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1:00

Fussing with plastic cards should be a thing of

1:03

the past. Instead, pay the

1:05

Apple way. Apple Pay

1:07

is easy, secure, and built into

1:09

iPhone. All you have to do is set

1:11

it up. Just add a card in

1:13

the Wallet app and you're good to go. I

1:18

need sports to have to clear the

1:20

room. Stand up and walk

1:23

now. Hello and welcome to

1:25

The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I

1:27

am an editor at theringer.com and joining me

1:30

in the studio with a

1:32

Stanley bottle full of the water of life,

1:35

it's Stanley Greenwooow!

1:38

A day late, a few dollars short.

1:40

It's my B, honestly. So just a

1:42

shout out to the Watch listeners. I'm

1:44

so sorry for us not blessing you

1:46

with your usual Monday episode. I

1:48

just straight up, I fucked up. I

1:51

just double booked and it's rare for me.

1:53

I'm usually pretty... I try

1:55

to be on top of my schedule and I

1:57

just had a rollicking weekend of stuff. and

2:01

was sitting here ready to record the watch and then I looked

2:03

at my schedule and I was like I'm supposed

2:05

to record the world watchables right now So

2:08

I had to go do that and Andy was very

2:10

accommodating with his schedule as was Kaya But

2:12

here we are a day after this is amazing

2:14

because I feel like unless you are a voter

2:16

in the state of Arizona You're not used to

2:18

accountability Like just standing up

2:21

come and clean with your voters. That's right. That's

2:23

right. Well, I appreciate that That's really kind Pearson

2:25

taught me. Well, you know civility working

2:28

with Reaching across

2:30

the aisle and it's great to see you

2:32

a little bit admin. So today obviously we're a daylight

2:34

But we're gonna do some talk about a

2:36

film Andy saw not on an airplane And

2:39

it's called Dune part 2 then we're

2:41

gonna talk a little bit of other like

2:43

trailers stuff We've been watching a little bit

2:45

in between stuff We've got a ton of

2:48

mailbag questions, which I solicited from

2:50

our Facebook group on Sunday and they were so

2:52

generous They gave us hundreds of

2:54

questions. So we're gonna split that

2:56

will answer some today Well, it's there some on

2:58

Thursday after we're done talking about Shogun episode 3

3:01

which will be airing last night

3:03

tonight Tuesday Tuesday up now,

3:05

I think yeah, we wanted to tell

3:07

our listeners. No one has asked us

3:09

to do this We've got no feedback.

3:11

But apparently we've been saying Shogun goes

3:13

up on Wednesdays now I You

3:17

know you and I we stan a network

3:19

that doesn't mind when podcasters get that wrong. Yeah

3:22

And we got it wrong. Yeah. Well, it's fine. It's

3:24

cool. You just admit defeat. We're wrong It's something I

3:27

think we should lean into the bit and just be

3:29

like House of the Dragon now airing on Wednesdays on

3:31

Paramount That

3:34

becomes a little bit more like sabotage at

3:37

that point a couple things yeah, what's on

3:39

stick the landing this week This

3:41

week is a very special one and they're

3:43

all special But this

3:46

week we did my favorite television show of all

3:48

time Twin Peaks. It was me

3:50

Joe Rowe and Chant

3:52

to Joe Rowe the best to do it

3:54

honestly and listen to check out Joe

3:56

and Rob doing Shogun recaps They're doing

3:58

a great job. They have known for months

4:00

that the show airs on Tuesdays. So

4:04

I think that's the main way to differentiate between

4:06

the two feeds. This

4:08

was something I've wanted to talk about for a while. I

4:11

think we talked about the

4:13

season two finale from

4:15

the early 90s that affected every

4:17

moment of my life since, as well as the finale

4:20

of Twin Peaks The Return. Two

4:23

things that I took away from this. Did you talk about the last few

4:25

minutes of Firewalk with me? No, but

4:27

would you like to? I'm always a villain to talk about

4:29

that. I didn't know that about you.

4:32

I love everything about Twin Peaks

4:35

so much. And my takeaway from the experience

4:37

podcasting is I wish I

4:39

could podcast about Twin Peaks more. There was a

4:41

lot there and also so much that I walked

4:43

away being like, that was great. No one

4:45

better to talk about this. You always do a Twin Peaks rewatch, man. No

4:47

one better to talk about this with than, I guess you. I

4:50

was gonna say Joanna, but maybe all three of us. But also

4:52

that I feel like there was just so much left on set

4:54

that I just didn't quite get to. But that was kind of-

4:56

Did you prepare some remarks you'd like to- Kaya,

4:59

who was sitting in, feels that there's no way that we

5:01

didn't get to something because it was a very long one.

5:03

I can't wait to check that one out. And

5:05

yeah, exciting stuff coming from Stick the Landing

5:07

industry soon, right? Oh yeah, you think? Maybe,

5:09

who knows? We'll see. I mean,

5:12

I was excited back when I thought someone was a

5:14

reliable scheduler. And now that the

5:16

first chip in the veneer has appeared.

5:18

Bro, I'm sorry. No, I don't like

5:20

it. I hate that you do. I don't

5:22

like not being on my square. It's tough

5:24

to balance the watching and the rewatching but on

5:26

these podcasts, I get it. You had some fun

5:28

stuff happen today. Oh yeah, I also

5:31

just wanna say if I'm particularly zined out today,

5:33

it's not because of the nicotine needles that are

5:35

jammed into my gum line. I

5:38

had the most fun morning because Chris, speaking

5:40

of a day late or 1000 days late, a

5:44

USA original show called Briar Patch is

5:46

premiering in Latin America. That's awesome. So

5:49

I did 13 interviews

5:51

in two hours with

5:53

all sorts of new amigos from

5:55

Columbia to Argentina, Uruguay,

5:59

Panama. Brazil it

6:01

was really really fun. So if you are in any of these

6:03

countries It was just it's such a you know

6:05

I love thinking that so much and I love getting the

6:07

chance to talk about it So if we have listeners in

6:09

these countries, you will get to see this show

6:12

in June, I believe awesome What

6:14

are the week is there and lat-am? Overall

6:17

platform is like a USA. There's

6:19

a there's a melange if you

6:21

will of like USA Latin America

6:23

There's universal plus streaming service, I

6:25

think Whatever your

6:27

local version of any up for all of them

6:29

you know I via

6:32

VPN just give me all these

6:34

lat-am peacocks one foot One

6:37

last bit of just you know, really relevant

6:39

Briar Patch admin for the diehards. I

6:41

was just thrilled I just feel like most people who are

6:43

really fans know this but prior

6:47

to this big launch The

6:49

show was only streaming in in

6:51

what I term key markets. I'm sorry key market.

6:53

Yeah, and I don't want

6:56

to bear. I mean, you know that prior

6:58

patch has been airing to great acclaim in

7:00

the island nation of Mauritius Oh,

7:02

I didn't know that I Mean

7:05

no disrespect to the people of the

7:07

beautiful island nation of Mauritius But I

7:09

think of I can think of no better just

7:12

just avatar of my experience

7:15

in the streaming economy Then

7:18

having a show that is available in

7:20

almost no part of the world, but

7:22

really available In

7:25

a country smaller than East Los Angeles is

7:27

a Mauritius supposed to be pretty what was

7:29

that? Where is that? My

7:31

favorite thing is that if you Google

7:33

Mauritius you get a picture that is

7:35

primarily Africa, uh-huh Secondarily

7:38

all of Madagascar and

7:40

then like Jimmy said to Karen and good

7:43

fellas keep going It's

7:46

done a little bit further. Keep going. No, no

7:49

You what you want to be airing in

7:51

is a country where the name of the

7:53

country on the map dwarfs

7:56

The land mass of the country. Yeah, you know, so You

7:59

know The way some people are here for a

8:01

good time, not a long time. I'm not here for everyone. I'm

8:04

just here for Marishans. Greenwald.

8:07

Yeah, you want to talk about Dune? You

8:09

don't want to put this off any longer? No,

8:11

I mean, I'm very curious You paint me a

8:13

word picture talk about the experience and then we'll

8:15

get into your feelings on the movie I obviously

8:17

I went on big picture Right

8:20

the day the movie came out. So I've shared my enthusiasm

8:22

for the movie It'll come as no surprise because you also

8:24

you wanted to make clear that you saw it before the

8:27

movie came out Just a

8:29

day or two is actually you the

8:31

genpop could have gotten in they just had to

8:33

be on top of their Of

8:35

their business and get get those those first screenings. Is

8:37

that what you were? Did you you were just like

8:40

smashing? Oh smashing a fan going a damn IMAX. No

8:42

Mallory did all the hard work. So I just I

8:44

got a ticket via mouth Oh, so Mallory invited her

8:46

friend and then I don't know if you know that

8:48

me and the midnight boys sat like in a row

8:52

Yeah, should I check my spam filter? I'd like

8:55

For the invite. Yeah, I invited

8:57

you you did. Yeah, I was

9:00

like you want to come is the last second. Yeah Did

9:03

that you send that to me or to my people? What

9:09

did you think of the movie come on I

9:12

think I want me to paint a picture. I get paid a picture and

9:14

then I don't need to be coy that I am a I

9:17

am a dune head. I've been dune-pilled Okay

9:20

I'm so into this whole thing. But

9:22

I I have some I have

9:25

a little pushback on some aspects of it But I had

9:27

a great experience. I love

9:31

how Fucking weird this movie

9:33

is and how big it is and

9:35

how all of the algos are now

9:37

just pumping me Just joke content.

9:39

You know your Facebook newsfeed. Um Yes,

9:43

I mean I was no free ads but

9:47

Advertise your I was actually thinking about you

9:49

today because Meadow was down Oh my

9:52

god, and I was like I

9:54

wonder Andy can neither post noodles

9:56

or read about fantastic forecasting rumors.

