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0:47

Podcast One presents the Steve

0:49

Austin Show Classics. I'm

0:52

sitting here in the Brooklyn School Ranch

0:54

talking to Leon White, also

0:56

known around the world as Big Van

0:58

Vader, coming to me from, where you

1:00

at Leon? You in the bowl of

1:02

Colorado today? Where in Colorado, buddy?

1:05

God dang, man. We've been talking about

1:08

getting together on a podcast and shooting a

1:10

breeze, and you reached out to me

1:13

through an email, and it was so good to

1:15

hear from you because I've been wanting to get

1:17

you on the show and just really basically wondering

1:19

in general how you were doing because I hadn't

1:21

heard from you in so many years. How

1:24

you feeling right now? Steve, I'm feeling good.

1:26

I mean, I'm probably in better shape than

1:28

I've been in the last 20 years. Physically,

1:31

mentally, things are going well. You know,

1:33

I'm in the gym every day and I'm

1:36

on the road a little bit here. So things

1:38

are going good. And, you know, talking

1:40

about knowing you, how long do we

1:42

go back? We met what in the

1:44

early 90s and WCW. And

1:46

I don't even remember the first time we met. Do you

1:49

know? I know, buddy. Tell me.

1:52

I don't know. I don't remember. I just remember

1:54

when we hit it off and man, you had a hell

1:56

of a run in WCW

1:59

as a lead hill, but we're just shooting a breeze

2:02

on a family friendly show. There's gonna be an

2:04

S bomb here and there drop, but we're

2:06

not gonna drop any F bombs while we're talking

2:09

on this hour. Man, I wanna go back to

2:11

your beginnings because hell, I'd forgot.

2:13

You've been from Boulder, Colorado for so long

2:15

or living out in that area. I

2:17

just assumed that's where you're from, but little did

2:20

I know that you were born in LA. I

2:23

was born in Compton, California. Actually,

2:25

the hospital, St. Francis

2:27

Hospital in Lindwood, that we were living

2:29

in Compton and they

2:32

were, but you grew up fast in that

2:34

part of Los Angeles in the 60s, you

2:37

got consumed. Now, quite frankly,

2:39

I mean, Compton, you

2:41

don't hear, you get a whole lot of white folks

2:43

living in Compton. But back in the

2:45

60s, were there a lot more white people in Compton at

2:47

the time? Yeah, it was

2:50

probably about a 60-40 deal. Right.

2:53

And my mother had an aunt that lived

2:55

there. She had a big nice home in

2:58

Compton and my

3:00

mother had her sister, my aunt. And

3:03

we kind of settled next to her and my

3:05

dad was working. He was

3:07

a Navy diver and he

3:10

could weld in the water. So he worked down

3:13

in San Pedro and from Compton. That was

3:15

just 10, 15 minutes away. So it was

3:17

a good spot for us to live. And

3:19

we were right there on the Boulevard, right

3:21

next to Compton College. And

3:24

when we got there, when I was a

3:26

young kid, it was a nice place

3:28

to live. And

3:30

as time went on, it got more

3:33

dominant in terms of a

3:35

lot of, I really don't know how to

3:37

say this, but a lot of the white

3:39

people were leaving town. And the neighborhood was

3:41

becoming more of a black neighborhood.

3:43

And it was

3:46

a rough place to grow up. I mean,

3:49

you wanted to live in Compton, California, you had to earn

3:51

it. Let's put it that way. Well, how long were you

3:53

there? Because you went to Bell High School, right? Because that's

3:55

not Compton High School. How'd you end up over at Bell?

4:00

that you know that electric hoist where they hoist

4:02

cars up and work on the mufflers underneath? Yeah.

4:04

Okay, well my dad actually invented that and sold it for

4:06

I think $2,000 to a couple guys and then

4:10

they became millionaires and my

4:12

dad had actually built the first one because he was a

4:14

welder and he was getting in those

4:17

pits. What they used to do is drive cars over

4:19

a little pit in the ground and you'd get in

4:21

there and lay on your back and weld

4:23

these mufflers and fix them and stuff like that

4:25

and he kind of was

4:27

a smart man and pretty creative and

4:30

those types of things and he

4:32

built his hoist and it just lifted it up and

4:34

you could stand there and cut this thing off and

4:36

work and he didn't know what

4:38

he had and he sold it and guys

4:40

mass produced that and you know made millions of

4:42

dollars in Los Angeles and all

4:44

these muffler shops across country now got them. So

4:47

we were doing pretty well and he was making

4:50

good money. We moved out to Anaheim and bought

4:52

one of those little houses and

4:54

they had to tore down one

4:56

of those orange grovers and built

4:58

some little small single-family homes and

5:00

then from there we migrated back

5:02

to Bell and where I

5:04

went to school at Bell High. Now dude you've always

5:06

been a big guy. We were

5:09

talking earlier and your mother was like

5:11

four feet how many inches tall? Well

5:15

my mom, God bless her, Steve, thank you

5:17

for bringing that up. She's the

5:19

love of my life. I'll tell you what she's four foot ten

5:22

and just tougher nails and she's

5:24

an 87 year old today. She walks a

5:26

half hour a day. She'll outlive

5:28

me that's for sure but... Where's she living now?

5:31

She lives in Sonora, California. Okay.

5:34

My sister and brother up there and it's

5:36

a little mountain town just

5:39

a couple hours north of Sacramento

5:42

and they'd like it up to it's about 3,500

5:44

feet so they don't get much snow and it's

5:47

a little bit cooler in the summers. Sacramento gets

5:49

pretty hot now and they're

5:51

doing great but anyway she's four foot ten

5:54

and the doctor grabbed my dad

5:56

and said hey you know we don't know what

5:58

you got in there but it's big and he's

6:00

coming. out now. So at seven months and three

6:02

weeks I came out at 10 pounds and 16

6:04

ounces and 23 and a half

6:06

inches long. And I

6:08

guess the thinking on that was if

6:11

they did not abuse labor when they did,

6:13

it probably would have killed my mom of

6:15

giving me birth. I was just too good

6:17

for her. My

6:19

big guy, he was 6'4",

6:21

my grandpa was 6'6",

6:24

and redheaded guy. So I

6:26

got my size from my dad's side of

6:28

the family, obviously. So you start growing up,

6:30

are you bigger than everybody in every single

6:32

class you're in? Yeah, for

6:35

a long time. I kind of

6:37

felt out of place. I was a little bit

6:39

awkward socially. I was fourth

6:41

grade, I'm a foot taller than everybody, 50, 60, 70 pounds

6:43

heavier than everybody.

6:47

And I was overweight, but I

6:49

wasn't fat. I was big. I

6:51

remember my dad, his thing was

6:54

he used to cook breakfast on Sunday mornings,

6:57

and that was his thing. And boy, he could

6:59

cook eggs and sausage

7:01

and bacon and pancakes

7:03

and just anything he wanted,

7:05

grits. And that was his

7:08

deal. I polished off

7:10

10, 15 eggs and some pancakes.

7:12

And I got up from that table and

7:15

I guess he took a look at my bag, stood

7:17

up and turned my back and stretched my hands. And

7:19

I was all about seven or eight years old. And

7:21

he looked at me and said, son,

7:23

you got to do something because you're just getting

7:25

too big, too fast. And so

7:28

he grabbed me by the wrist and took me down to

7:32

Pop Warner Football and signed me up. I

7:34

thought the exercise of doing me good. And

7:36

they said, well, how old is your son?

7:39

And he said, well, and

7:41

I don't really remember. I was seven or eight.

7:44

And they said, well, he didn't have to

7:46

play with either the

7:48

nine and 10 years old and maybe the 10 or

7:50

11 year olds. And let me

7:52

tell you something, Steve, that's a big difference for

7:54

you that age. I literally got the you

7:59

know what beat out of me. I got on

8:01

that scale and they said, you know what, he can play 10 years

8:03

old, but he's going to have to lose,

8:06

you know, 20 pounds to do that. So that's

8:08

the ball career started and, you

8:11

know, kind of went on from there. Okay. So

8:13

you go to high school and you're playing at

8:15

Bell High School, you're all American, you're all Los

8:18

Angeles. And you were saying, you were telling me

8:20

that hell, the all Los Angeles team was tougher

8:22

to make than the all American team. Was

8:24

the competition, the roster of talent coming from

8:27

that area that deep? Well, let me tell

8:29

you why. And, you know, Steve, I know

8:31

you're from Texas and I've had some heated

8:34

conversations with people from Texas and

8:36

there's a lot of good football states

8:39

and cities in Los

8:41

Angeles, California. I mean,

8:43

they put out a lot of good football players

8:45

and Texas is certainly one of them. But

8:49

just for the record, you know, and I

8:51

understand Los Angeles has a lot of people in

8:53

it. They've got over what 800

8:55

high schools now. And back then it was five

8:57

or six hundred high schools. So

9:00

just in sheer numbers, you know, Los Angeles

9:02

puts out more, more high school,

9:04

all Americans, more college, all Americans, more pros, more

9:06

all pros and more Hall of Fame football

9:09

players than any other city and

9:11

country. So we played good football

9:14

and, you know, competition breeds excellence.

9:16

And we, I think we

9:18

lost, we lost two football games in four

9:20

years of my career. So we were in

9:22

the city, city championships every

9:24

year. And you know, you could make all state,

9:27

you could make all American and you could, you

9:29

could make all conference. But the team to make

9:31

the hardest thing to make was that all Los

9:33

Angeles team. And I was fortunate enough to make

9:36

that all Los Angeles team because like I said,

9:38

there's some good football players in Los Angeles. And,

9:41

you know, you look on that roster, that

9:43

first team, all Los Angeles team back in

9:45

my era and you'll see

9:48

guys go on to college and pros and,

9:50

you know, all throw and etc, etc.

9:52

So you're there, Bill, high school, Liam. What position on the line

9:55

are you playing? Well, I was an offensive and defensive tackle. starter

10:00

at Bill High and

10:03

I love playing defense. I mean, that

10:05

was really my position and probably just

10:07

wasn't quite fast enough. So is that

10:09

why you stayed at offensive land? Yeah,

10:14

in other words, when they recruited me, they

10:17

recruited me. I had a bunch of sacks

10:19

in high school and a bunch of tackles

10:21

and kind of thought of offensive

10:23

linemen as being my

10:26

second position. I could play it and I could do

10:28

well at it. But just

10:31

my love and my heart was

10:33

at that defensive spot, either the

10:35

inside tackle or the outside tackle.

10:38

And I'd even shift back

10:40

into a linebacker from time to time because

10:42

on the high school level, I

10:45

could run with those guys. You got into

10:47

college and guys are faster and they looked

10:50

at me and said, well, you're a center and a

10:52

guard. So I got

10:54

to University of Colorado and started out at

10:56

guard and started my

10:58

freshman year and ended up

11:00

being all-conferenced and all-American

11:03

at guard my junior year. And then I

11:05

moved out to tackle season and

11:08

we played both sides. So I started at

11:10

all five offensive line positions and

11:12

I was a preseason all-American tackle going

11:15

into my first senior year and it

11:17

was against Texas Tech and I

11:20

ruptured a cartilage, that medial meniscus.

