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a limited time on Minecraft movie

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only in theaters. United States

0:20

of Denial. The latest bombshell

0:23

poll finds that the vast

0:25

majority of young Americans have

0:27

lost hope in the U.S.

0:29

government on both sides of

0:31

the aisle. And is the

0:33

current administration giving them even

0:36

more reasons to lose faith?

0:38

Then. Celebrity Chef and Presidential

0:40

Medal of Freedom recipient Jose

0:42

Andres shares how humanitarian aid

0:44

cuts have impacted his global

0:47

mission to Feed the Hungry

0:49

and his latest recipe of

0:51

hope for the world. Plus,

0:53

award-winning columnist and podcaster Ezra

0:56

Klein talks about his roadmap

0:58

for Democrats to succeed, that

1:00

sparking a heated debate over

1:02

the direction of the party.

1:05

Here come

1:07

hot topics.

1:09

with Whoopi.

1:12

Sarah Haynes.

1:14

Joy Behar.

1:16

Anna Navarro.

1:18

Sunny Austin.

1:21

And Alyssa

1:23

Sarah Griffin.

1:25

Now, let's

1:28

get things

1:30

started. And

2:00

welcome to the view a beautiful audience

2:03

as usual So a Fox news poll

2:05

just revealed that president Trump's approval rating

2:07

is 11 points underwater A sign that

2:09

his support is sinking just days ahead

2:12

of the 100-day mark. His approval rating

2:14

is just 44% down five points from

2:16

just a month ago. And according to

2:19

a new poll from the Harvard Kennedy

2:21

School, young people's trust in all government

2:23

institutions is declining. With Gen Z, who

2:26

are skeptical that the government will act

2:28

in their best interests. They don't believe

2:30

it. Why do you think they lost

2:32

so much trust? But that survey had

2:35

a lot of data to unpack, which

2:37

found that 15% of young Americans believe

2:39

the countries had it in the wrong

2:42

direction. 29% don't support Republicans, and only

2:44

23% support Democrats. So this is saying

2:46

that this younger generation under me is

2:48

just widely distrustful of institutions. And I

2:51

understand why they are. So think of

2:53

this. They came up in the COVID

2:55

pandemic era of lockdowns. They came up

2:58

when they were being told information that

3:00

said one thing. They were isolated, separated

3:02

from their peers. They also grew up

3:05

in the age of they always had

3:07

cell phones, and they always had social

3:09

media. For all the traumas millennials went

3:11

through, I am so grateful I didn't

3:14

have to grow up with an algorithm

3:16

that's meant to make me radicalized and

3:18

hate people around me or to feel

3:21

isolated and mad about myself. It's a

3:23

very hard time to be a young

3:25

person in this country. And I think

3:28

they also see they've only lived in

3:30

the politics of division. Most of them

3:32

were kids when Obama was president. They

3:34

don't even remember. them to trust our

3:37

institutions or to trust our elective. The

3:39

economy alone, so building off what you're

3:41

saying, you look at what they're up

3:44

against financially. The buying power of this

3:46

generation is the lowest it's been for

3:48

any of our generations. What they're able

3:50

to buy. The cost of college, when

3:53

you talk about loan forgiveness? It's jumped

3:55

153% in the last 40 years. College

3:57

is unattainable. And I don't know if

4:00

just attacking the loan part is the

4:02

problem here. Why are colleges that expensive?

