0:05

I wonder if you could tell me that story about

0:08

the time that sister had to go

0:10

to the hospital and you

0:12

thought, this is gonna be my chance.

0:17

So one of the sisters she had

0:19

been in the hospital recently and

0:22

she needed to go back and have a check up. It

0:25

felt like this opportunity fell

0:27

from heaven into my lap and

0:30

I would I would escape. Why

0:36

why didn't you just walk out, just tell

0:38

someone I'm leaving, and just walk out

0:41

the door. We always went out to buy

0:43

two We were never

0:45

allowed just to to walk out

0:47

and do something, so

0:50

I wouldn't have been able to go, you know,

0:52

more than five or six paces before somebody

0:55

ran up to me and said, where are you going? But

1:01

I knew, because I had

1:03

been in that hospital and was familiar with

1:05

it, that there was a room

1:07

where there was a collection of clothes

1:10

that the patients had left behind,

1:14

so I knew where that was. I could find myself some

1:16

clothes there, some normal

1:19

clothes. I

1:21

thought, I'll drive

1:23

in with this sister who's ill, and

1:26

then when we get there, I

1:28

would just leave. I would

1:30

leave her there, and I would have at least, you

1:33

know, a few hours before anybody figured out

1:35

what I had done.

1:40

So I took

1:43

some phone tokens and

1:45

I got in the car. Then there

1:47

in that car on the way to

1:50

the hospital, I was perspiring.

1:52

My hands were clammy, my heart was racing.

1:56

It was so hot. And as we left the

1:58

city and we drove towards

2:00

the seashore, there was a breeze

2:03

and it started just to feel really

2:06

nice. And there were palm

2:08

trees, and there was the sky and you could see

2:10

the water off in the distance. It

2:13

was like a breath of freedom. It was

2:16

like like a way

2:18

to breathe again. And

2:20

I just wanted more and more of that air, that

2:24

that freedom, that life, that light.

2:28

I thought, this is my chance. I just have to

2:31

take it. There's

2:52

a box in Mary Johnson's house a

2:54

boxer rarely opens. Well, you know,

2:56

I've been talking with you lately about

2:58

all of these things, and so I

3:01

brought this box down from the top of my

3:03

bookcase because I think these things

3:05

do help me remember

3:07

better and get back into the feeling.

3:15

We all know this box, the one full

3:17

of memories of a version of yourself that with time

3:19

and experience becomes more distant, hard

3:22

to relate to. But

3:24

we keep these things as proof out of you

3:27

it's there in case we need reminding. Mary's

3:31

box holds mementos from twenty five years ago,

3:33

a time when she was devoted to a different world, an

3:36

insular community that asked her to separate

3:39

from her family and her past, to focus her life

3:41

on one thing love. Well,

3:43

first, there's this plastic display case

3:46

like you might get some ear rings in or something

3:48

like that, and underneath it's

3:51

just little tiny pieces of Mother Teresa's

3:53

hair. Wow, it's probably

3:56

four strands or something. Would you say,

3:58

Yeah, that looks like or strands

4:01

and they're arranged in a cross

4:03

shape. So I mean, it's

4:05

the hair of a saint that you have in a box

4:07

on your bookshelves. And

4:10

it's not only hair of a saint. I haven't a

4:12

box on my bookshelf, but the

4:14

hair of a woman that I knew and had a

4:16

very complicated relationship with. Mary

4:20

Johnson has these strands of hair and her keeps

4:22

a box. Because she made

4:25

a vow, a vow to devote

4:27

herself to serving the poor and God. She

4:30

became a religious sister with the Missionaries

4:32

of Charity, the Catholic Order formed

4:35

by Mother Teresa. So

4:37

I did spend a lot

4:39

more time alone with her than most sisters had

4:41

the opportunity to do. And

4:44

I loved her. I loved

4:46

her deeply. Mother

4:48

Teresa helping the poorest of the

4:50

poor, Revered by popes and

4:53

president's queens and princesses.

4:56

Practically anything that's known about her is

4:58

shouted in mystery and myth. Though

5:02

fiercely private, the small nun in

5:04

a white and blue sorry became an icon, and

5:07

thousands of women abandoned their previous lives

5:09

to follow her. We were to

5:12

love the unlovable.

5:16

If you feel God is asking you to do

5:18

something, it doesn't matter how

5:20

hard it is. She was so

5:22

close to God, and you

5:25

knew it. When she was there, everything

5:28

changed, you know. I

5:30

heard about Mother Teresa when I was a kid. She

5:33

seems like the ultimate example of selflessness,

5:36

of someone who saw poverty and actually did

5:38

something about it. She seemed like this perfect

5:40

person with a simple message. But

5:44

the more people I've talked to, the more I've

5:46

realized how little I understood her, how

5:48

unusual her spirituality actually

5:51

was, how her legacy was filled

5:53

with controversy, and how thorny

5:55

and complicated her order could be for the people

5:58

inside it. The order

6:01

was wired that

6:03

you had very little time to think

6:06

you're only getting input from one source,

6:09

You're oscillated from everyone else. That's

6:12

what I mean by Brian washing. They become

6:14

the voice of God for you, That's all they keep saying.

6:16

Under your valive obedience. Right. One

6:19

doesn't always know where to draw the line between

6:21

religion and cult. When

6:24

Mary was nineteen years old, she dropped out of

6:26

college and joined Mother Teresa's Order of Nuns.

