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0:30

here we are behind the table joined

0:32

not only by our own Sunny Austin,

0:34

but by Senator Corey Booker. Welcome. Thank

0:36

you so much for being here. Thank

0:38

you for this very enviable seat between

0:40

the two of you. Honored to have you

0:42

on the show today, and this was something

0:44

that came together late last week, and

0:46

we're so happy you were able to

0:48

make time for us on this busy

0:50

schedule of yours. I'm grateful to be

0:53

here. It's really, as we were talking

0:55

before you started the podcast, you've created

0:57

something really special. a sense of community

0:59

at a time that we need more

1:01

connection. And frankly, the conversations that you

1:03

all have are not easy conversations often,

1:05

but they're important conversations. No, and I

1:08

think what makes the view special is

1:10

they reflect the conversations that people are

1:12

having on the street every day right

1:14

now with their friends and family. We're

1:16

so honored to have you here for

1:18

this. If we can go back to

1:20

your 25 hour speech on the Senate

1:22

floor, you know, we've been talking about

1:25

it since the election. what does resistance

1:27

look like right now? And what are

1:29

people hoping for? What are people looking

1:31

for? And I think immediately after the

1:33

election, everyone felt kind of nomadic in

1:35

how they were dealing with it. There

1:37

wasn't some galvanizing moment. And I think

1:39

you provided that last week for many

1:42

people. More than anything else has.

1:44

Is this what resistance should look like

1:46

if you're looking for resistance? Well, you

1:48

know, first of all, I think that...

1:50

We were all taught that if you do

1:52

the things you always do, you're going

1:54

to get the results you always get.

1:57

And so if these are unusual times,

1:59

we have to be... willing to take

2:01

on unusual actions ourselves. So I think

2:03

that goes for everybody. The second thing

2:05

I want to say is I resist

2:08

the label of resistance a little bit.

2:10

And this is what I mean by

2:12

that. Could you call civil rights activists

2:15

who got on freedom rides and? did

2:17

marches as resistors or were they actually

2:19

standing up for our shared values? In

2:22

many ways, I think that what Donald

2:24

Trump is doing with a lot of

2:26

his actions around taking away health care

2:28

or shaking social security or assaulting and

2:31

laying off tens of thousands of veterans,

2:33

I think what he is doing is

2:35

an assault and that we don't need

2:38

to resist it. We need to stand

2:40

up against it. We need to stand

2:42

up for... are common values and common

2:45

ideals. And so the more people that

2:47

stand up for compassionate empathy and love,

2:49

the more people that stand up for

2:52

health care and retirement security and our

2:54

veterans, that's really what I want to

2:56

do. He is the one that in

2:59

many ways is the assaulter. We are

3:01

the ones that are standing strong for

3:03

our values. I completely agree with you

3:06

because I've said that on the show

3:08

from day one. It's not resistance to

3:10

me feels... Also like a passive action

3:13

where opposition feels active, you know, and

3:15

so I think I agree with Brian.

3:17

I think you provided what opposition to

3:19

an assault looks like as opposed to

3:22

being passive about it. You were active

3:24

and I was just so proud because

3:26

I've known you for a long time.

3:29

But but in terms of people opposing

3:31

these actions and standing up for these

3:33

actions. We saw that, I think, all

3:36

over, not only this country, but all

3:38

over the world. We're talking about tens

3:40

of thousands of people resisting, not resisting,

3:43

but opposing these actions in the streets.

3:45

What do you think about that? Do

3:47

you think, does that give you some

3:50

sort of hope that what you started

3:52

is really galvanizing the country? noble voices,

3:54

millions of them already speaking out. I'm

3:57

a bit of a social media follower

3:59

and I've seen these creative young people,

4:01

creative, esteemed elders really speaking up. But

4:03

I did notice which shocked my staff

4:06

was. that the American ideal is hope

4:08

for the world. Yes. And when my

4:10

staff told me that 350 million people

4:13

on TikTok liked it, yes, actively like

4:15

pressed a heart, that showed me that

4:17

it wasn't just Americans, but yet the

4:20

world who is yearning for America to

4:22

be America. And so that's what's exciting

4:24

me right now is that there is

4:27

a movement of people who have been.