4:04

Like all the price, the housing prices,

4:07

what they make, their wage has not

4:09

kept up with the inflation and the

4:11

cost of everything. They are not going

4:13

to be better off. Parents raise kids

4:16

to say, I hope I can give

4:18

my kid a better life. This generation

4:20

is not getting a better life. They

4:23

are climbing a mountain right now. And

4:25

we're talking about trust and government institutions,

4:27

right? So we're talking about judicial, Congress,

4:30

and the presidency. They are living right

4:32

now through a time where there's no

4:34

checks and balances, where the separation of

4:36

power seems to mean nothing. This is

4:39

also the generation in addition to COVID

4:41

that has lived through now true Trump

4:43

terms. They saw January 6th when they

4:46

were teenagers. They saw the president be

4:48

impeached twice. They saw the former president

4:50

be indicted and convicted and reelected. I

4:52

mean, we're going through two wars that

4:55

even though American soldiers are not involved,

4:57

America is involved in Ukraine and the

4:59

Middle East. So the wonder I have

5:02

is how 23% still trust this president

5:04

and you know what else? This president

5:06

and this administration is attacking universities. They're

5:09

attacking freedom of speech. They're attacking freedom

5:11

of assembly. They are dragging international students

5:13

out. So they're seeing their colleagues, their

5:15

classmates, be rounded up and told not

5:18

to come back to this country. There's

5:20

visas that are being denied. There's grants

5:22

to those universities that are being canceled.

5:25

There are researchers in places like Harvard

5:27

and universities that are being detained by

5:29

ICE and deported out of this country.

5:32

So again, I ask, how do 20-some

5:34

percent still have trust? What do you

5:36

think about that? Who is this 20-3?

5:38

I'm raising two genziers, right? My daughter's

5:41

18. She's at Cornell. My son is

5:43

22. He's graduating from

5:45

Harvard in May.

5:48

So I won't be

5:50

paying much money

5:52

that I've been paying

5:54

because I agree

5:57

with you, Sarah. The

5:59

cost of college

6:01

education is so much

6:04

higher than it

6:06

needs to be. I

6:08

think we should

6:11

have free higher education

6:13

in this country,

6:15

actually. And

6:18

I see it for myself. I

6:20

do see that they question everything.

6:22

And I think a significant part

6:24

of the reason that they question

6:26

everything is because everyone is an

6:28

expert on TikTok. They think that

6:31

their Google JD is the equivalent

6:33

of my 30 plus years of

6:35

being a barred attorney. And so

6:37

I think part of it is

6:39

that. I think part of it

6:41

is fake news and the misinformation

6:43

that is prolific everywhere. But the

6:45

one silver lining that I saw

6:47

in my research is that NBC

6:49

is reporting that polling averages and

6:51

research from the Washington Post and

6:53

the New York Times say that

6:55

since the dawn of modern day

6:57

American polling research, no president has

6:59

polled worse than President Trump at

7:01

this point in his term. Right,

7:03

that's true. In modern history. So

7:05

that tells me that what they

7:07

are seeing, they are reacting to,

7:09

they don't like what they are

7:11

seeing. And I think this generation,

7:13

Generation Z, they're voting age, many

7:15

of them. I think they're gonna

7:18

help save our country. That's so

7:20

sound. Kudos to Harvard for fighting

7:22

back. Yes. All right, the

7:24

hot topics continue on the

7:26

weekend view streaming on ABC News

7:28

Live Saturday and Sundays at

7:31

7 .30 and 9 .30 a .m.

7:33

And there's a third streaming time

7:35

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7:37

.m. Eastern. Thanks to our sponsor

7:39

Rock Skincare. We'll be right

7:41

back. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right.

7:43

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shopify.com/view. Whatever his name is, he

10:09

revealed that tough guys have feelings

10:11

too. Watch. Their hair shaming of

10:13

you has made it what? Better,

10:15

I think. You want and made

10:17

some plays? hair is growing in

10:19

full you chance and you make

10:21

me feel small and you embarrass

10:24

me like y'all don't know what

10:26

that's like that is straight up

10:28

bullying it is and that's right

10:30

that's just not cool I don't

10:32

like it it's not cool hair

10:34

look good though if it means

10:37

anything yes so so thank you

10:39

for bullying me into getting surgical

10:41

hair replacement like that's how far

10:43

that's how far y' y'all push

10:45

me Oh, poor thing. Does this

10:47

show that guys are as insecure

10:50

as women in some respects? Absolutely.

10:52

You think everyone is insecure? I

10:54

think men, the balding issue is

10:56

an issue. It's like 30 to

10:58

50% of men by the age

11:00

of 50, by the age of

11:03

50 have that problem, and I

11:05

think they're concerned about their bellies,

11:07

too. I think it's such a...

11:09

I don't want to generalize. I

11:11

don't agree with that. Those love

11:13

handles can be on the floor.

11:16

I'm gorgeous and I'm not fat.

