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Sweet Auburn Fest Newburgh games are for trash

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parischanel. See through the show talk

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about the big Microsoft, Activision deal, houses,

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big scoop about Google's AR headset. Has a

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1:44

is on vacation again at the end

1:46

of last week's show i cancel your like and dieter was echoing

1:48

sweet because i cannot imagine

1:51

a life without eat around but he still

1:53

for this isn't so i apologize other

1:56

unimpressive specially taxis are sonication

1:59

but outs he says i am

2:01

not deter but i'm here it means it's

2:04

like it's a high bar but we're going to get to it but as

2:06

paris is your ass any games for highest hi

2:08

i'm also not theater but woman here we

2:10

were gave her a little later enough russell brand him

2:12

on such that some five g stuff but

2:15

young the biggest newsweek here is myself

2:18

by activision he's had a scoops

2:20

i do want to start by calling out the biden

2:22

ministration a day early wants

2:24

to website this is amazing for

2:26

the government the was one such a way for free covetous

2:29

it's run by united states postal service which

2:32

was confusing at first and as i await we run await

2:35

logistics and shipping the

2:38

government has the thing has the capabilities

2:40

of course do this but i went up a day early

2:42

i know i saw them out there were very late and

2:45

doing all of this the

2:47

recovery one side had more traffic than

2:49

all other dot gov sites combined

2:51

on that this is just nuts

2:53

and had some bumps in the road

2:55

about apartment addresses it said it

2:57

was a small percentage of

2:59

users assess it off as them better in

3:01

and what has also going to distribute

3:04

four hundred four hundred million free and ninety

3:06

five massive pharmacies so so

3:08

here but i'd you know i could literally

3:11

count the days from the announcement from the government

3:13

and single on said the government

3:15

releasing are not releasing a website says my colleague

3:17

they were a day earlier than they said they were gonna be a

3:19

did not crash i gotta say at this

3:21

worked and i was amazed i ordered

3:23

my tests and about five

3:26

seconds and they

3:28

just i just process the oros just like wow

3:30

are we have a functioning government sometimes

3:32

sometimes sometimes some time to time it is

3:35

it functioned sousa's good

3:36

i thought what a sure thing on it was as much as

3:38

some time here i am stiffly commending

3:41

the wants your website i'm glad they found square

3:45

space program or

3:47

else going on who they are sees are week but not a big

3:49

surprise to start this week the

3:51

first thing happened on tuesday monday was on

3:53

his were in the thing they suffer shit happens on to that's

3:56

my sauce and activism as a sixty

3:58

eight point seven billion Alcast

4:01

Microsoft, is by Activision Blizzard

4:03

and all cash 60.72 chocolate

4:12

that but Microsoft, obviously

4:14

own called the only huge franchises to

4:16

make sense, but they're like this is to further

4:19

our metaverse Ambitions, which

4:21

is amazing thing to say a word

4:24

out of of blue. I want

4:26

to talk about that first, but first

4:28

a walk us through the day. what's

4:30

happening and and and you want to talk about

4:32

where activision as as activision company right

4:34

now because it is in a

4:36

that's okay , long

4:39

time ago offensive ceo

4:41

offensive accept gaming with like we are actively

4:43

looking for mergers and acquisitions

4:46

and will are by of everything want to buy hi

4:48

fi one they decided they're one

4:50

other big big purchases today

4:52

after the when they bought minecraft enjoy fourteen

4:55

as they bought the says the that

4:57

that their they make the elder scrolls games

4:59

or they may death loop which was a big

5:02

splash and twenty twenty one is

5:04

huge like a huge gaming

5:06

company so they bought that for six

5:08

billion dollars and then do they

5:10

every gaming reported that i know was woken

5:12

out of their sleep or have cynicism news

5:15

that they are are buying

5:17

one of the biggest publishers in north america

5:20

for about ten times that much i'm actually

5:22

a little bit sad that nobody could find

5:24

it it never hurts to round up another three

5:26

hundred million dollars we can get a nice the

5:29

nine billion but let

5:31

me set up what are you do

5:34

so yet they yet they like the

5:36

activision blizzard was having all of these

5:38

problems stemming from recovery

5:42

the ramp up you can harass in the workplace

5:44

their stock price at hand

5:46

there was a strike know their employees run straight

5:48

from the and

5:49

when you are some employees

5:51

at one of the subsidiaries raven software

5:54

they are in their seventh week of striking

5:56

right now i'm some que a testers

5:58

were moved from Wherever they were to

6:01

Minnesota, they were promised

6:03

all these things and then it

6:05

like 12 of them were laid off and

6:07

they were not given the chance to

6:09

extend her contract or anything like that. So they

6:12

decided that they were going to strike. And they are they

6:14

have been striking since December. They are still

6:16

striking. Today. It's

6:18

funny because in the SEC filings that

6:20

Activision has to do in order like,

6:23

get this deal approved. Babe did not acknowledge. They

6:25

said, their employees are striking.

6:28

I think that might have to do with the fact that there is no

6:30

formal Union at Activision

6:32

Blizzard, which is something that that they working on getting

6:35

fixed, but that's going to take very long

6:37

time. And yeah,

6:39

that they're trying to just

6:41

basically Microsoft unhinged has giant

6:43

jaw and is slowly working

6:45

on following Activision

6:47

Blizzard 68.7

6:51

in the context Microsoft. So

6:53

it's one of the biggest eel swallowing Microsoft

6:55

LinkedIn.