4:29

trying to break through for a long

4:31

time, that they're now finally seeing more

4:34

people join them. I have to say,

4:36

and I confess this during my speech,

4:38

that my constituents have been demanding saying

4:41

I'm not doing enough and I own

4:43

that, that I am in many ways

4:45

by stepping out and doing things differently

4:48

and joining those who are already doing

4:50

it. This is how movement start. The

4:52

civil rights movement didn't start in the

4:54

60s. It started decades earlier of people

4:57

doing things. Often they would end up

4:59

in jails or lynched. But now we're

5:01

seeing this movement really start to take

5:04

off as we saw this past weekend

5:06

with millions of people coming out, but

5:08

we cannot stop until the threat is

5:11

gone. I'm so curious because you just

5:13

mentioned that you follow social media pretty

5:15

closely. I do too, but we have

5:18

that conversation here a lot about whether

5:20

it matters, whether it's just noise. I'm

5:22

curious what you pay attention to, what

5:25

social media you look at. So I

5:27

try to be out there a lot.

5:29

I try to, you know, the algorithms

5:32

worry me because I know they're serving

5:34

up often what confirms. So I'll actively

5:36

search for people that are a little

5:38

bit out of my... You'll try to

5:41

get out of the algorithm. Out of

5:43

the algorithm or rely on a lot

5:45

of friends to push me things. So

5:48

I invite some of my closest friends

5:50

who I know are in different verticals

5:52

than I am to push me things.

5:55

And again, what... I'm seeing right now,

5:57

even in the conservative world, is conservative

5:59

voices starting to say, no, uh-uh, from

6:02

Bill Ackner, who I've known for a

6:04

long time, saying. Come on, this is

6:06

wrong. To the American Enterprise Institute, which

6:09

is a right-leaning thing tank, calling out

6:11

today saying, look, we looked at the

6:13

math that you used to come up

6:16

with this, and it's nonsensical. There's no

6:18

strategy here. There may be noble ideals

6:20

that America continues to be the economic

6:23

powerhouse of the planet, but what you're

6:25

doing is actually jeopardizing that. And that's

6:27

why it's very important for me to

6:29

whenever possible to get us out of

6:32

our partisan grooves and lanes. We have

6:34

to call our country. to start being

6:36

for something greater than the lines that

6:39

divide us and affirm that we have

6:41

ties that bind. And the story I

6:43

often tell, because I travel around, you

6:46

and I were just talking about that,

6:48

when you go out in public, there's,

6:50

you know, people will yell what they

6:53

want to yell at you. I often

6:55

feel like next month is Mother's Day.

6:57

I'm happy Mother's Day to you. You

7:00

may consider sending me a card because

7:02

I often get yelled, you mother. Until

7:04

this day I get on the plane

7:07

and people are being nice to me

7:09

and putting up my hand and I

7:11

sit down next to a woman from

7:13

two, a mother, 80 and 60. And

7:16

they look at me in their southern

7:18

accent and they say, from where my

7:20

family's originally from, and they say, who

7:23

are you? Why are people paying attention

7:25

to you? Are you a professional athlete?

7:27

And so a big black guy that's

7:30

often an assumption. There may be a

7:32

part of me that wants to get

7:34

insulted, but my ego. I'm not. And

7:37

they go, well, who are you? I

7:39

go, I'm a United States Senator. And

7:41

immediately, most Americans want to know when

7:44

they meet a Congressperson out in the

7:46

wild. Are you with them? Are you

7:48

with us? What tribe are you in?

7:51

And she goes, are you a Democrat

7:53

or Republican? And I go, ma'am, I

7:55

took a deep breath and I go,

7:58

ma'am, I'm a Democrat. And then she

8:00

looks angry and sour, crosses her arms.