11:18

Come on. It's a myth that

11:20

men don't get insecure about their

11:22

loves. And women, at least we,

11:24

for all of the societal pressure

11:26

that's put on us and the

11:29

unrealistic beauty standards, we at least

11:31

can do things like put on

11:33

makeup. Has anybody met Donald Trump?

11:35

There's an option. They don't put

11:37

on makeup. In a way that

11:39

gives them a pass because when

11:41

they get bald or they get

11:44

gray or they get... whatever. They

11:46

say they're distinguished looking. If a

11:48

woman does that, they say she

11:50

looks old. That's true. So they

11:52

have an advantage in a way

11:54

for not having anything to do.

11:57

But they delete that man into

11:59

getting a surgical procedure. Oh, please.

12:01

He's Johnson. Nobody bullied him. He's

12:03

being, I think, tongue and cheek.

12:05

I don't know. I kind of

12:07

appreciated that was a group of

12:10

men with a man calling out

12:12

what bullying is because oftentimes you

12:14

see that group mentality and... I

12:16

don't think he should have gone

12:18

through, like you have to recognize

12:20

you're being bullied and it doesn't

12:23

mean you then go through with

12:25

what you're saying, but I thought

12:27

it was good that he called

12:29

it out because it's usually directed

12:31

at other people or punching down

12:33

at other people and I think

12:36

that was, it's also, that other

12:38

people are punching down at other

12:40

people and other people and I

12:42

think that was, it is bullying.

12:44

It is also someone who's very

12:46

admired by men. I have somebody

12:48

in my family who did. Your

12:51

husband? No. And don't give him

12:53

any ideas. But he... You've got

12:55

to, you know, they shave your

12:57

hair, right? And, yeah, because- It's

12:59

a big process. And then they've,

13:01

and then, that's why he had

13:04

to explain it, because there's a

13:06

guy who's got a headful hair

13:08

and all of a sudden he

13:10

was wearing, Joe Biden had hair.

13:12

But he was wearing a cap

13:14

because he was, you know, he's,

13:17

his hair is regrowing. Right. Yeah,

13:19

Joe Biden's lasted well for a

13:21

few decades. They've gotten a lot

13:23

better. I don't understand why they

13:25

have to shave the hair to

13:27

make the hair grow. Because, first

13:30

of all, they've got to take

13:32

the hair from down from here.

13:34

Oh, are there places? Yes, they

13:36

take, they take hair from where

13:38

there is hair and they put

13:40

it where there is no hair.

13:43

What did they have any options?

13:45

Like you, what he had was

13:47

a bald spot. So they would

13:49

take hair from like where he

13:51

has thick hair and they would

13:53

put it thick hair and they

13:56

would put it in. Yeah, a

13:58

lot of people are flying to

14:00

Turkey. In Turkey? There is an

14:02

entire industry. That's the place to

14:04

go. There is a hair transplant

14:06

industry in Turkey. When I went

14:08

to Turkey, a bunch of people

14:11

with umbrellas, because they can't get

14:13

sun on it, and their heads

14:15

full of drilled holes. It's a

14:17

thing. I don't know. I don't

14:19

mind a ball guy, doesn't care.

14:21

Would you get a hair transplant

14:24

of you? Very confident about is

14:26

my hair. Everything else, you know.

14:28

But if you had a bald

14:30

spot, would it make you feel

14:32

insecure? Yes. Yeah, you absolutely would.

14:34

Yeah. Why? You have so many

14:37

role models. You have Ed Harris,

14:39

one of the cutest heads? Oh,

14:41

yeah. I have a very large

14:43

head. Yeah, not. Everyone does bald

14:45

as well. It would not work

14:47

for me. Oh my God. You're

14:50

so vain. You think the song

14:52

is about you. Get

14:59

this people now we're streaming every

15:01

weekend right to you with an

15:04

all new show and all new

15:06

view special for the weekends now

15:08

you can catch the view seven

15:11

days a week I wonder if

15:13

you can handle it it's the

15:15

weekend view the weekend view it's

15:18

the weekend view it's the weekend

15:20

view screaming on ABC news live

15:22

wherever you stream take a little

15:25

time to enjoy the weekend view

15:27

Now streaming Saturdays and Sundays on

15:29

ABC News Live wherever you stream.