6:30

There was no legal contract, nothing

6:32

physical that bound her to the group. She could

6:34

leave at any time, but from

6:36

the beginning she was convinced there was no

6:38

turning back. As she

6:40

went deeper, she learned more secrets about this

6:42

way of life. She saw vows

6:44

taken to extremes. She felt

6:46

the rigidity of rules. How separate

6:49

the society, this culture, this world

6:51

really was. Many

6:53

former sisters like Mary entered the Order

6:55

seeking love and purpose, only to

6:58

lose themselves along the way, And

7:00

it was a long road back. My

7:03

story is the story of a woman

7:05

who disappoints the

7:07

most admired woman in the world. From

7:17

a Coco Punch and I Heart Media, this

7:19

is the turning I'm Erica Llance

7:22

Part one, No turning back. Mother

7:38

Teresa was busy as usual saving

7:41

the world. And I mean that quite

7:43

literally. Ronald

7:46

Reagan's in front of the French doors of the West wing

7:48

of the White House. Her Order of

7:51

the Missionaries of Charity has spread throughout

7:53

the world, serving the poorest

7:55

of the poor. Mother Teresa stands

7:58

beside him and her white and blue sorry a

8:00

foot shorter than he is. Mother Rasa

8:02

is a heroine of our times. And

8:05

to the many honors she has received, including

8:07

the Nobel Peace Prize, we

8:10

add with deep affection and endless respect,

8:13

the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

8:25

I am most unworthy of

8:28

this generous gift

8:32

of her, President Sagan

8:36

and his wife and new people of

8:39

United States. But

8:42

I accepted for the

8:44

greater glory of God and in

8:46

the name of the

8:49

millions of poor people. But

8:51

this gift in

8:54

spirit and in love will

8:56

penetrate the hearts of the people,

8:59

for in giving it to me, you

9:01

are giving it to them.

9:06

Mother Teresa founded her Congregation of Sisters

9:09

and Calcutta, India in ninety

9:11

She called them the Missionaries of Charity

9:14

MCS for short, and she became

9:16

famous for tending to what she called the poorest

9:18

of the poor, especially in her home

9:21

for the dying. She explained her mission

9:23

with a Bible passage. Jesus

9:25

said, I was hungry

9:28

and you gave me to eat. I

9:30

was naked, you clothed me. I

9:32

was homeless and you took

9:35

me in. I was seeking

9:37

in prison, and you visited

9:39

me, and you took care of me. Mother

9:43

Teresa's Missionaries of Charity believe that each

9:45

sick person on the street is Jesus

9:47

and disguise, that's the same

9:49

Jesus in the distressing

9:51

disguise of the poor. The

9:54

Missionaries of Charity are still headquartered in

9:56

Calcutta, but Mother Teresa expanded

9:58

her mission far beyond Indi You. She

10:00

founded convents in other countries, and

10:03

she created new MC branches for fathers

10:05

and for brothers. As her order

10:07

grew, so did Mother Teresa's fame. People

10:10

loved her message. She spoke of love,

10:12

of having compassion for everyone, of

10:14

doing your small part to help others. It's

10:17

a message that appealed to Mary Johnson. Mary

10:20

grew up in Michigan and Texas in a Catholic

10:23

family. She was the oldest of seven

10:25

kids, and at a young age she had

10:27

a special relationship with a higher power. I

10:29

had always found church to be something

10:32

I enjoyed if it didn't last too

10:35

long. I enjoyed Catholic

10:37

school when I was in class, but

10:40

on the playground at lunch time, I really

10:42

have many friends, and so I would find

10:45

someplace on the distant side of the playground

10:47

and I would just talk to God. And

10:49

I think that's kind of where it started

10:51

for me. In second

10:53

grade, Mary's teacher told the class to write

10:55

about what they wanted to be when they grew up. Boys,

10:59

you could be fireman, you could

11:01

be doctors, you could be policemen.

11:03

And she gave this long list of careers

11:06

possibilities, and

11:08

then she said, girls, you could

11:10

be nurses or teachers.

11:12

So right your, I say, now, I

11:15

didn't know what to do because I wanted

11:17

to be either an archaeologist or the director

11:20

of the New York Philharmonic. I used to

11:22

watch Leonard Bernstein on television and

11:24

I just loved that, and I thought it was just the best thing

11:26

in the world, Just two options

11:28

for girls neither interested. Mary.

11:31

Here's what she wrote in the end, when I

11:33

grow up, I will be whatever God

11:36

wants me to be. I

11:38

have figured that way. God has lending more possibilities,

11:41

and he said than the sister does, and

11:43

so I I thought, that's that's

11:46

it. But somehow

11:48

it wasn't just an essay for me. It was like

11:50

a pact. It was like, Okay, God,

11:53

you show me what you want, and I will

11:55

do that thing. When

11:57

Mary was twelve years old, her parents got in to

12:00

charismatic Catholicism. They were pretty

12:02

involved in it. The local group often met

12:04

at their house. They'd pray and speak

12:06

and sing in tongues. But Mary

12:08

didn't quite connect with that type of spirituality.

12:11

She waited for her own message from God. In

12:15

high school, Barry joined the debate team.