6:59

so, it dwarfs even

7:01

sort of what you might think of as standard microsoft

7:03

deal although the time people like wire by lincoln

7:06

now it's he met office

7:08

you got excel yet legally that made sense like the

7:10

was a good somatic unity their this

7:12

is a bigger the oh and that by

7:15

was and team but say money bought i

7:17

mean activision actually makes money

7:19

i think that's part of it you know like candice

7:22

microsoft alone is like about then

7:24

a year like of right part of it i

7:26

think when they bought linton part meter

7:28

remeron but i don't think linton was making

7:30

money and you mean the

7:32

the members right of of all this is

7:35

candice money does is you candice part all

7:37

they does the and one sent of is say the the

7:39

publish the microsoft but i

7:41

members all of right and , you get

7:43

the emails right like we publish the

7:45

email that that say spencer

7:48

sent you know the team members

7:50

a microsoft about buying activision

7:52

and then the one saint the sent all microsoft

7:54

and this all spencer email does not

7:57

say the word members one and

7:59

that's and that's to employees

8:01

a but when you're talking to investors it's

8:04

metaverse metaverse metaverse i think this just

8:06

fully encapsulates what metaverse

8:08

has become which is a meaningless buzzword

8:11

that ceos want to use like

8:13

walmart a like

8:16

nothing just a as should some

8:18

point to say we are innovative

8:21

and to thought the is right it i think

8:23

email the we that every the from are are

8:25

forget is like enterprise and every

8:27

which is something i try to forget

8:29

the moment i say it every time and

8:32

think this just this there's nothing this

8:34

nothing this that of are point right like there's

8:37

nothing which and of is that is going to make which to

8:39

and that are are make

8:41

make are something email to really a

8:43

a are at that to company which which

8:45

that a are going are to every

8:48

a it's gaming it's just a lot of money

8:50

for every from successful successful

8:52

gaming company and it should just be that i

8:54

i don't really i just thought the email

8:56

from faces spencer are showed that

8:59

to faces this of the that of are and

9:01

going to as the the interesting

9:03

thing of at as is and make and just

9:05

and of it email and and spencer are to

9:07

should like as like a

9:10

to like should and enterprise do

9:12

you swear there are you want to run on their own

9:15

the the huge franchises but the way

9:17

the company is built is like a lot

9:19

of somewhat independent studios the

9:21

way microsoft is built now is

9:24

especially with its acquisitions somewhat independent

9:26

like linton has a ceo github has

9:28

ceo microsoft doesn't mess

9:31

with them to much this one is like

9:33

we're buying activision phil spencer

9:35

is getting promoted to ceo microsoft

9:38

gaming and he will oversee

9:40

activision which is just not what you would

9:42

expect like just both

9:45

especially how both these companies of kind structured

9:47

this stuff part of that i think

9:49

there's there's a big question whether the sea of activism

9:51

bobby kotick is going to stay what

9:53

it really does make sense to you that would also roll

9:55

up under spencer so it's interesting

9:58

that you set out in phrase that and that way if

10:00

if if be

10:01

gun to well that it's been done specific

10:03

way because we wanna get rid of bobby kotick

10:05

about to go to get ceo of attrition

10:07

blizzard when

10:09

all of his stuff about wow how blizzard was running

10:11

a company with coming out about all these like out

10:13

dozens of harassment and discrimination in the views of

10:16

came out like the are there was

10:18

a wall street journal report later

10:20

after that saying that by the code it was cut in on it

10:23

like he knew what was going on and enabled

10:25

it and participated in some of the abuse himself

10:27

and it's just been nonsense from

10:30

employees separate of by the correct there

10:32

were about to correct and it would be interesting to see

10:34

if like been our shareholders as their stock

10:36

prices are taking i like youngest and by this guy

10:39

who are enabling all of this abuse

10:41

within the company for thirty years are all

10:43

of that everything has happened under his watch

10:45

but they're like i don't want an affair with him and

10:49

we ever been up and coming out of

10:51

the big thing was that the correct

10:53

will stay as we

10:55

transition and that's what and i don't think

10:57

anybody can like legally say like

10:59

oh we're going to get rid of them it's delicious deal is done but

11:01

i think that's what everybody is thinking

11:04

at least that's what everybody hoping for this

11:06

i move move move move now

11:09

having a bit of with a roll up head of

11:11

the things that makes it seem like you

11:13

once is deal is done and activision

11:15

has been fully absorbed into the microsoft know

11:18

family that he is

11:20

gone and whether or not someone else

11:22

will be pay any price like someone internally

11:24

or is it just you know phil spencer

11:26

is now had of activision blizzard you remains to

11:28

be seen right right now

11:31

they just you're playing like

11:33

how can i decided a mouth about what they're going to do it bobby

11:35

kotick and is it's like okay i guess we just have

11:37

to wait

11:38

and i would point out the and the timeline

11:40

is steel's really long walk they're saying

11:42

it's going to close before the

11:45

end of microsoft's fiscal year twenty

11:47

twenty three which is june

11:49

twenty twenty three so the

11:52

your ass is actively so like

11:54

a lot of things can happen in it's eighteen

11:56

months the i don't think they could say

11:58

it's going to close potential the easy missouri

12:00

in the current ceos gone looks really

12:02

gotta say their through this the or closing

12:05

the big question what happens after the deal closes

12:08

there's no way he's going stock he's going to make hundreds

12:11

of millions of dollars off of this he's

12:13

not going to wonder report to for spencer

12:15

he's been the ceo of this company for decades

12:18

um , he's like super and

12:20

battle as we've all just been talking about i mean there's

12:22

why would he want to stick through any kind

12:24

of transition like that's i mean i guess thinking

12:27

about this like the shareholders saying they back into

12:29

i wonder if when they said that they knew about

12:31

the microsoft negotiations and report

12:34

knew that their in talking to get a forty five percent

12:36

premium on their stock and cash and like of

12:38

course their going to back him if that's happening um

12:41

it's kind of a gross situation isn't it

12:43

i mean to to see kind of the reporting

12:45

that's come out about the culture and then realize that

12:47

like all these executives are just going to make a boatload

12:49

of money and kind get a graceful accent

12:52

accent that just history their to

12:54

out and that's cash think kodi

12:57

been accent isn't just

12:59

accent isn't out of bankruptcy

13:01

thirty one years ago for four

13:03

hundred thousand dollars the

13:05

more like he's been there for thirty one years

13:08

he bought the thing and then made in call

13:10

of duty and cheney crushing world of warcraft in

13:12

the at like that's all you

13:14

can see why there's a long history

13:17

because that is it just might be the founder

13:19

when it was it it's his company it was

13:21

built in his image out of the wreckage of what

13:23

was activists and animal merger

13:25

with blizzard but the revel

13:27

a i think that question is like microsoft

13:30

issued a statement phil spencer is like after

13:32

these allegations came out he said

13:34

to employees were re evaluating our relationship

13:36

with this company the saudis are the same

13:39

thing in an end in kind of the

13:41

same here is like buying it for in a discount

13:43

one assumes that he got he took

13:45

a discount because this thing i think assign

13:47

case about he's like it was a wounded gazelle

13:50

if it isn't so didn't own i'm serious

13:52

i do you see that that long

13:54

history play a part

13:57

in the fact that he's not leaving soon

13:59

or like the

14:00

sold like there's there's a good reason

14:02

for microsoft to buy it i'm trying for out why why

14:04

he sold if he wasn't going to ever let go

14:06

don't know

14:07

the question right i think it might have

14:09

to do about okay he needs an exit

14:12

plan and he needs the next eponymous

14:14

and look as good as possible i guess

14:16

i don't know i'm in the way the room

14:19

this as this as like a keynesian falls

14:21

is that you know they were looking for someone

14:23

to buy them they were looking

14:25

at matter for were like hey mehta

14:27

come over here you know we my gotta watch

14:30

and then i guess meadow declined or something him

14:32

and and murders of like hey we're here with a bullet

14:34

a casual take it so have

14:36

any know that know that happen any

14:39

the the the timing is suspect

14:41

that is sound like this deal with

14:43

something that happened in the last month

14:46

meanwhile this whole this

14:48

explosion of news about what's going on in a

14:50

company has ruled out over the last like six

14:52

month the summer of last year

14:55

so we heard of we started her hearing about this in

14:57

june they've been in a blizzard

14:59

has been like suit up and down by like every government

15:01

agencies that you can be sued by for something like

15:03

this are all throughout the summer it

15:05

as a result walk out the wall street journal

15:08

of thing came out i think in

15:10

like maybe november but as

15:12

we are hearing you know how the still went down

15:15

like this with a with best kind of deal

15:17

like it happened in the last month or so so

15:19

maybe they were reevaluating

15:21

their relationship and you know after

15:23

that point like you we have evaluated is another we

15:25

decided that we want to buy it

15:28

the matter thing is fascinating cause medicare even

15:30

by jesse so the idea that

15:32

they could five you know the

15:34

world's second largest

15:36

third largest game publishers you know

15:39

colossal because colossal yeah

15:41

to get by a thanks but i you

15:43

know i think like the army

15:45

bobby cody gave this interview adventure beat i don't

15:47

know if we all reddit we did i thought was

15:49

pretty interesting because it was it was

15:51

a he's pretty franklin was also i didn't

15:53

they can't compete with tack they can't compete

15:56