8:02

And she goes, I should have brought

8:04

my. Trump hat and she swivels away

8:07

facing her daughter in the window and

8:09

I'm like I know this song yeah

8:11

it is a horrible song it's played

8:14

not just in the public it's played

8:16

it or workplaces it's played at our

8:18

Thanksgiving tables yeah and I'm not playing

8:21

I'm not dancing this tune and I

8:23

go to her ma'am Donald Trump, he

8:25

signed two of the biggest bills I've

8:28

ever written in Congress into law. One

8:30

that liberated thousands of people from unjust

8:32

incarceration, a bill called the First Step

8:35

Act, and another one I wrote with

8:37

Tim Scott, Republican from South Carolina, they

8:39

got billions of dollars invested in the

8:42

lowest income rule in urban areas called

8:44

opportunity zones. And she was sort of

8:46

shocked that I was sort of praising

8:49

the president. And so she swivels back

8:51

towards me by the end of the

8:53

flight. We were laughing, talking, sharing stories

8:55

and affirming the truth. That we had

8:58

so much in common. More like than

9:00

that. And so if we start cutting

9:02

each other off. just because of who

9:05

they vote, and not realize that we

9:07

have so much common cause, then we're

9:09

going to fail to create ground that

9:12

we can build on. And so that's

9:14

what this moment calls for. People will

9:16

paint broad brushes and say, the Republicans

9:19

or the Democrats are missing that a

9:21

lot of people vote for who they

9:23

sincerely believe is going to help them.

9:26

And if you close the door and

9:28

condemn them just because of who they

9:30

voted for, or because how they identify

9:33

politically, politically, then you are hurting America.

9:35

You're and you're hurting yourself. I was

9:37

I was speaking to my mom who's

9:39

one of these people that you know

9:42

is firmly in the Never Trump. Yes,

9:44

he's screwing up our our country. I

9:46

don't want to speak to family members

9:49

that are Republican I'm not speaking to

9:51

that person and I tried to explain

9:53

to her that that it's wrong at

9:56

this point to say you were wrong.

9:58

I feel more comfortable with you were

10:00

misled You relied to. You didn't understand

10:03

what happened. And so that's the approach

10:05

I think that makes more sense. But

10:07

I want to follow up on a

10:10

question that I asked you that you

10:12

didn't really answer. Okay, go ahead. I

10:14

asked you about leadership in the Democratic

10:17

Party, and I know that you are

10:19

part of leadership in the Democratic Party,

10:21

but I wonder, because people needed the

10:24

fight that they saw in you for

10:26

25 plus hours, do you think that

10:28

you should be the new minority leader?

10:30

No, definitely not. I don't want that

10:33

job. Why? Because you brought so many

10:35

people together. I appreciate it. And Chuck

10:37

has been doing a, in the last

10:40

election, remember, we won Senate races. Yes.

10:42

Something that often is not done. In

10:44

fact, the only time I can think

10:47

of it is Susan Collins years ago,

10:49

won in her state when Obama won

10:51

her state. But rarely do you see

10:54

that where people split tickets in a

10:56

state. And we did that with Tammy

10:58

Baldwin. We did it with Reuben Diego.

11:01

And you know, so again, I look

11:03

at Chuck as somebody who has a

11:05

record of success and he has the

11:08

caucus support. There's just no way he

11:10

is a firm hold on the 47

11:12

of us. But that doesn't take away

11:14

from my role in to be a

11:17

leader, to be a leader in the

11:19

Senate, but more importantly, is to try

11:21

to be to offer leadership in our

11:24

in our country and our community. And

11:26

I'm going to tell you this right

11:28

now. There is a new era coming.

11:31

Okay. And I mean this sincerely, the

11:33

baby boomers, which I look at as

11:35

a civil rights legislation through my lens,

11:38

civil rights generation. Yes. They are being

11:40

called home. Many of them are leaving

11:42

their positions. Many of them are leaving

11:45

us like John Lewis. No matter what,

11:47

you can't stop generational change in this

11:49

country. X-genz, millennials, and Z. And Z.

11:52

It's our day is dawning. And so

11:54

you're going to see Nancy Pelosi step

11:56

aside. King Jeffries take that spot. The

11:59

first X-gen leader there. You're now going

12:01

to see Chuck Schumer. No matter what

12:03

you say, he's not gonna be there.

12:05

He's got, in terms of his leadership,

12:08

I know he's gonna live to his

12:10

hundreds, but in his leadership, there are

12:12

more yesterdays than tomorrow, that change is

12:15

coming. This is. definitively the last baby

12:17

boomer president and we've had a lot

12:19

of baby boomer. We've had a lot

12:22

of them. This is the last baby

12:24

boomer president and so it's now time

12:26

for a new generation of leaders to

12:29

start to emerge and leadership is not

12:31

a title or a position. It is

12:33

a demonstration. It is a way of

12:36

going. And what I want to see

12:38

from this next generation, and we've got

12:40

an incredible rising talent in America, is

12:43

I want them to start showing their

12:45

leaders before they're given a leadership title.