9:58

That's true Luckily,

10:01

I have a VPN in Mauritius where I

10:03

can kind of like... Back

10:06

door into Palo Alto. It's

10:11

so crazy to me how big

10:13

this is and it was really fun. I went to

10:15

the new Vista Theater for

10:17

LA Heads. This is an old theater

10:20

in Silver Lake, Los

10:22

Feliz that Quentin Tarantino has purchased

10:24

and turned into a repertory house.

10:26

It's gorgeous. It's actually mostly first-run

10:28

stuff. They

10:31

were doing the IB Tech Festival there, so they

10:33

had some rep stuff, but for the most part,

10:35

they've had Napoleon's Zone of Interest and now Dune,

10:37

I think has been so far there. It's like

10:39

a showcase place to show movies that you've approved

10:41

of on film. It's got to be on 35

10:43

film, I think. Or

10:46

70. Yeah.

10:49

So, a great experience. And

10:51

I, for the first 90

10:55

minutes of this movie, and we're going to talk about the movie,

10:57

we're going to talk to people. Do

10:59

you want to warn anyone? Oh,

11:02

spoilers for Dune. Thanks, pal. I

11:07

was... Kai, is he Dune? Unfortunately,

11:09

no. I was visiting my parents. They didn't want to see

11:11

Dune? They didn't want to see Dune? They're not like theater people.

11:13

I asked my dad... It's not a musical. I asked my dad,

11:15

I said, are you interested in Dune? I said, I'm not interested in Dune. I

11:17

said, I'm not interested in Dune. I said, I'm not interested in Dune.

11:19

I said, are you interested in Dune? And

11:21

he said, yeah, I just watched the first one a

11:24

couple weeks ago. And he said, yeah, second one's out

11:26

this week. And he's like, oh wait. That's

11:28

my lawn too. That's awesome. But I

11:31

did watch Napoleon with them. Oh, fun. Which

11:33

was surprisingly good. Oh, good. I

11:35

thought you were going to say to your dad, are you interested

11:37

in Dune? He would have been like, Dune what? Am I right?

11:40

Classic dad joke. Classic dad. Okay.

11:43

So, for the first 90 minutes of this movie, I was

11:46

levitating one of those moth copters. I

11:49

cannot stress how fucking

11:52

rad it is to see a filmmaker

11:54

so in his bag making,

11:56

doing visual

11:59

storytelling. like the way all other big

12:01

budget movies have been attempting to do

12:03

for the last decade, but making you

12:05

feel something making you Understand

12:07

the artistry making you not notice the

12:10

seams and be like holy shit. That's

12:12

big. That's loud Yeah Heavy the gravity

12:14

of stuff the artistry of it the

12:16

conception the level of detail from what

12:18

must have been storyboards years ago to

12:21

pulling it off with CGI that you

12:23

don't even notice the CGI is so

12:25

jaw-dropping and so honestly

12:27

inspiring that the level

12:30

of commitment and craft and Just

12:32

all little details. So like I just

12:34

love that He only cast freaks just

12:36

like absolute just like weirdos in these

12:38

parts from walking to Your

12:41

guy Austin Butler who we're gonna talk about I

12:44

was thrilled. I Have to

12:46

confess and I don't know if I haven't like done

12:48

a lot of deep reading about other people's reactions I'm

12:50

curious, you know, you're you're Vox Popula over there um

12:54

if this is in any way if this is a shared opinion after

12:56

the Harkon

12:58

in Lenny reef install after

13:02

Austin Butler's arena cannibal Corpse.

13:05

Yeah, right that whole thing the black and

13:07

white incredible showpiece The

13:09

movie kind of jumped a track for me Okay,

13:11

and it was hard for me to get back

13:13

into it and I started to watch it in

13:16

a way that I didn't love which was Kind

13:19

of bumping on the just breathless

13:21

plot turn to get to where the

13:23

movie needed to go so like is

13:25

that before I think

13:28

it's Johnny and and Paul

13:33

like have a bunch of second act scenes where they're

13:35

kind of like kind of

13:37

obviously like their relationship blossoms

13:40

Right, that's like before

13:43

or after the awesome. That's before I

13:45

thought that was nice. It's the second x software We

13:47

have to get south we have to go south. Yeah,

13:49

I won't go south. I shall become a messiah and

13:51

kill everyone She's like, no, you won't come with me.

13:53

He's like I will and then he does and then

13:55

she's mad at him He's like girl. I told you

13:57

I was gonna become an evil messiah What?

14:01

Did you not get the like you were CC'd

14:03

on that email? Come on, man.

14:06

You know what I mean? You can't go mad. You

14:08

can't govern the human heart. Why is she so mad?

14:10

He told, he literally told her what would happen if

14:12

he went south. Because he also takes the other woman's

14:14

hand in marriage. We're getting to that. Listen,

14:17

the fact that this entire movie. The

14:20

one-day-morning quarterback, my guy Paul. The fact

14:22

that this entire movie leads to the

14:24

ultimate meta inside joke, where he's just

14:27

like yeah, I'm in Dune 2, into

14:29

Dune 2 chicks at the same time.

14:33

And that's the plot of the movie? Applause.

14:36

Applause for that. You

14:39

liked the fact that it became a love triangle. Well,

14:41

look, have you been, polyamory is in. I don't know if

14:43

you've been written in York Times. I get York Magazine delivered

14:45

to my home. Okay. So, can

14:48

we talk about the cat cover? My

14:51

children are like, this is the best magazine

14:53

cover ever. Can we put this on the wall?

14:56

Cover line. Can we? No, no. So,

15:00

I want to be clear. I fucking

15:02

love this. Yeah. Sometimes

15:05

it's more interesting to talk about the issues that you have

15:07

in the movie that it is. Just be

15:09

like, Danny is in his bag. And my thing

15:11

was, there is, so there's two pieces

15:13

here. There is a plot churn. Now,

15:16

I want to be clear. The fact that he is

15:18

so faithful to the book, from

15:20

what I understand, and that Paul's turn

15:22

is not necessarily a traditional heroic

15:24

turn. And that that's complicated. And I think

15:27

that I would understand if some audience members

15:29

are bumping on that. And I kind of love that, that

15:31

this is not just a... It

15:34

is, in essence, from what I'm

15:36

understanding by the plot here, this is Superman, but

15:38

it turns into the boys. In a way. Yeah.

15:41

And it's a depiction of

15:43

sort of cult-like fanaticism

15:45

and power, and the accumulation

15:47

of power, and the means to get power.

