0:00

Podcast One presents the Steve Austin show

0:03

classics. Just fired back at the microphones containing

0:05

my conversation with Paul Hammond. We sat there

0:07

after I pushed the stop button, we talked

0:09

for an hour and a half, two hours

0:11

about stuff that is better left between two

0:13

guys without a microphone running. Well, if I'd

0:16

like to stay employed on this basis at

0:18

the moment, I think we should keep all

0:20

that off the record. But so anyway, I

0:22

would like to... When I'm rolling to Russell

0:24

Major's, like I've said before, I always do

0:26

my research. Didn't get a chance to do

0:28

any research. We called the Singing Ring, but

0:31

I forgot to mention your social media account,

0:33

Haman Hustle, on Twitter. Yes. But now let's

0:35

talk about Haman hustle.com. Is that it? Yes.

0:37

Okay, tell me a little bit about the

0:39

website because I was talking to you about

0:41

a couple years ago. I was going to

0:43

start a website and I've been a hard

0:45

time coming up with content and all this

0:47

stuff and you started going into techno mode

0:49

on me. So tell me a little bit

0:51

about the the Heyman Hustle website and what's

0:53

all about? Well, the Heyman Hustle website started

0:55

actually as a video show that we were

0:57

doing for the UK Sun because the Murdoch

0:59

family, you know, Fox, was getting into the

1:01

digital world. They wanted to do

1:03

broadband television television television, which, by

1:06

the way, by the way, by

1:08

the way, by the W. regular

1:10

streaming programming on a digital network

1:12

and they were getting that in

1:15

a thing called Sun TV and

1:17

they wanted a flagship program for

1:19

Sun TV and we sold them

1:21

on the concept of a weekly

1:24

celebrity interview v log with Paul

1:26

Hayman interviewing Ice-T and Coco or

1:28

James Lipton or Jesse Ventura or

1:30

whomever my guest may be. And so

1:33

from that, we started doing also digital

1:35

post-production. So the next thing I know,

1:37

my partner and I have a digital

1:39

post-production house in New York City and

1:41

the end of the basement. No, actually,

1:44

actually we're on the fourth floor. But

1:46

nothing wrong if we were to move

1:48

it to the basement and if I

1:50

can afford a big enough house to

1:52

where my kids won't bother me in

1:54

the basement or join me and learn

1:57

how to edit, that's where we'll put

1:59

the studio. We open up a digital

2:01

production house in New York City and

2:03

that starts doing really, really well because

2:05

we're the first really high quality, high

2:07

definition digital production service in New York

2:09

City and of course my love is

2:12

always in promoting advertising, marketing, branding. So

2:15

we expanded that when we took

2:17

the name The Heyman Hustle and

2:19

then launched Heyman Hustle.com and started

2:21

feeding content in our video series

2:23

and pictures from MMA and WWE

2:26

and kind of taking the maximum

2:28

route of also doing hot girls.

2:30

So you know the old theory,

2:32

what do guys like sex and

2:34

sports, give them sex, give them

2:36

sports, a guy will watch, a

2:38

guy will tune in, it'll be

2:41

destination viewership, destination website. You could

2:43

have cyber beer pour out of

2:45

Heyman Hustle, you would have all

2:47

the bases covered, I agree with

2:49

the sex and sports. Could we

2:51

have as the guy that's the

2:53

face of that company, Stone Cold

2:55

Steve Austin, there you go. So

2:58

keep going. Business together already. So

3:00

now we take The Heyman Hustle

3:02

and we start doing video

3:04

game campaigns on the website. Click

3:06

here to get to this

3:08

site, the next five people that

3:10

email us the right answer

3:12

to this question win the video

3:14

game and we're doing so

3:16

well in video game promotion that

3:18

now we decide, hey, why

3:21

not open up a social media/digital

3:23

advertising marketing and branding firm.

3:25

So we open up what we

3:27

call the Looking for Larry

3:29

agency and the face of the company,

3:31

the centerpiece of our company is our

3:33

website, The Heyman Hustle website. So I

3:35

always go to The Heyman Hustle website,

3:37

check it out, lots of good looking

3:39

women and I have time on your

3:41

time. You

3:44

said it, it's a place where guys would

3:46

go. So and then have time on

3:48

your timeline, I mean you have just all

3:50

these gorgeous models on there. Well, what

3:52

happened was, it's a very funny story. We

3:55

were publishing a

3:57

bunch of

3:59

international models who are looking

4:02

for a big break from

4:04

Australia from New Zealand from

4:06

South Africa and a very

4:08

famous rock and roll designer from

4:11

the United States tweeted one day

4:13

does anybody have a temporary tattoo

4:16

I'd like to put the Haman

4:18

Hustle logo on my ass and

4:20

wear a thong to the beach

4:23

and as a joke I cut

4:25

and paste it and wrote hashtag

4:28

Hustle Booty Temptats. And

4:30

in five minutes it was

4:32

trending worldwide. And I said,

4:34

man, what do we stumble on

4:36

here? Now there was a

4:38

Playboy cybergirl, this beautiful blonde

4:41

girl from Florida named Kerry

4:43

Nautique, and she was getting

4:45

this huge push by Playboy.

4:47

And she writes, send me

4:49

to one for each butt

4:52

cheek. And she writes, hustle booty

4:54

tempets. And it goes viral. It

4:56

starts trending worldwide. Now this very

4:59

famous reality star who's a sizzling

5:01

hot model over in the UK.

5:03

She's a Greek Irish girl named

5:06

Georgia Salpa and she is the

5:08

page three girl of the year.

5:10

She is on the cover of

5:13

all the tabloids in the UK.

5:15

She's the Kim Kardashian of the

5:17

moment and she writes, I'd

5:20

love to wear So now

5:22

these women are sending in

5:24

pictures and it can even

5:26

be an upper body picture.

5:28

But the tagline for a

5:30

hot looking woman in a

5:32

bikini pick or a lingerie

5:34

pick or whatever, just a

5:37

hot pick of a hot

5:39

woman becomes hustle booty temptats.

5:41

This past year. We did the Hustle

5:43

Booty Temptets top 25 and we did

5:45

it as a viral marketing campaign because

5:47

now you get the models to promote

5:50

Hey go to the Hayman hustle site

5:52

and vote for me Yeah sends me

5:54

the traffic raises my advertising rates makes

5:56

them more famous and we did a

5:58

we did such a big viral campaign,

6:00

we did bigger numbers than the

6:03

maximum 100 on a global basis.

6:05

Really? Yeah. So it just became

6:07

this phenomenon that kind of just took

6:09

on a life of its own. What

6:11

if I put on a hustle booty

6:13

tip-tat and sent in a picture? Would

6:15

I make the top 25? I think

6:17

just because you're stoned, Steve Austin, if

6:19

you put it on the top of

6:21

your head, we'd have to pay you

6:23

for the advertising space. You're doing this,

6:26

all this, and you got you started

6:28

as a photographer, into the wrestling business,

6:30

one of the greatest managers of all time.

6:32

So, did you go to college? Yes.

6:34

I got an associate's degree in New

6:36

York from SUNY Purchase, because I studied

6:38

political science, and I also double majored

6:40

in communication, because I was doing, and

6:42

I got credit, and I got credit.

6:44

That was a funny thing. I got

6:46

credit for doing college radio. So

6:48

I did college radio at SUNY

6:51

Purchase and Westchester Community College at

6:53

the same time while I was

6:55

editing three wrestling magazines and traveling

6:57

and doing the play-by-play on the

7:00

independence and doing the publicity and

7:02

promotions at Studio 54. Here's a

7:04

real stupid question, but when you're

7:06

majoring in communications, what

7:09

do they teach you? Is it all... I hope

7:11

you don't mind a stupid answer to the stupid

7:13

question? I did radio. No, no,

7:15

but is there techniques? I mean,

7:17

like, what do you know? No,

7:20

I just did college radio and

7:22

got credit and communications. Yeah, it

7:24

was like, you know, I got

7:27

speech class after speech class and

7:29

how to speak clearly and try

7:31

to get. I learned how to

7:33

speak clearly and try to. I

7:35

learned how to speak from watching

7:38

my father perform in front of

7:40

a jury all those years. Yeah.

7:42

That was it. And I think it's

7:44

the strongest thing that we do. We do

7:46

a think tank, as often as we can.

7:48

It used to be when I wasn't on

7:50

the road, when I wasn't back in W&D,

7:52

it was probably every month. And now it's

7:54

about every other month, every six weeks or

7:57

so. We do a think tank, and that

7:59

any kid from... New York, New Jersey, Connecticut,

8:01

Pennsylvania, even Massachusetts, who goes to college. And

8:03

if you go to college and you take

8:05

Mass Transit, take a municipal transfer, oh my

8:08

God, I can't believe it, I can't believe

8:10

it, I can't believe it, I can't believe

8:12

it, I can't believe it, I think a

8:15

buses, Mass Transit, Mass Transit, and you take

8:17

it to our office, we will cover. the

8:19

cost because it's an expensive now if you

8:21

take your own limo you drive your own

8:24

car you take a run a car you

8:26

take a cab you're on your own right

8:28

but but but but if you take

8:30

a bus or a subway and you

8:32

come to our office will reimburse you

8:35

the cost of that mass transit and

8:37

we also feed them and we have

8:39

all these to participate in your think

8:41

tank yes So Jesus, I mean, how

8:43

many people getting in a think tank?