15:32

Chef and humanitarian Jose Andres along

15:34

with his organization World Central Kitchen

15:36

is serving a higher purpose. providing

15:39

needed food relief and helping to

15:41

save lives around the world. And

15:43

he's also found time to write

15:46

a book called Change the recipe

15:48

because you can't build a better

15:50

world without breaking some eggs. That's

15:53

the title. Please welcome Jose Andres.

16:07

Welcome back. Welcome back, Jose,

16:09

to our show. It's always

16:11

a project. I have you.

16:13

We buy me again. Thank

16:15

you. Yes. So your nonprofit,

16:17

World Central Kitchen, is basically

16:19

an incredible thing that you're

16:21

doing. Last year alone, you

16:23

served more than a hundred

16:25

and nine million meals. Personally,

16:27

no. It's 20 countries. Pretty

16:29

good. You have worked in

16:32

such difficult conditions and seen

16:34

the worst of what humans

16:36

can do to each other,

16:38

haven't you? Yet you managed

16:40

to be hopeful, which I

16:42

appreciate. The times that we're

16:44

living in are so really

16:46

hurtful to so many people,

16:48

I think. So where does

16:50

this optimism come from? Well,

16:52

because optimism is the only

16:54

way forward. The optimism sometimes

16:56

comes because when I began

16:58

going to these situations, who

17:00

against tornadoes. than wars. I

17:02

realize that in the worst

17:04

moments of humanity, the best

17:06

of humanity shows up. Yes,

17:08

yes. There is no skin

17:10

color, religion, right and left,

17:12

Republicans or Democrats. There is

17:14

people helping people. And that's

17:16

what should be all the

17:18

time. Well, for all of

17:20

your extraordinary work, in January

17:22

of this year, excuse me,

17:24

President Biden awarded you the

17:26

Presidential Medal of Freedom. And,

17:28

um... I want to let

17:30

that read for a moment,

17:32

because shortly after that, during

17:34

Trump's first full day in

17:36

office, he tweeted that you

17:38

and three other presidential appointees

17:40

were fired. So, uh... What

17:42

did you make of that

17:45

personal call out? Didn't you

17:47

quit before he fired you?

17:49

I quit before, but they

17:51

quit. I don't respect for

17:53

the incoming. president. Obviously when

17:55

a new president is elected

17:57

he should be putting in

17:59

the different positions of government

18:01

the people he thinks are

18:03

the best people. So I

18:05

resigned way before I tweeted

18:07

him in a very nice

18:09

way say Mr. President sorry

18:11

but I already resigned and

18:13

I also sent him my

18:15

best wishes saying here I

18:17

am like every American that

18:19

we all always should be

18:21

working. in improving the lives

18:23

of every American. Yeah. Well,

18:25

say I want to talk

18:27

a little bit about immigration,

18:29

which I know is a

18:31

really important topic for you.

18:33

You are a proud immigrant.

18:35

It's a huge part of

18:37

who you are and your

18:39

identity. And we've seen Trump

18:41

put into action his promised

18:43

immigration crackdowns. That's really affecting

18:45

the food industry, isn't it?

18:47

And I think there's a

18:49

lot of people who approve

18:51

of what he's doing without

18:53

fully understanding how it's going

18:56

to affect them getting food

18:58

at their table and food

19:00

in the restaurants. Can you

19:02

tell us about how the

19:04

food industry, your industry, is

19:06

going to be affected by

19:08

these immigration crackdowns? Number one,

19:10

immigration is not a problem

19:12

for America to solve. It's

19:14

an opportunity for America to

19:16

cease. Actually,

19:18

we should be celebrating because unemployment has been very

19:20

low. This is good news. Restaurant industry has a

19:22

hard time firing workers, so we can keep opening

19:24

restaurants and moving the economies forward in urban America

19:26

and rural America. But it's more than restaurants. It

19:28

goes back to the farms. Farmers are having a

19:30

hard issue finding people. that can take care of

19:33

the farms. And immigrants, in a way, play a

19:35

super important role. It's okay, you want maybe immigrants

19:37

out? But if in the

19:39

process it's gonna be

19:41

making America putter, I don't

19:43

think it's smart. It's

19:45

beyond that. Who do you

19:47

think works the golf

19:49

courses, taking care of the

19:51

grass and the dunes?