15:49

The fact that Paul can almost take

15:51

it or leave the fact that he is potentially

15:54

actually the Messiah and is using all

15:57

of this for political aims. I think

15:59

it's so fascinating. And it helps me

16:01

understand why Denis Villeneuve and all these other great

16:03

artists like love the story and have for so

16:05

long Yeah And it's like all the questions about

16:07

whether Paul is still in a trade ease or

16:09

he's a friend in or is a god They're

16:12

like, what is he right? And can you manipulate

16:14

or? Basically, can you

16:16

like play into the role that you get so

16:18

can you can you decide like yeah, if everybody

16:21

believes on the Messiah I'm gonna start behaving

16:23

like one my problem if I had one

16:25

was really Getting everyone getting

16:27

all those ducks in a row getting everyone

16:29

into that final battle scene That's

16:32

when I started to finally feel the

16:34

pace and momentum churn of a movie

16:37

Start to come into conflict with a 600 page

16:39

book that gives every detail of everything Sure, because

16:41

all of a sudden we are spending a ton

16:44

of time with You

16:46

know sort of like pre natal

16:49

Conversations where there's a lot

16:51

of we have to go south we can't go

16:53

south suddenly We're all riding worms. How did we

16:55

all get it? Why did we get an entire

16:57

community on a worm and then we're going through

17:00

storms and then three weeks past and he's drunk

17:02

the water And then he's woken up and then

17:04

the tears like it was such a mad mad

17:06

mad mad rush Yeah to get there that I

17:08

actually and I'm not saying that this I reject

17:10

the idea I did see some people

17:12

being like oh, there's so much story here There should have

17:14

been more movies or a TV show like no what makes

17:16

this good Yeah,

17:18

and he went for it, but I felt

17:20

myself Cleaving away

17:23

from this sort of like absolute joyful

17:25

Exhilaration of living present in it and starting

17:28

to be like this is all eight months

17:30

She hasn't given birth the baby yet Josh

17:32

Berlin's hair doesn't grow that fast. You're why

17:35

are you the arrakis OBGYN? Well,

17:37

first of all, I have a lot

17:39

of questions about just all

17:42

sorts of like birthing Because

17:45

they have a lot of okay. They have

17:47

a lot of opinions about water Right. They

17:50

live in the desert and then they're like don't

17:52

vomit that is special to

17:55

keep you alive Okay, speaker. That was my

17:57

job, but for real,

17:59

but then They're like, ah, but the

18:01

water we took out of our friend is

18:03

special water and we keep that water here

18:06

And if you you can't touch that water

18:08

even if you're dying and then in the

18:10

south They're like we keep a special jacuzzi

18:12

for the worm to just

18:15

kind of barf into sometimes Yeah

18:17

And look we just came off of True Detective season

18:19

4 where there's like a whole birthing center in a

18:22

similar pool minus the worm And I'm like, is that

18:24

we're? Talk to me about

18:26

what's happening here. Um, I think do

18:28

you think they tell baby? Hey,

18:31

so I know you're real up to

18:33

date with the maneuverings of Parashas

18:36

Saddam whatever his name is. Uh-huh

18:40

Just some like more micro Intel for the

18:42

next six weeks. Maybe that was on the

18:44

left on the cutting floor. Were they yeah

18:46

more Arrakis birthing techniques just

18:48

didn't make it in a lot. You're good

18:50

at happy. Yeah, just kind of the

18:52

tick-tock of it We're gonna play some music. I think

18:54

what you're reacting to is that the second act

18:57

of the films like the middle stretch of it is

19:00

dedicated towards establishing the

19:03

relationship between Chalamands

19:05

and a yep giving

19:07

it real Emotional

19:11

heft and giving and making people invest in

19:13

these two in a real like fuck am

19:15

I watching Titanic kind of way? Yeah, and

19:18

then you give them That's

19:20

what makes the turn so effective So I think

19:23

if he wants to make this movie for less than

19:25

two and a half hours If he wants the runtime

19:27

to be around two and a half or less He's

19:31

got to choose either I give short shrift to

19:33

the relationship building or I'm gonna have to count

19:35

on people being like yeah I get it like

19:37

they got it They got it yourself We don't

19:39

have to do like 20 minutes

19:41

of negotiating and whether who went south when

19:43

and but I agree with this I think

19:46

that he's making these choices Wisely

19:49

and well and that is also the spirit of this

19:51

whole project and that's what last week when we were

19:53

sort of previewing This is kind of what happened at

19:55

the end of thrones. Isn't this like the yada-yadaing? Well,

19:57

all of a sudden at the end of thrones, they

19:59

were And we're like, and now this, you

20:01

know? A little bit of that feeling for

20:03

sure. It also, I think I'm a little

20:06

bit bumping off the fact that what felt

20:08

so amazing about the first movie plus half

20:10

of this movie was that it was

20:12

like free jazz, but someone else knew all the notes.

20:14

Like they were following something and I don't really have

20:16

any familiarity with the subject matter. So I was just

20:18

like, I was just getting what I needed to

20:21

get and I kind of loved that. There was more for

20:23

me there if I wanted to read a book or Wikipedia.

20:26

The last part of this movie felt kind of

20:29

jammed up in a way that

20:31

suddenly, and I know this is the antithesis of

20:33

what this project has been, like late

20:35

period Marvel to me. I know what you mean. In

20:37

terms of no, no, there's just

20:39

so much that you're gonna have to take

20:41

our word for or no. And you start,

20:44

my, I don't wanna say you, but like my

20:46

eyeline started to wander because I'm like, what am

20:48

I supposed to be focusing on here? What is

20:51

the story versus all of the stories? I

20:54

personally just felt so rewarded by

20:56

the experience that I

20:59

really do see the 10 hour version of

21:01

this movie. That is like, we can take

21:03

painful steps to explain the

21:05

strategic approaches to

21:08

attacking. Like even, I would agree with

21:10

you that like the raid on

21:12

the Emperor's fortress globe

21:15

orb seems to be pretty much like

21:18

they go on like a, it's

21:20

like Drew Holiday, Chris steps, Porzingis brown,

21:24

are they basketball players? I'm

21:26

not familiar. They put

21:28

together a hell of a performance against the

21:30

Emperor's forces. Is Bill paying you more

21:32

like, like that you were

21:34

just. Well, if I do, I get a bonus.

21:38

If I start being like, they gotta

21:40

take a quarterback at three. Like if

21:42

I say that, I did, I did

21:44

actually nevermind. I was, my point being

21:46

is basically like, I think that they

21:48

probably could have made a lot more

21:50

out of like we blew up a

21:52

mountain to let an electrical sandstorm in. Yeah,

21:56

but like I'm glad that they didn't because I didn't wanna sit

21:58

there for three hours while they like. or like,

22:00

oh, sandstorms. It's not so much of that. It's

22:02

that, and I just

22:04

want to stress how much I love this whole

22:06

thing. I just found it really interesting to

22:11

basically be just high

22:13

for half of a movie, being

22:15

like, this is so deeply weird.

22:17

It is so weird in

22:19

its origin in terms of the

22:22

depth of world building, and what mattered

22:24

to Frank Herbert, and all these little

22:26

details, and then also Denis Villeneuve's devotion

22:28

to bringing those to life, and then

22:30

bringing them to life with such deep

22:32

specificity. I was like, this

22:34

is the up- And his affinity for design. Yeah,

22:37

he's unspeakably. I think he's affinity for, if you've

22:39

seen other films by him, especially like, I think

22:41

Sean and I were talking about Enemy,

22:43

and the

22:45

arachnoid gods that

22:47

are floating over Montreal in that movie,

22:50

that they have some influence on the Harkonnen

22:52

stuff. The vehicles, the Harkonnen stuff alone. This

22:55

is a four-star film, and

22:57

a 10-star exercise in imagination

22:59

and visual storytelling. It is

23:01

beyond, beyond, beyond. But the

23:04

feeling that I was getting of like, this

23:06

is the opposite of groupthink. There's no

23:08

fear, because that's the mind killer, in

23:10

the executive boardrooms here on big ticket

23:13

entertainment. And then we get

23:15

to the part of the movie where it's like, Brolin

23:17

is alive, and there are smugglers. I'm like, since when

23:19

have- Okay, I didn't know there were smugglers, and he

23:21

was alive, and he could get a mugger. Because this

23:23

is a little bit of your TV brain. No, no.

23:26

But I feel like you're not fully getting what I

23:28

mean, because then him showing up and being like, I'm

23:30

alive, by the way, your dad left

23:33

you- Nukes. Nuclear armaments

23:35

in this room, and it's not,

23:37

I'm not advocating for more detail

23:39

in the explanation. I don't want

23:41

that. I love, love, love that

23:43

all of a sudden, Paul's

23:46

like, they're like, big day for you. And it's

23:48

like, oh really? Yeah, you're fucking swag surfing on

23:50

a worm today. Great. I

23:52

didn't need to see his practice runs. I don't need to

23:54

see him playing- Did he get any- Tony Worm pro rider?

23:56

I was thinking about that actually, because it's like, how do

23:59

you practice that? Well,

24:01

you could do some kind

24:03

of body flexibility Pilates stuff, so I'd be

24:05

like, I've got balance, but can you really

24:07

practice? You can't know what worm riding is

24:09

like until you ride the worm. What's the

24:11

really expensive golf simulator that Tim Symons is

24:14

always trying to get someone to give him

24:16

for free? Because

24:18

they have a lot of really fancy

24:20

technology and then also none

24:23

at the same time. So I feel like they could have a

24:25

worm simulator. It's not out of the question. But

24:28

I want to be clear. I'm not saying

24:30

I wanted every single T crossed. When

24:32

it suddenly started moving along the lines

24:35

of a more engaged TV show type thing, now we

24:37

have to go here, he's here, he'll bring you there

24:39

and you'll go there, some of

24:41

that high flying magic. The compression bothers you

24:43

a little bit. It just knocked me out.

24:45

What do you think? I've thought about this.

24:48

I haven't read a ton about it. How

24:51

much do you consider this one long movie with one

24:53

and two? Obviously they're divided,

24:55

not necessarily as Dune 2 still

24:57

Dune in. This

24:59

is very much made with the same... I will laugh at any

25:01

one of those. They all make me laugh. It's

25:04

very much like the visual language of the

25:06

film is lockstep. Greg Frazier

25:08

shot both films. I

25:11

watched one again before watching

25:13

two and two picks

25:15

up literally moments after one is over.

25:18

In some ways, you

25:22

almost have to reassess what the middle act

25:24

of this film is because it's in fact

25:26

all the third act of... I

25:28

disagree. I think one

25:30

of the great things about this series is

25:33

that I think they are distinct movies. Very,

25:36

very distinct movies. I think they have different aims. I

25:38

think they have different influences. I think they

25:41

have different tones. Sometime

25:43

in the minutes between part one and

25:45

part two, Stilgar got jokes. He

25:48

became funny. That wasn't the part that he

25:50

was necessarily playing in the first movie. I

25:52

think John, this is holding him back. Yes.

25:56

Yes. My God, yeah, I do.

25:59

Stilgar was like... I have like a tight 10

26:01

I'd like to work on. No, it was like

26:03

Tyrese Maxie during the Hardin season. What's up with

26:05

all this fitting, am I right, guys? I

26:08

think I

26:12

had to counterbalance the really

26:15

sux reference you made a minute ago.

26:18

I love that about these movies. I

26:20

thought that the storytelling of the action

26:22

was different and the scale of it.

26:26

I really like that they seem to have been

26:28

different in a way. You want

26:31

to talk about some of the performances? Yes,

26:34

last thing though. What might be a tweak

26:36

on your question is my

26:39

understanding going in, having tried to stay away from a

26:41

bunch of it, was that this

26:43

was Denis Villeneuve's Dune. He

26:45

was Dune it, if you will. And

26:48

that would there be more? Maybe, the kind

26:50

of things that people always say. I think they've been very

26:52

savvy about doing that. I

26:54

think that there's some probably

26:57

anecdotal evidence that people

26:59

have gotten a little tired of feeling

27:02

like everything they see is part of

27:04

a larger puzzle. That's wonderful. And that

27:06

the stakes are kind of low

27:08

when it comes to this stuff. I'm

27:11

talking about IP Blockbuster's comic book

27:13

filmmaking. And I think by kind

27:15

of being like, if you want another one, if people

27:17

come and see it, we'll make another one. And I

27:19

think he's even said with Messiah or the third one,

27:21

whatever it winds up being, he's

27:24

going to wait a few years. And it's

27:26

good because they all are older. I

27:28

think it's like 10 years go by. 12 years. I

27:30

read when I have some late cursory Googling. Yeah,

27:33

I love the fact that he was just like, yeah, I'm

27:35

making this, but there's no like, that could be an ending.

