the most original out

23:33

there, but being you, because people connect with

23:35

people. So people will want to learn from you

23:37

specifically. Let's talk about. Some differences

23:39

between the sexes. When we talked about

23:41

promotions earlier in raises, you've seen the

23:43

studies as much as I have. Women

23:45

don't advocate for themselves enough. The

23:48

studies show your boss wants to give you the raise. You

23:50

don't want to rock the boat. Men

23:52

have trouble being vulnerable, Lorraine.

23:54

So when you talk about

23:56

your experience, how much vulnerability

23:58

when you're on social media

24:00

advocating for yourself is

24:02

the right amount. You always

24:04

want to keep it professional still when

24:06

you're on LinkedIn. I love that

24:08

I've been seeing a lot more

24:10

personal stories on LinkedIn. And I think

24:13

that's really what people connect to.

24:15

So talking about a layoff or talking

24:17

about trouble getting promoted or talking

24:19

about how you negotiated the raise or

24:21

how you perhaps didn't get a

24:23

funding round that you wanted. I think

24:25

those are all things that we

24:28

can connect to. It's like a common

24:30

human experience, right? Failing quote

24:32

unquote. But These are all

24:34

learning experiences, right? I don't like to call them

24:36

failures. Like each quote unquote failure leads to a learning

24:38

that gets you to the next point in your

24:40

life. I think showing vulnerability is great and you just

24:42

want to keep it professional. You don't want to

24:44

get like too personal, but I think like you use

24:47

your best judgment, right? I think those personal stories

24:49

really help people get to know us and then connect

24:51

with us and want to root for us. I

24:53

love the start of that. You're implying, uh,

24:55

listen to social media, not your therapist. Yeah.

24:59

But there are some times, frankly, when I've seen

25:01

people, I'm like, I think you need help.

25:03

I think you really shouldn't be sharing this here.

25:05

You need to share someplace else. This

25:07

is a big point that you

25:09

make, which is where you

25:11

show up is important. How do

25:13

we decide where we're going

25:15

to show up and talk about

25:17

our career brand? The

25:20

where piece of presence is so important. And

25:22

I was really excited to include this in

25:24

the book. So what I'm doing is I'm,

25:26

I'm redefining what presence means. So a lot

25:29

of people, they hear presence, they think executive

25:31

presence, how I show up in a board

25:33

room, right? Right. I walk into a room and

25:35

I puff up my chest. Yes. And I'm on

25:37

that executive presence. But I think executive

25:39

presence is just one piece of the puzzle.

25:41

So I like to call it professional

25:43

presence more broadly. And what it means is

25:45

how and where you are seen. And

25:47

so the how piece, a lot of us.

25:49

do well. But as you said, like

25:51

the where piece is really critical, especially in

25:53

our new world of work, where we're

25:55

all over the place, some of us are

25:57

remote, some of us are going in

25:59

person, like there's a lot of places now

26:01

where we can connect with each other,

26:03

get to know each other. And so

26:05

we want to make sure that we're

26:07

showing up in those spaces and we're

26:09

being seen by the right people, right?

26:11

And so to be on video calls

26:13

and have a strong virtual and video

26:15

presence to be on LinkedIn and have

26:17

a LinkedIn presence and have people be

26:19

able to form an opinion about you

26:21

and an impression of you even before

26:23

meeting you. Like those things are very powerful

26:25

and should not be discounted, especially given the way

26:27

that we work now. So that where piece, I

26:30

mean, you can have one part of the formula,

26:32

the how without the where you're not going to

26:34

be seen as much. You can have the where,

26:36

but if you're not doing the hard work and

26:38

you're not. delivering that will only get you so

26:40

far as well. So you really need both parts

26:42

of that formula. I got really excited reading about

26:44

this, I have to say, because I've messed up

26:46

a lot of stuff during my career. But

26:48

one thing I did really well was when I

26:50

was doing interviews, I believe in

26:52

modeling and you model the way

26:55

that you want people to perceive

26:57

you. So I would model Lorraine

26:59

Rockstars in interviews and you are

27:01

Rolling Stone magazine and I'm Joe

27:03

Badass. And then I get

27:05

this confidence, you know, not necessarily

27:07

overly cocky, but I get this confidence.

27:09

I get this whatever. And I

27:12

would generally get the job because I

27:14

would exude this confidence, which frankly, sometimes

27:16

I didn't really feel. But the second

27:18

piece of that, I think clips

27:20

along with that great, which is

27:22

if I'm a rock star, I'm taking

27:24

my show on the road. and

27:26

which venues I play are going

27:28

to influence the entire arc of my

27:30

career if I show up at

27:32

this meeting, if I skip this meeting.

27:35

And just the fact that you're thinking about that

27:37

again, and you're engaged, you're higher up see

27:39

that how much you're engaged in the right place.

27:41

Yeah. Oh, I love that analogy. It

27:43

is so, so fun. Well, speaking of zoom, let's

27:46

end today. If you don't mind by getting

27:48

tactical and I love a lot of the tactical

27:50

stuff that you do here. But can we

27:52

talk about zoom because all of us are on

27:54

zoom calls and you know, well, you clearly

27:56

know, because you talk about this a lot in

27:58

your book when you're talking about video. Oh

28:00

my goodness, Lorraine, some of the people, the way you

28:02

show up, you're like, if you thought about this for 30

28:04

seconds, you can do better. So talk

28:06

to me about video. What's important to

28:08

make sure that that zoom experience

28:11

is really good and you kind of

28:13

show up well from a technical

28:15

aspect. Of course. I'm so glad you're asking

28:17

about this, Joe, because to your point, like people

28:19

sometimes are like video, like we all know video, it's

28:21

been many years. And then you get on calls

28:23

with people and you're like, whoa. It's

28:27

been many years and you still

28:29

still still. Yeah, and

28:31

so I talk about this framework

28:33

called the T method and T stands

28:35

for tech, energy and aesthetics. These

28:38

are meant to be the three. key criteria

28:40

to think about before getting on any video call.