with the scale of these companies and

15:58

like you know the sheet of these companies

16:01

an if you're one a i so like to me that suggests

16:03

like ea maybe next like netflix

16:05

buying ea i think would make a lot sense if

16:07

netflix is really serious about gaming so

16:10

i thought that was just interesting angle too that like maybe

16:12

activision just getting a forty five percent

16:14

premium in the you're twenty twenty too ahead of

16:17

very likely you know major stock

16:19

market research was a really

16:21

good deal and like sometimes the best

16:24

thing as a see i was like knowing when to take the deal i

16:26

don't know anything about that as

16:27

it makes me think that this is not

16:29

about the video game i mean

16:32

it's obviously not if i'm usually about the money but

16:34

by because it in that interview the was talking about

16:36

like cloud gaming and

16:38

a are and all these things that activision

16:41

blizzard is not in a position to do because

16:43

bleeding talent because sucks to work there have

16:47

so , with they're cloud

16:49

gaming offerings a are

16:51

in a much better position to you know do

16:53

whatever it is that activision wants to do but

16:56

i mean cloud gaming is really cool like

16:58

really cool the idea that i can you know turn on my phone

17:00

and connect xbox or whatever and like stream

17:02

spirit dragon on my cell phone that

17:05

not don't really think about the average gamer

17:07

they don't care about that stuff that they don't care

17:09

they just want to have the console and play

17:11

the game and that's what activision was doing

17:14

they were making the games that people want play like

17:16

people want to play call a duty on

17:18

whatever you know whatever and

17:20

it doesn't really better to them if activision blizzard

17:22

has a cloud service or not

17:24

but i guess apparently and matters to the shareholders

17:27

so this isn't like a games okay

17:29

kind of deal this is like how do we remain

17:32

competitive and they're not competing with sony

17:34

or ea any more they're competing with

17:36

facebook the negative thought

17:38

from a place that you know that was you know

17:40

that we we are led to believe is a gaming

17:42

company first important

17:44

not anymore so knock the power of spiral

17:47

because i have , far as great

17:49

by every company when they do a dji merger

17:51

they say it's because they can't compete with attack

17:53

science like it's ,

17:55

it's it's what you so hideous speeding ticket

17:58

you like officer and i was trying

18:00

with google and like all

18:02

purpose excuse to do whatever

18:04

you want sometimes my thought is like

18:06

i don't

18:07

why why does activision blizzard

18:09

has to compete with the tech companies

18:12

who they should be competing with a square

18:14

enix his eating their lunch every day

18:16

you know with was warcraft vs on fantasy

18:18

fourteen how they get that in their promise

18:20

of a home because stuff

18:23

so they didn't make games they make you know these

18:25

experiences that people want to play like who care

18:27

what facebook is doing that is not your lane you have

18:29

a lane stay at it but shareholder the like we

18:32

gotta get on all this other stuff so i guess

18:34

that's why we're here and the validation about why

18:36

think there's a there's a big parallel here the

18:39

most set aside the

18:40

it's hard to devote set aside a sort of big

18:42

culture issues we'd have spoken

18:45

to such an hour before resorting to

18:47

sell and and they say loudly

18:49

they care about culture microsoft huge company

18:52

obviously has problems just because of scale

18:54

but overall they've spent a lot time making

18:56

sure the culture microsoft a

18:59

candy these immigrations candy is generally stable

19:01

don't assume they can fix the biggest but was soon

19:03

becomes exits what they're looking at his

19:06

the him as which is

19:09

yeah that that's a big bet on the future

19:11

of games they're looking at

19:14

met ever stuff like you need game engines

19:16

to do some of the things they are talking

19:19

about doing in a metaverse you

19:21

see all over the place and ,

19:23

think they're also looking at was

19:25

he shifts the distribution of games

19:27

from selling a sixty dollar

19:30

physical copy or six your digital copy

19:32

to any sinuses subscription

19:34

service the economics of the industry's

19:37

radically change with said it we seen that in

19:39

the music industry probably most dramatically

19:41

long we're seeing that play out

19:44

interested absolutely chaotic

19:46

what hidden in film and television was

19:48

streaming services isn't a bet that

19:50

it's just that same thing is gonna come

19:52

to games isn't that really when they're saying we

19:54

can compete with that science them same the

19:56

distribution is in a it taken away from us

19:59

the we have to go to

20:01

there's expertise and were in the channel otherwise

20:04

we get crushed by i don't know that

20:06

an argument will come true but we seen it musically

20:08

seen it and tv is any reason

20:10

for every once in games we're we're

20:12

going to say it

20:13

i mean we've already seen the path of come out with

20:15

like these experts at

20:16

that you can buy with your tv

20:18

so you can you in games with your game past

20:21

subscription from your tv without

20:23

the need for any kind of council

20:25

those told me that and dakota and services

20:28

yeah like so that that's what it is so

20:31

in addition to like distribution

20:33

process being disrupted in order make that work

20:35

microsoft needs content they

20:37

have heard of the city as now and

20:40

this enormous clark

20:42

a beloved games or the dragon

20:44

foremost among them of course now it's

20:47

, pass it has already becoming a

20:50

deal added just like amazing

20:53

i can't imagine the twenty twenty that we have this you

20:55

know subscription service where i pay dollars a

20:57

month and i can play almost about whatever

20:59

i want they need content to the

21:02

time this and i'll cancel future

21:04

that their a visionary and i couldn't believe

21:06

it is right there so it all fits

21:08

together that way yeah

21:10

i mean i don't personally i don't think that's necessarily

21:13

something activision blizzard has to do they just make

21:15

the game will get out there to people they

21:17

just make am i going to do is make of you don't have

21:19

to be every one to everything just

21:22

that is that you do and you do it pretty well

21:24

culture issues aside so

21:27

didn't i guess what

21:29

the future we're looking at me

21:31

while we're on the microsoft angle here i think it's

21:33

also interesting to look at what microsoft didn't

21:35

do leading up to this point this was maybe

21:38

their third or even fourth big

21:40

in a transaction they've tried to make in the last

21:42

couple of years i think it's very interesting

21:45

that the one they finally got through was

21:47

in gaming when we know they looked

21:49

at tick tock we know they looked at discord

21:52

those reports that they were about how they only look

21:54

at tick tock because the trump administration

21:56

shore like donald trump said on a plane

21:58

i'm banning take time and

22:00

and microsoft ended up in a room saying like what

22:03

is feeling on where kind of i means will you

22:05

and i were in the room when nadella was talking about

22:07

this at code and he kind of gave

22:09

it a little bit of a different story were was actually

22:11

to talking approaching microsoft about cloud help

22:13

and any way but like i'm saying that

22:15

almost happened right and then discord

22:17

they tried to buy discord there was report in the ft

22:20

they looked at penis they've had hole

22:22

and there pocket for the last couple of years and

22:24

i have a feeling they think that they or one of the last

22:26

large multi platform

22:29

saying couple that can do deal like this

22:31

i'm there was some congressmen saying to

22:33

the washington post like i i'm sure

22:36

they have the best intentions or something with this

22:38

which like imagine any member

22:40

of congress saying that about meta or

22:42

you know google in in this kind of situation

22:45

so the have all this good will and the have all this money they need

22:47

to do something and they finally landed an

22:49

this i don't really know what it all means i

22:51

just think it's important to look at like the history they got

22:53

up to this point

22:54

yeah i do actually wanted to talk

22:56

about an interest a little bit brussels gonna come

22:58

on in a second segment there's the i trust detect

23:01

an actress bill was in

23:04

the senate there is mark of hearing

23:06

today the got dramatic but

23:08

on tuesday mike as awesome as as

23:10

a steal the same day we're

23:13

gone at the fcc and the avatar

23:15

injustice have a press conference

23:18

to announce new merger of these guidelines because

23:20

they're saying companies her too concentrated are

23:23

, on has been on the has listen

23:26

like she things the economy is to concentrated

23:28

now she's in charge of the t c so

23:30

literally things happen in parallel obviously

23:33

don't think either side knew that was going to happen

23:35

microsoft may have because congrats

23:38

references been settled out but it's

23:40

natural to connect the two six and

23:43

i i think microsoft really

23:45

does believe it's played it it is very

23:48

good washington it

23:50

is a major supplier to the government a

23:52

brad smith president chief legal officer microsoft

23:54

is great it politics a

23:57

the quote your noting alex

23:59

is a from representative can that

24:01

he's one of the republican

24:03

congress people who is a supporter

24:06

of and i trust reform and he's like i've

24:08

received encouraging assurances from i suspect

24:11

he'll have decreased competition way

24:13

to go brad if they keep their promises

24:15

for the the ist es in and history

24:17

of course for never said they suggested are going to

24:19

emphasize access to titles and competition

24:21

in the marketplace as well

24:23

the individual gaming experience

24:26

oh that's beautiful and there's is it

24:28

really a policy go higher than the individual game

24:30

experience if there's anything we know about

24:32

multi billion dollar transactions in the us

24:35

is that the company's always keep their word especially

24:37

you see nobles friends they always tease

24:40

there were

24:41

and so we should only assume that microsoft walls

24:43

well mean that to me is

24:45

right microsoft is going to they're going to face

24:47