27:37

It could serve as a series finale. No,

27:39

that is not the case for these movies. That

27:42

said, all

27:44

of a sudden when this was over and the way

27:46

that it ended really leaves no doubt

27:49

that there's a lot more story. So

27:51

that may affect how I was understanding of it, because I

27:54

guess in my mind, I was perceiving a little bit

27:57

more of a concrete and here and

27:59

maybe my. Expectations, maybe that's where

28:01

maybe you know what you know when your internal

28:03

odometer is out of step with something when

28:06

you're like No, yeah, you're like, oh

28:08

when you're like, oh, I thought there's ten minutes left

28:10

It's the New Jersey turnpike and then it's 7a, you

28:12

know, yes exit 7a. That's the one for great

28:14

adventure I thought we were almost six Yes.

28:18

Yes exactly that Exactly

28:20

that exact couldn't be better. You've nailed it

28:22

again Let's run through some of the cast

28:24

because I am curious to see what the

28:26

Hollywood fixer thinks of our of our Generation

28:28

of stars that are being minted in this

28:30

movie and very much Tim. I Thought

28:34

he's great. Yeah thought he was great

28:36

convincing physical presence Sorry,

28:39

what did you think he was a convincing physical

28:41

presence? Question mark as a kangaroo

28:43

mouse as As

28:46

a guy who could win a desert war. I

28:48

think that he is at his Worst

28:51

when he's yelling at people because

28:54

when he yells in the voice though. No

28:56

when he uses the voice Yeah, I respect

28:58

respect the voice got Rampling calling him an

29:00

abomination. God. She made him though Wait,

29:03

I did hold up back. Oh what? You're

29:06

like Johnny should have known what

29:08

that Tim that Paul was gonna go

29:10

for to so to speak

29:14

Patrick Moem style. Yeah, and Charlotte

29:16

Rampling has like You're

29:18

like sympathy for the Benny Jezzer it because

29:21

they made this dude known opposite of sympathy

29:23

I don't understand why everyone's surprised. Okay, when

29:25

people tell you who they are believe them

29:28

Okay, a great

29:30

Benny Jezzer it once said that okay,

29:32

I think I'm just saying who

29:35

did say that I forgot Michelle Obama. Okay,

29:37

she said it on leap day. Okay years ago. I

29:40

think that um, I Just

29:43

feel like in an era where

29:45

we are prioritizing direct and honest

29:47

communication. Are we Paul? Oh,

29:50

Kaya and I are Paul is like Let

29:53

me be clear with you if

29:56

I travel south an interstellar

29:58

genocide will launch And

30:00

she's like, come on. You know what

30:02

I mean? She's like, get in, Luther. We're going

30:04

swarming. Yeah, right. So they go, and then she's

30:07

mad. Similarly, rambling

30:09

is like, for 90 generations,

30:11

we've been tinkering with the bloodline in

30:13

pursuit of a messiah. The messiah shows

30:15

up, and she's like, gross. Now...

30:20

She's never been... She is not

30:22

a day one, though. She's like, I'm not even sure

30:24

I believe in all this stuff. Wait,

30:26

who? Johnny. Johnny, yeah,

30:28

that's why you're talking Reverend Revmo. Oh, yeah. Revmo

30:31

is like, she's got factions within factions.

30:33

She's like a Revmo underneath the Benny

30:35

Jets. Chris, do you spend more time

30:37

in the men's rights online forums than

30:40

I do? Jesus Christ, granola. So I

30:42

wondered... Sorry. Is

30:45

anyone watching this movie being like, the less of

30:47

this movie is... Got talked to four Latam journalists.

30:51

I'm global. Okay. You won't

30:53

change me at all. Is

30:56

there an interpretation of this movie where there are 90 generations

30:59

of making females magic and

31:02

then gives the water to one man once

31:04

and it's a wrap? What's

31:07

the critique? I feel like

31:09

there's a very strong men's

31:13

rights version of this movie that I'm

31:15

afraid of. Yeah, I'm sure there is.

31:18

I think that the political and social

31:20

underpinnings of this film are very interesting,

31:22

also since the source text is from

31:24

the 60s. Yes.

31:28

And he was... Frank Herbert was clearly a high AF. Yeah.

31:31

And I think that it's fascinating to

31:33

think about both Villeneuve's depiction

31:35

of, frankly, only

31:39

thinly veiled Islam. They're using much

31:41

of the language from it. As did Frank Herbert,

31:43

from what I understand. Exactly. And

31:45

how much PSY he's putting in his PSY is interesting.

31:49

How much of other worldly experiences

31:51

is this versus one that has... And

31:54

just this idea that it's like you get everyone

31:56

in the theater with beautiful stars and

31:59

understanding that we... We all now collectively

32:01

watch this kind of genre entertainment

32:03

and it's just like talking to

32:05

babies and worm gods and maybe power

32:07

isn't cool and we can't control radical

32:10

art. I mean it's heavy. Yeah. I

32:13

celebrate this. All of this was an

32:15

answer to your relatively direct

32:18

question. Did you like Tim Chalamet? Yeah. I

32:20

thought he was great. he's

32:23

still alive. I think he's supposed to

32:25

have some Mark Hamill though. I

32:27

think he's supposed to be like are we sure this

32:29

guy's got the goods? Yeah. I thought

32:31

he was great. What about Zendaya? I

32:35

felt like by the end I

32:37

love Zendaya but I feel like she was a little limited

32:39

by her still suit. Like not just physically in

32:41

terms of playing with babies. They do put her in a

32:43

spot where she has to stand up and then kneel like

32:46

15 times in the last 10 minutes. And kind of make

32:48

a you were serious face like she's sort of she's kind

32:50

of stuck but considering

32:52

the movie ends on

32:55

her I'm very interested to see what else

32:57

she can give us. Austin Butler. So

33:00

I don't think I'm a fan.

33:04

Is that outside the mainstream? It's been

33:06

an interesting experience with me with him. I

33:10

really like his taste. I

33:12

think he seems like a cool

33:14

nice guy. Did you see the clip where he's like I

33:16

really like listening to In Rainbows? And

33:18

I also was served and

33:21

have been sent multiple times. A Twitter

33:23

video of Austin Butler firing

33:25

a semi-automatic weapon and reloading it at a gun

33:28

range with an instructor. And it's pretty much the

33:30

scene from Once Upon a Time in Hollywood where

33:32

the person helping him is like that's the best

33:34

acting I've ever seen. And

33:37

the consensus is that he is training for Heat

33:39

2. Where he will play the Val Kilmer role.

33:42

That seems inevitable. That's cool. How

33:44

are you? Good for you. Yeah. Everything's

33:47

coming up crisp. We did it. Are you

33:50

happy about that? Yeah. It's just like

33:52

it really is. It

33:55

is pretty amazing. I was a little bit skeptical.

33:58

Especially after Ferrari's box office. But

34:01

it does seem like this is something that a lot of

34:03

people want to have happen So maybe it will happen my

34:05

thinking about him and I don't have a lot of I

34:08

don't I haven't seen Everything that the guy's

34:10

been in and he does seem like he's making

34:12

really good choices And who he's

34:15

working with and types of movies he's doing the vibe

34:17

I got was It was

34:19

it felt a little try hard to me and and

34:21

because I don't I think you have to be try

34:23

hard in that role I think so, but here's here's

34:25

the two reasons why I was kind of critical of

34:27

it like the the

34:31

way that that villain have wanted this character

34:33

to be is Really

34:35

on tilt and really like

34:38

perverse and he's not exactly like

34:41

Shrinking violet in the David Lynch version of it either.

34:43

No, but it's staying and he's just smirking a lot

34:46

the this one is much

34:48

much darker and Pretty wild and

34:50

I think that he was doing the signifiers of

34:52

it, but I didn't feel any Perversity

34:56

or menace from him. It's like

34:58

he was performing it and the

35:01

thing that really kind of took me out was that His

35:04

much like he was sort of celebrated and

35:06

then mocked for doing the Elvis

35:08

voice so accurately all the time He

35:11

just did scars guards voice Which

35:14

I get Ellen scars scars guards voice as Baron

35:16

Harkin and he did the exact same voice and

35:18

accent related She's

35:20

Bautista is his nephew too. You didn't do

35:22

the voice so this

35:24

seems like a really weird nitpick to say that just

35:26

felt like a idea placeholder of

35:29

a character cobbled together from Some

35:31

moves and someone else's voice that lacked that

35:33

then robbed it of what I thought it

35:35

needed to be the villain and the Benny

35:37

Jezza were betting on him too. It was

35:40

like Caleb Williams and Drake Bay up there

35:42

Let's talk about Leah say dues role in

35:44

this. Okay, cuz she's just like I accept

35:46

my assignments Like she's like an LDS missionary

35:48

and she's going to be she got the

35:50

worst assignment Yes, and she's just in the

35:52

MMA arena that is their everyday life there

35:54

and she's hanging out and she's got her

35:56

little opera glasses Right and then later than

35:58

seen later that night She's like,

36:01

hey, how are you

36:04

doing? And he's like, hello, why are

36:06

you here? I want to put a baby on it. Yeah,

36:08

she's like, I don't

36:10

know. It's really cute watching you come

36:12

to this with a seemingly zero knowledge

36:15

of the Dune story because you're just

36:18

so befuddled and charmed. Listen, I am.

36:20

That's why I kind of love it.

36:22

I'll say that in Dune,

36:24

much like life. Because even with the comic book

36:26

stuff, while I think you find it stupid at

36:28

times, but I actually know all

36:30

these different story lines and what drugs that comic

36:32

book writers were doing at the time. Dune, like

36:35

life, is really all about worms and boxes. You

36:37

know what I mean? That's what it all comes

36:39

down to in the end. And I can

36:41

relate to that. And the comic book

36:44

brain is firing. And

36:46

maybe that's actually going against

36:48

my engagement because I have Googled a

36:50

little bit because the scariest cover

36:52

in my, in

36:55

my school library was God

36:57

Emperor of Dune. And

36:59

then I'm like, oh, I wonder what that

37:01

is. Is that the next one he's doing?