28:42

It's not meant to be overwhelming because you can

28:44

get really fancy with it, but I don't think

28:46

you have to to make a strong impression. And

28:48

so tech, making sure you

28:50

have an external microphone, an external

28:52

webcam, that you have the

28:54

relevant software that you need to make

28:56

sure that you're showing up well, sounding good

28:59

on camera is very important. The

29:01

energy piece, making sure that

29:03

you are engaging with the

29:05

person at the start and

29:07

not giving into autopilot. conversations

29:09

as I call them and building that

29:11

connection and knowing how to show

29:13

up with energy and really a

29:15

little bit more energy than you probably think is

29:17

necessary because we have this barrier of the screen

29:20

now that we have to break through. And then

29:22

aesthetics. So you want to make sure

29:24

you're looking good on camera. And so that means making

29:26

sure that you have the right framing. So you don't

29:28

want too much space above your head where it looks

29:30

like, you know, my head is towards the bottom

29:32

of the screen. And then it looks like you're looking

29:34

down on me, Joe, or, and I'm looking up at

29:36

you, or vice versa, where I'm looking down on you,

29:38

or you're seeing like up my nose or under

29:40

my chin. Like you want to make sure you have

29:42

the right framing. It's straight on. You want to make

29:45

sure. you're showing some of your torso so that

29:47

you can use your hands on camera because

29:49

hands on camera is a very positive

29:51

thing. And then you want to have the

29:53

right lighting, curate your background, your environment.

29:55

So a lot of pieces to it, they're

29:57

not hard though. So like you said,

29:59

like take 30 seconds, you know, a few minutes to

30:01

kind of go through the checklist in the book

30:03

and you'll make some quick adjustments and I'll make a

30:05

big difference. Yeah. And every little

30:07

piece matters. I know that sometimes I

30:09

interview people and they just don't have

30:11

that external mic and they're on this

30:13

nation. wide. book tour or

30:16

media tour. And I'm like, why wouldn't

30:18

you spend $100 on your career, like

30:20

the microphone piece alone? And then to

30:22

your point, the lighting, I mean, and

30:24

you know what, Lorraine, let's just for

30:26

people not watching us on YouTube, I'm

30:29

going to describe it, but your

30:31

background is not elaborate, but it

30:33

is attractive. And you've got just

30:35

a bookshelf behind you with a

30:37

photo on one side, plants,

30:39

and then your book strategically behind

30:41

your head. It's very nice.

30:43

And I would bet that didn't

30:45

cost you much money to

30:48

create a nice aesthetically pleasing background.

30:50

Yeah, not at all. I get comments on

30:52

it all the time and people are like, is that a

30:54

fake background? I'm like. No, this is real, but thank

30:56

you. Yeah, it just, I think

30:58

it takes more thought than money

31:00

to make that happen. Guys, we just

31:02

began digging into all of the

31:04

lessons in Lorraine's new book that came

31:06

out yesterday. Unforgettable Presence, Get Seen, Gain

31:09

Influence, and Catapult Your Career. Thank you

31:11

so much for mentoring our stackers today,

31:13

Lorraine. This is available everywhere yesterday, correct?

31:16

Yes, it is. And I'm so excited for everyone to

31:18

start reading it. Thank you so

31:20

much. Hopefully you just help our

31:22

stackers stack a few more Benjamins,

31:24

Lorraine. Thank you for having

31:26

me. Hey

31:31

there, stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor,

31:33

Doug. And how about Lorraine Lee,

31:35

huh? You're sure to score that

31:37

promotion now. Lorraine mentioned she was

31:39

a junior executive with LinkedIn. And

31:41

so let's ask that question, which

31:44

big company owns LinkedIn? I'll

31:46

be back right after I go update my LinkedIn

31:48

profile to say that I'm busy. Wait,

31:50

how would Lorraine Lee upgrade that statement

31:52

to make it, uh, somewhat professional? Oh,

31:54

I know. Oh, I got it. She'd

31:56

have me type that I'm engaged, you

31:58

know, in the making this show.

32:01

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32:03

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33:41

Hey there, stackers. I'm engaged guy

33:43

and man who's very confused about all

33:45

of the accolades I'm receiving, Joe's Mom's

33:48

Neighbor Doug. I mean, you tell people

33:50

you're engaged and immediately they write confusing

33:52

stuff like, who's the lucky lady with

33:54

a question mark? What? Well,

33:56

people must assume that when you use

33:58

professional language, the ladies love you, I

34:00

guess. That's gotta be it.

34:03

Today's question was about Lorraine's first

34:05

employer, LinkedIn. I just

34:07

told OG that I heard that LinkedIn had

34:09

a house band called LinkedIn Park. He

34:11

replied that in the end, it doesn't really

34:13

matter. It's a pretty brutal

34:15

response, OG. But the

34:17

trivia question for today was

34:19

this, what ginormous company owns LinkedIn?

34:22

That would be the Windows

34:24

company, Microsoft. And now here

34:26

to help you upgrade your operating system

34:28

for your money, it's Joe and OG. I

34:31

think, Doug, to be fair, OG's reply

34:33

was, but in the end, it doesn't really

34:35

matter. Oh, it just

34:37

occurred to me. You were singing a LinkedIn

34:39

Park song, weren't you? OG's all about the LinkedIn

34:41

Park. Huh. I put those

34:43

two things together. Good stuff. Thanks

34:45

for helping. Speaking of good stuff,

34:47

thank you so much to Lorraine

34:49

Lee for helping us get our

34:51

Zoom presence taken care of and

34:53

getting that career technically aligned. Let's

34:56

do a headline. Hello,

34:58

darlings. And now it's time for

35:00

your favorite part of the

35:02

show, our stacking Benjamin's headlines. Today's

35:04

headline comes to us from

35:06

The Wall Street Journal. It's written

35:08

by Veronica Dagger, who's been

35:10

on this show, Joe Pinxer and

35:12

Oyan Adonian. And I think

35:14

I messed up Oyan's name as

35:16

no, you never do that.