11:23

So I got redshirted, got my fifth year

11:25

moved into center and you

11:28

really kind of find my home. I love center

11:30

and it turned out, you know, the lateral movement

11:32

I had, you know, snapped that ball

11:34

and cut off that frontside one technique. And then

11:37

for those people who don't understand that is

11:39

you got to play running to the right

11:41

and you're the center and you got a

11:43

man in that frontside gap. In other words,

11:45

you got to cut him off and he's

11:47

already two feet to the

11:50

right of you right where the play is

11:52

going and you got to get your body

11:54

on the other side of him and cut

11:56

him off. So when you talk about a

11:58

center cutting off that frontside technique. that one

12:00

technique, that's hard to do. And

12:03

moved on to the Los Angeles Rams

12:05

and played for a few years and

12:07

participated in that Super Bowl that the

12:09

Rams played in. And never

12:11

started as a professional football player. There was a

12:13

gentleman by the name of Rich Saul and he

12:16

had that center position also that he was a 16, 17 year

12:18

old pro. And

12:21

boy, I'll tell you what, he was good. And

12:23

being center in the NFL is

12:25

about being big and strong, but it's more

12:27

about experience and knowledge than anything. And this

12:30

guy was an

12:32

all pro and the best. And

12:34

it wasn't about beating him out, it was

12:36

about waiting till he got done and gave

12:38

it up and then, that's just the bottom

12:40

line and that guy was that good. So

12:43

I was in the preseason game and I

12:45

had played three quarters of that preseason game

12:47

against Dallas Cowboys. And

12:50

you might remember this coming from Texas.

12:52

You remember a guy named Randy White,

12:54

he's an all-namer. Man, I barely remember

12:56

that guy. Yes, everybody in the world,

12:58

especially from Texas knows Randy

13:01

White. Randy White, when he was, I

13:03

was scared to death and Randy was

13:05

starting and I said, Leanne, here's your

13:07

shot, you wanted it. And I

13:09

said, well, who's Randy White? And

13:12

I went, my God. But I

13:14

shut Randy White out for three quarters and

13:16

no tackles, no sacks. I shut him out.

13:19

So how was going head to head with

13:22

Randy White? He's all favored, what

13:24

do you say? He had the speed and

13:26

the strength. He

13:28

was a 500 plus pound bench pressure

13:30

back then and really had moved

13:32

in from the linebacker. So the

13:35

thing that I matched up well with Randy is

13:37

I had quickness and I had strength to match

13:39

in this. And then

13:41

Randy being the linebacker, he didn't have

13:44

long arms. Right. And really

13:46

for like, if I was coming up today,

13:49

I'd be a good football player and

13:51

I might still get up into the

13:53

NFL. But the NFL offensive

13:55

guards, not necessarily the

13:57

centers, but the offensive guards and

13:59

the tackles. Steve, they have

14:01

longer arms and these guys are recruited for

14:03

this. And it's simple that

14:05

the defensive line may have longer arms.

14:07

So if you're a big strong offensive

14:09

guard and your arms are four inches

14:12

shorter than that guy across

14:14

the line from you, just

14:16

pure mathematics. And she

14:19

geometry is gonna tell you he's gonna get his

14:21

hands on you first. And boy,

14:23

that's a big deal. And then she's got his

14:25

hands on you first and you don't have a

14:27

hold of him, you

14:29

can't get a grasp on him, he's

14:32

gonna beat you. Right. So in today's

14:34

NFL, I would definitely be a center

14:36

today because it's more about positioning than

14:38

it is having longer

14:40

arms. So the thing that

14:42

I matched up well with Randy is he

14:44

was a linebacker converted to a defensive tackle.

14:47

So his arms was a real long and

14:49

got on the sweep, Steve. And then

14:52

I cut back to catch cornerback to the slice

14:55

and then backside to get to tailback on a sweep

14:58

right and I planted my right leg

15:00

and boy that patellar tendon just exploded.

15:03

And that was it, boy. I woke

15:05

up, took the big hits from the cornerback cuz

15:08

I planted that leg and boy you stuck it

15:10

right under my jaw. I woke

15:12

up, I mean I was out and

15:14

I kinda sat up and I couldn't see

15:16

my right leg. And where

15:19

did that go? And I looked and

15:21

it just made, that knee joint hit

15:23

me to a 90 degree turn, right

15:26

turn and I mean, I couldn't

15:28

see it. And I was looking at, there

15:30

it is, it's over to the side and

15:32

to the back. That's not a good sign.

15:34

So it's well up

15:36

to tiller tendon, both ligaments, both carvages and

15:40

the Ram just put me in hospital

15:42

and fixed it all up. So there

15:44

you are, Leon, what are you weighing

15:46

while you're playing football? 315,

15:50

I was big for the era. I

15:52

mean, most guards and centers back then were in

15:55

that, 275,

15:57

285 range and- Okay,

15:59

senior 350. What do you mention? Did you mention 600

16:01

at the time? I was

16:03

probably, you know, 520, 525, maybe 530, you know, in

16:05

that range. What

16:09

kind of 40 times? Well,

16:11

I was 48, 5, 4, 9. I

16:14

was pretty quick for a bit. That's pretty

16:16

good 40. That's

16:19

yeah, I mean, you know, for me 315 pounds was light.

16:23

So you know, I had good

16:26

legs and good strength. And you know,

16:28

I could run that after that injury,

16:30

but that's what about 40 times coming

16:32

out of college, I was I was

16:36

legitimate height was 6'3 and 5'8 and

16:38

that was that was with an NFL

16:40

measurement stick. And you know,

16:42

they they're pretty rough on that height. They don't give

16:44

nothing. Right. Right. And

16:47

6'3 and 5'8 and I was like 315 pounds and I did a single rep at 5'5 and

16:49

a quarter and

16:54

then did that two and a quarter. I

16:57

did it 54 times and you

16:59

know, an NFL lineman today is doing it 35 or

17:01

40. So I

17:03

was pretty strong had a lot of endurance on that

17:06

rep, but you just got to

17:08

remember we that the NFL

17:10

back then wasn't doing blood testing for any

17:12

kind of substances that might be in the

17:14

body. So we were able to take advantage

17:16

of things that they're not necessarily able to

17:18

take advantage of today. Right. You

17:20

know what I'm saying? Oh, I hear

17:22

what you're saying loud and clear. So

17:24

you go from having all the materials,

17:26

all the size, the speed, the strength

17:28

to be a dominant offensive lineman in

17:30

NFL. You get your leg

17:32

cut out, you blow out the patella tendon,

17:35

the Los Angeles Rams. Plan B is you

17:37

go back to Bell and start selling real

17:39

estate. Did you graduate from Colorado

17:41

and get a business degree to do that?

17:44

At the universe Colorado, I did graduate with a

17:46

business degree and I and when you

17:48

said I went back to there, that was I

17:51

believe I made a mistake in the notes. No,

17:54

I came back to Boulder when I, I, I

17:56

stayed in LA. I got a

17:58

pretty good bonus and I had bought a

18:00

four. right there in North Long Beach. It

18:03

was about three blocks off the beach. And I

18:05

was living in that big

18:07

three-bedroom apartment on the ground floor, and then

18:10

I had three two-bedroom apartments in the back.

18:12

So first thing I did

18:14

was put that up for sale and realized there

18:16

was nothing for me in LA. And

18:18

growing up there, I had two sets

18:21

of friends. I had friends that were

18:23

Los Angeles Rams friends. And

18:25

once you're not part of the team, I mean, they, it's

18:28

kind of weird. You get hurt

18:30

and they don't want you around because it's kind

18:32

of a bad omen. Right. You know

18:34

what I'm saying? And so I wasn't like I

18:37

was gonna be buddies with these

18:39

guys. And then, you know, your buddies in high

18:41

school that were still living

18:43

in Bell, and that is inner city

18:45

LA, that's South Central, you know, Bell

18:47

and Southgate and Huntington Park

18:49

and all that. So that was

18:51

a whole different life for me. And

18:54

I didn't want to get back into that environment.

18:56

So the first thing I did is I ran back

18:59

to Boulder, Colorado and

19:01

in that era was small little

19:03

sleepy town and

19:05

predominantly white and safe.

19:08

Let me put it that way. Safe for me because

19:10

I was a type of individual that could have gone

19:12

either way at that point. Right. And

19:15

so I got my real estate degree and went

19:18

to class and passed that

19:20

test, started selling real estate. Well, Mancie,

19:22

you're in your early twenties right now

19:24

and you spent a big part of

19:26

your life in the business of professional

19:28

wrestling, but you haven't mentioned it

19:30

one time, really basically as a

19:33

part of your growing up. Did

19:35

you watch the business as a kid? Were

19:37

you a fan of the business back in

19:39

the day or was it purely I'm a

19:41

football player and that's it? No,

19:43

that's a good question. I saw

19:45

myself be honest with you as a football player.

19:47

I was gonna play 15 years and

19:51

make as much money as I could

19:53

and pay off my house and

19:56

have a family and then get into

19:58

coaching football. Yeah. that I

20:00

really not missed my calling because that's

20:03

that's my passion coaching. And

20:06

I'm good at it just let out good at it

20:08

and so that will play in

20:10

an opportunity to be in that be in

20:12

that situation where I can can coach young

20:15

kids whether it's football, baseball. Well,

20:18

what about what about coaching some pro wrestling, I

20:20

mean to me you know what watching your mannerisms

20:22

in a ring, I was watching a lot of

20:24

footage of you one of things that I've always

20:27

liked about you. Just

20:29

just your main streak. Just

20:31

when you opened up on

20:33

a guy your demeanor, your body

20:36

language and guys as simple as

20:38

that may sound. It's

20:40

a little more complex than it actually is because

20:42

some people totally missed the boat on that. And

20:45

did you always have that main streak and

20:48

I'm not talking as a mean human being

20:50

because everybody knows you kind of knew you

20:52

the big teddy bear and you could certainly

20:54

have your moments, but in the ring as

20:58

I would probably assume on the football

21:00

field you had that killer instinct and

21:02

the drive to just be dominant and

21:04

to me in football and wrestling you

21:06

must possess that. You

21:09

know, I don't know see why. As

21:15

a football player and as a a

21:19

wrestler. Let's just take wrestling when

21:21

I when I walk into the

21:23

arena. I I got

21:25

into character. I mean then I got out

21:27

of that car grab my bag part, you

21:30

know parked in the underground parking. Let's say

21:32

we're at CNN CNN Center in Atlanta. We

21:35

get there early and we would park that

21:37

car underneath and then the ground parking and

21:40

I'd grab my bag and I walk into the

21:42

arena and I get in care. I became Vader

21:44

at that moment. And there

21:46

was 2 distinct. Individuals,

21:49

I guess that that that

21:53

happened for me and I started

21:55

becoming Vader in all the way to my boots

21:57

and let's put on the mask. I

22:00

was going over my match, I didn't think as

22:02

Leon White anymore because, you know, as

22:04

Leon White, I guess I am, I'm

22:08

just a different person. I don't really

22:10

want to speculate on who I am or

22:12

who I've become later on in

22:14

life. And

22:16

I guess I did the same thing in football.