8:45

75, 150. So where are you holding

8:47

this? I mean, in our office, we

8:50

have the whole fourth floor. Okay. We

8:52

have a pretty nice big office and

8:54

grammacy. And, um, and we cater it,

8:56

you know, pizza, the local Korean

8:58

barbecue place, you know, hamburgers, whatever

9:00

it is. And we talk about.

9:03

everything with these college kids. You

9:05

have to be assertive enough or

9:07

aggressive enough or ambitious enough to

9:09

come see us to begin with.

9:11

So here you have these assertive

9:14

ambitious college kids from NYU, Columbia,

9:16

Hofstra. You know, we've had kids

9:18

come down from, you know, from

9:20

Yale, from Connecticut. Harvard and

9:22

you know community colleges too I

9:24

don't care we're not snobs about

9:27

this as long as long as

9:29

you're in college and you take

9:31

mass transportation to our office where

9:33

we reimburse you and if you

9:35

don't take mass transportation you're welcome

9:37

to come in will still feed you and

9:39

we talk about everything so but it's

9:42

a think tank to generate ideas to

9:44

do anything anything anything but then one

9:46

okay someone comes down from yeah they

9:48

come up with a big idea It's

9:50

your property, you own it? We discuss

9:52

it with them. If they come up

9:54

with a big idea, we immediately, we

9:56

will sign them to a job. And

9:58

we will develop their... concept or we

10:00

don't just steal these kids concepts right number

10:03

one despite the character I play on TV

10:05

I do have some sort of ethics number

10:07

two my partner is so freaking ethical he

10:09

drives me crazy number three who needs to

10:11

be sued right so and plus if a

10:14

kid comes up with the next big idea

10:16

I want that kid in my fold for

10:18

the next ten years right why would I

10:20

want to cast out the next Steve Jobs

10:23

of the next Bill Gates why would I

10:25

want to be the guy that gave him

10:27

his biggest break I gave you a small

10:29

break when you were already known and to

10:31

this day, look how nice you are to

10:34

me. I gave Sam Ponca break when he

10:36

first came to W.E. and when I came

10:38

back and I had no one to work

10:40

with after Brock took a hiatus, look at

10:42

the work we got to do together. I

10:45

gave Brock a break and he was in

10:47

the same company as I was. It was

10:49

my job to give breaks to people, but

10:51

I gave Brock a little bit more of

10:54

a break than the other producers or the

10:56

writers would do and I've been. want that

10:58

for the next Steve Jobs and the next

11:00

Bill Gates or the next Eric Schmidt or

11:02

whoever the next, the next, the next, Zuckerman,

11:05

whatever, Mark Zuckerman, of course I would. So

11:07

when these kids come in, we talk about

11:09

sports, we talk about women, we talk about

11:11

technology, we talk about politics, we talk about

11:13

music, I'm 48 years old. Where do I

11:16

get... a youthful idea. Well, you know, my

11:18

daughter is 11 and far hipper than I

11:20

am and my son is 9 and far

11:22

cooler than I will ever be. So I

11:25

get ideas from them, but how am I

11:27

going to tap into the 20 year olds?

11:29

You know, where is the future? You know,

11:31

hey, is the blackberry or the iPhone going

11:33

to make it? Is it, you know, is

11:36

our... podcast the future or YouTube videos the

11:38

future. Exactly which way would you position it?

11:40

What's the buzzword that makes people understand I'm

11:42

a 48 year old geyser and what's the

11:45

word that makes them think, you know, man,

11:47

this dude has his finger on the pulse?

11:49

And that's what I want from these kids

11:51

because I listen to them talking, I go,

11:53

okay, that's how I can sound cool, right?

11:56

Yeah, man, say this. word and

11:58

don't think you're with

12:00

it. Oh cool okay.

12:03

So how much of your time does this

12:05

take with your schedule been on a road?

12:07

Again we only get to do it now

12:09

about every six weeks. That's the thing Tank.

12:11

I'm talking about you know just your involvement

12:13

doing your thing with Heyman Hussle. Oh Heyman

12:15

Hussle is a daily enterprise for me. I

12:17

mean we keep that website flowing as much

12:19

as we can with as much content as

12:22

we can. I wish I had time for

12:24

far more content but I make sure that

12:26

everything goes on that site has a purpose

12:28

and a strategy and that's to drive people

12:30

to be interactive with us on the

12:32

Twitter or on Facebook, on the Twitter.

12:34

See that? That's right there. That's a

12:36

no -no on Twitter. You know it's like

12:38

when when Twitter first came out I

12:40

sat down I kept telling my guy

12:42

listen post this on Twitter and finally

12:44

one of these kids pulled me aside

12:46

went you know post things on

12:48

Twitter you tweet them. I was

12:50

like yeah well that's what I

12:53

meant you you tweet that on Twitter

12:55

you know When did you start

12:57

your Twitter account? Steve I really

12:59

don't know. But did you jump on it when

13:01

soon as it came out? Yes. Oh you did? Oh

13:03

right away. For me I was like

13:05

I saw it going down and I

13:07

was sitting here's this new social media thing

13:09

called Twitter and when you send a

13:11

message it's called a tweet and I thought

13:13

how ridiculous is this? It's a tweet

13:15

really and I'm stone cold. Steve Ball's the

13:17

big badass tough guy a couple years

13:19

goes by. At some point I've got to

13:21

jump in you know I'm old school

13:23

stuck in the mud so I you on

13:25

my Twitter account Steve Austin BSR talking

13:28

to Heyman Hussle here but so now I

13:30

really enjoy it and but I never

13:32

knew it would evolve into what it's evolved

13:34

into. It's a really good chance to

13:36

you know communicate for me at a grassroots

13:38

level with my fan base. It's a text

13:40

message that you're sending out to the entire

13:42

world. Right. And that's how

13:44

I look at it you know it's a

13:46

I mean I got it because I had

13:48

a bunch of kids around me who were

13:50

doing it from its very infancy you know

13:52

I mean you think about this you think

13:54

about this again we were talking about earlier

13:57

just how fast technology moves and different platforms

13:59

and and you know the choke points or

14:01

content and financing and

14:03

distribution. Think about

14:05

this. There was no YouTube

14:07

before 2005. Really? Yeah. See, do

14:10

you even remember a day

14:12

where YouTube wasn't around? Not

14:14

really it's like it's like it's

14:16

like this seems like it's been here

14:18

forever of course you know and again

14:20

we come from an age where you

14:22

know people would say hey fax it

14:25

to me right I don't know anybody

14:27

who faxes anymore everything is email or

14:29

you know I'll text it over to

14:31

you know I'll text it over to

14:33

you know what do people do before

14:35

faxing what do people do before cell

14:37

phones I mean I hate to admit

14:39

it because I'm an old man now

14:42

but I actually remember the day And

14:44

a lady told me, she goes, I

14:46

can scan it to you, I can

14:48

fax it to you. So I give

14:50

out my fax number. And she calls

14:53

back a couple of hours later. She

14:55

goes, I've been having a hard time

14:57

getting this fax through to you. So

15:00

I told my wife, I said, I

15:02

give out the fax number, I said,

15:04

I can't get this fax number. I

15:06

said, you can't get this fax. I

15:09

said, you can't get this fax. I

15:11

said, you can't. So I didn't know.

15:13

I still have a hard line just

15:15

for the hell of it. Well, my

15:18

kids and I live in, my dad

15:20

died last June, so we've taken

15:22

over my parents' house. So I

15:24

still have his old office line

15:26

in the house, but nobody calls

15:29

it. Nobody use it. I think

15:31

the only person that calls it

15:33

sometimes is I call it when

15:35

everybody's cell phone in the house

15:37

is done. Because, you know, cell

15:40

phones are not just for communication

15:42

anymore. It's for angry birds, it's

15:44

for, it's a camera, it's a

15:46

video camera, it's a playback machine,

15:48

it's, you know, it's everything, you know,

15:51

cell phones are not just cell phones,

15:53

so when they burn out their cell

15:55

phones, I call on that one line,

15:57

and then usually nobody answers and five

15:59

minutes. later they call me back on their

16:01

cell phones yes I use a hard line just

16:03

I never answer that phone I wonder when someone

16:05

asked my phone number I give out my

16:08

cell phone number to the select few

16:10

they give it out to us it

16:12

is my lifeline so yeah I have

16:14

a hard line but I don't answer

16:16

it's connected to our front gate if

16:18

someone's standing out there to push the

16:20

button then that phone rings I know

16:22

it's the UPS guy and he's got

16:24

a delivery So, hey, is that cell

16:26

phone number just like you? Is that

16:28

that, uh, two, eight, one, three? Give

16:30

out my info here. You're listening to

16:32

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16:34

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17:13

So do you go down

17:15

to the office of the Haman House?

17:17

We'll just sit there and... I... You see

17:20

these two phones? And for those who,

17:22

obviously, this is not a video show.