35:18

Interesting piece, because what they peel

35:20

off here, oh, gee, all

35:23

we're reading about right now is

35:25

that there's so much stuff going

35:27

on with this thing called tariffs.

35:29

Not sure what that is. Never

35:31

hear about that lately at all.

35:34

But with all of the uncertainty,

35:36

how do we make major financial

35:38

decisions? And so they peel off

35:40

a bunch of different decisions. Veronica

35:43

and company write, suddenly all the usual

35:45

rules about a safe investment spend seem

35:47

like they're up in the air. Uncertainty

35:49

about the economy in a new area of extreme

35:51

unpredictable swings in the markets are making us all

35:53

rethink decisions about everything from paying for college to

35:56

buying a car. So let's go through a few

35:58

of these. Oh gee, get your take. I hate

36:00

this kind of writing. It's

36:02

such bull. Every

36:05

time people like I don't even

36:07

want to talk about this. This

36:09

is just let's say that I

36:11

plan people are trying to keep

36:13

their jobs by writing sensational on

36:15

the internet like unprecedented market swings.

36:18

I mean, unless you count five

36:20

years ago when this happened exactly

36:22

like this, only three times as

36:24

worse, then yes, this is unprecedented. Okay.

36:27

You know, people are rethinking how to pay

36:29

for college. No, they're not. Like your

36:32

kids still going to college next year. It's

36:34

not like, well, sorry, junior, the market's

36:36

down 4%. Guess you're out of luck. He's

36:39

rethinking college. So

36:41

let's say that I planned

36:43

on buying a house. This

36:46

spring, mortgage rates have

36:48

been inching up OG.

36:51

And people are worried a little about market

36:53

interest rate rises, you mean? They

36:57

skyrocketed from

36:59

6 .75 to

37:01

7 .05. If

37:03

interest rates go

37:05

higher, what do I

37:07

do about make a bigger down payment?

37:09

buy in the house make a bigger

37:11

down payment so then you wait because

37:13

often people are struggling to come up

37:15

with that down payment in the first

37:17

place you're saying wait yeah make a

37:19

bigger down payment if you gotta wait

37:21

or just lower the price by a

37:23

smidge because i would bet that that's

37:25

somewhat commensurate depends on where you live

37:27

right obviously there's certain areas of the

37:29

economy certain areas of the country rather that

37:32

housing prices are not having any issues and

37:34

the interest rate changes are not having any

37:36

effect on market demand. But to kind of

37:38

give you an idea, people will freak out

37:40

about this, right? And say like, oh

37:43

my God, the interest rates went from six and a

37:45

half to seven and a half. I'm totally screwed. The

37:47

difference on the payment for a $400

37:49

,000 mortgage over 30 years is like

37:51

250 bucks a month. Now, I'm

37:53

not saying that $250 a month isn't any

37:55

money or a lot of money or not a

37:58

lot of money. It's a number. But

38:00

if your budget is so tight, that

38:03

$200 makes the difference. You shouldn't

38:05

be buying this house anyway, because frankly,

38:07

the windows could blow in or the roof could

38:09

cave in or the water heater can take

38:11

a crap or whatever. We just had a $200

38:14

AC repair that seems like we're repairing every

38:16

15 months. And when I said it to the

38:18

guy, I go, huh, the capacitor again, huh?

38:20

He goes, yeah, these things just, you know, you

38:22

live in Texas, man, the thing's running 20

38:24

hours a day in the summertime, nonstop,

38:26

you know, it's basically nonstop for nine

38:29

months out of the year. it's going to

38:31

die at the rate of about once

38:33

every year. You know, and I'm thinking, okay,

38:36

all right, you know, it's not a budget item,

38:38

but it wasn't in the budget, right? It's like

38:40

$200. And if $200 is going to make or

38:42

break it, you shouldn't buy this house anyway. We

38:44

talked about this a couple of weeks ago. I

38:47

don't understand why people think that,

38:49

you know, I think the phrase

38:51

is don't compare your beginning to

38:53

somebody else's middle, you know,

38:55

and it's like, you hear these things like, well,

38:57

I'm 25 years old, I can't buy a

38:59

house. It's like, okay, so wait

39:01

till you're 30, save more

39:03

money, live in a cheaper area. I

39:05

don't want to sound ultra insensitive, but there's no

39:07

rule that says you have to buy a house

39:09

when you're 25. And so

39:11

if the interest rate change makes an impact

39:13

that you can no longer afford it,

39:16

then you were too close anyway, frankly. I

39:18

love this idea Or get a different

39:20

mortgage, get an arm. I mean,

39:22

there's a thousand ways to deal with this. And

39:24

I love your focus, which is focus on

39:26

the things that you can control, right? I can

39:29

control the size of the house that I

39:31

buy. I can control whether I sign on the

39:33

dotted line for this price for the house.

39:35

I can't control what the interest rate fluctuation is

39:37

going to be. And if it's close to

39:39

your point, if I think there's a chance that

39:41

my budget may get out of control, the

39:43

level of debt might get out of control, then

39:46

I shouldn't buy it. Yeah, I mean, it

39:48

was $200 one way or the other. That's too

39:50

tight anyway. Way way way way too tight.

39:52

I love some advice stackers we've given in the

39:54

past, which is take a look on a

39:56

calculator at what that's going to cost you what

39:58

you think that monthly payments going to be

40:00

and play test it for a few months at

40:03

a time. I was talking to somebody the

40:05

other day about this. I feel like it was

40:07

about a house purchase, maybe house upgrade. And

40:09

it was in the same vein. It was like,

40:11

look, if you think that In

40:13

July, you can afford a $400

40:15

a month mortgage price increase. You

40:18

ought to be saving $400 a month. How come

40:20

you can't save $400? Oh, you know, I was

40:22

really tight. What are you going to do when

40:24

it's due? If you're

40:26

in that situation where you're upgrading or where

40:28

you're moving into a new thing or

40:30

you're saying, hey, I think we can afford

40:32

this deal, if you can afford it

40:34

in July, you can afford it today. I think there's

40:37

also something to be said. Interest rates

40:39

can be high for a long

40:41

time, and these aren't high interest

40:43

rates. Yeah, it's kind of normal,

40:45

actually. These are normal interest rates. Yeah,

40:47

if you widen your view, it definitely is

40:49

normal. But I love what real estate

40:51

investors always say about this. Buy

40:53

the property, date the rate, right? Don't

40:55

get obsessed with the fact that I

40:57

got to keep this interest rate forever.