19:53

Hold on a second. President

19:55

Trump himself, he owns

19:57

golf courses. President Trump himself

19:59

owns wineries. Who do

20:01

you think picks up the

20:03

grapes in the wineries

20:05

in America? Hold on a

20:07

second. Should we give

20:09

in those jobs to Americans?

20:11

Obviously, I'm an American.

20:13

I want Americans to succeed,

20:15

but also I'm a

20:18

pragmatic business person. Let's do

20:20

good policy that at

20:22

the end becomes smart, good

20:24

policy. Smart policy, yeah.

20:26

Well, let me ask you,

20:28

Jose, almost $500 million

20:30

worth of food is reportedly

20:32

at risk of spoilage

20:34

after US AID was cut

20:36

and more than $1

20:38

billion cut from programs that

20:40

helped food banks and

20:42

school meal programs and millions

20:44

of American families face

20:46

food insecurity over these proposed

20:48

tariffs that could cause

20:50

really a huge spike in

20:52

the price of groceries

20:54

for everyday Americans. What is

20:56

your reaction to these

20:58

actions from this administration? Does

21:00

the administration understand the

21:03

food insecurity that these policies

21:05

may lead to? It's

21:07

a lot of poverty in

21:09

rural America. We should

21:11

be making sure that these

21:13

programs, like the ones

21:15

you're describing, that actually makes

21:17

no American poor and

21:19

no American hungry. That's the

21:21

only way you can

21:23

make a better America tomorrow

21:25

by coming up with

21:27

policies that support, but by

21:29

the way, it's no

21:31

use for people now in

21:33

blue states. No, it's

21:35

red states and blue states.

21:37

It's Americans, forget politics.

21:39

So we need to come

21:41

up with policies supported

21:43

by both parties that actually

21:45

make sure we're not

21:48

kidding America will ever be

21:50

hungry again and we're

21:52

no family will ever be

21:54

poor again. That should

21:56

be the first policy. You're

21:58

not going to achieve

22:00

it, cutting down those programs.

22:02

You will only increase

22:04

hunger and... poverty in America. USID cats are

22:06

only creating famines in countries around America and around

22:08

the world. This is only going to

22:10

make the safety of America,

22:13

if anything, worse, not better. And

22:15

thank you for all your work

22:17

in Ukraine. You're everywhere, but let's

22:19

talk about the book. You were

22:21

born in Northern Spain, but at

22:23

a young age you moved to

22:26

Barcelona. You say you got your

22:28

love for food from your parents.

22:30

How did your heritage impact this

22:32

book and influence it? Which

22:34

one are you? Yeah, we are. The

22:36

nice looking one. Can you tell

22:38

everyone this story about your

22:41

mom in the green pepper?

22:43

She really wanted you to

22:45

try it. I love green

22:47

peppers. Now I eat green

22:49

peppers, like, oh my god,

22:51

green peppers. Make America green

22:54

pepper again. But my mom was

22:56

a nurse, very persistent. And

22:58

she will give me those

23:01

peppers, fry. I was seven

23:03

or eight. I didn't eat them.

23:05

Next day, she sent them

23:07

in school with me in a

23:09

tapawa. With orders to the teachers,

23:11

my son is gonna eat only

23:14

the peppers, cannot eat anything I

23:16

didn't eat. Okay, they sent me

23:18

the peppers back. That night again,

23:20

she put me the pepper. The same

23:23

pepper. The pepper was talking to me

23:25

at that point. Come on with me,

23:27

eat me, I'm not so bad. I

23:29

didn't have dinner. I didn't eat the

23:31

pepper. Next day, she sent me again

23:34

the pepper to the school. A very

23:36

persistent mother. That night, I arrived home.

23:38

I was, before I ate the pepper,

23:40

I say, sorry, pepper, I'm gonna eat

23:42

you now. And I ate the pepper,

23:45

now I love green, fried pepper.

23:47

Before we go, though, we want

23:49

to mention that you will

23:51

be featured on the upcoming

23:53

Netflix series, Chef's Table Legends.