17:24

At least not yet. No. The one

17:26

on... You got an iPhone and you

17:28

get the... You have the iPhone and

17:31

the Blackburn. Of course. Which one you

17:33

like better? Well, if I'm talking, I

17:35

like the iPhone, and if I'm texting

17:37

because my fingers are fat, I like

17:39

the Blackberry. I like the Blackberry. So

17:42

one is for talking and one

17:44

is for texting. So what about

17:46

the new Samsung Galaxy G4, whatever

17:48

the hell it is? I'm afraid

17:50

to because then I'll have three

17:53

phones. Right. So right now I'm just

17:55

stuck with two. I thought the

17:57

Blackberries were done. You know what? I hope

17:59

that... But they're not because I

18:01

really enjoy texting on them. I

18:03

really don't like texting on the

18:06

iPhone. Now, if the Sony... And

18:08

also I kind of have a

18:10

beef with this galaxy thing because

18:12

their advertising campaign is the next

18:14

big thing. And I would like

18:16

a royalty check for this campaign.

18:18

Brock Lester was the next big

18:20

thing. Yes, he was and I

18:23

would actually like to employ Brock

18:25

to do the collections on that

18:27

royalty for me. Just walk in

18:29

that office with Brock. I hate to

18:31

be to some, but just working to Sam

18:33

when Brock Lesner comes up. Did you ever

18:35

see the movie? It's a Clint Eastwood

18:38

movie. Is it Hamburger Hill or something?

18:40

Heartbreak Ridge. When they said in the

18:42

Swede? The Swede. I mean, you know

18:44

when Brock was in college they used

18:46

to call him the Swede. Yeah. You

18:48

know, because that guy looks so much

18:51

like Brock. Yeah. I just want to

18:53

send him into Samsung going, I'm going

18:55

to rip off your head and piss

18:57

down your neck. It just let it

18:59

be Brock Lesnar and you guys always

19:01

are royalty. Oh Jesus. I remember

19:04

going back down in a road when,

19:06

you know, if you needed to make

19:08

a phone call, you stopped at a

19:10

truck stop at Denny's, an IHOP, a

19:12

Waffle House, whatever. And then, you know,

19:14

if he's making a little bit more

19:16

money, you might get a pager, a

19:18

beeper. And then all of a sudden,

19:20

you know, cell phones, of course, you

19:22

had the gigantic mechanical cell phone thing,

19:24

but technologies come along away. And you've

19:27

written a dear friend because I think

19:29

it sounds kind of arrogant kind of

19:31

arrogant. because he's one of the truly

19:34

most successful people in Hollywood. So it's not

19:36

like, you know, Jimmy Ivan walks around all

19:38

day saying, I wonder how my buddy Paul

19:40

Hayman's doing. Right. But he's been almost a

19:42

mentor in some ways. I'm honored to have

19:45

known him. And in ECW's dying day when

19:47

we needed just a little more financing to

19:49

make it a couple of weeks, just to

19:51

see if we could make it on a

19:53

couple of different deals, he gave us a

19:55

little bit of money. He bought in, even

19:57

though he knew it was a bad investment.

20:00

So to me, that makes him a dear friend. Anyway,

20:03

Jimmy is the chairman of Universal Music,

20:05

Geffen, A &M, and Interscope, which is an

20:07

interesting situation because Interscope was like ECW. It

20:09

was a small, independent business that changed

20:11

the scope of the industry. So he starts

20:14

up Interscope, he sells it to a

20:16

big corporation for let's say it's a million

20:18

dollars. They don't know what to do

20:20

with it. He buys it back for a

20:22

hundred thousand dollars. Then he sells it

20:24

to another big record label for two million

20:26

dollars. He buys it back because they

20:29

don't know what to do with it

20:31

for a hundred thousand dollars.

20:33

He bought and sold his

20:35

own label four or five

20:37

times, making millions along the

20:39

way. And finally, he merges

20:41

his independent label with the

20:44

biggest label in the world,

20:46

Universal Music. Jimmy

20:48

Iovine is 70 years old. And

20:51

since the day I've met

20:53

Jimmy Iovine, the one constant

20:55

in his approach is, I

20:58

don't market the music that I like.

21:00

I don't sell to myself. I sell

21:02

to the kids that have money in

21:04

their pocket that are gonna buy the

21:06

stuff that I put out. I

21:10

am definitely afraid of

21:12

being the old guy that talks

21:14

about the eight track cassette

21:16

or the fax machine or the

21:18

mimeograph or back in my

21:21

day because it's not my day.

21:23

I don't have to like

21:25

where the world progresses. I have

21:27

to keep up with it

21:29

because it's going to go forward

21:32

without me. And I don't want to

21:34

be that guy. I don't mind

21:36

being the old guy in the locker

21:38

room as long as I'm still

21:40

the guy that has the radical ideas

21:42

that can possibly change the industry.

21:44

The only difference is now I'm far

21:46

more diplomatic in my approach in

21:48

pitching it. But I still wanna be

21:50

the guy that stays one step

21:52

ahead of the curve and not the

21:54

guy that's trying to catch up.

21:56

So I hang around and I listen

21:58

to as many. Young bright people and

22:01

aggressive and assertive and progressive thinking people

22:03

as I can So that when they

22:05

come they go hey, man. Have you

22:07

tried this thing called YouTube? No, man.

22:09

What's YouTube? Oh, yeah, you load up

22:11

your own videos, you know and a

22:13

lot of people are pirating content on

22:15

there and just throwing stuff up I

22:18

watched Johnny Carson from from the 70s

22:20

and the 80s the other day and

22:22

I'm going into meetings going hey Vince

22:25

You Pluto

22:34

TV is the place for

22:36

movie fans like me and

22:38

TV fans like me They've

22:40

got something for everyone and

22:43

it's totally free You can

22:45

binge laugh out loud sitcoms

22:47

like Frasier and rewatch

22:49

cult classics like higher

22:51

learning Whether you're in the mood

22:53

to solve a little crime before

22:56

bedtime with NCIS or tracker

22:58

or curl up with a

23:00

surefire hit like Forrest gum

23:02

They never. when someone comes up

23:04

to me and he says hey, I'm sending a

23:06

text message out to the world It's called

23:08

Twitter The very first thing I'm doing is going

23:10

home to my kids going hey Any of

23:12

your classmates and kindergarten or first grade talking about

23:14

Twitter and as soon as I find out

23:16

that the kids are talking about it I want

23:18

to know as much about it as I

23:20

can I want to learn who's behind it I

23:23

want to learn the technology and the vocabulary

23:25

and the vernacular behind it So I want to

23:27

be ahead of everybody else because otherwise I'm

23:29

the old guy that fell behind

23:31

right don't to fall behind Speaking of

23:33

Jimmy I have been yes You mentioned

23:35

the chipped in a little bit of

23:37

a money to ECW back in a

23:39

day I always wondered Paul as long

23:41

as I've known you and very good

23:43

friend How and why the wheels fell

23:45

off of ECW because from my standpoint

23:47

and you know me dude I'm pretty

23:50

pretty damn good in 20 by 20

23:52

pretty good on a horn But you know

23:54

as far as the inner workings of how you

23:56

run a business or all that that wrestling stuff

23:58

the promotion stuff I don't know

24:00

where the shit are wanting my watch. How

24:02

and why did the wheels fall off? Because

24:05

from my standpoint, look at the merch, look

24:07

at the t-shirts, look at the energy of

24:09

the program. I thought you guys were printing

24:11

money. The highest grossing year ECW ever had

24:14

was the last full year that we

24:16

were in business 2000. We drew back-to-back

24:18

sellouts at the Hammerstein ballroom grossing well

24:20

over $100,000 a night. We sold 6,800

24:23

tickets. In Los Angeles, we were

24:25

regularly selling out in Detroit 4,000

24:27

tickets, regularly selling out in Chicago,

24:30

4,000, 5,000, 6,000 tickets, sold out

24:32

in, I can't pronounce the name

24:34

of the town, Masagua. It's right

24:37

outside of Toronto. Sold out there,

24:39

would regularly sell out the Bert

24:41

Flickinger Center in Buffalo, which was

24:44

4,000 seats. The highest grossing year

24:46

we ever had was 2,000. Entertainment

24:48

is a very funny commodity. And

24:51

as we've discussed before the choke

24:53

points in entertainment are content do

24:55

you have enough content you have

24:57

enough personalities to define choke point

24:59

Well, you know, it's funny. I've

25:01

been saying it's so long. I'm

25:03

trying to find a layman's term.

25:05

I know that this is the

25:07

show for the working man. So

25:09

how the work? Folks, he's not

25:11

calling us dumb. He's trying to

25:13

do this. No. No, at show

25:15

point. I'm trying to translate my

25:17

hoity-toity attitude with my insider technical,

25:19

with my insider technical terminology. Well,

25:21

thank you kind, sir. A choke

25:24

point is, where can the deal go

25:26

off the rails? Okay. Where can this

25:28

get choked out? Okay. What's your kill

25:30

zone? If you don't have enough talent,

25:32

you don't have enough content, you don't

25:34

have enough to fill that hour of

25:37

a program or two hours or three

25:39

hours of programming, whatever the case may

25:41

be, then you don't have content. So

25:43

you're in, you now are a content

25:46

provider. If you have no guest for

25:48

your podcast, you're going to sit here

25:50

and give a Wrestleania preview or a

25:53

post show wrap-up because you had no

25:55

one to talk to. You need constant

25:57

flow of new guests for your podcast.