40:59

I can refinance later on. Yeah, I

41:01

mean, that's not a free proposition either.

41:03

And again, I just come back to like,

41:06

I think we're focusing on the wrong

41:08

syllable. Like that's what Mrs. Slates used

41:10

to say in second grade. The

41:12

reality is, you shouldn't be so snug

41:14

in your budget. that an interest rate

41:16

change, and it's not changing by a

41:18

whole percentage point, it's changing by, you

41:20

know, a tenth of a percent or

41:22

something, that's going to matter. And frankly,

41:25

you should be doing this the right way anyway. You

41:27

should be putting 20 % down on your house. And if

41:29

that means you have to wait three more years because

41:31

you need to save more cash, you

41:33

want to give yourself that margin of safety.

41:35

I bought a house with zero down

41:37

interest only. I wish that

41:39

somebody would have knocked me into a coma

41:41

for five years as I was about

41:43

to do that deal because that would have

41:45

been a better outcome for me. It

41:47

was so miserable every single solitary month with

41:49

not a drip of margin of safety.

41:51

We bought our house in Michigan, the

41:53

literal peak of the market at the

41:55

time in 2004. And by two

41:58

years later, our house was worth half as

42:00

much. We put zero down, so we were

42:02

upside down every single dollar the difference was.

42:04

And it was interest only. So we had

42:06

made zero principal payments on this thing in

42:08

two and a half years. When we

42:10

sold the house 10 years later, We

42:12

sold it for what we bought it for

42:14

and walked away with $6 ,000 after 10

42:16

years of mortgage payments because we got,

42:18

you know, I will say we got kind

42:20

of snuckered into it. That was self -inflicted,

42:22

absolutely. But at the end of the

42:24

day, you know, don't put yourself in a

42:27

position where every single solitary dollar has

42:29

to be exactly perfect because if you have

42:31

the AC repair or you have the,

42:33

you know, something wrong with the car or,

42:35

you know, some unexpected travel that you

42:37

have to do, mom and dad are sick

42:39

and you need to go home. It's

42:42

too stressful. Take the

42:44

pain up front. The pain up front is, I need

42:46

to save for another year to make a bigger

42:48

down payment. But then you have

42:51

a lifetime of not as much

42:53

pain instead of a lifetime of pain

42:55

for one year of extra house

42:57

living. Let's go to a

42:59

slight tangent. Somebody's been in their

43:01

house for a while, OG, but... know,

43:03

not in love with the interest

43:05

rate they have right now. A couple

43:07

of weeks ago, rates briefly dropped

43:09

literally for two days. We saw a

43:12

nice drop in interest rates. Refinancing

43:14

activity jumped by 35 %

43:16

according to the Mortgage

43:18

Bankers Association. So here's

43:20

the question. Should

43:22

I be looking like apparently a

43:25

lot of people have been looking

43:27

to refinance? Refinancing is a

43:29

very personal decision as it relates

43:31

to what the terms are. and

43:33

the cost structure of what you

43:35

have originally. I mean, for somebody

43:37

who has a bunch of debt

43:39

at 27%, getting a home equity

43:41

line at 10 is a bargain.

43:44

For somebody that's got a bunch

43:46

of debt at four, refinancing

43:48

at six is the stupidest idea

43:50

imaginable. So it's really, really particular

43:52

about your situation. And I think the other

43:54

piece of it is all the cost structure

43:56

that goes into it. These are not. you know,

43:58

zero dollar cost deals. So you have to

44:00

even if even if you're like, I had a

44:02

seven and now I can get a six,

44:04

it's like, well, but what's

44:07

the cost to get the six in

44:09

terms of payback time? Yeah, I

44:11

remember a mortgage broker telling me also

44:13

that whenever you look up rates

44:15

online, often this is banks, he calls

44:17

their best lie, because the way

44:19

that they will publish a cheaper rate

44:22

is by increasing the fees, right

44:24

when you sign on the deadline. Yeah,

44:26

everything counts. in that calculation. Just

44:28

because you see, well, I can get

44:30

this for 5%, asterisk with a

44:32

$50 ,000 payment of fees. It's like,

44:34

okay, so what does that effectively turn

44:36

into in terms of the long -term

44:39

piece of the loan? Next

44:41

one they have here is, of

44:43

course, as we record this, stocks have

44:45

bounced off the lows and contrary

44:47

to all the things that we were

44:49

telling you here, a stacker

44:51

and you can't take back the sins

44:53

of the past, OG. You panicked

44:55

and you sold some stocks at a

44:58

loss. Is there a way to

45:00

turn that into some tech savings, maybe? Well,

45:02

so you're saying that there's somebody out there

45:05

who did freak out, like what do you

45:07

do now? Did freak out, they sold their

45:09

stuff at a loss. Now they're sitting on

45:11

cash, number one, and the market's higher than

45:13

it was when they sold off the bottom.

45:15

And then number two is, it's

45:17

all sitting there, can I? I don't

45:19

know. Can I turn these lemons into

45:21

lemonade? Well, the only thing you

45:23

can do to write the asset allocation

45:25

problem is to be back to where it

45:27

should be. So if you made a

45:29

mistake, don't compound the mistake by keeping it

45:31

in cash and watching the market go

45:33

ever higher. And I'm not guessing at what

45:36

the market's going to do. I'm just

45:38

saying it's pretty difficult to time this out

45:40

correctly both times. It's hard to say

45:42

whether or not you timed it out correctly the first time if

45:44

you're in cash right now. But don't try to

45:46

time it out the second time and you have

45:48

to buy back in. Now the problem is, is that

45:50

if you're buying back in and you took a

45:52

loss on something, you can't buy those same things back

45:54

or you will not get the tax benefit of

45:56

the loss. So if you had an ETF, you

45:59

know, you bought it for $10 ,000 and you freaked out and

46:01

you sold it at $9 ,000, you have to

46:03

wait 31 days before you buy back

46:05

that same ETF. So buy something that's similar

46:07

but not the same one. If

46:10

you had a stock and you're like, well, I had Apple.