22:20

And when I was a young kid growing up,

22:22

I would go over to the high school and

22:25

I would watch it and I would see the

22:27

size and the strength of these guys and the

22:30

aggressiveness and the coach was screaming and hauling

22:32

and that was just instilled

22:34

in me. And I guess growing

22:36

up in Compton, California, I mean, and

22:39

I'll tell you a quick story, you know,

22:41

and this is a little personal. I

22:43

don't feel bad about Sharon. My father's passed away and

22:46

he was a good man. But

22:48

he, you know, he had his

22:50

problems with the alcohol. I mean, obviously there

22:52

was no drugs and no pills involved back

22:54

then. He was a big guy, six

22:57

foot four, 270 pounds. And, you

22:59

know, he lifted weights and he was big,

23:01

strong and powerful. And he worked hard. He

23:03

got up at four in the morning and

23:05

welded all day and he'd come

23:07

home and take a

23:10

nap on the couch and get a shower.

23:12

And he'd go out and have

23:14

a good time. And one

23:17

night he took my mother with him

23:20

and they were out at one of the local

23:22

bars, maybe two or three miles from the house.

23:25

And my sister and I were sitting

23:28

there and we were watching. I remember this.

23:30

We were watching that original series of Star

23:33

Trek and you may be

23:35

too young for this. Oh, no, dude, I was

23:37

a big Star Trek fan. Go ahead. Man, I

23:39

was, I'm a huge, still am, still am a

23:41

huge Star Trek fan. But I remember watching Captain

23:43

Kirk on that black and white TV and me

23:46

and my sister were there and boy,

23:49

three men, three men were coming

23:51

through the back window. And one

23:53

guy was already in the house and

23:56

he was pulling through the second guy. See,

23:58

he was standing on my bed. and the

24:00

second guy through. And the

24:02

third guy was pushing, you know, I could see

24:04

the third guy out the window. And

24:07

I mean, I just froze for an

24:09

instance. He looked at me and I looked at him

24:11

and boy, I'll tell you what, I

24:13

screamed to my sister and I said, one.

24:15

And boy, I went over

24:18

there and grabbed her hand, she froze. And we ran out

24:20

that front door, went down to

24:22

neighbors, called the cops. And of course they had left

24:24

and, you know, it was close. I had

24:26

no idea what they would have done. I had no

24:28

idea what they were doing in there. My

24:31

dad had some guns in a gun case.

24:33

He had some pistols and shotguns and he'd

24:35

take me hunting on the weekend and we'd drive out

24:37

and shoot some rabbits and cook them and eat them.

24:41

I don't know what, I mean, we obviously didn't have nothing. So

24:43

I don't know why they were in there. And I

24:45

think it was they were up to no good. My sister

24:47

was a couple of years older than me and she

24:50

was a pretty little thing. So it

24:53

scared me to think about what would have happened. But

24:56

my buddy knew where my dad, my mom was and

24:59

called up that, you know, they

25:01

were having a beer. And like I said, it

25:03

wasn't something that was out in the ordinary for

25:05

us. But this next thing that

25:07

happened, my dad came back and got a 20

25:09

gauge shotgun, gave me a box of

25:12

shells and said, Leon, you know how to do it. Cops

25:14

had left and he said, you know how

25:16

to load this thing and you know how to use it. I've taught you. He

25:19

says, if they come back, you

25:21

know what to do. And he took a board,

25:23

a board and some nails and a hammer and

25:26

real handyman and he boarded up that window

25:28

and he went back out and finished drinking.

25:31

And so I was I

25:33

was eight years old that time. My sister was

25:35

10. And that might tell you a little bit

25:37

about, you know,

25:39

my ability to turn it on and

25:41

turn it off. Right. And at times

25:44

in my life, you know,

25:46

I've had trouble turning it off. You know, you

25:48

got to be Vader for so

25:50

long and so so

25:52

meaningful. I mean, sometimes I think I went

25:54

overboard in the character and

25:57

I guess it made me real believable. And

26:01

maybe I look back and think I

26:03

might have got into that character too much, might

26:05

have worked a little too stiff. I'm

26:08

sure I would have had the better success,

26:10

especially in the WWE had I been able

26:12

to tone that character down and work

26:16

within the framework of that particular company.

26:18

And then I think that's important in

26:20

professional wrestling. You have to, if

26:23

you're a coach, you have to coach

26:25

from the traditional flexibility. And if you're

26:28

a wrestler, you have to wrestle within

26:30

a parameters of flexibility. But

26:33

Steve, yeah, just to answer your question, get back to

26:35

you said, were you always gonna be a football player?

26:38

My high school PE coach was an

26:40

Italian dude. And he

26:43

worked for a company down in downtown

26:45

Los Angeles. And every Friday night

26:47

they had shows. And we

26:49

would catch a bus and his

26:52

name was Coach Faragamo.

26:55

About five foot nine and 240 pound

26:58

Italian guy, he worked under a mask. And we'd

27:01

go down there and we were mesmerized by it. So

27:03

I was always a wrestling fan. But obviously

27:05

I gotta be honest, my first level

27:07

football, and that's what

27:10

I pursued. But I was fascinated by the

27:13

whole thing about stepping outside of that curtain. And

27:15

regardless if you're having a good day or

27:17

a bad day in your life, it

27:19

just goes away and you become Vader and you get

27:21

in front of however many people are there

27:24

whether there's 200 or 20,000. And

27:27

boy, it's just feeling like none other and I

27:29

got addicted to it. And she's I've

27:31

been doing it for 30 years now. So

27:33

30 years in the business. I'm talking to

27:35

Leon White from Boulder, Colorado on a Skype

27:38

call. I hope this sound quality is good

27:40

for everybody. It is what it is. Leon's

27:42

over there. I'm over here, but we gotta

27:44

do some audio whoop ass for you, the

27:46

working man and the working woman. I'm gonna

27:48

come right back from a pause. Take

27:51

a break. Let's do some words from our sponsors

27:53

who keep us on the air for free twice

27:55

a week. And Leon is

27:57

gonna talk about how he got started.

28:00

in the business of professional wrestling. One

28:02

day working out of gym, someone said, hey,

28:05

I've got something you might be interested in. You're

28:08

listening to another classic episode of

28:10

the Steve Austin show only on

28:12

podcast one. Hey,

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right everybody, I appreciate you guys tuning in.

30:20

It's Steve Austin, show of Dauvin and Leon

30:22

White, big band Vader. When we left off,

30:24

we got into a little bit of Vader,

30:27

but we got to get before

30:29

Vader because before he was Vader,

30:31

he started off in the AWA.

30:34

Leon, okay, ex-football player,

30:36

you watch the business a little bit, you dug it,

30:39

so how do you end up getting in the

30:41

business? You know what Benny, after

30:43

the Los Angeles Rams, I

30:46

just got bored. I went back to Boulder and

30:48

got my real estate license and started selling real

30:50

estate and doing a little speculating and building a

30:52

house here and selling the house and I

30:55

got bored out of my mind. I got tired

30:57

of talking to women that wanted to discolor

30:59

the curtain and then discolor the

31:01

tile. My goodness, I

31:03

was about ready to have a

31:06

fit and I went

31:09

down to the local wrestling show down in Denver

31:11

and they had a call down

31:13

there. I mean, Bruiser Brody was on

31:15

it, Stan Hanson, Jerry Brockwell, Kurt Henning,

31:17

Big Scott Hall, down

31:20

in Denver, Colorado at that old Denver Coliseum and

31:22

it held 8,800 people and boy, it was jam-packed

31:24

and that was exciting.

31:30

I'll tell you what, I put on a

31:32

pair of cowboy boots and a cowboy hat

31:34

and I had now ballooned up

31:36

to 400 plus pounds and I

31:38

was in a gym and Buddy, I

31:41

could bench for 600 pounds, I could

31:43

squat a thousand and what I claimed

31:45

to fame is that I could

31:47

take 365 pounds behind my

31:49

neck and jump press that

31:52

weight 12-15 times in

31:55

a rep and I

31:57

used to stop the gym. I mean, I don't care where I

31:59

was, if I was in the gym. didn't speak California. And

32:02

that that this everyone stopped and looked because there

32:04

was no one in the gym that could do

32:06

that. Not that many reps. That

32:09

was just my thing. I don't know why I was

32:11

good at it. I was good at that overhead press

32:14

and they said that's a big dude. And

32:17

that's a lot of weight to be jerking over your head. So I

32:20

was bigger than a horse man and had

32:23

gained a bunch of weight purposely for this

32:25

meeting. I thought hey the bigger the better

32:27

right? Yeah, you're watching guys on TV and

32:29

you're you know, you're thinking they're all six

32:31

eight and all four hundred pounds and it

32:34

TV put size on people and I walked in

32:36

there and really saw the size of people

32:39

and said damn I gained all this weight from us. But

32:43

I remember I did I didn't knock on the

32:45

door Steve and the you know, I just walked

32:47

in and everybody just

32:50

froze and got

32:52

any bruiser grove. He should stood up walked

32:54

over and I had my boots on and broke

32:56

bread. He was about six foot five and

33:00

he had his boots on and so we were about eye

33:02

to eye. He was a little taller than

33:04

me, but I had a big boot on

33:06

so he said what the f***

33:08

you wanted my locker room and

33:11

I said I'm here to get a job. That's what I'm here

33:13

for and I stared him right back in the eye and Brody,

33:16

you know Brody was just knowing the

33:18

basketball period and we all know that

33:20

and he rested peacefully. He turned

33:22

out to be a pretty good friend of mine and

33:25

we we had some places matches together, but

33:29

Greg Gony was there and a guy named Brad Riggins

33:31

was there and they come rushing over and Kurt Hennig

33:33

they came rushing over and I said

33:35

hey man, you can't be in here and I said wait a minute

33:37

man, this is who I am and I live

33:40

right down the road and I played football

33:42

to University of Colorado and I played for

33:44

the Los Angeles Rams and I had my

33:46

Super Bowl ring on and you know, I

33:48

was ready. Right. And Gene

33:50

Reed the promoter and then he rest in

33:52

peace. He said yeah, I know

33:55

who Leon is. We need to talk to this guy

33:57

and he calmed everyone down. So, Brody wouldn't

33:59

sat down. Let me jump in here

34:01

real quickly because first of all, to

34:04

all my fans out there, I'm

34:06

sure you can assume that the

34:08

professional wrestling dressing room is super

34:10

kayfabe. Now you go way

34:12

back about 25 years or 30 years

34:14

when Leon's talking about he first walks

34:16

into this dressing room, you're talking about

34:19

triple kayfabe. I mean, dude,

34:21

you just walked in a badass

34:23

area where the business was protected.