26:00

because that's the content you were

26:02

providing. Okay. What are the other

26:04

two choke points? What are the

26:06

other two strangleholds? Where can it

26:08

go off the rails? If you

26:10

don't have this, there's no gas

26:12

to fill the engine. Well, there's

26:14

two things. One, financing. If you

26:16

can't afford the tape recorder, if

26:19

you can't afford the microphone, if

26:21

you can't afford to then take

26:23

this recording and digitalize it and

26:25

put it out on a platform,

26:27

then you don't have the money

26:29

with which to forward your vision

26:31

of a podcast. So when people

26:33

have a movie to do or

26:35

a TV show to do or

26:38

a wrestling promotion, if you don't

26:40

have financing, there's no promotion. The

26:42

other, again, choke point is... Distribution.

26:44

Now I can have $10 million

26:46

to produce a television show, but

26:48

if nobody will put it on

26:50

the air for me, I'm going

26:52

to lose that $10 million because

26:54

it won't air. And if it

26:57

doesn't air, how do I promote

26:59

my events? How do I promote

27:01

my pay-per views? Why would anybody

27:03

give me money for a license?

27:05

The video game companies won't give

27:07

me money. I have no way

27:09

to promote their product. Why would

27:11

anybody buy a t-shirt if they

27:13

don't know that the wrestler wears

27:16

a t-shirt? How many people would

27:18

have bought the Austin 316 t-shirt

27:20

if you were on local access

27:22

Cox cable Harrisburg Pennsylvania? You sure

27:24

wouldn't have any merch checks coming

27:26

from Kansas City, St. Louis, Chicago,

27:28

Detroit, Las Vegas, Reno, L.A., San

27:30

Diego, all around the world. You

27:32

made all that money in that

27:35

merch because Vince had distribution of

27:37

his television show to where people

27:39

saw you wear the Austin 316

27:41

shirt or the what shirt and

27:43

they said I want to buy

27:45

that too. What happened with ECW

27:47

was this. Whether the company was

27:49

run right or run wrong, whether

27:51

it was a good product or

27:54

a bad product, whether it had

27:56

its day or not had its

27:58

day, whether if If we had

28:00

survived long enough to get to

28:02

the next generation of stars, and

28:04

we would have had C.M. punk,

28:06

Daniel Bryan, Seth Rollins, Dean Ambrose,

28:08

all the kids that you see

28:10

coming up today or that you

28:13

have for the past few years,

28:15

those would have been our guys.

28:17

So what happened is that we

28:19

lost our distribution. We lost T&N,

28:21

which became Spike TV, because they

28:23

were owned by Viacom and they

28:25

cut that huge multi-million dollar deal

28:27

with Vince. We were going to

28:29

move then to USA Network.

28:31

The president of the network

28:34

Stephen Chow was hot to get

28:36

ECW to replace W-W-E then W-W-F

28:38

Barry Diller the chairman of the

28:41

board of USA Network back in

28:43

that in that era Made a

28:45

decision if I can't have the

28:47

number one program Which he did

28:50

clearly W-W-E then why would I

28:52

want the number two or number

28:54

three program? Can't be number one.

28:56

I'm going to change the image

28:59

of the station Turner, which had

29:01

a distribution channel for wrestling and

29:03

was going to dump W.C.W., had

29:05

such a bad taste in their

29:07

mouth from W.C.W. they wanted nothing

29:09

to do with wrestling. So I'm

29:12

out on that platform. The only

29:14

other big platform at the time

29:16

was going to be Fox. Arthur

29:18

Smith. who now has his own production

29:20

company called A. Smithco and I

29:22

worked with them to do some

29:24

of the U.S.C. countdown shows and

29:26

they did a lot of stuff

29:28

with 51 mines who produced your

29:30

show as well. Arthur Smith was

29:33

the head of Fox Sports at

29:35

the time and Arthur Smith had

29:37

the vision of doing an afternoon,

29:39

four o'clock in the afternoon, half

29:41

hour, every day, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday,

29:43

Wednesday, Thursday, Thursday. The economics

29:45

of doing that show. was so

29:47

not viable to stay on the

29:50

air that I knew we would

29:52

fold 12 weeks, 13 weeks, 14

29:54

weeks down the road if we

29:57

even attempted to do the strip

29:59

show. They would not give

30:01

us a slot on Fox that

30:04

I could play into, satisfy the

30:06

licenses, satisfy some advertisers, and keep

30:08

the company afloat. What had boiled

30:10

down to was, end of the

30:13

day, distribution. We had no distribution.

30:15

So it didn't matter if you

30:17

had a product or not, or

30:19

even if we had the financing,

30:22

which we didn't because the pay-perview

30:24

companies held back our money. When

30:26

we went into bankruptcy, this is

30:28

something that is a very funny,

30:31

well it's not a funny story,

30:33

it's kind of a sad story,

30:35

but when we went into bankruptcy,

30:37

we were owed $2.8 million by

30:40

the pay-per-view companies, and they wouldn't

30:42

even give us 10% of our

30:44

money, because they literally, and I'll

30:46

call him out on this, the

30:48

executive vice president of in-demand was

30:51

a guy the name of Dan

30:53

York, and Dan York said to

30:55

me, once you get distribution, will

30:57

give you your money. We owe

31:00

you $2.8 million. But if you

31:02

don't get distribution, we know you're

31:04

going down. And it's going to

31:06

be cheaper for us to pay

31:09

pennies on the dollar to a

31:11

bankruptcy trustee than to just give

31:13

you money now and bet that

31:15

you'll be around in six months.

31:18

Wow. And the day that conversation

31:20

happened, which was when Mindy Herman

31:22

was going to leave in demand

31:24

to go back to running the

31:27

E network, the E network, So

31:29

she couldn't help us and Brian

31:31

Rico who was a huge ally

31:33

of ours Was overpowered by Dan

31:36

York because Dan York was the

31:38

one guy that outright Brian Rico

31:40

So no one could stop this

31:42

tyrant and he had just done

31:45

the same thing to Bob Arum

31:47

But Bob Arum had enough finances

31:49

to take them to federal court

31:51

and sue them and get his

31:54

money and then settle on a

31:56

new distribution deal for pay-per-view. Had

31:58

we gotten enough distribution? would have

32:00

stayed in business and redefined the

32:03

company. The fact that we

32:05

couldn't get distribution makes me

32:07

the schmuck, the bad businessman

32:09

that everybody points to to

32:11

this day, even though if you consider

32:14

this, even though we were owed

32:16

$2.8 million, the total debt of

32:18

the company was $7 million, four of

32:20

which was my family's investment in the

32:22

business, and then again if we

32:25

had gotten that $2.8, that could

32:27

have carried us for years. Still,

32:29

the company went down $7 million

32:32

in the hole, and that was the end.

32:34

We were bankrupt. T&A has

32:36

lost that much in a month,

32:38

many, many times. That company has

32:40

to be, and I don't know

32:42

their finances today, but when I

32:44

was speaking to them a couple

32:46

of years ago, about coming in

32:48

to be the president of the

32:50

company, I know that there were

32:52

people in that company telling me

32:54

they were 70, 80, close to

32:57

90 million dollars in debt. which

32:59

means they had to have months

33:01

where they lost. $7 million. Took

33:03

us seven years to lose seven

33:05

million and we still had three

33:08

million. Hey, it's Adam Kroll from

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34:10

again, now that we understand the word

34:12

choke point, we know that content's a

34:14

choke point. If you have content, you're

34:16

fine. We had the content. So the

34:18

two choke points become financing and distribution.

34:20

If we had the distribution, we could

34:22

have had the financing, but once you

34:24

didn't have that distribution, you're

34:26

out of business. And then no money to

34:29

go back and sue the cap for

34:31

the 2 .8 could never have afforded the

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35:43

What kind of play we've got on this part?

35:45

Because to me as a man, a dirtbag

35:47

play. As a business strategist, smart

35:49

play for him. I mean, it

35:51

was a weasel move. If you're

35:53

some, it's money, you pay the

35:55

money. Oh, it was a scumbag. I mean, I

35:57

hate the guy to this day, I mean, you know, and

35:59

I mean. I'm so then you can understand

36:01

why I did it. No. Actually,

36:03

I think it was I also

36:06

think it was a bad business

36:08

move because had he kept another

36:10

promotion involved, he would have had

36:12

enough. See, that's why once we

36:14

went out of business, so many

36:16

other promotions found it easy to

36:18

get on to in demand because

36:20

they were dying for. content. They

36:22

needed new content providers and they

36:24

were a distribution channel of pay-per-view.