12:17

She wrote for the high school newspaper, and

12:19

then when she was a senior, the message

12:22

arrived. And I was walking

12:25

past our library, which had glass

12:27

windows, and I saw a cover of Time

12:29

magazine and there was this face

12:32

of this wrinkled nun with

12:35

a with a white veil with

12:37

blue stripes, and she had these

12:39

eyes and and I took

12:42

the magazine from the shelf

12:44

and I started reading in the ball rang for French

12:46

class. And I didn't care. I just sat

12:48

there and I read about this not in

12:50

Calcutta, who was doing these fantastic

12:53

things with taking

12:56

in dyeing people and

12:58

caring for them. She

13:01

was attracted to the mcs focus on love

13:03

and working with the poor, but it

13:05

was their commitment to the vow of poverty

13:07

to live like those they were serving that

13:10

grabbed her. I mean, the Missionaries of Charity

13:12

took poverty really seriously.

13:15

And one of the places in the Bible where

13:17

Jesus talks about poverty is

13:19

during that Sermon on the mount when he says,

13:23

stop worrying about everything.

13:26

Look at the birds of the air, Look

13:28

at the lilies of the field. See how your

13:30

heavenly Father takes care of them. He knows

13:32

what they need me make sure they get it. It's

13:34

going to be less for you. He has

13:36

every hair on your head counted. What do

13:38

you think He's gonna let disaster strike?

13:41

No, no, just just consider

13:44

the lilies. The

13:47

article just pulled her in like nothing before.

13:50

This was like my whole heart on fire.

13:53

And I really felt like that was God talking

13:55

to me. And by the time I got up, I said,

13:57

this is what I gotta do, and I went home and started

14:00

writing letters and trying to figure

14:02

it out. Mary wrote to Mother

14:04

Teresa and asked to join her order. You

14:07

know, it's kind of that impulsivity

14:09

of a teenager. It

14:28

was the summer of nine when

14:31

Mary arrived in New York City. She

14:34

made her way through the city to a new life as

14:36

a missionary of charity. I'd

14:38

never been in a big city like

14:41

that before. Um enormous

14:44

buildings and wide

14:46

streets, and all

14:48

of these people out on the streets,

14:51

so many cars, so much action, and

14:53

it was exciting. Mary

14:55

was headed to the Bronx. That's where the main

14:57

empty house in the United States is, and

15:00

it's where she joined you sisters in training.

15:02

She carried a cardboard box tied with string.

15:05

It held two skirts and two blouses.

15:07

That's all the sisters said she'd need. New

15:11

York was a different place. In the summer of s

15:14

a widespread blackout shut down the city and

15:16

led to looting. It had nearly gone bankrupt

15:19

just two years before. Landlords were

15:21

setting fire to their own buildings to cash in

15:23

on insurance, and one of the biggest

15:25

man hunts in New York City history was on for

15:27

the son of Sam, serial killer who

15:29

was shooting and murdering young women. But

15:33

when Mary arrived, but she noticed was

15:35

the energy. I do remember

15:37

very clearly emerging from

15:41

the subway station there, and walking

15:43

into all of this sounds

15:45

Spanish music, Spanish

15:48

speaking. I see mangoes

15:50

on the on the sidewalk

15:52

there in front of the fruit stand, and

15:55

just all the excitement

15:57

and the energy of the South

15:59

Brown in the summer of nineteen seven.

16:02

There were these groups, especially

16:04

of young men and older boys,

16:08

gathered around boom boxes and

16:10

doing these enormous gymnastic

16:12

moves. Is very, very impressive

16:15

breakdancing, and

16:17

I just feeling like I had walked into a

16:20

completely different world than

16:22

the one I'd known. The

16:27

convent looked like any other house in the area,

16:30

a simple brick building. So

16:32

I ring the doorbell and wait

16:35

a little while, and wait a little while, and then finally

16:37

sister Rochelle comes down. She welcomes

16:39

me with a big smile, and she knows my name, and she

16:42

knows what I'm there for. They've been waiting for me.

16:45

And I went inside and everything

16:47

inside was quiet. Rossell whispered

16:49

to me and she says, welcome, and

16:52

she says, let's go say hello to Jesus.

16:55

After a quick stop to pray in the chapel, they

16:57

climbed the stairs to the refectory, the

17:00

room where they did most everything they

17:02

ate their meals in the refectory, studied how to

17:04

be a sister in the refectory. Inside

17:06

was applywood table, two benches at

17:08

a stool. I was kind of amazed

17:11

at how there it

17:13

was, how minimal it was. On

17:15

the wall hung side by side images

17:18

of Mother Teresa and Jesus. There

17:20

was also a plaque with the motto for new Sisters,

17:23

a quote from the Gospel of John. Jesus

17:26

must increase and I must decrease.

17:29

Then Sister Rochelle showed her the dormitory,

17:32

a sacred space that must stay silent.

17:34

They were never to speak inside it.

17:37

It was one room with thirteen cots and

17:39

they were really close together, just enough

17:41

room between them to get into bed. Mary

17:43

was excited for this unadorned life.

17:46

Things can weigh you down so much,

17:49

and there was a sense of freedom to it. How

17:51

are you going to get along with just these few little things?