46:12

And I sold it at a loss. I freaked out like

46:14

I want to get Apple back. You can't buy Apple for

46:16

a month. And the big risk obviously

46:18

is waiting that month in cash. Nobody knows

46:20

what's going to happen. And this all just

46:22

boils back down to when do you need the money? If

46:25

this is long term money, if this is

46:27

money for your retirement, you should have no concerns

46:29

about what's going on. You're not going to

46:31

remember whether or not you bought when the S

46:33

&P was at $5 ,200. $5 ,100,

46:35

$5 ,400, $4 ,900. All

46:37

you're going to be happy is that you bought

46:39

it sometime in 2025 when you go to take

46:41

the money out in 2045. You're

46:43

not going to remember the price at

46:45

which you purchased. So get back in.

46:47

Yeah. All in one fell swoop. Get

46:49

back in, get in now. And I

46:51

think the big thing, you know, we

46:53

spoke with Lorraine about tactics and we

46:56

also on Monday spoke about Rory McElroy

46:58

talking about how, you know, you fall

47:00

to what your systems are. I think

47:02

you also have to recognize you've made

47:04

a mistake and then create a system

47:06

so that doesn't happen again. And I

47:08

think that's an investment policy statement that

47:10

you create. Like, what's the system I'm

47:12

going to have to make sure that

47:14

I don't pull the trigger at the

47:16

wrong time? I want to ask about

47:18

one area around tariffs. I think that's

47:20

pretty important for a lot of people.

47:22

Let's say it's that time, OG, to

47:25

maybe seven, eight, nine months from now,

47:27

you think you were thinking about a

47:29

new car, but now we're looking at

47:31

the possibility of higher tariffs in 60,

47:33

70, 80 days on the car. Do

47:35

I pull the trigger early? Do

47:37

I wait longer? Where do you

47:39

stand on making that big car purchase

47:41

right now? Well, if

47:43

that's something that's on the horizon, I don't think it's

47:45

a bad idea, although I did just see a

47:47

commercial and I don't remember the car manufacturer, but

47:50

I did just see a commercial

47:52

that said, we are not increasing the

47:54

MSRP on our vehicles one bit,

47:56

no matter what happens. That's their like

47:58

promise to the consumer. I think

48:00

that's just such a great example of

48:02

what's really going on in boardrooms

48:04

while all of this chaos is going

48:06

on around here. We've talked about

48:08

this a lot in the last six

48:11

or eight months that I love

48:13

being an owner of these companies because

48:15

everyone's interests are aligned the same. The

48:17

challenging part of the tariff issue

48:19

is that it's hard to predict what

48:22

you have to do. Walmart

48:24

a couple of weeks ago said, we can't

48:26

give you any guidance on second quarter earnings

48:28

because We don't know if this box

48:30

of avocados gonna cost us two dollars and fifty

48:32

cents of avocado or fifty cents of avocado and it

48:34

changes by the hour. So we don't have any

48:36

idea what to tell you people to help us figure

48:38

out the math which is unfair to them. What

48:41

what it also tells us you know

48:43

with this car commercial is that all these

48:45

people are sitting around you know their

48:47

boardrooms and their executive offices going how do

48:49

we solve this so we make freaking

48:51

money because all they care about. At walmart

48:53

the executors at walmart is making freaking

48:55

money for walmart that's all they care about

48:57

and if you're a little microscopic owner

48:59

of that company you have these smart people

49:01

who are all lined up to do

49:03

the same thing because they're in it with

49:05

you. And so even though all of

49:07

your net worth probably isn't all wrapped up

49:09

in walmart or apple or google or

49:11

whatever all of these people. all are rowing

49:14

the boat in the same direction. Well,

49:16

what's interesting about this too is they know

49:18

there's only X amount that they can

49:20

raise the price and you'll accept it. They

49:22

know that if the price goes up

49:24

too much, it's going to smoke them. They're

49:26

done. I mean, this is the problem

49:28

that everybody's trying to solve, which is how

49:30

are we going to account for this

49:32

new thing that may or may not happen?

49:35

And to what extent do we account for

49:37

it? And how does it affect us? And

49:39

how do we make money? And how can

49:41

we raise prices without consumers being mad? And

49:43

how far that, like, all these people are

49:45

just thinking about that. Thousands and thousands and

49:47

thousands of really smart people are trying to

49:49

decide how much of avocados should cost at

49:51

Walmart right now. And you're the benefit

49:53

of that. You don't have to think about any of this

49:55

stuff. You just have to go, hey, they're trying to

49:57

make us money, man. High five. Guys at Coke trying to

49:59

make us money. High five. Guys at Apple trying to

50:01

make us money. High five. And they're all in it together.

50:03

This is what's so awesome about this. by

50:05

being an equity owner, by owning all these companies,

50:07

is you don't have to worry about any of this

50:09

crap. Now, maybe you delay your

50:11

house purchase or maybe you pull forward a car

50:13

purchase or whatever, that's fine. But you're not

50:16

sitting there going, oh my gosh, how does Walmart

50:18

make money today? Unless you're sitting in one

50:20

of the boardrooms in which case you're doing that.