36:26

Had they kept us alive with

36:28

the money that they owed us,

36:30

then nobody could have held them

36:32

up. They would have retained more

36:34

leverage than they had with Vince

36:36

McMahon. They would not be dictated

36:38

to. They would also retain more

36:40

leverage when UFC came aboard. where

36:42

they were seeking out boxing promotions

36:44

because we were giving them a

36:46

steady flux of income. We did

36:48

three paper views our first year,

36:51

four hour second, six hour third,

36:53

and they ordered seven for the

36:55

year that we went out of

36:57

business. And they probably would have

36:59

bumped us up to 10 or

37:01

12. Once we went out of

37:03

business, it literally set a shockwave

37:05

through them because W.C.W. went out

37:07

of business at the very same

37:09

time, so now they were starving

37:11

for content to fill all these

37:13

pay-per-view days. I think it was

37:15

a dumb move on his part

37:17

too, because why wouldn't you keep

37:19

that revenue source alive? Right. We

37:21

would have certainly drawn them more

37:23

than three million dollars in the

37:25

year 2001, based on the brand

37:27

name of E. We could have

37:29

at least had the money to,

37:31

see I couldn't do the Fox

37:33

SportsNet deal because I didn't have

37:36

the money to come out of

37:38

the gate with it, to then

37:40

demonstrate to end demand I had

37:42

a viable distribution channel. Had they

37:44

given us the money, I could

37:46

have afforded the strip show or

37:48

could have at least done the

37:50

strip show long enough to say,

37:52

hey why not? put us on

37:54

FX? Why not put us on

37:56

Fox? Could you give us a

37:58

bigger distribution here at nighttime and

38:00

on a better time slot and

38:02

more than 30 minutes? Could we

38:04

do something other than an afternoon

38:06

strip? I would have had options.

38:08

I could have had options. I

38:10

could have maybe gone into this

38:12

indication back into this indication business.

38:14

I would have had far more

38:16

options. I didn't have the financing

38:18

because we were out of money

38:21

and were owed 2.8 million dollars

38:23

and every time we put on

38:25

a pay-50 thousand dollars in production

38:27

costs to have a lot of

38:29

money. satellite feeds when the door shut

38:31

ECW is no more you went then to

38:33

WWF at the time right immediately

38:35

okay so while I was filing

38:37

for bankruptcy yes so while all

38:39

this process is going on and

38:41

you know a couple of boys

38:43

probably missing paychecks but just just

38:45

how did you deconstruct everything and

38:47

returned just a normal life and get

38:49

rid of all the headaches that were,

38:51

you know, throughout, you know, everything that

38:53

you'd built up. Well, it's kind of

38:56

like I jumped from the frying pan

38:58

into the fire because I immediately went

39:00

from ECW onto the writing staff at

39:02

W. And that was a full-time 24

39:04

70 as well, especially with Vince now

39:06

looking for new ideas, looking for something

39:08

different, looking for someone that had a

39:10

different voice than he had and offering

39:12

the contrarian opinion, which when I first

39:14

came aboard, that was my job. My

39:17

job was to offer the contrarian opinion

39:19

to what their process had been,

39:21

which is why when he split

39:23

the writing teams in 2002, he

39:25

assigned Brian Goertz to writing Raw

39:27

and assigned me to writing Smackdown

39:30

and said, do something different with

39:32

that show, so it doesn't look

39:34

like raw. So I never really had

39:36

a break. I never had a chance

39:38

to decompress. I never I never had

39:40

a chance to go through withdrawal from

39:43

my own company Because I went from

39:45

my own company straight into being a

39:47

Bombastic member of this writing team while

39:49

also immediately I was and I never

39:52

intended to be on the air either

39:54

I part of you know, again, here's

39:56

the funny thing about this company. You

39:58

know this as well anybody. You always

40:01

end up doing the one thing that

40:03

you never envision that you would do.

40:05

When I cut my deal to come aboard

40:07

the writing team in WWE, Vince says,

40:09

I want to know what your parameters are,

40:11

I want to know what limitations you

40:13

have. And I says, as a writer, as

40:15

a director, as a producer, you know, I

40:18

have no limitations. I can take this

40:20

as far as you will allow me to

40:22

take. If your offer here is opportunity,

40:24

you have someone that is ambitious enough to

40:26

take as much opportunity as you're going

40:28

to offer me. The only thing I don't

40:31

want to be on the air again. done being

40:33

on the air. God damn, pal, you don't have

40:35

anything to worry about. We're fine with that. If

40:37

you don't want to be on the air, you'll

40:39

never be on the air. And a couple weeks

40:41

later, and I'm getting all the bankruptcy papers ready,

40:43

I'm sitting at home and all of

40:46

a sudden my phone starts ringing

40:48

and everybody's saying, hey man, Jerry

40:50

Waller just walked out because they

40:52

fired his wife and I'm thinking...

40:54

Oh man, there's no way they're

40:56

going to ask, no, there's no

40:58

way they're going to ask me

41:00

to do that. Vince told me

41:02

I'll never have to be on

41:04

the air. And of course, you

41:06

know, by that Wednesday, J.R. is

41:08

going to be going, I haven't

41:10

heard your name yet, but you

41:12

know, they asked me, I just want

41:14

to tell you, I thought you know, Oklahoma

41:17

boy, smart ass New York Jew, I'm going,

41:19

I'm a... book or I'm a next thing

41:21

you know you know that Thursday I got

41:23

a call hey pal need you to step

41:26

up for something here you know did you

41:28

hear about the king yeah I kind of

41:30

heard that you know I'm thinking okay he's

41:32

gonna ask me to do one week and

41:34

he goes need you to sit down next

41:37

to JR and carry Monday night raw for

41:39

me it's it's it's it's really what the

41:41

company needs you to do the most and

41:43

I just I know it's not what we

41:46

talked about at first but what the company

41:48

needs you to do is what I need

41:50

you to do. What am I going

41:52

to say? My company is folding. I'm

41:54

coming aboard on this brand new job

41:56

for a guy I've known since I

41:58

was 14 years old. and who I've

42:01

never worked for in the past

42:03

and the only dealings I've done

42:05

with him since I broke into

42:07

the business has been on an

42:09

owner-to-owner basis where you know where

42:11

I mean I don't mean that

42:13

we're peers in terms of the

42:15

scope of our company right he was

42:17

an owner of a company and I

42:19

was an owner of a company right

42:21

so he did what was best for

42:23

ECW and in that way we were

42:26

peers and now I'm his employee

42:28

And what am I going to

42:30

say? No, no, no, no, no.

42:32

You told me I don't have

42:34

to go on the air. And

42:36

it's not like I was bad

42:38

at the job. I just really

42:41

never wanted to do it. So

42:43

I'm sitting there saying, well, you

42:45

know what, they haven't had a

42:47

new host of Monday Night Raw

42:49

since, what, years? It's 95 or

42:51

93, and you know, and I

42:53

do know how to broadcast with

42:56

JR. So whatever happened with

42:58

the rest of the ECW thing? How did

43:00

you get all that solved? I

43:02

filed for bankruptcy and I also

43:04

had to file for personal bankruptcy

43:06

because I never took a paycheck

43:09

from ECW. I put my own money

43:11

in. I survived in the 1990s

43:13

on my lawsuit money from W.C.W.

43:15

and I was really good in

43:18

the stock market. I had a

43:20

lot of big years in the

43:22

stock market. And that's how I

43:25

survived. I never took a paycheck

43:27

from my own company. Again, I

43:29

drank the Kool-Aid. It didn't become

43:31

a business enterprise. It became a

43:34

cause. So once we filed for bankruptcy,

43:36

it was a matter of Vince buying

43:38

the assets at when the time was

43:40

right and having to deal with all

43:42

the people that would file a claim

43:44

in a UCC one filing and a

43:47

claim entertainment asserting their 15% ownership and

43:49

and these people claiming well, you know,

43:51

where we own the footage because we're

43:53

owed money. So once all the lawyers

43:55

got involved and it took a couple

43:58

of years to settle once that got

44:00

settled Vince ended up owning

44:02

everything. So you throw out all

44:04

those legal terms just now and now

44:06

you're probably an expert at

44:08

it but at the at that

44:10

time I mean you're like Jesus

44:13

Christ I mean what the fuck

44:15

is well everybody's gonna have you

44:17

know when when the ship goes

44:19

down everybody has a claim everybody

44:21

has a claim and I'm not

44:23

saying that that their claim is

44:26

is not a righteous claim a

44:28

claim entertainment the video game game

44:30

company owned 15% of the the

44:32

intellectual property rights and the footage

44:34

from all the TV shows should

44:36

revert to us because we are minority

44:38

owners. At the same time... and this

44:41

was obviously used against them, they owed

44:43

the company, which we didn't know, it

44:45

was found out in the bankruptcy proceedings,

44:47

they actually owed us a lot of

44:49

money and royalties that they hadn't given

44:51

us. So that kind of negated their

44:53

claim and then they went into their

44:55

own bankruptcy, so they kind of ended

44:57

up being out of the picture. But

44:59

then, you have everybody else that's filing,

45:01

oh, I'm owed money for this, or

45:03

I'm owed money for that, or I

45:05

was owed money on this royalty, or

45:07

I'm owed money for these paper views,

45:09

and you have to sit through. and

45:12

the trustee was so overwhelmed by the

45:14

enormity of the claims not only against

45:16

us, but to sit there and then

45:18

say, well, what are the assets of

45:20

the company? Well, the assets of the

45:22

company include the outstanding invoices that we

45:24

have out. What outstanding invoices of that?