23:55

And you are hosting a

23:57

new cooking competition series. I

24:00

like Martha Stewart called Yes Chef. She's

24:02

busy. She's opening a restaurant in Foxwoods

24:04

also. I don't know where she has

24:06

so much energy. She does, I know.

24:09

We'll shoot all day and then she'll

24:11

say, Jose, let's go off for dinner.

24:13

I'm like, Martha, I'm destroyed. I need

24:15

to go back. No, let's go dinner.

24:17

Jose, he has a new break. It's

24:20

called Change the recipe is out now

24:22

and you can buy the book by

24:24

scanning the QR code on your screen

24:26

and we'll be right. Thank you. Ryan

24:39

Reynolds here for Mint Mobile.

24:41

The message for everyone paying

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big wireless way too much.

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express.com/Business Goldcard, built for business,

25:34

by American Express. columnist

25:45

broadcaster and the co-author of the number

25:47

one New York Times bestseller abundance. Yeah,

25:50

right here. And he's here to talk

25:52

about the current state about democracy and

25:54

share his thoughts on how Democrats can

25:56

get their mojo. Please welcome Ezra Klein.

25:58

Thank you. I'm glad to be here.

26:00

Lovely to see you. So the book

26:02

has made a big splash. It's amazing.

26:04

People just love municipal zoning policy. States

26:06

path. Like it's a shameless pandering all

26:08

the way through. It's number one. So

26:10

I can't argue with that. Tell us

26:12

what the book is about exactly. So

26:14

the book is about at its core

26:16

is a very simple question. How do

26:18

we get more of the things we

26:20

need? And behind that is a critique.

26:22

I'm Californian. At the center point I

26:24

look around my own home state and

26:26

you look at the problems and it's

26:28

become very unaffordable. It's lost a lot

26:30

of people. And the problem is we

26:32

haven't built enough of what we need.

26:34

Haven't built enough homes, haven't built enough

26:36

infrastructure, haven't built enough clean energy. You

26:38

look nationally, government is delivering, even under

26:40

Democrats, the people who say they believe

26:42

in government, believe in a strong government,

26:44

it's delivering incredibly slowly. And so the

26:46

book is an investigation. into what went

26:48

wrong and then what would have to

26:50

go right for government be able to

26:52

create an abundant future. Is it about

26:54

money? Is it mostly about money? It's

26:56

about a lot of bureaucracy. It's about

26:58

all of it. Money is a problem,

27:00

bureaucracy is a problem, but there is

27:02

a lack of connection. between process and

27:04

outcome. You use this incredible example in

27:06

the book of high-speed rail in California.

27:08

I remember more than a decade ago

27:10

when it was announced and it should

27:12

have been have a huge impact on

27:15

climate. It'd be able to make people

27:17

live more affordably commute more places, but

27:19

actually because of some climate policies, it's

27:21

actually delayed its ability to be built.

27:23

So sometimes you kind of point to

27:25

these contradictions within what some of the

27:27

Democrats are leaning into, but I want

27:29

to ask you this because you use

27:31

this example of... Democrats should run on,

27:33

you know, move to California, we can

27:35

govern the whole country like it, but

27:37

Republicans have actually been able to say

27:39

it's so unaffordable, a lot of things

27:41

don't work there well. So what is

27:43

your message to Democrats on what they

27:45

can learn to make blue states not

27:47

be a place that people are fleeing

27:49

to red states like Florida and Texas?