12:47

And right now. This is a test.

12:49

Like, who is going to step in

12:52

this time and step up and lead?

12:54

Well, the rule books been thrown out

12:56

and the Democratic Party seems, it seems

12:59

to me, is still playing by the

13:01

same rules. And I can't do that.

13:03

That's where we agree. That's where we

13:06

agree. But I will tell you, and

13:08

I mentioned a lot of them during

13:10

my 25-hour speech, there are people in

13:13

my caucus that I am in awe

13:15

of. When Tammy Duckworth. Yes. who sacrificed

13:17

literally her legs. Yes. Almost died serving

13:20

for us. And when she comes, she

13:22

and I work on IVF. Yes. And

13:24

the threats that the Republican president and

13:27

others have done in giving people access

13:29

to reproductive freedoms. When she stands up

13:31

metaphorically, she speaks with a moral force.

13:34

She sure does. Mark Kelly is a

13:36

Jersey boy. I tease him all the

13:38

time. He's in the New Jersey Hall

13:40

of Fame, even though he's Arizona Senator.

13:43

When he stands up, this guy is.

13:45

a fighter pilot. He is a whiz

13:47

engineering. When he stands up, he speaks

13:50

with moral authority. There are so many

13:52

people in my caucus, Lisa Blunt Rochester,

13:54

one of our newest members. She has

13:57

changed the Senate along with Angel Also

13:59

Brooks, not just in breaking the glass

14:01

ceiling, doubling the number of black women

14:04

we've had as senators, but when they

14:06

stand up and talk about maternal mortality.

14:08

stand up and talk about a veteran

14:11

jobs. They speak with authority. So just

14:13

the change I'm seeing in the Senate.

14:15

When I came there, I was the

14:18

only African American in the caucus. It

14:20

was the least diverse place I'd ever

14:22

worked in terms of American voices coming

14:24

in. And we asked Chuck Schumer to

14:27

make a change. One of the, this

14:29

is a podcast conversation, not something for

14:31

a TV bite, but. We said to

14:34

Chuck Schumer, all this talk about DEA,

14:36

I said, Chuck, I said, this is

14:38

the least diverse place I've ever seen.

14:41

And what I want you simply to

14:43

do is make every Democratic Senator just

14:45

post the diversity statistics of their staff.

14:48

Don't force them or whatever, just create

14:50

transparency. And he told me he got

14:52

pushback from Democratic senators because it was

14:55

embarrassing, the lack of gender diversity they

14:57

had, religious diversity. Every year that we've

14:59

done that, the number of people in

15:02

the room where it happens, because the

15:04

truth about Congress is, staffers write legislation,

15:06

staffers decide which policy emphasis. And the

15:09

number of the amount of diversity and

15:11

what I'm hearing back in this 10

15:13

years I've been there with this incredible

15:15

change where you're seeing more women in

15:18

positions of authority in the Senate, chiefs

15:20

of staff, legislative directors, more minorities in

15:22

positions of authority. What I'm hearing now

15:25

from senators themselves is I was tackling

15:27

an issue. And I never thought of

15:29

this perspective. Yes. And when my staffer

15:32

told me the real real, you know,

15:34

I made a, I shifted my position

15:36

on this. I said that about Harry

15:39

Reid recently. Yes. He knew how to

15:41

be a minority leader, but his chief

15:43

of staff was a black woman. Yes.