37:03

It's not, but if you read it, it's

37:05

like the fifth or sixth book and it's

37:08

just like 10,000 years after the Messiahship of

37:10

Paul the Traite, a half a Traite, half

37:12

worm god rules the universe. And I'm like,

37:14

oh, okay. I don't think we're going to

37:16

get many more than three. I think three

37:18

is fine. I don't know.

37:21

I realized that we focus more on my

37:23

criticisms when I, give

37:25

me this, give me more of this. Get fucking

37:27

weird. The fact that this

37:29

is at least so far on the same

37:32

financial performance track as Oppenheimer, I think is

37:34

a great thing for the movies. And I

37:36

hope that, you

37:39

know, obviously it's Dune. Oppenheimer is Christopher Nolan

37:41

doing the invention of the nuclear bomb. There's

37:43

hooks to these things that are huge, but

37:46

these are the kinds of reasons why like when, when

37:48

Warner brothers is giving Paul Thomas Anderson a

37:51

hundred and something million dollars to make what

37:53

is or may not be Vineland, like with

37:55

DiCaprio, I'm like, who cares? It's like, you

37:57

know what I mean? Like it better. I'd

37:59

rather. see that happen then spending

38:02

200 million dollars once you're done

38:04

promoting it on Madam Web. Two

38:06

things before we move on. Walk-in. Emperor

38:09

Walk-in. Yeah. How many days do

38:11

you think he was on set? Fewer than Pew. Pew

38:15

literally looked like she might be shooting her stuff

38:17

in Notting Hill. Like, I, like. 100

38:19

percent. Um, the, and that. But

38:22

in a cool way, but I was just like,

38:24

was, did Pew go to the desert? I

38:26

don't think she did. Well, I don't think Walk-in did either. I

38:29

think that, I think they had a great experience. Yeah. Like,

38:31

how did he fit all these actors? Like, well, he just

38:33

did a day of pickups. Um, did

38:37

you, I think

38:39

that it was a warm laughter, but when, when

38:41

Walk-in, anytime Walk-in talk the audience was just kind

38:43

of laughing. Yeah. I think, I

38:45

mean, our audience is very, very, very psyched for

38:47

him to be there. Yeah. And

38:50

be like, ah, you. Yeah. So,

38:52

Moi D. He's just from Brooklyn. Yeah. I

38:54

think that before moving on, I, I think

38:56

the thing that is really interesting to me about

38:58

this, not just from an artistic perspective, because Jesus

39:00

Christ, this guy could cook and like that,

39:03

that assault on the, the

39:05

sand at, at basically the, the spice harvester where

39:07

they're hiding and then they throw all the fucking

39:09

plates at it. Or are you talking about when

39:11

they're like scooting around when he, when he saved

39:13

her before he gets his, uh, his third of

39:15

his nine names. Um, that's my other note. I

39:18

do want to come to that. Um,

39:21

he, this guy just unders cause

39:23

I, when I was googling like the plot of the book and

39:25

what he cut and what he kept in, like he just does

39:27

have a remarkable sense of how

39:29

to communicate. I think he's, I think

39:31

he, and also I think his relationship to the source

39:33

material seems to be a really healthy one of like,

39:36

I obviously have been dying to make

39:38

this, this is a dream project, but

39:40

it's not so close that

39:42

I have to, I can, I

39:44

can manipulate it the way I need to to make the

39:46

movie I want to make. So there are characters that were

39:49

cut. The Anya Taylor Joy,

39:51

Aaliyah thing is like, uh, it, it,

39:54

she's much more present in the book

39:56

or the movie, even in Lynch's movie,

39:58

that character. character.

40:01

So yeah, I think Denis was like an

40:03

incredible stewardess. I rewatched the David Lynch version

40:05

and I totally forgot that it, like

40:08

he looked at the same text that Denis

40:11

looked at and he was like the most

40:13

important way for this movie to begin after

40:15

Virginia Madsen explains the plot of the entire

40:17

movie is to just have a floating space

40:19

pig barfing

40:22

spice. Yeah. It's

40:24

so wild. That's the melange, right? That's the,

40:26

he's the dude that folds space. He's the

40:28

navigator. Oh, that's right. The killed navigator. Um,

40:31

last note, Chris, like genuinely if

40:33

I was the Hollywood fixer, the only thing I

40:35

was like, didn't he love this? Love the vision,

40:37

love what you've done with the shield. Look different

40:39

this time. It's really cool. Can

40:42

we just talk about names? Because

40:44

Paul has nine names and

40:47

could we, maybe that could be six. Do

40:49

you know what I mean? Like I just feel

40:51

like as a branding, most people know him as

40:53

Paul. Paul. Sure. But they also know him as

40:55

Usul. They know him as Muad'Dib. They

40:58

know him as the, and I had to Google

41:00

this, um, the Kwisatz Haderach, which

41:02

starts to get Yiddish at the end. They

41:04

know him as the, what is, what does Javier call him? Well,

41:08

they call him Mahdi, which is sort of, you know,

41:10

the Monsieur Spade head. That's

41:12

exactly where it comes from. It comes from

41:14

Monsieur Spade season one. What

41:17

does Stilgar call him? He calls him the

41:19

something with an L. Lisa

41:22

and Algolipe. Okay. So. Don't

41:26

you think that's a lot? A lot of

41:29

names. I mean, this kind

41:31

of happens in these. They call him Duke? Or is they,

41:33

how many fucking names did Daenerys have? Mother

41:36

of dragons? And like first of her,

41:38

like Daenerys. Okay, right. But that was like, every time

41:40

they saw her, they would announce them and then they'd

41:42

move on. Yeah. I feel like

41:44

we got factions calling him different things. Actually,

41:47

on a branding perspective, you

41:49

could streamline that. Who

41:52

doesn't like Paul? You're like so close to being

41:54

like, what I need is a Vox explator instead

41:56

of going to see this film. I'd love to

41:58

get an efficient piece. Or is I. the

42:00

Woodstilman thing where it's like I only read

42:02

literary criticism. I can't believe this is my

42:04

role with this. I love to. I know

42:06

I love to do and I'm glad to

42:09

have a healthy debate about it. It's what

42:11

Kirsten Sinema would have wanted. This

42:14

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into iPhone. All you have to do

43:19

is set it up. Just add a card

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in the Wallet app and you're good to go. We

43:25

can talk a little bit about some of the

43:27

stuff we've been watching if you want, or we

43:29

can get right into the mailbag questions. I think

43:31

we should just say that we let's

43:34

just let's tease something. We can talk about

43:36

it more fully later in the week. Yeah,

43:38

okay. So Richard Linklater has a documentary

43:40

on Max right now. Well,

43:43

if I may, he did only part

43:45

of it. Okay. So Max has a

43:48

documentary series called God Save Texas, which

43:50

is based on a really good book that

43:52

I read and enjoyed by

43:55

the great nonfiction writer Lawrence Wright. He

43:57

wrote Going Clear. Tower,

44:00

a long time New Yorker staff writer.

44:02

This is a wonderful book that's basically

44:04

about his chosen home state of

44:06

Texas, both history but also perspective on why

44:09

it remains fascinating and is much more complicated

44:11

than many people might think it is from

44:13

the outside. Because Lawrence

44:15

Wright's such a creative figure, for this stock

44:17

basically, they opened it up

44:20

to other Texas filmmakers to tell

44:22

their versions of what it is, what

44:24

Texas is for them. And you and

44:26

I watched the first episode, which

44:28

is almost feature length stock

44:31

made by Richard Linklater, in collaboration with Lawrence

44:33

Wright. He shows up with him and it's

44:35

about Linklater's hometown of

44:38

Huntsville, Texas, which is also famous

44:40

or infamous for being

44:42

the home of many prisons and where

44:45

Texas executes prisoners on death

44:47

row. Yes. And it's been

44:49

the setting for fictional and

44:51

really the setting for several of

44:54

Linklater's most beloved films and you'll

44:56

see he basically does a tour

44:59

of the town where he talks about days in

45:02

confused and boyhood and everybody wants some. So yeah,

45:04

that part is incredible. But what I loved about

45:06

this first episode, and we can keep it brief

45:08

here, is just it's an

45:10

incredible marriage of the subject matter, which

45:13

is super serious and incredibly

45:15

complex. And

45:17

Linklater at his best, but

45:19

almost pretty, I think regularly and

45:21

routinely has a humanity and an

45:23

empathy that is pretty much going

45:26

extinct, I think. And it's

45:29

just curious. And you

45:31

can see him. He plays a huge part

45:33

in this episode of the documentary series or

45:35

in this particular film where he's on

45:37

camera a lot. He's the narrator. He's driving

45:39

around Huntsville with Lawrence Wright. He's talking about

45:41

his mom. He's talking about he's talking to

45:43

old friends and teammates, some of whom were

45:46

fictionalized in his movies. Some of whom have

45:48

spent time inside of correctional facilities. And it's

45:51

just an incredible pair of

45:55

eyes through which to view the world. And so

45:58

the first one, Hometown Prison, they're three episodes. They're

46:00

all up on your max service hometown prison

46:02

is the link later when we watch that

46:04

there are two subsequent Episodes

46:07

the first price of oil is made by Alex

46:09

Stapleton the third la Frontera is made by Ilana

46:13

Iliana Sosa, so we're gonna check those out to you,

46:15

but put it on your radar. Yeah, I

46:17

would definitely recommend it to literally anyone a

46:19

couple of bits and bobs I Sounds

46:22

like house the dragon is coming in June. I

46:25

didn't know that. Yeah on Paramount Plus uh When

46:28

careful let's when these a

46:30

peacock on so yeah house the dragon

46:32

returning in the summer I think it's

46:35

shaping up to be an interesting like not

46:37

quite as mad cap as The

46:40

past Emmy runs that we've had before where everything

46:42

is trying to sit in under the May 31st

46:44

wire, right? but

46:48

Still a busy late spring early summer boys

46:52

bear HOTD a lot

46:55

of stuff coming out. Yes sugar sugar,

46:57

which we can talk about That's the

46:59

Colin Farrell private detective show on Apple.