34:26

And if you were just some unbeknownst fan just

34:28

thinking you're going to walk in on a meeting

34:30

or what the boys are doing, it's

34:32

a good way to get your ass handed to

34:35

you. So it was absolutely crazy. So

34:37

what possessed you to even just get the idea

34:39

to go in there and say, hey, I want

34:41

a job? Well,

34:43

like Steve, like I said, I was

34:45

going crazy selling real estate. You

34:48

must have been. Out

34:50

of my mind, and like I said, I got

34:53

a pair of jeans on and a tight t-shirt

34:55

and I was four hundred and fifty pounds. And

34:57

I just said, you know what? I'm going to

34:59

do it. And I stood by that door. I

35:01

stood outside that door for

35:04

an hour, probably at least an hour before I

35:06

had the guts just to push it open or

35:08

open it up and walk in. So what happens?

35:10

What do you think? And when Brody comes up

35:12

to you face to face and you've only seen

35:14

him as a fan sitting in a

35:16

chair, he's in a ring doing the same. And

35:19

of course, Brody is one of my favorite all

35:21

time. And he had that look and that intimidating

35:23

presence that the size and

35:26

again, you're a big man, but you're talking about

35:28

Bruce Brody, the guy you've been seeing on TV.

35:30

So I mean, when he comes walking up to

35:32

you, what are you thinking? I thought, you know

35:34

what? I got my pants straight up. I

35:37

was scared to death, but I wasn't going to show it.

35:40

Yeah. And I stared him right down in

35:42

the eye and said, man, I'm here to get a job. And

35:44

buddy, I was scared to death. My knees

35:47

were shaking. My hands were shaking. And I was

35:49

scared to death. Because like I said,

35:51

you watch wrestling on TV, especially back in those

35:53

days. And you thought

35:55

these guys were just tough. They were crazy

35:57

and tough. And so it. took a lot

35:59

of nerve to do that, but things calmed

36:01

down real quick. Steve and, and, and

36:04

Brad said, listen, let me get a pen and paper

36:06

before, before, before

36:09

something happens. And Brad, there

36:11

he goes. Just, he wrote down his name and number.

36:13

He says, you're serious. Call me. And,

36:15

uh, Greg Donnie says, well,

36:17

we appreciate him coming in. And, uh, and

36:20

Jean, and Jean Reed had come over and shook my

36:22

hand and said, no, no, this is Leon White. He

36:24

was, you know, we had an appointment.

36:26

I didn't think we'd meet in the locker room like

36:28

this. And Jean was getting old,

36:30

but Jean calmed everyone down. Next

36:35

thing I know, man, I'm, I got my bags

36:37

packed and, uh, I'm in my car. I'm on

36:39

my way to Minnesota and, uh, you

36:41

know, Brad Rickens, what a, what a trainer, what a

36:43

career he's had. Cause he's put out some big, big

36:45

names, you know, and I can't

36:48

name them all, but. Yeah, no, he's

36:50

trained a lot of great guys. So,

36:52

but what was training camp like for

36:54

you? Because you always hear the standard.

36:56

Okay. We're going to do Hindu squats

36:58

and pushups. It's all conditioning. What was

37:00

Brad's methodology? I mean, what was it

37:02

learning how to take a bump? Brad

37:04

obviously is known for his Olympic level

37:06

wrestling, uh, grand amateur background show, what

37:08

was his protocol to teach, uh,

37:11

you who are going to become big van beta, but

37:13

right now you still, Leon white. Well,

37:16

buddy, he, he, he broke us in the groups

37:18

and then, you know, there were some kids there

37:20

that, you know, maybe didn't possess the athleticism. And

37:22

he, you know, he, he knew what he was

37:24

doing. He was really good at what he did.

37:27

And we started off with a two mile run and that

37:29

415 pounds that, you know, that was it

37:31

for me. I'd finished

37:33

that two mile run and, and it was like,

37:35

it was time for me to go back to

37:37

the hotel and then in reality, it was just

37:39

the beginning. Right. And then, then we got started

37:41

for a three hour workout and, you know, we,

37:43

we started out with the basics and walking up

37:45

and, and Brad, Brad,

37:48

uh, he liked to shoot

37:50

with us, you know, he wanted to see what you were

37:52

made of and he said, do you have any wrestling skills?

37:54

And, you know, I said, you

37:56

know, no, but I, you know, Brad, if

37:59

you look at it. He's what, five foot eight

38:01

or nine? And you

38:03

say, well, heck, I could handle this guy. But

38:06

the bottom line is, I mean, this guy

38:08

is built like a fire hydrant, built

38:10

like a coke machine and stronger back

38:13

in this particular point in time. He

38:16

was training for the 1980 Olympics and

38:20

then Carter pulled the United States out of it,

38:22

which with cost, Brad, millions of dollars and probably

38:24

that gold medal, because he was the odds on

38:26

favorite to win the gold. Right. And

38:29

this guy wasn't this tough. He was super tough. He

38:32

was five foot eight, five foot nine. He

38:34

might not look like Superman

38:36

standing there in front of you. And

38:39

here I am at six foot four,

38:41

legit, according to that NFL tape and

38:44

400 plus pounds and been throwing

38:46

all this weight around. And I

38:48

said, well, heck, I'm just gonna, I just walked up and

38:50

stood in front of him and he said, pair up. So

38:53

I just walked over to him and thought,

38:55

well, heck, I'll just sit on him around and show him what's

38:57

up. I'm going to keep

38:59

going. This is great. Well, Brad, he was,

39:01

I mean, you, you talked about a wrestling

39:03

fanatic. He had a big, nice

39:06

house, four or five bedroom home. And he

39:08

had a, in Florida, because

39:10

we're talking about Minnesota, enclosed pool, jacuzzi, everything.

39:14

And, you know, he just, he filled it up with

39:16

dirt and cement and just poured that, that, you know,

39:18

that, you know, that,

39:20

you know, that, you know, that,

39:23

you know, that, you know, that, you know, that,

39:25

you know, and just poured that,

39:27

that pool over the cement so he

39:29

could start his wrestling school. And

39:32

I always thought, what a shame. We covered up

39:34

that, that beautiful pool and that beautiful jacuzzi. But

39:37

he didn't leave this little portable, it

39:39

was a, in other words, it was

39:41

a toilet. And what he had done is he'd built a

39:44

little square around the toilet so that,

39:46

you know, he didn't have to go in his house. His wrestlers

39:48

didn't have to go in his house. He was a restroom. Right.

39:51

And, and boy, you know, we locked up and

39:53

we started moving and, you know, I had good

39:55

feet worked and I was kind of pass

39:57

blocking him and really didn't know what I was doing.

40:00

doing and we

40:02

got rougher and rougher and rougher and rougher

40:04

and rougher and the next thing

40:06

me I know man I am

40:08

inside of this bathroom he put my

40:10

head Steve right through that door I

40:12

mean knocked it off of changes cracked

40:15

it my head's bleeding and I'm

40:18

on all fours and my face is staring

40:20

down in the toilet. You

40:25

know what I'm saying he got to the side of me

40:27

grabbed the back of my head and just ran it right

40:29

into that door and boy I'll

40:31

tell you what you talk about an attitude adjustment

40:33

but yeah I got up out of that I

40:35

got up and I was maddering him I kicked

40:38

that door and that door went flying and I

40:40

went over and got in line and said yes

40:42

sir what's next buddy it

40:47

just amazed me I mean this little

40:49

guy just took me in and

40:52

handled me like a rag doll and that

40:54

man was that one of the greatest

40:56

stories I've ever heard in my life

40:58

yes sir what's next and you was

41:00

gonna go there and show Brad Riggins

41:02

what's up and he just

41:04

he manhandled

41:08

me I mean I put up

41:10

a pretty good tuckle and for

41:12

about 10 seconds I think and buddy

41:16

he was just playing with me getting getting his

41:18

feet in position got to the side of me

41:20

and this I mean just ran my head right

41:22

to that door I mean

41:24

blood and busted that door off

41:27

off both his hinges crafted and

41:29

flipped it over and in other words the doors on

41:31

my back and I'm on all fours and I'm staring

41:34

in the toilet and

41:36

the bad thing about it was the guy

41:38

before me had not fleshed the toilet so

41:40

I was at the thousands of episode of

41:42

raw and

41:46

Vince and Hunter was good enough to bring me

41:48

back for that and

41:51

Brock Lesnar and I had never met the

41:53

gentleman and you know Brock is

41:55

a beast and he had been trained by

41:57

Brad Riggins and Brock was kind of looking at

41:59

me I got up and I went

42:01

over and shook the cans and said, man, it's my honor to meet

42:03

you. We started talking about Brad. And

42:06

boy, I brought up this story and he just

42:08

started laughing. He said, Leon, that's the funniest thing

42:11

I've ever heard. He said,

42:13

well, you kind of gave yourself credit. You tried. And

42:15

I said, yeah, I didn't try very long, buddy. Hey,

42:20

were there any other guys that were in

42:23

the class with you that ended up making

42:25

it in the business or making it big

42:27

time? But Rob

42:29

Steiner was down there and he had already went through

42:32

a school. But I think he

42:34

was hanging around Minnesota trying

42:36

to get off the AWA. So he was coming to

42:38

the class. And he

42:41

was kind of helping out Brad.

42:43

He was a student, but he

42:45

was an experienced student. Now, what

42:47

was your thoughts early on on

42:49

Steiner? Because man, that dude,

42:52

you talk about compact, dense, muscular,

42:54

and super strong, and a good

42:56

shooter. What was your impressions

42:58

of Rick Steiner early on? Well, it

43:00

was Rob, not Rick. And I'd say that.