the regulatory scrutiny and kara

24:49

swisher and drosera actually had lena

24:51

kon on kara's podcast suede

24:54

times they asked about activation

24:56

very directly like so happening

24:58

on same day yes she had to defer

25:00

she train and she made pretty clear

25:02

like there were obviously gonna look at this

25:05

they're working it everything right now

25:08

and i think that the idea that this will to

25:10

sail through is a

25:12

little optimistic matter optimistic that they're

25:14

buying within which makes supernatural for five hundred

25:16

million dollars in the ftc looking at that like

25:18

there's a lot of scrutiny or the seal so i

25:20

guess at it's eighteen months out the

25:22

in their own predicted cleansing a

25:24

lot of things can happen and eighteen months i'd be

25:27

insertion i used to orators was like do not

25:29

just take us are granted we have know what

25:32

, bodies are sick get up to the next

25:34

eighteen months like it could be anything

25:36

right what will the regulators do the same us

25:38

will this an interest bill that we see in

25:40

congress today pass

25:43

in seems the stakes for lot of these deals we

25:45

don't know know of the wanna provisions

25:47

and surface bill things

25:50

, made one is companies around

25:52

platforms can't preference her own products

25:54

on the plaza this is honestly

25:57

very targeted amazon very targeted

25:59

app stores but if you running a microsoft

26:01

game pass and you want to call

26:04

of duty at the top of the certain like that's

26:06

your problem that's a big platform

26:08

that you'll be covered so there's a lot to happen

26:10

the next eighteen months as as you

26:13

both ssh my favorite little

26:15

pieces story just because he's worth it to talk to

26:17

was

26:18

the make it fit of desperation atavisms

26:20

like will just by should have oh my god

26:22

so the moving

26:24

yeah it's funny because of

26:26

like ten years ago or something that that

26:28

kotaku did a joke post that they had been

26:30

bought by is bobby suppose no

26:33

one there is the palpable

26:35

for everything

26:36

it's very good money thing happens

26:38

next year and assume

26:39

god i don't know somebody somebody

26:42

by us off that's what's gonna happen i'm

26:44

like all of the big people like everybody

26:47

at sony is like okay who can we buy

26:50

a think with this deal like even though

26:52

sony still eclipses microsoft a little bit

26:54

in like market share

26:56

and how many studios they own and you

26:58

know they're output or whatever they're they're

27:00

probably going to buy someone is probably

27:02

going be square next and that'll probably make me very

27:04

sad um that

27:07

are you know i don't know it

27:10

what happened from the next eighteen months at

27:12

at fox the olive

27:15

duty will come out a everything

27:17

that has a already you know

27:19

existing deals and place for multi platform will

27:21

come out and then it anybody's game

27:23

when when microsoft bought bethesda

27:26

last , they were like will honor

27:28

our exclusivity deals with playstation

27:31

whenever and that's why we see death loop on

27:33

playstation which was very good game and

27:35

but now like bethesda's you know first

27:38

new ip in forever starfield

27:40

is xbox exclusive and it's day

27:42

in date with game pass game the eldest

27:44

girl six whenever that happens it may not

27:46

who knows and xbox exclusive so

27:49

you know that a real concern right now that

27:52

you know games like call of duty which is like

27:54

this big multi platform thing will

27:57

eventually be eventually and exclude

28:00

the game and you know right now

28:02

the the words are we're

28:05

, honor all of our existing deals

28:07

which is exactly what they said with the says that but we're

28:09

committed to keeping call of duty on playstation because

28:11

that's the big thing that everybody's worried about it

28:13

now but you know you don't fall

28:17

how many per ticket billion dollars

28:19

and still in a given all of your other

28:21

stuff to multi platform is to you're essentially your

28:23

competitors the interesting point to

28:26

that kind of pointed out rather is my our

28:28

mindset which is still everywhere

28:30

i'm so maybe you know they'll be strategic

28:32

about it may be call of duty as the thing that they do

28:34

cheap multi platform but you know you can

28:36

get world of warcraft on your game pass

28:39

description and that that

28:40

no i cannot wait for the you tube conspiracy

28:43

videos were like the next version call of duty

28:46

pointing out the graphics on the x box it ever

28:48

so slightly better demographics

28:50

, playstation and might be running

28:52

with a conspiracy theory i mean that

28:55

to me is just assassinating

28:57

dynamic great lakes with serious

28:59

with the past year and year half right the big

29:01

argument at the studios hollywood is

29:04

don't day and eight us and you're streaming service give

29:06

us the theatrical release

29:09

microsoft doing day and that game pass no one seems

29:11

to be mad about that

29:13

even thus building a pretty substantial

29:15

mot for microsoft do

29:17

see them ever doing a thing where game

29:19

pass subscribers get a game first and

29:21

then there's and window to buy it and then there's and playstation

29:23

window

29:24

there might be i think there's

29:27

there's a little bit of that going on with a pass already

29:29

so game passes integrated with yeah with

29:31

play which offers a offers

29:33

the a game the what the

29:36

brand new he again and are available on game

29:38

pass for like a certain window for like a certain

29:41

amount and then it shuts down so you have the option

29:43

to buy it so you might see of a retooling

29:45

of that but yeah

29:48

a yeah is anybody's guess

29:50

because it is such a big thing

29:52

but if we look at what microsoft has already

29:54

done with bethesda it's the

29:58

after the pretty clear world map for what the

30:00

damage is activision blizzard games like it's gonna be

30:02

day a date with with with game pass

30:04

and if you want to buy a year to new gonna buy

30:07

it but you can only

30:08

be able to get it on either your pc or your xbox

30:10

or your phone through through cloud gaming said

30:13

steel is your take eighteen months who knows will happen

30:15

platforms a with regulation

30:18

the phone thing is really fascinating right because right

30:20

now

30:21

apple won't let you put a game screen map on their phone

30:23

google will very begrudgingly let do it

30:27

do you solve that problem is they think that that's

30:29

actually realistically her i have no idea with map in there

30:31

and this is mitigation monsters also wanted

30:33

over think it but the stomach and he

30:35

might sure it was a break the

30:38

come back when he speaks

30:40

give her back

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t a i k u com

32:10

the back mr he

32:12

is

32:13

metaverse supporter extraordinary oh

32:15

man and paste science is either

32:17

that or the policy cloth which by

32:19

the way came out and then they were instructions

32:21

on how to clean the apple paulson cloth this

32:23

week which surprisingly

32:26

were not to buy enough

34:00

barely lived and and they

34:02

killed quickly as oculus took off

34:05

and then they bought this this a ar glasses

34:07

company called north in twenty twenty

34:09

and canada was doing kind of smart glasses

34:11

kind of more bare bones google glasses stuff

34:14

and they still work at google a but i think

34:16

probably on something else so yeah google's

34:19

you know googles going google they're going to look

34:21

at everything but they're definitely hiring up for

34:23

this right now and wanting to make it more of a priority

34:26

and throwing a bunch of head count and budget at

34:28

at so the headset wars ar

34:30

on

36:00

the offices for talking with your colleagues

36:02

who aren't in the office that day a

36:04

and they're also planning pilot program

36:06

with some various fortune five hundred companies

36:09

to also try to get starline in they're you know deployed

36:11

in those companies the problem is is that

36:13

it's like i said incredibly expensive and

36:15

they're focused on you know trying to get it under like

36:17

ten thousand a but they're also

36:20

targeting twenty twenty for for

36:22

trying to get starline the door and some commercial

36:24

fashion and also iris i think

36:26

both of those years dates are very

36:28

aspirational in

36:30

these companies you kind of need to give the

36:33

you kind of need give everyone date to marshal

36:35

around otherwise you just kind of twiddle your thumbs

36:37

forever and i've feeling that's more of what this what

36:40

this thing is is like all these headsets

36:42

are going to hitting around the same time and i think all

36:45

have the companies are going wow we who's

36:47

going to be first who's going to have the best thing and

36:49

google i have a feeling the

36:52

had a little bit a formal here because

36:54

they have the resources they've had you

36:56

know when as a point the sorry i put this on the sorry

36:58

but you know claim

37:00

of or and his team with daydream they had

37:03

basically the arduous quest before

37:06

, first ottawa's quest the and on outside

37:08

my the one where you put a phone and i'm talking about the truly

37:10

untethered standalone vr

37:12

they had a really good at prototype

37:15

of that and they just never shipped it cause they got

37:17

distracted by a arquette and then they

37:19

did a our core and lands and all these things

37:21

to ghouls has been very flighty with it's investments

37:24

in there and as i say gonna be the biggest thing to watch

37:26

as can i stay focused and invest

37:28

aggressively and us in as to match

37:31

matter which is spending the most

37:33

by far and apple which is low key

37:35

has thousands of people as young as and

37:37

is willing to bet the farm is it

37:39

needs to south's it's

37:41

gonna be interesting to watch him enclave of or has is very

37:43

interesting position where he's now the

37:46

vp of labs and he used this

37:48

unit was created just last year i

37:50

think year i november and he was moved out from

37:52

regale solo the head of hardware reporting

37:54

directly to sundar and his camp

37:56

is projects are star line iris

37:59

switch not a known until my report this

38:01

week a new block chain division which

38:04

was just also reporting on this week so

38:06

he said all kind of the weird stuff but it's a he's

38:08

definitely like very tight with sundar bragging

38:11

about budget and headcount all that so i think