50:22

But maybe some of your money is also

50:24

invested in these other companies and you're letting them

50:26

handle their business. Which is why you don't

50:28

invest heavily in the company you work for. Well,

50:30

I mean, sometimes, you know, obviously, you can't

50:32

control that, right? If you're an executive at Walmart,

50:34

lots of your compensation is tied up in

50:36

Walmart stock. But maybe you have some Apple shares

50:38

and you have some Amazon and you have

50:41

some JCPenney or whatever, you know what mean? are

50:43

smart people are telling them to diversify a

50:45

portion of their net worth. They're trying to do

50:47

all this too. Absolutely. All

50:49

of this is short term price

50:51

fluctuation because of the unknown

50:53

of future short term future earnings

50:55

expectations. That's stock prices. Stock

50:57

prices are priced. based on how

51:00

much people, the market, believe

51:02

that they're going to earn in profit over

51:04

the next period of time. It doesn't have anything

51:06

to do with what they're going to earn

51:08

over the next 50 years. I do

51:10

like looking at what this individual car company

51:12

is saying, the type of car that you're buying,

51:14

like what's their take, what's their position. Because

51:17

we've seen all kinds of CEOs of

51:19

these companies. I saw the CEO of United

51:21

Airlines this morning as we record this

51:23

talking about what's on his mind with pricing,

51:25

which, by the way, is a lot different

51:27

than what you're seeing in the news. I

51:30

love what Veronica Dagger and company right

51:32

here. What about a used car? If

51:34

forecast put you off a new car,

51:36

she writes the used market likely won't

51:38

provide as much refuge as usual. Inventory

51:40

was them even before tariffs and supply

51:42

chain will several years ago met fewer

51:44

used cars. people scrambling to buy used

51:46

cars. So now those prices over the

51:48

short run going up. Yeah, maybe I

51:50

was at a car dealership, two of

51:52

them in the last couple of weeks

51:54

to get just regular car service. And

51:56

I noticed a market difference. And the

51:58

last time I was there, they have

52:00

there's so many cars on the lots

52:02

at these two places that I was

52:04

small. So a bunch, huh? There were

52:06

literally trucks lined up down the service

52:08

drive full of cars. Now these are

52:10

all new, right? So different. But Yeah,

52:13

I don't I don't know. I mean, obviously,

52:15

things are going to be affected by short

52:17

term spikes and sure, man, but they write

52:19

arguably the savviest financial move you can make

52:21

is not buy one if you can manage

52:23

it. But they say even that stands to

52:25

get costly or the Doug move here. You

52:27

don't want to do that. Tariffs on auto

52:30

parts plan for may mean drivers could see

52:32

higher repair and insurance bills, which is which

52:34

is Doug's justification to himself to buy the

52:36

very most expensive car I can get right

52:38

now. Doug wants to get one of those

52:40

like rat rods. Yes. And you see Doug

52:42

Ryan around. I need the 9 11. How

52:44

am I going to get to work? Actually,

52:46

I do need a 9 11. Yeah, there's

52:48

no bad example. That actually is something I

52:50

do need. And if anybody has one, I

52:52

would take it off your hands at a

52:54

very fair price. But that goes

52:56

into the decision making around car purchases in

52:58

particular. If you don't shop the insurance ahead

53:00

of time and you don't know what that

53:02

if you're going to buy a used car,

53:04

we were looking at a used car for

53:06

William. And I said, hey, take it into

53:08

the dealership. And Price

53:11

out all the stuff that's good. You know,

53:13

this is gonna go to a 16 year

53:15

old They don't know anything about anything like tell

53:17

me everything in these can fix it's like

53:19

oh well this $4 ,000 worth of stuff. It's

53:21

like oh Well, if it's a 9 -11,

53:23

that's a pretty good deal. It wasn't a

53:25

9 -11 So it was not a you know

53:27

what I mean? It doesn't doesn't make it

53:29

bad. It's just you got to go into with

53:31

the knowledge It was two of those numbers.

53:33

It was a 91. Yeah when When you

53:35

buy a new car you pay sales tax

53:37

sometimes when you buy used cars you don't

53:39

pay As much of a sales tax or any,

53:41

you know, that's that could be a big

53:43

number in Texas. It's six and a half

53:46

percent or six and a quarter buying a

53:48

brand new car for $50, $60 ,000 is $2

53:50

,500 of taxes paid, you know, not to mention

53:52

the depreciation. So I think all of that

53:54

stuff you have to factor into it, just

53:56

like we were talking about the mortgages. Everything

53:58

counts in that calculation. I'll link to this piece.

54:00

You'll need a subscription to the Wall Street

54:02

Journal to read it. But it's Apple News.

54:04

or to Apple News, yes. And

54:06

thanks to Doug, by the way, for gifting us

54:08

with this one. Doug's like, here's the topic. Appreciate it,

54:10

man. Yeah, nice work. Let's

54:13

meander out of the back

54:15

porch. Doug, we got some stackers

54:17

doing some cool, cool stuff,

54:19

or a stacker doing something cool.

54:21

A stacker. I wanted to

54:23

talk about super stacker cosette who

54:25

went to Japan and packed

54:27

one thing, a

54:29

stacking Benjamin's t -shirt. That's all you need.

54:31

That's all she took. all you need. Yeah,

54:33

and she took pictures of herself in

54:35

front of some interesting places. Very common place

54:37

for tourists to go. She went to

54:39

Hiroshima or Hiroshima. I'm not sure the correct

54:41

pronunciation there, but she also - I think

54:43

you pronounce it like self. Yeah.

54:46

Hiralshima. But

54:48

there's one picture in particular

54:50

that I've been trying to

54:53

Sherlock Holmes this thing because she's

54:55

standing in front of a

54:57

vending machine holding a can

54:59

of what I can only

55:01

surmise. are crab legs. A

55:03

can of crab legs. I don't know. That's

55:05

what the picture on the can like. From

55:07

a vending machine. From a vending machine. And

55:09

they sell some crazy in Japan through vending

55:11

machines. So it's possible. Right. Not as good

55:14

as vending machines sushi. But

55:16

a nice, a nice second. But

55:18

thank you, Cosette, for sending a

55:20

picture. She chose, I'm sure she has

55:23

many t -shirts to choose from. Sadly,

55:25

she didn't choose the Doug 2028.

55:27

T -shirt, she is wearing the circus,

55:29

the stacking Benjamin's greatest show on earth

55:31

T -shirt. Greatest money show on earth.