17:53

And but it's it's nice. It's the lilies

17:56

of the field and the birds of the air

17:59

don't need much. Mary

18:01

arrived in time for adoration. She

18:04

and the other sisters filed into a pewless

18:06

chapel. They knelt in rose and

18:08

put their heads to the floor. The center

18:11

of this life was God. Nothing

18:14

else mattered

18:17

in the way that those moments of

18:20

prayer did that time, that time

18:22

with God, they're chanting

18:24

mixed with the sounds from outside backfiring

18:27

cars, boom boxes. She

18:30

felt like she'd entered a distant, peaceful planet

18:32

she didn't understand. She

18:34

prayed she'd have the strength for this life. At

18:38

dinner that night, Mary and her twelve new sisters

18:40

gathered around that plywood refectory table

18:43

and stair. Carmeline said, Praise be Jesus

18:45

Christ, and everybody there started

18:48

clapping their hands and singings,

18:50

we welcome, welcome sister, We

18:53

welcome, welcome sister, We welcome,

18:55

welcome sister from our heart um,

18:59

just as they had song to each new sister who

19:01

arrived, and would continue to sing to each

19:03

one after me. When

19:37

a woman enters the Missionaries of Charity, she

19:39

starts as an aspirant. Mary's aspiancy

19:42

would last six months. She wore a conservative

19:44

blouse and skirt. The white sorry would

19:47

come later. She quickly

19:49

learns that days in the Missionaries of Charity were

19:51

strictly regimented. A bell

19:53

rang to signal time for a new task.

19:58

The bell marked absolutely everything

20:00

we did, and whenever

20:02

it rang, whatever it rang,

20:05

Mother told us we were to stop immediately

20:09

doing whatever we were doing, because

20:11

the bell was the voice of God. The

20:15

sisters had a tight timetable. Wake

20:17

up at four or forty in the morning, pray,

20:20

make beds, clean the house only twenty

20:22

minutes for that, wash clothes by hand

20:24

at ten, mass, eat breakfast all before

20:27

eight o'clock, then go out to work in the

20:29

community. There was

20:31

also the kneeling and praying hours

20:33

of it every day. I

20:36

loved the fact that prayer was so central

20:38

to the lives of the missionaries of Charity,

20:40

but my knees hurt like hell.

20:45

There were times for spiritual reading and instruction,

20:48

and they got thirty minutes of what they called recreation,

20:51

basically when they all sat in the refectory and caught

20:53

up on work like mending clothes. The

20:56

aspirants reported to a mistress in charge,

20:59

the aspiring mistress. She taught

21:01

them how to follow the rules. I

21:03

was under very close scrutiny,

21:06

and my aspirment mistress

21:08

would correct every mistake she saw,

21:10

and she'd do it publicly, and

21:13

she'd do it loudly, kind

21:15

of like the drill sergeant the

21:20

idea behind the mission of Charity training is

21:22

just like like military training, to break you down

21:24

into nothing. This is Kelly Dunham.

21:27

She also joined the Missionaries of Charity and

21:29

began her training in the same convent as Mary,

21:31

but seventeen years later. In those

21:35

first months, it seemed like the

21:37

whole idea was to make you feel as alone

21:39

as possible, with the idea that you would depend

21:41

only on God. Kelly

21:43

says that like in boot camp, you did what you were told,

21:46

whether or not it made sense to you. She

21:48

struggled with that, but she loved the moments

21:50

of beauty working as a group for

21:52

a cause and their nightly songs.

21:56

After evening prayer, all of the sisters would

21:58

walk outside and stand around ound a statue

22:00

of Mary, the Mother of Jesus. Then

22:03

you sing a little song to Mary and everyone does

22:05

like a little silent prayer and usually touches the statue.

22:07

I think, on the feet and then goes up. Created

22:09

a moment, a moment of honoring

22:11

something bigger than yourself. And it's just like

22:14

by candle lights, right, so it's actually

22:16

extremely like poignant

22:18

and it's a moment right like it's a moment

22:21

I still can almost get tearful thinking about that.

22:24

And I can remember one night we

22:26

were all standing around the statue of Mary with all

22:28

the sisters, their faces reflected

22:31

lighted up by just the candle light, and

22:33

I remember thinking, Oh, man, I get to be with all these

22:35

beautiful women the rest of my life.

22:47

Mary Johnson had been in the convent for two weeks

22:49

when there is a big announcement Mother

22:51

Teresa was coming. We got so excited,

22:54

you know, we just shouted there,

22:57

just oh so excited.

23:00

She told us during dinner. So it was the time when we

23:02

could speak, and we did. Mary

23:04

couldn't believe she'd finally meet this woman people

23:06

called a living saint. You know. I'd heard

23:08

about saints. Some of saints had

23:11

these abilities where they could

23:13

read people's souls. If she was like

23:15

that, she probably wouldn't

23:17

like me, I thought. And the other

23:19

thing I was scared about was what would happen if

23:22

it turned out I didn't like her. I

23:26

decided what I would do was I

23:28

would go to the top of the staircase

23:31

because Mother Streets would come in the front door,

23:33

and if I positioned myself just right on

23:35

those stairs, I'd be able

23:37

to see her and when the door

23:39

opened and Mother was

23:41

the first one to come in, and I

23:44

saw her there, this this tiny,

23:46

short woman with so many wrinkles,

23:49

and she just looked so small and so determined.

23:51

And the aspirants who had been waiting,

23:54

and we're down there on that floor, Oh,

23:57

Mother, Mother, and they were saying things,

23:59

and she was like, let me say

24:01

hello to Jesus. First, Mother

24:03

must say hello to Jesus. It

24:06

was the first time I heard her talk about herself

24:08

in the third person, which was something she did all

24:10

the time. But I didn't know that then, I thought. Mother

24:13

Teresa looked utterly focused as she took off

24:15

her sandals and walked to the chapel. Then

24:18

she knelt to pray. I had never

24:20

seen anyone somehow

24:23

that connected with God. I

24:26

felt that something holy was happening

24:28

there. One

24:38

day, Mother Teresa sat down at the aspiran's

24:40

table to talk with the young women entering her

24:42

order. She shared a clear

24:45

message, one that would reverberate

24:47

in Mary's mind for the next twenty years.