45:26

And they think we're going to say,

45:28

well, we're all 50 grand for this

45:31

box office and we didn't get our

45:33

t-shirt money from this distributor. Oh, we're

45:35

a 2.8 million dollars from the pay-perview

45:37

company. God, but we got to have a

45:39

lawsuit against them. Yeah, go right ahead. I

45:41

think you want to. And get that guy,

45:44

Dan York, while you're at it. Get that

45:46

guy in a deposition. And let me attend

45:48

it on that day. But that's not what

45:51

was best for the purchaser of the

45:53

assets, which was the publicly traded stock

45:55

W-W-E, because at the end of the

45:57

day, what they wanted to do as

45:59

a company. was they wanted to

46:01

acquire the assets of ECW and

46:03

exploit the tape library if

46:06

not the intellectual property of

46:08

being able to actually put

46:10

on an ECW program. And

46:12

there you have it. And that's what

46:15

happened. So finally, at the end

46:17

of 2004, the bankruptcy settled to

46:19

where W.W.E. purchased the assets of

46:21

ECW and released the rise and

46:23

fall of ECW videotape, you know,

46:25

and again, see again, we've talked

46:27

about technology, nobody does videotapes anymore,

46:29

which is why you know, and

46:31

they finally ran out of interesting

46:33

people to interview for their own

46:35

documentaries. So I'll call it a

46:37

documentary, you know, they so called

46:39

a DVD. But within a year...

46:41

There'll be no more DVDs, it'll

46:43

just be Blu-ray, and a year from

46:45

that, there'll be no more blue rays,

46:47

it'll be something else. So I refuse

46:50

to call a Hayman DVD, it's the

46:52

Hayman documentary. But back then, it was

46:54

the ECW documentary, the rise and fall

46:56

of ECW, and they probably thought, you

46:58

know what, at least we'll make a

47:00

few dollars back, maybe we'll cover our

47:02

costs for the lawyers for the bankruptcy

47:04

and acquiring the assets. And lo and

47:06

lo and behold, lo and behold, it

47:08

became the biggest selling. DVD videotape, whatever

47:10

you call it, in WWE history. It

47:12

caught them so off guard, it sold

47:14

out everywhere to where no

47:16

stores could carry it, Best

47:19

Buy and PC Richards and

47:21

Kmart and whatever else was

47:23

a tower records, whatever was

47:25

around back then, because those

47:28

distribution channels have changed as

47:30

well. Everybody sold out on it.

47:32

So but a time it was done,

47:34

it sold like a half. million units

47:36

and this was the biggest thing that

47:38

had ever hit the video business in

47:40

W.W.E. So at the time, Vince says,

47:42

man, what are we going to do?

47:44

And it was actually Rob Van Dam

47:46

that said, hey man, you know, before

47:49

everybody gets too old, you ought to

47:51

do one more show, but it has

47:53

to be authentic, it has to be

47:55

real. But I had a big falling

47:57

out with W.E. Right as the DVD came

47:59

out. Why? Because I listened into

48:01

a conference call that I was

48:03

supposed to be on a Smackdown

48:06

conference call and I listened into

48:08

the raw conference call. What did you

48:10

hear? Actually, you know, this is funny

48:12

and this is a story in and

48:14

of itself. I got sent home because

48:17

I got busted listening into the raw

48:19

conference call and the truth of the

48:21

matter is... I didn't really listen

48:24

into that call. What

48:26

happened is those conference

48:28

calls back in December

48:30

2004 were so brutal

48:32

because Vince was home

48:35

on Saturdays and he was

48:37

bored. So... We're going to review

48:39

the shows. Now we already

48:41

reviewed the show on Thursday,

48:43

and we already reviewed the

48:45

show on Friday. And most

48:47

of the writers back then,

48:49

as you will no doubt

48:52

recall, because you didn't like

48:54

them either, were these, as

48:56

Freddie Blassie would say, pencil-neck

48:58

geeks who had no sex

49:00

life whatsoever. I had

49:02

a healthy sex life at home

49:04

and two small children to boot.

49:06

These writers didn't have children

49:09

nor sex lives. I had both. And

49:11

I wanted some time at home because

49:13

I was working all the time. So

49:15

Saturday morning to have a chance to

49:17

take my children down to the

49:20

park, which is at the back

49:22

of the school, which is five

49:24

minutes from my house, seemed like

49:26

a blessing. But Saturday morning at

49:28

10 o'clock to conference, call would

49:30

start. What do we have for

49:32

the paper views? And we discuss

49:34

the paper views. And then, because

49:36

Raw was the flagship show, let's

49:38

discuss Raw. Smackdown, I'll tell you

49:40

when to come back on. But the

49:42

problem was, you know, Vince. Okay, I'm

49:45

done with Raw. Smackdown needs to step

49:47

up right now. Okay, so Vince runs

49:49

away to take a bathroom break for

49:51

a minute or to grab a protein

49:53

bar or whatever he's doing. And by

49:56

the time he comes back on, if

49:58

the Smackdown team's not on. He's going

50:00

through the show without you. So

50:02

I don't have time to be

50:04

at the park with my kids,

50:06

and I get to call from

50:08

whomever the assistant was by then

50:10

going, okay, Vince is ready for

50:13

you. Okay, I gotta go, I

50:15

gotta go, I gotta drive back

50:17

home and get in front of

50:19

my computer, Vince is going through

50:21

the show. I'm a slave to

50:23

the process of being on the

50:25

phone for the conference call. So...

50:27

my girlfriend, squeeze, significant other, mother

50:29

of my children, sweetheart, love of

50:31

my life, however she could be

50:33

phrased, she and I came up

50:35

with the idea that Friday night

50:37

would be our night out. And

50:39

once we went out on Friday

50:41

night, I would stay up all

50:43

night writing the show, I'd send

50:46

it to my assistant writer who

50:48

at the time was David Lagana,

50:50

David Lagana would type out the

50:52

show, but this time I think...

50:54

I think Lagana was probably, yeah,

50:56

Lagana was now by now, either

50:58

the co-writer or the lead writer,

51:00

whatever it was. That was our

51:02

process. I'd see up till 5

51:04

o'clock in the morning, he'd type

51:06

it out, he'd send it out

51:08

at 6 o'clock in the morning,

51:10

we'd say hello to everybody at

51:12

10 o'clock in the morning, and

51:14

then I'd go back to sleep.

51:16

And she would take the kids

51:18

to the park. So when Nicole

51:21

came in, Vince is ready for

51:23

you, Vince is ready for you.

51:25

I do my thing, I run

51:27

downstairs, I pour my iced tea

51:29

or my coffee or whatever, the

51:31

computers are already on, I'm on

51:33

the line. And one way to

51:35

do that was when the 10

51:37

o'clock call would end, I wouldn't

51:39

get off the line. I'd stay

51:41

on the line, I'd put the

51:43

phone back in the charger, and

51:45

I'd go to sleep, and I'd

51:47

have the phone on mute. Hey,

51:49

you needed on the phone. I'm

51:51

already on that particular day when

51:53

I put the phone in the

51:56

charger. It was unplugged. And so

51:58

the battery, after about two hours,

52:00

on the phone, dies. So Vince

52:02

is on the line and of

52:04

course they're talking about the most...

52:06

sensitive subjects in the world and

52:08

this is back in this is

52:10

back in November and they're talking

52:12

about raw's contribution to WrestleMania they're

52:14

on a tear they're actually booking

52:16

this thing out to WrestleMania so

52:18

imagine how top secret this is

52:20

and all of a sudden you hear

52:22

and I didn't say my name

52:24

and they hear blank has left

52:26

the conference And they go,

52:29

oh my God, someone is

52:31

listening into our phone call.

52:33

And they, they research who

52:35

called into the call. And

52:38

of course, that's Paul's

52:40

number. So, so they come

52:42

to me and you, Stephanie

52:44

was so angry at me

52:46

because I was on her team,

52:49

which made her look so bad

52:51

to Vince. And Stephanie comes to

52:53

me. She says, how could you

52:56

do this to me? Do you

52:58

know how angry my father

53:00

is at me? How could

53:03

you listen in to the

53:05

raw call? I want an

53:07

explanation from you. Look me

53:09

in the eyes and tell me

53:11

why. On this day, December

53:14

3rd 2004, you listened

53:16

in to the raw

53:18

conference call. And as God

53:20

is my witness, on my

53:23

children I swore to her,

53:25

I didn't listen in. Because

53:27

The fact was, on that

53:29

particular day, I went back

53:31

to sleep. And I didn't listen

53:33

in to the raw call. And I

53:35

enraged her so bad. And Vince was

53:37

so mad at me and he was

53:39

saying to me, look me in the

53:41

face and tell me, yes, give me

53:43

a reason why. Why would you listen

53:45

in to the raw call? And I

53:47

would say to him, you know, you're

53:50

the guy that wants ruthless

53:52

aggression. You want true competition

53:54

within your company. Now

53:57

if I thought that that

53:59

Russia was... truly competitive with the

54:01

stuff I'm putting on Smackdown. You damn

54:03

right I would listen to that call.