47:02

Did you like that trailer? So I feel

47:05

I think I'm out on trailers.

47:07

Yeah, I'm on the fence like on trailers It's the

47:09

thing to do the show I just think that they

47:11

I need to accept the fact that like the

47:14

artistry of like making trailers. Yeah

47:17

has I I

47:20

get fewer and fewer hits from them

47:22

and more It's like this is for

47:24

somebody who needs like literally the entire

47:26

show explained to them before they even

47:28

consider watching it I agree and I

47:30

think that the the sugar trailer It

47:33

just puts I'm just right in the middle

47:35

of it because all I want is a

47:37

modern noir All I want is an LA

47:39

private detective show starring Colin Farrell and I

47:41

love the colors I think the Brazilian director

47:43

Fernando Morell is directed the show I just

47:46

I'm in on the visual language and everything but

47:49

there's there's something I don't fully Cuz

47:52

I can see a robot or something. Well, there's just I

47:54

feel like because this is a modern show sold to Apple

47:56

It's not gonna be okay. Just being that there's gonna be

47:58

like a the end of the pilot you find out

48:00

that, oh, he's escaped from Westworld,

48:03

or not really, but you know what

48:05

I mean? Like some, there's gonna

48:07

be some extra. That was so

48:09

profound all the time, even if it was

48:11

outside of Westworld. Oh no, it got away

48:13

from the park. I just feel like- Like

48:15

that's how hacks ends. I'm scared there's just

48:17

one extra ingredient that might set the flavor

48:19

off of the whole dish, but I'm- Guess

48:22

what, we'll know before, the whole thing

48:24

I'm saying is, I don't think

48:26

they're really doing a lot of series now where it's

48:28

like you have no idea this twist that happens. It's

48:31

pretty much like they have to be like- You

48:33

think they're gonna tell us? No, but I think

48:35

the idea is that Colin Farrell maybe is really

48:37

good at kicking ass and tries to keep that

48:40

inside. I can relate, so

48:42

finally a way to connect with a character.

48:44

I can finally feel seen. Yeah. Sugar's

48:47

cool, we're definitely gonna watch

48:49

that. But yeah,

48:51

it seems like there's gonna be a glut of

48:53

stuff. I noted with interest that the

48:56

first season of House of the Dragon was put up against

48:58

Florida the Rings in August. The first time

49:00

you mean? Yeah. Or

49:02

this time? No, the first season of House of the Dragon that

49:05

came out like two years ago or whatever. It didn't

49:07

come out last year and I never said it did.

49:09

It was up against, it was like sort of- Oh

49:11

yeah, yeah. Perfectly put up against LOTR. And now this

49:15

one is up against the boys pretty much, I would imagine.

49:18

I think, I feel like you were making a point that I

49:20

just glossed over, which was an important one, which is that the

49:22

past few years were used to- No,

49:25

I mean, I hit the end of my

49:27

feed just on meta. I was just scrolling, scrolling and

49:29

then I heard you. You

49:31

got to know how many names does Paul have

49:33

for it? You're like, I already

49:35

know, nine. So I was like, this guy's got some

49:37

really dangerous ideas. I think he gets to follow. Do

49:43

you know how many times I have to check it? Because

49:45

my older daughter's on YouTube a lot now and I'm like,

49:47

oh, what are you watching?

49:49

She's like, oh, someone did like an

49:51

animatic of the first song from

49:53

the musical Six. I'm like, great. And does it

49:55

have an opinion on IVF? She's

49:57

like, not all the internet is like that. I'm like-

50:00

you never know. Because

50:02

I've just always you're told that like they're gonna get

50:04

red pill all the time. Oh, that's what you're worried

50:06

about is just the red pilling. Yeah. To be clear,

50:08

I don't think IVF is a controversial issue. I just

50:10

mean that like, I'm worried you're

50:12

worried that it's gonna get flipped into what you

50:14

think would be normally like pretty

50:17

family friendly. Yeah, like you know, it killed

50:19

Henry the eighth wives in musical fashion, like

50:22

hordes coming over the border. Yeah, right. You know what I mean? Like

50:24

that's what's. Anyway, your point was that

50:26

we got used to the last few years

50:28

with this glut of shows, all

50:30

of which we're trying to hit the Emmy

50:33

window. And while that still exists

50:35

when possible, we are at a year instead where

50:37

people are like, they just got to get the

50:39

shows out because of strike push. So it might

50:41

look a little different. Why don't we get into

50:43

some mailbag questions? I thought you'd never

50:45

do we have it? I don't think we so I mean, this

50:47

is actually a good transition because a healthy

50:50

chunk of the questions that we got, we're

50:52

kind of asking for a little bit of an industry

50:55

check in. I'll try and synthesize some of these. But

50:58

the first one just came from Adam and is like,

51:00

I'd love an industry check. And maybe it needs a

51:02

news peg. Adam, you haven't been listening long enough. Sometimes

51:04

it just doesn't need a news peg. But how are

51:06

people feeling? And I'm directing this towards you, Andy. What

51:09

impact has the continued rise of fast services

51:11

had, etc. Like, I think people are just

51:13

curious whether or not now you guys have

51:16

been back to work for a little while now

51:18

from that perspective, I think, for

51:20

the purposes of this podcast, you're probably the

51:22

best person to speak to like the vibe within

51:24

the industry. Yeah, I mean, Kip also said,

51:26

between COVID delays, strikes and scheduling, it feels

51:28

like the length of time between seasons of non

51:30

broadcast shows are getting longer than ever. You

51:33

know, like what's the returning show that you fast forward

51:35

production of? I was going to say Andorf that but

51:37

we got a lot of questions along with these lines.

51:39

I mean, I think it's, it's tough because like, the

51:42

last time we talked about this, I don't know if I was clear

51:44

enough, because I feel like I may have been I feel

51:47

like may have been inarticulate about this because there

51:49

are a lot of good shows coming out. And we

51:51

are going to have things to talk about. And

51:54

I know we've been in so sometimes, when we

51:56

bemoan the state of things, we're talking behind the

51:58

scenes, or we're talking like, you know, in a

52:00

long time. window of time that like we

52:02

still have a lot that was on the runway and we'll get

52:04

to enjoy them through the next Ten months,

52:06

but then what's gonna happen in 15 20

52:09

months because behind the curtain it is

52:11

Catastrophically bad like this is not me

52:14

spilling personal grievance. This is everyone that I talked

52:16

to at Studios other

52:19

writers whatever like no one

52:21

has experienced things the way

52:23

they are experiencing them right now a

52:26

mix of Instability on

52:29

a corporate level and fear

52:31

on a creative level reduced

52:33

budgets to order things and

52:36

Also a very strange recoil from the effects

52:38

of the strike where this is a lot

52:40

of this is anecdotal but people heard us

52:43

talk about how One

52:45

of the reasons that the WGA went on strike was

52:47

the abuse of a practice of mini rooms Which is

52:49

like a pre green light room, which is like we

52:52

used to say go make a pilot now We'll say get to

52:54

your friends sit in a room. We'll pay you scale for a

52:56

few weeks to do more work ahead of it Those

52:59

can be really productive. I've been in a few of those that have been some

53:01

of the best professional experiences. I've ever

53:03

had They were

53:05

more codified in the New Deal and a result

53:07

of that that I've heard is that they're just

53:09

not happening anymore That like now people

53:11

are saying if you're lucky enough to have a deal

53:14

with studio. They're saying we'll just write more scripts yourself

53:17

Delay it further making give us more to make

53:19

a decision on both so we can get that

53:21

work more cheaply and So

53:23

we have more time to understand who we

53:25

are working for. Yeah in the next three

53:27

to six months And

53:30

also just the continued like algorithmization

53:33

and tech broing

53:35

of the industry where It's

53:38

hard to talk about this because anyone who works

53:40

in this business is almost by nature if

53:42

they're working Consistently are doing very

53:44

well by like American standards But when you think

53:46

about who's making money off of this these things

53:49

how much money they're being made The

53:51

the decisions made by some of the

53:53

more tech oriented companies to just break

53:55

from decades of tradition Which was like

53:57

you made something good for us and did a good job

54:00

you're getting a rich deal to reward

54:02

you for the work you gave and the profit you

54:04

made us. And I'm saying, you know, actually

54:06

we think the IP is more valuable than you

54:08

are. So someone else will do it. Yeah. If

54:11

you were a shareholder, would you applaud that decision? Maybe,

54:14

but I guess I would just say, everybody

54:16

should read Mark Harris' thing in the New York Times. He

54:18

wrote a guest essay called How Bad Can It Get for

54:20

Hollywood? That I think kind of expresses

54:22

a lot of this in a more,

54:25

in a really fantastic

54:27

general way. But

54:31

there was sort of, there was language I was hearing

54:33

from people who were much more senior to me, like

54:35

veteran people, studio people, my older agent,

54:37

all of whom were saying, this is a year

54:39

of uncertainty. I want the idea

54:41

of you having like a kid agent too. Oh

54:43

yeah, like a 30 rock. Like an older agent and then you

54:45

know. Well, in a

54:48

tribute to like my stature in this town, I actually have

54:50

an agent that's three kids standing on each other's shoulder in

54:52

a trench coat. They're at the

54:54

Ivy right now having a pudding cup, saying

54:57

that 24 is a year of transition and

55:01

that this town is built to buy and sell and we'll be back

55:03

to business as usual in 25. And I've heard other,

55:05

like more veteran, like real veteran showrunners saying

55:08

like, yeah, there are these moments like this

55:10

and there have been two or three before.