38:13

you know this is definitely and area to watch i'm also

38:15

just like take a healthy dose

38:18

of skepticism with any google

38:20

a ar stuff because they have not shown

38:23

their willing to see it through to the end

38:25

mean that's google when you're like can google stay

38:27

focused like i can can point and to any

38:29

number of

38:30

messaging apps right right like that

38:33

i think is the biggest knock on google is the

38:35

i pick one thing and iterative stadium they

38:37

had some it looks like the question was too

38:40

that's gotta hurt right to request to

38:43

is a great product we like announce it's to

38:45

mid range and rates on the were in a sling it runs

38:47

android that right has a qualcomm

38:49

but prospectively midrange costs on processor

38:52

and it heading for there is room for the face of try

38:54

to move away from android

38:56

and make their own operating system and a dozen fish

38:58

with denied it and you're still working on it

39:01

the interesting interesting so google

39:04

operates the person the person who is going

39:06

operates operates this interesting google

39:08

who operates a very it's

39:12

it's a very interesting talent so interesting person

39:14

a is a like the

39:17

who going is a is interesting very person

39:19

very talent in this in talent so it's

39:21

going this like the a so

39:23

person this this in like interesting

39:26

the is in so this

39:28

google this operates going the in

39:30

google is is the who so going in this

39:32

this this the talent this google

39:34

in this who going google in a

39:36

a this a like so operates going the

39:38

a going a talent the talent

39:41

the going a like who so interesting

39:43

in the like google is a operates operates

39:45

going google talent very very talent person

39:48

this google this a the talent

39:50

the talent in the very talent

39:52

this this is going so like very

39:55

in this it's going like a this is like interesting

39:57

this going is talent very google a

39:59

it's be heading into next couple years based

40:01

on whatever was working on i've been

40:03

very skeptical as that hardware promise

40:05

and the so i think it's very challenging but

40:08

such as a way of hardware right it will it will improve

40:11

the enemy question i have is like

40:12

the software side what is a point

40:15

of some the stuff like facebook has

40:17

made it pretty clear rather just buy everything

40:19

they're really invested in gaming

40:22

they've got

40:23

meetings innocuous horizon workspace

40:26

right even they have a picture

40:28

kids are shipping stuff so the picture

40:31

is a least a little bit coherence is because exists

40:34

apple is pretty unclear to me

40:35

what they expect you to the only way missing in your face on

40:38

there is or for the they don't they don't want to

40:40

use the word metaverse

40:41

they don't i use were had settled hey it's like in and

40:43

out we'll see google

40:46

is by far the most question

40:48

mark he of them all

40:49

like is they they our interesting and is of wear

40:51

ideas and and that what was who going

40:54

head someone's which i think is arguably

40:56

the most compelling thing you could

40:58

imagine i know you're killer up is like recognizing

41:00

someone's face and i killer up

41:03

but like like fans on headset

41:05

that you wear all day and this is not what ideas

41:07

is guy the is not what happen developers going

41:09

be we need a separate these to things

41:11

to like our like is you will i you wear very

41:13

day not come in for very long time in a like

41:15

very could for in fans these very

41:17

expensive ideas headset our the

41:20

and , think even something like like on headset

41:22

like that could be compelling even if you're mostly

41:24

in you're headset you're of this and like

41:27

the you know i right for like the head of the guy

41:29

who founded assistant guy happen with going was

41:31

working on this headset like they

41:33

happen the they happen a i

41:35

machine working time three do

41:37

something interesting but you're right i mean mean

41:40

not for even what will be i mean going and happen

41:42

most platform companies and the wear

41:44

they approach categories is like like

41:46

the developers this i right like the i for

41:48

face mostly do of and happen for up julie

41:50

head know ideas what was going happen with the

41:52

up for and approach going

41:55

be the same thing with the headset they going to will they going developers

41:57

to come up with ideas for it

42:59

with google doesn't have

43:01

that even with andrew right like

43:03

there is some productivity and gaming

43:06

the happens on the i was far from you could see the

43:08

smell prisoners over you see

43:10

his face was just like building that application ecosystem

43:12

and buying whoever successful that's

43:14

a great move for them and sketch he was inserted

43:16

in the ntc i i just

43:19

don't how google's going to court those developers like that

43:21

to me is the big question mark here

43:23

we see every year at io right like

43:25

that's their developer conference we

43:28

hear about a lot of technology is a good was going to build

43:31

in and we just like kind of

43:33

wait and i i just

43:35

wonder like to me the idea they're doing it themselves

43:37

into hardware software integrated product and

43:39

it's not a v r o s

43:41

for other vendors to build it's

43:44

just like very indicative of schools

43:46

entire experience

43:48

yeah i mean this is running custom silicone

43:51

using pixel stars as well yeah

43:53

it is very indicative se yeah

43:56

i mean some of the the feedback i've gotten already from the stories

43:58

like developers just don't trust google obviously

44:00

and were burned by daydream and

44:02

a lot of that developer tension is now just

44:04

and met as world firmly also because

44:06

there is no other company to speak of that's

44:09

actually doing stuff in the space to that's

44:11

going a definite be an uphill mean

44:13

they have more money than god so like you know

44:15

if they have enough determination they

44:17

can make it happen but it's that's always

44:19

the question with google is like what is their level have

44:22

determination and with metta you

44:24

know the it is like it is have

44:27

is bet the farm right is like this

44:30

is this is our future google has

44:32

a lot things going on and yes and our

44:34

may think this is cool and they may have some fomo and

44:36

they may realize they need a headset but they'll

44:39

, fine if they don't right and so that's

44:41

the question is like like they

44:43

hire enough people to cause the town

44:45

industry and the space is very is very

44:47

i'm now is the liquid right now

44:49

so i'm i'm very skeptical

44:51

this one but thought was important to like kind of peel

44:54

the veil back a little bit and show people that google has

44:56

something going on they been kind hinting at it but it's

44:58

definitely a thing it's very early

45:00

they don't even have like go to market figured out they don't even

45:02

know like the customer the they're

45:05

still trying to figure that out but it's like apparently a pretty

45:07

cool tec emo so that's like

45:09

kind google on enough show right it's very

45:11

much you wanna sell his own open

45:14

there's a there's a real as

45:15

this inacio that last question

45:18

all these products are the i phone model right

45:21

clothes software hardware and agree maybe as this

45:23

is a very hard product to build and

45:25

to get right it it just

45:28

feels like there's no

45:29

there's no windows of of vr vr

45:32

no i mean maybe google maybe

45:34

google you no with daydream they worked with novo

45:37

on the hardware maybe they will work

45:39

with know a m you know the moment these headsets hit

45:41

samsung is going be calling google

45:44

they're going be calling meta and going

45:46

yeah ike hello where's my headsets right like

45:48

the o yeah are going to want in on this and

45:50

google's well positioned to do that given

45:52

they're history in how they operate so like maybe they will

45:54

go that route again i they are

45:56

platform thinking company so i could see

45:58

that but yeah i think they realize like apple

46:00

and meta that you need the custom

46:03

silicone you need and

46:05

your own data centers another part of this is that

46:07

you know they're wanting to do kind of remote rendering

46:09

with their data centers and try to like take some

46:11

of the compute off the head side and google's very good

46:13

at that they have i'm real best

46:15

in class cloud so like the have

46:17

a lot of the resources to do it themselves

46:20

and i think they've lost to make the best product

46:22

you kind of need to do it yourself you can't really

46:24

rely on like peace milling everything together

46:27

and i don't know what that means for like the clock arms

46:29

of the world i'm going forward

46:31

because i i don't see a future where the

46:33

largest companies want to rely on

46:36

a very distributed supply chain for the stack

46:38

anymore it looks like we're past that era yeah

46:41

we had cause i'm ceo percent

46:43

on percent the wifi only owner and he was

46:45

like

46:46

i'm in everything like i'm in the hawaiians

46:49

were in the arduous were good on the teacher

46:52

guy , he was like the next

46:54

market for us is not sounds it's not sounds

46:56

so

46:57

i think there's some interest there if anything

46:59

they could be the android honestly qualcomm with

47:01

that reference design and niantic and

47:03

you know if anything that might be how it plays

47:05

out is the chip makers and some kind

47:07

of weird smaller third

47:09

party you know companies that don't have

47:12

big platforms already they'll band together

47:14

and do something i don't see google

47:16

or apple or metta becoming

47:18

like a build on top of my platform

47:20

type company i just don't think the cause like if you're

47:22

investing billions of dollars to build this stuff like

47:24

what is the or away on that like just giving it away

47:26

right truly loaded

47:28

future raf multiple headsets a

47:30

master and thirty five come

47:32

on you tube is on this had said is in the be an amazing

47:35

caesar for honest i we i take

47:37

a break we lack of russell brand i'm alex as

47:39

as great as you are

47:45

music is it really news i can tell all

47:47

the parts become one drums

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bass vocals may be some cowbell

47:52

it a lot like business until all

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the separate parts of your company are working together