24:50

God called you to come here. Jesus

24:52

did not call your sister, did

24:54

not call your neighbor. Jesus

24:56

called you to be here. And

24:59

she said God has

25:01

called you. You must be faithful

25:04

for life, or pack up and go home

25:06

right now. And she was so

25:09

clear and so strong and

25:11

not a little bit scary. And

25:15

she was saying, just to people who had been there for

25:18

for two weeks basically, and

25:20

I hadn't figured it out yet. You didn't know

25:22

exactly did God call me? That's a very

25:25

amorphous question. But Mother was sure.

25:27

She said, you're here. That means God called you

25:29

here, and now you must be faithful

25:31

for life. She

25:34

brought the twelve aspirants to the chapel and

25:36

had the kneel in a row at the front. Then

25:39

she went down the line and gave them each a crucifix.

25:42

She brought the crucifix to each sister's

25:44

lips for a kiss. She pressed

25:47

that crucifix so strongly against my

25:49

lips that you know, it's like you can hardly respond

25:51

with any sort of kiss because she pushes

25:54

it there and then she pulls it away. Mother

25:56

did everything forcefully,

25:58

wholeheartedly. You know,

26:00

you feel that kind of electricity

26:03

when something special is happening,

26:05

where your whole body just kind of tingles

26:08

and feels alive. And

26:10

at the same time, there was a kind of a I

26:14

think the reluctance wasn't so much in my

26:16

body. The reluctance was more in my mind.

26:18

But physically I was very

26:21

excited. I was kind of full. And I remember

26:24

whenever Mother spoke, just being so

26:26

taken in by her words and by her

26:28

conviction and by the power of

26:31

her own belief, that

26:35

you really just looked at her and

26:38

could not look away. Okay,

26:43

now I have to be a better person than

26:45

I have ever been in my whole life.

26:49

The bar has been raised. When

26:54

Mother Teresa told Mary and the other aspirants

26:57

that they were chosen, she said it came

26:59

with a lifelong commitment. It was like a

27:01

marriage. They must be faithful

27:03

to God and their vows. All

27:11

Catholic nuns take vows of poverty, chastity,

27:14

and obedience. Mother Teresa

27:16

added a fourth vow for her sisters, the

27:18

vow of wholehearted and free service to

27:20

the poorest of the poor. Mother

27:23

Teresa said, to succeed in your vows, you just

27:25

need to do one thing. Follow the constitutions.

27:28

That's the governing document of the missionaries

27:30

of charity. Legend was that early

27:33

on, while everyone slept, Mother Teresa

27:35

wrote the constitutions by candle light. Then

27:37

the Vatican authorized it as an infallible

27:40

path to holiness. The Constitutions

27:42

laid out a life of love and service

27:45

in the extreme that the attraction

27:47

is really that life of sacrifice. You want to do

27:49

something different, you want to do something radical,

27:52

even if it's very conservative, it's also

27:55

very radical to do this. The

27:57

Aspirans had a daily rule class taught by the

27:59

mistress. Mary's mistress wore

28:01

glasses. She was short and stern. Sister

28:03

calmly sat on her little stool at the

28:06

head of the table, and she passed

28:08

out the Constitution books, page

28:11

to open to, which number on

28:13

that page to read, and we'd read

28:15

it together, and then we'd close the books. And

28:17

then at the end of class she would collect them.

28:20

And it's kind of like, I knew there were

28:22

things in that book she did not want us to see

28:24

it as curious about

28:26

those. Gradually

28:30

Mary learned the rules from her mistress. She

28:32

learned how to walk briskly, quickly, you

28:34

don't want to waste any time, but not

28:37

like wild elephants. How to talk.

28:39

We weren't supposed to talk about really

28:41

anything that went on outside, you know,

28:43

whether it was books or movies, how

28:46

to wear her hair and make a ponytail like

28:48

decent girls. How to keep custody of the

28:50

eyes. We weren't supposed to be looking

28:52

around at anything really

28:55

um, but especially not billboards

28:57

or newsstands. Even how to fall

29:00

the napkin always in a triangle

29:02

with an extra part hanging down. And that was that

29:05

triangle is the Trinity. I should think

29:07

of the Trinity every time you fold it in this

29:09

particular way. Your superior

29:12

was considered the direct voice of God, and

29:14

the vow of obedience meant obey your superior

29:17

without question. Any time

29:19

a superior entered the room, we were all

29:21

to stand and to sit only when

29:23

she sat or indicated in some other

29:25

way that we should sit. Then

29:28

there was the vow of poverty. Pretty

29:31

Much all Catholic nuns take avow of poverty,

29:33

but Mother Teresa took it a step further. She

29:35

explained it in an interview on Irish TV. If

29:38

you really want to know the poor, we

29:40

must know what is poverty, and

29:42

that's why not society. Poverty

29:45

is our freedom and our strength. The

29:48

missionaries of Charity relied on donations

29:50

and divine providence, and over the

29:52

years the Order received large donations

29:54

millions of dollars worth because of the interest

29:56

their work inspired. But the sisters

29:59

lived meager live regardless

30:01

of how much money the organization raised. They

30:03

lived as though they didn't have any for the

30:05

sake of their vow. The life of poverty

30:08

of the Missionaries of Charity is

30:10

is um is

30:13

a very poor life. It

30:16

is a poor life, This

30:19

is Sister Kathleen Hughes. I

30:21

remember my first breakfast in London.