27:51

So no one should be more relentless

27:53

about making government work than Democrats. We

27:55

should be by far the most infuriated

27:57

when it doesn't deliver and when it

27:59

doesn't... deliver fast. Now it's worth saying

28:01

California is not the only blue state

28:03

in the nation and there are particular

28:05

problems in places like California and New

28:07

York but you look at a place

28:09

like Colorado and it's governed fairly differently

28:11

and it's working pretty well. There's a

28:13

report I've been thinking about that shows

28:15

how much it costs to build publicly

28:17

subsidized housing, affordable housing in Colorado, in

28:19

Texas and in California and per square

28:21

foot. It's a lot more money to

28:23

do it for in California, even in

28:25

Texas. In Colorado, when the government does

28:27

it, it's a little bit cheaper than

28:29

market rate development. So there are places

28:31

we can look to learn things. France

28:33

and Spain, they do public transit really

28:35

really well. The way till they start

28:37

reporting all those undocumented immigrants working in

28:39

construction. Look, you have a Trump administration

28:42

that's really embraced scarcity right now. There's

28:44

a version of what they could have

28:46

been that could have come in, that

28:48

could have come in. tariffs, they've embraced

28:50

deportations, they've destroyed the stock market, they

28:52

do not want a future of more,

28:54

they want to contain future where everything

28:56

is ours. And that's created a big

28:58

opportunity for Democrats if they choose to

29:00

take it. Well Ezra I wanted to

29:02

ask you, you write about what you

29:04

call a... everything bagel liberalism and how

29:06

that's gotten in the way of progress.

29:08

Can you explain what you mean by

29:10

that? Yeah, so if you dig in

29:12

to what happens after the bill passes,

29:14

you look at what is happening in

29:16

the project, why didn't high-speed rail happen?

29:18

What happened with World Broadband? You begin

29:20

to see this layering on of dozens

29:22

and dozens of different goals into a

29:24

single project, right? You're trying to do

29:26

all kinds of environmental standards and wage

29:28

goals and things that are all or

29:30

many of them on their own good,

29:32

but these things are very hard to

29:34

do in the first place. it's hard

29:36

to build high-speed rail. It's hard to

29:38

get housing done in places where it's

29:40

difficult to build. And the projects often

29:42

collapse under their own weight. There aren't

29:44

many, there aren't many single changes you

29:46

could make that I think would do

29:48

all that much across domains. But one

29:50

cultural change you can make, but one

29:52

cultural change you can make in governance

29:54

is to say that projects should more

29:56

or less be doing one thing or

29:58

very few things. That their goal should

30:00

be their goal should be their goal.

30:02

did the situation. were to build public

30:04

housing, publicly subsidized housing in California. It's

30:07

more than four times as expensive per

30:09

square foot as building market housing in

30:11

Texas. You have a problem and you

30:13

need to work back through the process

30:15

you created when you spend public money

30:17

to figure out how you've added so

30:19

much cost in time to the spending

30:21

of public money. Because that's a betrayal

30:23

of taxpayer. Did you find out why?

30:25

Did you find out why? Yeah, I

30:27

mean, I tracked back a bunch of

30:29

different affordable housing projects. And I mean,

30:31

you know, different ones are different ones

30:33

are different. triggers a bunch of new

30:35

rules. It triggers different wage rules, it

30:37

triggers different environmental rules, it triggers different

30:39

building rules, and all of it adds

30:41

cost and time. There are preferences for

30:43

using small contractors, not big ones, and

30:45

different. Like I've done this on so

30:47

many projects now and they're all unhappy

30:49

in their own ways, but it is

30:51

a similar story across many of them

30:53

that they were not focused on the

30:55

thing they promised and oftentimes they didn't

30:57

get anything at all. Look, there's a

30:59

million ideas that have gone into what

31:01

we should be doing during California high-speed

31:03

rail. But in the end, we haven't

31:05

achieved any of them because you can't

31:07

write an high-speed rail. So like sometimes

31:09

you try to achieve so much if

31:11

you end up achieving nothing. It kind

31:13

of sounds an awful lot like what

31:15

Elon Musk had promised he'd target with

31:17

Doge But that's been largely unsuccessful at

31:19

finding huge ways. It's very unpopular, so

31:21

unpopular that he's even tanking his own

31:23

businesses as a result. Does that make

31:25

it harder to make the case that

31:27

government is the issue and bureaucracy and

31:29

deregulation? What are they doing wrong? I

31:32

don't think that, look, the fact that

31:34

you have a patient who could use

31:36

surgery doesn't mean you have a patient

31:38

who could use a stabbing. And Doj

31:40

is a stabbing. It's an effort to

31:42

destroy state capacity. Throughout this book, Derek

31:44

and I, what we're trying to do.