55:34

Cool green shirt, thanks Cosette for

55:37

bringing us along with you

55:39

and if you, if you can,

55:41

let's keep seeing stackers out

55:43

in the wild, showing off the

55:45

gear. Base camp of Mount

55:47

Everest, that'd be sweet, let's get one of

55:49

those pictures. That would be, we need that one.

55:52

I will be in Boston. Great

55:56

Joe, that sounds great. Why

55:59

don't you come too? You

56:01

can come to Boston. I

56:03

will be in Boston. We

56:07

don't have a home yet. I wanted

56:09

to have a home by the time

56:11

we recorded this, but stackers in the

56:13

Boston area, May 20th, May 20th, we

56:15

will have details to come, but we're

56:17

going to do a meetup, stacker meetup

56:19

in the Boston area of May 20th.

56:21

My daughter is graduating from Brandeis on

56:23

the 19th. And so hopefully, Autumn can

56:25

come along as well. She was there

56:27

at our last meetup. Actually, both my

56:29

twins were at the last meetup that

56:31

we had at Boston. So can't wait

56:33

to see Boston Area Stackers again on

56:35

May 20th. All right, that's going to

56:37

do it. Got a lot

56:39

of people to thank. But especially Lorraine

56:41

Lee, we will continue this conversation in

56:43

the Basement Facebook group. We'll continue it

56:46

on Spotify, where we always have some

56:48

fun. And let's also

56:50

continue it on the 201,

56:52

which is our newsletter, stackinbedgements.com

56:54

slash 201. All

56:56

right, Doug, what's our big three things

56:58

on our tool list today? Well,

57:01

Joe first, take some advice from

57:03

Lorraine Lee, not focusing on your

57:05

career brand. Others are and they

57:07

might not be drawing the conclusions you're

57:09

hoping for. So take charge with

57:11

some simple tactics. Second,

57:13

making big financial moves, focus on

57:15

the big picture and not on

57:17

current events for most of your

57:19

long -term moves, and you'll never make

57:21

better decisions. But the big

57:23

lesson? Definitely have

57:25

Lorraine Lee visit with your mom when she

57:28

comes to visit you. You should see how

57:30

mom's being all nice and making the best

57:32

snacks ever to suck up to Lorraine. Okay,

57:35

I may have planted that seed by

57:37

sharing a little bit about Lorraine's background,

57:39

just so she'd make the brownies with

57:41

the chocolate chips. Mission accomplished. Ta -ching! Thanks

57:44

to Lorraine Lee for joining us

57:47

today. You'll find her new book,

57:49

Unforgettable Presence. That's P

57:51

-R -E -S -E -N -C -E, Joe. unforgettable

57:54

presence, get seen, gain influence,

57:56

and catapult your career wherever books

57:58

are sold. We'll also include

58:00

links in our show notes at

58:03

stackingbenjamins.com. There's no L in

58:05

presence. This show is

58:07

the property of SB Podcast's LLC

58:09

Copyright 2025 and is created by

58:11

Joe Saul Seheidt. Joe gets to

58:13

help from a few of our

58:15

neighborhood friends. You'll find out about

58:18

our awesome team at stackingbenjamins.com, along

58:20

with the show notes and how

58:22

you can find us on YouTube

58:24

and all the usual social media

58:26

spots. Come say hello. Oh

58:28

yeah, and before I go, not

58:30

only should you not take advice

58:32

from these nerds, don't take advice

58:34

from people you don't know. This

58:36

show is for entertainment purposes only.

58:38

Before making any financial decisions, speak

58:40

with a real financial advisor. I'm

58:43

Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and we'll

58:45

see you next time, back here

58:47

at the Stacking Benjamin Show. I

59:41

forgot to mention during the show

59:43

that Cosette also has agreed to

59:45

join us on the Stecchi Vettur

59:47

show to talk about that. So

59:49

if you're interested in travel and

59:51

you want to hear travel stories,

59:54

Crystal Hammond and I dive into people's

59:56

stories about going to different places

59:58

and Cosette has agreed to share with

1:00:00

us what she did in Japan. Can

1:00:02

you ask her, you know, not for

1:00:04

nothing, like how odor resistant? the

1:00:06

stacking Benjamin's t -shirts are because if that's

1:00:09

all she packed I want to

1:00:11

know like where people not wanting to

1:00:13

sit next to her on the plane

1:00:15

right home. Did it hold up? Yeah,

1:00:17

how did it hold up? cozy. She doesn't

1:00:19

perspire. She's calm under pressure. Yeah,

1:00:23

it's never hot in Japan. Hey,

1:00:26

I got a question about food. What

1:00:28

is something that you make that you're very proud

1:00:30

of like you make yourself? My

1:00:33

egg sandwiches. that you're eating right now. I'm eating

1:00:35

right now. My God. I'm in it. Like

1:00:37

my eyes are rolling back in my head a

1:00:39

little bit. That you've been bragging about. I

1:00:41

mean, I'll show you. Look at what I made. Look

1:00:44

at that thing. You get the

1:00:46

ciabatta rolls or little square ciabatta rolls from

1:00:48

Costco. First thing you

1:00:50

do is you put the bacon on

1:00:52

the griddle. You know, normal amount, like

1:00:54

a dozen pieces, like the whole sheet

1:00:56

of bacon slices from Costco. You put

1:00:58

that whole thing on the griddle, get

1:01:00

the bacon fat on there. That's

1:01:03

first get that off get it soaking,

1:01:05

you know in the paper towel to get

1:01:07

off all that unhealthy fact the rest

1:01:09

of the bacon is totally healthy Totally percent

1:01:11

science and then on one half of

1:01:13

the griddle you crack this you separate the

1:01:15

trabata roll you put that face down

1:01:17

in the bacon grease So you're grilling the

1:01:19

bread a little bit and get it

1:01:21

nice and crispy and soaking up all that

1:01:23

flavor and the other half you crack

1:01:25

your eggs and You get them, you know

1:01:27

starting to fry on one side put

1:01:29

some seasoning on top. My choice is a

1:01:31

Chilean seasoning that

1:01:34

has lots of ingredients in it, I couldn't

1:01:36

name, but it gives it a non -spicy,

1:01:38

but sort of South American vibe and

1:01:40

a little bit of pepper. And

1:01:42

you get three of them, flip them, because you can't

1:01:44

have the messy yolk. You gotta get that yolk good

1:01:46

and hard so it doesn't drip all over you while

1:01:48

you're recording. And then you just

1:01:50

assemble all of that together. It'll

1:01:53

set you up for the day. Yeah,

1:01:55

this is the one thing that Doug makes.