30:24

I never forget. It

30:26

was kind of moldy bread,

30:28

and then we got the airport

30:31

cheeses from the air you know,

30:33

somebody would bring us these little individual

30:35

cheeses from the planes, you see, and

30:39

and they were over ripe by

30:41

the time we got them. So I had

30:44

a mouthful of moldy bread and

30:46

this over ripe Commembert

30:49

cheese. And I remember saying

30:51

to the Lord, is every

30:53

breakfast for the rest of my life

30:55

going to be like this? Oh?

30:58

No, it

31:01

was an initiation. It was a test.

31:07

The mission is a charity. Don't have fans or air conditioners.

31:10

That's kindly Dunham again. And in the

31:12

Bronx at that time, we weren't even opening

31:14

the windows during the night,

31:17

you know, So it was really really hot, so

31:19

we didn't wear deodorant. We're

31:22

wearing like three or four layers between

31:24

the outside, so even when you sweated, it didn't make

31:27

you cooler because it wasn't evaporating,

31:29

was just getting trapped by the outside layer. Um.

31:31

And I remember saying to the sisters like, we

31:34

don't smell very good, and she's like, oh, such a

31:36

blessing to help with chastity. No. Mother

31:40

Teresa was very concerned about

31:44

maintaining the vow of chastity,

31:47

really almost to the point of paranoia

31:50

about it, and she passed

31:52

then on to everybody else in

31:54

rural class. Mary learned chastity meant

31:56

more than not having sex for missionaries

31:59

of charity, and meant no touching period.

32:02

The sisters should never touch each other and

32:05

the people they cared for. Mother Teresa

32:07

said, touch them as little as possible.

32:10

She would say, sometimes, of course it's

32:12

necessary. You have to touch the babies,

32:14

you have to feed the babies. But as soon as

32:17

that baby is sped, you put that baby down.

32:19

The vow of chastity is why talking was so controlled,

32:22

To make sure sisters didn't get too close.

32:25

They could only talk at approved times, usually

32:27

when they were all together. When sisters

32:29

walked outside the convent, always in twos,

32:32

they didn't talk. Instead, they

32:34

prayed the Rosary. Allowed together, on

32:37

sidewalks, on busses, everywhere,

32:40

you could not have a friend. This

32:42

was very specifically prohibited.

32:46

They call it particular friendship. If if

32:48

somebody saw you getting kind of

32:50

closer to one sister than to another,

32:53

you would be called out on it.

32:56

They were. They were afraid that if

32:59

if you got too close to somebody, everybody else would

33:01

feel excluded. And then the other

33:03

fear was that particular friendship was

33:05

kind of a name for like

33:09

relationships of a homosexual nature.

33:12

If you got too close to somebody, it was

33:14

really you were playing with fire. I'm

33:50

cutting in here right now because I think for a

33:53

story like this, it's important for you to know where I'm

33:55

coming from. And to do that, I'd

33:57

like to introduce you to someone. Her name

33:59

is Allen so High. I'm

34:01

Ailan, and I'm your sister Erica,

34:04

like actual sister, not religious sister.

34:08

And over the past year we've

34:10

actually been working on this podcast

34:12

together. We've been producing it together. I'm

34:15

curious. I mean, when I called you and asked you to

34:17

work on this project, what did you think? I

34:20

thought, you know what, that makes a lot

34:22

of sense. Really. I think

34:24

it's because, you know, we went to Catholic

34:27

school when we were young, even though we

34:29

weren't Catholic, and we

34:31

had nuns as teachers, and I think you

34:33

really looked up to the America. Yeah.

34:36

I looked up to them, and I was also really

34:39

interested in them. Remember

34:41

they lived in a house like right by the school. We

34:44

it was down the drive from the school. We'd passed it every

34:46

day. It was white. Yeah,

34:49

whenever we went past that house, I would

34:51

look at it and just wonder what their

34:54

lives were like in that house, Like what are the rooms

34:56

they're sleeping in? How

34:58

did they become nuns? Like? How do you make that

35:00

choice? It's weird to look

35:02

back, but I actually think in second

35:04

grade I made a list of all the things

35:07

I wanted to be when I grew up, which was a really long list,

35:09

but one of the things I included was

35:11

to be a nun. Which

35:13

is strange to think back on now, but

35:15

I was really taken with them. Yeah, you were.

35:18

I kind of feel like, in a way this podcast,

35:20

it's like I'm getting to look inside that house,

35:22

you know. Hm. You know. That's

35:25

one reason I wanted to work on it with you, because

35:27

you have a PhD in psychology

35:29

and you're really interested in the extremes

35:31

of human behavior and why people do what

35:34

they do. And I

35:36

feel like that's a big part of this too, because

35:40

the missionaries and charity, it's an intense

35:42

way of life. Yeah,

35:45

when I first heard about this story, I

35:47

thought there would be a lot of beautiful

35:50

moments and also how

35:53

life is an m C is difficult at times,

35:55

you know, But I

35:58

guess what we ended up finding is

36:01

there was a lot more darkness than I

36:03

realized. M And

36:07

you know, just hearing these women talk about even

36:10

how years after leaving they

36:12

were having nightmares about times as an MC.