55:13

But then you read these stories and all of a sudden

55:15

this idea that 25 is back to business has now

55:17

I think been codified. Is everyone

55:19

just off of the text that I

55:21

got from, like, I don't know if

55:23

this is true. I just feel like everyone has heard

55:25

this from someone they trust and now everyone's like. That

55:27

is like being 25. Yeah, great, okay, we're back, are

55:29

we? Yeah. I don't know. There

55:32

were two things that jumped out at me

55:34

from recent felony newsletters, what I'm hearing, which

55:36

you should definitely be subscribed to via Puck

55:39

and Matt obviously does the town podcast for the

55:41

regular podcast and order and two

55:43

things jumped out. One, he talked with Ben Thompson

55:45

recently, I believe on the town. Ben

55:48

does tritectery, he is an incredible

55:50

thinker when it comes to the

55:52

merging of technology with practically everything else.

55:55

Ben talked a lot about Apple and about

55:57

what their, what the fucking point

55:59

is of. them making shows and movies when

56:01

they kind of don't need

56:03

to and they're not actually like making much

56:06

money from them. And Ben

56:08

was like, you know, it's broadly

56:10

part of their services strategy so

56:12

that they're not over-reliant on hardware.

56:14

It allows them to sell people

56:16

things within iPhones as the like

56:18

iPhone purchasing arc flattens out a

56:20

little bit. And he

56:22

was like, look, Vision Pro is coming

56:24

and watching Apple TV in Vision Pro

56:26

is actually a pretty interesting step

56:29

forward and the televisual experience. And

56:32

so I took that piece and then a piece

56:34

of feedback that I believe was in the

56:36

column this last like maybe on Sunday night,

56:39

which was somebody writing in for somebody

56:41

who's in the industry anonymously writing in

56:43

and talking about Dan Lynn replacing Scott Stuber.

56:45

Oh yeah. At Netflix and I think it

56:47

was basically kind of, if

56:50

I'm getting this wrong and it was in something else I apologize,

56:52

I'm just sort of going this off memory. But it was essentially

56:54

about like, you know, Netflix's

56:57

relationship to like quality programming and quality

56:59

films and they were like, you're kind

57:01

of misunderstanding like a

57:04

corporation. They

57:07

don't think about it in terms of like

57:09

quality. They think about it in terms of

57:11

success or not successful. And it's like, its

57:14

qualitative character is sort of besides the point.

57:17

And you can't assign like

57:19

aesthetic values to something that is like so

57:21

purely almost mathematical, essentially. And it's like,

57:23

I don't take it personally either. I mean,

57:25

like it's giving people what they say

57:27

they want. And when you look at the

57:31

whatever version of the Nielsen ratings

57:33

or like the analytics of what

57:35

goes does well on Netflix, it's

57:37

not dark. You know, it's not

57:39

the any of their complicated prestige

57:41

programming that you think it might be. It's the stuff that

57:43

would have been, you know, a network

57:45

procedural five years ago and is now on Netflix.

57:48

So I tell these

57:50

two basically taken from Matt Bellany's

57:53

work anecdotes to say, I

57:55

think the thing that I've noticed the most

57:57

is that like we are essentially talking about

58:00

technology companies. And

58:02

the idea that there would be levels

58:04

of contraction or expansion, but that ultimately

58:06

creative executives would sort of have the

58:08

quote unquote town's best interest at heart

58:10

and are thinking about continuing a legacy

58:12

that goes back 100 years and is

58:14

basically the bedrock of the California economy

58:17

to say nothing of American cultural soft

58:19

power and all this stuff. It's not

58:21

really, that's not really happening anymore. Yeah.

58:24

I think that's incredibly depressing, very

58:27

well said. And sadly, likely true.

58:29

It's about making content for a

58:31

vision pro, or continuing to like

58:34

stop churn and stop password sharing or

58:37

whatever it is. I mean, the greatest

58:39

artists of our time and as well

58:41

as the greatest executives, because there are

58:44

incredibly creative, committed, brave executives. What

58:47

makes them great is not

58:49

always their highs. It's the chances

58:51

they took on what might be

58:54

uncharitably considered their lows. And if you

58:56

look at that on an

58:58

efficiency document in Palo

59:00

Alto, that's an inefficiency that are a

59:02

redundancy. Like that's not worth

59:05

it. So that is

59:07

trickling down. There's no question about

59:09

that. Now, still good things can be

59:12

made. And there are passionate people who are

59:14

convincing their bosses that, you know, that actually

59:16

what we get out of this might not

59:18

be quantifiable in a familiar way, but is

59:20

adding value, blah, blah, blah. We

59:22

just spent however long we spent

59:24

talking about Dune, which is absolutely

59:27

a triumph of artistic expression and

59:29

risk taking, and also

59:31

probably meets the bottom

59:34

line of the larger company. So this

59:37

isn't all Dune saying, but I think that your point

59:39

is right. And I think one of the reasons why

59:41

I recommend the Mark Harris piece is because it's sort

59:43

of the spirit of it is right, which is to

59:45

say, instead of saying, are we ever going to get

59:47

back to work back to the old way? Look

59:50

at it. And I think he's quite optimistic in

59:52

a way that I really wish that I

59:54

could share. Look at it the way people looked

59:56

at American movie industry in the sixties and seventies

59:58

and was like, well, if there's what's going

1:00:00

on here? Let's just do this instead. And

1:00:03

instead of following and pining and looking backwards, grab

1:00:05

the reins and try to take it in a

1:00:07

different direction. Yeah. There's a couple of other interesting,

1:00:09

more granular questions about the state of the industry.

1:00:12

For instance, I thought this one from Aaron, just

1:00:15

because it's also Shogun related was kind of

1:00:17

interesting. Do you think that the belt tightening

1:00:19

going on will reduce the number of expensive

1:00:21

limited series we have been inundated with during

1:00:23

the streaming big spending phase, somewhat related with

1:00:26

great numbers for Shogun, make them more likely

1:00:28

to try and continue that show in a

1:00:30

second season? Now, I have not watched

1:00:32

ahead on Shogun. So I don't know how

1:00:35

Shogun ends, but Shogun is working from clearly

1:00:38

established source material. And source material

1:00:40

based on history. Yes. So I

1:00:42

think the gambit was we are

1:00:44

adapting the James Quaville novel and

1:00:46

somewhat nodding to the miniseries, right?

1:00:49

So I don't think they

1:00:51

would, I don't know what

1:00:53

Shogun would have to be to make

1:00:55

them do more Shogun necessarily. I think

1:00:57

that they're trying to tell a very

1:00:59

finite story here. But it's relevant to

1:01:01

the previous question, which is to say

1:01:03

that FX has a deserved reputation for

1:01:05

being creative executives and being good at

1:01:07

both halves of that statement, that sentence.

1:01:10

I think in a perfect world for them, they

1:01:13

would take the lessons of Shogun success. And again, we

1:01:15

don't actually have hard data as to like how successful

1:01:17

it is or what even that means in 2024. But

1:01:20

anecdotally, everybody we know loves it. Yeah, it must

1:01:23

be. No, but honestly, anecdotally, everybody we know does

1:01:25

love it. It's true. And I think that's significant.

1:01:27

And I think that was significant to the

1:01:30

bright boys and girls at FX. I

1:01:32

think that their preferred method of processing

1:01:35

that data would be, OK,

1:01:38

we've connected with something. Our taste has

1:01:40

connected with what the audience wants. And

1:01:42

this can lead us forward as opposed

1:01:44

to just spiraling and staying here. Does

1:01:47

this mean more historical epics? Maybe.

1:01:49

Does this mean more massively invested

1:01:51

in big ticket event

1:01:53

series? Yes. But

1:01:55

what do I know? I mean, FX is doing

1:01:58

its best to stay afloat artistically. subsidiary

1:02:00

of the Walt Disney Company. And if

1:02:02

there is a spin-off

1:02:04

show about the ways of

1:02:07

the samurai warrior post-English whatever,

1:02:09

I'm sure they're going to at least

1:02:12

start to walk down it. They're going to start

1:02:14

to explore it. So FX was the first thing

1:02:16

that I thought of with this next question, which

1:02:18

was from Tracy. What

1:02:20

do you think of as a must-watch show that came out

1:02:23

between 2010 and 2020, which

1:02:25

is roughly the amount of time we've been podcasting

1:02:27

about television, that given the

1:02:29

current development landscape you don't think would

1:02:31

get made now? I had

1:02:33

a quick answer for this, some of which originated

1:02:35

from FX. And I

1:02:38

could be wrong. This was actually just my

1:02:40

snap reaction. I do wonder whether or not

1:02:42

we're going to see any more like It's

1:02:45

Always Sunny in Philadelphia, Workaholics,

1:02:48

comedy central stuff like Detroiters and

1:02:51

Broad City, Max. I think South

1:02:53

Side was maybe the last of this kind of show, which

1:02:56

is a sitcom,

1:02:58

a cable sitcom or a streaming sitcom that

1:03:00

is pure vibes and doesn't have like a

1:03:03

hook or a narrative.