31:47

What we're trying to do is argue

31:49

for an expansion of what the state

31:52

is capable of doing and delivering. Sometimes

31:54

it is deregulation. Sometimes it is cutting

31:56

through bureaucracy. Sometimes it's bringing a lot

31:58

more expertise and capability in... It's an

32:00

amazing thing as a run around talking

32:02

about how bloated the government is. Since

32:05

the 1960s, the size of the federal

32:07

civilian workforce has barely budged. We employed

32:09

about 2 million people in it then,

32:11

we employ about 2 million people in

32:13

it now, give or take the people

32:15

he's fired. You want to look at

32:18

government and say, what does it need

32:20

to be able to do? And what

32:22

resources and rules does it need to

32:24

have in order to achieve it? What

32:26

they've done, I think, is an effort

32:29

to create an ideological purge, break the

32:31

thing, and control it? We have a

32:33

whole chapter on problems that make it

32:35

harder for scientists who make it 40%

32:38

of their year. filling out grant proposals.

32:40

It's also really important, we're not firing

32:42

all the scientists. Like, we can choose.

32:44

Well, I'm sorry, I wanna ask you,

32:46

you and your co-author, Derek, have talked about

32:49

this on your book tour, that Operation

32:51

Warp Speed was arguably Trump's single greatest

32:53

success. If you were ever gonna get

32:55

a Nobel Peace Prize, it should have

32:57

been for that. Yet he runs away

32:59

from it, and he's actually defunding some

33:01

of this MRNA vaccine research. But Democrats

33:04

also haven't been quick to embrace. federal

33:06

government with the private sector to be

33:08

able to do something remarkable in historic

33:10

time. Do you think is partisanship getting

33:12

in the way of something that could

33:14

be a model for many things we

33:16

could do going forward? Partisanship definitely gets

33:19

in the way. I don't think it's fair

33:21

the Democrats don't like public-private partnerships. I mean

33:23

Tesla was saved by an Obama or a

33:25

loan guarantee program that also funded cylindra. But

33:27

it is true that Operation Warp Speed became

33:29

an orphan. Trump ran away from it because

33:31

his party turned anti-vax. And Democrats didn't want

33:34

to credit Trump but having done something well.

33:36

But Operation Warp Speed is a beautiful program.

33:38

What we did was we speed ran. I

33:40

mean, you were there. We created a speed

33:42

run for how to get vaccines out. But

33:44

then, and I think this is amazing. The

33:47

price of a vaccine was $0. Right? Because

33:49

of the federal government had been so instrumental

33:51

in the creation of it, we then said

33:53

that there's going to be on the other

33:55

side, an expansion of who can get it.

33:57

It's not just for the rich. It's not...

34:00

just for whomever can pay. And to

34:02

us, it's a huge model. I would like

34:04

to see Operation Warp Speed replicated across

34:06

10 or 12 domains. There is a

34:08

lot of the book we haven't talked about

34:10

is about innovation. There is so much

34:12

we need to pull from the future

34:14

into the present to create the kind of

34:16

present we want. But if we're going

34:18

to do it, then fairness and distribution has

34:21

to be part of that deal too.

34:23

It shouldn't just be we create research

34:25

that the private market then uses and then

34:27

uses and then slaps a patent a

34:29

patent on and then. to purchase, like that's

34:31

crazy. You know, it's funny, your book

34:33

is called Abundance, and basically what I

34:35

see is cut, cut, cut, cut, the opposite

34:38

of abundance. That's what I see going

34:40

on in government right now. Cut this, cut

34:42

this, cut that, but take it away.

34:44

It's like going through somebody's birthday party

34:46

and taking all the gifts. Anyway, our thanks

34:48

to Ezra Klein. You can buy his

34:50

book, abundance by scanning the QR code

34:52

on your screen, and members of our audience

34:55

are going home with a copy. Hello,

40:44

it's Robin Roberts here. Hey

40:47

guys, it's George Stephanopoulos here.

40:49

Hey everybody, it's Michael Straighthand

40:51

here. Wake up with Good

40:53

Morning America. Robin George, Michael,

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GMA, America's favorite number one

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41:09

morning America! Put the good

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41:36

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41:38

it's George Stephanopoulos here. Hey everybody,

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41:42

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41:45

Michael, GMA, America's favorite number one

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41:58

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