43:02

Well, I know it was Rob, but he

43:04

would change his name to Rick. Because their

43:06

name was Rob Steiner, but it was Rick

43:08

Steiner. So anyway, so Rob Steiner. Yeah. Well,

43:10

if you just think about

43:13

that story I just told you, and

43:15

Rob, Rick was a heck

43:17

of a college wrestler too. He was an

43:19

All-American. He didn't go as far as Brad

43:21

did. So I kind of had

43:24

a newfound respect for anybody that

43:26

was a wrestler, whether it was

43:28

high school, college, or especially the

43:30

Olympics. And he was a nice

43:32

guy. And he was very helpful,

43:35

very destructive. We

43:37

got along good. But all

43:39

the cockiness in me was gone. And I

43:42

was there to learn and work hard. But

43:44

he, what a physical

43:47

specimen. My God, back in that day,

43:49

just like you said, compact, strong, quick,

43:51

just kind of cool. I remember seeing

43:53

him. I guess the first time I

43:55

started seeing Rick Steiner, I

43:57

think he was still going as Rob Rick

43:59

Steiner back. in Power Pro Mid-South, I think it

44:01

was working for Bill Watts. And I saw this

44:03

guy and I was like, Jesus Christ. Five-eleven

44:06

maybe and maybe 250, but

44:09

I mean the most dense 250 pounds and strong

44:12

as hell. You could just see

44:14

what he was doing on television, but just

44:17

totally impressive. So you guys are there at

44:19

the school. How much training did Brad put

44:21

you through before you got into your first

44:23

match inside the squared circle? Well,

44:26

a lot of what Brad did, first thing

44:28

he wanted to do, see if you had

44:30

what it took and it was all

44:33

about physicality. In other words, when

44:35

we wrestled, we shot. It was

44:38

just conditioning. He'd do squats, he'd run you,

44:40

he'd put you on the bike, would hit

44:42

the ropes, would do pushups. So if it

44:44

was that type of thing. And

44:46

if you got through, if you survived

44:48

that, and then he started teaching wrestling,

44:51

but he wasn't gonna waste his time and teach

44:53

everyone. Like you said, it wasn't just K-Fade back

44:55

then, it was triple K-Fade. So he

44:57

wasn't gonna give up the business till he thought you

44:59

were gonna make it. And you know, you'd

45:01

be the class of 15, 20 kids and that

45:05

would dwindle down to four or five pretty quick. And

45:08

I'm sure Brad got his money upfront,

45:10

so it didn't matter. He

45:12

narrowed it down and I made that cut and

45:15

I wasn't going nowhere. And

45:18

then we started coaching and he

45:20

started coaching wrestling and psychology and like

45:22

I said, I can't say enough about

45:24

Brad Riggins and his ability to coach.

45:26

And I know Pergening was trained by

45:28

him, Rick Rude, Scott Hall

45:31

was there. You remember a guy named Berserker, he

45:33

kind of had a gimmick like Brody? Yeah. Okay,

45:36

he was down there. I mean, the list just

45:38

goes on and on about who Brad Riggins has

45:40

trained. You know, Brock Lesnar and on

45:43

and on and on. But I went

45:45

over there and I remember Brad had

45:47

told Bern Gagna. So Bern Gagna and Greg

45:49

Gagna actually came over to the camp and

45:52

we put on a little show for him. I

45:54

gave him a little five minute match and was pressing

45:56

people over my head and suplexing and

45:58

moving and hitting the road. And they said, well, how

46:00

much do you weigh? And I said, well, I'm about

46:03

420 now. I've lost some weight since I

46:05

got here. And doing a

46:07

couple of things off the top

46:09

rope. And so they

46:12

were impressed. And

46:15

I remember Bernshake and Brad Sand saying, good

46:17

job. We can use this guy. AWA

46:20

was running strong. And they had one

46:22

heck of a talent roster, Steve. I

46:25

mean, they had Michael Hayes and the free

46:27

birds. They had Shawn Michaels,

46:29

Shawn and Michael. They had Kurt Hennings,

46:32

Scott Hall, Stan Hansen, Bruce Rodie. I

46:34

mean, that list just kept going on and on

46:37

of the talent that they had there

46:39

to AWA at the time. And they were doing pretty

46:41

good business. And that was back when

46:43

we had the regional territories. New

46:46

York had their territory. And the AWA had

46:48

their territory, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

46:50

But they were

46:52

probably doing 20, 25 days a month. And

46:55

I was getting about half of those was

46:57

happy to get it. Well, man,

46:59

when you mentioned those names, Leon, I mean, just

47:01

as far as a couple of them, you said

47:03

a hell of a group of names there, a

47:05

lot of Hall of Famers, but with the road

47:07

warriors and then, you know, bam, bam, part

47:10

of the free birds, Hansen and Brody

47:12

there, man, that's

47:14

a hell of a damn roster. So

47:17

who you're working with in your first

47:19

matches in the AWA. About

47:21

the Kurt Hennings Hall of Famers, Scott Hall

47:23

of Famers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stan

47:27

Hansen and Bruiser Brody and Jerry

47:29

Blackwell. Yeah. I mean, Jerry, I

47:31

mean, he was five foot 10, you know, and

47:34

big, big, big guy, but he

47:36

was 400 and God, you know, nearly

47:39

500 pounds and that guy could drop kick.

47:42

So, I mean, that was a, for me,

47:45

it was a great place to watch because there wasn't,

47:47

once I got out of that camp, it

47:49

was kind of like, you know, hey, this guy

47:51

is not just strong, he's real strong and he's

47:54

real dangerous because he's green and he wants to

47:56

do well. So first thing they did was

47:58

stick me with... And

48:01

it wasn't about, hey, I'm going

48:03

to teach you some psychology. But Bruiser Brody

48:05

just beat the hell out of me for

48:07

three months. And I

48:09

was black and blue. And

48:12

I said, you want a Bruiser Brody

48:14

story? Yeah. Okay. We're

48:16

in Milwaukee and they're letting a

48:18

whole lot of people. And Brody

48:21

was barking around the ring and I'm standing

48:23

there looking stupid. And the referee's

48:25

standing here barking and doing circles. And he

48:27

walks over and says, kid, just relax.

48:31

Stay right here. I'll be back. And

48:33

we were in that Green Bay, Wisconsin indoor

48:35

auditorium and it must have held 50,000 people.

48:40

Brody's barking around all the people and then took off

48:42

and went all the way to the top of that

48:44

stadium and was doing bark. And

48:46

somehow worked his way back down, got

48:49

back in the ring, walked over to

48:51

me and I'm standing there like an idiot. The bell

48:53

ain't been ringing and then booted

48:56

me in the mouth. And then let

48:58

me tell you what, it was not a working boot.

49:01

I took the hit on the back and

49:04

he had a chair in his hand and

49:06

the chair obviously had Milwaukee Chair

49:08

Company on that chair. Okay.

49:12

And it was engraved in

49:14

that chair and he hit me in

49:16

the back right in front of

49:18

the referee because his intent was to get disqualified and

49:21

that was it. He didn't

49:23

like something. He was upset about something

49:25

because I remember Nick Bockwinkle was the

49:27

booker and him and

49:29

Nick had had some words before the match.

49:31

Maybe it's because he had to work with

49:33

me, you know, because it just, I was

49:36

just greener than green. I don't know. But

49:38

he booted me in the face. I went

49:40

down. I got up. He

49:42

took that chair and hit me in the back. Steve,

49:44

I've never been hit so hard in my

49:46

life and I'm talking about throughout, you know,

49:49

as a rookie with the Los Angeles Rams. Do you

49:51

remember a guy named Hacksaw Reynolds? Yeah.

49:55

Okay. Well, Hacksaw was just a man. I mean, he was

49:57

six foot two and 275 pounds.

50:00

And boy, he got right in

50:02

front of me and he came in on a blitz

50:04

in the past and he hit me

50:06

right under the chin and knocked me out cold.

50:08

And I thought that I'll never get hit

50:10

harder than that in my life and Bruiser bro

50:12

to hit me with that chair. And

50:15

it literally knocked me out. I went down to my

50:17

face and I was laying there in the ring and

50:19

I couldn't move. I opened

50:21

my eyes and I actually

50:23

took my fingers and to make sure they were open

50:25

and I still couldn't see all I saw was black.

50:29

I went into the locker room and Kurt, Kurt

50:32

Hitting who was the, you know, just

50:34

in my book was one of the

50:36

all time great individuals. Just funny, fun

50:38

to be around. I drove with him

50:40

and Scott and I had developed a

50:43

friendship back then and Kurt Hitting and

50:46

Scott came over and said, let me see your back. And

50:49

he starts laughing and he got everyone around

50:51

there and on my back was in printed

50:53

the Milwaukee chair company. And

50:55

he had hit me so hard that lettering

50:58

had made an impression on my back and

51:00

you literally could read it. So

51:05

I'll tell you what, that I've never been hit

51:08

harder than that in my life. And so from

51:10

from Bruiser, I went to Stan Hansen and

51:12

you know, that wasn't much better. And then I

51:14

finally got to Jerry Blackwell and he

51:17

had a softer, softer side to him.

51:19

He was a big tough guy. Don't get me wrong

51:21

with, you know, he started teaching me a little bit.

51:23

And from there I started learning, you know,

51:25

my math just started improving and. Well

51:28

let's go back to the Bruiser Brody story when he

51:30

when he select with the chair after the big boot

51:33

to the gourd. Usually

51:35

there's a little conversation that happens after

51:38

the goings on in a match. Did

51:40

you say, hey, what's up or

51:42

shake hands or say you just

51:45

go on about your business because

51:48

obviously you went out there thinking he's going to work

51:50

a match and not so much. Well,

51:52

no, he came up to me. He came

51:54

up to me and stuck his hand out

51:56

and said, Leon, that wasn't about you. I

51:58

apologize. I hope you're all. I mean, he

52:01

wasn't apologetic, but he explained it that there's

52:03

some things going on and and

52:05

you know what I was in no position I mean again,

52:07

this is this was bruiser Brody He was you

52:10

know making big money over in Japan and really was

52:12

doing this part-time For Vern

52:14

Gania on his days off from Japan But

52:17

he had a full schedule with Baba as

52:19

did Stan so Stan and Brody would come

52:21

together And you

52:23

know Stan Hanson in his prime and bruiser

52:26

Brody his prime Let me tell you what

52:28

there there was two mean cats

52:30

I mean they they could get in the ring

52:32

and flag gets a job done and I

52:34

can't say without cussing So I'm gonna let it go go

52:36

ahead get a double. Oh, they can

52:38

fight or climb a tree Let me tell you what

52:41

bruiser Brody his prime just looks five 340 pounds and

52:45

No fat on him and you know, he

52:48

was in shape, you know, he he

52:50

didn't drink He didn't you know and Stan

52:52

the same way Stan Stan was a you

52:55

know Wasn't quite as tall as Brody, but about

52:57

340 and then tell you what Manny They

52:59

that that was a tough job You're

53:02

listening to another classic episode of

53:04

the Steve Austin show only on

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podcast one. I Love

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One Get One deal. Only in

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the McDonald's app. Limited time only

54:20

at participating McDonald's. Valid ones per

54:22

day. Must opt into rewards. Bottom

54:24

up. How

54:55

were those matches with Hanson in the

54:57

early days? How

55:24

were those matches with Hanson in

55:26

the early days? How

55:54

many matches with Hanson in the early days? what

56:00

you do. In other words, there

56:02

was a definite respect. In

56:04

other words, I paid my dues, I gave

56:06

my respect and I learned. And once I

56:08

got to the point where I felt I

56:10

was confident in the ring to have a

56:12

match, then I started demanding to be given

56:15

one. And if it didn't happen well, then

56:17

you would have to prove it. Yeah, but

56:20

that's the process. Yeah, go and pay your

56:22

dues. You're going to take some shellacans as

56:25

part of that process. And along with that paying

56:27

the dues comes the learning curve. And then all

56:29

of a sudden you start equaling

56:31

things out. It's like, okay, now here's what

56:33

the story is. All due respect. Yeah, I

56:36

know who you are, but this is who

56:38

I'm turning into right now. So who came

56:40

up with that? What did you start off

56:42

with there? Leon, were you the baby bull

56:45

then or bull power? I

56:47

started off actually in college

56:49

as the baby bull. There was a senior

56:51

all American lineman at the University of Colorado.