1:03:05

Like even Hacks has like

1:03:08

will they or won't they like energy

1:03:11

to it of, you know, is this

1:03:14

relationship going to keep going with this

1:03:16

writer and this comedian. And

1:03:18

the shows that I just listed

1:03:20

are open-ended, more

1:03:22

or less episodic, pure

1:03:26

vibes, kinds of

1:03:28

shows, which I fucking love. Like it's

1:03:30

always so much fun. But I almost

1:03:33

would go as far as a curve is

1:03:35

like this, you know, like it's curve is

1:03:38

perhaps the apex of this. But I

1:03:40

do feel like more and more now, like

1:03:43

shows, even comedies seem to need to

1:03:45

have like a very durable

1:03:49

hook beyond just like people

1:03:51

being funny hanging out. But what's a successful

1:03:53

comedy right now? What's

1:03:55

a successful comedy? Is it the bear, the Emmy winner

1:03:57

for best comedy? So I think your point

1:03:59

is very well made and I

1:04:02

think you're right. I also don't think

1:04:04

Broad City, Detroiters, Southside, or

1:04:06

Workaholics were especially big hits. I mean,

1:04:09

Sunny I think has obviously become this

1:04:11

behemoth and is essentially like the live

1:04:13

action Simpsons of our second

1:04:15

half of our lives here, but you know. I love

1:04:17

the examples that you brought up. I would bring them

1:04:19

up as well, but from a different perspective, which is

1:04:22

to say that one of the absolute biggest boneheaded

1:04:26

blunders of the last decade

1:04:29

is certain companies, particularly Paramount's

1:04:31

complete abdication of its successful

1:04:33

cable channels and brands. MTV

1:04:37

and Comedy Central meant

1:04:40

something to our generation and

1:04:42

made good content and good quality

1:04:45

and we understood what it

1:04:47

was and in a crowded landscape when

1:04:49

messiahs have nine names, that's

1:04:51

not a small thing. You know what

1:04:53

I mean? The fact

1:04:55

that MTV is just ridiculousness for 24 hours and

1:04:58

I don't even mean that as a joke. That's

1:05:00

all they air is a crime, but

1:05:03

one of the things that was a success story,

1:05:05

truly I think it was a success story in

1:05:07

the last 15 years was when

1:05:09

Kent Altman was running Comedy Central and he

1:05:11

was running it with an eye

1:05:13

on market inefficiencies the same way that John

1:05:15

Landgraf has run FX and

1:05:18

by that I mean he was

1:05:20

scouting, rabidly scouting the next generation

1:05:22

of very, very funny people who

1:05:24

might have something to say and

1:05:27

might not cost so much and could build an audience

1:05:29

as opposed to bring an audience and that's how you

1:05:31

get Key and Peel, that's how you get Crawl

1:05:33

Show, that's how you get Amy Schumer, that's how you get

1:05:35

Detroiters, everything, Broad City, everything that

1:05:38

you're mentioning. All of those are

1:05:40

successes. All of those were successes when they were

1:05:42

on the air and they were long tail successes

1:05:44

for reruns and YouTube clips and streaming. And then

1:05:46

obviously. And influential to another generation of comic writers.

1:05:48

And for the careers of the characters.

1:05:50

We didn't suddenly stop producing funny people in

1:05:52

2018 or

1:05:54

whatever when Comedy Central stopped doing this.

1:05:56

It just became not a priority of

1:05:58

the company. And. So now we're

1:06:00

in this place where again, I think a

1:06:02

smart or nimble player in this world might

1:06:05

say hey We can't compete Gun

1:06:08

for gun with Apple and Netflix But we can

1:06:10

be smarter and we can be more creative and

1:06:12

we can be more in touch with the creative

1:06:14

community or the comedic community And

1:06:16

give them a chance to make something but

1:06:19

everyone seems to be in this zero-sum arms race Yeah,

1:06:21

I mean, I even think gemstones is a good example

1:06:23

of this where I I Love

1:06:26

gemstones and it is very funny But

1:06:28

gemstones is equally a family drama and

1:06:30

also has like elements of action. Oh,

1:06:33

yeah So like it's it

1:06:35

I almost think it's very educational to look at

1:06:37

something like gemstones There's clearly successfully for for if

1:06:39

you know and a lot of that has to

1:06:42

do with price point and stuff as well as

1:06:44

anything but is like it's not Just

1:06:47

those guys like jerking around Like

1:06:50

pretending to be like they take it pretty

1:06:52

seriously for a comedy and the filmmaking Yeah,

1:06:54

for sure. Yeah, but but I I am

1:06:56

stuck on this idea that like Tim

1:06:59

Robinson getting the the sinecure to do I think

1:07:01

you should leave just somewhere in a you know

1:07:03

corner an unattended to corner of Netflix is silly

1:07:05

when there should be a whole ecosystem of Brilliant

1:07:09

weirdos making something but

1:07:11

I don't know if paramount global But I don't even

1:07:14

know if I think you should leave if it doesn't

1:07:17

If it's not the engine of five of

1:07:19

the most used memes in the last ten

1:07:21

years if that stays like I think it's

1:07:23

social Like applications

1:07:26

are almost more valuable than like the views it gets.

1:07:28

This is what I mean I just I think that

1:07:31

what is what are the goals? I think that

1:07:33

I don't know and so if the obviously not

1:07:35

just like five characters who are really funny who

1:07:37

hang out a lot Right, but also 15 years

1:07:39

ago The goal of a network would be like

1:07:41

I we want to be in business with creative

1:07:43

good people that can grow and grab an audience

1:07:45

And give us an identity And

1:07:47

that that community and our goodwill with them will

1:07:49

open up doors for other people to be in

1:07:52

business with like AMC being like hey Geniuses you've

1:07:54

got scripts that HBO won't make will make them

1:07:56

Yeah, and they did and it changed everything for

1:07:58

them as well as the people in

1:08:00

those shows. Paramount Global's current strategy

1:08:02

seems to be like, let's

1:08:05

pour all our money into big, big star

1:08:07

things so someone will buy us. And

1:08:10

so being like, let's go

1:08:12

down to the Elysian theater, you know, in Frogtown

1:08:14

and be like, and scout the three funniest people.

1:08:16

I don't

1:08:18

really see how that translates to the, the

1:08:20

services. You see Shari Redstone at the May

1:08:22

Martin show. You know what I

1:08:25

mean? Like, again, I'm not saying

1:08:27

that that pipeline was like one of our most

1:08:29

natural and precious resources. Yeah, I know what you

1:08:31

mean. But what does that, what does that have

1:08:33

to say to these companies goals

1:08:35

anymore? That's out of, out of

1:08:37

whack. The FX piece that I was

1:08:39

sort of the FX piece and Sonny

1:08:41

was really what I was thinking of.

1:08:44

But also wonder about

1:08:47

the sort of viability of

1:08:49

stuff like some

1:08:51

sort of anarchy, Americans,

1:08:53

the original conception of

1:08:55

justified shows that don't

1:08:57

necessarily have a screaming train coming down

1:09:00

the tracks. That is the end point

1:09:02

and is like the like, no, these

1:09:04

are valuable. Do you think they

1:09:06

are? So we had so many questions about multi

1:09:08

season hit me. People

1:09:11

only want hospital shows and cop shows. Where

1:09:14

the TV industry is Jack Donaghy in

1:09:17

the first season of 30 Rock. That

1:09:19

they they're the best idea is to make it

1:09:21

2007 again. I noted with

1:09:24

interest that justine matado is doing a

1:09:26

Netflix hospital show for Carlton Hughes. This

1:09:28

is huge. Yes, you're correctly pointed this

1:09:30

out. Carlton Hughes is making Netflix's

1:09:32

great at me. Is it Netflix? Yeah,

1:09:34

it's Netflix. Their first kind of like,

1:09:36

hey, we're just making Grey's Anatomy. And

1:09:39

that's what everybody wants that big net.

1:09:41

And we're not I'm not just saying

1:09:43

like peacock. I'm saying FX

1:09:45

wants this. I'm saying HBO wants their version

1:09:47

of this. We're bringing it back,

1:09:50

baby. People just want TV to be TV. And

1:09:52

I like TV. I think that's fine. But

1:09:55

yeah, that that's the

1:09:59

the example you used are a little more

1:10:01

complicated because they weren't just I mean

1:10:03

the Americans came out of a time when and we

1:10:06

were still interested in ongoing series and getting people

1:10:08

to sign seven season contracts at the beginning

1:10:10

but it was defiantly being like no no but

1:10:12

we are not a cops and robbers show yeah

1:10:15

the show about the robbers right and why

1:10:17

they're married to each other that's

1:10:19

a little bit different why don't we put a pin

1:10:21

in it there because a lot of the rest of

1:10:23

the questions are a little bit more fun they're a

1:10:26

little bit more scattered across our tastes and personal

1:10:29

lives uh are you gonna ask the one

1:10:31

about which one of us would win in a race you

1:10:35

you cowards ask that question I think you're better

1:10:37

over distance but I don't know I you win

1:10:39

that's the beauty of yeah I think in a

1:10:41

40 I might beat you you

1:10:44

would be yeah but you could run

1:10:46

then for another five in your your

1:10:48

heart would explode with little nicotine coming

1:10:50

out of your ears your understanding of

1:10:52

zen pouches I don't know what it

1:10:54

is it's like you like a teabag

1:10:56

um thanks to Kai

1:10:58

McMullen for producing us today we're gonna be

1:11:00

back in just 48 hours where we will

1:11:02

be recording about Shogun episode three have a

1:11:04

lot more questions to answer from our mailbag

1:11:06

and uh maybe we'll talk a little bit

1:11:08

of like just where AG

1:11:10

is on the Oscar race because that's coming up

1:11:12

this weekend too let's make this the number one

1:11:15

podcast and we can talk to you guys soon