36:16

I don't know. It's just hard to grapple

36:18

with all that. It's just hard to

36:21

keep all the beautiful stories

36:24

and all the dark ones in my head at

36:26

once, and so I'm constantly

36:28

changing how I feel about this. Yeah,

36:32

it's a lot more complicated than I thought. Early

36:44

on, maybe a week into Mary's time at the

36:47

convent, she saw what it was like to be

36:49

on the wrong end of her rule. It

36:51

was the end of the day, so Mary took her nightly

36:53

shower. Then she walked out of the bathing

36:55

room. So I'm there with my

36:58

bucket full of my dirty clothes. I'm

37:00

wearing my night dress, and I would walk

37:02

out the door and immediately standing

37:05

right there so I can't even move, is

37:07

sister Carmeline. And

37:09

then she says, Sister Mary,

37:12

you took the shower. I

37:15

said, yes, sister, and

37:17

she says, and

37:19

you did it last night too. I heard the water falling.

37:22

You took the shower, yes, sister,

37:24

having you no shame? I mean, it was really

37:27

She was getting very upset. She ended

37:29

up calling me all sorts of names that I

37:32

was vain and lazy and immodest.

37:34

And I could not figure this out. What

37:36

on earth had I done that was wrong?

37:39

The water coming from the shower head was

37:41

cold water. I hadn't broken poverty

37:43

by turning on the hot one. I

37:47

hadn't taken very long. I was really

37:49

pretty quick about it. I couldn't understand.

37:52

Earlier that day, Sister Carmeline had taught

37:54

the aspirants how to respond when corrected.

37:57

You're supposed to stay silent, never

37:59

talked back, and only speak when

38:01

it's clear your superior is done. Then

38:03

there was only one thing you could say, thank

38:06

you, sister, Sorry, sister. And

38:08

so all the while my mind is racing, trying to figure

38:11

out what on earth I've done wrong.

38:13

At the same time, this instruction

38:15

is coming back. Stand there silent,

38:18

like Jesus before Pilot,

38:21

sister Carmeline had said. And

38:23

even that morning that had caused a

38:25

little confusion for me, because I knew before

38:28

Pilot Jesus did not stand

38:30

silent. Jesus and Pilot had a conversation,

38:33

and Jesus talks about

38:35

the truth. Pilot asked, what's what is

38:37

truth? There's there's this dialogue

38:39

between them. Jesus was silent

38:41

before King Herod when he was brought

38:44

before him. But at the end

38:46

I could only say those five words,

38:49

thank you, sister, Sorry, sister.

38:53

The next morning, Mary asked another sister what

38:55

she's done wrong. Mcs don't

38:57

take showers. She said, instead,

39:00

you're supposed to pour water over yourself with a

39:02

tin can. And then at the end I just

39:04

said thank you and just kind of tapped her on the

39:06

arm, and she got so furious she said, no, don't

39:09

touch, don't touch you know, I

39:11

was like, oh, I can't do anything

39:13

right. Mary

39:17

started her training with eleven other women. Six

39:20

months later, only she and one other aspirant

39:23

remained. Each time my sister

39:25

left it felt abrupt. They'd only find

39:27

out about it after the fact from their mistress,

39:29

no explanation, just that they'd left. The

39:32

remaining sisters didn't get to say goodbye, and

39:34

they weren't allowed to talk about it. It

39:36

made Mary wonder about her own vocation. Inside

39:39

of me, there were all these questions

39:41

about so what does it mean

39:43

to be called? And how do you

39:46

know if you're called? Mary prayed

39:48

over and over to know whether she should go home

39:50

or stay, and it just always came

39:52

back to this, this tug,

39:55

this poll to come

39:57

and join Mother Teresa in

40:00

following Jesus. It was like, yes,

40:02

this is what I was meant to do. This is

40:04

it. Mary finished

40:06

her aspirancy, so she was ready for the next

40:08

step. And I should say there

40:10

are a lot of steps to become an m C or

40:13

any kind of nun. They each have different

40:15

names and it can get confusing, but don't worry

40:17

about it. I'll help you along the way.

40:20

Basically, first year in training, then for

40:22

a while you take vows that last a year, and

40:24

finally you take lifelong vows. But

40:27

Mary says, even before those final vows,

40:30

Mother Teresa believed you were committed for

40:32

life. Any urge to leave was

40:34

the devil's temptation. Yes, in

40:37

the book it says you take your

40:39

vows for one year, but you know in your heart

40:41

you do not tell Jesus yes for one year,

40:43

you say yes for your entire life.

40:46

I think Mother Teresa took everything

40:48

to its most radical conclusion.

40:52

It's a lot of pressure for anyone, especially

40:54

a teenager. At this point,

40:56

Mary was ready to become what's called a postulant,

40:59

and for that she was sent to Rome. I

41:02

arrived in Rome at the beginning of night.

41:05

I was still nineteen years old. Rome

41:08

was full of life and history. The Colosseum,

41:10

the Roman Forum, the Pantheon, they were

41:12

all nearby. At the time. The city

41:14

was in turmoil too, fights in the

41:16

streets, new divorce and abortion laws

41:19

that led to protests. But

41:21

Mary's life centered around the convent at

41:23

the San Gregorio Church. A

41:26

little world inside this bustling city.

41:29

Across a gravel yard and through a gate was

41:31

the convent, a block of low cement

41:33

buildings. As a postulant,

41:35

she still wore her own skirt and blouse. No

41:38

sorry. Yet whenever

41:40

she felt overwhelmed, she remembered

41:42

Mother's words, you're here. That

41:44

means God called you here, and

41:47

now you must be faithful for life. After

41:50

postulancy, Mary became a novice, and

41:52

that meant it was time to take a new name. Once

41:55

she picked for herself sister Donat

41:58

don it and freely

42:01

given. There is also

42:03

a ceremony. Mary and seven

42:06

other sisters lined up in a chapel

42:08

in front of Mother Teresa. One

42:10

by one, Mother called the sisters by their new

42:13

names. When Mary

42:15

heard Mother Teresa call her new name, Sister

42:18

Donata, it felt like a wave crested

42:20

over her. It carried away Mary,

42:22

the postulant who struggled with all the rules.