54:05

I would I would I would I

54:08

would steal their mail. I would I

54:10

would put a cup up against the

54:12

wall if I knew you were having

54:14

a meeting in the next room and

54:16

you damn right I would listen to

54:18

the conference call because you can't tell

54:21

me. That if you knew that Eric

54:23

Bischoff and Ted Turner were having a

54:25

conference call in 1997 And you had

54:27

that code that you wouldn't listen in

54:29

he goes good So you're gonna tell

54:32

me now that you listen in and

54:34

I said Vince I didn't listen into

54:36

that call Because the fact was I

54:38

did it and here's the part that

54:40

they've never known ever before It's your

54:42

exclusive to run with so help me

54:45

God Steve I didn't listen into that

54:47

call, but I did listen into the

54:49

six other calls in the previous weeks

54:51

before that. But since they never asked

54:53

me if I did, I never cop

54:56

to it. Yeah, a piece of work.

54:58

So they threw me out after I

55:00

did a casket match with Hide and

55:02

Reich and The Undertaker to stone me

55:04

and put me into the casket, which

55:06

was my farewell. But then they tried

55:09

to put together this ECW show and

55:11

it was going all wrong, which is

55:13

of course the history of ECW. And

55:15

by the time we hit March... Shane

55:17

is calling me saying, hey, you mind

55:20

coming in for a meeting? I don't

55:22

want to get you too close to

55:24

my old man, but maybe you could

55:26

just talk to me about it. And

55:28

the first thing I said was, book

55:30

to Hammerstein Ballroom. Don't go to the

55:33

ECW arena. And once they took a

55:35

look at the Hammerstein Ballroom, they said,

55:37

well, what's the show going to be?

55:39

And Rob Van Dam said to Vince,

55:41

again, this was Rob Van Dam's a

55:44

day. He says, hey, hey, man, just

55:46

so you know, just so you know,

55:48

just so you know, if Paul's not,

55:50

if Paul's not writing, and then, and

55:52

then, and then, and then, and then,

55:54

and then, It's not going to be

55:57

authentic. You have to... let this be

55:59

his vision his flow he he understands

56:01

this product because it was his it's

56:03

my baby so Vince and I had

56:05

our I'm sure you've had these meetings

56:08

you know where you walk in the

56:10

room and he goes i don't know

56:12

if this is going to be a

56:14

hug or if we're going to be

56:16

throwing around the furniture you know and

56:19

i always remember that that was that

56:21

that was the thing with you and

56:23

him and you know when you guys

56:25

saw it in the hotel room in

56:27

l a and uh... you know in

56:29

my old my thing always was well

56:32

at least it won't be a long

56:34

flight because he whipped my ass really

56:36

really good and the only hopes i

56:38

had was boy i'm just wondering just

56:40

do the hug And then doing a

56:43

hug, it was such a great Vince

56:45

move, he gives me a handshake. And

56:47

he says, let's see how the meeting

56:49

goes before we do a huggy. And

56:51

you know, here you had this big

56:53

barrel-chested bodybuilder, you know, and he's Vince

56:56

McMahon, you know, and he can whip

56:58

my ass 15 times over. And when

57:00

he just said something like that, like,

57:02

a huggy, it just, I'll give him

57:04

some, and just, you know how he

57:07

is, it breaks the ice. And we

57:09

sat there, we had this wonderful conversation

57:11

about what I envisioned the show to

57:13

be. And, um... He said I'm at

57:15

TV Monday and Tuesday, I'm back here

57:17

Wednesday, and classic events, where they were

57:20

in Phoenix or something, that Tuesday, and

57:22

he goes, I'll probably be back back

57:24

here around 4 o'clock in the morning,

57:26

and you know me, I can't sleep.

57:28

And that Monday night, I have to

57:31

talk to somebody on Monday night after

57:33

the shows. I won't have time to

57:35

work out, so I'm going to miss

57:37

a workout. When I come back, I'm

57:39

going to work out till I puke.

57:41

I said, oh, that's really nice. I

57:44

usually, you know, eat pizza till I

57:46

puke. And he says, what are you

57:48

doing Wednesday morning around 7am? And I

57:50

said, I don't know, probably going to

57:52

bed. And he goes, let's meet then,

57:55

because I'll just be done working out

57:57

and I'll sleep sometime on Wednesday. And

57:59

we met. next Wednesday because I was

58:01

in the office at Wednesday at 7

58:03

a.m. we actually wrote out the first

58:06

version of the show and from

58:08

there they just kept me around

58:10

enough to write ECW one-night stand.

58:12

You're listening to another classic episode

58:14

of the Steve Austin show only

58:16

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58:50

That's geico.com. He's the

58:52

hardest working guy I've ever met in my

58:54

life. He's got to be up here on

58:56

your scale on your I mean The dude

58:58

doesn't like to sleep. The thing

59:01

with Vince is he didn't like to

59:03

sneeze because it's an involuntary action which

59:05

you cannot control. Well, it's a control

59:07

thing. Yeah, because you know, and I

59:09

told his you know, Ariel how wine

59:11

in the MMA report Yes, when I

59:14

told him this story I was in a

59:16

meeting once with Vince And you know

59:18

you can't sneeze around to me

59:20

if you gotta leave the room.

59:22

Yeah, but yeah, well and because

59:24

he he loses respect for you

59:26

because you couldn't control the sneeze.

59:28

Oh, okay. I didn't know that.

59:30

So I'm sitting there and we

59:32

are going over again another very

59:34

long-range storyline and I'm paying, I'm

59:36

saying man, I just booked out.

59:38

the rest of the year. I

59:40

mean we're at we're at Survivor

59:42

Series and I just gave him

59:44

the rumble into mania and he's

59:46

buying my two main events and I'm

59:49

pitching and I have his attention he

59:51

has not said a word for 15

59:53

minutes and we are staring at each

59:55

other in the eye and it's just

59:57

one of those days where it just

59:59

gels with him. He's buying it and

1:00:01

all of a sudden he goes, a-choo!

1:00:03

And I realize about five minutes

1:00:06

into the continuation

1:00:08

of the pitch, he is not

1:00:10

hearing a word that I'm saying.

1:00:12

I'm just flapping my gums and

1:00:14

you know, it's like one of

1:00:16

those things that in the movies

1:00:18

Roy, you see, is the person's

1:00:21

mouth like, he's not getting, he's

1:00:23

not hearing a word I'm saying

1:00:25

and he's literally mumbling to himself.

1:00:27

I said, Vince, you okay? And

1:00:29

he goes, I sneezed. Because

1:00:31

on height, you need a tissue?

1:00:34

You take my sleeve, you know?

1:00:36

What do you want? And he

1:00:38

goes, I sneezed. I should be

1:00:40

better than that. I should be

1:00:42

able to control that. I don't

1:00:44

like that. You don't like sneezing?

1:00:46

And he goes, in my world,

1:00:49

pal. There is no sneezing. Okay,

1:00:51

so in my world,

1:00:53

there is no sneezing.

1:00:55

Okay, well, how do

1:00:57

you argue with that?

1:00:59

You don't? Because in

1:01:01

his world, there's no

1:01:03

sneezing. I'm ready to

1:01:05

eat lunch. May I join

1:01:07

you, sir? Yes. And come

1:01:09

back into another podcast.

1:01:12

Is anybody still

1:01:14

listening to us? Oh

1:01:16

yeah, right now. If people are

1:01:18

listening to a Steve's cell phone

1:01:21

number is 281. Jesus Christ.

1:01:23

Who's a crazy sum that you've

1:01:25

ever met in the history of

1:01:27

the business that we're not going

1:01:29

to speak disparagingly of, but in

1:01:31

a fun way. The boys. Off

1:01:33

the wall. Well, I mean, to what degree?

1:01:36

I mean, crazy what way? You know, let

1:01:38

me tell you something. When I first came

1:01:40

in ECW, you talked about it. Messed up

1:01:42

locker room mister. I mean because you know

1:01:44

they're at the famous ECW arena there's a

1:01:47

lot of spaces and Cubby holes and stuff.

1:01:49

Well the statute of limitations has run out

1:01:51

on a lot of things that we were

1:01:53

doing back then so you can feel it

1:01:55

was that was an interesting place not just

1:01:57

as far as it was collicula was it?

1:02:00

Yeah, there was sex drugs and rock

1:02:02

and roll going on in that locker

1:02:04

room beyond description And people have tried

1:02:06

to describe it and have failed to

1:02:08

do so I might add. It was

1:02:10

an interesting dynamic. I hooked up with

1:02:12

the pit bulls and it was two

1:02:14

good guys and had a blast of

1:02:17

them. I had my entire stay there.

1:02:19

I enjoyed my time in ECW. It

1:02:21

was a bunch of good guys. The

1:02:23

only demand on the performers that we

1:02:25

had was just do everything you can

1:02:27

to give the people a show and

1:02:29

do the best to present yourself as

1:02:32

a performer as best as you can.