56:53

He just called me the baby bull. And

56:56

then as I got to be a sophomore

56:58

and a junior and a senior, it went

57:00

from the baby bull to bull power. And

57:02

then my senior year,

57:06

they just called me the bull. And

57:08

so I naturally took that nickname from

57:10

college football and thought, hey, the bull

57:12

power. And I got some leather straps

57:15

around my wrists and shaved

57:17

my head and put, I was going

57:19

bald anyways up top. So I got

57:21

those horns and kind of

57:23

took that idea off the road warriors a little bit and

57:26

just tried to come up with something. And so

57:29

I was started out in

57:31

the NBA as the bull

57:33

power or just a bull. Okay.

57:36

So the road warriors are there that when they, when

57:38

they saw you do the haircut gimmick, were they saying,

57:40

Hey, this is gimmick infringement or were they cool with

57:42

what you were doing? They didn't say

57:45

a word, buddy. I mean, you know, they were,

57:47

you know, the road warriors were

57:49

number one tag team in the world for

57:51

a long, long time. And they

57:53

were making a ton of money and I always

57:56

got along with animal and hawk. So they

57:58

never said anything. You know

58:00

what, my hair was so light and the

58:03

hawk was pretty similar to mine and then

58:05

Joe's was different. But

58:07

I remember having a conversation with the hawk. I

58:09

said, you know, with the way my hair is

58:11

receiving and getting thin, I really

58:13

don't have anything else to do other than shave it.

58:16

And I tried that and that didn't look good. So

58:19

I grew the horns back and they

58:21

were fine with it. They were, you know, again,

58:23

they were making a ton of money on the

58:26

gimmick sales, the merchandise, and they were they were

58:28

getting paid a lot of money. You

58:31

know, it just didn't affect them. And it

58:33

just wasn't a problem for them. You know,

58:35

did you see Shawn

58:37

Michaels and Marty Gennady were there as the

58:40

rockers, midnight rockers. Did you

58:42

see greatness on those kids at an

58:44

early age or did you just say there

58:46

was a couple of pain in the ass

58:48

guys who were pretty athletic and all the girls

58:50

liked them? Well, you know what? That

58:53

was the case. They were a pain in

58:55

the ass and they did have the girls.

58:58

Let me tell you what, Shawn and Marty had the, you

59:00

know, they had a following

59:02

of little girls just, you

59:05

know, little 15, 16, 17, 18 year old

59:07

women just go from town to town and

59:09

big crowds came. They were talented

59:12

though. And you

59:14

know, specifically Shawn, he

59:17

had been in the business at that time, less than

59:19

a year. You know,

59:21

he could have a great match in the sleep

59:23

and he had the long hair back then. You

59:26

know, he had the blonde hair, blue eyed, pretty boy.

59:28

And then buddy, let me tell you what he could

59:30

flat go. You know, it

59:32

was impressive to see Shawn at that early

59:35

age. You know, it was just

59:37

natural for him. Marty

59:39

obviously was the second part of that tag

59:41

team and it was very good at himself.

59:44

And you know, he looked good and was tan. But

59:47

I'll tell you what, it was impressive

59:49

to watch him. You know, and then again, that whole

59:51

crew was Hall of Fame. Kurt Hennings in the Hall

59:53

of Fame. Oh, I know what you thought about Kurt.

59:56

I know you struck up a friendship with Scott and

59:58

he just got into the Hall of Fame. of

1:00:00

Fame and of course I followed Scott from way back

1:00:03

and man a very very

1:00:05

talented guy but what were your early

1:00:07

impressions of the Freebirds? Michael Hayes was

1:00:10

was to me you know

1:00:12

he was the kind of the leader of that group and

1:00:14

of course you had Bam Bam who was a big talented

1:00:16

man. The third part of

1:00:18

that group I forget his name and I apologize

1:00:20

I'm sure you. Buddy Roberts. Yeah

1:00:23

okay to me they you know

1:00:25

what of all the talent that was there to

1:00:27

me the Freebirds was the best act on the show. I

1:00:30

mean from and I'm talking about from the point

1:00:33

and especially Michael Hayes from the point

1:00:35

of walking out the curtain and

1:00:38

getting in that ring and and putting

1:00:40

on a show and we're talking

1:00:42

about tag team specialists they always worked

1:00:44

six minutes and then I'll tell

1:00:46

you what I was I was a

1:00:49

mark watching these guys work and

1:00:51

Bam Bam was what he was he was

1:00:53

right around 300 pounds and yeah probably I

1:00:55

don't know six three or four and

1:00:58

Buddy he could move he could flat get it

1:01:00

and he'd hit those ropes and move and they

1:01:02

they had their act down from Japan. Did you

1:01:05

run for Gordy any over in Japan later

1:01:07

on? No I never hooked up

1:01:09

with him I was with the no keys

1:01:11

he was with Baba. Him and Dr. Deaf

1:01:13

hooked up quite a bit but for

1:01:16

the era they were ahead of their time not

1:01:19

only work in the ring but the whole thing

1:01:21

the music the hair the look and

1:01:24

everybody else was kind of step behind but

1:01:27

I mean of all that

1:01:29

talent there you know

1:01:31

and I'm you know you talk about bruiser building

1:01:33

stand we've been through this list I thought I

1:01:36

thought the best of the best of that that

1:01:39

group in that era were the

1:01:41

Freebirds. When they came to Dallas

1:01:44

I was playing football at North Texas State

1:01:46

University I used to drive up to the

1:01:48

Sportatorium and drink beer to

1:01:50

watch the the Von Eriks fight the Freebirds

1:01:53

and that damn Michael Hayes used to piss

1:01:55

me off to no ends which he was

1:01:57

doing his job and he's one of my

1:01:59

favorites of all. all time and he talked

1:02:01

trash all day long. Then they

1:02:03

backed it up in the ring and he was

1:02:05

a heat sick and missile on the microphone and

1:02:07

then you had big Gordy in there laying the

1:02:09

heat down. And Buddy Roberts was that guy that

1:02:11

everybody thought they could kick his ass if they

1:02:13

just got their hands on him. And

1:02:16

it was just pandemonium there and sported to him. So

1:02:18

I was a big fan of the free birds. Surprise,

1:02:21

they're not in the Hall of Fame yet, but. Talking

1:02:23

about the Hall of Fame, they've got

1:02:25

the four horsemen in there, right? So they

1:02:27

have the ability to put a

1:02:29

group of people in like a tag team. And

1:02:33

I know Michael is Mr. Hayes and

1:02:35

his associate, which is WVF, I believe he

1:02:37

worked for him. And I don't

1:02:40

know why that had happened because the fabulous

1:02:42

free birds are, wow. They

1:02:44

were 20 years ahead of their time

1:02:46

and could flat entertain, put on the

1:02:49

show. And probably of

1:02:51

the three, Bambam was probably the best

1:02:53

worker. Yes, but it wasn't about individual

1:02:55

work. It was about that team effort

1:02:57

in the show. The bottom line

1:02:59

was entertainment and they flat got a job

1:03:01

done. But I was really impressed with

1:03:04

Michael and the look. And like you

1:03:06

said, he could get it on on the mic, but.

1:03:09

How was Vernon to work for as a

1:03:11

promoter? Well, my mom always told me if

1:03:13

you don't have nothing good to say, you probably shouldn't say

1:03:15

it, but. You can't

1:03:17

take good money. Yeah.

1:03:20

And if you were

1:03:22

on the show and he did well, I

1:03:25

thought he was fair, especially to me just starting

1:03:27

out. And Greg

1:03:32

Donnell was actually running the

1:03:34

show and Vernon kind of took a back

1:03:36

seat. And then there

1:03:39

was a gentleman by the name of Big

1:03:41

Otto Vontz that had

1:03:44

actually had the world tied on. We're talking

1:03:46

going back now, this was one generation of

1:03:48

AWA talent. And then you went back to

1:03:50

Andre and Hulk Hogan and that group with

1:03:52

the AWA. And then they

1:03:54

all migrated up north up to a

1:03:56

district man in the WWF at that

1:03:58

time. And then he refilled it

1:04:01

again with this new group. And

1:04:03

what I haven't mentioned, the road warriors, they

1:04:05

were part of this group too. But

1:04:07

he turned me on to a big

1:04:10

auto Vons and I jumped up to chance. I

1:04:12

mean, I looked at that roster and said, well,

1:04:14

I believe in myself and I believe I could

1:04:16

crack that roster and become a main inventor there

1:04:18

at the RWA. But I liked the idea of

1:04:21

going drinking some cold beer and getting over Europe

1:04:23

and starting out fresh and getting

1:04:25

another style under my belt. So I took

1:04:28

that off a big auto, made me an offer

1:04:30

to come over there and offered me guaranteed money.