42:25

And so I suppose in that since my

42:27

old self was decreasing, Mother

42:32

handed her new clothes. In a few

42:34

moments, Mary's skirt and blouse would be gone forever,

42:37

replaced by the white saries of the Missionaries

42:40

of Charity. Mother

42:42

had Mary kissed the habit. She

42:44

said, let the world be nothing to you,

42:47

and you nothing to the world. Then

42:50

a sister handed Mother Teresa a pair of

42:52

scissors to take the first snip

42:54

of Mary's hair. Mother

42:57

Teresa cut off just one little lock of hair,

43:00

laid it on a tray. Another

43:04

sister cut off Mary's ponytail. They

43:08

were all singing this song, I

43:11

have decided to follow

43:14

Jesus. I

43:16

have decided to

43:19

follow Jesus.

43:21

I have decided to

43:24

follow Jesuss

43:27

No turning back,

43:29

no turning

43:31

back. And

43:36

we got dressed in our new clothes. And

43:38

then as we were leaving to go back into

43:40

the chapel, we were given that ponytail

43:43

to hold into our hands, and we were

43:45

told that this is like the bouquet

43:47

of flowers that a young bride would

43:50

carry to her wedding. And

43:52

so we brought that ponytail, holding

43:54

it in our hands, and laid

43:56

it there in front of the altar and

43:58

a little basket that us there. After

44:01

the ceremony, Mother Teresa ate dinner

44:03

with the new novices. Mother

44:06

explained that cutting their hair was a sign of

44:08

a sacred commitment to God. Once

44:12

dinner was over, grand silence

44:14

began, like every evening, no

44:17

talking aloud until breakfast the next day.

44:21

But that night something unusual happened,

44:24

without anyone saying a word. One

44:27

of the sisters began to pull each

44:29

of us new novices aside, and

44:32

then she signed to us that

44:34

we should follow her, and we

44:36

went into a back room.

44:38

A fire was burning and

44:41

so the room was quite hot. The

44:43

ceremony wasn't over yet, no

44:46

one spoke. There were four stools

44:49

in the middle of the room. There were eight of us

44:51

novices waiting there wondering what

44:53

on earth was going on. And

44:55

then the first four got motioned to sit on

44:57

the stools. The

45:00

professed sisters held scissors. All

45:02

Mary watched. They were moved to the novice's headpieces.

45:06

They trained what was left of their hair, cutting

45:08

it shorter and shorter and shorter down

45:11

to the scalp. The sisters

45:13

were saying, Hail Mary, full of grace,

45:15

and we were answering, Holy Mary, Mother

45:17

of God, pray for us. And

45:19

I remember one was had

45:22

had tears in her eyes as her hair

45:24

was falling, and others are just kind

45:26

of sitting there with their eyes shut as tight

45:29

as they could. That was kind

45:31

of kind of frightening

45:33

to see it all happened all at once like

45:35

that. It became very real. Then

45:38

it was Mary's turn to sit on a stool and

45:41

cutting started. There's

45:44

very little hair there, there's and now

45:47

there's less, and there's less, until

45:49

there was really just just nothing, as

45:51

close as you could get with a pair of scissors.

46:02

After it was done, someone handed Mary

46:04

a bucket of water. She took it to the

46:06

bathing room to wash herself. Just

46:08

as I was finishing my bath, at

46:11

this horrible smell came

46:13

through the bathing room door. It was just like this

46:16

acrid, awful,

46:18

awful smell. And

46:22

I followed that smell back into

46:24

the room where our hair had been cut, and I

46:26

saw there our novice mistress was

46:28

tossing our ponytails into that fire,

46:32

and just tossing our hair into the fire.

46:38

And I could hear again that him that

46:40

had been sung earlier that day,

46:43

now turning back, now turning back,

46:48

And it really felt that way.

47:42

The Turning is written by Allen lance Lesser and

47:44

Me. Our producers are Allen lance

47:47

Lesser and Emily Foreman. Our editor is Rob

47:49

Rosenthal. Andrea Asuage is our

47:51

digital producer. Fact checking by

47:53

Andrea Lopez Crusado. Special

47:56

thanks to Amy Gains, Sarah oh Leender, Catherine

47:58

Joyce, Georgia Young, Beth and Macaluso,

48:01

Travis Dunlap, and consulting producer Mary

48:03

Johnson. Her memoir and Unquenchable

48:05

Thirst provided inspiration for this series.

48:09

President Reagan's remarks and presentation of the

48:12

Medal of Freedom to Mother Teresa and her remarks

48:14

in the Rose Garden on or

48:17

use courtesy of Ronald Reagan Presidential

48:19

Library under a Creative Comments license.

48:24

Our executive producers are Jessica Alpert

48:26

and John Trotti at for Coco Punch and

48:28

Katrina Norville at I Heeart Media. Our

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theme music is by Matt Reid. For photos

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and more details on the series, follow us on Instagram

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at for Coco Punch. You can reach out

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via email to the Turning at for Coco

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Punch dot com. I am

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Erica Lance. Thanks for listening.