15:46

Yes. And that's what makes it. When

15:48

all else fails, just just. And this

15:50

is why, again, an affront to what

15:53

Donald Trump is doing, you know, Harvard

15:55

Business School, McKininsian Company, they all say

15:57

that in business. diverse teams or more

15:59

successful teams, period. And that's one of

16:02

the things that America has, is we

16:04

are the most multicultural democracy on the

16:06

planet Earth, and we are better. because

16:09

of that. It's a strain from not

16:11

a weakness. Look my dad! Born poor

16:13

in the South, and if he was

16:16

here, he would say, how dare you

16:18

say on that podcast that I was

16:20

poor? Tell him the truth. I was

16:23

just Pope, P.O. I couldn't afford the

16:25

other two letters. We traced his history

16:27

back to slavery, single mother poverty, single

16:30

mother poverty. And then my dad broke

16:32

out of that trap for a couple

16:34

reasons. One, because of a conspiracy of

16:37

love in that town that would not

16:39

let him fail. They pushed him to

16:41

college even though he never thought of

16:44

it as something option. Church Collection got

16:46

into college to an HBCU. Yeah. that

16:48

said we are going to be established

16:50

as an institution to start dealing with

16:53

the pipeline problems we have in America.

16:55

Now, HBCUs still today are responsible for

16:57

the most black teachers, black generals, black

17:00

doctors, comes to Washington DC at a

17:02

time that blacks aren't being hired by

17:04

major corporations. And because, again, diverse coalition

17:07

in DC, blacks and whites, putting pressure

17:09

on corporations, they became IBM's first black

17:11

salesman in the DC, Virginia, Maryland era.

17:14

Diversity program, but guess what? He became

17:16

instantly, not just qualified, he was qualified.

17:18

It's IBM's benefit to create a more

17:21

diverse applicant pool. Still hire the best

17:23

of the best, but diversify your pool.

17:25

Do a little harder. Go to HBCUs

17:28

and recruit. It's a little harder. Look

17:30

for, look for people to apply for

17:32

the position. Once he got the shot.

17:35

hungry kid from the south, he became

17:37

one of IBM's top five percent of

17:39

their global salesmen, got a promotion up

17:41

to Manhattan, and that's why my family

17:44

moved to New Jersey. And so that's

17:46

what diversity and inclusion is all about.

17:48

It's not about hiring people that are

17:51

not qualified. If you want to talk

17:53

about somebody hiring people not qualified. Look

17:55

at Donald Trump. Yeah, I mean he's

17:58

hiring people to for major legal positions

18:00

that never tried a case He's hiring

18:02

people to lead our military that even

18:05

our military generals are coming out and

18:07

saying this person's not qualified for the

18:09

job I want to ask you about

18:12

that because we're two weeks out since

18:14

this whole signal gate. Yes group chat

18:16

broke out and the White House said

18:19

case closed we're not investigating it it's

18:21

over now you're on the Senate Foreign

18:23

Relations Committee will there be some accountability

18:25

there because I mean that was just

18:28

one of it seems to me it

18:30

feels like a year ago now it's

18:32

everything else happening it was just two

18:35

weeks ago I mean I worked for

18:37

the federal government I was a federal

18:39

prosecutor That's baseline. You cannot use a

18:42

signal group chat for government business. But

18:44

that is their intention. They want to,

18:46

as they say, flood the zone, so

18:49

you forget about the horrors of last

18:51

week. But this, this goes to the

18:53

very security of our country. And there

18:56

are obvious questions which have not been

18:58

answered. Like, is this the... typical pattern

19:00

in practice for our intelligence people. If

19:03

there was one signal chain. How many

19:05

others are there? How many others are

19:07

there? There needs to be an investigation.

19:10

And this is what I mean about

19:12

eroding the Constitution of the United States.

19:14

And you know this as a lawyer,

19:16

the federalist papers, the debates around, they

19:19

said that we need a system of

19:21

checks and balances. Congress was established with

19:23

one of their roles is to provide

19:26

oversight of the executive. And we have

19:28

not had one hearing to ask the

19:30

questions that are vital to our national

19:33

security. Would we be able to have

19:35

them? Again, we're in the minority. We've

19:37

been pushing for this, challenging for this.

19:40

I've had private conversations with Republican senators

19:42

who were outraged by this. But the

19:44

question is... Will you do the right

19:47

thing or will you kowtow to Donald

19:49

Trump who doesn't want you to have

19:51

hearings, doesn't want those questions asked in

19:54

the open forum? This is about our

19:56

national security. Will you put your patriotism

19:58

over your party? Will you put your

20:00

belief in love of country and its

20:03

security over your allegiance to Donald Trump

20:05

and what he's doing in this case,

20:07

which is wrong, wrong, wrong. Vianic has

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