1:04:32

And while I was gone and while I was

1:04:35

over there in Austria, and boy, it

1:04:37

was a beautiful, beautiful time in my life. And

1:04:39

I had a lot of fun. So coming out

1:04:41

of the coming out of AWA, you'd been there

1:04:44

roughly two years. And so you were coming along

1:04:46

pretty good as a hand in the ring. Yes,

1:04:48

sir. And then you get to call

1:04:50

auto Vons, wants you to come down there to the

1:04:52

CWA. And you say, hey, man, this is going to

1:04:54

be a good move for you. And

1:04:56

I also felt this is a good move for you

1:04:59

to get a little bit more learning and get a

1:05:01

little bit more experience. Well, the way it was put

1:05:03

to me was Leon, hey, look at

1:05:05

the talent we got in front of you. And

1:05:07

we believe that you could become something

1:05:09

special. But there's

1:05:11

a long list here. And again,

1:05:14

you're talking about the road warriors, the fabulous

1:05:16

free person. Just to be on

1:05:19

that lineup, to get on that card with

1:05:21

something else, the road warriors, the free birds,

1:05:23

Jerry Blackwell, Stan Hanson, the Roser

1:05:26

Brode, and the Curt

1:05:28

Hennings. Well, everything you mentioned is the main

1:05:30

event match. So where were you on the

1:05:32

card? I was going to say

1:05:34

this for a little bit later, but myself

1:05:36

and Scott Hall and Greg Darnia, they

1:05:39

were playing up the Ram thing a lot

1:05:41

real big and they would tag

1:05:43

us up and I would get into the main event in

1:05:45

that aspect. And

1:05:48

we fought Larry Sibisco and

1:05:50

Masasito and another big Japanese

1:05:53

kid. And that's how Masasito

1:05:55

worked with me and Masa had the

1:05:57

chin to tear. himself got into a

1:05:59

little trouble. I don't want to get

1:06:01

into it. But they spent a

1:06:03

little time in the who's gallon and they

1:06:06

got out and Mossa, you know, he was in,

1:06:08

tell you what, he was eating in prison because

1:06:10

he came out of prison. He was about 300

1:06:12

pounds and muscled up. He was

1:06:14

in that gym every day. He's

1:06:17

just, you know, not so what about

1:06:20

about five, nine and 300 pounds and

1:06:22

was just solid as

1:06:24

your wall. You're sitting next to him

1:06:26

and he would just walk hard. Scary

1:06:29

looking dude. And we

1:06:31

got in there and, you know, he saw me

1:06:33

move and lock up and I

1:06:35

grabbed him, snatched him over my head, dressed him a couple

1:06:37

of times. And this was really

1:06:39

basically I had wrestled him. I was working

1:06:41

full time for auto and had come back

1:06:43

for Christmas and did a couple of shots

1:06:45

for for Vern. And I happened

1:06:48

to go to it was in

1:06:50

Las Vegas and there was a TV match. And

1:06:53

so a Nokia Mossa

1:06:55

was then working

1:06:57

for a Nokia and said, hey,

1:06:59

we got to get this guy. I mean,

1:07:01

I guess they had tried to give the

1:07:03

ultimate warrior the Vader gimmick and

1:07:05

offered him the helmet and offered him the

1:07:07

spot. They had the Vader

1:07:09

gimmick already established. They were looking

1:07:11

for the right person to put

1:07:14

the Vader gimmick on. We're talking

1:07:16

about Antonio Anoki and New Japan

1:07:18

and Mossa Sayid was basically scouting

1:07:20

you. Well, yes, sir. That's right.

1:07:22

And what they had done is

1:07:24

they offered it to the warrior

1:07:26

and then brought him over and got him in

1:07:29

some matches. And the thing

1:07:31

about, in my opinion, in all

1:07:33

of wrestling, but specifically in Japan,

1:07:35

see, athleticism plays a

1:07:37

big part. These Japanese are

1:07:40

as good as any any wrestling.

1:07:42

Any wrestlers are wrestling in the

1:07:44

world and maybe better. The

1:07:46

discipline standpoint, the matches are

1:07:49

longer. They're entertaining. The finishes

1:07:51

are intricate and technicality. Yes,

1:07:53

but it's based on athleticism

1:07:57

and the ultimate warrior. I mean, he

1:07:59

was. He looked fantastic, but maybe it

1:08:01

was a little bit awkward at times. He didn't

1:08:03

have, these Japanese guys

1:08:05

are doing intricate moves and spots.

1:08:08

Man, going back to the day, let me jump in

1:08:10

here, Lee. I'm going back to the day and of

1:08:12

course, all of the warrior just went

1:08:14

to the Hall of Fame. Unfortunately, just passed

1:08:17

away. I used to pay my money to

1:08:19

go see him down there in Dallas, Texas

1:08:21

as a dingo warrior. But

1:08:23

that gimmick with his work style,

1:08:25

with his work rate, not

1:08:28

so much. Well, not over there. Not over

1:08:30

there. Yeah, these guys were, all

1:08:33

these guys, you started with a Nokia

1:08:35

to Choshu and Chono and

1:08:37

Muta and Mazzala. These

1:08:39

guys were just good wrestlers. And you're

1:08:41

talking about, they lived, eat and grieved

1:08:43

it. I mean, they had dojo set

1:08:45

up and they had sleeping bags. They

1:08:48

slept on the floor. The

1:08:51

ring was right there and you'd have 30 guys

1:08:53

sleeping around the ring. They'd wake up and fold

1:08:55

up their sleeping bags and go to work. Hey,

1:08:58

let's talk about that a little bit, Leon. I mean, the

1:09:00

young boys down there, as we used to call them back

1:09:02

in, I don't know if they still call them that, but

1:09:04

I mean, the guys coming to the camp, the

1:09:06

guys that were training on their way up. You

1:09:08

talk about paying some dues, mister. Now, and

1:09:11

you paid your dues and I certainly paid

1:09:13

mine. And the system changed a lot.

1:09:16

But man, those guys, they start

1:09:18

off at such a young age

1:09:20

and are so regimented in their

1:09:22

training and the repetition and shoot

1:09:25

style training. I mean, you

1:09:27

can't help but be technically good and have

1:09:29

a vast amount of respect for the business

1:09:31

because man, you're scrubbing floors to doing everything

1:09:33

else to pay your dues to get your

1:09:36

foot in the door. Yes, sir.

1:09:38

Cleaning toilets and scrubbing floors, cooking

1:09:40

dinner, throwing shop and washing clothes,

1:09:42

I mean, it's A to Z

1:09:44

over there. Anyway, you know

1:09:47

what, may the warrior rest in

1:09:49

peace and my prayers go out to his family

1:09:51

and his wife and two beautiful daughters. But

1:09:54

that gimmick just didn't work out for

1:09:56

him. And so that match that I

1:09:58

had at the end of the year. Vegas with Masa when

1:10:01

I was in Europe. Next

1:10:03

thing I know, Noki had sent over a guy

1:10:05

named Sal Hatori who was a referee and

1:10:08

he came over there and you know

1:10:10

I don't welcome him with open hands

1:10:12

and I

1:10:14

believe we were in Hanover and I was in

1:10:16

a match and next thing I know you know

1:10:18

I got an offer from him to go over

1:10:20

full time and work for Noki and you know

1:10:22

it wasn't just more money it was so fancy

1:10:24

more money and Big Ano he

1:10:26

got pretty mad and had a few words with Hatori

1:10:29

and said that you know I treated you like a

1:10:31

gentleman and you're you're over here trying

1:10:33

to steal my top hand because I was

1:10:35

I was Otto's world champion at the time

1:10:37

and it was a hard situation

1:10:39

for me because I love Big Otto and I loved

1:10:41

Europe but you know I'm a young

1:10:43

man and trying to buy a house for my

1:10:45

family and feed my kid and so

1:10:48

the situation where you know I just

1:10:50

couldn't say no and so I was off

1:10:52

to Japan. Yeah but that's the way it is

1:10:54

Leon I mean you know you're always looking to

1:10:56

get to the to the next level and

1:10:58

for you it was going to be New

1:11:00

Japan more money and you had the three

1:11:02

world titles that you got at the CWA

1:11:04

with Otto Vance and I watched a couple

1:11:06

of y'all's matches y'all had some bust-ass brutal

1:11:08

matches how was it working with Big Otto?

1:11:10

Big Otto you know what

1:11:13

he was slowing down a little bit at

1:11:15

that time yeah he smoked a lot

1:11:17

and he drank a lot of beer and I think smoking

1:11:19

hurt him more than anything but a big

1:11:22

strong mobile guy and we had some

1:11:24

good matches and talk about a baby

1:11:26

face he was he

1:11:28

was just over like like coke Hogan in his

1:11:30

prime like you and your pride when

1:11:32

Steve Austin came through that curtain in

1:11:34

the WWE that crowd exploded I'd never

1:11:37

Steve I was standing right backstage one

1:11:39

time you walk through the curtain they

1:11:41

played that music and that glass broke

1:11:43

and bam I mean I

1:11:45

got goosebumps that crowd was so loud and

1:11:47

that's that's the type you know it

1:11:50

wasn't a stone stone cold Steve Austin pop

1:11:52

but let me tell you what Big Otto was over in

1:11:55

Europe and it was the largest company in Europe so we

1:11:57

had crowds of 15 and 20 and 25 5,000

1:12:00

people in Bremen in that big

1:12:02

auditorium. And a lot of times they

1:12:04

worked out of a tent. And I'm talking about a tent

1:12:06

that would hold 5,000 people. How

1:12:09

was the lifestyle there? Because I mean, was there

1:12:11

a lot of travel or were y'all basically working

1:12:13

the same tent shows night after

1:12:15

night and the people were coming to

1:12:17

y'all? Or did y'all take it out

1:12:19

on the road? That's the other thing

1:12:21

about it. You've set up camp. Yeah.

1:12:23

You talk about the differences and the

1:12:25

experiences that I've, you know, from Japan

1:12:27

to Mexico to Europe to America and

1:12:30

just the different lifestyles and cultures. I

1:12:33

went over there in the big auto. He had

1:12:35

bought me a little BMW and, you know, riding

1:12:37

on that Autobahn and that BMW going 150 miles

1:12:39

an hour. That was, there was no speed limit

1:12:42

on that Autobahn. That was a kick in the

1:12:44

butt. Let me tell you, you're late for work.

1:12:46

You could get there pretty quick. Let me tell

1:12:48

you. You

1:12:50

know, the thing about, the thing about

1:12:52

Germany is slow drivers stay out of

1:12:54

the left lane because it's the Autobahn

1:12:56

and that's the protocol. In the

1:12:58

United States, people are so damn stupid. They won't stay

1:13:01

out of the left lane. They want to lolly gag

1:13:03

here because they got their head up their ass. In

1:13:05

Germany, they know how to drive or you

1:13:07

will get your ass run off the road.

1:13:09

Buddy, and you know what? That last statement,

1:13:11

if you're in that left lane and you're

1:13:13

doing a, you're doing 120, that ain't fast

1:13:15

enough. Someone going 150 or 60 will run

1:13:17

right into the back to you. Yeah. They,

1:13:20

when they have a wreck over there, let me tell you, it's

1:13:22

like a train wreck. To me, that was

1:13:24

more fun, more, that was a kicking ass going to

1:13:26

work every day and that little BMW and revving

1:13:29

that thing up and getting going, but 140, 150

1:13:32

and just like a kid in the candy

1:13:34

store. I had a ball, but they

1:13:36

wrestled rounds over there during this era,

1:13:38

over in Europe. And the

1:13:40

referee was an integral part of the match

1:13:42

where they had four or five,

1:13:44

they had three minute round. Sometimes they had four

1:13:46

minute round. Sometimes they had five minute round sometimes.