1:02:34

I mean that was... It was a

1:02:36

theater company. Yeah. You know, and that's

1:02:38

how I envisioned it. It was a

1:02:40

theater company and I wanted to get

1:02:42

things out of my performers that nobody

1:02:44

else could get out and I wanted

1:02:47

the people who came to our shows

1:02:49

to acknowledge the fact that this is

1:02:51

the best damn show they could ever

1:02:53

see. Hey, but man, going back to

1:02:55

the when I asked you about when

1:02:57

the wheels fell off and how they

1:02:59

fell off and you broke all that

1:03:02

down. But man, I've seen all of

1:03:04

y'all's great ECW shirts when y'all were

1:03:06

on television when y' y'all were on

1:03:08

television, you know, you know, well we

1:03:10

just kept investing the money back into

1:03:12

the company and again you know we

1:03:14

didn't we didn't have TNA's financing TNA

1:03:16

is financed by by a billionaire you

1:03:19

know and we didn't have a network

1:03:21

that was backing us and if we

1:03:23

had a network that was backing us

1:03:25

that would have been a different story

1:03:27

and we didn't have enough licenses that

1:03:29

we could sell you know it goes

1:03:31

like this back in the 90s a

1:03:34

group that wanted to distribute our paper

1:03:36

views with semaphore entertainment. And

1:03:38

it was Bob Meyerowitz, David Isaac's,

1:03:40

Campbell McLaren, and their EVP of

1:03:42

Michael Abramson. And Semaphore is a

1:03:45

name that some people may recognize

1:03:47

because Semaphore owned UFC. They were

1:03:49

the creators of and the first

1:03:51

owners of UFC. And they were

1:03:54

the ones that John McCain called

1:03:56

the... promoters of human cockfighting. They

1:03:58

could not get clearance on pay-per-view.

1:04:00

They were banned in so many

1:04:02

in 38 states or whatever the

1:04:05

number really was. And of course,

1:04:07

you know, the big moment happened

1:04:09

when they were trying to get

1:04:11

their Nevada license and if they

1:04:14

couldn't get the Nevada license, they

1:04:16

were going to go out of business

1:04:18

and Lorenzo Frittita was on the, was

1:04:20

it, Lorenzo or Frank, I think it

1:04:23

was Lorenzo or Frank, and if it

1:04:25

was Lorenzo, I'm sure someone will correct

1:04:27

me on, when they tweet me on

1:04:30

Twitter. And one of the Fertita brothers

1:04:32

was a member of the Nevada State

1:04:34

Athletic Commission and they went to Bob

1:04:36

Meyerowitz afterwards and said, this

1:04:39

is so interesting, we'd like

1:04:41

to buy it. So the Fertita

1:04:43

brothers bought UFC, informed Zufa Entertainment.

1:04:46

What does Zufa stand for? I

1:04:48

have absolutely no idea. I wish

1:04:50

I knew and I feel ignorant

1:04:53

not knowing that answer and I

1:04:55

should know the answer, but I

1:04:58

don't. So, the Fertitas famously went

1:05:00

$44 million in the hole with

1:05:02

Dana White as the president of

1:05:05

the company before they came up

1:05:07

with the reality show, The Ultimate

1:05:09

Fighter, which turned around their

1:05:11

fortunes and helped them become

1:05:13

a multi-billion-dollar company. They had

1:05:16

$44 million to lose over

1:05:18

the course of the four

1:05:20

years that they had before

1:05:22

they launched that TV show.

1:05:24

I didn't have $44 million

1:05:26

to lose. I didn't even

1:05:28

lose $7 million. We actually

1:05:30

only lost, if you think

1:05:32

about it, four, because 2.8

1:05:34

of it was owed to

1:05:36

us by the pay-per-view distributors

1:05:38

who didn't give us our money.

1:05:40

But that's business. Because I'm sure that

1:05:42

there's a lot of other businesses. Hey,

1:05:44

when THQ went out of business, they

1:05:47

didn't give Vince McMahon and W.W.E. the

1:05:49

royalties on the video games that they

1:05:51

had already sold. They went bankrupt. That's

1:05:53

what a bankruptcy happens. And one of

1:05:55

the things when you're in business is

1:05:57

you have to have the ability to

1:05:59

withdraw. stand that type of a loss

1:06:01

when your invoices don't get paid

1:06:03

to stay in business for the next

1:06:05

day. ECW should

1:06:07

never have lasted one day.

1:06:11

And that's the part of ECW

1:06:13

that people don't truly understand. We

1:06:15

weren't designed to last a day.

1:06:17

We took this vision thinking, how

1:06:19

can we survive a day? Hey,

1:06:22

but on the day that we

1:06:24

survive, let's give them the best

1:06:26

show that we possibly can. And

1:06:28

we survived seven years that way.

1:06:30

And I don't find that the

1:06:32

fact that we went out of

1:06:34

business to make that defines ECW

1:06:36

as unsuccessful. Bubba Ray Dudley of all

1:06:38

people had the greatest

1:06:40

analogy I ever heard. And I've heard

1:06:42

other people say similar things, but he

1:06:44

phrased it the best. He said ECW

1:06:46

was Napster. It absolutely

1:06:48

changed the business. It changed the

1:06:50

way the business looked at talent.

1:06:53

It changed the way the business

1:06:55

did television. It changed the presentation

1:06:57

of the business and it made

1:06:59

the business recognize and seek out

1:07:01

far more contemporary storylines,

1:07:03

far more contemporary characters, far

1:07:05

more contemporary music.

1:07:07

He said, and just like Napster,

1:07:09

it changed the industry and had its

1:07:11

time. And its effect on the

1:07:13

industry was to change the industry. And

1:07:15

honestly, back in those days, our

1:07:18

goal wasn't to become millionaires, though that

1:07:20

would have been nice. Our goal

1:07:22

was to change the business. That was

1:07:24

the cause. That was the Kool -Aid.

1:07:26

We're going to revolutionize the business.

1:07:28

We're going to change the industry. And

1:07:30

that's what we did. And it

1:07:32

ran its course. So I don't think

1:07:34

that it was unsuccessful because it

1:07:36

went out of business. I actually think

1:07:38

ECW was successful because it lived

1:07:40

up to its goal. It changed the

1:07:42

industry. And once it changed the

1:07:44

industry, its time was over. And with

1:07:46

that being said, we can't end

1:07:48

on any other note. Appreciate it. Thank

1:07:50

you very much. Thank you for

1:07:52

joining us for another classic episode of

1:07:54

the Steve Austin Show. Please leave

1:07:56

a rating and review on Apple Podcasts

1:07:58

and tell your friends. For

1:08:00

more Steve Austin show go

1:08:02

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podcast o and e.com A

1:08:11

true crime podcast it

1:08:13

got me upset because this is

1:08:16

someone's kid and someone knows she's

1:08:18

gone that takes a different approach

1:08:20

it was shocking for something

1:08:22

like this to happen in our

1:08:24

little town focusing on the

1:08:26

communities affected by life shattering

1:08:28

crimes it made news throughout

1:08:30

the entire region that these two

1:08:32

people had been shot while they

1:08:34

slept in such a safe community

1:08:36

to give a new perspective on

1:08:38

the devastation crimes can cause

1:08:40

it was shocking

1:08:43

for something like this to happen

1:08:45

in our little town featuring cases

1:08:47

from quiet towns to bustling cities

1:08:49

and interviewing the people closest to

1:08:51

the case my first thought was that

1:08:53

it's an unusual location for

1:08:55

us to have a homicide listen

1:08:57

to the true crime podcast city confidential

1:08:59

and step beyond the yellow tape

1:09:01

to learn just how far a crime can

1:09:03

reach there are certain cases in the history

1:09:05

of Boston that I think sort of define

1:09:07

the city I think this is one of

1:09:09

them new episodes of the city

1:09:11

confidential podcast are available every

1:09:14

thursday available wherever you get

1:09:16

your podcasts a true crime

1:09:18

podcast it got me upset because

1:09:20

this is someone's kid and someone

1:09:22

knows she's gone that takes a

1:09:24

different approach it was shocking for

1:09:26

something like this to happen in

1:09:28

our little town focusing on

1:09:31

the communities affected by life

1:09:33

shattering crimes it made news

1:09:35

throughout the entire region that these

1:09:37

two people had been shot while

1:09:39

they slept in such a safe

1:09:41

community to give a new perspective

1:09:43

on the devastation crimes can

1:09:45

cause it was

1:09:47

shocking for something like this to

1:09:49

happen in our little town featuring

1:09:51

cases from quiet towns to bustling

1:09:53

cities and interviewing the people closest

1:09:56

to the case my first thought

1:09:58

was that it's an

1:10:00

unusual location for us to have a homicide.

1:10:02

Listen to the True Crime podcast City Confidential

1:10:04

and step beyond the yellow tape to

1:10:06

learn just how far a crime can

1:10:08

reach. There are certain cases in the history

1:10:10

of Boston that I think sort of define

1:10:12

the city. I think this is vulnerable. New

1:10:15

episodes of the City Confidential podcast

1:10:17

are available every Thursday, available

1:10:19

wherever you get your podcasts.