1:01:57

Doug makes two things that he's proud of. He

1:01:59

makes this where he points the sandwich. He

1:02:01

makes another one where he points in the toilet

1:02:03

and goes, look what I made. Oh, Joe,

1:02:05

why did we have to do that? No,

1:02:08

he doesn't coming off as such

1:02:10

a sophisticated piece. It was. I

1:02:12

got to tell you, I made

1:02:14

something last week. We got a

1:02:16

red snapper and it was it

1:02:18

was so damn good. It

1:02:20

was so good. I'd never had red snapper before. It

1:02:23

was very meaty. And it was cool to

1:02:25

buy a fish because like, you know, you

1:02:27

got, I don't know about you guys, but I

1:02:29

go by the whole fish, like head eyeballs

1:02:31

and everything. I didn't do that. What's funny

1:02:33

though is that when I was looking at

1:02:35

recipes, they showed it the red snapper that way.

1:02:37

Thank God mine was not that because I

1:02:40

I'm not that advanced. I can't

1:02:42

debone my fish yet. You don't need to

1:02:44

have a conversation with your meal while you're

1:02:46

deboning it. I can't do that.

1:02:48

So how's your day going? I

1:02:50

did it. Not as

1:02:52

good as mine. I

1:02:55

did have a Bula Base in

1:02:57

Marseille when we were there. Hold

1:03:00

on. You said you didn't say

1:03:02

the L's in Marseille, but you say the

1:03:04

L's in Bula Base. Bula

1:03:06

Base. It's pronounced Bula

1:03:08

Base. You're just making a shit up now, aren't

1:03:10

you? Oh my God, did you're eating with your

1:03:12

mouth full? Anyway, I was very proud

1:03:14

of it because I got done. you know, I

1:03:16

don't know about you guys, but fish kind of

1:03:18

intimidates me at the grocery store. I'm like, I

1:03:20

can't make that. I can't make that. I can't

1:03:22

make that. So I decided to go out on

1:03:24

a limb and try to make red snapper and

1:03:26

we dig into it and Cheryl's a little afraid

1:03:28

of it. And next thing you know, she's

1:03:31

like, this is fantastic. This is

1:03:33

this is it was really, really

1:03:35

good. Lightly breaded some lemon seasoning,

1:03:38

just red snapper. Have you speaking of

1:03:40

foods that you're proud of? Oh, gee,

1:03:42

I know you've been trying to perfect

1:03:44

your brisket. How's that coming? Well,

1:03:47

the last time I did it, I

1:03:49

blew my grill up. What? Maybe don't

1:03:51

use gasoline as a heat source. It

1:03:53

blew your grill up the last time

1:03:55

you made brisket. Yeah, I

1:03:57

mean, the grill blew up. So he's

1:03:59

just he's just gonna edit their dog.

1:04:01

Period. Okay, end of story. Well, there

1:04:03

I mean, there is the rule that

1:04:05

when a man reaches the age of

1:04:07

40, he has to make a choice.

1:04:09

You either get really into smoking meats

1:04:11

or really into World War Two. You

1:04:13

clearly chose. Forty.

1:04:19

It's in the meat route. It's

1:04:21

in the handbook. Yeah. I mean, I

1:04:23

don't make the rules. No, it's serviceable. I'm

1:04:25

nowhere near my brother's way better. In

1:04:27

fact, when he comes down in a couple of weeks,

1:04:30

he doesn't know this yet, but he'll be making me a

1:04:32

brisket. You're

1:04:35

here. You're first. Yeah. That's

1:04:37

part of the deal. But but

1:04:39

he does the whole like lather it

1:04:41

in beef tallow and, you

1:04:43

know, he's got the whole, you know, Doug's

1:04:46

done that with his chest before. Yeah.

1:04:48

Yes. It's irresistible.

1:04:51

But not serviceable. I

1:04:53

do pretty good on the grill. Smoking.

1:04:56

Not as good, but I can get something you've

1:04:58

made recently. You're pretty proud of. I'm

1:05:01

a big fan of reverse

1:05:03

searing Tomahawk rib eyes. That's

1:05:06

a pretty pretty good treat. What

1:05:08

is reverse searing mean? You do

1:05:10

it backwards. You see

1:05:12

I got the head. It's generally

1:05:14

reserved for like big chunks of

1:05:16

meat that, you know, are harder

1:05:18

to grill perfectly. So you cook

1:05:20

it at a lower temperature to

1:05:22

the internal temperature that you want.

1:05:25

So you take this big slab

1:05:27

of, you know, brontosaurus burger like

1:05:29

they have from Fred Flintstone. Yeah.

1:05:31

And you cook it at 250

1:05:33

degrees for three hours until it's

1:05:35

120. And then you

1:05:37

put it on the grill as opposed

1:05:39

to grilling it trying to get it

1:05:41

to 125. Gotcha. And the grill is

1:05:43

just as hot as you can get

1:05:45

it. Yeah. Yeah. Locking in all the

1:05:48

flavor. Well,

1:05:51

that was great. Thanks for bringing that

1:05:53

up, Joe. Yeah, I had a protein

1:05:55

drink and a yogurt this morning. So

1:05:57

now I'm starving and I can't do

1:05:59

anything about it. Want a

1:06:01

bite? Oh my goodness. He's

1:06:03

just he just sits here and eats in

1:06:05

front of us. chiseling this bad boy

1:06:07

down while you guys tell your fun stories

1:06:09

about eating the heads off snappers. blowing

1:06:12

up grills.