1:13:49

So the end of the first round, whatever it was, it

1:13:51

didn't matter how long it was, but you

1:13:54

know, the referee would walk over to the,

1:13:56

the announcer's table and act like he was

1:13:58

doing something. The baby face would of course

1:14:00

turn his. back and to heal me would

1:14:02

walk up and smack or kick or hit

1:14:04

the baby face in the back. And

1:14:07

then I would walk back to my corner referee,

1:14:09

turn around because of crowd reaction and I just

1:14:11

put my hands up and go, well, hey, I

1:14:13

didn't do anything. You didn't see nothing. And the

1:14:15

baby face is complaining. So that goes on for

1:14:17

a couple of times. And

1:14:19

then finally the baby face, you know, similar

1:14:21

situation will occur. You know, it's all set

1:14:24

up. The baby face will

1:14:26

get you back. You know, you'd turn your back

1:14:28

on the baby face and he'd

1:14:30

come over and smack you. But

1:14:32

the ref would catch him, of course. Yeah. And boy,

1:14:34

you know, some of these big matches, you

1:14:37

know, I'd get away with it two or three times and

1:14:39

then the baby face get caught and he'd get fined. He'd

1:14:41

get a red card. And that

1:14:43

red card, referee hold up that red card

1:14:45

and then walk over to the announcer and

1:14:47

say that the baby face, whomever it was,

1:14:50

would be fined a thousand marks. And

1:14:52

those are German Deutsch marks. And that's

1:14:55

a lot of money. And the first thing

1:14:57

you know, then these Germans would be all beared up

1:14:59

and they'd stand up and they'd have

1:15:01

their girl with them. And they're, you know, Germans are

1:15:03

proud people and boy, they

1:15:05

would pay that fine. And so the

1:15:07

deal was we were, we were not

1:15:10

only wrestling and entertaining, but we were

1:15:12

working the Clarniac collecting, collecting and running.

1:15:17

You know, we'd get some matches, some of those

1:15:19

big matches against the top baby faces. You know,

1:15:21

I could set that thing up and, you know,

1:15:23

with the referee and the baby face and we'd

1:15:25

get four or five

1:15:27

thousand marks and they'd be

1:15:29

paid for, you know, of course, the baby

1:15:31

face would, you'd look to the crowd

1:15:33

and somebody had said, I'll pay that fine. And

1:15:36

we'd split that money after the match. But, you

1:15:38

know, that was good extra money back then. I

1:15:41

thought that was a, I don't know.

1:15:44

I kind of liked the round thing. The, I

1:15:46

like the fact that you guys were working within

1:15:48

the work. So tell me about the round system.

1:15:50

I, you know, I watched a lot of, you

1:15:53

know, world of sports stuff and I've talked to

1:15:55

Steve Riegel and some other guys who did the

1:15:57

Autobahn's thing over in Germany. What,

1:15:59

what'd you like about? the round system obviously

1:16:01

I'm assuming you get a good cardiovascular break

1:16:03

because I would I would love to have

1:16:05

that break but how did it play into

1:16:08

just from a strategic standpoint as far as psychology and

1:16:10

working on the match? You know you kind of didn't

1:16:12

think of it as a break and sometimes you know

1:16:14

if you needed a break you could take a break

1:16:16

and that was a big point if you were doing

1:16:19

you were doing seven eight rounds at five minutes

1:16:22

and you get that minute and you

1:16:24

would you get your corner and breathe and you

1:16:26

know get a little water and get a towel

1:16:28

on your face and then other times on the

1:16:30

shorter two and three minute rounds you know you

1:16:32

would do what we did and get some money

1:16:35

but I kind of liked it I think if

1:16:38

it was introduced right here in America

1:16:40

that you know maybe one match per

1:16:42

card it might be

1:16:44

something there might be a good experiment

1:16:47

to see how people took it. Well

1:16:49

let me ask you this okay now

1:16:51

I'm thinking because we're fixing to start

1:16:53

graduating into the New Japan stuff when

1:16:56

you really turned into Vader because right

1:16:58

now you were still what who you

1:17:00

wrestling at for what was your name

1:17:03

there with Otto? The Blair or Bull

1:17:05

Power. Okay you're the Bull Power now

1:17:07

had you graduated yet to that vicious

1:17:09

very stiff in-ring work style that you

1:17:12

would be known all around

1:17:14

the world for in Japan yet? Yeah you

1:17:16

know I you know again started out for

1:17:18

me with Brad Riggins and you know we

1:17:21

go back to that story where he put

1:17:23

my head through that that door and then

1:17:25

the way Brad Riggins talked was simply hey

1:17:27

I'm gonna see how tough you are before

1:17:30

I start teaching you anything and that goes

1:17:32

back to what you said they wasn't just

1:17:34

K-fade it was triple K-fade right and then

1:17:36

then going to the AWA with with Bruiser

1:17:39

Brody and you know I just you know

1:17:41

my first match was with Bruiser Brody. Well

1:17:44

you're basically fighting for your life I mean

1:17:46

you're trying to show respect but when you

1:17:48

got a guy like Brody and then graduating

1:17:50

on the heads and sawing on you early

1:17:52

on in your career and you're a big

1:17:55

dude but you've got to pay those respects

1:17:57

boy if you ain't tough and and obviously

1:17:59

if Brad Riggins Was weeding you out and

1:18:01

you pass the weeding process you were tough.

1:18:03

God dang that that's a hell of a

1:18:05

quick 101 On here's how

1:18:07

tough pro wrestling is buddy. You know what?

1:18:10

You know you have a way of putting

1:18:12

things that gets right to the point Steve

1:18:14

But then I went from from bruiser brody

1:18:16

and then Stan Hansen and just you know

1:18:18

I got hit he didn't the

1:18:20

Adams Apple was that big left clothesline so

1:18:22

many times. I just thought that was the

1:18:24

way it was I mean, okay. Yeah,

1:18:26

yeah I just spent eight months

1:18:29

of my life getting to the living kicked

1:18:31

out of me and this is the way

1:18:34

it is Yeah, so the first normal person

1:18:36

I got in the ring with

1:18:38

and that was at the AWA You know he

1:18:41

got out of the ring and said Leon it was a

1:18:43

pretty good match, but damn He said

1:18:45

you know you're a big strong man You're

1:18:47

gonna hurt somebody and I said buddy

1:18:49

I don't know what you're talking about this I've been

1:18:51

getting the kicked out of me For

1:18:53

the last year and I'd looked at him and I just

1:18:55

kind of said thank you for the match But I don't

1:18:57

know what you're talking about right and

1:19:00

so I carried that on over

1:19:02

there And I guess because of

1:19:04

the position that I was in being that you know

1:19:06

I was I was there probably two or three weeks

1:19:08

and automated me the world champion and I Didn't

1:19:11

have the knowledge or experience to really carry the

1:19:13

spot It was because of my size

1:19:15

and my ability to press people over my head and

1:19:18

come off the top rope and do a moonsault And

1:19:21

you know they just hadn't seen that out of the

1:19:23

foreign founder before so You know he put me in

1:19:25

that top spot right away And what I had done

1:19:28

is is there was two a referee

1:19:30

that had been in the business 40 50 years

1:19:33

His name was Jeff Jeffries and guy named

1:19:35

Mick McMichael And they had both been in

1:19:37

business 40 or 50 years and they had

1:19:39

wrestled through there too smaller individuals So they

1:19:41

take great referees they had great knowledge of

1:19:44

the business I'd take that money,

1:19:46

and I would pay them to meet me in the arena

1:19:49

or the tent whatever it was during

1:19:51

the day So around around 2 o'clock I'd get up in

1:19:54

the morning and eat breakfast and go to the gym For

1:19:56

an hour hour and a half and then come and

1:19:59

work with those guys for two hours and

1:20:01

they literally they said man we're gonna start over scratch

1:20:03

and we're gonna teach you how to lock up how

1:20:05

to take it on and how to do this and

1:20:08

how to properly so you can get up to that

1:20:10

top rope because you're just a big athletic guy but

1:20:12

you're not doing it right there's a way to get

1:20:14

up there and they just

1:20:16

basically retrained me not too

1:20:19

bad ringings that did a bad job but

1:20:21

basically they kind of put some

1:20:23

fine touches and some finesse on right you

1:20:25

know I call it the accumulation of the

1:20:27

little thing if I was doing 20 things

1:20:29

wrong they would just take one one

1:20:32

thing a day and fix it and I believe

1:20:34

that happened a great deal well I got dang

1:20:36

it shows a lot of gumption on

1:20:38

your part to be smart enough to say hey

1:20:40

man can you guys help me out and

1:20:43

to go look for some extra help

1:20:45

in an effort to speed up your

1:20:47

process around out your game or you

1:20:49

know to take your personal game higher

1:20:52

so when you're working these matches with Otto

1:20:54

now Otto was like you said he was

1:20:56

smoking low too much he drank some but

1:20:58

he's a big dude and he was over

1:21:01

like Rover so with your snug style was

1:21:03

he saying to you hey Leon take it

1:21:05

easy a little bit out here or was

1:21:08

he getting it or whatever you brought see that's

1:21:10

the difference you know the European

1:21:12

style the Japanese style and especially

1:21:14

the Japanese style it was just

1:21:17

the opposite now I don't was

1:21:19

saying the plan for my

1:21:21

company is based around you being my world

1:21:23

champion and you know I'm gonna create

1:21:25

this monster out of you and you have to show

1:21:28

it and ring he said I want you I'm telling

1:21:30

guys that that I'm telling you to

1:21:33

work stiff and to become that monster

1:21:35

wow I mean when you when you

1:21:37

hit somebody you know hit him

1:21:39

and he said do the same with me I'll never

1:21:42

forget you know one of the matches I had the

1:21:44

captain's jacket he came up to me and said Leon

1:21:46

I want you to cut my face I want you

1:21:48

to break my nose and this was

1:21:50

kind of the attitude that I

1:21:52

was given you know from Ottawa and said you

1:21:55

these guys that working with you I know you're gonna

1:21:57

lay them in and we want you to lay them

1:21:59

in and We're going to create this and we're going

1:22:01

to do some business." He

1:22:04

said, you can't put people in the hospital, but

1:22:06

we want you to work stiff and we want you to work

1:22:08

snug. It was successful

1:22:10

for me. Then of course, going

1:22:12

over to Mexico, it was pretty much the same

1:22:14

thing. Going over to Japan, I mean,

1:22:17

I sat down in the room with Anoki and

1:22:20

Masa Sayido, and they said, listen, just

1:22:22

go out there and be a monster. Do

1:22:24

whatever you want to do, but get over.

1:22:26

All right, you got Antonio Anoki and

1:22:29

Masa Sayido sitting you down, telling you,

1:22:31

hey, go out there and be a

1:22:33

monster and get over. Y'all

1:22:35

heard that. They told Leon White

1:22:37

to go out, be physical, and

1:22:40

get over. That's why

1:22:42

I'm bringing today's show to a close.

1:22:45

Don't sit here and talk to big

1:22:47

Leon White for a hell of a

1:22:49

long edition of this Steve Austin show. Thank

1:22:52

you for joining us for another classic episode

1:22:54

of The Steve Austin Show. Please leave a

1:22:56

rating and review on Apple Podcasts and tell

1:22:58

your friends. For more Steve Austin show, go

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