47:56

so it's impossible to achieve your goals

47:58

without harmony air table can

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48:54

he thought you'd seen the last of me a specific

48:56

here i am is a sunni man down

48:58

dieter who's just

49:00

the director raised it is

49:03

going to be the semi wild ride said is too big

49:05

stories on talk about with you what

49:07

start with the five g

49:09

debacle because i think reasons it's

49:11

not over yet but i think we get through pretty quickly so

49:14

even time us for weeks it

49:16

appears the major airlines

49:18

and this country have not been listening to the verge fast

49:21

not fast not enough makassar

49:23

but we haven't timers for weeks so eighty

49:25

ti and rise and launched their see

49:27

band size you know are some mid been fighting

49:29

the good stuff and so they are they were set

49:32

to launch of the few weeks ago the essay

49:34

in the airlines had a little bit of a panic

49:36

because the mid man five

49:38

he might interfere with radar altimeter

49:41

is in flames they agree to delay

49:43

it the fcc an essay

49:45

i have just been in fighting which is really

49:48

weird yeah in in this

49:50

week the airlines right here launching this

49:52

thing is scheduled they'll be catastrophic

49:56

disruption to flights in america in

49:58

everyone scrambled some they were cancelled

50:00

and on particular on some boeing planes

50:04

my internationally seven seven seven in

50:06

everything seems to be saw his yes

50:08

enemy bed did want some people seem to like

50:11

it what is going on here i will say

50:13

and i'm a little like i don't have

50:15

perfect information and obviously a bunch

50:17

of airlines were saying like

50:20

scary things as they've been saying this

50:22

whole time and i don't discount that

50:24

but i

50:26

have not seen the catastrophic disruption

50:30

right like i think we have seen flights

50:32

cancelled but there are lots of flights cancelled i

50:34

don't think we seem like a

50:36

, shutdown of air travel ain't

50:38

no fretted their work extra things

50:40

that even carrier super they

50:42

said okay look we won't turn on the towers

50:45

that are right next to these major airports

50:47

for another however long

50:50

but i

50:53

am i have been waiting to get

50:55

proven wrong that this

50:58

is not actually a big deal

51:00

and they're worrying over nothing and i have not

51:03

seen anything that

51:06

convinces me that this is

51:08

actually a problem and not just

51:11

the airlines being overly cautious which is like understandable

51:14

invalid and fine but i

51:17

feel like a me and

51:19

it wasn't like there was

51:21

no catastrophic disruptive they said thomas rafik

51:23

disruption on like where is

51:26

though one thing we should know

51:28

from a job these five zero the

51:30

frequencies are being used around the world yes

51:33

yeah that seems to be fine other places

51:35

to it's been years

51:38

since eighteen seen her eyes and purchase

51:40

the spectrum everyone is known

51:43

as been coming yep i

51:45

mean i'm just trying to get to like the president of

51:47

emirates airlines was like this

51:49

is the greatest debacle that i've ever experienced

51:51

my life as an airline executives how

51:54

did that happen well i mean it's been a

51:56

it's been a smooth i

51:58

don't assessment of with decade for and

52:00

i don't the the thing i would say

52:02

is and this is where it does get tricky so it's

52:04

true getting forty i mean this is like in

52:07

some ways what the telecoms

52:09

keep saying is it's it's used in

52:11

forty countries around the world the problem is

52:13

it's a little bit different in each country

52:15

so like the big example

52:18

is france where it is that's true that

52:20

these specific frequencies have been in use

52:22

like the specific frequencies

52:24

that are most

52:27

are the available and amid

52:29

band change a little bit and also the configuration

52:32

of like specifically how high

52:34

the power is for

52:37

the the cell tower what

52:39

it's at how strict they are about how

52:42

their oriented and oriented and how strict

52:44

they are about how close are allowed to

52:46

have a cell tower two the

52:49

airport they're just like

52:51

different roles for the see every country and this is why

52:54

every country we have

52:56

the airline regulator and regulator telecom regulator

52:58

get in a room and like hopefully

53:01

has sit out at nasa's

53:03

that's the process that happened

53:05

in every other country and it was just ah

53:08

, was to cringe to to

53:10

make it worse i

53:13

to say one of the strangest he

53:15

says a this whole story

53:17

is the f a a sus regulate

53:20

the airlines the as you see

53:22

a swiss to regulate the telecoms

53:25

in on this so like it's

53:27

more like there

53:28

the roosters for the industries have the

53:30

right like yeah fighting on behalf of

53:32

their and is is a very strange yeah

53:35

i do like part of me

53:38

i do think that this was like a bipartisan failure

53:40

because like the dude

53:42

it's been a year on each side like

53:45

if know their of trump and by and prompted

53:47

by yeah exact so it's tempting to be

53:49

like the like trump survey

53:52

was a mess and then they they couldn't paid

53:54

enough time but like actually they did have time

53:56

so harold feld who we love front of the verge

53:59

the tried this is like a game of chicken

54:02

that the essay yea it's so

54:05

basically because the f a as the airline regulators

54:07

they have the power to go to all

54:09

of the airlines and say

54:12

give us this detailed information about the equipment

54:15

you're using on your plane and work in a to

54:17

these tests and figure out what's

54:19

safe and what's not and the stuff it's not safe

54:21

we're gonna have the replace your

54:23

amateur and it's you know

54:26

the rise and will write you a check for a

54:28

new altimeter because they do not care they

54:30

just want to be able to use the dispatcher at

54:33

they paid month sixty

54:35

billion dollars for they just want people

54:37

to get sick assess twenty

54:39

grand for a new altimeter is not going to break

54:42

the bank for horizons but so

54:44

i mean there's like funds in their ways that they do

54:46

this it's not just

54:48

for extra check yahoo

54:50

, i feel even like altars we're good

54:53

yes we we know what they're for buys

54:55

a lot silly stuff stuff

54:57

is this is like one of the more we're going to help

55:00

do our part to help secure air travel

55:02

like yes silly it seems

55:04

like the didn't do that because this is the game

55:06

of chicken metaphor harald held houses that they

55:09

we're sort of figuring well

55:11

sort of to extract more concessions

55:13

from the carriers an they

55:15

did extract some concessions like they kept

55:18

we we even now we're seeing okay they're going

55:20

to give a little bit more of a radius around

55:22

the airports there's an extra twenty

55:25

megahertz i want say a around

55:28

of the spectrum that we're not the

55:31

i think it's just hurts but anyway to a

55:33

big chunk of the spectrum that

55:35

car have doubts just so we would have more

55:37

of a buffer between the spectrum

55:39

the five jesus and the spectrum ceo results

55:42

emitters use but be

55:44

kind of never got to the point where

55:46

they were like okay we bargained enough

55:49

hi to all buckle down and do

55:51

our job for making this work and

55:53

really that was the essays job

55:55

to like make sure

55:57

that the planes had the right equipment for

56:00

this thing that we basically new was

56:02

gonna happen and yeah

56:04

i mean that didn't happen i

56:06

will say it the we rarely

56:08

get same and sweat on be is express emotions

56:10

the rate is a little was frustrated which

56:13

i just

56:14

video eighties think for advertising

56:16

was frustrated it seems the wrong

56:18

out i will say that hilariously rising

56:20

hilariously must warn say here they here they

56:22

on much more of this network will

56:24

this be happy they're getting at speeds a

56:27

cnc and classic eighteen see fashion it's

56:29

like street corners and seven cities so

56:33

much , way to go but

56:35

it is are now there's still a fight over

56:37

some planes the last

56:40

two as such as was sixty four percent those

56:42

i did flights were now they have

56:44

affected plane types were approved

56:46

that a lot wilbur exactly keep

56:49

getting more a it is sort

56:51

of like those are the ones

56:53

that were a one hundred percent sure fine and

56:55

then there are others where we don't know and

56:57

that's like an alarming thing if you're on the

56:59

plane but also

57:02

this is like a process that started

57:04

a month ago so it's yeah it's like kind

57:07

of even remarkable that they

57:09

the on that much i was it a tuesday

57:11

wednesday we're just like utterly do at boeing

57:14

is issuing statements

57:15

emirates and a in a airlines japan airlines

57:18

air india the cancelling flights regardless

57:20

of the times a year on both sides

57:22

i would you say one of the main promises

57:25

the entire biden administration is like

57:27

were , government bureaucrats

57:30

who execute the functions of government well

57:32

as much as it did not in this

57:34

case so hopefully

57:37

gets resolved but see ben is roy out the

57:39

i do you think there's any more

57:41

more of the story to come soon

57:44

everyone is matt

57:45

rarely does a team t come out and say i'm frustrated

57:48

like that's just a weird one maybe t mobile

57:50

was pulling the strings it's like a godfather

57:52

type thing you have to imagine the the

57:54

t mobile people like we told so

57:57

yeah t mobile loves it cause cause cause

57:59

before this it seemed like they had gotten

58:01

kind of crappy spectrum because

58:04

he

58:04

they couldn't like put down the big

58:06

bucks advertising and eighteen seekers

58:09

and now it's like

58:11

one actually t mobile is

58:13

the only one with the the actual

58:15

workable mid ben spectrum that isn't

58:17

being blocked by federal airlines

58:20

it's pretty good

58:21

i'm in a that's what i always said but we'll

58:23

see what happens next that's that story the

58:26

other soil which is bigger has a much

58:28

longer

58:29

johnny i think is

58:31

we've been covering the and i trust bills that of

58:33

and whining their way through hearings

58:36

they were in the house the ,

58:38

one hit the senate market

58:40

today is a lot of arguments like ted cruz

58:43

name checked a phone call with with tim cook

58:45

which is pretty good what's gonna yes

58:48

so ah this so ah american

58:50

innovation and choice online

58:52

act

58:54

there's also the open up markets app

58:56

this fact it's like a little more

58:58

about epic verse apple type stuff

59:00

like app store rules by

59:02

arm the one that advanced

59:05

today the general

59:07

principle that they always come back

59:09

to his this sort of thing that we've heard from

59:11

liz warren a bunch that is basically

59:13

if you run a platform there

59:16

needs to be strict rules about what you

59:18

can do on that platform and so this

59:20

so this classic thing of like apple runs

59:23

the app store but apple also has apps

59:25

in the app store amazon

59:28

runs a big store but it also has products

59:30

in the store and so the basic

59:33

idea that they have in the messaging

59:35

of it and seemingly inch in rolling

59:37

it is we're gonna prevent

59:41

these companies from

59:43

sort of boosting

59:45

their own products

59:47

on their own platforms you can run

59:50

the platform but you're not allowed to promote

59:52

your own stuff on it

59:54

over everyone else so that seems

59:56

a good idea the bills i was a very long it

59:59

made it out of the committee today

1:00:02

yeah he hooks people voted against it sucks

1:00:04

team centers on his forehead it's

1:00:06

not like over the

1:00:09

bill seems to have some in build

1:00:11

weirdness especially around the

1:00:14

content moderation which is

1:00:16

while ted cruz's so excited about yeah

1:00:19

so i mean one of the things

1:00:22

is it's not just

1:00:25

that you were hands

1:00:28

promote your own stuff there

1:00:30

are also rules about discriminating

1:00:33

between sort of similar

1:00:36

equivalent services on

1:00:38

the platform rights which is on

1:00:40

some level you're like yeah okay we don't want

1:00:43

facebook just deciding that like

1:00:46

it likes this publisher

1:00:48

and not this other publisher and so we're only gonna

1:00:51

show things from this rights but

1:00:53

it's a little bit hard to know who are

1:00:55

equivalent publishers and

1:00:57

then also we've had like

1:01:00

over past five years this

1:01:02

moved forward the towards the platforming right

1:01:04

so the question one of the hypotheticals

1:01:06

was brought up is you know amazon

1:01:08

doesn't want host parlor on

1:01:11

amazon web services any more is

1:01:13

it going to be seen as discriminatory

1:01:16

and so of objective we amazon boston

1:01:19

because of these are sort of drop them as a

1:01:21

customer because of his veiled threats

1:01:23

is that going to be seen as discriminatory

1:01:26

and then they're going to get sued by some

1:01:28

by by some state attorney general who

1:01:31

who wants to make point about anti conservative

1:01:33

bias by

1:01:34

that to me is like so far afield

1:01:36

from amazon runs a store

1:01:39

and it will see the popular products in the store

1:01:42

won't it

1:01:43

and rank the amazon basics version above

1:01:45

the popular place that's thought that

1:01:47

was the heart of this looks like where this all began or

1:01:51

apple sees a popular product in

1:01:53

the store fans

1:01:55

make sure that the apple app comes

1:01:57

up over like yeah

1:02:00

the next to that is okay

1:02:02

you made a business deal with amazon the

1:02:05

advertiser product could stop

1:02:07

right right that's pretty wonky

1:02:10

and difficult that getting

1:02:12

from there to

1:02:13

i don't want to host a racist platform seems

1:02:15

like wildly different things right

1:02:17

i think that's true i also would say

1:02:20

like

1:02:21

well okay i'm in a weird

1:02:23

place with this but i do think one of

1:02:25

the common things that people have

1:02:27

said about t platforming when they do

1:02:29

this sort of thing is that there's

1:02:32

actually no the

1:02:34

rulebook for it

1:02:36

is like the question of when

1:02:38

something is to far out of bounds

1:02:41

to be like to appear in google

1:02:43

search results

1:02:44

there's actually something that seems like we

1:02:47

should have some sort of legal

1:02:50

or political rule about it and

1:02:52

it shouldn't just be like whatever

1:02:54

google decides or whatever like google

1:02:56

employees can pressure the broader

1:02:58

company to like this is probably

1:03:00

something we should decide as a society in

1:03:02

some sort of political government way and

1:03:05

i kind of think that's

1:03:07

what this it like i would

1:03:09

say in specifically the amazon web services parlor

1:03:12

thing like they we're violent threats

1:03:14

amazon had a legal obligation and it can say

1:03:16

no we're not discriminating between

1:03:19

like parlor and snap

1:03:22

chat it's that snap chat when

1:03:24

we send them these violent threats they take them down

1:03:26

and parlor doesn't take them down and were worried

1:03:28

about the legal risk from that and so we're dropping them

1:03:30

but like that's the reason i

1:03:33

also worry that like it's

1:03:35

it is warping the conversation to say

1:03:38

well we have all of these sort

1:03:40

of bizarre

1:03:42

bad faith conservative bias lawsuits

1:03:45

and we know that there are going to be more of them in

1:03:47

the future and so we need to pass

1:03:49

regulations with an eye

1:03:52

towards what is the worst

1:03:54

possible like joss

1:03:56

hall he i want to be a senator

1:03:59

a lawsuit

1:04:00

could possibly be used for this like

1:04:02

beat is sort of a weird

1:04:05

the acid test for the way it over there specifically

1:04:07

is sauce hi was eternity generals

1:04:09

missouri yes yeah and he see if

1:04:11

he was smiling lawsuits against tech companies like

1:04:14

he built his brand get which like

1:04:17

god bless him i think specifically

1:04:19

with to thirty like section two thirty we

1:04:22

have had have horn of lawsuits

1:04:24

that are just like the goal

1:04:27

helped

1:04:28

promote this protest and for years they

1:04:30

have a mother earth to thirty us it's they all fail

1:04:32

right they all said the same exact brick wall

1:04:35

and nothing stops them from happening and

1:04:37

imo had said cruz the

1:04:39

his various amendments says any trust spell

1:04:42

there's a quote

1:04:44

the right near be any wanted to add

1:04:46

a language that would allow users to sue platforms

1:04:48

as a platform is quite harm to them the

1:04:51

ted cruz quote is the abuses the abuses tech

1:04:53

are such that i am happy to unleash

1:04:55

the trial lawyers gap that

1:04:57

israel's i get open threat like

1:04:59

the what i want are all the seems like it's

1:05:01

disaster or before you will and and

1:05:04

friend of the show barons okay with

1:05:06

also like love that quote

1:05:08

where he was like i'm so angry about big

1:05:10

tax that i'm willing to bracket like

1:05:12

abandoned every principle as conservative as ssssss

1:05:16

i don't know i just like idol i

1:05:18

do think we need some put a i

1:05:21

mean this is like what facebook keep saying and

1:05:23

as is like we need some platform regulation

1:05:25

like we do the idea

1:05:27

that every possible proposal is

1:05:29

gonna be held hostage to like these

1:05:32

horrific bad faith lawsuits

1:05:34

and what we need to be thinking about is how we minimize

1:05:37

the damage from them i don't know that

1:05:39

it's wrong it's just like

1:05:41

that's not a good system which i

1:05:44

don't know i will say so

1:05:46

the so the companies honestly hate the center

1:05:48

for spilled the heat it

1:05:50

the amount of furious lobbying that we seen

1:05:52

this week is out of control tim cook

1:05:54

and sooner pretrial both and calling senators

1:05:57

directly only ted cruz brave

1:05:59

enough to admit response

1:06:00

and tim cook but political

1:06:02

reported like a and he tim

1:06:04

cook did not convince ted cruise like takes cruise like

1:06:06

screw like go ahead a

1:06:09

i really do think he just wanted the name check oh yeah

1:06:11

google put out a blog post

1:06:14

which has is like great line in a wishes

1:06:16

we need to protect competition not competitors

1:06:19

yeah very funny because you need competitors

1:06:22

to have competition yes so google's

1:06:25

example which is one of the more

1:06:27

compelling ones to me and it's interesting

1:06:29

to think about is they say this

1:06:31

will prevent us from giving

1:06:34

this useful information in google maps which

1:06:36

is like one of those google products

1:06:38

we useful love we wanted to stay good and

1:06:41

people kept going back and forth about

1:06:43

this there's fact sheet that was like it it

1:06:45

won't that's not what says and interesting

1:06:47

so mean to way that it would work is google maps

1:06:50

is this platform that's run by google they're

1:06:52

are sort of they're little

1:06:54

entries in it right and some of those

1:06:56

are sort of populated

1:06:59

by google information

1:07:01

and also some of them are ad served

1:07:03

by google like right like you can pay

1:07:05

google to have and ad that shows

1:07:07

like here is the verge

1:07:10

says or vodka experience

1:07:13

like come on down and is do

1:07:15

it the

1:07:17

question of like which of those

1:07:19

of the things that are on google maps

1:07:21

how do write a bill which is mostly

1:07:24

about like google search and amazon

1:07:26

and facebook and things that are more

1:07:29

conventionally platforms where it's like a feed

1:07:31

and we have objects and the feed and

1:07:33

we know where each have them comes from whereas

1:07:36

google maps it's like okay here's this restaurant

1:07:39

century

1:07:40

is a a google monopoly because there's nothing

1:07:42

that's like populated from yell

1:07:44

for is it a google entry because

1:07:46

think yelp a kind say yes right

1:07:48

like for yelp

1:07:51

a and by yelp and sonos and others

1:07:54

met at the white house to talk about these competition

1:07:56

concerns this we to like just a lot

1:07:58

of noise but this but do the answer

1:08:00

for yelp is google

1:08:02

has illegally scraped our shit for years

1:08:05

and they steal our data and populate google

1:08:07

search they illegally what

1:08:09

people want when they search for us our views as yelp

1:08:12

and when they get instead is would ever do the ones and

1:08:14

to even show up we of to pay google

1:08:17

for ads to show for the top of search sonos

1:08:19

should make the same argument right they would say like

1:08:22

if you search smart speaker

1:08:24

on google you get their stuff and ours

1:08:27

you search sonos to become

1:08:29

the first search result we have to pay for the word

1:08:31

sonos on google otherwise you get

1:08:33

results for google's products

1:08:35

yeah i don't know make same argument maps

1:08:38

right like i get what you're saying but

1:08:40

at the same time yup would happily tell you they

1:08:42

should have equal access to

1:08:45

the search results in google maps

1:08:47

yeah well into this was actually one of the more

1:08:49

interesting things about the

1:08:51

lights conversation around

1:08:53

it so there was this letter

1:08:56

in support of the bill which

1:08:59

in part it was like the usual suspects

1:09:01

of like people who don't

1:09:02

like google sort have yelp is on their duck

1:09:04

duck go which is like the anti google search

1:09:06

engine genius which has also been

1:09:09

have have google it basically

1:09:11

only exists to to sign these

1:09:13

letters it's not really like a functioning

1:09:15

website anymore but um then

1:09:18

you have y combinator

1:09:20

which is like probably the preeminent

1:09:23

accelerator certainly like story that they have

1:09:25

all these suits it's

1:09:26

you know run by andreessen horowitz but like this

1:09:28

major start of engine that

1:09:31

i i mean on some level

1:09:34

you would think that they would be worried or i

1:09:36

was surprised to see their name on it and i do

1:09:38

think it shows how much like be

1:09:40

assumption is any company

1:09:42

starting out today is going be

1:09:44

running uphill against this because

1:09:47

eventually google or amazon or

1:09:49

facebook will see that

1:09:51

you have a good idea and there's this marketplace

1:09:53

and they want to have their own product in this marketplace

1:09:55

and they'll just destroy you will be impossible to compete

1:09:58

and i mean so

1:10:00

they like the bill i don't know

1:10:02

what that exactly means i

1:10:04

don't think that means there's nothing

1:10:06

they would change about it but it do think we've seen

1:10:09

the tech industry there

1:10:11

is a real divide on this yeah

1:10:14

and i do think that of ideas

1:10:16

probably expressed a small companies russia's big

1:10:18

companies and y combinator as

1:10:20

a proxy for every small something doesn't exist

1:10:23

yeah yeah i think that's right it's just

1:10:25

be cds i will say

1:10:28

even given the people who are raising

1:10:30

like a lot of smart people are raising concerns about

1:10:32

these provisions mostly in the context

1:10:34

of the platform and and it's the kind

1:10:36

of thing where it's

1:10:39

not obvious to me how you

1:10:41

like amend your way out of this biggest

1:10:44

fundamentally

1:10:45

most t platforming is some form

1:10:48

of discrimination i mean discrimination

1:10:50

sounds bad but there are like

1:10:52

we don't like nazis were going to discriminate

1:10:54

against nazis on our platform and not have them

1:10:56

and this is

1:10:59

there's this question of how do you draw the

1:11:01

line and fundamentally this

1:11:03

is making rules about that

1:11:05

but i don't see how are you men

1:11:08

your way to a version that doesn't create those

1:11:10

concerts maybe they're going to do it and and all

1:11:13

have i got my face but i don't see it the

1:11:15

other bill as the open up markets app

1:11:18

which is

1:11:20

many readings will our side loading on the i phone

1:11:22

apple odyssey aids this it's

1:11:24

like you know it's sort of debatable so

1:11:26

apple's as semen from a senior director of

1:11:28

gov sarah temporarily he ran

1:11:30

a letters of us senators it is

1:11:32

to all in whole hog

1:11:35

is read it after tumultuous year that

1:11:37

witnessed multiple controversies regarding

1:11:39

social media whistle blower

1:11:41

allegations of long ignored risk to

1:11:43

children and ransomware attacks

1:11:45

that hobbled critical infrastructure it

1:11:47

would be ironic if congress responds making it harder

1:11:50

to protect the privacy and security of

1:11:52

americans personal devices that

1:11:54

, what this bill would do devices

1:11:57

making few side loading happen children will be at

1:11:59

risk like that apple yeah

1:12:02

i would say that apple has like

1:12:04

i get that's it argument that's the

1:12:07

apple , some private argument i would say apple

1:12:09

has total control the phone yeah

1:12:11

right now and there were multiple controversies

1:12:14

regarding social media whistle relegation

1:12:17

children an ran some were tax like it's

1:12:20

it doesn't happen regardless of the control yeah

1:12:23

and also that's it

1:12:25

the other one were like it's have another frustrating

1:12:27

dynamic with this stuff is that we're

1:12:29

just arguing from the

1:12:31

most extreme possible consequences

1:12:34

like it's very easy to imagine

1:12:37

things that

1:12:39

would peel away apple's control of

1:12:41

the app store and open the app markets

1:12:43

without completely on

1:12:47

chaining the i o s connection

1:12:49

with the i phone like i

1:12:51

just don't

1:12:53

really like like what is the

1:12:55

relation between the non ios apps

1:12:57

and the apple app store it's it's just

1:13:00

i don't really buy it i think

1:13:02

that it's not i think the just exaggerating

1:13:05

a problem and i think also we saw the same

1:13:07

thing you know way back

1:13:09

when back when was a question of of

1:13:11

jailbreaking specific the like locking

1:13:13

sim cards to to

1:13:15

oh networks i don't know who

1:13:17

say so the bill is out of committee a

1:13:20

number of people say what sixty six out of committee

1:13:22

a number the sixteen said i'm voting for to go out of

1:13:24

committee but i'm not going to vote for the

1:13:26

bill i'm this form so is yet to change yet

1:13:29

this platforming provision is

1:13:31

going to get more attention it seems to be

1:13:33

where the the most certainly is

1:13:36

apple and you're not gonna stop they are

1:13:39

motivated to stop this things

1:13:41

as they were to hear loud noise any want to see some advertising

1:13:44

the industry groups oh yeah near

1:13:46

their lobbying groups are already advertising and

1:13:48

force for him to see it's i'm sure just based

1:13:50

on this conversation russell i mostly get some emails

1:13:53

and , as a lobbyist what's

1:13:56

the timeline or is this thing like the

1:13:59

train going

1:14:00

the concerts what you think i

1:14:02

don't know i mean i would not a the

1:14:04

senate you never bet on anything moving fast

1:14:07

and also the biden priority now is

1:14:09

is

1:14:10

whatever is going on with your mansion so

1:14:12

i don't think they're in any hurry

1:14:14

on this i do think we're going to they're going to try

1:14:16

to get it done like this congress

1:14:18

obviously but it could be

1:14:20

any time in the next year as you get closer the election

1:14:22

the gets a little dicey so like probably the

1:14:24

next six months but i'm not i'm

1:14:26

think there will be snow on the ground when we see movement

1:14:29

on this what's interesting is this one this bipartisan

1:14:31

when is it any good yeah sixty senators

1:14:33

plus the vice president and last

1:14:36

they do have they do have ted cruz things

1:14:39

them to call them what's the josh holly

1:14:41

voted for this bill lot of do this like yeah

1:14:43

miller is more bipartisan this or on this

1:14:45

than you would expect i think the overall

1:14:48

brand of big tax there's

1:14:50

not a political winner right now i think every

1:14:52

politician wants to go home and say they

1:14:55

stood up

1:14:56

i think one of the interesting things about

1:14:58

this is the people who really

1:15:00

care about tech anti trust are the people

1:15:02

on the judiciary committee because

1:15:04

they're like in there all day they want their bills

1:15:07

to get house we don't really

1:15:09

know how like the average republican

1:15:12

like they like the complain about big tech along

1:15:15

what we don't actually know how much they're

1:15:17

gonna be committed to like voting for

1:15:19

a bill that a lot of people are lobbying

1:15:21

really hard against and the same thing

1:15:23

suis democrats i mean there are a lot of very

1:15:25

pro industry democrats like

1:15:27

grow corn on and so people in that caucus

1:15:30

i mean nancy pelosi your dianne feinstein

1:15:33

was like all these countries are might or might

1:15:35

stay or i'm not voting for that that's right

1:15:37

so let's it's weird because we're

1:15:40

so used to everything passing on a passing

1:15:42

or failing on a party lines but this

1:15:44

or it's decline a scramble for thing i genuinely

1:15:47

curious to see what this looks like in

1:15:49

a full floor vote because i think

1:15:51

they're going to be some surprises well

1:15:53

we'll see what happens my mckenna is on

1:15:55

the case service recovery miss

1:15:57

eyes he'd fallen earth it's there's

1:16:00

action here

1:16:01

you know auctioneer i do think every part

1:16:04

of some is motivated to go home and taller

1:16:06

constituency did something that they talk things

1:16:08

over it doesn't matter what you said so it

1:16:10

added some are

1:16:13

it that's it we've gone over is always

1:16:15

russell thank you so much

1:16:17

for being on the perched can my

1:16:19

pleasure think deer us thanks helps

1:16:21

i miss him a but my thanks astra

1:16:24

show great for her first time on the show

1:16:26

a and alex heath you can tweet at us i'm

1:16:29

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